"the working men and women of maine cannot afford a tax increase,..." really? not even a little one for education? will it take food out of they're mouths or make them homeless? you don't cut corners on education and do it on the cheap unless you're tight fisted, myopic teabaggers.

Wow, Maine has actually cut it's budget, at least twice! It's about time.

The problem with the budget cuts is where the cuts are coming from...children, the elderly, the homeless and mentally ill. Those are the most vulnerable populations. Why not tax alcohol like they have taxed cigarettes to help avoid taking away from the most vulnerable?

The state is still spending money like they don't have a shorfall. Look at the construction going on at the rest stop they eliminated just before entering Augusta going south bound.. Oh it's so we can collect more money in fine's from the truckers. Yet we have one north of Bangor that we don't use anymore. I guess will take away from the people and make them feel the pain where it count's but we won't touch any dept. that waste. Like every Dept. that controls the population and the work force in this state.

We had our chance and blew it. but we will vote again.

I'd rather see them cut or freeze teacher salaries than skip buying decent textbooks (since teachers are very heavily reliant on those texts at this point, the quality of the book has a direct link with the quality of the learning, probably more so than the teacher even). In this economy those of us who work are lucky to have jobs, we should all sacrifice a bit, in the form of cutbacks, in order to help others.

"No new taxes??" B...S... Just wait until you see your new property tax bill! There is only one way that the school budget committees will react to the cut in the state contribution and that is by forcing towns to raise their local property taxes to make up most of the short fall. Bend over tax payers, here come the teacher unions.....

Zonc

Government schools have proven themselves to be an overpriced, poor quality product for at least 20 years.

Government schools are underfunded for the mandates that are handed down, which do nothing to improve the education of students. Stop cutting education or stop expecting teachers to produce smart kids. You can't do it on the cheap!

School departments throughout the state are going to face the wall here. The people cannot pay more in property tax to offset the state cutback. All programs including the sacred cow, sports, will have to be reviewed and those that benefit the total student body should be preserved. Those that benefit the few will have to go. The elective classes that only a few take part in are what I am speaking off.

The State is on the verge of economic collapse due to years of the giveaway through the self perpetuating sucking hole of the Department Of Health and Human Services. If you could cut out half of the department you could find the funds to keep the state afloat. But there has to be a place for social workers to go.

C'mon Bangorian! Get with the program! You can't honestly believe the book has more impact than the teacher. Grab a text book on any advanced subject you are unfamiliar with and try to learn by text alone! Impossible.

I hate to see money wasted on certain books! Here is a clue Bangorian- Algebra is the same as it was a hundred years ago! Why do you need a fancy cover on a book to teach algebra? You don't! We the tax payers have dumped a ton of money into laptops that should be eliminating some text books. I have yet to see it.

That fool in Augusta has the audacity top cut school spending after he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars forcing consolidation down the throats of rural Maine. I would not wish ill upon anyone, but would be relieved if something happened that made him unable to stay on as governor. I don't know if I can stand another jump in property tax due to this idiot. I only hope the great State of Maine can survive until the next election!

...and while Maine is "at cutting budgets", employers best find it in their programs of hiring personnel to fill positions, fill them with only qualified, US citizens, giving Maine resident's the first-option chance for that particular job. So much for teacher's unions, also. What is the fallout in this respect? The article did not mention it. What was mentioned in Augusta concerning freezing ALL state worker's salaries, and cutting-back on salaries for "overpaid" non-essential employees and included in this, are state worker unions that keep on fighting for salary/benefits increases all the time.

Breaking the back of government is a common thing, but when it jeopardizes valuable health and human services needs and requirements for Maine resident's, this may be going a little too far, although the microscope needs to be taken out of the box for a look-see at what departments and ancillary programs really need trimming. Bangorian was the first to mention freezing salaries, and it reflects my opinion. Textbooks are another item, but to me it is minor. Just don't buy new ones for a while. What can also be frozen at the State House?

Baldacci knew this train would be coming down the tracks, and now we see it also. This is the next step in the 'plan'.

At least the Governor is trying to do something to lessen or stabilize taxes for Maine residents. It just depends on where and how much the state-operations are affected and who and where are affected.

Of course for those who are close to the Governor, their jobs will be saved....

Won't raise taxs but baldy has raised everything else. All your license have doubled in price within the last 1 or 2 years taxes on all kinds of store products have douibled in tax's

Make people stop smoking and the state wont get any more tax money and the state has already taxed alcohol. Not to much left that has'nt already been taxed to death

more war, more war, isn't this fun?

now there's 'hope & change' we can believe in.

Before they make specific cuts in Education and DHHS, we need some major changes in how the Baldacci Administration has been "managing" the state workforce. In particular; if you read the overly generous “ARTICLE 63. SICK LEAVE” (pages 57-59) of the state employee’s contract

(http://www.mseaseiu.org/forms/admin07-09.pdf),

you’ll find one large example of fraud/abuse/waste at the taxpayers’ expense. The cozy Baldacci-SEIU relationship needs to be terminated now! IMO, state workers should receive a maximum of four (4) paid sick days per calendar year, period. In addition, the unused days should not be rolled over for the next year. There also needs to be some type of incentive program to reward state workers whom don't use all of their sick days, and we must stop the widespread abuse of the current system (e.g., using sick days as extra vacation days). The BS needs to stop!

well, well,, and what about the Bangor Slot? what about all the money coming in from them? Thought they were going to 'save' Maine????and what about the Power Ball?? what's happening to this state?? I want new blood. American ingenuity brought back!@ we work, we play, we love, we laugh, we have our own schools within our towns, teachers, and parents know each other and care about the well being of the child. They grow to be productive americans. Maybe the governor should live within his means as we have to. Maybe the mentally challanged should not have all the toys out there, 'toys' they do not even know what to do with, that most of us live without. Maybe then we could have more money for our schools and elderly. what is the answer? turn back to God. We have abandoned Him and His ways. God Bless America.

State continues wasteful programs like brain injury recreational rehab, while continuing to cut non-federally reimbursed programs that provide the basics for the elderly and children.

Bangorian..Are you living in the Ice Age??? Come in out of the cold. Text books are not needed to teach ANY subject. Do the research: Schools with the highest state scores have not been using text books for many years!

Take note that the Maine Maritime Academy isn't taking any budget hits.. still receiving $8,000,000 from the state coffers for a student body of which one half are recruited from out-of-state. At some point people are going to start to wonder why vital state services are being cut and yet have lavish subsidies for out-of-state students who leave immediately after graduation and never look back.

Cut from the TOP Down

SSDD>You had your Change Maine

And You blew it Again

Throw them ALL out and Start OVER>Period<<

Of course Education and Human Services will bear the brunt of "cuts", as they take such big chunk of the tax pie in Maine! Why shouldn't they????

As a recently retired Maine teacher, I can say, it is about time. Let me suggest Maine starts at the TOP, and start cutting!! These small Maine districts have exploded in administrative growth, with secretaries to the secretaries, etc. Yet, on the front line, teachers are being asked to combine classes. Lest we not forget the amount of $ special ed drains out of taxpayers pockets, and yes, there is federal law requiring some of the programs, and staffing, but a lot of it is in matching funds, and still and all, federal funds are coming from our pockets, not some mystical bank in the sky. Drop half of those programs. And sports. I do feel sports offer a child a well-rounded education, however, it is expensive; just to run the buses is expensive. It is about time, that sports programs require independent funds, like the many pay-to-play programs that have emerged in recent years. Schools do not need to be open 175 days either. It is a waste of time for students to be at school from Memorial Day to end of year - it is simply PLAY time now, a glorified babysitting service, and an expensive one at that. The students are done learning then. Drop in a school in June, and watch the games being played!!!!!!! Plus, drop back to a 4 day week, somewhat longer days, like the schools in some Mountain states do, with a huge amount of savings.

Human Services is another area where massive cuts are needed. I know of one program, in Ellsworth, that employs roughly 4 people, that conducts cooking classes for the elderly! Well, I am one of the elderly, and if I don't know how to cook by now, something is really wrong with me. This program could easily be cut. Very few people realize what it provides to the community, and are astounded when they learn. How many other programs are like this in Human Services? What about the "program" that helps people with car payments? Yep, you read it right. One could go on and on and on and on.

This is a big reason why people from out of state often move to Maine; to get the generous benefits provided.

So, YES, start cutting. If real substantive cuts are not made soon, this state is going to be crushed by its own weight.

Now maybe we can get rid of the GIFTED & TALENTED - what a joke - Now maybe we can get rid of the ONE ON ONE - what a joke - now is a good time to renogociate teacher contracts - This bull of calling in sick and hiring subs because it's in their contract has to stop - (paying twice) This is an epidemic and a strain on the taxpayers - Sports is fine - but we don't need to hire a coach for every sport -

I hope that our illustrious leaders here in Bangor are getting the meassage - There isn't any more money - We don't need 85 police - we can cut the size of Public Works - We don't need to hire a City Manager with a starting salary of $120,000 with beny's - These are tough times and we need to get tough with spending - For once - do your job !!!!

I wonder what type of pay cut the Governor decide he would take since he is slashing the pay for others. Will the Blaine house or the State house keep the thermostat at 60 like we homeowners have been suggested to do for savings? Maybe they can wear an extra layer at work like some kids do at school. Are we not all in this together?

Why isn't the most severe cut in the legislators salaries and benefits? After all aren't they "Public Servants", "Statesmen"?

How about cutting back seriously on that truly sacred cow, the police? I live in Searsport, a town of about 3,600 where in the past decade the police department has grown from a chief, one officer and one cruiser to a chief, a sergeant, a police clerk, seemingly endless numbers of substitute officers whose faces come and go, two cruisers, an unmarked truck and at least one unmarked car. I have no quarrel with any of these officers and the chief is evidently a very decent and competent individual. But why now in this quiet town where the elderly are the predominant portion of the population do we suddenly need yet another officer and yet another cruiser? Here's why: thanks to the national security state lunatics in Washington it's free. That is to say that the selectmen in their wisdom (?) have latched onto a "deal" in which the federal government has agreed that it should give Searsport approximately $100,000 to finance this absurd and totally unnecessary charade for two years. After that, the citizens of Searsport can decide whether they want to pick up the entire cost themselves. Voting whether to continue funding existing police positions is an activity in Searsport that takes place in open session at the annual town meeting. In nearly 20 years of attending these meetings I have yet to see townspeople muster the courage to say no to the police on anything significant. Perhaps when they find they can no longer afford their property taxes they will.

I keep saying to anyone who'll listen; legalize and tax the hell out of marijuana. Maine will have a budget surplus in six months, all people will be covered for health care and all schools will be up to date on texts with long overdue raises for teachers and Ed-Techs.

In fact education has been funded lavishly in Miane recently. The only problem is that this money has gone for the wrong things. $173,000,000 for just 4 new schools around Bangor alone! I guess those schools will look great even if we can't afford to have the students actually attend. Fools. We could have rehabbed all of them for a small fraction of that money. Or we could have built wooden, single story, dormitory style schools without cafeterias (eat in the classroom like I did), gyms, university class athletic fields, performing arts centers, glass facades, and all the extra's that are a nice to have but not a need to have. We probably could have built 4 such schools for under $50,000,000 and had money around so the kids could actually attend the gosh dang schools!

ConnieD,

Thank you for an excellent post!

I'm so disgusted I can't even think straight. I'm a single parent of two, one of whom has severe special needs. I work two jobs and we still barely make it each month. My child's services provided by the state have been cut and cut and cut again, and there's not much left. Now they're going to cut HOW much?? I grew up here and love Maine. I wanted my kids to grow up with the same values and experiences I had as a child growing up here..but it's not happening. All I want to see is Maine in the rear-view mirror as we head to a state that doesn't drive away it's kids and families.

How about not pay the teachers so much. And cut lunch aids and have the teachers take thier students to lunch like they use to do in the old days.

I bet that the public would be sickend by how much lunch aids actually get paid. they make a lot of money and they get pay raises every year unlike most people in the last few years.

backshore what do you think they use to do in the old days pay people to take on one student per teacher aid. No they stuck the kids in a class with a teacher teaching a bunch of special needs students but no now days people think that the whole world should stop and have one on one teacher time.

"State finance Commissioner Ryan Low pointed out that a governor’s powers to curtail spending is fairly limited because state law prohibits statutory changes without the Legislature’s approval."

The governor has no trade space because the liberal legislature insulates its pet rocks from budget cuts. Brilliant!

Zonc, it is not the Teachers Unions that raise the cost of Education in Maine, it is the Mommy patrols that want only the best for their kids. Their kids come before anyothers wants. Now the best way to cut education spending is to get rid of all the extra curiccular programs in the school didtricts.

That means all sports,

Give every one that work for schools, collages,goverment, town welfare wages that would make everyone happy an make then all part time help save even more money than they would qualfy to draw from the state.

Kiktterykid Thats a great idea cut ALL EXTRA CURICCULAR programs saves lost of money

BeckyHarding 7:00 AM. I agree that gambling, casinos, Powerball, etc. should be helping out services like education as they were supposed to. All too often, in this and other states, I've seen these promises not kept. We need an accounting of what gambling acutally contributes to education in Maine.

However, I'm having trouble deciphering the last part of your post. "Toys for the mentally challenged"? Is God really using this to punish "us"?

This does bring up an important point. Special Ed, and not only for the severiously disabled, was mandated by a classic "approved and not funded" by Congress decades ago. Every succeeding Congress since has severly underfunded the programs, yet required them. This may sound crass, but maybe right-to-lifers should take more responsibility (as should we all) for supporting the disabled beginning with adoption and foster care as well as education.

Interesting how situations like this produce a bunch of would-be educational experts dumping on teachers who must put up from a lot of crap especially from bratty kids with poor (or no) parenting (and their unrealistic parents).

How about setting the heat in schools to 68 kids can wear sweat shirts to school an long sleave shirts too.

Extracurriculars, including sports, are valuable for the full education of kids. There are ways to help fund these outside of the operating budget. As for coaches, in most of the smaller schools at least, the coaches also teach academic subjects.

Or here's another, to my mind, "easy cut" out of Searsport. Unfortunately, it's too late. Last spring the Baldacci administration in its wisdom (?) gave $100,000 to a marketing firm to run wild with, its mission to find some speculator willing to clearcut, level off and pave over about a third of the largest uninhabited wild island on the U.S. East Coast still remaining in public hands. For generations the unimaginative dream of legions of Maine politicians and bureaucrats has been to do something with Sears Island, anything but leave it wild and "unused." Their vision began over 40 years ago with a nuclear-powered aluminum smelter and progressed through criminal transgressions by the state with Maine Department of Transportation officials only saved from prosecution by the emergency manipulations of our own Olympia Snowe. The latest permutation of this stupid vision is a proposal to siphon off traffic from an already severely depressed cargo container industry by building such a port on Sears Island. Never mind that tourism, retirement living and the creative economy are the biggest and most promising aspects of our economy in Maine and without protection and support for our wild places these will only fade. Never mind that the wild integrity of Sears Island would be completely destroyed. Never mind that the only rationale for a port venture that would provide only a handful of specialized jobs has come in the form of an overpriced (reportedly at a $200,000 cost to the state) puff piece from a group of prostitute-consultants known as the Cornell Group -- judging from their public record they tell all their clients their particular proposed venture is the greatest so they sure sound like call girls to me.

The fact is, this threat to something that is precious and irreplaceable exists for two reasons and neither serves the people of Maine very well. One is the usual dreary reason, our politicians and bureaucrats are an uncommonly dull lot and they always need some busywork to give themselves and those they've hoodwinked the impression they're actually working for a living. The other less obvious reason is the Bangor and Aroostook Railroad. This historic railroad went under in 2002, joining the Great Northern Paper Co. in bankruptcy. The woods products industry in Maine has long been in trouble (the workers more than the mill owners themselves) and the rail line suffered accordingly. A group of speculators in Chicago operating under the name Rail World bought up the rusting assets of the B&A from the bankruptcy court at something like a dime on the dollar and in a bid to emphasize the rail connection to Canada (which has existed since 1913) re-branded the line as the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway. The company is still in deep trouble, recently abandoning about a third of its trackage, but, remember, Rail World is a speculative outfit, not a longterm rail management company. The Rail World speculators were never in this for anything but a quick and highly profitable turnaround on their investment. A container port on Sears Island where Rail World wants to extend three parallel lines of track a mile and a half long would boost the perceived value of the B&A property considerably. I suspect Rail World's plan is to hang on in the expectation a port is permitted and then just as soon as possible to sell the line for more than was paid for it. Senseless short-term profiteering has been at the heart of the current financial crisis. We're paying the price and with the continuing short-range vision of our myopic politicians we can all count on paying more of a price.

gov. was running he was for the working people now cuts cuts when he was going to school and was going to collage they all had a good education he did why not cut his pay congress goes for a raise then get it plus he don t care now he for same sex marrige turncoat benidick john guess no raise dor diabily but yet everything going up why an t they bring back the shoe facortys etc. wonder if the gov. had to pay 3.38 a gallon for oil gas etc.or state of maine paying but he wants people of maine to suffer cut congress in half we cam spend billions and billion see if we got water on the mars who cares thing about the next time you see a homeless person

Mainers never, ever learn. You consistently vote Democrat, then you complain when the system they created collapses. Then you suggest that we tax those who pay for that system even further. You Democrats never, ever learn. You are foolish and unwilling to admit the immutable truth of socialism -- that "sooner or later you run out of other people's money." The Maine budget is bloated and the working population is overtaxed, precisely in order to provide "services" (i.e., handouts) to those who produce nothing and live off the backs of others. I can still hear their voices screaming, "Yes We Can ... Yes We Can." You fools! Go home and stop whining until you are ready to stop voting for an incompetent party that knows nothing of how to manage an economy. "Yes We Can ... Yes We Can."

The article is about public education -- an investment in those who will one day carry the responsibilities of providing for families, and making public policy decisions... Working people, who must nonetheless supplement their meager earnings with welfare, do so in spite of increasing productivity. (Productivity gains have been newly disconnected from wages and directed toward shareholders...). While there will always be those who game the system (the ones who do the most damage are far from poor...), lavishing money on those who don't produce is a false narrative, not matter how often repeated.

"Starving the beast" or "drowning government in a bathtub..." inhibits economic activity, as commerce demands strong public infrastructure, including education, to function.

Gopher you are right they do teach in school BUT they get payed extra for coaching go to the school district an find out for you self .Whats the cost of the up keep of all the fields at schools??

According to muget then, the poor do not receive any good or services that they don't pay for out of their own wages. This is good news since the +/- $2B the State allocates for them each year can be cut. If you knock off the $400M the State is in the hole that leaves a $1.6B surplus.

The increased productivity is due to the fact that workers (not people who are paid to show up but people who are paid to produce) understand that people are being laid off and they don't want to be included in that group. While the stock market is doing fair, I would think it would be doing a lot better if you cut labor by 5% and increased productivity by 10%.

Parents still have the option (and responsibility) to fund the education investment for their children. I'm perplexed why that is not understood or promoted.

does anyone find the expression "tight fisted, myopic teabaggers" offensive or merely accurate?

chumby has misinterpreted what I wrote. I pointed out that our welfare system, in many cases, subsidizes sub-livable wages, as any person availing themselves of public assistance may well be the nursing assistant caring for our elderly loved ones, teachers, etc. Who, then are we subsidizing? Poor individuals or the labor costs of business? We cannot blame workers for this, as their productivity numbers have steadily increased. (Economists have long assumed that wages rise along with productivity, but that has no longer been the case of late -- relative to increasing productivity, profits have risen while wages have remained flat). Of course public education accounts for only a portion of the total education of the child, the rest being the responsibility of the family. ( I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. -- Mark Twain), as parents see their wages remain flat, even as their costs of living increase, and even as they work ever harder to increase productivity for shareholders only, not to enjoy its fruits... they will be far less able to fulfill these obligations in future. This is the natural progression of laissez-faire, and most assuredly a matter for public policy.

...as for the obligation of the public to educate its citizens, I defer to the Founding Fathers: "If we're going to have a successful democratic society, we have to have a well educated and healthy citizenry". - - Thomas Jefferson

Here is the situation in my district....RSU19... we have a Superintendent, Assistant Superintendent,Curriculum Co-Ordinator, Head of Special Services, Assistant Head of Special Services, Head of Maintenance, District Math Department Head, Middle School Literacy Coach, High School Literacy Coach...and this is just a small sample of our administrative bloat. Wanna take bets on if any of them lose their jobs next year?

Plenty of money building new court houses

Please raise taxes already!!!

We all need to step up to the plate and ride this out together.

Baldi's DIRIGO is still alive a kickin though!

Never...Ever...elect a democrat!

What is all this nonsense bashing Democrats? Maine Republicans have long held a disproportionate two of the 100 seats in the Senate. Did the kneejerk rightwingnuts forget that? How about the fact that the financial crisis we're all currently weathering was brought about by the unbridled greedy on Wall Street and in corporate boardrooms aided and abetted by perhaps the most incompetent and dishonest president in American history -- a freaking REPUBLICAN!

Don't think for a moment I care much more for the Democrats -- almost all of them feed at the same filthy trough with their GOP colleagues -- but I have to marvel just how far some of the rightwingnuts are prepared to drift out of connection with simple realities.

How about we first take a look at the "Proffesional Welfare Recipients". You know the ones im talking about, the ones that have been bleeding the system for 5 maybe 10 or more years. Ive seen the Mom and her 3 kids stand in the door wavin bye bye, while the boyfriend drives off in his 4 wheel drive pick up to go lobstering for the day, making 500 or more for that day. But they dont count his income because they dont tell DHHS that he lives with them. Or the mother who buys her best friend 200 in groceries while her friend gives her 100 cash in trade so she can go buy some cigarettes and booze. This happens everyday and no one makes the cuts there. There are some people who really do need these services and while they are using them they actualy try to find work so they can be selfsupportive. BUT there are also those who sit around and say, well if I have aonther kid ill get another 100 or so each month and another 150 in food stamps. So bring on another one! There has got to be some way to redo the welfare system so that you have a certain amount of time to find work, or risk losing some if not all of your benefits. This is crazy I have actualy seen some of the above mentioned things happen. I know someone living on the other side of the country still collecting food stamps from MAINE, and they are now working a full time job!!!!!!!!! How does this happen? Why does it happen? Someone needs to look into this part of the problem instead of taking it away from the elderly or mentally disabled. Who cares if a few older people go to cooking classes, it may be the only interaction they get. Cut the dead beats, the ones who are living on the welfare system, and lying to keep getting it. It may not cure the problem but will sure help.

We need to raise taxes on those of us who can afford it. Plain and simple. We do not need a newer car or a recreational boat....we need to make sure our children receive the education that they deserve and need; we need to make sure that our most vulnterable people have the most basic of needs met; we need to care for those who need caring. More people are poor. More poor people are poorer. More people with mental illness are not getting the treatment and services they need. Baldacci and our legislators need to raise above the "yahoos" who kick and scream about every single penny of taxes and do what is right and just and raise the taxes on those of us who can pay. I can pay more. I am not rich by any means but I can do with less so the most needy of our fellow citizens survive and get the services they need.

Just when I get thoroughly disgusted with the general tenor of some of these posts along comes "humanbeing" to demonstrate just what it means to be a GOOD human being. Thank you for offering a refreshing example of common decency. I thoroughly second those generous sentiments.

Thank you, humanbeing, and PeterTaber. I believe as you do that needs should be met...

humanbeing: Your username suits you. Great username! And , like PeterTaber, I appreciated reading your comments. It is noticed among all the other comments one reads on this site (well, you know....)....your unselfish, generous attitude is really refreshing.

muguet wrote: "The article is about public education -- an investment in those who will one day carry the responsibilities of providing for families, and making public policy decisions."

That's the facade. Public education is a failure. It's a horrible product at an inflated price. More and more money has been thrown into government schools for decades with negative results. This is about teachers' unions, special ed and administrators sucking us dry to "graduate" kids who can't read, do basic math or support themselves. A liberal politician's dream...... citizens who are reliant on government welfare programs from day one.

Given the current economic conditions, having an education provides no assurance of getting and/or keeping a job.

To "humanbeing" please define for us "those of us who can afford more"? I for one would like to know.

Gotta have all them fancy new courthouses. The indigent defendants are sooo impressed when they get arraigned in a shiny, bright new building!

maineworker, you are right.we should start with the Welfare System,don't get me wrong, I am for helping the people less fortunate,and there are plenty today,the way this country is going.All Welfare Systems should be revised,across the country,not just in Maine. I also know people who collect money food stamps etc.and have there boyfriends living with them,some sell there food stamps for drugs etc.In the state of Mass,about eight years ago they changed there Welfare System,you no longer can stay on welfare for as long as you want and have as many as children you want to receive more money.The cut off is two years,thats it! if you have a child while on welfare in that period of time,that child is not covered under the Welfare System.The Welfare System is to help you and your family in your time of need,not a way of life to live of your state.They will help you find a job,recieve education,and also do community service in the two year span that you are on welfare.Since the change,it has helped the state,and also helped to show the ones that don't want to help themselves to work and live a better life,this is not a free ride forever.There is so much fraud in the Welfare System,threw the people that are on it,I myself don't understand how it continues year after year.As far as our education,if we don't spend the money to educate our children for them to learn the way they should,just think, they are our future,they will making decisions for us in our old age.The less we give them now,the more crime, more people on welfare,more addiction to drugs and alcohol, more metal health problem,will be the future for our children,if they don't recieve the education they truly deserve.The elderly,they are the back bone of our country,they worked hard,they made a future for there children,they stayed together as a family,helped one another when in need,we should care for them as if they were KINGS and Queens,they deserve good quailty care and programs.We as a people, need to help one another,alot of people today think of themselves and what they can get,before some one else gets it first.I was born and raised in Maine,I love Maine like it was my father,my parents always helped the person next door if they needed help,They didn't complain or blame someone when they had a problem,they fought for what they believed in,my father fought in war time for his country,they did what they had to do.most of all they gave to the ones that need giving,as the old saying goes,it is better to give than recieve.God Bless our people and our country.

Humanbeing..when are the deadbeats, welfare queens, state workers, and other parasites going to help me? It seems like all the working people ever do is help, help, help and take,take,take. Get off the prosac and get a job. Im tired of carrying all the dead weight in this state. We have non-profits, university professors, think tanks, and other assorted "do gooders" who haven't created, produced or contributed anything productive to this economy. Yet they whine the most when there is no more money in their till for their various pet projects.

I guess the State of Maine should stop payment of that $ 1.3 million for that new school bus routing computer software.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/124062.html?print=1

After reading these posts, only two really makes sense to me and i want to thank him/her for pointing out the clear problem thats bringing this state to its needs and NOONE wants to do anything to fix it. MARY825 and MAINEWORKER figured it out really quick and im surprised noone else figured that out, WOW!! WELFARE REFORM! i think i could find 400 million easy there between all the abusers in maine of welfare. ONCE again out of all the things that i sometimes comment about, the welfare system, waste, ABUSERS AND LOSERS like them two mentioned above with the drugs, the unreported boyfriend income, the lets have more kids for more money attitude and other crap is getting F$#$#$ rediculous. I cant say the things on this post i REALLY WANT TO SAY TO THESE WASTES OF SPACE ON HERE AND ILL LEAVE IT THAT!! thank u once again to maineworker and mary825. I think i have seen u point this out on multiple occasions maineworker, u have the pulse of the problem i think. i just hope someday these losers get whats coming to them and its not going to be a good thing i guarentee it.

"If we're going to have a successful democratic society, we have to have a well educated and healthy citizenry" Which is EXACTLY why TJ established a national public education system when he was President. Oh wait, he didn't. And I actually disagree with his statement - we need a wise citizenry. What we have are unwise, semi-educated folks who have been taught in public school that they can vote money out the pockets of hard working middle class people like myself and have that wealth transferred to themselves in the form of government goods and services. All from the comfort of their lazyboy while watching the Sox on NESN with a Bud Light in their hand.

In many instances, well educated and public education are mutually exclusive.

"...parents see their wages remain flat, even as their costs of living increase, and even as they work ever harder to increase productivity for shareholders only..." Which companies are posting double-digit profits that are being returned to shareholders? Please share. How many companies in Maine are singularly-owned/don't have shareholders. Most parents in this state do not pay sufficient taxes to support the +/- $7k per student per year cost of public education. With that said, some other entity (read as including business taxes) is footing the bill.

Are you naively stating that increased productivity is exclusively (or even primarily) due to labor?

The best lesson NEVER taught in public schools is financial responsibility. The State is bleeding red ink, unemployment is at 10%, new business start-ups are nowhere to be found in Maine (despite the primary requisite for such being an over-funded public education system), and the immediate future looks bleak - and the only thing we hear from the left is spend more, spend now, spend, spend, spend!

Me. I can afford more. Maybe you can too. I try to help as much as I can but I could do more because there are people who need it more. There are people who are hungry. There are people living on the streets. There are people who need medication and treatment. I can give up my beloved iced lattes and help more. I run one of those non profits someone here talked about. We are trying. I don't make alot of money even though I work more than 100 hours each week. I can't pay my staff nearly enough......and they have such difficult jobs.....long hours, horrible situations. But you know, the hardest thing for my staff is that they see good people going down the tubes every day. They see people who are working three part time jobs at minimum wage who can't afford an apartment. They see kids without shoes. My staff give from their own meager paychecks to help people. Every week. They see everyday what life is like for so many people. They do what they can.

Here's the thing. There are deadbeats who take when they don't need but we can't worry about them. They are small in number compared to those who really need and who are trying like hell but can't climb out of the deep hole they are in. It is easier to look away because many of us don't know them. But they are there and they need us. We should not be measuring our success by how much we have but by how much we have contributed to our community.

Anyone one of us might need help one day. Mental Ilness does not just strike others. It could affect you or your mother or your son. You will then see how devastated the system is when you try to get help. You will see what is like to have no money because you have spent your savings on getting help for someone who is tortured and hurting themselves....someone you love. You will see what is like to send your kids to school with clothes that are dirty and don't fit because you dont have money for the laundromat let alone to buy new clothes. You will see what it is like to wait until the third Thursday of the month for your local food bank to be open.

People are people. Some of us have been more fortunate than others. Some of us have had more opportunities than others. Some of us are healthier than others. Please do not judge unless you have walked in their shoes. Please care about each other.

Governor Baldacci, please raise taxes to help care of the most vulnerable in our society.

In response to humanbeing:

When I was homeless and living in my car, I never once felt that I was owed anything (especially by the government or by the working class). I worked my tail off and I've been in the 3 part time jobs situation. Based on my experiences, I know that I am a much better steward of my money than Washington DC ($12T in the hole) or Maine ($400M in the hole). I feel people who get hooked on relying on the regular assistance of others become conditioned to never again provide for themselves. Your outfit is just one aspect of the industry that is government/community assistance; food, shelter, transportation, utilities, education, healthcare, etc. For example, I have an able-bodied and able-minded sister who chooses not to work and instead gets everything provided for her by the government in the state where she lives to the tune of about $75k per year. The doctors said she was fine, she kept saying she wasn't. Eventually, the caseworker gave in because it wasn't the caseworker's money that will pick up the costs. It takes the taxes from a lot of hard-working people before that bill is paid.

My family donates to a local charity and the local food bank though both may come to an end if our taxes go up again (for the third time in three years) or if we are forced by the government to pick up the costs of healthcare services for non-family members. We pay a lot more than our fair share and are a bit fed up with the "we should all pay more crowd" when those shouting the message don't pay and won't be paying in the future. I actually see success as how free I can be, to not be a burden unto others, to ensure my future security, and to contribute; I don't see contributing as being forced by threat of jail time by the government to give up my hard worked wealth to someone else who chooses to work less, plan less, and practice less self-control than myself. I refer back to my financial responsibility comment - most people spend more time picking their ringtone than managing their financial situation.

Regarding sacrifices: the families in the LyHeap stories WABI broadcast last year had more than a few luxuries that we don't have (satellite tv, cell phones, cigarettes, fast food). I heard this from my local food bank - whenever a large item comes in (turkey, ham, etc) they try and reserve it for one of the larger families. But some of the other "clients" complain and say that the item should be divided equally. Again, we are conditioning a portion of our population and that portion is growing.

I think for me it comes down to that I have trouble sleeping at night if I know that there are children who are hungry or women living on the street with schizophrenia. Yes....there are those who are able to muster enough fortitude to rise above their situation and that sounds like you and I think that is great. But a hungry 3 year old cannot. A woman with severe mental illness cannot. Believe me I think it is wonderful that you have done what you did and are doing for yourself but we need to accept that some people cannot.

Yes there are those who abuse the system. But believe me....so many more do not.

Is it OK to let children go hungry or the mentally ill be homeless and untreated just because some people can pull it together or some people abuse the system.

In my world....I see the poor giving to each other. I see people trying like hell. I don't see cell phones, I see people putting cardboard with duct tape on window. I see non-profits trying desperately to keep people alive despite cut after cut after cut. I see people with more than enough looking the other way not seeing those in my world. But.....they are here. They are us.

All education is an investment in the future, and a wise one at that. Unfortunately a few who post here attack public eduction because they see it only as expense and waste. For them it's an easy criticism to make, as they see only as far as their own hands. They are what they see, and thus, an obvious example that more investment is needed. I look forward to a day when these teabagers learn to eat with a fork and knife.

Again the people who say we can do more do not answer the question "Who can do more?" Well I am going to say to you all that the family of four with a gross income of $80,000.00 cannot pay more in taxes or more to nonprofits. When you combine all of the taxes paid (federal, state, property), plus private health insurance as i am selfemployed I cannot help anymore.

Now, many well say he makes enough money. Well no I do not. If you lose half to the above you still have your home to pay, utilities, autos, insurances, food and other daily needs. So to the bleeding hearts I cannot bleed anymore for you and your giveaways. I need tax relief to keep my dreams alive and my wish for the things I feel my children need.

i apologize about my remark about "tight fisted myopic teabaggers". i neglected to mention mean spirited.

I wonder how "chumby" proposes to foster a "wise" citizenry while opposing publicly funded education on principle. Fortunately, the concept of public education is not in dispute. As for flat wages and rising profits relative to rising productivity, that phenomenon has been noted by economists of all political persuasions as unique to the times. (It falls to policymakers to decide what to do about that.) Anecdotal exceptions are always at hand, but they do not refute national trends. Worker productivity is a measure, as objective as economists have, of WORKER productivity. It includes technological advances and should in no way diminish the contribution of capital and certainly not of small business owners in society. I am sure you are correct, that taxes paid by parents are insufficient to fund the public school system, as their taxes are commensurate with their income. (much like taxes paid by the elderly are insufficient to fund Social Security and Medicare, as taxes paid by the poor are insufficient to fund MaineCare, and as taxes paid by businesses are insufficient to fund vital infrastructure etc.). Your characterization of one who shuns work for the lazyboy, Bud Light and television is as absurd as it is insulting. Many of these people work, very hard, full-time for low wages. The few who game the system should not tarnish their contribution. Laying the responsibility of education at the feet of parents alone, while leaving in place the inadequate public policy framework that decimates their wages is short-sighted. Fortunately, in our enlightened community, the most fervent supporters of public education have no children, and are of very modest means.

humanbeing---Your so right!!!No one should judge another person until they have walked in there shoes.My niece works for a non-profit as yourself,she works hard and long hours to help the people in need.as you stated,the ones that take are small in numbers,it makes me wonder some times though.I live in a town,about 19 or 20 thousand in population,I would say roughly,a quarter of that population are takers,thats a good size number as far as I am concern.I have a child with metal illness,who I am raising my grandson because of her illness.We struggle everyday,just to survive.I know exactly what you are talking about.I say many times over THANK GOD for people like,the world is a better place because of you and your workers.I just wish the goverment and people could open there eyes and see where the money should go,for all concern.I comment on the Welfare System because we need to start some where.So many systems are broken down because of takers.Taxes will always be raised,sooner or later,why not now,when there are so many people in need

Has anyone heard if any State Capitol jobs were lost in the budget cuts????? I bet not, what about the Governors aids??? I bet not........

"Some of the state’s neediest residents also may feel the pinch"

Why not the Richest? Oh, that's right, Poor People don't contribute to Campaign Finance Funds.

backshore

You won't find one in America, and hold on because it's going to get even worse.

Things will Never Change until Campaign Finance is exclusively from the individual. Get big money out of it. They don't vote and when they put in there millions, our representatives turn into Their Representatives and the People are left without Representation. In fact, we get stabbed in the back!

"Tight-fisted teabaggers? I'm not a teapartier, but I do encourage anyone in the "you've got it, you should pay more" crowd to pay my tax bill.

Don't cut, just tax the people keeping this mess afloat more!? As one of that shrinking number of folks, I'm getting a little tired of the people sitting up on deck telling me I'm down here not rowing fast enough.

The most "socialized" strata of society is, by far, Wall Street. I have little patience for vitriol directed at schoolchildren, the working poor and disabled.

They are not going to stop till the whole world is Slaves and Slave drivers chumby. Pick your side, because the People are waking up!

How about cutting out some of the money that we provide to the hundreds of " non profits " that service all these programs for the State. Lets stop cutting the legs out from under State employees with unpaid days off and layoffs. Let the State employees in human services fight for their jobs by allowing them to perform the services that these non profits perform. There are millions out there just waiting to be picked up. Of course, if the legislature and the governor are afraid of the lobbyists for these groups, then this plan will not work. Buck it up legislature. Do the right thing for Maine and make cut where cuts should be made.

80,000.00??? That is not even chump change to Real Money. That is just more banging away at the middle class. I know it's a lot of money here, but in California you could not support a family of 4 in a rented house for 80k per year. I am not even speaking of 800k per year, why does it seem that some people can not grasp the idea that Real Money is much more then that, and power is even more then the money. Why else would a mayor spend a billion dollars to get a job he pays himself only 1 buck per year?? Power thats why. These CEOs of the Multi National Cooperations are making Millions even Billions and you should see THEIR tax bills. " Jun 28, 2007 ... Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary ." You won't see Bill Gates doing this because he is trying to drive down wages of white collar workers. Wake up my fellow Americans...Please, for our children and grandchildren.

Man that was close. I thought that welfare was going to take a hit, Now I can kick back and finish watching the game on my 52" flat screen and finish my twelve pack.

Feed the baby, too, Robpott. She's laying in the box the TV came in.

King B, is sure going out in a blaze of glory! People are gonna name schools after you some day Gov. Oh wait, there won't be any schools left. I'm just glad we're putting our money to good use, wellfare, meth. clinics, etc.....

The problem with raising taxes yet again, is that the funds usually get funneled to pet projects and special interest debacles (Dirigo Health...) My husband and I had just decided to stay in Maine for the long term, but as we own our business (the hardest hit for taxes) I just do not see how we can. Businesses are sprinting out of employer-unfriendly Maine. Maine's children are growing up an leaving for better jobs and opportunities. On top of all, we keep electing the same blithering idiots to keep running the State right into the ground. This used to be just a sad, sad situation. Now, it is terrifying. Every single Maine citizen's future is hanging in the balance, and most people just do not understand, or don't want to.

Exactly the point I was making in response to Oheathen. To many here in Maine that is alot of money. Well it is not. It is the low end of the strapped middle class. Maybe the state can get by with ten year old cars like most of us have to do. Of course in Maine if you collect all the welfare the state offers you will drive a mucher NEWER car.

Maineworkr: YOU ARE RIGHT - welfare should be the first to go - why hand out freebies when we cant afford to educate, all this is doing is creating more and more welfare SUCKERS. Darkmoon: clearly youre worried about losing your "share" of the welfare.

11:48 wrote"Has anyone heard if any State Capitol jobs were lost in the budget cuts????? I bet not, what about the Governors aids??? I bet not".......

That is so fine I had to borrow it for just one more time.

WOW<<<

Please dont tell me that I need to pay more taxes to help get this state out of debt. If 80,000 is nothing, than my 56,000 is peanuts! When my son calls and asks for 20 dollars to go buy groceries and I have to turn him down because ive only got 3 bucks left until friday it bugs me! He only makes 18,000 (gross) a year, he ended up going to a food pantry to get food, he doesnt qualify for food stamps and he has no health insurance.

My taxes have gone from 1400 to 2200 in 4 years, I cant pay much more, and I havent done anything to my home to make its value go up either. I hate living paycheck to paycheck, but after all the bills are paid the gas put in the cars and the groceries in the house theres nothing left. Some weeks we skip gas in one car or skimp on the groceries to put oil in the barrel. We arent the only ones living like this. I have a good job with benefits but my spouse is due to be laid off in a few weeks. Hopefully another job will be found soon, because we dont qualify for fuel assistance or food stamps.

Lets ease up on the older people and the handicapped and the school kids , lets concentrate more on the money pit called welfare. Someone said that there isnt many bleeding the system, you are wrong. There far more than anyone wants to believe that are bleeding the systam. I understand you cant take it away completely, but you can definately make it more strict. It will help, not cure the problem. Set some timelines and follow up on them. I recall a few years ago, some talk about welfare reform. Whatever happened to that? Did it go through, or fall by the wayside? Who do we talk to make welfare reform happen?

Now they need to cut dirigo.

I love how so many people on here are making suggestions about things that should be done in schools that are already being done. I am a teacher in a middle school in one of the larger cities around here.

Our thermostat is already set on 67. Kids are allowed to wear sweatshirts to school, although I have several students that either do not own them or do not bring them from home. They see our social worker to get appropriate clothing when Mom and Dad don't have the resources to send them to school dressed appropriately.

We don't have lunch aids other than the workers that actually serve the students lunch. Teachers rotate lunch duty so that there is always an adult in the cafeteria. The only one to one aids we have are for the severely disabled students that could not function in a classroom without the assistance. Hiring a one to one is usually a lot more cost effective than sending the child to a special school that would cost the tax payers a lot more money. Most of the text books we use now are also online.

Schools are more and more frequently using these online texts. One MLTI laptop with access to online texts is a lot cheaper than 8 subjects each with a $120 (yes, that's what most publishers are charging today and more) texts.

Teachers generally and I say generally because I know there are exceptions do not call in sick unless they are very ill because it is a TON of work to lay out substitute plans when you have to be out.

I know that the cuts in education next year are going to be absolutely devastating. I am truly concerned as to what this is going to do to education in our state. Maine students do extremely well when compared to their peers across the country. This is because Maine teachers are innovative and phenomenal at what they do. If you compare our states socio-economic status to the rest of the nation, you will see our kids out perform most of the other states that have a similar socio-economic status and we also out perform many states that are significantly better off. I just hope that we can maintain that status in the future.

Wjy not a tax increase Baldy you taxed everything else?

I just moved back here from CA they did this out there and the state still went bankrupt because they did not cut the spending inside of the state government. I was building a new dot building at the time and their maintance guys were still spending money everyday at hardware stores the admins were still ordering paper pencils pens new desks chairs and all the extras for the break rooms. And we all know they did not take a pay cut or lay off

Let some in the government live off unemployment and still feed their family. Lets cut the budget where it will not matter their salaries and benefit packages first then they will find a way to bring in more jobs and revenue for the rest of us and our kids will not suffer at school.

Oheathen you are wrong before the ecomony crashed out there 80,000 was able to support a family of 5. I did when I first moved there. The only reason I came back to this godforgetten state was I thought family helped family and The construction firm I worked of out there did all government work so we lost 1253 contracts in one week and the company laid off 458 members of management in one day including working superitendents in the field like me.

After getting here I was hit head on and have been stuck here waiting to heal and losing job offer after job offer out of state everyday where is the gov bringing those jobs here. Welfare go to kapart in bangor and look at the cars there they drive a better car then i did in CA and I made 140,00 a yr and the wife made 55,000 a yr but I knew that if I got laid off I would need the money they are not worried because their money will never run out just ge knocked up again and the state keeps paying spay and neuter the welfare suckers and it might help the budget no more free health insurance and rent and food and the lazy guy might shut off his flat screen and go get a job but probably not he will just go steal from those of us that work hard everyday and can not stay ahead .

Aspenpup 11/23/09 5:59 AM~ This state is already bankrupt. Those at the top haven't told us yet... and many here aren't smart enough to figure it out yet.

This is what happens when you leave store unattended.... It's a free for all and some workers steal from the till.

No-one takes care of your money like you can.

picturegal: If you're doing middle school, thank you for YOUR sevice! I don't think many people are saying we have too many in-service, classroom teachers. We're just tired of the creeping overhead that is making your job harder to support. Tell your NEA/NFT people to cut some folks loose!

Cut education spending but don't touch prohibition spending. That sacred cow never gets cut. Why should we pay law enforcement high salaries to spy on kids to regulate what they put in their own bodies? We should cut law enforcement and prison spending in half and quit babysitting drug users and let natural selection run its course. We can't afford it much longer.

We all want Economic Development, right? Well, the research says, that there is no better investment toward Economic Development ends than that in Education -- preK through post-graduate. (And, unlike TIFs, which are no more than a corporate welfare scheme, it is an asset a company who is moving on cannot take away with them when they go..) Further, the most effective education dollars are spent on faculty, and promoting low teacher/student ratios. Though I would have worded it differently, DisgustedAmerican is spot on...

On 11/23/09 at 1:22 PM, DisgustedAmerican wrote: Ohh yea cut Education spending and Public services ......2 issues that are a Republicans WET DREAM......Keep'm dumb and Poor....just the way the GOP LIKES!

oh yea, and keep'm scared of "them thar gays too"..that'll keepm'; voting against thier own interests on a continual basis.....NOW THAT is a Republican WET DREAM!!!

That's a Republican thing? So all the dumbing everything down to match the abilities of the lowest common denominator, driving equality of outcome to match the least, punishing success and encouraging people to live with what Uncle Sam gives them is a Republican ideal?

Maybe Ole JB should raise booze prices like he has cigarette prices that would surely bring in the bucks. Take away from education AGAIN that makes much more sense then to make the dude pay another 2 bucks for that 6pk/12pk on the way home from work every night! Do the math, imagine the increase in a week say nothing about a year.

Smokers pay almost $7 a pk and over $7 in some places but joe blow can stop into big apple or rite aid and grab a rack of beer for under 5 bucks. This state makes no friggin sense. See they make a ton of revenue on the booze and having well educated children well, who cares as long as its not costing the state anything or the upper class people in this state taxed just a smidge higher. Maine was a proud state once, now we are becoming just like the rest of the country, lets really grow a brain and re-elect the retard when his term is up!

As a relative said to me the other day,as we were talking politics,(she lives in NH) no offence,but Maine is going backwards instead of forward.So Sad!!!!

Ive finally figured out why Maine spends so much money to operate its shiny new prison in Warren and its state of the art courthouse in Bangor.

Incarceration is a growth industry.....and after they get done gutting all the schools,we're going to need all those prison cells.

Land of the free.....what a joke.

muget - I ponder how, something so key and vital, is something that falls way down on the list of items those “enlightened people choose to fund”, way below: NESN, Bud Light, donation to Obama campaign, and the new iPod so Maine Things Considered can be listened to on the go, etc. (generically referred to as lifestyle). I forgot to mention the one family also had multiple pets, a big screen tv, new leather couches, and were in a house that was like 3,000 sq ft (my family does quite fine in a 950 sq ft house). Regarding you being insulted, I’m not surprised since you are so close-minded to view your beliefs with objective eyes; I was merely relaying images from ALL of the tear-jerk stories that WABI broadcast last year. When I lived in public housing in a suburb of Bangor, most of the residents found time to smoke pot and drink beer (I paid full rent, by the way). My favorite was the mom that would sit outside and smoke weed while waiting for her daughter to come home from school. We think the defacto maintenance man “came in” the apartment a few times while we were gone (at work) – Chumby put a stop to that.

Our public education system has created a generation of people who are fully dependant on the government - I challenge you to defend that as being wise. I'll ask this as well - why do private schools and home-schooled children perform better on standardized tests while their per-student education costs are less? Does Bangor area really need $173M in new schools?

Oheathen – I choose self-determination.

humanbeing - I am not against helping and I do help. I am against government-run, institutionalized assistance that creates generations of government-provided services slaves. Currently, anywhere between 42% and 61% of the country does not pay its own way (in regard to taxes in versus services out). I find it incredulous that about half the country can’t make it on their own; I believe the number is somewhere in the less than 2% range. When you reward poor behavior, you see more of it.

humanbeing:

I also forgot to mention that when we lived in the public housing, many (not just one or two, as you contend) had air conditioners and satellite tv dishes. Unfortunately, the liberal mindset in this country is riddled with materialism and until people people understand that much of their financial problems are due to poor lifestyle choices, they will always have problems no matter how much wealth redistribution occurs from financially conservative people into their coffers. People spend their money on crap and do not invest/save/insure for the emergencies that don't occur often but do occur; when the emergencies do occur, their first instinct is to find the nearest person with anything (look at them, they have a new car -or- they can afford to vacation in Florida, that money should be sued for me) to fund their inexcusable irresponsibility.

Regarding your 3-year old, where are the parents? Grandparents? Aunts? Uncles? See, some of the money my family saves is for situations such as these (in our family). I also failed to mention that the money you want to take and give to all these people for doing nothing, the money we earn through hard work and toil, is also earmarked for college tuition, retirement, and self-insuring for emergencies. I'm glad you self-appointed yourself to declare that our children's education, our retirement, and our emergencies are unimportant and therefore require no money.

double the tax on soda

Centaurmyst why not tax soda and candy?

Make everyone quit smoking because they wont be able to afford a pack of butts and you will get no taxs coming in...... Indiots