In Maine, bishop pans gay marriage

And how much preceation has Bishop Richard Malone been involved in?

Make that procreation.

I guess I'm just not a good practicing Roman Catholic!

Shut up Mainelyme! Nobody cares if you're a good Catholic or not! Are you bored or just dumb? 2:35 AM. you got a lot to do don't you? Don't go sticking sticks where you shouldn't!!

As a priest told me once, the reason why women couldn't be on birth control pills is the fact that the church couldn't get future people to flock to the church. Just as the fact that the Catholic church decreed no meat on Friday, was the fact that a fisherman couldn't sell his fish so the church decreed no meat on Friday and the fisherman flourished and his family went to the Church. So say now with Gay marriages, if one can't contribute to the Church, what good are they? What hypocirsy, I should know, I use to go to one.

Gays already get the same rights as married couples. Why do they need the term marriage also? Maybe deep down inside they question the morality of what they're doing and feel they have to prove something to straight couples. When are we going to take a stand against evil in this world?

The Bishop said, "strip marriage of an essential component, namely the ability and obligation to procreate,”

Does that mean that all returning soldiers who've lost the ability to have children will be refused marriage?

Is he telling married people they aren't married in his opinion if they have not had children?

Is he saying women who have gone through menopause at an early age can not be married?

Albert Einstein said the more he learned the more he learned he didn't know. What would be the bishop's definition of a man and how would he define a woman?

Workingpoor, if gays get the same rights as married couples, why can't they marry in Maine and in half of the other states? It's laughable that you consider homosexuality "evil." Homosexuals are no threat to anybody.

workingpoor:

I'm up late because I'm recovering from heart surgery and facing a gall bladder operation next week..

I'm sixty eight years old I should be able to go to bed when I want to regardless of what you or the Bishop of Maine has to say.

You really have your nose up other people's asses don't you!

You'll never "pro create" that way, dearie!

rr, they do have unions in America why do they need the term marriage? Being gay is a person's choice , but don't mock what I hold dear! This is one issue you will not shove down the throats of the people of Maine! The voices of a few cannot control the masses on this issue!

And furthermore, you don't do it with sticks.

Get the Bishop to teach you his Roman Catholic way.

Working poor?

You'd be working rich if you weren't so busy pro creating .

Too many meds for u Mainelyme! Pro creating we get your point you've only said it three times already! Please take the little red one and sleep for a while will you?

workingpoor

Why are you religious zealots so engrossed in things being shoved down your throats?

Maybe sex education should be taught in Catholic Schools, too.

During formal classes that is!

There's a big difference between tolerance and approval, and I think legalizing gay marriages crosses that line for many people, myself included. Civil Unions are about as far as I care to go on this issue. It gives gays protection without outright saying that homosexuality is normal and a good thing, which to me it is neither.

I don't take anything other than blood thinners, and pukes like you have already made my blood thin enough!

workingpoor:

What's the matter, rectory workers still don't get much weekly pay?

Tell the Bishop that you're pro creating.

If he doesn't already know!

workingpoor:

I can see by your intelligence that your parents pro created, too!

Were they closely related?

In their Catholic belief, I mean!

All you would be dictators of other people's lives should wear a big campaign button stating;

"I PRO CREATE!"

That will cut out a lot of the fore play and you can get right to the point(s).

I can see right now that Cain and Able never should have taught Adam and Eve how to do it!

Like God, thank heavens all of my doctors are Jewish!

It would be deadly for me if any of them had to stop in the middle of open heart surgery to pro create!

workingpoor:

Yoo hoo?

Is the Bishop still in the parlour eating bread and honey?

gays make the biggest fuss...and it seems they force us to have to listen to them! I get tired of hearing of their personal lives as well...gross!!

I'm a Baptist and I fully agree with workingpoor and the catholics on this issue. Ever since the gays came out of the closet they have been wanting more and more. Live your freaking lifestyle but don't try to change the lifestlye of the rest of us. And that nonsense about veterans losing their ability to have kids after an injury or a woman after menopause is just stupid. This Nation is going to Hell in a handbasket and the gay and lesbian community, along with a bunch of atheists are leading the way.

Mainelyme~~You need to keep your comments clean or just do us all a favor and fly the hell out of here.

skipperskitchen:

Clean your own kitchen.

The health officers are on their way!

Oh, all these little minds getting to express their little opinions.

Small things amuse small people!

Pro Creators;

Write to Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins about this.

But, do them both a favor and spare the details!

People are going to be together NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES...when two adults make a decision to join in marriage...they should be able to do so. Today there are SO many types of couples out there..from gays, bigamists, lesbians, relatives, bi racial, bi cultural, trans gender...whatever.

God is the only one who can actually judge each person on judgement day...so if these adults choose an aternative lifestyle...LET THEM answer to HIM in the end of their life. I don't feel any religion should dictate to a grown person and the way society is today we need to just be the managers of our OWN LIVES!

Excuse me while I read the obituaries.

Some of my Catholic former relatives pro created too, and I want to see how far it got them!

Oh, and how many off spring did Jesus have?

And please don't say all of you pro creators.

That would be an insult to what appears to have been a quite decent man.

Surprise.

It's 8:30 in the morning and still no obituaries.

Does that mean no body died or that everybody is just busy pro creating?

Well, I really have to lie down for a little while.

Alone, as that's the way I choose to live.

In the meantime, why don't all of you just go pro create yourselves!

Isn't this sort of an oxymoron? The Cathoilic Church is opposed to gay marriage -----probably not because two blue toothbrushes in the same cup can be confusing---but because sex between two males is wrong----and yet, sex between priests and alter boys is OK (and until recently hidden ---read, accepted by the church)

workingpoor, you are totally wrong, uneducated, and obviously to lazy to find facts to support your argument.

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/og97016.pdf

that contains a nice list of guarantees from the federal government that do not apply to couples not married (i.e. civil unions don't count). that's why they need the term marriage. do yourself a favor and actually investigate what you're screaming and wailing against.

gays are taxed in the same way by the federal government as anyone else, so why should they be treated any different under law and governmental oversight?

in 1967, we made great strives forward as a nation when interracial marriage was legalized by Loving vs. Virginia. today, we think nothing of it, and our world didn't end. the same will happen for gays, whether you like it or not.

grow up.

Statistically, most marriages fail, so it may be safe to say most married people are miserable....why not let gays be miserable, too?

As a Catholic-Christian I am going to try and educate the ignorant (ie: Mainelyme).

To claim that marriage is a civil right open to all forms of relationships is a misnomer. Marriage is an institution that predates civilization, ordained by God, and exclusive to one man and one woman who are given the responsibility to procreate the human race, and to nurture, educate, and pass on shared values and mores to their offspring. To redefine marriage to include same-sex couples is to strip marriage of an essential component, namely the ability and obligation to procreate. To strip marriage of this essential component is to render marriage meaningless and open it up to endless revision and redefinition.

Marriage, for us as Catholic~Christians, is a Holy Sacrament, a vocation and a vehicle to salvation. However, our objections to same-sex marriage in the public square are based not only on religious tenets but also on human reason and the good of society at-large. Marriage, as we know it, has been preserved, rewarded, and recognized by the state in numerous ways because the state has long recognized the foundational nature of traditional marriage to the good of a nation and entire civilizations. To support and encourage strong families is to support the building of a healthy and productive societal structure that is best equipped to raise and rear children.

EqualityMaine they don't want the same rights for gay and lesbian, they want special rights. they want to make it were if a gay and lesbian doesn't get a job or houseing the can scream and say it was because I am gay and lesbian. That isn't right.

Mainelyme, you are on a roll today. Get some rest and have a good day. :)

Relatives Lincolnmom? Are you saying incest is running amuck in our state? Would you please elborate for me?

I think, and probably other do also, that Mainelyme is sicker than he knows. ;-)

If this is a reflection of the Maine attitude then that is scarey. Do some of you have afilter between your brain, hand and mouth?

When the campaigning started for the presidency, I started to read and join the Bangor news comment section. I knew people were angry and frustrated as they usually are during an election. Comment sections and blogs are a means for people to vent and post their comments. We all have a need to feel heard. But I also believe that this is a forum that can really bring out who someone really is. What is in their hearts.

For weeks now I have read some of the most vile disgusting attacks on people from many comment sections. I would like to believe that as a people we are more civilized than that. Right now, from what I see, we will reap what we sow.

Mainelyme...I wish you good health. But for someone who is in the health situation that you are in....you are mighty brave. You should be worrying about your soul. You are walking on thin water.

Bishop Malone...if you read this thank you for writing the letter.

Signing off for good. I'll be praying for all of you and for this country. It really needs them.

WOW, what a cluster on a Monday morning. The issue is allowing people who are Gay to be able to legally married. Not just a commital ceremony, not legal. Why say that people that are gay it's a choice? Do you think that people want to be persecuted and murdered for choosing to be gay? Why be so warped? If that is the case why don't we just keep murdering women and men for being women and men? Isn't that domestic violence and hate crimes? Why is it perceived that gay people and others who are perceived as different is such a threat to the status quo? All of history, people have been slaughtered and persecuted for being different....why don't we stop with a simple rule, do unto others as you have others do unto you..isn't that the crux of Judaism and Christianity? Lets not keep showing our ignorance and show respect and dignity for others who just plain different from ourselves....this hating the sin and loving the sinner, is a crock. When Sodom and Gommorah was blasted, it was using sex to have people capitulate to the will of others, it wasn't consensual sex, so that soapbox don't wash the clothes. So, for the bishop to say that procreation is the crux of marriage, that dog don't hunt either, where the other posting pointed out, I guess the Catholic church would be hard pressed to deny those marriages, even the old couple that want the sanctity of Church marriage to pave the way to heaven would be denied. Sad state of affairs!!

Actually Whitnmeme I do know of a couple whom are first cousins and are married...they have 3 children. It used to bother me...but I have chosen to mind my own business and live MY LIFE. They WILL have to answer to their choices someday, and it is not my place to judge.. Like I said above we need to concentrate on and manage our own lives....not the lives of others.

I also will join Elizabethann and sign off for good.

“We have started the conversation with voters because what we know is we have to change the hearts and minds of voters and that takes some significant amount of time,” said Betsy Smith, executive director of EqualityMaine.

Good luck with that, Betsy!!! You will not change the hearts and minds of many voters. You will not change the Word of God which will stand forever!!!

musician: the word of your god is not the ruling doctrine of this nation. in fact, our constitution protects us from it.

dunno where you get the whacked idea that it is somehow the governing document of our land.

peace...

Marriage between two of the same sex is NOT a 'civil right'. If it were, legislation would not be required.

RocklandPhil

So, what you're telling me is that the decision to uphold civil rights for interracial couples isn't a right because it took a court decision to make it legal in all states?

I was lying in the hospital bed last week and looked up to see a very big smile wearing a Roman Collar.

I muttered, "Oh, my God."

The smile got even wider.

I had told the admittance nurse at Beth Israel Hospital that I was Roman Catholic.

The good looking Black priest and I spoke for a few minutes, and then he asked me to join him in prayer, which I unselfishly did figuring the poor guy could probably use one, too.

I got so engrossed in his standing over me and sincerely asking God to heal my body that he had to prompt me to say, "Amen."

Which I promptly did.

I apologized for any possible offence but, I explained that he sounded more like a "Christian Scientist."

I ran into him in the hallway the next day but, he never came back to my room in the seven more days I was there.

I was happy to have converted yet another one!

The biggest issue it seem to me is over the term "Marriage"....a religious term that signifies a union between man and woman...and that the State(govt) should not be interfering with these terms and definitions. However...try and get married or divorced w/o including government. Big buisness for lawyers is what marriage is. If more than 50% of all first marriages end in divorce and 75% of second marriages end the same way, tell me who comes out profitable from marriage.........Not the religious groups.

How about this for an New idea....Let's call marriage what it is... 2 Completely different lives trying to work and live together and deal with all the complexities of life. And why not admit that this is a very difficult undertaking only to be done by the strongest of wills. So with this knowledge of the fraility of both human nature and by design , marriage...why dont we as a society do something to lower Lawyer incomes....Let's treat marriage like ...Joining the Military....You sign up for let's say 5-6 years...and are committed to this...at the end u have the freedom to either "Seperate from service"....or simply "Re-up"...re-sign on for another 5-6 years. Would save alot of stress, money and time...never mind the utter bitterness that goes along with a Divorce...probably would even save lives too(domestic abuses) . Anyway, the point is that , we need not focus on the word, but rather the entire institution...and make it better for all.

As for the condition I am in let me just say that my peace has been made with God years and years ago.

I told a dear friend in Bangor on the cell phone last night that neither of us have ever deliberately hurt anyone, so we really don't have anything to worry about!

I pray that others can make that as a sincere statement, also!

Amen!

A few people are talking about 'choice' being the end all be all of being gay/lesbian. I have made quite a few 'choices' in my life. I made the 'choice' to enter into a marriage and I made a 'choice' to have children. I did not make the 'choice' of who the man was that I fell in love with. I made a 'choice' to leave that marriage through divorce - breaking the part of the vows that said "until death do you part". I did not make a 'choice' to be 'heterosexual' nor did I make a 'choice' to be 'homosexual'. I made a 'choice' to pursue a career and I made a 'choice' to end it. I made a 'choice' to eat breakfast this morning and a 'choice' as to what I had for that breakfast. I did not make a 'choice' to be hungry. I made a 'choice' to enter into another monogamous relationship - I did not make of who I fell in love with - it happened. I made a 'choice' to move to a place where I have rights - the same rights I had when I was married - to have my relationship recognized by law.

A number of people have made a large issue out of the intimate part of a loving relationship. They are disgusted and 'grosses' out. The question I have is: Is the intimate part of a loving relationship of straight something else that disgusts you? I don't spend my time thinking about anyone's intimacy in their relationship.

A few people have used the word 'lifestyle' - could you define that please? What is a gay/lesbian lifestyle and what is a straight lifestyle? Please share it with me - I don't think my 'lifestyle' has changed. I still work, cook, sleep, do laundry, do dishes, take out the trash ..... etc.

musician;

Do you play the skin flute?

Face it folks, the genie is out of the bottle, and it ain't goin' back in. Same-sex marriage is inevitable. It's legal in a few states which means the rest of the states are going to have to deal with it. Not surprisingly, the passage of Prop 8 in California has galvanized the gays and their friends and families. Now they're as actively motivated as the fundies and papists have always been. The next generation considers sexual orientation as unimportant , and more and more of them are reaching voting age every day. In the long run the prohibition to same-sex marriage is headed into the same dustbin as prohibitions against interracial marriage. You can moan about it all you want, but it's still going to happen.

Bishop Malone should be spending his time helping the victims of his own organization instead of meddling in marriage, an institution that he himself has forsworn. You no play da game, you no make da rules.

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out how a male god, with no wife or girlfriend, ends up with a son. Doesn't that mean there's now multiple Christian gods? It's all very confusing. Maybe workingpoor can clear that up for us.

It is I, again.

No rest for the righteous!

I can talk-I'm in New York.

Please stop pro creating just long enough to listen.

The Bishop of Maine has openly admitted that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is all about power, money and sex, and not necessarily in that order.

I always regale my gay friends by saying that if I had known how many Catholic priests were sexually molesting children then I would have gone to church more often when I was small.

Of course, I truly jest about a very serious criminal matter.

In all actuallity, I would have gone even less, as I've always been good at dodging the bullet!

tedlick, I'm not tell you that at all. Stop absorbing all that liberal rage . It makes you defensive and causes you to see things that are not there. What I'm saying is that a 'right' is a 'right' and should not have to be decided by law, vote, or reforendum, or whatever -----or by Justices who legislatate from the bench. That's all I said.

RocklandPhil: i never vote liberal, but can no longer support the republicans: however, that's a different issue.

However, your statement makes little sense to me. I think that married people of interracial makeup have the same guarantees under the law as any other married couple of homogeneous race, but that would not be the case without court intervention (Loving vs. Virginia, 1967). So, how can you say that a right "should not have to be decided by law, vote, or reforendum [sic], or whatever" when so often, that's how rights are granted and protected?

skipperskitchen:

Good luck at trying to educate Mainelyme.

St. John's- I mean All Saint's School on State Street in Bangor couldn't do it, and neither could Garland Street Junior High - I mean William S. Cohen Middlel School -on Garland Street in Bangor.

Thank heaven for the Bangor Public Library and Life's School of Hard Knocks.

Those two fine educational systems, among several others, have prepared Mainelyme to live successfully in this world with other people.

Don't you feel that you too should enroll in all of them as of today?

I'd include the old Bangor Daily News as a practice media for my learning how to read but, then I'd have to explain why I didn't grow up to vote Republican!

tedlick,

I would suggest that you actually read the Constitution. It doesn't say anything about protecting us from God's word. The clause in the Constitution that talks about religion is the Establishment Clause. Its states that the government cannot "establish" a religion that we all must follow. It actually protects religion from the government. The founding fathers didn't want a situation like there was in England where you basically had to be a member of the Church of England or you would have a rather rough time. That's why the Pilgrams left England for the Netherlands and then America. This whole notion of seperation of church and state is liberal bs. No where in the Constitution does it state that religion cannot be involved in government.

SethFortier

Cool... next, Sharia law can be imposed over us by your own definition. That'll be just great. One set of fundie law to replace another... no difference really.

Using law to enforce religious ideas IS establishing a religion.

Using law to enforce religious ideas is not establishing a religion. It looks to me like you also need to read a dictionary.

This is why the Catholic Church has ceased to be relevant.

How would you define it then? What IS enforcing religion by law if not establishing a religion?

How would you feel if our government decided to implement Sharia law on the land?

Would that be any different to you? What would cause it to be any different?

Just becaus a man and woman get married does not mean they WILL procreate... and many people are procreating that are not married... I think that arguement is moot..... Not allowing same sex marriage is discrimination...

Seth, please give us an example of a law that enforces religious ideas. The only law I can think of is that churches don't have to pay taxes, going back to the separation of church and state argument.

sewmama... you said to gays "Live your freaken lifestyle but don't try to change the lifestyle of the rest of us." Well isn't it the other way around... aren't those of us in male/female relationships or no relationship shoving our lifestyle down the throat of homosexuals?? I mean maybe we should just ship them all off to farms and change their names like we did with the indians... or maybe we should give them shock treatment to change their brain waves like we did with the mentally challenged... I mean come on here people... why do you care so much what your "neighbor" is doing... I don't approve of public displays of affection regardless of if it is man/woman, woman/woman or man/man... and what you do once you close your door to your own home is none of my business as long as it is not hurting anyone..... I agree with the argument about the ability to have kids or lack there of due to illness or injury is a very good argument against the reason behind the bishop's arguement.... Lets all grow up and play nice in the sandbox...

Let me clarify a bit. In his 9:19 post tedlick said that the word of God is not the ruling doctrine of this nation. Which I actually agree with. But then he said that the Constitution protects us from it. That I disagree with. The clause in the Constitution is the "Establishment Clause" which basically says that the government will not establish an offical religion that we all must follow. I further explain that in my 10:58 post.

Tedlick answers that using law to enforce religious ideas is establishing a religion. I also disagree with that. First of all which religion are you establishing by enforcing a "religious law?" Christianity, Judiaism, Islam, Buddism,Sikh?

The government couldn't impose Sharia law because that is a product of Islam. So at that point you would be establishing Islam as the state religion. That is constitutional forbidden.

So anne I think you should be asking tedlick your question not me. As far as churches not paying taxes, I'm not sure that you would call that a religious idea.

Seth, I'm asking you because I understand tedlick's point but not yours. The anti-establishment clause goes both ways because it protects both religious and non-religious individuals. When you say that establishing Islam as the state religion would be impossible because it's constitutionally forbidden, that is true. It is also true that establishing Christianity or any other religion as the state religion would be constitutionally forbidden.

I would also say to tedlick this, Thou shall not kill and Thou shall not steal are two of the Ten Commandments. There are laws againest both of these things. So have you established religion by enforcing laws againest murder and stealing?

I looked up marriage in Wikipedia. It says that marriage predates written history. It also says that same sex marriages were outlawed in the Roman Empire in 342. It wasn't until the 1500's that Roman Catholics decided that a marriage had to be performed by a priest to be legit. So one could argue that marriage isn't a religious idea.

So, if the gov't can't impose Sharia law, how does it justify a ban on gay marriage that's happening state by state all over this land? Where is the difference?

What rational decision outside of religion is used to justify such action?

And: they tried the same thing with interracial marriage before Loving vs. Virginia: it doesn't work. The courts will have a say on this, and fundies will lose.

Your right anne. And Christianity isn't the official religion of our country. We don't have an official religion because of the Establishment Clause. Besides the Establishment Clause doen't protect individuals per say. It protects religion from government. If you establish one religion as the official religion than the government would be able to abolish those other religions and hold people who follow them. That is what happened in England. The Church of England was the state religion. People of other religious backgrounds were persecuted for their beliefs. The founding fathers wanted people of all religions to be able to practice without fear that the government would persecute them.

"It protects religion from government."

Yes. But, if government wants to implement law based in religion, where is protection for the individual from government sanctioned religious law?

I understand your argument at heart, but it fails to show how implementing law based on religious idea is NOT establishing religion by the government.

As for murder and theft: you're not that dense. Both of those issues directly relate to the victimization of another. Being gay doesn't make anyone your victim. There is no malice in forethought.

Elizabethann and Skipperskitchen: Please do not sign off for good. That's what Satan wants. The mockings and scoffings, the ridicule and accusations, etc. we are facing from the lost is nothing new--even the Lord Himself experienced this. And remember, we wrestle not against flesh and blood....Our battle is with unseen foes, not flesh and blood people. (The people are just pawns and tools in the enemy's hands.) I've read both of your postings. You are being used of the Lord to get the truth out. You have both ministered to me. And others have said you've ministered to them as well. Please know that I have been struggling, too. But remember what Romans 10:13-15 says: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that prech the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things." We've been commissioned by the Lord to go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Therefore, we ought to obey God rather than man. Therefore we need to seek to please God, and not worry about what man thinks. He's given us a voice--His voice--and we need to use it. We're called to be salt and light. We're called to be His ambassadors. We're called to fight the good fight of faith, to stay the course, to finish the race, to make full proof of our ministry. Please know that I, too, became discouraged. As of last night, I had decided to give it up. But the Lord dealt with me. He reminded me of Elijah and how he, too, had grown battle-weary, had run away, and had wanted to die. Please read about it in 1 Kings chapter 19. Also, remember when the Samaritans didn't receive Jesus and how, when James and John saw this, they asked the Lord if He wanted them to command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, and how the Lord turned to James and John and rebuked them saying, "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." Well, the other night I was kinda feeling like James and John and said to the Lord, "These people aren't listening. They don't care about You. They don't want to receive You. They are mocking and laughing and want to send You away." The Lord then reminded me of His love and compassion for them, and how He hasn't come to destroy lives, but to save them, and how it's not those who are well that need a Physician, but those who are sick. And He also reminded me of how later on the Samaritan woman at the well got saved--and how many other Samaritan's also got saved. We are called to be watchman and to warn people of the dangers. What they do with the warnings are between them and God. But we are called to warn and warn we must--in spite of all the Sanballats and Tobiahs, etc. (Please read Ezekiel 3:17-19 and Ezekiel 33:1-11. These are our marching orders. The Lord called me back into the battle. Elizabethann and Skipperskitchen, I pray you will hear Him calling you back into the battle as well.) Please pray the Lord will strengthen me and I will pray He will do the same for both of you, God bless you both. And don't forget: The battle belongs to the Lord. Some plant, some water, but it's God who gives the increase. His Word will not return to Him void. It will accomplish whatever He has purposed for it to accomplish. We don't need to see the results, we just need to be obedient to what He has called us to do. <><

Seth, your point that Thou Shalt Not Kill is an interesting one. I think though that because many of the ideas set forth in the 10 Commandments, such as not stealing and not lying, are really across-the-board social and religious norms, they can't really be attributed to any one religion, and as such could be considered "non-religious."

Tedlick I know I'm not that dense. And it doesn't matter what they relate to. You said that imposing laws based on religious ideas is establishing religion. You could argue that those two commandments are religious in nature because God gave them to Moses as part of the law he wanted his people(the Jews) to follow.

You maybe right anne but they clearly have been considered as coming from God. And God is clearly at the center of most religious arguements.

Mainelyme, What is your thing anyway? No one cares about your relgious affiliations, but thanks for the sarcasm and insult to a Roman Catholic Priest, really needed to know that one. Why is it so threatening to you to have other people to be a part of the discussion that until the early 1900's women and blacks couldn't even vote in this country.!? Prejudice and bigotry comes in all shapes, sizes and sexual persuasion even religious persuasion, when lambs will follow anything, then people who are not lambs, get slaughtered. What a wonderful world this would be if only one TRUE race existed? World WarII was partly fought on that front...but then again the US declined to help the European jews until a light was shown on the problem...and our American Japanese people, they were put up in concentration camps for the loyalty and being different....Isn't this a good Christian country? Whatever the wind blows....so why not accept marriage as a ceremony legally binding two people who want to be together whether their agenda includes children or not? If it's a matter of children, then I know alot of gay couples who have adopted children that no one wanted, how about that for recycling folks?

Basing law on victimization is not basing law on any religious pretext.

Relating law to victimization removes the need for religious backing. Thus, we have no law relating to adultery, lying (save for perjury), having another god before him, etc... The only portions of the 10 commandments that is translated through law relates to victimization. Buddhists believe the same way: and that is an atheistic philosophy.

One doesn't need Moses to see that victimizing other people is wrong. It's a social convention, not religious. I'm an agnostic (bordering on atheism) and I understand that you don't victimize others that you share society with: it takes nothing from religion to understand that.

Mainer50:

Obviously you didn't learn to read before you learned to write.

Even more so is the fact that you don't do either one very well.

Please don't try to defend people who want to have same sex marriages legalized.

With your muddled way of reading, writing and thinking , everyone will end up in a gas chamber.

I have a fifty five year old gay friend who's autistic and even he thinks clearer than you do!

tedlick,nor do I vote liberal. Nor am I a Republican. I am right wing all the way, to the point of being what is (or was) called 'reactionary'. I want to return to the country as the founding fathers met it to be, and not what a bunch of whacko liberal Justices think it should be. You're missing my point. I think we agree on everything, but you are not reading me as I intend you too. I am cynical;I am being cynical in my post. I am asking "if it's a civil right, why do we need new laws to enforce it?" 'Basic'rights' are not granted by law, they already exist. The law is implimented to 'protect' them from being taken away.

Thanks RocklandPhil, that makes more sense.

So, let's implement law to protect homosexuals from having their right to marry taken away.

Or, the other option: I hear a log of people supporting civil commitment for homosexuals, though federal law doesn't recognize them in the same way. Let's insure that government guarantees are given equally based on marriage OR civil commitment.

If these people are going to be taxed in the same way as every other citizen (or pair of citizens) then they should have the same protections and guarantees under the law.

tedlick, speaking for myself, I am opposed to homosexual marriages. It's not because I'm a fundamentalist Christian. In fact, I'm athiest, in that I do not believe in a higher power sitting on a throne in a place called Heaven. (The answer to an 'afterlife' is more complicated than that, but that's another topic) I simply think that a marriage should be between opposite sexes only. But, as I said, that's my opinion. You may consider it a 'basic right' and maybe it is;I cannot dispute you.

RocklandPhil

It goes back to treatment under the government. Homosexuals are taxed just as heterosexuals, and therefore, should be treated the same under the law.

Current bigotry in states across the nation make it impossible for equal treatment under the law. Homosexuals are taxed at the same rate as their heterosexual counterparts (paying more, as they generally make more money and carry more disposable income), but they have none of the protections under the law.

THAT is why we must change the standing of these people under our government. I don't care if companies don't hire homosexuals: I don't support "hate crime" legislation (based on anything): I don't support landlords being forced to recognize these good folks. But when it comes to the government, if people are taxed the same, they must be treated the same.

Loathe the homosexual if you choose: pray for him/her if you choose: refuse to show them any respect if that's what you (as an individual) want, but do not endorse the government being involved in preferential treatment for any group for any reason.

I haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if I am repeating something. But he says "“To redefine marriage to include same-sex couples is to strip marriage of an essential component, namely the ability and obligation to procreate,” the bishop said in his letter. “To strip marriage of this essential component is to render marriage meaningless and open it up to endless revision and redefinition.” Now does this mean that if a man is sterile or a woman is infertile and therefore unable to have biological children, that their marriage is worthless and not valid?

I wonder where this Bishop would stand if the question on the ballot was to forgive all priests that have raped and scared young boys? Let me make a prediction...Roman Catholics have lost all and any credibility they have.

People who say "gays want special rights" are just ignorant. Anti-discrimination laws protect everyone equally. You only have to be able to prove you've been discriminated against. So if your landlord kicks you out because he doesn't like your heterosexual lifestyle, and you can prove it, you have a case.

Nice to see that these religious people are practicing real well by being accepting of other people and not judging. Anyways, I find it not surprising that a Catholic bishop opposed same sex relationships. Of course he does, the bible tells him to. And look where the bible has gotten anyone: nowhere. If people are homosexual that is their own business. Noone needs to know what happens in someone's bedroom. You don't see people going to church and asking how each others' sex lives are going, now do you? And the fact that they discourage it because it doesn't lead to procreation is a stupid excuse. Do you think that our planet needs extra millions upon millions of people when the rate we are going our poor earth is becoming an overpopulated and over-polluted wasteland? Population control would be a good thing,this being the only way i can think of that wouldn't be ridiculous. Also same-sex relationships also tend to adopt, giving those children out there without families a chance. How homosexual people trying to influence your life? If you think that then maybe you need to question your own. All same sex couples want is to be married without all the fuss and flounder over it. The only reason they try to show their gay pride is that they want to show they're not ashamed of such. If you don't like it, look away, or don't dwell on it. No one squabbles when two heterosexuals kiss each other in public. And if you are in a religion that makes you feel like less of a person just because of the people you love, then get out of that and make yourself and those you love happy, and not try to fit yourself into a mold layed out in a book written by a bunch of guys hundreds of years ago. It's crazy to try to conform to something that supresses the enjoyment of life and the things around you, when you have so little time to live that you should be making it all count, and loving whoever you want.

Furthermore, I find it hilarious that the church thinks that any form of marriage is still sacred. And to say that marriage was FOUNDED bu any religion is also a lie. Marriage was adopted from pagan practices that began WAY before organized religion decided to dump on people that worshipped the earth because it provided them with all they needed. All organized religion is is just a cover up to make it seem like all other forms of a religion were evil and devil worhip. Just because two heterosexual people get married doesn't mean that they will love each other any more that two homosexual people, in fact you can just about garauntee there will be a divorce in the future. All it is is just a piece of paper, there to aid in protecting each party from getting royally screwed when the breakup does occur. And seriously, what does this bishop know? Has he ever been married? Has he been in love? Does he know ANY of the feelings of being with someone you truly have feelings for? And I'm not talking about jesus, whom the bible TELLS you to love. Pshh.

Jesus was a Jew, and not the son of god either, he was a prophet. Read James Tabors The Jesus Dynasty's book. Paul screwed it up, and I say LIVE AND LET LIVE. The first one without sin can throw the first stone. YOU PEOPLE NEVER SEEM TO AMAZE ME

workingpoor YOU SAID IT! They have the same rights.... why do they feel they need the WORD to be redfined to fit their alternative lifestyle? These poeple have the rights, it is just a different union. A gay couple "unmarried" can be on eachother's health insurance etc.... NO different than a straight "married" couple. No they aren't a threat, but why do we need to change the definition of what stems from a religous belief to fit their lifestyle, they can have a Union if they want, just call it something else!

-

Gary said and I agree with him too Civil Unions are about as far as I care to go on this issue. It gives gays protection without outright saying that homosexuality is normal and a good thing, which to me it is neither.

-

Mainlelyme... such hard words "religous zealot" you freakin SPACEY TREE HUGGING MOONBAT! We are not dictating other's lives, they want to dictate ours.. This is about a change they are proposing we make with our lives and beliefs.. If were were to take something away from a Gay, black or poor person then maybe, oh but take away from the straight, white or religous folk it is okay! FGo smoke your pot and go to sleep!

LET them have all the misery that us Hetosexuals have, Gays want to get married I SAY WHATEVER. AGAIN, LIVE AND LET LIVE

Tikitorch

What part of civil unions NOT being equal under the federal government have you missed?

Again I offer this link: http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/og97016.pdf

It contains over 1000 guarantees that the federal government extends to heterosexual, married couples that do NOT extend to civil unions (or roommates, domestic partners, cousins, or other forms of social/familial relationship).

The two are NOT the same.

If civil unions are granted the same guarantees, then that's fine, but currently they are not. The government either re-writes its interpretation of marriage, or it rewrites all laws concerning marriage to include civil unions.

If homosexuals are to be taxed equally, the government has an obligation to treat them equally, regardless of what anyone's superstitious ideas dictate.

I think that same sexed couples should have the same rights as married heterosexuals but I think it's outrageous to change the meaning of marriage. Let them have all the rights they want, just call it something else. We have cheeseburgers and hamburgers, they are both essentially the same except one has cheese and one doesn't - the same, but different, hence a different name. Like nuns live in a convent and priests in a rectory, same but different. Give the gays and lesbians they rights they seek, just don't call it marriage and don't redefine the word. Marriage is huband and wife, man and woman. Not husband and husband and wife and wife. Give their unions a name, give them all the rights heterosexual couples have, just call it something else!

so you're saying that all marriage is, is a word? People who are gay can have everything the same as a hetero couple, but you just have to call it something else. that's stupid.

john64, I see no valid argument against your proposal.

We must first get the government to redefine every guarantee extended to heterosexual, married couples.

With that done, folks can keep their pet word.

Dear Leatherglove - No, marriage is not just a word. I never said that and for you to think that that was my intent is "stupid". Marriage means man and woman and, to pro create, among many other things. So you tell me, o wise one, can gays and lesbians do that? Is man and man the same as man and woman? Or is woman and woman the same as woman and man? No, it isn't. Gay partnershp is TOTALLY different that marriage. They want the same rights? Let them have them - just use a word that means GAY MARRRIAGE, something that does not include pro creation.

Tikitorch :

"you freakin SPACEY TREE HUGGING MOONBAT! "

"FGo smoke your pot and go to sleep!"

THAT'S MISTER TO YOU!

I also feed the Racoons in Central Park.

I'm trying to reduce my pot but I gain weight now just waching cooking shows on the computer.

I'd love to go to sleep but, all you heavily suppressed closet queens screaming keep waking me up.

What do you mean by saying "This is about a change they are proposing we make with our lives and beliefs."?

What makes you think that your miserable puny little life and half baked beliefs are anymore important than other people's when we were all created by God in His image?

Get your own sexual orientation straightened out in your own feeble seriously crazed mind before you go messing around with human beings who not only know who they are but, want the God given rights to live accordingly!

End of Round One!

john64

Once again, procreation comes up in this discussion.

IF you use that idea as the premise for marriage, then are childless marriages (either by medical cause or by personal choice) shams? Shouldn't there be a different word for straight people who want to be in a committed, recognized, sanctioned relationship without children?

Making procreation a part of the definition of marriage makes a mockery of millions of relationships in this country. I have no problem with a unique term for gay marriage, but honestly: if you're going to call a spade a spade, call a spade a spade.

Round Two:

Why not do away with marriage entirely and just have everybody shack up?

You dirty minded Bible Bumpers would like that wouldn't you?

Wouldn't you.

Huh?

Wouldn't you?

By the way;

Has anyone ever heard of the Virgin Birth?

Just asking!

A few bad apples always spoil the bunch. I hope mainleyme wasn't calling me a bible bumper, because that I am definately not. I just think that gay unions are different than tradtional marriage, so it should be called something different. That's all. I am not bashing gay people or trying to say they shouldn't have the same rights are married hetero's - but call it something different, that's all. Why is that so hard?

You have a gay friend Mainelyme? Who would of thunk it? LOl!!!!!!! You guys really should calm down and don't get so worked up. If they want to be PTR PFRS let them do it, just not in my area. Maybe they should all move to Province Town MA and make a new state to vote on what ever they want. Barney Frank thinks so!!!!!!

I was just commenting on the hatred of those that keep posting about not legitamizing gay marriages and hating people that don't follow the Christian dogma. I do apologize for the rambling because I was also thinking about the racial issue in Bangor neighborhood on the same note of hatred. When people are stuck in a certain way of thinking, it is hard to change it to the good of others. In small towns of Maine, in particular, the KU Klux clan thinking is still prevalent, whether one is black, yellow, gay, old or simply born on the wrong side of tracks. So, I'm glad your gay friend with autism is doing so well, some of my friends cannot speak and has to use a communication board to articulate their thoughts. Best of wishes to your friend and hope he doesn't get persecuted for his sexual preference and his dis-ability.

Thanks for asking, MainelyMe! Answer: Yes. Point of reference: Isaiah 7:14 (prophecy regarding the virgin birth). Matthew 1:18-25 (fulfillment of the prophecy regarding the virgin birth.)

Mainer50:

As a matter of fact people don't even want to be bothered with him.

He has a good job with the Homeland Security and he was in the Twin Trade Tower's basement offices on both occasions when the fertilizer truck exploded and the airplanes struck.

The reason he and I get along so well is because of our sense of humor.

Some people are mean to him because they think of him as a troll (Which he's not) and some people are mean to me because they are outrageously jealous of the favorable attention I get from others.

We've been friends for ten years this coming New Year's Eve.

"Let those that God hath joined together in friendship------------"

I agree with John 64 – Just call it something else, say > Quarriage…

Mainelyme.. what does Mister have to do with it? "What makes you think that your miserable puny little life and half baked beliefs are anymore important than other people's when we were all created by God in His image? " Right back at ya you SPACEY TREE HUGGING MOONBAT.. Obviously you can call all the names you like like Religous Zealot... If you are in Central Park, why are you even on here. This is a Maine Issue... We don't want to be like NYC.. Mine orientation is fine. Always has been, and I'm no bible bumper.... I don't condemn other lifestyles... just don't like them trying to redefine mine.

_

You said "I was just commenting on the hatred of those that keep posting about not legitamizing gay marriages and hating people that don't follow the Christian dogma" you were the one spreading the hate. If you actually read my post. I don't care what people do in their homes, they could screw a donkey for all I care, just don't call it marriage!

The Bishop is exceeding his authority under the Laws of the United States. We can begin with the citizenship requirement that one must not pledge allegiance to a foreign Prince or King in the US Constitution. If the Anglican Church (aka Episcopal Church) in the United States can reform itself to comply with the Laws of the United States --then certainly the Roman Catholic Church can also.

The Bishop does not have the legal right to tell people how to vote; and if people do not vote the way he wants them to then he has NO right to deny them communion or excommunicating them, for exercising their civil rights as Bishops tried to deny VP Joe Bidden in Colorado and Fr. Newman apparently did In Greenville, South Carolina this past week or the Southern Baptist Preacher in Waynesville, North Carolina.

US Laws take precedence over all other laws. We have freedom of religion but we also have the right to be free of religion and religious influence. The Bishop is particularly in violation of the Law concerning religious influence. The Bishop nor your priest or pastor has any business knowing how you voted and it is something you are NOT required to tell them when you go into the confession booth under the privacy laws of the US.. You should vote your conscience not your religion or church. IF two people love each other that is all that should matter and they should be allowed to marry as anyone else does and raise their own families. The claim that the only reason to get maried is to procreate. That is a fallacy and reduces marriage into nothing short of a whoredom /whore house. I find that particularly offesive as well as an OUT RAGE that any CHurch leader would presume to telll me how to vote.

Church and State are Separate and should always because it is in the best interest of both. I have the greatest respect for the Catholic Church but I also like Thomas Merton do not follow the dictates of leaders who are excceding their authority. I have the greatest respect for the Catholic Church and other churches/relgions until they begin to stick their nose into areas they have no business doing so in a Country such as France and the United States.

The Catholic Church does not get it---it burned people at the stake simply because they spoke the truth. It does not want to recognize advances in science and refuse to accept that they good Lord made some people gay and others not. Why? we do not know but Isaiah 55:8 says:"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD" . If being gay is so sinful then why does the good Lord keep making

gay people. Being gay is not a choice but the way one is borned. Suppose it was sinful to have brown eyes--would you make yourself blind simply because some leader who was greedy and power hungry said that it was sinful without any proof. Such leaders have cause such things as the Jonesville Masacre in which Jim Jones told his followers that they must drink cyanide laced cyanide because Armagedeion was about to occur. The leader of a group when the Comet Hyukatake had all his followers commit suicide because supposedly a space ship was hiding behind the comet and had come to take them to heaven. Could it not be that they Church is doing the same thing--it would not be the first time that it is wrong parading about as the gospel of an so-called infalliable man.

IT is far more sinful to deny your brothers in Christ the equal rights that everyone else has. The Church does not like to talk about it and even will deny it but in the history of the Church same sex marriages were not only tolerated but blessed as holy union. This came to an end around 1000 ad when the Church decided that Priests could no longer marry among other reforms. What logical reason is there to deny gay people the right to marry or tell them who they may marry or not marry. This is nothing short of fascism.

The Church has oppressed people and its propagandists/myth makers are responsible for the murder and roasting of 6 million Jews, gay people, Gypsies and the elderly but did little to really try to prevent this genocide---in fact its propagandists brought this about by promoting the hatred of jews as 'christ killers'. It tried to burn Gallieo at the Stake and destroyed the Aztec civilization burning their books because the Padre thought that they were the works of the devil instead fo the works on science that they were et al. Now they are doing the same thing against gay people. It tood nearly 400 years for the last Pope to apologize. The present Pope echos the Nazisim of his childhood in his hatred of gay people and had the last pope uttter the most odious statements in Rome when the International Gay Pride folks met there---he even tried to interfer with Italiian affairs to shut down the event.

I ask you ---do you wish to be a free people able to make up your own minds independently or do you want some fascist religious leader dictating to you what you are suppose to believe as though you were some idiot unable to think for themselves? Christ said love your neighbors as yourselves. That did not mean that if your neighbor was gay that you go about engaging in bearing falsewitness against them that the opposition propaganists are doing. IF you wish to be free then think for yourself and get to know some real gay people who you will find are basically just like you are.

, Tikitorch

Beastiality.

I knew you had an even darker side!

Your lifestyle?

No body is even interested in you!

hadassah:

Thank you.

Can you be even briefer than that?

Lincolnmom hit the nail on the head...regardless of what people chose as their lifestyle a true and absolute charter has already been written and has been for many, many years...it's called the bible and sure enough a day WILL come when YOU have to stand in front of the Father and explain the

choices You have made during your visit here in God's world...you may not like his Final Decision...stay true to the Written Word and no one has anything to fear...ever...

hogbay:

We can see what you do for excitement!

OK everybody, let's try and figure out what we agree on. I think most of us agree that civil unions are OK. There's a rather large religious contingent that feels the word marriage shouldn't be used when referring to gay couples tying the knot. Most gay people I know don't seem to care. This is an equal rights issue. Civil unions should be afforded the same rights under the law as marriage, without the religious trappings. Let them tie the knot and call it a civil union. Is there anything wrong with that? I don't think the Catholic Church or any other religious entity should be dictating rules to anyone except those who chose to follow their rules. This Bishop can talk all he likes but he has no jurisdiction over me or any other non-Catholic. Isn't that what religious freedom is all about? We can all argue till hell freezes over about how our religion is the best and blah, blah blah. This has been going on unresolved for thousands of years to the detriment of humankind. You bible thumpers can keep a thumpin', the rest of us will keep a humpin'.

No body is taking anything away from anybody else by wanting to be recognized as equal to others.in the eyes of the law.

As a matter of fact, while everyone is enjoying their equality they won't even have time to think about others who are savoring their equal status, also.

BlueCollarBob:

Your collar may be blue but, your heart is gold!

Has anyone noticed that all the gay movies, and surveys have been paying the News good money to advertise on this page?

I'd say we're all being used!

thank you for your response lincolnmom, I was just a tad shocked to see that written.

I hate to have to be so hard on Bible Thumpers.

Poor things.

It really breaks my heart.

I won't say what other parts of my anatomy it also breaks.

Mainelyme: All us "Bible Thumpers" actually want to thank you for being so hard on us. Why? "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you (Matthew 5:10-12). "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution" (2 Timothy 3:12). "Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: being defamed, we intreat..." (1 Corinthians 4:12b-13a). "And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer for his (Jesus') name. And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ" (Acts 5:41-42).

hadassah

I was really waiting for that one, you nerd.

You're not suffering for righteousness sake you're suffering for your own stupidy and that ain't nothing compared to how you'll suffer when He gets his hands on you!'

OK hadassah, now put yourself in the shoes of someone who is an honest, law abiding citizen who would like to get married but can't because people like you persecute them by discriminating against their lifestyle. Take a look in the mirror. No one wants to persecute you for your beliefs, it's time you and your self-righteous friends live and let live. It's really none of your business whether or not gay people get married. Re-read the quotes from the bible in your last post. Think about it.

Mainelyme: "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will" (2 Timothy 2:24-26).

"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his" (2 Timothy 2:19). <><

Isaiah 59:1-21

And you're living off public welfare and food stamps while you're retyping all this garbage?

The state of Maine should get its money back!

hadassah

Make that copy and pasting.

I don't think you have the intelligence to retype this stuff from Wikipedia.

Tell me.

When do you have time to pro create?

No, never mind.

I have a weak stomach and I really don't want to know!

<>< Is this supposed to be the sign of the fish?

It sure looks and sounds fishy to me.

Bishop should not hide behind the law

October 9, 2008

John Ewing/Staff Photographer

Lawyers for Bishop Richard Malone argue that the diosese should be immune from a lawsuits filed by sexual abuse victims.In a very real sense, Maine's 200,000 Catholics have joined together to deny fair and just reparation for the trauma, harms and injuries inflicted upon a victim of priest sexual abuse.

Catholic parishioners are complicit in their silence. They stand by disengaged and silent while their bishop unleashes the church's legal team against a single victim of child sex abuse.

Bishop Richard Malone is hiding behind the doctrine of charitable immunity, a civil law technicality that, in the bishop's mind, gives him permission to avoid his moral and ethical obligation to gospel values such as truth, responsibility and accountability.

A Maine Supreme Judicial Court justice recently argued that if there is no charitable immunity, entities like the Grange could be out of business. However, in a different case involving the same priest abuser, the Court ruled in 2005 that the protections of church leaders are limited when weighed against the welfare of children.

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Maine's revenues are $70 million per year. The church's net assets are valued at $80 million. In fact, during the past two fiscal years, church revenues exceeded expenses by almost $20 million.

Adding insult to injury is the fact that, at the same time that Bishop Malone is claiming that the church cannot afford reparation for the victim's injuries, he is living by himself in a 7,000-square-foot mansion that includes six bedrooms and four full baths and is assessed at $1 million.

Michael Sweatt, Portland

Copyright © 2008 Blethen Maine Newspapers

where's the letter the diocese issued on catholic priests, and their habits with young boys? Who cares if gay people want to get married? If it doesn't effect you... butt out!!

Am going to follow Elizabethann and Skipperskitchen's example after all. Why? "And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. And when ye come into a house salute it. And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city" (Matthew 10:11-15).

"And whosever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city" (Mark 6:11)

"Remember this, that the enemy hath reporached, O LORD, and that the foolish people have blasphemed thy name. O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked: forget not the congregation of thy poor for ever. Have respect unto the covenant: for the dark places of the earth are full of the habitations of cruelty. O let not the oppressed return ashamed: let the poor and needy praise thy name. Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily. Forget not the voice of thine enemies: the tumult of those that rise up against thee increaseth continually" (Psalm 74:18-23).

"Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of all his people, and the strength of the children of Israel" (Joel 3:13-16).

Mainelyme: My prayer for you is that one day you will see its not about "Mainelyme", it is about "MainelyGod".

hadassah:

Does this mean that you're really going to blow?

You've got the wind for it.

Please don't think that you've gotten any attention as people have more important things on their minds.

Remember, pity in others is not respect, and tolerance from others is not acceptance.

Even though you and your kind are to be pitied for your mental short comings none the less you all remain intolerable.

"THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE."

And my prayer for you is that you start to mind your own business and start praying for yourself.

"IN THE BEGINNING ALL WAS DARK AND GOD SAID, LET THERE BE LIGHT, AND THERE WAS LIGHT!"

The light from within you yourself will flicker and grow brighter with each kind deed you do for others, and you'll soon be a beacon of helpfulness and inspiration to all around you when you finally learn the meaning of all these carefully scripted words you've been spouting forth, and put them to their proper use. You'll finally come to realize that the words in the Bible are to be acted out, not just spewed forth like so many meaningless words in a cheaply produced badly acted out touring play.

Just as Jesus summed up the entire Ten Commandments with the simple statement, "LOVE EACH OTHER AS i HAVE LOVED YOU," so to you'll find that simple compassion for your fellow man will supercede all the rhetoric of all the books that have ever been written by man, and truly you'll find your place in heaven.

Remember, peace of mind comes from within and every scripture you've quoted so far has been computer cut and pasted from with out.

Try to believe the words that you are saying and only then will their true meaning rain beautifully over you.

If you were helplessly down and out do you honestly think that you could go back and all people you've looked down on and condemned in your acted out arrogance and self righteousness would extend a helping hand to you out of thankfulness for what you've done (to) them?

I have had to go back to people from my past and, praise be to God they were there to extend their kindness to me just as I had given them my best efforts the first time around.

"GIVE A MAN A FISH AND YOU'VE FED HIM FOR ONE DAY. TEACH HIM HOW TO FISH AND HE'LL FEED HIMSELF FOR LIFE."

Showing kindness and compassion to others teaches them how to reciprocate in kind.

"CAST YOUR BREAD UPON THE WATERS AND IT WILL COME BACK TO YOU A THOUSAND FOLD!"

Food stamps and public welfare programs won't last forever and sooner or later you're going to have to get a job and go to work for a living.

Jesus may have spent his life living on hand outs but, you still haven't even mastered the technique of walking on water!

As Roman Catholic Priests say at the end of confession," Go in peace, my child and sin no more!"

When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,

and the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;

When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,

and the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.

Refrain

“When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll is called up yonder I’ll be there.

On that bright and cloudless morning when the dead in Christ shall rise,

And the glory of His resurrection share;

When His chosen ones shall gather to their home beyond the skies,

And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.”

Refrain

“When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll is called up yonder I’ll be there.

Let us labor for the Master from the dawn till setting sun,

Let us talk of all His wondrous love and care;

Then when all of life is over, and our work on earth is done,

And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.”

ENTIRE

ENTOURAGE

WAVING VIGOROUSLY

EVERYONE: “God be with you until we meet again!”

Refrain

“When the roll,

When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll,

When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll,

When the roll, is called up yonder,

When the roll is called up yonder I’ll be there.”

(One more time)

Everybody

Piano Drums and Tambourines banging

“When The Roll Is Called Up Yonder

I’ll Be There!”

Mainelyme: Alot of what you wrote to hadassah applies to you as well, no one cares what you have to say either, you're getting zip attention.

You used to post somewhat interesting comments, but now you're just arrogant, self absorbed and bored i think. So before you put someone down for the beliefs and opinions, maybe you ought to consider just what you are saying to others. You are no better than anyone else. Stop acting like it.

I think your mind is going or something, i wish you the very best in your surgery though, but i must say the break from your nonsense is going to be nice.

Isn't all the scripture recited in theses posts circumstantial and, therefore, inadmissable as evidence? It's based solely on faith and not on fact.

The Christian Church did not invent marriage - it was created by the Romans for administrative purposes, and there are undoubtedly earlier instances of similar customs in other cultures. The Roman government later transferred marriage administration authority to the Church. What would the Romans have thought about gay marriage? Hard to say, but we do know they admired the Greeks. And they were always looking for creatures to entertain the populace at the Colliseum!

gmse66

Get someone to read the posts to you.

Your priest or minister perhaps.

Everything applies to everybody, as we were all made by the same molds in God's image.

Some of us were just taken out of the oven before we were completely done.

gmse66:

Allowing others to have their own beliefs and opinions is what this is all about.

Your EKG may have been fine but your brain scan comes up blank!

The best thing for the citizens of the country to do is to take this out for a vote.

Find out how many there are of them and how many there are of us.

While it's true that it's going to take quite a few more years of happy pro creation on their parts to achieve their required numbers they are still going to have to brain wash their physical mistakes into thinking like they do, while our side already knows where they stand on this life evolving subject.

In the meantime, it's keeping my screenplays on same sex marriage a hot current subject of debate, and even though I don't believe I'll make as much money as the people who are getting paid to press this issue for their own greed, I just might be able to live in a mansion like the Bishop of Maine.

"IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE THERE ARE MANY MANSIONS," sayeth the Lord.

Stick a cross on the roof and you won't even have to pay property taxes!

Seriously....what is wrong with you. You sound like a college professor who lost his audience. Write a book...Ayers did....

Write a book?

You brain dead Bible thumpers can't even read these simple messages from people who wish to mind their own business and live their own lives!

i didn't realize what the definition of marriage was until i read skipperskitchen comments on 11/17/08 at 0843am. i'm not a church going person, but i do believe now that marriage is for a man and woman. I'm not against gays having equal civil rights, but we just can't call it a marriage.

kboot73:

Then start a Fudamentalist movement to give gays federal full rights "Civil Unions."

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WOULD SMELL AS SWEET!"

Mainelyme...do you think the actions in these groups which have stormed churches across the U.S. is justified? Knocking a cross out of an old ladies hands and stomping it on the ground, storming a church in Michigan throwing condoms and screaming obscenities and terrorizing people is okay?

I don't know .

This is the first that I've heard of it so I wasn't there!

The activists did that to Saint Patrick's Cathedral during a mass 20 some odd years ago.

They even went up on the altar and threw the Host on the floor and stepped on it, or so I've been also 3rd handly told.

I have partied with several of that group since then and they were very sincere everyday people who felt they had a just cause.

It certainly got attention for the cause for AIDS Research at a time when the Catholic Church was telling its congregations to ignore it as AIDS was a result of gay sex, and only useless gay men suffered and died from the killing disease.

Bloody wars have been fought over less, and as my mother always said; "Religion has caused more trouble than anything else on earth."

Living in Biblical times has had its day and its time to learn the old lessons and go on from there to use all the natural resources that God has given us..

With the world now overcrowded and space journey and colonization of other planets in the universe becoming more and more of a necessity, we are going to have to stop the vast expense of killing wars and use that money to fund more and more space exploration programs, and the space age medicine that comes with it.

I wrote a message to the New York Daily News the other day in which I said that, "If barack obama funds the Stem Cell Research Program that is now available that doesn't have to use unborn fetuses then I'll be sorry that I didn't vote for him.

But, first and foremost on the agenda is the fact that in order to realize all these wonderful advances that God is giving us access to we have to learn to get along with each other. And that means letting people live their own lives, and not trying to control their every movement and thought!

Does Obama want to use embryonic, stem or both?

My dear.

And you are my dear!

Can we talk?

The latest medical revelation to be reported is the fact that medical researchers have now been able to extract perfectly viable stem cells from the Testes of human males.

That shouldn't offend any thinking person as everyone knows that men only throw that stuff on the ground anyway!

I know that Australia has had success with stem cell from the nasal cavity. One country...European ....can't remember which...has had success also with stem cells with spinal cord injuries. Which is great..hoping someday thay do the same in the states. I have a son who I hope could be helped by it. What's really great is parents keeping the umbilical cord of their new borns. Science can do great things...

Elizabethann:

Human beings can do great things if they only allow themselves to do them!

Mainlyme, Is your browser stuck on this article, So far you are averaging better than 3 to 1 for comments on this article. As Billy Shakesspear said "Methinks you complain too much"

mainelyme:

Sorry it took me so long to reply in your intellegent post, but i was working all day!!!!

I read the posts just fine, Thanks though!! It's one thing to allow others to have and express their beliefs, but being rude and insulting is not what it is all about.

Oh by the way, your replies were real mature, my point exactely.

I shouldn't say this because i'm alittle more mature plus you set yourself up for it but......

I think you were left in the oven way too long.

Go get some sleep dear, be alright in the morning!!

Thank all of you for your kind thoughts.

I just came back from a beautiful pot luck supper that our two buildings Tenant's Association put on at the Senior Center next door.

It was delicious receipes prepared by several of our Puerto Rican neighbors.

We're all going to have a Christmas Party,too.

It really pays to get along with all people.

Some of you mealy mouths should try it!

mainelymePerlley) you seem to be getting along well. That is good news.Sounds like you had an enjoyable gathering with friends, good food and fellowship. Keep it up. Continued best wishes for a full recovery. If I can lend support to you, please let me know. Caring for people is what I do and I do it well. Stay the steady and continue to get better.

Thank you, Kat.

I had a good time but, unfortunately I didn't say I'm better.

I've appointments with three heart surgeons and a surgeon for the gall bladder next week.

Plus a couple of other doctors of unknown origin.

As you know, half of medical problems are not knowing what will have to be done,

I firmly believe all of this has happened for a reason and, the reason being that I was really starting to lose my faith in the kindness of my fellow humans.

By, has this experience proven me to be wrong!

Make that;

"Boy, have these experiences proven me to be wrong!

treeking55 :

I know Billy Shakespeare, and belive me; you're no Billy Shakespeare!

EizabethAnne;

I hope you find this article from today's N Y Times both interesting and a further hope that your son who suffers from spinal cord abnormality will soon be healthy again.

I've suffered from a ruptured disc and spinal surgery since I was 28 years old and I've refused to give up.

Through constant walking and very painful exercise I'm still managing to walk 48 years later.

So people just can't do that much!

So much personal trouble in the world and some people insist on causing even more for other people.

Perley

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Pioneering Stem Cell Surgery Announced

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By ALAN COWELL

Published: November 19, 2008

PARIS -- Physicians at four European universities have completed what they say is the first successful transplant of a human windpipe using a patient’s own stem cells to fashion an organ and prevent its rejection by her immune system, according to an article in the British medical journal The Lancet. One of the physicians said the surgery could herald a “new age in surgical care.”

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The transplant operation was performed on the patient, Claudia Castillo, in June in Barcelona, Spain, to alleviate an acute shortage of breath caused by a failing airway following severe tuberculosis. It followed weeks of preparation carried out at the universities of Barcelona, Spain, Bristol, England and Padua and Milan in Italy.

News of the procedure coincided with speculation that President-elect Barack Obama may reverse the Bush Administration’s restrictions on stem cell research, which has been contentious in some European countries, too. Anthony Hollander, a professor at Bristol University, said ethical concerns relating to embryonic stem cell research had not surfaced in the latest procedure because it had used only the patient’s own stem cells. “This was not embryonic stem cell research,” he said in a telephone interview.

Ms. Castillo, 30, was hospitalized in March with her windpipe so badly damaged by tuberculosis that she was unable to walk more than a few steps at a time, according to a statement from Bristol University.

“The only conventional option remaining was a major operation to remove her left lung which carries a risk of complications and a high mortality rate,” Bristol University said.

The surgery represented what the university called “pioneering work.”

“We are terribly excited by these results,” said Prof. Paolo Macchiarini of the University of Barcelona, who performed the operation. “Just four days after transplantation the graft was almost indistinguishable from adjacent normal bronchi.”

Moreover, two months after the surgery, lung function tests on Ms. Castillo “were all at the better end of the normal range for a young woman,” the Bristol University statement said.

Martin Birchall, a professor at the university, said the transplant showed “the very real potential for adult stem cells and tissue engineering to radically improve their ability to treat patients with serious diseases. We believe this success has proved that we are on the verge of a new age in surgical care.”

The Bristol University statement said a segment of trachea, roughly three inches long, was taken from a 51-year-old donor who had died of a cerebral hemorrhage. Using a new technique developed in Padua University, the trachea was stripped of its donor’s cells over a six-week period “so that no donor cells remained,” the statement said.

At the same time, at Bristol University, stem cells removed from Ms. Castillo’s bone marrow, were grown into “a large population” and used to “seed” the donated windpipe using a new technique developed in Milan to incubate cells.

Four days after the seeding, the graft was used to replace Ms. Castillo’s damaged windpipe.

Normally after transplants there is a high risk of rejection because the recipient’s immune system reacts against the foreign organ. Most transplant patients, thus, use immunosuppressant drugs to prevent rejection.

“The patient has not developed antibodies to her graft, despite not taking any immunosuppressive drugs,” the statement from Bristol University said.

Make that "Some people just can't do that much."

Thanks for taking the time to post it. I had actually seen it but didn't take the time to read it. They have been working for this for years in some countries with stem cells. I kinda of stopped keeping up on the new results because it would get me discouraged because I know it's not being used here in the states. I didn't want to give myself and son false hope. He was twenty when he had his surgery. Work accident. He is actually lucky he is walking today. Refuses to take the meds because he can't function mentally with them. So he suffers with the pain. One job to the next until they realize he has back problems. Then they basically force him out the door. Changed career choice halfway through college. Had to. It has been tough. Extremely awesome learning experience through all of this though. For all the family. Keeping the faith.....I know someday using stem cell will be common place. I just pray they speed it up.

Hope things go well with you. Glad you had a good evening last night. Nothing like good friends and homecooked pot roast to lift the spirits. You"ll be in my prayers. Thanks again for posting the article.

Thank you for your reply:

I meant to say I had the surgery in 1968 and I'm still walking 40 years later.

I also refused to take medicine for the pain as I'm just not a pill taker.

Wouldn't you know that I'm now forced to take 9 pills a day for my heart.

Sometimes there's no pain at all in my back and legs, but, like everything else in life there's always something else.

My unshakable faith in God has kept me going through the bad times as well as the good, and I'm not going to give up now.

And don't you and your son give up, either!

Perley