‘obscene profits’ ???

The profits are so good (obscene) in Maine, all but a couple of insurance companies left long ago. The state doesn't pay its bills, forcing the hospitals to shift the burden of those liabilities to those who are already paying their own share.

That's Obscene!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tom Dickey - Agreed for the most part. Yes the official should be working to change the law, No the official is not above the law, but poking hardly constitutes assault, it is rude but being rude to a police officer is not illegal. I would suggest if you don't want to deal with scumbags who are rude that you not be a cop. (DUR!)

Marguerite Wilson - Less talk more action on healthcare reform.

Lloyd Bryant - Agreed Palin is not a foe that Obama needs to worry about. And yes we should all be keeping tabs on what Obama is ACTUALLY doing (not what some of you have made up in your minds but what he has actually done)

Beth Gott - Again if you don't want to deal with belligerent drunks then being a police officer is not the job for you. I have no sympathy for a cop whining about who they deal with day in and day out, they knew that was part of the job when they applied and if they didn't they are stupid. That being said yes he should be cleaning up his act and should be working to change the fireworks law. When did people all start getting sentimental over police? I mean I read somebody on here the other night suggesting that Obama was wrong to call the officer who arrested the professor in his own home stupid. What the Fu... err.. hell?

Louie Pelletier III - It really is time we started flexin our muscle over Canada.

Ernest Levasseur - I rarely head to Burnham so I really don't care what they do.

Concerning the Bill before Congress, are these things true?

Page 22...mandates the govt will audit books of ALL Employers that self insure

Page 30....govt. committee decides what treatments you get

Page 58...govt. will have real-time access to individual finances & a National ID card will be issued

Page 59...govt. will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer

Page354...govt. will will RESSTRICT enrollment of special needs children

Page 170..Govt. mandates that non-residents including illegals are to be provided health care at our expense

They should use Rep. Blanchard as an example and throw the book at him as hard as possible. Many of our legislators have out-of-control egos and it's time to throw a wet blanket on all of their inappropriate and/or illegal behaviors.

It's interesting that the liberals always talk about "obscene profits" from corporations. Apparently they don't pay taxes or they would be talking about "obscene taxes" levied by their government. Corporations do not have the power to tax us, governments do. If we don't like a corporation, we can willfully choose not to do business with it. If we don't like obscene taxes, TOUGH! We are held captive by big government, not by corporations. The socialists have been successful in demonizing corporations in favor of nanny government. Fools!!

Obamacare is more about control and driving private health insurance companies out of business......another job killer. Thanks captainandy for your 10:55 PM list concerning the Bill before Congress.......I don't know how anyone could read it and not be concerned.......

Hopefully you know who doesn't get this articles comment section turned off like Fridays.

Here's a great letter about THE BIG LIE that government is going to get between you and your doctor. From http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/25/756972/-Dear-Mr.-President

"Dear Mr. President

by Hunter

Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 02:20:04 PM PDT

Dear Mr. President: I am writing you today because I am outraged at the notion of involving government in healthcare decisions like they do in other countries. I believe healthcare decisions should be between myself and my doctor.

Well, that is not strictly true. I believe healthcare decisions should be between myself, my doctor, and my insurance company, which provides me a list of which doctors I can see, which specialists I can see, and has a strict policy outlining when I can and can't see those specialists, for what symptoms, and what tests my doctors can or cannot perform for a given set of symptoms. That seems fair, because the insurance company needs to make a profit; they're not in the business of just keeping people alive for free.

Oh, and also my employer. My employer decides what health insurance company and plans will be available to me in the first place. If I quit that job and find another, my heath insurance will be different, and I may or may not be able to see the same doctor as I had been seeing before, or receive the same treatments, or obtain the same medicines. So I believe my healthcare decisions should be between myself, the company I work for, my insurance company, and my doctor. Assuming I'm employed, which is a tough go in the current economy.

Hmm, but that's still a little simplistic. I suppose we should clarify.

I also believe my healthcare should depend on the form I fill out when I apply for that health insurance, which stipulates that any medical problems I ever had previously in my life won't be covered by that insurance, and so I am not allowed to seek further care for them, at least not at my insurance company's expense. That seems fair; otherwise my insurance company might be cheated by me knowing I needed healthcare for something in advance..."

There's more at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/25/756972/-Dear-Mr.-President

SD

she's working on it already.

they should leave the healthcare system like it is, if you've got a decent job you've got healthcare.

it's like incentive to better yourself and get a friggin job.

if everyone gets it for free, where the hell is the incentive.

I hope Palin runs in 2010. At least we'll have something decent to look at.

I hope they do put the private 'For Profit' health insurance industry out of business. The only reason we only have a couple of carriers in Maine is because of monopoly practices. Just like our land line telephone services. We only have one choice. How is that working out for us??

You can bet if we had any American woods workers trying to work in Quebec, there would be hell to pay. They come here and work because they have plenty of benefits from Canada, health care being one, that they can still utilize. The private land owners don't have to pay FICA and other mandatory contributions for Canadian workers.

Profiting millions opon millions off the sick and dying, yeah, I'd call that obscene.

While delivering a health insurance product that is expensive and ineffective, yeah, Id call that obscene.

Single Payer Health Care Now!

anne - nice story, but a little misleading.

My insurance company doesn't tell me which doctor I have to go to - they tell me which doctor they have negotiated a discount with, and give me the option of using that doctor at no additional cost, or allowing me to spend some of my own money choosing a doctor I would prefer. The fact that the government doesn't have to negotiate when NOT PAYING THEIR BILLS IN THE FIRST PLACE and telling ALL doctors to take it or leave it doesn't sound like a better plan - just a naive one. The effects on the health care delivery system will be deep and long lasting. So much for the best doctors and hospitals.

A better idea would be to simply cover all the uninsured, and begin to go through each component of the medical and insurance system one at the time. And, perhaps a 10% cap on profits, with reinvestment of any excess, for a period of years. We would have the best system, and it would have time to improve.

Be careful crawdad, she's watching lol!!!!!!!

Hi Anne, nice to hear a reasonable voice among the chorus of yahoos.

Re 7:55AM Shallow comment....so shallow. Sickening really. It is for President, not a Miss America contest. And it would be 2012, but then I can see why you would not get that right either!

crawdad wrote:

"she's working on it already. they should leave the healthcare system like it is, if you've got a decent job you've got healthcare. it's like incentive to better yourself and get a friggin job. if everyone gets it for free, where the hell is the incentive."

Now I might be inclined to agree with you if I wasn't an accountant. Every year health care costs for business are increasing 8 to 15x's more than the cost of living. Causing businesses to set aside a larger and larger and larger percentage of their yearly operating budget to cover employee health care. My company in 2008 paid 100% of my insurance. Starting in Jan. of 2009 it reduced that number to 90%. I have finished the budget for 2010 and the amount will be 80% and I know it will continue to drop as costs skyrocket. Within 5 years that may only pay 50%, within 10 years - nothing. Companies across the country are already dropping health insurance - because otherwise they couldn't stay in business.

It is highly doubtful that in 5 to 10 years I'll be able to find a "better" job that offers better health insurance because they probably won't exist. And if they do exist the health care costs will create substandard salaries that are not enough to live on. If things stay as they are, employer sponsored programs are going to be a thing of the past.

I support National Healthcare because there is no other option -- I just don't support the poorly conceived plan that is before Congress.

Why did they disable the comments on Thursday and Friday? I don't remember seeing anything too contrary in either days comments. I can still get to Wednesdays comments so it is no that they are old. Is there a limit on how many comments can be given on a particular day? Is there a place to view these?

It was Tony Simpsons fault maineac..

10:49 MaineEx.... good post! There will not be a 'fix' that will be appealing to all, someone will always find a complaint. Something has got to change though... :)

Crawdad, I have a great job but I can't afford health insurance. Virtually no one can afford to purchase their own private health insurance policy (less than 5% of the entire non-elderly US population) . I am self-employed like many people who live and work in Maine. Are you suggesting that everyone's goal should be to get a job that offers health insurance? That leaves out a lot of people, almost every small business owner and independent contractor.

So I gather you think ownership of a business should only be an option for the wealthy. That doesn't sound very American to me!

Chersully: Re your post on 7/26, 11:00 pm about the annoying EJParsons. Didn't see it until the next day--but the way I think of it, there are several kind of people who post. Those who are really interested in learning something, sharing, or listening to others; those who just like to see their comments in print; those who only come to rant; and those who are looking for a (verbal) fight. EJP clearly fits in the last two categories, which makes him particularly annoying. I'd suggest either just not answering him--it's best not to feed people like that--or thinking of your answer as directed to the other readers, even though it responds to him. Helps to avoid discouragement. Remember that the rest of us value your reasonable and thoughtful comments.

MaineExpatriat, I agree that we need national health insurance asap. I myself would prefer a single payer plan (for instance, just expand Medicare to include everyone). But people I consider reasonable think the plans before Congress are (so far) ok, if not great (for instance, see Krugman's column in the NYTimes today). What aspects of them don't you like?

Re: Speeding Legislators

Somewhere I picked up that legislators are immune from speeding laws **IF** they are on their way to attend a legislative session.

I don't think its very "American" to force on person to support another, especially when the other person is capable of supporting themselves.

I was framed I tell ya!!!........................................... The worst I have done was last week when somebody that lives surrounded by water ;-) called people dogs ; and I politely ask the person with the abbreviation in their name ;-) to go scratch some fleas. Boy was my face red when they took that down. Lesson learned I tell ya!!

boogyman: think a little harder. Why should we pay taxes to pave roads in Oregon, that most of us will never see, much less use? And of course there are thousands of other things like that which we pay for that we don't use ourselves.

I think only those that make enough money to pay their own bills should own their own business. If it doesn't pay the bills its not a job, but a hobby.

I'm glad you feel that way boogyman. Then you should ditch your current group-rate, employer-sponsored health insurance policy so you can pay the full cost of a private, individual health insurance policy yourself. I know you have stated here that an added $14,000 annual expense is nothing to you, so why not go ahead and do that so you can put your money where your mouth is.

It always interests me that you don't see the problem as the high cost of insurance and health care, but that it is because uninsured and under-insured hard-working Americans are for some reason undeserving. Are you sure you aren't a paid lobbyist for the insurance companies?

It is very un-American to believe the best job is working for a bloated corporation and not for one's self.

Furthermore those bloated corporations will not be offering health care to employees for much longer.

MaineExpatriat: right. If something isn't done soon, the whole economy will come crashing down from the cost of health care.

peaches, 12:15 , there is a perfect example of one of "those who are looking for a (verbal) fight," that you wrote of at 11:53 am.

Government run "health care" programs have ALL been a complete disaster so far.

Every one in every country.

anne_of_mdi: Yes, and he loves to rant also.

peaches: http://americancommonsense.typepad.com, I put it all there. I'm just too lazy to type it all out again. : - )

mattcarbone: Nonsense. Talk to somebody who has lived in one of those countries. My neighbors lived in Canada for many years. They think the Canadian health care system is way superior to what we have. One example: their son was born there. Net cost to them: $65, and that was optional.

MaineExpatriat: thanks, I'll take a look/

A lot of the health care problem that nobody talks about is tort reform. So much of the cost involves endless frivolous law suits.

How is the postal service and Social Security doing these days?

How is the postal service and Social Security doing these days?

Lousy but they're still suffering from the Bush effect.

GW's fault again, I see.

I have absolutely no complaints about the postal service. The fees are modest and the service is excellent. I do not understand what the complaints are about the postal service.

peaches, where in Canada did your neighbor live? Was it New Brunswick? I have mentioned it before and nobdy has ever been able to explain to me how it isn't a bad thing that they just closed dozens of hospitals in New Brunswick to "centralize" and save money. Thousands of people are now around 30 - 40 mins from the hospital. Thats not just a scary story from the insurance lobby, thats the reality of what happened right accross the border from me. Maybe that is just a New Brunswick thing and not all of Canada, I don't know for sure.

Telefunk... just something to rouse the rabble.

and... Anne I agree. For 44 cents someone will come to your house, pick up some piece of crap you've written and take it to the other side of the country in a day. I just can't find fault with that.

Postal service is great.... if it wasn't bankrupt and bleeding money.

duckwa: I believe that's just New Brunswick (my neighbors were in Ontario).

But no health care system can be perfect, and there are certainly problems with any one that you look at. The thing is, our system has problems that are much much more serious than in any other industrialized nation. We're third word in that respect.

Exactly Duckwa, they do good work but just cant manage the money. The folks in DC just don't know how to manage money.Just another prime example.

Telefunkinu47: Sure, just trust the health insurance industry. They manage your money just fine--all the way to the bank.

There are plenty of people in Maine and other rural areas in the US who live more than 30 minutes from a hospital. The Blue Hill Memorial Hospital just closed down its obstetrics division. That means that expectant mothers from Brooklin and Sedgwick and others towns on the Peninsula will have to plan their labor very carefully! How would you like to be taking that bumpy ride for over an hour while in active labor? I don't even want to think about it.

Peaches, I wont disagree with you on that.

Look at the tallest buildings, they are usually owned by some insurance agency.

The one problem I have is DC couldn't run a yard sale and get it right.

I'm for some kind of change, but get it right the first time.

Canada?

The man who put their system together in the late sixties now says it is a failure and was a mistake.

The Blue Hill hospital is owed MILLIONS by the State for sevices they provided but have not been paid for. It goes back years.

Do you disagree, anne-of-mdi?

Woodsock is a town of 6 to 7 thousand people. Around 10,000 in the greater Woodstock area, but at least 6,000 in a 5 square mile area. Yes I realize that everybody can't live next door to the Hospital. I just don't think you can say that isn't a major negative effect of the cost of universal health care. If it takes a hour to get my kid to the hospital after getting hit by a car or something, the fact that it is free wont matter much to me.

I can't believe I (or anyone) am actually engaging someone in discussion, who uses the USPS as an example of a govt success.

Excuse me while I find a hammer and hit myself in the head.

I guess it will work, I mean Obama's not worried about being 7 trillion in debt so if the government run health care goes in debt too it's really no biggie.

I guess we need to try it, who knows.

1:25 pm, why would I disagree with that?

1:28 pm, the point is it already does take people who live in rural areas more than an hour, and we don't even have universal or single-payer health care.

My new friend "the bag of rocks" just asked me why no one "gets it". Why no one can understand that the present system is going to fail, collapse and bring a big part of the U.S. down with it. Bag of rocks says that it doesn't make any sense to cling (and vehemently defend) to a system that is pricing itself into oblivion. That has already priced itself unavailable for 15% of Americans and knows that number will continue increase every year. Bag of rocks is shaking its head in dismay at the lack of intellect.

You people have made bag of rocks cry.

Thanks, now my desk is covered with mud.

Point is that 6000 (up to 10000 during business hours) in 5.2 square isn't rural. If thats the case then close all the hospitals in the county and we can drive to Bangor to save money.

1:55 pm, I have no idea what that means. Are you talking about the population of Bangor?

1:46 pm, Sorry about the mud. All the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn't put Bag of Rocks back together again! Great analogy. But of course the answer is they defend it because the GOP has turned it into a partisan issue.

Maineexpatriat,

If pricing is the issue, how is the government going to lower prices without lowering the level of service?

MaineExpatriat, I agree that something needs to be done. But to make the change that is necessary 1 out of every 6 people will be out of work are adversely affected by the actions that need to take place to actually save everyone money. All of the major cities in this country are built around building built by and operated by insurance companies. We have changed from being a country that produces things to a country that services other people. We have screwed ourselves because of this. We have allowed the government to be run by corporations because they are in the eyes of the law just individuals. They can lobby the federal government just the same as you or I. They problem is they have huge sums of money and unlimited resources compare to you or I. They need to make drastic changes to corporate law so that they are not considered private entities like we are. They aren't, and common sense tells everyone in the world that except the government. The fight needs to be change but we need to change things the right way or we are going to be in deeper than we are now. If we go with the changes that they want right now we are going to be screwed big time. Worse than at any time in history. They are trying to put things in this legislation that has little or nothing to do with health care just because they know that everyone wants health care change. We are going to lose a lot because of this. We need change, but lets change what is really broken that is causing the health care system to be broken, not make a bigger mess just in the name of change.

re: boogyman 2:10pm

MaineEx: "bag of rocks, would you like to take this one?"

bag of rocks: " Well I'll try. 1). The government will not be in it to make a profit beyond the dreams of avarice. 2). competition. I think that's it MaineEx."

MaineEx: "Bag of rocks, well said. Please stop crying"

anne, my cost to insure myself and employees comes to about $8,500 each. I don't believe I have ever said $14,000 a year is nothing to me, it's alot to anyone.

I also have never said that under-insured hard-working people are undeserving. What I have said is that the government can't do anything efficiently, and assuming that if the government takes anymore control over the healtcare industry, costs will go down is just utter nonsense.

And when I am being constantly lied to by the president, like when he says if I like the coverage I have now I can keep it, then turns around and says he is going to go after the profits of health insurance companies, it is pretty clear that he is saying one thing and planning another.

It really does not matter what I say to you, you want someone else to pay for your health insurance so you can live the lifestyle you want, and to you anyone who makes more than you is just a greedy pig. Nothing I say will change that.

MaineAc: I've already stated I do not support the present plan. I'm simply trying to get SOME over the nonsensical hump that all's swell in health insurance land because some people (like me) have insurance through our employer. In 10 years, 1/2 this country will not be able to afford insurance. That is going to destroy what little is left of America by then. Can you say "new third world country". (think bankruptcies)

Anne: by definition bag of rocks is pretty hearty. I'm thinking of revoking its internet privileges. Bag of rocks isn't used to finding people that it's smarter than and it's been a very stressful period for it.

Anne: I hear you about the bumpy ride,etc. re 1:16 PM This happened to me when I was in labor with my first child; wow.....all those bumps during a long ride, even if it was in an ambulance (in very northern Maine. )! But, it was another 18 hrs after that before he came, so I guess the bumpy ride was just part of it! However, I get your point....about distance and living in rural areas. Not good. I just find it interesting that many Canadian people I have talked to are satisfied with their healthcare.....and this was at random......I did not just choose people who already felt favorably about it!

Anne @ 2:03, funny how you always get confused when you lack an answer. Woodstock = Over 6000 people (up to 10,000 during the day) in an area of 5.2 square miles isn't rural. You dismissed the closing of the Canadian Hospitals @ 1:33 by saying people in rural areas already travel over a hour for emergency care. When you live in a rural area that distance is a risk you take, but its hard to argue that it isn't far more dangerous for that many people to now be that far away from the hospital. They had a hospital in the city center instill it and a dozen other hospital in the province were closed or moved to be centralized for saving money. That is very much a negative effect of universal care.

Maineex, you being an accountant, I would assume that you know that profits are a result of efficiently managing costs and ensuring that the value of each dollar spent is maximized accounted for. Just because the government is not in it for a profit, does not mean that the forgone profit automatically is diverted to efficient expenditure.

Anyone have a link to show the percentage of profit to gross revenue for Health insurers? Is it out of line with any other industry?

Anne: I have absolutely now complaints about the postal service either....and it is still nice to get a card or letter once in a while by regular mail; email is great, but the other seems more personal sometimes!

MaineExpatriat: Love your bag of rocks description.

peaches: Re 11:53 AM Yes, I figured that out about that poster. I told him in no uncertain terms, and very clearly, that I did not dispute what his daughter had experienced. In his next post, he writes : "I take it you dispute my daughter's experience.", etc etc..... Unreal. And add "controlling" to your list! I am sure he can find other folks to communicate with on here, and that is his right.

2:26 pm, you don't express yourself very well if you believe that you "have never said that under-insured hard-working people are undeserving." And to write "...to you anyone who makes more than you is just a greedy pig" is just insulting. I couldn't care less how much you make and -- news flash -- I don't believe anything you say anyway. But I will say that you are an insulting, disgusting, and aggressive bully who seems incapable of taking part in a civilized discussion.

And when an insurance company manages costs, it gives CEO's bonuses and refuses to cover an individual because of "pre-existing conditions".

And what industry are you planning on comparing it to?

ditto

Anne: "No complaints" about postal service. And I guess 44 cents for a postage stamp would still be considered reasonable. Most of us don't send tons of things through the mail anymore anyway. I have never had any difficulties in receiving anything (small pkgs etc) through the mail from friends and family out of state either. Quite a satisfied customer.

Cher, I for sure am not trying to say that everybody in Canada hates universal care. And as for Canada as a whole, I don't even know how things work. I am unsure if this happened all over Canada or if it was a New Brunswick thing. I am only familiar with N.B. as I live next door (I CAN SEE CANADA FROM MY PORCH) and went to school there in the 7th and 8th grade. I'm just pointing out that everything isn't perfect and that is a major side effect of the universal plan they are using.

duckwa, 2:49 pm, don't hold me accountable for your incomprehensible posts. So this Woodstock, is it in Canada? Or is it Woodsock? Is it New Brunswick, perhaps? Because there is also a Woodstock in New York. Why do you care anyway? If you don't want your hospital to close down, what do you plan to do about it? Are you saying health care reform is going to force your hospital to close down? Is that what you're babbling about? Stop expecting other people to connect the dots for you.

Insurance is to protect against an unknown. If you get a lot of speeding tickets, car insurance companies can refuse to insure you because the statistics show that you are bound to have an accident. You can't go insure a car that is already demolished either. If you have a pre-existing condition, then yes, insurance is probably not going to cover it. Thats why it is called insurance and not medical reimbursement.

Why don't we force auto insures to pay insure people who have had 3 DWI's, and have them pay the same as the person with a perfect driving record, and just spread the cost evenly accross all of the insured?

boogy, I don't think you are a greedy pig. You could stand to lose a few pounds... and you do have kind of a pig shaped nose though. How will you ever go on living life after 2:55??

People, when someone points out the Post Office as a negative, it doesn't mean any thing that they manage to put a letter in your box, and yet lose millions of dollars doing so. Compared to other private and (gasp) for profit business that make money doing the same thing.

You guys need to go to Jib Jab and check out the latest Obama video. Hillarious.

http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/hes_barack_obama

duckwa: I was just talking in general....not really disputing what you said, in this case. This whole healthcare thing is very dicey .....I am just hoping for a good outcome when it finally happens.

There is a Woodstock, New York...... also, Woodstock, New Brunswick, right? I know there is a Woodstock in Canada. I thought it was near New Brunswick? Will have to google, I guess, to refresh my memory! Thinking there is also a Woodstock, Vermont but may be wrong on that.

Thank goodness they've all gone off to watch cartoons.

Captainandy @10:55-You forgot a few--

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED! (We all knew this, because health care is rationed in Canada and Britain, but Obama kept saying it would not be).

Pg 42 of HC Bill – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You will have no choice!

Pg 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.

Pg 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specifics20of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your Healthcare!

Pg 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Government mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation for illegal aliens.

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.

Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

Pg 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Government Monopoly.

Pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ AMA - Th e Government will tell YOU what you can earn.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & $400k who don’t provide public option pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans’ finances and personal records.

Pg 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill – Doctors – doesn’t matter what specialty – will all be paid the same.

Pg 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally, value of humans.

Pg 265 Sec 1131Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Pg 268 Sec 1141 Federal Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Pg 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Pg 280 Sec 1151 The Government will penalize hospitals for what Government deems preventable readmissions..

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission - Government will penalize you.

Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion20- Government will mandate hospitals cannot expand.

Pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!

Pg 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures which of course forces health care rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc., forcing people into Government plan.

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. HC by phone.

Pg 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life prodding.

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Pg 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.

Pg 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients’ health deteriorates.

Pg 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services/Non profit orgs. (ACORN Medical Services here?)

Pg 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION. 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization. (Like ACORN?)

I guess no one had anything good to say about social security????

(IARPOW) I'M A Real Piece of Work....

But the Postal Service is not a private business!! I, for one, was not saying every business should be run like the Post Office. I am saying that for many many years, it has provided an essential service and that I have been satisfied with it. Times are changing....people are online....do a lot of their mailing and business online. That is also a big reason for changes in the Postal Service losing money.....one should look at the total picture.

boogyman, you can't compare a human life to a wrecked car - in fact attempting to do so is inhuman. Furthermore, insurance companies have canceled policies because someone had cataracts so they won't treat them for a gall bladder. People have died, people have ended up on the streets losing everything, because they didn't have insurance. Companies have gone under, people retained their insurance under Cobra, then when the Cobra expired they were denied further insurance because they had pre-existing illnesses - like cancer. Within 10 years, 1/2 of this country will not have health insurance and we will look like a 3rd world country. We are soon to be the only "civilized" nation in the world where our citizens are dying for health care (literally). We have great medical care for those of us that can afford it.

What affects millions affects us all. That simple fact seems to elude some of you. I have great insurance today. I can get treatment for anything and then some, today. But the world around me is going to collapse if because I have great insurance I'm considered "lucky"

Thanks to Obama, you can think of GM as the "new" postal service, yeah, they may make a pretty good car in the future, but Obama & Co. has ensured that they will never make a profit doing it, and the taxpayers will pick up the difference. Kind of like Amtrak in the 70's, what was supposed to be one year government involvement has turned into over 30, and they lose money every day.

3:03 PM, anne_of_mdi, I believe it is you that is babbling ever since I made a point that you tried to blow off. I am sorry that you didn't follow that in a discussion about comparisons to Canada's plan Woodstock N.B. meant in New Brunswick and not New york. I will type slower for you. Also funny that as you accuse other of being bombastic and not being able to discuss things you can't aknowledge that having less hospitals farther away from the people would be a bad thing. Is that to say for sure it would be the same here...NO. But it does mean that when people try to hold up Canada as a model, this point needs to be addressed. Simple, for most people.

Woodstock is a popular name for a city/town. Among others, there is a Woodstock in the following places: Vermont, Illinois, New York, Ontario, Canada , New Brunswick, Canada (the latter , southwest of the town of Wakefield, and situated on the St John River.)

3:18 pm, Surprise! That copy-and-paste was plagiarized from an ultra-right wing blog called Family Security Matters, written by some beau zeau named Larry Schweikart.

Read what the "libs" have to say about "Dr." Schweikart here: http://www.newshounds.us/2009/01/15/professor_larry_schweikart_gets_fourth_appearance_on_foxfriends_with_zero_counterpoint_fair_and_balanced_lmaorofllol.php

"boogyman, you can't compare a human life to a wrecked car - in fact attempting to do so is inhuman."

I was not, I was explaining what insurance is, and the fact that you continue to call something insurance that is not insurance at all.

You work for a law firm, why don't you ask the lawyers there to stop demanding ridiculous settlements for medical claims (or any other claim for that matter) and reduce costs for all of us? In fact, they get what 30% to 40% of those big claims, which can easily amount to millions of dollars; don't you think that’s a little excessive?

boogyman, I work for corporate lawyers, they don't handle personal injury cases.

Furthermore, your attempt to "explain" what insurance is compared apples to oranges and made you come off as a little "confused".

MaineExpatriat, I don't think anybody is saying that nothing needs to be done. And I know that you have said yourself that this plan isn't the right one. I just think a lot of us feel that their are better ways to fix the problem then to tell people it is their right that the government should have to pay for it. In a lot of ways it is like we are saying the system is really broken .... so we are going to expand it to twice the size to cover everybody and then run it with the most inefficient way possible.... government bureaucracy.

duckwa, okay, I'll bite. What does the hospital closing in Woodstock, New Brunswick, Canada, which apparently you can see from your house, have to do with health care reform in the U.S.? How about you connect the dots for us?

And I did indeed acknowledge that having fewer hospitals is a bad thing. You missed my post about the Blue Hill Hospital Obstetrics Unit shutting down? You seem very confused.

MaineExpatriat: The difference between you and maybe some others might be, that of course you are interested and concerned about your own situation (financial,etc.) but who does not feel it is just about taking care of oneself and leaving others in the dust. (maybe some concern about others as well.) Sure there are some people who take advantage of the system and abuse it.....it has always been that way and is very unfortunate and troubling. However, many others work hard and try everyday and struggle. People should not have to go without healthcare in the United States! Something is wrong with that. And having a lot of folks without healthcare (and god forbid children, the elderly,etc,) is not beneficial in any way....nor is it right. Must citizens of this country would agree with that.

The whole healthcare reform is still in the working and planning stages. We do not know at this point what it will turn out to be. So, if one is really concerned and unhappy with what they are hearing about it so far, they should probably do more than complain about it on here, and make their voices heard.....write letters, emails, call (in the case of the Republicans here, call or contact some Republican leaders. That is doable.)

Don't get all up-in-arms....I was not referring to Snowe and Collins who you dislike so much. There are Republican leaders (of other states ) in Congress, etc., that one can contact.

anne: Larry Schweikart....you have got to be kidding! (oh yeah.....l see now who posted that, and who he was addressing (10:55 AM) Yeah right......whatever I guess. Each to his own,etc.)

"Furthermore, your attempt to "explain" what insurance is compared apples to oranges and made you come off as a little "confused""

What exactly is your definition of insurance then?

I had six credits of insurance in college, maybe the instructor who had 40 years of experience running an insurance company did not know what he was talking about.

I emailed the President a rather heated and realllllly long email on his website, telling him what he was doing wrong. He has yet to call me and ask for a consult but I'm sure it's coming.

I had 15 in psychiatry... Doesn't mean I should hang out a shingle.

I had 16 in French, I still can barely speak it.

College credits mean if you get enough of them they give you a degree and nothing more.

3:46 pm, then I'm sure you won't mind if my auto mechanic removes your brain tumor!

On 7/27/09 at 3:18 PM, Lobstarok wrote:

YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED! (We all knew this, because health care is rationed in Canada and Britain, but Obama kept saying it would not be).

Lobstarok,

anne, cher and MeX are now frantically refreshing and giving the "thumbs down" to your post, guaranteed!

Bag of rocks just started giggling.

Maineexpatriot, I occasionally do consulting for mid to large companies. I can assure you, if what has been proposed actually happens (large companies being forced to basically pay the health coverage of small companies) a lot of companies will fold. Foreign competition will totally blow them out of the water, plain and simple. They will not be able to pass on the costs, and the hit to the bottom line would not make it worth continuing as a going concern, then what happens? The cost no longer being absorbed by those companies will have to go somewhere, and the middle class will take it from both sides, one larger companies that paid better wages will be gone and they will be subsidizing others healthcare through their taxes on less income.

I've said it before, what will happen is that the many will suffer for the few under any variation of these plans being floated today.

ANNe, again a sad tatic of yours. Fun for me I have time for your dot to dot.

1. 12:39 PM, peaches held up Canada as a Universal health coverage success..

2. 12:59 PM, duckwa pointed out a major issue it was causing in Canada or at least New Brunswick that I knew about

3. 1:33 PM, anne_of_mdi says it doesn't matter because rural areas already travel an hour for a hospital.

4. 1:55 PM, 2:49 pm duckwa explains that the amount of people in a small area in my example of Woodstock NB isn't rural.

5. 2:03 PM, 3:03 PM, 3:39 PM ANNE_OF_MDI is all of a sudden confused. Is that Woodstock, New York? Are less hospitals for more people a bad thing?

What does it have to do with the discussion? Does canada have universal health coverage?

6. Around 4:00 duckwa points out that anne should have avoided commenting on a point when her own retort didn't apply to the originial example, and her present attempts to blow it off as just confusion don't hold up.

I did not thumb it down....cannot be bothered. Nothing "frantic" at all. Find it amusing, not at all frantic...........just does not affect us to the extent some seem to think here. Anonymous posters....that is all it is.

MaineExpatriat: I will be honest....have been offline much of the time, and can only guess about the "bag of rocks."

No thanks anne, i can see the result from him already having removed yours.

boogyman... how many times does one have to say... I do not support the current plan before Congress.

I'd say it's like talking to a bag of rocks but I wouldn't insult bag of rocks.

Ahhh....... my chuckle of the day.

" who seems incapable of taking part in a civilized discussion" preceded by "you are an insulting, disgusting, and aggressive bully"

Now that's really civilized!

duckwa, give it up. Show me where you wrote the words Woodstock and New Brunswick in the same post. Show me where I wrote "it doesn't matter." Again, show me where you wrote the words Woodstock and New Brunswick in the same post. Item 5, now you're just getting ridiculous. Item 6, whatever.

So what do you propose miss "my bag of rocks is bigger than yours".

Ms. Wilson -

Do you really believe that the solution to controlling health care costs is for the government to become even more involved in running it? The next time you get stuck in traffic during a rush hour, take a look around you. Chances are that 9 of the 10 drivers around you are there due to a profit motive. Take a long look at Medicare/aid - the costs have been astronomical. Because the government can print money and are not particularly accountable to the public, they will put private insurance companies, who survive on profit margins, out of business.

Mr. Bryant -

The media has done a hatchet job on Ms. Palin, so I don't know why you see it as infatuated. However, they are head-over-heels in love with Mr. Obama, perhaps the most over-exposed public official in history. Ms. Palin is the real deal, and mr. Obama is a fraud (stop to count the number of campaign promises he has broken - dozens upon dozens).

Lobstrok - thanks for sharing some details of the health care bill. Perhaps some will read it and think twice before assuming that the government has only the best motives at heart.

CNN Money (no conservative organ) has posted five freedoms we will lose under the proposed health care "reforms:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/health_care_reform_obama.fortune/index.htm

1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan

2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs

3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage

4. Freedom to keep your existing plan

5. Freedom to choose your doctors

The author concludes by stating:

The best solution is to move to a let-freedom-ring regime of high deductibles, no community rating, no standard benefits, and cross-state shopping for bargains (another market-based reform that's strictly taboo in the bills).

Please say NO to government controlled health care!

I guess those of us who have actually paid attention through all of these posts knew he was referring to Woodstock N.B.

Guess some people just have a problem seeing the obvious.

boogyman, where does he write Woodstock N.B.?

boogyman... If I could write a National Health Care plan, I'd be more than a law-firm accountant. Furthermore, I've written out and "outline" a kazillion times already.

Anna of MDI, your the one calling people confused but was unsure if Woodstock refered to the one on the Maine/ canada border in a conversation about the Canadian health care system. Nough said. Besides as I have told you many times I can only waste time on here while I'm busy getting that free health care. Now its after 4 and , sun is coming out, and I'm taking the boy to the ball park. I feel fairly confident you will still be here in the morning. It must have killed you being banned all that time. Talk about losing your lifes purpose. 4:12 PM, DougRichards makes a good point. Funny how you accuse others of that when the simple fact that is easy to go back and look at is that the tone of these blogs was far nicer and very much elivated while you were gone. There is your homework for tonight. Find more then 3 posts were people felt the need to get nasty in getting their point across while you were gone. You know what they say about bad apples.

Why are you asking me, you said yourself you don't believe anything I say. Ask spike.

She's only a click away from another long time out duckwa, but because if the sun, I'm willing to tolerate a little more today.

It was announced today, that 10% of healthcare costs today, are related to obesity!! 10% Yikes! Sad......

"boogyman... If I could write a National Health Care plan, I'd be more than a law-firm accountant. "

Funny, there is a former SNL comedian who thinks he's qualified to do it. And when all is said and done, it's going to look like thats exactly who did it.

boogyman, When the only thing you can bring your arguement around to at the end of the day is "I didn't know which Woodstock in a conversation about Canada's system" then one should feel more pity then contempt. Funny thing is it was never even addressed to her and if she didn't have a counter point that address the actual question then she could have just ignored it. But now I might be getting confusing again. Just like you were confused to think you learned anything in hours of class time. Don't you know that knowledge isn't released untill you graduate.

Boogyman: you wrote,

"She's only a click away from another long time out duckwa, but because if the sun, I'm willing to tolerate a little more today. "

--- so you have the power to get people "timed-out" ? Really? I find that hard to believe.

Tony shame on you. I thought you were pretty clear it was Woodstock NB..

Anyone has the power, not just me.

MaineExpatriat: "Timed-out"?? You mean, removed from posting for a while?!

The condescension is just dripping on here....maybe it is the humidity!

But instead, what they do now is just shut down the comments. So last week, all was going well until one particular persondecided to resort to her old hate spewing ways, and ruined it for everyone.

Boogy doesn't have the power to have people timed out, but there is a few that do post here that have or know someone that can make it happen. One had a poster number 67..AKA Dave.

Just like that..

Re 5:10 PM.....??? That is a bit cryptic?? Interesting...

Should of read has not had.

Telefunk/SD...No, I was referring to the end part of your remark....unless you typed it incorrectly, it appears you are insinuating that david (with all the numbers after it) is someone who does have that ability ...number 67. Oh well.....guess it is something "secret"....ha ha ha...

There's a pretty good article out today that says if we do nothing, health insurance costs will skyrocket and millions more will lose coverage. Health insurance is not like car insurance. One can choose not to drive. But it's immoral to compare sick people to bad drivers. Single-payer, government-funded health insurance is the way to go, and the closer Obama can get us to that, the better. I believe millions of people agree with me and it WILL happen. Eventually.

Again, goverment "reforms" have been complete failures everywhere. The savings never materialize. The costs go out of sight and the quality goes in the toilet.

The goverment bureaucrats are the only winners.

Lloyd: Ya just don't get it......Please Please Please let Sarah Palin be the Republican nominee in 2012....Please....Please....Please....It will finally show without a doubt that the Republican Party which once CLAIMED to stand for smaller government and conservative fiscal policies has now been permanantly hijacked by nutcases who want to micromanage the lives of all Americans with whom they do not agree...while at the same time carrying out the same behavior they claim they are against...using the whole thing as a smoke screen all the while to the fact that everything they do is all based on a money grab while suckering their trailer park small town base into following them over issues like gay marriage...and these idiots keep falling for the same BOO scare tactics......sigh...PLEASE let Palin run and MAYBE the 25% of the vote she picks up will kill off this party of hypocrites.

"But it's immoral to compare sick people to bad drivers. Single-payer, government-funded health insurance is the way to go"

Again, I was defining what Insurance is. Clearey you have no idea what insurance is, because you keep calling what Obama's plan insurance.

Forcing (and it will be forcing) the Majority of Americans to give up plans they are happy with is immoral, taking away their rights of the majority of Americans to chose how they care for their own health to pay for the care of the less than 10% of the population that has no coverage because they truley can't afford it is also not only immoral, it is just plain stupid.

boogy, people know what insurance is, your analogy was a poor one.

As much as dislike Obama's plan, it does not force me to give up my coverage. My company offers health care now, it will continue to do so if the Obama plan passes. Nothing will change there. It's closer to 15% that don't have insurance and that number is going to continue to grow at an alarming rate. Meaning a National Health Care will eventually be essential to keep America a First World country.

There are many reasons to be opposed to Obama's plan, I've listed them numberous times. However, it is a bad idea to misconstrue the true outcome of the plan. On other threads (not you boogy) there's the "they'll let me die" when I get old posts. Truth is you have more of a chance of being rejected for insurance now than you will under the Obama plan.

And again. I reject Obama's plan because:

1). It will force small and medium sized businesses to supply a minimum of 60% health care benefits to their employees if they have a payroll over $500,000 a year - this will bankrupt many small/mid-sized companies. 2). They may start taxing those of us that do receive company supplied benefits. Will cost many lower middle and middle income Americans to pay one to two hundred dollars a month in new taxes, that will be more than enough to bankrupt many lower middle income Americans 3). The plan requires that all Americans have health insurance or the goverrnment will steal 2.5% of their salary. To begin with - isn't that Fascist? Furthermore since the plan only forces employers to cover up to 60% of health insurance the additional 40% would have to be carried by the employee, this could bankrupt many moderate and lower income Americans. 4). This will give bloated insurance companies 50,000,000 new victims which will not lower costs. In fact it may facilitate the continuous spiraling upwards of the costs because now we'll all be required under law to have insurance.

It is a bad plan. Poorly thought out and potentialy finacially devastating. There are tons of reasons to reject it based on its own lack of merits. There is no need to add any to it.

"As much as dislike Obama's plan, it does not force me to give up my coverage. My company offers health care now; it will continue to do so if the Obama plan passes. Nothing will change there."

If you believe that, you are not paying attention. Obama has said nothing will change, then he says that he wants to "go after the profits" of insurance companies.

Think like an accountant. If you have a policy with an insurance company, then you should be aware that part of the premium you pay is going towards their profit. I understand that, I like my carrier, they do a good job, and they have helped me keep costs down while still providing good coverage. Why should they not make a profit? If Obama "goes after" their profit, then I can certainly expect one of two things to happen: 1) they will not be able (or willing) to offer the level of service they do today for less profit or reward, and my level of coverage will suffer 2) they will simply not offer the coverage.

So saying nothing will change is simply naive.

Boogy... read the fool plan. It's frustrating talking to you with comments like "then you should be aware that part of the premium you pay is going towards their profit" a two year old knows that, so stop treating it like wisdom.

Going "after the profits" meant a competitive plan that would drive the prices down. That hasn't manifested so even that part of the plan isn't going to work.

So saying something that is inaccurate because you misunderstood one sentence the President said that isn't even in the plan is simply naive.

hankwilliams: Yup, millions of people (or at least close to that) do agree with what you said.

Drinky: But those people appear to honestly believe Palin could become President. Good luck with that. And many times it is those who live in harsh and disadvantaged circumstances who are the ones who vote for policies that do not benefit them or lead to some kind of improvements. Cut off your nose to spite your face kind of thinking. If it works for them I guess....of course everyone has a right to their opinions.

"Going "after the profits" meant a competitive plan that would drive the prices down. That hasn't manifested so even that part of the plan isn't going to work. "

If I have to explain tto you why this makes no sense, then you wasted your money on your accounting degree.

boogyman, this coming from the man who yesterday informed me his 6 credits in a couple of college health insurance classes made him an expert. Look up the speech. Read it. Understand it. Then read the health care plan that's on the table. The speech was months ago and has nothing to do with the plan.

This is getting beyond tiresome.

Can we discuss facts for a change instead of something you think you kinda heard and then developed an entire scenario around.

Unfortunately, no one seems to see the easier plan as well as the CHEAPEST way for our Gov't to go if it insists on making legislation on health care. One of the main reason our health insurance is is so unaffordable is due to the obscene claims being made on it. If you go to your doctor without insurance and only cash payment, a physical for example will cost you (just an example not factual figure) $80, however if you have insurance the doctors will put the claim in for $170.00. No one can tell me that hospitals don't overcharge for thier services and supplies ESPECIALLY to insurance companies. An asprin that would cost us $5.00 for a whole bottle is charged as $17.00 by the hospital for ONE PILL. If health care providers were legislated to not charge these outlandish and frankly highway robbery charges the insurance companies would also be more inclined to pay the bills submitted and we as individuals wouldn't have to pay the excess. Also, legislate Insurance companies to not be over a certain percentage of rate just as municipal businesses are regulated. Then those of us who pay taxes and work our butts off to scrape a living wouldn't have to support those who either cant or wont work. Also those that are just having a hard time but work to get ahead can also afford insurance and medical care. Presciption drugs are another option of legislation for forcing these pharmacutical companies to no longer charge $120. per pill for something that after all costs associated with making it cost only .02 cents. For some reason (lobbyist gifting I assume) Government officials seem to overlook the obvious and force us as hard working tax payers to front the cost for these foolish ideas they come up with. Hope legislators enjoy the perks that the insurance, medical and pharmacutical company pay them.

Btw, so no thinks that I'm against businesses making a profit, its far from that. What would be the point of being in business otherwise. However, raping the consumer due to the consumer having no other choice.. that I'm against.