Urban, rural divide defines differing views on marriage

a very interesting video..to the people of Maine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWrhm_H1dAw

I am proud of those areas of the state (including Bangor) where more people voted NO on 1 to extend more securities and protections to other Maine families, including many with children.

Wow...this article states that , on Wednesday, there was talk of a possible "constitutional amendment in Maine" to define marriage as a union between one man and one woman. Interesting..............

JD: If you read this.....you seem to know about these things. If such an Amendment passed in Maine (and that is a big if), what would happen if the Supreme Court of the U.S. made same sex marriage legal nationwide.....would that supersede the amendment to Maine's constitution?!

Excellent video DA. Thanks for sharing the link.

Five to ten years for voters to come around, if the courts don't do the right thing first.

rednecks...sad

Guess I know why I never liked Eddie Murphy...and I never saw his "fag" routine until now. Love the way he does that little sign of the cross on his chest before going on stage and trashing gay people. It somehow fits.

Once again, our legislators have demonstrated that they do not represent the citizens who put them in office. Rather, they continue to cater to special interests groups, lobbyists, and their own personal agendas which they place above the will of the very people they represent. Once again, the citizens of Maine have to correct this misrepresentation. Personally, this is becoming so frustrating that I truly believe that we need to throw out the entire lot of them and put those who understand that the will of the people has precedence. It is insulting to continually correct Augusta's out-of-touch, arrogant, elitist.

MayorMchees: Redneck is a southern term... get it right!

"Five to ten years for voters to come around, if the courts don't do the right thing first."

If the voters choose to take that course of action, that's fine. It's the choice they made as voters and citizens. If we have some more legislation from the bench, that'll be a further push towards the reckoning that is coming for those who seek to deprive the citizens of their rights and freedoms. Aside from a radically smaller federal government, we need definite terms for justices and a system of accountability to prevent members of the elite from imposing their worldview on the bulk of the citizenry.

Jeff B.

cher...the U.S. Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. Maine could pass a law making it illegal for woman to vote in state and local elections. The 19th Amendment trumps the Maine Constitution.

"The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

The issue would be obtaining 2/3 of the states to ratify the Amendment to the Constitution.

I still feel that the way to same sex marriage across the United States will be through the Equal Protection Clause (14th Amendment). Same sex marriage is legal in some states and not in others.

It's a sad day for Maine. My family/6 people spend a lot of money there; skiing, summers...I can easily go to VT/NH, Canada or Europe. The economy has so little going for it now, i wonder how it will fare with the loss of tourism dollars and union convention business. I never thought the independent people of Maine would allow this to happen. They did. Now they must live with their choice.

JD: Thanks. I think you are right. I just thought it was "strange" that the YES on 1 folks are already talking about that amendment ( I don't know how much or how seriously though) after they speak of being in favor of civil unions and one of their main people (not Mutty, I don't think) said today that they wanted to work together, or something like that. It just does not come across as very honest, if you know what I mean.

djknight1: There is an actor with your username, isn't there?? (Grey's Anatomy.)....or something close. I wish you would want to ski,etc in Maine. Many folks in Maine would welcome you. That poster at 10:31 does not speak for a lot of people in Maine!

djknight1: No, excuse me....it is something close to that, but not dj....sorry. Anyway, don't stop coming to Maine. It is AJ Knight , I think. Oh well, doesn't matter, and I don't even watch that show...and that actor has left it anyway.

Reconsider skiing in Maine sometime......remember all the folks here who did not want the repeal.

Looking at that map, it's good to see that Maine is a such a GREEN state! I'm proud that rural Mainers at least still have enough common sense to know that it's just wrong for men to marry men or women to marry women. Also interesting to note that most of the bright pink (strongly NO voters) are areas like Camden or Islesboro or North Haven or Blue Hill or Mount Desert that are just loaded with elitist, rich transplants. Where REAL Mainers live, the vote was strongly YES!

POWER PLAY

I don't recall having voted for either Marc Mutty or Bishop Malone. Yet they caused a referendum question to be put on the ballot thus permitting "mob rule" (People's veto) to override the judgment of the Maine Legislature and Governor. Having voted for the governor and legislators representing my district, I feel disenfranchised. (deprived of the power of representation) Something is not right with that.

We have voted on this one too many times in the State of Maine - enough already!!!

According to previous elections, (google search "obama margin of victory") a 6% win is a "historic blowout victory," "resounding," and "a big win."

Thank God and thank the people of Maine for preserving the definition of marriage by such an overwhelming majority!!

Our govenor and legislators work for us. They are there to do the will of the people. The people have voted. This is not a dictatorship.

Interesting results there for Stockholm and New Sweden. Atypical for the County -- only "Yes", not "Strongly Yes". Must be that Mother Earth News demographic.

Presque Isle and Fort Kent: University towns, "Strongly Yes". C'mon now; no punitive budget cuts. These are very small campuses. The kids are outnumbered by the townies.

That blank area covering half the state? Those results will come in by dogsled around Thanksgiving.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/external/Question1/Vote2009GraphicFINAL.pdf

The Yes on One campaign needs to take the fight to the enemy. If we do not end this game once and for all it will just keep coming up for a vote. We need to define marriage in our Constitution. It's sad that the losers can't accept the defeat and go away quietly, we have to crush them once and for all to put the issue to rest.

Legislative focus, I pray, will be on education in the remote snow-English tribal areas.

Although I can't claim to know exactly the geographical demographics of the gay population in Maine, my guess is that the highest concentration would be in the Portland area. Interesting then that Portland voted 73.5% to maintain gay marriage. Goes to show you that when you are around and get to know people different from you, they aren't nearly as scary or threatening.

The unfortunate part is, I think you could see a lot of gay couples start to move out of state, especially when they can be legally recognized by just moving across the border to New Hampshire (in fact including Canada, Maine is bordered on all sides by jurisdictions recognizing gay marriage). They will take with them their productivity and creativity. I think the places that have the most to lose from that are places like Portland, Bangor, and Orono, places that voted overwhelmingly to maintain gay marriage.

medstudent: Excellent "analysis". It is true that many people are afraid of what they do not really know. I would much rather live amongst open-minded , accepting people than those that are not. I am glad to say I live in a city in Maine which voted NO on 1 in the majority.

re 11:04.....oh boy....aren't you the tough guy!! NOT......... "crush them once and for all"......oh, such tough talk...... you exempilfy what a lot of us would not want to be like at all.

medstudent,

Your feelings would be true enough , and come to pass, but for the passion everyone has for their home(land).

awesome videos on why this stuff didn't get my vote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcKJEHrvwDI&feature=related start at 2:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmxxF5aESIc&feature=related pretty funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1vbMiGBj3c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CUTIrdiV0w a must see

Certainly hope you're right Ridgeman!

awesome videos on why this stuff didn't get my vote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcKJEHrvwDI&feature=related

start at 2:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmxxF5aESIc&feature=related

pretty funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CUTIrdiV0w

a must see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1vbMiGBj3c&feature=related

floridamainer....how bout bible bumping uneducated hicks? Because it is apparent that is who voted for this.....religion had its chance...it was called the dark ages

Let's hope that the Gay/Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender community utilizes the scientific approach, to educate the sector of public who does not understand and in many instances refuses to understand, why the G/L/B/T are who they are. Just because these folks don't fit into the box the heterosexual community wants them to fit into, doesn't mean they should be excluded from certain rights.

AIONCA

awful quiet today buddy.

Marriage has been and always will be between a man and a women. I will always do what's right and do anything I can to prevent the destruction of marriage in Maine. Homo's marrying is a slap in gods face.

I hate to break it to you, but marriage has been destructing for quite a while now. Maybe Stand for Marriage should work on repealing divorces?

Ridgeman: Education. So for you, it really *was* about about indoctrinating my children. But I won't generalize from that observation.

Education is a funny thing. My ex-wife studied sociology at Bryn Mawr College. She took the Hippocratic Oath at the University of Chicago. Now she dismembers babies for a living in Arizona. Doing her part to advance the cause of human rights, one small limb at a time. But she's for gay rights, so she's a good person.

The amazing thing is that at a global scale these little operations add up to the single leading cause of human death. Cross-compare the reports of the World Health Organization and the Alan Guttmacher Institute for details.

My atheist Pop really beat me up about that divorce. He was right, and as a professor of English, he chose the right word: ex-e-cra-ble.

Gay marriage never was in his mill-town vocabulary. Not in francophone Waterville, not at Harvard.

Death to stereotypes. Peace to you.

YES_ON_1 wrote:

"AIONCA awful quiet today buddy."

As you are indeed well aware, I have posted comments elsewhere today.

This article is a very revealing one, though. It supports the assertion that when you actually meet and speak to gay people and interact with same-sex couples, you realize that they are not what they are represented to be by those who seek to malign them and deprive them and their families of their constitutional rights.

And that assertions that they somehow "choose" their sexuality run contrary to most of their experiences.

But you already have heard this; as your agenda is redundant and clear.

47.19 % in favor of equality this time is much too close to claim any kind of an overwhelming victory for those who think that they can prevent my, and other people's churches from choosing to wed people that are devoted to one-another and in love. And next time I doubt the opposition will be able to so successfully conceal all the Mormon money, or their true motivations, from the public.

foobar, I was just in Waterville last month. Nice people there. I wasn't surprised to see that they came out in favor of equality for all Mainer's.

tanker99: I think it's interesting that you use videos of drag queens to support you bias. I find it kind of creepy that you watch them. I guess it kind of explains why you are so passionate about your stand.

what boycott the state because of how it voted... How petty. Everyone has rights. It was voted on. A close vote but don't act like spoiled brats everyone. There are more pressing issues going on than this. Come on look through the forest see some light. No one is ever truly happy. The outcome came now lets put our differences behind look to the future. I just don't get it. All the emotion about the vote, when there are children and you adults dying from H1N1. That is something to get upset about. Put a ring on smile and wave no one really cares. It's amazing how something like this can stirr so much emotion. This is a waste of alot of good peoples time and energy.

Boycotting the state makes little sense, especially when a very close to majority voted to support people's equality.

But I have to wonder what you mean by "everyone has rights" and "no one is ever truly happy"

That's bull crap. As for H1N1, a few hundred people dying of it out of what, over 1/4 billion ?

As for not comprehending the emotion involved, I guess that speaks to your lack of ability to understand what real discrimination is all about.

Most straight white guys like us have never experienced anything even remotely comparable to what gay people have had to deal with.

But hey, don't talk to them, don't try to understand what it is they know first hand. Go ahead and live your own little delusion.

Everybody isn't like us, you think we've had it hard ? I have to laugh. Some of the things the gay people I've met and spoken to have told me about their lives, their experiences, I doubt most of us could have even survived them. But if it makes it easy for you to pretend everything cool, go for it. But why be surprised when people get a little intense and call you out for being ignorant, when that's exactly what you are ?

FloridaMainer.... Get it correct, Redneck is NOT a southern term. It originated in PA during a coal strike wherein the union men wore a red bandanna around their necks in order to be identified and not shot by their own side. Jeffrey, rural areas of our state, Piscataquis County, Somerset and towns like Cambridge, Dover-Foxcroft Harmony, Greenville etc..... well these areas contain poorly educated people who never even graduate from high school and who are only the second generation to walk upright. What else is to be expected from these block-tooth folks, except the procreation with you cousins. Don't think so? Check out the local towns on the list and see for yourself.

AionCA: Waterville's nice. Not what it used to be. I concede you that victory and wish that you may be happy forever.

Yes on 1,one man and one woman =marriage.The people of Maine have spoken leave it alone and move on!!!!

MAINE VOTERS REBUKED GOVERNOR BALDACCI & THE DEMOCRAT PARTY VOTING YES ON ONE

They lost on the basis of morals.

Plain and simple.

All the other accusations are not valid.

dj knight, maybe if us voting yes on 1, makes you stay away from our state, all because we stand for values, and we hold them high, than hey ,dont let the welcome to maine sign hit you on your butt .

Time to get over it, it's done.

Jazz11, if you have such contempt for recently-evolved humanity, what's the big deal about marriage?

Did you really mean to portray striking coal miners as progenitors of "the bad guys"? Seems sort of ... primitive.

True, there's someone wrong on the internet. That's vexing. Maybe if you were to beat your chest?

10:26 pm . . . no one cares.

the map show's Mainer's where all the 'flat landers' and thier 'out of state' liberal veiws are vacationing....

they need to keep thier liberal views out of Maine and/or go vactaion somewhere else,...... and stay away from my kids....

I will never vote to allow Gay / Lesbian Marriage. Maine along with 47 other states -- let alone the world - denounces this deviate behavior between same sex partners - This issue isn't about EQUALITY - or CIVIL RIGHTS - it's about accepting a sick and infectious sector of the worlds population - 1 in 150 have Autism - What's the number of Gay / Lesbian being born - We have a national crises on our hands - Find a cure for these people -

I went to Vote and the first thing I noticed was there was a lot of older people there voting and only saw a few younger one. I think you need to get some of the younger people in there and it might have passed. But that's the generation. They won't vote until they get older and more responsible.

Note on the term redneck: It actually refers to the "borderers" that England sent from the Scotch-English border to fight the indians. The borderers were notorious fighters, and lived off the land. They had 300 years to perfect their way of life. Sending them to America was a vacation. It is not a specific term that applies in any part of the country. A redneck is a gun carrying, wife loving, father who works very hard to make a meager living. If he is disrespectful of the wealth of others, it is because he works so hard, and earns so little. Stuck in the woods with nothing to eat, and you can give me a redneck friend anyday over a flatland city-slicker who is anti-gun, and anti-freedon, and a nanny state lover. By the way rednecks don't often have a good education, not because they are stupid, but because they spend so much time in their life making enough money just to get by. Read the book, "Deer Hunting with Jesus," if you want to really learn about them.

djknight, stay away from our state. The state of Maine(THE WAY LIFE SHOULD BE)

Thinkaboutit:

You people don't want gays in your community,,, but you should realize that they too are tax payers of Maine that also contribute so your children can attend school,That pay taxes that also contribute to provide assistance to the unwed mothers who keep haveing children by differant fathers that don't pay child support in Maine some in their teens who get help from the state tax money to be able to put a roof over their head,food on their table,medical for them and their children and so on Tax dollars which they have to pay to live in a state that deny them the civil right to marry which is a right that all heterosexual mainers have. Pretty sad that you want them to contribute to pay taxes in this state but don't want them to have the same rights as you,but at the same time they are makeing it possible for the people on the state to be able to survive. I feel if they pay taxes in this state then they should have the same rights as all other mainers...

Thank-you CHARETTE for your comment - It is good to point out that RESPONSIBLE MAINERS voted Responsibly - I too would have hated to see such an important issue decided by the young and less responsible voter..

As a born-and-bred rural Maine citizen, I strongly supported gay marriage. So many people in our (deep green according to your chart) area to whom I have spoken on the subject appeared to have been voting on whether or not homosexual citizens should be "out"... on the "legality" of their love. Shockingly arrogant, as NO ONE gets to vote on such deeply personal matters. The more enlightened views of our youth speak to the dim view history will take of those who would deny fellow citizens the civil right they themselves enjoy.

Well said thinkaboutit. I bet this vote knocked the fire out of a few johnson's. VIVAAAAAAAAA VIAGRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said this would never pass. I'm surprised it was as close as it was. Once again the votes in the rural country areas showed the city dwellers whats right. Thank god. Did anyone ever mention what would happen if this had passed? Sure, gay/lesbian marriage. OK, now think about what would intentionally move to this state from other states and from around the world. This state isn't here for the disposal of folks that move here from away who want to change everything to fit their needs and wants. This state will be preserved by those who respect Maine, who have roots and ancestory in these lands since the 1700's. Gays should be thankful that they live in a country that tolerates their behavior, and stop the fuss over a marriage license.

31 States, 31 Losses by popular vote. Only time it wins is thru corrupt courts.

Marriage is NOT a Right - It is a ceremony dating over 2000 years for the union of a man & woman - We have ceremonies for swearing in Presidents or joining the Elks - Let the gay & lesbian community devise / write & accept their own ceremony - We have laws already for estate planning - housing etc. If we allow same sex marriage - then why stop there - we could be seeing brother's wanting to marry their brother - Is this too acceptable - where do we draw the line - who are we going to be discriminated against - Brother's are going to cry fowl - same as same sex couples - Let's expand this for a second - so Maine did allow Gay marriage - Two lesbians take a trip - one dies - Will that country accept the lesbian right's as a partner - This is not the way to change accepted society as recognized around the world -

Jesus Christ warned Believers to watch out for "wolves" - a warning that included a warning to the wolves themselves of the fate that awaits them if they don't repent of their evil:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits.

Thank you Bishop Malone for your efforts and undying dedication to preserving traditional marriage. Shalom.

Throughout this whole debate and now with the vote over, I have noticed the ones doing the namecalling are the gays and gay supporters. They have also been the ones to 'thumbs down" those in favor of nature as it is intended. Also, take a look at the map. It's about time most of Maine (areawise) actually outvoted Northern Massachusetts

I am also a taxpayer in this great state of Maine, and I don't think there is any need to vote on this again in the future. The million$ upon million$ can be put to good use elsewhere. Tuesday was a glorious day for morality. Good job Maine!

>>>>>Throughout this whole debate and now with the vote over, I have noticed the ones doing the namecalling are the gays and gay supporters. They have also been the ones to 'thumbs down" those in favor of nature as it is intended.<<<<

QUOTED FOR TRUTH :)

>>>>Marriage is NOT a Right - It is a ceremony dating over 2000 years for the union of a man & woman - We have ceremonies for swearing in Presidents or joining the Elks - Let the gay & lesbian community devise / write & accept their own ceremony - We have laws already for estate planning - housing etc. If we allow same sex marriage - then why stop there - we could be seeing brother's wanting to marry their brother - Is this too acceptable - where do we draw the line - who are we going to be discriminated against - Brother's are going to cry fowl - same as same sex couples - Let's expand this for a second - so Maine did allow Gay marriage - Two lesbians take a trip - one dies - Will that country accept the lesbian right's as a partner - This is not the way to change accepted society as recognized around the world - <<<<<

*agrees*

anonon

we would gladly secede your tax contributions (all 2.7% of you) if you would kindly leave the state or at least quiet down with the rhetoric.

we've spoken, now you listen.

Anonon: It's a total waste of time to try reason with the ignorant, uneducated, uninformed and bigoted idiots who still think the world is flat, that the US never went to the moon and that there are UFO's and aliens around every corner. The majority are lemmings who live in fear of eternal damnation if they don't abide by the admonistions of the Bishop of Rome or other religious pundants like Bob Emirch. From some of their comments, I think that these fools actually believe that NO GAY people live in there towns. Well, I've got news......................

The State of Maine has actually written DISCRIMNATION into Law! NICE!

THe gays had theere day

My take on the vote....

The No side did not really run much of a get out the vote campaign north of Cumberland county, with maybe the exception of Orono and Farmington. (Two college towns). Either they thought they could carry the issue with just an overwhelming vote from southern Maine (very audacious and dumb in my opinion) or their campaign workers who for the most part were urbanites were not comfortable going out into the rural areas and stumping.

The other issue was the late breaking ethics complaint against the guidance counselor that was filed by someone who worked with the principal married to the woman in the first No on #1 ad. This self inflicted wound, set the debate about free speech and the gay "agenda" going into the last weekend. The polls shifted slightly then. Look at the poling done the week before when it was tied and the last poll done as that story broke.

Then the fact that more older voters came out than expected, maybe due to TABOR and the scare tactics on the excise tax sent the demographics into an area that was hard for them to overcome.

YES #1 was outspent and their ads were not as slick, and as far as I saw they did no direct mailing. Whereas NO#1 had much more money, slicker ads and direct mail. But politics is a ground game and the NO side wasnt on the ground in enough of a significant way north of Gray/Wiscasset/Westbrook.

Remember it was not that long ago that the KKK marched in our streets and they are still marching.

Bambam re 6:33am. This is the kind of hate spewed by the gays when they lose. Can you imagine what they would say if they had won?

Check out this:

A Manifesto! by THe Rt Rev John Shelby Spong.

http://walkingwithintegrity.blogspot.com/2009/10/manifesto-from-our-friend-bishop-john.html

The YES vote WON, the NO vote LOST ! GET OVER IT !

Jesse Connolly wants to find out 'where every one of these votes lives"

please

Thursday October 15, 2009

By John Shelby Spong

A Manifesto! The Time Has Come!

I have made a decision. I will no longer debate the issue of homosexuality in the church with anyone. I will no longer engage the biblical ignorance that emanates from so many right-wing Christians about how the Bible condemns homosexuality, as if that point of view still has any credibility. I will no longer discuss with them or listen to them tell me how homosexuality is "an abomination to God," about how homosexuality is a "chosen lifestyle," or about how through prayer and "spiritual counseling" homosexual persons can be "cured." Those arguments are no longer worthy of my time or energy. I will no longer dignify by listening to the thoughts of those who advocate "reparative therapy," as if homosexual persons are somehow broken and need to be repaired. I will no longer talk to those who believe that the unity of the church can or should be achieved by rejecting the presence of, or at least at the expense of, gay and lesbian people. I will no longer take the time to refute the unlearned and undocumentable claims of certain world religious leaders who call homosexuality "deviant." I will no longer listen to that pious sentimentality that certain Christian leaders continue to employ, which suggests some version of that strange and overtly dishonest phrase that "we love the sinner but hate the sin." That statement is, I have concluded, nothing more than a self-serving lie designed to cover the fact that these people hate homosexual persons and fear homosexuality itself, but somehow know that hatred is incompatible with the Christ they claim to profess, so they adopt this face-saving and absolutely false statement. I will no longer temper my understanding of truth in order to pretend that I have even a tiny smidgen of respect for the appalling negativity that continues to emanate from religious circles where the church has for centuries conveniently perfumed its ongoing prejudices against blacks, Jews, women and homosexual persons with what it assumes is "high-sounding, pious rhetoric." The day for that mentality has quite simply come to an end for me. I will personally neither tolerate it nor listen to it any longer. The world has moved on, leaving these elements of the Christian Church that cannot adjust to new knowledge or a new consciousness lost in a sea of their own irrelevance. They no longer talk to anyone but themselves. I will no longer seek to slow down the witness to inclusiveness by pretending that there is some middle ground between prejudice and oppression. There isn't. Justice postponed is justice denied. That can be a resting place no longer for anyone. An old civil rights song proclaimed that the only choice awaiting those who cannot adjust to a new understanding was to "Roll on over or we'll roll on over you!" Time waits for no one.

I will particularly ignore those members of my own Episcopal Church who seek to break away from this body to form a "new church," claiming that this new and bigoted instrument alone now represents the Anglican Communion. Such a new ecclesiastical body is designed to allow these pathetic human beings, who are so deeply locked into a world that no longer exists, to form a community in which they can continue to hate gay people, distort gay people with their hopeless rhetoric and to be part of a religious fellowship in which they can continue to feel justified in their homophobic prejudices for the rest of their tortured lives. Church unity can never be a virtue that is preserved by allowing injustice, oppression and psychological tyranny to go unchallenged.

In my personal life, I will no longer listen to televised debates conducted by "fair-minded" channels that seek to give "both sides" of this issue "equal time." I am aware that these stations no longer give equal time to the advocates of treating women as if they are the property of men or to the advocates of reinstating either segregation or slavery, despite the fact that when these evil institutions were coming to an end the Bible was still being quoted frequently on each of these subjects. It is time for the media to announce that there are no longer two sides to the issue of full humanity for gay and lesbian people. There is no way that justice for homosexual people can be compromised any longer.

I will no longer act as if the Papal office is to be respected if the present occupant of that office is either not willing or not able to inform and educate himself on public issues on which he dares to speak with embarrassing ineptitude. I will no longer be respectful of the leadership of the Archbishop of Canterbury, who seems to believe that rude behavior, intolerance and even killing prejudice is somehow acceptable, so long as it comes from third-world religious leaders, who more than anything else reveal in themselves the price that colonial oppression has required of the minds and hearts of so many of our world's population. I see no way that ignorance and truth can be placed side by side, nor do I believe that evil is somehow less evil if the Bible is quoted to justify it. I will dismiss as unworthy of any more of my attention the wild, false and uninformed opinions of such would-be religious leaders as Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Albert Mohler, and Robert Duncan. My country and my church have both already spent too much time, energy and money trying to accommodate these backward points of view when they are no longer even tolerable.

I make these statements because it is time to move on. The battle is over. The victory has been won. There is no reasonable doubt as to what the final outcome of this struggle will be. Homosexual people will be accepted as equal, full human beings, who have a legitimate claim on every right that both church and society have to offer any of us. Homosexual marriages will become legal, recognized by the state and pronounced holy by the church. "Don't ask, don't tell" will be dismantled as the policy of our armed forces. We will and we must learn that equality of citizenship is not something that should ever be submitted to a referendum. Equality under and before the law is a solemn promise conveyed to all our citizens in the Constitution itself. Can any of us imagine having a public referendum on whether slavery should continue, whether segregation should be dismantled, whether voting privileges should be offered to women? The time has come for politicians to stop hiding behind unjust laws that they themselves helped to enact, and to abandon that convenient shield of demanding a vote on the rights of full citizenship because they do not understand the difference between a constitutional democracy, which this nation has, and a "mobocracy," which this nation rejected when it adopted its constitution. We do not put the civil rights of a minority to the vote of a plebiscite.

I will also no longer act as if I need a majority vote of some ecclesiastical body in order to bless, ordain, recognize and celebrate the lives and gifts of gay and lesbian people in the life of the church. No one should ever again be forced to submit the privilege of citizenship in this nation or membership in the Christian Church to the will of a majority vote.

The battle in both our culture and our church to rid our souls of this dying prejudice is finished. A new consciousness has arisen. A decision has quite clearly been made. Inequality for gay and lesbian people is no longer a debatable issue in either church or state. Therefore, I will from this moment on refuse to dignify the continued public expression of ignorant prejudice by engaging it. I do not tolerate racism or sexism any longer. From this moment on, I will no longer tolerate our culture's various forms of homophobia. I do not care who it is who articulates these attitudes or who tries to make them sound holy with religious jargon.

I have been part of this debate for years, but things do get settled and this issue is now settled for me. I do not debate any longer with members of the "Flat Earth Society" either. I do not debate with people who think we should treat epilepsy by casting demons out of the epileptic person; I do not waste time engaging those medical opinions that suggest that bleeding the patient might release the infection. I do not converse with people who think that Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans as punishment for the sin of being the birthplace of Ellen DeGeneres or that the terrorists hit the United Sates on 9/11 because we tolerated homosexual people, abortions, feminism or the American Civil Liberties Union. I am tired of being embarrassed by so much of my church's participation in causes that are quite unworthy of the Christ I serve or the God whose mystery and wonder I appreciate more each day. Indeed I feel the Christian Church should not only apologize, but do public penance for the way we have treated people of color, women, adherents of other religions and those we designated heretics, as well as gay and lesbian people.

Life moves on. As the poet James Russell Lowell once put it more than a century ago: "New occasions teach new duties, Time makes ancient good uncouth." I am ready now to claim the victory. I will from now on assume it and live into it. I am unwilling to argue about it or to discuss it as if there are two equally valid, competing positions any longer. The day for that mentality has simply gone forever.

This is my manifesto and my creed. I proclaim it today. I invite others to join me in this public declaration. I believe that such a public outpouring will help cleanse both the church and this nation of its own distorting past. It will restore integrity and honor to both church and state. It will signal that a new day has dawned and we are ready not just to embrace it, but also to rejoice in it and to celebrate it.

– John Shelby Spong

Maine: The Way Life Should Be. Not.

MayorMchess: If being a Maine born...love my state, classifies me as a 'Redneck"..just fine as I like my state as it is and always never liked you people coming from out of state and trying to change it jusk like your home state; which you left; because your state 'su..ed'.. Then with all your big money power buying up all our land and posting it.

All you people who say you will never vacation in Maine again: I say good riddance..! Go and build your life in another state.Leave our way alone. Most of the southern part of Maine is all people from Mass..etc. and not Natives of Maine You all came here because of our ways and then you wanted change? Go live in Wash. DC if you want change.

We never needed you in the first place.

Jazz11: get a life!..go back to where ever you came from along with AionCa....stay out of Maine.

Although a non Catholic but working towards that, I do wish to extend my sincere gratitude to Marc Mutty as well as the Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Maine. THANK YOU!

And to those who continue to degrade the Catholic faith, I have watched a declining membership over the years in my former religion (Episcopalian) as well. The loss of numbers is affecting evey church. It has little to do with the faith, i.e. Episcopalian, Catholic, Baptist, etc., but moreso with the decline in morals and the do-good, feel-good attitude and the everything is ok attitude that seems to be overtaking numbers of this great nation.

To those who still live by the word of God, keep the faith. And to those who have led others astray and have lost their sense of sin, particularly leaders of churches whose teachings & messages contrast that of Jesus Christ - as mentioned above the "wolves in sheeps clothing" - may God grant you mercy and forgiveness!

DagnyTaggart wrote:

Although a non Catholic but working towards that, I do wish to extend my sincere gratitude to Marc Mutty as well as the Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Maine.

It's not the Roman Catholic Diocese of Maine; it's the Diocese of Portland

The Diocese of Maine is The Episcopal Church.

" Christopher " wrote - Maine: The Way Life Should Be. Not. - or is his name CHRISSY - PRISSSY CHRISSY --- HAHAHAHA

Thanks BamBam, I'm still learning and will continue to.

"The unfortunate part is, I think you could see a lot of gay couples start to move out of state, especially when they can be legally recognized by just moving across the border to New Hampshire (in fact including Canada, Maine is bordered on all sides by jurisdictions recognizing gay marriage). They will take with them their productivity and creativity. I think the places that have the most to lose from that are places like Portland, Bangor, and Orono, places that voted overwhelmingly to maintain gay marriage."

I can understand why you might want to move away. I'm very sorry if you were mislead into thinking that Maine is a place that now you know it's not, so you're probably right it's best for gays to simply move across any one of our borders where you'll be much happier. I appreciate your concern for the great harm this will undoubtedly do to our State's productivity and creativity, but those of us left behind will somehow soldier on. See ya!

>>>I think the places that have the most to lose from that are places like Portland, Bangor, and Orono, places that voted overwhelmingly to maintain gay marriage<<<

You're off on penobscot county. They voted 50.6% for the REPEAL of gay marriage. That's different than "overwhelming" If it was so "overwhelming" the No camp would have won...

If people want to leave because they don't like the vote, go ahead! Just don't "threaten" to leave. Either leave , Don't, or ACCEPT the VOICE of the VOTERS. :D

To whom it may concern I think the sign says we dont want you here.do this dont do that cant you read the sign

Yes on 1 supporters including Tim Russell (right) and his wife Sheila of Sidney celebrate after the campaign declared victory at Jeff's Catering in Brewer on Tuesday, Nov. 3, 2009. Buy Photo

Wow - it looks like she is on her knees kissing his ring. How 1800s ...

"How 1800's" ?

Tradition, I suppose. Much like the traditional values that the people of the great state of Maine have decided to hold on to.

Radical, right wing, racist, bigot, Bible pounder, red neck, ignorant, uneducated, idiot, uninformed, hate monger. All these names I have been given for voting the way I believe? Are we all supposed to be following in a neat little line toward one area? Is there to be no other side of any issue these days?

I have just one word for all of you that didn't like the outcome of Question 1: MOVE!

# Oh My; Great Great Job all you Poster Children of Hate>>Just Great #

You are doing such a fine job of showing your true feelings of how it is about hate of a certain people.

You are doing a great job of saying Gays are not Human.

You are doing a great job of showing everyone that the Vote in Maine was about going back in time.

You are doing a great job of showing that you cannot relate.

You are doing a great job of saying this is nothing like the Struggles of Women in History.

You are doing a great job of saying this is nothing like the Struggles of the Blacks in History.

You are doing a great job of saying that what happened to the Jews in Germany was NOT about HATE in our History.

Oh Yeah; Great Job Expressing your TRUE FEELINGS on all that.

But you are not doing a great job of showing (( WHY ?? )) Ignorance and Hate and Bigotry is not just like all of the above SHAME in our PAST History

Nope your not doing a (( GOOD )) job of that. For the Shame most be Hard to Deal With and the da (( FACTS ))

And that (( Shame )) is going to just keep @ Coming Back and Back and Back in YOUR FACE @

For just like ALL the REASONS of Ignorance Hate and Bigotry were pointed out to the PEOPLE of SHAME .

History Does not lie the way. WOMEN and BLACKS and the JEWS were put DOWN for the REASONS and the Courts Took Care of That.

And lets NOT forget the INDIANS of our past HISTORY.

And the Shamefull People in OUR past were never ever let OFF the HOOK of there PAST SHAME until they changed there ATTITUDE

@@ So just keep it UP for YOU are OUR SHAMEFULL POSTER FACES of OUR PAST @@

If the gays will give up their special treatment, and all those who sued because they didn't get a job they weren't qualified for or the apartment they couldn't afford return all the money and expenses maybe, saying being gay was the reason maybe people would have had a different point of view on the love and validation thing.

Maybe if the name calling stopped people might believe it's not for selfish reasons and money. Maybe if the gays saw that other people besides themselves have more discrimination against them then they do, things may have turned out different.

To suggest that lacking in education is the reason people didn't want gay marriage is correct but on the side of the gays.

Maybe if the State of Maine hadn't created the war and made all couples equal, then this waste of time and generated hate wouldn't have happened......

But then again sallyballs made quite a visual in one of her statements yesterday that likely has changed opinions.

It's good to see that contrary to popular belief, Southern Maine does not decide the vote in Maine. My hats off to rural Maine for getting out the vote.

Hopefully they will remember their legislators that foced us to have to vot on this issue in the first place. Clearly the people in Augusta are not representing thier constituants.

I also love all of these morons that say they won't come to Maine, they act like without gay tourism, we will parish. FYI, we'll do just fine. Take your precious Volvo and drive somewhere else.

Elfie1

that is the liberal way. If you dont agree with them they put a label on you

Its time to label them.

Bambam1948

Mr. Spong: An elegant, comprehensive, cogent post which expresses my feelings and beliefs. I shall stand with you.

"We are confronted primarily with a moral issue… whether all Americans are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities, whether we are going to treat our fellow Americans as we want to be treated."

John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Naaaa, Baldacci shot himself in the foot. Reasoning : Because of the current economic crisis in Maine, people are pissed that Baldy spends more time worrying about the gays and no time on how to bring jobs and economy to the state of Maine, or how families are going to keep their houses warm for the winter. I know many NO people who voted YES just because Baldy was backing the bill. Just out of spite against Baldy!! Not because they believed gay marriage is wrong! Even with the No campaign raising $4 million versus $2.5 million for the Yes campaign. No on 1 also had a network of an estimated 8,000 volunteers — far more than the Yes side, the NO's still couldn't win!! hahahaha. It had nothing to do with your efforts! Had everything to do with BALDY in your corner!!! I even know many gay people who voted yes!!! Because they didn't want to get married in Maine, because it's soooo poor and run by that idiot Baldy!!

Ahh, looking at this map I can see now what happened— ignorant white trash got themselves out of their coffee brandy induced haze long enough to stagger to the polls.

They're understandably angry at the world. After all, now that we have machinery to do much of the menial, unskilled work that was their bread-and-butter, there's no industry nor economy for them up there. So this was finally an opportunity for them all to stand up and say "hey look, we still matter!"

Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory. All you've done is make this journey to equality take a bit longer, just like the ignorant white trash of Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and their ilk did in the 50's and 60's.

I'll continue to support you and your "rustic" trailer lifestyles with my tax dollars. Just know when you cash that food stamp check that you're being fed with gay money.

Welcome to the FUTURE of MAINE until FREEDOM is WON

That was the YES`ERS Vote not the NO`s

SO HERE COMES ANOTHER DAY OFF SHAME FOR YOU

If you can`t stand the HEAT maybe it is you YES`ers NEED to GET OUT of the KITCHEN

DAT the FACTS of your VOTE of YES

That's right. And JFK was a moral man, and if I recall, very CATHOLIC. Rest assured his moral compass would have guided him much like the people of Maine's moral compass guided them.

>>>On 11/4/09 at 11:55 PM, MayorMcheesy wrote: Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

floridamainer....how bout bible bumping uneducated hicks? Because it is apparent that is who voted for this.....religion had its chance...it was called the dark ages<<<

I am not a Bible thumping uneducated hick. I did have a farm and raise livestock. Unproductive female animals are culled from the herd. Most males are castrated. A non-castrated male would also be culled if he proved to be unproductive. I also hunt and support hunters but only if they are providing for themselves and their families. I am rather tired of the treehuggers who have closed down much of our industry and also of the mongers who have sent what is left of our industry to China so they can have personal greater profits. The special interests want to control absolutly every bit of our public AND personal lives. Tolerance and Sensitivity are pushed to the edge and it is only natural that people will begin to push back. Pilgrims came to this Continent to escape total control and there was also the American Revolution when the Colonists stood up and took control of their lives. I suspect more and more special interest laws will be voted down.

Christ, if I was gay, I wouldn't want to get married in that dumpy poor, fat, state of Maine anyways!! Jesus, the worst Governor ever, with the highest unemployment rate ever, the worst economic state Maine has ever been in, more people have lost their jobs under Baldy that any other Governor. Man, get out of Bar Harbor and Portland once in your life and you'll realize that their are better states than Maine. And sorry BDN, even with your gay loving crusade, you still couldn't convince Mainers. You (BDN) were another reason that gays lost, (along with Baldy). The next time you shove something down the throats of the people of Maine, try worrying about the decrease in sales of your papers. I heard it's not very good over there at the BDN!! Lay-offs coming!! BDN and Baldy, the two reasons why NO lost!!! Too bad....You guys tried hard!

Yeah Stinger, just like you're God's gift to humanity...LOL

@ Yep, no one seems to care if 48% of Maine spent there MONEY in MA, NH or VT @

>>>>Pretty easy to DO and Still LIVE in MAINE<<<<

I may not be a gift to humanity, but I do have a moral compass - I voted Yes on 1

The words of JFK echo those in the Bill of Rights. Surely a very immoral and Catholic document.

ElectraGlide re 8:07am Your post was laughable and pitifull. Women, Blacks, Jews and Indians were treated unfairly for decades and were correctly given their due rights. Gays have all the rights as any other individual in this country. Unfortunately you invision gay marriage a "right". Immorality simply is not deserving of rights. That's why the people of the State of Maine voted YES on Question 1. What is it that you don't understand about this stance?

I love how the NO people thought they would come up here and push the Mainer's around. Did they really think we could be pushed? Why would they think us "hicks and rednecks" could be pushed into anything? Was it because they think we are dumb? It was a great thing when they thought they would come up from Mass and NY and push us around. Now we push back harder then they could and we get called names. I just want to know if they will support the real rednecks when they want to start marring their own family? If it's ok for 2 men to marry why not a brother and sister? If they are adults and love each other it should be ok right?

AS Kennedy said, the moral issue is equal rights in this country, not your uninformed interpretation. Are 48% of Mainers immoral? WOW!

What is the woman in the photo on the left saying? "Hey look at me, thanks a lot, do you think with a mug like this, any man would come within a 100 feet of me?"

Sorry, but seeing as all you No on one people want to comment on the other photo, I thought it was only fair...

I for ONE can not wait until this State is ALL RED instead of GREEN

Cannot Wait until the Progression of GOOD over EVIL has WON in this STATE

JUST plain ole TIRED of the SSDD Attitudes in this MY STATE also. (((:~o ) )))

"I am also a taxpayer in this great state of Maine, and I don't think there is any need to vote on this again in the future."

Don't worry... it's the Court's turn: you won't have to spend a dime.

What you going to DO throw this STAIGHT off A BRIDGE someday

Already saw that ONE in Maine same SYMBOL of the ole SOUTH

((:~o ))))

newburgher, you are absolutely correct, we were idiots to think you could be talked to like adults and would understand concepts like fairness and equality.

It's interesting that the map of who voted for/against the measure lines up nicely with maps of who is living in poverty, who is uneducated, and who's towns are imploding from business FLEEING this state because we don't need uneducated mouth breathers pulling spools of paper off machinery.

So, we'll now go the route that other civil rights efforts have seen success with-- plead our case with the wise, educated people of our judiciary, who UNDERSTAND concepts of "equal protection under the law" and "constitutional obligation".

My 88 year old Grandmother - who has been going to Sea Vu Campground in Wells, ME since 1969 told me because of the vote "against me" she doesn't want to go camping next year.

She said it isn't the same Maine she has loved all these years.

Why did her generation, a more accepting generation, raise the generation of intolerant people who came out to the polls and voted away my right to equality under civil law? Worse off, they supposedly did it because they think God told them to.

Yes the Spirit of Matin Luthur King is Still Marching ON

>>>>>>>On 11/5/09 at 8:17 AM, ConvivialVisits wrote: Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Ahh, looking at this map I can see now what happened— ignorant white trash got themselves out of their coffee brandy induced haze long enough to stagger to the polls.<<<<<<<<

WOW This is the attitude those of us who voted Yes on 1 are expected to embrace

"Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory. All you've done is make this journey to equality take a bit longer, just like the ignorant white trash of Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and their ilk did in the 50's and 60's".

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

It is so ridiculous that you gay people keep harping on the black/women

comparison...There is NONE. People of color, women, native americans,

all of these were truely oppressed. They had no choice of color or gender.

You are NOT being denied any rights that any other americans have.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of support came from 4 counties.

That's 4 out of 16. And even then only one of those was with any kind of

margin at all. Maine as a whole does not want SSM. Try to change the laws

that you feel need to be to get the benefits that you want. But you need to

go about it a different way. SSM is NOT going to work.

So we live in a theocracy, where the religious beliefs of a narrow majority are forced on a minority.

the great New York answer to everything "WE WILL SUE!"

??? Who were Your Role Models in History You Yes`ers ???

& Mine were Bugs Bunny, Roy Rogers & Tonto, Walker Texas Ranger, Monk, Gen Patton, President Kennedy

President Reagan, and President Lincoln and Gen Grant.!!! &&

@ That Be just a Few of Mine @

Again YOU YES`ers What the Heck were Yours

((:~o ) )))

I have advocated for years that the State (all states) should get out of the marriage business. If they did this then marriage (as defined by the yes crowd) would be a strictly "sacred" religious act. Churches then could define "marriage" as they chose.

With the "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and the current diversity of religions practiced in the US, the way out of this mess seems crystal clear. No State sanctioned marriage, no problem! At the same time all civil laws regarding "marriage" should be repealed.

Of course you may wish to consider the source of this advise; I personally believe a good Marriage is a 455 Buick Engine and a Borg-Warner T10 transmission.

"According to the last campaign finance report, filed two weeks before the election, the No campaign had raised $4 million versus $2.5 million for the Yes campaign. No on 1 also had a network of an estimated 8,000 volunteers — far more than the Yes side."

Money had absolutely nothing to do with this!! It was God's intervention that saved marriage in Maine as HE and HE alone created it. As it says in the marriage vows, "What God has joined together, let NO MAN put asunder." The Lord has spoken, folks, now why don't you put your efforts and money to some far greater use, like feeding the hungry and housing the homeless. Jesus commanded us to take care of the widows, orphans and those less fortuanate than ourselves. May the Lord's Will continue to prevail in the State of Maine. Amen! And THANK YOU, LORD!!

"WOW This is the attitude those of us who voted Yes on 1 are expected to embrace"

Embrace nothing. The court cares not for your opinion, and you care not for truth.

So... to the courts we will go. Thankfully, unlike CA, Maine doesn't allow popular vote to amend the state Constitution: once something is declared unconstitutional, it sticks.

See ya in court.

so you NO people will support siblings getting married then?

I am so proud of my home state of Maine. I have lived in NY for seven years but was born and raised in Maine. From looking at the voting map, it appears the "real" Maine voters made the difference. I am so proud of you. I just hope the other forty nine states are paying attention. Sorry, but I personally think the gay/lesbian community wants special rights not equal. I am a heterosexual female who lived at home with my parents my whole life. After they passed, I could not receive any of their death benefits. It is no more right that a gay couple receive each others benefits.

"Don't worry... it's the Court's turn: you won't have to spend a dime"

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

So who do you think will be paying for this?????

ElectraGlide re all of your posts. You're grasping and it shows. Give it up; you're acting like a fool.

The final battle against intolerance is

to be fought -- not in the chambers of

any legislature -- but in the hearts of men.

~Dwight David Eisenhower~

The 47% have 19 more States to go, to see if the voters will fall for it.

look people it's over, let's get back buisness. You know there are a lot of other issues you can champion, even more important than homosexuals right to marry.

8:28 MaineSurvivor2

I understand you thought process just fine.

That thought process is not WHY I volunteered to Go Into the Army in 67 of the Viet Nam War.

I have NOT forgotten what is the Difference between Good and Evil

Does that Answer Your Dang ?

What do you Think about MY dang thought Process

Can`t wait for YOUR dang Answer. Just can not WAIT. ((:~o ) ))))

newburgher, sure I support your marriage to your sister. I'm sure your mewing brood of mouth breathers will make great gas station attendants.

HRH419, if you were concerned about spending LESS money to fight against equality, you should have voted NO so this would be over with...

Thank you to all those who voted to keep Maine green. And for those who didn't vote, there best not be any opinions here- you blew your chance.

tedlick re: 8:29 I am sympathetic with you because I realize this means a great deal to you, and I am afraid you are right and too bad equality has to be decided this way, BUT!!.... the "No" side of this emotional issue is not doing anyone any favors by the way they are reacting and commenting.....i.e. "the religious beliefs of a narrow majority", "the ignorant white trash got themselves out of their coffee brandy induced haze long enough to stagger to the polls ", the vote "against me", "we were idiots to think you could be talked to like adults and would understand concepts like fairness and equality", "we don't need uneducated mouth breathers pulling spools of paper off machinery", "What you going to DO throw this STAIGHT off A BRIDGE someday", "Bible thumping uneducated hick", "your "rustic" trailer lifestyles", "Radical, right wing, racist, bigot, Bible pounder, red neck, ignorant, uneducated, idiot, uninformed, hate monger"; These words will not soon be forgotten and folks will recall them the next time they step into the voting booth.....it was a "battle", the "Yes" vote won out this time, next time ??....Crazy!

newburgher, sure I support your marriage to your sister. I'm sure your mewing brood of mouth breathers will make great gas station attendants.

jealous because siblings can reproduce????

Conviv wrote - "So, we'll now go the route that other civil rights efforts have seen success with-- plead our case with the wise, educated people of our judiciary, who UNDERSTAND concepts of "equal protection under the law" and "constitutional obligation".

------

And when the wise, educated people of the judiciary decide against you, will you accept their decision? Something tells me NO!!

Firefly, if this is not a dictatorship, then why are the non-gays and/or Christians being forced to have your idea of what our lives are supposed to be shoved down our throats?? You people do not want equality, YOU WANT A GAY DICTATORSHIP! God has prevailed here, be fair and let it rest. You have all you need to continue in your sinful ways. You have your God-given free will to make your own choices. You have the right to live your lives as you please. Stop trying to forece the rest of the world to your way of thinking. We have the right to free will choices and the way we want to live our lives as well. It appears that the gay population just wants ultimate control over everyone. And I see that as a DICTATORSHIP!!!

ConvivialVisits: Oh, I'm not concerned. It's just a odd

statement. It would be worth every penny spent...

@ I seem to Remember something about Standing UP for the US Constitution at ONE TIME @

Remember HRH yesterday you told a Native American that his/her comparison of the discrimination of Native Americans and gays/lesbians was wrong - you use your opinion to discredit/denounce comparisons made by people who actually have been discriminated against - so I guess you know more than them.

Think about that please.

PabMainer. You hit it right on the head. calling me names because i voted my mind will not change my vote.

Chersully what dont you understand grandma, its not protecting our children. You want your grandkids go to school come home and say to you grammy why can two men marry. Get a grip. Its not protecting children at all. The No side lost clearly. They will have to live with it. Gay Marriage is not allowed In Maine. Its over with, The courts cant do a darn thing, fight it fight it all you want.

tedlick - ALL Constitutuional Amendments in this state go before a popular vote of the people, after being passed in the Legislature. Now, all we need to do is have the Legislature pass a Constitutional Amendment in favor od traditional marriage - and if they don't, vote them out!

Come One and All

Everytime I take another Shot of NO FEAR Blood Shot

It just reminds me more and more

Of ALL the BLOOD that has been Sacraficed so YOU YES`ers Have the Right to Sprew your Ignorrant Bigoted Hatred

My oh My I sure ALL that BLOOD is sure PROUD of YOU ALL now.

Just bring it ON and ON

YOU Poster Children of Evil againts Good ((:~o ) )))

that BLOOD was spilled so you could try to push your beliefs on us to.

PabMainer~~~JUst remember ALL you Want To

Your Opinion is just fine with me.

It is your Attitude that is wrong

So you are going to hear about that

Just like our Attitude is sprewed in my face

Just going to have to deal with that call A Spade and Spade Thang

BTW Blacks taught me that Great Game.

What away to Call Out Liers ((:~o 0 )))))

History~~newburgher~~YOU can not hide from History and what has been Proven

TO be the Right Way to Vote on Equality

Yu got an answer for DAt ?? ((:~o ) )))

free2bee: The point I made yesterday to the poster was to show

that He/She has a legitamate beef. Gays and lesbians do not. I

think that was very clear to them and you. When someone has

NO choice of color or gender, they are truely oppressed. Gays

lesbians have a choice. Thanks again for the links. We'll see

what happens with the studies.

Windfuture ty for your support. You just dont understand that tedlick is starting trouble because they are gonna take this to the supreme court, which if they do fine, were ready to fight this. Its been reppealled it wont be allowed at all now and a judge cant do a darn thing. Also ted is just upset because he had to cancel his wedding date he had set for the 4th to marry his great boyfriend lol. But ty for your support and as long as this continues in the Bdn, tedlick will continue to comment and become even nastier

History~~newburgher~~YOU can not hide from History and what has been Proven

TO be the Right Way to Vote on Equality

Yu got an answer for DAt ?? ((:~o ) )))

I'm still married today how bout you electra????

Way to go, Maine! For once, Maine did the right thing. Those dopes in Augusta care only about their own values and agenda. My only question is why Mainers continue electing them? Why do Mainers continue to support the very party that has destroyed the State? Maine is a disgrace and I am so happy to have left it behind. But for once, Maine made the right decision. YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN!

Maine the way life should be. If you don't like it then get out!

NO VOTE let it go. You lost, don't get upset and start insulting people. It just makes people think that maybe you were right to loose. I know some of you no voters put a lot of time an energy into this, but no likes a sore looser.

Yes Vote you could be a little more gracious about winning. Coming on this site and rubbing it in peoples faces doesn't make you right it just makes you an A hole.

Lets put it to bed Maine we defintly have bigger fish to fry.

Way to go, people of Maine. You overturned it. NOW THAT IS SOME CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN!

I think it's funny that those who support the gay community think we're all hicks, bigots, etc. when in fact Maine became the THIRTY-FIRST state t say "no" to gay marriage. I mean, come on, 31 states can't be wrong....

You Yes`ers~~~Just flat out Voted For A March of Tears for Gays

You just threw in the Face of History what you forgot.

The Indians of Maine will never forget or forgive That.

The Indians Ancestorys of the March of Tears will Never Ever Forget That.

Do YOU even KNow what the March of Tears Was in Our Shamefull Part of History.

I don`t Think You Do

Can You Answer that for Us You Yes`ers Can You ?? ((;~o ) ))))

Hello all....I work with several folks from many different areas around the world who are bi-lingual and multi-lingual, and one of our folks speaks 5 diff. languages.....pretty cool huh!...Anyhow, I have 2 college degrees myself and have been in my profession for many years and am not claiming to be the brightest bulb on the christmas tree...BUT! Could someone please interpret the idiotic postings from electraglide into a sensible dialogue that resembles some sort of common sense reasoning for me? I may be the only one out in the BDN comment world that thinks this guy is more than a few screws short of a box full and trying to find some bit of worth in his comments, so I do appologize if it seems to be just me!!

forHIMtoday is conspicuous by his absence. I guess he was a political operative after all.

When I read crap like this I am ashamed to be a Mainer.

newburgher~~~Straight Happily Married for over 20 years

X Human Service Worker Married to One of the Happiest Nurses Working for You All

In Bangor Maine and She is NOt Proud of YOu either.

Now I have answered your ? how About You

On second thought I may not really want to know what he is trying to say so please disregard my previous post......

You can hand out money Electra but you cannot hand out HOPE!

I am still confused as to why one's marital status has any bearing on someone else's life.

I also do not understand people who don't "have issues with homosexuality" but believe strongly that a Marriage is for a man and woman only.

We got rid of segregated water fountains years ago.

Live and let live.

Let there be Peace on Earth before it's too late...

Indians...Native Americans...How about just the "original illegal aliens".

Electra glide- I am a native American and please don't compare my history to this sillyness. "trail of tears " are you out of your mind. Get a hold of yourself you sound like an idiot.

No, PabMainer, RE 9:26 I think you have a pretty clear picture...

But thanks, I was a little worried it was just me.

Hey PabMainer~~~Can stand it, I know Common Sense is hard sometime isn`t it.

I know I`m not as Educated compared to you.

Sorry about that how can I help you understand

That what I think about treating All Human Being the Same

Doesn`t seem to be what you think all Human beings Should be Treated like (Equally)

Just what pray tell

What more can I do to explain what is Seperation of Church and State. Just What Please.

I know I know I don`t Know much compared to You ((:~o ) )))))

So realhockeymom, your gay then correct. Because if you werent you wouldnt be dissapointed you obviously have kids. You want your kids to be gay. This whole campaign of theres was all about gays. They would have run the state of Maine, is that what you want. I hope Not

I would encourage everyone to scroll back on this post board and read the ignorance that is being typed by ElectraGlide. THIS is the mind of a "NO" voter. Pathetic!

I heard that 73% of the people who voted Yes are welfare recipients.

Please don't compare electra glide to all no voters. That's like comparing George W to all republicans

8:43 am, you wrote, "It was God's intervention that saved marriage in Maine as HE and HE alone created it." That is blasphemy. The single most unforgivable sin. Where are all the Good Christians to denounce it?

Boy I must be hitting some nervers this am

Oh well All anyone that really cares what the Truth really is about negative hateful towards Gays and even Straight Supports of Gays

All You gotta do is go Back and Read all the Past Postings of all the Days leading up to this Day

I don`t have to I was there oh my was I there

Go Ahead just make alot of us go back and cut and pasted from the past of all this go ahead

Or do you just want to deal with hearing in a much more cival way what the feelings are today??? ((:~o ) ))))) I`m Not proud of All my Statements are YOU today<<

Lol Anne of Mdi, most welfare people are gay or lessys

A "people's veto" does not fulfill the requirements of representative democracy, which is our form of government on the state level as well as the federal. James Madison's distrust of the "tyranny of the majority" was based on his experience of the results of mob mentalities distorting the treatment of serious issues. As the BDN already has reminded us, it has rarely been popular votes that have made the greatest strides to secure such civil rights as women's right to vote and the long list of rights restored to people of color since the days of slavery. Majority votes have refused these rights. Legislatures and judiciaries have been the more effective constitutional structures by which local prejudices and oppressive laws have been set aside and transcended for the common good. We are currently involved in sorting out how we will secure equality of rights for our neighbors, children, and siblings whose sexual orientation is same gendered. Because there are so many interpretations of scriptural texts, religious dogma, community traditions, and cultural prejudices, this issue is ripe for exploitation by authoritarian and sectarian forces. And we have seen this occur, for the rhetoric to reverse the very thorough work of our legislators and governor, all of whom we have elected, has been stridently fraudulent and not respecting the heart of the issues involved. The result does not secure stability for our state's society, for it perpetuates disrespect of persons' differences and ignorance of deeper realities among us. Another effort to work at this through a popular referendum will likewise fail. Of necessity the legislature and the judiciary will have to be involved in the ultimate determination of full marriage equality in Maine.

Hey electraglide...I got to admit, and take this a s being constructive, I bypass your comments now because I haven't got a clue as to what you are saying. I much preferred your posting normaly...I may have disagreed at times but at least I could make sense of your points and some were valid and good. Now though, it appears you got a jump on the marijuana law before it was passed. I think you would offer more to the debates posting the way you did when I first came on here and began reading your comments. Like I said, this is meant to be constructive, not to crucify.

On 11/5/09 at 9:22 AM, speedypete wrote:

I think it's funny that those who support the gay community think we're all hicks, bigots, etc. when in fact Maine became the THIRTY-FIRST state t say "no" to gay marriage. I mean, come on, 31 states can't be wrong....

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

That is funny...That would mean there must be a lot of bigoted, ignorant, hateful, idiotic, coffee brandy drinking, trailer living,...

rednecks out there. What a picture. : )

Amazing to me that people actually expect me to be nice and tolerant after a quarter million of you yahoos voted away my rightfully bestowed civil rights.

I'm sorry, but you are all under the mistaken impression that your opinion about my life MATTERS anymore.

Your opinion mattered last week. Your opinion mattered last month. Your opinion mattered as late as Monday.

But your opinion of whether I deserve these rights no longer matters AT ALL. Our constitutional obligations require that marriage equality be enacted, it is only a matter of time as this works its way through our judicial process.

Feel free to thump your chests and call me names, I care not a bit. I did care about the outcome of this vote, because this was Maine's chance to save time and money to do the right thing.

Rest assured, the right thing will be done, I will have the same rights as you currently enjoy. And our nation will be better for it.

But don't expect me to treat a bunch of ignorant hicks in northern Maine with anything except the derision they rightfully deserve. You don't extend me the courtesy, after all.

If you study the referendum question number one results map of Maine, (link below), all the towns in green are places where traditionally true Mainers have lived with little influx of out-of-staters moving in.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/external/Question1/Vote2009GraphicFINAL.pdf

These people have consistently held to their traditional old-fashioned values of one woman/one man marriages. (We all should thank them for their support/votes in this entire "mess" because we YES voters wouldn't have won this referendum without them!)

The areas in red, you'll notice, are recreational/tourist locations that draw the out-of-staters with pockets full of money into Maine; the skiing areas, beaches, oceanfront, etc. (Yes, you can eventually throw in the Plum Creek people too.) With them they bring their city drugs, their city crime, and their evil wicked phagot ways into our state.

Many of these "tourists" are the very same people I've heard calling themselves "Mainahs" in interviews on the "NO" campaign on t.v. and in their photos in various newspapers, (with captions identifying themselves). Through my internet searches of various databases, I've found that the majority have actually come from Massachusetts and New York! They have been here covertly propagating, (somehow?! adoptions?), and recruiting.

They've sidled up to Jesse Connelly, who's quite connected to the governor, and tried to sneak their agenda into law. THEIR law, benefitting THEM, in OUR state!

Since the law was tossed out by vote of the people, I have read nothing but profanity, grossness, vulgarities, and threats from the NO crowd. I used to tolerate them in the past, but not so much any more. Maybe we should tax them? Some of them are claiming to leave our "hick" state. Fine! Don't let the toll gate hit ya on the way out!

The YES people have spoken. The NO people have lost. Get over it!

i love the NO people looking down on poor(welfare) and overweight(fat) people. is this the tolerance you are trying to preach to us? that's very tolerant of you to look down on those people.

speedypete, when interracial marriage was legislated across our nation, a full 70% of Americans disagreed with it.

You think that because 31 out of 31 states have voted to deny equality to homosexuals that somehow that means you're not ignorant hicks?

Sorry, but history has shown that extending equality is ALWAYS the right thing to do, and it is ALWAYS a struggle to convince people across our nation of this.

It's usually years AFTER we have equality that these idiots look back and don't even REMEMBER that they were so hateful and intolerant of something that proves to be not a bad thing at all.

9:00 AM, windfuture,

What you say about amendments is true.

However, for the court to find a situation/action/etc... as unconstitutional requires no citizen vote: and has no legal contest by the people. Once declared unconstitutional, the only thing that will change that is a change to the constitution: that latter part, does indeed require a vote of the people.

But not a declaration that something is unconstitutional.

Coronadrinker: your ignorance regarding how your government works is stellar. Absolutely amazing.

For months now I have been told that gay Americans are everywhere. Our brothers, friends, neighbors.... firemen, doctors, coaches... On Tuesday somebody, williamds I think, put the number @ 1 out of every 40. Now in the posts above we are told that the only reason "yes" won the vote was because the rednecks of Maine have never seen a gay person before. Which is it?

Also through the coarse of the run up to election, I would debate with some of you on the practice of attacking anybody that disagreed and calling anybody that didn't want to change marriage a hate filled stupid bigot or worse. I tried to point out that even though there were some ignorant people out there, a lot of people weren't being hateful, but were voting their conscience. As expected, even though I didn't vote yes, I was attacked for making that suggestion. I see above that 2 days later that is only getting worse. Even if you don't want to admit it the reality is that the election was reasonably close and maybe something other then the were going to kick the door in approach would have closed that margin. I have read some interesting things about that guidance councilor ( the one many of you wanted to drag threw the mud absent of any facts) and how the attacks on him actually rallied many "yes" voters. I'm not saying its about kissing arse, but rather how a little effort to really understand that not everybody that disagrees with you is hateful or stupid would help sway some of the middle ground.

RE: 9:57 AM, ConvivialVisits

Your thinkin' is warped. You're mean and nasty talkin' but you don't scare me.

I'm proud to be a native born backwoods Mainah. Git back in your closet,.. we didn't tell you to come out!

Up til Tuesday, I WAS tolerant. Not anymore. Care to meet?

Yep, shipbuilder, I have heard that hatefull speech all my life about people from away.

Seems like you just want there Money and not there attitude

to bad you can not have One w/o the other

Nice very nice poster Child of Hate of our new Citizens of Maine.

Just very nice of you thank ya!!!!

LilMikey~~Haven`t seen ya around much all through this debate.

I have not idea if you changed you mind on your vote or not.

Do not really care.

The my posting before the Vote are Going to be different now than the Past

FOr just like my feelings about People will always change depending on how the Vote

Just like you. But I thank you for talking to me like I am Human. Thank You<<< ((:~o ) ))))

Coronadrinker, shouldn't you be in school now?

9:57 am, Convivial Visits I wholeheartedly agree with all of your postings here today. The only small amount of comfort I can offer is that many of the postings on this site are bogus, hundreds even. One can only hope that there aren't quite that many ignoramuses here. If anything these one or two "mixed-up" individuals have given the whole world a false impression of the people who really did vote their conscience. Which could be their intention, who knows.

The yes on 1 won lets stop playing games. How many times do the people of Maine have to vote. This goes to prove that Vote No just wants what they want and that they don't care about what the people of Maine want.

conviv - you have as much of a Constitutional Right to get married as a bisexual who wants to marry one of each - NONE! I have said before, it is really not marriage that you seem to seek, but the benefits and giveaways you expect to receive through marriage. I suggest you find the rights that are most import to you, and work on those, such as hospital visitation. That's something many of us could actually support. If it's truly about rights, then start working on getting them without taking over marriage.

Be a homosexual OR get married - that IS a choice.

On 11/5/09 at 9:49 AM, anne_of_mdi wrote:

I heard that 73% of the people who voted Yes are welfare recipients.

=======================================================

Anne,

...and the written source of your statement is from,.... where?

I saw a neat bumper sticker just yesterday,

"You NO voters can blow my horn anytime."

MidwestTransplant: You get all of the law and not just the part you like. Our legislative scheme comes the closest to true democracy than almost any. We vote for folks to represent us, reserving the right to overturn those acts when they don't. You are certainly not disenfranchised, you exercised the franchise on Tuesday. I do not believe that my representative, John Piotti, is somehow more wise than the rest of us. Had this vote turned out differently, I wonder if you would be so willing to cede your own wisdom to someone else.

shipbuilder, first help me to understand where you're coming from. Are you a welfare recipient, Yes voter, or both?

Windfuture, calm down. What's it to you? Your side won. Get over it.

shipbuilder, I don't get that bumper sticker. Are you asking for a BJ? How does that fit in with your Catholic morality? Oh, I see. It's a joke on the Yes'ers. Ha ha!

well said duckwa

anne_of_mdi, I know I'm being very angry and intolerant today, I do recognize that. But it took a LOT of energy for me to be so "turn the other cheek" the last few weeks on these forums, as I knew that getting upset and angry at this bigoted hatred would not help the vote at all.

Posters here like Coronadrinker, Mainesurvivor, and of course the truly insane "forHIMtoday" make the BDN forums a place where you can come to see the truly disgusting underbelly of uneducated, immature, and narrow minded opinions that most Mainers thankfully keep to themselves.

And I know that by venting my frustration at an unjust situation, I'm of course being branded as a hateful intolerant queer who reinforces their beliefs that THEY are the ones who are oppressed.

But you know what? It's a relief not to have to give a flip about how I come across to others here. I am proud of being intelligent. I am proud of being aware of our nation's historical struggles as our society improves and becomes more inclusive. And I'm proud that my life here is far better, far easier, and far more fulfilling than that of the "we're not bigots!" bigots who decided to use their ONE bit of power in this world to lash out at folks like me who dare to be themselves and love someone fully even when that person might not fit their ideal of who my mate should be.

It was Maine's choice and right under the law. Now let us see the economic disaster coming to an already devasted economy. I hope the Catholic Church and people of Maine have plenty of money to pay for all the social programs and sevices that will be cut as a result of the coming boycotts. It's now our turn to exercise our rights.

windfuture, I really don't care if you agree with me or not. Your opinions on equality are blatantly obvious, if you had your way blacks would still be second class citizens, denied equal access to voting.

anne, amusing argument about the 73% of the people voting yes were welfare recipients. Did you see all the people on the messge boards for 24 hours straight on the No side? Leads me to believe that many No voters don't work huh?

11/5/09 Convivial, you wrote, "Posters here like Coronadrinker, Mainesurvivor, and of course the truly insane "forHIMtoday" make the BDN forums a place where you can come to see the truly disgusting underbelly of uneducated, immature, and narrow minded opinions that most Mainers thankfully keep to themselves."

That's what makes these blogs so popular!

As far as the rest of what you wrote, good for you. Freedom of anonymous expression is what these forums are supposed to be for, not unmitigated bullying. The more people who use it for that purpose the better. But bullying is how these guys get their jollies and there's not much that can be done about it apparently. They're the sick ones.

If Maine keeps going on with the direction they are going, it will make no difference whether Maine passes a bill to allow or not allow Gays to married. There won't be any state to live in....Young peopl are leaving, old people are dying, and the economy is in a disaster....and we keep on electing the same idiots to Augusta who care about NO one but themselves....To think that Maine used to be the Vacationland State HA! The only time Maine is heard about outside thier boundaries, is when their State Govement passes legislation that doesn't represent the will of the people, and when other states bring their people into our state and try to force their will on to our way of life.....Maine people have to stand up and put a stop to it. Let the gays living in Maine and it's Maine people work these issues out....we don't need people from away driving their will down our throats.....

Mrs. Kershaw said "That is blasphemy. The single most unforgivable sin." That caught my attention because I have never read any thing in the Bible that supports it. The last few days have shown your inability to support your incorrect claims about the constitution. Are you any better at supporting your claims about the Bible?

anne - I'm very calm. I really do wish the folks who want equal protection and certain rights would focus on those items that some of us bigots and haters could actually find common ground on and agree with. I'm on the record supporting medical visitation policy changes - perhaps the ability for ALL people, married or not, to designate a "medical next of kin" in case of medical emergency. Perhaps expanding the one-time exemption for real estate sales to everyone. Every one of the rights that have been listed time and time again in relation to mariage DON'T have to be related to marriage.

Bottom line for me - if you want to be gay - great, be gay! If you want to get married, don't be gay! It's your choice!

10:15 Hey ConvivialVisit~~You said it For Me better then For Me Could of Gee Thanks<<<((:~o ))))

conviv - you have no basis for saying what you said to me about blacks being second class citizens. You are great at making stuff up - I'll give you that!!

At 10:15am ConvivialVisits, a "NO" voter wrote " you can come to see the truly disgusting underbelly of uneducated, immature, and narrow minded opinions that most Mainers thankfully keep to themselves."

Wow! Thank God we defeated these people! Not only are they immoral, but highly condescending. Thank you to all of the "YES" voters that defeated this type of ignorance.

I love being a Mainer, however I'm not entirely impressed with how the posters are handling their success and failure. I proudly voted YES on ONE because I still believe marriage is intrinsically tied to gender, and to the value of having a Mother and a Father. Now before anyone get's howling about single parent families, I know many, and I know their struggles. It is illegal to discriminate against anyone in all regards in our wonderful State. You have every right I have, period. HOPEFULLY this will not create a cultural fracture that will cause people to act out in discriminatory ways, because the rhetoric from both sides has been hostile and growing.

I only wish the rest of my vote card was as successful as #1!

Play nice people!

It is what it is, Yes won, No lost...stop the crying and do something productive with your time....like knit some mittens for winter....oh, yeah you could always move to NH, Mass, VT or Conn. They didn't stand up to their legislators and now they can live with what they got....gay/lesbian marraige....go there you will be happier and so will we........

djknight: Do you really thnk that Maine will be boycotted? Is there really a concerted effort to boycott the 45 states that do not allow same sex marriage. I could be wrong, but I doubt that there will be a tidal wave tourists crossing Maine off the "places to see before I die but only if they pass gay marriage list". I was with you on this issue. These relationships exist, there are children and property involved and we do need an orderly process to disolve these when they fail that takes care of children, former partners and distributes property. The only proces that is efficient, flexible, equitable and designed to deal with these issues is divorce court. All this foot stomping, bring on the economic hate, if you didn't vote yes you are a backward, redneck, IQ 3 points above plant life sub-neanderthal is getting tiresome. Reasonable minds could differ on this issue and you will get farther by reasoned argument, engagement and demonstrating that you are no different then anyone else than you will by firing HEAT rounds at everyone.

Well realist38~~What I saw as a retired life time worker is not what you are saying.

Again do you want us to go back to the past and cut and pasted that.

Or you can just say like alot have done on here convince people they are who they say they are.

Can you answer that . for I know so far today I haven`t got my ? answered !!!

Or have Many No`ers ???? looking for the anwers !!!

10:23 am, wow Obamagirl you really need to study your Bible. Any Good Christians here agree with Obamagirl that blasphemy isn't a mortal sin?

MaineSurvivor2, you think you DEFEATED me?

HA.

You used your vote to deny me rights today. My equality will come, and you will have to live with it anyway. Just wait.

And yes, I know I come across as condescending— that's because I AM a better person than you.

The vote did not defeat anything, it just reinforced the stereotype of Maine as New England's Florida.

djknight1...... you have spent the morning threaten Maines economy. I think that there many rights that come with marriage that gay couples do deserve and I didn't vote yes, but I still find your rants make you sound desperate to lash out. I understand there was a lot of emotion involved and now many on the "no" side feel very frustrated. The reality is it isn't going to hurt the economy even a little bit. The reality is that gays are small minority and a large majority of Americans support traditional marriage, so one could claim that it will help Maine in the long run. Except that nobody factors things like that into vacation or business decisions on either side.

YES_ON_1 :

Of coarse you accept their money.

Yeah you people should be so proud and act like it was a land slide, I bet many of you had to change your pants throughout the counts it was so close, next time and there will be one as was stated yesterday we will not give up untill all of Maine is equall.

So you can keep wishing we will leave,but guess what I'm going to encourage all gay and same sex couples to move to Maine.

I have property I am going to make available to gays and couples, I have apartment buildings I will get to occupy those apartments.

I also have a camp ground that I am turning into a recreation retreat for gays and same sex couples.

There are more gays and same sex couples in Maine than you think and will be more when I get done.

So grab your ankles and kiss you butt goodbye Buddy.

For the record, I voted No on 1

Perhaps we should repeal the right to divorce. When those who are Christians and those who believe that the Vote No on 1 folks are wrong about being able having rights for a certain sector of our society, and the heterosexuals lose their right to divorce, they will begin to understand how difficult life has been for the G/L/B/T community.

As far as any G/L/B/T individuals taking a trip to another country or state, and those countries or states not recognizing the partnership or marriage; I would advise that BEFORE leaving the state or country together, these folks make certain that they have a Will, which specifies (in order by person), exactly those who he/she wishes to take care of the deceased's body/funeral if something should happen to them.

Those who worry about brother marrying brother, sister marrying sister etc... You've made an excellent point, this law would and should include; same sex brothers and sisters, as well as same sex half brothers and sisters and cousins etc..., if same sex marriage is ever enacted.

If same sex marriage is ever allowed, or even if it isn't allowed; laws need to be enacted for same sex couples to have the same rights as married people so that they are not excluded, when it comes to having the same rights as married couples (ie: insurance, social security, tax credits etc...).

I am quite certain the the G/L/B/T community would agree with my statements.

Yes, the sheeple of the Peoples Theocratic Republic of Maine have spoken, and they sometimes use more than one syllable. But they almost always use a Bible verse or two. Except the ones that talk about "judge not, lest ye be judged" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Those types of verses are conveniently forgotten, or explained away.

I'm embarrased by the sheeple of my state, but not surprised. Not at all.

The Vote is over, lets move on.

anne - according to Catholic faith, it is, depending upon whom it is targeted. "Blasphemy is of its whole nature (ex toto genere suo) a mortal sin, the gravest that may be committed against religion. The seriousness of an affront is proportioned to the dignity of the person towards whom it is directed. Since then the insult in blasphemy is offered to the ineffable majesty of God, the degree of its heinousness must be evident. Nevertheless because of slight or no advertence blasphemy may be either a venial sin only or no sin at all. Thus many expressions voiced in anger escape the enormity of a grave sin, except as is clear, when the anger is vented upon God."

For me, a sin is a sin is a sin.

It is interesting that the more Yes votes from an area, the lower the standard of living and the lower the education levels.

Just sayin'... not judging.

ricts - I don't see anyone being stoned - do you? Perhaps the folks who can now line up at the dispensary will be!!!

Coronadrinker:

Believe it or not gays bring alot of money into this state and the gays in this state pay for your welfare check, your booze and paying for your therapy.

Might want to be careful what you say your daughter may decide that she likes woman then what are you going to do?

Has anyone lately gone back and looked at the pictures of the what I think was the Greatest March on Washington to this Day.

Just look at the Melting Pot of Society that you see about All the People there.

You want to stop wasting Time or Don`t Cha

The Ball is in Your Court ??

>>>You can not Scare Freedom Away. Not now Not Then.<<<

Anyone got an answer for That. Or am I just hate monging again ???

On 11/5/09 at 10:41 AM, tedlick wrote:

It is interesting that the more Yes votes from an area, the lower the standard of living and the lower the education levels.

Just sayin'... not judging.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I was wrong about you...I thought you were above a statement like this...Live and Learn I guess.

ricts1, don't let the ignorant hicks of Maine sully its beauty to you.

Maine is still a very special place to me, and I will continue to live here and enjoy its beauty. I even enjoy the people of Maine, though there are a quarter million of them spread out across its rural areas who would treat me with disdain if they realized I was a dreaded homosexual.

But that's okay, I'll still have fun on the logging roads, I'll still go camping, fishing, and hiking in these beautiful rural areas. And as the pathetic, scared old people die off, the younger generations of rural Maine will rightfully understand that our sexual orientation isn't anything to be ashamed of or fearful of. We're all people, some are just more mature than others emotionally and ethically.

On 11/5/09 at 10:40 AM, windfuture wrote: "For me, a sin is a sin is a sin."

Now there is, to use a favorite of the Yes crowd, "a slippery slope".

Not being a Biblical scholar, I'm not gonna try and list all the various "sins" used by The Religious Right in the course of defending our families from "the abomination of homesexuality." But I bet there are few folks here who could fill out that list.

That's the issue, you see. Who gets to judge what is wrong in "Gopds" eyes, and how wrong is it? Worse than this but not as bad as that? And the issue of who gets to judge when that person has undoubtably "sinned" as well, since "everyone sins" but asks for forgiveness for those sins.

It's all rather confusing, this Biblical heirarchy. I guess I'd better study up, as it is drifting closer and closer to being the law of the land.

The congress mite give the ok for the Mayor of Washington to sign a law to let GAY people marry in Washington DC. How about that !!

On 11/5/09 at 10:42 AM, windfuture wrote: "ricts - I don't see anyone being stoned - do you? Perhaps the folks who can now line up at the dispensary will be!!!"

That is kinda funny. :)

More to the topic, if we were to follow the laws of The Bible, according to Leviticus we'd have to be stoning folks all the time. Again, the hypocrisy of choosing which is a sin these days and which is not boggles the mind. But The Bible says so, so we must obey!

Just to clarify for everyone— there is nothing wrong with being uneducated, there's nothing wrong with being poor. What's wrong is deciding that you need to use your vote to deny rights to people you've never met, yet you feel threatened by them.

There are absolutely upstanding rural poor in northern Maine who voted for equality, you can see their numbers in the poll results. But the majority in those areas appear to be proudly ignorant bigoted hicks who decided they had to lash out against a world that's passed them by.

10:43 AM, HRH419,

As I said: I was not judging. It is a statement of fact, nothing more.

My apologies if I have offended. If I were to judge based on facts like that, I wouldn't spend most of my free time in WaCo. It was a comment on demographics, it was not a judgmental statement.

conviv - now now. You really should settle down a bit. "And yes, I know I come across as condescending— that's because I AM a better person than you. The vote did not defeat anything, it just reinforced the stereotype of Maine as New England's Florida."

And I thought all gays loved DisneyWorld. You even have a special week there every year.

You might add to that list the other 29 states with Constitutional protection of traditional marriage. Seems our nation is just teeming with rednecks, bigots and haters - and I assume you're a better person than all of them. You know what's best for EVERYONE I'm sure. If you wouldn't write such vitriolic crap you wouldn't command such negative responoses. But, I know - in all of your wisdom, it must be the right thing to do.

10:35 AM, anne_of_mdi.... Mrs. Kershaw it wasn't a poll question. Usually when people make claims about things that are in writing such as a book or paper, they can support their claim by pointing out where that is found in the document. Its really a pretty basic process. I'm just say that this is the second time in as many days that you made claims that if true should be easy to support that you seem to lack the ability to support. I personally am still amazed that in over 200 years you were the only one of millions of Americans seems to have read where the US Constitution instructs that religion should be practiced in "private". Beating those kind of odds you should be play the lotto. Like I said its simple, if your claims are true then just point out to the rest of us where it says that so we can understand. I wonder what today's response will be… silence or personal attack?

The issue will continue. There were roughly 560,000 votes cast...Yes on One won by a little over 30,000 (about 53% to 47%). That's not very much and demographics are changing every day. Had this been on the ballot 20 years ago, the margin would have been 80% to 20%. Had it been on the ballot 10 years ago the margin would have been 65% to 35%. See a trend? Rural counties which supported Yes on One are depleting in population. "Urban" counties which supported No on One are increasing. In five years it will be a law again and reaffirmed by the people of Maine. Can't stop it. It's like fighting a glacier.

Actually ricts, if we followed the Bible, the full Bible, we wouldn't be stoning anyone these days, as Jesus fulfilled the law and replaced it with his death on the cross. All we must do is seek forgiveness. What was for a time the Levitical law has been put away long ago.

duckwa~~why do you keep saying it is all about the Gays and that small % ??

What part of 48% of the people do you not understand???

Can you answer that???

@ And alos I would give my right arm for a spell check here and now @

Ah, I see. You can use Leviticus to say that being gay is wrong, but all that other stuff, not so much.

The Bible was written 2000 years ago by people who thought the world was flat. I expect there were a few other misconceptions of reality that have since been cleared up as well.

OMG~~I just looked out the window and it is Snowing. Wow.

I guess no leaf blowing today. oh Yeah<<<

tedlick, you just can't help yourself can you? Sore losers are ugly losers. So now all of rural maine are stupid????????You're a piece of WORK. Notice the emphasis on WORK. Yes emphasis. The few strong areas for No votes were southern Maine, no doubt not native Mainers.

windfuture, no-- our Constitution knows what's best for everyone, and the fact that a majority of states have passed legislation (and even amendments to their state constitutions) that are unconstitutional will be addressed in due time.

I'm just living my life up here, calling it how I see it. You're an intolerant bigot that writes better than most of the other haters on here, and you LOVE to play the martyr when someone dares to show anger back at you.

ricts - I don't base my views on homosexuality being a sin on Leviticus wholly - though I can look to it for context. Romans, which was written after Christ's time is definitive for me. If Jesus defines marriage as a man and a woman, and human history backs it up, and our country has followed through with that since its inception, that's probably good enough for me.

So, if gay marriage is ever made legal, is marriage between parents and children, marriage between siblings.....going to be made legal too? If "everyone" is going to have equal marriage rights, then, you better be prepared to make it legal for "all". People use the excuse about how long ago the bible was written and this is 2009, times have changed. I have several versions of the bible and I cannot find it any of them where God spoke through his Word and said, "okay, people, in 2009 you can throw out my truths". I think it is all pretty simple--you believe in God's holy word or you don't.

you know at first I was disappointed by all the hateful things on this blog by both sides, but now it just seems to be really entertaining to me. I mean you have people debating the Bible on here, people are claimming that gays are coming to take over and destroy Maine. I'm really not sure what Electraglide is trying to say, but this is all very funny. I wish I could get all of you on a big stage and sell tickets, because it would be the greatest show on earth.

I have never in my life seen a group of people act so childish after not getting their way in an election. The sheer amount of name calling and personal attacks directed at people who voted Yes on 1 is mind blowing. No wonder the No on 1 people lost. They have the worst attitudes in the world. They're trying to teach tolerance by bullying and being intolerant of people who have different opinions than them. I'd like to see all these people bashing Mainers who voted Yes in the election to put their money where their mouth is and set up camp elsewhere. The people have Maine have spoken ! Stop shoving your agendas down our throats ! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !

Those Yes voters who are telling the Gay community to leave the state if they don't like it; One day it will be your son or daughter or grandchild who turns up gay... are you going to tell them to not visit or to leave if they don't like the laws of this state? I doubt it.

The G/L/B/T community does NOT have every right that married couples have. For example: they are not allowed to collect their partners Social Security, they are not allowed to use their partner as a tax credit, they are not allowed to have rights over their partners body/funeral should anything happen to them (without going through a legal process), not allowed to add them to their medical insurance policy in many instances (again without going through legal channels), they're not allowed any rights should their partner die (without going through the legal process), they have no rights to visit their partners in hospitals or nursing homes, and the list goes on and on.

If No on 1 voters don't want G/L/B/T folks to marry, then work toward changing legislation for them, so they can enjoy the same rights you have without having to fight for them.

For the poster who believes that many of the No on 1 voters don't work or are on welfare... what kind of a statement is that? Perhaps some of these folks are retired, or perhaps they had the day or week off from work. I would suspect the same for many of the Yes on 1 voters. I have to give all these folks (no matter which side they are on) credit for at least reading and giving their views on their side of the subject. That's what makes the U.S.A such a great place to live; we have freedom of speech, freedom of expression and the freedom to vote!

ConvivialVisits 10:15 AM~ Very well put!!

.

ElectraGlide, if you're not too wasted, I guess you could go cut and paste anything. Incoherent fits you well.

10:41 AM, tedlick.... It is interesting. There are a lot of details one could mine from the results. Say homeless people sleeping on the streets... interesting that there are far higher rates in the areas that voted "no". Maybe that equality should be focused somewhere else like everybody having a right to a roof over their head. Think about the good that 5 million could have done.

I really don't understand the on going personal attacks when it clearly didn't help. I would think that this would be the time to work for a compromise that will work for more people. You would still have some unhappy people on the extremes of both sides, but I would think there would be some middle ground where you could get some rights you deserve while others still hold on to some of their traditions. just saying.

windfuture, you're right, I should calm down a bit. I think you can understand my anger at the outcome of this vote, even if you can't understand why I have the audacity to think I deserve the equal protection under our laws that the Constitution mandates.

I know you've said you have no problem with me being gay, so calling you an intolerant bigot was a bit extreme. But I do stand by my statement that you'd gladly reinstate Jim Crow laws and turn blacks into second class citizens again, since that's exactly what you said a few days ago in another discussion.

At any rate, I'm sure we can have amicable conversations about other topics, because you do write your thoughts better than most here. On the issue of gay rights I understand we disagree, but it's not necessary for me to berate you for the shortcomings of so many others on here. You're one of the very few who reach a poor conclusion yet actually put thought into the issue, so you're further along a path to understanding equality than most others here.

conviv - thanks for keeping me in my place. Without you, I don't know what I'd do.

Check the definitions of intolerant and bigot - then look at your posts and search your feelings.

By the way, our Constitution was written by a bunch of rabble-rousing traitors sitting around in fancy shoes and powdered wigs, most of whom spoke with a British accent. (Couldn't help the comparison for those who disparage the Bible as being written by a bunch of weirdos 2000 years ago). Our country today would be a far cry from the vision our founding fathers had for it - and yet we are still the greatest country on Earth. Our Constitution reflects what our society decides is best - thus we have an Amendment process. It is a living document for a reason.

10:40 am, I would say that using scripture or invoking the Holy Spirit to support a political agenda is irreverent and blasphemous by subjugating God and His Word to politics (the Satanic Realm), and that publishing it here routinely for the all world to see on a public blog, and anonymously to boot, would undoubtedly constitute "the gravest [sin] that may be committed."

Yet we hear nothing but crickets from all the Good Christians who claim to post here. Why is that?

Teddy, you didn't really go there did you? Poor and uneducated bigots. They won because they were able to fool the stupid food stamp recipients?!? Could it be that the "Heartbeat of America", those who actually produce things for our economy, have a different view on life than you? The Egomaniacal and condescending way the NO campaign ran was and continues to be an insult. It isn't the YES side that thinks they're superior, it's the NO side who reveal their discriminatory views post by post!

"So now all of rural maine are stupid"

Not at all. That's not anywhere near what I said.

Demographically speaking, the areas that were the strongest voters for Yes on 1 are areas with lower education levels and lower standards of living. It's merely fact. Do the research yourself if you don't believe me.

http://www.census.gov/main/www/access.html

http://www.ers.usda.gov/StateFacts/ME.htm

http://www.maine.gov/portal/facts_history/statistics.html

If the fact somehow offends you, I cannot change that. It is what it is.

Maine was not an optimum state to be selected to be on the leading edge of change of social issues which are controversial, at least to some. Yes we used to be Republican and now we vote Democrat. That's not really because we're liberal or progressive. We're primarily concerned about survival (send the check, please), and we Mainers have learned that Democrats are more open minded about such things than Repubs. I honestly feel badly about hurting the feelings of gay people and their supporters, and appearing to be Neanderthal, barbarian, blasphemous, insensitive, ignorant, bigoted, hypocritical meanies. Maine was not a good state to pick for this cutting edge kind of experiment.

My ? ALL Day and Yesterday and the Days before That is Why Don`t People Understand What the US Constutition Says

It Says To ME that There Is To Be Seperation OF Church And State.

And FOR ALL Those Days the Bible Thumpers Have NOT Admitted That That Is A FACT

YES THIS IS the Big Theater of the Day for Another Fight for Freedom for ALL

By everyday People of THe Day ENJOY<<<< or Jump right IN<<

An Atheist's Manifesto

There is no god, or anything else that would qualify as supernatural.

Don't buy the lie. Faith is an excuse for not thinking. Belief in god is intellectual suicide.

Be brave, be strong, face the truth: we are animals here on this planet, mammals that live and die like any other mammal.

There is wonder and mystery and beauty in this world; don't waste this one life believing in some silly superstitious non-sense.

The atheist needs to prove nothing. The atheist accepts the natural world as it appears. It is the believer that must prove there is some invisible force, the proverbial old white dude in a white robe pushing all the buttons in some magic control room that no one can see.

In short, the burden of proof is on the believer.

Belief in god is dangerous; belief in god leads to war, death, pain and miserey; belief in god is a tool of oppression.

Be a zealot for the truth. It is a crime that people teach children that there is a god, and a heaven and a hell. To force a child to accept such non-sense is an insult to the intelligence and should be treated as child abuse.

Everytime the atheist makes people more aware of the possibility of atheism it is a victory. Anytime the atheist can plant a seed of doubt it is a victory.

The fact that a majority may believe in the supernatural is not an argument for the supernatural.

At one time the majority thought blacks inferior, thought the sun revolved around the earth, and even that the earth was flat.

The majority has a horrible track record.

And it is funny how the Xians love to threaten the non-believer with hell. No doubt Jesus would be proud.

Nevertheless, we must face the truth, again and again and again. Much damage has been done.

The truth: there is no god; jesus is some dead dude, not divine but no doubt charming, and just another bag of rotting flesh.

I encourage all believers to give up the shackles of faith, the bondage of belief, the cursed darkness of religion, and be born again into the sweetness of reason and light.

Be a hero. Be an atheist!

TurkeyTalker, please educate us on what exactly the welfare-rich rednecks of northern Maine contribute to our economy. Globalization has passed them by, there's not nearly the need for unskilled menial task labor any longer. I think if it weren't for the need for so many "stop/slow" sign holders on road construction projects, they wouldn't have any career opportunities at all.

They sure are good at putting an X on a piece of paper when it means they can strike back at us uppity queers down on the coast, I'll give you that. My tax dollars at work...

10:48 am, the problem is people have forgotten that they're not supposed to cherry-pick Bible verses according to whom they wish to stone! I thought Jesus sewed that one up a long time ago.

conviv - I never said I would reinstitute Jim Crow laws - I was having an exploratory discussion on the reasons behind their being passed. I was simply trying to make the point that day that not everyone acts out of hatred or bigotry, even if the end result of their actions (vote) may label them as having done so. I was merely trying to point out that not everyone who believes that marriage is for heterosexuals only necessarily hate homosexuals.

I don't think you're a bigot any more than I am. I appreciate your last post. I wish you many, many of the same rights to hospital visitation, estate planning, inheritance, property decisions, etc. I simply don't want it called "marriage." There is a sense of ownership of that term that strikes a very deep chord with me.

And no, I don't think me religious views should be forced on anyone else. You are free to disagree with my beliefs, though I'm sure you can understand my desire to try to convince you of them.

Peace.

10:50 am, you might try learning how to use the Google. It is very helpful when you need information about almost anything, say the Bible or word definitions. Did you know some words have multiple meanings? It's true! Check out dictionary.com and search on virtually any word that comes to mind. It's fascinating!

ElectraGlide: The Constitution prohibits the government from establishing a church or from preventing the free exercise of one's faith. It does not prevent anyone from applying his or her own moral principles in the conduct of their lives. This would include using their own moral compass in deciding how to vote on any issue. Everyone, that is people of faith and the faithless, are freely entitled to vote their conscience. Except for the 13th amendment, the Constitution limits goverment power not the people's.

anne - posting Scripture on a website, or even publicly shouting it, is not blasphemy. You need to recheck the defintion. Votes are cast for many reasons, based on many personal preferences, feelings, emotions, monetary concerns, and yes, even religious beliefs. Our founding fathers wrote some very beautiful prose regarding our Creator - at the same time they established freedom OF religion.

Scripture is not anonymous. Figure that one out.

NO>>(( realist38)) >>I cannot be bothered>>Just you and (( Duckwa))

Cannot seem to be bother to just answer simple facts presented to You

And that is being recorded here.

For all the Ones that can see Deflection for what it is

@@@ And That is All (( realist38 )) and (( Duckwa Do )) @@@

ConvivalVisits, the more you post your honest views concerning others in this State, the more convinced I am that the right side won. Dude, you are a bigot of the first order! I would love to see our economy turned around and would love to get into a lengthy discussion of how to get there, but I'll leave the long posts to others. But for you and Ted to play out this desparaging card is revealing of the character you have kept "in the closet" till now.

windfuture, you're welcome to your opinion on whether "marriage" should be the one word we feel is so unique that "separate but equal" institutions should be tried again in opposition to our Fourteenth Amendment requirements.

I'm not here to debate gay marriage any longer, because there's no point in debating it. Our rights will come, marriage will be available to me one day.

Peace to you, too.

ElectraGlide: re 11:09 I don't understand it either, but believe , with time, the U.S. Constitution will step in and equality and justice and fairness will ultimately prevail. Many rights are attained only after a long struggle, unfortunately.

Peace.

David889327: Really good and interesting commentary at 11:08. Many believed Maine would vote not to repeal it as they think of Maine people as being "not in your face" and "live and let live" and there are many people like that in Maine, as a lot of folks did vote NO on 1. But many Mainers, it seems, are resistant . I also believe some of this resistance (which manifests in other matters besides gay marriage) often works to their detriment in those parts of the state. (lack of progress in certain areas.) We can still maintain the beauty of this state and many of its positives and still be "on the cutting edge" or however one wants to put it.

Christyms 10:58 AM~ The laws concerning brothers, sisters and even 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins marrying is in place due to the very real fact that if these folks marry and have children together, the probability of them having offspring who are retarded or malformed is very high. We would have to enact laws for same sex couples (even though they will not have offspring together).

Again, if you folks aren't willing to allow the G/L/B/T folks to marry, then I suggest that you work diligently to make certain that they have the same rights that married people have.

To the posters who have stated that "ALL" folks who voted No on 1 are acting childish or are haters, etc... I for one voted No on 1, and I have not been childish, I am not a hater on either side of this issue, I don't bully others, nor do I express myself using any profanity, so please do not group all No voters into one category as I wouldn't do that to the Yes on 1 side. I frankly have seen firsthand, folks on both side of this issue use profanity, say hateful things, bully and be childish. If you don't care to continue reading the views of others, there are other articles which you can read and comment on.

ElectraGlide 10:53 AM~ This site has spell check. When posting, the words will be underlined in red, right click them and select the proper spelling. At least that's how it works on my computer.

ConvivialVisits 10:48 AM~ One can educate themselves on subjects before responding inappropriately. I know several folks who never finished high school or only went up to the 8th grade but are very articulate, have a great deal of common sense and can decipher right from wrong. I also know folks who are highly educated, but have absolutely no common sense and can't accomplish anything without a text book in their hand. As far as one being poor... often times, one has no choice due to circumstance beyond their control... I would never use one's monetary status against them.

OK CivilDiscourse I`ll bite>>What is the 13th amendment

TurkeyTalker, that's hilarious. I'm a bigot because I think you're a moron?

I wouldn't vote away your rights, no matter how moronically you exercise them. By every definition of the word, I'm not a bigot.

What I am showing you today is intolerance, not bigotry.

But I don't care if you understand me. Now that we have self-service pay-at-the-pump gas stations, I don't have to deal with you at all, unless it's the rare time I find myself at a fast-food drive-through. Then I'll be polite to you so you don't spit in my food.

I'd like to see education level on the same map, but I already know the result. Ignorant, uneducated hicks are against gay marriage. On the other hand, most educated people with the intellectual capacity to think for themsleves (and not blindly follow the instructions of some hateful religious bigot) and that have compasion for others are for gay marriage. It isn't where you live; it's how smart you are. That's all there is to it.

What is really impressive is the number of yes voters that are so upset over being called bigots or prejudiced or some of the other things you've been called - just look at the some of the things posted by yes voters: get out of the state, get back in the closet, "PUT ALL THESE GAY PEOPLE ON AN ISLAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN WERE THEY CAN'T CONTAMINATE THE REST OF THE WORLD, "Lets keep maine clean from fags", "Queer fag enabler", ``homos will lie through their teeth to make it appear everyone supports their abnormal perverted lifestyle`` or how about this one "Put them all back in that deep hole they came out of and shovel the dirt in.", or maybe this one "just where all the rest of these fags need to be along with the last fagg*t thrown into the penobscot river.Send them to hell early". This is just a sample of stuff that has been posted on the BDN - guess many of you missed this stuff - and some was posted by people posting here today.

John Adams :

If a majority are capable of preferring their own private interest, or that of their families, counties, and party, to that of the nation collectively, some provision must be made in the constitution, in favor of justice, to compel all to respect the common right, the public good, the universal law, in preference to all private and partial considerations... And that the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of history... To remedy the dangers attendant upon the arbitrary use of power, checks, however multiplied, will scarcely avail without an explicit admission some limitation of the right of the majority to excercise sovereign authority over the individual citizen... In popular governments [democracies], minorities [individuals] constantly run much greater risk of suffering from arbitrary power than in absolute monarchies..

BTW>>CivilDiscourse>>What is that Bil of Rights Thang

BTW..CivilDiscourse>>I have always appriciated your Discourse<

I knew it wouldn't take long for the BDN to write a story implying that the rural areas of the state are filled with uneducated simpletons "clinging to their religion and guns" right? I am very proud to live in a rural state surrounded by hardworking self sufficient folks. Please take a ride through any heavily populated area of Maine or anywhere for that matter and tell me your in a bastion of intellectuals. The BDN has an utter disdain for anyone they view as inferior based on economic or social pretense (usually false). I wouldn't trade a cabin in the woods for the utter filth that infects urban areas.

The real problem is government involvement in every facet of life. What you have is two sides fighting to use government force to push their views onto others. People expect the government to provide everything. The government doesn't give you rights. Rights are inherent. Why should I have to apply for a license to get married? Stop legitimizing an illegitimate government. Take government out of the equation, if two people want to form a contract between each other and have a ceremony, it is no business of some bureaucrat in Augusta or the citizenry. Start holding the government accountable for their actions. Those in Augusta have no legal authority to operate outside of the Maine State Constitution. Nowhere in that document does it say that the government has the authority to legitimize peoples love for each other. my two cents.

Anita Bryant was fired as spokesperson for the Florida Orange Growers Association after her attacks on gay peoples civil rights. Gay people and those who support gay human rights boycotted Florida Orange Juice nationwide. There is already talk of boycotting Aroostook produce. Nothing like making capitalism work for you but I hope it doesn’t happen. Better to show them that we all support their agriculture and some of us are gay than to put them out of business.

the gays are their own worst enemy

everytime they open their mouths it makes more people get up and vote no

Lest also get one thing very clear.

It is closer to 75-25% against it

100% of the gays and supporters voted tuesday where less then 40% of the people against it did.

it is about 75-25 against it in the state and will never get passed

Separation between church and state! Why do we not follow this? The church seems to butt into issues that they are just not suppose to be involved in. Welcome to 2009 people, the church no longer runs government. People practice so many different forms of religion! Christianity isn’t the one and only true religion. This was a civil rights issue not a marriage issue. Marriage is a word associated with a religious ceremony. If I want to get married, I head to my local place of worship and get hitched. What if I don’t have any religious views or am not affiliated with a religious organization? I head down to the local court house, not to get married but, to have a civil union ceremony. Marriage now a day is just a legal document nothing more. A piece of paper with two signatures claiming we are entitled to each others crap and that we are going to commit to each other through the highs and the lows. This is progress and it can’t be stopped. It is the new generations fight. Just like blacks and women having the same rights as white males being the fight before us. It will happen for the gay community it just will take time, as all great and meaningful causes do. Children read in history books about Dr. Martin Luther King and the fight for blacks to have civil rights. Women’s rights took them from 1848 to 1920 in this country. The same will happen for the gay community years from now. We have found though years of study that history repeats itself in one way or another. It will happen in this case as well. All people should be equal and have the same rights!

FREERADICAL, the BDN is simply printing how the vote turned out precinct by precinct.

It's folks who can look at that data who are drawing the correct conclusion that it was uneducated hicks who won the day for Mutty and Emrich's holy war.

As for "self sufficient folks"... really? Why is my money being sent up to northern Maine to pay for food stamps for these yokels, then? What self-respecting industry is moving TO that area of Maine and not AWAY from it?

I dare say that there would be some good businesses moving in to take advantage of SKILLED labor if it existed up there. But honestly-- we have machines now that do a far higher quality job than the unskilled laborers of "the other Maine".

ConviviailVisits: You are about as far from a bigot as it comes. Some people don't know what they are talking about! And this whole talk of "native Mainers" is ridiculous. Join the present age. People do not all live in the same states they grew up in anymore - nowhere, not just in Maine. They move for many different reasons, sometimes because they marry someone from a different state, for example. I wonder what cave some of these folks live in that talk about everything should be about "native" Mainers. They do not talk like that in other states. Maybe that is part of the problem here in Maine, re the economy and other areas.

Drinky: You said it at 10:51 AM

ConvivialVisits: Some of those folks who have not been exposed to very much and have lived in somewhat isolated areas (and maybe some do feel the world has passed them by) are easy targets of fear. They are not really familiar with some people and so it is easy to sway them with fear and suspicion. But those days are somewhat numbered; as time goes on, there will be less and less of that kind of mentality. Hey, I lived in Aroostook county for 5 yrs in the 80's (after growing up in Conn.) and found the people up there to be great and very generous (altho' I lived on an Air Force Base still had exposure to "natives"). I would not want to live in such an isolated place but it had its good points as any other. When I saw the vote results yesterday, though, from up there, I thought , no, I would not want to live up there any longer!!

Amazed, I do distinguish between uneducated and ignorant. There are plenty of uneducated people I've met in life who are very intelligent, and I treat them with the respect they deserve.

There are plenty of hard working people who are poor, and I have no disrespect for them either. There's nothing to be ashamed of in poverty.

It's the folks who wallow in their ignorance, and lash out at those of us who have decided to achieve something with our lives, who are small minded hicks deserving of my derision.

And by the looks of it, they have great numbers in northern Maine and Washington County. I'm fine with that— they're usually too stupid to realize I'm one of those damnable queers they hate so much, and they appreciate that I'm a good tipper and treat me well.

siggyz~~~11:10~~~I liked that one for a Fact yes mr / mrs I sure enough Did !!!!!

I believe in Mans and Womens Spirit of what is Good or what is Evil

What is Right and What is Wrong

Yep how to get and maintain Peace that would I be about.

I know that is hard to understand for the non-beleivers of what Peace IS<<<<

ConvivalVisits, you can huff and puff all you want but I know you are nothing more than a preening pigeon, and produce about as much! Thanks for the slam but you couldn't be any farther from describing me. All your power is in your volume of disparaging words, and in the end they are all fantasy and smoke. What you are showing me today is that you are dillusional believing that you are superior to others, and for someone to cry about discrimination then mock those who disagree is hypocracy defined! So keep hiding in your mother's basement furiously typing at your Mac wishing you had a prius so you can go get some medicinal weed, and we'll continue to take care of you.

11:34 AM, hokydad, remarkable, since gay people are only 2 point 5 % of the population. I wonder why the others voted in favor of human rights for them. Gloating over a winning a referendum levied against 2.5% of the population is shameful, and it underscores the need for the Supreme Court to take over administering constitutional rights in this country. Because some are fighting for their lives, gay people get more politically astute with every setback. Fasten your seatbelt.

Free2bee 11:29 AM~ Excellent reminder of the many No on 1 voters who are against marriage for the G/L/B/T community who have spoken out with hateful words. I have been appalled by words from both sides actually, but especially from those proclaiming that they are Christians. Quite frankly, many of the Yes on 1 voters have made it very clear that Gay's can leave this state and take their business elsewhere... boycotting would be a great way to see the repercussions of their statements.

WilliamDS 11:33 AM~ Boycotting is generally an excellent way to help bring people together when issues can't be resolved or agreed up in a civil manner. Because there is so much hatred toward the G/L/B/T community and there has been no efforts made to resolve their need for rights, the Yes on 1 voters may suffer great economic consequences for their lack of action.

CountyGirl1 11:36 AM~ I agree!! Whatever happened to "Separation of church and state? One does not have to be a Christian to get married... so obviously marriage is not just a thing for Christians only.

How strange that the "No on #1" advocates profess to be so very tolerant of those others with views differing from theirs and yet refer to anyone with a Christian, Biblical belief as "bible bumping uneducated hicks"! Apparently that "tolerance" endings where the Bible and it's followers begin. As to the "uneducated hicks" designation, I beg to differ with you. My two brothers are both college professors, one in the UM system and one in another state. One has a double doctorate. My sister and I are both college grads, she with a masters degree in Business administration and myself with only a baccalaureate nursing degree (I was the ignoramus of the family). I can assure you that each one of us, with the exception of the one out-of-stater (only because he wasn't here to vote), voted "Yes on #1". It isn't an issue of education or intelligence. The issue is moral values. Regardless, as some else said before me, I'd rather believe what I believe and be wrong than to have your beliefs and be wrong. I have lost nothing, you have everything to lose!

11:18 am, you need to re-check the definition. And you know what I meant by anonymous. You just did it again -- feigning superiority and using "scripture" to do it. Pathetic.

TurkeyTalker, what you don't seem to understand is, you don't get to agree or disagree on matters of human rights. The constitution is the guide for those issues and a flaw in Maine's law allowed the majority to legally abusive 2.5% of the population. (That's 2 and one half people out of every 100) You will not have the "people's veto" for long after the courts deal with it. It's the same with the states that don't have a "people's veto" that have passed laws banning gay marriage before their legislators passed it, a preemptive strike.

Sadmama: That was a GREAT post. Thank you!! : )

Sadmama, my tolerance ended when the ignorant hicks of rural Maine saw fit to restrict my rights.

You may be the exception to the rule, having educated family members who cling to hateful religious dogma instead of bigoted fear of 'those from away' but it matters not to me. Our Supreme Court will see to it that we have our equality one day, Maine just showed the nation that it's not really "the way life should be" after all.

Yes fight my little puppets, fight and dance for your master

Sadmama 11:49 AM~ Morally it is wrong to discriminate against a sector of society who is born being the way they are. We have laws against discrimination for those who are mentally and physically handicapped, and there should be laws helping those who have been born not fitting into the laws of the heterosexual community also.

It has been a well studied and established scientific fact that G/L/B/T folks were born this way and cannot change their thinking, much in the same manner than a heterosexual cannot switch over to being G/L/B or T.

11:49 (( Sadmama ))~~Just my humble opinion, but just goes to show you a Spade is a Spade just the facts speak.

And how we show what we believe / and what how we Vote about what is ( Equallity )

I saw it on every Vote no ON # 1 (( SIGN )) didn`t YOU???? (( EQUALITY ))

How YOU feeling about YOUR vote NOW today.

William - based on the election results, you'd have to boycott products for 12 out of 16 counties in this state, not just Aroostook. No more blueberries, potatoes, apples, most lobster and scallops, maple syrup, etc. I'm with you - let's keep supporting Maine ag. Boycotts have little effect.

Amazed, that's a great point you made to Sadmama. I should temper my anger about the outcome on this vote, because most of these ignorant hicks were born into their situation, and have never been challenged to rise to anything better than an unskilled food stamp cashing moron.

To everyone who has been taking issue with my outbursts today, you have my sincere apologies. I'm sure many of your parents had no idea what the awful outcome would be when they were guzzling Allen's while you were gestating in the womb.

ConvivialVisits 11:56 AM~ I believe using the words "Hicks, ignorant and Northern Maine or Rural Maine" becomes a very personal matter for those who are from those areas who did not vote No on 1 ... just an observation. Perhaps a change in words would be beneficial. I am a No on 1 Voter who is originally from a rural area in Maine and I am not uneducated... my stance on this issue has always been equality for those who are not like the heterosexuals... I understand your stance completely, but like I said... perhaps a change in words would be in order.

Amazed - yet we have laws that prevent most mentally handicapped folks from getting married. Isn't that discriminatory?