Laid-off workers get Thanksgiving gift

nice knowing that this is my hometown. great to know this is where i come from.

Solidarity

The second turkey could of been for Christmas? Wow. someone has to find something to complain about. This is a great thing coming from a small community where lots of people are having a hard time at this moment. Why question the kindness of others when it does not come from your pocket at all? This is a wonderful thing and if he could of had three turkeys I say let him. We are all in a time of need. To have people pull together and show kindness is wonderful!

Also, not that it is my right to say..but, I think this guy deserves a many turkeys as he can get. He worked for this mill for 23+ years and got "bumped". That is hard to swallow. Not like he is just a bum who doesn't want to get a job or wants to be unemployed. He is a man who has worked hard and dedicated his time to his job and obviously did a good job doing it and now, because of union rules, was allowed to be "bumped" due to the Millinocket Mill closing, not even the mill he worked at. Two turkeys are not out of line no matter if it is just his wife and him or not.

mainah_mom, I agree, anyone losing a job is sad, bumped or not bumped. The way you are wording your posts though is starting to insinuate this was not the right thing. These mills have always been tied together, the unions are the same. The last time these mills closed, the unions sat down and rehashed some of there "rules". East Mill got the upperhand in some situations that the Millinocket Mill had and lost. These negotiations that took place were agreed upon, and when it does not go the way as expected, don't blame the other side. All workers in both of these Mills have taken serious concessions in the past to keep them running, sacrifices were made all around. The companies made money, the men's salaries did not even keep up with inflation. These unions are no different then any other union or local. Seniority is always the number one factor in a union, it is the way it goes.

To my union brothers and sisters -Thank you very much for my Thanksgiving dinner!

I am not insinuating anyones fault. I have not posted anything negative. All I am saying is in reposnse to the comment that oh my gosh he got two turkeys. I have no issues with either mill. My family comes from mill workers and railroad workers. This is the area I grew up. I know many people affected and I don't blame either side. I am just stating what happened to the poor guy was not a great thing and even if he did get two turkeys that is not the point. The point is is that this man lived for the mill. That is how he fed his family and/or wife. This was his life and after 23 years of service I think that two turkeys is not too much to give.

That is all. I understand senority and the rules.

I agree, anything they get they deserve. That goes for anyone facing tough times today, whether you have lost your job or not.

Solidarity

and a good time will be had by all................

As many turkeys as they need and more..... I'm all for that. I was given a turkey at work and didn't need it so I passed it on. I'm just going to say the obvious, and then wait for the union people to start calling me names. Does anyone think the union holds any responsibity for milking both the workers and the companies to death? It is great to have a union to help you get a higher income, but if the business can't sustain it and keeps going under what good does it do anyone. Also, how is it fair to get bumped for any reason. When the cuts come around then the company should be able to keep the productive workers, and cut some of the dead weight that are riding the union coat tails. I have worked union jobs, and time on the job is something to be highly respected, but all too often it is just a shield so people use to hide behind and not pull their weight. It is a system that invites abuse.

It may be a system that invites abuse, that is why the unions need good leaders. One thing you need to remember, not all union workers or unions are milking anyone. These large corporations are making large amounts of money, while the workers keep making consessions. These corporations just "play" with there books, and move the losses around so they get what they want. The problem is NAFTA and other trade agreements. I am not saying it is all wrong, but we cannot compete with the slave wages and conditions these other contry's workers work in. You may not be union now, but these unions are what allow you to work in a decent workplace that you do. Employees have every right to negotiate there worth with a company, and by being in a union, there voice is much stronger. Corporations are paying hundreds of millions in bonuses, while telling there employees they need to make consessions. I have no problem with large bonuses, just don't take the money from my pocket to put in yours. Remember, most corporations would not exist if not for there employees. Any system is able to be taken advantage of, and many people lose sight of what is important or right. Don't forget, these unions have elections also, so they can be voted out of office. The seniority clause is there for a reason, more when company's had retirement plans. Imagine working your tail off and 2 years before you retire, the company plays the game of saying they are replacing you with a younger, more productive worker. They would do this to save money and not pay your benefits. Again, this can be abused. For those that don't perform, others have to pick up the slack. Hopefully enough of the productive workers will have a "talk" with the non productive.

So before everyone bashes unions, just remember what they fight for, and even if you are not in one, youre working conditions would be much worse without them.

You make some good points.... food for thought. Thank you for a well expressed welll thought out response, and not just attacking my comment. have a good night.

Solidarity

Bike1, are you just joking or are you from Poland? (-:

bicycle1,take youe 2 wheek bike and shove it where the sun dosen't shine.....you obviously don't come from the Millinocket region, becaue if you did, you would know that your SOLIDARITY KILLED that area, in part, with their ridiculous union demands.......they over priced themselves out of a job...argur what you will, the proof is in the pudding. When the orginal GNP left the area, the gravy train began to dry up. Unions lost the upper hand when new buyers came on the scene. How do I know? Benn there and done that. Grew up there.

Kato, Please explain how the union priced themselves out of a job. Please tell us what benefits they have that they should not. I am curious to hear

your reasoning for this. I know what the pay and benefits are, now I would like to know what you think they should be. It is such a bore hearing over and over about the unions causing this. If you want, I will write you a two page article on the demise of the paper industry, and it is not the unions. But, I really would like to hear your educated opinion on this, with the facts. Thanks

Thank you, unions, nice going. I'm glad you have eliminated all that nasty industry from Maine. We never really wanted an economy here anyways. Welfare is a lot more rewarding. Thanks again!

I guess you do not understand Maine is a right to work state. There are less unions in this state than many others. Now that there are so many intelligent individuals on here, please explain what mistakes were made and how to move forward. We are all waiting for an education..............

who is Kato? The guy that hung around with OJ?

David889327, Katofbangor, and all you corporate toadies out there. Blame workers for asking for a living wage. Blame the victims. The fact of the matter is American workers can't compete with the slave wages paid to workers in South America or the Far East. These bloated lumber pimps suck a region dry as long as it's profitable and then move on to destroy another unprotected pristine wilderness to fatten their swollen bank accounts, workers be damned. I guess you support the gluttony of the corporate welfare queens, who stuff their pockets with the profits earned off the backs of people who work long backbreaking hours to feed their families and, if they're lucky, keep a roof over their heads. Don't worry too much about your corporate welfare queen friends though, they'll always be alright as long as their business interests are backed up through payoffs, bribes, and the graft, corruption, and muscle that ensures that any worker who speaks out finds himself in an early grave.

bluecollar=to you I say "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CORPORATE TOADIES??? Again, what? You obviously don't know a thing about the GNP days and that area and region. Or esle, you would not be asking the question....the answer is so obvious.,

You obviously do not know the GNP days and the hostile takeover of Georgia-Pacific. Please educate yourself, here is a link to start

http://www.answers.com/topic/georgia-pacific-corporation

Corporate toadies spout the corporate message like puss from a lanced boil. American workers CANNOT compete with third world wages and survive. PERIOD. You, Katofbangor, until I see some thinking that doesn't come from a falsified corporate statement, are a CORPORATE TOADY!!!

Solidarity, Yes this worker spent over thirty years in the heart of this paper mill that at one time employed, in one fashion or another one in four workers of the State of Maine. In 1986 it was estimated that the assets of the Great Northern Paper Co. were in the area of 19 Billion Dollars. These assests have all been divested, in a process of corperate greed. The wood, hydro, and land has been sold off to the highest bidders while the workers have been left now without jobs, health care, or any of the infastucture that allows a town to survive. The mill that sits at the crossroads of all this wood harvesting, at the headwaters of all this hydro power sits idle. When the people of Poland saw thier mills being shut down because a political system was failing to provide for their needs they rose up. Solidarity. With the help of President Reagan, and the support of the Pope a union leader was able to March into a closed mill and demand that the assets of that mill support the workers of that area. Workers union or not supporting workers that's solidarity.

movethen,

It wouldn't be such a bitter pill for some of these guys to swallow if it was truly seniority that kept the guys where they are. By closing Millinockets mill down temporarily, which most of us up here do NOT believe it is temporary, anyway by closing down temporarily they are going by departmental seniority instead of mill seniority. WTH Keep the guys who worked there the longest! Not the ones who have been in 'this' department the longest or that department the longest. IF the other mill does not reopen when are they going to do the whole mill seniority thing?

Jennifer,

Not saying it is not hard to swallow. Just saying this is the way it is, and if the East Mill would have "Temporarily" closed, then the shoe would be on the other foot. Same rules would apply. If you really look at it though, it was the men with the most seniority that were held onto. I don't think you can find many cases otherwise. Oh, and the mill will reopen, maybe just to sell power, but it will reopen. From the information that I know, I do believe you will hear the winding of number 11 again. Let's hope so.

Good night, anusholes!

Movethen, just curious, because I actually don't know. What is the average income of one of the union mill workers? My understanding was that they made more then teachers or health care workers that went to college. Thanks in advance for the info! Also the basis of my statement about keeping people on merritt is a friend that works maitence in a very large hotel in boston. They are all union, and he says the only "talks" the workers have with other workers is when a new guy comes in and works to hard or fast and they don't want to be expected to do the same.

Hey David889327, you sound just like one other certain NITWIT that is always slamming us mill workers whenever the BDN prints an artical. let me guess, maybe once you tried to get hired in one of the mills and got rejected, you probably failed the drug and background screening. you definatly have a problem with people trying to earn a living. i was one of the ones that recieved a basket from the people from Food and Medicine and I like many of the other families are very thankful. we didnt ask to be in this situation. ask any millworker and they will tell you all we want to do is go back to work, so why dont you back off us and get a life!

duckwa, They make more than most young teachers in Maine and and depends on who you are calling healthcare workers. Don't forget, teachers get the whole summer off. They don't make more than nurses. What we need to stop doing is comparing salaries of the working class in different fields. Many States pay much higher wages for this type of work. Many Local Union members in NJ and Boston get a min of $40 an hour. Most of these guys make more than a lot of college educated people. The work is not always easy and they are helping corporations make a lot of money. So what is someone's worth? We get fooled by these corporations that there problems are because of the unions, when in fact it is a whole lot of other reasons why, if they are even losing money at all. The papers makers unions and other locals do not even come close to getting the benefits of other Unions in this country. There is no Job Banks program (Like auto industry), for years now they have not collected pensions, they pay much more now for health care, vacations were cut back and lost, and they took pay cuts for the new owners. All this while the company has cut back on employees and these men have more job scope added to there daily work schedule. I agree, there probably was some fat that needed to be cut. I have seen union employees take advantage of the system, but shouldn't we be calling them out and not the unions. This country and its work force has greatly benefitted from Unions. We need to look at Federal government policies and State government policies. The state of Maine is not a friendly place for company's, and because of it's geographical location and infrastructure, it is not the most feasable place to do business. Gov Baldacci has not got the policies or the attitude to do anything about it. Maine has been held back for years by its choice of Government and outside influences. This country should back its workers and take a stand against big government and its horrible policies. I know duckwa you asked a simple question and this was not directed towards you, just a general wrap up.

No , thank you for taking the time. Not sure where I stand... somewhere in the middle I guess.

I need to clarify that the unions are not solely responsible for running industry out of Maine, they were unwittingly and ably assisted by the environmental movement. Maybe some other savant could explain that NAFTA played a role, also, I don't know. The end result is a depressed economy, social ills, etc., etc. Can the Green Economy dig us out?

We keep voting for Baldacci type governments and Maine will truly become "Vacationland"

movethen, I'm afraid you're right. "The path to Hell is paved with {for the most part (?)} good intentions." And I am reasonably certain that there would be a certain seasonal (or of seasonal roots) demographic who would applaud this evolution.

I am going to add my 2 cents here. I worked for the Domtar mill for over 16 years and lost my job to foreign trade. I have heard and read peoples comments for the last year and a half about us being over paid and so on.

I want to clear up one thing to the people that say this, I worked for my pay, and I was one of those people that driving to work every day or night shift, when the complainers were sleeping.

Most people are misinformed; before I worked in a paper mill I bagged groceries, pumped gas, and worked in retail. I use to hear people talking about how these people pushed a broom for 15 bucks an hour; I worked on a paper machine for the better part of my 16 years, 12 hours a day or night and let me say I was far from pushing a broom.

I remember when the company would hire new people off the street these same people that said they wanted a job pushing a broom for the 15 bucks an hour. These were the people that worked half a shift and quit because there was no broom, just manual labor.

The paper industry is all but gone, as it at one time was one of the largest employers in the state, sort of reminds me of the auto industry today.

All I can say to people that complain about mill workers, is they never worked in a production job where you had to work both day and night, or Christmas, and birthdays. Miss their kids’ games, or see them open their gifts on Christmas.

I want to say thank you to the generous donations from people across the state that due help others in their time of need. I always give donations to help others in need, a little less since I am no longer a mill worker, but I give just the same. I don’t complain because I lost my job I just move forward to do the best that I can to feed my family, and pay my bills.

Thank you and god bless, and may the coming years bring back some prosperity to all that seek it.

duckwa,

You apparently never walked through a mill, because the union is not about just high pay, the union is a function of justice to the workers. They create contracts that protect the workers from the company in cases where an unsafe work environment is present. I an employee at Wal-Mart complains about an unsafe work environment they are told to do it or else. In the turn of the century there were no real labor laws and people were made to do things in an unsafe environment.

Today’s labor unions are about equality, better benefits, safer working environment, and job security. Most paper mills only give 2 percent pay increases per year, when on average other non union jobs get 6 to 8 percent increases. So to say it’s about high pay you have no clue to what you’re talking about, and it is sad.

I am not insulting you I am merely pointing out, that unions are for safe working conditions for all workers, and better health benefits those are the 2 key things labor unions work to get their union brothers and sisters.

As for this katobangor person, I have four works for you get an education now. I see people like this all too often and honestly will never understand their foolish comments.

If you were to educate yourself maybe you could make an honest argument, but from what I have read in your posts, I only see someone that has no real idea, and only like to hear themselves talk.

Please katobangor before you start throwing snow balls at out of work union people get a job that requires you to work day and night, and holidays, plus the added benefit of wreaking your body working in a paper mill.

As for making more than health care workers or teachers, well I know personally that I didn’t make more than my wife the nurse she make about ten dollars an hour more than I was making when I was working.

As for the teachers I they have a union so maybe you need to ask their union, I know that most of them make as much an hour as the mill workers at my former mill. I also know that their benefits are greater than what I was receiving.

Also I want to add to the people that have nothing good to say about mill workers, when the economy continues to fail, and maybe you find yourself without a job, because the mill workers can no longer afford your goods and service, will you still blame the unions.

I find this foolish to argue, when the article was about thanksgiving, not how much mill workers made. This is the problem with people they need to find someone to throw things at now that the election is over. I want to just finish by saying thank you for the help during this tuff season.

Happy Thanksgiving To everyone

Well here is my two cents worth, and I am a proud UNION member. I have been donating my thangsgiving turkey to the Eastern Maine Labor Council for years now. I have always thought it would go to good use helping one of my brothers or sisters who have fallen on unfortunate times. I have met with alot of the people who are laid off or displaced, these people want to work.

As I sat here reading the comments, I was saddened by what people think about the workers of manufacturing. We have lost so many jobs in Maine, both Union and non union. We have lost the shoe industry, the needle trades, poultry industry (Both union and non union jobs) and the list goes on and on. Union workers have seen curtailments, downsizings and perminant shutdowns across the state. This does not only effect the worker, it is a devistating blow to the spouses and children also.

As far as the pay issue, it is true we work shift work, holidays, nights and we do miss out on alot of family activities, we have taken cuts to our pay, healthcare and benifits, and at the same time setting production records for the company.

At the begining of this month I was told I would be more than likely laid off, I still felt compelled to donate my turkey to help others. I will continue doing this as a way of saying you are not forgotten. And to those who said thank you, I am glad I could do this little bit to help.