Good idea on Mr. Cilley's part. I was surprised to read that Maine has no law requiring people to call for help in cases like this one. Hopefully our skilled, intelligent, politicians whose first priority is the Maine citizens' well-being will get something passed.

I cant imagine the pain the family must be going through. Why someone would not bring a injured person to get help, or call for help is beyond me.

I feel bad for the family, but I don't think we need anymore laws. most people would call for help if someone was injured. If someone can't figure out they should call for help, no law is going to make them any smarter.

Sometimes people won't help or call for help because they don't want to get involved. Stupid reason I know, but I've seen it a lot.

I think they should pass a law that makes it illegal to disobey the law.

We should make it a law that everybody has to carry around a law book so if they see somebody hurt or something they can look it up in the law book to find out if they should call up for help or not.

I agree with you Scintillate, most people will call for help imediately. It's hard to say what a persons frame of mind is when they are confronted with a shocking situation so I don't think we need this law on books. It's sad to think this young man died, possibly due to delayed treatment and my condolences go out to his family.

I find it hard to believe a Dr. would say that 5 minutes would have saved the young mans life. Perhaps the young man told the lady it was ok just a flesh wound and not serious.

I personally can't deal with blood, first I throw up and then I faint and sometimes vice versa, so I would I be fined for not making it to a phone for 20 minutes or a half hour? Could I sue if I get injured fainting trying to stop and see if someone needs help?

I'm not down playing this sad death but come on many reason could be why she didn't call right away, such as is he not suppose to have a gun? and at first she believed it wasn't serious. Perhaps she did call within minutes but didn't run a stop watch?

AS I SEE IT ----- Mike "Mainer Mike" Brown.

It's incredible that in this day and age, certain laws have yet to be created.

And just Steven Cilley's luck that a law against doing nothing while you know someone's life is in serious danger had not already been put in place.

Frankly, I don't think up to six months in jail is long enough. Also, up to a thousand dollar fine?! Come on!

At least some good has come out of this whole mess. Unfortunately, it will not heal the emotional wound Mr. Cilley is going through. I can't imagine living a productive, happy life if I was in Cilley's shoes.

Lastly, I hope Jennifer Lane is happy with herself. May she live a life filled with guilt.

700 lawyers in Maine are drooling with anticipation whilst reading this story...

I would like to think that most people would call for help. But, I realize that there are always extenuating (sp) circumstances, some of which may cause a delay in reporting. This law, while good intentioned, may actually backfire and cause people not to get involved only because of the perceived perception that they may be liable. This is a sad case, and I wish there was a good answer to the problem, but I'm not sure this law is it.

again its not rocket science if they are hurt help them if you was the one hurt wouldnt you want help got to wonder what some people think sounds like a good law to me peace

I suppose the pro-Torture Republicans are against this bill as well!

The law is a good idea, but tacking on the civil suits is a bad idea. This will open up more frivolous lawsuits for people trying to collect money. Much like this case. The individual commits suicide and the father wants to sue the lady where his son killed himself.

Not helping someone who is hurt or dying should be against the law. So what if it opens the door to civil suits? The woman in the story allowed the man to bleed to death. It doesn't even say whether she knew he had committed suicide. The point is she didn't act quickly enough to prevent him from bleeding to death. Most likely she would be able to prove in court that she didn't willfully allow him to die if that is the case.

The problem with "duty of care" laws is that they create situations in which people who would otherwise rightly not call for help, but now will call and use the emergency response systems in order not to be sued. While this may not seem like such a bad thing, it puts a serious strain on the resources allocated to emergency response and will likely result in increased delays in response times as more units respond to less serious emergencies. The fact is most people aren't doctors and cannot distinguish arterial bleeding from veinal bleeding or a nose bleed from a hemorrhage. While there are unfortunate cases, such as Mr. Cilley's, where are duty of care law seems humane, the number of treatable emergencies that will go reported but received delayed attention will rise as people report more minor injuries out of an abundance of caution.

It should be a law. most wouldnt have to worry about it as they have class, dignity and compassion. The trash like this girl involved shopuld go to jail and be punished.

Well, if this should be a law then so shouldn't it be a law when you bring a person into an ER that is without a doubt showing all signs of severe sepsis poisoning after having gone through an abdominal surgery just days before, that they should get taken care of by a Dr before 12 hours have passed and the infection was able to reap even much worse havoc on and almost kill that person. Sounds very fair to me.

There are some good points made in the other comments, but I'm wondering whatever became of the concept we were taught in civics class of "ex post facto", the idea being that one cannot be held accountable to a law that was not in place at the time of the incident or offense. We can argue the merits of the law Mr. Cilley and others are advocating, but I fail to see where its passage would give any green light for his suit against Ms. Lane to go forward. Perhaps there's a distinction in the ex post facto principle between criminal and civil offenses, but I fail to see how she could be called to account for failing to comply with a law that did not exist at the time.

The unfortunate part of this new law if passed, would be the type of person who shot this poor guy would be the type of person to NOT call regardless of the law or not. How sad for this family.

first question i have is----why not have a law for people to report when another human being has been hurt? im not saying if someone has a nose bleed and you dont help them then you should be punished. in this case they decided that it was a suicide and they DID not do an autopsy on him. in this case...she should be punished. there are alot of things that are not included in this article with his death. how about the fact that after he was shot (notice i said shot..not killed himself...because there are still alot of unanswered questions about this night) jennifer lane left her house and went to a friends house and AFTER opening a beer and sat there for 10-15 minutes she decided to tell them he was shot down at her house. if soemone is shot inmy house....IM CALLING AN AMBULANCE. her house was picked up of evidence and there was gun shells in the garbage......if i shoot myself am i gonna go around and pick up the gun shells and put them in the garbage? there is alot more i would like to say but i dont feel this is the place for it. i just want others to know that there is more to this story then what can be said right now. oh and how about the fact that she was about 4 different stories (in writing) of what happened that night.

How will suing for money ease the pain of losing a loved one?

"Skilled", "Intelligent" .......politicians......surely you jest.

ABRowden:

How clinical...your explanation .....yes, some logic, but...

If it prevented a death or some deaths, perhaps that is reason enough to look into doing something to prevent this type of incident, negligence, and wrong-doing in the future.

ScottFrankfort:

Spoken like a lawyer!!!

suing for money will not ease the pain of loosing a loved one...but even making a check out for one dollar a week to the 2 boys that was left behind without a father......at least she will have to think about the choices she made on the night.......right now she shows no sympathy or remorse for what she has done....nor has she ever....

The more laws, the more business for lawyers.

i guess i missing the problem with lawyers having work?

I once risked my life by pulling someone off the train tracks.

.

And yet I say that this law is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

concerned212:

You are right, this is not the place to say ANY of the things you would like to say. Some of the things you said already are very uncalled for on a site like this. What a coward you are, coming on here and divulging all of this private information about the case, which may or may not be true, and hiding your identity. It is hard enough for everyone involved, Ms. Lane and the Cilley family, that you don't need to be coming on here and typing away behind the mask of the world wide web. This is a very sad story, but until you put yourself in the shoes of all parties involved, maybe you should keep your mouth shut and your fingers away from the keyboard.

In Texas they have a law that makes it illegal to not stop and help someone in an auto accident. They also have a law that makes it legal to shoot someone that approaches you while in your car. Go figure. I agree with the fence on the Texas border, just put it on the north side. Seriously though, it is only common sense and basic humanity to try to help someone that is injured. If that involves calling for help, and that is possible, than you should. however, immediate emergency care may be the best and only option. i.e. someone is bleeding heavily and you have to try and stop it by pressure or there is no phone immediately available. I guess it would be a case to case situation whether calling for immediate help would be the best thing, so it probably shouldn't be law. if someone shoots themselves in your (or anybodys house) though, call for help for crying out loud.

"I suppose the pro-Torture Republicans are against this bill as well!", of anne_of_mdi; good response, well thought out, intelligent thought, one that is appropriate for the argument - obviously you need another snort before you provide us with any more profound thoughts!!

the law is a good one and should have been on the books before this - the pain that father feels must be beyond description, what went on the day of his son's death, we will never really know - what transpired between the woman and his son...if the law would motivate one person to save a life and avoid that suffering, just one, then its good - as far as the lawyers are concerned and the complaints about their increased business - face it we will always have lawyers and there are many decent ones, the few greedy manipulators give the profession a bad rap.

Thanks wolf55! Coming from you that's a compliment. Another snort of what, by the way?

On 4/27/09 at 11:53 AM, chersully2000 wrote: Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

ABRowden:

How clinical...your explanation .....yes, some logic, but...

If it prevented a death or some deaths, perhaps that is reason enough to look into doing something to prevent this type of incident, negligence, and wrong-doing in the future.

ScottFrankfort:

Spoken like a lawyer!!!

--------------------------

more accurately, spoken like someone who has actually spent the time to look at the laws we have in place.

There's already a law about this...against committing suicide!

I think trying to legislate common sense just won't work. Another poster has pointed out that giving first aid vs. leaving to call for help is a decison involving circumstances that is just going to create a lot of lose-lose situations. Most people will stop or call for help as the situation warrants. Personally, being from Boston, I never cease to be amazed by the caring attitudes of people in this state.

I remember when this happened there were a lot of different rumors and this case is way more complicated than it is presented here. I feel very badly for Mr. Cilley. No one should lose a child that way. Just don't be to quick to judge any of the people involved here. It is a tragedy.

I had a situation in my own home. I called EMS as soon as I realized how serious the situation was, and that took about 90 seconds to figure out. The two EMT's that showed up took 48 minutes, from off at the scene to off at the hospital. I live 2500 ft from the hospital!! This person was in diabetic shock, was hypothermic, and the only apparent injury was a broken hand. These were trained professionals and they couldn't and didn't make the right choices. The person did survive. My point is, if emergency professionals can't or won't make the right choices, how can we expect everyone to know which decision is the best one? To allow civil suits in this issue is ridiculous.

"More importantly to Cilley, passage of the bill would allow his lawsuit to go forward without having to go before the state supreme court" To try and get a law passed three and half years after the fact so HE can sue makes this wrong. I realize he is a grieving father and the day will never go by that it doesn't hurt, but this is not the way to fix it. If the state were designate a month or week for Emergency Awareness, that would be the best tribute for Joshua Cilley.

WHAT A STUPID LAW!

.

SO EVERYTIME YOU SEE SOMEONE SITTING ON A PARK BENCH WITH THEIR EYES CLOSED, YOU BETTER CALL EMERGENCYSERVICES IN CASE THEY ARE SICK INSTEAD OF NAPPING, OR YOU MIGHT BE SUED?

.

I N S A N E ! ! ! !

wcbornraised88----first of all im not hiding behind any mask at all.....my name is monica laney and for those of you that know me by my maiden name its monica CILLEY. still think im hiding..... i do know the facts and what i typed before are know FACTS of the case. I held back alot of what miss lane did and by the sounds you might want to do some of your own investigating work and find out the truth........by the sounds you may be a friend of ms lane and if that is so then i feel sorry for you that you can not find any better friends to defend then someone who let a man lie there when he is shot and not call for help. im curious if you are goin to disclose your name as well cause i would have no problem having this conversation with ANYONE face to face who doubts that i may or may not know what i am talking about. oh and i dont care to put myself in ms lanes shoes.....i am involved with the other party invloved as joshua was my cousin. I have read legal documents and all the stories she has put out there, what i have said on here isnt anything that anyone around here doesnt alreay know. (i will keep typing what i feel, and if you dont like it...dont read it!)

MOST IMPORTANTLY---------HE COULD OF BEEN SAVED!!!! THATS THE REAL ISSUE HERE!!!!!!

Raysgurl, are you an EMT, Nurse, Doctor??? I doubt it. Not from what you've said anyway. EMS is not about how fast you can drive from point A to point B. It's about giving care at the scene, stabilizing the patient, then transporting. Was that Diabetic coma, or diabetic shock? Hypothermic? Was the patient outside when it was 20 below, or had they been lying there for some time. If they were down for some time, then they most probably were dehydrated also. Did they have a cardiac condition? If so, that needs to be treated ASAP, not at your convience. And, before you say no to anything, how did you know this at the time? Medical professionals the world over would like to get their hands on your tri-corder.

MikeinFK, I am a Radiologic Technologist with twenty years experience. I have also worked as a medical assistant and have taken courses in Medical Laboratory Technology. The person involved was my husband of twenty years. He had surgically induced diabetes after a successful Whipple procedure for pancreatic cancer in 2002, three weeks after we moved to Maine.

He had been at my brother's house, several blocks away, leaving there at approximately 11PM. On the way home, he apparently became confused and ended up submerged in mud on a thawed snowmobile trail. It was May 3, 2005. I had assumed he was spending the night at my brothers home. Not hearing from me, my brother assumed he had made it home safely. My husband was totally submerged in this oily mud for some time, he believed it to all night, before a man in a nearby yard heard his call for help. Seeing my husband's predicament he called to another neighbor to help him. It took two men to pull him out. He had that oily muck all over his clothing and it was on his face, in his ears and mouth.

They brought him home at 10:03am and the ambulance was off at my house at 10:08am. By then I had him out of his wet clothes, wrapped in a comforter, and had measured his blood sugar, which was 29. It was clear from the obvious deformity of his left hand, that he had a fracture. The EMTs gave him three vials of glucose and attempted to start an IV. I had left the room to get clean, dry clothes for him, and when I came back, they had a tourniquet around his left wrist and were "tapping" on his left hand to find a vein. The EMT successfully got the IV catheter in on the first try. However, they attempted to put in the lock with the pigtail attached, and blew the vein. On the second attempt, I suggested they not use the hand that was not fractured. It was clear from the expression on the EMT's face, she had not noticed the deformity. My input was less than appreciated, and I might add, I was nice and was not rude. On a second and third attempt in his other hand, they were unsuccessful. By then my husband was shivering, and I suggested that they fore go the IV for the less than quarter mile trip, since he did not have a volume loss injury.

They appeared to agree and he was placed on the stretcher with another comforter that I had warming in the dryer. They took the stretcher out to the truck in our driveway, where with the doors open to a stiff cool wind, they worked on the IV until they were satisfied. Then they transported, arriving at the hospital (off at hospital) at 10:56AM. I never got a number on his body temperature at the hospital, but was told his condition was critical. I was not allowed to see him for over an hour, while they worked to stabilize him. The IV they had inserted after so many tries did not work, and a new line had to be established in the ER. He did have bilateral pulmonary effusions, determined by x-ray, and likely due to aspiration of the oily mud he had all over him.

If there really is a "golden hour", most of it was spent trying to put in an IV that was not necessary, and did not work. Why they did not close the doors of the truck while they spent this time with the IV, knowing he was shivering, had been submerged all night, allowing the cool wind to blow into the truck, is still a mystery to me.

Sorry this post is so long, but this is what happened. The point of this and my original post was, in this case, the EMT's used poor judgement, although I realize they were well-intentioned. If EMT's can make these kinds or poor judgement calls, how can we hold someone, with no training whatsoever, responsible for staying to help, rather than leaving an injured person alone, to make a call. How would anyone feel, leaving to make the call, that they could have done more good, by staying. There will be no way to adequately legislate for every situation. Most people do stop to try and help, anyway. So why waste prosecutorial resources for something like this? I believe for those who are not likely to stop are not going to do so for a law many will not understand. The facts of my husband's case are true. The rest is merely my humble opinion.

From Steven & Cathy Cilley

We can see that this issue has raised many opinions and concerns. We hope that this law will make more people aware that a small amount of effort could save hurt that has a ripple effect on family members, not just ours but other families as well.

This law is not a money issue, as no amount of money can bring back to our family what we have lost. This law is for the people of the State of Maine. If this law LD 1258 saves one life, it would be a fitting tribute to our son.

Dear Steve and Cathy,

I am a friend of a woodcutter who knows you. He told me all that was going on as it unfolded. And knowing none of you, my heart ached for you and the loss you suffered. But the wording of this law could be applied when it is against the spirit of that law, and that is going to compound other tragedies.

What did happen to Joshua should not have happened to a dog or cat, let alone, a human being. Placing blame and trying to legislate it after the fact, I believe is wrong. Joshua will unfortunately remain deceased, I wish we could change that for you, but we cannot.

Please instead of legislation, ask for a memorial Emergency Service Awareness week or month to help others know what to do in situations that are less clear than the circumstances of your son's tragedy. I believe that would be a more fitting tribute to him. This law wiould be largely applied to situations less clear, because there are more people like you out there, than those who would sit and watch a man die.

People who make honest but bad decisions can and will be hurt. They will be sued, they will lose assets etc. I am not necessarily opposed to having such a law, but not this one, as it is worded. There is a substantial gray area in this law that will strain EMS services, our courts, civil and criminal. I think the bottom line is this law will hurt everyone, but the one you seek to blame. I am truly sorry about your son. I am a mother too. I have also, been in a situation of having to make that call, and provide first aid, and CPR, all to no avail. There has not been one day in the last two years, that I have not second guessed every decision and thought I had. But I have come to realize there is no point in that, because no matter what or how I think after the fact will not change the outcome.

Please know that my thoughts and prayers were with you then and are with you now.

This law has not been set in stone, it is still under review with the legislature and they are open to ammending the wording.

I am definitely for changing the wording. I do not think the current law does or can define when and what amounts to criminal or civil negligence. It is not in anybody's best interest. More people will worry about the law, than what they should be doing. I don't think this law could or would have had any impact or Joshua Cilley's death. His parents are to lauded for trying to pass a bill for the rest of the State of Maine, but I am not sure this is the right way. The committee was correct in taking it into advisement. We have no idea how many other cans of worms can be opened by making this retroactive. Even if it is retroactive for those matters currently pending, does that mean someone who left the scene of an accident can have this added to their plate? Leaving the scene of an accident is already a criminal and punishable offence whether there is injury or not, but that with already pending charges can influence the hand of Justice. I think we need a better demonstration of the definition of injury, a better definition of how it becomes a criminal and/or civil action. Technically, from my own understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, any one charged with assault that didn't report themselves, could be charged with this in addition to other charges.

I don't think this is what the Cilley's are trying to do. But if an ambulance gets sent out for every scraped knee where there is blood, something bad is going to happen. Who then is at fault? Can the person who made a call be sued for wrongful death if the ambulance is on a wild goose chase instead of with someone injured as severely as Joshua Cilley was? Well, there's the argument that the ambulance shouldn't be out chasing scraped knees, but what if the kid bleeds to death from a less than obvious injury? There needs to some people who have common sense to make a decision of when the injury warrants treatment and when they have to cover their own butts. If you are busy covering your butt, you are not devoting yourself to the more obvious situation at hand. If you hear a blast that is not quite right, call 911 or better still, know the non emergent number of your local law enforcement and call it in. Maybe it is kids with fireworks, but when it happens at 2AM or 4AM, odds are there aren't any little kids, anyway, out playing with firecrackers.

Not included in the law at all is the responsibility we have to our neighbors. Not having seen one in several days, I knocked on his door until he let me in. He was slow answering because he was in dire need of medical help, which he did get within minutes of my gaining access to his home. I could go on and on with different scenarios and if the law covered every one of them, there would be dozens that would not fall into any of those categories. Emergencies need to dealt with on a case by case basis, and in the matter of Joshua Cilley, it would appear that was dealt with very badly. But there may be more that we do not know about, maybe we need to hear the other side of the story. Although in my mind, it would have to be a really good excuse. If someone has a gunshot wound, serious or not, OK well here's the rub, no gunshot wound is minor until it has been examined and deemed so by a doctor. So gunshot wound=911=hospital. Ditto for a stab wound.

One night in the ER, our crew pulled an 18 year old back from the brink death. He had been stabbed in the liver, but initially did not appear to be seriously injured. His bleeding was mostly internal with what looked like a fairly minor wound. He was bleeding out pink IV liquid, he had lost so much blood by the time he arrived at our facility, which was not close by. An easy 40 minutes had elapsed before he reached us. After several days of being critically ill, he woke up and ultimately got well. On a sadder note, he stabbed to death the person who had stabbed him and is now serving life without parole. You just never know!

I am sorry my post was so long. I think the point I was trying to make is, there is no routine emergency. Ask any first responders. Location, people, attitude, time and even luck are all factors. The very best first responders are the ones who use common sense with their training and education. Those with common sense are going to realize that all the average person has to offer at the scene of a shooting or stabbing is comfort and hopefully first aid. The very best is getting professional help on the way as quickly as possible, then try to do what you can to keep a situation stable until help arrives. The more serious the injury, the more need to call qualified help, but how does that translate into law?