Baldacci going to the mill, this will make it alot better!

Maybe he will stop in for a cold one.

ZF Lemforder Corporation announced their Brewer plant closure a month and a half ago and we have not heard a word from the Governor. When is he going to come to Brewer and deal with our job losses?

OVER A HUNDRED YEARS FOR BAILEYVILLE TO GET NOTICED...

Good start would be get rid of the union. Inflated union wages make for bad business-like it or not.

KateQ22003, Just break out a camera and he will show up. Have babies ready for pictures too. Politicians love that.

On 3/9/09 at 10:40 AM, faithenuff wrote: Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

To all of the mill workers and their families who have lost their jobs, my heart goes out to you at this uncertain time in your life. I too was born and raised in Washington County and had to leave the State of Maine to make a better life, finacially speaking, for my family. I miss the people I left behind. I miss the beautiful lakes, the coastline the slower pace of life. On the other hand I now am grateful for 2 great paying jobs for my husband and myself. We enjoy health benefits (health, dental, vision, medical savings), employer retirement contributions and are surrounded by people who are enjoying the same way of life. I don't have to state the obvious, it is a much more positive and hopeful environment, which is nice to be a part of. We are given a choice of where we choose to educate our daughters. They have an abundance of opportunity for activities, sports teams, etc. And finally, we have made wonderful new friends. Our "old friends" will never be replaced, but I have learned through this difficult transistion that there are good people everywhere you go. So, I say to you all...trust the journey. Hold tight to your families and memories of your time in Washington County and believe in a brighter tomorrow. Good luck! ~Heidi Hicks

The governor said nothing we didn't already know this morning. The mill is not (yet?) permanently closing. I know the news doesn't like to talk about the temporary aspect of this because it's not sensational but as of right now, it is temporary.

There was life before Domtar and there will be life after if this becomes permanent. I'll take Washington county over the rat race I left behind any day. I have a choice of where my children are educated. There isn't a lack of activities if you want to get up and look for them, there are plenty of sports teams involved with and outside of the school. Heidi, you personally might not find anything hopeful or positive here but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Before you pack us up and move us out to your way of life (no thank you, BTDT), let's see what happens.

Outdoorwriter, I am sorry if I offended you. I certainly know what a special a place Washington County is for so many of us. If you have the resources of time and money to wait out this closing I say good for you, however many people do not have that option. So for the ones who are forced to leave they should know there are good things outside of Washington County too...

Maybe Baldacci should go see the 2 gold balls the basketball teams just brought home because after everyone moves away there probably won't be enough kids left to form a basketball team.

look at the retraining program the last batch got at the taxpayers expense.

why is it if a company folds and lays of people the state walks in with all these programs

but if a company only lays of a couple people the ex-emplyees aren`t eligible for anything but unemployment.

the mill has always paid high wages and now the state will give the an education too on the dime of those

that aren`t making but minimum wage.

Lobstarok, your overly-simplistic observation "inflated union wages make for bad business" would seem to indicate a lack of knowledge on your part concerning what has/is transpiring in the paper industry.

Have you heard of "the global economy"? Are you aware that North American companies like Fraser, Domtar, GP and the like are now competing with paper making companies headquartered in places like South America, Chile, specifically; Taiwan, China and other S.E. Asian companies? Are you aware of the disparity in the standard of living between countries like the United States and Canada and those mentioned in the previous sentence?

Don't forget history, unionization arose from the need to confront abuses of the workforce by management in the industrial age of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. If people as individuals would follow the Golden Rule, there would be no need for unions, but alas they don't.

I believe I have seen you post on the BDN online before and for some reason I think you are from the mid-coast area, maybe Camden/Rockport, but not Washington County. I am sure you have heard the old adage "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all". Please follow that and don't make postings that will antagonize people who are going through a traumatic period in their life, show a little sympathy.

Hey Baldy, all your talk talk talk don't do anything. Your way too late. This mill has been dieing for 20 years. Looks like the Bush Depression has finally finished it off. Making paper is a dead industry except for toilet paper and not every mill can produce toilet paper. Suggest you people in Washington County move out of Maine as soon as possible. The Midwest and Southwest got the jobs drilling for gas and oil.

Actually that would be Hancock. And part of my job is going into companies to help them be more efficient in what they do. I have been doing this in a Global manufacturing enviroment for the last 20 years. From east coast to west coast and parts of western Europe. As there are many things that contribute to these very complex issues, The biggest, fattest pig of all are todays unions. Yes you are correct in that late 19 and early 20 there was a need, however the unions of today are just as bad as the corporations. 25 years ago I graduated from SMVTI in South Portland. Many of the students at that time wanted to go to the jobs at SD Warren, Saco Defense, etc as they were union and paid more for the same job. It is a sad fact that the actual labor rate in union vs non-union is so much higher-and I do not mean the actual per/hr. You only need to look to Detriot to see the latest. I have seen this on a smaller scale many times and yes it really hurts folks, but as I stated in my first post "Inflated union wages make for bad business-like it or not.

" Half the reason we are in this stupid mess is from the old adage you mention. Perhaps if unions got a kick in the a@@ years ago we would not be in this place

lobstarok

wow, it really seems that you know what you are talking about when it comes to unions in washington county. Why don't you send me your business card so I can hand it over to Domtar. There's never going to be a better time to hit the union. $8.00 or $9.00 an hour is suffficent for anybody in washington county. we have them where we want them, let's make them crawl.

send business card to, p.o.Box 235 Baileyville Me. 04694

An Injury to one, is an injury to All. Workers of Maine UNITE!

lobstarok:

surely you jest, "the biggest, fattest pig of all are today's unions". Let me throw a few names at you, how 'bout the good ol' Enron trio of Kenneth Lay, Jeff Skilling and (fast)Andy Fastow or Tyco's Dennis Kozlowski, World Com's Bernie Ebbers or Adelphia's John Rigas. "In 1965, U.S. CEO's at major companies made 24 times a worker's pay, by 2004, CEO's earned 431 times the pay of an average worker" AFL-CIO's www.paywatch.com. "From 1995 to 2005, average CEO pay increased five time faster than that of the average worker." Delinquency of the CEO's, Washington Post, July 13, 2006.

you state "actual labor rate in union vs. non-union is so much higher, and I do not mean the actual per/hr. What do you mean? You also state, "you only need to look to Detroit to see the lastest". Latest what? I was watching the ABC World News tonight which reported that UAW Ford employees had agreed to concessions.

To take all that is happening with the United States being drawn/forced into today's global economy and place the majority of the blame of it's negative consequences on the union movement is absurd. BTW, what is SMVTI?

No worries folks of Washington County, Gov. Baldacci has a gps system so he will be able to find the mill. And secondly, don't worry about the mill, he will come and save you just like he did the Eatern Paper Mill in Brewer. No racino for you guys down there though if the mill does end, he doesn't want to cut into his hometowns profits!!

knightscross,

What line of work do you do that you know so much about the paper industry and that you feel you are so secure in.

Why don't you and Richard37 be more specific on your jobs so when it is your turn in the barrell we can be as supportive of you as you have been of us. Oh thats right people born and bred in Washington county are not as ignorant and noncaring as people like you.

As far as moving out of Washington County, Come move me, as I have said before my family has been here, as has many other mill families, since before the Revolution.We have weathered more storms than this and not complained, you and your other Psychic Vampire friends need to feed of some other poor souls, because we don't give up easy In Washington County and we are the home of Psychic Vampire Slayers.

You Should visit our beautiful area sometime.

For people who don't understand why I am talking to the autho of Why Washington County should roll over and die" like this just look at some of the comments written to us " Arrogant Mill Workers".

Johnny Hide you have to admit Lobstarok has a point if it wasn't for the Union's we would not be in this place, we would be back to sweat shops.

Why is it, Oh Genius Slobscrook that you people always blame everything onto the Union's when we have been given concessions on new Contracts and Management just keeps adding that money to their salaries and giving themselves bigger and better bonuses.

I am beginning to think most of you guru's of new job placement are just another brance of the Rich Peoples kids who would love to see the Mill stay down and have the Dam pulled out. Move all of us useless humans out of here and let washington County be a Nature Preserve.

Give it up, every house here has at least 5 guns at a minimum, we are all crazy, and believe that the United States should be the way our forefathers made it, not what you Rich Btrats want to make it. Just how did your family make its money anyway?

Lobstarok,

Here's a thought, the reason non- Union and Union wages are so much different is that we have a right to negotiate our wages and Non-Union jobs have to rely on their employer caring for the people that work for them.

We all know how that works out, thats why there was a need for Unions in the first place.

Lobstarok it’s not the union that has caused this, the union and non-union mills are no different in wages, and a matter of fact before we became Domtar GP had several mills that were non-union and they were paid a higher wage for being non-union.

The reason companies are going under are because of environmental rules that countries like China, and some South American countries that don’t follow the same strict rules that cost billions of dollars a year across the United States.

Unions have no power per say 30+ years ago in the paper industry, what power they do have is in the safety of the employees, and to make sure they have a safe work area. They do negotiate a contract but in the end the company has the final say, not the unions.

Get informed by reading a labor agreement, not hear say. Ignorance is no excuse for posting things on here, get informed before saying something you have no idea about what you’re saying. The paper industries in trouble because people want to pay 1960 prices for products, and yes you can pay those prices for paper made in a country like China, and maybe that ream of paper you buy at that price may have cost someone their life as there are no humane working laws or environmental laws.

Don’t blame the union for something, which is not their fault, blame global markets for selling a product that will in the end cost you jobs and money in the end.

You don’t think once China gets a global foothold on our manufacturing jobs that prices won’t go up, once all manufacturing jobs and plants are gone in America you will pay more for foreign imports when that happens.

Kylie,

You have no clue; you speak about something you have no idea about. The program you mentioned has a name and its not paid for by the state. Its called a TAA and TRA the program was started during the Clinton administration when NAFTA was signed into law. It was a plan to say no jobs will be lost to foreign trade, and the only way you get into a program is if your job was lost to because of the Trade deal.

I am sick of seeing uneducated people blast these mill workers that have worked hard for every cent they make, and on top of that they paid higher taxes than most just to see that tax money given to under privileged people like you kylie, but never did they complain about you or anyone that needed food stamps or any other type of help. Mill workers have always given, I remember every Christmas there was the tree at the main gate where workers would take tags with a childs wish, and age sizes and they would buy them these gifts because these men and woman have big hearts.

The reason is simple these men and woman worked Christmas, their children’s birthdays, they missed them playing sports, and for what. Well some of you out their think its greed, but reality is these mill workers paid a much higher tax rate than most, because of state programs to help people in need.

These mill workers are not getting state funded programs, they will receive TAA and TRA look it up and become more educated before making dumb ass statements you have no clue about.

If you ask I will tell you I know this because I was on the negotiating committee in August of 2007 when the first group of workers were laid off, and I to lost my job. But I will graduate this year with a college degree, and I am proud to say I worked hard for it, and I never lost a thing I owned…

As for anyone saying BUSH did this, Clinton and others are also to blame because Free Trade isn’t free, look up how many jobs have been lost to it, and look up who is the real person behind Free Trade.

"The paper industries in trouble because people want to pay 1960 prices for products, and yes you can pay those prices for paper made in a country like China"

This comment is a self serving view not based in anything but yesterdays logic. Yes of course people want to pay less for paper but at the same time paper consumption is down worldwide. Even moreso in industrial countries. Its the electronic age... Newspapers are going away. there have been 5 closings in the last two weeks alone. Book sales are down. Take a look at Borders. There are fewer racks of books spread wider apart with more filler items to make the place look busier. Magazine subscriptions are down. The post office lost $5.0 billion dollars in the last quarter of 2008 because mailers and advertisers dont use as much paper anymore. A friend of mine teachers a biology course with no textbooks but instead gives online sources. Business prints reports and proposals for each other on CD or e-mail wth a .pdf This dynamic is just going to grow.

I think blaming China or any other country for a major decline in US consumption of paper by you union folks makes you sound a bit ethnocentric. By the way the US manufacturing sector is not losing to the rest of the world as you think it is. The US produces more goods than the next seven countries combined. China only accounts for 9% of the world total. The argument that the other guy is to blame sounds a lot like whining to me.

China is and continues to build new paper mills that make these mills in Maine look like toys, if there is no market why are they building new larger mills. Simple they have a huge market, AMERICA!

I am in college, and we use text books that weight several pounds, not to mention the hand outs in class everyday. I emailed a paper to one teacher and she was mad as hell, so informed me that I will print my papers, and bring them to class.

Today I recieved 2 catalogs in the mail LL Bean and Bass Pro Shop.

I also recieved my 401k statement from Vangaurd today 11 pages of paper in all, only 4 had full text the others were about 3 lines of information. Paper has been used as much today as ever before.

Some facts & figures about current printing in our sites:

Users in IT-User Services computing sites used 2.3 million sheets of paper during the 2001 fall semester. That amount is up almost 400,000 sheets from the fall of 2000.

30% increase in costs of consumables from 1999-2000 and 2000-2001.

6.2 million pages printed from 2001-2002.

Approximately 25% of the paper use was unnecessary (wasted).

Although printing is necessary, unfortunately a lot of waste is generated—on an average week in the Smith Hall computing site, 120 pounds of paper ends up in the recycling bins. That's 12,000 sheets of paper per week—an equivalent of 600,000 sheets of paper per year, which equals approximately one quarter of the total (2.3 million sheets) printed per semester!

Plus China and other Countries use American pulp and wood chips to make paper

actual labor rate in union vs. non-union is so much higher, and I do not mean the actual per/hr. What do you mean. What I mean is the actual cost per hour that the company pays to produce a product. This rate takes into consideration all benefit costs. If you still don't get it here is a simple example:

Non-Union Company A Pays the worker $15/hr+1/2 medical insurance+50% match on a 401k or whatever type lets say that comes out to $25/hr cost to do business. Union Company B Pays the worker $18/hr+Full medical maybe dental with a deductable, full retirement or pension That cost comes out to $40 or $45/hr. Plus in company B you have the mentality of the union. Now what I mean by that is something like the mentality of my job is secure so I don't have to apply myself like the guy in company A In case I'm losing you here let me share my own experience with you regarding this. I was going into company b with 2 other engineers to do an install. I had made prior arrangements to be there tuesday morning at 8am with a guy named joe. I arrive tuesday morning and no joe. joe decided to go bird hunting for the morning. so I go to joes boss who sets me up with fred. fred however states it isnt his job to do this so i have to wait for joe (what he needed to do amounted to a simple task) the boss guy says that is right and I must wait for joe. Here I am paying for 3 people to stand around. Now this bs is eating up my profits. my point is this never would happen at company a and they will be around

long after company b is history. Is this always the case-No it is not, but it is often enough to kill industry-just look around. All I can speak from are my experiences in the field and as a small company owner.

"I am in college, and we use text books that weight several pounds, not to mention the hand outs in class everyday. I emailed a paper to one teacher and she was mad as hell, so informed me that I will print my papers, and bring them to class."

Do your textbooks come with CDs'? If they dont... they will.

Your teacher who had a problem with the e-mail is not like the college instructors I know... She will either get with the program or ... oh yeah union tenure.... hhmmm!

I do not doubt usage is up at the end consumer with local printers it only makes sense. As it isnt being printed further up the chain. I do not dispute your numbers at Smith Hall..... But book production numbers by publishers are way down...in the first 6 months after the release of the Amazon Kindle in Nov 2007 paper book sales from Amazon dropped 5%. Electronic sales more than made up those lost sales. The more popular Kindle2 was released Feb 24th.

RBC Capital Markets projects a full-year 2009 newsprint price of $630/tonne, down 10% from the $700/tonne 2008 average. “Structural adjustments by publishers, including the elimination of whole sections or even a full day's edition, will have a large impact,” according to a Feb. 24 report.

On Feb. 24, MarketWatch.com reported that the San Francisco Chronicle might be the latest in a line of newspaper casualties from the economic recession, as The Hearst Corp. said on Tuesday it would close or sell the publication if costs are not slashed within weeks.

The report also noted that Philadelphia Newspapers LLC, publisher of the Philadelphia Inquirer, and the Journal Register Co. each filed for bankruptcy protection over this past weekend.

Last month, Hearst said it would shut down its Seattle Post-Intelligencer if a buyer is not found.

Recently the Rocky Mountain News shut down.

The last remaining asset of the New York Times is the building they own in Times Square NYC. The upper floors was recently put up for sale in order to make a loan payment due in April.

WELLS, Maine (AP) - Direct marketing printer RR Donnelly says it's shutting down its operation in southern Maine because of the failing economy. The closure, expected by the middle of June, will put 370 people out of work.

Your 401K statement by mail is a silly thing. You can go online at Vanguard and sign up for electronic statements as I do.

I have been paying my bills online since 1998. Check production printing is way down as is the production of envelopes at the mills.

203 billion Total mail volume processed in 2008, in pieces. This is down from 2007. The size of the catalogs you are receiving are smaller than previous years. Catalog Mailers also report a decline in the numbers being mailed.

The writing is on the wall...

bob01081969

I have never taken public assistance

and who is paying for the TAA and TRA programs, the tax payers

And how can you connect free trade to slowing economic times and say that is why you lost your job

You got your college education at the expense of others and got paid to do it on top of it

People went to Bangor daily to the truck driving school, it was paid for , they got mileage and also a check to live off of.

Now who pays for that.

people got over paid all these years at these mills and think the world owes them now

Go out there and stop wasting taxpayers money, Stand on your 2 feet

also stop singing, feel bad for me and look at me now, I`m going to have to actually work for a living

But not until I suck everything I can off the taxpayers

These layoffs are no different then a single person getting laid off.

Why should they be treated any different.

Everyone has to support a family

Can anyone say Treehugging Barking Moonbat $30 for driving a fork truck sign me up.,$20 for leaning on a broom I'll do it. OH YA. I forgot these uninformed wages are not based on anything. As for wages, yes the states paper mill workers are some of the highest paid workers iin the State pumpiing MILLIONS of dollars into the local areas and yes for every one mill job it supports 4 jobs out in the community so it's not 300 who are going to be looking for work it will be 1200 families looking for work.. It's going to be the young family just starting out with both mother and farther working two jobs just to earn a liviing wage who would love to have a better job so they wouldn't have to put there kids in day care just to work pay check to pay check and its not only Mainers on the younger side but the older workers also The truth of the matter without the Paper mill Washington County will die because there is nothing else here to absorb the people and that is just what Treehugging Barking Moonbat groups like ( the most recent ) Save the Bay headquarted in Eastport ,Maine want. No work no people except those who will work for minum wage if that Looking back in just the last few years of how many industry projects that have been defeated and by whom they were defeated by that could keep the Mainers in this county going is realy sickening.A realy good example The City of Eastport has spent over $100,000 ( not approved by the voters ) in tax payers money to help keep the LNG terminals out. So ask yourself do we need to save the mill

and the 1200 jobs it supports I say HELL YA

Andre40 you are 100% right and you can thank the Great Mr Finch and his treehugging cornies for spending all that money to stop the LNG.