Lynx death may affect trapping case

Sounds like incremental environmentalism. Push for this little bit to get more later. What's next? The Maine "spotted owl?" Hmm. SOunds fishy to me - almost like the Atlantic Salmon from the 90's. At first it was one river, then two, now it is nearly the whole state - and landlocked ponds... Sportsman are getting screwed - especially when they fund a major portion of the recreational and operations budgets. Wake up, Maine and see the greens are trying to take over and turn our state in Massachusettes' playground.

Who care's it's the Canada lynx after all. Let them worry about them.

Yeah!!! Let's kill everything! After we take care of the Atlantic Salmon and Canada Lynx why not head to the Artic and take care of the Polar Bears as well, or even better, take a trip to the equitorial zone and destroy all the coral reefs!!! Sounds like a good idea to me....

Now, I'm not against responsible trapping or hunting or anything but I'm curious about these particular "conibear" traps. I did a quick google and they are a body trap that can close with 90 lbs of force, apparently the traps themeselves are what kills the animal? is that correct? If so, I think it is a bit indiscriminate to be trapping with such traps as the trap itself is inflicting the death and there is no chance to release an incidental catch like a lynx or a dog or anything you shouldn't be trapping. I think that responsibility of trapping can go along way in defeding the sport, just like many people don't have a problem with hunting unless you are doing something stupid like shooting at anything that moves. If there is a trapper that can explain differently I am interested. Again, I am not attacking, just curious.

The anti's are undoubtedly rejoicing over the death of the lynx. How ironic. One step closer to eliminating all hunting, fishing, trapping and any other "consumptive" uses of Maine's wildlife assets. That'll also pretty much kill IF&W, since . . . now where does the lion's share of their funding come from?

the conibear is typically set to catch a fisher or pine marten in a tree, or an otter, mink under water,the whole deal with the 45 degree angle of the tree and 4 feet above the ground is supposed to discourage animals such as lynx from climbing a tree. The lynx that were caught on ground and in a foothold trap were releasesd with a catch pole, no harm done.

Last time I checked it wasn't 1850 & coonskin caps were no longer fashionable. Why are people still trapping animals? Is this some kind of "sport"?

coonskin hats may not be fashionable, but fur coats still are and very warm! Beavers are nusiances when it comes to damning roadways and flooding areas, but a beaver skin hat makes ice fishing nice and warm

Goretex keeps you warm too, and doesn't kill living creatures to do it.

So let me get this straight, beavers are a nusiance even though we are the ones invaded their natural habitat? There are plenty of other materials out there that are just as nice and warm.

Jimmyb i hope that you don't kill black flies when they land on you,or what about all the bugs that hit the windsheild i think we should ban cars.

the discussions are all the same everytime someone comes with a problem with trapping, and I always say the same thing, we don't tell non trappers how to spend their time, if you don't like it don't do it, plain and simple, eventually like everything else in this lovely state we call home, no one will be able to hunt, fish, trap etc...next thng you know their will be advocates for nightcrawlers and worms saying they hurt when they are used for fishing, oops maybe we should stop fishing also, the dear things might have feelings and they don't die immediately either, most of the time they lay flopping on the boat floors until they die. And not all fisherman eat their fish either, they end up as trophies on a wall also.

Uh, your making a comparison of a warm blooded mammel and an insect, and your making ME out to be an idiot??

I've been open water fishing, mainly bass, for 10 years now and I still don't know what they taste like. Haven't kept one yet.

incbs: maybe we should kill of the human species so we can save the animals, unfortunately animals habitat are getting invaded, but beavers procriate at a high speed like a rodent, a overgrown rodent, don't you suppose if there was a lack of the beaver than their would be limits on them, what is the difference between trapping them or some stupid careless people who just come along and shoot them and leave them there to rot.

The no cut, no kill, environmentalists were opposed to clear cutting which provided the snowshoe hair habitat and population that the Lynx feed on. In the last fifteen years more Lynx in Maine have been road killed by automobiles than killed by traps. I find it ironic that the animal protection groups are not filing lawsuits against the Secretary of State for issuing drivers licenses and registering automobiles. A few years ago someone mentioned to me that the ultra green environmental preservationists and anti's have a long term plan for "rural cleansing" (removing humans from less populated areas). I never thought I would buy into any crazy conspiracy theories like this but every day there seems to be a story that comes out supporting this theory. Little by little we give up traditions and our population gets bigger and bigger. If people are not allowed to utilize natural resources for traditional activities, power, and food we will all eventually starve in the dark.

This goes to show the ignorance is all around. First our lobsterman are limited in there catch because of Maine laws. Canadian lobster man can come into our waters and take what they want, Large or small. Now, we are a rehab for the Canadian lynx. It is legal to trap and hunt lynx in Canada. So why are we worried about our trapping program interfering with the few Lynx that are here? Trapping is a lost art. If they government keeps micromanaging everything ... like they do, than we all may as well forget about the lost art of fishing and trapping. This is Maine; we are supposed to be tough people that can fend for ourselves. Every time we turn around we are looking for Big Brother to guide us into he right direct. In-case everyone hasn’t notice, we have been guided in to a depression. NOW Big Brother is going to bail out all of Corporate America and you and I are no further ahead, just falling further behind.

What kind of sport is involved in trapping? Real hunters don't need traps,bait or dogs to hunt.Used to be people hunted out of the need to feed their families but with all the government freebies out there that is no longer the case. Shooting an animal to fill your freezer and lower the grocery bill is one thing but to just catch something to brag about is a crime.

Shoot the moose to keep them off the roadways and shoot the other edible critters but let the game wardens handle the animals that need to be thinned out or to remove a pest.

Let someone setting these traps get caught in one---bet that would start the ball rolling to get rid of this foolishness.

hey maybe we should get sarah palin over here to help us kill stuff! you betcha! what a moron. this broad is still talking to anyone who'll listen to her nonsense.

Thank you patricia!! Trapping is just lazy man murder.........

What the people here who are talking about lynx mortality due to cars don't understand is that the people driving cars are not setting out to kill things with their cars. People have to drive to get to work, feed their families and generally carry on their life. Without their car they would not be able to. Trapping involves going out to intentionally kill something. You need to be responsible for what you kill. By asking IF&W to protect ESA listed species by limiting where , when and how trappers are allowed to kill is not a stretch. The trappers blame IF&W but all we are asking is for the state to follow the law. It is clearly spelled out in the Endangered Species Act. It says you can't trap a listed species, intentionally or otherwise without a permit which meets all the requirements spelled out under the ESA. The current state application does not meet that criteria. Trappers do not make a living anymore from trapping. You can bet we will be auditing their income tax returns if that argument comes up. WAM's job is to protect wildlife and that is what we are doing and will be doing for a long time. It is time for IF&W money to come only from the General Fund so this ridiculous argument of "pay to play" in Augusta is put to bed once and for all. If the state doesn't like lawsuits, maybe following the law and carrying on state business like a Democracy might be a good first step to not having to deal with them anymore.

Ok, let me open by saying that I have completed a trapper safety course and been around the activity quite a bit but I am not an active trapper as I have no time. Also let me start by saying that I agree that the human population and sprawl is the root of all problems that make trapping vital, however killing off humans in order to rid this problem is frowned upon quite a bit more than trapping and therefore what are we left with for options. High concentrations of animals lead to high rates of disease, therefore biologists try to maintain proper populations that can control disease. These diseases may effect only animals, or both animals and humans, so by controlling population and thus disease, we are not only protecting humans but also the majority of the animal population. Trapping kills less animals, than could be potentially killed by a large outbreak of disease. Secondly some animals such as beavers are nuisances. Again we are ultimately to blame, but who wants to give up their cars and roadways. Since this infrastructure is vital to every aspect of human life, and the added costs of maintenance associated with flooding and such is astronomical, the beavers are removed to make our lives as we like them possible.

In direct response to patricia, obviously you don't understand the scope of either the positive effects of trapping or the duties of a game warden because there is no way that your proposal would work. The wardens are already spread way to thin and there jobs are very demanding. In order to be effective at all in both there current jobs and maintaining animal populations, the force would need to be nearly doubled.

In response to JMill85, I believe that your figure of 90lb of force is correct, however not for the size traps allowed by law. I would assume that the 90 lb figure would hold true for a 330 or 220 (large traps used for beaver and otter trapping) but they are illegal unless used under water. The 5 inch jaw law pretty much limits you to 110 and 120 size traps, maybe 180's, I'm really not positive. Now personally I've closed my hand in a 120 by accident and it hurt,but had no ill effects. Please don't think that the traps used above ground will rip a leg off a dog or anything because that really isn't accurate at all. I too agree that wide spread responsible trapping and hunting would benefit those of us who participate in these activities, but like anything else, the bad apples are the only ones we hear about.

That being said, I am not going to try and assume what happened in this case. No matter how well you do something, or much you try to discourage something, it can still happen. For the trappers sake I hope that this was just some type of fluke.

for you people who think that the state has money to let game wardens drive around the state and take the time to set traps(which for you morons who do not know takes time) to control animals haven't been listening to the fact the lovely gov, of this state is cutting budgets, Wardens right know are on a 60 mile a day limit with their vehicles, a trapline that gets tended to like its supposed to racks up at least 40 miles a day, and then what do if they are called on a real mission, the wardens would be to busy doing what some people can do and it costs the state NOTHING, but brings in money. THe cost of a trapping lisc for a out of staters is around 300 bucks, and believe me the out of staters do come...

I would like to know how trappers are held accountable for reporting what is caught and/or killed in a trap ... is this on an honor system? I find it hard to believe that everything caught is reported ... I applaud the trapper who DID report that his trap killed a lynx, I just wonder how many other trappers share his ethics.

most honorable trappers keep a log of when and where what is caught, they need this information to tag the furs before shipping.

I don't make you out to be an idiot jimmyb you did that all yourself

stupid is as stupid does

right you is stupid

Yes it is an honor system, and if you are trapping legally in the first place there is no benefit for not coming forward. If you catch a lynx and it dies and somehow they find out about it, you are screwed anyway. If you come forward and everything on your end is legit, it is an accidental catch and you are fine. Plus if you catch something illegally there is nothing you can do with it anyway, you can't mount it, or sell it so what would be the point. I think the general trapping public is responsible and will report this.

jimmyb I am sure Gortex doesn't break down in the land fill quite as well as the coonskin or beaver skin cap.. You Environies can't have both ends and the middle!

On 11/20/08 at 10:18 AM, jimmyb wrote:

I've been open water fishing, mainly bass, for 10 years now and I still don't know what they taste like. Haven't kept one yet.

_

Maybe you should leave them on the bottom of the boat. Bass are invasive and eat the smaller good eating fish and are killing them off

This is just foolishness. The Lynx should not even be listed in Maine. The cats here are just a part of the large Canadian population. The constant reference to the "only breeding population in the lower US." is completly missleading.

Daryl,

What in the world makes you think you can audit someone? The games you play in court are giving you a false sense of power.

BTW, my fur harvest accounts for 7-15% of my income, and it is all claimed. Losing that income will hurt my family. period.

Read Reread 'downeastdiva'

Maine is 'the' target for each/every/all leftcoast liberal liberty grabbing organizations in existence - I learned the hard way and moved to AZ.. and will be selling the balance of my R. estate in Maine this Spring.

Woodlots anyone?

The passing of a way of life.

Kurt,

I can't audit anyone, but the burden of proof here will fall to the state to prove hardship.I read all the trapper blogs and know what the cost is of trapping, as well as the time involved. One trapper described trapper earnings as "third world wages". Another says"$795 spent in gas. Total earnings for the year, -795 dollars". The ESA requires that violators of the act prove "substantial economic hardship." If someone says they will suffer this we will ask the court for an audit of their financials. The bottom line is that this activity is illegal, intentional or not. The statement that Maine has the only lynx population in the east in the US is accurate. I always notice that when positive change is attempted some people scream about it. Tradition is a common theme, but trapping in the past was done to feed families and provide clothing. That is hardly the case these days. The fur market is lower than ever, and the trappers know it. All this is about is some people wanting to do whatever they want to do, regardless of harm to ESA listed species and other wildlife. If you want to smoke, fine, I agree you should be able to hurt yourself if you want. The wildlife of Maine belongs to all Mainers. We all will have a say in how it is treated. That is what I started WAM for and that is what we will ensure will happen. Everyone's not going to like it but democracy will be a refreshing change in Augusta when it does. I don't feel a "false sense of power" but I know the law. I am tired of wildlife being treated like trash, a life for $12. I am one of many people tired of this mentality and I have decided to do something about it, that's all. We have many members and I hope more people will join. We're gaining members, not losing them, and they are Mainers. I get calls from northern Maine all the time from people tired of bear trapping and lynx trapping (these two calls just in the last four weeks, and both from up by PI) Yes, "a way of life" is continuously passing. Nothing stays the same, and hopefully it is improving. Certainly with the elections over it seems that way.

Daryl,

You have no idea about the cost of trapping. Your "trappers blogs" line is useless. The problem with your "positive change", is that it is based on emotion, not reality. I see nothing positive about it and I don't wan't it forced upon me. Has anyone ever forced you to trap?

The only lynx population statement is typical of the misleading statements groups like yours constantly push into the public consience.

When an opposing view is voiced, we are "screaming".

Trapping still helps to feed families, ask my wife and five children. The fur is still used to make clothes, the "greenest' you can by.

The fur market is growing, the prices have been steadily increasing, and trappers do know it.

This is about the misuse of the ESA, by groups such as yours in an effort to acheive your goals. You know the Lynx was listed after a lawsuit and judgement by a sympathatic federal judge, not based on biological facts. You do not want a say in our wildlife matters, you want your views practiced.

Answer this question Daryl, do you want to end all trapping in Maine? I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer.

As for the political climate, seems to me the Dems have been running this State for quite some time. I can't wait untill the rest of the Country get's into the great shape our State is in.

You know this is ridiculous. Lynx can be legally trapped probably ten miles from where this one was trapped, just over the border. You can catch as many as you want sell them on the open market, as a renewable resource. The United States Border is not fenced and the "Maine Lynx" doesn't need a passport or anything else. They are NOT "Endangered" over that line we call the border. This part of the state is just the southern edge of their natural habitat. We don't have any Pine Marten, to speak of, south of Bangor but just imagine if the United States Border was in Orono then everyone would be crying that Pine Marten were then endangered. Pine Marten are far from being endangered as so is the Lynx. Northern Maine is just the southern edge of where they like to hang out. People have been trapping in Northern Maine since the beginning of time and now all of sudden we are experiencing some incidental catches. Does anyone ever think that maybe, just maybe, it is because there are a lot more Lynx now then there were then. The population is increasing even though trapping has always been allowed and practiced through out the entire state. Fifteen years ago a trapper would have been lucky to catch a coyote or two an entire trapping season and now they are everywhere and people are crying to get rid of them. HSUS and those other out of state influences are just using this Lynx issue, and their big money, as way to sneak in the back door and band all trapping and hunting. No one ever brings this up but are the Lynx really endanger or are they thriving? I once heard a story about a Maine trapper that met a Canadian trapper at the border and the Canadian trapper had two Lynx that he had caught. The Maine trapper told him that we were not allowed to trap those in Maine. The Canadian trapper smiled and said, "Yep, I know. You grow 'em and we catch 'em"! Hmmmm!!!

last year my husbands efforts in trapping paid our land tax bill, income we didnt' have to save or take away from some where else. A little extra income is always nice, unless of course your on welfare and live mightier than the working class, it just gets tiring having to defend ourselves all the time to people who don't like what we do, don't like it don't do.

Defend your right to trap/hunt but also realize that others have the right to expect accountability and/or not agree with you. We ALL should have a say in wildlife management, owning a piece of land and building a home where wildlife exists does not give the home/land owner the right to "manage" what belongs to ALL of us, i.e., the wildlife that lives in Maine.

Arizona is the way to go, you can all come on over a trap all of the coyotes and rattlers you want, like I was told was I was a young man living in Northen Maine, (Go West Young Fellow, Go West)

If you moved here from a city outside Maines borders maybe you should return to that State. This is a State that in which we have made a living and fed our family by harvesting animals. Trapping,and shooting the most favorable type of obtaining both and this is not a bambi movie, animals can not talk and do not have human thought or behaviors. No matter what your college proffessor attempted to teach you.

HELLO LIBERALS I am a Maine outdoorsman- My favorite hobbies are flyfishing, hunting & trapping. I also have a 3 yr old son which I am raising proper & instilling my famalies love for the great outdoors. However, I will let him decide which activities he is interested in & back his play. But at this point let me get to the big picture. Trapping has been a part of life for years & years, from the native Americans to the great explorers that settled this land. Have we forgotten out roots & what pain staking & amazing marvels/sacrifices were made to make us America the united. Well come on people wake up this is a part of life & population control. Those same cute cuddly creatures I have in fact watched kill other animals viciously & what some would consider grotesque, yet I see it as the wonder of life. If you think trappers are crazy killers & brag about taking lifes then explain to me why last week on my trap line I encountered & bobcat w/ a young kit. An uncivil person would have shot both animals, skun them & sold for profit. But no, the only shooting I did was w/ my camera. I, like most trappers throughout Maine, have a great appreciatation for nature & Maines wildlife. We are not out there to destroy it but make it healthier & carry on a very important tradition in order to keep Maines wildlife population intact. Question my response & call me 746-3931. My grandfather taught me to trap & to respect animals, not kill everything, but to balance populations. Finally, thanks to the great liberals of California who are more worried abouth the lynx or two being killed each year in out state rather than their own state burning, sinking & being over pop. & polluted. oh no these clowns are more worried about killing a damn lynx which are being killed legally on one border yet walk 5 feet across the border & we get sued & slapped w/ a lawsuit. things like this should not be an issue. Attend any trappers function & you will see these people are not the hicks you think. Most work full time jobs & have a greater apprection for the wilderness & animals than any of the granolas that bring this to a vote. Finally these traps called conibears, which have only about a 4.75" inside jaw spread, are so small most cats, including bobcats, can't fit their head in. Few fisher are being caught due to the fact of only being allowed to use such small conibears #110 & 120"s a #160 is better for fisher & could have a better chance of killing a cat. So kudos to the state of ME for doing what is right & to all you lliberals I encourage you to spend more time in the woods if you really enjoy it & less time fighting for things you really know nothing about. thanks for my long winded speech>>>>>>

Sorry but 1 more comment. Speaking w/ a Biologist just about 8 months ago the lynx appeared to be thriving & they had over 200 radio tagged. now how can an animal that is living in Norther Maine w/ over 500 be thriving. Considering this is their southern most boundry in the US & yet we as trappers are doing something terrible?? More are being killed by cars & god forbid if we hadnt butchered Northern Maine from Ross lake acsross North there would be More. Finally like any cat they do not over populate & 1000-cats which need to be removed from the endagered would be near impossible because they will not overpopulate like bobcats. As long as ME sustains its tough trapping policies the animals of ME will continue to thrive & populations will be kept in check. For instance Bear hunting has done nothing but cause the population to thrive. Hmmm what was that yes thrive so do your homework & keep up the good work judge woodcock.

Well said northmainewoods! My husband is an avid outdoors man, and while I myself don't find it appealing (the trapping anyway, I do enjoy fishing and a little bird hunting), he enjoys being in the woods appreciating what was given to us. I don't have much to add to what you have stated, just have to try to quote Hank Williams Jr. that my husband and I heard on the radio, while going for the ride in the woods looking for a place to set his traps and looking for some partridge at the same time - "I won't touch your clubs and rackets, so leave my rod and shot gun alone!"

"A country boy (girl) will survive!"

The statement on trap sizes and allowed set locations in this article are not correct. All body grip traps regardless of size set on dry land in zones 1 through 11 are required to be set a minimum of four feet above the ground or snow according the regulations imposed last year. The BDN should get the facts correct before printing an article.

how many of you that object to hunting and trapping actually were born & raised in Maine? Seems to me that people that move into the country tend to bring the city life with them. If you don't like it, get the hell out!

Killing one lynx on accident isn't that bad many more get killed by cars. When they get in traps that on accident you try to close trapping, where if they get hit by car nothing is said. If you stop all of trapping or at least coyote trapping you wont have to worry about anymore lynx because the coyotes will be so over populated there wont be a rabbit left and no food for a lynx means no lynx around.

Just leave us trappers a lone its not our fault.

You know Im so sick and tired of this left wing enviormentlist librelism!!! so what if we want to hunt, fish, or trap animals!! it is our GOD GIVEN RIGHT!, as long as it is done humanly, and done legally what is the big deal?!!,, and you left wing lugnuts cry about "oh were invadeding the animals territory",, well when GOD created the heavens and earth he gave man DOMAIN,, ya I'll say it again DOMAN over AALLLLLLLLLLL his creations!! that includes the lynx!. you left wing lugnuts cry and moan about bambi being killed or about the beaver being trapped, but what about the abortions that going on everyday? is an animals life more important than a human life? that doesnt have the chance to even run away, or have a say in if it wants to be killed or not?.

this state of Maine is a joke!! I think as hunters and fisherman and trappers should not buy a licence for one year!, and bankrupt them animal activists!! becuse thats where our money is going it's lineing the pockets of the left wingers.

I hunt waterfowl and on my federal duck stamp I bought at the post office it says on the back of the stamp,,," sign your name in ink on the face of the stamp to use it for HUNTING or as a season pass to any National wildlife refuges and other public land.",,, now why is it when im hunting and you see a wildlife refuge, it says NO HUNTING,,??? I paid for that land why am i not allowed to hunt on it?,,, LEFT WING LUGNUTS!!! is why. hunters, trappers, and fisherman,, grab your gear and get out of maine while we still can, because the way Agusta likes to control,, they might not even let us out of the state without a permission slip!!