High taxes, big spending and big government are alive and well in Baldacciland.

Me and everyone that I know has to balance our home budgets, we plan for the unplannable, scrimp and save and hope as well. The state does not need to do this but that is OK. I love spending more money for things we don't need or cannot afford. I LOVE PAYING TAXES.

"

I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are more lazy a** sacks of s**t living in Maine who are at the state and/or federal pig trough than there are people who actually work and pay taxes. That is the only explanation for how this went down. All the losers on welfare, Mainecare, etc., etc., most have rallied their useless butts off the couch to go vote.

All of the working tax payers left the state many years ago. Maine is a welfare state forever now, and you CAN"T go back. When the majority work for the government or receive welfare checks..... That is a permanent state of life. So quit working , develop a "bad back" , get on disability, and join them. Washington DC will bail you out with some chump change, just for your 2 senate votes.

Two H.L. Mencken quotes are appropriate:

"Democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance"

"Democracy is a religion, it's the worship of jackals by jackaxxes"

We have a lot of happy taxpayers in our state. It looks like they will keep going up since nobody minds.

errrr 60% don't mind

Sometimes it is necessary to forego self interest for the good of those less fortunate. If Question 2 had passed it would have been of significant benefit to me BUT at what cost to my less fortunate fellow citizens? I voted against Question 2.

I voted in favor of Question 4 more as an expression of outrage than anything else. It seems like the answer to many of our financial challenges can be found in TERM LIMITS. Public office should not be a career at the trough of tax money garnered by the broken backs of the working poor.

a shame that the people of this state want to keep paying more and more what happens when every one that works moves out,

3:08 AM, Taxpayer;

You are exactly correct.

It is a shame that the majority of the people did not have the courage to snatch our state away from the liberal tax sucking politicians, and stand on their own two feet for a change.

Apparently our work is not done yet.

6:15 AM, freewill;

"Sometimes it is necessary to forego self interest for the good of those less fortunate"

Forego self interest? We are forced to support these less fortunates, and lazy, that you refer to BEFORE we are even allowed to take care of our own families. The government seizes what they want from what you earn, and use it as they see fit. You may care for your family with what they leave you. They also practice redistribution of wealth by seizing tax money that should have been returned to you, and giving to people who didn't even pay any taxes, or very little. They do this with the "earned income tax credit". For instance..there are people who may have paid $400 in taxes and get $750 back when they file their taxes, or they may have paid nothing. This money comes from us, the working middle class. We take second jobs to heat our homes in the winter, while we have to heat other people's home who sit on their butt, FIRST.

I have no problem caring for our elderly, I do have a problem paying cab fare for useless bums to go get their methadone fix on my nickel.

Freewill: The working poor get back far far more than they pay in taxes. does EIC ring a bell? I remember having many minimum wage jobs early on.

WTF, I wasn't referring to the EIC I was addressing the excise tax referendum question. Like you, I am opposed to the funding of methadone clinics because I feel that methadone substitutes one drug for another; however, that wasn't the issue I was responding to either. The excise tax question if it had passed would have been of benefit to me personally but it would have hurt some of my neighbors so I defend my original statement: Sometimes it is necessary to forego self interest for the good of those less fortunate.

freewill, sorry about that, it has been a long night at work. almost over though.

michaelmacarthur, Apology accepted. I appreciate your position. We are all sick and tired of government run amok when we work our tails off with nothing to show for it but a lot of worry and politicians constantly in our wallets!

while funding methadone clinics seems to you like substituting one drug for another (and it is), the reality of opiate addiction, and drug addiction in general, is that its less costly to socity to provide addicts with drugs until THEY are aready to get off of them, and to minimize the damage to their health to the extent achievable. Addicts (except for methamphetamine addicts) do not generally commit real crimes (property crimes, gun violence) unless they are in particular need of money to feed their addiction. This is a product of prohibition in general, not of the drug itself. The crime caused by the black market, which makes up the bulk of "drug-related" crime, here and globally, is also a direct product of the prohibition of drugs. Funding the massive police and judicial efforts behind prohibition is a far greater cost than providing drugs, and the thousands of innocent victims of drug gangs and smugglers are far worse than a couple of junkies overdosing in my opinion (although this is largly a product of prohibition of drugs as well). This is the most economically effective method of addressing opiate addiction at the present moment. If you guys want to stop funding the methadone clinics, go right ahead, it would serve to prove my point...but at least wait to do it until I've moved out of Maine...

If you got rid of the excise tax , they would tax it somewhere else.

The earned income credit actually offsets the regressive payroll taxes, a large percentage of which goes to pay for Medicare. If you get an earned income credit, you paid payroll taxes. For a single person to qualify, they had to have earned less than 13, 000 dollars, but they paid payroll taxes on that money. In addition to payroll taxes, EITC recipients still pay state taxes and sales taxes, so the idea that there are vast numbers of poor Americans getting tax handouts is quite incorrect. Also, you have to proactively apply for the EITC and many people who are entitled to it don't do that.

Although the wealthy and the affluent like to wallow in their self-pity and suffering, they get plenty of handouts from the government. The real "redistribution" as you like to call it comes in the preferential tax treatment of employer-provided health insurance. Everyone who is self-employed or freelances pay taxes on their health insurance (if they have it; many don't). Those who work for large companies (many of whom are non-union, BTW) get a free ride. Those who are highly-paid executives, many of whom could absolutely afford the costs of their health insurance without having to give up their private plane or yacht, get an even freer ride. Their health insurance covers everything and they get it tax free. Property taxes, which were originally enacted to tax the rich, since they owned the property, are inherently regressive. If you're making 250,000 a year, that 8,000 in property taxes is a drop in the bucket, hardly noticeable. If you're making 25, 000 a year, that same 8,000 is a third of your income.

Furthermore, the Federal government used to pay for more for towns and cities, so middle-class people noticed the tax less. When Federal taxes were lowered, the costs of programs were "devolved" to the states and then to the municipalities. The taxes were cut to stimulate job growth, but the job growth took place in nonindustrialized countries, which lined the pockets of Sam Walton's children, but didn't do much for the folks here. The poor are not Maine's or America's biggest problem, but they make a convenient target.

6:43 AM, freewill;

My apologies freewill, I didn't understand your point, thank you for the clarification.

Although, I was also of the opinion that if we passed Tabor AND the excise tax question, they would have had to ask us before they could have raised any taxes, property or otherwise.

I do understand your point though.

Yes, TABOR has lost again... but would we have the same result if the Far Left liberal organizations from away didn't donate so much for advertising (versus the 12:1 difference)?

What if they didn't use so many lies and scare tactics in their ads?

What if groups like the Maine Municipal Association and local city/town governments didn't spend so many of our own tax dollars on this political campaign?

Although we have lost this battle against an array of crooked politicians and their union/association buddies, this war is far from over. God bless the Maine taxpayers, because we're really in trouble now.

If you're not happy with the results of this election, please get active and help implement positive change... visit www.MaineTaxpayers.com.

Joshua, I have had more personal experience than you can imagine with narcotics addicts. Some of the people I love most in the world have died or been damaged beyond repair from narcotics addiction.

"Addicts (except for methamphetamine addicts) do not generally commit real crimes (property crimes, gun violence) unless they are in particular need of money to feed their addiction." The addicts I have encountered have all committed "real crimes". Additionally, those same addicts have been recreational methadone users. Beyond that is the collateral damage done to innocent citizens in the wake of addiction. Relatives, co-workers, employers, friends and neighbors are all forced to walk a path they would never have chosen if not for the addict.

This is not the issue, the issue is the vote and where our money goes without our express consent.

The political hacks win again and Maine people bought into another sham. the state ramps up spending and cannot sustain anything...more reason for young people to leave Maine...

WTF266, Apology accepted. We're all frustrated by the same things.

On 11/4/09 at 7:07 AM, Telefunkinu47 wrote: If you got rid of the excise tax , they would tax it somewhere else.

Tele, no insult to you but isn't this indicative of the attitude of the defeated tax payer? "They're going to get it somewhere, somehow". Government has gotten too big, and the State has become too dependant. Bonds pass without a sweat. Tabor loses yet again. Why don't we just let the Government dole out an allowance to us all and then it will all be equal! ARRRRRRGH!!!

Question #2, as written, would have created yet another special class of people – those who wanted to drive a hybrid. Social experimentation is not what the laws or taxation should be about. Had this referendum simply asked if we wanted to eliminate the excise tax (and I would have also included elimination of annual vehicle inspections at the same time) I think it would have passed. Everyone would have understood that the revenue would be made up in property tax and one level of taxation, along with all the paperwork involved would have disappeared. I'd like to see that law enacted.

Question #4 would seem to add additional expense to local municipalities, in the form of yet another ratifying referendum vote following Town Meeting. Seems to me that once the voters have spent the day in open discussion and decided to raise or appropriate funds for local issues they should not then have to spend more money for a referendum to say it’s ok to do what we just did.

So, had Tabor not included the local level it too may have passed.

Thank goodness 60% of Mainers saw through the futility of refs 2 and 4. Lets all work for truly wise choices in governmental spending and taxation (believe it or not, it's going on now).

Ok, if we believe that an excise tax reduction is going to be so detrimental to towns and cities, that's one thing. But to shoot down a proposal to not give elected officials carte blanche to raise taxes and spend spend spend is just crazy! Someone made the comment about taking power away from the people we elect. Yes, they are supposed to act in our best interest, but they do not always do that, nor do we have the best of the best in public office. Don't get me wrong, some of the officials are very smart, but others, not so much.

I have seen the other comments listed, and I believe it comes down to this - if we have to balance our personal checkbooks, shouldn't our local and state government? It is an easy out to not have to get creative with billpaying, and just raise taxes. How about spending cuts for a change, rather than spending increasing and passing the burden onto our taxpayers?

When you mix religion with politics, damnable outcomes are asured. It was question #1 that brought out the vote that defeated TABOR. You get the government you deserve. Until the religious zealots are purged from the leadership of the republican party, rational citizens will migrate to be independents and libertarians.

How about we'll purge our right-wing zealots if you purge your left-wing zealots? Seems a fair trade...

I have always contended that Mainer's liked high taxes. They live next door to the only State in the union with neither a sales nor income tax and government continually tells us they need more more more, even with a sales and income tax and all the other taxes New Hampshire has. The public majority passes ANY bond issue with the word "transportation" included, I assume they believe this means roads. Read the bond issue, not just the summary and you see we're subsidizing airports, sea ports, southern Maine rails and so forth.

The next politicial who comes down here looking for my vote better be able to answer some hard questions.

Oh my god, obviously the entire state is living off the entire system to allow for increased taxes, the people of maine just voted in the ability to keep being taxed and let Augusta go out of control. I can't believe it. All I know is that I am glad I have recently moved out of state. Good luck to you all, and ugh, I just don't even know what to say.

On 11/4/09 at 6:15 AM, freewill wrote:

I voted in favor of Question 4 more as an expression of outrage than anything else. It seems like the answer to many of our financial challenges can be found in TERM LIMITS. Public office should not be a career at the trough of tax money garnered by the broken backs of the working poor.

=======================================

I'm not picking on you, sir, but....

the only thing I'd like to point out about the dissadvantage of impossing term limits is that if it had been enacted in the past we wouldn't have had the benefit, (and pleasure), of Mr. Bill Cohen, Margaret Chase Smith, George Mitchell, Olympia Snowe, etc., AND they'd likely not be in the productive state that we know them as being today. They've been, (overall), wonderful "carreer" people to the benefit of Mainers and our country.

On the other hand, we get rid of "lame duck", bonehead Baldacci next time around because he can't run again. (TERM LIMITS,...Yee haa!).

You'd be surprised at the number of people who think he's going to run again! I heard he's going back to be a dishwasher in his Momma's restaurant in Bangor.

I have always contended that Mainer's liked high taxes. They live next door to the only State in the union with neither a sales nor income tax and government continually tells us they need more more more, even with a sales and income tax and all the other taxes New Hampshire has. The public majority passes ANY bond issue with the word "transportation" included, I assume they believe this means roads. Read the bond issue, not just the summary and you see we're subsidizing airports, sea ports, southern Maine rails and so forth.

The next politicial who comes down here looking for my vote better be able to answer some hard questions.

Ms. Canney, supporters of TABOR do not reject support of "education and communities" as you claim. We are their strongest supporters. We're just tired of our money being wated on things that don't directly educate our children or improve our community.

More taxes and more debt!

The keys to success in Maine for the last 30 years.

Look how well it is working.

franco34, I doubt very much that if someone's anual income is 25,000 yearly, they would own enough property to be paying 8 grand a year in property taxes

Wow I truly am glad I moved out of Maine. I have never lived in an area that seemed to enjoy paying higher taxes and fees than Maine. You have it all, excise tax, sales tax, state income tax, high property taxes. More little fees for everything else. And you all seem to want to keep paying more.

There is no doubt that Mainers lost an opportunity to send a clear message to Augusta when they voted down TABOR II. I believe that this vote indicates that a majority of Maine residents either directly benefits from our entitlement system or indirectly benefits through entitlements that support family members. Also, those who work or have children enrolled in public schools had a stake in the TABOR defeat.

It marks the beginning of the end of this once great state when more people draw from our system of government than contrbute to it. People are inherently selfish, and such selfishness ultimately contrbutes to our collective failure.

By the way, franco34, you have your facts wrong. It is quite possible and in fact routine for people to make far more money through EITC benefits than what they pay in taxes.

"I voted in favor of Question 4 more as an expression of outrage" This is a honest statement by freewill. Question 4 rationally was a disaster. It was a disaster in California and in Colorado. It would have been a worse disaster here because of the recession. No rational reason existed to vote for 4. And freewill is riht the 40% who voted for it did so in an emotional temper tantrum. But freewill in wrong on term limits. All term limits accomplishes is to place the lobbyists and the bureaucrats in charge, the representatives of the people have too little experience to move the agenda. Term Limits should be extended.

After we defeat the republics peole's veto of LD 1495 and implement tax reform. We need to go back with tax cuts to the lowest 20% of Maie's wage earners who now pay TWICE the tax burden of the remaining 80%.

3 strikes your out! Chicago Boy / Milton Friedmanites go home!

Good I was worried I would have some rights - thank you people of Maine - I can continue to scrap to get by - "Maine the way life should be"

The only people that would have benefited from this were the people that DIDN'T own property. Renters buying new cars..