Mr.Murch is trying to save the world but screw the humans

Of all the ideas out there to generate electrical power, this is the worst I've heard about. I think there was a serious quantity of wacky weed consumed at the inception of this plan. Lower the cost of power? Yeah. Attract investors? Yeah. Leave town? Please.

Once again Maine DEP steps in the way of progress and jobs. Its not a wonder no one wants to do buisness in Maine.

Mr. Murch should recuse himself from this entire project if the views he expressed are his own, if he was relaying the position of the DEP then this is only more proof that the State of Maine wants to leave Washington County as a pristine tourist destination, and not an area where individuals are gainfully employed and retain young people.

This project is a "NO-BRAINER". Clean, green, renewable, not foreign dependent source of energy that would be funded by private not public monies. After the concerns of various affected parties such as the Passamaquoddy Tribe, fisherman, clammers and wrinklers are addressed appropriately, then the benefits of this project I feel greatly outweigh the negatives.

And "LubecKDeck"......... as far as you comments are concerned, it is blatantly obvious you are not packing a full deck, your mom must have dropped you at birth. What is your claim to fame besides the shame of others?

It seems like 2 to 3 feet around the perimeter of the cove isn't a lot. At first I thought they meant a 2 to 3 foot change in water level, which would have environmental impact. Economics shouldn't be of concern to the DEP and I wonder if this is the official department position on the project or that of Dana Murch. He did say "we remain skeptical. of the economics of the project". Of course if it is economically unfeasible and causes a permanent change in the tidal area maybe they should be concerned. It certainly is the area to be looking at tidal power and may have economic value beyond the project itself. Also an increased tidal area may help wrinkle and sea urchin habitat.

If this is funded by investors-how is any of murch's business about the economics anyway? probably afraid it will work and probably it will since the state won't have a hand in it!

If this project will help to lower the price of electricity, which will help attract businesses and help the people, the state will kill it one way or another.....

LubecKDeck:

There are two commercial tidal barrage power plants in operation, the first in Rance, France (68MW):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_tidal_power_plant

And the second just up the Bay of Fundy in Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia (18MW) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapolis_Royal_Generating_Station

Wacky how these things work.

Having Murch recuse himself? Good idea. As the Department's representative in the process his statement is perilously close to cause for the DEP to recuse itself entirely.

The economics of it are the concern of the developers and those whose businesses and livelihood could be affected.

This is just one more example of the kind of "leadership" in green energy that Angus King was referring to at the conference at Samoset a couple of weeks ago?

When it comes to saying "No" to everything out-of-hand, the Republicans have got NOTHING on the DEP. At least they're showing their true colors, trying to kill something they don't want for reasons completely outside their expertise.

One would hope the State will finally see the light and allow a worthwhile project go forward. This project is not a new idea as I believe there was a similar project that tried to go forward in the Eastport area in the early to mid 70's. It's high time the rest of the state quits deciding what is best for Washington County and let us decide for ourselves.

if u build it...they will come

Actually .. the Maine DEP does have the State's economy as part of its vision statement - taken directly from their web site:

A Maine where a stewardship of natural resources ensures a sustainable economy for future generations.

A Maine where people understand that a healthy environment and a strong economy support one another.

So - it's well within Mr. Murch's duty to consider economic impact. Perhaps wise investors might also consider sources other than the DEP, like a prospectus? If they want to go ahead and invest it's up to them!

I would hope that something like this would work and bring electric rates down. Unfortunately, wouldn't the power generated, have to be put into the New England grid? I haven't seen any reduction in electric rates yet from the introduction of the windmills. Is there any plans for the utilization of locally generated power to be distributed locally before it is exported? Will Irving LTD allow Washington County electricity to be transmitted on their power corridor? Will the Godfreys' come out screaming NO at the last second if the project shows any possablity of being built?

Just some questions that come to mind.

Maine has hundreds of tidal mill sites where the civil engineering for a large pond impound was done over 100 years ago so that tidal saw and other mills could be constructed.

Why is that these developers want some gargantuan project? have they been drinking the Angus King KOOLAID, i.e. only a 1,000 off shore wind turbines will do!

Is a small project economical?

Absolutely, there are thousands of them in Europe and the UK's THAMES river project is demonstrating how barrages can be compatible with a wide range of tidal river uses.

Is Dana Murch an OBSTACLE to sustainable energy progress in Maine?

Absolutely, but he reflects the prevailing opinion of DEP commissioners that ALL hydro is 'bad'...remember only one new small hydro project(ironically, developed by the Applachian Trail Club for their hut in the Rangeley region), has been approved in the past decade.

Given the complexity and cost of DEP permitting, small hydro developers are either installing 'secret' installations on long owned property, or simply scaling up the installation so that the costs of permitting---thousands of dollars and dealing with public hearings open to all.

This a long recognized problem in the northeast, esp. in Vermont and Ontario. The battle continues in Vermont; but in Ontario the ONTARIO SUSTAINABLE ENERGY ASSOCIATION is carefully watching how the new GREEN ENERGY ACT is implemented. Maine has a long standing legislative mandate to put hydro above all other forms of energy generation; but this mandate has been IGNORED and trampled by Littell & co.

Common_Cents:

Can you point to info on the small barrages that you cite? I haven't been able to find any. I did learn that there is a 3rd large scale plant in Kislaya Guba, Russia.

Can small scale projects work? Certainly. I look at all the small tidal rivers in Maine, with reversing flows at bridges that cross them, and think of putting tidal turbines to the sides of these same bridges. That they would all run at slightly different times helps with the naturally intermittencies of tides.

Maine is certainly part of a larger ecosystem that is in need of shifting energy production away from the burning of fossil fuels. Each community and state should be considering how it can help move us (the world) into a "greener" future. One would hope that Maine's DEP would be considering at the big picture.

The DEP is going down with the ship..land based wind farms ....which are harmful to the environment and people. Tidal energy has proven much more effective in France. Not surprising DEP is against it. Tidal also has been reported not to affect the fishing industry.

So why would DEP object? They are in the pocket of First Wind. They bend stretch and ignore ME state law for them.

Now that First Wind is broke they are waay out on limb with no safety nets. I am sure there are those in DEP who are worried about their jobs and investigations which are 100% positive to turn up with anti trust issues.

First Wind put the Stetson Mt wind farm up for sale in Jan without telling LURC. Meanwhile applying for more wind farms all over ME. There is supposed to be full financial disclosure between the wind farm corporations seeking permits and LURC. This latest episode will be harder to sweep under the rug. ...due to the anti trust investigation into Iso New England which will lead to ME state govt complicity.

When Peter Vigue askes, "Why Not Maine?", Mr. Murch and the DEP show why. If they can kill an idea, they will (and the people/economy along with it).

The Maine Maritime Academy (Peter Vigue-trustee) and past graduate...has been seriously working on tidal power engineering for a few years now. The school has technology partners that are highly respected in their specialties. I suspect when "Governor Vigue" is in Augusta, Mr. Murch will be swiftly retired.

The Academy is also designing Shuttle craft 'Tug Boats' for deep space work. Do not underestimate these people.

glenna and caveman:

Peter Vigue was kind enough to grant me an hour-long interview, which you can read here:

http://www.turnmaineblue.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2701

He has some very interesting ideas, but as he has told others, he told me that he will NOT be running for governor.

I just read your article (Gerald Weinand) and saw that it was done in April. Peter doesn't want to jeopardize the refinery module plant in Brewer at this time. I believe he was shipping the first barge around that time. He will play his cards very close to his chest. Thanks for the article.

No Nukes. No Dams. No Trash to Energy. No Wind Mills. No Tidal. Maine: Life in the Sone Age.

Make that "Stone" Age.

I was told the off shore wind farm in France was built in sixties and is still operating. Generates way more electricity than land based wind farms . Land based turbines have a life expectancy of 20 years. And there would not be a fire hazard. Only reason that I can see for DEP opposing them is they have been bribed. They are looking guiltier and guiltier every day.

Trash to energy is kinda' nasty as the burning goes into the atmosphere. You may be surprised to know that current ME state govt is trying to do away with alternative if it isn't land based wind farms. They are all working together to close down bio mass which gives jobs. It is scrap wood. Not usable for anything. Using all of the tree once it is cut. They are very strict about keeping out trash in the scrap wood. Like styrofoam cups. Which would go right on in the trash to energy. I personally do not like to breathe that stuff.

DaddyBiggs:

Some would argue that we are in fact in the Sone Age.

It seems also like Maine Government wants to keep the Passamaquoddy Tribe in the Stone Age. Seems whenever the tribes try to do any type of economic development, the government is quick to shut it down.

How much energy does the tide produce really? The libs will say we need to spend a boat load of money to find out. Common sense tells us tide power is a dream. This is nothing but a waste of money. The money would be better spent on constructing the Big A. Hydro is proven, efficient & cheap.

By the by, Europe is abandoning offshore wind farms, they have learned the hard way offshore wind is not cost effective. The U.S. has coal & oil reserves, let's use them & tell the middle east to take a hike.

And what will we do when the coal and oil reserves run out Sledman? I'm betting we'll wish we had invested in green energy when we had the chance.

We shouldnt wait till we run out.

It's not yet been proven we will run out although I will conceed we have demonstrated we have the capability to deplete natural resources. Commercial overfishing is proof positive.

Green energy sources are too expensive, our energy bills will be 4x or 5x compared to what they are now.

Sledman...Europe is abandoning land based industrial wind farms. Libs do not need to spend a boat load of money to find out how much energy the tide produces.Since France has had off shore wind farms since the '60s ...that information is established.

Tell the middle east to take a hike. Funny. Maine Central Electric and Maine Public Gas are owned by Iberdrola out of Spain. They are funded by Abu Dhabi Energy .

Notice there is no more talk of wind farm permits all over ME? First Wind, gov baldaci's best friends put the Stetson Mt wind farm up for sale in Jan. Didn't reveal that information to LURC when they were getting the permit for the Rollins project. At least they are going away.I know they will be missed by the gov.

And how long will these "reserves" last sledman? What happens when these "reserves" are near depletion? What do you do then? Wait till it's a crisis? Are you so stuck in yor ways that you can't see beyond your Budweiser? Come on Sledman, where are you getting your "facts" from?

People complained when they wanted to put a LNG pipe line across Half Moon Bay because it was going to upset the eco- system in the mud, but now it seems to be ok to dump tons and tons of rock in Half moon cove and i suppose that won't hurt the eco- system in the bay.

Yet another instance where the State is putting the NO in innovation. Maine is consistently inhospitable to small business. This state will die if we can't build consensus and foster new ideas for renewable energy development. It would be great if we could be seen as trendsetters with vision for the future, people who work together to overcome obstacles and compromise for the good of the community. Change can be frightening but certainly no more frightening than what we are currently faced with, an aging population with no hope for the future generations.

When businesspeople want something, how dare those charged with guarding the integrity of the natural environment speak out in opposition. God gave us precious and wonderful humans this planet to exploit anyway we see fit. If you don't believe me, look it up in the Holy Bible, which, of course, is true and perfect in every respect because God Himself wrote every single word in it (the original English version anyway -- I don't know about those foreign language bibles).

No Name, glad to see that you have finally come out said what form of energy you favor. Other than what you have been saying about First Wind having it's Stetson plant for sale can you enlighten everyone as to the current status and also let us all in on the information you have seen on Europe moving away from Land based turbines?