And still they make more than East Millinocket for the same work!! There's your proof that unlike you I do know my facts!!!

Your point is we have a stronger union? Give this issue a rest will you?

The vote is over.....I hope we don't end up with people whining on this comment page again....let us continue our lives.

In todays economy you have seen so many companies shutting down and moving theri company overseas to save on wages and overhead expensives. They are doing it all over...to save money on the backs of their employees...Fraser is getting like the NFL. They are evetually going to price themselves out of the market.. I have noticed that the mill employees have given alot to keep the mill up and running. I don't see where the USW Local 291, 365 and 1247 unions have offered to cut back on some of the union dues the members are paying to help offset the eventual 5.5 % less in workers earnings in for the next three year contract just voted on....

I worked for a company with a union and had 13 yrs on the job and the union kept raising the stakes to the company I worked for...than all of a sudden one day the company head office management out of Boston Mass, stepped in and closed six stores from one chain and another 6 from another in Aroostook county. That is 12 stores closing their doors in the county...Madawaska was one of them. Do you have any idea how many people lost their jobs and how many businesses lost revenue from not being able to sell wholesale to these companies...just ask Cy Bros Inc. Milken Thompson. Smith Foods Inc. Jimmy Frank Inc. Rice Company...Hanaford Bros. Inc. I thank the employees of Fraser for their courage in making a tough decision to stay with the company. It is not easy sitting down at the table with your bride and children and having to discuss where you are going to have to cut here and there in order to survive in todays economy. Thank you for your dedication to your family and to the town of Madawaska and its citizens that rely on you and your families for their lively hoods. I was fortunate to retire at the age of 48 back in 1992 seventeen years ago....I just happened to make some healthy investments after I lost my job, I started my own business and it grew leaps and bounds into six other states....I wish you all and your families the very best in your future endeavors.....I have a lot of wonderful friends and family living in Madawaska, Van Buren and Edmonton...God Bless!

Good to hear. If you actually think that you had a choice, you might want to sell your house. I've give Maine's paper industry 2 years at best.

An 8.5% pay cut? What great union representation! Keep paying your union dues my brothers and sisters.

To all you critics, union bashers, and southern Maine whiners this is corporate greed at its best. You don't hear about the CEOs taking a cut or returning their fat bonuses do you? All you hear is that management hasn't been givin a raise in a few years, however you do not hear about their bonus money either, why? Because they are crooks! It is much easier to rob the working man. Well this is our future here in America, the Corporates are so dam greedy that they will sell our jobs to overseas countries for larger profit. So all you union bashers, and critics the wages you enjoy today will also decrease cause if the unions make less money then they spend less money at your little cushy businesses and eventually you will have to close down, can you say trickle down economics. Only in America!!

Hey younger brother well said!!!!

I work in east millinocket and "anotherneighbor" is right madawaska employees do make more ................ because they have a strong union made up of people that WILL take a stand. Bill Peterson got 8 1/2% and may have done a lot of damage to the attitude of the employees. Union brothers at madawaska I wish we were as strong and hope you can give some pointer to us before contract time. Well done brothers and sisters.

Things will keep getting worse until we elect people who abolish free trade.

I'm sure this vote was tough on all the union members. So much rides on making the right choice . Good luck and God Bless.

frenchpilot007, where ya been? Most of our mills have already shut down, or downsized. Buck up.

--Southern Maine Whiner

Lets due the math, 100% minus 8.5%= 91.5% of nothing...............still looks like good times for the workers compared to unemployment and no new prospects in the area.

mcrafty; well said, most of those union brothers & sisters must have been able to do the math!

At least you still have jobs and earning more than minimum wage!

The Auto Industry unions could learn a thing or 2 from you all. My hat is off to you for taking pay cuts to survive. It is hard to find work in this part of the country and if we don't make tuff choices the good workers from the North will have to go to Millinocket and the whiners will lose their jobs. :)

Bravo

By Lugdon’s calculations it will cost the average millworker about $6,500 (8.5%) annually....

So according to Lugdon.....the average union worker makes $76,500 / year pre contract......$70,500 / year post contract (before overtime). That's still almost 2x the average FAMILY income in Maine.

When the company does well, the union EXPECTS to share in the riches. It's good to see that when the company is not doing well, they are sharing in the pain. While they may whine that management isn't sharing in the pain, the article mentions that mgmt has not had a raise in 3 years. What has the union raise been over the same period? My guess is it's about the same as the 8.5% cut they are taking now, making mgmt's "pain" more than the unions since the union members at least got the raise money the last 3 years and mgmt did not. It would have been good reporting to note that if that's the case.

If I lived up there, I'd sell my house fast and rent it back or rent something else. Seems like a house of cards and I would not be willing to be the farm on it holding up.

Sounds like they did not lose anything, they are simply not getting as much of a raise of the next three years.

Workers will get back a 1 percent wage increase after one year of the contract, in 2011, and a 2 percent increase in 2012, but that will still leave union workers earning 5.5 percent less in three years than they earned under the previous three-year deal, Lugdon said.

This is similar to a big corporation crying about profit losses. They still made money , just not as much as they had hoped for. The union workers are getting the same amount they are now, with more modest increases over the next three years. That is certainly better than the alternative!

Why are we quick to blame the wage workers? Seems to me, they don't decide how the business runs, they just help everything function. Why aren't we questioning the poor business management that allowed the company to teeter on the edge?

The average millworker makes $76,500 ??? Where do you get your numbers? I work there and the average millworker makes $55,000 with a few overtime shifts....Trust me I know. OK people......stop stabbing the workers in the back.....we should thank God this is almost done, and thank the millworkers for taking a hit for the community.

Life will go on.

GMouffette, don't you know that the new trend in the US is to blame everything on the greedy workers? Darn, if them unions would just get out of the way we could just fire people and cut the wages back to the point where the remaining work force would have to live in company housing, buy their food and clothing at the company store.

Advice to the Fraser workers. Pay down your debt as fast as you can and don't buy anymore toys for a while.

The pay cut does not matter. The workers could have taken a %75 pay cut or even work for nothing. Fraser will close its doors in just a year or two anyway. The owners want Fraser shut down and sold for scrap. Why wait 30 years to make %5 profit when you can make %200 profit in a few months selling off the parts of Fraser.

They did the right thing!! If only they could just get rid of that awful union then they might actually make some money up there!

Well said GMouffette!

This contract may have passed, which I for one am happy it did. But let us not forget that Fraser Papers is still in bankruptcy. Regardless of the wage reductions, if upper management continues its past and current managment practices we are never going to get ahead. Those of you who think that this new contract is the fix all, be prepared, keep watch because it's not the mill worker that brought this mill to where it is, and or the current economy, sure the economy doesn't help, but those of you who really know what's going on in that mill know it IS the poor managerial skills of the likes of Jeff Duton, Bill Peterson and their entire heartless regime. Wake up managers, listen to your experienced employees and let the worker make the paper that THEY take pride in. Get off your white horses, and treat these dedicated employees with respect and trust that they DO know what they are doing. Then and only then can NEWCO be successful.....................

Most of you know not to pay attention to anotherneighbor (anothercrier). She is an outsider that has a big mouth.

She does not understand that it does not matter if another union makes more money, must mean they made a better deal! Keep crying Ohio lady, soon you will find yourself back there.

Knightscross knows nothing either. The other day he sad Fraser wants to go into bankrupcy so they can sell off the mill piece by piece to make money. How dumb is that???? If they go into bankrupcy, Fraser does not get the money for selling off the bits and pieces, all the creditors get it (and lawyers).

Go back to school!

We all have to be accountable. We as a worker need to put in an honest day of work. We have clean out the welfare system and the disability system. Those who truely need these government programs should have them available to them.

Unions would not be needed if the company owners treated their workers fairly. How many people do we know who hide behind unions? We all know a few. They don't pull their weight but yell union when they get caught not doing the work or taking advantage of companies.

Unions can also be dishonest. They collect the money but do little for the employees.

Then you have our politicians, our lobbyists, your sweet heart deals, greedy CEO's and free trade. If we don't seriously get our act together this country will leave nothing to our children. We'll all be making a few dollars and hour. I don't think many of us will see early retirement. It used to be people went to work for a company thinking they would have health benefits and good pensions. I pray those days are not gone but we are quickly getting to a point where that will be a thing of the past. Pensions were thought of a "surity". Now we're left with the stock market. I think of the stock market as a CASINO. It is a gamble. Bernard Madoff the investment crook...there are still some out there. Social security.....the baby boomers will use that up really quickly. Beyond that there won't be a population to sustain it. So what are we as Americans left with? Not much time I don't think before we can reverse the damage that has been done. Or is it too late already. So much money we owe China.

We can start on our knees in prayer and pray that we make the right decisions when the next elections come around.

Sincerely, the right thing was done at the appropriate time; this isn't about who gets the most toys right now. This is tough economics and a difficult decision of many hard workers to sacrifice a little pride and a lot of hard work for the sake of their families and communities. When things stabilize, this will be on the back burner, available to the mill workers to re-visit when the timing is better. I don't see spineless oofs at all...I see smart, hardworking men and women making a sacrifice to fight another day. I admire all of your courage-it wasn't an easy choice by far, but you are all still providing for your families the best you can-while other mills have surrendered and turned their backs. Sticks and stones................hold your head up- well done!

It is now time for Unions to really step up and fight for the American worker. Go to congress and lobby against out sourcing. Lobby the government to levee taxes against corporations that place American jobs into foreign hands for greater profits. Force them to pay tax margins that would cost those corporations an equivalent amount of hiring an American worker. Stand strong against the government and bring our jobs home.

Skyhawk...you obviously should feel lucky you have a job and your union reps protecting you. This is where the numbers come from: there is a 8.5% pay cut, the average worker will loose $6,500. ($6,500 x 100%)/8.5% = $76,470.58...a pretty nice wage anywhere in the country, especially not bad in Madawaska Maine.

Great job passing this through. I would hate to see another hard working Maine town loose everything. This is no longer about greed it is about survival. I just don't know how much longer the Maine paper industry will last. You can't blame the companies, it is bad business to not provide the best for your investors. I wish the state of Maine and all the unions were a little more like Madawaska and did what they had could to keep business around.

Great news on the continued contract and well done by those that worked the negotiating on part of the mill workers....sorry you folks had to give up money but despite things labor on and make the next 3 years a turning around of your industry....make your workplace an example to others and fight to gain back what has been sacrificed for your families & community.....

Hey Native1710 if we American workers do not take a stand and run away with our tails between our legs then the abuse will just get worse. When times get better the Corporates will not be giving anything back, once it's lost there is no getting it back. Just like our jobs going to China there is no getting those back neither. By the way, I do not plan on moving to S.Maine I will stay here and get on the SQP!!

With all said and done. These workers still have their jobs and the things they cheerish the most. The free trade thing was real good to go after but for these brothers and sisters I think you did the right thing. Duane has done just about all a rep can do nowadays the way the paper mills are running. Good job Duane. I was a shiop steward Duane RG.

Wow... do the math. They are still very highly paid up there.

TOP 2% OF ALL WORKERS IN THE COUNTY WITH THOSE WAGES IF THEY DO NOT WANT THEM MANY PEOPLE WILL TRADE PLACES WITH THEM IN A MINUTE

Now it's time for those feasting at the government trough to take a similar pay cut.

I really think public office salaries should be capped to less than what a teacher makes. No one should ever run for office based on salary. Public service is best suited for those whom are pure of heart and want nothing in return. Who am I kidding? I must be dreaming.

To all of you who say "They should be lucky to have a job above minimum wage" well, let me just say that these employees have no reason to appologize for their jobs. They stuck through the thick and thin, work hard and have mediocre work conditions. Some poor some good! These folks work for their money and many have become quite educated in their fields of service. Some went on to college, some trade school to specialize in this market. They have sacrificed many years of their lives to get where they are at! People who don't like it should "shut up!" or "put up!" go apply for a job there if they're all so better off than yall!! Get a lofe folks!!! These people have some of their livelyhood taken away from them. This is drastic and I personally am very proud of them all! They do great work and earn an honest living instead of using our welfare system!

Sheep to an evenual slotter. Next will be you doing more with less workers. Look around your work area and ask yourself if your job could be done with one less person if you had to pick up the slack. You people should have stood your ground and said no. It is going to happen anyways and you will look back and wish you had stood your ground. They do not care in the least about you or your family or the community,Others have gone, literally, before you and you can follow the slide over the abyss to shut down. Learn from us, we kept saying yes because we also thought it would keep the company running. The reality was they already planned to shut us down. I predict that East Millinocket will be down it two years and we have your management runnng us. I use the term, running us, very,very loosely. It's more like running us into the ground. What is the easiest way for Brookfield to get rid of assets that they never wanted in the first place. Put management in place that don't have a clue. It is now going to be harder to save for the enevitable, but start now so when ijt happens you won't be so hard hit all at once. The internation union is doing nothing and we should get rid of them. What we need to do is join together as a state union and be willing to back each other when this happens. Our union dues are going up 17% right off. You people talk about making 2003 wages, try mid 1980's with all cost of living that has gone on.

Bill Peterson not available for comment,??? Could it be that he's out celebrating that he screw the workers again. He''s the one who should be out of a job now that he's screwed the workers.

Nothing was mentioned, at least that I saw, about their benefits. I think most of us could live on their average salaries and if they have all their benefits intact, that's worth even more. Or, maybe Obama can throw some "free" health insurance their way.

Paper mill work is pretty tough. I've only worked a few shut-downs, never in production, but don't begrudge any mill worker earnings in the mid-$50s.

I think those above who bash unions, ought to re-visit our history books. Even those of us who have never been in a union, greatly benefit from the sacrifices union organizers - men and women - made...including their lives. The five-day week, health benefits, child labor laws...all resulted from working people organizing against the abuses of corporate power.

Keying of abuses, I'm surprised the BDN did not dig down to this analysis of what is going on with Frazer. They, together with Brookfield Asssets, are not only screwing their current workers, but trying to do so to the retired workers responsible for their success. Certainly Fraser executives will exit this deal with "Golden Parachutes."

"As the controlling shareholder of Fraser Papers, with $649 million in profits in 2008, Brookfield Asset Management is planning to purchase Fraser Papers," says Mr. Ménard. "However, it is using the bankruptcy process to get out of its pension obligations."

This quote, "As the controlling shareholder of Fraser Papers, with $649 million in profits in 2008, Brookfield Asset Management is planning to purchase Fraser Papers," says Mr. Ménard. "However, it is using the bankruptcy process to get out of its pension obligations."

was found at http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/stock-alert/bam_frppf_fraser-papers-pensioners-occupy-brookfield-head-office-731456.html

Congratulations to the Fraser workers for once again giving in to the corporations and securing a better future for our children. Once again, workers are accepting to work for slave wages while the rich keep getting richer. Now the executives running Fraser will congratulate themselves with multi-million dollar bonuses for "saving the company." The workers gave in to the scare tactics too easily of "closing the doors" if this contract didn't go through. God forbid that the executives give up their multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses. If the doors would've closed, the executives would have also have lost their jobs and ridiculous salaries along with it. To save their jobs, they would've had make their own concessions. Only when workers have the courage to stand up to corporations will working and living conditions get better for the average American, instead of continually getting worse.

FightingFoo, That's probably the best, most accurate, and sarcastic reply that I've ever read on this site. It's all too true, and it all boils down to who has the power to manipulate. Has anybody seen where these managers live anyway. It is purely disgusting to see the rich control people with their livelyhood! The fraser employees did the best they could and the manipulators will continue to reap the benefits on the backs of the laborers. Sad situation if you ask me! All cuts must start from the top down in every organization and this includes government!

mainefriend you took the word right out of my mouth. the majority of people at Fraser work hard for their money. people say that the employees make to much money, well I can tell you for a fact that the people on the production floor, maintenance, and shipping earn every penny they make. Tell me how is it that management deserves to keep the pay that they make? What have they done to help this company? NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is that the hard working employees have to give up things, if they can why cna't management give up anything. If it wasn't for my husband and many other men and woment then management would not have their cushy offices, their 6 digit salariesand big bonuses for loosing the company money. m y husband works for Fraser and he works hard, and as mainefriend stated they don't always work in the greatest of conditions. they don't have the luxury of being in an airconditoned building when it is 80+degrees outside and in the mill it is over 110, do you see management working in the heat, no they are sitting in their air conditioned offices. For all of you people complaining about Fraser production workers salaries, why don't you get off your A$$ES and better yourself. why don't you move and find yourself another job. I am the proud spouse of a Fraser employee.

I understand the business aspect of this contract and will do everything in my power, like always to give 100% but what I don't like is the lack of respect for the experienced papermakers here. They seem to forget that without these people, thet wouldn't be running at all. No matter which mill makes more money is irrelivent, respect us for who we ARE!

I have a relative that works on the floor union, and he/she makes over $70k a year including their overtime. I also have 2 close friends who work in management at the mill, and they respectively make $46k and 50k a year without being paid for being on call on the weekends, or having to come in. How does a union worker who doesnt have a degree complain, when 80% of these management people ARENT making the 80k that everyone on the floor assumes. Were there "bonuses" two years ago of large sums? yes... but no one in madawaska was on the receiving end of that. Those were to Toronto... is it right? no... but my friend in management said it best..."i dont care what toronto or the guys on the floor are making.... they dont pay my bills!" I think union guys on the floor need to realize that management is making less than them (aside from a select few im sure) and they need to stop stereotyping! But thats just my opinion.

I find it outrageous that mill workers with a high school education are making higher wages than myself. I have a college degree that I worked very hard for and I will still not take home what these mill workers will make after their 8.5% cut!

who are you to say that people on the floor make so much more than management and they don't have degrees? Are you trying to say that these people are not educated. WRONG!!!!! Sure some them may not have a college education, but remember the people on the floor that work overtime, go in on calls are the ones keeping those machines running and making paper so that management can work monday thru friday in their offices. How many of them work weekends how many of them actually talk to people on the floor to find out how things are going? Sure if your relative working on the floor makes$70k a year then I know that he/she earns their money.

who am i? im someone who used to work with these ppl. the work they do is very hard, and nights arent fun to work. i have total respect for the guys and gals on the floor. i know some of them have degrees, but i know most of them do not. i would say 90% do not. i worked that job, and i know the guys. i also know what i was making when i did work at fraser on the floor. im saying these guys by no means struggle! what im saying is that its wrong of them to stereotype management in madawaska. i know 20 folds more ppl that work in production than the couple i know in management. I just think its wrong of them to complain about their pay when ppl like "Harley1" went to college, probably has or had school loans to pay off, and is still make 10s of thousands less than these union workers. thats all i was saying. anyways, i just hope the mill survives for those workers, and for the community! im sure the area would be devistated when the mill were to close!

I find it outrageous that you think a college degree entitles you to more money thay a working stiff.

a working stiff? i used to be a "working stiff" myself. anyways, your right, ppl go to college for fun, it has nothing to do with bettering your education so you can find a job in this difficult market.

I can asure you that management also earns their salaries as they are on call 24/7, are expected to be on top of things while they are on "vacation" and when you take their salaries and divide it by the true hours they put in, they make much less than the floor workers. Most of the hourly employees I know did not want to go to college, did not want to move out of Madawaska area for many different reasons and grew up being the second, third or fourth generation to work in the mill and knew exactly what they were facing as union employees of Fraser Paper. I only hope that they continue to have their jobs and are not screwed over like the employees at Great Northern!

On 2/9/10 at 2:53 PM, DEERDON wrote: I find it outrageous that you think a college degree entitles you to more money thay a working stiff.

***********************************

I agree with that, some of the time for sure.

i dont believe i said someone without a degree should make less than a person with one! some people start their own businesses without a degree and become very wealthy, then you have Professional athletes who making 7 to 9 figures without a degree. my issue is when ppl without a degree are pointing the finger at ppl in management who are making 20k less than them a year?! how do u justify that?! they should be happy with the great paying job they have, instead of taking it for granted. cause after fraser.... it wont be very peachy for most of them! I understand the frustration of those workers, when they see ppl getting bonuses a few years ago, but again, those werent those ppl in madawaska management who are making less than them, those were the people at the tippy-top of the pyramid. anyways, we can agree to disagree. i hope the madawaska mill survives for that communities sake!

Kudos to this union for making such a tough decision, but it will be the best for all parties involved. This union should give lessons to the PAC/union that is supposedly representing our Maine state workers - SEIU Local 1989 doesn't have a clue if compared to this group.

70K to work the floor on a paper mill and you think your special. Paper has been there long before you, will be around long after you, and you should be grateful that they don't pull up right now? Talk about a sense of entitlement, you people think that you are keeping the industry going? What happens when the company relocates to China or wherever? I gaurantee you this, they will still produce just fine without having to put up with you.

i find it funny that you think it is ok to make that much running paper machines. But when it is flipped around and technicians are making $100K at a power plant just to run the turbines, etc. and your bill keeps going up, you cry foul! Please people common sense. And ofcourse managers should make the most, they have the most vested in the company and are responsible for bigger decisions than "should I press the blue button or the green button" come on, most your jobs could be automated anyway. Simple control logic. And as far as cutting leadership first? What happens to an army when you kill its top general. exactly.

On 2/9/10 at 2:53 PM, DEERDON wrote:

I find it outrageous that you think a college degree entitles you to more money thay a working stiff.

*****

Of course it does! Why would students even bother going into tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt if there was no promise of a payoff in the end? I know that's what I was expecting. That's just not the way it turned out. Our generation was lied to by our parents and teachers. They kept telling us that we need to go to college to have a better lifestyle than them. But in reality, what really happened was that we need a college degree just to get the same darn jobs our parents' generation had straight out of high school. That puts our generation at a serious disadvantage. We were dealt a two-part blow. The first blow was that we cannot afford our parents' lifestyle because of all that college debt (which we need just to get the same jobs as our parents' generation). Because of the college debt, we can't afford to buy houses and all the toys (motorcycles, sports cars, ATVs, etc.) that our parents are/were able too (why do you think young adults keep returning home nowadays?). The second blow is that we cannot afford a decent lifestyle because of inflation and wages just not keeping up with the ever increasing inflation. Adjusted for inflation, the average adult today enters the workforce earning $5000-$15000 less than people in the 70's and 80's. The dollar just doesn't stretch as far for us as it did with our parents. Our lifestyle is riddled with debt and the feeling of never being able to get ahead. I think someone has to apologize for getting us into this mess. Our generation didn't go to college to end off worse than our parents.

Deerdon just saved us all a couple of trillion dollars...........it turns out we DON"T have any need for education beyond high school! Neat.

There's nothing good about this, but at least their kids can say that their Dad or Mom still has pride of work and will take care of their family. They'll get up every day and go to work. That's good for kids.

Slave wages?? Whoever said that, are you for real??? Whether it's $50,000 $60,000 or $70,000, that's good money here in the County. Most of these guys have no college education, yet make good money. More than I do, and I have a masters degree. AND I AM NOT COMPLAINING.

I just took a hit of the same magnitude as the Fraser guys. It's no fun, but it's called SUCKING IT UP and remembering that at least 15% of people in this country who wants jobs can't even get one.

Unions suck. I'm an ex-union rep and I will just say that UNIONS SUCK. Maybe if they focused on their MISSION instead of trying to get their crony socialist hack politician buddies elected, business would be better and workers would make more. Stupid unions. They're just as bad as corporate greedheads, if not worse.

fightingfoo, very well said and sooo true. For a while a higher education did help people do better, but it has been short lived. I feel so bad for these kids who try to play the game right, only to end up tens of thousands of dollars in debt (sort of like starting out in life with a house mortgage-only you have no home). Colleges, universities, are glad to take your money, but there are no guarentees once you graduate that you will have a job-only a garentee that you will have debt. The more people who graduste from college, the more worthless a college degree becomes. It is the new high school diploma only now it is not free. This world is upside down.

I find it interresting that deerdon blames his parents for him not beeing able to have what they have.. I beeing a parent of two girls which i have helped through their own college education , one his a high school teacher and the other a university proffessor .. I have made many sacrifice to help them through these times.. Doing so i was not able to afford many toys as most people call them , i was not able neither to put much away for harder times , and now that i am over fifty years old i thought it would be my wife's and my turn , but now seems like the good times are gone , fraser is on the brisk of bankrupty , they owe a fortune in my pension fund , and are doing all they can to get away without paying a cent into i t.... as madawaska employees just did we in edmundston made huge concessions this autumn... and now they want more .. all the time with a gun pointed at our heads.. give in or we will close , think of your community , Rest assure myfriend that i understand your complaints, though as one of my daughters husband is a lawyer , whose parents did not have the financial ability to help much .. he has a job .. but his salary not yet represents his education... and he does have a large debts .. this situation is stopping them from buying a house , which would be nice as they just had a baby.. well just say that times are harder now , hope it gets better .. good luck son and i hope your college education gets you in the future the salary you deserves..

its done. if you arent a millworker. shut up.

Lets just 50,000 > That is Great Money for Un-Educated Working Class

Yeh they work hard ~ there are also a lot of jobs that you have to work hard at that do not make That.

Unions R outta of here in America ~ The have Caused Prices to be so High a lot of People can not afford what they make.

Freaking Toilet Paper is out of Sight ~ The rest of the World is Competing and there is nothing we can do about it but go with the flow.

When A Paper Maker Makes as much or more than Jobs That Require an Education ~ I feel NO Sorrow for Union Jobs in Manufacturing. Just look at Union Jobs at Auto Plants ~ And The price We Pay for an Auto.

Union Workers have always Looked Down on The Rest of Us

Feel Sorry for Them / Not A Change

I find myself using less and less paper everyday. Hopefully some of these employees will use this gift of 3 more years as an opportunity to prepare themselves for the continued downsizing of that industry.

It seems that the prevailing sentiment for everyone is against one or the other. Management/college taking of advantage of labor force. Labor force not deserving what they get. We all sign contracts and get what we deserve. Management doesn't exist without a capable work force. A capable work force can't get their jobs done without people completing scheduling , payroll, evaluations, etc. The products produced, need for those products and the margins of profit determine all salaries as well as (yes we hate to admit it) profit for stock holders. We should quit slamming everyone involved in this process and be thankful that there was resolution and thousands weren't forced to go on unemployment or leave the lives and areas they love.

No doubt, based upon what they have had in the past, the union workers have taken a hit..... been there too, so I do understand. Workers beware! The owners do not want these mills running and competing with other Canadian mills and will be finding any convenient excuse to close them! Your decision to accept this contract just dedlays the inevitable.

I think the company won the battle but they haven't won the war yet.

This will get very interesting. Histroy has just repeated itself. Remember the years 1970 ,1987 and now 2010.

We never had all these problems until we had free trade agreements ,and until we elect polititians that do not support free trade , these problems will only get worse everything cost as much now as it did before free trade and most things cost more now. Lets not wait until our standard of living is below that of a third world country which is where we are headed, our only hope is to get rid of the current polititians before this country is completely destroyed.The only reason free trade exist is because the current polititians are only concerned with high profits for big business,wall street and themselves.Obviously if they were concerned about the majority of Americans they would'nt have guided us to the point we are at now

If you're going to talk the talk, you need to walk the walk. You start off at $14 an hour, multiplied by 2,000 hours per year, equals $28,000 per year. $116 a week for health insurance, no sick days, no vacation time for the first year. You can only miss 3 days a year without being reprimanded. No schedule, you're on call. Free weekends, forget it.You can apply for a job bid, but there hasn't been any for the last 5 years. Only management has been hiring. Since I had a college degree, I was able to get a job in maintenance after 3 years. I have now been working for 19 years in the maintenance dept. Because of all the job cuts and my coworkers migrating south I am now the youngest in my department. I can't plan for any holidays, time with family,or vacations because Fraser sets the schedule. As frenchpilot007 said, "the SQP program is looking better and better all the time." . As for harley007, the best thing you ever did was move on 10 years ago. By the way everyone, how was the second half of the Super Bowl? I wouldn't know, I had to go to work because the machines were down, no choice.

Mr. Lugdon do your homework before you go off at the mouth! I am the wife of a labor management employee and for you to ask him to take a roll back in pay is to ask him to work for below minimum wage at times. He has not had a salary raise in a few years, he has had to give back two weeks vacation last year and was forced to sell two weeks vacation because of a lack of enough management to cover those vacations. He works over 12 hours each day on average and he is basically on call 24 hours a day…would you like to be woken up two to three times a night to make major decisions when things are going wrong on your machine? Would you like to have time to sit down with your family and eat supper together a few times a week? For those who have children still at home, would you like to be able to see them and have time to be part of their lives? There have been weeks where he goes into the mill, comes out, eats supper, goes to bed for a few hours and goes back into the mill and all for the same pay! When the hourly men worked on Christmas they were paid 3 times the pay…my husband did not get one red cent more for working Christmas day!

I think Mr. Lugdon that your time would be better spent going after the real problem and that is our elected who deny the American people their freedoms by supporting foreign paper markets before their own! Let’s see our elected give back 8.5% of their wages NOW-after all this cut will mean a cut in the taxes being paid to the State!!!!! Free trade spells slave labor! SLAVE LABOR BROUGHT ON BY OUR UNCONSTITUTIONAL GOV.!

So what is next, I GUESS now the Canadian Govn't won't be able to come up with the 80,000,000.00 loan to Fraser or Newco.

Let's see, the govn't will say the ecomony is to slow to pay out that kind of money, for American workers, HA HA. Look at all those zeros.

What to do is the 64,000,000.00 question. I feel bad for you county folks, as have been all over the world, and you are the best.

Yes it is cold, but have our winters been warmer lately, the last few years. It wasn't to much below zero, last year, and this year looks good too. The St. John River Valley is the best place in the world to live, and with globle warmings, who knows, maybe the population will come back. But not in our times.

Where have we herd this story before?

FRASER has a new name. We are now called WALLMART PAPER - 'WHERE WE ROLLBACK WAGES'

A college degree means nothing if you don't major in something usefull...Just look at some of the stupid courses they now offer.. A degree in Liberal Arts isn't going to get you many job offers...It's what you take in college that matters.....My uncle worked 20 years at St. Regis in Bucksport playing cribbage and reading the paper unless there was a break down on his paper machine...The guys in the maintence building spent alot of time building ice shacks and trailors for their ATV's and snowmobiles....Real hard work...LOL...

your management husband isn't the only person who puts in long hours for this company and has lost lots of time with his/her children. Losts of the floor employees have done the same, why because they want this company to succeed and be around for a long time. So when the people on floor were sent home because they "had no orders" all employees were out for 1 week, they either had to take vacation time or have no pay, or If they are sick and cannot go to work they again they lose out on a days pay (or more depanding ) becasue they do not have sick time. Gee your husband being a SALARIED employee still had his pay no matter what. If they had to close the mill for a week or two or if he was out sick he still gets a full paycheck. So as far as getting called to make tough decisions, does he actually go into the mill to make his decisions or does he tell them what to do and then go back to bed. When floor workers get called in they actually have to go into work do what needs to be done and then come home sleep for a couple of hours and then get up to go back into work for their shifts.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2010/02/10/maine_house_endorses_bringing_uss_jfk_to_portland/

Hey harley07, Now that you have had to take a cut will you screw yourselves again with a production slow down or maybe damage a machine! Yeah, that will show them.

User5225......Ill say it again, The numbers you got from the newspaper quote were wrong, your math may be correct but my paycheck, and others that I have asked usually don’t make more that $55,ooo. (Before the cut, and taxes) Yes we are lucky, and should not be blamed for the mess; it is the economy that’s to blame.

For those of you who think we don’t work hard....shame on you! I'd like to see you follow me around on my job for 12 hours, your legs would give out before 2:00 a.m.

Did anyone see the show Sunday night, right after the football game? It was great! The CEO of WM (waste management) went undercover as a new employee in his company, he was fired on his second day at work because he "couldn't cut it", and when he returned to his regular job, he thanked and gave promotions to his employees. I think all CEO's should be required to spend a week with his/her entry level employees. (oh, next week the CEO of Hooters will start at the bottom job of his company)

I read all the comments above......all I have to say is UNBELIEVABLE. ...keep scratching each others eyes out, I don't think an education or no education can fix stupidity. (now watch the next ones below)

Hey Skyhawk... I won't scratch your eyes out.... I'm with you man! Stupid is..as stupid does... I'd say.. see you at work, but I don't know who you are.... LOL! But at least we'll be there til they kick us out!!

Man, this stuff is more entertaining than T.V.!

WilliamDS

Where have you been?

it is amazing to read these comments...i am probably younger then 95% of you guys that have commented...the voting is over and done with so why don't you just accept what has happened and wait for the future to unfold itself instead of trying to foresee what is going to happen. The world could end tomorrow for all we know so what's done is done...END OF STORY. All this bickering and fighting through these comments is ridiculous and freakin funny! Adults...? WHo cares who knows their facts or not...big deal! Take your information where it is wanted and needed instead of a comments page of the bangor daily news..you're wasting your time. Come Together