Innkeepers lobby for same-sex marriage

I'm at a loss for words.

Funny how the representative from a religion that once required monetary compensation for the forgiveness of sins is stating that the economy of the state should not be a factor in legislation but his religious values should. Love it.

huh?

How much did these studies cost?

I already told you this months agofor free.

WILL ANYBODY EVER START TO LISTEN TO ME?

Mainelyme

I just sent this article to the Editor of the New York Times

New Yorkers should be able to get married in New York and honeymoon in Maine.

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

New York New York

If it will make the Bible Bangers feel any better then they can call the fee for a same sex marriage license a sin tax!

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

New York, New York

Another benefit to allowing marriage equality in Maine is the boost to both the real estate sector with more single sex couples moving or purchasing houses and property in the state and then having the property tax dollars from those real estate sales go to funding public school education. Lots of same sex couples do not have children and so their tax dollars will go directly to educating Maine's children without further burdens of addiing their own children to the system .

Why does ANYONE want to get married anyway?

Yes the same can be said as a sin tax for the adam and eve type marriages that are supposedly the 'right kind if marriage', who's spouse is staying at these places with their girl friends or boy friends though they are married, like Presidents.

Ah yes marriages that of the a&e type that now end in divorce over 50% of the time now and with father or mother less kids in most cases too stay many times too.

All another form if 'sin'.

Gee, I guess whether your gay or not, we are all just human beings when it comes done to the 'bare' truth?

why would allowing all taxpaying American citizens to have the same right to marry the consenting adult of their choice make one sick?

makesnosenseatall

You've never eaten at the Y?

Mainelyme

Shhhhh!

Now that it looks like Maine's on the verge of approving same sex marriage is it safe to say I like girls?

Mainelyme

The homo's are in control......so bend over and take it like a man

bobsmith

Don't you just wish!

Mainelyme

I like the idea of bringing more money into the state. Let's now look at leagalizing prostituion and cocaine and marijuana etc.........what's next ?

Buy all your insurance at the West Agency

The fat little jealous queer autistic drunk needs the money

Perley J. Thibodeau

New York, New York

DANFORTH E. WEST. OF WEST BROADWAY=BANGOR MAINE

HIS DRUNKEN MAMA AND HIS DRUNKEN PAPA TOLD HIM HE'S GOT MONEY HE'S BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE!

HE STINKS MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE!

Perley J. Thibodeau

Poor Danforth E. West of the West Insurance Agency and West Broadway in Bangor, Miaine.

"Old Bangor.'

"CaptainAndy"

Oh, God. Will my sexual attractive never end?

Another jelous vicious spurned would be lover!

Perley J. Thibodeau

New York, New York

That's sexual attractiveness.

As Hedy LaMarr the actress said, "Beauty is a wicked mistress.

Ain't it, Danny boy?

Perley J. Thibodeau

New York, New York.

caeser_of_penobscot

Tell it to your local priest

I can't help you out!

Perley J. Thibodeau

Danforth E. West

Another rejected would be romantic suitor who thinks his money can buy him anybody he wants!

Perley J. Thibodeau

New York, New York

As a rental property owner whose bookings are down by 35% this year already, I would welcome the potential business of renting to honeymooners from out of state. Just three more rental weeks would put me back to normal and would help to pay the mortgage.

As a gay man with a boyfriend of 10 years, I would get married locally and use my local mid-coast Maine businesses for catering, flowers, reception, etc. I am sure that our local businesses would welcome the extra money.

So it is all about money now?

Boycott these places that want the 'mos to marry.

MillinocketRocket

Yes, 4Him2.

Mainelyme

It's too bad that there are self loathing Homosexuals who destroy everything for themselves and everybody else.

But, hell there are self loathing Heterosexuals who do the same thing.

Mainelyme

If this push for gay "marriage" in Maine goes through, it will scare away more people than it would draw. Just look at what has happened to P'Town on Cape Cod. It has become a haven for gays but normal people avoid that area like the plague.

Thanks Mr. Devitt, will be sending you many new customers as we get request every day from same sex couples.

Stopped in at P-Town MA. last year. Took a few minutes to catch on what was going on there. Looked like a mini San Francisco.

This bill is not about gay marriage, but about marriage equality for all Mainers. Its about allowing two consenting adults who choose to be together to make a legal, binding, state-sanctioned union together. Its about normal people with normal lives and normal jobs being able to have equal choices as United States taxpaying citizens. We are all equal under the law according to the 14th amendment of the United States Consitution and as such should be afforded the right to marry the consenting adult of our choosing.

The fact that allowing the bill to go through would be a boon for Maine businesses is a bonus. This bill would have the potential to put cash in the hands of small business owners across the state of Maine.

What do you mean "normal" people. Geez! This is supposed to be a free country. I'm not gay, but I have some gay friends. Leave them be, they're just trying to live their lives like the rest of us.

SteveyDee

You really are into the gay life, aren't you?

Mainelyme

seththayer: I agree. It's about equal rights period. If Maine makes money off of it it's only because other states are dragging their feet on the issue. The pornographic remarks are really out of place and off topic. "GAY marriage" can't possibly effect "the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman". Marriage is part of life for most people and it's what you make of it. To deny people the life that most people enjoy, because of who they love is discrimination. To paraphrase: They're here, they're queer and they ain't going away. So get over it if you don't like it. Either embrace your fellow humans as humans or realize it's just your own bigotry not allowing you to.

Heterosexual, married and not threatened.

I'm a lesbian trapped in a mans body.

Yea, the New York Times is going to put that in the first page of Times...,, Joker

Thought for the day civility or not? If I am the man God made me to be, then I would be loving my wife so the world would see. That we’re still together as woman & man, that’s because it’s according to God’s Holy plan. We would spend time with our kids teaching them about, the things of life that matter the most. We would worship, pray, give thanks and be glad, oh without God how pitiful, how sad. My neighbor would know that if trouble does show, they can always call on me and over I will go. My hometown would matter enough, not just to sit back but involve myself in community stuff, to help improve the life of another, what else could be of a higher priority then my fellow brother. I would go to my work, my employer is glad, my time spent for him doing what he does ask. My taxes I pay maybe not always glad, but I am an AMERICAN and forever PROUD of that. My President is new, the problems of old. Let’s give him a chance, so onward we can go. We debate history, rights, positions, policies and views, but what are we doing, me and you? We are Judge and the Jury, always guilty never not, throw them in jail and let them rot. The homeless, the gays, the Jews and the nays, the Native Americans and peoples of color do we continue to slay. Our words only hurt for the future we strive, start being more civil or America will die. The future of our children and grandchildren for sure, rest on our laurels, achievements and so much more. If we sit back and only blame those in charge, then no one to blame but the guilty, you and I.

It's hard to believe, but the comments on this article have actually reached a new low in terms of their level of juvenile stupidity. Honestly reading what many of you have written reminds me of the discussions that 9th grade boys have in study hall between shop classes. I'm not sure why the BDN prints this junk because it just detracts from the value of the paper itself. I hope these comments don't reflect the IQ of the majority of this papers readers.

Let's go over this again: The ultimate goal of this bill is to provide all American citizens with the same rights to marry the consenting adult of their choosing.

If you do not agree, see the financial possibilites as as bonus. I have read a lot of criticisms of the Baldacci administration's failure to bring dollars into the State of Maine. But, when a bill is introduced that brings the potential of $60-100,000,000 to the state over the next three years without polluting or changing the landscape or adding sneaky taxes to our already burdened tax system, the whining increases.

This bill could change the course of my life. For most of you, it will have no affect whatsoever. For those of you with small tourist based businesses, this bill could bring you much needed business.

For once, our legislators might actually be thinking outside the box to provide Mainers with a bit of financial help. Maine is being forward thinking with this bill. Passing the bill would give the state great publicity. Even having picketers come to the state would bring in cash....

SteveyDee

You'd better change your orientation then

Lesbians aren't attracted to men!

Mainelyme

drc480

Don't ask me how it got by the censors but, it did!

Perley J. Thibodeau

New York, New York

the good book says adam and eve not adam and steve....

drc480

As a matter of fact I have them looking into it!

Mainelyme

Eastport039

What good book is that, "Lady Chatterley"s Lover?

Or, "The Happy Hooker?"

Mainelyme

Does the bible actually say that Eastport039?

White I support your right to freedom of Religion, this issue has nothing to do with religion. Marriage is a state-sanctioned union between two human beings. Relgion only enters into marriage at the behest of those who believe in some form of god and want their particular Diety in their wedding ceremony.

You must realize by now that everyone has a different interpretation of their god and his outlook towards human life. Some believe their god is a vengeful god, some people belive their god is a peaceful god. Some people do not believe at all.

Please keep religion out of a general discussion of marriage. Marriage is a state sanctioned institution.

It is encouraging to see that business owners are giving the same gender marriage bill their support and a little added momentum. It is appalling to read some of the crass, vulgar, commentary posted here. This bill has nothing to do with sex acts or bare bodies and everything to do with equitable treatment under the law.

They just want to get married, so they can file Married filing Joint and get more income tax back and qualify for food stamps and welfare.

This makes perfect sense! The gay community love to stay at Inns. His clientele is NOT rednecks who think gays who get married apply for welfare and foodstamps. I know plenty of straight WHITE folks who are not married with children who do not work and get welfare and food stamps. Lets not make ridiculous assumptions that are not true.

Let them have the Inns and B&Bs. I personally gave up on staying in those places years ago because every time the wife and I did, there always seemed to be a same sex couple either staying there or owning the place. I'll spend my money where I feel comfortable.

Has anyone read that Bob Barr, the author of DOMA is now wanting it repealed because it steps on states' rights? Here's a quote: "Even more so now than in 1996, I believe we need to reduce federal power over the lives of the citizenry and over the prerogatives of the states. It truly is time to get the federal government out of the marriage business. In law and policy, such decisions should be left to the people themselves."

Treating HIV and AIDS is very expensive. Thousands and thousands of dollars per year. Prevent sexually transmitted diseases by living a healthy life style. You can live a long time with aids and the cost of treating the disease is very expensive. Just as those who smoke or have a health issue that forces them to pay more for health insurance so should those who live the homosexual life style.

Food Stamps and Welfare? Please... I am really disheartened by the dialouge here. What are you threatened by? Two people that love eachother and want only security for their family? I am quite sure there are much more threatening boogie men for you to get up in arms about. Listen to Limbaugh today, he will give you something else to hate. Leave loving families alone!

Elizabethann: What? your post has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. If you are a woman and more prone to breast cancer, should you pay more for health insurance? Childhood obesity is one of the number one health threats to Mainers right now. Do you have children? If so, do you think you should be forced topay more than your already burdensome share of health care costs?

Do you see the fault in your argument?

Hate speech is speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action - unfortunately it is condoned in most cases in the US.

Wheres Anne when you need her? Who is this guy?

Tell you one thing....the posts here are disgusting. If this is a glimpse of conversation within the homosexual life then we should do what we can to stop the further agenda of that lifestyle. That should not be around our families and our children . This is totally disgusting and if you don't find it offensive that you have real issues.

I say let them rant on and on and on. The speech in this comment section will only serve to show the general public who might read these comments that the rants against marriage equality are mostly posted by unintelligent, intolerant, and illiterate people who only make a stronger case for equal treatment under the laws.

If we stop ranting back and simply discuss the issue, it will only serve to help.

I have to ask again: What is wrong with a bill that will actually create jobs and bring much needed money into this state? Isn't that what a government body is supposed to do? Why be threatened by this?

RE; 07:50 am posting...So much for the thought / theme of the day....Civility?? I new it was too much to ask of you all...

Steveydee, I'm still here. What guy?

Seththayer and jersk9, I've been with my spouse for over twenty years. Our marriage is ours alone, and it is what "we" make it. We were married in a church and have honored our vows (well, for the most part. I have to whack him with a frying pan every now and then, jk;) and if my gay or lesbian neighbors wish to marry it will not affect "my" marriage one way or the other. Nor will allowing homosexuals to participate in marriage degrade the "institution" of marriage itself, so I am in complete agreement with both of you.

Those who oppose this are discriminatng against others fundamental rights of life, liberty, and happiness. The Constitution should NEVER be used to take rights away from people as religious beliefs should NEVER be integrated with the constitution.

Those of you who are threatened by same sex civil unions should worry about your own marriage, not your neighbors!!!

Elizabeth, HIV is also prevalent amoung the straight community as well. STDs are not limited to just the homosexual community.

Of topic, but Richard28 (aka Richard37) didnt you lose your last username for leaving juvenile derogatory remarks? Please keep on, because I'm sure after enough people flag and report your comments you and the others will also have your IP addys banned.

I dont approve of censorship, but when someone uses a forum for the sole purpose of posting disgusting disrespectful posts it certainly is nessessary.

Hopefully everyone reading will report the the filth written above.

Elizabethann I think if you read back through the posts you'll see that most of the remarks are being made outside of the homosexual community!

Dennis Damon, Why don't you get back to the work of helping the average people of Hancock County. Help the fisherman, aren't you one. Don't take it in the stern. Pay your property taxes. Stop being the blow heart that is doing all this to because your daughter can't marry. It makes me sick to think that you are causing all fuss. All I can say re-election.

caeser_of_penobscot , he looks like the dirty Lew. The King???? I figured you would of caught that.

Thanks PaleShadows. I'm sure a lot of people have reported it. I wish the BDN could respond more quickly.

Seth, insurance companies are doing it already. Some people with pre-existing conditions have a hard time getting health insurance. If it's about money, the homosexual life style is costly in more ways than one.

Steveydee, well of course I did! There's not much we can do about it except try to ignore him and hope he goes away. I've said before that if he keeps it up they will have to make all of us use a credit card to register here. That's the only way to prevent people from posting under multiple usernames.

I agree about the filth needed to be reported, however, some of it reflects the prejudices and prejudicial beliefs of some of our posters. Is it better for the readers to not read the hateful comments or should they be able to see what some people truly believe?

Elizabethann: Can you tell me exactly what the homosexual lifestyle to which you keep referring? I live in a small town, have my own small business, pay my mortgage, feed my dogs at night, like to cook for friends, and read a lot. That would be my life. What's this lifestyle to which you keep referring?

Donneybrook: Are you actually reading this article? This bill will bring between 60 and 100 million dollars to the average people of our state. Lobsternem and fishermen will benefit when a few more wedding receptions are booked in the state that call for a lobster bake, or oyster bar. Why can't you see that this bill is one of the best small ways to directly help the average people of the state of Maine???

And again....same sex couples who do not have children but own homes in the state actually pay for your children's public school education through their property taxes. I own three properties in Maine and 75% of my prop taxes go to fund public education in my town.

Hi lydenm, I think it's better that the offending comments be reported and taken off because they are disingenuous and are probably being posted by the same person under multiple usernames, in which case they don't represent anything at all. Probably the best thing to do is to try to ignore it because he thrives on negative attention. Don't feed the trolls!

Maybe Elizabethann is re-reading the posts as I suggested. Most of the derogatory comments are from heterosexual posters.

Actually Elizabethann, Anthem BlueCross is required by law to insure anyone who pays the premium. Preexisting conditions are only uninsurable for a year and then the health care company is required to insure one for that condition.

The health care coverage is fairly inexpensive at $166 a month.

And again, tell me what exactly is this homosexual lifestyle of which you speak that is seemingly so expensive? I, for one, live quite a frugal existence here in Maine with my partner and our dogs.

I have a question.... a serious one

How is it intelligent, nay, biologically that a man and a man have sex and a woman and a woman have sex? I'm agnostic as they come, and I just can't get it. A man and man cannot make a baby, nor a woman and a woman. To say that "same sex relationships" are "intelligent" is to say that "ducks should wear hats" because that's intelligent as well. Or that geese should ride horses and man should be subordinate to the Dolphin.

How is it intelligent that the homosexual-agenda is going against what is biologically correct? Is it lust? Molestation as a child? Perversion? Who knows.

But its not intelligent in my belief that 2 people of the same sex think they are "normal" and were "born that way". From a biological and a scientific standpoint I must say that they are either mentally deficient or suffered some type of abuse. This behavior is not natural, and it never will be as long as a man cannot get another man pregnant or a woman get a woman pregnant - without the useage of science.

Thats an intelligent argument and I welcome your constructive criticism.

Harvey G. Malcom

Grange Road

Bangor, ME

hellianinbangor@yahoo.com

Dontdodo, Richard28, Caesar_of_penobscot, and the rest of you homophobic males leaving the offensive homosexual remarks, should really read the study conducted by the APA.

Psychoanalytic theory holds true that homophobia - the fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort and aversion that some heterosexual people hold for gay individuals - is the result of repressed homosexual urges that the person is either unaware or denies. A study provides empirical evidence that is consistent with that theory.

Non-homophobic men are very secure in their sexuality. They love woman and they do not feel threatened by homosexuals in the least.

Researchers at the University of Georgia conducted an experiment involving 35 homophobic men (that would be you caesar, richard and dontdodo) and 29 NON-homophobic men. All the participants selected for the study described themselves as exclusively heterosexual both in terms of sexual arousal and experience.

Each participant was exposed to sexually explicit erotic materials consisting of heterosexual and male homosexual videotapes. Their degree of sexual arousal was measured by penile plethysmography, which precisely measures and records male erections.

Men in both groups were aroused by about the same degree by a video depicting heterosexual sexual behavior. The only significant difference in degree of arousal between the two groups occurred when they viewed a video depicting male homosexual sex: "The homophobic men showed a significant INCREASE in penile circumference to the male homosexual video, but the non-homophobic men did not.

So have at it boys. They more you write, the more obvious your true intentions become. BTW, I believe the BDN has a classified section. Maybe you could hook up with other homophobes and live out your "not so hidden" fantasies.

I ask you ceasar, in following your thought process how is it intelligent, biologically that men and women who are unable to have children or those who marry later life, or those men and women who choose not to have children have sex?

Why have you posted this a second time caesar/Harvey?

seththayer,

You've patience for this far more than I, and I commend you. Keep up the good fight.

Good luck on keeping religious types from spouting off about the bible, though. Even though it's been proven over and over and over and over that our civil law has nothing whatsoever to do with their religion, they'll always jump in with "abomination" this and "damnation" that... kind of sad really.

It will happen. It's only a matter of time. At both the state and federal level, this will happen. Folks will get used to it like they did with all the other changes our civil law has undergone over the centuries we've been living on this patch of rock.

It will happen.

lyndenm,

Bob Barr is from my home state, and has changed radically from a far-right nutjob to a free thinking libertarian. Too bad he didn't make the ballot in Maine.

Elizabethann,

AIDS is not exclusive to the homosexual community. Straight folk die from it every day who have never had a homosexual relationship in their life. Oh, and if the juvenile discussions offend you DON'T READ IT.

Sorry I guess they have deleted some posts.

I have a question.... a serious one

How is it intelligent, nay, biologically that a man and a man have sex and a woman and a woman have sex? I'm agnostic as they come, and I just can't get it. A man and man cannot make a baby, nor a woman and a woman. To say that "same sex relationships" are "intelligent" is to say that "ducks should wear hats" because that's intelligent as well. Or that geese should ride horses and man should be subordinate to the Dolphin.

How is it intelligent that the homosexual-agenda is going against what is biologically correct? Is it lust? Molestation as a child? Perversion? Who knows.

But its not intelligent in my belief that 2 people of the same sex think they are "normal" and were "born that way". From a biological and a scientific standpoint I must say that they are either mentally deficient or suffered some type of abuse. This behavior is not natural, and it never will be as long as a man cannot get another man pregnant or a woman get a woman pregnant - without the useage of science.

Thats an intelligent argument and I welcome your constructive criticism.

Harvey G. Malcom

Grange Road

Bangor, ME

hellianinbangor@yahoo.com

Dear Harvey:

As I have often said, I can procreate just fine, thank you very much, but I choose not to.

I am quite normal, in a crazy, I live in a state that has winter 9 months out of the year, kind of way. I have a college degree, I have a master's degree, I have written several books in my field of choice, and I am a struggling small business owner who has been affected quite a bit by this economic downturn.

10 years ago, I met someone who made my heart sing with joy. We are best friends and busines partners We live and work out of our house together here and are together 24/ 7. When we want to get out of the house , we usually do it together. We hike our dogs in the woods, have a terrific group of friends who like to get together and laugh and drink wine and cook together. We don't always agree and sometimes shout and pout. But we make up and move on with our life together. Quite simply we love each other with all our hearts. Bayond that is no one's business. I assume you and your spouse have a private life, but I never want to know about it...so please, don't ask about mine.

There was no history of abuse in either of our families. And it angers me that many people have that notion about same sex relationships. I have always been gay as has my partner.

But please, remember this: Why I am gay is not the issue, nor is it of anyone's concern. I am already here and am not going away. I am a human being first and foremost and as a human being and as an American citizen, I belive that I have the right to marry the consenting adult of my choosing.

Also remember this:

Religion is a choice. Are you religious, why is that do you think? Was there religion in your background? These are silly questions, because the fact remains that here and now, you are a religious person. It does not matter how you came to be a religious person.

Elizabethann, The offensive post are from heterosexuals that oppose this. Not sure how you ever came to the conclusion they were from the homosexual community. Read back through (if they havent been removed yet). Its pretty obvious.

And Lyndenm, I'd dare say that caesar is posting it again to back peddle his way around all the filth he's previously written. More than likely concerned about having his username deleted (as they did with Richard37) or having his IP banned.

Elizabethann --Most of the comments made in here are by heterosexuals. Saying that this is a glimpse of conversation within the homosexual life isn't really right. I myself am happily married (to a male LOL)--and am not for or against gays. I have many friends that are heterosexual & also gay so its hard for me to judge anyone especially since we're all human & all make mistakes. When I have a personal friend who wants to get married, she knows I am against it, but I do not put her down. She is more than a lesbian--she is also a great friend with interests the same as me--we both like the same authors, love to cook, she respects my marriage to my husband, respects the many heterosexuals she has as friends--so in return she has alot of respect from everyone who knows her. Very nice person!! Anyways......those comments you were referring to is not part of the gay lifestyle. They were all made by the "straight" community.

Part of my point is that heterosexual couples may choose not to have children, but they have loving and intimate relationships. Many homosexual couples choose to have children and that is as medically possible as it is for heterosexual couples who are medically unable to reproduce.

Don't we have enough people on this planet? In fact, too many? That's what I hear. I'm not gay, or especially liberal in my views, but maybe we should look at the bright side of this gay marriage issue, at least until we get a handle on Global Warming and the Energy Crisis. Fewer mouths to feed, smaller carbon footprint for the human population, less sewage.

i'm gonna have 400 babies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs

Gay Marriage: Why Would It Affect Me?

Ten Arguments Against Same Sex Marriage

(This is a synopsis of the new book by Dr. James Dobson, Marriage Under Fire.)

Argument #1.

The implications for children in a world of decaying families are profound. A recent article in the Weekly Standard described how the advent of legally sanctioned gay unions in Scandinavian countries has already destroyed the institution of marriage, where half of today's children are born out of wedlock.

It is predicted now, based on demographic trends in this country, that more than half of the babies born in the 1990s will spend at least part of their childhood in single-parent homes.

Social scientists have been surprisingly consistent in warning against this fractured family. If it continues, almost every child will have several "moms" and "dads," perhaps six or eight "grandparents," and dozens of half-siblings. It will be a world where little boys and girls are shuffled from pillar to post in an ever-changing pattern of living arrangements-where huge numbers of them will be raised in foster-care homes or living on the street (as millions do in other countries all over the world today). Imagine an environment where nothing is stable and where people think primarily about themselves and their own self-preservation.

The apostle Paul described a similar society in Romans 1, which addressed the epidemic of homosexuality that was rampant in the ancient world and especially in Rome at that time. He wrote, "They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless" (v. 29-31, NIV).

It appears likely now that the demise of families will accelerate this type of decline dramatically, resulting in a chaotic culture that will be devastating to children.

Argument #2

The introduction of legalized gay marriages will lead inexorably to polygamy and other alternatives to one-man, one-woman unions.

In Utah, polygamist Tom Green, who claims five wives, is citing Lawrence v. Texas as the legal authority for his appeal. This past January, a Salt Lake City civil rights attorney filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of another couple wanting to engage in legal polygamy. Their justification? Lawrence v. Texas.

The ACLU of Utah has actually suggested that the state will "have to step up to prove that a polygamous relationship is detrimental to society"-as opposed to the polygamists having to prove that plural marriage is not harmful to the culture. Do you see how the game is played? Despite 5,000 years of history, the burden now rests on you and me to prove that polygamy is unhealthy. The ACLU went on to say that the nuclear family "may not be necessarily the best model." Indeed, Justice Antonin Scalia warned of this likelihood in his statement for the minority in the Lawrence case.10 It took less than six months for his prediction to become reality.

Why will gay marriage set the table for polygamy? Because there is no place to stop once that Rubicon has been crossed. Historically, the definition of marriage has rested on a bedrock of tradition, legal precedent, theology and the overwhelming support of the people.

After the introduction of marriage between homosexuals, however, it will be supported by nothing more substantial than the opinion of a single judge or by a black-robed panel of justices. After they have done their wretched work, the family will consist of little more than someone's interpretation of "rights."

Given that unstable legal climate, it is certain that some self-possessed judge, somewhere, will soon rule that three men and one woman can marry. Or five and two, or four and four. Who will be able to deny them that right? The guarantee is implied, we will be told, by the Constitution. Those who disagree will continue to be seen as hate-mongers and bigots. (Indeed, those charges are already being leveled against those of us who espouse biblical values!) How about group marriage, or marriage between relatives, or marriage between adults and children? How about marriage between a man and his donkey? Anything allegedly linked to "civil rights" will be doable. The legal underpinnings for marriage will have been destroyed.

Argument #3

An even greater objective of the homosexual movement is to end the state's compelling interest in marital relationships altogether. After marriages have been redefined, divorces will be obtained instantly, will not involve a court, and will take on the status of a driver's license or a hunting permit. With the family out of the way, all rights and privileges of marriage will accrue to gay and lesbian partners without the legal entanglements and commitments heretofore associated with it.

Argument #4

With the legalization of homosexual marriage, every public school in the nation will be required to teach that this perversion is the moral equivalent of traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Textbooks, even in conservative states, will have to depict man/man and woman/woman relationships, and stories written for children as young as elementary school, or even kindergarten, will have to give equal space to homosexuals.

Argument #5

From that point forward, courts will not be able to favor a traditional family involving one man and one woman over a homosexual couple in matters of adoption. Children will be placed in homes with parents representing only one sex on an equal basis with those having a mom and a dad. The prospect of fatherless and motherless children will not be considered in the evaluation of eligibility. It will be the law.

Argument #6

Foster-care parents will be required to undergo "sensitivity training" to rid themselves of bias in favor of traditional marriage, and will have to affirm homosexuality in children and teens.

Argument #7

How about the impact on Social Security if there are millions of new dependents that will be entitled to survivor benefits? It will amount to billions of dollars on an already overburdened system. And how about the cost to American businesses? Unproductive costs mean fewer jobs for those who need them. Are state and municipal governments to be required to raise taxes substantially to provide health insurance and other benefits to millions of new "spouses and other dependents"?

Argument #8

Marriage among homosexuals will spread throughout the world, just as pornography did after the Nixon Commission declared obscene material "beneficial" to mankind.11 Almost instantly, the English-speaking countries liberalized their laws against smut. America continues to be the fountainhead of filth and immorality, and its influence is global.

The point is that numerous leaders in other nations are watching to see how we will handle the issue of homosexuality and marriage. Only two countries in the world have authorized gay marriage to date-the Netherlands and Belgium. Canada is leaning in that direction, as are numerous European countries. Dr. Darrell Reid, president of Focus on the Family Canada, told me two weeks ago that his country is carefully monitoring the United States to see where it is going. If we take this step off a cliff, the family on every continent will splinter at an accelerated rate. Conversely, our U.S. Supreme Court has made it clear that it looks to European and Canadian law in the interpretation of our Constitution.13 What an outrage! That should have been grounds for impeachment, but the Congress, as usual, remained passive and silent.

Argument #9

Perhaps most important, the spread of the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed. The family has been God's primary vehicle for evangelism since the beginning.

Its most important assignment has been the propagation of the human race and the handing down of the faith to our children. Malachi 2:15 reads, referring to husbands and wives, "Has not the Lord made them one? In flesh and spirit they are His. And why one? Because He was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth" (NIV).

That responsibility to teach the next generation will never recover from the loss of committed, God-fearing families. The younger generation and those yet to come will be deprived of the Good News, as has already occurred in France, Germany and other European countries. Instead of providing for a father and mother, the advent of homosexual marriage will create millions of motherless children and fatherless kids. This is morally wrong, and is condemned in Scripture. Are we now going to join the Netherlands and Belgium to become the third country in the history of the world to "normalize" and legalize behavior that has been prohibited by God himself? Heaven help us if we do!

Argument #10

The culture war will be over, and I fear, the world may soon become "as it was in the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37, NIV). This is the climactic moment in the battle to preserve the family, and future generations hang in the balance.

This apocalyptic and pessimistic view of the institution of the family and its future will sound alarmist to many, but I think it will prove accurate unless-unless-God's people awaken and begin an even greater vigil of prayer for our nation. That's why Shirley and I are urgently seeking the Lord's favor and asking Him to hear the petitions of His people and heal our land.

As of this time, however, large segments of the church appear to be unaware of the danger; its leaders are surprisingly silent about our peril (although we are tremendously thankful for the efforts of those who have spoken out on this issue). The lawless abandon occurring recently in California, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Washington and elsewhere should have shocked us out of our lethargy. So far, I'm alarmed to say, the concern and outrage of the American people have not translated into action.

This reticence on behalf of Christians is deeply troubling. Marriage is a sacrament designed by God that serves as a metaphor for the relationship between Christ and His Church. Tampering with His plan for the family is immoral and wrong. To violate the Lord's expressed will for humankind, especially in regard to behavior that He has prohibited, is to court disaster.

I thought Maine was supposed to be one of the most easy going states in the country.....what happened? Maine....The way life should be. Gay people are people too....even prostitutes are people too. Why are we going to start discriminating? We have a "Black" Man for President!!! It took this country a long time to get to where we are today, so why go back to where we were?? Giving gays the right to get married, share insurances, bills and all of those things isn't going to legalize cocaine, prostitution, or marijuana! Those are completely seperate issues. We are talking about real people who want the same rights .....(not "special" rights)as everyone else. We are doing anything illegal.

I propose a protest *lighting of candles* in front of this inn.

PRAISE JESUS

The scripture isn't going to help here folks. Preach all you want. Our government and our state have proven over and over that they will not base our civil law upon your outdated Middle Eastern mythology. You're going to have to do better than that.

Civil law is NOT based upon your religion. Civil law is PURPOSEFULLY kept separate from religious doctrine.

This will happen. Your religion will not change that.

This... WILL... happen.

Now the homosexuals are trying to buy their way into a new law by claims of all the business it will create. Can / will Augusta be bought off in this manner ? God help us if any town or our state trades their birthright for this very minuscule amount of sin profit.

middle eastern?

the last time i checked the jews lived in poland...

wait... what?

Shame, carrier, they said the same thing about slots...

And theres fewer gay people than there are slots players

Maybe we can have Gay Night at Hollywood Slots

increase the revenue

anne and lyndenm: I agree with both of you on this.....probably best to just ignore those that get through. They are here mostly to get negative attention anyway!

the issue at hand here, I just figured - isn't the gay agenda or the heterosexual providence

its the fact that gay people want to get married and this is just a new ploy. I understand this article now. And it is in a complete new light I say this comment:

If homosexuals think they can outright save the state of maine's economy all by themselves by having a GAY MARRIAGE LAW, they're sorely wrong, and anyone who believes that load of BS is just as wrong as they are thinking it will be the saving grace of Maine

why can't people in this state read through the thinly veiled plans of the LEFT?

they all have an agenda.

Tedlick...it's not just religion..the law of God. It's natural law, moral law. Relatism is satans lie. No absolute truths.

4Him..great post. Remember the battle has already been won. God has the final word. The battle is not of the flesh. It is in the spiritual realm. Satan uses the flesh and our emotions to bring us under his control. It is a battle between good and evil.

Last post for me...

At the risk of being redundant, because I posted this earlier in another area (yes I have amended some of it)

Appears to me in reading some of these above comments that people want things both ways. They want the federal and state issues out of religion but they want their beliefs to guide federal and state issues. It guess the whole issue comes down to secularism. Is the US a secular state? Does our government truly practice separately from religion and religious beliefs? Many people site the Freedom of Reliigion Amendment and others site the idea of separation of church and state. There are two issues in regards to secularism 1. freedom to practice one's own religion without government interference or funding and 2. activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact not by religion.

Has the US government never stepped over the line in regards to not being influenced by religion? Have various religious denominations never stepped over the line of influencing the political policies of our government? Can we as a nation, founded on the belief that all are created equal leave some of our citizens behind in that basic foundation? Can we silence those we do not agree with? The US government has put into law many things throughout its history that some people have not agreed with: ending slavery (1862), womens' right to vote (1920) declaring Native Americans as citizens (1924), civil rights (1964) , inter-racial marriage (1967)for examples. These things were not done because of / only because of the public outcry of the 'people', they were done because they were right. This country is ever-evolving and the founders considered it a living document. That is why the Constitution is amended.

Our civil law is not based upon your god's law.

Sorry. It is very very easy to see if you just look.

Gods law governs that god's followers, not citizens of any state or country.

This will happen.

4him2day, might I suggest you practice some brevity. Good God almighty if BDN readers wanted to buy this fruit cake's book they would.

But since you feel the need to pitch this doctors beliefs to the readers they should also know that this "doctor" Dobson you follow also advocates that parent abuse their children. To quote; Dobson urges parents to hit their children with “sufficient magnitude and force to cause physical pain and suffering so that the child would cry genuinely.” Despite having no formal theological training, Dobson has set himself up as the final word on the Scriptures, morality and all things “Christian,” his version of “Christian” of course.

This Dr you follow is far from a christian as he uses his rhetoric and actions to hurt people not help and uses "his" dogma for political gain.

Dobson’s comments and accusations were so outrageous that a group of pastors lead by Pastor Kirbyjon Caldwell started JamesDobsonDoesNotSpeakForMe.com.

Sorry him2day, YOUR interpetation of the bible is not MY interpetation as it surely wasnt what I was taught growing up in the church. We were taught to love and forgive. We were taught that it is NOT our place to judge others.

People like you believe in their interpretation of the Bible -- and their’s only -- should supercede all civil laws, including the U.S. Constitution. You cherry pick scritptures that form around your own beliefs and that is just wrong on so many levels.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

seththayer: It DOES NOT make most of us sick at all!

But then there are the ones who make such comments as at 7:03 AM "......but normal people avoid that area like the plague." "NORMAL PEOPLE" ??!! Yeah, this individual sounds real "normal" to me!

It won't be that very much longer when this will all be a thing of the past, where it belongs. As I said before, my older son says that if it were up to the younger generation,this would not be the big deal others make it. There would not be all this opposition to gay people attaining rights and protections if it were up to his generation. (in his 20's.)

anne: Does the BDN "censor" anything here on these posts?!!

tedlick: Yes, this will happen. Difficult to ask these folks to still have more patience , but it will happen.

so true chesully, so true,

kasdyn: My Christian church preached and taught as yours did, and most others. Thank you for all you said (10:21 AM) I am just on a short break at work but just wanted to say "thanks" for what you wrote.

MainelyMe2: You are so correct. 9:40 AM. Maybe they should just mosey on down to Vassalboro for the day and have themselves a good old time!!!

Way back near the beginning of the posts---take a look . DID I JUST READ THAT Mainelyme SUGGESTED A SIN TAX ON GAYS MARRIAGE LICENSES ?? WOW !! HE CALLED IT A SIN !! HE FINALLY ADMITS IT'S A SIN. AND I'LL BET HE RESPONDS TO THIS POST BY BLASTING ME FOR REPEATING WHAT HE WROTE .

Call it a 'domestic partnership'---call it a ' civil union' --call it ANYTHING except MARRIAGE ---PLEASE !!!!

When people are wanting gay unions to be legalized in order to fill their pocketbooks and bank accounts they are commiting a sin as well. Getting rich from things that God forbids is sickening.

I love how straight people twist words around to make it sound worse then it is. Gays never said that they alone would save the state's economy. Business owners in the state of Maine said that it would definately help their business! Oh and to MillinocketRocket...I used to live in Mlkt. and I know many many gay people in your area. Most of them are very good people who hold down very good jobs and they are "Normal" just like you. And, "They" may of been there for your family and friends in a time of need, and you probably didn't even know they were gay!

eddiebauer: Yes, so true.....and as we recall Jesus did not discriminate....not with prostitutes, as you mention here, and we could go on and on.

MainelyMe2: You got it so right. Most of the "really nice" (not!) comments here are made by heterosexuals....what does that tell us?!!

eddiebauer: Right-on! 10:38 AM. But some of these folks are so oblivious .......and worse.

Mainelyme: Some here do not even recognize when you are joking......maybe they need to lighten up some!!!

"[The Taxpayer Costs of Divorce and Unwed Childbearing] report, which shows Maine is losing $214 million annually from the breakdown of the family. Now is the time to strengthen the family, not further tear it apart.”" What does this have to do with marriage equality. Since same-sex marriage is legal in only a few states and not in Maine, it can not be the cause of Maine losing $214 million. Second, how can building safe, marriages contribute to this problem. Sounds like James Dobson's famous quote, "Scandinavian countries have virtually adopted same-sex marriage and it has resulted in an explosion of unwed births." This is the rational disconnect that results from the prejudice of the opponents of same-sex marriage.

The firefighters are John Ghiotto, Chad Allison, Jason Hewitt and Alexander Kane and they filed a complaint after being ordered to participate in the July 21, 2007, parade promoting homosexuality and explicit sex.

WND reported earlier when attorney Charles LiMandri, who also serves as the West Coast director for the Thomas More Law Center, launched the legal action against the city of San Diego.

"These men were sexually harassed in clear violation of San Diego's sexual harassment code," LiMandri said. "Further, the California Constitution's freedom of speech provision prohibits compelled speech. What the firefighters were ordered to do was endorse what goes on at this parade through their participation in it."

…

Ghiotto, a captain at the time, said he suggested to supervisors that volunteers be used for the parade, but instead officials ordered him to take a crew.

"While moving down the parade route we were subjected to verbal abuse, (show me your hose, you can put out my fire, give me mouth to mouth, flick you fireman) sexual gestures, (showing their ----, blowing kisses, grabbing their -----, rubbing their ------, tongue gestures, flipping us off)," Ghiotto reported in a statement.

San Diego's fire chief, Tracy Jarman, is an open lesbian who called the parade a "fun event" in which "all employees are encouraged to participate."

"We were subject to this type of abuse and more throughout the parade route. You could not even look at the crowd without getting some type of sexual gesture. Even the Christian protesters were giving us grief for being a part of this. The experience left me feeling humiliated, embarrassed and offended," Ghiotto said.

"If any of my crew or I were to hang up pictures at the station of what we saw, we would be disciplined!" he said.

PaleShadows: Very observant of you.....and so true.

seththayer: 9:34 AM. Masterful.! I hope all the best for you and those in your life.

You can write as truthfully and wonderfully as you have here, and so many of us appreciate it. There are some here who never will (they have closed minds ,etc.) I am with you......I have no interest whatsoever about someone else's private life. None. And we should not....

The firefighter story has NOTHING whatsoever to do with marriage. Stay on topic.

PaleShadows: Great suggestion (sounds like a good place for them to spout off, etc.) 9:23 AM. Like-minded individuals and all!!!!!!

"This reticence on behalf of Christians is deeply troubling. Marriage is a sacrament designed by God that serves as a metaphor for the relationship between Christ and His Church. Tampering with His plan for the family is immoral and wrong. To violate the Lord's expressed will for humankind, especially in regard to behavior that He has prohibited, is to court disaster." If marriage is a sacrament, then civil marriage should not be preformed any more than any other sacrament like Baptism or mass. Metaphor for the relationship between Christ and His Church? What a joke. The Catholic Church holds that married couples can engage in any form of sexual activity. Is this what you mean by this metaphor? The Lord has never expressed his will on this issue nor has he ever prohibited this behavior.

PEOPLE....READ THE SOURCE.... UCLA EDU???? my son took an exchange program from a semester at UNH and went to ucla and at the end of the semester he went back to UNH and said he never had to study that whole semester because they were so behind in their education!!! he said he would graduate with honors but he would be stupid! and this first choice of human action shows where their brains are.... in their pockets and between their legs! THIS ISN'T THE KIND OF HIGHER EDUCATION THE WORLD IS TALKING ABOUT!!! NO to GAY MARRIAGE!!!!! **==

TO 4him2day: I am truly sorry for what you had to put up with during your parade. However, I believe you got a taste of what heterosexuals are doing to the homosexuals. If heterosexuals would give the homosexuals respect they deserve....you probably wouldn't of had to experience that.

Speaking of joking...no really...I was spanked as a youngster much to my oposition but look at the great outcome today...and I am thinking that Stevey would admit to spankings that he and brute partook of and look at the happy go lucky guy now and how much Stevey contributes to our society....as far as brute, we've never met so I can't comment about her? him? it?.....

A Christian law firm will appeal a ruling by the New Mexico Human Rights Commission fining a photographer who refused to take photos of a homosexual commitment ceremony.

Elaine Huguenin and her husband Jon, who co-own Elane Photography in Albuquerque, New Mexico, are both Christians. So when a lesbian couple asked them to photograph their “commitment ceremony” in Taos, the Huguenins politely refused. In response, Vanessa Willock filed a complaint with the New Mexico Human Rights Commission claiming the Huguenins discriminated against her because of her “sexual orientation.” On Wednesday, the Commission found the Christian couple guilty of discrimination under state anti-discrimination laws and ordered them to pay more than $6,000 in costs.

Jordan Lorence with the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) represented the Huguenins. He contends the lawsuit reflects an attitude among homosexual activists.

“This decision is a stunning disregard for religious liberty and First Amendment freedoms of people of faith, of Christians, and those who believe in traditional marriage defined as one man and one woman,” says the attorney. “This shows the very disconcerting, authoritarian face of the homosexual activists, who are using these non-discrimination laws as weapons against Christians in the business world and Christians in their churches.”

Lorence believes the Huguenins will win an appeal of the decision. But he warns this is how similar laws in 19 other states, and the proposed federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act, can be misused to silence biblical beliefs.

“There is a great threat to our religious liberties and our ability to speak out in favor of traditional marriage when these non-discrimination laws are interpreted in such a harsh way to censor Christians and others,” he asserts.

Lorence said Americans do not surrender their freedoms of speech or religion just because they choose to open a business. He added that the Commission’s decision is tantamount to the State of New Mexico forcing a vegetarian videographer to create a commercial for a butcher shop.

Ads

Speak out in favor of "traditional marriage" all you want, it will change nothing. You want the government to protect the liberty of a choice you have made, but you want them to deny liberty to people who are only being what they are.

Yes, yes... I know... people choose to "act on the immoral desire" of homosexuality. Old lame argument is old, tired, and lame. They do NOT choose to be homosexual.

Our civil law protects your right to have your religion, but does not give you the right to crap on people in the name of that religion.

Civil law is not based upon your religious doctrine. Civil is purposefully separated from your religious doctrine.

Preach to us all you want... it will make no difference.

This...

WILL...

happen.

tedlick, as I said before some people want it both ways, keep the governments out of my religion but don't let them keep my religion out of the government, which I repeat is secular.

And wasn't it interesting that Dick Cheney ( a real strong conservative) is for gay rights!....oh that's right one of his 2 daughters, who he loves very much, is gay. See, we need to put ourselves in anothers' shoes....and not judge!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS

Charges dropped

against jailed dad

Massachusetts man arrested for protest

of homosexual kindergarten curriculum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: October 20, 2005

6:23 pm Eastern

© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com

David Parker, parent of kindergartner, stands before Judge Robert McKenna in Concord District Court April 28 after spending the night in jail (Photo: Article 8 Alliance)

A Massachusetts district attorney dropped its case today against a father arrested while attempting to secure a promise from school officials to notify parents before teaching about homosexuality in his son's kindergarten class.

David Parker, who faced criminal prosecution by the town of Lexington, spent a night in jail in April and was charged with criminal trespassing after refusing to leave a scheduled meeting with officials at the Estabrook Elementary School.

But Middlesex County District Attorney Martha Coakley informed the court this morning her office decided not to pursue the criminal trespassing charge, reports Article 8 Alliance, a Massachusetts group battling same-sex marriage.

The jury trial had been scheduled to begin this morning in Concord District Court.

Judge Robert McKenna used a relatively unusual procedure to order the case delayed into administrative limbo, and it will be dropped completely after one year.

Parker has made no admission of guilt and the full presumption of his innocence officially continues, according to Article 8.

Parker's lead attorney, Jeffrey Denner, said the procedure is different from the much more commonly used "continued without a finding," in which a defendant admits sufficient facts exist to warrant a conviction and the case eventually is dropped.

"I would have loved to defend this case," said Denner. "But this resolution is far too good to pass up. It's a great result. The DA chose not to prosecute. There is no admission of guilt and no presumption of guilt."

Procedurally, Parker has been placed on "pre-trial probation" for one year, in which he promises to "obey all lawful orders" and pay a $50 fee.

There are other possible restrictions, but Parker's lawyers likely will get involved if the state makes any "unreasonable" demands, Article 8 said.

But the criminal trespass case has no legal connection to the ban that Lexington School Superintendent Paul Ash continues to impose against Parker, which keeps him from all school property in the town.

The ban is a source of contention among Parker's supporters, who see it as a punitive act of intimidation, since Parker has never demonstrated himself to be a danger to anyone, Article 8 says.

At the hearing this morning, a group of homosexual-rights activists gathered with signs to demonstrate against Parker.

The dispute began last spring when Parker's then-5-year-old son brought home a book to be shared with his parents titled, "Who's in a Family?" The optional reading material, which came in a "Diversity Book Bag," depicted at least two households led by homosexual partners.

David Parker's son brought home the book 'Who's in a Family?' in school's 'Diversity Book Bag' (Image: Article 8 Alliance)

The illustrated book says, "A family can be made up in many different ways" and includes this text:

"Laura and Kyle live with their two moms, Joyce and Emily, and a poodle named Daisy. It takes all four of them to give Daisy her bath."

Another illustrated page says:

"Robin's family is made up of her dad, Clifford, her dad's partner, Henry, and Robin's cat, Sassy. Clifford and Henry take turns making dinner for their family."

Parker complained to school officials, and at a scheduled meeting at Estabrook Elementary School April 27 with the principal and the town's director of education, he was told an agreement could be reached.

But after the superintendent intervened via telephone, Parker abruptly was told that unless he left the meeting he would be arrested.

Parker insisted that an agreement be reached before he left, and school officials called police, who handcuffed him and brought him to jail, where he spent the night.

You need to see the picture of this poor father in handcuffs, It really makes the point!

lyndenm: 9:11 AM Yes, that is a dilemma....and no easy answers maybe. I just do not read some of the posts (not many, but a few) which are just not worth it. Let someone else read them I guess. Life is too short......

anne: 9:08 AM "Funny" but true. How do a few of those posts get by?!!

anne: Wonder if he does not like it, why he was so interested in "checking it out:?!!.....7:08 AM.

re 7:50 A: I may not agree with PabMainer but he sure does well with his poems....pretty clever, I must say....

The 11:47 AM post has NOTHING to do with marriage. It has to do with someone's dislike for school curriculum that happens to contain info on families which have gay members (which, by the way, many, many do).

Please keep things on topic.

Bangorian: Yes, and sure that includes, among others, 7:53 AM. Sad......

8:55 AM...and he/she should talk??!!!

Elizabethann: Yes, totally disgusting....and look who all the disgusting comments are coming from!.....your pals....you must be "blind."

I believe in freedom. Who am I to deny a freedom to someone else who partakes in activities I may find disgusting? It doesn't effect me. People need to realize that there arent homosexual humans and heterosexual humans, were all humans who participate in different sexual acts and live different lifestyles. With that said I believe in peoples right to choose as long as it doesn't affect the freedom of someone else. If the homosexual lobby wants the to be married so be it. On the other hand the homosexual lobby must be tolerant of religious groups who will refuse to marry same sex couples. This is a moral issue. I'm for peoples right to choose. If the homosexual lobby doesn't want the religious folks pushing their morals on them, then they as well musn't push their morality on other people. my 2 cents.

1 Kings 14:24 - There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.

Genesis 13:13 - Now the men of Sodom (Bangor) were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 14:21 - The king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself." (Gays coming to Maine and spending their wares)

Genesis 14:22 - But Abram (Bangor) said to the king of Sodom (Gays), "I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath that I will accept nothing belonging to you (weddings, receptions, etc.), not even a thread or the thong (butt-floss) of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, 'I made Abram (Bangor) rich.'

-Livin' by the lawd everyday

Him42day, PLEASE stop flooding the board with all your copy and paste articles!! They have nothing to do with THIS article.

We all have access to the internet and many of us get our news from other sites other than the BDN. And for what its worth, this guy SHOULD be in handcuffs. He was causing a direct disturbance and was asked several times to leave. Dont feel bad for this bigot...feel bad for the children that live in real life households outside of those books where they have 2 loving moms or 2 loving dads, yet are singled out and made to feel bad because "their family" is doesnt live up to YOUR ideals. Anyone who opposes the teaching of tolerance should be ashamed of themselves. This is no different the segregation.

eddiebauer - Right on!

Chersully, couldnt agree more. I have absolutely no interest in someone else's personal life nor should they be interested in mine.

Paleshadows, indeed....VERY observant. I love it when someone puts a homophobe in check!!

and Pab...huh? I guess congrat to you and SteveyD?

I apologize for doing this, but a some are asking us to look at their posts, I feel they should be aware of this:

FBI 2006 Statistics on Hate Crimes

Bias motivation Incidents Offenses Victims1 Known offenders2

Religion: 1,462 1,597 1,750 705

Anti-Jewish 967 1,027 1,144 362

Anti-Catholic 76 81 86 44

Anti-Protestant 59 62 65 35

Anti-Islamic 156 191 208 147

Anti-Other Religion 124 140 147 63

Anti-Multiple Religions, Group 73 88 92 49

Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. 7 8 8 5

Sexual Orientation: 1,195 1,415 1,472 1,380

Anti-Male Homosexual 747 881 913 914

Anti-Female Homosexual 163 192 202 154

Anti-Homosexual 238 293 307 268

Anti-Heterosexual 26 28 29 26

Anti-Bisexual 21 21 21 18

Captain-not-so-obvious. Your post is ridiculous.

These Bible quotes are used over and over and over and over. They are translations and re-translations. And they have NOTHING to do with civil law

Right lyndenn, they cherry pick the scriptures to support their point while ignoring all others. Its just such a tiring argument. This is NOT about religion it is about equal rights. PERIOD.

kadyln:

those who defame the word of god are to burn in the fires of hell eternally

-revelations

Homosexuality wasn't even defined until the 1800s, how can the word homosexual be in the bible? It is because of the re-translations done by man and not the divine word of god.

I for one look forward to my time in hell for defaming the word of an imaginary bogey man in the sky...

I get a day shift tormenting catholics that got caught eating meat on a Friday, and a night shift tormenting baptists that got caught dancing.

Oughtta be a blast!

‘Gay’ Activists Use California School

Kids to Push Their Agenda

A must read for parents: radical

initiatives in California will directly

affect what your children learn.

Under the mantras of “tolerance” and

“safety,” homosexual activists have targeted

our children as change agents to normalize

their behavior in America, and

California is at the forefront.

Oakland Unified School

District has a middle school “tolerance”

program called “Erasing

Homophobia.” Los Angeles

Unified School District has guidelines

addressing the pronouns by

which “gender nonconforming”

students (such as boys wearing

dresses) should be referred, together

with special restroom and locker

room recommendations.

Members of the nation’s first legislative

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender

(LGBT) State Caucus and their allies regularly

introduce bills affecting every area of

state regulations. This year, with the help of

a radical liberal majority, homosexual

activists passed a record 14 pieces of LGBT

legislation.

If you don't like what schools teach then take them out,

12:17 PM... again, tiring and completely off topic.

Can we please stay on topic (the topic, by the way, is the idea that promoting equality to all with regards to marriage will be financially good for the state of Maine).

there are lots of non-secular schools to enroll them in and there's always home-schooling. No one forces parents to enroll their kids in public education.

Captian, I guess you'll be well on your way then, since you took it upon yourself to use the BDN forum to post scriptures while inserting your "own" words and meaning.

I'm quite confident in my faith thank you very much.

Perhaps you should join the other homophics in this forum.

lyndenm: 11:39 AM I have said the same quite often. Kind of disingenious, isn't it...

Oh Please 4him, you took that article and twisted and replace several of the words. That is NOT how it was written in the the SD news. Everything you bring here and paste has come from a biased source.

kasdyln.Yeah, how many "captains" are there here?!!

Professing to be wise, they became fools,

23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator,who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

I'm now at a point where it's just easier to copy and paste my own words:

Our civil law protects your right to have your religion, but does not give you the right to crap on people in the name of that religion.

Civil law is not based upon your religious doctrine. Civil is purposefully separated from your religious doctrine.

Preach to us all you want... it will make no difference.

This...

WILL...

happen.

4Him, what does that have to do with CIVIL rights?

For those interested that bible verse above is book of romans chapter 1 in the bible, pretty clear to me.

Right on, tedlick...right on!!!

Chersully, heck if I know how many...I lost count, lol.

but... but...

No one is interested in your bible verse. It has no bearing on this topic in the least.

That's pretty clear to me.

HOMOSEXUALS USE THE UN TO PUSH THEIR AGENDA

Not content to merely push their agenda country by country, homosexual activists are now proposing a global enactment of their agenda by way of the UN.

In April, at the meeting in Geneva of the 53-member UN Human Rights Commission, Brazil, in an unprecedented resolution co-sponsored by Canada, moved that the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights be amended to ban discrimination based on sexual orientation world-wide.

This is the first resolution in UN history to link homosexuality with human rights. International law scholars agree that if such a proposal is passed, it will have serious ramifications for society and religions, resulting in same-sex marriage, hate crimes' legislation, and a curtailing of freedom of speech and religion world-wide. At the very least, this initiative opens the door to attacks on religious faiths with regard to hiring, employment, and the faith's own doctrines.

This resolution was heavily promoted by the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) which described this resolution as an "historic opportunity to advance lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues into human rights law." The resolution was backed, in addition to the sponsors, Brazil and Canada, by 17 other nations, such as Austria, Belgium, Croatia, France, Germany, Guatemala, Japan, Mexico, Poland, Republic of Korea, Sweden, Ukraine, U.K., Uruguay and Venezuela. Fortunately, the Organization of the Islamic Conference, headed by Pakistan, and including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Malaysia, made a submission which stated that "the resolution directly contradicts the tenets of Islam and other religions," and that its approval would be "a direct insult to 1.2 billion Muslims around the world."

This pressure from the Muslim countries was one of the reasons for the decision by the UN Human Rights Commission to postpone its vote on the resolution until next year.

Powerful homosexual activists were enraged by this postponement and blamed, in addition to the Muslim countries, the US and the Vatican for an "unholy alliance." Homosexual activists have promised to redouble their efforts to lobby governments world-wide.

Well in the spirit of copying and pasting:

The Bible accepts sexual practices that we condemn and condemns sexual practices that we accept. Here are a few examples.

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21

If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.

DEUTERONOMY 22:22

If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.

MARK 10:1-12

Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.

LEVITICUS 18:19

The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.

MARK 12:18-27

If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12

If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

him4, please tell me the above offenders will the next in line for your personal agenda of condeming the sinner.

And we get more garbage from the peanut gallery!!!

Actually, I see little if any difference between your type of christian and all the whacked out muslims of the world.

You're all the same kind of creature.

Civil law is not based upon your religious doctrine. Civil is purposefully separated from your religious doctrine.

Preach to us all you want... it will make no difference.

This...

WILL...

happen.

If Mr Davitt arleady is housing both gays and straights then what makes him think gay marriage is going to bring him anymore business? I have never been asked when I book a room if I'm single, married, gay or straight. I have to agree with Govt2Big I think it will drive more people away then boost their business. And seththayer there is NOTHING NORMAL about being gay.

Oh geez, I cant forget these practices that were also accepted in the Scriptures.

"Slavery and sex with slaves, marriage of girls aged 11-13, and treatment of women as property are all accepted practices in the Scriptures. On the other hand, there are strict prohibitions against interracial marriage, birth control, discussing or even naming a sexual organ, and seeing one's parents nude."

kasdyln: But it is all about pick and choose with them, don't you know!

Come on people, stay on topic! tedlick your slipping, or is your badgering only good for the goose but not the gander?

PabMainer,

My "badgering" is directed at those who think their religion is supposed to shape our civil law.

As for goose and/or gander, if I were into the goose we'd not be having this discussion ;-)

Exactly chersully. Pick and choose as they go along. Lets hope they dont eat bacon as that is also forbidden!!

ELIZABETHANN YOU ARE A DOUCHE.

Why are you guys getting so angry??? I'm here for you. Just remember not everyone believes in the Bible. So in other words if you don't believe then it is ok to be gay. But if you do believe you can't be gay. Sound logical??

SteveyDee coming from someone who is only 1/2 a man I guess we can believe you to a point....I was trying to somehow say something like this earlier...wow...hey speaking of bacon, I love bacon how about you? Sorry to talk about brute earlier but couldn't help it...also speaking of douche, I prefer mine who do....sound logical?

This issue doesn't have anything to do with the ecconomy in Maine. Maine is 3rd on the list of the highest taxes and cost of living in the nation. That is why I moved out of the state 12 years ago and can come back to Maine and spend the summers and fall on the money I saved from living there year round. Wake up Maine, start holding your elected representatives responsible for your ecconomic mess...who cares if your gay or straight...you can't afford to live in Maine and travel around the world the same time...ain't going to happen.

Rich in Virginia

On 2/26/09 at 11:50 AM, chersully2000 wrote:

anne: Wonder if he does not like it, why he was so interested in "checking it out:?!!.....7:08 AM.

You funny. Didn't think I would see???????? Because in order to visit the Pilgrim Monument you had to go through P Town that's why. How come I didn't see you and Mainelyme there?

I'm trying real hard here to be nice. Some of these postings are encouraging me to say something but I won't. I'm a changed man.

JEFF TUTTLE CONSPIRES WITH THE DEVIL

Me and my brute love our bacon. Now that's logic.

kasdyln - correction on divorce - divorce is permitted for reasons of infidelity in the New Testament. As for the other "laws" you find confusing, it would take most of your lifetime to understand the reasoning. Why don't join a bible-believing church and give it a shot??

I love Provincetown. My folks live on the Cape so we get there at least once a year. Welcoming the gay community there certainly has not been bad for business! The streets are always crowded, even in the shoulder seasons. When I compare Bar Harbor to Provincetown as a destination P-town wins hands-down. All Bar Harbor has to recommend it is Acadia, which is phenomenal, but to me the town itself is seriously lacking in charm. P-town has managed to keep its small town, unique personality, and most if not all of its shops are unique as well. Plus the whale watches are w-a-a-y better.

sewmama: What is your definition of Normal? Mine differs from yours as do most people's definitions of Normal. It is a completely subjective term. You might never take baths,...to me that's not normal. You might not like wheat bread...that's not normal in my book.

I get up in the morning, put my pants on, one leg at a time, I wear flannel shirts and carhart jeans. I shop at Reny's and Marden's. I work on my house all winiter and my boat all summer...I'm a pretty normal guy.

So, what's your definition of normal?

SteveyDee, your restraint is much appreciated.

Hey TDICKLICK,

Remember, God's law was around far before any civil law was based upon it. You can't seriously mean that God's laws have no bearing on civil laws. I mean anyone with any sense in their head at all can see the plain as day connections. Are you really that blind??

SteveyDee so glad to hear about your being a changed person. I have been praying for this for some time now for you. I also believe that I am a changed person and trying not to fall off the nice wagon like you but extremely difficult. I must have had an epiphany (and fyi that is not something you need an antibiotic for) or something like an out of body experience, it's unexplainable.... I even think that someone here (not naming any names) might have paid me a half hearted compliment, not just once today but yesterday also! And you guys don't believe in miracles....ha

bigfootinheels, that was really uncalled for. Besides, the first legal and moral codes were written well before Christianity hit the scene. Would you like it if we lived under Muslim law?

bigfootinheels,

Nope... mankind was around long before that book, and men were living in societies under civil law. The Greeks: Mesopotamian cultures: Native Americans: the Celts: and on and on and on...

So, the truth is (unless you view faith in a book as truth) civil law has been around longer than the christian view of god and the bible.

And in today's society, civil law is NOT based upon your religious doctrine. Our civil law is purposefully separated from your religious doctrine.

This will happen.

I will get with Ladyslipper tonight and caress her shoulders and whisper sweet things in her ears and then maybe she will change to be good like us. Even a good republican needs loving too.

SteveyDee, caress "his" shoulders, "his" ears, etc. Maybe you could take him to P-town!

It will happen Ted! It might take a while, but it will happen. As someone correctly pointed out, the young people have no problem with homosexuality. The bigotry problem will "age out."

tedlick and anne, you really, really need to do your homework on the bible.

No, 4himself2day, you do. "Never trust a man who has read only one book." Why don't you go find an article that says the Ten Commandments was the first moral code and get back to us.

Well Stevey...if your headed around the bases and have your sights set on hitting a home run make sure you use the missionary position, anything else would be just sac-religious!

Nope... read it before, studied it quite a bit, and as life went on... I totally lost faith in it.

The bible is a book of mythology. Nothing more, and nothing less... same as the Koran.

But I digress. Sorry. that's not the topic of this forum.

On the other hand maybe I better let Duckwa or Vichet handle that situation.

Tedlick,

Remember Judiasm? God was around long before Christianity I agree. But His laws were always being followed.

And it won't happen, because God won't let it. Couples that are civily unioned are only recognized as that. Nobody is really married in the eyes of God unless they participate in the sacrement of holy matrimony, which by the way is performed by the Catholic church, you know the one Jesus created..............and gays can' t married in the Church so we've really got nothing to worry about.

Windfuture, no need. If choosing a "bible-believing church" means joining a congregation full of self-rigteous hypocrits...sorry, but I'll pass.

I've gone to the same church since birth. My parents and grandparents were/are members and were married there. I was married there, and hopefully my children (who've also attended since birth) will choose to be married there. My family and I are quite confident in our beliefs.

My posts were only meant as a rebuttle against those that continue to preach the message of intolerance and hate by continuing the tiring argument that "homosexuality is an abomination."

Take the very word abomination for example;

For Jewish writers of Scripture, a man sleeping with another man was an abomination. But it was also an abomination (and one worthy of death) to masturbate or even to interrupt coitus (to halt sex with your spouse before ejaculation as an act of birth control). Why were these sexual practices considered abominations by Scripture writers in these ancient times?

Because the Hebrew pre-scientific understanding was that the male semen contained the whole of life. With no knowledge of eggs and ovulation, it was assumed that the man's sperm contained the whole child and that the woman provided only the incubating space. Therefore, the spilling of semen without possibility of having a child was considered murder.

The Jews were a small tribe struggling to populate a country. They were outnumbered by their enemy. It understandable why these ancient people felt it was an abomination to risk "wasting" even a single child. But the passage says nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today.

I think you've misunderstood the point of my post because I dont find it confusing at all. Even if the old holiness codes no longer apply to us as Christians, it's important to remember that in every age, people of faith were said to be responsible for setting moral and ethical standards that honor God. But we people of faith must be VERY careful NOT to allow our OWN prejudices to determine what those standards should be.

How is this confusing?

Ck this out folks: Should Same-Sex Marriages be Legalized? Pros & Cons

"The gay lifestyle is not something to be encouraged, as a lot of research shows it leads to a much lower life

expectancy, psychological disorders, and other problems. Studies show that homosexuals, for a variety of reasons,

have life expectancies of approximately 20 years less than the general population. Just like a lifestyle of smoking,

drinking, etc., unhealthy lifestyles should be discouraged."

http://www.balancedpolitics.org/same_sex_marriages.htm

Exactly Anne. This was taught in basic philosophy 101. I have no idea how this slips by people. Christianity was NOT first.

rfm555, Why not post the entire side of the debate than?

Ahhh, the cherry picking again...gothcha

Hey guys, check this out!

Is Heterosexual Marriage Wholesome?

"The heterosexual lifestyle is not something to be encouraged, as a lot of research shows it leads to a much lower life expectancy, psychological disorders, and other problems. Studies show that heterosexuals, for a variety of reasons, have life expectancies of approximately 20 years less than the gay population. Just like a lifestyle of smoking, drinking, carousing, etc., unhealthy lifestyles should be discouraged."

http://www.factoidsforidiots.com

Disgraceful!

These guys probably would have been in favor of interracial marriage in the 50s!

bwahahaha....right on Anne

bigfootinheels,

Man has been around much longer than the old testament teachings, though I'm sure that as a fundie, you cannot accept that.

And it will come. God can't stop it. Or at least, he won't.

* it is a sin to have another god before the christian/jewish god: but our constitution guarantees that we can worship any god of our choosing.

* it is a sin to lie, but unless done under oath, it is not against civil law.

* adultery is a sin, but is not against civil law.

* it is a sin to work on the sabbath, but again, it is not against our civil law.

Four simple examples (out of many) that prove our law is not based upon the christian doctrine. God didn't stop those. What makes you think he's going to stop this one?

This will happen.

Even worse, Americans have a 2-5 year lower life expectancy tha canadians.

Being American is unhealthy!

rfm,

good post. i have a family member that is gay, and I can testify to the fact that he always thinks the world is out to get him or looking at him with disgust. when in reality ordinary everyday people don't even know he's gay. he still feels stigmatized. it's unwarranted, I guess they all get sick like that?? who knows, i pray everyday for them. they're missing out on so much it's no wonder they're never really happy.

tedlick,

you're missing the point. civil law does not completely define what is right or wrong. human nature (which was created by God) defines it. do you respect or admire anyone who is adulterous or a liar?? do you think they are rightous?

that's the human nature in you. you can't get rid of it buddy, God put it in you as he has done for ages, even before his Son showed up.

From Wikipedia, see Urukagina (2380 - 2360 BC) - "Sumerian king and creator of what is sometimes cited as the first example of a legal code in recorded history." Urukagina was a compassionate king. "He exempted widows and orphans from taxes; compelled the city to pay funeral expenses (including the ritual food and drink libations for the journey of the dead into the lower world); and decreed that the rich must use silver when purchasing from the poor, and if the poor does not wish to sell, the powerful man (the rich man or the priest) cannot force him to do so...Urukagina's code is perhaps the first recorded example of government reform, seeking to achieve a higher level of freedom and equality."

Sounds like Urukagina's code was a wee bit tad more progressive than the Ten Commandments. I wonder when it all went wrong?

bigfoot, maybe he is reacting to the fact that he's been told that homosexuals are evil. perverted, dirty, disgusting, abominations, sodomites, and that list goes on, for most of his life if not all of it. Are these kinds of things not said going on everyday? I hope that someday he can accept himself, realize that he not these things and walk with his head held high.

I HOPE THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN THE LAST THING WE NEED IN MAINE IS AN OPEN INVITATION FOR QUEERS TO COME HERE TO GET MARRIED OR FOR ANY OTHER REASON. LETS KEEP MAINE CLEAN

Right and wrong exist differently for each and every person. This isn't about respect: it's about equal guarantees by the government.

I don't really care if you fundie types think it's sinful... or evil... or whatever you want to to call it.

My point all along is that this will happen.

Our civil law is not defined by religious doctrine.

This will happen, as it has happened for so many others throughout the history of our nation.

SteveyDee:

You've changed into what?

Also, Mainelyme doesn't travel well.

He's iin Manhattan and there's nowhere else to go!

Mainelyme

People, stop and think about it this country is secular, the 2nd amendment is there because the founders and the people didn't want to be told what to believe by sanctioning a federal religion. What if we stripped the Constitution of all civil rights and liberties, where would the US be?

The Ten Commandments were written down approximately 850 years after Urukagina's code. From WikiAnswers: Q. When were the Ten Commandments written?

Answers

* 1513 BC was the approximate date of the Exodus from Egypt. So the Ten Commandments were given to Moses shortly after that, and probably in the same year.

* The Ten Commandments were given in 1445B.C , according to the New Living Translation Study Bible .

lyndenm,

We'd be living under what these fundie types want: a christian "Taliban".

Does it say anywhere in the Bible why God felt it was necessary to supersede Urukagina's code more than 800 years after it was written?

(ahem, lyndenm, that's the First Amendment.)

Leave Maine alone..We have enough trouble here as it issssssss...

Sorry the 1st Amendment...

"On 2/26/09 at 03:12 PM, toby11 wrote:

I HOPE THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN THE LAST THING WE NEED IN MAINE IS AN OPEN INVITATION FOR QUEERS TO COME HERE TO GET MARRIED OR FOR ANY OTHER REASON. LETS KEEP MAINE CLEAN"

EXACLTY! IF WE LET GAYS MARRY EVERYONE WHO'S MARRIED WILL DIVORCE THEIR SPOUSE AND ENTER INTO A GAY MARRIAGE.

THE WHOLE STATE WILL BURN IN HELL, JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN CANADA AND MASSACHUSETTS: THEY'RE BOTH GONE, OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH FOR THEIR SINFUL WAYS!!!!!

you people are morons.

rfm: Consider the source for what you cut/pasted. I'm referring to the link within the paragraph on the balancedpolitics page.

chemaine -YOU GO GIRL!!!

You guys need to think with an open mind!!!!! Take a deep breath and think!!!!!!! Relaxxxxxxxxx and do it over again.......Think yellow snow.......

Tedlick,

You sound like a broken record. It takes away from the veracity of your argument. Stop saying it will happen. You may be a proponent of equal rights but you are not an intellect as such. This is what I am taking away from your comments.

Better luck next time................

Yes, bigfoot, your 2:12 post clearly illustrates your sophisticated level of reasoning. Hey, since you're a biblical scholar, would you kindly answer my question of 3:23 pm?

LOL.. that's pretty rich. Specially coming from you.

What I point out, sounding like a broken record or not is the truth.

Not the truth that fundie folks find in their bible and wish others would live by, but historical truth. And I put far more "faith" in that historical truth than in the bible that gets re-quoted over and over and over... but you don't seem to mind that.

There's really nothing else that needs be proven, but fundies keep on and on trying to preach this concept into the darkness from which they're so certain it comes. History shows that our government does not base how it treats its citizenry on the bible. Yet, people in these forums post the same old vitriol about abomination this and damnation that... when none of that changes a damned thing.

Whether or not you take anything away from my comments means nothing to me. The facts are what they are: and no amount of scripture will change that.

Others have posited the exact same opinion in here.

And it will happen.

DOES ANY OF THISSOUND FAMILIAR?

In the Introduction to their book, The Homosexual Agenda, Mr. Sears and Mr. Osten ask the question, “How far down the road have homosexual activists taken us toward their goal of unbridled sexual behavior and silencing of the church?” (p. 14) They then describe the four stages which lead to the moral demise of a culture, stating that the homosexuals, after quickly passing through the first two stages, are now finishing the third stage, (‘The Mobilization Stage’) developing a common language and strategy for presenting their case to the public.

“They [homosexual advocates] reframed the issue, taking it out of the moral realm, and presented it as a ‘human rights’ issue. Those who opposed their argument were deemed ‘hateful’ or ‘intolerant’ toward those that are ‘different’ - even though the group’s only identification is that of a chosen sexual behavior.” (p. 14) This strategy is working, because “once an issue has been redefined from a moral absolute to an individual choice, society starts to be reprogrammed that the arguments of the group are valid and therefore special privileges for previous ‘injustices’ and for the affirmation of the behavior occur.” This is stage four, “The Legitimization Stage.” (p. 14) The authors warn us that we have now reached stage four and they ask the question, “How has one to two percent of the population achieved so much success in transforming American culture and restricting religious freedom?”

Having grown up in Bangor, Maine in the extremely homophobic fifties I'd like to see this marriage law pass.

For the sake of young people growing up there today.

Maybe it will force less sexually secure individuals and groups to rethink their wrongful opinions, and come to the rightful conclusion that all people have a right to live on God's earth!

Gotta go feed the Raccoons in Central Park now.

Don't wait up for me as I'll be home long after dark.

Mainelyme

Hey guys: here is the thing:

If I crossed paths with one of you on the street, you wouldn't know me. Besides the ring on my finger, you wouldn't know, or probably care whether I was married or not. By the ring on my finger, you wouldn't know whether I was married to a male or a female. What's it to you?? Does passing me in the street affect your life in any way? No. If I was allowed to marry the consenting adult of my choice and I did, would you know about it? No. Would getting married affect my own day to day life? No...because the person with whom I would marry is already in my life and we have shared over a decade of time together. What would change are our rights to inherit, our spousal rights to property and money sharing, etc. As a taxpaying American citizen, I feel that I deserve these rights, just as you have them.

What might affect your life with the passage of this bill is the potental for increased revenue for your small business. If you are a lobsterman, you might be able to sell a few hundred more lobsters for some weddings on the coast. If your mother owns a giftt shop, she might have some more customers through her door trying to find the perfect wedding gift. If your friend Bob owns a snowmobile rental business up in the county, he might get some business from a wedding party or two. The list goes on. For a fiscally conservative state like Maine, this bill does exactly what we would all want a good legislative bill to accomplish...bringing more jobs and more revenue to Maine. We don't need a California think tank to show us that by making marriage attainable for all Mainers, there would be increased revenue from increased weddings around the state.

No one is trying to make a mockery of marriage or weddings, we are just trying to commit our lives to the person of our choosing! There is nothing wrong with that. Marriage is a state sanctioned union of two people.

This bill also works because it respects religious organization's rights to refuse to marry couples it does not deem marriagable...fine with me and with most people. I am not religious and would not seek out that path for my marriage ceremony. People have a right to religious freedoms. Please respect my right not to believe.

Religion is a choice. My great -great grandfather was the first Episcopal Bishop of Washington National Cathedral. My mother is still an Episcopalian. My sister is a Buddhist, my father a Quaker, and I am a non-believer. You can quote me scripture about the evils of homosexuality until the cows come home and it won't sway my views one way or another. I am a good, decent, moral human being who learned right from wrong by being raised in a strong family household. Morals are taught by family.

Someone on here keeps cutting and pasting about how homosexual marriage will be required to be taught in schools if it passes. Frankly, I don't remember taking any classes on marriage in schools when I was there. Marriage shouldn't be taught in schools period. It has no business there. I don't think schools should teach religion, but I sure remember hearing about God a lot! To each his own, I guess. If you want your children sheltered and to only be taught those things that you think are important, you should homeschool your children, plain and simple.

There is no getting around that this bill is fiscally good for the state of Maine. $60-100,000,000 is not a lot of money in the long term. But you are going to have to find some way to pay for your plastic bags somehow! Now there is legislation that I think is pointless!!

What are we coming to next? Same sex marraiges doesn't need to be approved to stay at a B & B. Anything for the mighty buck! You should be ashamed of wanting to be identified with this bill. God will not show His grace much more on America because and sorry to say, "As Maine goes, so goes the Nation". I truly hope not.

tedlick: We are people first.....don't get duped into that old boys' club here 1:16 PM...they try to make a guy feel "guilty" and "beat up" on him if he shows any compassion and "sensitivity"......god forbid.......I know you see through all that. You seem more like a man than some here, that's for sure.

Oh, there is a he/she here who does the same thing. They mistakenly perceive sensitivity as weak! I will tell you what is weak.....

seth, you turning this into monetary thing is repulsive at best.

4him2day: Its the topic of the article we're all commenting on

Mainelyme: Sure glad you have not overlooked the Raccoons. Good for you.

seththayer: Bravo!! 4:29 PM. Sounds like your parents can be proud to have brought up a son such as yourself. The morality some speak of here is sure a shabby thing!

4him2day:

You keep spouting in your cut and pastes that homosexuality is a choice....

I have first hand experience here and can tell you that I did not choose to be gay...who the hell would choose to be gay???

But the fact remains that I am gay and that I think I deserve a right to marry the consenting adult of my choosing as a taxpaying American citizen.

I do know that Religion is choice

Being a religous person is a conscious choice. I chose not to be a religious person after attending Sunday School every week as a kid and being confirmed in the Protestant faith as a high schooler.

My sister chose to follow Buddha

and my other sister chose to follow her inner spirit as a Quaker.

I know first hand that being gay is not a choice

and I know first hand that being religious is a choice

Without the benefit of cut and paste, can you refute?

bubye Ladyslipper...don't let the tollgate hit you in the butt on the way out

Mainelyme: 4:19 PM. So true...............we are all God's children. Our God is not a wrathful God, but rather a loving God.

Anne: did you hear LS is checking out homes in red states?!! Seems like a good fit, don't you think! Everybody , even he/she, deserves to be happy.

Chersully2000: You might be the child of a god, but my parents live in Florida.

tedlick: Unreal! at 4:05 PM that individual states that "you are not an intellect as such." Here we go with the projection again. Unbelievable.

lyndemn: I know you were kidding!! 3:52 PM. Ha ha.....

Not to bring everyone back on topic but I have an awsome idea! Why don't we legallize the drug trade? We could make Maine the drug capital of the world! The influx of drug dealers would boost revenue not only for Inn Keepers but for BIA, area restaurants & even the lobster industry. Drug lords from all over the world could fly in, take care of business & fly back to Columbia & Mexico w/crates full of lobsters. While we're at it, let's legalize prostitution. It seems to have worked miracles for Las Vegas' economy. Heck, why don't we just compromise all of our morals, legalize everything illegal &/or immoral just to make a profit! Wow, maybe I outta march to Augusta to make my sales pitch. We don't really need a nice, traditional place to live anyway. We want to be just like every other 'progressive' big state.

Sledman: What you are talking about is legalizing illegal things.

It's not illegal to be gay. All I want is the special rights that hetrosexuals enjoy

seththayer: I do not get what you mean. 4:54 PM. I was paying your parents a compliment for raising such a good, decent person. But I see what you mean......my parents were from Conn(mother) and Fla (father).....my post directed at Mainelyme was not what you think....guess you have not read other things I have written (incl today) or you would have gotten where I am coming from. We are all human beings whe deserve to be treated with great decency and humanity. You are relatively new here. ....Mainelyme in NYC often speaks of feeding the squirrels, etc in Central Park. He and I both love animals....that is all that is about. I will often say the animals are God's creatures too. This is often a "rebuttal" to all the mean-spiritness going on here. Mainelyme, anne, etc, "get it."

I can understand you being a bit "defensive" here (I would be too) but you, I think, misunderstood my message there. I am a child of my parents (now both deceased) of course.

anne: I think it is time to call the BDN which I am going to do right now! 5:00 PM.

I really have to go now.

The "wilds" of Central Park call.

Mainelyme

It's not illegal to be gay but the people of this state should vote if we want to legalize gay marriage. Augusta should not force feed the legalization of gay marriage on us based on some bull puckie study, probably funded by pro gay marriage interests, that insinuates legalizing gay marriage is a revenue stream. Just 'cause something may generate money doesn't mean it should be legal.

Mainelyme, only the finest green

dontdodo, you have gone too far.

I am a Christian woman who does not necessarily agree with the homosexual lifestyle from that point of view, but that being said I have no right to tell someone else how to live their life and what choices to make. To not have the same rights as someone else because it is the social norm and the way it always has been is wrong because that would mean that as a society we never grow or change. With this thinking the black people of America would still be slaves as this was the social norm but it certianly didn't mean it was the right way for a society to behave. Our country was founded on the right to make your own choices as long as it doesn't hurt others. My husband and I have been married for almost 31 years and I do not see how anyone else's marriage takes away from mine. What my relationship is is what I make it. I do not agree with a heterosexual couple living together without the benefit of marriage either as it goes against my believes but that is my personal belief. Our laws are not suppose to be based on any particular religious belief. If we start doing that where do we stop and what do we begin to outlaw? anyone who thinks differently? Isn't that what a lot of the middle eastern countries do? This is not the way for us to go. I fully support this bill and hope it passes because I can separate my believes from taking away someone else's choice. A lot of people quote the bible which is usually good but in this intance what noone has quoted is God has given mankind the right to choose for oneself and whether or not that person is "right with God" is between God and the person. We do not have the right to choose what someone believes or how they live, and therefore what laws protect their rights.

dontdodo: Are you so stupid that you don't know your IP address can be tracked? You're not-so-veiled threat could be taken very seriously.

"your"...that is. Gotta get "Word" to fix these things :)

BOO HOO,Did I upset someTHING. Not someone,but some-thing

nanax7: Thank you so much! !!You sound like a wonderful person and a true Christian. Thank you so much for what you wrote here.

anne: But didn't you read 5:00 PM.....they have been alerted.

anne: I guess my call was really listened to . The 5 PM comment has been deleted. If you did not see it, you did not miss anything! What a jerk.....way beyond a jerk. But he has since posted another comment (someone new???)

Mainelyme:4:19 PM....Me too!

Anne. 2:55 PM....Ha ha ha....as I said earlier, maybe they should mosey on down to Vassalboro to the new "coffee shop" there! (if you know what I mean!)

"The Catholic church, you know the one Jesus created.".....yikes.......wow......yikes!!! 2:49 PM .."and gays can't get married in the Church so we've really go nothing to worry about."!!! (what church??as if there is only one church!!!!!!!) Brainwashed, or what!!

Better start worrying then.....because it is coming.

anne: That individual is on thin ice. It was reported and deleted. But I think you were lucky enough to miss it. And I do not mean the one where you said they went too far.

lyndenm: Yes, to chemaine! It was that toby person who had it so wrong!

chersully: my crack about god 4:54pm, was just my sense of humor, nothing to worry about

18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming,even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.

21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

THE BIBLE FIRST JOHN CHAPTER 2

Wow... and they accuse me of sounding like a broken record...

Sledman: I don't think the legislature is going to base their vote on this study. However, regarding your comment about having Mainers vote on the issue...one can make the argument that having the majority vote to strip a a minority group of their rights is unconstitutional. The 14th amendment guarentees all Americans equal protection under the law. This is a bill for the government to pass, not the people.

For all those who are whining about how being gay is not "natural" or biological - open your eyes. Many animals exhibit homosexual behavior. Monkeys, dogs, dolphins, rodents ect. Were they abused as babies? I dont think so.

tedlick: Yes it will. Won't be that much longer either.

PabMainer: It was not half-hearted. It was authentic.....I really was impressed, regardless if my views on some things are different. But mostly, I try not to name names here either. Sometimes not such a good idea!

seththayer: I like what you said about "normal". Very subjective. Who is to say what is normal for someone else? I am kind of a night owl.....I know this guy (acquaintance) in Waterville who is up with the roosters everyday at 4 AM because he needs to see the sun rise everyday and likes to be up then.....but then he is wiped out by 7 PM. No thanks! So, really what is "normal"? Different things for different people (habits, routines,etc. etc.)

seththayer: Oh okay....I get it. I wasn't worrying, just wanted things not to be misunderstood.(which can easily happen here!) Thanks.

chemaine: 2:59 PM So true. I try and be very proactive about my health....walk a lot, eat a lot of fish and vegetables.....Japan had much better health rates than here, till they started eating more like we do in this country. I do love Chinese out (all that fish, rice and broccoli and other vegetables......mmmm) I am one of the lucky ones who never smoked. We really can cut down on some of our health risks. My grandmother lived to be 2 mos shy of her 100th birthday....I picked up on some of her good habits. It isn't always easy....but we can try.

Homosexuals force Theatre Director to resign

The equality and tolerance mob are still attacking law-abiding citizens:

Scott Eckern, the Sacramento theater director whose political donation in support of California's Prop. 8 ban on same-sex marriage has become a lightning rod in the debate over gay rights, resigned today. He said he wanted to protect the California Musical Theatre, his artistic home since 1984, from further controversy.

Word of Eckern's $1,000 donation -- publicly reported under state elections law -- spread rapidly on the Internet late last week, and Eckern drew criticism from some prominent stage artists, including Tony Award-winning composer Marc Shaiman ("Hairspray") and Jeff Whitty, the "Avenue Q" librettist, who wrote on his whitless.com website about his thoughts on how to deal with the fact that "Avenue Q" would be opening at California Musical Theatre in March.

"I am disappointed that my personal convictions have cost me the opportunity to do what I love the most," Eckern, the nonprofit stage company's artistic director since 2003, said in a written statement released today by a manager from Randle's firm. Eckern did not return calls Tuesday and Wednesday. In his statement, he said he decided to resign "after prayerful consideration." He apologized "for any harm or injury" taken from his support of Prop. 8, but also affirmed his right "to act upon my belief that the traditional definition of marriage should be preserved

don't believe the lie that it won't effect you, I have posted many examples today of how it will. If you haven't read them please scroll thru to my posts today. Tedlick is right, it will happen ....to us

cher, I don't know what's going on but the comment is back up there, see 5:08 pm.

Anne: No, that is not the one. I will be back in a min.

No Anne: not sure how to explain this. It is gone. It was at exactly 5 PM. You missed it. I called it in and it got deleted (from what I gather, another, or more, also called it in.) It was from a "new" person and not who you refer to! That was another one! Believe it or not, the one I called in was as bad. I hope you get what I am saying here.

Now Pab will be able to goto sleep. Did you mix a drinky poo with yellow snow yet Pab??? Good stuff.....

kateindfcity: Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Some of us reported one today, and his post seems to have been deleted.

anne: check out 5:45 PM. You missed the previous one from that individual at 5 PM.....it was deleted.

I like the Cape too, anne. And yes, it does have a lot of charm and nice shops and cafes,etc.

Okay....guess SteveyDee went thru it to get to the Pilgrim Monument. Guess I misunderstood that. Hope he liked it. I have not been that far out on the Cape and will have to go to see it one day.

4him: This guy was the artistic director of a theater. His donation was a slap in the face to a group of people who play a huge part in keeping theater alive. He knew this when he wrote the check.

The resulting outrage was appropriate. He made his choice and paid the price for his convictions.

Let me end with this quote from the NY Times:

"In his statement Mr. Eckern said that he would donate $1,000 to a gay-rights group, adding that he respected gay people, including a sister who is a lesbian."

And another....'Christian policeman, Graham Cogman, objected to being ‘bombarded’ at work by emails and posters promoting events such as Gay History Month. He responded to the ‘politically correct’ campaign by sending emails to colleagues quoting Biblical texts suggesting that homosexual sex was sinful. But he faced accusations of homophobia and a series of disciplinary hearings, culminating 12 days ago in his sacking by Norfolk Police for misconduct.

The twice-commended officer said yesterday: ‘I am totally devastated. It was a job I loved. This is destroying me and my family.’ Mr Cogman, 50, accused the police service of becoming so sensitive to the rights of gays that Christians could no longer safely express their views.

Speaking at his home in Sea Palling, Norfolk, which he shares with his wife Elaine, 46, and his two children, Mr Cogman said: ‘In the service in general there is a feeling of fear. There is a definite bias against faith – any faith – if it takes a critical view of homosexual sex. The easy option for me would have been to keep quiet but when there is such prejudice towards one point of view, how can that be right? That doesn’t sound like equality and diversity to me”.

Mr Cogman, backed by the Police Federation, is appealing against his sacking and is planning to take his force to an employment tribunal next year, funded by the Christian Legal Centre. At the misconduct hearing, overseen by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, a panel found that Mr Cogman had ignored an order banning him from using the police computer system and had failed to treat a colleague with politeness and respect.

There appears to be no misconduct hearing for the homosexual colleagues who harassed Cogman for his Christian views.

This is coming people.

tedlick, seththayer: Yes, the day is coming.....what we have been speaking of. Stay strong.

Yah hetros are really giving the sanctity of marriage a good rep with the 50% divorce rate - mind your own business and leave the little buggers alone.

On this afternoon's news report Jeff Tuttle said they'd have a complete update on the Inn Keepers addressing the legislature this afternoon.

Stock up on screen ink and be here!

Mainelyme

Time for some DONUTS

Hey i think I will take the Old Lady there and while she is sleeping it off the next morning go down to the slots and pick up a couple of hookers and be back in time for a little lunch.

Jeff Tuttle: yeah, I had to leave him a message this afternoon....regarding a certain post. When I checked next, it had been deleted!! Sometimes it pays to call.....

Jeff Tuttle was wrong.

There was no update on this bill in the legislature.

Let's take this discussion over to today's letter column

I already started it.

Maineyme

JEFF TUTTLE sounded overblown by the proportion of responses

Innkeepers would probably benefit if polygamy was legal in Maine.

So should that be allowed also? Hey equal rights for all!

What if someone wants to marry their sibling?

Where is the line drawn?

ckc1996

You must be pretty hard up!

Mainelyme

Mainelyme, it's a fair question....where exactly is the line drawn?

Could you please answer the question?

I have to wonder...

In all these cases that 4Him2day has pasted into this forum, how would they view things if it were based on race or sex other than sexual identity. Would it be so sad if the theater director had donated that money to a white supremacist organization and the public forced his resignation? Something tells me it wouldn't be viewed the same.

Am I the only one that sees a horrific double standard here where this person is calling to be able to single out and look down on people who have made no choice to be what they are, while stating that they should be able to use their CHOICE to look down on people and have it protected by law?

Surely I can't be the only one that sees some really sick thought patterns going on here.

tedlick, as repulsive as I find the white spremacists to be, It is their right in america here in america to express their beliefs within the law of our country. You are the one with the double standard.

Then people are free to stand against christians in the same way.

And their right to do so should be protected.

Tedlick, the thing is, 99.9% of the readers skip over those post as soon as they see the username...even those who happen to agree. The post are often redundant and too long to keep anyone's interest after the first three lines.

Yes tedliick, you are a prime example of a Christian basher, you do it all the time and many a good man has died to give you that right, and I would also defend your right to do it.

ckc: If I may answer that question, the line is drawn with each situation that is presented. In this case, the issue is marriage equality for consensual same-gender couples. Period. That's the discussion at hand. It has nothing to do with incest or polygamy. Those are issues for their proponents to argue at another time, if they wish.

Agree. seacoast

Ah and kasdyln is also clairvoyant, how nice.

I'm surrounded by christians on a day to day basis, and I don't "bash" any of them. They're not promoting their religion as the basis for decisions of civil law and government policy.

In addition, I read fear in your words on these posts. The same type of fear felt by a white bigot in 1960. This "it will happen... to us" mentality demonstrates that fear perfectly. You somehow fear that the homosexual community is going to take over the world and run off with your sons and daughters if the government recognizes them as equal citizens. This is the same type of thing spouted in the pre-civil rights era.

I see no difference between christians, jews, or muslims. Religion is religion, and you're free to worship as you feel (without harming others). It just has no place in the civil law of our nation.

Opinion Opinion, what does the Ruler of the Universe have to say about it? Average live span of someone in the Gay lifestyle - 45 years - average lifespan of someone that is not Gay? - 75. He has made His point.

Yes, Alexander, many of you feel that way.

But it has no place in civil law.

This will happen.

Really good conversation going on here. The comments are intelligent.

You are right there is a fear factor. But there is a reason for it. I have a question? Most parents will not bring up the subject of sex with their kids until if they ask questions, the parent feels it's time, age appropriate, or the child sees something that forces the parent to talk about sex. A good parent has a pretty good idea when a child is ready.

What concerns me is that there are some who use our school systems or freedoms we have in this country to force the issue in front of children with little regard to the child and whether they are ready or not. That should be everyones concern.

seacoast: Right-on. They go off on tangents to try and throw off the subject at hand.

tedlick: 9:11 AM......Yes, the fear thing. If one is really secure and strong in what they believe, they do not have to pummel others with it. But don't you see......the false sense of superiority !

Elizabethann,

That's an issue to take up with local school boards: it really has nothing to do with the government extending equal guarantees to all citizens.

I'm no fan of the public school system, but having no children, I leave those policies and decisions up to those who do.

tedlick: It will happen....regardless of these peoples' fears and prejudices.

Elizabethean: I do not think children should be fed information (sexual or otherwise) until it is "age-appropriate" either. When they are young and ask questions, the answers should be tailored to their level of understanding, maturity,etc.

But I see this as a separate issue than that which is being discussed here. (which is fine; fine that you brought it up.) As an adult, I have no interest in what goes on in an intimate relationship between two consenting adults. That is none of my business and of no interest to me. I believe we all have a right to be happy, fulfilled people and not make judgments about another's personal choices . It is about being fair and treating others as we would wish to be treated. Putting oneself in another's shoes,etc.

tedlick: 8:34 AM

No, you surely are not the only one to see that....and yes, freedom of speech. But we KNOW how the vast majority in this country view white supremacists. We would really hope and pray that that kind of thing was in the past....and gone for good. Hate.....pure hate.....and EVIL!!

tedlick you're like talking to a young child with a huge chip on his shoulder. I have nothing to fear, I know who's in control ultimately. You my friend are the scared one. You want to have a leg on each side of the fence not quite sure which side to jump on. Its easy to make statements here to get the majority on your side. Thats not a real conviction in what you believe, thats cheap faith. I to am surrounded by different believers in my workplace and I don't share unless I'm asked to. This post is for expressing our different views so don't compare the two. And as elizabeth said, being concerned is far different from fear. As a responsible citizen I to get to voice my concerns as you do.

Chersully (excuse the length please!) …asking this of you but am sure many others will chime in… only directing to you because you have been the recipient of most of my poor, distasteful and condescending comments here…I am sure that all of us at one time or another have hit the send or post button and then regretted doing so, but as is often said what is done is done and we must live with the consequences…My point finally, I will stand corrected if need be, but believe that in any of my past comments I have never stated things using a vulgar, profane, racist, homophobic, I am better than another, overly obscene manner as some here often do, and like you I object to it. But, I do see times when some post things in this manner and depending on who it is, we seem to almost congratulate them with “great post”, could not have said it better myself and we encourage with a gentle “way to go response”. Then on the flip side, when someone who grates us the wrong way or one who has different views than some here posts a comment in the same distasteful & disgusting manner we jump all over them, condemn them, criticize and threaten to report them and call the BDN. Where is or where does your standard for morality for yourself and the ethical treatment of others lie and come from? I think this is the underlying problem that is causing such debate amongst the various topics addressed in these and other blogs. No one group or way is recognized as being the “ruler” whereby we measure the character and behaviors of ourselves and another. If I am to read you correctly, you have a double standard based upon your perception or likeness or dislike of another. This seems to be the theme for many here believing this way, or what they believe seems to depend on the weather, the economy, their job or in most cases whom is in control politically. What is the standard or basis for our morality and ethical behavior in America and the world today? Some will say it’s the Government, Constitution, The Bill of Rights, the original charters drafted by the earliest of our colonists, Civil Law, the Bible or Evolution and Science. But truly, what standard have we applied to measure whether one can be in society and not be a threat to others and what can we do or not do as a civilization? If someone’s standard of morality and their ethical treatment of others is contingent on things that are every changing, i.e. who at the time is in the White House, then we will continue on this slippery slope of moral decay and inward destruction every four to eight years, crazy! Men are responsible for the Government and Civil Laws that some here claim have no connection to the Bible or any other standard of measurement. So, where did this Governing Law come from? If we are to follow Civil Law according to man’s view then you had better hope to Jesus that “your” man is in control politically or else suffer the consequences…some claim their faith is in Evolution & Science, but beyond basic existence where does the standard for life come from in regards to this scientific hypothesis and “Big Bang Theory”? This is not just an American lack of morality but world wide issue. Heaven forbid if I adhere to a Civil Law in America and then want to go visit say Canada who has a totally different set of Laws governing morality and behavior…one mistake there and I would be thrown in jail… I could ramble on but, thanks for reading and I look forward to your response….again, sorry for the length!

tedlick: We "are on your side" because we also feel the way you do about human rights and decency and fairness. We , unlike some others, are not puppets and can think for ourselves. This is, as you know, not some bandwagon thing. I think most of us know how we think and feel, and are simply sharing and appreciating and yes, sharing concerns and viewpoints. But no coercion here, that is for sure.

Have a good day.

pabmainer, has anyone ever told you you have the gift of peacemaking.

Cheap faith is faith in something outside yourself. I have complete faith in myself. You have shown obvious fear with statements like "it will happen... to us", like some monster will rise up out of all of this and come after christians with a flaming sword. Nobody's trying to do anything to you. You can continue to speak against homosexuals all you want, and from my perspective, keep them out of your home and businesses too if that's what you want. But the government is not a private citizen and should be held to a higher standard.

As long as religious doctrine and our government policy / civil law remain separate, I don't see where anyone living an independent life has anything to fear... worry about... or be concerned about, if that's how you choose to word it.

When those two mix, then we all have something to fear.

PabMainer: I am off work today and now off to have breakfast out with someone and then actually a movie. A "vacation" day, but lucky for you (ha ha) I will most likely be back online late this afternoon or evening. I have read your interesting post quickly as I am pressed for time, but will definitely read it again later when I get back and can then respond in a less hurried way.

By the way, I am a person of religion, but also really appreciate science (love vichets,etc. posts on this) and do believe in evolution. There is one individual here, however, who I will not address directly and do not read his posts for the most part. And I am not going into why here as I just do not want to keep that going.

Have a nice day.

chersully2000,

Thanks, and in all honesty, I'm not really looking for people to be "on my side"... especially in an open yet "anonymous" forum such as this.

Over the centuries that we've played house on this rock, our government has consistently changed the fabric of civil law to insure equitable treatment for all citizens, not just white-land holding-protestants as it once was. Our civil law has changed over time without the will of the people being involved in the least (abolishing slavery, women's suffrage, civil rights and the end of Jim Crow laws, interracial marriage, abortion). I see this as being no different.

I've little faith in most of what my government does, and I never seem to see things voted my way (I'm a fiscally conservative libertarian by nature). In this instance, as in the instances I noted above, I do in fact have faith that our government will end its discrimination of homosexuals with regard to marriage. Individuals can continue to discriminate, as that is the nature of having liberty: and they'll live with the consequences of such discrimination.

So when I enter these forums and find people posting scripture and religious fervor, I don't get it. It will make no difference in the end. Unless the goal is to save the souls of the "sinners" posting here, it almost seems like religious masturbation.

There are "extremists" in every walk of society. You usually see them when something is brewing underneath the surface that requires society to adjust. Many people I know have relatives who are in the homosexual lifestyle. I have relatives who are. They are great people. Then you have have the "extremists" in California who gathered in front of a church who were pushing, shoving, and spitting at this old lady who was carrying a crucifix. It is not a true picture of the homosexual community and I know that. Some people who saw that think it is a blanket picture for the whole homosexual community.

The reason why Martin Luther King was successful in bringing to light the plight of the black American was because of the way he did it He did it in an organized civil manner. He did it for the good of his people and this country. Basic human God given rights. Freedom to work, raise family, worship according to ones beliefs. Martin Luther King was not taking something away from society.

What I have a problem with is we are we alltering the definition of something, which is marriage between a man and woman, something that has been established for thousands of years? And why should society as a whole be forced to do that because of our religious beliefs?

ckc1996

People have been known to get married to get away from their brothers and sisters.

Psychiatrists say that first crushes are always on other family members as a young inexperienced person has only been surrounded by immediate family members and doesn't know anyone outside of the family circle.

When they get older and more out into the world they meet others and then form unions based on mutual attractiveness etc:

If you haven't gotten past the crush on an older relative syndrom by this time, and you're old enough to have been out in the world and met others then I'd say you have a very serious case of arrested developement, and should seek psychiatric treatment no matter what your gender or that of your favored sibling is.

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

New York, New York

Elizabethann,

If we can alter the nature of federal law to extend the same privileges of "marriage" to "civil unions", I'll bow out as gracefully as my aging contour will allow. To me, it's not a matter of words, but a matter of treatment from our government.

Mainelyme ...why do you always resort to these comments. People try to have a civilized conversations and you always come up with these stupid below the belt comments. Can you have a civilized conversation with anyone? You cause alot of the division in these comment sections. You are and instigator.

tedlick, stay on topic!...just kidding had to say that...don't ever bow out of a discussion you feel strongly about and I do agree with your post above, we need to find ground that treats each other equally...In regards to your aging contour, I don't even want to go there....anyhow, I need to buy a new computer, have a several year old H/P that came all in one box from the foreign mart...would like to have a laptop w/at least 17" or larger screen...need wi-fi also so I can roam around and not be stuck in the office all the time...anyone with suggestions it would be appreciated....

tedlick and PabMainer have a very valid point. This whole issue is about equal treatment not the word ' marriage'. it is the word that has been used by both sides but it isn't the issue. Gays and lesbians just want to be treated as equal.

SharonFaith could you explain what you mean. It could be taken in different ways. What do you mean by exploitation and who are 'they'. Sometimes it isn't what is said but what is not clearly said that brings about miss-communication.

Thanks for making it clear.

You judgmental biggots need to f