Palin rallies 5,000 in Bangor

Wow, it's so blatant that the BDN is extremist for Obama. I can't read all the articles everyday, but in the ones I have read, it's become so obvious that it borders far more on the ridiculous than it does on good journalism. It's supposed to be about a scale Abby, Eric, and editors; not a slam.

"Joe the plumber"...isn't one.

Oopsie.

http://tinyurl.com/lzcgd

I know what steel-toed boots are, but what in heck are "Carhartts"? (someone explain it to me). So, 5,000 people showed-up to get a glimpse of Sarah Palin. Wonder how many will really vote for her and McCain? "Joe the Plumber" really could give a diddily-damn who is President...he just wants what we all want for America. Guess what that is, folks?

Johninphilippines asked what are Carhartts -- this (like our Maine LLBean) is simply a brand of work clothing and outdoor clothing.

Thanks, "Carol1". By the way, how come you are up at 1:49 in the morning? It is the same time here, but in the afternoon, a whole date day ahead of you! No I know what Carhartts are. I'm forever in your debt, honey!

My husband and I attended the Palin rally at BIA, and we are so glad we did! We had a long wait in line, but it was worth our time and effort. One thing that amazed us was the number of enthusiastic young volunteers and attendees. We expected the McCain/Palin supporters to be overwhelmingly in the senior citizen camp. How wrong we were! We spoke with some of them and were impressed with their love for Conservative values.

At the rally itself, we were impressed with Rick Tyler, the color guard, Miss Maine, the Nokomis high school band, Lee Greenwood (singing our National Anthem and his signature song, "Proud to Be an American"), the various dignitaries, Senator Snowe, and Governor Palin.

And the CROWD! They were excited, happy Americans. They cheered, whistled, waved their signs, sang, clapped, and shouted. At the same time, they were respectful and orderly. We witnessed no disruptive attendees. They represented Maine well and made us proud to belong to this beautiful state.

Instead of insulting them -- or insulting the protesters at the nearby mall, wouldn't it be better to recognize and respect our fundamental rights to assembly, to free speech, to private opinions, and to vote our conscience? Our republic, our democratic form of government, our liberty, and all of the blessings we enjoy as Americans are precious! Let's never forget, we are Americans FIRST and there is more to unite us than to divide us.

Well, thanks to the BDN, just reading this story lowered my IQ by about 50 points. I doubt that the BDN will enter this story in the 2008/2009 Maine Press Association contest for most "intelligent" political coverage.

Keep up the good work, BDN.

Last one to leave, please turn the lights out.

Cheers.

The subhed for this story reads: "Alaskan maverick delivers folksy GOP message."

In any newsroom that had any journalistic ethics, such a headline would be reserved to the editorial page, not the news page.

Who ever said Palin was a "maverick" except Palin herself?

Under AP journalism rules, you don't write headlines about political candidates call themselves unless you put it in quotes, and then quote them from their own speech. This is Journalism 101.

Who said Palin delivered a "folksy" message? What does "folksy" even mean? Who said it?

If the reporter said it, the reporter has no place saying it. If Palin or a supporter said, "She sounds folksy" then the quote needs to be put in quotes and attributed directly to the person who said it to the reporter.

Seriously BDN, UMaine freshman journalism students would get an F if they turned this stuff in. It's even below the standards of a high school newspaper. This crap is why Maine is falling behind the other New England states in all measures of academic and professional achievement.

Rise above.

Cheers.

I attended the Sarah Palin rally, my first political rally. This is the first election I have become involved in, as I feel so strongly in maintaining our Constitution, and American values. Palin embodies this to perfection. From the begginning of the rally, to the end, Palin made us feel "PROUD" to be Americans. Not ashamed. She honors our Veterans, and our military, reminding us that they have fought for our right to assemble, and live freely.

Any time I listen or talk to a liberal, I am made to feel like a second class citizen, a person with a low IQ. The elitist mentality of the Democrats is wearing very thin with the silent majority. For once, I was in a crowd of people, where I could talk freely about America and our values this country was established on. God was even mentioned; many times. Greenwood's moving song, "Proud to be an American" set the tone. The rally held a healthy tone, with a spirit of freedom.

If Obama is elected, our country will shift further to the left, given the Congress is held by a Democratic majority. Many of our freedoms will be eroded; many that were experienced in Bangor at the Palin rally. Our freedom of speech will be one of the first to go, with the radio airwaves facing loss of this right. Already in our society, political correctness has begun to hamper freedom of speech. We will be living under a Socialist regime. Truly socialist, as we are leaning in that direction now. We will see our taxes skyrocket, and inflation shoot up, as the government will be forced to print more money to accomodate Obama's economic plans. The state of Maine is in crisis, largely due to 30 years of Democratic rule. Small businesses and young people have left the state in record numbers. Welfare is skyhigh, demanding over a billion dollars in the state's budget. Environmental regulations have crippled areas such as Millinocket, and beyond.

I just point out the mess Maine is in, when people say they want to elect Obama. The entire country will be facing these societal disasters, and our once proud country, will vanish.

Even though the Bangor Daily did not give a fair and balanced report of the rally, this is what happened. The rally was a true testiment to the freedoms this country enjoys today. Great job Sarah! And thanks to the Air National Guard in Bangor, Maine for hosting this inspiring event!!!!!!!

Anyone who votes for McCain Palin is a a fool.

To the women of Maine: I agree, it is exciting to have a possible women vice-president. I understand that it is even more exciting to think that she “is one of us” and I’m sure she can relate with the people of Maine, with a lot of people, I’m sure. She is a hockey mom, she is down to earth, she hunts and fishes and so on. I get it. That is exciting, really. But please take the time to examine the Sarah Palin phenomenon. Are you excited about the issues that she stands for, her views on women’s issues? Her views on heath care? Her experience with economic issues? Her foreign relation positions? Her ability to be commander in chief, if needed. Is this what gets the large cheering crowds, or is it the character she represents. I want to cheer for women, I want to cheer for moms who can manage to do it all, I want to cheer for someone with a special needs child, I want to cheer for someone I would enjoy having “upta camp”, but I can not vote for someone who does not share the same views I do, who does not have the education or experience for this job, who is a “women candidate, but not a women’s candidate”. I have to look beyond the phenomenon. So give a cheer to women, but tell Sarah Palin, thanks but no thanks.

Dear Connie,

Your heart is obviously in the right place but I don't see the situation in the same way. It has been the Republicans who have gutted the Constitution not the Democrats. Bush's invasion of Iraq was not only in violation of international law but American law as well. His spying on Americans was against the Constitution. His conning the Congress was anti-American in that it thwarted our checks and balances system.

An economist just awarded the Nobel Prize has released a book identifying the occupation of Iraq as key in America's oncoming depression. It cost three trillion dollars that we could have used in a productive way here.

It is Obama who is the person who studied Constitutional Law. He is the one who respects our Constitution, founding principles, and will restore America.

And this is so typically LIBERAL: calling me a fool! Oh, last week I was called an "imbecile". Is this all Liberals can do, is name call?

Since the vast majority of those serving in the Armed Services, including 2 of my children, one of whom is attached to the Air Guard in Bangor, are supporters of McCain/Palin, then you are in effect, calling those who defend you, and your right to name call, FOOLS!

I am highly insulted, and will pass this on to my children and others who proudly protect YOU, and your right to call us Fools.

There is no reason why people can not have a healthy discussion as to why they endorse one candidate or the other. Is this name calling due to the fact you find issue with my objection to Socialism? Obama has made no attempt to hide the fact he wants to "redistribute the wealth". That statement is not only socialistic, is it Marxist/Communist. This is not exactly what this country was founded on. This economic plan also fosters "CLASS WARFARE!"

You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot stengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting CLASS HATRED!

Dear Tewhiti,

I agree with you, about some of the Bush's administration. Hence, the McCain/Palin ticket is so attractive to me. Both have stood up to their own party to weed out corruption.

The Democrats in Maine, and beyond, trample the Constitution daily. The 2nd and 4th amendment rights come to mind. The 4th amendment right, to come onto one's property without due process, with an illegal warrent, has taken place in Maine numerous time of late. There are at least 3 lawsuits in effect now. Check out this website: www.rao-of-me.com and this website: www.mainetaxabuse.org. You will see the Dems in Maine have repeatedly broken the Constitution.

And to Shannon, I find Sarah Palin quite qualified to lead this country. More so than most. I am amazed at her ability to go up against the oil companies, and Ted Stevens. Can you imagined how often she was threatened? Her experience on the economy??? She runs a state! She makes executive decisions. This is more than any of the other candidates have done, except McCain who ran a fighter squadron in the Vietnam War. Foregin relations? Of course she has. Think Oil, think gas pipeline, think the fisheries. All these require work with foreigners.

And in terms of a woman's right to abortion, I applaud someone, finally, standing up for the unborn.

Now McCain lies about Joe the Plumber. Not a plumber, not registered to vote, don't want a business, owes back taxes, no plumbers license. I am so tired of the McCain- Palin lies. Tired of Palin spewing hate.

"Thank God" November 4th. isn't far off. It would be nice if our children and grandchildren don't have to hear or read anymore of this hatred and foolish comments . I find it hard to believe that so many people send these, some just to see if they can get another nasty response from others.

As for the ones slamming Maine, if you don't like it here you're welcome to leave . We won't even miss you ! . I thank my God everyday that I was born and raised in this beautiful state. I wouldn't live anywhere else.

God Bless our Troops ! God Bless the U.S.A. !

Sarah Palin is the most unqualified of all the candidates to have the job of leading the United States of America. I agree with ShannonG, that although she draws large crowds at speeches and knows how to fish and hunt does not make her the best choice of leaders to run this country. Her Alaskan lifestyle outside of hunting and fishing has nothing at all in common with Maine, since Alaskans don't have to pay taxes, they recieve monthly checks of around $2,000.00 per person as long as they have lived in Alaska for a year, etc. The financials of that state don't even begin to compare to Maine or any other state! As for "Joe The Plumber" it is doubtful he will ever own a plumbing business, since according to public record he owes the IRS tax money and he does not even have his plumbing license. One thing I know about being in business is that in order to be successful, you have to know how to manage your own personal finances first before you can ever think about starting your own business. As for pro-choice issues, every person is accountable to themselves and God for their own actions or inactions. There are many people across this nation that have stood up for the unborn, not just Sarah Palin. One does not have to give a speech in order to stand up for the unborn. There are several reasons that I will be casting my vote for Barack Obama.

You couldn't script this stuff any better: Joe the "Plumber" owes nearly $1200.00 in unpaid taxes. Yet another great "vetting" job by the McCain crew.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=6047360&page=1

Let these raucous folks enjoy their little Palinparty - in less than three weeks the power will be turned off and they'll be hitching their wagons to the next pseudo-star.

Thanks BDN...it is clear that you have nothing better to write except articles about Palin...I am sure there are other news you could cover. Since Monday morning we get it....Palin came to BIA....what is going to be the Headline for tomorrow? "Palin was here"?..."Palin won't return to Maine before the election?"

"Palin rallies 4,999 in Bangor (because we counted the Secret Service Agent)?"

I remind you BDN of your poor journalism why when you call me to subscribe that these be reasons why. Are you trying to outdo the coverage you gave the Mechanical Gorilla?

I believe BDN is uninformed about someone else running for President. Makes me wonder if BDN has something against Obama.

We all will answer to God someday for what we have/have not done here on earth. Thank God that we still have leaders who realize this fact.

Vote for what is right morally. Vote to uphold God's definition of marriage. Vote for those who stand up for the innocent - for the unborn. Vote for those who believe God's revealed word and respect it.

I hope God has mercy and grace on our nation and in the end I hope that many will repent of any sins committed against the unborn, sins committed against their neighbors, and ultimately, sins committed against God.

Pray that God gives our nation His grace and that we get righteous leaders!

Amazing how the "Drive by" Liberal media attack and distort. Using sound bytes to distort truths and facts. No one has to be a master plummer to work as a plummer. Talk about journalistic "F". I am sure if the investigated Ayers relationship with Obama as agressively as they did Joe, I am sure they could sound byte a nasty story together on that. Thing is, you won't see it. Where is responsible journalism nowadays? I think it went away when the millenians like Obama came along. Oh yeah, I am late paying my property taxes once in a while, just like millions of other Americans. I guess that mus render my opinion invalid...

Speaking of Mr. Ayers, I am sure that most people at some point in time or another has met someone that they emphatically did not like their actions. We all know of people who committed some type of crime or was engaged in some kind of illegal activity. That does not mean that we were part of their actions or somehow guilty by association. The day that Obama is charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, will be the day I might start to believe in this so-called conspiracy theory. I wish people would quit it about Obama being some kind of muslim terrorist or the anti-christ because he is none of those things. He is a decent, law abiding african-american christian that I believe will work harder than any president we have ever had lead this country should he be elected president.

It scares me to think that so many of you are so defensive when it comes to the issue of this man Senator obama and Ayers. I have heard so many of you give your opinions on what you THINK happened between Obama nad Ayers but what really scares me is that when Obama is asked the questions about him socializing with Ayers he tap dances around the question and has never given the American people a straight answer or the truth. Obama was 8 years old when he met Ayers but he doesn't mention how he was in Ayers living room in the 90's. Come on people Obama is a smart man i'll give him that one, which makes me realize that he knew all bout Ayers, Obama would have been in his late 20's early 30's. In 2001 Ayers said he wished he would have bombed more. How can so many of you be so convinced that all of this that we're hearingis all lies, Obama has never looked us in the eyes and told us the truth, Yes i agree he half answered the question Wednesday night. I want to know the truth along with so many other Americans.

I was un-decided when i came into this but the more and more that i see obama tap dance around the Re. Wright, Achorn and the Ayers issues it scares me and makes me realize that John McCain is for real, he's an American hero, he fought and fought for us to keep us safe. When i hear so many of you dis-respect this man and call him names and that saddens me. When Senator McCain was offered an early release from the war because he was badly beaten he refused and kept on fighting what a True American Hero.. I took my family to see Sarah Palin yesterday, i'm glad we went, we met a lot of un-deciders that are tierd of seeing Obama tap dance around these serious questions, how can you people stand up for someone that American really doesn't know. Don't VOTE party this year, Please Think First and VOTE for your family and thier safety, Senator McCain has already proved that he would fight to keep us all safe from harm.

I have a question for those of you that are critisizing these Americans that are standing up for Senator John McCain who once stood up for them.

My question is how can so many of you be so defensive on the Obama and Ayers issues when Obama hasn't even told us the truth about his relationship with Ayers. Please when you answer this question, answer it with facts not mumble jumble, we've heard enough of that.

Before you reply to me, Please realize that i'm not upset or trying to start an argument. I'm just posting my thoughts like you all.

Thank you and enjoy your day.

Here's a question for everyone.......if given the chance to have the perfect country, what would that entail? What would you all like to see our country be like? The reason I am asking this important question is to see if anything we all have in common, instead of fighting and calling names. Solet all your ideas flow and we'll see what the outcome would be. This could be fun.

let me get the ball rolling......how about honesty and integrity in all aspects of government.

I for one see little difference between Mccain or Obama as far as there view and how it would affect me. The beauty of our government is that the other branches will be there to temper either one of them. Which brings me down to a single issue voter, obama wont vot to protect life of unborn children and for me personally that is reason to vote against him. Not talking about outlawing abortion, I would settle for a leader that would actually work for a far lower number in our nation.

This is from a post last night that may have been lost in all the fighting and I really liked it. I hope Pumaman doesn't mind the repost. It was in answer to Palin being qualified.

"Yes. And you are qualified too. The U.S. Constitution provides the criteria. It is not based on elite schooling or family connections, or a test, or prescribed experience. Understand, that is no accident. The founding fathers had plenty of ink. They would have written more rules if they needed to. They expressly did not. They designed a government to be "OF THE PEOPLE". Meaning... you. Or Sarah Palin. You ARE fully qualified. Don't doubt yourself. You are every bit as wise and exactly as "qualified" as Joe Biden. NONE of the candidates is your better. You are their equal. Be proud of that."

Good morning Duckwa, I can see your point on the abortion issue. It really shouldn't be a tough call but unfortunately for some it is. Whatever their reasoning is I can't explain. Maybe that is why we have such a great country is the fact that we can choose and vote our own conscience. Isn't that what truley having freedom is all about? Thank you for your comment.....have a wonderful day!

Is this the best people can come up with is Obama and Ayers? Obama explained his previous relationships with Ayers. What amazes me is people are quick to point fingers and because McCain served and fought for our Country and Palin can see Russia from her doorstep or has kids makes them stand out to add more qualifications to take office.

My Father served in Vietnam, slept in trees, ditches, blown off a Jeep, but you don't see people suggesting he run from President because he fought for our Country. My mother raised kids...should she be a VP?

I am not saying who I am for as I am undecided still, but some of you McCain people need to lay off the negativity as that man is not perfect either. There is more slander and name calling then facts on here, if you like someone speak positive, give the individual a positive image.

"According to Lucas County, Ohio court records, there is a Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher who has a state income tax lien of $1,182.98. According to the court record he lives on a street that is part of the Lincoln Green subdivision.

And Joe the Plumber's Father appears to be Robert Wurzelbacher right wing fanatic and contributor who is the son in law of..... you're not going to believe this. Charles Keating.

This just gets better and better.

I agree Duckwa that there is little difference between McCain and Obama as far as the economy goes, that's why i bring up Senator McCain and his proven abilities to stand up for our Country.....

I wasn't the only person that listened to Obama the other night, he never answered why is still was socializing with Ayers in the 90's which obama would have been in his late 20's early 30's. Mccain should have beat him up over this and he didn't. IT'S a HUGE ISSUE to the American people, he has not been truthful with us about this issue he was in Ayers living room in the 90's, we haven't heard this from him just from proven facts that the goverment has released, and if he can't be truthful on this issue then how can you trust him on all his other views, heath insurance, taxes etc.

I wasn't the only person that listened to Obama the other night, he never answered why he still was socializing with Ayers in the 90's which obama would have been in his late 20's early 30's he knew all about Ayers don't fool yourself. Mccain should have beat him up over this and he didn't. IT'S a HUGE ISSUE to the American people, he has not been truthful with us about this issue he was in Ayers living room in the 90's, we haven't heard this from him just from proven facts that the goverment has released, and if he can't be truthful on this issue then how can you trust him on all his other views, heath insurance, taxes etc.

ALL OF THIS ASIDE. CHECK THE VOTING RECORDS OF WHO YOU HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE FOR AND SEE IF THEY ARE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU WILL BE HAPPY WITH LATER. STRONG LABOR UNIONS - DEMS. SMALL BUSINESS - REPUBLICANS ESPECIALLY IN STATE AND FEDERAL SENATES.

After yesterday's appearance, it became easier for me to envision Mrs. Palin in The White House. Then this morning I received this link, which enabled me to envision Mrs. Palin in The White House with greater vividness: www.palinaspresident.us You betcha.

Some lovely quotes from the comments above.....

"For once, I was in a crowd of people, where I could talk freely about America and our values this country was established on. God was even mentioned; many times. Greenwood's moving song, "Proud to be an American" set the tone. The rally held a healthy tone, with a spirit of freedom. "

My response - I don’t know if I will ever see a day in my life where God and politics aren’t brought together. What document what proof is there to say that the president must be a perfect Christian? I cant take it anymore. Whether or not someone is a Christian has absolutely no bearing on their ability to run this country effectively. When will people start to realize that. Separation of church and state is crucial!

"We will be living under a Socialist regime. Truly socialist, as we are leaning in that direction now. We will see our taxes skyrocket, and inflation shoot up, as the government will be forced to print more money to accommodate Obama's economic plans."

My response - Oh we will??? We will turn into a Socialist regime? Is that because you think Obama is a Muslim terrorist? I am so confused at this how anyone would ever think this could happen under Obama’s presidency. Ill call you up in November of next year after Obama has been in a year and see how you feel then…

"To the women of Maine: I agree, it is exciting to have a possible women vice-president. I understand that it is even more exciting to think that she “is one of us” and I’m sure she can relate with the people of Maine, with a lot of people, I’m sure. She is a hockey mom, she is down to earth, she hunts and fishes and so on. I get it. That is exciting, really. But please take the time to examine the Sarah Palin phenomenon. Are you excited about the issues that she stands for, her views on women’s issues? Her views on heath care? Her experience with economic issues? Her foreign relation positions? Her ability to be commander in chief, if needed. Is this what gets the large cheering crowds, or is it the character she represents. I want to cheer for women, I want to cheer for moms who can manage to do it all, I want to cheer for someone with a special needs child, I want to cheer for someone I would enjoy having “upta camp”, but I can not vote for someone who does not share the same views I do, who does not have the education or experience for this job, who is a “women candidate, but not a women’s candidate”. I have to look beyond the phenomenon. So give a cheer to women, but tell Sarah Palin, thanks but no thanks. "

My response - I wish all the women in this country felt this way. I just want to scream at the top of my lungs, “YOU DON’T HAVE TO VOTE FOR HER JUST BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN!” A lot of women are like this right now and it has nothing to do with her sex…..Could she run this country if McCain dies? The answer is no!

"I find Sarah Palin quite qualified to lead this country. More so than most. I am amazed at her ability to go up against the oil companies, and Ted Stevens. Can you imagined how often she was threatened? Her experience on the economy??? She runs a state! She makes executive decisions. This is more than any of the other candidates have done, except McCain who ran a fighter squadron in the Vietnam War. Foreign relations? Of course she has. Think Oil, think gas pipeline, think the fisheries. All these require work with foreigners."

My response - Although I do completely disagree with you I do find it assuming that you wrote as your closing line. “All these require work with foreigners.” Not foreign countries….that made my day…

"We all will answer to God someday for what we have/have not done here on earth. Thank God that we still have leaders who realize this fact.

Vote for what is right morally. Vote to uphold God's definition of marriage. Vote for those who stand up for the innocent - for the unborn. Vote for those who believe God's revealed word and respect it. I hope God has mercy and grace on our nation and in the end I hope that many will repent of any sins committed against the unborn, sins committed against their neighbors, and ultimately, sins committed against God.

Pray that God gives our nation His grace and that we get righteous leaders! "

My response - Oh this is a great one. What does the fact that John McCain and Sarah Palin’s Christianity have to do with anything. Obama+Biden are Christians and with the exception of their negativity against gay marriage they do not let it cloud their judgments. In such a Christian Nation I don’t know if we will ever see the day that it is widely accepted that its my choice if I want an abortion. If two men want to get married it is their choice no one else's. What are people so afraid of? If you are against gay marriage...and you say it is because it is in the bible....where???? what page??? what book??? what verse???? I just cant write anymore because this wonderful christian nation we live in some will just never understand.....ask yourself this - if two men that work in your office want to get married, "What affect does that have on your life?" NOTHING....it has nothing to do with you....

Jenna T you cant be serious. I have seen that link and it completely makes fun of her. I think you are being sarcastic or at least i Hope so...

Jenna T you cant be serious. I have seen that link and it completely makes fun of her. I think you are being sarcastic or at least i Hope so...

Well you certainly had a lot to say concerned15, I don't blame you for not wanting to write anymore.

We live in a free Country, If these people don't want to believe that gay marriage and all of your other issues

are right then that's thier right we do live in a free country...Well...for now anyway..

Jenna T, Come on, that was so lame........

God help us!

ShannonG, i take it your a democrat put nicely as i see once again Mrs.Palins experience comes into play ( she is running for VP), have you ever asked yourself if OBAMA has the experience to become (PRESIDENT) if you ask me i dont even know how people even think for a minute that Obama is going to do anything to change the way this world is going down hill. He doesnt care about YOU. OH and you cant vote for her because she does not share the same views as you, so i guess that means your going to vote for OBAMA because you believe in killing innocent babies> your a real winner along with all the other ignorant democrats. freedom of speech is one thing everyone has a right to it but killing a person is another. last time i checked people went to jail for that maybe thats what we need to start doing when it comes to this disgusting law that Obama voted for and had passed when it came to abortion. I DONT KNOW HOW ANYONE CAN VOTE FOR A MAN THAT YOU CAN LOOK RIGHT AT ANd SEE IS A LIAR . I think sarah Palin did a great job yesterday at least she made the effort to come to maine you know why biden didnt because obama/biden dont care if they get maines vote cause he doesnt care about our state. McCain/Palin ARE going to be the next President/Vice President you wait and see and things will change. Oh and tewhiti Obama may have studied Constiutional Law but believe me he DOES NOT RESPECT anything when it comes to AMERICA

That's Right!!!! Go McCain/Palin........

citizenof brewer......not all democrats believe in abortion and the killing of innocent babies. I am a democrat and don't believe in abortion. I don't consider myself ignorant either, I was educated in a fine Maine education system. Abortion is a discusting act of violence against human life. I do believe that there are lots of other ways to PREVENT an unwanted pregnancy other than abortion, don't you agree? Abstinence comes to mind first and formost, then birth control. What do you think?

Are THAT many people in Maine REALLY related to Sarah Palin??? Me thinks that she may have a couple of stalkers.

Socialism is here, and has been since the institution of Social Security. As a matter of fact, that was one of the few times in history, that the US Congress had no filibuster. We now have Social Security, Medicare, Medicare, Progressive Income Taxes, Food Stamps, Housing Allowances, Earned Income Credit, and many, many more. Now, if Obama gets elected, and with his voting record in the Senate, as the most Liberal, we will see MASSIVE tax hikes, and an even larger Socialistic agena. He has been very clear about this. When you look at government, it has been moving toward the left since FDR. Obama will give it such a push, that making money will be a punishment. I might add, it already is. People making $100,000+ are punished in many ways, such as their children not being eligible for Federal Student Loans. I rather liked Huckabee's plan, of a flat tax. This ends loopholes. People are extremely worried about their businesses. I know of several weathy people in Maine, who are looking to leave the country. This will happen with some of the oil companies too. They will not stick around for the highest taxes on earth.

Socialism is here. How much more we want is dependent on who becomes President.

McCain/Palin are interested in reducing government, taxes, corruption.

ConnieD if you are making $100000 a year why do your kids need federal student loans? Not everyone makes that kind of money! Shouldn't low income kids have the same opportunities as middle and upper income kids, that way more kids can get a good college eduaction and then make more money in the long run? My parents were business owners and made a good living and never sent my brother and I to college. My parents never had a college education either and lived a full life by working hard and earning every dime they worked for. I like the idea of a flat tax too.....then the playing feild is even for everyone. It probably would be much simpler.

We need Republicans to get us out of this mess...especially in this state...communist as it is with Democrats

Change that's what we need, didn't ya just LOVE IT when McCain Finally put obama in his place and said I'm not George Bush and if you wanted to run against him you should have done that 4 years ago....That was an AWESOME comeback. Go McCain/Palin......

Sacurtis, I enjoy your comments for the most part even if i don't agree with all of them. I for one, that is why I come here. I know a lot of people are just looking to argue and work out there furstrations on other people while hiding behind a screen name. I sometimes ask myself why I believe the way I do (which I aknowledge is very conserative) and come here to read other points of view to compare to my own. Sometimes those reasonable points of view are few and far between, thank you for yours though.

Here are a few more of my views.

Aryers--- I concede that Obama is not in anyway a terrorist based on his involvement with ayers. But the excuse that Obama was six when ayers bombed is insane. He was a grown man when he was involved with Ayers. Also the compairison between Ayers and either G Liddy or Keating is insane. Neither Keating or Liddy blew up anything or more important took any life. Ayers is 100% un repented. I don't think Obama spent that much time with him or agreed with his actions; I think that Ayers was just on of the powers that be in that city as Obama tried to get his start. So Obama did what seemed helpful and not a big deal at the time and had some meetings with him. Just be honest lay it out there for us and let us decide. The way he skirts it is the only part that bothers me.

Thank you duckwa for the nice compliments. It is a good thing to be able to share our views even if at times we may disagree. Life is to short to argue about everything. Besides, no matter how we all vote God has a BIGGER plan!

Yes I feel the same way as duckwa...

I agree with you duckwa, if he's going to be shady on this one issue that what is he going to be like as President!!

To ConnieD and Carol1 :

You are right on! My wife attended the rally and had the same reaction- and she is a lifelong Democrat. She just loved it, and was moved by the clear messages, the positive energy from the crowd, the healthy patriotism, and the fiery speechifying of Sarah Palin. She also said it was a breath of fresh air to see lots of young people there who were excited, yet respectful. Quite a contrast to the sneering angry types she met at the Democratic caucus. Both of us are Dems, but became so disgusted by The One, that we jumped over to the McCain/Palin ship. And what a good ship it turns out to be! We refuse to be instructed by the media or screamed into submission by The One's cult members.

We will vote McCain/Palin because this is still America. And we want to keep it that way.

pumaMAN, I reposted your comment from last night about the everyday citizen serving ( of the people). It is one the best points on here in a long while. Here it is again for those that missed it.

"Yes. And you are qualified too. The U.S. Constitution provides the criteria. It is not based on elite schooling or family connections, or a test, or prescribed experience. Understand, that is no accident. The founding fathers had plenty of ink. They would have written more rules if they needed to. They expressly did not. They designed a government to be "OF THE PEOPLE". Meaning... you. Or Sarah Palin. You ARE fully qualified. Don't doubt yourself. You are every bit as wise and exactly as "qualified" as Joe Biden. NONE of the candidates is your better. You are their equal. Be proud of that."

Grover Norquist, founder and head of Americans for Tax reform, said that the "socialists took over with Teddy Roosevelt". That's the first era I can think of where the government punished someone for making too much money by breaking up corporations like Standard Oil through the Sherman and Clayton anti-trust acts. The idea was that these huge corporations were limiting competition and strangling small businesses (sort of like Augusta today). It's sort of a catch-22 to think that the government punished large businesses that were doing exceptionally well in a capitalist market that had less restrictions than it does today in order to encourage the growth of entrepeneurship. Was it right for the government to intervene, especially when you keep in mind that 10 years after the breakup of Standard Oil in 1911, the country had an enormous economic boom that we still talk about?

Additionally, I don't understand how you can complain about government programs being socialistic in nature and then turn around and complain the children of people with high incomes aren't getting assistance from the government and that it constitutes some form of punishment. Please explain.

PUMAman, This really excites me to hear this, I was un-decided 1 week ago and now you can't stop me from voting for McCain/Palin, I was so disgusted by reading what some of the dems had to say, some of them were really jumping all over some of the republicans. Also to hear all the names that they were calling Senator John McCain were terrible along with what they are doing to Governor Sarah Palin, they ought to be ashamed of themselves. Welcome to our Team...Glad you came....Have a great day...

You have a good point, Baltimorean, and let me try to answer it. It really breaks down into class warfare.

$100,000 is not a lot of money these days. It is middle class. People I know who make in that range, often work 2-3, sometimes 4 jobs, and long, hard hours. They have debt. They can't afford to pay for their children's college most likely. Thus, their children apply, and are denied. So be it. These children will most likely work their way through college, like so many of us did years ago. Some children find excellent programs through the military, to help defray the costs. Parents making under $100,000, have opportunities abounding to help with the college costs. So much so, that welfare children are getting free rides. I just retired from school teaching, and have seen the suppose "poor" child, go off to college on a free scholarship from the state and or Fed govt. This causes incredible resentment. Like so many other social welfare programs. I won't get into the vast majority of the "poor" children not lasting more than a year, and treating it like a year of partying, at the taxpayers' expense, but it puts a wedge between hard-working people, and those who often do not work, or work part-time, or at jobs that require little or no preparation. In other words, those making middle class wages often have put much time, energy, and money into building businesses or college training.

Working people are really starting to resent the welfare mentality in this state, and country: think Subprime mortgages!!!!! I think public funding of colleges needs to stop. It is too expensive anyway. Public education from kindergarten to high school is plenty. The social welfare programs feed on each other. The more there are, the need for more. It is a growing dependency, and causing tremendous resentment.

The poor in this country live on a parallel to middle class in most other countries. And this is not enough. The welfare families in my school district started taking their "Disneyland vacations" about 5 yrs ago, while most of the teachers I know, were too busy working, and often felt their monies should go to more responsible financies, like college educations, mortgages, etc. Resentment??? I think so. Not only vacations, but the "poor" have cell phones for all the family members, cars - sometimes new, all the latest in electronic technology games, etc. WHY? They received the following:

Federal Earned Income Tax, HUD and or similar such housing for about $300 per month, food stamps, free health care, free dental, low-cost phone bills, low cost electric services. This is only a sampling of what the poor in Maine have access to. Might I add, that in 25 yrs of teaching, I have never, ever seen a child hungry.

So, what this creates is class warfare. This is REDISTRBUTION of wealth, of which Obama makes no secret to hide. Is this why so many Marxists/Communists are supporting him?

A study of communist Russia gives good insight to a failed governmental policy. Start measuring your square footage. In Russia, that is one of the first moves they made; so many people per square feet of living space. After all, it is only fair.

I'd like to start by thanking Sarah Palin, for including our state of Maine during her campaign trail. Sarah just confirmed what I already have learned about her throughout this campaign. Sarah Palin is a standup respectable woman, who has the morals that our country so desperately needs to cling to. Sarah is a well rounded and well educated woman, who I will be proud to claim as our next Vice President of the United States of America! With having said that, no she is not the one running for Cammander and Chief of our country, as so many people like to point out. I would like to remind everyone that John McCain and Sarah Palin unite as one during presidency, and I am proud to support what they stand for.

As an honored onlooker at yesterdays rally held in Bangor Maine, I was encouraged by Sara's interest in each individual person. She does not look into the croud as a blurry whole, she resonates with you personally, with direct eye contact. To me this is just another indication that she cares about "us" the American people. This is just one reason for why I feel assured that they will work for us personally, and not for Government self interest. As Sarah and John McCain have so eloquently articulated, they will not work to take our own money from us, but to put more of it back into our own pocket. This by the way will ultimately work in our economy's favor! It is NOT the Government's right to decide how much of OUR money they are going to "spread" around. John McCain and Sarah Palin will allow us to keep what is rightfully ours, we do not want to become a Government run society!! So I'm choosing to fight for the right to make my own decisions and vote for the McCain and Palin ticket.

....... Oh by the way, have we heard "yet" what that fancy fine is going to be for the families and business owners, who can't afford Government mandated health insurance? I sure have not. I'm a little suspicious when Obama, who has been squeezed time and time again, will not produce a number for the American people. It makes me wonder what else he is not telling us.

MollySue, I'm glad to hear what you have to say, your exactly right about Sarah Palin she looks you in the eye and acts as if she's talking directly to you. She's a breathe of Fresh air. I was un-decided, but now you couldn't stop me from voting for the McCain/Palin ticket.

There's a lot of things that obama is hiding, i know a lot of people don't want to hear this BUT he still hasn't told us Americans about his relationship with Ayers, he's a shady man if you ask me!!!!

I hope eveyone really thinks twice before they Vote and Please don't Vote party vote to protect your family, The McCain/Palin ticket is the ticket that can protect you, Senator John McCain is a fighter and Governor Sarah Palin is Fighter put both of them together and they will shape up Washington, and you can count on senator McCain fighting for our country and protecting us from the terrorist he's proven it.

I hope you all have a great weekend, Take care and God Bless....

Dear sacurtis, i didnt say ALL democrats believe in abortion u yourself sit there and say abortion is a disgusting act of violence BUT you still stand behind the democratic party if he voted for it in his state who is to say he wont do it for all of america? And whoever gave me the chat about what the bill was really all about let me tell you whether he added to or voted for the bill he was still apart of it and i believe if he stands by it then that is what he stands for and that is a great example of the type of person he is. Either way you wont change your mind and youll justify your decision saying you dont believe in it yourself. The great thing about republicans and voting for Mccain is i havent seen 1 person who has had to defend him for something he has done or said, youll never be able to say that about obama and his supporters.

Oh my just because Sarah looked you directly in your eyes while she was addressing the crowd yesterday doesnt mean squat. DO you really feel that she is going to fight for your needs in this country? Why are there so many folks up here in Bangor that are incredibly disillusioned? Look past her pretty face, her ability to raise a beautiful familiy, and her soccer mom qualities and ask yourself what can she do for this country? Saying that she is not running for president is a huge huge problem. Let us not forget McCain is 72 years of age. Mike216 it seems like you changed your mind from Obama to McCain in a second once you could see how sweet and caring Sarah Palin was. I am sorry if that seems harsh but you may need to explain more. My thought is your first instinct is probably right. I hate the fact that folks think McCain will fight for the little people because he once fought for the entire country. He was tortured for this country and the people in it. It is so far from the truth McCain only did what he had to do at that time like so many young men did. People call me un-american for saying things like that, but when looking at a candidate for president my question is "what can you do for me now?" Not what did you do when you were in your 20s that helped you become the maverick you are today. I cant take it anymore.

"you can count on senator McCain fighting for our country and protecting us from the terrorist he's proven it." Mike 216 are you calling Obama a terrorist? I cant take this anymore and do not understand why people cant open their minds and accept that this country has gone through a lot of changes in the last 50 years and is it any surprise that there is a full-blooded american with a name Barrack Obama.....who cares people get with the times...........

The McCain/Palin ticket will not protect us. Just because McCain and Palin both grin, wink, and stare you right in the eyes while they are talking to you doesnt mean anything.....It is an attempt to gain votes by becoming Mr and Mrs Joe Six Pack american......Im tired of the bullshit McCain and Palin are spewing on a daily basis....

Getting an abortion is not your decision for someone else. It is a personal choice!!! Unbelivable how can anyone pretend to make that sort of decision for someone else. By saying what a good number of you have said basically you are ripping the freedoms so many before us fought so hard to get right out of any female that is in a tough situation. So a girl is walking down a street and someone jumps out forces her into an alley and rapes her. It is not her fault. She gets pregnant because the scumbag that rapped her did not obviously wear a condom she should have that child??? So the child can grow up knowing that his/her father was a rapist. Are you serious? Is your thought that she shouldnt have been walking down that street by herself at night? Come on...

Oh no I know she should go to the hospital and get an emergency rape exam (which sarah palin thinks every woman that happens to should pay for) and have the child and bring yet another human being into this world that is mentally instable, confused, and downright angry towards everything that is going on in this world.....thats what she should do....

None you will like this probably but you should read it. Open up and just check it out. It is something that is circulating on the internet and it is unfortunately all true......its scary...

For those who still can't grasp the concept of white privilege, or who are looking for some easy-to-understand examples of it, perhaps this list will help.

White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.

White privilege is when you can call yourself a "#*&%@in' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll "kick their #*&%@in' ass," and talk about how you like to "shoot shit" for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.

White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested.

"

White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough for the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office--since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until the 1950s--while if you're black and believe in reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because the Constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school requires it), you're a dangerous and mushy liberal who isn't fit to safeguard American institutions.

White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wants your state to secede from the Union, and whose motto is "Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's being disrespectful.

White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they do--like, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child labor--and people think you're being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in college and the fact that she lives near Russia, you're somehow being mean, or even sexist.

White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look.

"

White privilege is being able to fire people who didn't support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.

White privilege is when you can take nearly twenty-four hours to get to a hospital after beginning to leak amniotic fluid, and still be viewed as a great mom whose commitment to her children is unquestionable, and whose "next door neighbor" qualities make her ready to be VP, while if you're a black candidate for president and you let your children be interviewed for a few seconds on TV, you're irresponsibly exploiting them.

White privilege is being able to give a 36-minute speech in which you talk about lipstick and make fun of your opponent, while laying out no substantive policy positions on any issue at all, and still manage to be considered a legitimate candidate, while a black person who gives an hour speech the week before, in which he lays out specific policy proposals on several issues, is still criticized for being too vague about what he would do if elected.

White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who say the conflict in the Middle East is God's punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you're just a good church-going Christian, but if you're black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you're an extremist who probably hates America.

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a "trick question," while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O'Reilly means you're dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and nuanced.

White privilege is being able to go to a prestigious prep school, then to Yale and Harvard Business School (George W. Bush), and still be seen as an "average guy," while being black, going to a prestigious prep school, then Occidental College, then Columbia, and then Harvard Law, makes you "uppity" and a snob who probably looks down on regular folks.

White privilege is being able to graduate near the bottom of your college class (McCain), or graduate with a C average from Yale (W.), and that's OK, and you're still cut out to be president, but if you're black and you graduate near the top of your class from Harvard Law, you can't be trusted to make good decisions in office.

White privilege is being able to dump your first wife after she's disfigured in a car crash so you can take up with a multi-millionaire beauty queen (who you then go on to call the c-word in public) and still be thought of as a man of strong family values, while if you're black and married for nearly 20 years to the same woman, your family is viewed as un-American and your gestures of affection for each other are called "terrorist fist bumps.

"

White privilege is when you can develop a pain-killer addiction, having obtained your drug of choice illegally like Cindy McCain, go on to beat that addiction, and everyone praises you for being so strong, while being a black guy who smoked pot a few times in college and never became an addict means people will wonder if perhaps you still get high, and even ask whether or not you may have sold drugs at some point.

White privilege is being able to sing a song about bombing Iran and still be viewed as a sober and rational statesman, with the maturity to be president, while being black and suggesting that the U.S. should speak with other nations, even when we have disagreements with them, makes you dangerously naive and immature.

White privilege is being able to say that you hate "gooks" and "will always hate them," and yet, you aren't a racist because, ya know, you were a POW, so you're entitled to your hatred, while being black and noting that black anger about racism is understandable, given the history of your country, makes you a dangerous bigot.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism and an absent father is apparently among the "lesser adversities" faced by other politicians, as Sarah Palin explained in her convention speech.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possibly allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters aren't sure about that whole "change" thing. Ya know, it's just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain.

White privilege is, in short, the problem.

mike216 - Sure you were undecided, sure you were......ha! I know you don't want to hear this, but YOU still don't want to accept that he covered the Ayers non-relationship on NATIONAL TV in Wednesday's debate. Whaddya want, room service?

To concerned15 - great points - had not seen this. thanks!

5,000 people huh, that is just about the number of Maine voters that will probably vote for McCain & Pa in! an you say losers?

Noblamgame, I guess being the backwards person I am I missed it when Obama explained it on national tv. I feel so foolish. Do you think you could explain it to me since I missed it. Giving that obama covered it so well it shouldn't be a problem for a smart guy like you to explain it to some of us slower people with out having to just call names and skip my question. Please don't say he was 6 at the time of the bombings, maybe I am misinformed but my understanding was that he was a grown man when the met in his living room.

Noblamgame, I guess being the backwards person I am I missed it when Obama explained it on national tv. I feel so foolish. Do you think you could explain it to me since I missed it. Giving that obama covered it so well it shouldn't be a problem for a smart guy like you to explain it to some of us slower people with out having to just call names and skip my question. Please don't say he was 6 at the time of the bombings, maybe I am misinformed but my understanding was that he was a grown man when the met in his living room.

Noblamgame, thaks for the help in advance.

MoeBolduc, while I aslo agree that Obama will win the election, I guess I also missed what you possibly could have done to help him do so. Your gloating like a person with some accomplishment, when your really just a hanger on. Trying to live in another mans glory by making fun of fellow americans that disagree with you. All while hiding behind a screen name. I bet you mom is proud. I can say loser and reading your post is a good example of one.

duckwa - I'm certain you can still find the entire debate on the net - if not, post your e-mail and I'll be glad to invite you over to view it on TIVO......btw, when did I call you names? Sorry if you feel slighted. Unintentional.

concerned15 you could not be more correct. It is a shame to me that any woman in this country would even want to associate herself with a party that would choose a woman VP nominee like her in order to "swing the vote". She is the absolute last female in this country I would choose to be like-EVER. No wonder woman are still not treated equally, how can you even repsect them when they can't respect themselves enough to not know better then to vote for a man who has called his wife the c work in public and blamed it on a bad day, or a woman who abuses her power, because she does not have the training to know better. GOD help this country if Sarah Palin EVER has to take over the Presidency.

Citizenof brewer I don't feel like I have to justify myself to you.....I was just stating my personal opinion about abortion. I will stand by Obama/Biden .I am not voting for them because of their stand on abortion but for lots of other reasons. For one being, that They have a fresh approach to change the direction of this country. Since GWB became president he has worried more about foreign policy instead of taken care of thepeople on the homefront. And no I do believe that the people of Iraq should of had the freedoms that we all should enjoy, but they need to start taking care of themselves and we need to take care of our country here. And now nobody listens to our president anymore. That is unfortunate.

As far as "abortion" goes, unfortunately something does have to be done about this issue! There are to many people who discard of innocent babies like they are discarding of a cigaratte. I agree with what McCain stated during the debate," medical " reasons to abort a baby would become anything. We know that doctors manipulate medical conditions all to often, just so the insurance companies will cover the expenses. Can you just imagine if there was a clause in the abortion law that states, abortion is illegal except in the case that it puts the mother's health in jeopardy. The mother's health would become anything including mental health. I guess if people would be willing to place Obama in the white house with his dictating politics, McCain's view on abortion should just be a breath of fresh air! A "personal" choice is what you are having for dinner tonight, it is NOT snuffing out a little innocent life! Adoption not abortion!

half of you people are stupid; the rest are smart people and for McCain/Palin:)

America, America God shed his grace on thee, and crown thy good with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea. Aren't we blessed! Where else in the world could we have this kind of freedom. Our crowning good is unity. Where there's no vision the people perish. Let's never forgot our vision. Democracy, freedom, liberty, and unity not for some, not for those who can afford it but to ALL. Whether it's my eternal salvation or my civil right my freedom came with a cost. I'll not forgot who shed His blood or the soilders who shed their blood for me...for us. And I will stand with the man or woman that would never forget that cost. I'll stand with those people who fought for those tenants of our democracy. We as a people to be more united than ever, remember, a house divided against itself can not stand.

Is there a "secret police" out there that goes into the backgrounds of anyone who speaks out at a town hall meeting, editorial, or any public forum? Seems like that is what happened to "Joe the plumber". Is that what the future holds if a certain someone is elected? Something to think about.

In all the negative comments, the one that was most striking - and summarizes the whole approach from the left - was from Concerned15: "what can you do for me now?" His candidate, Obama, answered that question - spread the wealth. That, too, is a quote. Karl Marx put it this way "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." Need a house? Let others who actually pay taxes pay for it with a bailout.

Most striking at that rally yesterday was the good nature, the courtesy and friendliness of those who stood in line for far more than an hour. The only negative of the whole morning was the screaming intrusion of the spittle-covered keyboard crowd which was mercifully brief. When you are reduced to name-calling at the top of your lungs, it indicates you have no reasoned ideas to discuss. Sarah Palin has caused such angst from the left because she IS an intelligent, accomplished woman with independent views which she expresses very well. She has the highest popularity rating of any governor despite bucking her party - and the oil companies. She does not knuckle under to the damning of the feminist agenda. She has no experience? She runs one of the largest states in the union. Obama has all of 143 working days in the Senate, most of which he has spent running for president.

If you don't vote for him, it's because you are a racist, according to Murtha (D-PA), and there will be hell to pay if he doesn't win (according to Democrat James Carville). Is that a reasoned platform? Or the biggest lie of all, he will "give" 95% of people "tax breaks." How many of you have bothered to check the facts on that? Over 40% of those "taxpayers" pay no taxes whatsoever. They will be getting a free check from the government. Wait, not free - paid by those of us who DO pay taxes.

There's that "spreading of the wealth" again. It may come as a surprise to Concerned15 and others of that ilk that socialism has a poor record everywhere it's been tried or exists - except, of course, for those in power. In Maine alone, one of, if not the biggest debt is incurred with the very generous pensions for state workers and politicians - along with lifetime free medical care. Or an $80 million dollar "free" health care plan that covers all of 11,000 people - do the math. And what is the "state" of Maine now? So deep in red ink it's taxing soda.

So, if you enjoy having your money taken from you (if you work) to be given to others your politicians choose, vote for Democrats. They know what's in it for them. If you work for a living and think you should keep the money you earn, vote Republican.

I would also like to point out that Obama's associations, which number in the double digits now, are all radical, left, militants. If there were one, or two questionable associations, we might not be so concerned about the coming wave of socialism, and have Dems decide for us, where our hard-earned money should go, but the associations keep surfacing. The list is ever-growing: Wright, Flager, AYERS, Dorn, Acorn, a communist mentor during the college years, Farrakan, Resko.

Be prepared for a mass exodus of businesses, and people with money.

You are right Duckman... PUMAman comment was great and on the money. OF THE PEOPLE....

Someone I know who wasn't planning on voting told me today she had decided to vote. She said at her work place she had to listen to a liberal radio talk show that was so undermining and just really nasty talk about Sarah Palin and McCain. She said most of it had nothing to do with the issues. It made her so angry that she will be voting for the first time. And guess she is voting for?

seahorse: you know nothing about the state pensions in the first place the maine state pension is No taken from taxes it takes what the empolyees have paid in and invested it..in another words it's like a big 401k....the health care stops at 65 and they can't SS because they have the pension..my husband paid into the maine state retirement system for 31 year ....and now get the retiement the he invested in...and it has nothing to do with you the tax pater

and we already have redistorbution of the WEALTH it's called EARNED INCOME CREDIT!!!!!

The fact that the Obama Campaign and their proxy news organization NBC felt the need to investigate Joe the plumber and try and dig up dirt with which to smear the man smacks of the Cllinton tactic of attacking their opponents by innuendo and questioning their integrity and veracity. Paula Jones was slandered and called Trailer Park Trash because she objected to being forcibly raped by Clinton in a Arkansas hotel room. Now we have a man who was not part of John McCain's campaign ask a question of Obama about his tax proposals and exposed them for the sham they are and the man is investigated by NBC and slandered on thier news program. So Joe is not a licensed plumber. So what? The man he works for does. So he is a plumber's helper who is thinking of buying the business from his boss, is that a crime? So he owes some back taxes, how does that change his original question to Obama that he will tax anyone who is looking to become successful in this country. If Obama gets elected we will all be behind in our taxes because he plans on spending an additional 800 Billion to One Trillion more in taxpayer money. The fact that the major news media outlets are so much in the tank for Obama that they send people out to investigate anyone who disagrees with him is downright scary. Is this what we can expect in an Obama Administration, people will be investigated and intimidated for disagreeing with the messiah? We have heard alot about Bill Ayers and his Marxist Lenninist leanings and Pastor Wright but it is Obama's lies that trouble me the most. He could not sit in church for twenty years and not know the Anti-American sentiments his Pastor held, that is just not believable at all. And are we to believe that it is just coincidence that he and Bill Ayers and Louis Farrahkan all live within a block of each other. I don't think so! All his disavowals of both Ayers and his Pastor have come only after it became an issue that might prove troubling to his campaign. We are in a fight for this country's survival as we have known it for the last two hundred years and the country I grew up in. I am a Vietnam Veteran who unlike Michelle Obama am very proud of this country and for the generosity and democratic principles that have sustained us up to now. We have nothing to apologize to the world for because we have done more, given more, shed more blood in order to make other men free than any other country in history. I have two sons and I don't want them growing up in some Obama, Ayers idea of a Socialist Utopia where the lazy are rewarded and hard work and success is penalized. When all your close associations are with people of questionable allegiance and hold very radical ideas even for the most liberal of the Democatic Party, then people need to ask themselves if there isn't more they should know before voting for Obama. We all want some form of change, we were all traumatized by 9/11 and now the economic crisis and the Iraq war, but I beg that all Americans weigh the consequences of voting for a man with a very questionable background and associations.

swann he was a plant he was put out there to set Obama up....if the shoe where on the other foot the GOP would be scearming bloodly murder

Swann, I totally agree with you. Searoses, that is ridiculous....I wish some media would spend as much time on Ayers or any of Obama questionable "friends" as they do on poor Joe.

you can think what you like but time will tell who's right ....go check out honey!!!!

Set him up for what searoses? Joe asked a simple question. And he got an answer from Obama. A non rehearsed answer. I can see why Obama doesn't like the town hall type meetings. He doesn't do so well. Sometimes the questions are not in front of him with the answers. It requires alittle more honesty. Obama's answer was very clear and concise he knew what he was saying.

>seahorses wrote:

>Most striking at that rally yesterday was the good nature, the courtesy and friendliness of those who stood in line for far more than an hour.

My wife said the same- she was just blown away by the courtesy and good nature. It made the wait almost pleasant compared to the nearly unbearable Democratic caucus she attended which was very much "Obama is your messiah. Or else." Thuggery.

Anyway, we are much encouraged to read the strong voices here. Like them, we take the media's "orders", rip them in half, and let them flutter to the ground. "Watch out now, America coming through!"

ConnieD:

Shift FURTHER to the left? Are you f-ing daft?

Congress has been in democratic hands for about a year and a half now?

How about the 7 years before that with a republican congress and bush at the helm?

Read on www.factcheck.org

ConnieD:

And our state is screwed from 30 years of extremism.

Palin is a *!&^#%ing extremist wacko

Connie D

My in-laws are both retired military.

Commanding officers in the Gaurd, actually.

My mother-in-law retired last year as a Master Sergeant. She served two tours in Iraq.

My Father-in-law retired this year as a Command Sergeant Major. He also served two tours in Iraq.

They both hate this war and want the damn war-mongers out of office. McCain has the same views on the war as Bush. These @*&#^!ers didnt watch a lifelong friend get shot down in a helicopter. These @*&#^!ers are putting our families through hell for nothing.

Keep in mind that "the terrorist" that people try to justify the war by naming are and always were in AFGANISTAN. NOT IRAQ.

The reason that we didn't get Bin Laden is because we went for Iraq first and were spread too thin.

Pay attention and read. Please. Educate yourself. Dont take anything anyone tells you as simple fact just because they seam nice and make you feel all warm inside. Check the facts. Use several sources. Hell, www.factcheck.org has a lot of stuff covered. Most things have 3 or 4 separate sources sited.

mrmaine:

What the #*&%@ does gods defn of marraige have to do with a legal union?

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

Did you vote for bush?

Bush put more people to death during his career as governor of texas than anyone in recent history. How christion is that?

Mike216:

This scares me more than Obama "socializing" with ayers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/politics/04party.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

The Palins have demonstrated that they would declare war on the United States to see that Alaska can succeed.

And you are worried that Obama worked, to the benefit of kids, with a crazy hippie extremist? Ayers blew stuff up, not Obama.

OH NO, Obama still talked to the guy after he was done working with him! *gasp*

When was the last time Ayers conspired against the States? When did conversing with someone make you guilty of crimes that THEY committed in the 60's?

duckwa

Do you know why he voted against that bill?

It had no provisions to protect the mother. None.

mike216 wrote:

"I agree Duckwa that there is little difference between McCain and Obama as far as the economy goes, that's why i bring up Senator McCain and his proven abilities to stand up for our Country....."

I bring up the 10 billion dollars a month being WASTED in Iraq. And that McCain has stated that if it takes 100 years to win, we will be there 100 years.

I also bring up the fact that Obama would like to, in the immediate future, take SOME of that money and spend it here instead. And in the not to distant future have the lazt *!&^#%ing Iraqi Govt take care of themselves and stop acting like the brittish empire and have ALL of the $10 billion/ month to spend here. On things that we need. To help America.

concerned15

I agree.

Jefferson was agnostic at best. Nearly atheist.

My issue with abortion is that if I kill a pregnant lady and her unborn baby dies, It's a double murder.

But if a doctor kills an unborn baby at a patients request, its all good.

Double Standards.

We need a little more consistancy. Is it a person or not. You cant have both

"If you are against gay marriage...and you say it is because it is in the bible....where???? what page??? what book??? what verse????"

It's not there. But it does say divorce is evil evil evil. Talks about how bad devorce is WAY more than putting your penis in another guy. Heck, I'd say the bible would rather have you screw sheep than get devorced, since it only mentions sodomy like twice.

So shouldn't devorce be illegal as long as gay marriage is?

And as long as we are governing with the bible, I need some advice from you regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. (directed at the crazy that is voting based entirely on religion, and similar sorts of folk... not the person that I quoted)

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9).

The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7

In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24).

The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.

Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27.

How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

This question is not original with me, but worthy of consideration: "Could [our presidential candidates] pass a security clearance for Secret Service"?

I would like to know the answer to that question because it is amazing that a person may become President [or Vice President] of the US and privy to classified information and security briefings but not be able to pass a high level security clearance equivalent to that of the individuals charged with their personal safety. Could that ever happen?

maineformccain wrote:

"Change that's what we need, didn't ya just LOVE IT when McCain Finally put obama in his place and said I'm not George Bush and if you wanted to run against him you should have done that 4 years ago....That was an AWESOME comeback. Go McCain/Palin....."

How about when McCain said, in his own words, that he voted lockstep with bush OVER 90% of the time? Or when the congressional reports on voting records corrected it as over 95%?

Different name, same dude.

seahorses wrote:

"In all the negative comments, the one that was most striking - and summarizes the whole approach from the left - was from Concerned15: "what can you do for me now?" His candidate, Obama, answered that question - spread the wealth. That, too, is a quote. Karl Marx put it this way "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." Need a house? Let others who actually pay taxes pay for it with a bailout."

First, What marx meant was that as long as you put in to the best of your ability, your needs will be met...

A 46 year old woman with down syndrom might work 20 hours a week bussing tables. This could be working to the best of her ability, but wont pay for food, housing, etc. Marx's statement means that this woman should be provided for under these conditions

Some deadbeat dad choses to drink beer and not work. He cant afford a house. Under the marx syste, hed be told to eat shit until he can start pulling some weight.

Pull your head from your ass and clean the shit from your eyes. Then read a book.

searoses wrote:

"seahorse: you know nothing about the state pensions in the first place the maine state pension is No taken from taxes it takes what the empolyees have paid in and invested it..in another words it's like a big 401k....the health care stops at 65 and they can't SS because they have the pension..my husband paid into the maine state retirement system for 31 year ....and now get the retiement the he invested in...and it has nothing to do with you the tax pater"

Wrong

The taxpayer pay in double what the state employee does. Not to mention that all state employee pay is tax money

"She has no experience? She runs one of the largest states in the union."

Land mass accounts for nothing. The population of Alaska could be added to NYC and the subway wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.

You should be ashamed of yourself, that you would distort the Bible in such an ugly fashion! It is clear that you don't have a clue about the bible. What makes you think that it is up to you to do anything for instance: " should you kill yourself" Unfortunately for you, your not the Judge God is and I worry for your soul! Clearly you are very ignorant and I hope that God will have mercy on your soul! ...... You asked about your uncle, if you know anything about the Bible which is pretty evident! There is NO mercy for one who Blasphemes.

I attended the rally in Bangor and it was one of the most wonderful events I have ever been to. Sarah Palin is an amazing woman, and i feel so blessed to have been able to see her. It was so refreshing to be able to say "one Nation under GOD" and not have to worry about offending someone. It is wonderful to have a leader who is PROUD to sing a song like "God Bless the U.S.A." America is or was a great nation, but we've allowed leaders to get elected who want to take God out of our country. Governor Sarah Palin and Senator John McCain are good, God-fearing people who have proved that they love this country and are willing to sacrifice it all for this nation. What has Barrack Obama done for America? Does he really want to see us win in Iraq? I agree with Governor Palin, why won't the democrats say they want us to win? John McCain is the ONLY candidate who wants to take this country back to they way it was. God bless Senator McCain and Governor Palin and God Bless America!

Wow I say "one nation under God" and don't care if I offended anyone or not, I call it freedom. Perhaps I should say it in front of Palin and see if I am somehow inspired to be more patriotic or care about my country etc just because I said in front of some woman who can see Russia from her doorstep.

The fact is this, Barak Obama will CUT taxes MORE than John McCain for 95.7% of Bangor residents. Look at this analysis: http://tinyurl.com/6juzeu

Oh and does anyone know how McCain has voted on Heating Oil assistance? He voted against it five time in the past three years. Palin might understand steel toe boots and carharts, but she and her running mate don't understand what's best for the citizens of Bangor.

Perfect analysis of why we don't want Obama, because all of this "assistance" . It is free handouts that will be stolen right out of the pockets of hard working people! Anyone who wants freebies and wants to unfairly live off from hard working people, will be running to the polls to vote for Obama. I can only hope that there is more hard working people out there, then victims!

I for one am against unjustly "spreading" the wealth from hard working people, but what I am for is "spreading" the word to the just! Lets make sure that we are WELL informed when we go to the polls.

How is it right to "spread the wealth" as Senator Obama put it? Does Joe the plumber get his money by not working? He works for his money just like any good American should. Why should he or anyone pay for someone who doesn't want to work? People who vote for Obama are the same ones who thought it ok to stamp all over and burn our flag. They are selfish and care only about what happens to their wallet. Money is important, but I'd rather vote for someone who is honest. How come we know everything about John McCain and Sarah Palin and NOTHING about Obama's past?

Insane Preacher I think you are pretty awesome. Finally someone on here with a clue. This is my favorite line ! Pull your head from your ass and clean the shit from your eyes. Then read a book.

Molly Sue its not very christian like for you to tell people they are ignorant and the other wonderful things you said. I think our "friend" in the sky would not be very happy with you. Maybe you are the one we should be worrying for....

People who blasphme the Bible are ignorant. It's not calling someone a "mean" name it is simply the sorry state of their soul. People are ignorant when they say things they don't have a clue about. Just look around and see the sorry state this country is in. Do you think God is pleased with abortion? I doubt it! And yet Obama supporters want to vote in a man who thinks its just fine. God is certainly not pleased with anyone who votes for Barrack Obama. Wake up America because it's going to be too late very soon and you'll wish you had. Wake up!!!

How do you know what God is pleased with? Do you know him? How can you pretend to think you know what God thinks? feels? or knows? about the election. If God is really there Im pretty sure he or she would be happy that a human being can make their own decision about their own body. If I created a child in my body Im pretty sure its up to me what I do with the 1/2 to 1inch long fetus if I were to CHOOSE for myself to get an abortion. Open your minds people. You are the reason you make decisions. Gloryfysgal when you say "God is certainly not pleased with anyone who votes for Barrack Obama" it sounds like you and God had a cup of tea and you heard it directly from him. How can you know this? Or do you just think that God would be unhappy with anyone who voted for Barrack Obama because of his skin color, his background, his family???

I don't care about Obama's skin color. I would be proud to vote for any person regardless of skin color if i thought he could help this country. Do i care about his background? Yes i most certainly do. Why? Because he did drugs because he won't show us his birth certificate. We know nothing about this man who won't even salute the American flag. As far as sitting down and having tea with God, no I never have. But i am a Christian and I know Him as my personal Saviour. I do talk to Him everyday, just as if he were right there. I also read the Bible every day. I would never in a million years claim to know what God really thinks. And no it is not a woman's right to choose if she wants to murder her baby. If you don't want a baby don't put yourself in the position to have a baby. It's as simple as that. Why is it ok to murder little babies but our troops over seas are called baby killers and it's wrong? Yup makes a lot of sense to me.

Actually " concerned 15" As a matter of fact I do know God, I'm sorry that you don't understand that. You ask how we know what God wants... well read the Bible, that's how we know what God wants. Oh by the way, if you knew God you would understand that he created the baby that is in the womb, not you. It is all part of the creation process. For you to insinuate that I was unkind in any way to "insane preacher" you sadly mistaken that for a mere fact. For you to refer to " insane preacher " as being "awesome" it says a lot about you, and if God is truley your "friend in the sky" it's just another example of his Grace and Mercy!!!

Just to reiterate what Glorfysgal had to say, Obama is being completely underhanded in this race and dishonnest! For instance, it was wrong for him to handle the funding of his campign this way. He also has been very dishonest about his afflliation with Acorn (from Acorn's own mouth) by the way. As bad as people may hate to admit it, he has been less then honest about his ties with Ayers. That's just to name a few, and if you deny it, you are either really uninformed, in complete denial or you live under a rock!! The skeletons in his closet, will completely affect us if he gets in office. This tells a lot about his charactor and that matters a whole lot, if he is the leader of our country!!!

People like to point out that Sarah Palin is to inexperienced to run our country if needed. These same people fail to see ,that if Obama got in as our actaual " president " he has less experience then Sarah Palin! Atleast if were going to argue a point, let it be a good argument! McCain by the way, who is the one running for actual "president ", has more experience then them all! So there you go people who are worried about experience, lets make it easy and vote McCain!

Is Obama un-american? Is Obama not american? Is that what you fellow commentors are saying? He wont salute the American flag? I have seen him several times on national TV saluting the American Flag before or after. He may not salute it like our good friend McCain does, but he certainly has his hand over his heart while the song or what ever else is going on at the time. You did say that "God is certainly not please with anyone who votes for Barrack Obama." That is a pretty definate assumption...I think its fine that you talk to God everyday. That is not the problem you can lead your life in a way in which you think God would appreciate or favor. But how can you ever know its true. Also, saying that if you do not want a baby dont put yourself in that position to have a baby is just absolutely insane. Let me guess you are in favor of teaching abstinence in schools. Did you know abstinence only programs in schools has shown to be highly ineffective. Lets just look at the children of Sarah Palin. Also, we are human beings and accidents happen.......I guess neither side of this debate will ever understand the otherside....

To Mollysue's response....you read the bible....do you follow it to a T? A book that was written several several hundreds of years ago.....you can let the bible guide you and teach you good nice morals......but....uhh i just can understand how you can say you know what god want's because you read the bible. So what about all the several serveral bible groups that are devoted to coming up with interpreatations of the verses....

and i am no where near a creationist so saying to me that God created the baby in the womb....I would say well you know if God really is truly there...he created the baby in the womb yes but MY WOMB.....

What I said about God being our friend in the sky.....it was a joke. I certainly dont believe god even exists....he is no where close to being my friend in the sky.....

Also mollysue, Sarah palin is less than a heartbeat away if McCain gets elected. lets make it easy and vote mcCain.....Sorry not happening.....I have already changed 10 individual free thinking mind's.....Im going to make it 10 more tomorrow and the day after and the day after until election day

also ooohh get this I am getting signatures on election day to leaglize gay marriage.....damn me to hell you know you want to ....

On 10/18/08 at 01:37 AM, InsanePreacher wrote:

"If you are against gay marriage...and you say it is because it is in the bible....where???? what page??? what book??? what verse????"

It's not there. But it does say divorce is evil evil evil. Talks about how bad devorce is WAY more than putting your penis in another guy. Heck, I'd say the bible would rather have you screw sheep than get devorced, since it only mentions sodomy like twice.

So shouldn't devorce be illegal as long as gay marriage is?

And as long as we are governing with the bible, I need some advice from you regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. (directed at the crazy that is voting based entirely on religion, and similar sorts of folk... not the person that I quoted)

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9).

The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7

In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24).

The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.

Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27.

How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

You really should not use "insane preacher's" depiction of the Bible, and if you don't even beleive in God, then there is really no sense in continuing in conversations that you do not understand. I will say this, I have no fears of you soliciting Obama voters, because God's children are praying over this matter. The odds are all stacked against McCain, so when he gets in, maybe then you will believe in a hire power... But of course when someone doesn't want to see or beleive in something, they normally never do.

I suppose you think that murder is affective, seeings you point out abstinence is not. So lets not teach to save yourself and teach abortion (murder), wow, a woman of wisdom right there!

Concerned 15, that was great. By the way, the answer to d) is because most Canadians are white. I think it's okay to use the French-speaking ones though.

I am truly dumbfounded at the abuse of God's Word. America was based on God's principles. Men and women died to keep it that way. Let's take God off our money out of the schools legalize gay marriage and abortion and see what happens. Oh wait, we already have.

Molly Sue WHAT

I suppose you think that murder is affective, seeings you point out abstinence is not. So lets not teach to save yourself and teach abortion (murder), wow, a woman of wisdom right there!

I dont even understand this...why would you ever presume to think I would be okay with murder.....also how do you know the "insane preachers" depiction of the bible isnt the right one? How do you know the depiction of the bible that you use isnt the wrong one? How do you know there is a god for you (mollysue) not me....thats right because you do and no one else.....meaning christianity is completely up to that person who believes......so its completely SUBJECTIVE.....just like its my right as a human being to share my subjective viewpoint with the world that there is no god. But I were to think there was a god I would not pretend to know what he thinks, or knows, or says I should be doing....

anne_of_mdi thanks for the friendly comment....im happy there are some folks on here that see it

glorfysgal I am pretty sure that America was not based on God's principles lets just looks at these quotes I have pasted in here from many of America's founders for you....

John Adams

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - Dec. 27, 1816

Susan B. Anthony

[1820-1906] American feminist leader and suffragist.

"The religious persecution of the ages has been done under what was claimed to be the command of God." Rufus K. Noyes, Views of Religion, quoted from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."

"What you should say to outsiders is that a Christian has neither more nor less rights in our Association than an atheist. When our platform becomes too narrow for people of all creeds and of no creeds, I myself shall not stand upon it."

Benjamin Franklin

[1706-1790] American public official, writer, scientist, and printer who played a major part in the American Revolution.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

"He (the Rev. Mr. Whitefield) used, indeed, sometimes to pray for my conversion, but never had the satisfaction of believing that his prayers were heard." Franklin's Autobiography

"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the want of it."

That is just from Susan B. Anthony, John Adams, and James Madison....and there is plenty more...

saying that ever soldier goes to war because they are fighting for the principle's of God that America was founded on is compltely not true. Some do...but lots go because they beleive in America and want to fight for America. Or their Dad, grandfather, greatgrandfather, great great grandfather were in the military .... But it is because they are American not God's disciple to fight the good war....

Also Im pretty sure it unfortunately still says IN GOD WE TRUST on all our money....man oh man.....

oh remember when women could not vote? or when it was okay to have 6 black men working in your yard as slaves. or when gay men and women were call fags and dykes....and told that they were going to rot in hell for what they do....oh wait that still happens through the entire bible belt of america.... we will see I also unfortunately dont think I will see a day in my life time where gay marriage is widely accepted....or abortion.....

it is not just gay men and women that want these things....I am a white women approaching 30 about to get married to a man....so its a ideal that many young people in America are trying to strive for......

open up your minds.....

what affect does it have on YOUR LIFE no one elses if I abort a 1 inch long fetus out of MY WOMB?????

What affect does it have on YOUR LIFE if two men want to get married ?????

You must worry about yourself and no one else....in the end who do you have yourself, jesus (if that is your cup of tea) and thats it........when your on your death bed is it going to matter that jim and joe down the street got married nope......

Let me clearify myself as I didn't realize that it wasn't clear. As it was pointed out from concerned15 at 12:32 that clearly your pro abortion (murder). At 2:21 you stated that abstinence alone taught in the schools is inefective, so I guess that's where I got the idea that your okay with murder, because that is exactly what abortion is. You say a 1 inch fetus, well that is a baby with a soul. Even if that was what we were talking about: a 1 inch "baby" that's not what Obama is talking about, when he says if it puts the mom's life in jeopardy, abort it. That is not contained to a 1 inch "baby". I agree with Mike 216 when he says: if you kill a pregnant woman and she's carrying a baby, that you would be facing charges of killing 2 people.

As I said before, how silly of me to talk about the Bible and God with someone who has such little understanding. I have enough insight to know better then to engage in that kind of conversation.

You know that's the problem in America today. Nobody cares what someone else does. The reason I care about what jim and joe do is because i believe they are going against the Bible. Furthermore if Jesus Christ is the "only" person i have on my deathbed then I'll die content. Yes atheists have as much right to this country as anyone else. Do I believe their beliefs are correct? No i don't. If God isn't such an integral part of our country's history why is His name stamped on our money? Why is he the first person we run to in a crisis? Why do people take his name in vain? Why do we get sworn in on the Bible? We swear on the Bible in court. Why? Because people are afraid to lie on a stack of Bibles. And with good reason. You can deny God til the day you die but that doesn't change anything. We are all going to face his judgment somday.

When you read a history book, are you pretending to know about history? No because it is facts based on the people who wrote it, in having faith that it is acurate. Same as the Bible concerned 15, I'm not pretending anything when I say that I know what God wants. It is layed out in front of me in black, white and red. Guidelines all through the Bible based on disciples and God himself, laying out right and wrong. I believe every bit of it as you would beleive in our history books, so " pretending" has no merit in this!

Palin say's that the Vice President is in charge of the Senate:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/21/palin-vp-senate/#31016

Palin's children traveled on state funds:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27310999/

Left Wasilla 23.6 million in debt:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_about_that_anne_kilkenny_e-mail.html

She'd be a dandy choice.

Texter these are all the items that are now coming out because the McCain campaign is giving her more freedom in interviews. Thanks for adding in these links. She doesnt have a clue half the time. Saying that the VP is in charge of the Senate???? Oh man, the VP "shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be evenly divided" (Article I, section 3). Since the 1870s, however, no vice president has cast as many as 10 tie-breaking votes." - Directly from www.senate.gov

Here is a question....why cant Sarah Palin get her facts straight?

Her charging Alaska for several travel, accomodations, and meals into the 20,000's for a small family is outrageous. Of course this happens a bit with elected officials, but not to the level Sarah Palin has abused this priveledge.

She left a town in Alaska after she was mayor 23.6 million dollars in debt. What will happen when she has rule over a whole country. Elect McCain and palin and it will be another great way to get us deeper in the hole....

Mollysue and gloryysgal you should check out bill maher's new movie religulous. Even if you dont like him or what you think the movie is about you should definately go check it out. I watch movies all the time that I dont agree with or believe are true just check it out you may find it very eye opening.

Glorysgal you may think that you need to care about what jim and joe are doing because it goes against the bible. But what affect does that have on YOU. I am sure you parents taught you good lessons; to be a good person, treat others with kindness, treat everyone equally. But if you believe that the bible is the only thing in anyones life driving them then I guess this little debate is pointless. You may just have Jesus on your deathbed and I think that is fine but you also have yourself you and you alone. So are you telling me that if you have Jesus next to you then the state of your being doesnt even matter. So if a serial rapist is on his deathbed but has Jesus with him he will be okay? Will he go to heaven because he has accepted the Lord? I am sorry for my naivity in my questions but you are the first person that has been willing to say what they really feel about Christ. Maybe you have (like I feel) so much freedom on here because we have aliases and no one has to know who you really are.

Also some people are afraid to lie on a stack of bibles. But you see there are a lot of people out their like myself that tell the truth because we are good people. Because our parents and our grandparents and so on taught us to be good people.

George Carlin said it best. Religion has people believing that theres an invisible man... living in the sky... and he has ten things that he doesnt want you to do, and if you do any of these things... he has a special place, full of fire and brimstone and smoke and torture and pain and anguish where he will send you to live for all eternity where you will choke and writhe and suffer and burn and scream and cry .... but he loves you... and he needs money

well thats enough....I will just await the judgement that glorysgal thinks im going to have face someday.....

goodnight and good luck

I know that the question was not directed to me, but I would like to respond to the question about the serial rapist. If he is infact a cerial rapist then he doesn't have God in the first place, but if he was a cerial rapist and earnestly asked Jesus to forgive him, then yes he is okay on his deathbed with Jesus. As I believe in the Bible, Jesus was crucified on the cross so we could have the gift of forgivness. That is the beautiful thing about having the hope of Jesus Christ!

I myself would consider watching this movie, but I would love to think that you would give the Bible and Jesus a chance as well.... something that you do not believe in.

MollySue I have given the bible and Jesus a chance for almost 28 years. i just cant do it any longer. I was born into a family who went to church every sunday, I was baptize, went to confirmation classes, and everything involved in being a christian. I just cant buy into the fairytale stories any longer. There is just too much real life proof to show that there is no God. I started to realize that I am the way I am because my parents taught be some very important values...be nice to others, always say thank you, treat everyone equally, dont judge because you dont know what its like to walk in the other persons shoes, etc. etc. I could go on but Im sure you get my point.

I'm sorry to hear that. This fairytale will be a reality someday, and I hope you realize that before it is to late! I am not being nasty, I am being sincere. I'm sorry that you haven't experienced the real thing spiritually, that would leave you having no doubt in the fairytale, that is infact a reality. Regardless God does love you and he truley cares about you, just as I do.

Concerned15 i am sorry you gave up on Jesus. I'm not saying that it's always easy for me to trust he's really out there because it isn't. However i've thought about it a lot and i've come to the conclusion it would be much harder for me NOT to believe in God. This world didn't just come into being. We aren't just here, there was no big bang, and we didn't evolve from monkeys. Isn't it much harder to believe in evolution than it is God? God does test us we aren't promised a rose garden. I wouldn't want one. It's only through these trials we become stronger individuals. I believe in God and I believe in the Bible. That's all there is to it. Call me crazy call me stupid, it doesn't really matter. You won't be the first you won't be the last. I hope one day you'll give Jesus another chance.

There is just too much scientific evidence to prove that God does not exsist. I cant believe what one person has been passing along through the years over something someone has scientifically proven. If you are open to watching movies about the other side basically what I have been talking about you should check out "the God who wasn't there" even if you think it is total crap just check it out for a moment. Glorfysgal I am not calling you crazy or stupid just trying to fully understand why you believe what you believe. Also i am trying to understand why people (not sure if this is you or not) are voting for McCain/Palin for 2 reasons Palin is a women and they are both hellbent Xians. I am just trying to get the big picture. For me it was so much easier to say that there is not a God that what you said, tha it would be much harder for me NOT to believe in GOd" I found it difficult for several years to ignore the scientifc proof that there is no God.

My thoughts are that many people hold on to the bible or christ because they are afraid to die, cant get past the world just exsisting, and plainly the are afraid. SO those folks hold on to that because it helps, aids, and guides them through life and it makes it okay to know they are going to die because at least they will be with jesus. I am just not sure I buy it...

in other words ..

IS JESUS A MYTH?

What is a myth? A myth is a fanciful explanation of a given phenomenon. Observing the sun, the moon, and the stars overhead, the primitive man wished to account for them. This was natural. The mind craves for knowledge. The child asks questions because of an inborn desire to know. Man feels ill at ease with a sense of a mental vacuum, until his questions are answered. Before the days of science, a fanciful answer was all that could be given to man's questions about the physical world. The primitive man guessed where knowledge failed him -- what else could he do? A myth, then, is a guess, a story, a speculation, or a fanciful explanation of a phenomenon, in the absence of accurate information.

or ...

THE PROBLEM STATED

Let me now give an idea of the method I propose to follow in the study of this subject. Let us suppose that a student living in the year 3000 desired to make sure that such a man as Abraham Lincoln really lived and did the things attributed to him. How would he go about it?

A man must have a birthplace and a birthday. All the records agree as to where and when Lincoln was born. This is not enough to prove his historicity but it is an important link in the chain.

Neither the place nor the time of Jesus' birth is known. There has never been any unanimity about this matter. There has been considerable confusion and contradiction about it. It cannot be proved that the twenty-fifth of December is his birthday. A number of other dates were observed by the Christian church at various times as the birthday of Jesus. The Gospels give no date, and appear to be quite uncertain - really ignorant about it. When it is remembered that the Gospels purport to have been written by Jesus' intimate companions, and during the lifetime of his brothers and mother, their silence on this matter becomes significant. The selection of the twenty-fifth of December as his birthday is not only an arbitrary one, but that date, having been from time immemorial dedicated to the Sun, the inference is that the Son of God and the Sun of heaven enjoying the same birthday, were at one time identical beings. The fact that Jesus' death was accompanied with the darkening of the Sun, and that the date of his resurrection is also associated with the position of the Sun at the time of the vernal equinox, is a further intimation that we have in the story of the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus, an ancient and nearly universal Sun-myth, instead of verifiable historical events. The story of Jesus for three days in the heart of the earth; of Jonah, three days in the belly of a fish; of Hercules, three days in the belly of a whale, and of Little Red Riding Hood, sleeping in the belly of a great black wolf, represent the attempt of primitive man to explain the phenomenon of Day and Night. The Sun is swallowed by a dragon, a wolf, or a whale, which plunges the world into darkness; but the dragon is killed, and the Sun rises triumphant to make another Day. This ancient Sun myth is the starting point of nearly an miraculous religions, from the days of Egypt to the twentieth century.

The story which Matthew relates about a remarkable star, which sailing in the air pointed out to some unnamed magicians the cradle or cave in which the wonder-child was born, helps further to identify Jesus with the Sun. What became of this "Performing" star, or of the magicians, and their costly gifts, the records do not say. It is more likely that it was the astrological predilections of the gospel writer which led him to assign to his God-child a star in the heavens. The belief that the stars determine human destinies is a very ancient one. Such expressions in our language as "ill starred," "a lucky star," "disaster," "lunacy," and so on, indicate the hold which astrology once enjoyed upon the human mind. We still call a melancholy man, Saturnine; a cheerful man, Jovial; a quick-tempered man, Mercurial; Showing how closely our ancestors associated the movements of celestial bodies with human affairs. [Childhood of the World. -- Edward Clodd.] The prominence, therefore, of the sun and stars in the Gospel story tends to show that Jesus is an astrological rather than a historical character.

That the time of his birth, his death, and supposed resurrection is not verifiable is generally admitted.

This uncertainty robs the story of Jesus, to an extent at least, of the atmosphere of reality.

The twenty-fifth of December is celebrated as his birthday. Yet there is no evidence that he was born on that day. Although the Gospels are silent as to the date on which Jesus was born, there is circumstantial evidence in the accounts given of the event to show that the twenty-fifth of December could not have been his birthday. It snows in Palestine, though a warmer country, and we know that in December there are no shepherds tending their flocks in the night time in that country. Often at this time of the year the fields and hills are covered with snow. Hence, if the shepherds sleeping in the fields really saw the heavens open and heard the. angel-song, in all probability it was in some other month of the year, and not late in December. We know, also, that early in the history of Christianity the months of May and June enjoyed the honor of containing the day of Jesus' birth.

Of course, it is immaterial on which day Jesus was born, but why is it not known? Yet not only is the date of his birth a matter of conjecture, but also the year in which he was born. Matthew, one of the Evangelists, suggests that Jesus was born in King Herod's time, for it was this king who, hearing from the Magi that a King of the Jews was born, decided to destroy him; but Luke, another Evangelist, intimates that Jesus was born when Quirinus was ruler of Judea, which makes the date of Jesus' birth about fourteen years later than the date given by Matthew. Why this discrepancy in a historical document, to say nothing about inspiration? The theologian might say that this little difficulty was introduced purposely into the scriptures to establish its infallibility, but it is only religious books that are pronounced infallible on the strength of the contradictions they contain.

Again, Matthew says that to escape the evil designs of Herod, Mary and Joseph, with the infant Jesus, fled into Egypt, Luke says nothing about this hurried flight, nor of Herod's intention to kill the infant Messiah. On the contrary he tells us that after the forty days of purification were over Jesus was publicly presented at the temple, where Herod, if he really, as Matthew relates, wished to seize him, could have done so without difficulty. It is impossible to reconcile the flight to Egypt with the presentation in the temple, and this inconsistency is certainly insurmountable and makes it look as if the narrative had no value whatever as history.

When we come to the more important chapters about Jesus, we meet with greater difficulties. Have you ever noticed that the day on which Jesus is supposed to have died falls invariably on a Friday? What is the reason for this? It is evident that nobody knows, and nobody ever knew the date on which the Crucifixion took place, if it ever took place. It is so obscure and so mythical that an artificial day has been fixed by the Ecclesiastical councils. While it is always on a Friday that the Crucifixion is commemorated, the week in which the day occurs varies from year to year. "Good Friday" falls not before the spring equinox, but as soon after the spring equinox as the full moon allows, thus making the calculation to depend upon the position of the sun in the Zodiac and the phases of the moon. But that was precisely the way the day for the festival of the pagan goddess Oestera was determined. The Pagan Oestera has become the Christian Easter. Does not this fact, as well as those already touched upon, make the story of Jesus to read very much like the stories of the Pagan deities.

The early Christians, Origin, for instance, in his reply to the rationalist Celsus who questioned the reality of Jesus, instead of producing evidence of a historical nature, appealed to the mythology of the pagans to prove that the story of Jesus was no more incredible than those of the Greek and Roman gods. This is so important that we refer our readers to Origin's own words on the subject. "Before replying to Celsus, it is necessary to admit that in the matter of history, however true it might be," writes this Christian Father, "it is often very difficult and sometimes quite impossible to establish its truth by evidence which shall be considered sufficient" [Origin Contre Celsus. 1. 58 et Suiv.] This is a plain admission that, as early as the second and third centuries the claims put forth about Jesus did not admit of positive historical demonstration. But in the absence of evidence Origin offers the following metaphysical arguments against the skeptical Celsus: 1. Such stories as are told of Jesus are admitted to be true when told of pagan divinities, why can they not also be true when told of the Christian Messiah? 2. They must be true because they are the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies [Ibid.] In other words, the only proofs Origin can bring forth against the rationalistic criticism of Celsus is, that to deny Jesus would be equivalent to denying both the Pagan and Jewish mythologies. If Jesus is not real, says Origin, then Apollo was not real, and the Old Testament prophecies have not been fulfilled. If we are to have any mythology at all, he seems to argue, why object to adding to it the myths of Jesus? There could not be a more damaging admission than this from one of the most conspicuous defenders of Jesus' story against early criticism.

Justin Martyr, another early Father, offers the following argument against unbelievers in the Christian legend: "When we say also that the Word, which is the first birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that he, Jesus Christ, our teacher, was crucified, died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter." [ First Apology, Chapter xxi (Anti-Niacin Library.] Which is another way of saying that the Christian myths is very similar to the pagan, and should therefore be equally true. Pressing his argument further, this interesting Father discovers many resemblances between what he himself is preaching and the pagans have always believed: "For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribe to Jupiter. Mercury, the interpreting word (he spells this word with small w, while in the above quotation he uses w to denote the Christian incarnation) and teacher of all; Aesculapius ... to heaven; one Hercules ... and Perseus; ... and Bellerophon, who, from mortals, rose to heaven on the horses of Pegasus." [Ibid.] If Jupiter can have, Justin Martyr seems to reason, half a dozen divine sons, why cannot Jehovah have at least one?

Instead of producing historical evidence or appealing to creditable documents, as one would to prove the existence of a Caesar or an Alexander, Justin Martyr draws upon pagan mythology in his reply to the critics of Christianity. All he seems to ask for is that Jesus be given a higher place among the divinities of the ancient world.

To help their cause the Christian apologists not infrequently also changed the sense of certain Old Testament passages to make them support the miraculous stories in the New Testament. For example, having borrowed from Oriental books the story of the god in a manger, surrounded by staring animals, the Christian fathers introduced a prediction of this event into the following text from the book of Habakkuk in the Bible: "Accomplish thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known, etc." [Heb. iii. 2.] This Old Testament text appeared in the Greek translation as follows: "Thou shalt manifest thyself in the midst of two animals," which was fulfilled of course when Jesus was born in a stable. How weak must be one's case to resort to such tactics in order to command a following! And when it is remembered that these follies were deemed necessary to prove the reality of what has been claimed as the most stupendous event in all history, one can readily see upon how fragile a foundation is built the story of the Christian God-man.

Let us continue: Abraham Lincoln's associates and contemporaries are all known to history. The immediate companions of Jesus appear to be, on the other hand, as mythical as he is himself. Who was Matthew? Who was Mark? Who were John, Peter, Judas, and Mary? There is absolutely no evidence that they ever existed. They are not mentioned except in the New Testament books, which, as we shall see, are "supposed" copies of "supposed" originals. If Peter ever went to Rome with a new doctrine, how is it that no historian has taken note of him? If Paul visited Athens and preached from Mars Hill, how is it that there is no mention of him or of his strange Gospel in the Athenian chronicles? For all we know, both Peter and Paul may have really existed, but it is only a guess, as we have no means of ascertaining. The uncertainty about the apostles of Jesus is quite in keeping with the uncertainty about Jesus himself.

The report that Jesus had twelve apostles seems also mythical. The number twelve, like the number seven, or three, or forty, plays an important role in all Sun-myths, and points to the twelve signs of the Zodiac. Jacob had twelve sons; there were twelve tribes of Israel; twelve months in the year; twelve gates or pillars of heaven, etc. In many of the religions of the world, the number twelve is sacred. There have been few god-saviors who did not have twelve apostles or messengers. In one or two places, in the New Testament, Jesus is made to send out "the seventy" to evangelize the world. Here again we see the presence of a myth. It was believed that there were seventy different nations in the world -- to each nation an apostle. Seventy wise men are supposed to have translated the Old Testament, sitting in seventy different cells. That is why their translation is called "the Septuagint." But it is all a legend, as there is no evidence of seventy scholars working in seventy individual cells on the Hebrew Bible. One of the Church Fathers declares that he saw these seventy cells with his own eyes. He was the only one who saw them.

That the "Twelve Apostles" are fanciful may be inferred from the obscurity in which the greater number of them have remained. Peter, Paul, John, James, Judas, occupy the stage almost exclusively. If Paul was an apostle, we have fourteen, instead of twelve. Leaving out Judas, and counting Matthias, who was elected in his place, we have thirteen apostles.

The number forty figures also in many primitive myths. The Jews were in the wilderness for forty years; Jesus fasted for forty days; from the resurrection to the ascension were forty days; Moses was on the mountain with God for forty days. An account in which such scrupulous attention is shown to supposed sacred numbers is apt to be more artificial than real. The biographers of Lincoln or of Socrates do not seem to be interested in numbers. They write history, not stories.

Again, many of the contemporaries of Lincoln bear written witness to his existence. The historians of the time, the statesmen, the publicists, the chroniclers -- all seem to be acquainted with him,or to have heard of him. It is impossible to explain why the contemporaries of Jesus, the authors and historians of his time, do not take notice of him. If Abraham Lincoln was important enough to have attracted the attention of his contemporaries, how much more Jesus. -- Is it reasonable to suppose that these Pagan and Jewish writers knew of Jesus, -- had heard of his incomparably great works and sayings, -- but omitted to give him a page or a line? Could they have been in a conspiracy against him? How else is this unanimous silence to be accounted for? Is it not more likely that the wonder-working Jesus was unknown to them? And he was unknown to them because no such Jesus existed in their day.

Should the student, looking into Abraham Lincoln's history, discover that no one of his biographers knew positively just when he lived or where he was born, he would have reason to conclude that because of this uncertainty on the part of the biographers, he must be more exacting than he otherwise would have been. That is precisely our position. Of course, there are in history great men of whose birthplaces or birthdays we are equally uncertain. But we believe in their existence, not because no one seems to know exactly when and where they were born, but because there is overwhelming evidence corroborating the other reports about them, and which is sufficient to remove the suspicion suggested by the darkness hanging over their nativity. Is there any evidence strong enough to prove the historicity of Jesus, in spite of the fact that not even his supposed companions, writing during the lifetime of Jesus' mother, have any definite information to give.

But let us continue. The reports current about a man like Lincoln are verifiable, while many of those about Jesus are of a nature that no amount of evidence can confirm. That Lincoln was President of these United States, that he signed the Emancipation Proclamation, and that he was assassinated, can be readily authenticated.

But how can any amount of evidence satisfy one's self that Jesus was born of a virgin, for instance? Such a report or rumor can never even be examined; it does not lend itself to evidence; it is beyond the sphere of history; it is not a legitimate question for investigation. It belongs to mythology. Indeed, to put forth a report of that nature is to forbid the use of evidence, and to command forcible acquiescence, which, to say the least, is a very suspicious circumstance, calculated to hurt rather than to help the Jesus story.

The report that Jesus was God is equally impossible of verification. How are we to prove whether or not a certain person was God? Jesus may have been a wonderful man, but is every wonderful man a God? Jesus may have claimed to have been a God, but is every one who puts forth such a claim a God? How, then, are we to decide which of the numerous candidates for divine honors should be given our votes? And can we by voting for Jesus make him a God? Observe to what confusion the mere attempt to follow such a report leads us.

A human Jesus may or may not have existed, but we are as sure as we can be of anything, that a virgin-born God, named Jesus, such as we must believe in or be eternally lost, is an impossibility -- except to credulity. But credulity is no evidence at all, even when it is dignified by the name of FAITH.

Let us pause for a moment to reflect: The final argument for the existence of the miraculous Jesus, preached in church and Sunday-school, these two thousand years, as the sole savior of the world, is an appeal to faith -- the same to which Mohammed resorts to establish his claims, and Joseph Smith, to prove his revelation. There is no other possible way by which the virgin-birth or the godhood of a man can be established. And such a faith is never free, it is always maintained by the sword now, and by hell-fire hereafter.

Once more, if it had been reported of Abraham Lincoln that he predicted his own assassination; that be promised some of his friends they would not die until they saw him coming again upon the clouds of heaven; that he would give them thrones to sit upon; that they could safely drink deadly poisons in his name, or that he would grant them any request which they might make, provided they asked it for his sake, we would be justified in concluding that such a Lincoln never existed. Yet the most impossible utterances are put in Jesus' mouth. He is made to say: "Whatsoever ye shall ask in my name that will I do." No man who makes such a promise can keep it. It is not sayings like the above that can prove a man a God. Has Jesus kept his promise? Does he give his people everything, or "whatsoever" they ask of him? But, it is answered, "Jesus only meant to say that he would give whatever he himself considered good for his friends to have." Indeed! Is that the way to crawl out of a contract? If that is what he meant, why did he say something else? Could he not have said just what he meant, in the first place? Would it not have been fairer not to have given his friends any occasion for false expectations? Better to promise a little and do more, than to promise everything and do nothing. But to say that Jesus really entered into any such agreement is to throw doubt upon his existence. Such a character is too wild to be real. Only a mythical Jesus could virtually hand over the government of the universe to courtier who have petitions to press upon his attention. Moreover, if Jesus could keep his promise, there would be today no misery in the world, no orphans, no childless mothers no shipwrecks, no floods, no famines, no disease, no crippled children, no insanity, no wars, no crime, no wrong! Have not a thousand, thousand prayers been offered in Jesus' name against every evil which has ploughed the face of our earth? Have these prayers been answered? Then why is there discontent in the world? Can the followers of Jesus move mountains, drink deadly poisons, touch serpents, or work greater miracles than are ascribed to Jesus, as it was promised that they would do? How many self- deluded prophets these extravagant claims have produced! And who can number the bitter disappointments caused by such impossible promises?

George Jacob Holyoake, of England, tells how in the days of utter poverty, his believing mother asked the Lord, again and again -- on her knees, with tears streaming from her eyes, and with absolute faith in Jesus' ability to keep His promise, -- to give her starving children their daily bread. But the more fervently she prayed the heavier grew the burden of her life. A stone or wooden idol could not have been more indifferent to a mother's tears. "My mind aches as I think of those days," writes Mr. Holyoake. One day he went to see the Rev. Mr. Cribbace, who had invited inquirers to his house. "Do you really believe," asked young Holyoake to the clergyman, "that what we ask in faith we shall receive?" "It never struck me," continues Mr. Holyoake, "that the preacher's threadbare dress, his half-famished look, and necessity of taking up a collection the previous night to pay expense's showed that faith was not a source of income to him. It never struck me that if help could be obtained by prayer no church would be needy, no believer would be poor." What answer did the preacher give to Holyoake's earnest question? The same which the preachers of today give: "He parried his answer with many words, and at length said that the promise was to be taken with the provision that what we asked for would be given, if God thought it for our good." Why then, did not Jesus explain that important proviso when he made the promise? Was Jesus only making a half statement, the other half of which he would reveal later to protect himself against disappointed petitioners. But he said: "If ye ask anything in my name, I will do it," and "If it were not so, I would have told you." Did he not mean just what be said? The truth is that no historical person in his senses ever made such extraordinary, such impossible promises, and the report that Jesus made them only goes to confirm that their author is only a legendary being.

When this truth dawned upon Mr. Holyoake he ceased to petition Heaven, which was like "dropping a bucket into an empty well," and began to look elsewhere for help. [Bygones Worth Remembering. -- George Jacob Holyoake.] The world owes its advancement to the fact that men no longer look to Heaven for help, but help themselves. Self-effort, and not prayer, is the remedy against ignorance, slavery, poverty, and moral degradation. Fortunately, by bolding up before us an impossible Jesus, with his impossible promises, the churches have succeeded only in postponing, but not in preventing, the progress of man. This is a compliment to human nature, and it is well earned. It is also a promise that in time humanity will be completely emancipated from every phantom which in the past has scared it into silence or submission, and

"A loftier race than e'er the world

Hath known shall rise

With flame of liberty in their souls,

And light of science in their eyes."

by M.M. MANGASARIAN

First off, if you read the Bible expecting to make sense of it's happenings, you will never believe it. It defies all logic. It is super-natural. It is faith, believing without seeing. I do belive the Bible, I do not have to read it looking for a scientific explanation, because it is beyond science. You scientifically cannot rationalize the word of God, therefore you do not belive it. I have many reasons why I know that there is a God, by experiencing his power and witnessing miracles that a "myth" could not deliver. That is the God that I know exsists and it cannot be waiverd. Also dying would be very scary without the hope of Jesus Christ.

God never promised the list of things that you named for this world... peace...etc. He promised those thngs to us after this life. Adam and Eve began the sins of this world.

I'd also like to know what the scientific explaination is for the rainbow, because God said that was his promise that he would never flood the "earth" again. This earth has never again been flooded... is that a coincidence?

I understand wanting to research everything, wanting to tear it inside and out to get the truth. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth." We live on earth, and we say the stars are above us in the heavens. Right there we see the very first verse in the Bible is true. Verse 2 "And the earth was without for and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." verse 3 "And God said let there be light and there WAS light." We don't live in darkness. We have night and we have day. Another verse confirmed. "And God called the light day and the darkness he called night." Funny, if the Bible isn't true why have we stuck with those titles? I have never read in the Bible that it is Jesus' birthday. I personally don't believe it is. I do however set that one day apart to thank him for being born and coming down to earth to save our souls. It doesn't mean he was born on that day. We celebrate Presidents day well not all the presidents were born on that day just like memorial day and labor day. Just think about this for a minute. If the pilgrims and puritans hadn't wanted to be able to worship God freely we wouldn't be here today. We wouldn't have this great nation. They went through a lot of trouble just to worship a God that didn't exist don't you think? They faced starvation and illness. And hey if our founding fathers hadn't thought it was important to only have King Jesus we'd still be under Englands control. What if they had decided they didn't want to risk their lives and their fortunes (their words not mine)? It's only through belief in God that you and I are here today.

Molly sue what exactly do you mean by this.....do you mean a real rainbow? I am terribly confused. If that is what you mean there is a scientific explanation for it.....please help me understand what you meant....

I'd also like to know what the scientific explaination is for the rainbow, because God said that was his promise that he would never flood the "earth" again. This earth has never again been flooded... is that a coincidence?

Dying is a part of life and when I die it wont be with Jesus. I am okay with that. I am comforted by that because then it allows me to not to be dilluted in thinking that I am going to still be here, or be with jesus, or whatever else Xians believe is going to happen. It allows me to accept death for death. At large events in my life I have never said, "boy my grandmother (who is dead) is looking down on me right now and she is happy" I have said "I think my grandmother would be happy with what I am doing with my life if she were here" There is a huge difference there. It allows one to remember that person for what they taught you, how they treated you, and the values and lessons they left behind....and not for it to be clouded by she is happy because she is hanging out with my homeboy jesus.

Glorysgal that is my right to research everything and tear it inside and out until I have the ultimate truth. I am sorry if I ask to many questions. Or question your beliefs and make you think on the subject but that is what I want to do. You dont have an argument with me stating that the first verses of the bible are true. When I think all those things happened for scientific reasons and you think that jesus waved his hands in the air and it magically happened. So I am not even going to address because you will only feel that jesus created everything in this wonderful little world. Ok well maybe I will a little. Stars are balls of gases and plasma (gases that are around for scientific reasons), day and night happened because of the sun's movement around the earth (which is again for a scientific reason) Jesus did not flip the swtich and make it happen.......dark was called night and light was called day because someone named them that. It could have very well been jesus if he was alive then. Maybe jesus was just a normal man that died when he was in his 30s and someone thought he was cool and made up all these stories about him over the years and it just got passed down over and over and over again....Maybe Christianity is the biggest prank of all time. Anyways night is night and day is day because someone named it that just as an inch is an inch and a balloon is a balloon. It certainly doesnt make it true because it is in a book of fiction....

It is not through the belief of God that you and I are here.....it is because my parents had sex, and before that their parents had sex, and before that their parents had sex. And my parents got together so they could have sex, to have me be here, because they liked each other....they each other were cute, funny, whateever you want to say are the reasons people are attracted to one another.......

Of course I am speaking about the "real" rainbow. You don't want to believe in the reality of God, therefore you probably never will. I will not use my Jesus as a weapon to a person who denounces his very existance. You did say that you were brought up in a christian home and your parents raised you that way. My heart goes out to your parents. I'm raising my child to know Jesus and Love him with all her heart, and I'm teaching her to have her own personal relationship with him, so she will make heaven her home. If later in life, she strayed so far away from those teachings that she believes in nothing, it would break my heart! Especially knowing her fate when her days here on earth are thru. That's why I can only PRAY that God allows her to have a "real" experience with him. Not just to learn about him, but to experience him. I appreciate our conversations, because it reminds me of how detrimental it truley is, to know who God really is first hand. It is more then just "works" going to church, being a good person or being baptized. It's a whole lot more then that! Somewhere along the way, you missed out on a wonderful gift. I hope someday you will let your gaurd down long enough to allow God to work in your life.

I'm not trying to push God onto you, you have a right to believe any way that you choose, but you have shared your view, so I am sharing mine. I'd rather hold strong to my belief and be saved by God's grace incase my theory is right ( which it is )... then to believe your way and be lost in the end!

mollysue i think you just hit the nail on the head. i'd rather believe in a lie (and it's not a lie) my whole life then spend all of eternity in hell people are going to believe what they want to believe and that's ok i'm not trying to change anyones mind believing what i do it makes me sad when people don't believe in jesus but that's their free choice all i can do is live my life for christ and pray and if that's all i can do well then that's the way it's going to be and that's ok

Living your life for Christ and Praying is the only thing to do! Isn't it interesting that the cliche is to never talk politics or religeon, do we all like living on the edge? Oh yes the edge, is that were hiding behind aliases. :)

I thought I tried to make it clear that I know neither of us are ever going to agree with each other. Its just not going to happen. If your daughter or son ends up doing what I have done to me parents. It will have been nothing you did wrong. If that does happen you should be proud of your child just as my parents are of me for being a sound adult with a good head on my shoulders and an ability to come to the conclusions I have about faith or lack there of, religion of any kind, and a supposed God.

If you child comes to this sort of conclusion that I have it means that they have looked at from all angles and examinned every portion of it. I think it shoudl break you heard if your child wakes up one day and says he/she is an atheist with no explanation. That is why we are human beings for the simple fact that we can always ask why. i dont think waht you are doing with your child is wrong it is what most parents do. But if there is a day that your child comes home and wants to think for herself/himself rather than just beliving what mom and dad have said that please accept her/him for it. Question your child and get answers for why they feel the way they do. It is the only way the two of you will be content with each other on the matter.

glorfysgal why would you say I'd rather believe in a lie....(and its not a lie) your wording is very interesting to me...

also on the rainbow issue scientific proof listed below......

A rainbow is an optical and meteorological phenomenon that causes a spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the Sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the Earth's atmosphere. They take the form of a multicoloured arc, with red on the outer part of the arch and violet on the inner section of the arch.

but if you believe God created absolutely everything on this earth like light, sky, sun, moisture, the earth's atmosphere....then i guess my coping and pasting into this comment was wasted.....

BUT HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT THE SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION IS TRUE>>>>>>

I cant get over it.....its right there in black and white.....not scripture in the bible....

I am not afraid to talk about politics or religion. It is just easier to write through this than see you in public and sound off on it. You will never understand me as I will never understand how you think praying to God is all you can do. Or why so much credit is placed in the bible a book of fiction that has been passed down from year to year to bring us into a nation full of christians that are just afraid to die.....so we (the Xians) created soemthign called the rapture and that makes it all okay. It makes all the hate, anger, pain, and death in this world jsut go away because we (the Xians) know that God (the Xians Lord and Saviour) is supposedly going to descend from the heavens and take all the Xians back up to be at peace for all of eternity......

i dont buy it

i don't believe in the rapture either. i believe that we are ALL going to face God's judgment someday. i don't care about the scientific explanation because science can be wrong. yes jesus is going to come back and then all the people in the world are going to be saying they wish they'd accepted christ as their saviour God's Word is fact but you say it is a book of fiction. why are you so certain it isn't truth? i'm certain it is and you're certain it isn't are you aware that many of the scientists you put so much faith in were christians like thomas alva edison?

why yes i am aware of the thomas edison but are you aware of ...

Einstein was an agnostic

Main article: Lists of atheists

[edit] Science and technology

Axelrod

Blackett

Dawkins

Dirac

Ellis

Feynman

Freud

Hawking

Kroto

Mayr

Nurse

Pauling

Pavlov

Plasterk

Sagan

Watson

Weinberg

Peter Atkins (1940–): English chemist, Professor of chemistry at Lincoln College, Oxford in England.[1]

Julius Axelrod (1912–2004): American Nobel Prize winning biochemist, noted for his work on the release and reuptake of catecholamine neurotransmitters and major contributions to the understanding of the pineal gland and how it is regulated during the sleep-wake cycle.[2]

Sir Edward Battersby Bailey FRS (1881–1965): British geologist, director of the British Geological Survey.[3]

Sir Patrick Bateson FRS (1938–): English biologist and science writer, Emeritus Professor of ethology at Cambridge University and president of the Zoological Society of London.[4]

Patrick Blackett OM, CH, FRS (1897–1974): Nobel Prize winning English experimental physicist known for his work on cloud chambers, cosmic rays, and paleomagnetism.[5]

Susan Blackmore (1951–): English psychologist and memeticist, best known for her book The Meme Machine.[6]

Sir Hermann Bondi KCB, FRS (1919–2005): Anglo-Austrian mathematician and cosmologist, best known for co-developing the steady-state theory of the universe and important contributions to the theory of general relativity.[7][8]

Paul D. Boyer (1918–): American biochemist and Nobel Laureate in Chemistry in 1997.[9]

Calvin Bridges (1889–1938): American geneticist, known especially for his work on fruit fly genetics.[10]

Ruth Mack Brunswick (1897–1946): American psychologist, a close confidant of and collaborator with Sigmund Freud.[11]

Sean M. Carroll (1956–): American cosmologist specializing in dark energy and general relativity.[12]

Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar (1910–1995): Indian American astrophysicist known for his theoretical work on the structure and evolution of stars. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1983.[13]

William Kingdon Clifford FRS (1845–1879): English mathematician and philosopher, co-introducer of geometric algebra, the first to suggest that gravitation might be a manifestation of an underlying geometry, and coiner of the expression "mind-stuff".[14]

Frank Close OBE (1845–1879): British particle physicist, Professor of Physics at the University of Oxford and a Fellow of Exeter College, Oxford, known for his lectures and writings making science intelligible to a wider audience, for which he was awarded the Institute of Physics's Kelvin Medal and Prize.[15]

Francis Crick (1916–2004): English molecular biologist, physicist, and neuroscientist; noted for being one of the co-discoverers of the structure of the DNA molecule in 1953. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1962.[16][17][18][19][20][21][22]

Sir Howard Dalton FRS (1944–2008): British microbiologist, Chief Scientific Advisor to the UK's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs from March 2002 to September 2007.[23]

Richard Dawkins (1941–): British zoologist, biologist, creator of the concepts of the selfish gene and the meme; outspoken atheist and popularizer of science, author of The God Delusion and founder of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science.[24]

Arnaud Denjoy (1884–1974): French mathematician, noted for his contributions to harmonic analysis and differential equations.[25]

Paul Dirac (1902–1984): British theoretical physicist, one of the founders of quantum mechanics, predicted the existence of antimatter, and won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1933.[26][27]

Albert Ellis (1913–2007): American psychologist who in 1955 developed Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy.[28].

Leon Festinger (1919–1989): American social psychologist famous for his Theory of Cognitive Dissonance.[29].

Richard Feynman (1918–1988): American theoretical physicist, best known for his work in renormalizing Quantum electrodynamics (QED) and his path integral formulation of quantum mechanics . He won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1965.[30][31]

Sigmund Freud (1856–1939): Father of psychoanalysis.[32]

Erich Fromm (1900–1980): renowned Jewish-German-American social psychologist, psychoanalyst, and humanistic philosopher, associated with the Frankfurt School of critical theory.[33]

Christer Fuglesang (1957–), Swedish astronaut and physicist.[34]

Vitaly Ginzburg (1916–): Russian theoretical physicist and astrophysicist who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 2003. He was also awarded the Wolf Prize in Physics in 1994/95.[35]

Stephen Jay Gould (1941–2002): American paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science, one of the most influential and widely read writers of popular science of his generation.[36]

Susan Greenfield, Baroness Greenfield, CBE (1950–): British scientist, writer and broadcaster, specialising in the physiology of the brain, who has worked to research and bring attention to Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.[37]

Jonathan Haidt (c.1964–): Associate professor of psychology at the University of Virginia, focusing on the psychological bases of morality across different cultures, and author of The Happiness Hypothesis.[38]

E. T. 'Teddy' Hall (1924–2001): English archaeological scientist, famous for exposing the Piltdown Man fraud and dating the Turin Shroud as a medieval fake.[39]

Sir James Hall (1761–1832): Scottish geologist and chemist, President of the Royal Society of Edinburgh and leading figure in the Scottish Enlightenment.[40]

Beverly Halstead (1933–1991): British paleontologist and populariser of science.[41]

G. H. Hardy (1877–1947): a prominent English mathematician, known for his achievements in number theory and mathematical analysis.[42][43]

Stephen Hawking CH, CBE, FRS, FRSA (1942–): British theoretical physicist, Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge, and a Fellow of Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge, known for his contributions to the fields of cosmology and quantum gravity, especially in the context of black holes, and his popular works in which he discusses his own theories and cosmology in general, including A Brief History of Time.[44][45].[46]

Peter Higgs (1929–): British theoretical physicist, recipient of the Dirac Medal and Prize, known for his prediction of the existence of a new particle, the Higgs boson, nicknamed the "God particle".[47]

Lancelot Hogben (1895–1975): English experimental zoologist and medical statistician, now best known for his popularising books on science, mathematics and language.[48]

Nicholas Humphrey (1943–): British psychologist, working on consciousness and belief in the supernatural from a Darwinian perspective, and primatological research into Machiavellian intelligence theory.[49]

Sir Julian Huxley FRS (1887–1975): English evolutionary biologist, a leading figure in the mid-twentieth century evolutionary synthesis, Secretary of the Zoological Society of London (1935-1942), the first Director of UNESCO, and a founding member of the World Wildlife Fund.[50]

Frédéric Joliot-Curie (1900–1958): French physicist and Nobel Laureate in Chemistry in 1935.[51][52]

Steve Jones (1944–): British geneticist, Professor of genetics and head of the biology department at University College London, and television presenter and a prize-winning author on biology, especially evolution; one of the best known contemporary popular writers on evolution.[53]

Harold Kroto (1939–): 1996 Nobel Laureate in Chemistry.[54]

Alfred Kinsey (1894–1956): American biologist, sexologist and professor of entomology and zoology.[55]

Richard Leakey (1944–): Kenyan paleontologist, archaeologist and conservationist.[56]

Sir John Leslie (1766–1832): Scottish mathematician and physicist best remembered for his research into heat; he was the first person to artificially produce ice, and gave the first modern account of capillary action.[57]

H. Christopher Longuet-Higgins FRS (1923–2004): English theoretical chemist and a cognitive scientist.[58]

Samarendra Maulik (1881–1950): Indian entomologist specialising in the Coleoptera, who worked at the British Museum (Natural History) and a Professor of Zoology at the University of Calcutta.[59]

John Maynard Smith (1920–2004): British evolutionary biologist and geneticist, instrumental in the application of game theory to evolution, and noted theorizer on the evolution of sex and signalling theory.[60]

Ernst Mayr (1904–2005): a renowned taxonomist, tropical explorer, ornithologist, historian of science, and naturalist. He was one of the 20th century's leading evolutionary biologists.[61]

Sir Peter Medawar (1915–1987): Nobel Prize-winning British scientist best known for his work on how the immune system rejects or accepts tissue transplants.[62]

Jeff Medkeff (1968–2008): American astronomer, prominent science writer and educator, and designer of robotic telescopes.[63]

Jonathan Miller CBE (1934–): British physician, actor, theatre and opera director, and television presenter. Wrote and presented the 2004 television series, Atheism: A Rough History of Disbelief, exploring the roots of his own atheism and investigating the history of atheism in the world.[64][65]

Peter D. Mitchell (1920–1992): 1978-Nobel-laureate British biochemist. Atheist mother, and himself atheist from age 15.[66]

Jacques Monod (1910–1976): French biologist who won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1965 for discoveries concerning genetic control of enzyme and virus synthesis.[67]

Desmond Morris (1928–): English zoologist and ethologist, famous for describing human behaviour from a zoological perspective in his books The Naked Ape and The Human Zoo.[68][69]

Fritz Müller (1821–1897): German biologist who emigrated to Brazil, where he studied the natural history of the Amazon rainforest and was an early advocate of evolutionary theory.[70]

Hermann Joseph Muller (1890–1967): American geneticist and educator, best known for his work on the physiological and genetic effects of radiation (X-ray mutagenesis). He won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1946.[71]

PZ Myers (1957–): American biology professor at the University of Minnesota and a science blogger via his blog, Pharyngula.[72]

Paul Nurse (1949–): 2001 Nobel Laureate in Physiology or Medicine.[73]

Linus Pauling (1901–1994): American chemist, Nobel Laureate in Chemistry (1954) and Peace (1962)[74][27]

John Allen Paulos (1945–): Professor of mathematics at Temple University in Philadelphia and writer, author of Irreligion: A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up (2007)[75]

Ivan Pavlov (1849–1936): Nobel Prize winning Russian physiologist, psychologist, and physician, widely known for first describing the phenomenon of classical conditioning.[76]

Francis Perrin (1901–1992): French physicist, co-establisher the possibility of nuclear chain reactions and nuclear energy production.[77]

Massimo Pigliucci (1964–): Professor of Ecology and Evolution at the Stony Brook University and is known as an outspoken critic of creationism and advocate of science education.[78]

Steven Pinker (1954–): Canadian-born American psychologist.[79]

Norman Pirie FRS (1954–): British biochemist and virologist co-discoverer in 1936 of viral crystallization, an important milestone in understanding DNA and RNA.[80]

Ronald Plasterk (1957–): Dutch prize-winning molecular geneticist and columnist, and Minister of Education, Culture and Science in the fourth Balkenende cabinet for the Labour Party.[81]

Derek J. de Solla Price (1922–1983): British-American historian of science. [82]

Frank P. Ramsey (1903–1930): British mathematician who also made significant contributions in philosophy and economics.[83]

Richard J. Roberts (1943–): British biochemist and molecular biologist. He won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1993 for the discovery of introns in eukaryotic DNA and the mechanism of gene-splicing.[84][85][86]

Steven Rose (1938–): Professor of Biology and Neurobiology at the Open University and University of London, and author of several popular science books.[87]

Oliver Sacks (1933–): United States-based British neurologist, who has written popular books about his patients, the most famous of which is Awakenings.[88]

Carl Sagan (1934–1996): American astronomer and astrochemist, a highly successful popularizer of astronomy, astrophysics, and other natural sciences, and pioneer of exobiology and promoter of the SETI.[89][90]

Robert Sapolsky (1957–): Professor of Biological Sciences and Professor of Neurology and Neurological Sciences at Stanford University.[91]

Amartya Kumar Sen (1933–): 1998 Nobel Laureate in Economics.[92][93][94][95]

Claude Shannon (1916–2001): American electrical engineer and mathematician, has been called "the father of information theory", and was the founder of practical digital circuit design theory.[96]

Michael Smith (1932–2000): British-born Canadian biochemist and Nobel Laureate in Chemistry in 1993.[97]

Richard Stallman (1953–): American software freedom activist, hacker, and software developer.[98]

Victor J. Stenger (1935–): American physicist, emeritus professor of Physics and Astronomy at the University of Hawaii and adjunct professor of Philosophy at the University of Colorado. Author of the book God: The Failed Hypothesis.[99]

Jack Suchet (1908–2001): South African born obstetrician, gynaecologist and venereologist, who carried out research on the use of penicillin in the treatment of venereal disease with Sir Alexander Fleming.[100]

Eleazar Sukenik (1889–1953): Israeli archaeologist and professor of Hebrew University in Jerusalem, undertaking excavations in Jerusalem, and recognising the importance of the Dead Sea Scrolls to Israel.[101]

Leonard Susskind (1940–): American theoretical physicist; a founding father of superstring theory and professor of theoretical physics at Stanford University.[102]

Raymond Tallis (1946–): Leading British gerontologist, philosopher, poet, novelist and cultural critic.[103]

Frank J. Tipler (1947–): American mathematical physicist and professor at Tulane University.[104]

Gherman Titov (1935–2000): Soviet cosmonaut and the second human to orbit the Earth.[105]

Linus Torvalds (1969–): Finnish software engineer, creator of the Linux kernel.[106]

Alan Turing (1912–1954): English mathematician, logician, and cryptographer; often considered to be the father of modern computer science. The Turing Award, often recognized as the "Nobel Prize of computing", is named after him.[107][108]

Matthew Turner (d. c.1789): chemist, surgeon, teacher and radical theologian, author of the first published work of avowed atheism in Britain (1782).[109][110]

W. Grey Walter (1910–1977): American neurophysiologist famous for his work on brain waves, and robotician.[111]

James D. Watson (1928–): 1962-Nobel-laureate co-discover of the structure of DNA.[112][113]

Steven Weinberg (1933–): American theoretical physicist. He won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1979 for the unification of electromagnetism and the weak force into the electroweak force.[114][115][116]

David Sloan Wilson (1949–): American evolutionary biologist, son of Sloan Wilson, proponent of multilevel selection theory and author of several popular books on evolution.[117]

Lewis Wolpert CBE FRS FRSL (1929–): developmental biologist, author, and broadcaster.[118]

Steve Wozniak (1950–): co-founder of Apple Computer and inventor of the Apple I and Apple II.[119]

Elizur Wright (1804–1885): American mathematician and abolitionist, sometimes described as the "father of life insurance" for his pioneering work on actuarial tables.[120]

Will Wright (1960–): American computer game designer and co-founder of the game development company Maxis.[121]

Victor Weisskopf (1908–2002): Austrian-American theoretical physicist, co-founder and board member of the Union of Concerned Scientists. [122]

I guess all these atheist scientists whom are credited with many findings are just a bunch of bullshit according to you beliefs....

we will never understand each other I am sure of it......I just can get by it..

Connie D:

Wow what a great observation that you cannot stregthen the weak by weakening the strong, I have never heard it stated that way before and it makes perfect sense for people as well as countries. We have people for their own reasons that want to weaken and destroy this country even though we have been the most giving and caring country in the History of the World. I have been wondering who will take our place in the world when the next earthquake or tsaunami hits somewhere in the world. I don't remember Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, Europe, China, Russia or dozens of other countries rushing aid to Indonesia when the tsaunami hit that country, but we did. Obama will mean the complete destruction of this country as we have known it and I predict that those people who have spent the last eight years hating Bush (What a waste of time) will come to the realization that they have made a tragic mistake, but it will be too late. He is a radical leftist, he will weaken our military, and attack our right to own guns, attack anyone who disagrees with him the way they attacked "Joe the Plumber". Much was made about Joe owing money in back taxes, isn't that what caused the subprime mortgage crisis, people not being able to pay their bills, why did NBC find this so revealing? So Joe didn't have a plumbers license, so what? His boss had a license, ever hear of a plumber's helper? That would still make Joe a plumber by profession. But the real scary thing is that Joe the plumber was investigated thoroughly and this is the best they could come up with. Obama has ties to Pakistani students who took him to Pakistan, Africa, and Indonesia, who did he talk to when he was there and who did he meet? He sat in a church for twenty years and listened to Anti-American rhetoric, how many of us would have sat there for twenty minutes? He has associations with Bill Ayers and Louis Farrahkan who all live only a block from each other. Louis Farrahkan has called Israel that gutter religion and called for it's destruction. When the subject of religion came up recently Obama mentioned his muslim faith then realized he had made a major slip and said that was wrong he didn't mean to say that. If he has been such a good Christian for twenty years why would Muslim faith be on the top of his mind? He also has a friend who was member of Hamas and the PLO. But hey, nothing to worry about because he just recieved the blessing of Colin Powell, right? I don't know if Obama is a threat to this country or not, but there is enough there to be concerned about and we should be investigating every aspect of his background to be sure. You can't get a Postal Worker's job without a complete and thorough background check, yet all we know very little really about Obama's past. We know he took and sold drugs, that he became friends with a crooked Tony Resko, Bill Ayers, Pastors Wright and Flugel, had two Pakistani roommates in College and believes in redistribution of wealth. But from whom and to who has not been explained. For Democrats it is hateful to want to know exactly what we can expect from an Obama Administration. It is hateful to question why all his associations seem to be with people who have expressed outright hatred for this country and even bombed the Pentagon and the Capital, not even the Democrats deny it happened because Bill Ayers is proud of it and said so openly. He is not repentent and is working today to bring Marxist tactics and philosophy to students in Chicago and elsewhere. None of this seems to make a dimes worth of difference to a vast majority of Americans, so be it, let it be on your heads for a change. As for me I will sit back and wait for the Utopian Socieity that people like Bill Ayers, Barney Frank, Franklin Raines, Pastor Wright, Chuck Schumer, Cris Dodd and an Obama Administration will undoubtedly usher in. I don't want to hear any crying about how it is all Bush's fault if that Utopian Society doesn't materialize and something goes horribly wrong. He is the Messiah and only he can turned this country around and make the changes so many of you red-blooded Americans say you want. Right?

swann2001 good observation it isn't president bush's fault 911 happened we had to fight this war not many things in this world scare me but barrack obabma does concerned15 youre probably right we won't agree on anything

Wow swann2001, Amazing insight! How refreshing to hear someone on here with some wisdom! I agree with you so much, it is so plain to see isn't it? People who cannot see what is right in front of there face scare me! To think that Americans are so blind to the things around them. John McCain is an open book, about all of his connections, his wonderful history and the paper trail of his campaign. Obama will not produce any of these things, how come? Why wont he be honest about where his funding is coming from? Why has he been so dishonest with his associations, and why is he putting so much into getting the people to vote prematurely? It is because, if the people vote now, when he is exposed in the next 2 weeks it will be to late. He knows alot is going to come out and he wants the people to have already cast their votes.His own vice president knows something that we don't know. He has never been able to keep his mouth shutt, and this is just another one of those times. We need to take heed to Joe Biden's own words and if we listen to the rest of his comment that was not initially aired, it's quite disturbing! If our President is tested I want someone in office that can handle it! You know everyone is shaking by the state of the economy, with good reason, but don't people realize that without the saftey of our country it doesn't matter what our economy is like. McCain will keep us safe and produce a well functioning economy, and he won't take our hard earned money and give it to welfare. We can't listen to Obama's smooth words, we need to look deeper into what his plan really consists of, and some people out there might change there minds.

Swann2001

how is this true?

Obama will mean the complete destruction of this country as we have known it and I predict that those people who have spent the last eight years hating Bush (What a waste of time) will come to the realization that they have made a tragic mistake, but it will be too late.

I dont pretend to think that Obama and Biden compeltely have their shit together. Obama is not attacking your right to have guns. As someone else stated about, He is just attacking your right to have an AK-47 in your garage. There has to be a little control when it comes to personal weapons in this country. Anyon in there right mind would see that owning an AK-47 or any other type of large scale weaponary is not what personal choice and freedom is about when owning a gun.

"Obama has ties to Pakistani students who took him to Pakistan, Africa, and Indonesia, who did he talk to when he was there and who did he meet? "

Swann at least are friend Obama has been to another country wihtin the most recent years. Not in the 60s or at all...

holy crap obama does not have ties to william ayers and I am pretty sure that william ayers was not a terrorist. HE was a college professor and if you think he was a terrorist anyone who was part of the protests of the 60s was a terrorist. Im sure John McCain was friends with quite of few of those people as well. SO I guess in your language John McCain mingled with terrorists too.....what the hell people open your eyes...

Oh my why is obama's muslim past a problem. he hasnt lied about it...he has told the truth when anyone asks those things from him.....we know that Obama took and sold drugs????? Are you serious? Where did you hear that FOx News????? give me a break ... do you think Mr. McCain never smoked pot in the war .....are you kidding me????

He is the Messiah and only he can turned this country around and make the changes so many of you red-blooded Americans say you want. Right?

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS WHAT>>>>>>

Glorsygal your right it isnt bush's fault 911 happened....it is his fault that we are spending millions and millions of dollars each day in IRAQ, IRAN, and AFGANISTAN still and thats each day not each month or each year we have been there......Each day millions expended on a war that no longer matters......think if all those funds were back here in the US what sort of state we would be in now....

"Obama will not produce any of these things, how come? Why wont he be honest about where his funding is coming from? "

he has been honest about his donations. HOw could he not be? He is under the largest microscope anyone has ever been. He got several parties from Hillary's campaign to now donate for his. He has been very honest I just dont understand you people....you are right mccain wont take our money and give it to welfare he will just hand it right over to the rich yeah thats a great idea..

CRAZINESS !!!!!!!

Um... concerned15, you need to get your facts straight! As a matter of fact Obama is not just against the AK-47. He wanted a man to be prosecuted for defending his family from an intruder, and it was with a hand gun. Don't be so blind, Bush has spent all that money keeping us safe so you can be on the computer right now spouting off such rediculous things. And for you to say that Ayers is not a terrorist, are YOU crazy? Someone who blows up a building is not a threat to this country, are you kidding me. So do you defend the attackers of 911? Come on those kinds of statements make you sound completely uneducated and un-American. Kow wonder why people are voting for Obama, they are just like him. If you think that Obama is being honest , you need to do a little research of your own, because you are clearly missing some very important information somewhere along the line!! Someone that will justify Ayers as not being a terrorist, will justify any unlawful act!!

Sarah Palin: Hockey Mom with $150,000 Wardrobe

How about this people????

Sarah Palin seemed to win the Governer of Alaska race by the wardrobe she could afford on her family's budget. 150,000 is a little excessive dont cha think????

If she spent 150,000 I wonder what the GOP spent on McCain. If she really cared she would have said, "hey I got enough clothes that I bought up here in wassilla. And they are just fine and dandy. Give that money to the homeless." Just think the good that could have been done with 150,000 instead of her fun girls day out with her kids at neiman marcus......

are you kidding me?

oh thats it you got me God is good, ayers is a terrorist, obama is christ-less muslim, obama is a terrorist, obama sold drugs, everything you are saying is true......

oh my

I cant believe you told me that I am defending the attackers of 911....thats it.....holy shit

check this out...

In a letter to the editor in the Chicago Tribune, Ayers wrote, "I condemn all forms of terrorism — individual, group and official". He also condemned the September 11 terrorist attacks in that letter. "Today we are witnessing crimes against humanity on our own shores on an unthinkable scale, and I fear that we may soon see more innocent people in other parts of the world dying in response."[26]

ooh ooh ooh and this.....

Ayers' blog explaining the soundbite: "The one thing I don't regret is opposing the war in Vietnam with every ounce of my being.... When I say, 'We didn't do enough,' a lot of people rush to think, 'That must mean, "We didn't bomb enough shit."' But that's not the point at all. It's not a tactical statement, it's an obvious political and ethical statement. In this context, 'we' means 'everyone

he was a young kid that opposed the war in Vietnam....

would this happen if William Ayers was a terrorist....

Ayers worked with Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley in shaping the city's school reform program,[30] and was one of three co-authors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge grant proposal that in 1995 won $49.2 million over five years for public school reform.[31] In 1997 Chicago awarded him its Citizen of the Year award for his work on the project.[32] Since 1999 he has served on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago, an anti-poverty, philanthropic foundation established as the Woods Charitable Fund in 1941.[33] According to Ayers, his radical past occasionally affects him, as when, by his account, he was asked not to attend a progressive educators' conference in the fall of 2006 on the basis that the organizers did not want to risk an association with his past.[34]

THE TRUTH ABOUT THEIR CONNECTION TOGETHER !!!!!!!

Bill Ayers and Barack Obama at one time lived in the same neighborhood in the city of Chicago, and both had worked on education reform in the state of Illinois. The two met "at a luncheon meeting about school reform."[43] Obama was named to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Project Board of Directors to oversee the distribution of grants in Chicago. Later in 1995, Ayers hosted "a coffee" for "Mr. Obama's first run for office."[44] The two served on the board of a community anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 2000 and 2002, during which time the board met 12 times.[44] In April 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate.[43] Since 2002, there has been little linking Obama and Ayers.[44] Obama said in September 2008 that he hadn't "seen him in a year-and-a-half."[45] In February 2008, Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement from the senator about the relationship between the two: "Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous."[43] CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the non-profit projects in which the two men were involved.[46] Internal reviews by The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time magazine, The Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic "have said that their reporting does not support the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship".[47] William C. Ibershof, the lead federal prosecutor of the Weather Underground case noted, "I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child."[48]

Mr. Obama is not being "linked" to Mr. Ayers terrorist activities, come on we all know that he was only eight years old. What is concerinng is that he would associate himself with such a man in late years. Doesn't it make you wonder what these other questionable people see in Obama? That they would befriend Obama? I would not want any association with such a person.

By the way, I have friends that I havn't seen in 5 years, that doesn't mean that I do not keep in touch with them. So the statement from Obama about not seeing Ayers for a year in a half, means absolutely nothing!

You have to listen very carefully to Obama's own words. when he was asked by John McCain about Ayers, during the dabate, Obama said that he will not be being advised by Ayers on any " major " issues in the white house. Does that mean he will be advising him on the minor issues? You can say that your are dissecting words, but in this race that is exactly what we have had to do to get to the core meaning of anyhting that Obama has proposed. That would include his bogus tax plan!!!!! The people that he has chosen to associate himself with, unveils a HUGE charactor flaw!!!

Isn't it amazing that the only dirt that people can come up with on McCain and Palin is her wardrobe? Now that's desperate, it shows how clean their campaign is... I love it! First of all that was not Sarah's doings, but she did need clothes and all of them are being donated to CHARITY after this campaign. Dig a little deeper people! Oh by the way did anyone see how much Mrs. Obama spent on one luncheon? That would be $447.39, in which none of that went to charity.

I never said that " you are defending the attackers of 911" , I said " do you defend the attackers of 911"? Which is a very reasonable question after what you said about Ayers "not" being a terrorist.

The difference between Sarah's wardrobe and Michelle's lunch is that Michelle paid for her own lunch. I think if my hubby were just about to become POTUS I might splurge on lunch too! By the way, this business about the $150,000 outlay for Sarah's wardrobe -- any designer would leap at the chance to showcase their clothes on her for free. Something just doesn't add up here.

There is no evidence that I have found to prove that Michelle purchased her own lunch, but if you can produce some, I'd be more then happy to recant my statement. But, if infact she did purchase her own, that just substantiates the mind set that the Obama's are fully equipped to make a feeble attempt to buy this election! Though it will not happen, because there are still a few core American people left, that will not allow this attempt to prevail! Of course it doesn't take her purchasing an expensive meal to know that the Obama's are wealthy. It just sheds a little more light on the situation for the people who may not be so aware. Before I get ridiculed for saying that they are wealthy, let me make myself clear. It is wonderful that they are so fortunate, McCain is aswell, but my point would be that the McCain's are not using that to their advantage in this campaign. Let me reiterate I said "mind set". Things appear to be very shady on the democrat side of things, such as: A pizza parlor offering free pizzas for McCain signs. I'm not stereotyping democrats, but my sign along with many many others have been stolen. Myself with many other republicans would not think of doing that to anyone. Come on if you people don't think that Obama can win fairly, did you ever think that maybe he has no business being the leader of our country? With the way the BIAS media and the BIAS left wings have been during this race, it will be very evident that when McCain gets in regardless, he is More then qualified!!!! Oh... and Obama wasn't even close to qualified!

This whole page of comments is just crazy! What does any of this stuff have to do with who is the next President? Who cares who pays for whos lunch? Or a massive amount of clothes? . Which still has nothing to do with the election. And the religious comments are simply out of hand and have no place in this comment section. And another thing, how do you people know so much about all this stuff? Lunches, wardrobes, how much is spent. I take it those of you that know, are all close ,personal friends? Some of you people really need to chill out!

Know one has forced you to come on here and read these, all you have to do is click on the X. :)

MollySue - RFLMAO - Are you serious? What's the weather like in your world?

If you would be so kind as to elaberate, then I could.

Blaspheme? I quoted scripture. Word for word. I even showed you where to find the verses quoted. Which bible are you reading?

Also, those of you that think Palin is a fine upstanding woman need to read this tidbit:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/a-disrespect-fo.html

The bxtch appouinted a childhood friend to lead the Alaskan Dept of Agriculture because she liked cows as a kid and appointed 16 of her largest supporters (or their family members) to public office. She also extended gvt subsidised business loans to large contributors of her campaign... For businesses with questionable public value.

As for "spreading the wealth"

Do you want your f'ing grandma to go cold this winter?

"Yes i most certainly do. Why? Because he did drugs"

Do you care that Bush is a cokehead?

"You ask how we know what God wants... well read the Bible"

I have. I was raised Catholic. I have a VERY firm understanding.

I even went so far as to ask you folks about how I should handle some situations using the bible for guidance and cited which verse in the bible each came from... And was told that I am blaspheming? You people are really quite close minded. YOU need to read the bible. Toss out the King James version, too. Some King dictating changes to a holy book to suite his wants and needs hardly strikes me as the "will of god"

"maybe then you will believe in a hire power..."

I already do. I hire CMP to give me electricity...

"maybe then you will believe in a hire power..."

I already do. I hire CMP to give me electricity...

"maybe then you will believe in a hire power..."

I already do. I hire CMP to give me electricity...

"Why do we get sworn in on the Bible? We swear on the Bible in court."

Umm, no. You raise your right hand. If you choose to be sworn in on a book it could be "war and peace" or the "Koran"

Uneducated, at best.

"If he is infact a cerial rapist then he doesn't have God in the first place, but if he was a cerial rapist and earnestly asked Jesus to forgive him, then yes he is okay on his deathbed with Jesus."

Nah. I think Jesus likes his Cornflakes sans manjuice. He'd send anyone willing to rape a box of cerial straight to hell.

"I would love to think that you would give the Bible and Jesus a chance as well.... something that you do not believe in. "

Can't speak for the dude that you directed this at, but I already have. For 18 years.

Then I decided that I don't need a man in the sky scaring me into being a decent person. I can do it on my own.

Also, marraige in the eyes of the law is just like a business partnership. If it is against your religion for gays to marry, then your church shouldn't marry them. Simple as that. But religion should be SEPARATE from gvt.

Jesus speaks on Social Services:

Mathew 25

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

"I'd also like to know what the scientific explaination is for the rainbow"

Ever heard of a prism?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/rainbow.htm

"'m raising my child to know Jesus and Love him with all her heart, and I'm teaching her to have her own personal relationship with him"

Not me. I'm raising my little boy to be free thinking and listen to reason. I'm teaching him to draw his own educaded conclusions and to take all new information with an open mind. I'm teaching him to be respectful off all walks of life.

But I am leaving his spiritual beliefs to him and him alone. If there is a god, it would mean more to him that my little boy came to know him on his own terms, not because he was spoonfed fire and brimstone based fear.

I personally do not believe in god the way that most christians do and question the exsitance of any deity, but will love by child the same no matter what he chooses to believe.

"swann2001 good observation it isn't president bush's fault 911 happened we had to fight this war not many things in this world scare me but barrack obabma does concerned15 youre probably right we won't agree on anything"

No, but it's his fault that we didn't focus on Afganastan (taliban headquaters) and instead ordered reports falsified so we could attack Iraq to "protect oil interests" while claiming WMD's

The @&*%&#er is wasting billions a month on a country that already owes us money and has a budget surplus, but it's not OK to help out the people at home that need help?

Pesky little things, facts. Not that it matters, because the fundi's generally ignore them.

You really should not try to use the Bible as a weapon if you don't even believe in it, not real affective! There is no probelm with basic social services for the people who really need it. Unfortunately their are to many people who are LAZY and would rather mooch off the hard working American! If it was only the people out there who truley needed these services, benifited from them, It wouldn't be an issue to increase them. The system is and has been abused for to long! There needs to be less handouts and force people to get off their lazy backsides and work! What we work for, no one has any business taking it from us and giving it away! That is OUTRAGEOUS!

if barrack obama gets in we won't have to worry about afghanistan or iraq or russia because we won't have a military because obama wants to disarm our military. he's already stated hed stand behind pakistan if it came down to it. and has everyone forgotten how many of the terrorists we've gotten since being in iraq? why won't anyone cut our military people a break? they're their because the commander and chief sent them their and they swore an oath to do whatever pres bush said. heaven help us they'll have to do the same if obama were to get elected the world's problems are not pres bush's fault

By the way, it is helping the people at home when they are safe!!! Heaven forbid if Obama gets in... we won't have to worry about our economy, that will be the least of our problems!!

I don't need to believe that a book is true to understand it.

I don't believe that a hairy footed midget saved the world from an evil wizard and an army of orcs.I understand the books, and the underlying themes.

I was taught about god and jesus and the bible from birth. I was a member of the church youth groups, including a bible study group. I understand the bible, do you? How are the verses that I note even open to interperetation? I am uncertian which version you have, but here are the exsact verses... Word for word, from almost every version, of a few choice passages that I had noted above.

Exodus 21:7 says I can sell my daughter into slavery.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

"If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

"Whenever a man sells his daughter into slavery, she will not go free the way male slaves do.

King James Bible

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

American King James Version

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

American Standard Version

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do.

Bible in Basic English

And if a man gives his daughter for a price to be a servant, she is not to go away free as the men-servants do.

Douay-Rheims Bible

If any man sell his daughter to be a servant, she shall not go out as bondwomen are wont to go out.

Darby Bible Translation

And if a man shall sell his daughter as a handmaid, she shall not go out as the bondmen go out.

English Revised Version

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

Webster's Bible Translation

And if a man shall sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not depart as the men-servants do.

World English Bible

"If a man sells his daughter to be a female servant, she shall not go out as the male servants do.

Young's Literal Translation

'And when a man selleth his daughter for a handmaid, she doth not go out according to the going out of the men-servants;

Geneva Study Bible

And if a man {f} sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

(f) Forced either by poverty, or else with the intent that the master should marry her.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

Ex 21:7-36. Laws for Maidservants.

7-11. if a man sell his daughter-Hebrew girls might be redeemed for a reasonable sum. But in the event of her parents or friends being unable to pay the redemption money, her owner was not at liberty to sell her elsewhere. Should she have been betrothed to him or his son, and either change their minds, a maintenance must be provided for her suitable to her condition as his intended wife, or her freedom instantly granted.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

21:1-11 The laws in this chapter relate to the fifth and sixth commandments; and though they differ from our times and customs, nor are they binding on us, yet they explain the moral law, and the rules of natural justice. The servant, in the state of servitude, was an emblem of that state of bondage to sin, Satan, and the law, which man is brought into by robbing God of his glory, by the transgression of his precepts. Likewise in being made free, he was an emblem of that liberty wherewith Christ, the Son of God, makes free from bondage his people, who are free indeed; and made so freely, without money and without price, of free grace.

Exodus 35:2 says work on the sabbath and die

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

You may work for six days, but the seventh day is a holy day of worship, a day when you don't work. It is dedicated to the LORD. Whoever does any work on this day should be put to death.

King James Bible

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

American King James Version

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whoever does work therein shall be put to death.

American Standard Version

Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of solemn rest to Jehovah: whosoever doeth any work therein shall be put to death.

Bible in Basic English

Six days let work be done, but the seventh day is to be a holy day to you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord; whoever does any work on that day is to be put to death.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Six days you shall do work: the seventh day shall be holy unto you, the sabbath, and the rest of the Lord: he that shall do any work on it, shall be put to death.

Darby Bible Translation

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of rest to Jehovah: whoever does work on it shall be put to death.

English Revised Version

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of solemn rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work therein shall be put to death.

Webster's Bible Translation

Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whoever doth work therein shall be put to death.

World English Bible

'Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of solemn rest to Yahweh: whoever does any work in it shall be put to death.

Young's Literal Translation

Six days is work done, and on the seventh day there is to you a holy day, a sabbath of rest to Jehovah; any who doeth work in it is put to death;

Geneva Study Bible

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Wesley's Notes

35:2 Six days shall work be done - Work for the tabernacle, but on the seventh day - You must not strike a stroke, no not at the tabernacle - work; the honour of the sabbath was above that of the sanctuary.

King James Translators' Notes

an...: Heb. holiness

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

35:1-3 The mild and easy yoke of Christ has made our sabbath duties more delightful, and our sabbath restraints less irksome, than those of the Jews; but we are the more guilty by neglecting them. Surely God's wisdom in giving us the sabbath, with all the mercy of its purposes, are sinfully disregarded. Is it nothing to pour contempt upon the blessed day, which a bounteous God has given to us for our growth in grace with the church below, and to prepare us for happiness with the church above?

Lev 20:14 says to burn all three alive if a dude hooks up with a chick and her mom. All those mother/daughter pornos have it coming!

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

When a man marries a woman and her mother, they have done a perverted thing. The man and the two women must be burned. Never do this perverted thing.

King James Bible

And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

American King James Version

And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

American Standard Version

And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

Bible in Basic English

And if a man takes as wife a woman and her mother, it is an act of shame; let them be burned with fire, all three of them, so that there may be no shame among you.

Douay-Rheims Bible

If any man after marrying the daughter, marry her mother, he hath done a heinous crime: he shall be burnt alive with them: neither shall so great an abomination remain in the midst of you.

Darby Bible Translation

And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is infamy: they shall burn him and them with fire, that there be no infamy among you.

English Revised Version

And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

Webster's Bible Translation

And if a man shall take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they: that there be no wickedness among you.

World English Bible

"'If a man takes a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burned with fire, both he and they; that there may be no wickedness among you.

Young's Literal Translation

And a man who taketh the woman and her mother -- it is wickedness; with fire they burn him and them, and there is no wickedness in your midst.

Geneva Study Bible

And if a man take a wife and her mother, {f} it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

(f) It is an abominable and detestable thing.

Wesley's Notes

20:14 They - All who consented to it.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

20:10-27 These verses repeat what had been said before, but it was needful there should be line upon line. What praises we owe to God that he has taught the evil of sin, and the sure way of deliverance from it! May we have grace to adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things; may we have no fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness, but reprove them.

Enlighten me as to how I am a blasphemer? How am I not correct?

Could it be that you simply can't handle hearing things that you don't like?

Hey glorfysgal,

I don't need to cut them a break. I eat sunday dinner with a Command Sergeant Major and a Master Sergeant that both oppose this war. Not their men, the war. Same as I.

As for terrorists. Guess what we've done as a nation.

The United States, a terrorist nation?

That may seem like an odd statement to many, maybe even lunatic. It may seem treasonous, perhaps even blasphemous. But it is, unfortunately, one of those painfully obvious truths that, as a nation, we rarely allow ourselves to understand. And, just as obvious, is the fact that we will continue to suffer the terrorist attacks of others until we come to terms with this.

There is no one widely accepted definition of terrorism, though I suspect many would agree that the core of the concept involves the intentional killing of civilians or military personnel to effect political change, outside the widely accepted conventions of warfare and international law.

In reality, the term is used in the United States with a footnote: Terrorism is that kind of killing, unless it is the United States pulling the trigger.

So, the bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania are quite rightly labeled terrorist attacks and, quite rightly, condemned. But our retaliatory attacks on a base in Afghanistan and a factory in Sudan are widely viewed here as heroic acts. Yet in legal terms, both sets of attacks are clearly outside international law. No matter how much administration officials obfuscate that reality, the U.S. cruise missile attacks were illegal under the UN charter, which allows for military action only in self-defense against an armed attack before the Security Council has a chance to act. The United States didn't even go through the motions of seeking Security Council action, as the charter requires in cases such as this. The administration's claim that this act of "self-defense" conforms to the UN charter is laughable, though widely accepted.

This is nothing new in U.S. history, especially in the post-World War II era. When the UN and international law are useful in pursuing policy, we are happy to use them. When they become annoyances that stand in the way of policy, we ignore them.

In its attack on South Vietnam, the United States bombed civilians, drenched the country in chemicals to destroy crops, and engaged in terrorist counterinsurgency campaigns to eliminate political opposition. Three different administrations engaged in these blatant violations of international law.

When the World Court handed down a judgment in 1986 that the United States had violated international law in its support of the contra's terrorist attack on Nicaragua, the Reagan administration simply refused to acknowledge the court's jurisdiction.

When the Bush administration planned the illegal invasion of Panama to arrest its dictator (and former CIA employee) Manuel Noriega in 1989, they felt the need to call it "Operation Just Cause" in a vain attempt to hide the obvious. Two years later in the Gulf War, the Bush administration pushed the violations of international law to even more murderous levels with the indiscriminate bombing of civilians areas, willful destruction of civilian infrastructure, and killing of retreating soldiers in Iraq.

The Clinton administration, first with its illegal missile attack on Iraq in 1993 and now with the most recent strikes, is the most recent U.S. regime to join this hall of shame.

The list could go on and on, covering U.S. overt and covert actions in Latin America, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East. And that's before we get to the actions of client regimes and private terror armies that have been backed by the United States.

In the debate this past summer over the configuration of an international criminal court, the United States repeatedly defended its opposition to a strong court by saying it did not want its military personnel hauled in front of such a court on "frivolous charges." The victims of past U.S. terrorism can easily attest to the fact that our sins are hardly frivolous.

None of these remarks, of course, should be taken as support of or rationalizations for terrorist acts committed by other nations or individuals. Nor is it an attack on the front-line military personnel who fought in these conflicts. I want only to suggest that if our actions in the world are to have any moral force, consistent application of international law to our own actions is a minimal requirement.

Jensen is a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin. He can be reached at rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu

We are acting with the same self intitled attitude as the Nazi's. I see it as a matter of time before the crazy christion extremists start doing to Muslims what Nazi's did to Jews.

Don't get me wrong, there are countless good christion people. My point is that when you bring God into war, nothing good comes of it.

Much like fear mongering and politics.

I can't wait until Obama takes the election, landslide style, and actually starts to turn this nation around. But, even then, some of the wackos on here would fail to see.

Just what is the war doing to keep us safe? It is taking much needed resources with no benefit. We haven't reduced global terror strikes. We are over-extending our military as it is. There is no way we could defent our homeland in the event of a mass invasion force.

What if China decided to knock on the presidents door with an army of 2 million to collect on what we owe them for this war?

Thats right, Bush gave the mortgage for the United States to "Commies." According to Ron Paul, a member of the house banking committee, we owe China about 2 & 1/2 trillion American dollars as of Jan 2008.

You people don't even know what you support.

it isn't pres bush's fault we had to go to war and i emphasize HAD. the terrorists came over and crashed 4 of our planes into buildings they knew had thousands of people in them. what were we supposed to do sit there and wait for the terrorists to come over here so we wouldn't have to look bad for going over there? that's an insane idea if you ask me no america is not the greatest country in the world it used to be but it's not know but it most certainly is not a terrorist nation.

Ron Paul... Oh well that explains it!

You state that you can be a decent person on your own, but by the perversion within your comments suggests that maybe you should give God another shot!.

Just to elaborate on your comment about Bush ordering falsified reports, so that we could go to Iraq to protect oil interests. Maybe you need to visit the "no spin zone". The information about YellowCake Uranium came from Valerie Plaim and her husband Joe Wilson, and yes they were falsified. George W Bush had nothing to do with those documents, and we don't even get our Oil from Iraq, so I guess the "interest" there was not for the oil.

( peski little things, facts)

Are you a Jew? Do you abide by the jewish law, because everything that you quote come from the old Jewish law. Jesus himself worked on the sabbath and he healed on the Sabbath, which was considerd work. He says my father worketh hither to, and I work. You will find that in the book of John chapter 5, verse 17. In John 5 verses 8 - 9 you'll find that he healed on the sabbath.

Homosexuality has always been with us even from the begining. If you will read Genisis 19: 1-13 you'll notice that they didn't ask for repentice. Notice that it wasn't exeptable to God ,( he destroyed the city for it). And it is not exeptable to him now! If you know and understand your Bible lilke you claim to, then you know that Jesus came because no one could live up to the letter of the law. He provided a way called MERCY, a quality the "law" does not offer. By the way you can back this up by reading Romans chapter 8 verse 2 & 3.

If you read the Bible to study it and belive in it, rather then to read it to find falsehoods, you would find a much bigger meaning to lfe.

I, for one, will be elated beyond all reaches, when the elections are over. I am sick of listening to both sides telling me I am Stupid and out of touch with reality if I do not opt to vote for their party. I am sick of the Party Line. After the Election, the party demanding Impeachment changes, the ones demanding it now will change to the other Party demanding Impeachment right now. For Heavens Sake, Don't allow the Government to preceed as it was intended. After all, that might even be the best for the American Citizen. I am retired Navy and I will vote for anybody but incumbents. I am tired of too many Special Interest Groups running the Country. Mostly Republicans who are only interested in lining their own pockets. Remenber those famous words " Ignore the Media, Think for Yourself"

You can't blame it all on one side. I know people who are Republicans such as myself and we aren't rolling around in money. On the other side i know democrats who have more money then they know what to do with. What does it matter? I'm tired of people voting for their pocket books. I care more about the moral issues because those are what's going to make or break our country.

Insane Preacher you are my new hero!!!

"it isn't pres bush's fault we had to go to war and i emphasize HAD. the terrorists came over and crashed 4 of our planes into buildings they knew had thousands of people in them. what were we supposed to do sit there and wait for the terrorists to come over here so we wouldn't have to look bad for going over there?"

So, we were attacked by people based in Afganastan (sp) and we HAD to go shoot up Iraq?

We HAD to falsify reports to make it look like a good idea to go there?

Please get out and read a little before you go thinking that we HAD to go to war in Iraq. the "Badguys" were in Afganastan (sp) all along, but we didn't even make a move on them for months.

"everything that you quote come from the old Jewish law"

It's all in the same bible. The christians didn't toss the Old Testament the last time I checked. Did you infallible god just go and change his mind?

Is your perfect god not perfect?

"You can't blame it all on one side."

Sure we can. We had 7 years of a Republican Congress and President. Then 1 year with a Democratic Congress and Republican President.

During the first seven years the federal deficit doubled. During the first 7 years there was a huge deregulation of business that went on.

Now we are %^@*&ed because the regulations that were in place to stop this shit from happening were stripped and our deficit is so huge we will never see the end of it.

CHINA OWNS AMERICA

Also, here is the character displayed by Palin:

* More than 100 appointments to state posts -- nearly 1 in 4 -- went to campaign contributors or their relatives, sometimes without apparent regard to qualifications.

* Palin filled 16 state offices with appointees from families that donated $2,000 to $5,600 and were among her top political patrons.

* Several of Palin's leading campaign donors received state-subsidized industrial development loans of up to $3.6 million for business ventures of questionable public value.

* Palin picked a donor to replace the public safety commissioner she fired. But the new top cop had to resign days later under an ethics cloud. And Palin drew a formal ethics complaint still pending against her and several aides for allegedly helping another donor and fundraiser land a state job.

URL: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinrecords24-2008oct24,0,6683728.story

On top of being found guilty for troopergate. This bitch abuses government powers for her own personal gain.

Is this the person you want a heartbeat away from the oval office?

Man, insanepreacher, I was really digging you until you used the 'b' word. Shucks.

Oh, how is it downeast this time of year? Must be quiet.