Education head seeks analysis of gay marriage law effects on schools

so first they let homosexuals marry, then what man marries his sexy poodle and woman prefer a strapping young stallion?A literal pony stud!what if your schizophrenic? will you then be allowed to marry one male and one female at the same time or what about the Mormons those who have several wives producing babies for one man! will we allow that next? whats wrong with just keeping things the way god made them ??

When gay marriage was foisted on the people of Massachussetts, no one thought there would be an educational tie in, either.

If you think the same sex marriage bill passage won't lead to teaching homosexual "sex ed" you are sadly mistaken.

The slippery slope starts with gay marriage. Once that's law, it's all downhill from there. And guess what, the people that disagree with homosexual "sex ed" will find their complaints falling on deaf ears. Our educators will have no choice but to include homosexual relationships in their educational curriculum.

I for one reject this idea vehemently. And will be voting YES ON 1. To show my support for traditional Maine families and their children.

Let's take a stand for Maine and our Families. VOTE YES ON 1, IN NOVEMBER!

Parents should worry more about what their kids are smoking, who they are associating with, or if they are becoming teen mothers and fathers. I hope that Mainers are smart enough to see through this smoke screen of deception. Support equality, fairness, and the right of consenting adults to get married.

The Stand For Marriage people are simply BIGOTS who will use any and all lies and underhanded tactics to stop decent gay persons from having a relationship. Think about this. Next door to us live a gay couple that have been together for 41 years; they pay their taxes, (and at a higher rate than those of us married) yet they do not receive nearly any of the benefits their taxes pay for. On the other side of town lives a welfare queen with two kids and on AFDC, she is married to a drunk who is also supported by taxpayers; yet she is entitled to over 1106 federal and state laws those gay persons are not entitled to. I was at one time against gays and the marriage equality, but that couple next door proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they deserve the same rights as my wife and myself. Massachusetts has gay marriage and also has one of the lowest divorce rates in the country! Explain that. VOTE NO ON 1 and keep justice in Maine. Mormon money cannot buy our votes!

I still want to marry my bird

Jazz1

where do you get your facts?

massachusetts has one of the lowest divorce rates in the country......................

and your statement about "decent gay people" is definitely in question.

mainejeff : I agree that everything you said is correct , I do support your ideas as long as the adults are a man and a woman. I am voting YES ON ONE.

Gay marriage is just plain wrong ! The ads really don't matter.

To all the voters in Maine:

If you want to listen to the lies and being decieved by the christian civic league and raise your children to be liars and biggots also then go ahead,,,but there are many of us in Maine that think that everybody deserves equality and accept that the world is changing and has been for many years we will still vote No On # 1 and raise our children to respect and be courtious to all people wether they are same sex couples or not. Also Don't be surprised if your children someday come to you and tell you that they are in love with sombody of the same sex. You are putting so much pressure on your kids,when you should be worried about raising them not to judge, lie and decieve and accept people the way they are, and hope that whatever they do ,that they will be happy even if they end up in love with the same sex.

The information on the divorce rate in Mass came from the CDC.

"Just plain wrong." What more needs be said . . .

the day they start teaching that crap in my kids school is the day I start homeschooling! Stick to reading, writing and arithmatic Maine! Anonon... I choose to raise my children as Christians which means followers of Christ therefore the union between two men or two women is not natural or was in God's will and therefore we will stand against it.

Slippery slope arguments about marrying animals are completely irrelevant and out of place here. And if you're thinking that you're comparing homosexuals to animals, then please revisit your understanding of bigotry.

How Many Times Does One Have To Answer The Same Questions Over and Over?

On 10/8/09 at 12:58 AM, joyful wrote:

"so first they let homosexuals marry, then what man marries his sexy poodle and woman prefer a strapping young stallion?A literal pony stud!what if your schizophrenic? will you then be allowed to marry one male and one female at the same time or what about the Mormons those who have several wives producing babies for one man! will we allow that next? whats wrong with just keeping things the way god made them ??"

Bestiality - No, Illegal in All 50 States

Polygamy - No, Illegal in All 50 States

These are tired questions raised to inject fear into the issue...Same Sex Marriage has been legal in Massachusetts for a number of years and Bestiality and Polygamy has not been legalized there. Same Sex Marriage has been legal in Canada for a number of years and Bestiality and Polygamy has not been legalized there.

If you do not support same sex marriage fine. But injecting lies and fear is nothing more than hate mongering.

SinCity

I know several gay couples personally and they are very decent people. They have never hit each other. They have not cheated on each other. They both work. Pay taxes, etc....

I also know many heterosexual couples and they are very decent people also. They also have never hit each other. They also have not cheated on each other. They also both work and pay taxes, etc...

But I have also been to homes of heterosexual couples that have hit each other. I have also been to homes where they have stabbed each other.

Do homosexual couples beat each other, etc...sure they do. But to call into question the "decent" nature of a gay couple is just plain wrong and shows your "fear" of people who are unlike you SinCity.

First I find it appalling that anyone would say that allowing same sex marriage will lead to allowing a human being to marry an animal. Why are we comparing decent people to animals? After growing up with a very respected Methodist minister for a grandfather I have learned one important thing. THE BIBLE IS NOT LAW! The bible is only man's interpretation of God's word. My grandfather would have voted No on this question and so will I. I still like what some Atheists say "Why not let gay's marry, they should be miserable like the rest of us." I agree fully with mainejeff who wrote parents should be more worried about what their kids are smoking, and who they are hanging out with. I believe that we are all God's children and if he were against homosexuality then homosexuality would not exist. It is not the devils work! I see it as more of a test. A test in understanding and if we can live up to the commandment "love thy neighbor."

well said Cad_Man_2000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It may not be in the laws, or the policies of the school

system now, but those can be changed. If they are

facing these issues in Mass. now, we will be facing

them here in Maine if this is allowed to stand. Don't

think for one minutes that the NO people won't want

what is "equal and fair" in our schools as their next

step. These are our children and grandchildren we

are talking about people...We shouldn't have to pull

them from a public school because a certain group

of individuals wants to push their choosen lifestyle

down our throats. VOTE YES ON ONE !!!

Is "traditional " marriage taught in schools? If not, then why should "non-tradional" be taught? I guess I am behind the times, but I do feel that people who truly love one another and dedicate their lives to one another should have the same rights as those in a man/woman relationship; however, I do not believe that the curriclum in schools needs to change to bring attention to such relationships as in a special course...not unless the course is to include teachings that make traditional relationships as important or on an equal level as the non-traditional relationships. If these ads on TV are just to use "scare" tactics, then, I say shame on you. Allow folks to make their decisions based on material that is true and factual.

It is true and factual that they are facing this now in Mass,

I thought "Question 1" was about making children feel good about themselves?

I've listened to the "No on 1" radio ads again and again. Gay marriage is NEVER mentioned. The topic is, some people (hate filled bigots?) are against all Maine children being happy. Talk about "truth in advertising"!

If the referendum fails, you can be sure that the subject will be taught and promoted in public school. And why wouldn't it? It's the law!

3 and a 1/2 weeks to go.......................

Cad_man, apparently your grandfather wasn't aware that the bible writers were inspired by God himself (2 Tim 3:16). Why do you think a parent should be concerned with who their kids hang out with? Could it possibly be so that they won't be influenced by other kids that might lead them down the wrong road? Responsible parents spend so much time instilling Godly values in their kids, why would we want them influenced by those that don't uphold our values? You are correct we are all Gods children. We were also given free will as Gods children to follow Him and His teaching with all our heart and soul. Its sad how contrary this world has become to His very teachings. Sad indeed.

I wouldn't take an answer either way as long with standing. It could change just like that

Scenario: "OH, don't worry we would never influence or teach your little children too early in their development about the nurturing effect and nuclear family that is equally encouraged on all levels. Children you can be Gay or hetro (Non-Gay) and it's all good. Maybe both works too." Education can happen within the confines of the Lawand education starts at home."

I don`t know why but there are 2 commentaries today, but you have to click on opinion to see them.

Correct me if I am wrong; but I thought -- that just like me -- homosexuals are allowed to marry in all 50 states. In what way are they being prevented from marrying in any state?

Fear... bigotry... ignorance.

All that's demonstrated by the Yes Klan.

That, is sad indeed.

Don't forget about tool's and troll's, can't leave them out..

Jazz11 there are low divorce rates because few people are getting married anymore. They are shacking up instead.

And they will bring this in the school systems...whether it is in school curriculum or not some teachers will bring it in school systems.

Obama has appointed Kevin Jennings who works for the Department of Education and is a gay activist. Kevin was a teacher at the time when a 15 year-old male student approached and told him that he was having sex with an older man. Kevin told him ...hope you used a condem...So...a man with that mentality will not have the concerns of parents and students in mind.

uphold and protect the dignity of the human person and vote "yes" on one.

HRH419 :

Jumping the gun aren't you?

I didn't know that you could predict the future.

Atleast the people that are voting No are not trying to use kids to win a vote.

Just shows how indecent and deceiving,and misinformation that the yes voters can produce and can spread hate and ignorance to the children,,anybody that uses children is totally wrong. What about the children that have same sex couples? Do you know how you are affecting their lives? Anybody that would want to harm and make life harder for a child is as bad as a pedifile.

I already filled out my absentee ballot,,, and VOTED NO ON QUESTION 1 to make lives easier on the children of same sex couples.

I also have children from a past marriage and now my same sex partner and I are raising our 4 children fine. They are very happy with their life with us and are not without anything. We are raising them to be respectfull ,be courtious,and tolerant of others. maybe some of you should try the same thing,the world would be a better place.

Just the facts please...no name calling such as bigot or racist or homophobe if people don't agree with you...

they should be teaching safer sex practices to everyone in school, homosexual and heterosexual alike. the truth is, people are having sex. they need to know how to do it safely so as not to spread disease or get pregnant. and as for talking inclusively about all kinds of relationships, this is important so as not to ostrasize anyone who is different! What if you YES ON 1 people had a gay son or daughter? Would you want them to be ashamed of who they are and of who they love? I'd bet money that you wouldn't. Where is your compassion?

You're all part of the human race you know. Start acting like it.

all of you bigots out there... how did you get that way? why are you so angry at people for expressing their love? I am so endlessly curious about this. It makes no sense.

anonon: Perhaps you haven't been paying attention

to ALL of the ads. Do you seriously think that we

won't be facing this here next?

I have an interacial family - we are not bigots and feel same sex marriage is wrong. You offend me deeply when you bring race into this issue - this has NOTHING to do with race but a lifestyle decision!!

firefly wrote "hope you used a condem" lol hahaha condem. looks like education hasn't done you any good anyways, dear firefly. may you someday learn something.

protect our children from poor angry activists who are too dumb to learn how to spell!

I can only conclude from this that bigotry = idiocy.

VOTE YES ON 1, Then we won't have to worry about this problem.

firefly,

If you're acting like a bigot, you will be called a bigot.

Get used to it or stop being a bigot.

"Then we won't have to worry about this problem. "

Oh, how wrong Joe... the battle will continue. You will continue to see it in the papers, on TV... in other ads.

It's also coming to the national stage (but I'm sure you haven't looked into that). You'll see it there too.

You'll worry about it until marriage equality is granted to all citizens.

Of this I can assure you.

SinCity

how did you come up with your username? You're so against equality for all, and presumably think being gay is a sin..... so why are you condoning other forms of sin? Are you proud to have Sin in your username? If you don't like gay people, what kind of Sins are you okay with?

GAYS SHOILD NOT BE ALLOWED TO ADOPT, YOU CAN IMAGINE THE PRESSURE AND TAUNTS CHILDREN WOULD FACE IN SCHOOL AND LIFE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

8:55 AM, joesalters wrote: "VOTE YES ON 1, Then we won't have to worry about this problem. "

What a profound argument. Care to elaborate?

Sorry Joe, the problem won't go away when the vote is taken, whether it be yes or no. Remember last time the vote went through? See where we are now? Haters are hatin' and won't rest until the whole world sees things their way. No space for tolerance or compassion or love. Only hatred. Only a one way street. Only their way or the highway.

BIGOTS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO ARGUE OR PROTEST UNTIL THEY CAN LEARN HOW TO SPELL! All of us intellectual liberals are getting frustrated with the lack of respect for educated responses!

"SHOILD" lol

joesalters (8:59am),

isn't a pedifile used for toenails?

joesalters (8:59am), Did it ever occur to you that by making same sex marriage legal gay people would be considered equal as well and discrimination would die.

coexist, while were at it why don't we teach them how to safely drive under the influence.

What ever happened to the Bible's words against judging others? God gives everyone "free will", shouldn't you teach your children the bible and then practice what it preaches. There are so many things in this world that is evil and the devil controls to "tempt" our children. If you teach your children right, then they will understand that same-sex issues are just that- a temptation- and also that they should not judge others who have falling into temptation- that they should leave that to God himself on judgment day. I have gay family members and friends. Although I do not believe it to be God's Will- I do not judge nor hate. I do not keep my two boys from it- I teach them the bible and also not to hate- for hate itself is a Sin.

joesalters :

Not all same sex couples have adopted children,,, Me and my partner have all four of our children from previous marriages.

They are fine with the way we live,they go without nothing and we have raised them to love,be loved and have respect to all no matter who or what they are. Vote No On Question 1 and raise children to respect and treat everybody the way they would want to be treated. Don't raise them to judge,hate,and disapprove of others when it is not their concern.

Already cast my NO Vote On Question 1

4 HIM: 9:07 : )

That would be the very same Ken Jennings who complained that schools indocrinate kids to be heterosexuals.

Don't worry, there is no agenda.

greencat.... sounds like someone's tempted to become gay! but you probably "decided" not to because you've felt too ostrasized by your community and you've felt that to be who you truly are is wrong, doesn't that depress the devil out of you?

also, *there are so many things in this world that ARE evil* not IS.

but also greencat, in all seriousness, I do applaud your attempt at not hating. however, in your saying that being gay is wrong, as a temptation that God himself will judge on judgment day, and that you should avoid all temptations, and then saying you don't judge or hate, you are unfortunately (and probably not purposefully) not doing what you think is right. :( it's important to examine the self, the soul, the deepness of who you say you are and who you actually are. it's hard to reconcile the two, but we all need to try.

forHIMtoday, you're right, while WE'RE (I'm on a grammatical rampage, please excuse my capslock) on it, we should totes-magotes teach people to not drive while under the influence! right on!

"They are fine with the way we live.."

Sure they are! It's every child's dream to have their parents divorce and then get towed along into a new homosexual family. it's better than a trip to Disney World!

There are thousands of children being raised by same sex couples who are denied governmental rights and protections JUST because their parents are not allowed to be married and have their family legally recognized under the law. That is WRONG. Anyone who genuinely cares about ALL the children of Maine could NEVER vote Yes on 1...they would have to vote No on 1.

Homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. Any educated Christian would know that. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality.

http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm

http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html

http://www.christchapel.com/romans_inter.html

http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php

http://www.gaychristian101.com/

Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. Jesus, however, clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will.

This is very similar to the religious bigots of the past, where they took Bible passages to condone slavery, keep women down, and used Bible passages to claim blacks as curses who should be enslaved by the white man. People used God to claim that blacks marrying whites was unnatural, and not of God's will.

it IS, however, captainandy, every child's dream to live in a happy household. if the household is happier and healthier as a same sex household than as a heterosexual household (a "traditional" household) then the kids probably are a lot better off. A loving family is way better than a destructive family, traditional or not.

For those of you claiming homosexuality is a "lifestyle", that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don't choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html

Gay, Straight Men's Brain Responses Differ

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html

http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html

http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. "Nurture" may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.

And it should also be noted that:

"It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organisations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association."

But we don't need scientific evidence for this.

I shall ask you this. Are you male? (If not, reverse the questions to the other gender) If so, Are you sexually attracted to other men? Would you be able to enjoy sex with a man? Do you get sexual urges with a man? Do men turn you on sexually and emotionally? Could you be happy with a man sexually for the rest of your life? Does male/male porn or male sexual situations turn you on and arouse you?

If you are heterosexual, the answer should be no. Otherwise, you might either be bi-sexual or homosexual, and might want to re-evaluate your sexuality. It is well known that a lot of homophobes deny their homosexuality by being aggressive towards it, until they finally accept it. Most people know this is not a choice, and it would be ignorant claiming it so. I know a few gay people who went to a straight club when they were figuring out their sexuality, where women were putting their naked bodies all over them, giving them naked lap dances, not once did the gay men get it up or aroused. But just the picture of a naked guy gets them up easily. Tell me thats choice. Also, why would a gay person, knowing that you will have a rough time in society, knowing that you cant get married unless you live in certain places, knowing that people will pick on you for it, knowing that your closest friends and families might completely turn their back on you, choose to be gay, if they could easily be satisfied by the opposite sex? Because they can't. Simple logic there.

Here is why the slippery slope argument fails.

Let us take the 4 common arguments: beastiality, pedophilia, incest, and polygamy. First off, all 4 of these are fetishes, and irrelevant to homosexuality, which is a sexual orientation. Let me distinguish this for you using incest as an example. If a guy into incest is straight, he'll choose his sister, and if he's gay, he'll choose his brother. See the distinguishment? Now pedophilia and beastiality will never be legal, because both are non-consenting and harmful, whereas homosexuality is 2 loving consenting adults that is not wrong or harmful. Incest, also has been shown to lead to genetic defects, so that is also out of the question. Incest also is a fetish, not a sexual orientation. I have never seen a person exclusively attracted to their brothers/sisters etc. Which leaves polygamy. Now i'll prove why homosexuality also won't lead to polygamy.

Who the two people getting married are, is a completely different question in law than how many people can marry. The states have all agreed to prohibit polygamous marriage. They have given numerous public policy reasons and the prohibition stands.

Equal protect applies so long as a rational public policy reason exists to prohibit certain marriages.What is the rational public policy reason for prohibiting a gay couple from marrying? Six states and seven jurisdictions have said there isn't one.

No court or legislature has made a finding that letting two people of the same-sex marry will somehow permit more than two people of any gender to marry. Allowing prisoners to marry and allowing inter-racial couples to marry didn't make polygamy acceptable and it didn't make all married couples criminals or bi-racial. You have no point, you are relying on assumptions and "what ifs" that have been proven to be myths and false. There is no evidence showing gay marriage having a higher chance of leading to polygamy than heterosexual marriage.

All 50 states and the federal government have said there is a public policy reason to prohibit polygamous marriages. With 5 years of gay marriage in Massachusetts, no one has asked to marry more than one other person in Massachusetts, let alone say the 14th amendment of the US Constitution gives them that right.

The slippery slope is a myth meant as a scare tactic that's quickly becoming obsolete.

Why voting NO on 1 doesn't affect children.

Some parents were afraid their children would be taught about gay marriage in our schools. Somehow this would undermine what they teach their children at home and through their respective “churches.” Yet we teach our children that polygamy exists in the world, that other religions exist, even the existence of atheism. Teaching that gay marriage exists is no more an endorsement than teaching about other religions or cultures. How much difference would there be teaching that domestic partnerships/civil unions exist between committed loving couples of the same gender? If people are so insecure in their personal faiths that they feel threatened by the teaching of the existence of other faiths and cultures, then perhaps we should ban from our history and civics courses all references to the diversity of religions and cultures in our world. That would certainly prepare our children for living in a pluralistic society and world.

Also, why is it wrong? You cannot just ignore a fact of life, that homosexuality is a natural part of life and pretend it doesn't exist. We should be teaching and informing kids of tolerance, and that sexuality is just another part of human life that's not wrong. We should be teaching kids against discrimination and bigotry. We are not teaching them explicit details of gay sex, but the mere fact that gay marriage and homosexuals exist, and are a natural part of society and do harm to no others and aren't wrong.

Even in places where gay marriage is not legalized, children will learn of gay marriage, through television, internet, friends, etc. If you want to keep them in the dark, you better keep them locked in the closet from the outside world.

This was taken from another poster that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don't feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren't human.

"I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if "Gays" have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate "(Legal Document)" of our union his mother had him cremated and his ashes taken back to Missouri where we came from. That is only one example how painful it is. His suicide tramatized me so much and her disregard for my feelings only added to my heartach. That happened on March 21 of 2007 and I still cannot type this without crying for the trauma I have to endure each day. Oh did I mention I am in an electric wheelchair for life? Yes I am and it is very diffacult to find another mate when you are 58 and in a wheelchair."

The people who collected signatures in Maine to stop marriage equality did so by misleading people, lying, and using deception. These people who claim to be "right" or "moral" but then use evil, sinful, lying ways. Here's what one of my friends from Maine told me.

Sadly "Stand for Marriage Maine" collected many signatures by misleading people to believe they would not be able to vote unless they "registered" with those who were collecting signatures. At the Old Port Festival a woman at the top of Exchange Street was collecting signatures for the vote to ban gay marriage, but she was promoting it as if you were registering to vote. She said "Are you registered votes in Maine would you like to register here?" It was one sentence, she didn’t pause. I asked what we were registering for and she said "To determine if marriage is between a man and a woman or a man and a man or whatever." Then came the best part, she said "Would you like to sign so you can vote?" As if I couldn’t vote if I didn’t sign. She wasn’t telling people that it was a petition to stop gay marriage by putting it to a vote, she was convincing people to sign thinking that they had to or they wouldn’t be allowed to vote. There was nothing that even indicated what or why people where to sign. It’s not about Gay Marriage, it’s about Hate and Control. The fact they collected signatures so quickly only proves they preyed on the elderly and ignorant. This only provides evidence that many Mainers still have much growing up to do.

Do you really want to support people who lied to you, deceived you, who are trying to force you to spread discrimination and bigotry? Don't let these anti-gay people control your lives and choices. Support marriage equality in Maine and vote NO on 1.

I've stated many times that I feel all eduction on such matters belongs in the home, but I do have a question for Yes folks.

What, exactly, is your fear if it were indeed taught that same sex relationships are OK and that same sex marriage is a reality?

Just curious what everybody's so afraid of.

Coexist- Thanks for the grammar lesson-

I can see your point. But wether anyone believes that being Gay is right or wrong- Who is anyone to judge? That was my only point.

coexist- I agree that sex education should be taught to EVERYONE in school. In Sweden they start teaching sex ed. to six, yes 6, year olds and Sweden has one of the worlds lowest teen pregnancy rates and std rates. They, Swedes, figure that sex is a naturally human act and most become sexually active before the age of twenty so you might as well learn how to be safe. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070318/26sex.htm

I will be voting NO on 1 because I can not rightfully look at some of my close friends and family members who are homosexual and say- you do not have the right to marry and share your life with someone.

Would be kind of neat to see how many times the word bigot is used...

Seems to be the buzz word of the day..

Things like this happen to kids when same sex marriage isn't legal and those protections, rights, responsibilities and benefits aren't granted under the law.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/172554

Vote NO on 1 to protect ALL children!

I don't understand the clamor here. Homosexuality exists. We're here now as we've been all along with the rest of humanity. Why is the "vote yes" side so afraid that it'll be taught in school? What do you think will be taught, exactly? How to be gay? Don't think so.

To those on the fence about this issue, some of us who post here are gay...including myself. The majority of us are no different than the majority of straight people, other than our sexual orientation. All we want is what you take for granted...the right to marry the person we love, who in this case will be of the same gender. That's all. It remains about two consenting adults and nothing more.

The world is not going to come to a crashing halt over this. Your lives will go on unaffected.

Please be happy and let us do the same.

PROTECT THE CHILDREN OF MAINE, VOTE YES ON QUESTION ONE !

greencat, yes I'm aware of what your intentions were, and I'm glad those intentions exist within you. One of my points was that it's my opinion that you need to work a little harder for those intentions of yours to be true for you. But I do thank and applaud you for saying that it is not our place to judge.

tlcfarmer, did you take a Sandy Caron class at UMaine? That is one of my favorite examples. I love the Swedes, they have their heads screwed on nice and tight and right.

ShadowMan, I enjoy your ability to be out of the shadows, so poignant and true were your posts. Thank you!

While I agree that some parts of the ad are clearly disingenuous, so are parts of the ads of both sides. Somebody above used the "1100 rights granted to straight couples that gays don't receive" excuse. If you read that list and many of the "laws" they included, it is also disingenuous.

This not about "curriculum". its more about whats allowed as reading materials in school. Under the current law anyone who objects to a gay oriented book would likely lose a lawsuit. and these perverted books would be allowed in school libraries. THATS what people are worried about. This is great for the Vote Yes people. whatever the state concludes, people will not buy it. They think the average citizen in maine is un-educated and will blindly believe whatever they say.

Captainandy 10:23 -- You are absolutely right on target. These kids do get "towed" into these relationships. They don't have a say.

VOTE YES ON #1

I repeat:

"I've stated many times that I feel all eduction on such matters belongs in the home, but I do have a question for Yes folks.

What, exactly, is your fear if it were indeed taught that same sex relationships are OK and that same sex marriage is a reality?"

What are these Yes folk afraid of?

Tele.......your a bigot.

The more arguments I read from the Yes on 1 side the clearer it becomes to me that this isn't, and never was, a vote about marriage equality for gays. They have co-opted the issue to use it as a moral soap-box to preach about the morals of homosexuality. They could appear to clear less about the legal rights at stake, which is in fact what this debate is supposed to be about; and instead focus on how gays shouldn't be seen as equals in ANY way.

Another thing that seems evident is that they truly do believe that being gay is a choice. Otherwise I can't understand all this FEAR of indoctrination that is looming on the horizon for them. I was raised by straight parents, surrounded by straight family, and until early adulthood never really questioned that reality. Being gay, while not really talked about in my family, is not exactly a lauded choice. Guess what, despite all that straight indoctrination and teaching, I'm still gay. You don't choose it, it just is.

Gays are here, they will not go back into the closet, and it is hopefully just a matter of time before they can claim full and equal rights. If you wish to continue to teach your children to hate and fear then I can only feel sympathy for them, you are setting them up for failure in life.

coexist- you wrote; "sounds like someone's tempted to become gay! but you probably "decided" not to because you've felt too ostracized by your community and you've felt that to be who you truly are is wrong, doesn't that depress the devil out of you?"

I feel confident that if I told everyone in my life; family and friends- that I am gay- none of them would look at me any different. We have a very diverse family as it is. So, NO- what everyone else thinks has no impact on whether I am straight or not.

HRH419 wrote: "We shouldn't have to pull them from a public school because a certain group of individuals wants to push their choosen lifestyle down our throats."

_________________________________________

About 10 years ago, fundamentalist and evangelical pastors were urging their flock to remove their children from the "godless public schools that were trying to destroy Christianity..." etc. etc. They believed that if there was a mass exodus of Christian kids from the public schools, thus causing a severe decline in enrollment, then the public schools would shut down for lack of "clientele". So, if your pastors are urging, nay BEGGING parents to take their kids out of public school (and homeschool or private religious school them, WHY ARE YOU WHINING ABOUT HAVING TO take your kids out of public school?????

Shadowman, Could you come up with something new,

instead of the repeat misinformation on the signature

collectors. Because we know that all did NOT have your

experience, or was that a friend? It seems there were

two different stories there...

at 8:59 AM, joesalters wrote --GAYS SHOILD NOT BE ALLOWED TO ADOPT, YOU CAN IMAGINE THE PRESSURE AND TAUNTS CHILDREN WOULD FACE IN SCHOOL AND LIFE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

Joe, you are SHOUTING absurdities. We know a gay couple who have two adopted children who went through middle school and high school in our community and were at the head of their class, well respected, and had numerous friends who came to their house and faced no known (to me) PRESSURE AND TAUNTS (as you said).

Vote NO on Question 1

to captainandy and viper, let me repeat:

it IS, however, every child's dream to live in a happy household. if the household is happier and healthier as a same sex household than as a heterosexual household (a "traditional" household) then the kids probably are a lot better off. A loving family is way better than a destructive family, traditional or not.

who wants to be "towed" along in a horrible and unhappy marriage!!?

viper13 wrote: Captainandy 10:23 -- You are absolutely right on target. These kids do get "towed" into these relationships. They don't have a say.

Much like all children can't pick their parents. What exactly is your point? I can assure you I wouldn't want any children of mine raised by the likes of captainandy or some others on this board. Personal choice. Aren't the Yes on 1 folks always arguing about a PARENTS right to choose? Cuts both ways.

Tedlick one of my concerns is that our children will be taught something that is totally contrary to my beliefs. and if they see it normalized they will eventually think its okay. its not okay. it has consequences, and most importantly for christians, its contrary to Gods word. Its important to set high standards in school. children are watching what we do and we lead by example.

JoeDoe: That is a blatant scare tactic and blatant lie. Schools will not require books displaying "gay marriages" Those books can be acquired by any school whether or not gay marriage is legalized. It is irrelevant to gay marriage, and a diversion tactic that's quickly becoming obsolete.

viper13: Homosexuality is not a choice. You cannot get "towed" into a homosexual relationship if you are not sexually attracted to that person. Quit spreading lies to condone your bigotry.

VOTE NO on 1 to preserve equality and American ideals.

JoeDoe (@9:57) Then TEACH them that. I am sure there are other things that schools may mention that you don't agree with. No one is stopping you from teaching your children whatever values you want. If the arguement is simple EXPOSRE to contrary ideas then homeschooling is your best route. Unless you totally isolate your children you are going to have a hard time controlling all of the information that they come in contact with.

JoeDoe: And teaching Christianity is contrary to other peoples belief's as well. Should schools ban teaching religion? So what exactly makes homosexuality wrong. Here, i challenge you to find me one good reason why homosexuality is wrong, and you'll have a valid argument.

Also, you might want to read these links. God created, loves, and condones homosexuality. Stop twisting his words to support your hatred and discrimination:

http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm

http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html

http://www.christchapel.com/romans_inter.html

http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php

http://www.gaychristian101.com/

Proof that homosexuality is not a sin.

HRH419: You have yet to disprove a single one of my arguments. 2 different stories? I suggest you re-read that post very carefully before making up blatant lies. This is why your side will lose in the end, you rely on ignorance and illogical arguments.

9:57 AM, JoeDoe wrote -- one of my concerns is that our children will be taught something that is totally contrary to my beliefs. and if they see it normalized they will eventually think its okay

I recall the late 1960's and hearing people say something similar to the above statement about integration. Integration fears were around "normalizing" such behavor (integration of schools, all being served at a soda counter, etc.) as to "teaching our children" that it would be eventually alright to cross racial lines to marry. OH, MY ! ! ! And lo, and behold....one more giant step towards Equality and a decent nation protecting equity for all citizens.

frankforter: It's a PUBLIC school system. Keep gay relationships

out of it. NO reading books to grade school children that are

NOT appropriate for public school. Personally, my pastor has not

recommended taking children out of public schools. And we

shouldn't have to. And what about the christians who can't

afford that option or don't have the option of homeschooling?

They need to face those hardships because some teacher

wants to read an inappropriate book. I don't think so...

Thanks JoeDoe: I appreciate your honest answer.

Have you talked to your children about this? It's being normalized every day in every form of media that exists, as well as in law (remember, homosexual relationships are not a crime).

Whether or not same sex marriage is granted to the people of Maine, what you fear is already happening.

Shadowman, I remember reading a post of yours stating

that you had the experience that you refer to. And then

in another you posted that a friend told you that they had

the experience. Just wondered which it was...You lead

people to believe that all signature collectors were mis-

leading and that's not the case. So who's lying?

10:06 AM, HRH419 wrote: -- frankforter: It's a PUBLIC school system. Keep gay relationships

out of it.

Would that go for public parking, public toilets, public parks, public libraries, etc. also ?? Lord, HRH419, you are dense.

You know tedlick what I find so disingenuous about you. you were just over on the other site ridiculing God, and here you are trying so hard to sound fairminded???

OK, I still don't get it---the principal of Bangor Christian Schools SAID that they DO teach about homosexuality and same-sex marriage in their schools, but that's OK just as long as the PUBLIC schools DON'T teach about it?!?!?

THIS IS RIDICULOUS! They don't teach marriage of any kind in schools, obviously since the majority of children are born to unwed parents, and curriculum is still controlled by local school boards, so what exactly is this issue? This is as stupid as the argument teaching safe sex and educating about STDs will make a child sexually active. Knowledge is power and teaching our children tolerance to diversity should never be a problem.

HRH419: Lol, you are obviously confusing 2 different posts of mine.

Post #1 - The people who collected signatures in Maine to stop marriage equality did so by misleading people, lying, and using deception. These people who claim to be "right" or "moral" but then use evil, sinful, lying ways. HERE'S WHAT ONE OF MY FRIENDS FROM MAINE TOLD ME:

Sadly "Stand for Marriage Maine" collected many signatures by misleading people to believe they would not be able to vote unless they "registered" with those who were collecting signatures. At the Old Port Festival a woman at the top of Exchange Street was collecting signatures for the vote to ban gay marriage, but she was promoting it as if you were registering to vote. She said "Are you registered votes in Maine would you like to register here?" It was one sentence, she didn’t pause. I asked what we were registering for and she said "To determine if marriage is between a man and a woman or a man and a man or whatever." Then came the best part, she said "Would you like to sign so you can vote?" As if I couldn’t vote if I didn’t sign. She wasn’t telling people that it was a petition to stop gay marriage by putting it to a vote, she was convincing people to sign thinking that they had to or they wouldn’t be allowed to vote. There was nothing that even indicated what or why people where to sign. It’s not about Gay Marriage, it’s about Hate and Control. The fact they collected signatures so quickly only proves they preyed on the elderly and ignorant. This only provides evidence that many Mainers still have much growing up to do.

Do you really want to support people who lied to you, deceived you, who are trying to force you to spread discrimination and bigotry? Don't let these anti-gay people control your lives and choices. Support marriage equality in Maine and vote NO on 1.

-- You see those capital letters?

The other post

Post #2 - THIS WAS TAKEN FROM ANOTHER POSTER that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don't feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren't human.

"I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if "Gays" have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate "(Legal Document)" of our union his mother had him cremated and his ashes taken back to Missouri where we came from. That is only one example how painful it is. His suicide tramatized me so much and her disregard for my feelings only added to my heartach. That happened on March 21 of 2007 and I still cannot type this without crying for the trauma I have to endure each day. Oh did I mention I am in an electric wheelchair for life? Yes I am and it is very diffacult to find another mate when you are 58 and in a wheelchair. "

Did i just catch you in a blatant lie? Thank you for flushing any remaining credibility you have down the toilet.

Good Point Frankforter!

There's 4him lying again... i did not ridicule God: I praised Allah. To a Muslim, that is God. Lying is a sin you know...

I am being fair minded... I asked a genuine question to which I am calmly and respectfully discussing answers with folks. So far, only Joe, but at least he was honest enough to answer. Not like you who are cowardly and run from serious questions.

No run along, 4him, the grownups are talking.

limlib:

How is voting yes on 1 going to protect the children?

tedlick: 4him is an obvious troll in here. Best way to deal with them is to ignore them and never let him incite anger.

For those of you that don't know what a troll is, they basically are posters that take a side on any sensitive topic (religion, sexuality, etc) and post to rile up and anger other posters for their own satisfaction and fun. They usually dance around a central idea while ignoring all evidence (since their primary motive is to incite anger, not prove anything). Other troll behavior includes twisting your words out of context, name-calling, or doing anything that may get a rise out of you.

The best way to own a troll is to get under their skin. When a troll realizes he can't incite anger in people and or get a rise out of them, it irks him. They keep trying, but its fun watching them in desperation as they throw everything at you trying to get any kind of rise. They lose even more, because for each troll, it gives the pro gay marriage side the chance to spread facts and information about homosexuality, to get rid of ignorance. It's a win/win situation for us.

Remember, trolls can't win unless they incite anger. Merely getting responses is not a successful troll, since anyone can do that. What makes trolling unique is the ability to incite anger, and without doing that, they become useless. So to all posters here, do prove them wrong with facts, but do not let them incite anger.

If I'm able to find the post I'll repost it Shadowman.

If I read it wrong then I apologize, but I don't think so.

And there's nothing wrong with my credibilty, you

need to take a peek in the mirror.

And if every poll taker was misleading, why is yours the only

experience stating so?

HRH419: I just proved to you that you were wrong with capital letters =) Re-read my previous post and you will see your mistake.

HRH419: Lol, that has nothing to do with polling, it has to do with the signatures gathered. Again, you show you really don't have much of a clue =)

ah no greencat, that is not a good point!! Bangor Christian school is teaching the truth about it, its a sinful lustful lifestyle, thats not the same it'll be taught in public school.

JoeDoe...

Most Christians believe in Creationism, correct? Schools teach Evolution. That's only one example. Kids learn about homosexuality in school through their friends, peers and classmates. Every school has homosexual students. Our kids also learn about drinking, drugs, sex and many other controversial topics in the same fashion. It is our job as parents to talk to our children about these kinds of things. IF we all do our job correctly then it doesn't matter what other people tell our kids. Personally, I have always told my children that there are homosexual people they will know, meet or see just like they will encounter people of different races, shapes, sizes, religions, socioeconomic status, upbringing, etc. None of my kids are homosexual and they treat people who are just like they treat anyone else. You should always teach your children to be kind and respectful of others, regardless of whether they agree with them or not. Something I have seen in my lifetime is that kids who are different get teased and tormented terribly in school by other children. Why? Because they learn to hate and judge from their parents. Those kids that bully, tease and treat others badly are also the ones that often end up addicted to drugs or alcohol, abuse their spouse and children, behave like idiots and are quite frequently universally loathed by most people who know them.

There already is, occasionally, the subject of homosexuality that comes up in public education. This usually occurs when there is a homosexual student who is being abused, tormented, teased, ridiculed or beaten up. This is done to teach mutual respect and tolerance of differences. Legalizing same sex marriage won't change that in any way, shape or form. Schools are honestly much too busy trying to teach the tests students have to pass in order to get funding. They don't have the time or resources to have any kind of homosexual agenda. The only time the subject comes up is when there is a need for it to come up...when there is a homosexual student. A person can't be taught to be gay...they either are or they aren't. It's not something your child can "catch" in school, either.

Yes, there have been a couple of incidents that I have heard of where an individual teacher has done something that crossed the line. That happens all the time in a variety of areas. It's not the education system as a whole...it's individual teachers. For instance, one of my sons had a teacher who was vegan/vegetarian who tried to ban pudding and yogurt as a snack because SHE didn't approve. When the school caught wind of this they put a stop to it.

Using a few rogue teachers as an excuse to deny rights and protections to same sex couples AND especially their children is NOT okay.

HRH419 said: "It's a PUBLIC school system. Keep gay relationships out of it. NO reading books to grade school children that are NOT appropriate for public school. Personally, my pastor has not recommended taking children out of public schools. And we shouldn't have to. And what about the christians who can't afford that option or don't have the option of homeschooling? They need to face those hardships because some teacher wants to read an inappropriate book. I don't think so...

_________________________________________________________________________

Um, HRH, that was my point---it's a PUBLIC school, not a private Christian school. A PUBLIC school serves all it's students, not a select few. ALL books are appropriate for PUBLIC school because the PUBLIC school serves ALL its students, not a select few. The library should segregate books according to reading level and the librarian should ensure that the books checked out by a student are age appropriate. If you have a problem with non-Christian themed or non-Christian approved books being offered at the school library, then take your kids out of the PUBLIC school and homeschool or private religious school them. I don't buy for one minute that homeschooling or private religious schooling is "not an option" or "not affordable"---there are so many homeschool cirriculum available with all the help and resources a parent needs. Try living within your means so that a parent can stay home and educate their chil(ren). Actually, I know of a single mom from several years ago when I was homeschooling, who worked full time and homeschooled in her off hours. There are so many private religious schools around---so many Christian churches have them---and the tuition is quite reasonable. There are even scholarships available for deserving students through the school/church AND through private foundations---the same ones that offer college scholarships. So, don't go there---if you whine and complain about PUBLIC schools being "godless" etc., etc., and you don't homeschool or private religious school them, then you are just plain LAZY and selfish.

And there you have it folks. You can teach about homosexuality in schools if you're raising your children to be bigots and homophobes, but not if you're simply telling the truth that there are children with same sex parents raising a family.

You're sick 4him. Truly sick. And a whopping hypocrite to boot.

I thought teaching homosexuality was bad... but it's only BAD if you tell the truth about it: that it exists, ain't going away, and some kids have two dads or two moms.

Once again 4him, I thank you for all you do for the "No on 1" side of things, you sick little imp.

BTW: they can't teach "sin" in public schools 4him...

RE: 10:12 Eugene, Do teachers read inappropriate books in

public toilets, parks, librarys, parking garages? If so then YES !

And there's the judgements coming at us again...dense?

Eugene. If you want a picture of dense, look to frankforter

who thinks ALL books are appropriate for public schools !

Dear Lord, help us please! Gotta go to work...

Oh my tedlick, you sound disingenuously SHOCKED! Why its as if its the first time you heard me say that. Your a riot.

also tedlick you misquoted me again.... Its only GOOD if you teach the truth about it. Immoral behavior. Nothing else, now your free to GASP for that special effect.

I don't have to re-read anything shadowman. I know what

I read in the posts. They were quite awhile ago, when this

whole thing first started. And you knew what I meant

(poll vrs signiture takers) don't be so anal. No pun intended.

4him said: "that is not a good point!! Bangor Christian school is teaching the truth about it, its a sinful lustful lifestyle, thats not the same it'll be taught in public school."

___________________________________________________

Oh, OK, NOW I get it... if the PUBLIC schools don't teach fundamental Christianity and it's dogma, canon and beliefs, then they can't teach anything at all.....

Shadow Man- Nice try. The Bible is VERY clear in stating that it is a sin for a man to lie with another man. Period. You can continue to try to justify your position with the young novels you have posted here but it won't change the fact that God teaches us that homosexuality is a sin. I am not a bigot. I am not judging you or anyone else. It is not my place to judge- that is left up to God. You, by calling those with whom you disagree bigots, are being no less judgmental than the folks who do not support gay marriage, if we are to apply your reasoning. As a Christian, I will strive to live my life in a manner which I believe is pleasing to God. You, too, certainly have the right to live your life based on your beliefs. I think any involvement by the government in this issue should be founded in civil unions, not marriage. I wish, just once, an issue could be debated on here without the incendiary rhetoric and trash talk!

Do non-secular schools offer financial aid for those who can't afford them? Do congregations ask for collections to help fellow congregants send their children to non-secular schools? I was thinking that the money raised by 'special' collections that are being used to repeal this law would have paid for non-secular education for a lot of kids.

If the major concern about this "Civil Marriage" law is the "fear" marriage or certain books will enter the public school curriculum/Maine Learning Standards then put your focus there. There is nothing in the law regarding "teaching" anything. There is nothing about education in the law. The Maine Learning Standards are not up for review until 2015 - that is 5 years to initiate legislation or make those concerns known to the Department of Education. If this isn't your major concern for repealing it then be truthful about it.

My Dad died when I was little. My Mom raised three children to adulthood on her own. She made sacrifices to make sure we had what we needed. We didn't get name-brand clothing, we didn't have cable or a microwave (they were expensive then), we didn't have video games or go out to eat weekly or monthly, she turned the furnace down at night, we turned out the lights we didn't need, we ate a lot of soup :). As a parent you make sacrifices to do what is best for your family.

Sincerely

Jack

nurse54,

The bible is irrelevant in this except as a basis for how you vote.

Civil law is not based upon any religious dogma. Just look at all the "sins" and "abominations" from the bible that are totally legal.

That argument is dead.

Vote how you want, our state and nation will continue to base decisions on our constitution and concepts of victimization and harm rather than your religious dogma.

Besides: the STATE must grant authority for religious figures to perform MARRIAGES. It is, therefore, a CIVIL ceremony. That too is a false and dead argument.

HRH, Why don't you stop LYING by omission? You know very well I said AGE-APPROPRIATE. Do you write commercials for "yes on 1"?

I see the boys in disagreement like to use the thumbs down option..

nurse54: Lol, let us examine that LEviticus line you pulled out of context

Leviticus 18:22:

"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13:

"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

Both of these verses refer to heterosexuals who participated in fertility rituals in order to guarantee good crops and healthy flocks, not homosexuals, there is absolutely no mention of sexual orientation or homosexuality. Also, the word abomination was used for anything that was considered to be religiously unclean or dealing with any type idol worship.

The Hebrew word "toevah" was used in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. "Toevah" has been translated in our Bibles as "abomination" or "detestable". The "toevah" was used throughout the Old Testament for activity involving ethnic contamination and religious idolatry. "Toevah" refers to things that were ritually unclean - like eating pork.

It is significant that another Hebrew word, "zimah," also translated "abomination," which means intrinsic evil or evil by its very nature, was not used in Leviticus 18:22, or Leviticus 20:13.

Also notice there is no mention of female homosexual relationships in the old testament. It's because they aren't talking about sexuality, they are talking about idolatry.

Stop twisting God's words to condone your bigotry. Many Christians agree that homosexuality is not a sin. God created homosexuals, God loves them. It is you that hate them and try to twist God's words to suit your hate agenda.

frank, really. you calling someone else a liar! I know 4 people fluent in Hebrew and greek. the posts your famous for throwing out there are a joke. PLEASE!

nurse54 said: "I think any involvement by the government in this issue should be founded in civil unions, not marriage."

______________________________________________

nurse54, what is the difference between civil unions and marriage?

The ironic thing is that IF the yes on 1 vote wins and the same sex marriage law is repealed it WILL lead to more teachers making an effort to teach children to be accepting of homosexuality. They will realize that Maine does not accept diversity and will go all out to try to change that through the next generation.

nurse54: Also, since you quoted Leviticus, let me ask you these questions. Please answer very honestly

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

Okay shadow man, time for you to go home. READY?

God's Plan for the Gay Agenda

Genesis 19:1-28, Leviticus 18:22; 20:13, Ezekiel 16:46-50, Romans 1:18-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Code: A170

From Pastor John MacArthur

If you've been watching the headlines over the last couple years, you may have noticed the incredible surge of interest in affirming homosexuality. Whether it's at the heart of a religious scandal, political corruption, radical legislation, or the redefinition of marriage, homosexual interests have come to characterize America. That's an indication of the success of the gay agenda. And some Christians,including somenational church leaders, have wavered on the issue even recently. But sadly, when people refuse to acknowledge the sinfulness of homosexuality--calling evil good and good evil (Isaiah 5:20)--they do so at the expense of many souls.

@11:09 AM, ShadowMan

Yeah!!! YOU SAID IT!!!

didn't you faithful church-goers learn that song... all God's critters got a place in the choir.... I mean really! What is the main message of that? God made them, God loves them.

go sing to cheer yourselves up. and try to love everyone as God does.

4him said: "frank, really. you calling someone else a liar! I know 4 people fluent in Hebrew and greek. the posts your famous for throwing out there are a joke. PLEASE!"

____________________________________________________

first of all, it's "frankforter", not "frank"---I am not a man, don't address me as a man...I don't address you improperly.

second---what on earth are you talking about??? What "posts" are you referring to that "are a joke"???

don't go yet.

How should you respond to the success of the gay agenda? Should you accept the recent trend toward tolerance? Or should you side with those who exclude homosexuals with hostility and disdain?

In reality, the Bible calls for a balance between what some people think are two opposing reactions--condemnation and compassion. Really, the two together are essential elements of biblical love, and that's something the homosexual sinner desperately needs.

Homosexual advocates have been remarkably effective in selling their warped interpretations of passages in Scripture that address homosexuality. When you ask a homosexual what the Bible says about homosexuality--and many of them know--they have digested an interpretation that is not only warped, but also completely irrational. Pro-homosexual arguments from the Bible are nothing but smokescreens--as you come close, you see right through them.

forHIMtoday:

Lol, same old lines, all which had nothing to do with homosexuality.

I proved Leviticus dealt with idolatry, so let's examine the other ones.

The Sodom Story - Genesis 19:1-29

Homophobic Viewpoint: "Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality."

Scriptural Viewpoint: Sodom was a lush beautiful region of land whose inhabitants had known the goodness of God. Despite their exposure to, experience with, and witness of the one true loving Creator, the people of Sodom had rejected a relationship with God, and turned to numerous types of idolatry. When God's messengers were sent to the city, the men of Sodom responded by threatening the ultimate act of violent abuse, murder, disrespect and humiliation. They were going to RAPE God's representatives.

All other Old and New Testament references to Sodom involved the sins of idolatry, inhospitality, indifference toward the poor and the rejection of God's messengers. There are NO REFERENCES to same sex acts or HOMOSEXUALITY.

*********************************************************

Letters from the Apostle Paul Romans 1:26-27

*********************************************************

If taken out of context, this passage seems to condemn homosexuals. However, when Romans 1:26-27 is considered within the context of Romans 1:16 through Romans 2:16, the Scriptures clearly present a different teaching.

Paul was writing to the church in Rome. The Roman church had become troubled by divisions related to spiritual pride. Paul was addressing the Christians in Rome and teaching about the pagans in Rome. After declaring the power of Christ's gospel to save all, he pointed out that the religious people of Rome had refused to even acknowledge GOD as one of their many gods. They had turned their backs on the one true living God and worshiped handmade idols. Paul explained that as a result of their idolatry, every part of their lives had become corrupt and vile.

Paul then told the Roman Christians that they were not to judge others. To judge others is to condemn yourself (Romans 2:1). Christians are to love others out of their brokenness and into the healing wholeness that is found in Jesus Christ.

The Greek word Paul used, that has been translated in our Bibles as "natural/unnatural", relates to that which is against one's own inherent nature (i.e., heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts). It was also related to Paul's concept of what was culturally acceptable. The same Greek word is used in I Cor. 11:14-15 in reference to correct hair length for men and women and in Gal. 2:15 in reference to Jews and Gentiles who were such by "nature." Paul emphasized that IDOLATRY (not homosexuality) was the evil which resulted in temple prostitution, sadomasochism, and lack of regard for others.

I Corinthians 6:9-11

Let us examine that very closely.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

First of all, before we address this line, let us consider one thing. Supposedly taken from a 2000+ year old book, understand that the word "homosexual" was not coined until 1869 by Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. So how it happens to be included in a true reading of the particular biblical passage should make you ponder how accurate the interpretation actually is. So man changing the words of the Bible to conveniently spread hate? I think so.

Now onto the interpretation, i've included the original Greek words as well where it's relevant.

Paul was attempting to educate the new Christians in Corinth as to what Godly living was all about. In verses 9-10, he listed ways of living that were not compatible with a Christ-centered life. In verse 11, Paul reminded them that they had been saved out of those destructive ways. There are two Greek words in I Corinthians 6:9, which sometimes are translated with a homosexual connotation.

First word, "malakoi" or "malakos" - it literally means soft or mushy; it can mean spineless, wishy-washy or without backbone. "Malakoi" was used four other times in the New Testament and it always meant "soft." The context of I Corinthians seems to imply a moral softness or decadence, a failure to stand up for what is right and godly. It is significant that for several hundred years there was no sexual connotation assigned to this word.

Second word, "arsenokoitai" or "arsenokoites" - it literally means, "males having sex." Early commentaries on I Corinthians related "arsenokoitai" to male temple prostitutes and to men having sex with boys. (Idolatrous prostitution and pedophilia are always wrong for those seeking to honor God.)

Homosexual relationships were known in the Greco-Roman culture of Paul's day. The Greek word commonly used in reference to adult male same sex partners was "arrenokoites." Paul did not use this word. Instead, he created his own, "arsenokoitai." If Paul had intended to condemn all adult male same sex partners, he would have used the common word for it.

Got any other biblical verses i can disprove?

=)

od's condemnation of homosexuality is abundantly clear--He opposes it in every age.

- In the patriarchs (Genesis 19:1-28)

- In the Law of Moses (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13)

- In the Prophets (Ezekiel 16:46-50)

- In the New Testament (Romans 1:18-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Jude 7-8)

Why does God condemn homosexuality? Because it overturns God's fundamental design for human relationships--a design that pictures the complementary relationship between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:18-25; Matthew 19:4-6; Ephesians 5:22-33).

Why, then, have homosexual interpretations of Scripture been so successful at persuading so many? Simple: people want to be convinced. Since the Bible is so clear about the issue, sinners have had to defy reason and embrace error to quiet their accusing consciences (Romans 2:14-16). As Jesus said, "Men loved the darkness rather than the Light, [because] their deeds were evil" (John 3:19-20).

forHIMtoday: LOL, did you copy and paste that argument from this site?

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Grace_to_You/Article.asp?article_id=815

"How should you respond to the success of the gay agenda? Should you accept the recent trend toward tolerance? Or should you side with those who exclude homosexuals with hostility and disdain?

In reality, the Bible calls for a balance between what some people think are two opposing reactions--condemnation and compassion. Really, the two together are essential elements of biblical love, and that's something the homosexual sinner desperately needs.

Homosexual advocates have been remarkably effective in selling their warped interpretations of passages in Scripture that address homosexuality. When you ask a homosexual what the Bible says about homosexuality--and many of them know--they have digested an interpretation that is not only warped, but also completely irrational. Pro-homosexual arguments from the Bible are nothing but smokescreens--as you come close, you see right through them. "

Your credibility just went down the toilet the minute you plagarized that site. You expect any of us to take you seriously still?

11:10 AM, Centaurmyst,

Ironic, isn't it? The very folks who wish us to fade into the past will have to put up with so much more if they win.

I find that very very funny.

Any agenda by gay folk could never be as evil, twisted, and vile as the agenda of the 4hims of the world. Maybe that's why they've lost all clout and political power in this country.

I find that very reassuring.

Spew religious dogma all you want... it has no bearing on the end result of this, and 4him knows it. Even he has said that, yes, this is coming. It cannot be stopped.

I find that very uplifting.

On 10/8/09 at 9:57 AM, JoeDoe wrote: "Tedlick one of my concerns is that our children will be taught something that is totally contrary to my beliefs. and if they see it normalized they will eventually think its okay. its not okay. it has consequences, and most importantly for christians, its contrary to Gods word. Its important to set high standards in school. children are watching what we do and we lead by example."

JoeDoe, your children are already being taught things that are totally contrary to your beliefs. For instance, they're taught that tyranny is wrong, and they're taught that in the United States, religion and religious dogma are not the rule of law. They're taught that our Constitution provides freedom of (and from) religion.

You, on the other hand, appear to have no reservations in imposing your particular brand of religion on the rest of the populous.

Another issue most people don't consider....

If same sex couples aren't allowed to get married and they have children they don't have to get divorced which means no child support or requirement to provide health insurance for those kids or help support them. That means more children getting assistance from the state because one of the parents can't be held financially responsible because they aren't legally recognized as being financially responsible for that child. There is usually only on parent in a same sex relationship who is legally responsible for the children...even if that child has been raised it's whole life by BOTH parents. You can bet there are A LOT of cases such as this in Maine. I wonder how many of those kids get Mainecare, TANF and Foodstamps because one of the parents can't be held legally or financially responsible for their children just because this state refuses to acknowledge same sex couples and their kids as families? It would probably save A LOT of tax dollars if Maine does get same sex marriage. Then the law could go after homosexual deadbeat parents. Apparently all these very important issues and the protections of those kids don't matter to some people and they would rather fund homosexual irresponsible deadbeat parents via deductions from their paychecks every week instead.

Vote NO on 1...reduce the number of children in Maine who need state assistance due to deadbeats who can't be held financially responsible just because they are homosexual. Same sex marriage is just as much about RESPONSIBILITIES as it is about rights.

So, what is God's response to the homosexual agenda?

Certain and final judgment. To claim anything else is to compromise the truth of God and deceive those who are perishing.

As you interact with homosexuals and their sympathizers, you must affirm the Bible's condemnation. You are not trying to bring damnation on the head of homosexuals, you are trying to bring conviction so that they can turn from that sin and embrace the only hope of salvation for all of us sinners--and that's through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Homosexuals need salvation. They don't need healing--homosexuality is not a disease. They don't need therapy--homosexuality is not a psychological condition. Homosexuals need forgiveness, because homosexuality is a sin.

I don't know how it happened, but a few decades ago someone branded homosexuals with the worst misnomer--"gay." Gay used to mean happy, but I can assure you, homosexuals are not happy people. They habitually seek happiness by following after destructive pleasures. There is a reason Romans 1:26 calls homosexual desire a "degrading passion." It is a lust that destroys the physical body, ruins relationships, and brings perpetual suffering to the soul--and its ultimate end is death (Romans 7:5). Homosexuals are experiencing the judgment of God (Romans 1:24, 26, 28), and thus they are very, very sad.

irst Corinthians 6 is very clear about the eternal consequence for those who practice homosexuality--but there's good news. No matter what the sin is, whether homosexuality or anything else, God has provided forgiveness, salvation, and the hope of eternal life to those who repent and embrace the gospel. Right after identifying homosexuals as those who "will not inherit the kingdom of God," Paul said, "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" (1 Corinthians 6:11).

God's plan for many homosexuals is that they come to salvation. There were former homosexuals in the Corinthian church back in Paul's day, just as there are many former homosexuals today in my church and in faithful churches around the country. With regenerated hearts, they sit in biblical churches throughout the country praising their Savior, along with former fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, coveters, drunkards, revilers, and swindlers. Remember, such were some of you too.

What should be your response to the homosexual agenda? Make it a biblical response--confront it with the truth of Scripture that condemns homosexuality and promises eternal damnation for all who practice it. What should be your response to the homosexual? Make it a gospel response--confront him with the truth of Scripture that condemns him as a sinner, and point him to the hope of salvation through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. Stay faithful to the Lord as you respond to homosexuality by honoring His Word, and leave the results to Him.

forhimtoday: That last post was plagarized from http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/GTYW04.htm

Come on, if you're going to troll, don't make it this easy :)

Adam & Eve

stained glass window.

That statement sums up the belief system of many Christians. They view Genesis 2:24 as God’s final answer on who can get married.

The Adam & Eve marriage model, ‘one man with one woman’ is the only marriage model God will bless, according to some Christians.

Their logic works like this. Since God only mentioned a heterosexual couple in Genesis 2, anti-gay Christians assume God intended to condemn homosexual couples because He did not mention them.

How would you answer

these important questions?

1. In the Adam and Eve story, did God or Moses give an explicit command that gay and lesbian partnerships are wrong?

2. In telling us about Adam & Eve, did God or Moses intend to prohibit all lesbian and gay relationships?

If we are to let the Bible define what "traditional marriage" should look like, then our marriage laws should be amended as such:

A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women.(Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)

B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines in addition to his wife or wives.(II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)

C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed.(Deut 22:13-21)

D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden.(Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)

E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce.(Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)

F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law.(Gen 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)

G. In lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your town, it is required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with him (even if he had previously offered you up as a sex toy to men young and old), tag-teaming with any sisters you may have. Of course, this rule applies only if you are female.(Gen 19:31-36)

Violence against a minority group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people

Gays are being beaten, shot at, sent to the hospital, killed. In the Middle East, they are killing

gays among other groups out of hatred. Is this what we want America to become? Do we want

America to revert back to the 1960's when groups were killed and segregated against for simply

no good reason? Do we want to follow the ways of the Middle East and Al Queda? Let's push

forward, it's time to end bigotry, discrimination, hate, and ignorance. This is modern America, not

the Dark Ages.

Homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. Any educated Christian would know that. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality.

http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm

http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html

http://www.christchapel.com/romans_inter.html

http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php

http://www.gaychristian101.com/

Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. Jesus, however, clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will.

This is very similar to the religious bigots of the past, where they took Bible passages to condone slavery, keep women down, and used Bible passages to claim blacks as curses who should be enslaved by the white man. People used God to claim that blacks marrying whites was unnatural, and not of God's will.

For those of you claiming homosexuality is a "lifestyle", that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don't choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html

Gay, Straight Men's Brain Responses Differ

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html

http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html

http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. "Nurture" may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.

And it should also be noted that:

"It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organisations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association."

But we don't need scientific evidence for this.

I shall ask you this. Are you male? (If not, reverse the questions to the other gender) If so, Are you sexually attracted to other men? Would you be able to enjoy sex with a man? Do you get sexual urges with a man? Do men turn you on sexually and emotionally? Could you be happy with a man sexually for the rest of your life? Does male/male porn or male sexual situations turn you on and arouse you?

If you are heterosexual, the answer should be no. Otherwise, you might either be bi-sexual or homosexual, and might want to re-evaluate your sexuality. It is well known that a lot of homophobes deny their homosexuality by being aggressive towards it, until they finally accept it. Most people know this is not a choice, and it would be ignorant claiming it so. I know a few gay people who went to a straight club when they were figuring out their sexuality, where women were putting their naked bodies all over them, giving them naked lap dances, not once did the gay men get it up or aroused. But just the picture of a naked guy gets them up easily. Tell me thats choice. Also, why would a gay person, knowing that you will have a rough time in society, knowing that you cant get married unless you live in certain places, knowing that people will pick on you for it, knowing that your closest friends and families might completely turn their back on you, choose to be gay, if they could easily be satisfied by the opposite sex? Because they can't. Simple logic there.

Here is why the slippery slope argument fails.

Let us take the 4 common arguments: beastiality, pedophilia, incest, and polygamy. First off, all 4 of these are fetishes, and irrelevant to homosexuality, which is a sexual orientation. Let me distinguish this for you using incest as an example. If a guy into incest is straight, he'll choose his sister, and if he's gay, he'll choose his brother. See the distinguishment? Now pedophilia and beastiality will never be legal, because both are non-consenting and harmful, whereas homosexuality is 2 loving consenting adults that is not wrong or harmful. Incest, also has been shown to lead to genetic defects, so that is also out of the question. Incest also is a fetish, not a sexual orientation. I have never seen a person exclusively attracted to their brothers/sisters etc. Which leaves polygamy. Now i'll prove why homosexuality also won't lead to polygamy.

Who the two people getting married are, is a completely different question in law than how many people can marry. The states have all agreed to prohibit polygamous marriage. They have given numerous public policy reasons and the prohibition stands.

Equal protect applies so long as a rational public policy reason exists to prohibit certain marriages.What is the rational public policy reason for prohibiting a gay couple from marrying? Six states and seven jurisdictions have said there isn't one.

No court or legislature has made a finding that letting two people of the same-sex marry will somehow permit more than two people of any gender to marry. Allowing prisoners to marry and allowing inter-racial couples to marry didn't make polygamy acceptable and it didn't make all married couples criminals or bi-racial. You have no point, you are relying on assumptions and "what ifs" that have been proven to be myths and false. There is no evidence showing gay marriage having a higher chance of leading to polygamy than heterosexual marriage.

All 50 states and the federal government have said there is a public policy reason to prohibit polygamous marriages. With 5 years of gay marriage in Massachusetts, no one has asked to marry more than one other person in Massachusetts, let alone say the 14th amendment of the US Constitution gives them that right.

The slippery slope is a myth meant as a scare tactic that's quickly becoming obsolete

http://www.examiner.com/x-11620-Atlanta-Lesbian-Relationship-Examiner~y2009m6d18-75-of-teens-support-gay-marriage-in-online-poll

75% of teens support gay marriage.

Sorry, majority of the polls show a rise in support for gay marriage. Of course there will be a few that don't follow the trend, but that's expected. The real poll that matters is when the old people die out, the younger generation supports gay marriage. 60%+ of people aged 18-30 typically support gay marriage, in some areas as high as 80%. As you go into the teens 13-17, seems 75% support it. And the generation that comes after them, the number will be even higher.

The people who collected signatures in Maine to stop marriage equality did so by misleading people, lying, and using deception. These people who claim to be "right" or "moral" but then use evil, sinful, lying ways. Here's what one of my friends from Maine told me.

"Sadly "Stand for Marriage Maine" collected many signatures by misleading people to believe they would not be able to vote unless they "registered" with those who were collecting signatures. At the Old Port Festival a woman at the top of Exchange Street was collecting signatures for the vote to ban gay marriage, but she was promoting it as if you were registering to vote. She said "Are you registered votes in Maine would you like to register here?" It was one sentence, she didn’t pause. I asked what we were registering for and she said "To determine if marriage is between a man and a woman or a man and a man or whatever." Then came the best part, she said "Would you like to sign so you can vote?" As if I couldn’t vote if I didn’t sign. She wasn’t telling people that it was a petition to stop gay marriage by putting it to a vote, she was convincing people to sign thinking that they had to or they wouldn’t be allowed to vote. There was nothing that even indicated what or why people where to sign. It’s not about Gay Marriage, it’s about Hate and Control. The fact they collected signatures so quickly only proves they preyed on the elderly and ignorant. This only provides evidence that many Mainers still have much growing up to do."

Do you really want to support people who lied to you, deceived you, who are trying to force you to spread discrimination and bigotry? Don't let these anti-gay people control your lives and choices. Support marriage equality in Maine and vote NO on 1.

Why voting NO on 1 doesn't affect children.

Some parents were afraid their children would be taught about gay marriage in our schools. Somehow this would undermine what they teach their children at home and through their respective “churches.” Yet we teach our children that polygamy exists in the world, that other religions exist, even the existence of atheism. Teaching that gay marriage exists is no more an endorsement than teaching about other religions or cultures. How much difference would there be teaching that domestic partnerships/civil unions exist between committed loving couples of the same gender? If people are so insecure in their personal faiths that they feel threatened by the teaching of the existence of other faiths and cultures, then perhaps we should ban from our history and civics courses all references to the diversity of religions and cultures in our world. That would certainly prepare our children for living in a pluralistic society and world.

Also, why is it wrong? You cannot just ignore a fact of life, that homosexuality is a natural part of life and pretend it doesn't exist. We should be teaching and informing kids of tolerance, and that sexuality is just another part of human life that's not wrong. We should be teaching kids against discrimination and bigotry. We are not teaching them explicit details of gay sex, but the mere fact that gay marriage and homosexuals exist, and are a natural part of society and do harm to no others and aren't wrong.

Even in places where gay marriage is not legalized, children will learn of gay marriage, through television, internet, friends, etc. If you want to keep them in the dark, you better keep them locked in the closet from the outside world.

This was taken from another poster that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don't feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren't human.

I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if "Gays" have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate "(Legal Document)" of our union his mother had him cremated and his ashes taken back to Missouri where we came from. That is only one example how painful it is. His suicide tramatized me so much and her disregard for my feelings only added to my heartach. That happened on March 21 of 2007 and I still cannot type this without crying for the trauma I have to endure each day. Oh did I mention I am in an electric wheelchair for life? Yes I am and it is very diffacult to find another mate when you are 58 and in a wheelchair.

what is the homosexual agenda, exactly? really, what does that phrase mean? or do you just spout it out because that's what the media tells you is happening?

here's another way to look at it. God made the earth, God loves the earth, people populate the earth, people populating the earth is becomming a huge problem eventually to lead to earth's destruction, and God's creation will inevitably be destroyed, because of you. So, here's possibly what God has come up with for a solution (of course I am assuming, for your sake, that God exists and is thoughtful and intelligent): If same sex couples start getting married and together, the chances of them having children, adding to the overpopulation problem, is slimmer than the chances of "traditional" marriages having children. They might even adopt poor little kiddies who don't have a home or a family who loves them. So, homosexuality is God's answer to armageddon, to the destruction of the earth he created so lovingly. HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!

tedlick...how this vote ends up won't have a personal impact on me because I'm a heterosexual female. I have friends who are homosexual, though, and I lived through a similar fight in Vermont when I lived there at the time Civil Unions were made into law. It's not as ugly here as it was there, thankfully, but I learned a great deal from that. I used to be very much against same sex marriage...not because I ever had a problem with homosexuals, but because I had the same kind of worries people here are having. There are a lot of people who really ARE afraid there will be a negative impact on their kids so they feel really uneasy. It's going to take them seeing that it won't impact them for them to actually finally believe it. I'm being vocal because I actually have seen for myself that it doesn't change anything at all for the worse...and actually changes things for the better. I'll be voting NO on 1 because I KNOW that's what is best for Maine AND that it's the right thing to do. I hope I have managed to at least make a few people think more and at least be open to also voting NO on 1.

It seems to me that the issue is about people feeling justified that their side of the story is right; basically if I don't agree with you I must be wrong. The reality is that all of these issues need to be decided on based upon what's good for most people.The problem with that is the other percentage don't get what they want. This is what living in a democratic society is about.

The reality is that gay marriage has zero impact on the majority of the population of our country. I am not a fan of the public school curriculum and can probably find 100 other ways in which it is deficient in teaching our children. Children are exposed to a lot more worse things than a couple of gay married people living their lives. People used to be opposed to blacks going to school with whites; but now, that is expected as the norm. You want to go backwards in history?: Blacks are not people; women are property; children are commodities;only white europeans count? In order for a spirit of tolerance and acceptance to thrive, we need to be tolerant and accepting. In general, gay marriage protects families and children. Why do only the children of heterosexual marriages count? The others do to. This is a country of individualism; not do as a I say or else. Let the gays marry if they want. Let the non-gays marry if they want. Go live your life; teach your children to think and reason and all will be well.

Thank you Centaurmyst.

How this vote ends up will only affect me in the sense that my life doesn't change. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not suddenly turning heterosexual. My life will go on as it has with no change. My partner and I already paid the extortion necessary to protect ourselves in most senses (there's still a lot of protections and guarantees we don't get, but we've done what we can).

The battle will continue if the Yes Klan wins. That's what I was commenting on earlier: there will be so much MORE gay this and gay that on television, in print, on the streets, and (yes) in schools than if they'd just let marriage equality fall where our government wanted it to. And they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

Part of me thinks they WANT to continue to see all this discussion on homosexuals and are trying to perpetuate it as long as they can. Otherwise, they'd just let it end.

Thanks for the kind words.

ALREADY VOTED NO ON 1! All rational folks will surely do the same.

Writing earlier this week in the BDN, Dr. Eric Steele, a husband, father, writer, educator and physician who has relived pain and saved lives throughout the BDN readership area, wrote: "if you peel off the clothing, what lies underneath most opposition to civil marriage rights for gays is just naked fear, ignorance and prejudice." In surveying the above comments, I feel he just about hit the nail on the head.

I do find it hilarious that no one ever answers the great Leviticus questions. I smile every time I see them pointed out. Yet none of the folks who keep quoting the Bible will ever answer those questions. IF were are to believe that being gay is a sin against God because it says so in Leviticus, then we must also believe everything else Leviticus tells us as fact, as well. This is the crux of the argument about picking the parts of the Bible you like and ignoring the rest. This is why many of us push back against arguments that maintain being gay (or any other issue) is "against Gods will" because it says so in the Bible.

You can't have it both ways. Either the Bible is the absolute answer for everything, or it isn't. Leviticus is either right, or he isn't. As he ceased to exist a very long time agp, we can't ask him for clarification. We can't ask him if he really means that being gay is bad, but that slavery talk, well that was simply part of the times... Let us sanction Leviticus, and see how things go. There will be many worse things to worry about than a particular book being available in the school library.

Another note to the undecided voters...do your own research. There's a lot of good info on these posts, but many lies and deceptions as well. If the "yes" crowd has put fear into you regarding gay marriage, look at the states and countries that do allow marriage equality. Has it worked? How has society in general been affected? How has the education system been adjusted regarding this issue?

Don't be misled. Read. Learn.

When you see the truth about all of this, you'll hopefully realize that a "no" vote is the right thing to do.

ricts1.. pssst, Leviticus wasn't a person LOL, it got that name from the septaugint, greek translation of the old testament.

FYI

Answers from the American Psychological Association on sexual orientation.

http://www.apa.org/topics/sorientation.html

Down with Cafeteria Christianity! You can't be so vehemently for one piece of the Bible without being vehemently for the rest of what God, Jesus, and the Bible says. So Yes Klan, go back and do some reading. A little self evaluation is in order. Are you really going to be so hypocritical? How is God going to judge you?! My goodness.

Centaurmyst, As I tell everyone. I teach my kids, that people need to be tolerated, and loved. I also teach them what is right and what is wrong because i love them and they deserve the truth. I don't live in a box because i'm Christian. I have two college degrees and I've seen it all. I have a right as state of Maine taxpayer to vote against something that is contrary to what I believe. No one is ever going to convince me that Gods word is wrong. Tolerance means tolerating people. It doesn't mean embracing what they believe in.

and to touch on seacoasts point, do a study on your bible from a reliable Christian source. Rather than believe all the lies and distortions that are thrown out there, do an honest study. There's a reason why the bible is still the all time best seller, a book that has literally been scrutinized for hundreds of years and has never failed.

coexist, the only one feeding at the cafeteria is you. Your just following the herd. Same old silly bible put downs with absolutely no biblical understanding.

Shadowman, explain to me please why there are men and women that have practiced homosexuality and then turned away from it, and admitted it was wrong. sounds like they made a choice to me. Some of us gays that have biological children from past relationships. sounds like they made a choice too. All people have pre-dispositions to different types of sins i.e. alcoholism, gambling, stealing. but not all people act on them. that is the difference. You've convinced yourself of a lie. kind of sad really.

I thank you for the clarification on Leviticus, forHIM. I'll refrain from referring to "him" in the future.

So, how about it? Will you explain the rest of Leviticus to me? I trust you to be a reliable Christian resource.

becwith: Appreciated your comments at 11:56 AM.....As you said, in this country a majority does not have some automatic right to deny rights and fairness to a minority. Most understand this.

ShadowMan: Good definition of a blogger troll at 10:26 AM

On 12:28pm I meant "some of us KNOW gays"

JoeDoe wrote "Shadowman, explain to me please why there are men and women that have practiced homosexuality and then turned away from it, and admitted it was wrong."

Not Shadowman, but maybe because their faith taught that it was wrong and they made a decision to reject their natural inclination. Their choice. Just because a subset of gay people find it "wrong" because of their religious teachings doesn't make the act itself wrong. It makes it wrong for THEM.

You could easily CHOOSE not to have sex with women, for any number of reasons. Does that make hetrosexuality wrong? No, it just means you made a personal choice to abstain, the hows and whys are personal and quite frankly none of anyone else's business.

TolBig80 12:33pm - You do understand that same sex couples can't procreate children biologically right? Your ideal society would last only one generation and you think that its right?! man you are deceived.

JoeDoe, if we are to believe the statistics that there are approximately 2.5% to 3% of the population being gay, exactly how would that eliminate future generations? And that wouldn't even begin to address the ability to artificially inseminate for preganacy, which is way beyond the scope of the argument. If our population were to decrease 3% each year it probably wouldn't even reduce our population, merely slow it's growth. Gay folks being able to get married isn't gonna cause any reproductive problems in our society...

God can heal homosexuality if you believe. I was healed of alcoholism, generations of it in my family. Repent and call on the name of Jesus. thats the only thing that is ever going to save any of us..................thats the truth. take it or leave it.

forHIM et al, it's true, there has been a movement for over 30 years to make gay people more visible in our society, and yes to affirm them as taxpaying citizens and valid human beings. Also to dispel misperceptions and preconceived ideas based on stereotypes and fears. You seem to think it’s only gay activists who promote this but is also professional organizations, such and the American medical Association, and the APA whose link I posted previously.

From the American Medical Association:

Commentary by Jack Drescher, MD, and Andrew Ferguson, MB, MRCGP

Attitudes toward Homosexuality

Today’s moral and legal debates about homosexuality are embedded in the “culture wars” whose opposing sides argue either that

(1) homosexuality is normal and acceptable or that

(2) homosexuality is neither normal nor acceptable.

The first position I call a normal/identity model . It regards homosexuality as a normal variation of human expression, analogous with left-handedness, and views a homosexual orientation as a distinguishing feature of a gay or lesbian identity. Acceptance of this position is an outgrowth of the 1973 American Psychiatric Association (APA) decision to remove homosexuality from its diagnostic manual (DSM) [2]. Following the APA decision, shifting cultural perspectives had medical support: if homosexuality is not an illness, and if one does not literally accept biblical prohibitions against homosexuality, and if gay people are able and prepared to function as productive citizens, then what is wrong with being gay? The normal/identity view is accepted by the American Medical Association, national, state, and local governments that provide civil rights protections for gay people, and religious denominations that sanctify same-sex relationships.

Some segments of society strongly oppose homosexuality’s removal from the DSM. They advocate an illness/behavior model that regards any open expressions of homosexuality as either

(1) behavioral symptoms pathognomonic of psychiatric illness;

(2) a moral failing; or

(3) some combination of the 2.

This position, that illness or immorality cannot provide a foundation for creating a normal identity, is held by “conversion” therapists and religious and political groups opposed to the normalization of homosexuality. While the mental health mainstream has depathologized homosexuality, sexual conversion therapists criticize the mental health and medical fields and believe individuals can modify their behavior to reflect a more acceptable heterosexual norm. Their arguments often dismiss scientific facts that disagree with religious dogma, focus on gaps in scientific knowledge to discredit the entire scientific enterprise, and confuse the general public about the current state of accepted scientific knowledge. Furthermore, the religious and social conservatives who market conversion therapies as a viable alternative to being gay seem to be unaware of, uninterested in, or dismissive of warnings of the possible harms such “therapy” can do.

mangled that last sentence, didn't I? (Must proofread before posting!)

If new births were to be reduced by 3% in any given year I doubt it would reduce our current population at all, merely slowing it's growth.

I think that's a bit more clearly written. I hope! :)

As my hero Kinky Friedlan (TX) says 'let gay people get married. why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us'

jazz11 I'm not married and not gay, yet I've been in a relationship with one person for many years, we own a house, pay higher taxes. We get treated like we have an agenda to murder each other trying to get life insurance in case one of us dies and then the other is out on the street because they can't afford to make house payments. We don't get to write off mortage interest. We don't need to pay the government to get a piece of paper that says hey we like each other and then pay the government and lawyers to say hey we don't like each other anymore. If we don't allow the government to put their boot down on our necks we are punished by paying higher taxes. Thats not any different then gays except we can't get medical insurance on the others policy, Gays can.

Until straight couples get fair treatment everyone else can stand in line, the way I see it.

Schools should not be teaching sex or marriage but they do because in the past parents have been too lazy and don't want to be responsible for their children education in real life

.

centaurmyst what governmental rights are you talking about? Because clearly one of those people in a gay marriage is not the real parent and therefore can claim as a single parent home and get food stamps and fuel assistance and other tax breaks that people who don't have kids can't get. I seriously want to know what rights you are talking about.

forhim....I didn't encourage people to get their info from a gay-friendly source, but to simply do their own research and see how gay marriage has affected lives in areas where it's legal. You're suggesting getting knowledge from a very biased place, aren't you? We all have been reminded of what the bible has to say concerning homosexuality. Or at least, how many interpret it.

If what the "vote yes" crowd is saying is correct, then people will learn that in their research. However, in my opinion, the truth will favor equality and "vote no" will win the day.

12:45 PM, JoeDoe, homosexuality doesn't need healing but the damage people like you cause does need healing. The correct information is available and there is no need to remain ignorant of the facts. If you do not care to become educated, step aside, others do.

Scintillate - yes but you CAN get married, you just choose not to. So pardon if I don't have any sympathy for how "unfairly" you are being treated.

Oops, Kinky Friedman

The Commissioner of Education is stoking the fire of hysterical rhetoric by even asking about the possibility of homosexuality "being taught" in school. Abortion is legal; if a teacher discusses it, is he or she advocating it or merely dealing with reality of it? The religious wack jobs need to keep their predjudiced beliefs out of our schools.

joedoe, loved your 12:45 posts, spot on! Once someone truly experiences Gods power and grace, you will never be the same again. I know it firsthand and God promises to do it. The only catch is its going to be on His terms not yours.

JoeDoe - Yes I do realize that gay couples can not procreate children biologically, I was a science major in college thanks. I must have missed the point in my post where I stated that my ideal society would be nothing but gay people. Just because YOUR ideal society would only have people that share your sexual orientation doesn't mean mine would. I have not problem with straight people, some of my favorite people are straight. Sounds like you are the one that may be a bit deceived if you believe that gay people want to eradicate straights.

Scintillate, If its just a piece of "paper" then why not get married then?

12:49 PM, Scintillate, but you have the option of marrying that will correct all the unfairness. Gay people who want to be legally married do not have that option, or will not after the majority votes it down. What you actually oppose is government licensing of marriage and the privileges that gives those who participate in it. You are as opposed to heterosexual marriage as you are to gay marriage. I don't understand why, if you love that person, you would not want to marry unless it has something to do with survivor benefits from a previous spouse being revoked after one of you marry and that, if it is the case, is a benefit of marriage that you did take advantage of.

protect and celebrate the human person ...vote "yes" on 1...

4him said: "ricts1.. pssst, Leviticus wasn't a person LOL, it got that name from the septaugint, greek translation of the old testament. "

__________________________________________________________

actually, 4him, you are incorrect again. Leviticus is a greek word, but "it didn't get that name from the septuagint" and "the septuagint is not the greek translation of the old testament".

1.) The books of Moses were named by the first word that appears in each of the 5 books. The first book is named "bereishet" as the first few words are bereishet bara elohim et hashamayim v'et haeretz (btw, your 2nd greek translation got it wrong right from the start, but that's another story). Second book is named "shemot" as the first few words are: v'aleh shemot b'nai Yisrael. Third is vayikra, as the first few words are: vayikra el mosheh vaydabar adonai... The fourth is "bamidbar": vaydaber adonai el mosheh bamidbar sinai. Fifth is "debarim" : elah hadebarim asher debar.

The "titles" of the "books" are a greek invention because the original scrolls (the Torah) is one continuous scroll that is divided by the writers into sections called parshas. The greeks also artificially sectioned off the scroll into chapters and verses that did not line up with the original sections called parshas. This, at times, (especially within the writings of the prophets) gives a different meaning in the translations than the original.

2.) The Torah was originally translated into Greek by 72 rabbis around 250BCE. ONLY the Torah was translated by these 72 rabbis. The remainder of the Hebrew bble (the prophets and writings) were not translated until much later, and it was done by non-Jews. Only the first "septuagint" is considered to be "the septuagint", this second translation of the remainder (which also utilized the original septuagint) unfortunately got labeled the "septuagint" also, which causes alot ot confusion.

so, 4him, you want to keep going on your "bible expertise" or do you want to just quit now while you still have some degree of credibility left?

Hmmm...do they teach about the single parent household, the household where the adults are not married, the step-family, etc. in school? NO THEY DO NOT. So why would they start teaching about homosexuality in school? Sex ed isn't about marriage...it is about healthy relationships (without bullying, control, etc.), reproduction, and STDs. And the schools send home a letter stating what is going to be taught and that you can elect to have your child sit out of that discussion. Get a grip people and stop spreading fear and hate!

seacoast, I personally know of many people that have truly experienced God first hand without any outside influence other than their own reading and searching of the bible with a sincere and open heart..... I'm one of them. You never ever convince me that God isn't real and that the bible is just another book written by mere mortals. Do you really think were all so stupid? Doesn't it ever cross your mind that maybe there is something to this? don't you ever wonder how the bible has survived as long as it has?

Tolbig80 you missed my point. no one wants to eradicate anyone. i was trying to contradict your point that homosexuality is normal and should be accepted. Yes its a fact of society. we all live with it. I love gays. they are my neighbors. I simply believe its wrong and i have a right to vote on keeping marriage in its God ordained definition.

JoeDoe: @ 12:22 VERY well put

Hmmm..... "gay friendly sites?"

Let's see....

The American Medical Association.... you stand with them in opposing socialized medicine, but reject there teaching on homosexuality

The American Psychological Association.... You probably don't agree with them on anything. They're too cerebral for you...

The American Psychiatric Association.... Well since they depathologized homosexuality 36 years ago, you discount anything they say.

Talk about pathology!

for you bible reading vote nos. there are references speaking against homosexuality in the new testament too. paul spoke against it. Jude did. look it up. you folks are hilarious.

shadowman has the worst case of hiccups when he/she reads the bible. he/she skips over alot of stuff. (it must be by accident).

John 8:42-48 speaks of people who simply will not believe the truth, even in its plain language.

JoeDoe at 12:45 you wrote "God can heal homosexuality if you believe. I was healed of alcoholism, generations of it in my family. Repent and call on the name of Jesus. thats the only thing that is ever going to save any of us..................thats the truth. take it or leave it."

If that is not an invitation to eradication I don't know what is. I invite you to define normal, it's a relative term. I would challenge your statement that you love gays, as you think it is correct and proper to deny them rights and equal protections. We don't need that kind of love. Unfortunately Maine is giving you the right to vote on this issue. I look forward to the day that SCOTUS will step in and declare anything but full and equal rights to all citizens unconstitutional. Until then I guess we will each just have to vote for what we believe is right.

JoeDoe:

anybody that has problems with the law and end up in prison,, or ends up falling on addictions to pills and alcohol alway say they have found the lord and the lord has led them on the road to recovery. Some people need god to help them and I'm glad that they have somthing to help them,but I myself do not need god to cure me of homosexuality,or get over any addictions,if i wasn't happy with my life I would change it on my own.I do not need a crutch to lean on or anybodyelse to resolve addictions in my life I am secure enough in my ability to to things on my own. Sounds to me that you are still hitting the bottle by some of your comments.

Already Voted No On 1

12:22 PM, JoeDoe, and how is extending marriage to gay couples embracing something you don't believe in. Are you being asked to marry someone of the same sex?

A flaw in Maine's law allows the majority to remove a civil rights legislation that was intended to improve the lives of a hated minority.

I've read all of your posts, and you obviously wasted your money on 2 college degrees.

I keep finding myself coming back to this story and the topic. I just hope that the people that are against homosexuality are actually open to the conversation of it at home. Children need to understand that this is happening around them. The topic is going to come up at school with friends or as a classroom discussion no matter what the outcome of Question 1 is. However it is brought up they will have questions and need guidance.

The topic should be discussed at home just as you would talk to your children about drugs, sex, and violence. Ignorance of the conversation is not going to make the topic go away.

franforter, or is it rachael? Leviticus literally means “relating to the Levites” The book was written mainly about the service of worship at the tabernacle, along with instructions on the laws of ceremonial cleanness, moral laws and Holy days. The book was given directly to Moses from God himself. Like I said before, You love to throw out your Hebrew, shame you actually are resorting to promoting homosexuality using Gods Holy word. Most of the time I find you so out to lunch, your not even worthy

of a response.

Sorry folks but the truth is: the bible has no bearing on civil law.

Eventually, the federal government will come around, fix things, tell the freakishly religious folks to go away, and the freakishly religious folks will run around wailing that "America is falling from the grace of God" just like they did with women voting, ending Jim Crow, interracial marriage and anything else that the government has to step in on.

You know I'm right. You know it's going to happen.

Keep wasting your money: in the end, it ain't gonna matter.

here, here !

1:21 PM, greencat, good point but do we want some of the ideas you see in print here repeated to children? I think not. I have posted a link to the APA's explanation of sexual orientation.

http://www.apa.org/topics/sorientation.html

I'm still waiting for my lesson on Leviticus, forHIM. I truly want to be able to understand how you reconcile some of those writings and not the others.

forHIMtoday wrote: "franforter, or is it rachael? Leviticus literally means “relating to the Levites” The book was written mainly about the service of worship at the tabernacle, along with instructions on the laws of ceremonial cleanness, moral laws and Holy days. The book was given directly to Moses from God himself. Like I said before, You love to throw out your Hebrew, shame you actually are resorting to promoting homosexuality using Gods Holy word. Most of the time I find you so out to lunch, your not even worthy of a response."

Yet you respond, to all but questions as to why you rely on a bad translation and the resulting mal-interpretation of Leviticus, and questions as to why you get to pick and choose which things to ignore in it and which ones to over-emphasize. But by all means, ignore, deny, and distract some more !

HRH419, you yes voter's are taking quite a beating here today...

Be brave :)

On 10/8/09 at 12:40 PM, JoeDoe wrote: "TolBig80 12:33pm - You do understand that same sex couples can't procreate children biologically right? Your ideal society would last only one generation and you think that its right?! man you are deceived."

When did anyone advocating for marriage equality state that their ideal was a 100% homosexual society? You're erecting straw men again, JoeDoe. Only a small percentage of the human population is homosexually oriented. Were they all to marry a same-sex partner, the human race would be in no danger of dying out. There will still be a sizable percentage of heterosexuals who can provide the progeny necessary to further continuance of the species.

Unless you can furnish proof that marriage equality advocates are calling for the conversion of all heterosexuals into homosexuals (something we already know is not possible) then I ask you to leave the straw in the field and concentrate on the actual issues at hand.

As the AG report will confirm Mass. and Maine laws are quite different. An impact in Mass does not translate into Maine. Even in Mass they are teaching about Marriage Equality. The article inaccurately states that the parents sued over "lessons". They did not they sued of a book a teacher gave someone at school and that person gave to their child. The suit was on whether the parents could change policy so that the book was banned in that district. They lost because same-sex marriage unlike sex education is not controversial. There is no slipery slope here just the paranoia of people driven by hate.

politicallyincorrect, Jesus never said anything against homosexuals. You are following gay Catholic Monks from the 4 and 5th centuries, not Jesus.

Let's be clear on this Conservatives are re-writting the Bible right now. Their goal is to remove or replace "liberal" words, phrases, and verses i.e the four gospels will become the 4 sentences. The Bible is a purely political work created to justify one group or anothers power within the church.

The argument that if LD 1020 becomes law it will allow the teaching of same-sex marriage is nonsense. Any school district in maine can teach about same-sex marriage now. Nothing provents it today.

As everyone knows Public Schools were designed to "couple up" heterosexual children and harass gay children. Anyone who thinks differently is naive or a liar.

Oh, it will take much more than this group Tel. : )

ricts1, I guess I never did see your actual question. I'm sure I can guess. there the same ones used by all the proponents of homosexuality. Let me see, probably has to do with Shellfish, clothes of mixed fibers, multiple wifes etc.. Okay I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your sincere.

Heres a link you can go to. Excellent resource where you can basically type in most questions and get a good answer. am at work, not avoiding you. Sorry for the delay

http://www.christiananswers.net/

@ forHIMtoday 12:28 p.m.

at least I read, go to school, and learn proper grammar!

your equals belonging

you're equals you are

before you insult me, at least try to be smart about it. :)

and are you supposed to capitlize the B in Bible?

Also, I wouldn't say I'm putting down the Bible so much as putting down the people who blindly follow it without any critical thinking. I actually don't believe in following the herd. Isn't "herd" typically a metaphor found in Christian literature? The only herd followers are those who refuse to think critically. If you find personal meaning and experience a personal journey of faith and live spiritually as a person, and if the Bible helps you do this, I think that is wonderful. However it is not wonderful when reading or subscribing to any dogma leads you to hate an entire group of people, or even one person. Such anger, such hostility for someone claiming to love God.

forhim @ 1:07...no, I don't think you are stupid for believing the bible. I don't know why people choose to accept such things and in such varying degrees. The people who flew the jets into the WTC on 9-11 were true believers, too. The human mind is very open to manipulation, whether it's religion, advertising or just someone's forceful opinion.

I think the bible and its teachings have survived because of the human need to believe there's something more than just what we see. I've just never latched on to such thinking. Your mindset makes you unyielding to anything that counters the bible, it seems.

People need to evolve through the process of learning. Religious dogma stands in the way of that.

forHIM, I am being sincere (mostly, heh) in that I do want a clear understanding of where you are coming from, especially when Leviticus keeps being referenced. I cannot go to the website you noted to get my answers, for I, too, am at work, and I cannot get to it through our firewalls, etc. (All kinds of sites are blocked, email, pretty much everything - somehow newspaper sites usually are allowed access.) I don't begrudge Christians for their faith, but I do feel it is fair to ask how you can tell me that being gay is a sin unto God, because it says so in Leviticus. Yet Leviticus apparently says that owning slaves is OK. That I can sell my own children into slavery, that people working on Sundays need to be put to death, and a whole host of other issues. These, too, seem to be "the Words of God" since they are in Leviticus, the same place you reference to tell me that being gay is a sin.

I'm hope you can understand why I'm having a hard time believing one thing without believing the other. These are issues that make me a bit hesitant to take everything the Bible says literally. And when you you don't take everything the Bible says literally, where do you start, and where do you stop? It then, again, becomes an issue of making the Bible say what you want it to. At least that is how it seems to me.

Once again, I'm not trying to patronize you. I defend your right to believe how you wish. I hope you defend my right to not believe what i wish. I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion debating this issue with you, and this is a problem I have that I would like clarification on. I never see it defended, by you or by anyone else here that quickly touts the Bible as reason to believe that being gay is a sin.

2:11 PM, seacoast, its the GOD drug!

ricts1, fair enough. Fully understand your view for I too held that same position. I do believe the bible from cover to cover, every last bit. I came at it with a very critical mind actually bent on refuting a pastor. The rest is history. You have never seen me refer to levitcus when referring to homosexuality. There's plenty in the new testament alone.Time and time again I've heard of the same thing happening to people that are now Christians. The bible is alive, and is as relevant today as the day it was written. I've struggled with many questions myself only to find that once you find the answer placed in its proper context and with the traditions of the people at the time it is written makes perfect sense. Its always one of those WOW moments for me. Save the sight I gave you for when you get home and do the searches yourself. Wish you well. Wish I had the time right now but I don't. Also will be gone for several days.

Ya, they always say that these laws will not be pushed on or taught to our kids in schools. Why was there a lawsuit filed sept. 3 2009 against school districts, by parents. The school districts had a mandatory class for children starting at the kindergarten level. The classes were about teaching all kids at the elementary level about gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender alternative families. The parents were refused the right to excuse their kids from the class. This class was protected under the law and is mandatory. The people that came up with this class argue that it's to prevent sexual discrimination. It's a great loophole. I don't care who you are, try to argue that this story is false. It is true. All you have to do is google it. It takes place at Alameda Unified School District, check it out. They also say that these classes are coming to mass. and maine soon. My child does not need to be taught that.

so, 4him responds, but it's not to the few simple questions asked of him over the past several months---he thinks it's BENEATH him to answer questions after all---

nah, he tries to get "one up" on me because I corrected his interpretation of the Jewish holy books. Wow, really mature of you 4him. See, the thing is, it doesn't really matter what YOU THINK the text says or what it is about. It was written in Hebrew, NOT GREEK, so your little speil about what YOU THINK "leviticus" means has no bearing. You can thank the greeks for that though. Interesting thing is, the Greeks said the artificially assembled book that they "renamed Leviticus" is "relating to the Levites" is in itself inaccurate. The Levites are but a small footnote in all the parshas contained in this artificially reassembled "book". It contains quite a bit more than what you have stated, and if you knew how to read Hebrew, you would realize that. If you had an understanding of the Torah, you would understand what many other posters here are trying to tell you---that you can't pick and choose what is applicable to you. You really don't know what covenant you are under because your translation of Paul's letter to the Hebrews is poor, and in many places Paul doesn't copy properly from the Septuagint....and you have the nerve to perpetuate the false beliefs...

As for your false accusation that I am "promoting homosexuality", I want proof from you---solid proof, not your pathetic conjecture, of this. Otherwise you are again bearing false witness---LYING, which you are bound by---or are you going to try that new-age mumbo jumbo about "not being under the law but under grace".....

.oh, and it's not Rachel

"My child does not need to be taught that."

If they're going to teach it, then intolerance voting down marriage equality will not stop them from teaching it. It'll happen anyway.

2:54 PM, tanker99, if that is true, it was done to help make kids of those families and gay children safe in school. You don't think there was talk about sex, do you?

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning youth are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers, according to the Massachusetts 2006 Youth Risk Survey. A 2007 San Francisco State University Chavez Center Institute study shows that lgbt and questioning youth who come from a rejecting family are up to nine times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers. And for every completed suicide by a young person, it is estimated that 100 to 200 attempts are made (2003 Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance Survey).

I would like to see them teach a class about straight families. We would see an uproar from those that are for gar marriage. They would say it's indoctrination Just like the parents are saying in California..

lol Life is about straight couples. 98% of all couples are straight. That's really a paranoid idea you have. Think about it.

i dunno, but i think its appropriately ironic than whenever i read '4him' at a glance it looks like 4chan...

except Anon makes more sense.

William DS - I'm Catholic, white, and straight. Can we teach about that to make me safe? I don't think we can for some reason. That's how the minority of the country can get by teaching this in Schools. They say it's to protect us and to show their side of life, but the minute the majority teaches their views in schools, it's considered racist and unconstitutional. The day my views can be taught in school is the day that I might be more open to other views.

"i dunno, but i think its appropriately ironic than whenever i read '4him' at a glance it looks like 4chan...

except Anon makes more sense."

BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!! HA HA HA HA... oh, man... that's freaking good!!!

Paranoid no, realistic yes

This thread metamorphosed into Sunday School with a bee in every bonnet.

3:20 PM, tanker99, you still don't get it do ya? You are safe by default, and sure......go ahead and teach it, but you need to teach what makes everyone safe, not just people like you. You should not be able to marginalized a group by calling them sinners.....perverts, queer, immoral. All those terms are subjective and cause harm to a group of people.

Also fair enough, forHIM. I'm still perplexed, though. Even though you're not referencing Leviticus in your arguments against homesexuality, you tell me that you believe every last bit of the Bible. So explain to me how you can believe every last bit of it, and how you reconcile slavery, sacrifices, working on Sunday, and the rest of the Leviticus stuff. I'm really not hung up soley on this Leviticus thing, that just happens to be the mosty prominent example. I'm sure there are many others, and that they would have to be viewed "in context". That is the tipping point. Who gets to choose what is "in context" and what isn't? What are examples of "the times in which they lived" that can be disregarded, and what examples can't? Who makes that decision? Moses isn't here for an update.

The Bible is an ancient book, written by men, about beliefs held true at that time. I do not mean to denigrate it. I just find it difficult to believe that it is possible to believe every word of it, as writtten, can be applied to society in 2009. And as such, how one can use the Bible as the reason to discriminate against people who are committing no crime recognized by the government under which we live.

3:00 PM, frankforter, marry me! lol

Actually, the Bible was written for a relatively small population. There were people on the continent of Africa, Asia, The Americas, and Australia, on whom it was forced in fairly recent times.

OH!.... I forgot they didn't exist! bwaaaahaaahaaa...

From Teen Talk:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/teens/ci_13464823?nclick_check=1

"Teen Talk: My parents don't know my boyfriend's parents are gay

I've been dating a guy for eight months and I think I really might be in love. We're both juniors and really good students and good teenagers. My parents really like "Robby." But I've been keeping a huge secret from them. Robby's parents are both guys. They had Robby with a surrogate so he really doesn't even have a mom. They are really nice and I feel comfortable with them. I've lied to my parents the whole time because they are so ultra-conservative. My dad is a banker and wears a suit every day to work. Boring! My mom is a special-education teacher and she's wound so tight at times it is painful. They are loud about their Republican beliefs and don't listen to other people's opinions. They are inflexible and unaccepting.

My mom is asking to meet Robby's "mom and dad." She has spoken with one of Robby's dads on the phone but she doesn't know another dad exists. I don't want this to come between my parents and Robby. Should I just break up with him now and avoid doing this or lie and tell my mom that his parents don't want to meet? "

.......

Your kids already know about homosexuality. And they're learning a lot about it in school -- from their peers.

Banning same-sex marriage isn't going to change this one whit.

ricts1, found this brief Q and A on one of my sites. Though it would shed some light on some of your questions.

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/GTY89

PHIL: Well, I mention that because a lot of Christians seem confounded by some of the argumentation that is thrown up against the position that Scripture condemns homosexuality. They will inevitably say, "Well that's Moses' law, but Moses Law also forbids you to wear mixed fabrics. So you couldn't wear cotton and, you know, wool at the same time or in the same garment." A polyester suit, they would say, is nearly as sinful as homosexuality.

JOHN: Yeah, but you already answered that question when you pointed out that the sin of homosexuality transcends the Law. It appears in Genesis and even, as I said, going all the way back to when God created man and woman to be together to procreate, to multiply and fill the earth, one man, one woman, leaving and cleaving, that was God's original design. It never changed. You have long after the Law in its ceremonial and its civil order is abrogated in the New Covenant, the affirmation of the sin of homosexuality, as I pointed out in the letters of the Apostle Paul. So, it transcends that. It is...it is important for people to understand that when you read the Law of Moses, when you read the book of Exodus, you read the book of Leviticus, or you go into the book of Deuteronomy, you must always sort out what was moral law and what was civil law because there were things going on in those days by which God endeavored to protect and preserve His people from the evil influences of the nations around them. And the way that God did that was to restrict them civilly, to restrict them socially, to cause them to conform to certain kind of rules and habits whether they were dressed like that, the kind of fabric, whether they were dietary laws, cooking laws, domestic laws, whatever they were, those kinds of things as well as all the varying ceremonies that had some symbolic meaning...that was intended to make it impossible for the Jewish people to have easy social access to all the nations around them. And that was for their own protection so that they didn't mix and embrace the idol worshipers that were really a part of their whole world. So those were civil and social laws. And God gave those in order to protect and preserve His people so that they could effectively obey His moral laws. And, of course, because of Israel's unbelief, the captivity in the northern kingdom, 722, the captivity of the southern kingdom in 586 B.C., they're taken away and into captivity. And Babylon, as you know, they come back 70 years later but they're only a fragment of what they once were. By the time you get to the time of Jesus, the Messiah shows up, the Messiah comes, He offers the Kingdom to Israel. Instead of embracing the Messiah and receiving the Kingdom, they kill the Messiah, they kill the Prince of life, and wanted a murderer to be released to them, you remember. They are therefore temporarily set aside again. The Lord does what benefitted all of us, right? The original branch, Paul says in Romans 9 to 11, is cut off and a new branch is grafted in to the tree of Abrahamic salvation blessing. And there will be a future day, Romans very clear on this, Israel is not forsaken forever. They'll be grafted back in. But for now they have been set aside for their rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ. And there is now a New Covenant community of people made up of Jew and Gentiles and for us the ceremonial and civil law of the theocratic kingdom of Israel is set aside. And we are left with the moral law which transcends that and that law clearly embraces sexual behavior. And since marriage is the model from Genesis 2, any deviation of that is a violation of God's moral law.

William I don't thin you get it, I'm not saying I'm not safe, I'm being sarcastic. It was a joke, but it must of flew over your head. I am saying, you will never get enough support for your cause, because not just gays but the radical left always find ways to push their views into schools, thats why teaching it to prevent discrimination is one of those ways, it is a loophole in the system. Yes, teasing in school is wrong, name calling is wrong, but you don't see people that are overweight, bad acne, too skinny, too poor, different skin colors, religions, bald, big eared, man boobs, big hips, lazy eyes, foreign, etc calling to have classes to teach about discrimination about their category they fall in. It is ridiculous. Teach about discrimination as a whole, containing all groups. Instead, people that have the same views as yourself want to show kids of men making out and cross dressers. Have you seen the cartoon that was showed to children in California schools? It is about a grown man dancing in a bikini and kissing another man. Is that the way to teach about discrimination? No, but they always have to push the envelope. Thats why I don't support it. My child doesn't even think about straight marriage, she doesn't need to be taught about gay marriage.

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of expressions like 'proponents of homosexuality'. Or 'promoting homosexuality'. Or 'NO voters are FOR HOMOSEXUALITY'.

I'm voting NO on 1 because it's just the right thing to do. But being against banning something doesn't automatically make someone a proponent. If Question 1 was worded in such a way that it asked, are you in favor of gay marriage, my verbal answer would be, why not, so my vote would have to be YES. But, my NO vote to BAN gay marriage is, because I'm a proponent of EQUALITY. Checking NO reflects my verbal answer of why should I ban it?!

That in no way should be labeled as promoting or being a proponent of something. I'm accepting diversity exists. I'm not out waving a flag that says Jump on the Gay Bandwagon. Geez...I'm heterosexual. I'm not out campaigning for that either. That's not what the question is about.

Tanker, beautifully put!

TJBinBGR: People like you are a continual renewal of my hope for the world.

tanker99: Why is your discomfort about what your daughter may or may not know about homosexuality sufficient grounds to revoke someone else's rights?

Believe me when I say (or don't -- your call) that she will know plenty by the time she graduates, and if #1 passes, all you'll have achieved is removing the right of others to protect their relationship. And you'll likely have created a climate where your daughter will know full well that she really can't come to you with any subject that might be uncomfortable.

Haakon, and after reading your 4:19 PM, I've got your back. :) Good post!

Voting NO on 1!

TJ: My husband and I (and my folks in Bangor) thank you!

We need to ask ourselves… if we really are concerned about children, why wouldn’t we support same-sex marriage? In a Joint Statement from the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and the American Psychiatric Association for the Senate Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Subcommittee of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee Hearing on Suicide Prevention and Youth: Saving Lives

March 3, 2004, it sates “There is strong evidence that gay, lesbian and bisexual youth of both sexes are significantly more likely to experience suicidal thoughts and attempted suicide. A number of studies have shown that the increased risk ranges from 2-fold to 7-fold. Gay, lesbian and bisexual youths were shown in these studies to carry a number of risk factors for suicidal behavior, including high rates of drug and alcohol use. Gay adolescents are at significant risk for suicide due to chronic bullying and victimization at school.” When we say “same sex marriage is bad”, gay (or those who are questioning their sexuality) hear “You are bad”. When we say “we don’t value gay couples as equal couples”, they hear “we don’t value you”. Gay and lesbian youth have existed as long as humanity itself. You must agree with this if you say the homosexuality is addressed in the Bible, a document almost two thousand years old Why do we want to make the challenges they face any more difficult? With issues surrounding drugs, alcohol, mental illness, etc., why would we want to add “just one more thing” to the plates of these troubled youths? I ask you to join me in saying “You are good” and “We value you” by voting NO on Question 1. Isn’t the life of even one troubled child worth it?

3:12 PM "I would like to see them teach a class about straight families." That has been done....Dick and Jane...and dog Spot...and the house with white picket fence. There are still books in the schools that depict straight families. Go into an elementary school.etc and look at the books! Education is learning about the whole world....not just bits and pieces and what makes one "comfortable" and aligns totally with what they think and believe. That is not education. That is a narrow little perspective. There are other families in this country and world now, besides the ones depicted years ago. If you want more books depicting straight families with the white male at the head of the household, you can find books like that and take them into the school your kid (s) attend. People donate books all the time.

4:04 PM, tanker99, ever see what goes on a straight parties? People don't photograph those things, only things they see as different from what they do. The vast majority of gay people do not behave any differently than the majority of straight people. Because your eyes are drawn to the one person who is the most visible doesn't mean the people standing all around you are straight.

If you are opposed to gay people having civil rights, which you obviously are, would you be opposed to making them exempt from paying taxes?

Haakon...this forum sure has been an eye-opener. Must be a dozen different reasons why people want this to pass. And not one has changed my opinion that voting to ban something just because it makes you uncomfortable or you don't understand it is the right thing to do. The 'live and let live' lesson of my childhood is too firmly ingrained. :)

Voting NO on 1 (and bringing 3 NO voters with me...ha!) :)

ITguru: Yes, and as you say, homosexuality has been in existence for a very long time ; for so much of that time (and including today) some feel the need to hide it because of the way they are treated by some. Luckily, a lot of that has changed.

Vote NO on 1.

Here's a true story that may help some others understand why this is so important. This happened to me and my partner last month:

Last month my partner of ten years and I were married in Massachusetts. After staying there for a few days, we headed up to Maine to spend some time with my folks.

My parents are "old school Catholics." They both attended Catholic school from kindergarten through 12th grade, have always been active in their local parish, give substantially to charities, and have taken positions of leadership in church-related organizations.

And yet they welcome us into their home and treat us no differently than they would my siblings and their spouses. They are very good people, and I honor and treasure them. We are not always of a mind on some things, but our love for each other makes it easy to treat one another with dignity and respect.

As they get on in years, my partner (now husband) and I are concerned about them eventually needing additional care. We have taken steps in our professional certification paths that would allow us to move from our current home in the Midwest to New England so we could be close to them when necessary. Ideally, we'd relocate to Maine, but it would be a hard sell if our marriage wasn't recognized by the State. (It should be stated that the only real reason we're still in the Midwest is because our son is attending college here. Once he graduates, we'll likely look eastward for a place to settle and eventually retire.)

Another matter that we need to consider when we relocate is how the government views our relationship, specifically regarding property/inheritance rights, powers of attorney, matters of next of kin, and the sharing of retirement benefits. Of great concern is how we would be treated (in an administrative, if not personal sense) if one of us was in hospital.

Recently my husband had to be transported via ambulance to the emergency room, and was back in the emergency room of another hospital within a matter of days. He faced a life-threatening medication interaction, and part of the symptoms included mental confusion.

I knew his medical history better than anyone there, I was in a more lucid (if anxious) state, and was better able to articulate the medications he'd taken, and in what dose. I had been up with him the entire night before our second visit to the emergency room, drove him to the hospital, and was able to provide important information that helped the doctors in diagnosing the problem quickly and correctly.

What would have happened if the staffs of the hospitals decided that I was not related to him and barred me from being in the ER room with him? What if his confusion had progressed to the point that he was unable to give important information to the doctors? It is no overstatement when I say that without this information, he could easily have died.

Where we live, we were blessed to be at hospitals that welcomed me into the emergency room and allowed me to be with him the entire time, but others are not so fortunate.

I often hear that all we need do is to have powers of attorney, and related legal documents drawn up, and the problem will be solved, but such is not the case. A couple of years ago, a woman suffered a brain aneurysm and was hospitalized. Her partner of 17 years was barred from being with her as she lay dying. Despite the couple having the necessary legal forms, the hospital prevented the two from being together. As the patient was in a coma, she was not able to advocate for herself, and she died alone. Her partner was not able to be with her "wife" as she lay dying. The reason for this was provided by a hospital staff member: "this is not a gay friendly hospital." The surviving partner took the case to court, and just this week it was dismissed. There is no legal recourse available.

In 2004, the Virginia Legislature passed a law that states "A civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement between persons of the same sex purporting to bestow the privileges or obligations of marriage is prohibited. Any such civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia and any contractual rights created thereby shall be void and unenforceable."

There is a the distinct possibility that legal documents such as wills, medical directives, powers of attorney and the like are meaningless if the contract is between two same-sex persons.

Additionally, Virginia prohibits companies -- even private companies, unless self-insured -- from extending health insurance benefits to unmarried couples.

In the United States, marriage (from a secular, civil perspective) is a legal and binding contract between two persons that automatically conveys numerous rights, privileges and protections to the couple entering into the contract (the marriage.) There is no other legal route that does this. Where civil unions or domestic partnerships have been enacted in this country, they fell far short of conveying the same rights, protections, etc. to the civilly united couple.

The only real way to achieve parity and enable all couples to protect their relationships and their families is to extend the definition of marriage to include same-sex couples. We are not seeking to attack marriage. Quite the contrary, we see marriage as a worthy institution, and wish to strengthen it by joining the ranks of married persons ourselves. We treasure the thought of being able to be legally joined with the person we love.

Please do what you can to help strengthen marriage by including loving, committed couples who only wish the best for our relationships and for our families.

Please vote No on 1.

-anonon & WilliamDS thx for the personal insults. debating with a failed argument is tough isnt it?

WilliamDS 3:08. You said that gay youth are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide. now why would anyone

want to teach there children that homosexuality is okay then? i'm sure your going to say the suicides are all because

they were teased and picked on. i think sadly some are. but the lifestyle carries a lot of shame with it. Shame that only repentance

and the washing away of sins can take away. Jesus blood paid for all of our shame. One only needs to turn to him.

A question for the God-reps...

I've been wondering....if a homosexual child of intolerant parents kills himself, do the parents condemn his soul for the homosexuality, or the suicide?

And, does their God send him to hell with the homosexual t-shirt or the suicide one...oh yes, and finally, do the intolerant parents celebrate the realization the world has one less homosexual in it.

A lot has changed...but not enough.

Vote No on 1.

It's not a matter of "teaching it". The most basic common sense tells you that if marriage or families are discussed in schools, then gay marrriage would HAVE to be included and discussed IN THE SAME LIGHT as any other marriage..........or there would be lawsuits (no wait, I take that back: gay/lesbian activists aren't the suing kind, what was I thinking??!! lol)

The only other option is to NEVER get within a mile of discussing anything to do with marriage, families, dating, etc.................EVER. Avoid the subject like the plague.

There's no third option. Even a Maine third-grader educated in our notorioulsy bad public schools can figure this one out.

reaganite: And what will this accomplish? As I mentioned above, your kids are going to learn about it anyway. All you will have accomplished is to revoke an existing right from a class of people you don't like. If preventing your child from being exposed to the concept of same-sex marriage is the goal, this is not the way to achieve it.

Oh, and I started teaching my 9th grade students about homophobia, tolerance, etc. back in NINETEEN EIGHTY EIGHT..............long before it was "hip" or even OKAY to do so..... I knew it as important.

No wait---that can't be true.............I couldn't have done that...........because I'm a homophobic supporter of traditional marriage. By deault.

Sorry. I never did any of those things I said I did.

Haakon, at least YOU ask a reasonable, actual question.

What I'm getting at is the sheer DISHONESTY of our leftist state government officials and bureucrats, as well as the pro-redefining- marriage lobby, when they said that it isn't at all clear that gay marriage would affect what's discussed in our public schools, in classrooms.

Yes. Yes it is clear. Crystal clear.

Liars.

If that's true, reaganite, will you still vote to revoke the right of same-sex couples to protect their relationships? If so, then you will be no better than those you are calling liars, for you will have used a false premise as your justification for legislating discrimination.

Tanker99 and 4him, all one can do for WilliamDS and ricts is pray. Blindness and deception has fallen on a lot of people. We might as well start arguing about the resurrection. These people want to live in there sin and want everyone to accept it. They want to cherrypick scripture and twist it to make say what they want.

uhhh, just so you know, JoeDoe, you don't need to "pray" for me. I'm straight as they come, married to my wife (and she to me, her husband) for over twenty years now, two wonderful children in public schools who are quite tolerant of other people. One of my sons good friends has a gay parent, and my son doesn't give two hoots about it. Nor do any of theit other friends. All of us parents get along quite nicely, and our kids are all welcome at each others houses. I guess we must've raised them the right way.

I am simply horrified at the way some people treat other people. Equal just isn't equal for all. "Pray" for someone else, or perhaps your own soul. If there is such a thing as Judgement Day, I'm afraid you might have some 'splaining to do. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Judge not lest ye be judged. Great words to live by. Go ahead, begin.

4:44 PM, JoeDoe, you obviously didn't read it. It's a study done by the entities listed in the paragraph. .....and yes, it's because they are mistreated in their families and communities. These studies are done by professionals whose education you payed for.

Haakon, no dishonesty here. I DESPISE sneakiness and prefer it all to be out in the open, when debating pubilc policy.

That said, I have to ask what you mean by "revoke the right of same sex coules to protect their relationships"?? Are you talking about the referendum?? If so, then why in the world woulld you not just ask if I was voiting Yes on 1?? And what do you mean by "used a false premise for justifying legislating discrimination?" What is the false premse? Again, i prefer it ALL out in the open.

And you start your post by saying "if that's true". IF that's true?? IF?? Sigh.

My support for question 1 does not hinge on some biased state official weighing in on "IF" a blatantly obvious consequence of question 1' s defeat would happen or not!

I'll thank you to not pray for me also. You are cherrypicking scripture. If you want to live by the Bible, try living by all of it, not just "selected shorts."

Actually......it's personal insult to call people sinners, is it not? And isn't it a judgement?

Getting back to the subject of the article, force feeding children to learn about homosexual marriage in a classroom is simply wrong. It is not in their best interest. Legalizing gay marriage will allow for this awful subject to infiltrate the curriculum where it clearly does not belong.

Exactly where in this bill does it "allow for this awful subject" to be taught in schools? It has NOTHING to do with schools, only about two adults entering into a committment, and being married. Our schools have nothing to do with it. And therin lies the big problem, and the big fight. The Yes folks are using this as a scare tactic, plain and simple.

Stay comfortable beneath those rocks you live under.

WilliamDS: Re 5:27 PM Right. And as one who posts here often said on another article,etc. , you want to be careful who you have pray for you!!!

WilliamDS, you can pray for me anytime! (but no, we have our friends and family and people who really know us and who we trust ,etc. for that!) It sounded quite condescending from joedoe though......if he is not going to help some attain the dignities and protections others have, why would you want his prayers......doesn't come across very well, does it!

William: Do you know why a poster ,frankforter, was referred to as Rachael earlier?

JoeDoe :

I have talked to many people that have been addicted to drugs and alcohol and been in trouble with the law and end up in prison for things they have done and they have said that the lord is making them a better person and showing them the ways to change,,, and they end up back in jail or prison and the ones that are addicted to drugs and alcohol use that as a front to make the court system and the counselors think that they have changed to get another break in the system. I say that they are using religion as a tool to fool. I believe that if your life is so bad that you go to alcohol and drugs and crime that the only way to change that is to take charge of your own life and correct the wrong doings yourself. If some choose religion and it works for them that’s great, but nobody and I mean nobody should tell another person how to live their lives. Would you want somebody to tell you who you could marry or not marry? Some say that we need to protect the children, but in turn they say that they want to teach children that homosexuality is wrong ,that they will go to hell for being with the same sex or being in a relationship with somebody of the same sex. What do you think that is going to show the children? People wonder why their children don't come to them with problems. As I stated before I was once married, have 2 kids, my same sex partner was married before and he has 2 kids he and I have been together for 10 years and very involved with raising our 4 children to accept, be respectful, be in tune with peoples feelings and beliefs. We have 4 great kids that love the both of us for who we are and they never go without. There allot of children that don't have such a good life or have 2 parents that care or provide for them or teach them the true values of life. There will always be people in this world that will not approve of other peoples lives but the bottom line is to teach our children to respect and accept everybody no matter what their race ,religion, sexual preference, or flaws are. I have seen parents at a local market making fun of a mentally challenged child to their children, and what does that teach their children? People that inflict pain and ridicule to somebody that has no control over how they are ,are just plain ignorant and I’m sorry for being so blunt. As for the comments about if this was to pass that people will want to marry their dog, cat, or whatever , that is just an ignorant statement. The people that are against same sex marriage are just grasping at straws to sway peoples votes. There have been so many people that have taught their children that it's ok to tease ,bully ,and ridicule children of same sex couples that they even have a site on line for children of same sex couples where they can go to interact and talk to others kids and discuss how they are being taunted at school making their lives a living hell just to be there for each other. It's pretty bad when parents are instilling and raising their children to not be accepting to others lives or situations. People wonder why their are so many children attempting suicide. It all starts with the parents. Even if I was a heterosexual I would have voted No On question 1. I never and I mean never would raise my children to taunt, ridicule or bully any child because they were different, or their parents were different. Everybody should be treated equally the same no matter the circumstance.

ricts1, kind of surprised I went to the trouble of finding you a detailed answer (4:04),and absolutely no comment?? Well, am not really surprised...

I see the simpleton is stirring the pot again LOL

For you deranged prevaricators, just one example:

http://www.capalert.com/samesexmarriage-eduofchild.htm

Vote yes on 1

Actually, forHIM, I had a rather detailed response (too much, probably) and managed to hit the wrong key and "poof" it went away. And as I'm still at work, I haven't had a bunch of time to recreate it. Sorry to "surprise" you....

i do thatnk you for the effort. But all that response did for me was confuse me more. First, it really did sound like a sermon, which was off-putting, but I re-read it a couple of times so as not to react too quickly. I see where the person is coming from. Unfortunately, it goes WAY around the barn trying to justify those writings, at least to this poor heathen.

Let's see if i can find the passage that stuck out.... ah, yes. "you must always sort out what was moral law and what was civil law because there were things going on in those days by which God endeavored to protect and preserve His people from the evil influences of the nations around them"

Let's see if I get this correctly. "Moral" law and "civil" law. Sounds awfully familiar to me. Kinda what we're seeing today, huh? But look closer at the words "there were things going on in those days" and dwell on that for a minute. First of all, we're back to this mans interpretation. Secondly, it appears that things were different when the Bible was written than today, and that we aren't supposed to take it all literally. Lastly, nowhere in the explanation does it explain to this poor uneducated heathen who gets to determine the difference between the things that "were going on in those days" that we can ignore, and the ones that we must continue to "protect' ourselves from.

Give me a more basic explanation, and I'll probably grasp it better. Maybe. Thanks for the effort, seriously.

6:16 PM, forHIMtoday, you are under the mistaken impression that everyone care what Biblical scripture says, simpleton.

WilliamDS: Ha ha ha......

6:25 PM, Sledman, you don't really think this website is a credible source of information, right? You were joking, right? I post from the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association and you post from CAP Ministry Granbury, TX?

anonon: We need more people like you who will bring up their children to respect others for the people they are; if all would do that, there would be so much less bullying in schools and elsewhere. There are many children being brought up in homes with little caring and even abuseful situations. It is good to hear from those like you whose children will turn out great and will be people who will feel good about themselves and therefore about others.

A heterosexual woman voting No on 1.

I understand that nothing we can say here will change the minds of those who will not see, people blinded by oppression religious ideology. You should know however, that gay people are not going to become invisible again and denying them the right to marry will only make them more visible and in your face. Many countries and several states have extended legal marriage to gay couples, including all of Canada in 2005. Despite weeks of asking the question, there has yet to be an explanation as to how that has damaged Canadian society. Only the rants of someone who professes to be an expert on homosexuality because she lived in Las Vegas, and still there were no explanations just inflammatory remarks.

Vote No on One

chersully2000 :

Thank You.

What some people don't understand is that our children are our future and some are raising them to hate,make fun of,and belittle others for their flaws that they have no control over. When I saw the father of 2 children in a market making fun of a child that had disabilities in front of said child it made me sick to my stomach to think that they could be so mean and to show their children that its ok to treat others that way. Children are influenced by their peers and grow up with the same values as taught by their parents. This agenda is about ensuring that everybody is treated equally the same.

Lot of talk about nothing on here again today. When are you people going to learn to accept the truth?

Moral Mainers don't want same sex marriage. The majority will rule in November. Mark my words!!

VOTE YES ON 1!