I'm all for wind/solar/geothermal...however Maine just legalized industrial hemp...can we not have a civil discussion of its possibilities, devoid of the "marijuana" overtones?

Sure we can Beelzebubba,

As soon as the Federal government lifts the ban developing Industrial Hemp, by passing H.R. 1866 Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2009.

Thats the one drawback of Maine's legislation. It doesnt have much teeth.

It cant really get off the ground till the Federal government gives its blessing.

votehemp.com has alot of the info about Maine's and other states newly enacted laws and pending state and federal legislation regarding industrial hemp.

But isnt frusterating.

So many uses, so many voids, so many sollutions could be made if we would just permit Industrial hemps growth.

It's definitely a piece of the puzzel that is going unnoticed and overlooked.

Stetson Mt wind farm is not on the grid. Stetson II is being built from tax payer's hard earned money. All the permits First Wind is getting so easily from Maine will be useful if gov baldaci can pull off the second half of the scam. Install 1.2 billion dollars of transmission lines through Maine. This is so the power can be sold to Mass. Carbon credits are being sold illegally now by First Wind.

When LURC approved the building of Stetson I , they knew there was no room on the grid. This can be proven in a court of law.

Our electricity rates will go sky high. Many of our representatives should be going to jail now. This is too big to say "Oops , I did not know."

They want to build green stuff..good. But let these businesses who will make a lot of money do it the right way, use their own or stock holders money...not taxpayer money.

I agree with green power, however, the power being produced by these windmills is going into the New England grid not Maine. We are seeing no advantage. However, the windmills companies are seeing lots of advantage between the federal write credits and the credits being given through the Tax Incremental Incentives (TIFs) which the towns and counties are giving to them. The counties do not have a clue at the harm that is being done by these tax incentive programs. All they care about is that they want to make themselves look good.

Jonathan Carter and I finally agree on something: “The problem is they are not being driven by ecological sense. It is being driven by greed.” I get the need to lessen dependence on fossil fuels, but let's not trade one environmental disaster for another! Mainers are so desperate for any kind of industry that we just rolled over and embraced this ethnology wholeheartedly without considering the long term damage to our environment, wildlife, and oh yes, wallets! What do we really know about First Wind? How long will they be in business? How solvent is the company? Where will this transmission line cut through Maine? Will Maine electricity rates go down? Baldacci knows his tenure in the Blaine House will not be viewed fondly or as especially good fro Maine so he is just grabbing at anything that falls in his lap. There is a reason this is all coming so easily, If it sounds too good to be true it probably is ....

And did you all know these things actually catch fire. Check out these photos:

http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/03/28/wind-turbine-fire/#

http://www.windaction.org/pictures/1054

"Flowers said wind energy is now economically competitive with other new energy sources being installed due to the cost of pollution controls and future uncertainty over the price of fossil fuels. “Wind is fully competitive with most markets of new generation of traditional sources,” he said."

Listening to such nonsense is how we got into this mess. Wind generated electricity costs over $100 per MW to generate with mountain top wind turbines, even more with deep offshore rigs. Electricity is selling for $35 per MW in the day ahead market. There is no way wind power is competitive with Maine's existing bio mass, hydro, or natural gas generators. If First Wind had not received the $115 million bailout from the treasury it would have gone belly up. The government is bailing out this industry with massive transfers of our tax dollars that would be much more cost effectively spent on conservation and efficiency programs.

2700 MW of wind power will destroy thousands of square miles of Maine's western mountain scenic viewsheds. For what? About 4% of the electricity used on an average daily basis by the New England grid. IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!

Is your legislator or governor a WIMP, i.e. Wind In Maine Pusher?

"Our electricity rates will go sky high. Many of our representatives should be going to jail now. This is too big to say "Oops , I did not know." "

Time to make sure the certified letter informing them of the facts goes out to every representative so nobody can use the "I did not know" defense in court.

Industrial wind is NOT technically, environmentally, or economically sound. The fact is that every claim made by the wind industry and its financially-motivated promoters are represented by the opposite effect in reality. Unfortunately, we have arrived at a point in our legal culture where there is no penalty for deception and outright lies in the energy marketplace. The truth is:

- No coal plants have been shut down because of industrial wind.

- With over 100,000 industrial wind turbines installed worldwide, CO2 emissions have NOT been significantly reduced.

- Building thousands of turbines won't reduce the pollutants that cause smog and acid rain (Source: The National Academies of Science National Research Council Report).

- Because wind is neither reliable, predictable, or dispatchable, it provides virtually NO Capacity Value (specified amounts of power on demand), and therefore, can NOT replace our conventional power generators.

- Delivered Efficiency of U.S. power plants currently has a grim national average of only 30%, with 70% lost as "waste heat". The 70% lost as "waste heat" is greater than what it takes to run the entire continent of South America and Central America combined. Focusing on building new generating capacity without first addressing Energy Efficiency is nearly criminal.

Claims that wind is economically competetive with our conventional sources is ludicrous!

The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) reported in 2008, on a dollar per MWh basis, our government subsidizes wind at $23.34 — compared to our reliable energy sources: natural gas at 25 cents; coal at 44 cents; hydro at 67 cents; and nuclear at $1.59. Together, natural gas, coal, hydro, and nuclear produce 97 % of our nation’s electricity supply, and provide extremely high reliability and performance — each with an Capacity Value exceeding 99.99 %. Despite decades of these massive handouts to wind, the EIA states that wind still contributes less than 1 percent of our nationwide generation.

To put these massive subsidies into better perspective, Tufts economist, Gilbert Metcalf ran the numbers and found that the effective tax rate for wind is a minus 163.8 percent. In other words, every dollar a wind firm spends is subsidized to the tune of 64 cents from the government (OUR money!) — creating a free lunch for the Big Wind LLCs, and forcing taxpayers to pay for what is nothing less than a huge corporate welfare feeding frenzy.

Tom Hewson, Principal of Energy Ventures Analysis Inc., distilled the issue perfectly in his July, 2009 Power Engineering article, “Calculating Wind Power’s Environmental Benefits”, when he said, "Wind’s unpredictability means it truly has no generating capacity value, and its construction will NOT displace building any new coal or natural gas generating capacity. Grid reserve margins require wind-back up, and the inefficiency of quickly firing up a natural gas unit to meet erratic wind generation output means any emissions displacement is minimal. Wind is simply an additional capital cost which proves to be more than twice as expensive for the ratepayer." (See: http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2009/07/21/calculating-wind-powers-environmental-benefits/ )

It was ENRON who pioneered wind in the U.S. to avoid paying taxes. Now oil companies like BP are following suit because they stand to make an easy 25% on their investment at our expense. Industrial wind installations are simply profit machines for multi-national corporations that will devastate the environment they claim they wish to save. WAKE UP PEOPLE! GET INVOLVED! See: http://EnergyPresentation.Info & www.stopillwind.org

Here we go again... No Name- you have been touting the "Stetson isn't operating" flag for so long that you must have some proof. please put some facts out here or stop telling lies, if you really, really need me to can re-post the Bangor-Hydro link (for the 3rd time) so you can see it is operating. Has anyone looked at the wind side of this story or just convinced through the scare tactics of Windwatch and Windaction that wind is bad.

Marykaybarton- it looks like you have done some research, but a couple of things: i don't know of any type of plant that has had it's doors closed due to wind, but dirty producers do back off generating when wind generation picks up. 100,000 turbines may be installed world wide, but what is the capacity of the collective? 40+% of those turbines are likely to be rated less than 1MW. While wind is harder to predict than standard sources of energy, with weather monitoring and forecasting tools available it can be predicted. I do not understand why you state it being undispatchable. I haven't read about the heat loss you describe, is that pertaining to generation facilities that burn fuel/coal/oil/wood/etc for energy? If that is the case, it would seem that traditional power plants need some serious technology changes. Enron was not the company that pioneered wind into the US, there were many small companies who brought wind to the states, US Wind Power/Kenetech was one of first advanced turbine manufacturer here in the US. If anyone is interested, a lot of proven information is available at www.awea.org

Mary Kay Barton. Wow .Your comment would make a good hand out for the next time gov baldaci tries to get a group of vultures together.

WIMP ...good one.

Like that certified letter idea upthread . HMMMMM

http://www.careersinwind.com/

If anyone wants to see what wind technician jobs offer, take a look. The are well paying jobs with great benefits.

windmainer-just went to the site you listed. If you scroll to the bottom of the page it says- AWEA disclaims any knowledge with respect to the nature of the employment opportunities and assumes no responsibility as to the truth or accuracy of any employment listings.

They can't even tell the truth on the site you wanted us to look at! Toooo funny!

First of all , there were almost 50 at the 10-11 Am time press release FYI! That is alot for people who actually work for a living.

No fouler wind blows than the Industrial Wind Scheme in Maine

From Kurt Adams....Gaynor.....Baldacci.........Hinck...King....others

Sell the citizens a bag of wind, that they pay for...

Buy the lines for Iberdrola (WITH OUR MONEY) for the scam

Change or pervert legal process to get it done EXPEDITEDLY!!

If you can't do it, try changing the law, pervert process under the Citizens nose, Pervert the Constitution.

We pay twice, for next to no energy to Mainers.

Fooled again Maine Citizen? Ever wonder why we are poor overall in this state, and King is Rich...Baldacci on his way, only 1 .5 years to unemployment time thank goodness Mr. Governor!

We own Maine, not the Corporations. Free Power From Iberdrola we should have for this.

But watch your rates go up...

IT IS NOT GREEN , ITS GREED!

50 yrs ago politicians were Shills of 3 industries, railroad, timber and electricity. Today they are owned by 1 Industrial Wind!

Ruby- this is a regular disclaimer. Did you bother to look at the job listings? It was interesting to see that Cianbro is looking for a Project Manager in Maine.

PROTECT THE CHILDREN OF MAINE, VOTE YES ON QUESTION 1

We have tidal power, hydro power, hemp power (whatever that is not an insult just do not know about) and then there is wind power. With everything I have seen, wind power is on the bottom of the totum pole as being an effective, efficient energy source. We have spent what is it 4 or 5 yrs talking about Plum Creek and now we are going to have these eye sores all over the country side and breaking down in our oceans w/o any citizen input. This should be stopped ASAP. To bad we don`t utilize the tar and feather approach to bad behavior anymore.

windmainer, after seeing the disclaimer that said- assumes no responsibility as to the truth or accuracy of any employment listings. I didn't waste my time,maine has already heard enough lies and untruths from Wind people.

AWEA stated that the Stetson Mt windfarm was under contruction at the same time that they were selling carbon credits.

What are carbon credits? Imaginary stuff criminals sell to each other and have another excuse to hike our electric bills.

What is AWEA? Lobbyists for wind energy. Some more criminals

IT'S ABOUT FRIGGIN' TIME!.

Wind is the future of Maine. Drive through Washington County and you are likely to see personal windmills spinning and providing (relatively) free energy. Now if it were on a commercial level -- as it is in Europe -- we would have stable energy costs.

There are those who ask if wind power will result in rates will going down. Not likely. What it will prevent is rates going up as the cost of hydrocarbon fuels increase - which they must as they are depleted. In time, with wind, Maine would have some of the cheapest energy in the nation.

Ideally, as we install commercial wind generators, we would see the state also provide personal generators to remove residential home consumption from the commercial grid. That would provide a two-fold benefit: 1. lessen the economic burden on residents 2. provide additional commercially produced power for industry and export out of state (the latter increasing state income).

Its a Foulwind that Baldacci emits........

With great pleasure I want to share with you a significant action by Congressman Eric Massa.

PLEASE read Eric’s September 11, 2009 letter to President Obama on the recent DOE $74,600,000 grant to First Wind.

http://batr.net/cohoctonwindwatch/CohoctonWindmillsTOObama.pdf

Become energized! This is a strong reason to get involved with even more passion.

Eric Massa has been a friend and champion for a rational alternative energy policy for years. Now as our Congressman, he is taking proactive measures to stop the industrial wind turbine scheme that is defrauding the taxpayer.

The call for a GAO (General Accounting Office http://www.gao.gov/ ) investigation into the industry and specifically First Wind is a major development.

Citizen Power Alliance wants to thank all the individuals who have worked so hard to get to this point.

Now is the time to show your gratitude and demonstrate your active support for Congressman Eric Massa as he declares his re-election announcement this Saturday October 10, 2009 - 10:00 AM at the Centerway Square Corning, NY. Please join us at the rally!

In order to facilitate an easy and secure method to contribute to Eric’s campaign, our main publishing site BATR http://batr.org/ is hosting an Act Blue page that processes your donations. Click on the below link and look for the Act Blue box.

http://batr.org/ericmassa.html

In these difficult times, making a financial commitment is difficult for all of us. However, if we do not support an elected official who has the courage and fortitude to challenge the industrial wind lobby, our mutual efforts will fail.

A screen shot of the Act Blue page is at the bottom. Note the You Tube video on the page.

The message that Eric Massa demands accountability for unscrupulous wind developers needs to be shared with all of your friends. Use the BATR Eric Massa Act Blue service and forward to your own mailing lists. Visit the endorsement page http://www.actblue.com/page/batr/ and use the http://www.actblue.com/page/batr/asks/new link to send out to your contacts.

The constant and consistent theme of fighting corruption is at the core of Citizen Power Alliance. CPA needs participating allies to be successful. Eric Massa has always been there for us, now it is your turn to stand with him.

Finally, a wind forum is being organized. Massa’s office is working on inviting NYS elected officials, government agency staffers and the press. As soon as details are available, you will be notified. This is progress!

James Hall for CPA

windmainer...do not know anything about all the wind farm jobs. But from personal experience. A teen ager in my area was not interested in the security guard jobs when Stetson Mt wind farm was under construction.12 dollars an hour. I would have loved to have done it myself. No women security guards though.

A neighbor. three miles from the wind farm, just lost his job. First Wind was advertising for a positon right down his alley. When he called First Wind , they said they were not taking applications. He and his family were pro wind farm, seeing it as opportunity. Now....not so much.

Two very young people work at Stetson from Conn. First Wind does not hire locals.Sabotage issues. They have such nasty business practices that they know trouble may be down the road. Kinda' like a drug dealer carrying a gun.

I drive through Washington County a lot. I don't think I have ever seen a personal wind mill ...upthread. Where exactly are they? It is a big county.

James Hall...Big fan here in the state of Maine. Cohocton people out there ...thank you.

This is a situation ripe for shysters.

Read the following excerpt from a letter recently sent to President Obama by U.S. Democratic Representative (Eric Massa of NY State)and note what the good Congressman has to say about Mr. Voorhee's friend:

"Constituents in our region see these projects as criminal actions, and I have strongly opposed the actions of these companies and their affiliates. Canandaigua Power Partners, LLC and Canandaigua Power Partners II, LLC act as shell companies that deceptively operate on behalf of First Wind, which is currently under investigation by State Attorney General Cuomo for corruption charges in Cohocton and across the Northeast.

This is one of the most volatile issues in Western New York and the award of $74.6 million dollars to corrupt companies that have changed names time and again forming new LLC’s and new Inc.s but maintaining their business model of lie, cheat and corrupt at the expense of taxpayers has stirred great unrest in New York’s 29th Congressional District. To date, no electricity has been produced for sale out of the projects in Cohocton and the company has projected that there is none to come until the end of next year. Despite the lack of clean, renewable energy for Cohocton and the citizens of New York, this company has already collected production rewards for non existent energy that at this point is simply a prediction".

Governor Blag-dacci's chief counsel of 2-3 years, Kurt Adams, heads up First Wind's U.S. development.

It is way past time for a citizens march on Augusta with all citizens from all parties marching. The corruption on both sides has been demonstrated for along time. It is as plain as the bogger on your nose. It is time if you elected officials want to be called something other then a bogger, then you better start acting like what an elected official is suppose to act like. Look out here comes Tabor one heck of a demonstration.

Do you mean "booger" or possibly "bugger"? "Bogger" isn't in my dictionary.

The guv keeps digging his trench of hypocracy deeper & deeper. He outsources the further study of offshore wind energy to a firm in Mass. The turbines are built in Brazil & India. So exactly what manufacturing jobs will be created? None, pretty pretty windmills will be purchased from abroad. Wind power is a crock, domestic production of energy from hydro, nuke, oil & natural gas are the answers.

I wonder how much stock in GE Baldacci owns.

Ladyslipper-good point you made.

Spoke to someone about wind yesterday, who lives a couple of miles from the nearest turbine. He said that he sued to see game all the time and since the turbines went in, there just hasn't been any.

First things first.. the "public" does not pay for the wind farms. They are private investments that are leveraged off the ability to sell the power. To sell the power, you have to have a buyer. Maine is deregulated, SOOOOO, the energy portion of your bill comes from a competetive supplier. Those suppliers make their profit off of marginal increase on wholesale energy supply. Guess what? If they are buying the energy to make a margin, they are going to buy the cheapest source of generation available to make the largest margin. Last I knew, these wind farms are producing and the power is being sold. There is not enough to push the higher priced sources out yet.. you know.. the ones that have to buy fuel.

Yes, they get envirnmental credits.. called RECs. The REC system is nothing new, been around for 10 years. I didn't see anyone complaining when Biomass was getting guaranteed energy prices at close to double the present enery price all the while selling RECs. Biomass has raped the consumer FAR FAR more than wind has, or will.

First Wind can't be carbon trading if there is not a market for it yet. That is a no brainer. Your comments are ill-informed, misguided, and to be honest... just plain flat out wrong. Laughable wrong. Scarily wrong. Not even in the same city, much less ballparlk. Stop before you give the rest of the NIMBYs a bad name.

Wind is NOT the solution, but it is a part. Here is the great argument we read on here..... "They don't make energy unless the wind is blowing." Derrrr. Nice observation captain obvious. Wind needs to be part of the green mix, but we also need good base loaders like Hydro or Biomass. Wind has a fuel cost of ZERO dollars. ZERO. No fuel.. no need to burn natural resources. Why should it not be a part of the big picture. Anyoe stating that it is the ultimate solution is as misguided as those on here stating it has no place at all.

Think wind does a job on a hillside? Go check out where there used to be mountains in West Virginia.. that are now huge pits and mines for harvesting coal. This one is not even close. Shame on anyone saying wind destroys areas and can at the same time tout the benefits of coal or nuclear.

To the poster talking about how they catch fire.... what do you think happens when there is a malfunction at a plant that uses *FIRE* to produce energy? You think maybe it burns??? Even the playing field and do an equal amount of reserach on ALL forms of energy before you decide to pick on one.

Same people, same old tired one sided arguments.. same result. The rest of Maine is all for wind. Look at Oakfield. NO ONE has done more research on wind than the folks in that town, and they STILL voted in favor of building the farm. Until you can say that you have educated yourselves to that point, why not use that thing between your ears and go read something other that this one sided rhetoric from wind-action.org. Wind-action? Really? I have seen plenty of sites FOR gay marriage and AGAINST prayer in school... they must all be true too cuz I read it on the internet machine.

GoHeels said: "Wind has a fuel cost of ZERO dollars. ZERO. No fuel.. no need to burn natural resources".

NOT SO FAST. Wind turbines need to purchase electricity from the grid to operate themselves. It can be up to as high as 50% of what they produce.

Among the wind turbine functions that use electricity are the following:

- yaw mechanism (to keep the blade assembly perpendicular to the wind; also to untwist the electrical cables in the tower when necessary) -- the nacelle (turbine housing) and blades together weigh 92 tons on a GE 1.5-MW turbine

- blade-pitch control (to keep the rotors spinning at a regular rate)

- lights, controllers, communication, sensors, metering, data collection, etc.

- heating the blades -- this may require 10%-20% of the turbine's nominal (rated) power

- heating and dehumidifying the nacelle -- according to Danish manufacturer Vestas, "power consumption for heating and dehumidification of the nacelle must be expected during periods with increased humidity, low temperatures and low wind speeds"

- oil heater, pump, cooler, and filtering system in gearbox

- hydraulic brake (to lock the blades in very high wind)

- thyristors (to graduate the connection and disconnection between generator and grid) -- 1%-2% of the energy passing through is lost

- magnetizing the stator -- the induction generators used in most large grid-connected turbines require a "large" amount of continuous electricity from the grid to actively power the magnetic coils around the asynchronous "cage rotor" that encloses the generator shaft; at the rated wind speeds, it helps keep the rotor speed constant, and as the wind starts blowing it helps start the rotor turning (see next item); in the rated wind speeds, the stator may use power equal to 10% of the turbine's rated capacity, in slower winds possibly much more

- using the generator as a motor (to help the blades start to turn when the wind speed is low or, as many suspect, to maintain the illusion that the facility is producing electricity when it is not,‡ particularly during important site tours) -- it seems possible that the grid-magnetized stator must work to help keep the 40-ton blade assembly spinning, along with the gears that increase the blade rpm some 50 times for the generator, not just at cut-in (or for show in even less wind) but at least some of the way up towards the full rated wind speed; it may also be spinning the blades and rotor shaft to prevent warping when there is no wind§

Hopefully, the Governor's new initiative will be at least as successful as Dirigo Health.

He can't go fast enough!

Windmainer and Goheels, thank your for your insightful information and bringing back some rationality to the debate.

It is much appreciated.

ElectraGlide, regarding possible hemp power, hehe,

Industrial Hemp could be used as a Biomass fuel for industries, biodisel for vehicles, insulation to weatherize our homes, can be made into building materials, could be made into pellets to heat our homes like wood pellets, and 25,000 everyday products that we use everyday could be manufactored from hemp.

Industrial hemp could revitalize our farms, our manufactoring, our maine businesses and tourism.

Industrial hemp is a carbon neutral product as well. Imagine, other polluting industries could pay us carbon credits for growing Industrial hemp.

Homeowners could grow industrial Hemp on their fields and lawns. Come fall it could be harvested, pelletized, bagged and thrown into the pellet fire place and keep Maine families warm all winter long. It could help bring us energy independence without sacrificing our forests to get there.

Endless possibilities.

50 yrs ago politicians were owned by 3 industries railroad, timber and electricity. Today they are owned by 1 ---windpower.#megov

Thanks, jaygee, for the interesting explanation.

I have worked on every wind farm in ME and NH and I can see why people think this is a good thing........ BUT it's ludacris for those tree huggers to think ripping off an entire mountain top is more "GREEN" than a hydro dam, produces energy every day of the year!

jeeper- you said you've worked on every wind farm in ME and NH. Can you tell us if Stetson is putting energy on the grid and who they are providing it to?