I propose a third alternative: outlaw marriage, period.

Good God, this is never going to end. Its all about the economy right now, and the legislature is having to contend with this issue twice in one session. It reminds me of a ship captain looking through regulation manuals to see if he can marry a couple while his ship is sinking beneath him. May the state legislature have the wisdom of Solomon cutting the marriage 'baby' in half to satisfy the conservative christians and the gay mafia.

The first bill has it's pros and cons while the second bill only has cons.

Why not just stop the presses on this stupid second compromise and save the paper it's written on.

There's going to be a big fight either way so, we might just as well gear up for a dirty battle over the first bill.

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

mpt: Gay mafia? I love it! Casting call! I'm thinking Harvey Fierstein as Don Corleone, Bruce Vilanch as Sonny and Mario Cantone as Michael.

Get Hollywood on the phone!

Their sexual preference is nobody`s business as long as they leave everyone else alone.

But that is as far as I could agree with them.

I`d be dammed if my family member was messed up(gay) and was in hospital and it was up to gay partner to decide

the fate of my family. I would have to seriously think about putting him in the bed in the next room just so he couldn`t decide.

this type of bill has been voteed down several times before and looks like the will of the voters doesn`t matter

kylie: Then I guess you would indeed be "dammed", as you put it. If the gay partner was deciding the fate of your "messed up (gay)" family member, it would be because that's what your relative wanted. Why is that so hard for you to come to terms with? Is the gay partner somehow less qualified to make that decision than a partner/husband/wife of one of your straight relatives?

What an arrogant thing for you to say.

kylie00

Manipulation.

Let your gay family member have a life just like you so called straight ones do

And, in the meantime get a life of your own!

Mainelyme

I am willing to bet kylie00 you have a family member that is gay........

It's about votes.

LOL I guess I was right the BDN and its pro-homo-ganda the next day

#1 - It's been defeated several times - why keep pressing the issue

I don't know why people want to get married anyway but if same sex marriage is to be allowed then the IRS needs to re-structure their tax system since it was built on married straight people having kids get a big tax break. They see it as more tax dollars for them later. They will have to change it to allow those who can't /don't have children the big tax break. This should be part of the same sex marriage bill.

On 3/20/09 at 6:08 AM, captain_obvious wrote:#1 - It's been defeated several times - why keep pressing the issue

Sir you are wrong about this ....... perhaps you should do some research on it - adding sexual orientation to the Maine Human Rights Act was what was voted on several times. It's sad that Mainers don't know/red/understand what they for for aro against.

sorry - read not red

The Maine Family Policy Council, formerly the Christian Civic League of Maine will raise fear, hatred and money against both bills. Might as well go for equality. Regarding outlawing marriage; let everybody suit his/her spiritual needs; let the government collect a licensing and recording fee. All state DOMAs and the federal DOMA will be ruled unconstitutional in due course. Government has no business in the business of people's beliefs.

I`m not gayfobic just I have no use for these people in my world

just like I have no place for a case of crabs or gonorrhea

MurphyL,

That is where you are wrong. My family has no use for these kind of people

We were raise Roman Catholic and marriage is between a man and a woman.

Seacoast,

I may be arrogant (in your world) but I will protect my family

Like I said they can do as they please as long as it doesn`t effect my part of the world

Kylie I just want to say one thing...its affect, not effect. That's all. Pet peeve I have.

When this does come to the people to vote down, I`m going to take the day off, rent a van

and transport anyone the can`t make it to the voting booth. Just to keep Maine

"Maine- the way life should be"

Where is the line drawn?

How long will it be before a person will want equal justice under the law to have multiple spouses?

This is what Michael Heath and his followers WANTED to put out to vote - but pulled the plug because they weren't getting the signatures they needed:

The Maine Human Rights Referendum is a veto referendum that would allow voters to approve or repeal the Maine Human Rights Act which bans discrimination based on sexual orientation in the areas of housing, education and employment and would also place a ban on same-sex marriage.

Specifically the measure will:

* Clarify marriage law limiting the institution of marriage to one man and one woman.

* Forbid the establishment of civil unions.

* Clarify adoption law to allow only one person, or a married couple, to adopt.

* Remove the designation "sexual orientation" from the Maine Human Rights Act.

* Eliminate funding for the Maine attorney general’s school civil rights team program.

I`ll take my hat off to any guy that can keep more then one wife(female) happy.

It`s a 7 day 24 hours a day job keeping one never mind 2 or more.

But why should this law stop with same sex

Mulitple spouses, drop age limits, this should be open to what ever on can think.

It may not be natural but what the heck

I`ll take my hat off to any guy that can keep more then one wife(female) happy.

It`s a 7 day 24 hours a day job keeping one never mind 2 or more.

But why should this law stop with same sex

Mulitple spouses, drop age limits, this should be open to what ever on can think.

It may not be natural but what the heck

kylie00

Leave everyone else alone?

So, who's bothering you?

Mainelyme

kylie00 - what happened to love the sinner and hate the sin????

I am totally amazed at the similarity of responses to this equal rights issue as I remember from the 60's when civil rights was the clarion call. The call for equal rights can go on when any number of other issues are being dealt with. Legislators are capable of dealing with more than one subject at a time although from the responses it would seem many think those who run and serve are in the lower I.Q. level. I'm not a fan of the legislators when they favor big corporations over the well being of ordinary citizens, but there sure is a lot of hate coming from those who want to stop this, just as I remember hearing from Strom Thurmond and his ilk in the 60's

It's sad. The people here saying how damned someone else is beause of thier orientation, I have news for you.......I have taken care of ALOT of residents in the Bangor area. Most of them have left my care saying how much they love me and great they think the care I gave them was and how smart they think I am, how they have been so lucky to have a nurse llike me and on and on. Some have even wished I would date their son, or wished they had a nurse like me in their family. I have cared for all of my patients without caring what their sexual orientation, relligious beliefs, race or family dynamics are. I have done my absolute best to be respectful to them and to give them my 100% when they have been under my care. It is an absolute shame that becuse of my orientation, all the good things they have to say and all the hugs, (that's right, you have touched me and hugged me) might be different if they knew. I just chuckle when I read all the discriminatory and ignorant comments of how damned we are and how they do not want us in their family, when they would probably faint if they knew!

This comment has nothing to do w/the story. I was looking for a "hot" topic in order to voice my opinion re: the thumbs up/down thing. I have written to the editor and it did not appear, so I e-mailed the editor. Still awaiting a response. Who is with me? I do not agree w/the thumbs up/down format online. It was okay at first, as you were able to read hidden comments if you wanted to. Now, if comments are hidden, you can't "click" on them to read them. So, a disgruntled individual, who did not agree with your opinion, could click the thumbs down on your comments repeatedly and your comments would become hidden. This is a public entity and a public forum and your free speech is being trampled on in typical BDN style. Please let the powers that be know that you do not like this new restriction on reading comments. Hiding comments is BS! Who's with me?

kylie00 wrote:

Like I said they can do as they please as long as it doesn`t effect my part of the world

I"m glad I don't live in your part of the world!

bangornurse, you probably are a great nurse, and if you're as good as you say you are I would have no problem whatsoever having you in the event I needed a nurse. I have no problem liking you,loving you,hugging you, having you for a neighbor etc.. The hate card is being touted by the homosexuals not the christians. I know literally hundreds of Christians and have yet to meet ONE that hates homosexuals. Leace marriage where it belongs, between a man and a woman.

Call it macaroni for all I care... Just give folks the same guarantees that straight folk get under our Federal and State governments.

That's the crux of the biscuit right there.

lots2say

If you don`t believe marriage is between a man and a woman

then I don`t want you in my world either

so is petifilia normal also

kylie00,

You mean pedophilia?

No, it involves victimization of someone unable to give informed consent. That's quite a bit different than two consenting adults sharing a life together.

Let me see if I've got this straight: one of the reasons proponents of same-sex marriage want actual marriage rather than domestic partnership is that marriage will give their relationships "dignity and respect". If that's right, they're crazy. Changing the name of these arrangements will never change their true nature. The Legislature can call it anything they want - marriage, domestic partnership, or just plain shacking up - but that will never change the fact that these relationships are unnatural and perverse.

kylie00 - could you let us know where in the world you are - so we can be sure to stay away from you.....?

kylie00

Your whole family must really despise you!

Mainelyme

Kylee00 you are a piece of work. I was raised Roman Catholic too, big deal So you don't want "these kind of people" homosexuals in your world, but you have no problem with priests and altar boys? Not that I think every priest that has been accused actually did something, I think they are an easy target but thats a separate issue. Marriage is between a man and a woman, and how many last? How many kids and woman are abused by their husband or parents? I see nothing wrong with same sex marriage or with them adopting afterward. All you bible thumpers forget "Judge not least ye be judged" I think when we go God will decide what we did wrong or right, not anyone here.

kate, putting the subject aside for a second, I wish people that use the "judge not" bible verse would finish it with the ending of that verse which says

" For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

I would challenge anyone to go through one day without making any kinds of judgements on another person. The verse is telling you that the measure you use will be used back on you, It is not telling you to not make any judgements IMHO.

4Him - have to run but have a question - are you saying this means that one cannot judge another is they have committed the same sin ?

not sure what your question is???

4Him I knew you would fly in here on your right wing christian conservative point of view eventually. Why don't we put all of the homosexuals into a pit and stone them?

Some of you talk about homosexuals as if they are a different species. They just have different preferences than you. Like, some men prefer women with long hair but some like women with short hair. Some Women like traditionally manly men or more sensitive guys. Some people like members of the same sex. It's just a personal preference. It has nothing to do with you and it doesn't make them "different". The close-mindedness in this world is disturbing.

Go ahead...ignore the economy and pass this gay garbage! WE WILL VOTE IT DOWN AGAIN! You homosexuals and your twisted sexual desires are appalling!

Hey 4Him, my little blemish... why are you here?

This article is about offering something other than "marriage"...

Is it not enough?

Do you feel, as do so many fundies, that gays deserve no guarantees under the government?

What do you hope to accomplish here, where no one is calling to change your "holy" marriage definition?

Its quite amuzing to read the posts for the day, I have lived in Maine almost my whole life and never truly realized how closed minded and bigoted the people are here. What I think is that most of the homophobic people posting on here dont realize how truly "involved" in their lives "gays" really are....we are your doctors, lawyers, nurses, teachers, waiters/waitress, and priests/ministers. I think most of would be shocked to learn how many people who care for you and treat you with respect are gay....would that change your mind in reguards to care?

The State of Maine already recognizes gay adoption and domestic partnerships, the state itself has seen that two loving people reguardless of gender can live together raise children and be "productive" members of society. Gay people dont care what happen in your bedroom why do you care what happens in theirs? I think if everyone spent less time judging and more time caring for each other "straight" divorce rates would go down, "straight" parents could care for their kids properly, and somewhere along the way marriage and child rearing would take center stage and gay vs straight wouldn't be an issue.

And I leave all you homophobs with one final note: If you dont like the idea of gay marriage then stop having gay children!!

frostheev,

Then the courts will make it law... that's the way it was done for blacks, women, Native Americans... None of those were settled by popular vote. That argument is dead.

Same sheep, different clothes. Will the bleeding heart liberal useless Augustans never stop? And, will they EVER concentrate on the most important issue of creating jobs? What a rediculous waste of taxpayer money! Augusta Elite: Get off your behinds, get your behinds back to work, create jobs to get the economy going & serve the public whom elected you! You are an embarrassment to democracy!

Fierybluez

I do not associate with gays! Normally you can tell if someone is gay just as you can tell if someone has a mental disease. If you are gay, I will not tolerate you in my presence, I WILL LEAVE!

I dont want them teaching kids or leading people to salvation!

I also do not condone liars, thieves murderers, child molesters, etc. Get the picture?

well Sledman I read an interesting commentary in the in editorial section of the Bangor Daily a while ago. Lets think about this....by allowing gays to marry you generate income and jobs for Maine people. They rent halls, hire photographers, rent tuxes, buy dresses, hire caterers, and so on and so on. The money from allowing us gays to marry will trickle through the economy, with all you "straight" people providing services for us you will now be able to buy things and put our hard earned money back into the economy as well. See how this all works?

Frostheev, My partner and I are two very unassuming lesbians, we both have "girly" hair, wear make up, and dress stylish; you would never know we are gay by outward appearence. My partner is a social worker and I myself also work in the human services field; so I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you dont always "know" whose gay....the gay population doesnt wear giant signs of their foreheads proclaiming sexuality

Fiery.................

Again, as has been stated before, the supposed economic gain proposed by a clearly liberally biased study in no way justifies passing this rediculous bill. The state's coffers would runneth over if we legalized prostitution. Does that mean we should? Of course not. Just think of the money that would be generated if we legalized drugs. Does that mean we should? Of couse not. That's not what we want for Maine.

This issue is so big, the people need to vote on this, not have the idiots in Augusta simply write it into law. If it passes after going thru the process which everyone's voice can be heard, so be it, we'll deal. But at least it would have gone thru the process.

Sledman Im all for process, but I think you have forgotten the reason why America was founded...the principles of this country for freedom of religion and freedom from opression. But what you are doing is trying to control my life based on a government who is justifiying "same sex marriage" based on religous stand point....sounds like opression to me!!

And you are trying to control my life by forcing me to legally subscribe to your lifestyle which I believe goes againt natural order.

I respect your opinion but I don't agree w/it & the people have a right to vote on this. There is no other process, right or wrong, to resolve this matter.

You are correct Sledman there isnt no matter how the vote goes a group of people are going to feel they were "wronged" by any laws. Its an unfortunate state of affairs as far as im concerned. But as for me forcing you to subscribe to lifestyle.....no, I am not; I will not nor will I ever expect or ask you to be gay, that would be asking to subscribe to it, hell im not even asking you to accept it, just let us have the freedoms that you have and let us do it in peace!

Agreed on the 'do it in peace'.

http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5

I support the right of people to live their own lives and choose for themselves but my husband pointed something out to me that has changed my mind on supporting unquestioningly this. As notaries we are allowed to marry people. I believe that my religious beliefs should not ditate law but I personlly do not want to marry people of the same sex. What protection from prosecution will be written into the law that I can't be sued if I refuse to marry someone of the same sex. This is happening in other states. Businesses in all aspects of the wedding industry are being sued, photographers, caterers, people who perform the ceremony. In order for me to support this measure I need assurances that if same sex marriage is against a person's believe that they can refuse to participate and not get sued for discrimination. We should not be forced into doing something that is against our beliefs anymore than people who don't agree with them should be unable to have the same privilages that I have. And just because I don't believe it is right based on my religious belief doen't mean I don't support your right to live how you see fit and make your own choices and marry whom you want. Who someone else marries is not going to change my heterosexual marriage and it is not going to make my family fall apart. I just don't feel that I should risk being sued if I choose not to participate.

nanax, there will be consequeces to individuals if businesses for reusing to accept their lifestlye, or for speaking out against it. In some countries in europe there's a 4 yr jail sentence if they deem your speech as a hate crime. I have no doubts that pastors will someday soon no longer be able to preach against it. I'm sure your well aware of the couple in new mexico sued because they refused to photograph a gay wedding. Firemen in california threatened to lose their job for not wanting to march in a gay parade, or the father in massachusetts jailed for not wanting his 5 year old daughter taught about homosexuality in school. You can google any of this yourself and read it. Marriage is not the ultimate goal here.

I did not stop to think about this until my husband brought these suits to my attention. This is why I am concerned. If this is the way I simply will not do any marriages anymore, which is not something I want but I can't risk getting sued and won't be a part of something that goes against my personal beliefs.

nanax7: maybe you should give up your notary status or say you won't marry anyone - Then you won't have to marry same-sex couples.... do you marry couples who have had children out of wedlock?

What is obvious to me after reading what had been initiated last year and pulled is:

Followers of Michael Heath want to make sure Mr. Damon's bill does not get passed, make sure we don't get civil unions, make sure we cannot adopt as couples, legalize discrimination by taking orientation out the Maine Human Rights Act and eliminate Civil Rights Teams in schools (which by the way teaches students about people's civil rights).

4Him - my question about judging --- I thought was clear but: For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you - this talks about the way one judges - standard measure - the men he was speaking to intended to stone a female adulterer - did this mean that if they had been some who had been with her or lusted after her or were adulterers themselves, that they had no business judging her? Or Does it mean that anyone who has sinned is should not judge her?

how about we do a different law? you can marry once. there is no divorce . if you seperate to bad not the gov prob.no tax breaks for being married. no survivor bennies. I have pictures of a gay friend sitting in my lap at a friends wedding 25 years ago with my arm around him. He has since died of aids. I am not gay but hanging with him was some good times, he was a chick magnet, (just one of the girls).they felt safe sitting at a table with him and he was no compitition for me . win win.

ps he was fun smart and would go the extra mile for anyone gay or strait.

lyndenmi my reference was to Matthew chapter 7, nothing there about adultery, it was Jesus talking about the hypocrisy of looking at the speck in your brothers eye while you yourself have a log in your own. Don't be practicing something that you expect others to not do.

thanks

4Him2day,

Are you in favor of returning to laws making those who commit sodomy felons?

Come on now, you go ape when people don't answer you. What say you?

nanax7: As one of the gays, it would be fine with me if you didn't want to marry me...I'd go find someone who was comfortable with me as I was with them. Why on earth anyone would force someone to marry them is beyond me, it would totally ruin the best day of my life. Personally I have already asked one of our best friends to become a notary so that he can marry us when the time comes.

And when the time does come, I will use:

local caterers

a local florist

local inns for my guests (about 100-150)

local restaurants for the celebrations

a local brewery to supply the booze

a local baker to make the cake

etc.

I will be able to help support small businesses in my area by getting married in Maine. I will do my own job to keep people working in this state.

Thank you

ravenh2001

And you'll have your friend sitting in your lap again someday.

I'm sure there are many ways to earn our stripes in heaven!

Mainelyme

C'mon 4Him!

It was an honest question.

Better to answer than not.

lyndenmi, why in the world should nanax give up her rotary status because of her belief that homosexuality is wrong?? This is exactly what I'm talking about. How arrogant of you to even suggest that.

Seth, you know all to well lawyers would be waiting in line to sue, and from your posts I would venture to guess you would be first in line with your hand outstretched.

C'mon 4Him... it's a serious question. You've been trying for weeks to save my soul, and in my defense I've answered your questions whether you liked the answer or not. Now, be honest...

Do you or don't you want a return to to laws making those guilty of sodomy felons?

Why is it so hard to answer a simple yes/no question?

How arrogant of you to not answer an honest question.

The fools are out ihn force today.

Yes, HotTubHerbie, and they won't even answer simple questions.

Sad, isn't it?

I've been judged!

4Him - a notary is a public official: Notary Public is an ancient office with many citations throughout Maine statute. The primary duty is to formally witness transactions involving paper documents. (ie.estates, deeds, powers-of-attorney) In Maine it is now combined with Justice of the Peace and can perform wedding ceremonies. One item in the code of ethics for notaries: "Be prepared to perform all of the duties of a Maine notary public not just the ones you like to do."

From the Secretary of State Handbook for notaries: "As mentioned earlier in this handbook, but again worth discussing here, a Notary Public must never discriminate because of a person’s race, color, sex, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, religion, creed, age, ancestry or national origin.

Often, the Secretary of State hears from Notaries Public that they do not want to perform wedding ceremonies or believe that persons should be married in the church; neither is a valid excuse to refuse. Maine law authorizes a Notary Public to perform wedding ceremonies so this is a duty of a Notary Public."

lyndenmi, while they [notaries] are authorized to perform marriage ceremonies, I believe they have the right to refuse. It would probably be in their best interest to not give their reason for refusing thereby avoiding a lawsuit based on discrimination. I admit I don't know the facts on this, and I'm sure someone who does will chime in and straighten this out for us.

Yes - that is the loophole in which notaries can refuse - don't tell why - it also can be used for race, color, religion, creed etc. It is recommended that they direct someone to another notary. Would you consider this a "lie by omission"? Or is it "the ends justify the means"?

4Him2day,

Good morning. Still not feeling like acknowledging my question?

tough call

and good morning to you little ted

just to clarify my 7:45 post was directed to lyndenmi

So, I should take that as "no" you will not answer my question?

I don't understand. It's a very reasonable question with all these discussions on homosexuality and equality.

Why not just be honest and answer it?

Here's something interesting published in Sept. 2008: something else we are being blamed for-

Christian fundamentalists are suggesting gays and lesbians are to blame for Wall Street's woes, a frequently made charge in the wake of national calamities.

In a September 25th blog post titled 'The Nation Will Right Itself If It Fixes Sex', Christian Civil League of Maine Executive Director Michael Heath writes that the financial crisis facing Wall Street is a symptom of America's sinful sexual culture, including the acceptance of gay unions.

“Our crisis is a symptom, not the cause,” writes Michael Heath. “I am not saying I know whether this financial crisis is God's judgment or not. It is not for me to know that definitively.”

Or you can blame it on us and other minorities:

A related post by Center for Immigration Studies Executive Director Mark Krikorian at the National Review's website pushes a similar theme, this time focusing on Friday's failure of WaMu.

Krikorian suggests the big bank failed because it was too accommodating to minorities, including gays, African-Americans and Hispanics.

So let me get this straight. The economic nightmare we've all found ourselves in is because of the acceptance of gays and lesbians in our communities?

LOL... thanks lyndenmi, I need a good laugh.

I'd like to ask Michael Heath if he wants a return to sodomy laws in America, but something tells me I already know the answer.

But I bet he'd at least answer the question.

4Him - tedlick is correct - you have been very demanding of others to answer your questions --- why haven't you answered his?

Three cheers for the Queers! Bend over Hooray! Bend over Hooray! Bend over Hooray!!! OOO AHHHHH. Do it iagain!

tedlick - According to the mighty Michael Heath it is ----

I think another question would be which laws should we return to - those applying to sodomy which included heterosexuals and homosexuals or only those that apply to homosexuals..... also which definition of sodomy - all acts that do not result in procreation or just a specific act...

lyndenmi,

I find that not one bit surprising.

I lived in a state that had sodomy laws on the books for most of my life: and it was enforced heavily until the 70's when a more realistic sense of life took hold. Then it was used when the law had no other way out... in one case they busted in on the wrong home in a drug raid, and found some folks involved in mutual pleasure. To cover their butts, they arrested one of them for sodomy. If memory serves correctly, it was Penthouse magazine that raised the money to get the guy out of jail (in this case it was a man pleasuring his wife orally).

Living under fear of the state like that is terrible, and it makes the angst of young gay folk that much greater.

Thankfully, the federal courts have seen fit to remove such laws from all states. Much to the chagrin of states like GA and TX.

tedlick - I hear you ---- some here will argue with your point about young gay folk - they also like to ignore the fact the hate crimes are on the rise.

They also seem to miss the fact that Lawrence v. Texas was based on the 14th Amendment and the fact that the reason the police entered the apartment was because of bogus complaint of a weapons disturbance. Would that be considered "ends justifying the means" 4Him?

Transsexual blames doctor for 'regretful' sex change surgery

Published by webmaster for 24dash.com in Health

Wednesday 25th October 2006 - 2:58pm

ARTICLE TOOLS

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GMC

A man spoke today of his bitter regret and confusion after he underwent drastic sex change surgery following consultations with a leading authority on gender identity disorder.

The male to female transsexual, identified only as Patient B, told the General Medical Council in London that 63-year-old consultant psychiatrist Dr Russell Reid had been "too nice" in encouraging him to seek a sex change operation.

He said: "I find life very difficult because - how can I explain it? - I don't want to be female any longer, I am not gay and I will never be able to have a full relationship with a female again and I don't want a relationship with a male.

"I get very confused when ever it comes to even simple things such as choosing which conveniences to use. It is very hard," he told the GMC fitness to practice panel.

What does that have to do with this discussion?

I think all of our laws should focus exclusively on human genitalia. Specifically what fits in where, and why, etc. The ability to procreate doesn't matter. The over-arching principle should be, you know, something like: as long as "it" fits where it's supposed to. Plus, I don't believe in gay marriage because my husband and I are not gay.

4Him2day, when all else fails, use a lunatic to support your argument, even if it doesn't make any sense.

in another posting/tread on March 19th, I asked "Comrade tedlick" a question AND guess what....he would NOT answer!!!!

WHY didn't you answer my question Comrade tedlick?? because you know I was right...that's why!!!!

SO...let me ask Comrade tedlick the same question ....again, and let's see if he will answer this time!!

"with you being gay...in 50 years from now Comrade tedlick, what will you have to show for?"

Anne:

I know..... I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would want to focus on that stuff....human genitalia. I, for one,just am not interested in someone else's sex life (some stranger,etc.) Who even wants to think about that stuff when it pertains to someone else other than your own partner/mate,etc.!! I have never understood it. Who cares.....boring,etc.

I have a few questions for Conservative Christians - You have long used the story of Sodom and Gomorrah as Biblical statement about the sin of homosexuality:

All the men of the city came to Lot's house - does that mean that all the men living their were homosexual? How was the city populated if that is true?

Why do you never mention the story of Gibeah in judges 19 in which the men of the city came the house, beat on the door and demanded to 'know' the stranger (no angels present this time to blind them) - where they also homosexuals - the result of that was the stranger giving the men his concubine - whom they 'abused' all night and left her at the door. Is there any difference here in the 'to know' - did the men of Gibeah not intend the violent act of rape just as the men of Sodom did?

Interesting that you think your are right rfm5555. Your question is not designed to have a right or a wrong answer.

seththayer, what is it "U" don't understand? it's a straight forward question!

come on Comrade tedlick, you're a out of the closet & a BIG boy now, answer the question!!!!!!

"with you being gay...in 50 years from now Comrade tedlick, what will you have to show for?"

I understand lots of things. rfm, but you state: "WHY didn't you answer my question Comrade tedlick?? because you know I was right...that's why!!!!

SO...let me ask Comrade tedlick the same question ....again, and let's see if he will answer this time!!

"with you being gay...in 50 years from now Comrade tedlick, what will you have to show for?" "

It is my understanding that the answer requires a simple opinion, not an answer that can be right or wrong. You say that you are right about the answer...what are your right about? The answer requires a personal opinion and actually doesn't make sense in the manner in which you asked it...I wouldn't answer it either until you formed it in the proper manner.

Sorry to get involved in a question that wasn't meant for me, but rfm, are you implying that the the only way to "show one's measure" in life is by having children to carry on one's memory?

rfm555, this is a discussion about a proposed law. I can think of no law in the U.S. that requires that anyone have "something to show for." Can you? If not, then your point is moot.

This reminds me of an old poem. With apologies to Ogden Nash: My homophobic argument will never make me famous. I'm a homophobic ignoramus!

Well at my age, I'll probably be dead in 50 years, but til then I have a handsome income ready for retirement and my family who are and always have been very close. And my friends as well.

I fail to see what that has to do with anything.

And what's up with the "comrade" crap? I'm neither russian, communist, socialist, or for that matter, "liberal". I'm assuming you think I voted for Obama for some strange reason.

I find it interesting that rfm thinks that if one is gay, one will apparently reach old age without having left one's mark on the world.

I think Harvey Milk, David Geffen, Ellen Degeneras, Alan Ginsberg, Gertrude Stein, Mary Cassatt, and others would take issue with your "question."

If you are implying that if one doesn't have children one will leave this life without having anything to show for it, I think George Washington would have something to say about that.

I too will be dead in 50 years most likely, but I have books with my name on the spine in the library of Congress, a strong Philanthropic record, and will hopefully have a kick-ass estate over which my heirs will fight.

What do you have to show for your life rfm?

Anne: 5:31 PM

Great...I love Ogden Nash....and had not heard that one in a while!

Ellen DeGeneras is one of the most likeable, nicest people ...

and I can't wait to see the movie, "Milk" with Sean Penn.

I have a female friend in Fla who was married but never had children. She owned a home (now a condo), has traveled all over the world, lots of friends,etc.......she did not have kids, but that sure does not mean she is not living a worthy , productive, meaningful life.....a very caring person,etc.

Hey Seth..........spare me with the dramatic punch line. Any Joe schmoe can get a book in the library of congress, look at Tucker Max, "I hope they serve Beer in hell"

You're in good company, he was a philanderer, just like yourself.

Well bigfoot, this Joe Schmoe has five books to which he contributed that are in the Library of Congress, and despite your making light of the matter, I am quite proud of that achievement, thank you very much.

As for philandering....not so much my style

Have a great day bigfoot.

please, name the books for me.................I've got to see the "link" to each one.

seriously, I'd like to have a look, can you please name the books?

Kind of off-topic, don't you think? Google my name, the first one will come up, its an art museum catalog.

actually, you have to add my middle initial "a" into the search bf

Still searching?

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ATH=Seth+A.+Thayer

The above will link you to two of the books currently for sale at Barnes and Noble

ok

Bigfoot: As you can see by the fact that I post with my own name, I have nothing to hide and no reason to lie. I post to these topics because the fate of this bill will have a profound personal effect on my life and the life of my husband. I am not some sick pervert as I have been called, but a normal, everyday human being who strives every day to get ahead in his chosen profession, strives every day to love and be loved, and strives every day to be a good person.

All I am asking is to have my wonderful, beautiful, and meaningful relationship to my husband of 10 years be recognized for what it is, just that, a committed relationship to the person of my choosing.

seth..........congratulations. looks like you've had a hand in compiling the paintings for those books.

if you look at bfro.net, there's a whole website I've contributed to.

i do recognize that. so don't most of us. but why can't it end at just that? do you really need a piece of paper?

Are you really leonard Nemoy?

to get the same protections under the law that other married couples get? yes...

see my marriage means different things to me, so I guess I don't understand.

haha, leonard nimoy....................made you look though didn't I??

The piece of paper extends the same tax breaks and guarantees under the government. It shows that the government recognizes the dedication and commitment that goes into a lifelong relationship together for all citizens. So, yes, the piece of paper is necessary.

I don't care if you call it marriage... lasagna, bologna, or whatever. Just extend the same guarantees to the same type of relationship.

Or, end tax breaks and guarantees from the government to any pairing of human beings. I'd also be happy with that.

I'm sure I'll catch hell for that last bit.

Here's the hell tedlick....................you're not the same as the rest of us, so you don't get the same rights. plain and simple.

So they said about blacks... and women... and native Americans... before they extended equal rights to them.

I am the same. I think that's what bothers you the most. I am human. I am American. I am taxpayer. I am family member. I am uncle. I am great-uncle. I am a citizen of Maine.

Opinions matter not to me in this whole affair, because I have faith that it will come. It will just take more time, and with historical perspective, not that much longer.

That I see as plain and simple.

yes ted you are all those things, and I'm sure you do your best, but you are living a sexually deviant lifestyle and thats the difference, plain and simple.

yeah but those guys weren't doing something morally wrong, that's the difference.

if you want rights so bad, why don't you move to a country that will give you those rights. it's hopeless here in the U.S. you've got too many traditionalists.

THE NEW TOLERANCE

It's politically correct, but does it hold danger for followers of Christ? Is love the same thing as tolerance?

Not long ago, the word 'tolerance' meant 'bearing or putting up with someone or something not especially liked'. However, now the word has been redefined to 'all values, all beliefs, all lifestyles, all truth claims are equal'.1 Denying this makes a person 'intolerant', and thus worthy of contempt.

Where does this leave Christians? Jesus said,

'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me' (John 14:6).

And the apostle Peter said,

'It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved' (Acts 4:10-12).

The new definition of 'tolerance' makes the Christian claims to exclusivity 'intolerant', which supposedly justifies much of the anti-Christianity in the media and the education system.

But this argument is glaringly illogical and self-refuting. That is, if these 'tolerance' advocates reject Christianity, then they are not treating this belief as 'equal'. So, in practice, to paraphrase George Orwell in Animal Farm, all beliefs are equal, but some beliefs are more equal than others. The result is extreme intolerance towards Christianity from people who talk so much about tolerating all views. In short, they are intolerant of intolerance, so logically they should be intolerant of themselves!

The hypocrisy of the new tolerance was shown recently at two universities. At Texas Tech University (Lubbock), Michael Dini, professor of biology, said he would not recommend any students for medical school if they did not believe in evolution. Dini's university rushed to defend him on the grounds of 'academic freedom'.2

Contrast that with what happened at Sydney University in Australia. A number of top academics signed the following statement in a full-page student newspaper advertisement:

'On any criteria, Jesus Christ is one of the great figures of history. More than that, his claims to be the Son of God, who has made God known and taken away the sins of the world, bear up under the closest scrutiny. This is our conviction, and we urge every student to thoroughly investigate this unique figure, Jesus'.

This evoked hysteria about religious intolerance and misuse of academic freedom. Some anti-Christian students even raised paranoid fears about discrimination.3 Yet the above statement said nothing of the kind, unlike Dini's overt intolerance and discriminationagainst biblical Christianswhich was happily tolerated.

Author: Jonathan Sarfati of Answers in Genesis. Excerpted from "The Tyranny of 'Tolerance'," Creation, Vol. 25, No. 4 (September 2003), p. 6. Text Copyright © 2003, 2004, Answers in Genesis.

Danger in the general philosophy of tolerance

There is a great danger lurking in the general philosophy of tolerance. In Australia, a group formed and called itself Toleration, which many Christians viewed as a harmless organization with a worthy cause. Toleration's goal was to promote a tolerance of all religious ways, beliefs and doctrines. Their major theme was "We've got to stop being intolerant of other people's beliefs. Everyone should have a right to his or her own opinion on any matter."

Eventually the organization issued a promotional leaflet espousing this “tolerance” of all beliefs. What did the very first page contain but a detailed list of all the things they were against! They said they were for tolerance of all beliefs, yet they were in-tolerant of the teaching of Creation and the absolutes of Christianity.

People who teach a tolerance of all beliefs almost invariably oppose Christianity. They cannot tolerate Christians saying, "Here's what's right and here's what wrong. God says it. And so that is final." They reply, Oh, no. We can't tolerate that. We've got to tolerate all beliefs."

What are they really doing? They are being intolerant of the absolutes of Christianity, because the absolutes of Christianity oppose a philosophy that says, "Everything can be done in accord with one's own opinion." It is not difficult to see that this popular philosophy is an anti-biblical way of thinking--so dangerous, in fact, that it could one day lead to the outlawing of Christianity.

Personal opinion and following Christ

There is yet another sad aspect to the philosophy that all people have a right to their own opinions. Not only is this being emphasized in our public education system, but it is reaching out from there and permeating all parts of our society, even our churches.

What happens today when churches address issues like abortion, homosexuality, women's role in the church, and so on? All too often, Christians are simply offering lots of different opinions, eagerly expressing their own ideas and beliefs. Often their leaders participate by merely summarizing these differing viewpoints and stopping short of supplying a definite conclusion about what is right or wrong according to God's Word.

The wonderful truth is that, as Christians, we can base our lives on something much more substantial than mere personal opinions! We have foundational knowledge from an Infinite Being, our Creator, to guide us. The record of this basic knowledge begins in the most foundational of all books, Genesis. Our Creator has not left us to find our own way; he has provided directions and specific principles by which to live. Christian leaders should be reminding people that God owns us and therefore sets the rules. What he says must be the basis for all our thinking and behavior.

Our conclusions must be based on the foundation of God's Word, not on fallible human opinion!

4HIm, you're back!

As for deviant, that is your opinion (here comes the AIDS b.s.). My opinion is that it is not, and that is supported by the society within which we live.

de·vi·ant (d?'v?-?nt) pronunciation

adj.

Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.

n.

One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.

Social standards changed with the abolishing of sodomy laws. In that act, the federal government (and many states before) decided that what people do in the privacy of their own home is not to be scrutinized by law enforcement. I pay the same taxes. I root for the same side in our national affairs. I live in the same state as you. I live my life just like you. Society accept it. If the didn't, sodomy would still be a crime, gay porn would be illegal, gay bars would not exist... you wouldn't see gay characters on TV or in the movies or in literature... the list goes on.

The very fact that homosexuality IS an accepted social norm is what's burning you up.

Now, are you ever going to answer my question or not?

bigfoot,

It's happening all around you. And it will continue to do so.

Traditionalists are fading into the past.

And 4Him, I don't believe that the bible is God's word. Try again.

And answer the question: do you favor a return to sodomy laws in the USA?

uuuuhhhhhhhhh, it's not accepted by anyone that keeps a high standard of morals.

there's a big difference between being "widely accepted" and "accepted within the society which we live"

Don't you mean the society in which "YOU" live, the gay society. Of course it's accepted there.

However it's not accepted in mainstream society. Never will be.

I favor a return to sodomy laws.

no ted the fact that people don't accept it is the reason you have a chip on your shoulder. And as far as answering your question, you aren't going to bait me. I will answer any questions at my own discretion that I deem to be sincere.

bigfoot,

I have no gay friends. I do not attend "gay rights" parades. My world is the same one in which you live minus the mythology. I've been to one gay bar in my life, and I never went back. My neighbors are straight as are the people I work with.

A society's demonstrated acceptance generally comes from its legal structure, which I'm sure eats you up. That is the framework of a society. Culturally, you are correct: there are cultural groups that don't accept homosexuality, and I'm here to tell you, that's what I've found in Maine. I'd suggest you move to the bible belt (btw, I came HERE to get away from that crap THERE). I didn't like that culture which is only one part of our society.

Main stream society HAS accepted it. That is the very reason you see so much of it around you every day.

You're an antique, quaint and amusing.

4Him, my friend. I still see no answer. Do you want to lock us up and forget about us?

I've got an important basketball game to watch.

Tedlick..........I really do feel sorry for you. I wouldn't mind seeing you get some civil rights, but I also wouldn't mind seeing you admit that you're different.

Well bigfoot, you've more cojones that 4Him.

4Him likes to babble on about the "gay agenda". Well, locking people up for doing no harm seems to be a big part of the christian agenda.

As for a chip, the chip is there for intolerant bigots who think their book of mythology is more important than fair treatment of their fellow man. It's disgusting: much like a leaking pimple.

Keep howling, my fundie friends. The world is moving on around you, and you're fading into the past. I'm sure we'll miss you in the same way women in Afghanistan miss the Taliban.

Done here, got dinner to finish.

ted, and thats the insincerity I'm talking about. Enjoy your dinner.

Psssst.... you still didn't answer my question.

As I eat, let me clarify something I didn't state well in my post at 7:24.

I found the culture of the "bible belt" to be nauseating. I looked around for a rural area with more open minded people.

I'd vacationed here in Maine for years and had nothing but great experiences, even among those that put 2 and 2 together and figured out that my partner and I were a couple. So, I moved here.

I've never dreamed that there was an area in rural America where I could live without fear of a cross burning in my yard. But I found it. Mainers are by and large very live and let live. That's why I'm here, and I have absolutely no regrets. My neighbors are all straight, but none of them have any problems with my being among them. We take care of one another, helping out with dealing with snow in our driveways and walkways, we help one another with yard work, and we have cook outs where we all show up. It's wonderful.

Maine is a very open minded state, and it's populated with very open minded people. I'm very glad I moved here.

I'm damned glad to be in Maine, even if I am "from away".

And no, I don't live in southern Maine.

It is no wonder the younger generations are choosing mainstream churches or no church at all...Conservative christians believe they have a Special Right to dictate what we think, how we vote, how we treat others, and that they are the chosen ones -everyone is damned - if you could step back and listen to what you are saying you might understand how 'ignorant' and hateful some of really sound. I fear there will come a day in the not too distant future that there will be war in this country and it won't come from outside - it will be from within.

tedlick:

I just got home from a nice evening out to see a play at a local high school. I just read your comments of 8:09 PM and so enjoyed what you wrote. I am also "from away" but have lived in Maine for many yrs now and consider it home (no matter what anyone says about that!) When I molved to Maine, I lived in Aroostook County for 5 yrs and now in this area a lot longer (central eastern Maine.) I so agree with what you wrote about most Maine people. They,for the most part, are open-minded, independent, and have a "live and let live" attitude. Of course, New England and the Northeast have always been the more "liberal" part of the country (also Oregon, Washington and Calif. of course); also, New England, incl Maine, has some of the top colleges and universities in the country. I am glad you feel accepted here and that you are happy living here. Me too. A lot of genuinely good people inhabit this state.

seththayer:

Congratulations on the books and your contributions.....great work!

bigfootinheels

We're all different.

You're the only one who wants to be the same.

Mainelyme

Mainelyme:

re 11:07 PM

Amen!

seththayer wrote: "I find it interesting that rfm thinks that if one is gay, one will apparently reach old age without having left one's mark on the world.

What do you have to show for your life rfm?"

Let me tell you something Comrade seththayer, I just celebrated my 64 birthday, I have 3 grown siblings and 4 GREAT grand kids, EVERY time we get together, we have a GRAND old time!! We ENJOY each others company BIG time, "GOD" IS number one with each of my kids!!! ALL of my kids/children are "straight" which I am VERY proud of!! I have owned two VERY successful businesses which has allowed me to retire early.

....in 50 years from now Comrade seththayer, what will you have to show for?? "...NOTHING...!!!"

"I really feel sorry for you Comrade seththayer, you sound like a very unhappy person."

rfm: You have 3 grown siblings? At 64, I should hope they'd be grown. You maybe meant "offspring","kids", something along that line?

You're proud that your kids are straight? Not sure I understand...what accomplishment is that on their part that should make you feel pride? Oh, that's right...they chose to be straight.

To suggest that gay people will have nothing to show for their lives is a very ignorant thing to say. It's sad that people like you are instilling so-called morals in their children.

It amazes me that you can be smart enough to apparently run two successful businesses, yet so naive about other aspects of the world around you. You let that religion of yours lead you around like a drug you don't want to kick, and apparently have gotten your kids hooked on it, too.

rfm - Your question to tedlick was ridiculous - would you ask that same question to childless couples or those who have never been married? I have many family members who were unable or chose not to have children or never married - they will be remembered for who they were and the love they gave to the younger generations in the family. Why do feel it is okay to ask tedlick that question or any other gay/lesbian? To ask it of heterosexuals would be considered ignorant and disrespectful to them as human beings.

4Him - where di you come up with the word 'deviant' ----- I can't find it in the Bible......

Also waiting fro someone to give me their interpretation of Gibeah....in judges 19........ and how it is different from Sodom

4Him - if you want the definition of 'sexual deviant' - don't know if you will or not but here's a link: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/254660/sexual_deviant_behavior_paraphilia.html?cat=72

rfm: If you actually understood my post, I have a lot to show for myself already at age 42. You apparently assume that if one doesn't have children, one does not have anything to show for a life on this earth. Just because one is gay does not mean one cannot have children, so to put those words down shows your ignorance. I had the chance for children and decided not to procreate...mostly because I am a career driven person and I felt that having children would thwart my business acumen. I am totally happy with that decision. I have had amazing experiences lecturing to hundreds of people, teaching college classes in New York, traveling all over the world, walking in the woods hand in hand with my husband and our dogs, exploring islands in Maine, meeting artists and artisans and so much more.

Any, much to your dismay I am sure...I have a beautiful, happy and healthy life full of friends and travel and goodness. I LOVE my life and the choices I have made in it and am quite happy thank you very much.

The father of our country never had a child and we are still talking about the man over 200 years after his death in 1799. Your family is obviously your mark on the world and you have every right to be proud of that. Please do not attack me for what I believe is my mark on the world...see, every person is different...thats what makes the world go around.

chersully, thanks for the kind words. Maine is a wonderful place.

seththayer, congrats on the good works and the successful business.

lyndenmi, these folks are full of all things ridiculous, yet they call us "different"

4Him2day, I don't know how much more sincere I can be. I tell you with all sincerity that I am a queer, living in a nation and state where there are many other queers, all living among you in productive society. I sincerely believe that we deserve the same rights and guarantees under our government that all other citizens get.

I sincerely believe that the evangelical view of the christian faith is dangerous, counter productive to a healthy society, and full of blind sheep who cannot and will not think for themselves. Look back on the Dark Ages... look to the People's Temple... look to the Crusades... look to Salem in the early days of our nation... look at Eric Rudolph... listen to the vile words of Pat Robertson and his ilk...

Your brand of christian does not give a damn about the well being of people, about how they feel going through life, about whether or not their journey on this rock we call Earth is productive or healthy. I sincerely feel that you're blinded by faith in a book written by men, changed by men, misinterpreted by men, created to control men.

I don't know what more sincerity I can offer. I've asked a simple question, one that bigfootinheels has been strong enough to answer: they'd just as soon throw us in prison as felons than have to wake to the reality that we've always been here and always will be.

You're stuck here with us whether you like it or not. You're earthbound. Unable to float around on the clouds with something you call angels that you're so sure will like you when you get there. And while here, you're going to continue to spew the puss that is your intolerant interpretation of a misguided tool for control.

Just as with the young folk in the article I posted the other day that were trying to wander through spring break in Florida trying to save the souls of people that despise them, I pity you. You want things your way or no way. You speak of a fictional "gay agenda" that I've never seen. Yet you refuse to admit that evangelicals have an agenda of their own, which is to implement a christian equivalent of the Taliban in these United States.

You're hiding behind this "sincerity" nonsense because you know that if you tell us that you want to lock us up as criminals, you'll find far fewer people willing to engage you, and therefore, fewer souls to save for your monstrous god.

I don't need your answer any longer, for I'm confident I know the answer. It's hideous, just like your interpretation of the holy scripture. You are a sad, sad creature.

And leave my "chip" out of it, for it only exists for people like you.

Deny Him, spit at Him, crucify Him, ridicule the bible, ridicule me, call me all the vile things you wish, I still don't hate you and neither does God. You are in a dark place and walking further down the dark road in your homosexual life. God is waiting for you. Waiting for you to knock on the door. It has to be on His terms not yours. God loves you more than you'll ever know, more than anything this world has to offer you.

Do a search on Doctor Norman Spack Boston hospital. He wants to perform surgery on kids who may think they are not the right sex. That is crazy....There is no justification for doing that. A child who goes to see a psychologist for emtional and psychological problems who feels like he or she wants to be the opposite sex will be allowed to do this.

4Him2day, your biblical comments are way off base, but our fundamental beliefs are the same. You need to remove your arguements from the scripture.

Elizabethann

Either cook dinner or go back to mass.

It's Sunday!

Mainelyme

Where does it all end and to what extremes and at what cost?

mainesurvivor, what biblical comments in particular?

All of them.

I guess no one wants to address Gibeah - if Sodom was the sin of homosexuality was Gibeah the sin of heterosexuality or were they both about violence and rape?

well mainesurvivor then I guess our fundamental beliefs are not even close.

lyndenmi, who were you asking the question to? you didn't address it to anyone in particular if I remember.

I originally asked 3/21/09 at 4:43 - directed to Conservative Christians: "to know" is translated in the same way for both stories ......

are these the same "consevative Christians" you were refering to at 10:00? What do you think the sins [plural] were in chapter 19, for I see many?

Elizabethann

Where does it all end and to what extremes and at what cost? '

It all ends soon with no one attending Sunday Mass and no one cooking Sunday Dinner!

Mainelyme

seththayer:

It is not all black and white.....this world, as you know. There are many families with children who are happy and sound and are good people; at the same time, there are many people in this country who never have children (and for so many reasons; some out of choice, some people are unable to conceive and decide not to adopt,etc.) They contribute to this world in so many other ways. This is so evident. Anyway, enjoyed what you wrote about the father of our country (really makes one think!)

I know there are some here that probably feel you are trying to convince them and at the same time convince yourself. I do not see it that way at all. I know you are just sorry to hear people talk this way about other human beings. I would have thought we would be further along than that, but we know of all the prejudice,etc., that still exists all over the world. Luckily, most people in this world do not think that way.

A sample of the dialogue from my still unfinished tenth screenplay called,"They'll Be Some Changes Made."

All have gotten religion and are now testifying on a world wide televangelist's program.

Singer is a professional drag queen, Gloria his ex wife, and Kay is Singer's 92 year old mother, and Gloria's former mother in law.

All are the best of friends

SINGER: “Oh, oh. Gloria’s going to confess now. Hold onto the wood work or we’ll all be behind bars.”

KAY: “That wouldn’t be the first time. Hopefully she’ll stick to her own sins and leave the rest of our sins alone.”

Copyright

2009

Mainelyme

mainleyme............you are weird

You really need to get a life Mainleyme.

........and Sharon, you need some serious psycological help.

Mainesurvivor

I continue to live many lives, and am now getting some of them sown on paper.

See you in church!

Mainelyme

Mainesurvivor

That's "down" on paper.

Tell me what you have survived in Maine and I'll tell you some of the things that I've been through!"

Mainelyme

bigfootinheels

I'm going to cry.

That's one of the nicest things that anyone has ever said to me!

Mainelyme

Mainelyme, I don't correspond with idiots.

Mainesurvivor

Can't get past yourself?

Mainelyme

weirdo.

bigfootinheels

You love it!

Mainelyme

Mainesurvivor

bigfootinheels

You two girls belong to that cult out in back of Sambo's in Brewer?

Oh, bigheelinfoots is a Catholic.

He likes to swallow communion!

Mainesurvivor: stick with the guy in heels, he might be able to give you something to hold on for.

Although I'd doubt it.

Mainelyme

I've been laying low reading most all of the postings/comments on here today and all I have to say is......UNBELIEVABLE....!!!!!!!!!

George Washington, the father of our country, being a Christian man like he was, would roll over in his grave, if he were able

to read some of the postings/comments in this article!!!! AND most ALL of you "COMRADES" would be put in jail before sun

down!!!! You people come on here "SPEWING" your garbage all over the internet, hoping and yes praying that more good decent

God loving people would change over to your "SICK" way of life!!! .....SHAME.....on you all for coming on here and pushing your

"BS!!"

....WAKE UP America before it's too late...!!!! Read about "The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals" ...EVERY-

THING these "Comrades" are spewing on here is in there!! Copy & paste: http://www.rense.com/general32/americ.htm

Here are just a few of the goals set forth by these "COMRADES" :

Goal 25 reads: Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion

pictures, radio, and TV.

Goal 26 reads: Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

Goal 27 reads: Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize

the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

Goal 28 reads: Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle

of "separation of church and state."

Goal 29 reads: Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a

hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

Goal 30 reads: Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the

"common man."

Goal 31 reads: Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it

was only a minor part of the "big picture."

rense.com? That's quite the whack-job, paranoid, xenophobic website. I love the UFO sightings section. Nice reading material, rfm.

Mainelyme:

Sambo's? In Brewer? When....where? (Why?!!)

Anne:

Where are you?! I had an article to refer you to in this wkend's Boston Globe....maybe I'll catch you tomorrow.

chersully2000

It turned into not so Friendly's next door to the Black Knight.

I was in there one nght with a life long friend who went there regularly and this young waiter whose father was a mean looking drunk came up to me at the counter, told me he had something he wanted to read to me and produced a Bible and started to read about Sodom and Gomorrah.

At first I felt sorry for the kid knowing his home life but, it really got annoying as I told him several times to stop as I knew the story and wasn't interested. But, he kept right on standing over me and reading with very bad falters and pauses.

Finally I told him in no uncertain terms that I came in with a friend for a cup of coffee and not to be prayed over.

He got the message and stopped.

As I say, I felt sorry for that obviously abused kid, his abused siblings and his equally abused mother but, that performance of his escaping into the Bible and trying to drag me with him was strictly pathetic.

Now you know that I do feel sorry for these misguided Bible Thumpers but, trying to destroy the lives of other people isn't going to solve their problems.

Most of them really just belong in AA or Al Anon or Al A Teen where they'll get much better psychological support than from some money grubbing church and its manipulative preacher.

Mainelyme

Mainelyme:

I had no idea about that part of Brewer history! Friendly's is no longer there; instead, it is now Walgreens Pharmacy.

chersully2000

I just added this anecdote to my tenth script about televangelism and I e mailed it to the frriend in Bangor who was with me that night.

I just talked to him on the cell phone for two hours last night but, when you've known someone all your life it's impossible to say in one conversation everything there is to talk about no matter how frequently the talks happen.

Mainelyme

Mainelyme:

Glad you could talk to your friend from Maine for so long. But I know what you mean about how you can't cover everything , even in a long phone conversation. And have you noticed how the time just flies by when you talk to friends on the phone like that?!!

SharonFaith - I did read the posted commentary - and I do have questions as to how people arrive at the interpretations that they do. When I read both Genesis 19 and Judges 19 - I read violence and rape- the dehumanizing of people. If one goes back to Chapter 18 where God says he will destroy the cites: 'Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;", he gives no specifics of their sin - if one interprets Chapter 19 as the sin of homosexuality then one can use that thought in Chapter 18. I am troubled with the continued references to the Holiness Code of Leviticus - written about priestly (rabbis) rituals and rules as most Christian denominations do not follow the them. When Jesus refers to the law of Moses - is he talking about the commandments etc. or is he talking about the Holiness Code or both? In the context of the commandments: Thou shalt not commit adultery - the references that I find earlier refers to adultery as within a marriage - a man with a married women who is not his wife etc. - the term adultery has been broadened over many years to include married and unmarried people of both genders. So we now read that commandment differently. In Romans, idolatry - directly going back to the first commandment - the behaviors here were ritualistic and punished as such - taking people who are inherently heterosexual and forcing them into a life of homosexual acts. That was a punishment from God - to behave in a way that was inherently opposite of who they were. That comes to the crux of the issue of orientation. Many studies have been done and there is no definitive answer as to why some humans are homosexual -or for that matter why the majority are heterosexual. You are intrinsically heterosexual and I am intrinsically not.

SharonFaith - "The third post was just me trying to explain how I think no matter what I say or do, there will just be a different question flung out." I truly am not trying to twist anything - Regardless of what some may assert - I do believe in God and Jesus - even though I have trouble with how some come to their interpretations of scripture - if we truly use a literalistic than every word must be literal. Every word meaning must be literal to the time of the writing of the scriptures. We do not define every word today as it was then and so we therefore we must take that into consideration. If we read between the lines,so to speak, we are putting someones opinion of what it says and their understanding into it.

Sharon, you quoted me! You know how dangerous that can be. ;-) First, I don't think that there's anyone posting here who is on the fence about this issue, so I don't think anyone is going to change anyone else's mind. I'm asking you, Sharon: this whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing. I thought we were all sinners, so why are homosexuals being singled out? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even a convicted murderer is allowed to marry in a church.

lyndemni:

re 6:38 AM

Very astute.

SharonFaith - I'm sorry you thought I ask questions as a way to debate- that is not my intention. I ask questions to become educated and to try and understand people.

There really is no need for a redefining of marriage, just clarify what it is, a legal device joining the lives, property and rights of two people. If anything, it should put at ease the fear that people of faith will HAVE to welcome gay and lesbian people into their services. Mind you, not their marriages, those are granted and licensed by the State of Maine.

Bangornurse, it is more a shame that gay and lesbian people are seen as a disgraced form of humanity even though many of us are out in the world, working, interacting, helping supporting and moving freely amongst them. More of us should be more public in our oreintation perhaps, letting those we come in contact with know that we are "normal" friends and neighbors. I am appalled that hate for me exists even before they know me. I have had frank discussions with people who "hate" gay men and women and then the light goes off, they realize I am indeed gay. It has caused some embarrassment but eventually, I would like to think, it has changed the minds of people. Both my family and my partners have come to accept us as a couple, loving, caring, hard working, trying to stick it out through good and bad times. Look to your neighbors, your caregivers, the person helping you with your taxes or waiting on you at the store or your favorite restaurant. Gay men and women are all around you, some quietly living their lives, others, more vocal, letting you know who and what they are all about. I try, at every interaction that I have, to let people know I am a person of value, someone who gives more than they take. I also try to pair this with my sexual identity when appropriate. Letting people know the good side of gay and lesbian people, transgendered people lets the world know that they have less to fear and more to appreciate. peace

jspear:

Thanks for your insights and great comments. I am sorry you have been treated that way by some. There is absolutely no excuse and they should be ashamed and embarrassed. Hopefully better, more enlightened days are coming soon.

Thanks chersully, appreciate the kind words, I hope that better times are starting and to come....