I feel that all vaccines that will be made available in the future, should only be made available to those with underlying medical conditions. It's very obvious that these are the folks who are at highest risk from H1N1 and perhaps any other flu.

My sincere condolences to the families of these folks who have passed on.

Wonders why after five deaths from H1N1 of people with underlying medical conditions that Maine CDC has not released what these conditions were? I think it is time to stop saying that children are at a higher risk from H1N1, I don't think the data supports this opinion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/12/AR2009111210635.html

People are dying! And we still can't get our flu shots! I'm getting very anxious about this. Why don't our doctors have the flu vaccine? We haven't even been able to get our regular flu shots yet!

The reporting on this issue has been moving way ahead of reality. And while one can only venture theories on the reasoning, government agecies have woven important public health issues into other agendas and have done a disservice to the American people. The figures quoted from "meowbag"s Washington Post piece above are again only estimates by another governmental source driven by political interests. The article itself states, "All of the estimates come with substantial uncertainty." This is certainly true since the CDC and W.H.O. have repeatedly stated that we are to assume that ALL flu-like symptoms be considered H1N1. The article even goes on to suggest, "The new estimate includes deaths that occurred outside hospitals, patients who tested negative for H1N1 but almost certainly had it, and other overlooked cases." That is about as inconclusive as one can get and is an extreme reach. Although we may certainly experience a more agressive flu season, we currently have no way to accurately estimate any H1N1 transmission rate beyond actual testing in local communites. Moreover, the W.H.O., contrary to most physicians and health professionals, now suggests pushing the use of antivirals like Tamiflu (oseltamivir) -- especially to "low income countries" (i.e., poor third-world nations). These antivirals are commonly reserved for special cases (i.e., the oft-reported "underlying medical conditions") and in a very limited way, as they are not well tolerated and are prone to resistance with widespread use. Swiss pharmaceutical company Roche (makers of Tamiflu), is the clear winner here, among the other major pharmaceutical giants who enrich themselves with the aid of government mandates. To advertise their "benevolence," Roche has begun offering their services at "reduced prices" to 72 countries. How wonderful.

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The problem with the current CDC statistics:

1. They stopped testing for H1N1 in July and began "assuming" that all flu's were H1N1. In reality, many who have gotten the flu, actually haven't had H1N1 at all, they've had other types of flu viruses.

2. They CDC has been grouping H1N1 in with the regular flu statistics since April of 2008, when in fact, the regular statistics for flu's are always done from October to April each year.

3. H1N1 should have it's own set of statistics.

4. Flu viruses should be done on a "week by week" basis, then "month by month", "to date" and finally "by year" according to the "type of flu" one has.

4. Statistics for each gender, each age group, those with underlying medical conditions, those who were deemed healthy prior to the flu, babies under 1 year of age, children over 1 and up according to age, and pregnant women should all have their own set of statistics.

There needs to be a complete overhaul for statistics, and how they are done at the CDC.

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BillORight 8:04 AM~ I noted the same statements you noted in that article along with several other very contradictory statements. We cannot "scare" the American public with "assumed" and very flawed information.

I feel that our government is utilizing flu season to test their abilities, should a real emergency arise in this country and I also feel that perhaps other countries are following suit. Just my opinion.

The information that others post, be it good information or bad information, is always helpful. The information show's what we are all being fed. We are intelligent people and can decipher B.S. from reality. Like I said before, I do believe there is a sector of our society who needs this flu shot and it never hurts to be diligent, but we must weigh the consequences both short term and long term.

Um...they most certainly are still testing. My 9 year old was tested. I personally know 3 people who were tested just in the last week aside from my own child. There wasn't ANY cases of the regular seasonal flu in Maine until the week of October 23. They were testing at that time and all of the flu was H1N1.

I REALLY wish you would stop posting misinformation.

My niece was not tested after having a fever for three days. This happened last week. So I question who is giving out the misinformation.

Perhaps your niece's parents should consider a different pediatrician or take her to the hospital. My 9 year old was tested at EMMC 9 days ago. Two of my friends' daughters were tested in the last week...one only a few days ago. Another friend was tested 4 or 5 days ago. SOME doctors aren't testing, but MANY are.

She was taken to the hospital. I believe St Josephs. Also I questioned our school superintendent and he said testing is not being done in most cases so we do not have actual numbers of H1N1 cases.

The CDC stated that they stopped testing in July for this virus. If you listen to the following news segment put out by Washington Unplugged on October 25, 2009.

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1360%3Acdc-guesstimated-h1n1-cases-and-refused-cbs-freedom-of-information-act-reques&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105%E3%80%88=en

This same information has been given by other government, media and medical sources too. (ie: CDC)

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/diagnostic_testing_public_qa.htm

The information that I post is what is out there for all of us to read, as well as information that I get from my medical sources in the medical community. The tests that are being done aren't totally reliable either. We've had some H1N1 patients turn up negative on tests, when in fact they were H1N1 positive. We've also had others turn up positive when in fact they were negative.

This is a quote from the CDC site that I posted from above:

QUOTE: Most people with 2009 H1N1 have had mild illness and have not needed medical care or antiviral drugs, and the same is true of seasonal flu. (More information is available on What To Do If You Get Sick this flu season.) Most people with flu symptoms do not need a test for 2009 H1N1 because the test results usually do not change how you are treated. UNQUOTE

QUOTE: Rapid tests vary in their ability to detect flu viruses. Depending on the test used, their ability to detect 2009 H1N1 flu can range from 10% to 70%. This means that some people with a 2009 H1N1 flu infection have had a negative rapid test result. (This situation is called a false negative test result.) Rapid tests appear to be better at detecting flu in children than adults. None of the rapid tests currently approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) are able to distinguish 2009 H1N1 flu from other flu viruses. UNQUOTE

The information that is put out there for us to read is unreliable at best. Centuramyst~ We are being told one thing by our supposed government and medical sources, and yet another is being done. Overall, they are not testing most patients and they are "assuming" that most have H1N1according to the CDC. As you can see from the second quote that I posted directly from the CDC site; "NONE of the rapid tests are able to distinguish 2009 H1N1 flu from other flu viruses".

If she had of been taken to EMMC with a high fever and other symptoms they probably would have tested her. If her only symptom was a fever that might be why she wasn't tested. My daughter's throat hurt so badly that she couldn't swallow and could hardly breathe. She needed a breathing treatment, got 3 different chest and neck xrays. The test is VERY unpleasant. They take a tiny Q-tip and stick it so far up the person's nose it looks like they are going to hit your brain. If the only symptom is a fever and the person is breathing okay they will be less likely to put the kid through the screening because it is VERY unpleasant.

There is a lot of information out there that you can't take out of context, or only post a piece of. For instance... most rapid tests for flu DO pick up 2009 H1N1 the majority of the time, but cannot distinguish it from other seasonal flus. Some products are better than others. If you look further at that information where those stats come from, you'll find that the seasonal flu is picked up from those same rapid tests 20%-100% of the time which is not much better than for swine flu. This is all based on limited information, and many things can influence the results, such as sample type and quality. To get the subtype, they have to do a test called rRT-PCR. This is not a simple blood test but requires some laboratory work with special ingredients, equipment and time. If a doctor gets a negative on the rapid, but still suspects the flu, then they may be quicker to assume it's H1N1 because of the sensitivity questions with the tests, NOT just say no flu, go home. They may recommend further testing. If the first test comes out positive, then the rapid test is enough. It's not an end-all, be-all. Give the doctors some credit. They will weigh the difference between whether any testing or further testing will change their treatment. The CDC is not asking for the tracking anymore, so doctors will not automatically test every suspected case anymore, unless they feel they need more information to base treatment on.

Since virtually 95%, or greater, of the samples sent to the CDC were coming back positive for 2009 H1N1 subtype, they have now determined that it is the predominant flu subtype circulating in the US, and there was no more information to be gained from continuing the test for TRACKING. That's what the CDC has stopped doing... testing every suspected flu case for TRACKING. They ARE still testing and watching for changes in the virus. They are now putting their efforts into monitoring the virus progress being vigilant and watching for pockets of increased severity. That's the biggest risk now, that the virus will mutate into something worse. Most cases are still mild, but that can always change.

Testing is still being done when there is a question of whether it is flu or something else. The girl above with the swollen glands and swallowing problems should indeed be tested to determine just what she has... flu or something else like mononucleosis, or strep throat, or something else. It's important to know because the treatments are very different. But if all symptoms indicate that it is flu, the treatment will not change, therefore no need to know if it's seasonal or otherwise. Also, doctors do use their judgement and if someone comes in not meeting the criteria for being considered moderate to severe flu symptoms they are apt to send you home to wait it out. Many people demand to know even though they are relatively not that sick.

BB84SS 11:09 AM~ Excellent information. Thank you.

BB84SS...exactly! My daughter was tested for everything except for Mononucleosis. The strep test was negative. The xrays looked fine so there was no indication of pneumonia or bronchitis from those. The rapid test came back negative but I was aware of the high rate of false negatives. My daughter doesn't have asthma and had actually never had the flu in her entire 9 years. They essentially had me treat her as if she had the flu due to her symptoms fitting H1N1. She had very bad headaches, cough, extremely sore throat, difficulty swallowing, body aches and sporadic fever ranging from barely above normal to just under 103 degrees. She missed a full week of school. She still has a bit of a cough but otherwise she feels better and has since Wednesday. She hasn't had a fever since Tuesday.

Centaurmyst - I'm glad your daughter is recovering now! It sounds like she definitely is a case in point.... rapid flu test was negative, therefore do other tests to rule out the other obvious possibilities, and when those were negative, assume it's indeed 2009 H1N1 and treat accordingly. I'm hoping we've seen the worst of it now in the state as more school children get vaccinated. Getting them vaccinated will also go a long way in slowing the spread as well, which benefits us all. I almost wish they could have closed all schools for a little longer over Thanksgiving vacation and get more kids vaccinated and give time for the immunity to kick in.

That's another piece of information I haven't seen... How far are they with the vaccinations in school-age children? Our area schools had their clinics in the last 2 weeks, but I haven't heard much about other areas.

Sore Throat

Sore throat is commonly present with a cold.

Sore throat is not commonly present with the H1N1 flu.

Here are a list of symptoms that accompny the H1N1 virus according to the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/guidance_homecare.htm

QUOTE: 2009 H1N1 flu virus infection (formerly known as swine flu) can cause a wide range of symptoms, including fever, cough, sore throat, runny or stuffy nose, body aches, headache, chills and fatigue. Some people may also have vomiting and diarrhea. People may be infected with the flu, including 2009 H1N1, and have respiratory symptoms without a fever. UNQUOTE

The fact of the matter is that most people who don't have underlying medical conditions will not get gravely ill.

TruthinMaine...my daughter didn't just have the kind of sore throat you get with a cold. She woke up at 5am clinging to her throat because she could not swallow and was struggling to breathe. And you are quite wrong...a very bad sore throat most certainly IS one of the main symptoms of H1N1. It is a respiratory flu and that is why so many people are dying because they are developing secondary issues like pneumonia and can't breathe. I really wish the anti-vaccine crowd would STOP spreading misinformation.

http://www.flu.gov/individualfamily/about/symptoms/index.html

* fever *

* cough

* sore throat

* runny or stuffy nose

* body aches

* headache

* chills

* fatigue

* sometimes diarrhea and vomiting

*It’s important to note that not everyone with flu will have a fever. I copied this from the CDC so you do have sore throat with H1N1

I don't believe anyone is spreading misinformation. I believe that there is and abundance of conflicting information out there, which is making it very difficult for anyone to decipher what is true and what is not true. We are getting conflicting information within the CDC and even Maine.gov sites.

As one poster stated a week or so ago, she read that there would be vaccines "without Thimerosal" in them, and got that off a .gov website explaining where vaccines would be given, only to get the information in her hand, which stated that the nasal sprays would not contain Thimerosal, but the injections her child was getting, would contain Thimerosal.

The information I was given, said that we would be getting some vaccines with Thimerosal in them and to ask for those without Thimerosal if that's what you wanted. Yet other sites claimed there would be no Thimerosal or Squalene in them.

Like any other government run project, there is no clarity in any of the information... and the government has people running in 40 different directions. This is a prime example of why we don't need government run healthcare!!!!

While no one questions that H1N1 is coursing through our flu season with other influenza viruses, it remains to be seen what motivates our government regarding widespread H1N1 vaccination programs and other intrusive "emergency" measures. Actually, the CDC has been quoted as saying they have been working toward a more comprehensive pandemic program for some time; the current version now highly integrated into the Department of Homeland Security. Providing templates for emergency preparedness is one thing; an out-of-balance federal government driving excessive policies just short of mandates is another. Especially when all this is woven into a police and military structure equipped with measures bordering on Martial Law. The territory ahead is clearly being re-defined under the guise of a public health service to promote more governmental control and fast-tracked programs with little in the way of proper public debate and review. The Massachusetts Pandemic Response Bill 2028 (as written) is a terrifying look into our future. We have quantum-leaped from "there to here" in the face of the following facts:

1) The efficacy and safety of influenza vaccines are clearly not in the range touted for healthy individuals by the pharmaceutical companys and governmental agencies that promote them. This has been known for years based on studies in epidemiology and virology outside the areas of government influence. The issues of adjuvants and various other additives which have been addressed extensively, are a small subset of this larger equation. The most effective preventative measures are non-pharmachological.

2) Influenza vaccines have been re-defined as being "medically necessary" rather than of a "practical" nature by pharma and federal agencies.

3) The W.H.O. has re-defined the nature of a "pandemic" by dropping 1) high morbidity rates, and 2) high mortality rates as prerequisites, relying solely on the transmission rate of any particular agent.

4) A controlled media continues to push unbalanced reports lacking clear frames of reference. Example: SARS and H5N1 (avian flu) are far more virulent by a wide margin, yet they received less CDC and media coverage than H1N1, and are subsequently viewed as less threatening by the general public. (Pew Research Report, Sept 3, 2009). This is a serious disservice to the public, as SARS (a coronavirus) has yet to be figured out by the medical community and the threat is still extant.

5) Virology 101: Beyond having a "unique" viral code (swine, avian, human), there is ample evidence that the current H1N1 strain was derived from the yet unexplained emergence of the H1N1 in 1977, whose viral genomes nearly replicated those of the 1950 virus. This fact presents a big problem to virologists, as it is nearly impossible for a virus to emerge relatively "unscathed" genetically over a 27 year timeframe without developing far more genetic differences within a natural environment -- the conclusion being that it was isolated and then released (either by intent or accident) in 1977, which then created a pandemic over the northern hemisphere. Those in the field agree that this is the only scientifically plausible explanation. (www.virology.ws). An accident scenario is highly unlikely due to required bio-safety levels (3 or 4) in qualified labs. So who is messing with viral DNA, and for what purpose? One can extrapolate from there.

Chosing an influenza vaccination is a personal matter, and each of us will deal with our health issues in ways we deem most responsible. But, taken in a wider context, unless we are being "prepped" for some other Machiavellian shoe to fall on the horizon, the H1N1 "crisis" does not comport with the present reality and should be considered highly suspect by the general public. At some point our choices may not be of our own making.

A VERY minute amount of Thimerosal is put in MULTI- DOSE vials of vaccine ONLY. It is federal LAW in the US that a preservative like Thimerosal be put in multi dose vials because if it isn't there is a high risk of bacteria or fungi contaminating the vaccine which WOULD kill people. A multi-dose vial is one where the needle is put into the vial and some of the vaccine is extracted. The same vial of vaccine is used for more than one person's dose. If the only vaccine in shot form available is a multi-dose vial then people WANT a preservative that kills any bacteria or fungi because if it doesn't have that it violates US law. Thimerosal has been used for years and years and there has been NO problems that have ever been proven to result from it aside from minor irritation at the site of the injection.

There is NO squalene in ANY US flu shots.

BOR 3:02 PM~ Excellent info and valid points! I feel that vaccines are a personal matter as well. Many are not aware of the toxins put in these vaccines, and we need for those who are aware, to educate the general lay public. Everyone should be aware of the various adjuvants in all medications that could do more harm than good and ONLY THEN make an informed decision. Sometimes these adjuvants don't cause immediate harm, but do have long term side effects. If one believes that they can be injected with chemicals and poisons and not be affected in any way shape or for, they are sadly mistaken. Play an active roll in your health, both long-term and short-term.

I agree that our choices are ours now... but may not be in the future. It is so important that we watch our government and their actions very closely.

obama care is so wonderful

On 11/15/09 at 7:41 AM, sebec39 wrote: Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

People are dying! And we still can't get our flu shots! I'm getting very anxious about this. Why don't our doctors have the flu vaccine? We haven't even been able to get our regular flu shots yet!

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Settle down, you will survive....

I have a stinking suspicion some of you are hypochondriacs.... Just reading some of the posts..

I think it is important to remember that the people in Maine who died from this had serious underlying health conditions. I do not mean to minimize any concern, but do not feel there is anything to panic about. (in my opinion.) I think high risk groups should get the vaccine, if they wish to. I myself am just being cautious and pro- active about my health (as usual.....) but am not at all panicked about it.

I'm certainly not a hypochondriac. I do, however, have two kids that always get extremely ill with the flu EVERY year. My eldest son has actually had to be hospitalized before due to severe dehydration. He is also prone to pneumonia and has been ever since he was a baby. Up until he was about 12 years old he had to use an inhaler every time he got even a mild cold. The other kid who gets very sick also happens to be 7 months pregnant and due to being unable to get the vaccine until 6 days ago she got very sick already. She went into premature labor that thankfully could be stopped in the hospital. However, now her cervix is soft and if she gets sick again and gets dehydrated the contractions will return and they might not be able to stop premature labor a second time. My 9 year old, who has NEVER had the flu her entire life and who is very healthy just got over what was most likely H1N1. She had to go to the emergency department and get a breathing treatment because she was struggling to breathe. When we got her there the doctor told me if that happened again to call an ambulance. Many of our friends are sick with the flu, several of them with VERIFIED H1N1, including babies and children. Yes, most people recover fine from H1N1 but even those who do are being knocked out of commission for about a week. That's a lot of missed school and work and it's incredibly widespread in the Bangor area. Not everyone gets paid sick days or can afford to miss work. So yes, it is a big deal to a lot of people and those who have been lucky enough NOT to catch it really don't want to. It's incredibly annoying to hear people on here discourage people to get vaccinated. Everyone who doesn't get vaccinated are very likely to get H1N1 and they will be out there in public touching doorknobs and breathing over the produce in the grocery stores where the rest of us have to shop. Frankly, I don't appreciate that very much, especially when I have children who are at a very high risk from having significant complications if they get sick. I'm sure those people on here who are reading this who can't get vaccines but want them don't appreciate a lot of what they are reading, either.

Centaurmyst , throttle back, did I mention your name?????

cher...the problem is that many people with serious underlying conditions are unable to get the vaccine because it's not available to them yet. In the meantime, misinformation is being spread to parents who COULD get their kids vaccinated and help reduce the spread of H1N1 in schools. A lot of parents aren't vaccinating their kids because of this misinformation going around. That puts all those adults with underlying health problems at an elevated risk because a lot of the people who HAVE had a chance to get vaccinated aren't getting it and are out there spreading it around. I think it's so selfish, inconsiderate and irresponsible to put other people at risk. Proof has been shown repeatedly that there isn't squalene in the US flu shots but some people keep on claiming there is. The fact that the trace amounts of Thimerosal in only SOME of the injectable vaccine makes it SAFER so people don't get vaccine contaminated with bacteria or fungi doesn't matter to these people. They would rather have people die from contaminated vaccines, apparently. It's SO frustrating.

Nope, Tele...you didn't. I was simply illustrating WHY so many people are as concerned as they are. Just having asthma is considered a serious underlying medical condition. A lot of children have asthma. Their parents are scared for them and that's pretty normal.

Centaurmyst: I understand where you are coming from. I was only speaking for myself, of course.....I cannot speak for another person or family and their situation . Yes, asthma would be something that could be troublesome and worse with this, I understand. My kids are now in their 20's (so I do not have real young ones any longer). I would likely be seeing this a bit differently if I still had young children at home. I think things will be all right....and I hope that the vaccine is there for those who wish or need to have it. I am not going into crowded places as much lately (no inconvenience.) I use those wipes at the supermarkets, etc. etc. No, I know that alone does not guarantee anything, but it does help. I just am not panicked but I cannot speak for others who are very concerned, and frightened even.

We all have different vantage-points. One comes from having children that get ill easily and wants the vaccines, another comes from not wanting toxic adjuvants injected into their body or the bodies of their loved ones, another comes from having been injected by adjuvants that harmed them and many others at the same time, etc... ect...

The problem here is:

1. When the vaccines were given out, they weren't given to those who are the sickest first. Instead they were given to healthy and probably some unhealthy children first.

2. The information that has been put out there by the CDC, and .Gov sites have been unclear and not always reliable. They have changed their information and have not been on target 100% of the time.

3. Some may want this vaccine, but others are leery and would like to see changes made to be certain that everyone is getting safe vaccines. Force the pharmaceutical companies to make the appropriate changes so that everyone benefits from vaccines and so that no-one or very few people, are permanently injured because of them.

Those who don't want vaccines have some pretty good reasons for not wanting them. We all want to be disease free, and I don't for one second believe that anyone wants to infect another person, but it becomes a matter of pay now or pay later. Some of you may have never experienced the long term side effects of vaccines, and I'm so happy for you. However, for others... this has been a living nightmare that doesn't seem to end. We want ALL children and adults to be safe... not just a select few.

For those who are in a high risk category, and can't get your vaccines, you can thank the CDC for this flub up.

If you take the list of ingredients that are in the current H1N1 vaccine, and exclude Thimerosal, there are still ingredients that are toxic in the vaccine.

Centaurmyst , I hear you... Keep up the good work...

Atleast you care,,....

As far as the multi-vial doses of H1N1 vaccine, they don't need to be used, the single vial doses would be fine.

Man, alot of experts here . If your sick call your doctor he or she is the expert and the one you should trust with the correct information. And by the way if someone in you house is sick and you have someone coming to repair something telephone , cable, etc call and reschedule for another day.

Amazed...there are NO adjuvants in the H1N1 vaccines! I have repeatedly posted proof that there isn't so why do you keep implying that there are? This is the kind of thing that is so annoying. If you are going to complain about Thimerosal that is ONLY in the multi-dose vials of the injection then you should at least ALSO post WHY it is used. They used it in those multi-dose vials because before they did they vaccinated a bunch of people with multi-dose vials that was contaminated by bacteria and those people DIED from the bacteria contamination. That is why they started using the trace amounts of Thimerosal. It is also US LAW that they use a preservative. Thimerosal is the safest preservative that has been used for decades without a problem other than some people having redness or being sore at the injection site. Trying an alternative preservative could prove to be harmful.

Single dose vials take longer to produce, require more packaging and slows production and shipment of much needed vaccine.

I surmised that everyone knew why Thimerosal was being used... we've discussed it a million times and I myself, did post it quite sometime ago. I am well aware of why it's been put in the vaccines... but what you don't seem to understand is the fact that the pharmaceutical companies need to find safe alternatives. How many times to I need to make my point to you, before you get it?

I want to see SAFE vaccines out there and so many others!!! END OF STORY!!!

I'm sure glad you're not head of the CDC, although you'd fit right in Centauramyst. You have tunnel vision!!!

Centaurmyst , I do apologize if I sounded kind of rude, didn't mean too.

No Tele...you didn't offend me. I was only trying to help you see why so many people are as concerned as they are about this.

Amazed...I don't have tunnel vision. I'm just trying to do what I feel is the right thing to do. I don't agree with the way you are trying to scare people into not getting vaccinated. It's not personal...I'm just trying to counter what you are saying because I feel strongly that you are spreading misinformation about the H1N1 vaccines. Again...it's not personal at all. I just don't want people who really should get vaccinated or get their kids vaccinated to choose NOT to protect themselves based on what you keep posting when I view what you write on this subject to be very misleading.

Centaurmyst~ I completely understand your thoughts and concerns about those who NEED the vaccines being able to get them. I get that, and I too, feel that those who NEED them should have them, and I've made that statement several times in my posts.

However, folks are not getting adequate and true information from pharmaceutical companies, and I take this whole thing as seriously as you do. I think we are both very passionate about our beliefs regarding vaccines, but I truly do look at both sides of this issue and I feel that people NEED to be educated and then make informed decisions. I am not trying to "SCARE" anyone, I just want to inform people and I feel that the ingredients that are in vaccines is very unsafe. I feel that people are being herded into auditoriums without having a clue as to what is being put into their bodies or what the long-term side effects of these vaccines will do to them.

If people are scared, they darn well should be. It's never good to walk into something uninformed. Most people couldn't even begin to tell you what's in a vaccine. Most people would automatically assume that all ingredients must be safe if the FDA approves them... not true.

There were vaccines containing Thimerosal that were given (yes in multi-doses), we want people to know this. I am not spreading misinformation and we have cleared that up on past threads, or so I thought. However, Thimerosal isn't the only additive that is dangerous... there are others. Take for instance Formaldehyde, Methanol, polysorbate, Monosodium Glutamate (MSG), Potassium phosphate, Polyoxidonium, Span85, and the list goes on. Look these chemicals/ingredients up and see the various side effects of them. They're devastating. In fact, I'll give you a link to the PDF factsheet which lists the ingredients and their side effects.

http://falseflagflu.com/pdf/Fliers/SwineFLuVaccineFactSheet.pdf

All I want is for people to be informed and I want these pharmaceutical companies to understand that we want SAFE ingredients put into our vaccines. We need vaccines that will not harm children, adults or those with IRAK4. We must make them accountable. My feelings are that there are may people out there who are getting vaccines and are being permanently disabled or die because of them. I know you've probably not known anyone who has had this issue, but if you had, you would understand where I'm coming from, trust me.

I do not have any dislike toward you. I have to give you a lot of credit, at least you take time to look things up...so you're doing better than probably 80% of the population!! :)

For those who want this vaccine, then go out and get it. For those who don't, fine, but please people either way, make it a point to know what's being put into your body before making a final decision.

We will all be much better off if we are given SAFE vaccines.

I'd also like to post a link to the World Association for Vaccine Education or WAVE.

http://www.novaccine.com/

There you will find a list of vaccines and their ingredients.

http://www.novaccine.com/specific-vaccines/vaccine.asp?v_id=16

just wondering how may people have died from normal flu, or would we not want to make that public becasue then the fear of swine flu might be proven to be overated. And on top of that all the people that have died so far ahave had underlying conditions, so was it really the flu that caused the death or the fact person was already sick and then would any thing else been the catalist.

elmster...yes, people die from normal flu, but regular flu season doesn't even begin until well into November, and not anywhere near as widespread as what is going on with H1N1 right now. The CDC keeps track of confirmed cases, hospitalizations and deaths each year on their website. The deaths from H1N1 are going to be much higher than the regular flu because there has already been around 4000 deaths before the normal flu season has even started.

We are talking about a different strain of flu. H1N1 2009 should be have a category all it's own, with it's very own set of statistics. That way, we can track more precisely how this virus is spreading, how many people actually have it, how many died from it etc...

We should keep it separate from the regular flu season which will go from October thru April. As I've mentioned before, the statistics for H1N1 will be way off if they group the two together. Because the CDC stopped testing in July (I know doctors have been testing, but I"m talking about the CDC now), the statistics are already jumbled.

We get 36,000 deaths per year from the flu and we are at 4,000, but it's questionable as to how many are actually H1N1.

The fact remains that those who have died thus far in Maine all had underlying medical conditions. I am anxious to see the final results when this all runs it's course.

.

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/11/16/citizen_heal_thyself_get_the_swine_flu_vaccine/

You know there is no proof either way everyones getting the same information from different source outlets, i know many people that have gotten sick only two with h1n1 and back to work in 3 to 4 days, for any one to accuse anyone on here of providing misinformation you can take and leave any info you want!!! I make my own judgement, because i don't agree with vaccine doesn't mean someone else will, it would be easy to accuse someone else about agreeing with it, there are more people on here not getting the shot then those that are getting it. There is good information on both sides of the fence, however, my sister in law is a nurse and none of the staff know much about the vaccine or whats in it, typical protocol because the vaccine came out so quick, and as AMAZED has said the doctors and nurses don't know whats in it they just go by what their told.

Amazed, much of your information on vaccines has been dicredited before and is misinformation or inaccurate. MSG is a natural biochemical, found in the body (admitedly, some people are allergic). Polysorbate and Span85 are safe agents, used in foods, and necessary to stabilize multiphase pharmaceuticals (oil and water, if you will, phase separation could be disasterous. Formaldeyde, methanol? Really? How much. Believe it or not, there is a dose/response saftey issue for EVERTHING, including water, oxygen, ... And as for your "only a few molecules of squalene" (nonexistant in US flu vaccines anyway), devastating?

Sure, everyone should be careful on what foods and pharmaceuticals we use and ingest, especially if suseptible (we are all individuals, after all) but be realistic about it and weigh the risks, as you yourself have pointed out (even though you use not-so-good data about vaccines).

For someone that said in a earlier post ask the doctors and nurses they are the experts??? That is false, this vaccine took 3 months if that the doctors only have the knowledge of whats provided to them, the vaccine didn't have enough time to be tested as others in the past were. THimerosal is an ingredient its called etyll mercury, organic form, nonetheless its still mercury, its a preservative to prevent contamination, Centaurmyst you agree on this, and you also support the vaccine which is your choice, but you have all these statistics and ideas on the vaccine and you dodge thimerosal issue, yes we need a preservative in all vaccines to prevent contamination, but there are also many statements from professionals and also WEB Md and other sources stating that some links between thimerosal and autism are unproven, however, every site that you read whether a junk site or quality source say the same things, its the long term effects possible that hasn't been proven but all linked to thimerosal so it makes in interesting.

I guess as long as there's a preservative no matter what it is, Its ok to inject it into your bodies right??? ALSO, some people have gotten sick and had severe complications from the vaccine but i don't here any of the vaccine supporters stating that either.

I'm glad some of your family members are doing better lets not forget about whats most important here!!

BOR, 3:02: Beating the conspiracy drum again (police/military/martial law?)? Yes, I've been reading about preparedness agaist pandemics for some time now and I applaud the efforts. Recent research methods have made possible analysis of the 1918-1919 Spanish Flu disaster (50 million deaths, I beleive). The analysis led to worldwide measures to avoid anything near that bad happening again. And yes, H1N1 is all to similar to the Spanish Flu. Yes, the 1977 flu was also similar (but fizzled in the population) but I don't believe it likely that it was an intentional (or accidental) release. Nor do I believe that H1N1 was an intentional or accidental "release" (if so, blame the Chinese; most flu virus mutations start in the Orient).

Guess if you need a conspiracy to keep you happy, so be it, just don't let that virus (conspriacy) spread either.

gopher, polysorbates are found in foods you are correct and how do obtain these in our system, orally which is a natural form not by injection, how many times in the past have we heard don't give your kids tylenol or sudafed or other over the counter medicine, now its ok?? Because the people doing the research don't really know, Bug spray used to have deet in it because it was most effective then it was a hazard to our health, then we had the scare a couple years ago from the west nile virus, then deet is back on the shelves and is accepted again, so its ok to use hazardous and unproven chemicals to prevent disease as long as it works short term???? I'm more worried about long term.

One site i read stated that some vaccines were questioned about long term effects, cancer,altzheimers, etc , my grandmother is 92 years old and moves around like a 60 year old, they didn't have the access the vaccines that are available today nor the ingredients in them, you see more 50-60 year old dying these days of cancer etc they're many people 80-90 year olds around today very odd if you are open minded, some on here are very narrow in my opinion

Centaurmyst in answer to your question earlier ... in the East Millinocket, Medway, Woodville school district. There was supposed to be a vaccination day for h1n1 and it was to be at all 3 schools grade school, middle school, and high school. According to the paperwork sent home. It was to begin at the high school. However, according to their staff, it started at the grade school and they weren't even given enough to do the grade school. To my knowledge they've never returned to finish all 3 schools. However... that said, there are h1n1 and regular flu shots available at the mill last week? And there are doses available at MRH for the firefighters, emts, that signed up to get them. So, like others have noted in this article as well as the other articles on h1n1 it seems to be a case of hit and miss at best.

By the way the other part of this whole mess you are all missing the point...

If you get the nasal one. It's live virus. Hello when you get sick after getting it. Even IF you find a doc to actually test you. You will test + because you let them put it in ya nose!!! So any and all statistics with those given the nasal dose would flaw the accuracy of the data!

Reality...If Thimerosal really causes autism then why did Denmark's rate of autism fo UP after removing ALL Thimerosal from the vaccines there? There is a common thread in some of the loudest Hollywood mothers with autistic children...they had substance abuse problems. It's a lot easier to blame vaccines for autism than it is to admit to drinking or doing drugs while pregnant.

There has been so much misinformation posted here on BDN, and just as much on the websites by all the anti-vaccine groups. SQUALENE, a chemical that makes the bodies immune system speed up protection, is NOT used in the US vaccine. Thimerosal is required in multi-dose vials, and has been used for years. The single dose vaccine has no thimerosal. This vaccine was developed using the same techniques that we have used for years. There is nothing sinister going on here.

I didn't say that thimerosal caused autism i said there are multiple information sources linking it, and none proven but always questioned

when you get a test its for influenza A or B, influenza A is not H1N1 but is commonly linked to it, a nasal swab hurts like hell i agree i wouldn't want my kids having it unless last resort, i'm 34 years old and it felt like a 2x4 being driven up my nose, H1N1 diagnosis results is not immediate, specially when clinics and dr's offices are packed, it could take a couple days to get the results back.

Meowbag 6:42 AM~ Precisely my point... we have a doctor in this article who feels that whatever the CDC suggests, she will follow, no questions asked.

http://vactruth.com/2009/11/11/conflicts-of-interest-dr-mehmet-oz-owns-150000-option-shares-in-vaccine-technology-company/

This doctor knows nothing about the ingredients or what it does to the body... how irresponsible can one be?

I agree Amazed, it should have it's own category and I am also enraged over the whole thing. My mother who happens to suffer from COPD and is very high risk has still not been able to receive the vaccine. She lives in Hancock County and has to travel here to Bangor to the Respiratory Care Center at the Webber Buldg at EMMC for her ongoing checkups. She has spoken with her Dr several times and been told that the vaccine is not available. My question is, why is Dr Mills constantly on the radio and TV stressing the importance of everyone getting this vaccine when even those with these underlying conditions, especially a lung illness, are still unable to get it? Also if the Respiratory Care Unit at EMMC doesn't have and hasn't had the vaccine available for THEIR patients then who on this blessed earth does have it to give out?

I will give you that my mother is just a couple years over 65 in age but given her current condition she can still live a few years longer and her children would appreciate her being around a few more years! This is making all of our family very nervous for fear that if she contracts this H1N1 will not see her on her next birthday or even perhaps on Christmas. I even went as far as to call my reg Dr to ask about the availability of the vaccine and was told none was available through them as well and they had no idea when it would be.

If you looked up the ingredients in our food supply and checked many of them out, you'd be shocked at some of the chemical additives.

Check out the prepackaged foods and you would be hard pressed to ever eat any of them ever again, especially the frozen dinners

that we prepare in microwaves. Those leak DEADLY toxins into our microwaved food... but again, they don't tell you that!! Have

you ever smelled plastic that is melting? It's a horrible smell... I'm not talking about it burning... I"m talking about melting.

Check out the ingredients in plastics, then think about what microwaving those wonderful easily prepared meals, is doing to

your body every-time you eat them. All APPROVED by the FDA!!

You have to remember, these vaccines are made by chemists who make things with CHEMICALS and ALL of them are connected

to BIG PHARMA. Our bodies can only take so much, it's not that we are only being bombarded by vaccines with chemicals,

we are; eating chemicals in our food supply, breathing chemicals from factories, cars, we walk in chemicals that are put on

our lawns and also used in the winter to get rid of ice, we have chemicals in our clothing, sheets and towels, that are put in

them at the factories. Have you purchased any new sheets lately? The smell would knock you over... there are so many

chemicals put in them!! We also put chemicals on our skin, make up, skin creams, etc....

It's all bad for us, and over time, it does a considerable amount of damage to our immune systems.

Unfortunately for some folks, they have immediate reactions to these chemicals when injected, which cause irreversible

damage and even death. We have to make changes in the way we treat our bodies what we put into them.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/21/Special-Swine-Flu-Update.aspx)

INSTITUTE FOR SCIENCE AND SOCIETY web site from doctors and scientists, , although it seems based in europe there are many other facts including U.S. studies the makers of the vaccine and General information on strains of influenza and other vaccines to fight virus's

Nattybell 11:04 AM~ I"m so sorry that you haven't been able to get the vaccine for your mother. Have you tried contacting the State of Maine or the CDC? With her medical condition, she definitely NEEDS it!! This whole mess was not carefully planned by the CDC at all... Statistics show that those who have lung disease are the most vulnerable.

Here is the information for the CDC:

Call 1-800-CDC-INFO (1-800-232-4636), 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, or email cdcinfo@cdc.gov.

(For TTY, call 1-888-232-6348.)

If you go to this website, you'll see the info for yourself: http://www.bt.cdc.gov/emcontact/

Here is the information for the State of Maine: http://www.flu.gov/professional/states/maine.html

Here's the hotline number for the State of Maine: State Hotline number: 888-257-0990

Flu.questions@maine.gov

Call both these hotline numbers and hopefully you can reach someone who can give you answers and will agree to somehow get an injection to your doctor so that you can get the vaccine.

11:28 AM Reality~ He's got a lot of great information! However, those who believe that vaccines are safe, will put him down, claiming that he knows nothing about vaccines.

I've utilized a lot of his advice and have had excellent results!

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/21/Special-Swine-Flu-Update.aspx)

Nattybell~ Make sure that your mother washes her hands frequently and in her case, I'd even go so far as to having her wear a mask in public. Just my opinion.

many scientists share information whether they're from the U.S. or not, when you have a Scientist or Doctor making a statement "for anyone that finds their information to be misleady or wrong feel free to correct him" i didn't see anyone try to compete against the points that were made.

For some that are narrow minded, i usually look at positives and negatives take a look at both sides, people on here are giving the pro's on the vaccine and others are giving the con's on it, the more information that is available to all of us the better!!!! If their was a rumor that your furnace in your house had a recall that could cause electrical problems that result in fires, i'm pretty sure your going to get the answers, just like when you did the homework on buying it in the first place. Buts its up to us to get the information and heresay to make the right decison not to be narrow minded and look at the side that we want.

nattybell...call (207)629-5751 (Monday - Friday 9am - 5pm) and tell the person you talk to that you can't find anywhere to get your mother vaccinated. Tell them the location of where your mother gets care and tell them that they don't have the vaccine to give and you think they should. I did this when my pregnant daughter's OB/GYN office told me that they were having a difficult time getting vaccines. About 10 days after I made the call the office unexpectedly got 80 H1N1 vaccines. I'm not sure if my phone call made any difference or not, but it certainly couldn't hurt for you to call and talk to someone. The number is from the Maineflu.gov website and is for quesitons.

fromaweigh 10:21 you are wrong, have you read the package inserts on the U.S. approved vaccines and their ingredients??? One of the vaccine makers has thimerosal in the single dose vaccine as well, its not U.K ....BS this is from the vaccine maker!!! When you get your vaccine ask who makes it to your doctor they will not know, If you don't feel comfortable demand you want to know the maker of the vaccine and go home and you can pull the package inserts from these companies, they also will show or list the tests that were made and their recommendations one vaccine maker DID NOT recommend pregant or nursing women to get the vaccine and the CDC said all pregnant women should get the vaccine immediately, my question is who do you believe the people that make it or the CDC thats for all of us to make a decision on

centaurmyst, although you an i disagree on some issue i do give you credit for taking your time and helping those that do want information and contact numbers

Reality...some of the vaccine makers actually manufacture vaccines for more than one countries. There would be no Thimerosal in any single dose vaccines because it's not necessary. Thimerosal is a preservative that is only used in multi-dose vials where the vaccine dosage is extracted from the same vial multiple times. They use it only on those vials because if they don't use a preservative there is a significant danger that the vials will be contaminated with bacteria or fungi. If that happens it WILL kill people. There is no need for the preservative in the single doses because there is no risk of contamination. The Canadian and Eurpoean vaccines have adjuvants like squalene and the US vaccines do NOT have that at all. I've looked at all of the vaccine inserts being given in the US. Some of those anti-vaccine web sites have been posting inserts that came from Canada and the UK and passed them off as if they were US inserts.

Here's the headline above:

"2 more deaths in Maine linked to the H1N1 flu

Newest victims, now totaling five, had underlying health conditions"

Here's the 9th paragraph from above:

"In a normal flu season in Maine, an estimated 150 people die, about a dozen outbreaks occur in long-term care facilities, and usually fewer than a half-dozen schools report high absentee rates."

Why the hysteria on H1N1? We have not peaked in the flu season yet, but 5 is far less than 150.