I moved away from Old Town 25 years ago and the name Red Bartlett sounds familar. Did he coach youth teams in Old Town?

He has been working at Living Waters for many years. When I worked there in 95' he was also working there.

Did you ever notice how many of these child molesters are known in the community for their GOOD deeds, great personalities, HELPFULNESS? How many of them hide in schools, churches, day care facilities, etc? Teachers, Pastors, Youth Leaders, Friends, Relatives, Neighbors (that would NEVER do anything to hurt anyone) -- it is so frightening!

Child Molesters do not get rehabilitated. We should not have to put them in jail, feed them, dress them, provide heat and shelter for them. They are predators. I realize its not easy to compare a human to an animal however, when a human acts like an animal I feel the comparison is warranted. If a healthy black bear kept coming around your home, tearing into your trash, raiding your garden and causing general havoc on your property a simple call to a Maine State Warden would soon have that bear carefully moved into a more suitable enviroment for the animal. If that same bear was found to be sick, and when I say sick, I mean showing signs of not being a normal bear. The Maine State Warden would shoot it so that it would not be around to continue to cause harm to that family as well as other familys. The whole idea would be to remove the problem properly. Now when it comes to humans we need to be humane. So I think instead of trying to rehabiltate a "sick bear" we should have laws in place that put that bear out of it's misery as well as keeping everyone else safe. At some point "humane" must be tossed out the window as these molesters are not being humane when they attack our children.

I say be humane to the child molesters by giving them a lethal injection and keeping our children safe.

I can promise you this, if anyone ever even attempted to molest any of my daughters they would have one hard week of inhumane justice before death.

Concerned_Resident I couldn't agree with you more but as a patron of Camp Living Waters in Danforth Maine for the past 5 years I am truly disheartened by this news and I pray that the Lord would reign in this situation.

I have made several comments in the past about child molesters, always coming down very harsh on them. This particular incident strikes me off guard though having known Red superficially through living waters for well over a decade. He seemed like a genuinely nice and respectable person. This saddens me greatly, but will never tarnish my memories of living waters as a camper or how I feel about the organization today. If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere. May God continue to bless living waters financially, spiritually, and emotionally this coming season and beyond.

I volunteered for 2 different bible camps in my life. One of them did criminal background checks and one didn't. Guess which one didn't?

again, here we are with another case of a sicko taking advantage of kids entrusted to him. this will only stop when we put them all away in their own specail little, actually big place where they would remain till their last days. the hell, the shame and the life theyinstill in their victims is lifelong, why not for them. at least, it may scare a few of them. they are usually people we trust, teachers, camp counselers, preists and there are alot more but it shows no sign of stopping so put them away for good or unless they volunteer to have their nuts cut off. maybe then we may believe they r sorry and want to change. i know what kind of prison my abuser put me in, a life long battle with drugs and drinking that took me years to stop doing that to myself all cause i just wanted to forget bout it all but finally figured that was not the answer. may god keep the children protected from these a-holes.

It disgusts me to no end that anyone would hide behind religious faith to gain access to children to harm them! These perverts have no fear of God whatsoever. I think they will find that there is a place in hell reserved for them, and no amount of tears, saying sorry, or supposed rehabilitation will ever save them from the punishment of God for molesting children and using the pretense of Gods love to do their evil deeds! It is horrifying!

I went to Living Waters as a child with my mother. We only went to the gospel music concerts. While I was there, I never stayed overnight or was ever left alone. Thank God.

concerned resident: Why do you make such stupid and foolish statements. Were you molested by someone? Have they come back to get you?

They are mostly rehabiltated and go on to lead productive lives, stop the hate!

the demons prowl the earth seeking whom they can devour peace

He should face the same type of fear he put the kids through. Lock him in a cell with a really ugly german shepherd.

kitterykid: What on earth are you talking about. They are NEVER rehabilitated. Not ever, not one of them.

My husband and I have been summer guests for well over 20 years and although we don't know Red very well he always seemed like a decent guy. Our grandchildren were at Living Waters every year from the time they were old enough to go to camp until they were too old for the children's camps. Never did we ever hear anything even approaching something so evil from these kids and they definitely were not afreaid to speak out. Let's not rush to judgement.....many people and their families have been destroyed by the imaginings of a few. I definitely am not saying that any sexual predator should be free to ravage our children! God forbid! All I am saying is that we need to allow justice to be served and see how this plays out. I also pray that God will continue to bless L.W., Roger & Karen and all the people who pour their lives into God's work at this wonderful "little piece of Heaven" in northern Maine.

kitterykid, so you know they get rehabilitated, how? oh, when they are caught, and say just how sorry they are, you beleive that bull. if they don't get caught, do you think they stop cause all of a sudden, they realize how screwed up they are. no, they just keep on doing it till they do get caught and then how sorry they are. i was molested and threatened not to say a word or bad things would happen. he was right, i ended in prisons and rehabs trying to get his demons out of me. you say they get rehabbed, bull. why do they almost always get caught more than once. my uncle abused me many times and when i finally told my mom, she said things like that happen. if it does, where do you draw the line? does that mean i should have done it too?? i would rather jump off a bridge than do that. so mr kitterykid, either you don't know sh$t bout them or maybe you know more than the rest of us who see these scumbags for what they are. dirt!!!! let me ask you, have you ever been abused, or maybe the shoe fits for you.

Floridan: Yes, Red Bartlett was involved with youth sports in Old Town. I too moved away many years ago, but remember him as being involved with the youth athletics.

As to a Bible camp being the scenario...This should not surprise you. This type of predator is consumate at earning the trust of children and therefore their parents. That is how they get their victims. Hiding in places where most people don't think to look is just one way of creating that trusting outlook.

Living Waters never did do background checks, because "all are welcome in God's eyes". While I can commend them on these thoughts for the church itself, I cannot condone them using this same rhetoric in regards to a youth camp that puts children in the care of, for want of a better term, strangers.

There is a caveat here. When a predator strikes we cannot usually place the blame on the school where it happens, the Church where it happens, the home or the day care or the playground or the scout troop where it happens. In this case, we need to be careful about condemning Living Waters camp. If this man is found by the court to be guilty, he is another example of someone who is very good at hiding his real character. If he is guilty, he alone is accountable for what he did unless someone else was negligent. Every agency providing services to children, indeed, should do background checks. That will cut down on the exposure of children to predators with a history. But it cannot serve to protect them from the one who hasn't been caught yet.

There is another caveat, as well. People working with children in a ministry, day care, etc, should not be left ALONE with a child. There are lives that can be ruined if an accusation is made. If the accusation is true, those young people have a life of grief and pain to live and will need a great deal of help. If the accusation is untrue, this man and his family will probably never be totally out from under the cloud of suspicion.

This kind of thing is a tragedy no matter how it turns out.

This is horrific. These sick immoral predators find children and the more vulnerable to prey on; they are the ultimate manipulators, gaining the trust of those they violate.

And I would not be surprised if he is one of the fundamentalists (or of that thinking) that figures he will just say he is "born again" and "thinks" he will be all set regardless of his horrific acts. No way! This guy is going to be in real big trouble when he faces God one day. In the meantime, put him away (he would only re-offend). Keep him completely away from children for the rest of his life. This is an evil person.

Cut off his testicles and give them to Perley.

outlaw, that is exactly what I was thinking as I read this....it fits perfectly, "The demons prowl the earth seeking whom they may devour"

kitterykid, you must have reasons why you KNOW that they can get rehabilitated? but I don't know how right you are about this one....you ever watch real tv...or shows about real criminals in the past! they always end up right back in jail, or back in front of a judge AGAIN! what does all that tell you.... no human being can get those evvil discusting thoughts out of their heads....they deserve their title...

Someone should stick a broom up his A** see how he likes to be violated....

Actually Graceabigail10..I used to work in the justice system, and yes their are inmates that come back into the system after their incarceration...but, their are a lot of individuals that with the proper rehabilitation, do extremely well and never want to go back to prison again. BUT..for the molestors, rapist, etc. they should stay right there out of harm of the innocent..

David/Danforth

The police should be watching you by now!

On 5/9/09 at 7:18 AM, politicallyincorrect wrote: Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Concerned_Resident I couldn't agree with you more but as a patron of Camp Living Waters in Danforth Maine for the past 5 years I am truly disheartened by this news and I pray that the Lord would reign in this situation.

I have a question which may be relevent or may not be, depending on whether or not additional credible accusations are made. Does anyone know if Red Bartlett has a prior history of child abuse? If so it must be the world's best kept secret because he has been at L.W. for many, many years. This whole situation needs our prayers. I agree that sexual predators do not rehabilitate and I agree that they should be turned loose in the prison system. I understand that they do not do well in the general prison population. But I would want verifiable evidence that such an accusation is, in fact, true,

Sexual predators come in all shapes and sizes. They live in plush homes as well as cardboard boxes. Every measure must be taken to prevent amd combat this from happening, but it is impossible to stop every instance. Robert "Red" Bartlett is not only going to face the consequences of his actions in this life, but he will also answer to Almighty God for his gross behavior on judgement day (Hebrews 9:27). I feel terrible for the abused and pray for their restoration and healing. When these things occur, especially within the context of the Chrisitian church or some Christian entity, it is the tendency to react by disdaining and rejecting the whole instead of the offending part, as in the" throwing out of the baby with the bath water" concept. We must not blame God for the stupidity of His people, or for the behavior of those who "claim" to be Christian and associate themselves with His work. The staff and leadership of Camp Living Waters are equally sickened and outraged over what has happened. May this situation serve as another wake up call regarding the rampancy of sexual abuse within society today, and may every sensible and practical measure be taken to immunize ourselves against it.

Before we go freaking out that LW didn't do background checks which they don't agree with as parent of children who go there... I wonder if it would have done any good? Is he already on there? Has he already been convicted of a sex crime?

The child molester should get life... In other news, glad to see that Josh Pelletier is finally going to be indicted for some of the sh** that he has been pulling for many years!

Wow you Christians are really something if you kid got molested at school or a daycare you'd want it burned to the ground but where it was "Camp Livingwaters"your telling us not to throw the baby out with the bath water,I suppose the Catholic church raping boys for the last 50 years was acceptable in your eyes too.Get a life people and shut it down! If it was rare for 2 people to come forward how many do you suppose were molested by this sick man affectionately known ad Red??Open your eyes the camp owners are responsible for the welfare of the children in there care,I smell a lawsuit and a bankrupt Christian camp,praise the lord.As for Red I hope god is going to put eyes in the back of his head,prisioners dont like pedophiles anymore the the rest of us normal folk,an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth.....bend over and take your medicine boy.

kitterykid, you need to take your head out of your a$$.

By the new bill passed by most democrats this week all of you who speak out against pedophiles are in violation of "The Pedophile Protection Act". It is now a hate crime to speak out against pedophiles.

Elizabethann

The Catholic Church is against the same sex law.

It's pedophilia they condone!

Was Robert “Red” Bartlett convicted in the past for a sexually related crime? If has was, a back ground check would have revealed it. If he hasn't, then no amount of background checks would have revealed anything. People, think before you type.

ThomasPaines,

You are dead wrong in taking your wide brush of condemnation and accusing the entire Christian community for negligence and apathy when it comes to these matters. These things can and do happen even under the most regulated environments. I wonder how different you perspective might be if something like this happened under your watch, under your nose, and in a manner completely beyond your ability to detect, control and prevent. Hey, I'm all for accountability and justice, but your expressed solution to the whole situation is both haphazard and wreckless. Applying your remedy to the situation would be like a surgeon cutting and dicing up a patient's entire body in an attempt to extract a nasty tumor located in one specific area. That's not a very good approach at all.

Elizabethann: Your lack of sense never fails to amaze me. QUICK! Quote a bible verse.

this man used to live at indian township reservation many years ago and he got caught molesting a kid and it got brushed under the rug, he moved away for almost a decade and when he returned he stuck around for a while before long he was homeless and living inside the boys and girls club building where he opened the place up and watched the kids there....sick uh, you cant tell me people at that reservation didnt know what he was doing there or what he had done in the past! before long allegations were made and nothing happened once again except they asked him to leave which is how he ended up living in old town agin, had something been done perhaps this wouldnt have happened. there are more children out there that have to come forward to give this man what he deserves!!!! he tends to go after young boys that seem troubled who arent close to their parents and cause mischeif, perhaps hoping the boys wouldnt tell or they wouldnt be believed if they did tell. he even would go so far as too giving them money on a daily basis, something i had seen myslf, when i would speak up about it i was always the bad one who would be accusing a "nice man" not so nice now is he?! i hope he rots in hell, n if he gets that prision time let the prisoners eat him alive....

, bdnreader10

Very sad but, that fits the general description of a child molestor.

Do you suppose the people who run Living Waters thought Jesus would change his ways, or that they were all just joining in?

Kitterykid...name one ho ha been ehabilitated!

Wonder if he will get four months or five.....

There was a man recently CONVICTED of abusing two children sexually at his wifes daycare.

One was ten years old he was 48 and Peter Baldacci worked it out so he has only to serve four months!

Mainers should be OUTRAGED!

bdnreader10:

That is horrendous....horrific!

I hope he will be put away for life so he cannot ever do this to another child!

Sexual predators do not rehabilitate!!

Elizabethann commented: "Your lack of sense never fails to amaze me. QUICK! Quote a bible verse."

Lack of sense? Lack of sense in stating it's wrong to condemn the entire Christian community for the sin of one person? Lack of sense in saying that these things can and do happen, even under the most regulated situations? Lack of sense in stating my support for accountablity and justice, but for stating that condemnation should only extend to the guilty? Lack of sense in stating that the highest standards of prevention must be employed in making every effort to immunize ourselves against the potential of sexual abuse? I'd say that's good sense. Do you want to elaborate on your statement, because you are the one not making very much sense. No "true" Christian would ever seek to minimize the exercise of justice or soften the situation at hand by "quoting a Bible verse," and that's what you seem to be implying. Actually, there are plenty of Bible verses that should be quoted, such as the one which states, "It is better for a millstone to be hung around a man's neck and he be drown in the depths of the sea, than for such a man to cause a little one to stumble." God takes this situation very serious, and so does the vast majority of those within the Christian community.

Dear politicallyincorrect, please consider 2 Cor. 11: 13-15.

I am always horrified at sexual crimes and misconduct directed toward anyone, especially children. So I am disheartend, to say the least, that the day could come when sexual acts with children are no longer unlawful. Having served on the grand jury and looking into the faces of little children who have been abused and hearing stories that made even grown men weep, this thought is incomprehensible.

But not everyone believes this is wrong, believe it or not. In fact, there are groups such as NAMBLA who advocate such relationships. There is a controversy currently in the American Psychological Association about the idea of removing pedophilia from its list of disorders. If that happens, could such an action pave the way toward making sexual acts between adults and children acceptable in our society? I sincerely hope and pray not!

If that thought is disconcerting to you, pehaps you will go to http://www.narth.com/docs/pedcrisis.html and read up on it. We MUST protect our kids!

If convicted he should be put in the general population. A week there would do it !

Carol1, NARTH is a group that claims they can 'cure' homosexuality. These sick SOBs are vastly heterosexuals. Stop trying to confuse people that it is gay men doing this by pointing to NARTH. They are pedophiles just like the NAMBLA SOBs. Get a freakin clue!

Big bubba, meet your new cell mate

tdgbjglmgwagwltbg :13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

I considered it and you are absolutely right. I was never so naieve to think that Christians can't so bad things. CLW on the other hand does not screen their workers well because it looks like Red has a shady past in OT... it may not be on his records but most likely could have come up in a reference check! The BIBLE also says we should be wise as serpents but gentle as doves.

Wait til the misquotos come out and hand cuff him nude to a tree and let mother nature teach him a lesson!

Elizabethann: Your lack of sense never fails to amaze me. QUICK! Quote a bible verse.

Carol1 does not sound very smart.

Let's allow same-sex couples to wed; then let's devote the necessary time and energy (being expended on the wrong things) to protect children.We can start by recognizing the horrible acts perpertrated upon our children; such as this evil camp counselor from Danforth. There needs to be much stricter protections put in place.

And this camp conselor needs to be put away for life.

Yes, God does take this situation very seriously.

As a former camper and a former worker I am stunned at the range of response. I am disappointed at those who seem to support Red. I remember when I worked there another man was being charged with a similar act but on older teen age girls, Berrie Dean I think his name was. Any camp is an easy target for pedophiles. I still love the camp and I may go back again, but the camp needs to open there eyes and be more selective of who they hire or allow to volunteer. I remember this man and I also found it hard to believe at first. However with 2 boys coming forward I would say it seems more likely that it did happen. I hope the camp learnes from this and makes changes.

unlistedid:

You are brave to go back to that camp, but maybe that is a way to make some improvements there. A lot (a lot!) of changes are called for at that camp. Horrendous!

brainchild...I've heard reports about him as far back as the 1980's....the boys never reported to the police.

bdnreader...He use to live on Indian Island and was married to a Penobscot. That was back in the 70's and 80's. He did the same thing there, or so I have been told.

KitteryKid, I beg to differ about your reference to the rehabilitation of sex offenders. They mostly, DO NOT get rehabilitated. I was shocked a few years ago to find, on the sex offender registry, a man I knew at a church I attended in Bangor. He was involved in the youth group there. I had three daughters that were involved in various groups there. Another time, I found on the sex offender registry, a woman that I worked with at the unversity. So sex offenders do find positions of trust within the community, mostly in positions that have access to children. They are people that you would never suspect of having a double life. But they do and they completely fool people.

Wow! Saltoria, if you heard reports about him way back in the eighties, knowing that this is a camp for chlidren WHY DID YOU NOT NOTIFY THE CAMP!!! Who in Hell, in their right mind, would keep THAT under their hat! All I can say is that you must NOT be a parent! You are niglegent! I worked in health care and if we didn't report such knowledge we were held culpable1

Sorry for my mis-spellings but I was in a rant!

Saltoria:

That's awful. That he did it back then .......terrible.

Growing up as a Kid in Maine I went to Camp Living waters and as far as the camp it self, It should not be condemned for the accounts of others. I enjoyed going there every year and still have fond memories of Living Waters. It was a great place of fun and worship. I never ever heard of such a thing happening there. It has been well over 30 years and those things never occurred back then like they do now. I sincerely hope that it does not take away from anything Living Waters offers to children as the true work of God there, is great for kids. This person should be dealt with by the law and let God’s work continue at such a wonderful place for kids. I am shocked that something like this could happen and spoil a childhood memory for the poor victims involved. For that alone this person should get life if it is true! God knows the truth for he is the almighty and he already has a plan for the guilty!

unlistedid: Barry Dean is Rogers brother in law...

Politicallycorrect...Why did you feel it necessary to bring that out? Everyone who is close to the camp knows that and the others don't give a crap! Grow up! Why do some peopkle love to be the bearers of bad news??!!

EyeSeeYou.... I LOVE you!

I never knew Berry was related to Roger, that explains a few things.....hmmmm

You can tell the "Mongers" from those who truly have questions and concerns by the way they gleefully gobble up all the angles and figure ways they can spread more maliciousness. I don't think a pedophile should be protected but I don take any delight in tearing down those people who were fooled by him. We all must have been...or otherwise HOW did this go on so LONG! It's known as collateral damage. I wonder if Red understands or gives a damn about any of this! Probably not.

hhhhhhhh!

Sex among the scriptures.

I always knew those filthy biblical stories turned its readers on.

The poor little innocent babes.

I hope the authorities have a thorough investigation before these sex deviants have a chance to move on to other helpless victims.

brainchild: why do you feel it's necessary to disclose that information?? Furthermore, what else should I not mention?

Politicallyincorrect.......What information have I disclosed? You are the one who is the one "in the know".

brainchild: why do you feel it's UNnecessary to disclose that information?? Furthermore, what else should I not mention?

Politicallyincorrect: I think the question is "why is it necessary to disclose that information when it serves no purpose other than to give the readers the impression that you are someone with GREAT inside knowledge." Furthermore, on thinking back, I have no axe to grind with you. I was really creeped out by Saltoria, who, by her own admission, knew this was going on "back in the eighties" and did nothing to stop it from continuing! Your comment came when I was pissed so there you have it...sorry. I usually agree with what you have to say.

Politacallyincorrect.....I think we are on the same page for the most part. You know the Adversary is delighted if we are divided against ourselves. This is a watershed moment in the future of a wonderful Christian camp. They have done so much good but you may be correct. Maybe this Roger's moment of truth. One would have thought (as I did) that after the Berry Deane incident that background checks would have become routine, part and parcel of being a Christian counselor or employee in the 21 st century. And just as an aside....Red was not a counselor but more in the grounds keeper/handyman capacity. Not that it matters in this case. I'm still appalled at the criminal negligence of Saltoria! Anyone who knows something like this has a responsibility to the kids to report it regardles of the laxness of the camp directors.

Ahhh!

The plot sickens!

I don't think that most people really understand the prevalence of this problem in our society. Pedophiles are lurking among us everywhere and we don't even know who they are.....then we find out! We are shocked...many of them are our neighbors, family members, friends, clergy, Sunday school teachers, counselors, the list goes on and on. Many of them haven't even been criminally charged.....YET! I have just found out about someone who was not charged, is not on the SOR and who is someone who teaches Sunday school, chaperons on these church trips and so on. I was flabbergasted! My son has spent many nights at this man's home. I had to go to my son and ask him if he was ever touch by this man.....what a question to ask an eleven year old! To KITTERYKID, get a clue, do some reading on this subject, most of these people, men and women alike DO NOT GET REHABILITATED!!!! It is a very rare pedophile who gets cured from this malady, it is in text books everywhere. I suggest you study the issue before you make such ignorant comments. I also have personal experience with this situation and the person may tell you they don't have a problem anymore but to only find out later on that they really do and boy are they sneaky about it!!! SO BEWARE!!

Phoenix:

You are correct; these peophiles admit themselves that they will reoffend. They cannot be rehabilitated!

brainchild... thanks for settling this but FYI I am not "someone with GREAT inside knowledge". I just read a comment from another person and put two and two together as I am from Washington County and know of the Dean's.

It seems to me we have a slight problem in Aroostook County?? Eh?

79+ comments primarily devoted and directed at this one loser named Robert "Red" Bartlett.....did anyone read beyond the first paraghaph and notice the three other people charged with the same crimes against children? It's understandable that this one jerk was highlighted as he worked in a chirstian youth camp and we hold them at a higher standard but lets not forget there were many more innocent children victimized at the hands of others listed in this same article. Sick Sick people!!!

James A. Bates, 31, Presque Isle, gross sexual assault, unlawful sexual contact.

Vernon L. Pinkham IV, 33, Presque Isle, two counts of assault, gross sexual assault.

Michael O. Cronin, 27, Presque Isle, gross sexual assault.

Wayne A. Cyr, 49, Caribou, violation of sex offender registry.

Red bartlett worked on Indian Township for many years as a cook, He also worked With our boys and Girls Club, our Director OF The Boys and Girls Club even let Red live in the building, I suspected something about Red when he moved on the Reservation many years ago, He took our kids camping all the time, always had young boys around him . He was Banished off the Reservation a Year or so ago, of a complaint of gross sexual contact, but was never chargerd. Put him in jail and throw away the key because theres no helping him, he will just do it again when he gets out

I still wonder why, if it was common knowledge that Red Bartlett was a pedophile, didn't anyone report this to the L.W. director or board of directors. Think of the grief and perhaps life-long emotional pain which could have been prevented. We all have a responsibility to protect our children where we can.

brainchild: I would agree regarding your question, why wasn't this reported to the LW director. I think the issue raised here that it was always suspected, but nothing was ever proven. If something was said, it would essentially be hearsay not fact. Although if I was told there were potential issues with someone I would act on that.

Thumbs downing an article only marks it as a "must read."

Thank you friends if pedophiles you're finally doing a good deed for the children of the world and their devoted parents.

To kitterykid who has a problem with someone saying that these perverts can't be rehibilated, I say

they did these things over and over again until they got caught and used every way possible to get at these children.

The don't deserve to be rehibilated in any way shape or form. They are a danger to society and have taken the most precious

gift we have and destroyed most of them from having any real trust in the society. You should be ashamed fo yourself for such comments

i don't believe kitterykid that they can be rehabilitated. i use to work with one of these scumbags, and he would act like a real pervert when he would see kids selling cookies or candy at the time clock. yes, old carl gendreau would be like a kid in a candy store after he had gone down so don;t tell me bout rehabilitating, maybe a very small percentage but not very high.

brainchild...I moved off the island years ago. I didn't keep track of what he was doing you idiot.

Saltoria... the issue is not about my intelligence or lack of. It's to do with personal responsiblity in reporting suspected pediphiles to protect our or anyone else's children from them. All you needed to say was contained in your first sentence.

Brainchild, you said, "I'm still appalled at the criminal negligence of Saltoria! "

That was a pretty idiotic thing to say when you don't have any facts. Suggesting that I was criminally negligent is a pretty serious accusation when you have no basis in fact....I didn't have proof, only hearsay.

Saltoria

Hearsay?

If three people say you're drunk then go home and go to bed because you're drunk!

As a matter of fact several people have stated their knowledge or suspicions regarding this man so I guess it wasn't really fair to single out one person. I know I have been guilty of not saying or doing something when I should have at times. but this case should be a wake-up call for all of us.

mainleyme: lots of people think you are delusional. Does that make it so? Should I report it to the mental health authorities? Probably not, that would be based on "hearsay." Get it?

dbaker: good observation! BDN is just as guilty for trying to make Christians look bad. I am sure they made a headline out of Red because he was associated with a Bible camp. Jerks!!!

Please let the law look into this and see if Robert “Red” Bartlett is guilty before we all crusify him and his family for a situation that did not take place. It has been known to happen before where one is acused of a crime and is found innocent. I am all for accountability and justice, and if this tradgey took place and the two were abused, than the law should pass judgement and sentence accordingly. But, if this man "Red" is found innocent, I wonder how many of you who already have crusfied him will post a comment on that story with an apoloy to him and his family.....I doubt it....

All of you Christians who were claiming that you needed to protect your children from homosexuals in the articles about same sex couples getting married? I think that homosexuals are the least of your problems. Now that this has been published in the paper I see a few of you claiming that we should wait till he is convicted and I’m sure your saying that because it was a religious youth camp. Your thinking

nobody at a religious youth camp could possibly molest children..... LOL what a crock. He is a heterosexual who may or may not have molested 2 boys. what about the article in today’s paper about the man in Lamoine who molested his daughter? Hummmmmm? He was her father yet another heterosexual & a father to boot. I haven’t seen any articles about homosexuals molesting anybody listed in the paper. You call anybody that is for same sex bigots. Yet you are the bigots. Priests, clergymen , camp counselors, fathers, coaches ,teachers, bus drivers, husband of a daycare provider even was in the paper a bit ago.

BTW, homosexuals don't just molest each other you know!!!

anonon; I don't think that your comments have any relevancy here. You are referring to homosexuals ( of which you are appear an angry one yourself.) The comments are being made about those who molest children, a totally different topic altogether. Not to mention your comments seem to be formulated from angry twisted little bigoted mind. Let's keep the conversation related to the topic, instead of making this your own personal forum to express your obvious hatred!

flyfishing...If I am wrong about his guilt, I'll apologize. There is just too much history of being accused to believe he is ONCE again innocent.

truly comforting to hear about.i used to go to camp Living Waters when I was 10-17ish.i dont really remember "Red" that much but hey like it says in the bible jesus loves the little girls and boys ha ha hah!

On 5/11/09 at 6:17 PM, bigfootinheels wrote:

BTW, homosexuals don't just molest each other you know!!! "

There you are Kiises.

DEW tell us all about it.

In graphic detail.

Saltoria

No dear

Sometimes my being delusional is a known fact.

Yes let's not be quick to judge accused child molesters, his acquaintances, or the leaders of this camp where something happened or has been alleged to have happen.

But, let's crucify gay couples as evil and other names and insults, as well as legislators who support same sex marriage, and the governor too. And none have broken any laws either or have been accused of anything and guilty only of loving their partner enough that they would like to marry and start a family like everyone else.

Yes no hypocrisy here.

fredrogers: No one is crucifying the homosexuals but it seems some one always has to mention how homosexuals are picked on, and then whine when there is a rebuttal! I would like to point out that the majority of molesters are males who molest little boys. So what does that make them? Pedophiles and homosexuals. Again this discussion was about story regarding the man who has been accused of molesting kids, but the homosexuals always have to be heard so they make any forum theirs. I have to now agree w/ the reader bigfootinheels, there isn't much of a distinction between the two.

bigfootinheels :

Check the comment about not condemning the guy till he's been in court.

They are pretty sure that with 2 boys that have come forward with the same story that its more than likely true, and who knows how many more will come forward.

This is such an emotionally charged issue! I have found myself as you all have seen getting side-tracked from the really issue and inciting p-----g contests when the problem for us all is that it "appears" that a trusted man has defiled the very lives he with which he was entrusted. That makes everyone angry and out for blood! It goes against everything we've held dear.

ptane67 :

Why don't my comments have any relevancy here, it is about a man who supposedly molested 2 boys at a Christian youth camp, and the comment I made was about comments that were made about the Christians claiming that they had to protect their children from homosexual, when they should be concerned about the heterosexuals that are molesting their children. I think that it has allot to do with this article. I'm merely pointing out a fact to the Christians that they should be watching out where they send their children. They are the bigots for claiming that the homosexuals are going to be molesting their children.

anonon: you do make a very good point. But the fact of the matter is that EVERYONE, not only Christians should be be aware that these predators are everywhere. As far as the designation of "bigot" is concerned, ever group has their bigots. They also come wrapped in all sorts of packaging. I'm a Christian and so thankful to be but I certainly do not think of myself as anymore righteous or fool-proof than anyone else. That's why it's nice to have discussions to help us see from another's perspective.

ERRRRRRRR !

Thank You brainchild,

I wasn't trying to come off as an azz about this, but just wanted to point out a a fact that when the issue about protecting their children from homosexual, I just beleive in fair is fair. That they were commenting on molestation, when this article proves my comment I made that more heterosexuals are more likly to molest kids than homosexuals, atleast thats what these articles about recent molestations going on like the one in Lamoine who was a girls father?

Did Red lived in EAST MILLINOCKET at one time? Curious.

anonon: Your comments were only charged with accusations about the comments Christians made about homosexual marriage in other articles. (read what you wrote again) You never stated that Christians should watch where they send their children. You only mocked them and them called them bigots. That's what made your one sided argument irrelevant in relation to this discussion. You need to also remember that not all of the comments here, or elsewhere relating to homosexuals and pedophiles are made by Christians, because they aren't. As far as he Christians claiming homosexuals would molest their kids, I didn't see that here. I will stand by my statement that if you are a male pedophile who molests little boys then you get to wear both crowns, pedophile and homosexual. The same for any female who makes that choice. I will leave you with the dictionary's definition of a homosexual; ( of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex)

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, the characteristics and behavioral indicators of a pedophile, also referred to as a serial child sex abuser include the following:

1. Usually an adult male but some women also sexually abuse children

2. Often a child molestation victim themselves

3. Seeks out children of the age group they were when victimized4. Usually married and hard-working

5. Employed within a wide range of occupations

6. Usually well-liked and respected community members

7. Often well-educated and regular church-goers

8. Relates better with children than adults

9. Some prefer boys, some prefer girls

10. Usually prefers a specific age group of children

11. Takes and collects photographs of victims while dressed, nude or in sexual poses

12. Collects child-adult pornography

13. Seeks to lower inhibitions of potential victims

14. Regularly attends children?s events in the community

15. Volunteers in youth organizations

16. Coaches children?s sports

17. Chaperones camping or overnight trips

18. Frequents video arcades, playgrounds or shopping malls

19. Offers babysitting services

20. Seeks jobs where children are easily accessible

21. Befriends parents, especially single mothers, to gain access to children

22. Participates in internet gaming with children

23. Joins social networking websites such as MySpace, Facebook, and other social media

24. Become foster parents

25. Seeks job opportunities where children are easily-accessible

It is a widespread misconception that child molesters are complete strangers to their victims, and statistics of child sexual abuse confirms that 90% of sexual abuse victims know their abusers. Children are most often sexually abused by family members and close family friends such as fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles, cousins, boyfriends of single mothers, babysitters, etc

It is a widespread misconception that child molesters are complete strangers to their victims, and statistics of child sexual abuse confirms that 90% of sexual abuse victims know their abusers. Children are most often sexually abused by family members and close family friends such as fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles, cousins, boyfriends of single mothers, babysitters, etc

fredrogers wrote::

You are so right .

mike1967....I don't believe he ever lived in East Millinocket. I heard from my daughter last night that he has beend banned from Indian Island. FINALLY!!

I have a question for those of you who say you believe in rehabilitation? Would you allow the rehabilitated sexual predator in your home/church/school to interact with the children that are near and dear to you? Would you throw caution to the wind and trust that the sexual predator has been rehabilitated?

What is the definition for predator?

pred·a·tor (prd-tr, -tôr)

n.

1. An organism that lives by preying on other organisms.

2. One that victimizes, plunders, or destroys, especially for one's own gain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Latin praedtor, pillager, from praedr, to plunder; see predatory.]

Prison is too good for child molestors!

Speak as someone who has gone to this camp, knows "Red", is a Christian, and who has family involved with this camp I hope Red's victims got closure and Red burns in hell from the crimes he has committed by preying on kids.

Bigfootinheels; Most gay people I who don't pick children as sexual partners. Your hatred is showing. I have gay friends who are great parents. Peds pick children as their predominate sex partner. This is forced upon the child, unlike gay or straight people, WHO CAN MAKE A CHOICE about having sex or not.

sorry *speaking

Well, hermongirl09, when the children were brought to Jesus to be blessed, He said it very plainly: "whoesever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea." - Matthew: 18:6.

In other words, the predator would be better off dead. Because He loved the children.

The criminal background checks are a feel-good measure without much merit. If the perpetrator's fingerprints are not on file, or if he (it is most often a he) has not been caught, if the background check is done before the criminal starts his career, or if the original case was bargained down to "simple assault" there is no negative rating, and the cost of the check is wasted.

Then there are those who just "luck" through the system, like the cook at my elementary school who molested children for over 20 years without any child ever reporting him.

As to rehabilitation, GENERALLY there is no rehabilitation, mostly due to the fact that most of these guys do not want to change. They are sometimes VERY cunning and manipulative, and are able to fool "treatment professionals" into believing they have changed.

I remember the priest I confronted in Worcester Massachusetts who I confronted after one of my foster children told me a horrific story of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of this man. I told him that this was "pure evil, and an abomination" he replied "How do you know? Have you tried it?" The Rev. Fredette is now served several years in jil, but the State court of appeals overturned his conviction due to the term of statute of limitations being exceeded.

These guys are really hard to get rid of, like gum on the sole of your shoe..

On 5/12/09 at 1:02 PM, debutante wrote:

Well, hermongirl09, when the children were brought to Jesus to be blessed, He said it very plainly: "whoesever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea." - Matthew: 18:6.

In other words, the predator would be better off dead. Because He loved the children.

Fortuately, this kids have nothing to confess. They did NOT sin. Their attacker however, is a different story, but let's leave him for HIM to judge.

KIDS, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT THAT SOMEONE YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TRUST IS F***** UP. EVERYBODY KEEP SAYING. . .IT'S NOT MY FAULT. . .

hearing this story makes me sad. I worked at living waters for 7 years, i knew Red, and would never suspected anything like what he is accused of, ever happening. all the years i worked there i felt safe , and everything we did was well supervised. i am sure investigations will be done and justice will be served, but i don't feel that condemning living waters and wishing they go "bankrupt" (as one person said earlier) is fair. Karen and Roger have given their lives for that camp and the people they have taken under their wings. i pray that the truth be found out and that living waters will not suffer to greatly from this ordeal my heart and prayers go out to Roger and Karen, to the camp, and all parties involved.

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

AMEN! lesterdubbs. My feelings and prayers exactly!

125 comments all targeted at Robert "Red" Bartlett and many condeming this youth camp as if somehow they condoned this activity....think about it. My question, did anyone read beyond the first paraghaph and notice the three other people charged with the same crimes against children? It can happen anywhere at anytime by those we least expect....sad but true facts. It's understandable that this one jerk was highlighted by BDN as he worked in a chirstian youth camp and we hold them at a higher standard, but lets not forget there were many more innocent children victimized at the hands of others listed in this same article.

James A. Bates, 31, Presque Isle, gross sexual assault, unlawful sexual contact.

Vernon L. Pinkham IV, 33, Presque Isle, two counts of assault, gross sexual assault.

Michael O. Cronin, 27, Presque Isle, gross sexual assault.

Wayne A. Cyr, 49, Caribou, violation of sex offender registry.

Oh yea Red was a well known pedophile when he lived on Indiantownship. There were those who spoke out but were overwhelmed by the authorities. Yes we knew and he did alot of damage to our youth yet he was welcomed back time and time again. There were some police officials who tried to do something but they were fired. Makes you wonder doesn't it. There's alot more sicko's down there and their still the authorities.

You are right, Raysgirl, I certainly didn't mean to say that kids who are molested are sinners. Kids are innocent, no matter what. It's the adult perps who are the ones who should taken responsibility for what they have done to kids. And I still believe that they should be thrown into a river with a millstone around their necks.

debutante, as much as I try to resist judging, I am with you. Nor did I mean to attack yur statement. I just wanted any of his victims or any child, to understand it is not their fault. It is not their fault that it happened, nor is it their fault for not disclosing it right away. It is a tough thing to deal with.

dbaker, the person indicted at the camp has been indicted for hurting children. I don't know him and am trying NOT to judge in my own mind. None of the other crimes are any better. But none of them appears to be charged with an offense against a child. Theirs are not victimless crimes but adults have more built in defenses than little kids, usually, but I realize not all the time. That is why there has been so much focus here on the first case.

I hope anyone who has been victimized comes forward. And I do not believe the sick acts of one individual should damn the lifeworks of the people who have have served the camp well.

Raysgirl, like you, I don't know this guy but I am very familiar with the excellent reputation of this youth camp and unless I am mistaken, I believe in the State of Maine, the term "Gross" before Sexual Misconduct or Sexual Assault is only used in crimes where the victim has not yet attained the age of 14 years old which qualifies as a child in my book.

This News makes me very sad! I have known Red for many years and would have volunteered at the camp around the time these things would have happened. I know Red and he was always a great guy. Very sad. He will deserve punishment yes and I hope he is remorseful but I will continue to pray for him and those of the lives that he affected.

Living Waters is an amazing camp and I have basically grown up there since i was 3 (27 years) In all my years there is has been a great place and will continue to be.

Gross Sexual assault is not a term used in reference to age, it is a reference to the severity of the act. It means rape was committed. Sexual misconduct is when only touching the genitals occurs, not penetration. Please gets facts straight before posting, or else others who take TV, internet and radio as fact will assume you are right.

On 5/9/09 at 2:32 PM, Elizabethann wrote:

By the new bill passed by most democrats this week all of you who speak out against pedophiles are in violation of "The Pedophile Protection Act". It is now a hate crime to speak out against pedophiles.

It is ignorance, the lack of educating oneself, to continue to make statements that are completely UNTRUE.

There are many organizations that have MISSTATED the APA’s definition of orientation so as to claim that the Hate Crimes Act "H.R. 1913" would protect pedophilia, exhibitionism and various other paraphilias.

The APA’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) classifies “sexual orientation” as heterosexual, homosexual, and bi-sexual. And some organizations (Illinois Family Institute is one) that have corrected the misstatement.

hi

The society is facing problems with such laws. This has to go legal and it’s needed to be sorted at the earliest.

despino

camper trailers

I hope the authorities are also investigating the supporters of this pedophile religious camp

They can be every bit as guilty as the camp councilors who work their way onto the the abusive staff.