Taxes versus health care
10/23/08 | 30 comments
Question 1: People's Veto

Taxes versus health care


Question 1: People's Veto
By Abigail Curtis
BDN Staff
PHOTO ILLUSTRATION BY KEVIN BENNETT

As Maine goes, so goes the nation? The state’s former reputation as a national bellwether is no doubt on the minds of those who both support and oppose Question 1 on the November ballot.

If the referendum passes on Nov. 4, it would overturn a recently-enacted law that levies a tax on soda, beer and wine to help pay for and expand Maine’s DirigoChoice health insurance programs.

Opponents of the referendum say Mainers will pay just a penny more for a glass of wine and four cents for a can of soda. Supporters say the ultimate costs will be much higher, and Mainers shouldn’t have their beverages taxed to pay for the health programs.

“Through this veto, we’re giving Maine people the opportunity to have their say on these new taxes,” said Leslie Thistle, owner of Bangor Cheese & Wine and Cafe Nouveau and a Question 1 proponent.

But many who support Question 1 aren’t as local as the Bangor businesswoman. National beverage companies including the Pepsi and Coca-Cola bottling companies and Anheuser-Busch donated $1.5 million between July and September of this year to help overturn the new tax.

All the national attention is because Maine’s law has significance beyond its borders, according to the director of the Washington, D.C., think tank the Center for Science in the Public Interest.

“There are about a dozen states that have soda taxes,” said Michael Jacobson, director of the center. “But I don’t know of any other state that’s using revenues to promote health.”

Jacobson said he thinks the soda companies have targeted Maine because of the law’s significance.

“Maybe for them, Maine is good practice,” he said. “The next time a state or Congress tries levying a tax on soda, they’ll be ready with their arguments.”

The law that Question 1 seeks to overturn involves more than taxing soda and other beverages of choice, although that is where much of the attention has gone.

Before the new law was passed in April, the state’s roughly $50 million DirigoChoice programs were funded by the unpredictable and unpopular Savings Offset Program. The program has taxed health insurers since 2003 on the state’s estimated cost savings thanks to the Dirigo programs.

It has been replaced by a 1.8 percent surcharge on health insurance claims, which should generate $33 million in 2009, and the new excise tax on beer, wine, soda and other sugary beverages that the state estimates will raise about $17 million.

Officials from the Maine Medical Association who are fighting Question 1 recently said that if they could frame the referendum as a health care matter, they would win, but if it is framed as a tax matter, they will lose.

“From a physician’s standpoint, it’s a win-win tax,” said Gordon Smith, vice president of the Maine Medical Association. “These products, along with tobacco, should be taxed. They contribute to obesity, diabetes and high health care costs.”

But that’s not what those working to overturn the tax think.

Fed Up With Taxes, the political action committee that gathered enough signatures to get Question 1 on the ballot, has funded an economic study that shows the tax would have a sharply different impact than previously expected.

University of Maine economist Todd Gabe estimated that every Mainer drinks 52 gallons of soda, sports drinks and other taxable beverages each year — a higher figure than the one used by the state. Using those figures, Mainers would pay about $40 million in additional taxes.

According to Gabe’s figures, the higher figure would lead to a statewide reduction in sales revenue of $26 million per year and the loss of 395 part-time jobs.

“I think that far more people will be harmed than will be helped under the proposal,” said Kristine Ossenfort at the Maine State Chamber of Commerce.

Thistle said her Bangor businesses are already threatened by the imploding economy.

“People will buy less,” Thistle said. “I’m in the business of want, not need. It has an impact.”

Thistle also was one of the first proponents of Question 1 and said that tax hikes, however slight, have real impacts on real Mainers.

“Enough is enough,” Thistle said. “We don’t need anymore taxes right now. What we need is help.”

Opponents of Question 1 agree with Thistle that the tax would have a real impact on Mainers.

Dr. Stephanie Lash of Bangor, the president of the Maine Medical Association, said funding health care is important even in tough economic times.

“One of the best investments we can make to keep the state strong and vibrant is, literally, to keep the state healthy,” she said.

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Comments
30 comments on this item
On 10/23/08 at 4:53 AM, mrclam wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

If someone doesn't have health insurance, the hospitals still have to treat them. When they don't pay their bill,you and I pay it in higher rates. It is also difficult to imagine that these same people don't have enough money to visit a doctor once in awhile. There are many reduced rate medical clinics in the state. Furthermore, if they are truly needy and can't afford healthcare, the Mainecare, or Medicaid, program will give them 100% FREE health care. The Dirigo model has far too few enrollees to be an efficient model. In insurance there is a rule called "the law of large numbers"; it means without a large number of people to spread the risk across, the plan cannot function in a proper and representative manner. Dirigo should be shut down. Any people on Dirigo who can qualify for Mainecare should be on Mainecare. The other people can get free healthcare by showing up at the emergency room where they cannot be legally denied the same level of service that everyone else gets. Until the state finds a way to socialize the whole medical establishment in the state, this nibbling around the edges is both costly and unproductive.

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On 10/23/08 at 6:40 AM, kylie00 wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

ok shut down dirigo and every other tax dollar health care. If my tax dollar goes torwards their salary and part of the contract is health insurance then make that person pay for it in fill. That would include ALL state workers and town employees and of course all the over paid teachers. Oh and don`t forget the welfare system boot them off to. why shoukd I help these people. Boy doesn`t that sound dumb, the enrollees in dirigo are at least paying somthing out of their pockets torwards the premium. But let`s put them on mainecare and burden the entire bill on the tax payer. the state force a $30,000 salary for first year teachers on the towns (not bad for a non proven person) and we didn`t here this kind of bitching but tax our booze and all hell breaks loose.

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On 10/23/08 at 6:42 AM, Govt2Big wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Please vote YES on #1!

This people's veto isn't just about taxes vs. health care, this is about our state's excessive spending habits and a poorly run government! Sure, the failing Dirigo Plan is a pet project for Gov. Baldacci, but it has also been full of false expectations and gross lies to us taxpayers. Enough is enough! It's time for the pro-Baldacci and pro-socialism crowd to get a LOUD AND CLEAR message to reduce their spending. It's time for some drastic cuts to get our state back on track.

Remember, vote YES on #1 to Reject the new Beverage Tax!

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On 10/23/08 at 6:45 AM, anne_of_mdi wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

I would like to remind people that the millions of us who are uninsured pay full freight on their health care costs. We are certainly not getting health care for free! whereas everyone else who is insured, whether it is privately or through Mainecare or Medicare, is paying "negotiated" rates. That is one of the reasons that health care costs are so high. Providers have to keep hiking up the rates so they aren't losing money due to insurers half- to two-thirds payments.

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On 10/23/08 at 6:46 AM, Govt2Big wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Good point, kylie00. If Dirigo is so good and must continue, all state employees and legislators should be kicked off their current cadillac plan and pushed over to Dirigo...but you know the union won't support that. It's time for these games to stop, as this state is just wasting way too much of our tax dollars each and every day...and now we have access to that info by www.maineopengov.com (I think that's it)

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On 10/23/08 at 6:48 AM, Govt2Big wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Just take a look at the Dirigo budget numbers at http://www.maineopengov.org

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On 10/23/08 at 6:52 AM, Thinkaboutit wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Let me try to make this a little more simple to understand. There are 18000 members signed up for Dirigo right now...each are paying $2700 a year in premiums to be a member..if they use any of their benefits they will be taxed another 1.8% on top of the $2700...if question 1 passes Dirigo will add 75 million dollars to fund these 18000 members.Better yet..we could take those 18000 members and make them multimillioniars..Something doesn't add up here....could be the hospitals and private physians are way over charging their clients. If you want to make health care affordable then you need to attack them by reducing their cost of doing business. Of course the Maine Medical Association wants this to pass ---- IT'S ALL GOING IN THEIR BACK POCKET ---- This was a stupid idea to begin with...especially when it was passed at 4 in the morning AND WITHOUT THE CITIZENS' OF MAINE VOICING THEIR OPINION...It is critical that every voter in Maine votes --- YES ----on Question 1...Maine people can not afford any more new taxes...Think of it this way..We will all be paying for some else health insurance where most Mainer's will not be enrolled or will not be eligible. This poor program will not make Mainers' any more healthier....just a whole lot poorer!!!

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On 10/23/08 at 7:55 AM, cheeta wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Let me try to understand this. I am reading that many want to do away with Dirigo for which 18,000 members are paying a premium for their health insurance that will allow them to have primary care. Primary care is without a doubt far less expensive than utlization of emergency rooms. Explain to me how we are going to save money by eliminating this program and forcing these people to either go on Maine Care or no health insurance at all. At least with this new tax, those that are getting "free care" will be required to pay something. If you are opposed to the tax, don't buy the product and do us all a favor by staying healthy.

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On 10/23/08 at 8:27 AM, barbra wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Half of the people on Dirigo dropped their more expensive private insurances such as Blue Cross to buy the cheaper (tax payer assisted) Dirigo, just as wealthy people did in Hawaii. Why should my tax dollars help pay insurance for a family that owns a very profitable Bar Harbor hotel? why not offer ALL people in Maine the opportunity to buy into the State health care plan, which is a large pool, and base their monthly premiums on income and assets??

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On 10/23/08 at 8:32 AM, anne_of_mdi wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Obama's plan is to offer the same plan that congressional representatives and senators have to everyone.

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On 10/23/08 at 8:40 AM, SteveCB wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

The state was wrong about the number of people who would sign up for Dirigo. The state was wrong about the cost of Dirigo. The state was wrong about the annual cost of negotiating the Savings Offset Program with health insurers. What in God's name makes people think the state is the answer to the health care problem?

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On 10/23/08 at 9:29 AM, DavidH wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

The proponents say we are cover 18000 folks with this folley. The detractors say 11,000 are covered. Somebody doesn't even know how to count. I asked a state rep why the savings number was decreasing when the number of folks covered had increased and the answer was that the program was getting the wrong mix of people. Apparently Dirigo Health was getting a larger number of people who had been covered by a health plan. Something broken there. The Dirigo Health commission says the state saves over a 100million dollars anually but, when the insuance commisionar's office looks at it the savings figure is closer to 45 million. Something broke there too. It has gotten to the point where the taxpayer is saying enough is enough no matter how noble your cause. We the message resonate in Augusta. Stay tuned and hold on to you wallet.

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On 10/23/08 at 9:40 AM, searoses wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

the last time I went to the doctor it cost me 100.00 for a 15 minute visit...and the doctor never touched me....I don't have insurance and I can't get maine care or anything else because we have a modest 401k ....my husband is retired...or so called he works 2 jobs and get a pension...so we can make ends meet...

I could have insurance through his pension plan but it's over 800.00 a month and that's almost the whole pension....I don't want anyone to give me the world just a little help...

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On 10/23/08 at 9:42 AM, barbra wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

SOCIALISM, MARXISM, COMMUNISUM DON'T BELONG IN AMERICA. Goverment (state or federal) does not belong in charge/control of healthcare period. And that covers many related issues-abortion, smoking in YOUR car (or home-that would be next), delegating what food can be served by restaurants(now law in California!!) We need LESS goverment, less goverment spending, and less goverment control of our own destinies. I can understand why highly intelligent people drop out of "the system" to be street people or cruise the world on a 20 foot sailboat.

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On 10/23/08 at 10:09 AM, JWBooth wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Let's call Dirigo what it is: Welfare for physicians

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On 10/23/08 at 11:08 AM, rock wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

WE NEED TO SEND THE MESSAGE THAT THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER SOLUTION OTHER THAN NEW TAXES. TO ME THAT IS ALL A YES VOTE IS.

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On 10/23/08 at 11:35 AM, Tikitorch wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

anne_of_mdi I am not sure what hospital you work for but any hospital I have dealt with DOES a sliding scale by your income... and they take in other factors such as # of children etc. I have parents that are self employed and this works out great for them... because they can't afford anything besides their catastrophic type health insurance... It is affordable this way... Some people just don't know to ask about these things OR when the bills come in and the calls from the billing dept, they ignore them.... If they talked to people at the facilities they would be able to find this out. The tax isn't just on booze, it is on soda, bottled juice etc.. most everything you pay a 5c dep on now... including flavored water from what I have read.... Who do you think drinks most of the soda??? The poor drink more soda than anyone... because it is cheap!!! So in essessence they will be paying more of this tax to Dirigo than the avg person.... IT just does not make sense....... There are other ways to fund programs without taxing the state to death. Health insurance is not a right, it is an opportunity.... Access to healthcare is more of the right. We all have to pay for it one way or another, thru our jobs etc... Why should the hardworking people of this state have to keep funding programs for the people who can't afford it or just plain don't work??? I can't afford many things that I would like/love to have, but alas.. I have to live within my means.... It is not the job of the middle class or even the small group of upper class to take care of EVERYONE in this state, I keep hearing the phrase SHARE THE WEALTH... what ever happened to earning it the old fashioned way?? EARINING IT????? Our founders would faint if they knew how this country was being run!!

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On 10/23/08 at 11:35 AM, mariahstorm wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Hurray!!! Thank you Abigail, for being upfront and honest in this true journalism!!!! Your are so correct in your editorial!!! Do you know i have asked several POLITICAL people within this state to tell me where the Apple/potatoe monies and toll monies, and 'lottery' monies are going to... and they turn and look away or refuse to answer an email.... this is democracy???? it is communisim!!! Beware! VOTE YES ON ONE, TO REPEAL THE TAX LAW!!!

Vote NO on questions 2 - 3 !!!!!! GOD BLESS the true Americans!!!! Maine's Dirigo Program did not work!!!! Nor has their Oil Donkey program!!!!

Why is their no oil money to feed the LIHEAP Program???? Why is there no money for the WEATHERIZATION Programs.... where do we find legitimate GRANTS to help ourselves?????? Why is this not Public Information????? I was told the weatherization program is a year long wait yet i applied last year and was denied??? hmmm sounds like orders from washington to me!!!!!

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On 10/23/08 at 11:35 AM, ClaireC wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

ANY form of health insurance is communistic -- you are pooling resources in a group so that when one member of the group needs help, the money is paid out of the pool. Private health insurance takes the healthiest and richest ("cherry-picks") so that the likelihood of money being paid out is lower. At the same time, they use their political clout to lower prices to them and no one else.

If you want true free-market health care, get rid of the insurance companies and just have people pay full price when they go to the doctor. That's what most of the uninsured have to do. In fact, the uninsured usually have to pay much more when they visit the doctor -- they are underwriting the discounts given by health care providers to the insured.

The upper income folks are taken care of by the insurance companies. The truly poor get taken care of by the state, or by the hospitals who must do so by law, and shift the costs onto the uninsured (the insured are protected by their collective bargaining agreements. It's the barely-scraping along folks in the middle who pay the most and receive the least. They are the ones Dirigo was designed to help (whether it does so is a different discussion).

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On 10/23/08 at 11:36 AM, LarrySG wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

The corporations and individuals who oppose this small tax just don't care about anyone but themselves, they would probably let their own mother starve, cheap thieves. They make Ebenezer Scrooge look like an Eagle Scout! They have no shame, their only concern is to stuff money in their pockets, to heck with everyone else.

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On 10/23/08 at 2:08 PM, beresponsible wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

To Larry SG you must make a hell of allot more money than I do... or maybe you are a saint. I make a blue collar annual wage of 14500.00 a year. I pay 1600.00 a year for health care for my daughter and my self. Let’s not forget I live in one of the most highly taxed states which is appropriately named "Vacation Land". The only people that can afford to stay here are the out of staters. I am broke and starving. I get no public assistance at all. None what so ever. My back is broke from paying for others to lie around and breed. I am 30 years old. I am tired of paying for every one else. I don’t mind paying for the elderly because they have paid their share in government programs that have turned their back on them such as the JOKE Social Security System. I say every one stop looking for the hand outs. People are so worried about getting something for nothing. Look at all the looser at the METHADONE clinics. I pay for that. Look at the welfare whores that fill there shopping carts with groceries or sell there welfare card at the methadone clinic. There is so much abuse of these programs because there is no way to monitor it. If you cant suport them dont have them. There are no mistakes. We allow people to breed and have children on our system so they can collect checks. I had to pass a piss test to get my job, do you have to pass one to get free healthcare,welfare,foodstamps,heating assistance? I didnt think so. I say every one stop paying!! Stop your voting in this democracy!! You are voting for the lesser of the evils. Judgment day will come. I am fending for my self and will continue. I will survive. I am raising a child that will be able to take care of her self. I will never be able to afford Dirigo Health Care. I dont beleive there are to many that can. JUNK that program. I think Baldacci is getting greased by some of the others whos pockets are being lined by Dirigo. You watch and see. Untill then I will take care of mine and you take care of yours!!! That is the system we should be looking into.

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On 10/23/08 at 3:01 PM, Tikitorch wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

beresponsible WELL PUT :-) The lazy and the healtcare industry are the only ones who will benefit from this proposed tax!!! YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT IN THE FACT US HARD WORKING BLUE COLLARS WILL BE THE ONE PAYING FOR IT AND NOT GETTING A LICK BACK.... THEY SAY WE ARE TOO GREEDY TO SHARE THE WEALTH... I HAVE EARNED EVERY PENNY I HAVE EVER RECEIVED AND CAN'T AFFORD TO SHARE ANYTHING. WE ARE BETTER THAN MOST.. WE MAKE ENDS MEET AND HAVE A LITTLE (I MEAN LITTLE) LEFT OVER EVERY MONTH TO SAVE... PAY YOURSELF FIRST IS WHAT SUZE ORMAN FINANCIAL GURU SAYS!!!!!!!

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On 10/23/08 at 3:06 PM, Tikitorch wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

beresponsible WELL PUT :-) The lazy and the healtcare industry are the only ones who will benefit from this proposed tax!!! YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT IN THE FACT US HARD WORKING BLUE COLLARS WILL BE THE ONE PAYING FOR IT AND NOT GETTING A LICK BACK.... THEY SAY WE ARE TOO GREEDY TO SHARE THE WEALTH... I HAVE EARNED EVERY PENNY I HAVE EVER RECEIVED AND CAN'T AFFORD TO SHARE ANYTHING. WE ARE BETTER THAN MOST.. WE MAKE ENDS MEET AND HAVE A LITTLE (I MEAN LITTLE) LEFT OVER EVERY MONTH TO SAVE... PAY YOURSELF FIRST IS WHAT SUZE ORMAN FINANCIAL GURU SAYS!!!!!!!

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On 10/23/08 at 3:06 PM, Tikitorch wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

beresponsible WELL PUT :-) The lazy and the healtcare industry are the only ones who will benefit from this proposed tax!!! YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT IN THE FACT US HARD WORKING BLUE COLLARS WILL BE THE ONE PAYING FOR IT AND NOT GETTING A LICK BACK.... THEY SAY WE ARE TOO GREEDY TO SHARE THE WEALTH... I HAVE EARNED EVERY PENNY I HAVE EVER RECEIVED AND CAN'T AFFORD TO SHARE ANYTHING. WE ARE BETTER THAN MOST.. WE MAKE ENDS MEET AND HAVE A LITTLE (I MEAN LITTLE) LEFT OVER EVERY MONTH TO SAVE... PAY YOURSELF FIRST IS WHAT SUZE ORMAN FINANCIAL GURU SAYS!!!!!!!

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On 10/23/08 at 3:06 PM, Tikitorch wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

beresponsible WELL PUT :-) The lazy and the healtcare industry are the only ones who will benefit from this proposed tax!!! YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT IN THE FACT US HARD WORKING BLUE COLLARS WILL BE THE ONE PAYING FOR IT AND NOT GETTING A LICK BACK.... THEY SAY WE ARE TOO GREEDY TO SHARE THE WEALTH... I HAVE EARNED EVERY PENNY I HAVE EVER RECEIVED AND CAN'T AFFORD TO SHARE ANYTHING. WE ARE BETTER THAN MOST.. WE MAKE ENDS MEET AND HAVE A LITTLE (I MEAN LITTLE) LEFT OVER EVERY MONTH TO SAVE... PAY YOURSELF FIRST IS WHAT SUZE ORMAN FINANCIAL GURU SAYS!!!!!!!

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On 10/23/08 at 3:39 PM, LarrySG wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

For beresponsible, I am one of the elderly and I have paid my share, I still am paying for my share and some for others. I agree that some people take advantage of the system, I would stop that in a heartbeat if there were a way to do it. I also think Dirigo could stand some improvement, by covering folks like yourself for starters - there is no reason you should be found to be not eligible. There probably are better ways to fund that program as well, but until that is addressed we must pay for it in some logical way. Some of the beverages that would be taxed lead to some of the health problems that need to be adressed.

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On 10/23/08 at 4:37 PM, anne_of_mdi wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Beresponsible, I am moved by your post. Since I have been through Mainecare, I am wondering if you've applied? I think that at your income level your child is definitely covered. I recall that they used to cover the parents too for a co-pay fee. If you haven't checked into it you should. If you have and I'm wrong about all this, my apologies.

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On 10/23/08 at 4:52 PM, SteveCB wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

A co-worker's live-in boyfriend had a bad accident resulting in over $100,000 of medical bills. He carries no health insurance, despite the fact that he owns his own business. The state and hospital picked up $80,000 of the tab and a fund-raiser added about $10,000 more. A few months later, the family (6 of them) took a vacation to Alaska. I suspect there are a lot of people in this state who choose not to pay for health insurance because they would rather spend the money on other things and have the rest of us pick up the tab when they need medical care. Maine's Department of Health and Human Service (DHHS) aids and abets these people. Try to find DHHS's Fraud Hotline - there isn't one. If you go on the DHHS website, you won't find the Fraud office on their Quick Links, in their Programs/Services, or in their Offices/Divisions. You have to go to Subject Index and dig deep to find out how to file a Fraud complaint, and DHHS doesn't provide much useful information. The fact is, DHHS is a bureaucracy. The more people they can subsidize (at our expense) the more people they can hire, the more supervisor jobs they can create, and the bigger their budget. They are part of the problem, not the solution.

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On 10/23/08 at 4:54 PM, beresponsible wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Larry SG I respect that you are an elderly person with needs. I also feel that you should have health care. I don’t think we need any more governing. I may not feel this way if the harsh reality of society hasn’t already beat me up. The reality is there is way to much governmental control on all of us. It starts at taxation with out representation. It happens every day here in this so called free country. Each state has a few morons that people like you and I vote in there. They all have there own hidden agenda. What they promise and the result are two very different things. I know when we allow the great government to tax us you are loosing a bit more control. I am taxed to death!!! It makes me want to go postal some days when I see that I have paid Uncle Sam and Medicare and Social Security more in that week than I actually have to spend on food or gas or heating oil. POSTAL!!!! If it wasn’t for the treasure of my life I just might! Alls I am saying is every vote that allows your government to tax is one more vote for a democracy. Peace to you and may god be with you.

anne_of_mdi God bless you too. I am grateful that you have compassion. It is a hard thing to find in our society. I will not look into public assistance for the simple fact that I am ready for the recession. I am ready to fend for myself. I am ready to feed my self. I am able. That is the one thing that this free country can’t take away from me. I do feel that public assistance is needed. I am not heartless. I do feel there should be a limit. Not for LIFE!!! For so many, this is a culture to be on the system. They don’t have to work; they just have more children that they can’t take care of. They are producing non-productive members of society. This drives me to no end. I feel the ones who need it could get it and not abuse if there wasn’t so many addicts, freeloaders, and lifers on the system, thank you for your suggestion. I am doing it responsibly!!! : )

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On 10/23/08 at 5:52 PM, ArtHenry wrote:         Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

If our brilliant legislators had not changed the laws back in the ‘90’s, we would still have low cost health care providers in this state, but the legislators chased them all out, I had a good one, they could/would not meet the new requirements of the state.

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