This is a big mistake. Why bother building a replacement if all you're going to do is take seats AWAY? The building will not attract many more acts than it does now. Also, it is essential for a new arena to have ice.

As it stands, the powers that be have not presented a particularly persuasive argument to build a new arena. With this the case, a wholesale renovation of the current building would be more advisable.

And the city needs to scrap the plan to have pedestrians bridges. They are not necessary.

As for a new arena being the largest construction project in the city's history, what about Hollywood Slots or the Bangor Mall? Methinks the reporter got caught up in the moment of arena committee members patting themselves on the back and declaring how wonderful they are.

What a WASTE of money!!!!!! $73 million gets you 5,400 seats........WOW!

This needs to be a REFERENDUM brought before Bangor voters!!! Bangor will regret this project if THIS proposal comes to fruition.

I say spend a few million and renovate the Auditorium........new roof, more restrooms, more concessions, and new seats.

When political hacks talk about their 'vision' it's usually more of a wet dream that will cost taxpayers a fortune.

You said it. Sounds like the Bangor City Council is going rogue!

Smaller seating capacity than the Auditorium. No ice. No skyboxes.

But hey......you get an indoor heated walkway to Hollywood Slots and a ballroom for ???? Not to mention a brand new "convention center" for all of those conventions that will pour into the city once this project is completed. All for the low, low price of $73 MILLION plus annual maintenance expenses.

This half-baked plan WILL NOT attract grade A concerts, few grade B concerts, and no ice shows, figure skating competitions, or hockey games of any kind..........WHY even build a new facility?????????????

Well I guess its time to move away from Bangor . Can you say higher taxes ! I'd call it the White Elephant Arena. Good luck people of Bangor.

Amen! The PEOPLE'S VETO has a nice ring to it.

Maybe it can be funded by further increases in the price of a soda pop. NOT.

Do you think that the Irish Rovers and Myron Floren will play the new arena?

All those in favor go to city hall sign up for it so YOUR taxes can go up. What a punch in the face, stab in the back and proof that this is a corrupt government we have. Clean out city hall now. Boycott it and Hollywood slots

a small arena for a small city...makes sense to me.

Bad location, too small, and over-priced. Why isn't UMO looking to partnering up with the city?

Take a look at the Spokane Arena for guidance; twice the seating, professional hockey, great concert venue.

http://www.spokanearena.com/generalinfo.php

Council member Stone wants to "publicly" thank the committee? It's nice to see something happening in public, even if it is a ridiculous decision like this one. There needs to be a referendum before this moves forward. The voters have not been consulted on the auditorium.

Start over Bangor

For Just like the current National Healthcare Debate

Something Is NOT RIGHT with This

Evidenced by So Much Discontent

Wait there will not be an ice surface? What a huge mistake. Once again you are spending money on something that will not have the full functionality of nearly all modern arena's. And why they do not put in 10-20 luxury boxes is beyond me. And why 5400 seats? If the city coucnil truly believes this will work then they must believe that Bangor will boom, thus plan for the future. 5400 seats is fine now, but 10 years down the road it will be outdated and not fit this "vision" this city must have if they are going ahead with a 73 million dollar arena. In my opinion an arena is fine, but if they are just going to do it half arsed then why bother?

Does anyone know how to get a peoples veto on this, i can try to get this going. please advis ty

Looks good from Brewer. LOL

I agree - no ice? Not really an upgrade from the current auditorium. Glad I won't be paying for it.

I am all for a new arena and convention center. However, it needs to have a large seating capacity and capability for having an ice floor. If we are to have a new arena, it might as well be a good one. Spend $100 Million and get something that will attract venues.

Im not sure how all you people think this should be larger then 5400 seats. Just because the current building has more doesnt mean anything. Should the new Area have the same roof line because the first building did, no. The Collisee in Lewiston only has around 3600 seats. They have top performers that show up. They have more people and very rarely sell out a hockey game there. The hope is every event would sell out, but thats not going to be happen. With more seats the initial price goes up. The cost to clean, heat and maintain those additional seats are another added cost. I think 5400 sounds good. Im not sure how I feel about the need for a new arena. Im leaning toward that their is no time like the present. Just think maybe we could get a top tier performer to close out the folk festival at the new arena, not free though. Just a thought. Im interested to see where this goes.

I see ice as a waste of money and I don't support it. There is plenty of ice already - Sawyer, brewer, UMO, and countless lakes and ponds in the area (for the glory-days adult leagues)

If the old arena can be rehabbed for office space why can't it be rehabbed and remain an arena? This is just like all the new schools in the state that are replacing old schools that could be rehabbed. It will be paid for the same way too. Yes some money will come from Bangor but the majority will come out of everyone's pockets when the state and federal government ante up their share.

Proceed with the recall....QUICK!!!

Gee, the city forces us to go to Boston and Portland Airports and now they are forcing us to go to Boston and Portland to see "GOOD" shows. And if they name it the Sawyer Civic Center, I'm moving.

i wonder if all the homeless people living under bridges will be able to see the nice big very expensive site goes up. seems like there are those who control the city don't really want our input, just pat each other on the back, what a shame this state is becoming.

Wow, not too many positive comments here......when you step back and see who the real beneficiary of events at the auditorium, new or old is Hollywood Slots....I would suggest we turn this whole opportunity over to them and let them build a facility, pay for it, manage it, and move forward. My taxes have almost doubled over the past six years....please....I'm scared as hell.

Just don't let any architects named "Tarbell" near this project.

And beyond my last comment about turning the project over to Hollywood Slots, throw in the golf course as a deal maker...they can count on all proceeds from the Muni as long as they agree to build a new club house with all of the amenities, beautiful locker rooms for members and non members, large 19th Hole and a restaurant, a few small meeting rooms and make it a destination.....all tied into the new auditorium and the slots parlor. And beyoud that lets' make it very easy for them to build a large boat docking facility along the river and let them develop the water front......all great things for them to have to enhance their operation......think resort people......

This is consistent with Bangor's major industry - attracting people from outside Bangor to come to Bangor and drop some dollars and that's Ok - nobody is being robbed at gunpoint, they come (well, maybe not always the husbands) of their own free will. But like Slots, it barely meets the definition of "economic development". Maybe the days of "making things" are over, but gee, don't we have to come up with some real economic development at some point? We need some smokestacks, with modern green stack-scrubbers, of course!

The solution to everything right now is Wind Mills. I think with the height of the new arena and the location in the city putting 10 wind mills on the top will pretty much pay for it self. No need to higher taxes, just equallity. So if you have a problem, no real need to worry wind mills are the answer.

The city NEEDS a new arena and has for 25 years. Just not THIS one. Can anyone name me a modern arena in the USA (built within the last 10 years) that does not have Ice and skyboxes? I can't think of any. In the 70's and early 80's the existing BA did host A-list acts as I have said before. The reason it stopped doing so was due to larger, more modern arenas that had a higher seating capacity stealing their shows. As I have sid many times on this subject, if there were 8K FIXED seats at the new arena in Bangor, it would represent the largest arena in Maine and thus attract top-tier shows. I have also stated that I am no longer a resident of Bangor but do realize that the citizens of Bangor cannot be on the hook for the lion's share of the cost of this project. There is a history leason that is not being adhered to in the existing BA. When it was built it was an extremely ambitiuos project. With 6k FIXED seats it was the 2nd largest arena in New England. There were not many rock concerts, minor league anything, no magor college sports in that era. With that being said why did they build it? By the time the BA was 20 years old its best days were behind it. I'm thinking if this new arena is built as proposed a similar fate awaits this project due to capacity issues. Unless this proposed arena can have the capacity of FIXED seats expanded in the future I would NOT support this project. I would travel the 2plus hours any day to see a show at the new arena provided it could draw someone that I deemed worthwhile. I'm pretty sure it won't in this configuration and I'm truly sorry to say that. PS any word on whether the FIXED seating capacity could be expaned in the future PJ? Thanks.

It won't work at any amount of seating, the city is rushing it thinking/knowing the the slots revenue is going to shrink once more competition come to the state AND THEY WILL COME. The price of concerts these days doesn't warrant a new arena that is not being used now. Who in the heck would want to come to bangor to see a show.

everyone name the acts you'd like to see in Bangor AND LETS START WITH STEVE63

vote it down people it will be a HUGE HUMONGEST COLOSOL BIG LOOSER but who on the council isn't on this subject

money sucker project

Oh by the way no outside promoting company would come and manage with out a huge fee cause they would see this as nothing but a loser but would be ale to get some there LOL

GOOD LUCK

I think the space needle was a better idea than this. At least that one says we are all crazy, bring on the space needle.

ryanrobbins - There will be the infrastructure for ice, but not an ice surface. That will be on hold until it is needed. As it has been said before, there is plenty of ice in the greater Bangor area. The current structure had ice an one time. It was not used enough to warrant the service and maintenance costs.

This is the largest city project in Bangor's history - not the largest construction project.

mainejeff - we could have 20,000 seats, but with a low to moderate population density we will not get the "A" concerts. Semi-pro hockey is not coming, UMaine hockey is not coming. The 7,000 to 7,400 seats (with sky boxes) is a step up from out current venue.

mpt1964 - UMO has said no - repeatedly. Bangor has a reputation of not supporting semi-pro anything. As far as Spokane - with a population of over 200,000 - you are talking apples and oranges. The venue is great and the semi-pro hockey is good. But not real concerts on schedule through April. Granted, they do have Larry the Cable Guy ($43.75 per ticket) and Jeff Dunham, puppet master ($42.50).

mtaylor - with no funds coming from the feds, state or county and the council trying to keep the promise of no tax increases, where is the extra $40-million coming from? The population density of Eastern and Northern Maine does not justify a $100-million facility.

I have sat through most of the Arena Implementation meetings. In many cases there were maybe, five spectators in the audience. Everyone had a chance to voice their opinion. Not many did.

The analysis put forth by ERA/AECOM was far more detailed than the few column inches that the BDN reported. The misinformation regarding seating is the BDN's fault. The actual recommendation calls for a facility that will seat 6,300 for basketball, 7,000 for concerts and 7,400 for small stage acts. This includes "sky box" seating and more handicapped seating.

As for the sky bridges, even the general manager of Hollywood Slots stated that if Phase 2 could begin earlier without the sky bridge - skip the bridge for now.

It has always been a given that the convention center provides more revenue than the arena. The convention center will be the financial draw that will bankroll the operating expenses of the arena. It would be nice to have a 12,000 seat arena. But it will not draw concerts, shows or sporting events to Bangor. We do not have the population density to justify it. We will not fill a venue of that size.

mpt1964

Population Spokane Washington 202,319

Population Density 3,387.0/sq mi (1,307.7/km2)

Metro Population 600,152

Seating Capacities:

End Stage Concert 360: 12,638

End Stage Concert 270: 12,124

End Stage Concert 180: 11,874

Hockey: 10,440

Basketball: 12,210

Half House: 6,951

Center Stage Concert: 12,494

Star Theatre: 5,900

Population of Bangor Maine 31,473 (city proper)

Population Density 913.5/sq mi (352.7/km2)

Metro Population 148,000

Based on your example of the Spokane Arena. If you wanted a comparable seating based on the population, Bangor should be looking at a seating capacity of 1,966 seats maximum.

BernieMad - two outside promotion companies have already expressed an interest in working with the new arena. The Bangor Auditorium has never made a profit. The convention center does help to offset those losses.

JD2008 - good stats - good point.

PJ ramsey thanks for your input. What you mentioned sounded much better and makes me wonder about BDN reporting. Sounds like they left out a few important items.

I hope things work out and this is a success.

It's my understanding there will be a blank wall at one end of "The U," let's get Norm Martin down there to paint a mural of Ed Barrett.

Holy smoke (and mirrors) BDN-man. Who is going to be able to fill this thing up? What are they willing to pay? And why does the city need to be the own/operator? We are beginning to see more private enterprizes running better business, for less money, at a higher quality - whenever government lets that happen. Why not "Hollywood on the River" as mentioned by tcollins. Slots/convention/golf - even some outdoor winter activities?? Seems to make sense to this simple minded old guy from away. Before we can get people to come here and leave their money, they have to have a reason to get here. Slots are apealing to one group of people. Golf is appealing to one group of people. Concerts are appealng to one group of people. Wandering, shopping, outdoor sports, cruises, and more are appealing to certain groups of people. Why not plan big Bangor? Show us a dream that makes sense. Plan within the boundries of reality. Give me a reason to be excitied about a small part of the project.

By the way -- a sky-bridge??? Come on people, crossing Main Street isn't really all that big of a deal is it?? and Dutton?? Even in the largest of cities there are no skybridges from their stadiums and arenas - unless they're crossing the interstate. They want people to wander. They want people to spend. They want people to venture "off the path".

Come On COUNCIL - THINK,think,think,think,think,think,think,think,think.

I guarantee, at some point in the future they will impose a city sales tax in order to pay for this.

JD2008 presents those in 'la la land' the reality too many are refusing to accept: Bangor is a small city living in the past. The world has changed! When the BA was built in the 1950's Bangor was the hub or an economic engine that gave city of Millinocket the Highest per capita income in all of New England. Populations in cities from Caribou to Waterville had populations that supported class A HS sports programs and populations that could and did fill events at the BA (but even then, not Ice Events). That is yesterday, today Millinocket is class D, Waterville class B, brewer class b, the county all class b, c or d. Bangor has less people today than they did 25 years ago! Small cities must act like small cities unless they can prove they are changes their demographics to become larger and Bangor has done NOTHING to affect real change. Show me even the potential for economic growth and I will support funding public infrastructure but I see none. Look at Portland, 5 years ago Libra Foundation offered to grant the city millions of dollars in seed money for a new Civic Center/Convention Center and they turned them down in spite of the need for a replacement to the CCCC. Why? Despite demonstrated real economic growth and a massive growth in Population in Cumberland and York counties, the council did not want to create millions of dollars in debt. My guess the citizens of Portland are very happy today the council made that decision as they try to fathom their share of the states $40 million decrease in school funding.

Good analysis, tommie. You are using a good analogy to describe the insidious (economic) results of the decline of Bangor's major source of wealth, the forest products industry, and its slow-motion effect on Bangor, once known as Lumber Capital of the World. And I'm afraid the effects are far from over - they are so deeply ingrained.

thanks you Tommie. Very good statement. A person just has to look around the state to see the reality of the economics in Maine. A person has to live outside of the Maine bubble for a while, and then come back with a fresh outlook. Not going to happen though.

I don't want us to spend this much money and only get something smaller than what we already have. So if the economics of the deal prohibit getting an arena with greater seating, my vote would be to band-aid the current facility. certainly not spend THAT much money for something shiny and new, and smaller.

As soon as this goes to approval for city council i will get ahold of ten people that will be willingly to sign a paper to get a petiition started and get this on the referendum. We dont need a new arena, all we need is a new Bass Park director

We must not allow this new arena to happen. I hope that the City of Bangor will listen to its people. We don't want a 75 million dollar arena that doesn't have enough fixed seats or ice. Having ice is key. You can offer so much more and even public ice skating at a fee. Come on Bangor! Think down the road.

The city of Bangor really needs some new leadership. The city council is a joke! We can do better than this!

DanielSchwartz, We cant do anything until after the council approves it then I need or someone needs to get ten people to sign a petition to get a petition going. Real sad isnt it, but after that we need 2286 signatures of Bangor voters to sign it to get it on a referendum

So everyone that thinks 5,400 seats is "big enough"........are you willing to come out and support this $73 million investment???? You guys keep coming up with silly statements, population densities, etc..........but none of you has stated "I support this $73 million project 100%. Do YOU???????

What happened to the HOK study and plan that the city paid $100K for?

Jeff, by these comemnts today looks like no approves it. Sucks to be the city council, i wouldnt want to be on it, i would be the odd vote every time

Mudboginmainer, what "top performers" have performed in Lewiston? Did Hall and Oates, Jethro Tull, or Garth Brooks ever perform in Lewiston? I don't believe so. It's not surprising a junior hockey team rarely sells out in Lewiston, either. Nobody in Maine cares about junior hockey. Lewiston belongs in the Portland market, where the Portland Pirates are the thing. Up here, the Maine Black Bears rule.

I know UMaine has said it is not interested in relocating the hockey team. The reality, though, is Alfond Arena is outdated itself. It is an atrocious venue whose only value is sentimental. Bangor needs to get UMaine on board for a new Bangor arena as an anchor tenant.

To have any chance of being viable in today's traveling entertainment shows, Bangor needs 7,000 fixed seats.

If the city is not going to do it right, it should opt to expand and renovate the current Auditorium. This would involve replacing the bleachers with seating like the Augusta Civic Center's fold-away seating, ripping out the wooden seats and replacing them with wider, modern seats, and widening the rows. Because these seating improvements would reduce the current Auditorium's capacity, it would be necessary to expand, which could be done by building out toward Dutton Street.

pjramsay wrote: BernieMad - two outside promotion companies have already expressed an interest ----Now would they do a % or do you think they'd want a fee of like 500,000 to 1,000,000 I mean come on they will be intrusted with a 100,000,000 dollar building before they are done. with a 1% thats not bad of course history will repeat it self well if they make it our of trees it might help the economy :) I will take all bets it will not or ever make a profit bangor doesn't warrant a concerto/convention center unless they already want to MORE money :) again good luck all it will not be worth the headache but will be nice to see it implode.......

Bangor doesn't have the population base to draw 7000 people to a concert - you're kidding yourself if you think that there are 7000 people in this area who are going to fork over $75/ticket to see even second class performer. There may be plenty of country fans, but most of them are broke. And enough about the ice already - Bangor is already flooded with ice. We don't need to build an arena so that 40 year old guys can re-live their high school years.

ryanrobbins - the proposed structure will have 7,000 seats for concerts and 7,400 seats for a small stage events.

mainjeff - The Convention Sports and Leisure (CSL) report (10/27/2002) and the the ERA/AECOM (08/03/2009) analysis both stated that "the Greater Bangor area could support a 7.500-seat arena." The 2002 estimate for the arena was estimated at $30-million, the 2009 estimate is $55-million. The $73-million is for the entire complex including the Civic Center.

CSL (HOK were the designers) also stated that the city "would undoubtedly need a main tenant to lease the new building to make the project viable." There are no viable "main tenants." Both analysis went into great detail as to how they determined what size structure would be affordable and utilized.

After reading both reports and a myriad of other information (I have quite a file), I believe that the suggestions and recommendations of the Arena Implementation Committee are sound. I wish we had the capability to support a 9 to 12,000-seat arena, but we don't.

I believe that the cost of rehabbing and/or expanding the current structure was pricing in the low to mid $30-million.

I await mainejeff and ryanrrobbins market analysis before I make up my mind. But based on conclusive data drawn by two reputable company's, I will be leaning towards the committee's recommendations.

Good luck Pjr this will go up for voters too. I believe i can get over three thousand signatures just on this one referendum

I'm glad i dont live in Bangor

BernieMad - it is possible that these management firms would assist ( pro bono) during the design phase. This was discussed at last nights meeting (recommendation number 6). These management companies believe that their assistance could garner them favor in regards to a management contract.

Free is good - right Bernie???

A small arena sprouts from small minds. 7,500 permanent seats or don't bother building it. Personally, I think we need an fully operational airport before we worry too much about this arena. A total of 5 daily flights to 3-4 destinations is hardly an airport - just a landing strip. Without a functional airport you'll never attract new or existing corporations to invest in the area. For those who say you'll never fill more than 5,400 seats; low population density; etc. - how is it that they draw 80,000+ people to an outdoor venue up at Magnetic Hill in New Brunswick once or twice a year?

The architects and consultants test the waters with the city government and then give them a plan that is sellable - it has nothing to do with if it's correct or not - just what can be "sold" to the city council. Having a 90% chance of designing/building a 5,400 seat arena is worth a lot more to them than a 50% chance of selling the city a 7,500 seat project. It's all about what they think they can sell the small minded city council in Bangor. These are the same councilors who are content to watch the airport die on the vine because they don't have the guts to fire the current director and find a new one with vision and contacts. Nuff said.

This is actually a bigger step backwards than most people realize, since the OLD Auditorium did have ice-making capabilities. The pipes to run the coolant are under the concrete and the huge compressor to run the system is still in the bowels of the building. Seems the City leaders that built the old Auditorium didn't take the time to research the dimensions of a hockey rink before building, and a sheet of ice the size of a basketball court is not of much use to anyone. The current City Council hasn't done much better. Without the capacity needed to attract big time shows, this building will contribute no more to the city's economy than the 'Barn on Buck St.' already does.

The Pontiac Silverdome cost $56 million to build in the mid 70's. Last week it sold at auction for $583,000. These arenas don't always work out.

dkenzie77 - If I were a betting man, I might have to take you up on that.

Thus far, the projected cost will not be carried by the taxpayers of Bangor. I hope it stays that way. But until the Feds, state, county or neighboring towns pony up some cash - it will be a Bangor project. Thus far I haven't seen any other town jump up and volunteer to build their own arena. If and when the Corinth Coliseum or the Winterport Expo breaks ground, I will gladly keep my mouth shut.

Our taxes go up regardless evey year because bangor needs something new. You sure you dont wanna bet

Excellent plan Bangor! Go for it!

Pjramsay, I said a new arena would need at least 7,000 fixed seats. The proposed 5,400 fixed seats is woefully inadequate to justify a new building.

As for claims Bangor doesn't have the population to support a 7,000-seat arena, people are forgetting that Bangor is a hub for all of central, eastern, and northern Maine. People WILL travel to Bangor to see a good concert or show. Look at how many people Phish got to travel to Limestone.

I do not support building a new arena if the city is going to waste money on fewer seats with no ice. I think UMaine will come around in due time on moving the hockey team(s), as the school does not have money to build a new arena. Alfond is now a relic.

And no, there is not enough ice in this area. Who thinks hockey players or skaters enjoy having to practice at ridiculous hours in the morning? There are really only two rinks available to the public: the one in Brewer and Sawyer Arena in Bangor.

ryanrrobbins - we can't build in hopes that others will come around. We have to build within our means and capabilities. It is a sad truth, but truth just the same. Our population base has not increased between the two analysis (2002 vs. 2009). The economy certainly hasn't rebounded either. It is what it is.

dkenzie77 - Bangor's property taxes have not gone up. No other city taxes have gone up either. The state on the other hand, well, that is a totally different story.

Just build the freaking thing. I really believe Bangor can attract the numbers to make it viable. Bangor is not just Bangor. We draw from all over Eastern, Northern and Central Maine and the Maritimes. The Naysayers are stuck in a time warp. I refuse to attend events at the "Aud". It is uncomfortable and a complete turn off.

Bangor once attracted top talent acts, then it became an antique...

Scodud, what top events have bangor attracted. Come on Wwe used to come every year, not now. Portland gets american idol, what do we get, nothing that is right nothing. I think the most bangor has had here worth going to was , and i forgot the name lol Let me think what that was

Pjramsay, if there's no ice, then there's no reason to build a new arena. I'm not in favor of the current proposal. We need more seats, ice, and a tenant (UMaine). Then I will support a new arena. As it stands, we would be better off renovating and expanding the current building. Anything else at this point would be wasting money.

PJ- your 4:25pm post stated that one of the studies concluded that the Greater Bangor area could support a 7500 seat arena. Why is it such a stretch to go from 5400 fixed seats to 7500 fixed seats? This seems to a minor "sticking" point when the total price tag will only increase 7 to 10%. If there is even a chance that the larger version will draw bigger concerts and shows it is worth this modest increase in the total cost of the project IMO. I'm with mainejeff on this one. Is there anyone out there who thinks it's better to spend 55M on 5400 seats rather than 59M on 7500 seats? I think it's a no brainer. PJ, were you able to find out about future expansion of the FIXED seating capacity?

$73 MILLION.........for a 5,400 seat arena........LOL.

Still no posters coming out and stating........I FULLY SUPPORT SPENDING $73 MILLION ON A NEW 5,400 SEAT ARENA."

Relax people. This arena will have 7400+ seats for a concert venue. This arena will be equipped in all areas. The whole complex (the new arena, the old barn, the office buildings, the civic center convention areas, the grand stand, the raceway, the paul bunyan park, the gazebo concerts, the skate park, the skywalks into Hollywood Slots Casino) kinda makes the Cumberland County Civic Center a little boring, don't you think? It will be the biggest entertainment complex in the state if not northern New England. Relax, the top acts will come and the Folk Festival will benefit and Bangor will benefit. Keep moving forward. Kudos to the Bangor Arena Committee. This is perfect. I really like the idea of having a top performer close the festival every year. And I have no problem wearing a 'PAID' sticker instead of a 'I DONATED' sticker. What's the damn difference? Three dollars for three days and a top notch close. At this year's festival there was 70,000+ the first day. At three dollars a sticker, that would bring $210,000 in donations, maybe more. I think we all need to think positive and move this city forward even more. And the jobs created are needed. Once again, Bangor will be abuzz with jobs in the creation of Bass Park 2011, any many more after it premieres. The whole complex will indeed be big progress on a vision for this city as a mecca for Central, Eastern, and Northern maine. Get it done, Bangor.

pjramsey- one question for you, how do you explain the 160,000 people over 3 days every August in Bangor enjoying musical acts? Where did they come from if Bangor can't draw even 10,000 people for a show? I mean, i am there at the festival every year and I wonder when people who say Bangor can't draw over Portland if I should have my hearing checked. The first day this year we drew 70,000+ people to Bangor to hear mid-level acts. How do you explain that? Hmmmmm? Does Portland draw that much? I'm confused... The population of Bangor during the day is over 100,000 alone, so if this is not people coming to Bangor then they must be ghosts... he he he. I think people who don't realize should not make decisions.

tommie-you have little vision. I imagine with you're attitude, you lay back and let the grass grow until your neighbors complain. Bangor may not be BIG, but it is incredibly vast, and it is the only place in Maine where people are thinking out of the box and growing at a much faster pace then many cities under 50,000. The thing you don't understand, or maybe YOU are stuck in the fifties, is that Bangor is one of the fastest growing small cities in the nation. Do your research and you will learn it is one of the best places to live in the nation. It is 4th on the list of safest, and even Business Week, Forbes, Travel, Living Mag have all put Bangor in the top brackets as far as quality of life. One of the top school systems in the country. The largest public library north of Boston, the biggest Children's museum north of Boston, a shopping mecca with all the store chains of Portland, close to Maine's only National Park, should I continue because the list is pretty BIG... i think your mind has gotten smaller since the fifties dude...

Terence, fixed seating is what matters when it comes to attracting shows. As it stands, the current plans would not make a new arena larger than the Cumberland County Civic Center. It would be significantly smaller and lacking ice. The Folk Festival will not benefit because the event does not use indoor venues. And the festival has never attracted 70,000 patrons in a single day, nor in three days. (The festival organizers do not actually count heads and they have no way of determining actual individuals who have attended.

This arena proposal is far from perfect. It's terrible. It offers nothing beyond what the current building offers and it calls for ridiculous and totally unnecessary sky bridges. Why in the world does the committee think there needs to be a bridge over Main Street to Hollywood Slots? It's not for parking -- there's plenty of that in Bass Park. If there is such a desperate need for a bridge (and there's not), let Hollywood Slots pay for building it and maintaining it.

HORRIBLE mistake. This plan is a complete and total waste of money. Putting in an arena that is smaller and has less seating than the current arena is blatant idiocy. Stupid...and if this foolish plan actually is built with a smaller arena, no ice and less seats I will cease to attend ANY even held on that property. I'd rather see them tear the old one down and not have an arena at all than to watch them WASTE all that money building a crap arena that will continue to attract crap events and performers.

It should be bigger because years ago when it was one of the biggest in the state it attracted all the top performers...until Portland built a newer and bigger arena. And anyone who claims that the arena can't be filled or that only country acts would fit the population is full of poo right up to their eyebrows. Just a couple of towns away from Bangor sits the most highly populated college in the entire state. There are several other colleges in the area as well. Less seats, no ice and ridiculous foot bridges to Hollywood Slots, larger and fancier convention center being the focus....sounds to me like this is all about trying to lure more gambling addiction victims to Bangor and give them a cool heated bridge to check out as a way to lure them into the casino and destroy their lives. If there is a citizen effort made to prevent this particular plan from going through I will gladly sign any petition. I would be fine with a new arena if it has 10k PERMANENT seats, ice and there is NO foot bridge, because that is what would be best for the citizens of Bangor. If Hollywood Slots wants to put in a foot bridge and pay for it themselves, whatever, but do NOT skimp on the seating to put that in out of town money!

Can anyone Could someone find a city of comparable size and population density with an arena that has 7400+ fixed seats.

Can anyone find a city of comparable size and population density to Bangor that has an arena that has 7400+ fixed seats?

JD2008...

Allen, TX did it right. Bangor wants to do it WRONG.

http://alleneventcenter.net/index.html

When the allen event center was in the planning stage the population was about 10k more than Bangor. Allen, TX had vision and thought of the future. Bangor seems stuck in the past and the people making these plans have no vision at all other than tunnel vision right across a foot bridge into Hollywood Slots. It's ridiculous.

after reading the story in bgr daily about the american folk festival undisclosed losses paid for by bangor taxpayers how could anyone think that they could get an honest answer on actual costs from officials in bgr goverment.Just this summer it was printed that the annual folk festival lost money on the event but somehow failed to mention that it was some several hundred thousand dollars in debt from the previous actually every one of them lost money! Then it was printed that hollywood slot tax dollars were not going to cover the costs of the new arena not the case a few yrs ago ..yet they still study new ways to fund it ,this is going to come down to taxpayers paying for something that they never voted on and even if they do vote and reject it you can be sure it will be on the ballots in the comming years until you get so sick of seeing it or maybe they can word it some kind of confusing way that you might not even to be able to tell if you voted for it or against it.Someone makes money on these studies you know and someone else studies ways to manipulate us into thinking the way they want us too!..which study are we on now.

Maybe Bangor should start holding some Vision for the Future Workshops.

Be serious Centaurmyst.....do you realy beieve this city is comparable to Bangor:

"Allen is a city in Collin County, Texas, United States, and a wealthy northern suburb of Dallas. As of the 2000 census, the city had a total population of 43,554. As of 2007, the city's population is estimated at 77,644. According to the city’s most recent Comprehensive Annual Financial Report, the city’s various funds had $160.9 million in Revenues, $105.6 million in expenditures, $654.8 million in total assets, $125.6 million in total liabilities, and $42.5 million in cash and investments. "

The population of the city was 31,473 at the 2000 census

Budget 88,702,000.

Given Allen'd new area will hold 7400, I would guess Bangor might be able to build, let's see? A 3,500 seat facility.

Get real people! there is not a city of Bangor's size, that is not within another citiy's metro area, with a 10,000 seat arena. Allen is a suburb of Dallas, and rich one to boot.

clarifcation:

The population of the city of Bangor was 31,473 at the 2000 census ; Budget 88,702,000.

Here is a bit more about the Allen Event Center

"In July of 2008, construction of the Allen Event Center began along the southeast corner of US 75 and Stacy Road inside the Village at Allen shopping district. Upon its completion in late 2009, the venue will total 188,000 square feet with capacity for 8,600 seats (6,275 fixed), 26 suites and two ice rinks. The project is among the first in the Collin County area in that marks a joint venture between Global Entertainment Corporation, The MGHerring Group and the City of Allen. The center will serve home to concerts, trade shows, professional sporting events, festivals, community ceremonies and a Central Hockey League (CHL) franchise.

Global Entertainment Corporation is an integrated events and entertainment company. Through its wholly owned subsidiaries, it is involved in sports management and the development of multi-purpose Event Centers and related real estate entertainment districts. Other GEC subsidiaries include International Coliseums Company, Global Entertainment Marketing Systems, Global Entertainment Ticketing and Encore Facility Management."

So let's compare and contrast the The Allen Events Center and The Civic Center

Allen was built in 2008 during a growth phase for the City of Allen. Bangor is looking to build while the population of Penobscot Couny is declining 1.15% (Source - http://www.censusscope.org/us/s23/rank_popl_growth.html)

Allen is a joint venture between Global Entertainment Corporation, The MGHerring Group and the City of Allen. The City of Bangor (at this point) is going it alone.

But here is where the differences between Allen, Tx and Bangor, ME really jump off the page.

Allen, TX - Estimated median household income in 2007: $93,392 (it was $78,924 in 2000)

Bangor, ME - Estimated median household income in 2007: $35,865 (it was $29,740 in 2000)

Allen, TX - Estimated per capita income in 2007: $34,656

Bangor, ME - Estimated per capita income in 2007: $24,898

Allen, TX - Estimated median house or condo value in 2007: $180,800 (it was $142,200 in 2000)

Bangor, ME - Estimated median house or condo value in 2007: $135,444 (it was $83,800 in 2000)

The other thing to note is Allen is a suburb of Dallas. Bangor IS the hub not the suburb.

I wonder how well the Allen Events Center is doing. The event calendar shows one event in December - Charlie Daniels Band and one event in February (over two days) Extreme Ice Racing. Both of these events are Global Entertainment Corporation events. Nothing else is booked for this cite.

Based on what I have read I do not think I will be supporting the plan as presented. I really believe our best option would to build and arena comparable to August, mayve utilizing a revamped BA as the starting point. I can really see how we could fill more than 4000-5000 seats often enough to pay for the facility.

Hey JD, Why do you think it is that the population of Bangor remains stagnant or as some would argue is in decline. IMO, it's due to poor econmic development and the aging population bases refusal to change with the times in both vision and attitude. Many posters on this site are unbelievably cynical and change averse. I grew up in Bangor and I would estimate I probably have 10% of my friends still there because it really doesn't offer much in the way of city amenities. Let me ask you, any new hotels, office buildings, marina's on that beautiful waterfront planned or in the works? Probably not I'm guessing. Any new big business planning to move into Bangor? I doubt it... When looking at the big picture, this new arena project is a step in the right direction and needs to be done. It means that the city is willing to do SOMETHING to draw people into the area to spend $ and perhaps attract some new businesses. Whether the new arena itself "turns a profit" or not is a typical short-sighted barometer of of its value to the city. What it may lack in balance sheet productivity will more than be made up for by people from all over Maine spending their $ in the city's restaurants,retail outlets, and yes even Slots. I don't particularly like THIS proposed arena project. But, the fact that they are about to do something should bode well for the city's future. To do NOTHING will ensure that the cynical "do nothings" will remain happy, the population will continue to age and decline and the city will remain the sleepy little town it has been for the last 25 years or so.

Steve63

Steve63,

Take a few minutes to and rad the internet...google "sports arenas economic development". If you read the articles objectively you will see that arenas do not increase economic development. Cities that build business parks with hign technology access, that seek out technolgy businesses with a TIF and other incentives create economic development. There is not a business of any value that would move to Bangor because it can attract an 'A' act. Business move because they can make a profit, yes, quality of life is important but do not kid yourself that life in Bangor is better than life in Seattle, or Colorado Springs or any other city with high Tech growth. Bangor needs a politcial leadership that is willing to develop a comprehensive plan that draws business that are the companies of the future....an arena is the result of development, it is and will not be the cause of it. Let's say you build a 10,000 seat arena....tell me what CEO sitting in Boston is going to say. Whow, look at that. Bangor spent 73 millions dollars and increase their prdoperty taxes; I want to expand there...I will be able to see a big acts that don't come to the Fleet Center.

Yes there are differences between Allen and Bangor...however...the general idea of what Allen did is the point. I grew up in Downeast Maine. There is NOTHING in many areas of Maine. Everytime we needed to go shopping for anything other than groceries we would drive over 2 hours to Bangor. The college students that live in dorms are not counted into the population, either. We have A LOT more people in this area than statistics indicate. Why on earth this fact has been so callously ignored is beyond me. While the Allen facility is much more elaborate than what kind of facility would best serve Bangor, it had the right idea in being future sighted and maximizing every bit of potential that was there. The population almost doubled in Allen over a period of 7 years. The project itself provided many, many jobs and upon completion it provided a lot of jobs. This town NEEDS jobs. It needs something significant to attract businesses. It needs to provide a thriving COMMUNITY that appeals to people and attracts them to this area. Bangor has incredible potential but it's never going to be adequately tapped into unless those in charge of decisions like this stop being so short sighted. You CANNOT be innovative and future minded when you are only thinking about immediate impact on the short term. Whatever is built in Bangor is what we are going to be stuck with for many decades. It is wasteful to do this half-arsed. Either do it right so the facility is TRULY comparable or better than everything else in Maine or don't do it at all. To do what they are pushing for is wasteful. To do it RIGHT would be an investment in the future of Bangor. I don't believe in being wasteful, but I do believe in a wise and future friendly investment.

For all of you population statisical folks out there I would argue that while Bangor is indeed a small city, it is in a unique position geogrphically and demographically. As the only "city" in central and northern Maine, a region with a population of over 350k I would contend that Bangor has a considerably larger draw than other cities of its size for this very reason. I believe people from all over the region WOULD support a new arena. While statistics (from the recent study) that measured ticket sales by zip code analysis didn't exactly back up this point, I would also argue that the study is flawed since there really have been no events in the past 20 or 25 years that have been a premium draw. Most people I know won't go to the existing BA anyway due to the venue itself. I am not sure how, or even if the study was able to factor that in. The larger point being the people from Bangor itself won't fill the new arena so the population of the city itself is largely irrelevant. It's the draw from the city that will fill the new building.

Gorilla,

I agree that the new arena itself is not an end all solution to the economic woes of the city. In my post that i think you were responding to I mentioned other issues that need to be addressed. I simply feel that the new arena is a POSITIVE step in the right direction for the city. As I said before to do nothing at all is a receipe for the same old, same old that will certainly do nothing to help economic conditions in that area.

Steve...I don't believe they factored in the college students, either. UMO has more students than any other college in the entire state. There are over 12,000 students at UMO. There are over 2000 more at Husson. Most of those students are NOT legal residents of Bangor. Also, Bangor retail, infrastructure and facilities serve a little over 144,000 people. Because of the fact that Bangor is the closest city to such a large portion of the state it serves far more than just Bangor and the surrounding towns. A city that's services are utilized by almost 150k people needs more seats than this plan calls for, period.

Centaurmyst,

I agree entirely! I really don't understand why the people that want the small arena are SO against adding 2k more seats. It CAN'T be the cost, it's only 7 to 10% more costly. Maybe it's that they want the city to remain the same. I view all opinions. I can understand someone's right to feel that way. But I find that many of us posters here including you and I want Bangor to grow and prosper. Adding $4M to a $55M project shouldn't deter the city from building a larger arena IMO. Taking on a project of this monetary size should leave you with the best and biggest arena in Maine period! To do anythig less would be a mistake.

Well Steve, I'll tell you why I think they are lowering the seating and not putting in ice...all they really care about is a better convention center and that stupid foot bridge to Hollywood Slots. Why is that all they care about? Because they think if they have a better convention space they will attract people from away with money who will see that cool heated foot bridge leading to Hollywood Slots where they hope those visitors will go and throw away a lot of money so they can get a bigger piece of the gambling/addiction/destroyed lives pie. It's greed and not giving a flying fart about whether or not this pricey project offers anything to the people who actually live here or not. I get the impression that the only thing this "panel" and "council" is interested in is gaining some coin at the expense of people who are prone to gambling addiction and addiction in general. It's rather sick, in my opinion.

Lumber Capital of the World ------------------------------------> Health Care Center of Penobscot County

I love the way that the naysayers keep talking like only residents of Bangor will be attending events at this new arena........gimme a freakin break!

Bangor's primary "market" extends from Augusta in the South to the Northern tip of Maine and Downeast to the border........it's "secondary" market reaches even further South to Brunswick/Lewiston/Auburn and into the Canadian Maritimes. I base these "markets" on people willing to travel to Bangor for shopping, dining, and entertainment (including gambling). So what is the population of Bangor's "primary" market??? And what is it if you add in its "secondary" market?

It is HILARIOUS that some of these people on here are fighting tooth and nail about adding a few thousand plastic seats.........but not a peep out of them about spending $73 MILLION on this project that is DOOMED TO FAIL before they even dig theri first shovel of dirt!.....LOL.

If this project goes through.......it will become the biggest financial/development scandal in the history of Bangor a will relegate Hollywood Slots to chump status with most residents of the city.

As far as conventions go..........Hollywood slots should by the Fireside Inn and develop that piece of land into a convention center and put the sky bridge over the side street into their casino/hotel.

ryanrobbins- you must have never been to the AFF. Trust me, they photo count from the sky using heat imagery and it is usually 50,000 to 70,000 people a day. I think attendance at 2008 AFF was 160,000. No 160,000 people were not there you are right. But there was over 50,000 people a day if you do your math. Did you even know that every year Bangor becomes Maine's largest city when we hold the AFF? Why do you think that is? Thousands of people are coming to Bangor... With a daily population of over 100,000, people are coming to Bangor. You are very wrong sir. Sorry. And you need to think of the whole Bass Park 2011 complex compared to Cumberland County Crap Center. We will offer so much more if you would give the plan a chance to bloom. We may never be bigger than Portland, but we will always be BETTER.

Centaurmyst,

I am not so much against the "skybridge" idea as long as it would be in addition to 7500 to 8500 FIXED seats. Without Slots we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. So if some of this proposal is in their greater interest I can live with that. I'm not one to think that every person that drops a few bucks at Slots is a degenerate gambler, myself included. I am glad Slots is in Bangor and actually think it should be expanded to include gaming tables. Keep in mind that $6M toward this project has already been raised by revenue from Slots. The more revenue that is generated there, the more that will be generated to the city and state. A pretty good arrangement if you ask me.

So lets build an arena with the extra two thousand seats and the ice that will be used two or three times per year...I'm all for it.

To pay for the wasted seats, we will charge all non-Bangor residents $7 for parking (we will prohibit street parking within one mile of the arena) and a $2 surcharge on all event tickets. At the end of the first year, we will compute the operating losses and deduct the $300,000 normal operating loss. The balance will be charged off as ticket surcharges. Since we will be adding 30% more seats we should see a ticket surcharge after the first year of $3 to $5 extra.

This will satisfy all - extra seats that will sell 10% (if we are lucky) of the time, ice we will use (and have to maintain) two or three times per year, and most important, no tax increases on the residents of Bangor.

After ten years of attempted debt service, Basketball tournament tickets will run about $23 per day, concert tickets will average around $55 and the University will be playing hockey in the new arena that the alumni built because it was too expensive to use the new Legacy Center in Bangor.

The "Build-it-and-they-will-come" pundits here seem to have a crystal ball that has declared the end of poverty, unemployment and a bad economy.

PJ $7 bucks for parking? A BARGAIN!!! What do you think it costs at other venues? 2 or 3 buck surcharge on tickets- so be it. Doesn't sound so terrible to me. If that is what it takes I'd gladly pay it.

Keep it simple people, Bangor is no different than any other city in the nation. If you think the grass is greener on the other side, think again. Bangor does have a population growth during the day of over 100,000. Yes we can fill a 6,600 seat arena if we had too, but don't think Portland sells out every show. The difference between cities in Maine is that Bangor is the one place always trying to evolve. Don't listen to people who say we can't draw or we won't. If we can hold a concert and have the seating of 7000+ that is as simple as it gets. How many tickets can you sell at the maximum seating capacity? Well, I guess we could sell 7400 tickets huh? Fixed seats? Are those the paying seats?Whatever. If there are 5400 fixed seats than that is 5400 tickets only? I'm confused. Portland has 6600 fixed seats. Yippee, that extra 1200 seats makes Portland the only stop? he he. And who the hell thinks that one building in Augusta is better than the Bass Park Complex? That's idiotic. People must just be jealous of us or something...

pjramsay wrote:

BernieMad - it is possible that these management firms would assist ( pro bono) during the design phase. This was discussed at last nights meeting (recommendation number 6). These management companies believe that their assistance could garner them favor in regards to a management contract.

Free is good - right Bernie??? <----- it wont end up free any one can pro-/bono/hard on it they wouldn't be able to book nothing until it is open and where your pro-bonner now

management contract.<------they are not going to pro bono this :)

Gorilla, attracting business in any city is hard unless you are on the scale of big cities. That's not a Bangor thing. Fact is, Bangor is not the problem. Big jobs only come when the nation's economy is good, but it is not anywhere. The big paying jobs are not going to ever survive anywhere in the nation. Companies that pay big money are always trying to find a way to pay less to employees because that is their profit too. They move out of the country where people can't afford sh#$, and as long as they have people working for peanuts they make more money. The only place where jobs move is out of the country where the rights are less and the people accept peanuts. That has nothing to do with Bangor, Maine.

Centaurmyst, college students on campus ARE counted in a city's population. That's why Orono has almost 10,000 residents but is fielding Class C teams in high school sports.

Terence wrote: Relax people. <--- question for you terence are yu willing to put the money up that it takes to produced concerts these days. I am willing to bet NOT....neither will any other promoter in the right or left mind will either NO BRAINER LOSER

GOOD Luck

Centaurmyst- I agree with you, and you have to get bigger than your rivals to compete in this market, but Bangor will have a complex much more appealing to various people than one type. And yes the population of Greater Bangor is a lot larger than most people want to believe. I don't understand, but theses people must just be inside all the time and don't get out much.

Terence wrote:<<<< where is your proof of attendance parking in the whole of Bangor couldn't sustain those numbers I believe your numbers are a bit off

160,000= more like 30,000 all week end my numbers are back by actuall money made by average vendors take in tell the real numbers on average

Terence wrote' 70,000+ people ...where do you get those numbers :) from your boss MCCarthy :) to Bangor to hear mid-level acts. <---overstatement on attendence draw bottom level

Terence, I have been to the Folk Festival every year except this year. And I have scene the aerial photos. There is no way that many people have ever attended the festival. The festival organizers inflate the estimates because they want people to think the event is more successful than it is, and because they want potential sponsors to buy into the hype. To buy these crazy attendance estimates is to believe that every single available parking space in almost all of Bangor is occupied by a festival patron. Fat chance. If I remember correctly, Bass Park has about 3,000 parking spaces and downtown Bangor has about 3,000 spaces. Even if you say three people came in each vehicle, that would still be only 18,000. But the fact is, there are plenty of empty parking spaces downtown during the event and traffic is not that heavy.

If you want to see 60,000 people in one place in Maine, go to an air show (although Brunswick no longer will have such shows without a sponsor).

As for Bass Park vs. the Cumberland County Civic Center, you can't make that comparison. You have to compare arena to arena. Nothing other than harness racing will happen at the racetrack.

Terence, the Augusta Civic Center blows the Bangor Auditorium out of the water. It's larger and far more comfortable. Its shortcoming is lack of ice. A modern arena with more seating and ice in Bangor would make Bangor more attractive than Augusta. Pearl Jam has played in Augusta. And I'm willing to bet the venue had everything to do with why the band ignored Bangor.

We have been debating this for a decade. Relax, this is a good plan. Give kudos to Bangor Arena committee, they are getting this done. (clap, clap, clap, clap) Now hopefully the council accepts it and breaks ground already.

I personally think BOTH places stink!

David889327 wrote: Lumber Capital of the World ------------------------------------> Health Care Center of Penobscot County

Population growth of Penobscot County....-1.5 %; population growth of +60 population: +25.8%

ryanrobbins, A modern arena with ice and a larger capicty ie.7500 FIXED seats in Bangor would not only blow the Augusta CC away, but also the CCCC as well. Belive me, that place is a little long-in-the-tooth itself....

i been to AFF every year, trust me the numbers are high! Augusta Civic center is in a town of no amenties. Bass park 2011 will make Augusta lovers look silly. I've been to Augusta Civic center too many times to think Bass Park 2011 won't make Augusta a side show. We have so friggin much more than Augusta. Why would they get picked over us.

I have a lot of friends in Portland and I have attended many events at the CCCC....it is old and not very nice accept for basketball and Hockey; and do you know what,,,,,everyone knows it, As was written earlier on this page, Portland was offered the opportunity to get millions for a new arena and said no. Why do you think they did that? The hub of Maine's economic engine says no. They did because it did not make sense to spends millions of dollars of the TAXPAYERS MONEY! This is about the TAXPAYERS MONEY....and I am not willing to contribute. Show me economic development to support this white elephant.

ryan- you forgot to add in the sold out hotel parking lots all over greater bangor. you made a big oopsie. At least 50,000 attend a day. Oh yeah, some people walk or bus. Oh yeah, been to the brunswick show, that's about right.

Terence, what are these "sold out hotel parking lots" of which you speak? I wasn't aware any hotels were selling parking spaces...

Sorry, but you still have to get from the hotel to the waterfront. Nowhere have I seen any mention of an increase in city bus passengers for the the buses that go near the hotels out by the Bangor Mall. And you're fooling yourself if you think people are walking from the hotels on Odlin Road to the waterfront or to catch the shuttles at Bass Park.

On 12/5/09 at 4:03 PM, pjramsay wrote:

The "Build-it-and-they-will-come" pundits here seem to have a crystal ball that has declared the end of poverty, unemployment and a bad economy.

--------------------------------+

So why do you SUPPORT this $73 MILLION 5,400 seat facility????????????????????

On 12/5/09 at 6:30 PM, Gorilla wrote:

I have a lot of friends in Portland and I have attended many events at the CCCC....it is old and not very nice accept for basketball and Hockey; and do you know what,,,,,everyone knows it, As was written earlier on this page, Portland was offered the opportunity to get millions for a new arena and said no. Why do you think they did that? The hub of Maine's economic engine says no. They did because it did not make sense to spends millions of dollars of the TAXPAYERS MONEY! This is about the TAXPAYERS MONEY....and I am not willing to contribute. Show me economic development to support this white elephant.

----------------------------------

Portland hasn't been able to build anything because the town is filled with hippies, upper crust, out-of-staters, artsy-fartsy types that are more concerned with the color of the bricks in the Old Port than actually building ANYTHING that would economically benefit the city. They couldn't even get the Maine State Pier done........it's just sitting there!

"By the way -- a sky-bridge??? Come on people, crossing Main Street isn't really all that big of a deal is it?? and Dutton?? Even in the largest of cities there are no skybridges from their stadiums and arenas - unless they're crossing the interstate"......hey Williamson, take a drive up to Saint John, New Brunswick....they have an enclosed pedway system that connects Market Square, the Aquatic Centic, Harbor Station hockey complex, old city market and many parking garages...the City of Saint John is about 130,000 pop(a guess).

mainejeff - I do not support a $73-million, 5,400 seat arena. I do support a $52-million, 5,400 seat fixed, 7,000 seat concert or 7,400 seat small stage venue. The $73-million price tag is for Phase One (arena) and Phase Two (convention center). I support the ice infrastructure ($1.1-million) but not the ice floor and equipment ($1.5-million) - until we have someone that wants to use it.

Phase Two will help finance the losses on Phase One. Unfortunately, you have to complete Phase One first. The arena will never pay for itself, period. This is a situation where planning for a new arena has to be based on hard analysis and not wishful thinking.

Steve...I also wouldn't complain about the foot bridge IF there were AT LEAST 10,000 PERMANENT seats and ice. The reason I am irritated is because the whole project is geared entirely to benefit Hollywood Slots without ANY consideration to what the people who live here want. They should have provided two or three options and let people vote on which one they want. I never referred to people who go to Hollywood Slots as "degenerate gamblers". Addiction is addiction and it's an illness. I don't think Hollywood Slots is good for Bangor at all. I friend of mine told me a story about a grandmother who sold her home and blew all that money at Hollywood Slots. When that was gone she took out a substantial loan. What is that elderly woman going to do to take care of herself? Situations like that are tragic and it happens far too often. The proposal was quite obviously made to benefit Hollywood Slots. That is why the only space upgrade goes to convention space and making it easier to enter Hollywood Slots.

If the Santa Anna Star Center in Rio Rancho, NM is the model for the new arena in Bangor, IT WILL BE VERY NICE!!!!!

I just think this is a great venture. If there is anything that needs to be improved on, it would be the seating capacity. We need more capacity to maximize revenue; not just for now, but two to three decades fro now.

pjramsay...ice would be used more than two or three times a year IF Bangor has the biggest and newest arena in the state. IF Bangor has the biggest and newest arena in the state it is Bangor the major acts will come to. When major acts come to ANY arena it fills up. History has shown this. Larger stadiums can charge LESS than smaller stadiums. How quickly you are forgetting about the Bangor Fair over the summer. Almost 70,000 people paid $10 to go to the fair.

With 10k seats you charge $25 for a decent concert. That's $250,000 for one show. With 5400 seats you would have to charge over $46 to generate the same dollar figure in sales. Claiming tickets would cost more is nonsense. A lot of people will pay and can afford $25 to see a good concert but a lot less would be willing or able to pay $46. The bigger stadium will fill up WAY quicker because they can make the same revenue by charging substantially less for tickets. Add to that fact that no act worth paying even $20 to see will come to such a tiny stadium. The current arena doesn't fill up because the only things that come there that anyone cares about seeing is the circus and high school basketball tournaments. With the current plan not a darn thing about the quality of entertainment offered in Bangor will change and it will NOT cause any kind of economic gains. It will only be a waste of all that money.

$25 for a decent show? WOW! It has been a while since anybody good came to Bangor! I don't think I've paid less than $75 in years. Usually MUCH more in fact....

Steve63.....please, please, please, please find a city that matches the population of Bangor (31,473) and the Bangor Metro (148,000) when comparing arena's.

The population of Rio Rancho, NM is 75,978 and the Rio Rancho Metro is 835,120. The population of the State of Maine is 1,315,069!

Bangor is not Spokane, Washington.

Bangor is not Rio Rancho, New Mexico.

Bangor is the hub for Northern Maine. This is not Field of Dreams where you "build it and they will come". The City of Bangor will not be getting any help from the State of Maine, Penobscot County or the surrounding cities and towns with construction costs. They have to "go it alone".

Find a management group that will assist with construction and the promotion of events. Find a company or individual that is willing to pay for naming rights. Be creative and maybe this will succeed.

On 12/5/09 at 9:36 PM, pjramsay wrote:

mainejeff - I do not support a $73-million, 5,400 seat arena. I do support a $52-million, 5,400 seat fixed, 7,000 seat concert or 7,400 seat small stage venue. The $73-million price tag is for Phase One (arena) and Phase Two (convention center). I support the ice infrastructure ($1.1-million) but not the ice floor and equipment ($1.5-million) - until we have someone that wants to use it.

Phase Two will help finance the losses on Phase One. Unfortunately, you have to complete Phase One first. The arena will never pay for itself, period. This is a situation where planning for a new arena has to be based on hard analysis and not wishful thinking.

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Talk about wishful thinking!.....LOL. You support building a 5,400 seat facility with 2,000 folding chairs to be funded by a $21 million Phase 2 convention facility?!?! What conventions will Bangor attract to pay for this $73 MILLION MESS??? Who is wishfully thinking?

And regarding ice........so when the Ice Capades, U.S. Figure Skating Association, Boston Bruins, Portland Pirates, Uiversity of Maine Black Bears want to have an event at the new arena.......will Bangor pony up the money, buy the ice making equipment, boards, etc, and set it up?........or are you going to sacrifice all of those possible events with your short-sighted tunnel vision?

JD, The Santa Ana Star Center was designed by the firm that did the recent study. I checked their website and this arena is almost exactly as their propsal is for Bangor (as far as size and of the actual seating capacity). I'm just saying it's a VERY NICE SMALL arena from the same people that have been pitching it to the Bangor Arena Committee. Check it out it's NICE! BTW, Rio Rancho is part of Alburqurque's MSA.

Centaurmyst....so now A Class talent will come to Bangor for 25.00/ticket???? Bon Jovi in Foxboro is 127.00/ticket for lower level seating!

Steve63...you are correct it is nice and sits on a piece of 160 acres of redeveloped downtown area including a casino.

mainejeff....when was the last time the Boston Bruins played anywhere but the TD Garden? Has the U.S.F.S.A. ever come to Portland? UMaine has stated time and again, over and over that they will NOT play in Bangor. They play one game a year in Portland and all other games in Orono.

On 12/5/09 at 10:30 PM, JD2008 wrote:

Steve63.....please, please, please, please find a city that matches the population of Bangor (31,473) and the Bangor Metro (148,000) when comparing arena's.

The population of Rio Rancho, NM is 75,978 and the Rio Rancho Metro is 835,120. The population of the State of Maine is 1,315,069!

Bangor is not Rio Rancho, New Mexico.

Bangor is the hub for Northern Maine. This is not Field of Dreams where you "build it and they will come". The City of Bangor will not be getting any help from the State of Maine, Penobscot County or the surrounding cities and towns with construction costs. They have to "go it alone".

Find a management group that will assist with construction and the promotion of events. Find a company or individual that is willing to pay for naming rights. Be creative and maybe this will succeed.

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JD......What is wrong with an 8,000 seat arena that was built at a cost of $47 MILLION (completed in 2006)???? The arena's main tenant is the New Mexico Scorpions (minor league hockey) and an arena football team. Minor league hockey in New Mexico, but not Bangor, Maine????

Also, the naming rights to the arena were sold to a CASINIO for $2.5 million over a 5 year period for the Santa Ana Star Center.........hmmmmmm.

Here's a pic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Santa_Ana_Star_Center.jpg

Bruins play in both Portland and Manchvegas every pre-season if I'm not mistaken.

On 12/5/09 at 10:49 PM, JD2008 wrote:

mainejeff....when was the last time the Boston Bruins played anywhere but the TD Garden? Has the U.S.F.S.A. ever come to Portland? UMaine has stated time and again, over and over that they will NOT play in Bangor. They play one game a year in Portland and all other games in Orono.

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Anmd Blake James will be the AD forever...........wash, rinse, repeat.......*yawn*.

No matter how much you try and convince yourself that UMaine will *NEVER* play a hockey game in a new Bangor arena.......the fact remains that it would always be "in play" if there was enough seating and ice.........with 5,400 seats (the size of Alfond Arena) and no ice, I totally agree with you........they would NEVER play in the proposed facility!

If you look at the capacities of the Star Center on Wiki (the right hand column) it says 6K hockey and 7500 for concerts. I know the first paragragh says 8k. Maybe they increased the capacity before construction. I''m still with the 7500 to 9000 FIXED seat crowd because the savings are too insignificant NOT to do it that way. All I'm saying is that it IS a very nice arena if that is what they are pitching for Bangor.

mainejeff- it is lol funny how a small city in NM can have minor league hockey, but not in Bangor, ME! I go semi regularly to Portland Pirates and Manchester Monarch games and the games are always well attended and the level of hockey is GREAT. I know, I know the population stats people will say that Manch and Portland are larger towns. I think it's crap. $15 bucks to see great hockey is a VERY entertaining and CHEAP night out. There are hopefully enough people in greater Bangor who would agree. I think there are! If not, there's not much hope for the peeps of Bangor....

Steve63 wrote it is lol funny how a small city in NM can have minor league hockey, but not in Bangor, ME!

Steve...that small city has twice as many peoples as Bangor and 8 times the metro area..........you guys do not get it. BANGOR IS TOO SMALL. Bangor is a little city in a little state! PATHETIC!

So Gorilla, When UMO has a good hockey program, how in the world do they sellout the 5k seats at Alfond??? Bangor's population is 3xs Orono's

Steve63 wrote: how in the world do they sellout the 5k seats at Alfond???

Steve, that is for less than 20 games a year on campus where the student's pay 8 to 10 dollars and as yoy say 'when they are winning'. To have a permanent tenent at the Bangor arena you are going to have to bring in 5000 to 6000 fans 40 times a year at 15 to 40 dollars a ticket, wiin or lose....just to break even. Maybe the Pirates will leave Portland for Bangor but they will not unless we can guraneeteed that number....and also give them the concessions. That is one of the issues they keep having with the CCCC. Without a tenent like the Pirates, a metro area of 100,000 can not afford a 7000 seat stadium. The only reason the CCCC survives is it is sitting on debt charges 30 years old. They basically just need to cover operating expenses. Again, check the internet......arena's are not making money and they are not being built in little cities in little states. Stop trying to compare Bangor to cities you missatkenly believe are akin to Bangor.......no one has yet shown us a city of 30,000 to 40,000 people with a metro area of 100,000 that has built a 7,000 seat arena with ice. It can not be done without massive tax increases and if it done in Bangor we are in for a lot of trouble.

Gorilla, So DO NOTHING then. That will make Bangor a much more attractive area! As I have said countless times on this post, the arena will bring in revenue to the city indirectly if not on it's own balance sheet. Again the larger point is a quality of life issue. Would people in that area like to do anything to get out of the house? If so, minor league hockey is a great CHEAP ( $ 15 not $40 )way to do so. If it draws reasonably well the surrounding restaurants, bars and other retail should do well. Maybe people in Bangor don't want it. A lot of the people there may not want to put their joints and !/2 Gallons of Allen's coffee brandy down long enough to do anything reasonably worthwhile. In a nutshell, that's why I left 25 years ago and am glad I did! The next time a great show comes to the verizion wireless in Manch I'll be thinin' of ya'll..... The city's new "vision" statement should read as follows: Bangor: To Small to DO ANYTHING that might make us Bigger! Puny attitudes make a puny city! There I am done! I have HAD IT with all the negative DO NOTHINGS!

ryanrobbin- i know what im talking about. Bass Park is full, the racetrack is full, the hollywood slots parking garage is full (1500 spaces a lot of people also visit the casino from aff and you can leave your car there the buses shuttle all weekend. when we were there this year all slots were full 1500 and the gaming had another 500 people waiting for the car giveaway, saturday it rain so attendance was down), pickering square parking garage was full, all downtown parking lots were full because busineess sell their spaces, the news sells their parking lot, the casino overflow parking is full, the hotel on main st is full, charles inn is full, all area hotels are full (like 20), all buses are running, taxi cabs are full, brewer is full, and the photos they use to tally are pretty acurate is you understand heat imagery (it was used at the Phish concert in limestone to determine 150,000 people showed up there). Each person has an indentity fingerprint when using heat imagery so it is a more accurate way to take in attendance counts frm the sky. Each year, the daily attendance at AFF has increased 36,000/41,000/46,000/52,000/66,000 etc. Believe it. So if you want me to believe Bangor can't handle crowds you will have to erase my memory. Trust me, with 3-4 a car which is what it was and all the people walking from brewer and buses,cabs, even boats it is not a joke. So yes, Bangor can handle a crowd. Be proud. Also, the night club scene is growing fast and with the most college students around and the fact that 6.,000 people alone can walk to the waterfront if they want to as far as hammond st. This is huge and true. Next year, watch out. So please give us some credit over Portland. This is silly.

Another good set up here is that the grandstand can hold 1500 people for a stage act as well as 7400 seats for a stage act in the new arena for when it rains at the AFF. its a perfect set up.

So Gorilla...........What makes you think that a $73 MILLION, 5,400 seat complex is going to attract enough events and make enough money so that Bangor taxpayers don't have to support it?????

Seriously.........5,400 seats will get you NOTHING and you will still have a brand new arena to maintain. People like you just don't get it.

JD...I used that amount ONLY to illustrate why tickets from larger arenas actually cost LESS than tickets at smaller arenas. I also haven't been to a concert in a long time since the Bangor auditorium is TOO SMALL to attract any concerts I would even pay $5 to see. They all go to Portland if they come to Maine at all because that is the biggest venue now. The point is STILL the same...less seats than the current auditorium has means that there will be NO CHANGE in the current complete and total lack of anything worth seeing aside from the circus and the tournaments for people who are interested in high school basketball. If a new auditorium isn't going to bring any new entertainment then kindly tell me what is the point in wasting all that money at all? There is none. Either make the auditorium bigger or don't even bother and just fix up the one we have, put on a new roof and call it a day. New convention space is NOT going to generate substantial money.

People who are blind to just how many people Bangor serves need a bit of a wake up call. With the only concert venue in Maine being in Portland, let's take a more accurate look at how Bangor would stack up against Portland as a concert venue. You also cannot compare Maine to other states because most states actually have more cities and even rural people in other states don't have to drive as far to access shopping and entertainment as people in Maine do. These numbers are a far more accurate picture of how many people come to Bangor somewhat regularly.

Counties in Maine closer to Bangor than Portland and county population as of 2006:

Penobscot County: 147,180

Hancock County: 53,797

Washington County: 33,288

Aroostook County: 73,008

Piscataquis County: 17,585

Waldo County: 38,715

Total: 363,573

Counties about same distance from both Portland and Bangor:

Knox County: 41,096

Somerset County: 52,249

Total: 93,345

Jeff...you are correct...I can not see how we can afford 73 milllion and let us be candid here....we are not talking 73 miilion; the actual cost with interest over 20 years will be at leat 100 million. That means 5 milliuon a year for the city. At best the slots will give us 1 to 2 million with 3 to 4 million needing to come from the arena...just for debt service. Expenses.... at least 800,000......Taxpayers, hold onto your wallets.

Good stuff Centaur. Bangor carries the weight of most of the state even though southern maine is more populated.

Having less seats than the current arena is a 100% guarantee that the arena will NOT be profitable and will be a complete and utter waste of money. If more seats are added to make it the largest and newest venue in the state then it is HIGHLY likely that it WILL be profitable. There most certainly IS enough people in northern, eastern and central Maine who already come to Bangor who WOULD come to concerts by performers they have actually heard of. As I pointed out...over 350,000 people in this state live closer to Bangor than Portland and another almost 100k people are about halfway between both. We all know American Idols Live tickets sell out fast. With 10k fixed seats and the $40 ticket price I saw listed online and the extra seats on the floor that would be half a million dollars in ticket sales for one show. With only a little over half that in fixed seats they wouldn't even consider coming to Bangor in the first place and neither would any other popular performers. At least the infrastructure for ice is important and that could be added at a later date if need be, but there MUST be more seating or else the whole thing is pointless and a complete waste of money because a smaller arena does NOTHING to bring any kind of economic gains or enhancement to Bangor.

Centaurmyst, the arena will need to make a profit of $5,000,000 a year to pay debt service with 6000 seats. Add another 2 million for 10,000 seats. A concert at $40.00 a seat brings gross of $400,000. 80% goes to the artist and promoter, expenses $5,000....that leaves about $50,000 for the arena. If they sell out. Arenas do not breal even from 10 to 15 concerts a year (that is a stretch). They need a tenant and don't beleive UMO will ever be OUR tenant....they wan't pay rent when they do not have to and they will not give up concessions; we necssesary the alumni will pay for a refurbisehd Alfond where UMO GETS ALL THE MONEY. They are not going to give up the MONEY...they do not need or care about Bangor.

Bangor citizens, this is the great income you can get from the many events that might come 'if we build it':

"In most places, these financial arrangements are invisible to the public, because most venues are privately owned or managed. That's not the case in Orlando — home to one of the few publicly owned and managed National Basketball Association arenas — where finances are subject to Florida's open-records laws.

Here's how a standard deal works: A promoter pays the artist and covers expenses such as advertising and insurance. In exchange for rent that ranges from $27,000 to $55,000, the city provides a venue; police and fire protection; private security; ushers and ticket-takers; traffic control; cleanup; and miscellaneous other services."

Fellow citizens, do you think 27,000 - 50,000 plus concessions will cover our debt service on a 7,000 seat 73 million dollar arena at 3-4% interest for 20 years? What about 10,000 seats at 90 million at at 3-4% interest for 20 years? Why not, lets go for it, what is tax money for but to spend!

You are right Gorilla, You should spend all of your tax $ on the numerous methadone clinics that have risen up in the last few years in the greater BGR area. No doubt the result of people being doped up out of sheer BOREDOM!!! BTW, I miss you on my local WWE events. Where u been man?

Terence, you do not know what you're talking about regarding the Folk Festival. What downtown businesses sell their parking spaces? No city buses are running regular routes during the Friday performances, and there is no bus service in the city for Sunday. And claiming that parking lots in Brewer are full is just a vain attempt to support your ridiculous attendance claim. "Heat imagery" is not used to estimate crowd sizes. Whoever is doing the counting simply guesses after looking at aerial photos.

ryanrrobbins the parking lots on South Main Street in Brewer are full during the folk festival.

It is incorrect to assume that people from this area will pay being to money to go to second rate acts (which is all a new auditorium would draw). Keep in mind that these are the same people who dont' bother to contribute enough money to keep the Folk Fesitval viable.

ryanrobbins...my kids and I go to the Folk Festival and we usually park at the auditorium and take the free Bat Bus Shuttle to the different areas of the Folk Festival. The bus shuttle most certainly IS running on Sunday...but it ONLY serves the folk festival to bus people from the parking areas. Everytime we go the Folk Festival is PACKED.

On 12/6/09 at 6:59 PM, Gorilla wrote:

Jeff...you are correct...I can not see how we can afford 73 milllion and let us be candid here....we are not talking 73 miilion; the actual cost with interest over 20 years will be at leat 100 million. That means 5 milliuon a year for the city. At best the slots will give us 1 to 2 million with 3 to 4 million needing to come from the arena...just for debt service. Expenses.... at least 800,000......Taxpayers, hold onto your wallets.

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Then fight this project, Gorilla! Don't let the city council make a HUGE mistake just so they can get their names on some plaque!

And regarding counties, Centaurmyst........what about Kennebec???? Waterville is 1 hour from Bangor and 1.5 hours from Portland.

Bangorian...all the currently planned auditorium will ever attract is the same tired old crap the current one attracts. Why? Because despite being "new" there will be LESS seats than the current site has. If they put in seating for 10,000 a new auditorium WILL once again bring GREAT acts that people are actually willing to pay to see to Bangor. When a band or artist goes on tour they usually make a couple of stops in a state but not Maine because the only venue big enough is Portland. Portland doesn't even get many great acts either because it's not too far from Manchester. Bangor would open up concert options for thousands of people who currently don't have ANY concert options due to not being able to travel all the way to Portland or Manchester. Back when I was a kid Bangor DID have a lot of concerts by the most popular musicians of the time. There were always events that filled up the arena. I grew up in Washington county...3 hours away from Bangor and our family used to come to Bangor all the time to go to events at the auditorium.

If they aren't going to have more seats than the current auditorium then they need to just fix up the current auditorium and NOT waste millions of dollars. There is NO point in having a new auditorium if it can't bring in NEW and BETTER performers and events. If it can't do that much then all it will be is a liability.

mainejeff...I thought I put Kennebec County in there too. Sorry if I overlooked it. Of course, those who claim Bangor doesn't need 10k seats will just ignore the numbers I posted anyway. All they care about is convention space and a foot bridge to Hollywood Slots. I'd almost guarantee those people are over 50 years old and have no interest in concerts so they foolishly assume that no one else would care, either. That is why the council needs younger blood. If their decisions are all geared toward the over 50 crowd then young people will continue to move away.

Centaurmyst, the shuttle service is not regular city bus service. A claim was made that people staying in hotels were taking public transportation to the festival parking lot at Bass Park (for some reason) or to the festival staging area.

I can assure you that none of the festivals has come close to the attendance the organizers claim. I have no stake in inflating or deflating the crowd estimates, but the organizers are desperate to overstate the event's success. I am involved in another major event in the city and I don't subscribe to the attendance figures claimed because they are woefully inflated, too, in addition to counting people multiple times during a single day and throughout the event's course.

some of you need to do your home work on concerts in the production of them, in the past no more that 4 a year and that a good year, that will not make bangor a profit, there will be no so called A list entertainers coming to bangor, give it up if the arena is built it will be financial burden on the city, the city just wants a new toy under the tree.

GIV IT UP IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN

I'd love to see it though

On 12/7/09 at 8:50 AM, BernieMad wrote:

some of you need to do your home work on concerts in the production of them, in the past no more that 4 a year and that a good year, that will not make bangor a profit, there will be no so called A list entertainers coming to bangor, give it up if the arena is built it will be financial burden on the city, the city just wants a new toy under the tree.

GIV IT UP IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN

I'd love to see it though

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So you go on a long rant on why the city shouldn't build an arena, yet you'd "love to see it".......???? OK............

Bernie...if Bangor has a bigger and newer venue than Portland there will be more and better shows in Bangor. Why? Because there won't be any other venues close enough to have to compete with like Portland competes with Manchester. The American Idols Live tour would come to Bangor every year and would sell out every year. When that happens other entertainers will see that they can do well here and they will consider coming to Bangor as well.

So is anyone organizing a petition drive to stop this waste of money???

Did any of you 'it will sell out' crowd read this fact from Gorilla:

"In most places, these financial arrangements are invisible to the public, because most venues are privately owned or managed. That's not the case in Orlando — home to one of the few publicly owned and managed National Basketball Association arenas — where finances are subject to Florida's open-records laws. Here's how a standard deal works: A promoter pays the artist and covers expenses such as advertising and insurance. In exchange for rent that ranges from $27,000 to $55,000, the city provides a venue; police and fire protection; private security; ushers and ticket-takers; traffic control; cleanup; and miscellaneous other services."

Areans make peanuts on a show...even if we sell out every concert it will not cover the cost. We will need a major tenant. And do not hope for UMO. They are not going to pay rent when they do not have to do so. We will need to sell 6000 tickets at least 40 to 50 times a year in addition to the handful of concerts we host to just cover the interest and priciple on a $73,000,000 project.

Aren't the Sacramento Monarchs WNBA team looking for a new home? While in most markets, a WNBA team struggles to bring in fans...this is an area where they could probably do quite well.

If you could get them that might take care of the tenent issue and make a 7,000 seat arena practical from a taxpayer standpoint. Go for it!

Tommie, there is no University of Maine at Orono (UMO). It's simply the University of Maine.

Renting the new arena in Bangor would be beneficial to the school because it would ease the burden of maintaining Alfond Arena. Alfond is outdated and cramped and in need of wholesale changes to the original seating bowl, not to mention the walkways and the awful balcony. Additionally, the school would save some money on having to provide police for inside the arena and outside the arena for traffic control. The biggest advantage for the school would be more seating at the new Bangor arena. More seating would mean higher attendance and more money.

The current setup at UMaine is terrible. Not only is the arena cramped, parking is the worst. UMaine hockey games are not very fan-friendly. And with Alfond getting older, Alfond is becoming unfriendly to players as well. I think one reason the men's hockey team is having trouble getting top recruits is Alfond's age. Fan fervor can only go so far.

The school has no money to build a new arena of its own and, as far as I can tell, no plans.

Centurmyst - It's wonderful that you used to travel from Washington County to Bangor to see shows, but that doesn't change anything. We could have ALL of Washington County come to Bangor to see a show and it still will not draw a big name act. It's just not going to happen. I can also assure you that nobody from Portland (where there is a population base) will ever drive North to see a show in Bangor. It sounds like you know a good deal about living in rural Maine. While I appreciate that, I must tell you that your experience living in Washinton County is unique to rural MaIne. It does not apply here.

On 12/7/09 at 4:51 PM, Bangorian wrote:

Centurmyst - It's wonderful that you used to travel from Washington County to Bangor to see shows, but that doesn't change anything. We could have ALL of Washington County come to Bangor to see a show and it still will not draw a big name act. It's just not going to happen. I can also assure you that nobody from Portland (where there is a population base) will ever drive North to see a show in Bangor. It sounds like you know a good deal about living in rural Maine. While I appreciate that, I must tell you that your experience living in Washinton County is unique to rural MaIne. It does not apply here.

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And the claims of you negative nellies are just as BASELESS as the people you are arguing against!

I disagree with you that people won't come to Bangor to see concerts, shows and athletic events. There is a HUGE college population from September through May between UMaine, Husson, Unity, and Colby as far as newer acts are concerned and then summer kicks in........and there is a HUGE base of country music fans across Central, Eastern, and Northern Maine. Also, the casino, mall, and even downtown Bangor and the waterfront make Bangor a regional destination. An 8,000 permanent seat arena with ice would be in the city's best interest to attract enough events (revenue) to help the facility break even and fulfill the needs of Bangor and the surrounding region for the next 5 or 6 DECADES.

I don't understand the claims that people in Portland wouldn't travel up here to see a show. People up here travel all the time to Portland to see shows. Is there some kind of disorder that would prevent the opposite from being true?

Bangorian, I live south of Portland and I can assure you that my friends and family WOULD go to concerts in Bangor! Again provided that they can draw someone I'm interested in seeing. I am not a big fan of the CCCC (except for hockey) and I wouldn't mind spending some time and $ in Bangor. How ironic it would be that 25 years ago we used to go to Portland in favor of Bangor. If Bangor builds a large, modern arena (similar to the Santa Ana Star Center), I think you'd be surprised at the crowds that would come. People here in So. Maine are not happy with the CCCC either and many acts have stopped coming there in favor of Manchester and outdoor ampitheaters (Meadowbrook and Tweeter). Hockey is still a good draw though. As I believe it would be in Bangor.

Bangorian...I'll take this opportunity to remind you how foolish it is to ever assume anything about another person. Yes, I did grow up in Washington County and I do now live in Bangor. However, I have also lived in VT, NH, PA, FL, GA and MS. While Vermont and New Hampshire were also fairly rural areas, I lived within 15 minutes of Jacksonville, FL, 15-20 minutes from Atlanta, GA and about 30-40 minutes from New Orleans, LA (along the border in MS on the Gulf Coast). It's complete and utter nonsense when you say that Bangor won't draw a big name act. It most certainly will and had no problem doing so in the past when Bangor's auditorium was the biggest and newest in the state. As far as population goes...the majority of Maine's population are either closer to Bangor or just as close to Bangor as they are to Portland. And yes, people in Portland most certainly WILL travel to Bangor to see a show IF it's a show worth seeing. People there go to Boston all the time to see concerts. Bangor is a quicker trip and easier drive than Boston because there isn't as much traffic to contend with and rooms are cheaper.

So yes, I know about rural Maine...but I also know just as much about heavily populated cities...and trust me...Portland is actually kinda small. It's more of a town, actually...as is Bangor.

Something that would absolutely be a HUGE hit in Bangor would be an arena football team. I don't believe Portland has one of those.

Sorry, but neither minor league hockey or arena football would be likely to succeed up here. UMaine hockey is king up here. Not even a pro team would be able to share the spotlight. Arena football would fare worse than the Blue Ox and Lumberjacks did in baseball.

Hockey doesn't happen year round. Minor league hockey probably would struggle due to UMaine hockey, but basketball or football would do much better.

mainejeff wrote:So you go on a long rant on why the city shouldn't build an arena, yet you'd "love to see it".......???? OK............Yes so it would prove how stupid they are if the go ahead with it. For some reason Bangor thinks that Hollywood slots is going to be a cash cow to bangor when it is just around the corner their monopoly will be dissolve with competition soon and that cash flow soon will dwindle.

Centaurmyst wrote:Bernie...if Bangor has a bigger and newer venue than Portland there will be more and better shows in Bangor. Why? Because there won't be any other venues close enough to have to compete with like Portland competes with Manchester.

Who is going to produced those shows you: heres is a break down

A list $400,000 to produced

B list $ 200.000 to produced (including Idol)

The American Idols Live tour would come to Bangor every year and would sell out every year. You must be psychic unless you plan on risking $200,000

won't happen and you have no way of knowing that it would sell out

When that happens other entertainers will see that they can do well here and they will consider coming to Bangor as well. I guess you don't know how the concert business works it is not the entertainers that book them selfs it is promoters who bring acts to an area. So put your pipe dream in a pipe and smoke it :) no promoters have any desire to bring such costly acts to bangor

Most shows if ever perform in the bangor area was routed through and southern mainers would have access to better/closer arenas so everyone thoughts of people coming from the Portland area just not going to happen very small % not worth the money one has to spend on advertising

So Bangor build it and watch them not come :)

Good luck

Hey Bernie, why is it that in the 70's and early 80's A-list acts appeared at the BA reglularly? Why would they NOT appear there now if the venue was modern and large enough to draw them? I believe they would. I have listed all of the bands that I saw there when I was growing up and all of them were A or top B-list acts at the time and the place was always packed. The venue itself was very poor for concerts of that era due to the design of the building itself (made for b-ball and boxing) brutal accoustics and a lack of a/c and proper ventilation. Yet, people still packed the place! I don't really know what's changed since. The economy stunk then too. Remember the Carter years? Most of the anti-arena or anti- larger arena folks don't seem to want it IMO cuz they'ed probably never use it and don't want to pay a dime towards it being done. I honestly can understand that viewpoint. But in order to draw people TO the city this should be done and done right to benefit the entire city's economy.

I couldn't tell from your article whether the arena Bangor is building will be managed by Global Entertainment, which usually works with Sink Combs Dethlefs, but if that's the case - Bangor Beware.

Global has opened 10 arenas similar to the one being proposed in Bangor, but they are only operating three of them at the moment...one in Prescott Valley, AZ and the two they have most recently built. They've been kicked out of two arenas in 2008/09, one in Rio Rancho, NM and one in Wenatchee, WA for financial mismanagement - the arenas never made the money Global said they were going to. They are only operating in Independence, MO because the city made them put up $500,000 as collateral against Global operating in the red, as they have in EVERY OTHER COMMUNITY they've ever built in. Plus they are being sued by a major financial institution over their arena in Prescott Valley - the bondholder for the arena debt is suing for malfeasance, saying the revenue projections on the arena were grossly inflated. Go talk to the people in Yuma, AZ who dodged a bullet when they voted down a Global arena in 2008. Yuma residents dug up all the dirt on Global and put it out for everyone to see, and they told Global to take a hike. Bangor would be wise to do the same. You can find out any of this info for yourself by Googling "Global Entertainment" and the community name, by the way.