Restrictions sought to protect lynx

For years Monford Ladner of Easton Said there were Canada Lynxs In Aroostook . The state Biologists said He was Crazy, Time for an apology now that hes dead!

Yes, Wallyo, our state lies quite a bit about what is going on in the woods of Maine. There are some very good biologists employed by the state but the powers that be like them to toe the line. We know more lynx are being trapped than what is reported and we know trappers are intentionally not reporting. We gave the judge page after page of trapper blogs showing not only do many not intend to report any future catch but also admitting that trapping doesn't make them any money, its just a hobby, and advocating for "shoot,shovel,shut up". The judge did not think the blogs were worthy of consideration, unfortunately, but they were all true and I back traced who the bloggers were. They are ALL trappers. The statement that “It is very difficult to reach trappers in the woods at this point,” is such a lie that it's barely worth talking about, but almost all Maine trappers drive out, set their traps, go back home and wait to check their traps. There might be one or two who stay out overnight but even that would be stretching the truth to say they can't be reached. And so it goes, the state continues to trap lynx, an illegal activity under the Endangered Species Act, and they lie to the court about the state of their ITP application (they told the judge it is final and it hasn't even been finished being reviewed in the Regional office yet). THis is the same ITP application they have submitted many, many times and it has been sent back for improvement each time. I have read the ITP and it still does not meet the minimum requirements set out by USF&W in their last letter to IF&W. I suggest that USF&W should have IF&W at the very least meet those requirements. USF&W also, in their response letter, said that if there were special circumstances, such as decling populations, which there are, then they would suggest closures in certain areas to trapping.This is the federal government saying this, not us, and it just shows the impunity under which this state agency (IF&W) acts.

I can't believe in this day and age that trapping is still even allowed. To all who trap: how about we have you caught in a trap & leave you there for 24 hours to see what it feels like. I have heard of animals actually chewing their own feet off to get out of a trap. Beaver get caught & drown. Want to try that one? I am not against hunting by any means ( although bear baiting is not actually "hunting" in my opinion), I am 100 % against trapping. I feel it is inhumane & cruel. It is one thing to shoot a deer or a moose for the purpose of supplying meat, but to simply kill an animal for it's pelt is just wrong. Want to make some extra money, get a job. Already have a job? Get a second job. There is your new "hobbie".

You have to be a real scumbag to be a trapper. Where's the joy in that? Really, where's the joy in trapping or hunting? So you kill a bear, deer or moose? So that it can be mounted in your living room? What a pathetic group of people whose only way to "enjoy" life is by taking one. Saddest part is that these gun and trapping nuts, unescorted, are walking our streets.

Could someone please explain to me how you release a PO'd lynx from a leghold trap without someone getting hurt; lynx or trapper. Honestly, I don't believe for a minute that these animals are being released unharmed. Who can prove it? Any photos? I wish that trapping would be outlawed. In this day and age there is no reason for the practice to continue. Maine is home to too many endangered and protected animals to allow such an indiscriminent practice to continue.

I know, the trappers will lament that it is a way of life, a treasured legacy from bygone days. I would like to remind those good fellows that it was not so long ago that beating your wives and children was a permitted as well as owning other human beings. Cruelty should never be sponsered by the state. In any form. It's time to hang up the traps.

Let's evaluate the potential damage to the lynx rationally. Out of a population of 500, only eight were accidentally trapped and only one was reported to show any sign of injury - "one walked away a little gimpy". So 1.6% of the population was affected in any way, and only one lynx (2/10ths of 1 percent) were perceived to be harmed, and yet the flatlanders want to ban a sporting tradition that's been going on for 200 years. Using that logic, we probably should ban all vehicular traffic north of Augusta because I'm darned sure that at least one lynx is injured or killed being struck by a vehicle over the course of the year. Everyone needs to understand that the real agenda here that's backed by out of state "friends of animals" organizations is to eventually ban all trapping, hunting, and even fishing. First it was bear trapping, then the lawsuit regarding lynx last year, now another law suit this year ... and those are ony the ones that actually make it to referendum or court here in Maine - there's hundreds of others throughout the rural areas of the country. These organizations, "PITA" et al, continue to try to overcome/shut down the long standing traditions of people who simply live different lifestyles that their members JUDGE to be offensive to their Madison Avenue sensibilities. They continue to financially support these sometimes radical organizations and their frivilous lawsuits, knowing that eventually money trumps tradition and logic most of the time. These are not pets or barnyard animals that are being mistreated .... these are wild animals that have been a source of recreation, food, income, or clothing to many people since this country was first populated by Native American Indians centuries ago.

"Everyone needs to understand that the real agenda here that's backed by out of state "friends of animals" organizations is to eventually ban all trapping, hunting, and even fishing."

Where do you get off making an assumption such as this?? Have you even looked into the groups who oppose these cruel trapping methods? Or are you just regurgitating the mind-numbingly innacurate rhetoric that so many who don't want to be 'bothered' with giving some thought and compassion to the way we treat animals so often do? I would guess that it's the later since you referred to PETA (correct spelling). What you fail to realize is that this is not an animal RIGHTS issue - this is an issue of unneccesarily causing pain and suffering to another living creature. "money trumps tradition and logic" - you're right about that one. and that's why wildlife usually loses the battle.

PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals..gets kind of tiring having people from out of state come and tell us from Maine what is ethical and not ethical, out of staters should just stay where they come from and leave us alone. We don't tell them what kind of hobbies they can or can't do. Those who wish to trap should continue to do so, just like fishing, hunting etc...Those who don't like it, DON"T DO IT and shut up about it!

Just because you live in a certian state does not mean that you OWN everything in it. There are NATIONAL laws protecting wildlife and their habitats because they belong to the NATION.

Yup. I grew up in the 50's and 60's in Maine. Nobody up here was concerned about trapping. Now we have the anthropomorphizing people moving in that are more worried about an animal 99% of them will never see. While I'd admit it's not a completely rational position (and neither is theirs), why not just leave well enough alone and let the Maine wildlife biolgists manage things. What stinks is out of State fingers on what has been traditional practice in Maine for centuries. These twinks are clearly NOT out to "save the lynx." It's simply a means to get their feet in the door and ban all trapping. I hate to sound like some of the trolls on these posts, but please, go away. There's just no other way too put it. Judge Woodcock was born and raised here, and, hopefully, he'll see through the flatlander folly.

Yup. Wildlife Alliance of Maine. Quick Google research. Anti-hunting, anti-trapping and anti-fishing. They're painfully cautious not to spout those "values" out loud, but some of their "friends" are quite vocal in that arena. Some clearly care more about anthropomorphized animals than people. See, if they put their true agenda on their website, they'd be labled in the same genre as PETA. I haven't given to the Humane Society in years simply because of the agenda of the idiot U.S. Humane Society, whom "WAM" has joined up with in certain endeavours. Anti-hunting, anti-trapping, anti-fishing. Give 'em a couple years. They'll be dressing up as lobsters and showing up in Rockland screaming the last weekend of July every year. Or dressing up as clams and showing up at the Yarmouth Clam Festival in protest of killing the poor, innocent clams. Are clams not animals? Is this selective anthropomorphication? I remember my wildlife biology at UMO decades ago. The very first thing Mal Coulter and Voit Richens admonished against (god rest their souls) was exactly what these people are doing. Attempting to reflect human behavior and human cognition & emotions on animals. Now, where's those .06 shells? It's almost time to head out for the afternoon.

If your for PETA. STOP EATING MY MEAT. Live on vegetables and grain. And as for the biologist. We have wolves and mountain lions in our neighborhood ( that apparently don't exist ).

Oh, and before the argument that the anthorpomorphizing doesn't occur, here's DDeJ from a post in February, 2007 in the Portland Press Herald: "Trapping should be sent the way of slavery, inequality of the sexes, inequality of the races and other past acceptable practices that we now know and understand better." Carefully note the comparative references to ". . . slavery, inequality of the sexes, inequality of the races . . ." all human conditions being projected onto animals by comparative argument (or attempt thereto). Pure anthropomorphism at its height. I don't trap. I don't care if other people trap. I just don't like the old way of life is eroding due to misplaced priorities.

The only problem I have with trapping is trappers who do not check their lines in a timely manner. I have seen the damage a trap can do to a dog or cat, and have seen the condition they were in after being "missing " for several days and finally coming home , very thin with a badly swollen foot. I have seen a fox who spent who knows how long in a trap before being released in terrible emaciated condition, limping and with the fur worn off on one side of its bodiy from laying in the muck, unable to stand. If you are going to trap as a "hobby" do it responsibly.

UH Oh daryld, looks like the Judge is onto you. To bad that the mis-use and manipulation of the ESA and Federal courts will eventually result in the watering down of the ESA. That's what happens when something meant for good is mis-used by radicals.

Speaking of Lying, you are quick to accuse with no real evidence what so ever. However, I wonder how the Judge liked your lawer lying to his face about your motives. This speaks alot of the character of WAM.

A rational person realizes that Humans are a part of the natural cycle, in fact,as the result of our agriculture/ landuse/ tree harvesting/ house building practices, we directly affect animal populations, quite often with expanding populations. To leave these animal populations to be adjusted by starvation and disease is far from "humane".

Trapping is the only effective managment tool for many furbearers. It is not barbaric and cruel. Every effort is taken to NOT damage the animal.

There is NO "greener" clothing artical than fur. It is a renewable resource. Whats not too love?

I don't expect this to dent your mentality. I expect you'll put on your oil based coat as you leave your house for a drive to the store for some lettuce for supper, while thinking how much more enlightened you are than I.

But the fact is, you are far from "Humane"

And I will act accountable for our part in nature.

I am Humane

God put the animals on this earth for us to eat. Hunting is more than a sport......it's what puts food on a lot of people's tables.

Quoting KurtJLane "Trapping is the only effective managment tool for many furbearers. It is not barbaric and cruel. Every effort is taken to NOT damage the animal. " Don't you mean the animals fur, as to not lose any profit? And how many people eat these animals? Isn't that what hunting is, for food? Maybe 200 years ago when there were no supermarkets!! Trapping is not hunting, it's baiting and any moron can do that, as can drive around in trucks and shoot at deer or moose when they see them. Heater hunters. Chasing partially wounded shot animals is bad enough, but baiting a hungy animal and it spends the last of it's life trying like hell to get free is for cowards. Put your own foot in of them and see what it feels like.

some people can't afford to go to the supermarket and buy food....and where do you think that food comes from...it's not grown, animals are killed for it.

The judge's questioning about proof that the lynx were actually injured demonstrates either a lack of knowledge or a personal bias regarding the ESA and/or trapping. Simply trapping lynx, whether or not they are injured, is a violation of the ESA. It would seem to me that the trappers would have to prove not only that lynx are not injured but also that lynx are not trapped. The burden of proof should be on the trappers to prove that they're not violating the ESA, not on those who want the ESA enforced. Trappers have been trying to prove that they deserve an incidental take permit for several years now and have failed miserably. For the record, the tired claim that trapping is the only effective management tool for many furbearers is nonsense. Most wildlife are either self-regulating or are eaten by those higher up in the food chain. This has been going on since long before trapping even existed. Most wildlife don't need management by humans. They just need to be left alone. This includes predators such as wolves, mountain lions, coyotes, fox, etc. (all animals that are favored targets of trappers and hunters) that are needed to keep prey species in check.

Kurt espouses the same spin our state does. Truly, it is our state and the trappers who are lying and I believe Judge Woodcock has the wherewithal to do his research and see where the truth lies. Our lawyer used facts and pictures taken from Maine's wildlife biologists in large part. We have expert witnesses who have Ph.d's and have trapped lynx for research. In their declarations they talk at great length about post trapping trauma and how it is almost impossible to identify an injured lynx without examination and x-rays. Some of the leghold trapped lynx died shortly after being trapped, either from starvation or predation because they couldn't feed or protect themselves when injured, and of course, the state says these are not trapping mortalities. My final point is that even the state acknowledges in its application for an incidental take permit that there are likely lynx trapped and not reported. Of the 42 lynx trapped illegally since 1999 less than half were reported by trappers. The majority were found out either by people in the area of the incident or by the trapper talking about it to someone and that person reported it. This tiny minority who is backed by our state wildlife department unfortunately cannot or chooses not to evolve with the rest of society. They are also operating illegally and refuse to even admit that. I do suspect the judge will confirm this with a ruling of liability against the state and trappers by the end of this case. Kurt can rant and rave and call me names, sticks and stones. WAM has over 800 members who are all Maine citizens and we are growing. We are not funded by any out of state organization. We are Maine and we are here to stay. It is about time our state agency speaks for all of Maine and not just this tiny group. Progress will come, whether Kurt and others like him want it or not.We have tried very hard to make change within the legislative system, but the deck is constantly stacked in favor of the consumptive community, right now 12-1. Progress will be when all of Maine is represented in decisions on wildlife. Progress is not anthropomorphizing. Progress is understanding that killing anything for fun is fundamentally wrong, just like progress measured in the past let us realize that women and minorities are equal to white men. White men didn't like that then and it seems they don't like change now either. My bet, every single one of the trappers in the courtroom yesterday voted for our country to stay in the same unhealthy, stagnant, undemocratic condition it has been in for the last eight years. Thank god that the other guy won!

Oh, and WAM has a Master Maine Hunting Guide on our Board of Directors and he's pretty fed up with the talk about us being anti hunting. What we are against is breaking federal laws and not treating wildlife with respect, as well as the lying and covering up a lot of these guys take part in, not every one, but many.

daryld your rant gets old after a while, you know as well as I do once trapping is a ban in the state you anti's will want to go after hunting and then the next thing you know fisherman are hurting a worm or a fish by using hooks, do us all a favor and just go away.

You are anthropomorphizing. Period. And you apparently have a "Master Maine Guide" completely buffaloed. I was pushing rubber on the Dead, Kennebec and West Branch while you were in diapers. I also guided hunting and fishing back when the only "Master Maine Guide" was Wayne Boscowicz, who bestowed the title upon himself. And you continue your anthropomorphic "argument."

Maybe it's time another group arose to directly focus on WAM and the others. An amicus brief and testimony sounds like it would've been effectively useful.

And now you're dipping into the RNC "liar liar" bucket against the State of Maine. Won't work.

"Progress will be when all of Maine is represented on decisions on wildlife." Ahhh, a non-consumptive use license, huh? To help defray the costs of management lost from hunting, fishing, trapping, guide's licenses and other fees when you finally reach the goals of outlawing consumptive uses?

Ya. It's time for a new "group" to directly take on WAM with a few factually based amicus briefs. You're on.

Oh, and the "tiny minority" that won't "evolve" with you is going to get bigger real fast.

Since another commenter asked, I'll tell you how you trap and release a lynx in a foothold without any damage. Trappers and biologists do it the very same way; by using a snare pole, aka catchpole or dog-catcher pole. If you've ever watched "Animal Cops" you've seen them use snare poles on housecats that are feral without any harm coming to them. Unlike coyotes, beavers and raccoons, bobcat and lynx are not trap fighters. This means that after a few initial test tugs and leaps, the bobcat/lynx settles down in a crouch and lets his camouflage hide him. They just sit there with a heavy cold bracelet on their paw. Wearing a heavy bracelet that might be chilly, depending on weather conditions, but animals have fur and tough pads on the bottom of their paws. Just how cold it is on the paw is debatable, but I know that when I ice my wrist after straining it, my discomfort comes from from the ice pack being directly on my bare skin, and lessens to a mere annoyance when I put a thin cotton sleeve on my arm. Since fur is a much better insulator than cotton, my personal belief is that a bobcat/lynx isn't feeling significant discomfort from the trap's temperature. Traps themselves look like scary devices, but much like a doctor's needle, aren't as bad when you actually see them in action. Trappers getting their fingers caught while setting foothold traps is a common occurrence, and they do sting, but they do not break people's fingerbones. They sting a person because human hands lack hard, tough pads and a protective layer of fur. Also, traps are usually buried under dirt, snow and/or ice, or are underwater when triggered by an animal, and lose power pushing up through these barriers. The trapper feels the full-force but the animal does not. I have never seen a bobcat with so much as broken skin in a foothold trap. The only indicator of a trap is typically fur that is creased in a line on the top of the paw. Most trappers check daily, as a trap that already has an animal in it cannot catch a new one until you remove the previous animal. The trapper wants to also re-set traps that have been fired but not caught anything to get them back in working order asap. The 24 hour check rule is useful, as it allows trappers to respond to family emergencies, etc without getting some sort of fine or penalty. The rule itself, as just explained, is not the incentive to check daily.

The traps set for bobcats, using bobcat urine and other lures, may attract lynx, but lynx are bigger, stronger animals. The small traps set for bobcats is not going to harm a lynx, which may be able to extract himself on his first surprise leap after the trap has fired. The lynx that do stay in a trap sometimes could have pulled out if they had only fought, but many times they just sit down. The trapper simply sees that he/she has caught a lynx, identifiable by the giant snowshoe paws, it's large size and distinctive tail...and retrieves the catch-pole from his/her vehicle. Catch poles are standard equipment. While the lynx is safely restrained by the pole, the trapper then depresses the foothold's spring with his/her boot. The lynx is now free of the trap, and the trapper can watch how it walks and bears it's weight. If the lynx seems to be injured, in any way, or have a disease such as parvo, rabies, mange or distemper, he/she can call wildlife or game officials to come get it. If the lynx is feisty and healthy, the trapper simply opens the loop on the pole and the lynx is free. Biologists foothold trap lynx, otter, and other species to collar, release or re-locate animals all the time. That's right, biologists use footholds. They are simply restraining devices for land animals larger than rats/weasels. The only reason trappers are demonized is because very few people trap in the US, less than 1% of the population. The general public is ignorant about trapping, and has been made afraid of it by tales from the days of pioneers, Indian fighting and slavery. Comparing the trappers of the 1800's to today's trappers and calling it bad is as ridiculous as blaming today's cotton farmers for slavery. Everybody knows a deer hunter, and can ask a deer hunter questions, but with trapping, it's hard to find a person who does it and can answer your questions and alleviate your fears. I thought trapping was bad before I became a biology student and saw it done in the field. Trappers do it as a hobby because they generally love nature and the outdoors, they care about species as a whole, they just don't sentimentalize and romanticize the individual members of the species. Trappers want a healthy lynx population, and they like to assist biologists and conservation officers. Their reports on animal movements, numbers harvested in different regions, etc, helps scientists to understand this creature better. They pay license fees that support biological study and conservation. There is absolutely no incentive for a Maine trapper to harvest a lynx, as no tannery would accept one without a CITIES tag on it, no fur buyer would risk his license and jail time over a lynx pelt, and no auction house accepts bobcat/lynx pelts that don't have proper tags on them. Tags are provided by the state wildlife agency, and are not provided for lynx in Maine, as they are not legal harvest. The fact that trap size and trap check times are regulated by the state means the lynx is already protected when it comes to footholds. No lawsuit about it is necessary. You can release a lynx from a foothold, but you cannot release a lynx from the bumper of a car! If it really was about protecting animals, there would be a push to ban vehicles in the areas that lynx dwell. Trappers are not happy about these proposed "restrictions" because they are a thinly veiled attempt to try and stop trapping in general, for any reason.

So, if trapping is demonized wrongly, you may wonder why. Long ago a white man who called himself 'Grey Owl" and pretended to be an Indian, lied to crowds in England about life in the new world and trapping. Even after he was exposed as a 100% Caucasian charlatan, his lies and made up horror stories about trapping persisted. His book was a best-seller, and ever since the 1800's, groups of people have tried to make money off of an ignorant public, begging for donations to "stop horror, stop cruelty." I've seen trapping done in the course of my biology study and I can tell you that it's nothing like what the anti-trappers describe. The videos out there on places like You-Tube were animal snuff films with altered and tampered traps that were de-bunked as set-up and staged long ago. The media no longer plays such films on the news channels because the films were determined to be not genuine examples of trapping, but staged snuff films. If you examine the "Crying Shame" video on You-Tube, one can clearly see the water line of the fish-tank the film-makers were using to depict a beaver in a trap. It's a fake setup for all of these propaganda films, and the fact that there was an attempt to submit "blogs" as evidence here makes me shake my head at just how gullible people can be. Blogs can be made my anyone, and I'm hopeful that the judge will continue to be fair concerning this matter. There's too much hate against trappers and fur-wearers right now to expect the kind of cooperation and understanding between conservationists and and trappers like there was in Teddy Roosevelt's day, but, hopefully, with some education and awareness, trappers will be appreciated again.

very well said ts_princess

Trapping is barbaric and cruel, period. Argue whether or not it should be legal, but you can't argue that it is not torture for an animal...duh.

who really cares about torture on an animal say for example, coyotes, who come out in the daylight, and scare the daylights of a 5 year old waiting for a bus, with parent there, snarling, and for an animal that tortures domesticated dogs, I come home at night just about dark and when I step out of my car you can hear the packs of coyotes in the woods yipping and having a grand ol time, you can tell they just had a fresh kill, whether it be a local cat, chicken or deer, and I don't live to far from town.

John Glowa,

Just how do you think animal populations "self regulate"? That is a foolish notion. Starvation and disease regulate, period. Have you ever seen a mangey fox after it's suffered for months? That is inhumane.

You are just another "evolved" person who thinks they have no impact on the natural world by their daily lifestle.

Wake up and take resonsability for your impact here.

like progress measured in the past let us realize that women and minorities are equal to white men. White men didn't like that then and it seems they don't like change now either.

MY My Daryl, you are a racist. And I thought every confused liberal strived to prove they are not.

Instead of torturing animals Kurt, why don't you buy a dictionary. Your understanding of the meaning of racism is equal to your understanding of the words compassion, evolution, and Bangoreans understanding of the law. You who are for trapping are simplistic and simple minded in your world view. Libertarianism gone amok, to say the least. If we left the world to the likes of you all we would live in a vast wasteland of a dying environment and raped natural world. I would suggest you all climb back under the rocks you crawled out from.

That's environmentalist Libertarian, bub. And the rest of the rant isn't worth responding to. Suffice it to say I have a pretty good handle on the MRSA, CFR's and Constitution as well as EPA regs. Now look what you've gone and done. Created a new organization to protect the traditional Maine rights of PEOPLE instead of animals. I'd say we hit the ground some time next summer unless an amicus brief is in order to the First Circuit, if it gets that far.

northernmainemom - ummm....you have a choice to live where there is wildlife...the wildlife doesn't...if you don't like it then move to the city.

move to the city, where someone is more likely to harm my child and I can do nothing or live with the wildlife, which is something that can be taken care of , think not!

getalife,

I do not torture animals, and I do own a dictionary., but perhaps you don't, so here is the definition of racism.

racism : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

This fits daryl's statment about white men. It seems your understanding of the meaning of racism is equal to your understanding of mans place in this world.

I find your view completly ignorant in regards to our natural resources.

One of the biggest problems in America today are people who refuse to take responsability for themselves.

I would suggest you climb out from under the rock you've crawled under and learn the factual truth.

I caught my big toe in one of these traps, it hurt!

ts_princess verry well said. I can relate because my son is a trapper. I go with him often, so i see for myself how its done

..it isnt cruel or inhumain.