Youth Movement

Maine peoples alliance...God help us all

kids for a adult's job. no wonder maine is so screwed up-"Clean Election funds"=WELFARE

Well said, downbeat. It's like giving an alcoholic the keys to the liquor cabinet.

augusta is the liquor store and the alcohi\olics have been running it for years.

Emily Cain is a fine example of why they should increase the age requirement. These young kids are easily manipulated by lobbyists and the Administration. But this also serves as a discussion point for term limits. Term limits vacated most of these seats, but then again, term limits will dump these kids out and hopefully keep them from being John Martin's down the road.

I am all for young people is the state house, but maybe we need to add supporting a family and paying a mortgage to the requirements? These kids think they know what its like to live/work in Maine but in reality they dont have a full grasp. They are too young to have faced the real struggles of adult life. It is easy to be poor when you are in your twenties. I lived out of my car with no money when I was their age. I sure wasn't qualified to be in government. Flemming is 25 from Mass. came up here to go to COA worked in a non-profit for a couple years and now the folks of MDI thinks she understands their struggles? Her opponent has lived down there his enitre life and actually had government experience at the local level. As far as the youth of the state leaving, they are. The facts speak for themselves. There is no arguing this point. The state has been run into the ground by same party rule for 30+ years and now we have idealistic liberals headed to augusta with no real world experience. I cant believe Mainers think this is going to help. Why would they hesitate to raise my taxes? They dont pay any and they have no idea what they will be doing to working Maine families.

I think you all sound jealous. Maybe they are smarter than us for NOT having kids and a mortgage. I think it's good that young people are getting elected, now the house will look a little more like our state and less like a retirement village. Like it or not, the citizens from the towns they represent voted them in and they are the ones whose voices matter, not yours. Can't be any worse than a 60 year old straight privileged man representing poor people. Get over it and stop being so damn petty -- you all sound more juvinile than those you are complaining about. Grow up.

As they govern based on their lives experiences, they will ensure that the rest of us are also "living frugally". SPREAD THE WEALTH COMRADES!

( saltair: VERY well said.)

Good thing Mainers have stopped elected deadwood and stated electing youth with fresh ideas. The old fogies (30+) you've been electing f05 decades have made the state a basket-case!

By the way, did anyone see the guy Goode was running against? I admire that someone took up the charge but this guy.............. God help us.

I amazes me how people are so quick to judge the abilities of others without giving them a chance. These young people are spreading their wings and want to see changes in our government, those of you complaining about them probably should have got off your duff an put your name in the pot to go to Augusta, and you probably didn't vote to being with. Cherry I agree with you.

Well, the older generation ran the state into the ground, so maybe that's what maine voters were thinking. As far as being influenced by people, I think it may be a good idea to have a generation of people up there that will listen to people instead of holding onto their 1970's ideals of how government should be run. It will be a wait and see game, they can't possibly screw it up more than it already is. Or can they???

The folks that have felt compelled to complain about the election of these intelligent, energetic, and experienced young legislators should hold their criticism until they see many of these representatives in action. Many of these candidates have extensive experience shaping policy in Augusta and understand the process better than many current representatives in Augusta. Furthermore many were elected with a broad base of support like Adam Goode so they appealed to D's, R's and I's and clearly proved themselves to their future constituents. These great candidates have not even cast a vote yet so give them a chance before you try to tear them down.

Really? Your reaction is that young people should not be allowed in the legislature?

Have you taken a look around our state lately? How many college educated 20-somethings do you know? I bet it is not very many, and I bet if they are around, they are not working in the field in which they studied in college. Face it, Maine has a huuuuuge "Brain Drain." I would personally love to live and work in Maine (I am 25) but I face a few issues: a lack of jobs in my field, low pay which inhibits my ability to pay off student loans, and a lack of entertainment options. After years and years of this problem continuing unabated, Maine's geriatric population will get older and older, and the newer generations will not be there to replace it. Many of us leave with every intention of returning to Maine to raise a family, but what invariably happens is that you take a job in a city, make some good money, and start a family there and never return to Maine. This "Brain Drain" is robbing Maine of its gifted younger generations, the generations that need to support the older population as they near retirement.

Who better to address these issues than those in the at risk age group? These legislators are the ones who chose to stay because they love the state of Maine, they know the challenges of finding those high paying jobs we all went to college to get, they know how frustrating it can be to be a 20-something in a rural state. Why not let them have a crack at luring those of us who remain out of state back? Create some jobs, provide some cultural events, raise the standard of living. The well-qualified, older politicians you all seem to covet have failed in all three respects.

"Adults' Job", common, you "adults" haven't done such a wonderful job yourselves...

taxpayer2 - "those of you complaining about them probably should have got off your duff an put your name in the pot to go to Augusta"

There is nothing I would like more than to make a run for office in Augusta. Sadly I live in the real world and dont have the $$. I am to busy earning a living it would not be possible for me to pay my bills and hold elected office. Of course this doesn't stop some state senators. The real sad thing is I dont really have that many bills. A house payment and a small car payment. No Credit Card debt. No kids. We live well within our mean but the only way you can get to Augusta is to have wealth or be retired or, it appears, be so young you can stil live on Ramen. Its little wonder Augusta has stopped looking out for working Mainers, there aren't any up there.

charlesu - "Many of these candidates have extensive experience"

Your kidding right? One of them still describes himself as a student. They may have been running around the halls of the statehouse on various internships, but where is the realworld expereince that matters. They re products of the establishment only more dangerous becuase they have no life experience with which to offset those idealistic liberal educations..

bgcarl01 - "they can't possibly screw it up more than it already is."

Sadly that is probably true.

All the lazy deadbeats in the city should be happy. Guess I'll have to breakdown and buy that chain for my wallet.

I take offense to many of these comments. I'm 27 years old. I own a house and pay taxes, I was educated in the Univeristy of Maine system for both my bachelors and masters, I have real world experience, working in several health care organizations, I volunteer in my community......why can't I run for office if I want to. Why should I wait? I have real experience and ideas that I could bring with me to Augusta now and so do these young people. The attitude of many of these commenters is one of the reasons that young people aren't staying in Maine.

"Sadly I live in the real world and don't have the $$." well, if you're not smart enough to get a good job and earn real $$, then you likely aren't smart enough to be a legislator, and this is a good thing! The whole state is glad for this.

drhibbert - I agree with you on so many levels. I live and work in Maine. I left the state to get an education and returned. Do not work in my field of study even after returning to school in state a second time. I do what pays the bills. We have been very close to leaving for good a couple times, but have always found a way to stay. Sometimes I wonder why.

I have written a bunch on here this a.m. about there lack of real world experience. But also look at what they have been doing. Most of it is non-profit work of a very idealistic nature. It may be important work, but they are not looking at the world they same way you and I are. They didn't go looking for good jobs to start a life, I would venture to guess a few of them probably dont have to worry about that sort of thing, but that is just speculation. They left school and wanted to save the world got involved with these non-profits and further seperated themselves from everyday Mainers. They are not looking through the same glasses you and I are.

The "brain drain" is not an exaggeration. That concept refers to young professionals who have to move away from Maine to get REAL JOBS - rather than become Legislators living off OUR tax dollars.

> Rather than "community organizing" we give back to communities by spending our hard-earned dollars on both property taxes for the homes we own, or in spending through commerce.

> Instead of whining about "not having health insurance" at the ripe-young age of 26 when MOST are healthy and able-bodied, we work in competitive industries that actually offer healthcare as an employee benefit.

I'm sure these contemporaries of mine are well-meaning and truly want to make a difference. However, the "most are Democrats" sentence in this article says it all. These bright-eyed "think-tankers" will be a rubber stamp for the socialist/wealth-redistributing principles of their party leadership that have bankrupted the State of Maine to date.

chemaine - this is the problem with these boards. When people have nothing else to say they get personal. I have a very good job. My wife and I do quite well. You dont even know me so your attack on my intelligence is meaningless. Having a good job though doesn't mean I can give it up to go to Augusta. Your argument holds no water. You can disagree with me that is fine, but lets be civil huh?

To Amy you are qualified. You have a job and house and are actually lving life in Maine the way many of us are. If you can find a way to balance those bills and be in Augusta you should go. My beef is not with their age, but their lack of real world experience. I dont see how they can understand the consequences of their actions when they have not been out there.

Got to love the age bias

You forgot some other newly elected young leaders - like a 23 year old who knocked of a 67 year old veteran incumbent ... TheForecaster.net has a good sum-up of the story, posted below:

‘Flaherty Makes Splash’

A native son and championship high school swimmer upset the incumbent Tuesday in House District 127.

Democrat Sean Flaherty, 23, of Pine Point Road, defeated Republican Rep. John McDonough, 67, of Old Blue Point Road. Flaherty received 3,089 votes, or 56 percent, to McDonough’s 2,432.

On Wednesday, Flaherty said he was “feeling pretty good and relieved that it’s all over.”

He said “the first order of business is to get up (to Augusta) and get a hold of how the process works.”

“I have nothing but respect for Representative McDonough and what he’s done in his career,” Flaherty said. “He ran a great campaign; he stuck to the issues and didn’t use any negativity at all, which I was very grateful for.”

McDonough was seeking a second term. He had previously served two terms in another district while living in Portland and also served as that city’s mayor for two years.

Although he acknowledged he was disappointed that he lost, saying “it’s a whole lot nicer winning,” McDonough praised his opponent.

“I’m very pleased a nice young man like Sean Flaherty won the race and I know he’ll make the people of Scarborough proud of him,” he said.

Majority rules, whiners. Maybe you should've voted instead of sitting at the computer all day.

McCain was gracious in conceding defeat and promised to support his president. Would that Maine's Republican loosers had the decency to do the same. Do you WANT government by confrontation? Why not rejoice that the next generation is getting active and send them off to Augusta with our good wishes? You can criticize them if they fail, but one of them may be the next John Mitchell, Margaret Chase or Susan Collins: a spokesperson for Maine's interests respected throughout the country. Anyway, you complainers, why not get off your butts and try to do better - for next to no pay? You seem to know so much!

Emily Cain...puuuullleeezz, I heard her on WVOM and all she had to spew was a whiny diatribe about "how hard she tries" and "her desire", I don't care how hard some people "try" when you obviously aren't making the right choices for the state maybe "trying" isn't enough and you should give someone else a "try".

What is it about "community organizer" that just reeks of "what can big government do for you"?

HEY GET OVER IT PEOPLE

The BDN really screwed up the election reporting this year. The results that I read the day after the election turned out to be way off - why would the BDN report election results that were only partially tallied? How misleading.

Maybe I'm technologically challenged, but haven't found anything on the Bangor City Council races, and got my info from the TV sites.

downbeat, Lobstarok, mainecommenter, duckwa and slm414 - all of these people who who went out and got themselves elected did something you didn't do... put their names on a ballot. They went door to door, campaigned and registered voters while you listened to Limbaugh, Hannity and did nothing but complain. Duckwa - you have a big mouth on this forum lets see you do something besides sit behind a keyboard and spit out words from a wingnut because you lack the courage, skills, and education to bring any sense of reality to the discussion.

Yeah we elected the kiddie car crowd to Augusta! Will they be strong enough to stand up to Father John and Mother Mitchell.

"These young people are spreading their wings" Hopefully they fly right into a large plate glass!!!

All I can say is "what the hell is going on in Maine?" Electing these kids is just one of the most recent phenomena - as a couple of previous posters pointed out, we don't have a lot to gloat about in what their elders have accomplished over the last 30 years, either. Doesn't it seem sometimes that we're watching a slow-motion train wreck? Oh well, have a good day!

When one looks at today's business and corporate system support, this age group of minds and intelect are the ones behind the Information Systems and Information Technology (the ones doing all the work on computers and systems behind the scenes) that keeps these businesses and corporations running each day......Also, this age group of citizens probably makes up the majority of our armed forces serving America around the globe....I would think they are most qualified to become public servants and probably more qualified than any of us commenting on this blog! Bring on the new minds and input...hopefully they will lead in a different direction than that we are on now....PS. I am still trying to recover from the fact that Mr. Frarey didn't win his bid for public servant....NOT!

I don't understand why you all keep saying young people don't have any real world experience. On the contrary, our world today is so vastly different than it was when we were young (I'm in my 60's). Technology has allowed us to be in closer touch with the world than we were 30 years ago. Young people also have a better grasp on politics than we did. One could say they have lived two lifetimes in their 25 years of life because of the increase in violence, and knowledge of world issues. I am having a hard time articulating my thoughts, but I think we need to stop being so ageist. Saying their age makes them less qualified is wrong regardless if we are saying they are too young or too old. It still sounds like jealousy and regret. peace and love.

Well Mainers, you should have volunteered to do your duty as a citizen of Maine and campained for your constituent! If you had, you would have seen for yourself that all the campaign offices were run by Kids! Not many more than 30 years old, and most in 20's. How do they get their jobs???

I would suspect that somebody older would have much more insight than someone just out of school, with no life experience, making our decisions and LAWS! This must be the new way of teaching them to think like their predessessors. Kind'a like brainwashing 101.

""These young people are spreading their wings" Hopefully they fly right into a large plate glass!!! "

WOW, you sound like a cranky old fart. Very very sad.

Come gather round people

Wherever you roam

And admit that the waters

Around you have grown

And accept it that soon

Youll be drenched to the bone.

If your time to you

Is worth savin

Then you better start swimmin

Or youll sink like a stone

For the times they are a-changin.

Come writers and critics

Who prophesize with your pen

And keep your eyes wide

The chance wont come again

And dont speak too soon

For the wheels still in spin

And theres no tellin who

That its namin.

For the loser now

Will be later to win

For the times they are a-changin.

Come senators, congressmen

Please heed the call

Dont stand in the doorway

Dont block up the hall

For he that gets hurt

Will be he who has stalled

Theres a battle outside

And it is ragin.

Itll soon shake your windows

And rattle your walls

For the times they are a-changin.

Come mothers and fathers

Throughout the land

And dont criticize

What you cant understand

Your sons and your daughters

Are beyond your command

Your old road is

Rapidly agin.

Please get out of the new one

If you cant lend your hand

For the times they are a-changin.

The line it is drawn

The curse it is cast

The slow one now

Will later be fast

As the present now

Will later be past

The order is

Rapidly fadin.

And the first one now

Will later be last

For the times they are a-changin.

I'm so proud of all these new young legislators who have decided to get active in running their government. If (when) young people were apathetic all you'd hear is how uninformed and disconnected young people are, now that they're involved suddenly they should 'just go play video games, and let the adults run things.'

Welcome to the 21st Century, where 20-somethings are sought after by Multi National Corporations for their fresh ideas of how to run a business in the information age.

This generation understands how to solve problems using new solutions.

This generation is plugged into a global conversation in real time via broadband and rss.

This generation recognizes that the world is flat, although it took someone from your generation to point that out to the aging boomers.

This generation grew up with the disgraceful divisiveness of the Lewinski trial chirping in the background, and saw how petty and small politics shouldn't be; thanks Newt!

This generation recognizes that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness include universal healthcare and a strong education system - and actually plan to do something about it.

This generation of legislators welcomes your input...questions and comments can be delivered via email, text message, IM, facebook wall post, phone call (after 10am please), or good old fashion hand written letter...need our contact info? Google it!

PS I'm 27 years old, and I've had my mortgage since I was 25, so please don't make assumptions.

I would almost bet that everyone that is complaining about the young people in government, were probably all born 5o+ years of age and never had to start some where. And all the current government officials currently in office or that have just be replaced by a younger person had to start some where. I hear negative comments daily at work about our recent election, like I will wait for my $1500.00 check that Obama promises to restart the economy with. Some of my own family complains about Obama winning the election, why dont we see what he does before we condem him for having guts enough to run for one of the most thankless jobs in the world. You cant please everyone. saltair perhaps you need a job to keep you from complaining so much.

HLF123: no one could say it better than Dylan.

HLF123: You articulate what I am unable to, I'm in my 60's, you are in your 20's...I think we've proved our point.

Isn't this what a democracy is all about?

My hope is that these young democrats (as I believe most of them are) don't get caught up in party politics and towing the party line as so many have gotten accustomed to doing. I mean, Baldacci only got elected with a plurality of votes, yet he continues to lead our state down the same self-destructive path it's been on (tax and spend money as soon as it comes in). If we had something like ranked choice/ instant runoff voting in this state, then the outcome may have been different. Feel free to step outside the box folks! This is America, you have a voice beyond your own party, the people deserve fresh solutions, not the same ol' crap that hasn't worked!

Yes, and given our economy, budget, and current situation, it is abundanatly clear that our older legistlators are far more effective

HLF123.....Please allow me to correct something so others are not mislead. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are God given rights. Universal health care (any health care for that matter) is NOT A RIGHT! Sorry if it looks like am am yelling, I'm not. I just don't understand why people think that health care is a right? Where in the constitution, or in the bill of rights does it say...."citizens shall have the right to health care and it shall be provided by the government or by the employer of said citizen." Please tell me why you think it is a right.

Access to health care is an integral part of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." People who can afford health insurance have better access to health care and as such are "more equal" than others, which could be interpreted as a violation of the equal protection clause.

Isn't it good that these people haven't yet had time to become jaded by the political system and are still willing to use their ideas to make a difference.

Access to health care is important, it is not a right. There will always be people who have more than other people. It is a reality and there isn't a law that can change that (eg...more intelligence, more athletic, more musical, more analytical....). In your way of thinking, having more makes you more equal? Just because the government doesn't and shouldn't make up for people's short comings doesn't mean there is a violation of the equal protection clause (that would be a VERY loose interpretation). The 14th amendment (equal protection clause) says states can't deny people equal protection of the laws. It doesn't say anything about equal access to health care. Health care is not a law. yet!

Saltoria: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not god given rights. They rights given to MEN BY OTHER MEN...if they were god given..as you say then blacks and women would not have had to fight for them....White men wrote the constitution for white men...and that's the long and the short of it...

searoses: You might be right on some level, but I interpret it a bit differently. When Thomas Jefferson declared that "we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" I understand that to mean Jefferson was referring to self evident rights that our Creator gave us. I could be wrong, but that is how I understand it.

Public schools were established because equal access to education is considered essential to the pursuit of happiness. Equal access to health care would seem to fit the same logic. You're right searoses, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is in the Bill of Rights.

As far as women and minorities having to fight for a spot at the top, I say that was part of God's plan and I am in no position to question His will.

Okay anne, let me offer this up. If someone is dying of cancer, should we deny them care? No. If someone is ill, do we deny them care? No. We take care of those folks. However, if you need a knee replacement,...that is isn't necessary. It might make your life easier, but that is not a right.

Anne, if we all follow your logic, then we should also be paying for people to go to college, get their masters PHD, pay for them to go to law school, medical school etc. Then we would all be happy, thanks to the government aka tax payers. The only problem with all this government control stuff is eventually people will stop working. There won't be enough workers to pay for the lay abouts. In fact, Europe is having that exact problem. They have an aging population, expensive government programs and people are having fewer children (potential future tax payers). I don't have to tell you what that means! And, America is fast heading in that direction.

Saltoria: So let me see if I have this right? It ok to be a bigot because that was part of gods plan?...boy the god you pray to and the god I was taught about are no where the same god..My god was filled with love and hope for all of human kind...too long MEN have stood behind god, as away to give credences to the way others have been abused and downtrodden. No this is not god plan this is the plan of MEN

Anne and searoses, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness isn't in the Bill of Right, it's in the Declaration of Independence.

OK, Saltoria, I don't know if you pay for your own health insurance, are uninsured, or are covered by your employer. Here's the story for everyone else. The poor and the elderly are covered by Medicaid and Medicare which is paid for by the taxpayers. The rich are covered by private health insurance paid for out of their own pockets or by their employers. 50 million people give or take a few are uninsured because they are unable to afford the $800.00 to $1500.00 a month to cover themselves and their families. Oddly enough it is the taxes paid by the middle class that are subsidizing Medicaid and Medicare. The middle class is also subsidizing the wealthy through the increased costs of goods and services required to pay for THEIR health care. So I guess you're right in saying that the middle class has no RIGHT to health care. The middle class has no right to anything really. Let them educate their own kids. If the roads they use to travel to work on are in disrepair, let them fix them themselves. If a sewer pipe breaks they should fix them themselves. It doesn't say anything in the Constitution about the GOVERNMENT paying for this stuff. According to you, that's socialism or communism. People really need to take care of themselves. The only right the middle class have is to foot the bill for everyone else. They should be happy to bailout reckless Wall Street investment firms and huge executive bonuses and illegal and unjust wars all around the world, right? I just would like you to point out where in the Constitution that it says that.

SLM414 i didn't say it was in the bill of rights I said the rights are not god given

Hmmmm - to all you old fogies: none other than Olympia Snowe was the youngest Republican woman ever elected to Congress at the age of 31 in 1978. But of course you knew that, right? And you would never have criticized her in this ruffian fashion because she is a (pseudo) Republican. Oh, the hypocrisy!!!

Searoses that was my error. Thanks for pointing it out SLM414.

Saltoria, I take it you haven't heard of state universities and government-subsidized college loans. Do you ever research what you say or are you just spouting off? What is it that you hope to achieve here? The "layabouts"? Are you even from here?

Postscript: Snowe was elected to the Maine House in 1973 when she was just 26!!

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are God given rights." NO. Where does this say so in the Bible?

These are rights Jefferson cribbed from Locke, and have nothing to do with divine providence. They are government-given and, as the current president has demonstrated in his abandonment of habeus corpus, what the govt giveth it can taketh away!!

"The Truth": You'll note that I had not objection to the age of Mr. Goode. Cherry's point (at 9:48AM) is well taken. However, its his career with a liberal activist group that is of more concern.

I know you'll all think I'm nuts, but that's okay because I'm reasonably sure that everyone here is nuts. I noted that Saltoria stopped posting here at 5:08 pm. I don't think Saltoria is for real. Just like I don't think johninphilippines is real. They just don't sound like real people to me. That really ticks me off, that someone not from the Bangor area, obviously with some ulterior motive, would be posting here. Don't get me wrong. I love the digitial era. I love that I can check a fact with lightning speed. I guess I just want to offer a word of caution.

It was mentioned earlier that if someone is ill they can not be refused treatment, while this is true they can also expect a very large BILL probably several very large bills acctually. As for young folks not having real world experience, I am 31 at 27 I had to file bankruptcy because of all of my medical bills, that gave me a lot of insight into "the real world" let me tell you. Now I can not go back to school to finish my degree to get a better paying job with insurance because I can't get a loan with that on my credit report. As far as Elsie Flemings experience at 25, yes she did move here from Massachusetts to go to college at COA, yes she is the co-ordinator of the Union River Watershed Coallition. But there is a lot more to her, here is just some of her political resume thus far; Congressional Legislative Aide, Member of the Maine State Citizen Trade Policy Commission, Board Member of Healthy Acadia, Incorporator at MDI Hospital, Board Member of Union River Healthy Communities, Sole U.S. Youth Representative to the U.N. Commission on Sustainable Development, National Fair Trade Organizer, National Secretary of SustainUS, Community Organizer: 2004 Elections and 2005 Maine Won’t Discriminate. Elsie laid the groundwork for the campaign and wrote initial drafts of the legislation, which ultimately passed in 2007 as the Informed Growth Act.

Her endorsements came from; the other (young) rep. here on MDI; Hannah Pingree, George Mitchell, Tom Allen, Ted Koffman(who's seat she will no occupy), the Maine State Employees Associtation(only 7 given statewide), and Equality Maine. Just to name a few.

Yes I support her and worked on campaign even she is a good true person and will do us good in Augusta.

Elsie has said that she wasn’t lucky enough to be born here, but she is smart enough to make Maine her home. “I want to raise a family here. I want them to have affordable housing, good jobs, health insurance and a clean environment. I want to be a voice for positive change in the state and beyond. That is my calling.”

MaineCommenter - and what is so bad about Adam's activities? Is working to overthrown the government or is his work for something good? BTW do you know what his organization does?

Bluebob, Good post! It clearly puts your point of view across. Boy do we see things different though. I am glad to find out that I am rich though. For the record , employers paying for insurance is a little misleading. 95% of the time it is money that would have gone to your paycheck other wise. Also can you tell me where those rich people roads are located. Since you declared me rich, with my health insurance, I would like to start driving on the no pot hole rich people roads.

Anne, you bring your birth certificate first and then we will start tossing out the imaginary people that are getting paid to out post you on here. The fact that Saltoria can put her point of view out there with out having to put people down doesn't mean she is getting paid to do so. Not that she probably wouldn't take a few green backs for her trouble if you guys want to pass the hat. Speaking of hat, what kind of sweater is it today, a cardigan or a pull over... Oh Anne!

For the rest of the posts, someday you will realize that God not only gave you those rights, but the air in your lungs and everything else. I pray that you all realize sooner then later.

Duckwa... thanks! You helped start my day with a big chuckle!! I must say Anne truly takes the cake! If she doesn't think I am real, what does she think I am? I don't get it. I have probably lived in the Bangor area longer than she has! And who in the world would pay anyone to post comments on this forum??

She noted on another thread that I stopped posting around 5pm. It was the school consolidation topichttp://bangornews.com/detail/92783.html. Her suggestions about me are comical to say the least. You might get a charge out of reading her paranoia thoughts. Too funny! However, I appreciate folks like anne-mdi. They offer cheap entertainment when I'm not busy doing something else, like polishing my spaceship!

And Duckwa, I guess you and I are the only ones here who recognize that God gave us life, not the government. In giving us life, He gave us free will, the will choose freedom and happiness. People simply have different ideas about what the means we should take to achieve the ends.

Saltoria, are the fire department and the police department a right or a privilege? Should we privatize both of these services (like health care) so those better able to insure themselves are the ones protected, while those who can't afford it can watch their house burn to the ground? Imagine calling the police department to tell them your home has (god forbid) been robbed, and the dispatcher on the other end of the phone asks you for 'pre-authorization' from your police insurance provider.

Basic needs of all American citizens include: access to education, protection by the police department, protection by the fire department, and equal access to basic health care. Everyone has these basic needs (as well as some others that I'm sure I've forgotten), so as a society we ought to provide for our neighbors; everyone benefits when the least of these are protected from undue hardship. For example, our government pays far more in emergency health care than they would have to if they provided basic preventive care - it would be less expensive and cut government spending. No one's advocating 'designer' health care for the masses. Nor is anyone advocating free public education through PhD. Similarly, no one is suggesting that we provide personal security guards for every home (as outrageous as either of the latter misperceptions).

America is a strong country where we can afford to provide a basic level of essential services to every citizen. I would appreciate if you would stop insulting this great country by suggesting that we are as cold and heartless as North Korea to not provide basic health care to our neighbors; shame on you Saltoria!

Duckwa, please excuse my poor sentence construction. I know you are a real stickler for grammar and spelling. What I meant to write was that the rich don't have to worry about health insurance. Of course I know that not everyone who has health insurance is rich. I have yet to meet a wealthy person or business owner who pays an employee more than the absolute minimum necessary. Most employers who offer health insurance to their employees do so to remain competitive and to attract the type of workers they need, you know, for their own self-interests. Have you noticed, Duckwa, fewer and fewer employers provide health insurance. The people I work for canceled our health insurance because they no longer had to provide it to attract the people they needed and because of skyrocketing costs. They didn't make the difference up in my paycheck, as you suggested. The neo-cons and the libertarians are all saying we should rely on the government for only the most basic of services. I'm saying health care is a basic service. Providing big subsidies and tax breaks for big businesses and trillion-dollar bailouts for corrupt investment bankers should be less important than ensuring equal access to health care for all Americans. I guess for you and Saltoria it's an "I've got mine" situation, because if you were uninsured you would be singing a different tune. For too long in the U.S. it's been socialism for the wealthy but the free market for the middle class and the poor.

Interesting, most folks consider our basic needs as food, shelter and clothing. I didn't realize those basic needs could be arbitrarily altered to suit one's personal needs/agenda. "As a society we ought to provide for our neighbors?" What about neighbors who don't want to provide for themselves? Again, health care is not a right. The liberals have made you think it is a right, but it is not. It is not identified as essential services like fire, police and lower level education. Have you ever read the story about the ant and the grasshopper? I highly recommend it.

Shame on me for being opposed to more government dependence by the poor people than promoting indepence. Shame on me for wanting a society where people take care of themselves rather than rely on the government to take care of them!

Geesh, it hasn't worked out very well in Europe, why would we want to follow the same failed liberal policies?

As always you are right again, Saltoria. Nobody works in Europe. And the 50 million uninsured people in the U.S. who can't afford health insurance are "layabouts." Do children, the infirm, and the elderly fit into your equation? You know, the layabouts who are unable to work because they're too young, too sick or too old? You must be aware that the government already provides for people who don't or can't work. That is not the issue. The issue is that the hard-working middle class is footing the bill for everyone else's health care but can't afford it for themselves.

Hi HLF123 and Bluecollarbob! I think you're both awesome. Hmm, the government already provides poor people with food, shelter, clothing, and HEALTH CARE. I guess they already consider health care to be a basic need. Saltoria can you please explain to me why you and so many others are fixated on poor welfare cheats but not on corporate welfare queens?

Sure Anne....I'll try. We do take care of the those who are unable to work, the old the young the disabled. Unable is the key word. As a former social worker, I can tell you first hand that the abuse is out of control! (I had to change careers!) That doesn't mean we punish everyone who needs help, but the original intent of welfare was to help people temporarily, during a difficult time, not a life long career. As a society, everything we have depends on those corporate queens and kings you are so jealous of. Those folks are the ones that do the most investing in our economy to help it grow. Those are the folks who create jobs. I've never known a poor person to hire people to work. We don't want to punish the very people who are the backbone of our country by making them pay more, while others (the ones who are very able but have become welfare dependent) lay about. That's right, lay about. And, I think you are all awesome too, just misguided!!

Dear Saltoria::::::::::::

Just to elaborate a little, I think that one of the largest problems with our social service

agencies is that they don't have a "closed-end" philosophy of doing business. This is

to say that it isn't in their interest as an agency to have people emerging from their

"system" on the other end, no longer requiring "services". Today, it is all about how

many clients you serve, and this is what determines your budget AND your staffing

level AND your clout with Augusta and the Feds. Talk about TURF Battles!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's all about Self-Perpetuation, in many ways..........

OldBangor

Saltoria, I think you do make a good point when you write that burdening employers to the point where they can no longer create jobs would be a bad thing. But look at Ford, GM and Chrysler. They didn't fail because they were overtaxed! They failed because they focused on short-term gains by building gas-guzzling SUVs and cars. They knew full well that sooner or later gas prices would skyrocket and guess who would be left holding the bag? Not the CEOs. Never the people responsible for the failure. They've outsourced in every possible way they can in an attempt to keep overhead low and profits high. But the problem is the CEOs kept all the rewards for themselves and didn't "spread the wealth around." The fact is they created lots of jobs overseas! But our economy became top-heavy because supply-side economics does not work. I say the backbone of this country is the middle class, and that we are the ones who are being punished by having to shoulder the entire burden for everyone else's health care without being able to afford it for ourselves.

You are absolutely right OldBangor!! That is why the democrats are in favor of big government; a government that promotes dependency. It helps perpetuate their job and power.

BlueCollarBob...I agree with you on one point, the middle class is being burdened! What worries me is at point will I no longer be considered middle class, but rich.

Saltoria:::::::

I've believed for a long while that social services agencies have needed a true

standard of evaluation and accountability. A good start for them would be if

they had to provide figures annually of how many "clients" they had passed

through their system(s) and no longer required "help". Certainly, this sort of

figure ought to be the measure of how well they're doing their JOB! Not like

the sign on McDonalds that tells us how many BILLIONS have been SERVED!!!!!

OldBangor

BlueCollarBob: Just one thing before I head out to meet some friends (liberals and conservatives).

I know you might not agree with this notion, but I suspect that the automobile industry sees an opportunity to jump on the "bail me out" bandwagon. I don't think it has anything to do with the CEO's, or SUV's or FUP's or DLD's. It has to do with greed and opportunity to take advantage of a precedent that has been set. I hope the government will say no to this one, but the flood gates have been opened. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Anne_of_mdi, you better get off this site and stop your personal, vindictive attacks on me. Somehow, you do not personally know me, nor do I want you to. You just come on this site anytime and make it your effort to control the site and everybody on it. I have already reported you to the editors of the Bangor Daily News, and my attorney in Houston. I have received a phone call back from them, already, but the issue is still ongoing against you. I will not justify to answer your nasty comments about me in public forums such as this one to argue and spar with you, so you can feel egotistical by doing it, and for me to justify and prove my life to you. Whatever I said in my postings about me are true. You can take it or leave it. You seem to forget that even people from other places in the country and the world can be allowed to make postings on this website, not just you, alone, Anne, and you cannot control that, nor can you control others in Maine who want to make postings about what is happening in Maine or/and to initiate comments that come from other points of views from other places in the world by people who just happen to have a life different from yours, and have done things and have things obviously different than you have had. There are no "ulterior motives", Anne, and nobody here has anything more to do than to express opinions. You probably feel quite insecure if you feel outsiders have ulterior motives if they wish to blog on this site. Your prowess in checking does not bother me or anyone in the least, as I use different contacts and use different web user names. Is that illegal to do...and cannot you accept that? Probably not, Anne, but don't ever attempt to control this site by intimidation, because it will not work. I, too, can check facts with lightning speed, and most likely have more powerful equipment to do that, but I really don't want to waste my time with it. I have more to do. What's more, Anne, when people use quotation marks around words, like "this, for example", they are emphasizing the phrase or the word, simply because there are no bold or italics to do so, and it is acceptable English grammar. By the way, congratulations to the young man who just got elected. I wish him all the best!

Anne_of_mdi, you better get off this site and stop your personal, vindictive attacks on me. Somehow, you do not personally know me, nor do I want you to. You just come on this site anytime and make it your effort to control the site and everybody on it. I have already reported you to the editors of the Bangor Daily News, and my attorney in Houston. I have received a phone call back from them, already, but the issue is still ongoing against you. I will not justify to answer your nasty comments about me in public forums such as this one to argue and spar with you, so you can feel egotistical by doing it, and for me to justify and prove my life to you. Whatever I said in my postings about me are true. You can take it or leave it. You seem to forget that even people from other places in the country and the world can be allowed to make postings on this website, not just you, alone, Anne, and you cannot control that, nor can you control others in Maine who want to make postings about what is happening in Maine or/and to initiate comments that come from other points of views from other places in the world by people who just happen to have a life different from yours, and have done things and have things obviously different than you have had. There are no "ulterior motives", Anne, and nobody here has anything more to do than to express opinions. You probably feel quite insecure if you feel outsiders have ulterior motives if they wish to blog on this site. Your prowess in checking does not bother me or anyone in the least, as I use different contacts and use different web user names. Is that illegal to do...and cannot you accept that? Probably not, Anne, but don't ever attempt to control this site by intimidation, because it will not work. I, too, can check facts with lightning speed, and most likely have more powerful equipment to do that, but I really don't want to waste my time with it. I have more to do. What's more, Anne, when people use quotation marks around words, like "this, for example", they are emphasizing the phrase or the word, simply because there are no bold or italics to do so, and it is acceptable English grammar. By the way, congratulations to the young man who just got elected. I wish him all the best!

Plus, the above user name is the former "johninthephilippines". IMy son Adrian changed the user name primarily because he has taken my computer, as I bought a new one; and I still use this old MacIntosh to continue to blog on the BDN site. My son is the one to alter the user name, not me, if Anne did her research correctly!

Right John. Your son changed the name and you are innocently posting under it. You are the one who tried to take control of this website by posting reams of idiotic drivel here every day. When people got sick of it and drummed you off the site you tried posting under 2, 3 or 4 pseudonyms just so you could continue to fill this forum with your poisonous racist remarks. You are the one who stupidly advertised yourself as posting on the Topix site. You deserve whatever you get.

Anne, YOU are a pure WHACK JOB! How often do you get outside? Likley not much because you are to busy forming conspiracy theories over what people post in a very small papers comment section. Theres a big world out there anne, and it does not orbit around you or Maine for that matter. Your rants and attacks on posters here are really sad. Is THAT your cry for help?

John/americanbandstand, Don't fall into her little world. even responding to her is feeding her addicition. Think about it for a second, her whole day seems to revolve around refreshing the page very 10 minutes to see if someone has replied to her,If that is not the definition of pathetic it ought to be.. Use that lightening speed equiptment you have at your fingertips and check out this site: http://www.flayme.com/troll/

I think you will see anne fits the profile to a '" T ". I enjoy reading your posts so keep it up!