I think that TABOR opponents make a better case. They seem to have better data and informtion, including on TABOR's track record in Colorado.

NOT (No On TABOR).

Can't wait to vote for the Taxpayer Bill of Rights. Vote YES on 4! You'll like it Gopher. I read an op ed the other day written by a legislator in Colorado who said that TABOR in Colorado has kept that state from going the way of California. That's quite a tribute.

The tax and spenders are writhing in pain in anticipation of having to become fiscally responsible. Vote YES on 4. We the people need to take our state back.

YES YES YES YES YES !!!!!!! OOOOHHHHHH YEEEEESSSS!!!!!!!

Yippee, Cut Baldacci's purse strings vote Yes and stop the drain on our income.

The sword is double edged. Think hard and do the research before you vote.

As distatseful as it is, I am voting for TABOR. We need to send a strong clear message to the buffoons in Augusta that the tax and spend attitude must cease. The next step will be to vote in people that more accurately reflect the will of the people of Maine.

STARVE THE BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!

gopher

the tabor opponents are using the very best statistics that your tax dollars can buy. of course the don't want tabor to pass. go tabor! stop the madness!!

"But the report was based on income tax and sales tax rates that are scheduled to be phased out next year under a tax restructuring bill that supporters claim will lower the tax burden for nearly 90 percent of Mainers.

What a load of crap!

So our income tax went down five bucks.

New taxes on car repairs and a $200 "fee" every time you sneeze more than covers the "savings".

Shrink the spending!

Vote yes all of you and then make sure you stock up on guns, to protect yourself because law enforcement officers will be laid off, extra fire extinguishers or even possibly a built in pool, for the extra water you will need to put the fire out by yourself when your home catches fire because firefighters will also be laid off, and finally, use your extra 15.00 dollars a week you will save because of "Godsend Tabor", and bank it to buy shock absorbers, tires and endless front end alignments on your car as the roads will be destroyed and never fixed because public works will barely exist due to LAYOFFS. When Tabor passes because of misinformed citizens I'm moving to Colorado where everything is free!

The Taxpayers' Bill of Rights doesn't cut any of the programs that the big government socialists claim. All it does is restrict the growth of spending to the rate of inflation plus population growth. If any programs get cut it's because Augusta is fiscally irresponsible and unable to make the tough choices for prioritization.

As I note here, TABOR uses the Consumer Price Index as one of the factors to limit spending and revenue increases:

http://www.dirigoblue.com/diary/516/fun-fact-tabor-uses-the-consumer-price-index-to-limit-tax-and-spending-increases

The obvious flaw with such a formula is that what governments purchase is no way similar to what the average household does.

Hopefully, the BS about the sky falling if TABOR II passes that is being tossed around by those that suck off the public teat doesn't sway enough voters to kill this initiative, as has been the case in the past. Unless you are a public sector employee or on welfare, Maine is a terrible place to do business or to work in. Time to reign in the taxers and spenders. YES on TABOR II!

know_it_all Talk about scare tactic's LOL You should change your name to Chicken Little!

The fear mongering concerning this issue is amazing. TABOR cuts nothing, so no firemen will be laid off and no budgets will be cut. Of course, after TABOR is passed, IF Augusta continues to pass new spending, unless they first get taxpayer approval for new taxes, they will have to take that money away from things like schools and fire departments and road maintenance. Then, they'll point to the cuts caused by their additional spending to tell us that TABOR doesn't work. Pass TABOR now and then put Augusta on notice that their days of spending money willy nilly are over! If they CHOOSE to pass new spending, they better be able to justify taking money away from an existing program, or don't even try it. If we all can live within a budget, so can our state government!

Would the last one in the 43% welfare state in Maine turn the lights out when they leave....Maine people are the ones destroying theri communities. They keep on hiring the same legislatures that keep on passing stupid bills, municipalities now can't pay their bills, and Maine people want to destroy their tax income....Would the last young person in Maine please turn the lights out.....as Maine is not only a terrible place to do business or work in, but is dying from the inside out....Once the older generation like me dies off, New Brunswick, Canada will have to step in and take Maine back, what ever is left of it...I thought my neighbors where smarter than this....

LETS TAKE BACK MAINE....!!!!

Question 1: People's Veto .(VOTE YES)

An Act To End Discrimination in Civil Marriage and Affirm Religious Freedom

"Do you want to reject the new law that lets same-sex couples marry and allows individuals and religious groups to refuse to perform these marriages?"

Question 2: Citizen Initiative ......(VOTE YES)

An Act to Decrease the Automobile Excise Tax and Promote Energy

“Do you want to cut the rate of the municipal excise tax by an average of 55% on motor vehicles less than six years old and exempt hybrid and other alternative-energy and highly fuel-efficient motor vehicles from sales tax and three years of excise tax?”

Question 3: Citizen Initiative .(VOTE YES)

An Act to Repeal the School District Consolidation Laws

“Do you want to repeal the 2007 law on school district consolidation and restore the laws previously in effect?”

Question 4: Citizen Initiative .(VOTE YES)

An Act to Provide Tax Relief

“Do you want to change the existing formulas that limit state and local government spending and require voter approval by referendum for spending over those limits and for increases in state taxes?”

Question 5: Citizen Initiative .(VOTE YES)

An Act to Establish the Maine Medical Marijuana Act

“Do you want to change the medical marijuana laws to allow treatment of more medical conditions and to create a regulated system of distribution?”

Question 6: Bond Issue (VOTE NO)

(Part A of Ch. 414, Public Laws of 2009)

“Do you favor a $71,250,000 bond issue for improvements to highways and bridges, airports, public transit facilities, ferry and port facilities, including port and harbor structures, as well as funds for the LifeFlight Foundation that will make the State eligible for over $148,000,000 in federal and other matching funds?”

Question 7: Constitutional Amendment (VOTE NO)

“Do you favor amending the Constitution of Maine to increase the amount of time that local officials have to certify the signatures on direct initiative petitions?”

Ahhh Maine---a state where its citizens think if you make ovre 50,000 dollars a year and don't live in a trailer park, you are rich

Vote Yes on 4!

I have already voted via absentee ballot. I voted Yes on 1, No on 2, Yes on 3, Yes on 4, No on 5, No on 6 and Yes on 7.

There, that's simple enough!

People are being taxed off their property. Enough is enough. We need to pass TABOR to let the spenders know that there is a limit to live within. Cut the fat; not the necessary services.

Count me YES!!!

They always try to scare us by telling us they will have to cut school, public safety and road construction... What if we told them they can not cut those items. What if we told them they will have to find other areas to make the cuts... Unitl we take control of the purse and not just the strings the system will never work right.

TABOR may sound good on paper, but I'm afraid that in practice it will be a nightmare.

Knowitall had it wrong. This bill does NOT cut any spending, it allows the citizens to vote on the spending. So what are you scared of, do you not trust the citizens of Maine? YES on 4 all the way!! Send a message.

flyfishin, you hit the nail on the head. There are some people that we wish would move out!! Even when you are gone, they State will do just fine, don't flatter yourself.

jonsprag, some people that make over 50k a year in Maine live better than someone making 100k in Boston, or New York City, its called cost of living, maybe you need an education on economics?

Do not fall for the doom and gloom tactics, just like the excise tax. Send a message, Vote YES!!

YES on 4!!

Can someone explain just how the govt will have to lay off..not do road work...how police and firefighters will all of a sudden be cut? How education will suffer so drastically? I haven't seen where tabor does any of that. I see it does limit the politicians state and local from spending stupidly and without accountability. I would think the people will decide how much is appropriate for something since it is their money being spent. From what I see, govt can still do what they feel they must...but only in the confines of inflation numbers...not because they want to overspend. If they have something that needs more money, let them ask the people and explain what it is they need as opposed to them just passing something because they have a majority or feel they want to gain political favor from special interests. One of the left wing comedians said it all...exactly what they think of the people...he said they are idiots and things should just be done cause they don't know any better. I am paraphrasing that but that's the mentality. Sorry, I don't think people are stupid and know more of what's going on than given credit for...especially in their towns. Instead of crying wolf about laying off essential people, maybe these politicians will buget for the important items first...then put the nice to do stuff out there AFTER the important items are accounted for.

Vote NO on 4. TABOR II is unnecessary and will be a disaster for Maine.

Since TABOR I defeat, Maine's budgets have been consistent with its requirements. Maine spending has been held below the rate of inflation, or was approved by statewide vote as TABOR required.

Colorado has suspended TABOR because of the disasterous effects it caused to public services.

Colorado's economic growth has been caused by California's over-population, water supply problems and drought, crime, and environmental degradation which have caused a huge migration from California to Colorado.

Does it make any sense that are economic performance in Maine has been better than the national average (they rated us 24th), but that our prospects are 47th. What is going to cause this disasterous worsening of our economic performance? They don't say. Perhaps its passage of TABOR.

No on 4

TABOR cuts nothing, regardless of the scaremongering. In my opinion TABOR is in fact way too generous. It allows up to a 3.5% increase in government spending without voter approval. My paycheck has not seen that kind of a raise in over a decade. It's been more like 2%, if anything.

How is a 3.5% increase, tied to the rate of inflation and population growth, a cut in any way, shape or form? The NO crowd is lying with their explosive clownish ads.

YES ON 4. We decide.

YES ON 2, while we're at it... The average town gets 6% of its revenue from excise taxes. Do politicians really expect us to believe they cannot cut HALF of that over four years? That they cannot tighten their belts by a mere 3%? Over FOUR years?! Plueze.

LilMikey,

I agree, they can't show us where that will happen. The problem is it will make more of these politicians accountable for there actions and votes, they do not like that. If there is something they REALLY want to spend money on, they will have to come infront of the people of Maine and EXPLAIN why the want this money. This will help us with our votes the next election. Politicians do NOT like to be pinned down.

YES on 4 !!!

What we all need to realize is that WE the people put our ELECTED officals in office, Face the music folks if you don't like how your respresentative is performing in Augusta then VOTE them out! Pretty simple if you ask me. TABOR II take away our local control pure and simple. It circumvents the way our town selectman can act all the way up to our representatives in Augusta. why then have elections for people to act on our behalf why not just have weekly votes at the town office and decide our own future, TABOR makes no sense. when passed in Colorado they were in great shape finacialy and then TABOR came in and knocked the bottom out of Goverment. Oh sure spending was cut, but at what cost--- Healthcare, education, and jobs- healthcare for one was huge, health care costs grew faster than the "spending cap" allowed and before things could go to referendum people, nurses, and cnas had been cut, and home health services slashed, and immunizations for kids before school were laxed because of cost. Don't believe me check it out google tabor in Colorado see what you find. Education cost rose as well, sports programs were slashed, and parents had to buy out of pocket school supplies for there kids class rooms because of lack of funds, oh and bundle up too, because schools could not afford heating costs so they kept heat low in the 50s-60s to maintain budget gotta love those "spending caps" We know that Colorado dropped to 47th in the nation for Education, lets not let that happen here!

The last straw for the Gov there was when he looking at closing the state room community colleges because of the "spending caps" and budget cuts. so good by EMCC, SMCC, KVCC, and NMCC. I ask how many of our local trademens, and women got there training at one of these schools???? But hey TABOR is great for Maine!!! yeah right take your TABOR and cram it! it will hurt us badly and we WILL see cuts, and losses in jobs. we know there is issues in Augusta with spending, I am not doubting that however TABOR is not the right way to got about it. If we don't like what we see change it run for office if you can do better or vote someone in that can.

VOTE NO ON QUESTION 4 !!!!!!! save what little dignity we have left!!!!!

I think that most of the talk about losing town services like police may be related to the excise tax cut issue, but I could be wrong.

Just like any program started and run by the government, TABOR can have far reaching consequences that we have not forseen. There is no provision to fix or undo the policy if it really does not work the way the people had hoped. For instance, if any unforseen expense arises, the state would have to wait up to a year for the voters to decide on it. It is just very black and white spending limits in a very grey world.

If there are cuts to education, police, fire, and roads after TABOR is passed it will be becuase politicians want to punish the people for actually daring to put an end to the government waste. While you're voting for TABOR make sure that you also vote for fiscally responsible politicians.

Vote Yes on Question 4. For a stronger Maine.

Vote YES on 4!!!

Do not be fooled by these doom and gloom posts. It is not neccessarily our elected representatives fault, much of it has to do with the way many governments are formed and run. Colorado had some early learning experiences, so what, many in that State like TABOR! We are not falling for the spouting off that WE elcected the officials so it is really our problem. Sometimes it is choose your poison, it is difficult to change that. We are now taking spending into the citizens hands, at the same time sending a message to our Government. We may hit some speed bumps people, but nothing we cannot overcome.

Send a message this election day, even if this is not perfect, we have had ENOUGH!! YES on 4.

Don't forget the last time our government had a scare, they promised they listened and would change, TABOR did not pass, nothing has changed!!

Yes on 4!!

If looks like YES will win this one by a large margin, congadulation to the people of MAINE.

"Colorado has suspended TABOR because of the disasterous effects it caused to public services."

Imagine no more paying for methodoe treatments...

Taxi cost to get the druggie to his methodone treatment...

Immunizations for drunks and druggies who don't work...

But yeah your probably right. They will choose not to fix the roads before they will cut some of these programs.

Here is a good one from Bangor that could go so that they could fix pot holes.

Sexually Transmitted Disease Clinic

The Sexually Transmitted Disease (STD) Division is responsible for the promotion of the health and well being of Maine people through the prevention and control of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV. Clinical services allow for the diagnosis, treatment and management of STDs. Community educational presentations about STD prevention.

Up to 75% of people with STDs have NO signs or symptoms. If you think you may have put yourself at risk, you need to be tested and treated.

Clinical Services – Clinical services offered include confidential, comprehensive medical checkups and treatments for sexually transmitted diseases, assistance in getting sexual partners of infected persons tested and treated, and information and counseling regarding STDs.

Clinical services are provided on a walk-in basis on Regular office hours are Monday-Friday(8:00am-4:30pm), Walk-In clinics are open Wednesday evenings(4:30pm-7:30pm). Counseling, consultation, and education are available weekdays (during office hours, 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.) by appointment. HIV Ab counseling and testing is done by appointment only. Appointments are available during office hours and on Wednesday evenings. The cost of attending the clinic is $50.00. Some testing may require an additional charge. Medication may be included in the initial price of the clinic visit. We also accept Medicaid. No client is refused services due to inability to pay.

For further information call 992-4555 or 947-0700.

How much does this cost a year?

A clinical assistant makes over 16 an hour there.

http://www.bangormaine.gov/cs_healthservices.php#stdc

Why in the world would we choose this over Roads?

http://www.bangorparksandrec.com/info/activities/

So many things could be sold outright to business and the City would not need to pay employees or upkeep any more

http://www.bangormaine.gov/cs_civiccenter.php

Why is the City trying to run 1/4 of the businesses in this town?

If the above is what one City is doing with our money instead of taking care of the infrastructure of the city what is the State doing with out money?

Wow!

I got a shocker and I never made it off the first page of agencies.

Someone gets paid to license barbers and cosmotolgy establishments!

http://www.maine.gov/pfr/professionallicensing/professions/barbers/index.htm

We couldn't maybe combine that up with something else?

Also why do these people need the State licensing them?

Are bad haircuts now that big an issue and if I don't have a licens and I cut someones hair do they have barber police too?

If Bad haircuts were that big a deal everyone in walmart would be doing hard time right now!

This is what they choose to spend money on instead of fixing roads?

Politicians have promised for years that they will so something about the taxes in Maine. What have they done? They have increased the amount of taxes we pay! Send a message to them to stop spending more than wht they have. Vote Yes on TABOR!

Live in Colorado but spend as much timea s possible in Maine. HAve suffered through TABOR in Colorado for years. Even GOP here now despeartely trying to unwind it as it's ruinous to the economy.

Want TABOR? Get this:

Privatization pondered for CSU

10/20/2009 06:44 AM MDT - As state funding cuts loom in 2011, leaders of the Colorado State University system have started considering an option unheard of in all but a handful of states: converting to a part-public, part-private structure in which students pay more for costlier degrees.

So a western state with a vastly different demographic and tax base can't prove TABOR helped them, so giving more to our already out-of-control state government is automatically a good idea? I've fed Augusta very well, and it's gotten obese and lethargic, and it is hungrier than ever. Time for a diet.

Maine the Potato State is going to be Tabor State!!!! Egual Rights to the Citizens of Maine. About Time!!

A Toast To You All!!!

Thanks (:

Openspace....Sounds like a great idea. You know you get what you pay for . You want it you pay for it.

Another Great Reason to support the Tabor State.

We can watch how that works and jump on board later.

Want TABOR? Get this:

Privatization pondered for CSU

10/20/2009 06:44 AM MDT - As state funding cuts loom in 2011, leaders of the Colorado State University system have started considering an option unheard of in all but a handful of states: converting to a part-public, part-private structure in which students pay more for costlier degrees.

Good idea too!

Why are we paying so much money for the UM system?

Those who goes to college pays for college.

If you and your children aren't going to college why should you pay for me and mine?

Per previous repsonses to my note, no, I won't like TABOR and the rest of us (most at least, other than the rabid minority) won't either. Good to see some of the responses, some first hand, illustrating what TABOR has done (detrimentally) to CO. Sure, you can get a favorable response from a pro-TABOR CO legislator (hmmm, what's his gain? Easy street with no tough decisions?). In contrast I've been talking to friends and neighbors, long time residents in CO. They are conservative, especially fiscally, and they deplore TABOR, especially what it's done to the schools. Check out the anti-TABOR radio ads, they're even more damning of TABOR than the TV ads.

Most of the support for TABOR I've seen here and elsewhere seems too simplistic, more ideological than factual or economically reliable. Interesting that even Republicans in CO want to suspend their TABOR (hint, hint). Do I trust Maine voters? Not all of them, that's for sure. Think you're seeing special interests? Post-TABOR will breed new ones, and they're named 'me" (only, and the heck with you). As one responder pointed out, it would take too long (up to a year) and be too expensive (or are you pro-TABOR types going to bear ALL of the costs of the extra elections?) to respond to emergencies. Heaven help us if we get another 1998-type ice storm with TABOR in place.

How have you been responding to your existing lesgislators and senators? Somebody voted them in. If they aren't from your party (and this does seem to be a party issue, ideologically), you're obviously in the minority in your district. And, if you're in the minority, why should I trust your policies?

NOT (No on TABOR)

In the process of posting my first note (literally, last night), I see I've been tumbed down. That's OK (at least I was civil, was that worth tumbing down?) so I'll annoy you anti's and repeat it (at least eagle1 acknowledged it so it would live on anyway; thanks eagle1, that was sporting of you).

I think that TABOR opponents make a better case. They seem to have better data and informtion, including on TABOR's track record in Colorado.

NOT (No On TABOR).

Gopher,

Our first clue on which way to vote is where you say "I think...."

Yes on 4

This is going to pass by a huge margin, everyone (accept Gopher) is fed up!

"they're named 'me" (only, and the heck with you)"

Amazing how many people think they have the right to use my money for whatever they choose.

Why should you get to choose to spend my money on things I don't need?

I'm not going to college why should I pay your way?

I'm not a junkie why should I pay for their drugs and transportation.

I keep hearing from you folks about Republicans in CO who don't want TABOR. I see one or two calling themselves repubs but not a big uprising as you claim.

Starve the beast!

What's interesting about the Heritage report is that it lumps 3 VERY distinct periods into one.

In Colorado in the 90's, federal and military investment and a high level of education caused population and per-capita personal income to boom. This was going on long before TABOR appeared and had nothing to do with it. Because population was rising so fast, the TABOR formula (remember: population+inflation) didn't come into effective play, leaving the state functionally free of restriction. Meanwhile, Maine's lower growth of personal income had to do with lacking Colorado's advantages and nothing to do with lacking TABOR.

Then the recession of 2000-1 hit, the population boom slowed, and TABOR took hold with a vengeance. The formula bases each year on the previous year (and inflation+population), so when state revenues and pop growth plummeted, they ratcheted down the next year's revenues, and when the recession ended, with no population boom to boost the formula, the state couldn't pull out of it easily. THAT's when things went south in Colorado. With infrastructure going to pot (think Maine in 2009) and higher and lower education in serious financial trouble (these are the stories opponents of TABOR describe and Heritage ignores), the business community finally saw clearly that TABOR's effect on these pillars of business climate was truly dangerous to them. At that point, they started fighting it, and in 2005 they and the public got it suspended for 5 years.

After that, things began to improve in Colorado.

So if you just cite statistics for the whole period, as Heritage is doing, things look pretty good. But when you look at what REALLY happened...

Here's the ratio of Colorado's per-capita personal income growth to Maine's for these three periods:

1992-2000 1.30 (no effective TABOR -- Colorado doing great)

2000-2005 0.70 (TABOR -- Colorado falls way behind)

2005-2008 0.85 (no TABOR -- Colorado still behind, but at least beginning to come back)

What does this actually tell you about the effect of TABOR (when it's "working") on the growth of personal income? By combining all three periods into one, and hiding the fact that TABOR wasn't actually affecting things during most of that period, the Heritage folks have completely pulled the wool over the eyes of anyone who takes them at face value.

If we adopt TABOR, particularly in the middle of a recession, we are screwed.

rofl harley07....I been complaining about that since they shut them down. lol!

Remember "Nothing changes IF nothing changes," but TABOR gives 'We The People' a chance to start fixing our current Maine mess. If you take an honest look at today's economic and governmental situations for Maine, unless you are part of the problem (i.e., work for tax dollars), you will see we are heading in a very bad direction... especially for the kids following behind us. If we don't act now and start solving our SPENDING PROBLEMS, it will get a LOT worse for our kids!

Is this really what you want for your children and grand children? Are you prepared to get off the couch and help institute some positive changes? 'We The People' have certain rights and a voice in how this state and country are to be run. IMO, it's time to stop the current downward slide toward socialism and here are a few things we can do about it over the next year:

1. Get active in the politics which shape our USA;

2. Vote YES on Q.2! (lowers the Excise Tax)

3. Vote YES on Q.4! (TABOR NOW to reduce governmental power in Maine)

4. Defeat the so-called “tax reform” by Maine’s liberal democrats, LD 1495, http://www.stillfedupwithtaxes.net;

5. Keep a close eye on all of the wasteful spending within Maine State Government, http://www.maineopengov.org;

6. Get active with a growing grassroots effort in Maine to “Reduce our state and local tax burden and promote prudent government spending,” http://www.mainetaxpayers.com;

7. Read our Constitution of the United States of America, http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html;

8. Keep a close eye on what Far Left pro-socialism groups like ACORN and SEIU are doing, http://www.acorn.org and http://www.seiu.org;

9. Elect a new Governor for Maine who knows how to run a business with a limited budget (i.e., Mayor Paul LePage from Waterville);

10. GET ACTIVE and know that your voice really does count!

*** YES on Q.2 & YES on Q.4! ***

Yes

With the fact that Maine truly has 2 completely different Maines. The solution to many of the issues may be in the cession of Northern Maine, from Southern Maine. This could allow the individual states to form their own laws custom tailored to their own unique electorate. Then Northern Maine could legislate to bring in more business, therefore, creating jobs without the over weighted vote influence of the wealthier Southern Maine to the contrary. Further, Southern Maine could be rid of its “poor relatives”, and be rid of the burden of having to only need the north for their exclusive “backyard playground” and with their exclusive” indentured staff”.

Augusta has "NO" credibility

flyfishing,sounds like you can hit a nail on the head.