I feel that Judge Woodcock made the correct decision. The plaintiff's petition to stop trapping makes no more sense to me than stopping all motor vehicles from operating because one person chose to drive drunk and killed someone. I feel that it was an unfortunate event (that a Lynx was killed) but, it was due to the actions of a single person who did not follow the rules. Just like in the case of a drunk driver, I feel that until the plaintiff's can prove that the existing laws and rules are not sufficient to protect the Lynx they (the plaintiff's) have no grounds to stop all trapping.

Perhaps Judge Woodcock could be enlightened by spending five days in the wilderness with his foot in a bear trap -- no, probably not.

leg hold traps already have a 24 hr check law,only killer traps can be left longer.

Thank god at least one judge still uses commen sense and won't punish everyone because someone else breaks a law.

If the anti trapping groups didn't come after the DIFW every year for something like they have the past 5 years maybe they would have more credability with the judge.I'm glad he sees through their real agenda.

It's nice to see the "trapping community" say it's okay to kill a federally listed endangered species.

The only good lynx is a dead lynx, apparently.

Too bad - this outdated, primative "sport" needs to be outlawed.

Good job, Judge Woodcock. The focus should be on population levels, not individual animals. Now maybe PETA, the Wildlife Alliance of Maine, Friends of Animals, DDeJ and the rest of them will go away. But they won't, and Mainers have to stand up to this outsider-funded hogwash. I don't trap, but the anthropomorphizing and bad science just to be all huggy/cuddly is pretty comical. These are the people that would stop all lobstering as well. The trapping community doesn't "say its okay to kill a federally listed endangered species" moron. Go back from whence you came, please.

This "primative sport" is how some people make their living.I know it;s too bad everyone in the state couldn't be on welfare.What's wrong with these people wanting to work and support their family.Why are these endangered if they are part of the same ones in canada?

well said Judge....another sad case where 14 percent of the population are trying to run the country...

Unfortunately, there is no real data available to know what lynx population levels are. IF&W is holding those cards very close to their chest. I wonder why? You would think that if they knew lynx populations were increasing they might use that information in their defense. Instead, nothing but silence about what they know. There is not even any information in their ITP application about what they know.

We choose to err to the side of caution and protect ESA listed species. It is sad that people on here try to write off people who work to protect wildlife as from out of state, as if all Maine citizens , or even a majority, think like the extremist end of the consumptive minority. WAM members are 99.9% from Maine, unlike groups like the Sportsmans Alliance of Maine, whose membership is approximatley 1/3 from Massachusetts. All we ask is that the truth be known, both about trapping and what actually goes on in the woods of Maine. It will be over time. Trappers make money from this recreational activity in the same way that people make money from scratch lottery tickets. They spend more than they make. Sure, at the end of the year they can say they made $1500 or so, but how much did they spend to carry out their activity. Anyone truly knowledgeable about trapping knows this is true, regardless of what they claim. Unfortunately, they are not willing to forgo their "fun" for protection of wildlife. Bangorean, we are not going away. When IF&W starts to represent real science and the majority of Maine then WAM will not be necessary. Until then, see you in the papers!

daryld you have no idea what you are talking about.

Hmm, where was I inaccurate, according to you? Or maybe the blood is just rushing to your head from all that bending over

Seriously, we cant just shut down trapping becuase the wrong animal pops into someones trap!!!!

Shiretown.net - Aroostook County's Discussion Forum

DARYLD we know you won't go away,because people like you protest things you know nothing about and try to conform others into your way of thinking instead of respecting another humans' rights to live. humans have been hunters and trappers since the dawn of time,WE are hunters whether or not you choose to or not is your right but you have no right to stop someone else.The bible explains that animals are for our consumption,some people like the anti hunting crowd buy their meat and leather in stores.the butchers and the farmers are their hunters by proxy but still the berate those of us that respect the animals that we hunt and learn the truth, not what some whacko is printing in a anti hunting propaganda flyer. 99% of the money that goes to wildlife research and the science of how to save and protect rare animals and or animals humans have drastically effected ,comes from the sale of hunting,trapping and fishing licenses and supplies. You say we shouldn't trap because there is no profit? Some of us don't look at nature with dollar signs in our eyes.How much money do you make hiking,biking or bird watching/ i have heard ridiculous people say we should relocate deer,give them birth control,save the beavers and move them to some wonderful disney land but when you ask them how much money they are willing to pony up for all this they attack you.

the bottom line is humans are here and we have to MANAGE wildlife ,there never has been a better or more cost effective way of doing this than hunting or trapping. You won't ever know or admit it but nature is far more cruel than a hunter or trapper.I have seen the half eaten deer starving in the yard.The most humane thing for that animal would be a hunters bullet. I have seen a fox starving and dying from mainge do to over population when fur prices were so low nobody trapped.A sick dying animal suffering spreading it's disease. Where are all the antis then rallying to save the foxes or bring in food to the deer yards? Have you spent any time in the maine woods to even make your opinion a factual one? I have shot a deer with a bow and arrow and watched it walk away not even knowing it was mortally hit and tip over dead without pain or fear.You know doubt watch "Bambi" and see the hunter shoot evrything that moves then burn the forest down behind him. Just remember if Bambi was a true story and not a kids story Mr owl would have swooped down and ate thumper.poor thumper.

One point that I haven't heard the trapping community talking about is that ALL of their money comes from out of state. Worse it comes from scary foreign lands like Canada. That's right, every fur bought in Maine, (or the vast, vast majority anyway) is bought by foreign fur traders for the overseas markets. So what's the difference if some out of staters are pressuring Maine to allow trapping and some are pressuring Maine to outlaw it? Let's get beyond this meaningless talking point and talk about whether trapping is needed for wildlife management (its not, in my opinion, except in the case of beaver) and whether or not its a humane and civilized activity (I leave that up to you to decide).

If some people want to ban anything that comes from outside of Maine, I challenge them to build their house and transportation, gather food, etc. all from the resources at their feet up in Northern Maine. Sorry, no traps or guns made out of state. Good luck.

daryld have you hugged your tree today?

daryld have you hugged your tree today?

WAM members are 99.9% from Maine -Just because you have a house in maine doesn't mean that you are from maine.

They spend more than they make-How would you know what they spend.Just another one of those people who throw out a bunch of crap and hope that it sticks.

One day a lady walks up to me in a parking lot and says politly" I hear your a hunter and it's not nice to kill animals". I said " Well we need to manage the animal populations (herds) to keep them in check". She says " Well that's not fare" and I said "Maybe we should manage the Human Population so that there's enough room for the Animal Population". She got quiet and then said "I see your point".

Obviously this doesn't exactly relate to the situation but if we had less people we'd have more animals. Thus, less starvation accros the Globe. And one Lynx taken by someone who's been taught that it's they're given right we can't win.

Somebody got a big buck the other day(last Thursday) on Broadway Street close to govenors. Was he road kill or bow hunting or what. Somebody fess up now.

You know as I sit here and read these comments I feel that both sides have points that have been made. I am a longline trapper in alaska formerlly from lincoln. Frankly you can not justify shutting down trapping from 2 incidental catchs. If this were the case then deer hunting should be shut down because 2 people shot does when they thought they were bucks. Or kept 2 fish they shouldnt have. You can only take so many steps to do the right thing. If I could trap lynx with any regularity up here with conibears I would be rich as the cats are worth a couple hundrad bucks each. Of the two that were caught how many more died from cars or coyotes or other lynx? Maine is I believe the only state that still allows bear trapping. Up here we are allowed 3 bears a year and no closed season. Why? Well it is because the bears have killed off all our moose we have entire areas that are completely shut down to moose hunting because of the bears killing the calves. 500 lynx in a way under statement in my opionion. The rabbits cycle every 7 years and in off years there are no lynx to be found but when the rabbits are up so are the lynx. Now that they are there they will stay. And they will grow with proper managment. So for all you PETA members out there. If we see a lynx in a state park we should shut it down so we dont step on there toes. KEEP UP THE FIGHT MAINE you have battled with PETA before and will for a long time on this and other issues. I think we all have a little PETA in us..

People for the

Eatting of

Tasty

Animals

bangorian: too bad for people like you, YOU don't like something, EVERYONE ELSE should be made to bend to your way of thinking?! Go back to early history, stories and pictures and you will clearly see trapping has been around since the days of davey crocket, daniel boone, etc. Hunting, trapping, fishing is a more humane way of managing wildlife then just letting them overpopulate, causing starvation, diseases and a clear threat to our whole eco system. There has to be a balance for them and us humans. If ever (and I shudder at the thought) outlawing trapping/hunting comes about, people like bangorian will soon go begging the state for help to control the grossly overpopulated animals they sought to protect and the diseases and destruction they will cause! And it may fall on deaf ears cause you reap what YOU sow! We don't know the circumstances of that catch: did that person do everything right by the law and the lynx still got caught but because of the recent press on the first dead lynx, he/she decided it was not worth the trouble reporting it, which is still NO EXCUSE for throwing it in the woods, you do the right thing and report it anyway, or did he/she knowingly do something illegal setting the traps? The latter of the two have no business trapping! I don't trap, I don't like it but husband use to. He just got tired of it after awhile, alot of work. He knew how I felt about it but I didn't stop him from doing it. I even bought him how-to videos. We hunt, some people don't. Different strokes for different folks! REALITY folks: You can do everything to the letter of the law, and incidental catches can and will happen!! If the lynx is SO determined to get to the bait, it can and will find a way, sad but true!

In no way do I defend killing endangered species! Just to clarify above comment! But the last line in it says it all!

Sassy08 - I have a real problem with the argument that in order to control the animal population, we need to kill more animals. In addition, I don't care what Davey Crockett did 200 years ago. What I know is that we now live in a society that makes affordable clothes out of polartec and gore-tex and we don't need to kill animals for their fur anymore. We also don't need unregulated trappers running around in the woods killing anything that they can selll in the name of 'preservation'. If Maine can devise a system that requires trappers to be educated in the 'sport', ethical and regulated, I'd feel better about it, but I can't support letting people run around killing animals without some adult supervision. I don't see anything humane about it.

bangorian, shows you don't know anything about trapping: trapping course mandatory before getting license! True some people even after taking them will break the law no matter what. But DON't lump all with a few! Very narrowminded! And since you think plastics and such are better, try wiping butt with that too, cause toilet paper is made of WOOD! So we should ban cutting trees too?! If you eat meat, how do ya think it gets prepared for your enjoyment, only diff. is YOU don't see how it's KILLED! You may not like what we do but you and others like you have no right to try to take it away from us! If you don't hunt/trap/ fish good for you but leave the rest of us alone who do. Agree to disagree.

bangorian, shows you don't know anything about trapping: trapping course mandatory before getting license! True some people even after taking them will break the law no matter what. But DON't lump all with a few! Very narrowminded! And since you think plastics and such are better, try wiping butt with that too, cause toilet paper is made of WOOD! So we should ban cutting trees too?! If you eat meat, how do ya think it gets prepared for your enjoyment, only diff. is YOU don't see how it's KILLED! You may not like what we do but you and others like you have no right to try to take it away from us! If you don't hunt/trap/ fish good for you but leave the rest of us alone who do. Agree to disagree.

sorry about the double posting. hit wrong key.

WILDLIFER,ARE YOU SERIOUS?CANADA IS A SCARY COUNTRY? Please take all your cronys and move somewhere south of portland. Better yet move to northern California where the anti hunters got couger hunting banned and now they are eating people on the hiking trails and taking kids from their back yards and the antis are in an uproar wanting the fish and game dept. to do something but oh yea california is broke,huh

"Hmm, where was I inaccurate, according to you? Or maybe the blood is just rushing to your head from all that bending over" This from the leader of Wildlife Alliance of Maine, Camilla must be so proud.

If hunting/trapping so bad to some, why is it that people on marsh island now crying, "we have too many deer, help us!" Thus the special bow hunting recently! Too close housing for firearms. That is what ya get when you don't MANAGE the animal populations! Relocations can and do sometimes do more harm then the good they are intended to do! And can be very costly. If anyone saw the video with Gov. Palin on it at Thanksgiving, she was giving an interview in front of a turkey slaughterhouse. They showed an actual turkey being killed behind her. Guess that answers the question how your Thanksgiving turkey ended up in the store and then on your plate! Wasn't a nice thing to see but that's the reality! I eat what I hunt: turkey, deer, bear. I know how its prepared. Regarding trapping, what do you think your leather belt is made from: leather from hides of animals! leather furniture, hides from animals! leather seats in your car maybe? Hides from animals! And other things too numerous to name! So get your heads out of the sand-animal products are all around us, just some of us know where ours truly came from! And we don't like wasting any part of it if we can help it, so if I or anyone else wears a REAL fur coat/hat after we have eaten the meat, all the more better, nice and warm!

Sassy - I'll agree to disagree. I do have to say though that having a licensing process does not automatically meet the critieria that I suggested (educated about the sport, ethical and regulated). Anyone with a checkbook and a few hours to take a course can get a license, that doesn't make them responsible. If endangered animals are being killed because the licensing process is too loose and is letting some lousy trappers through, then I suggest trapping shouldn't happen until the State finds a better way to regulate. Thanks for the respectful discussion - you made some good points.

You could trap animals in a live trap, release the endangered animals and shoot the ones that are legal to keep. Then everyone is happy.

bangorian: your very welcome. Civil conversations can and should happen on these forums. Have a nice, safe and happy holiday!

SteveyDee: Nice sediment but the anti's still won't be happy till they get a total ban on hunting/trapping/fishing. Goes for PETA too. Those people have their views, which they are entitled to, but not the right to take the privilages we are given by law away, from those of us who do the right things while engaging in those activities. I don't tell them how to live, so they need to respect how I and others like me, live. Again, agree to disagree. But then again-wishful thinking, on my part this time.

Same oldline from DarylD.

If you trap for money,your killing just for money! I think his qoute was "no more lifes for $15"

But if you don't do it for moneyOMG theyre killing for FUN!

Darly, you are accomplishing a great deal with this Lynx lawsuit and constant media attention. You are doing us a great favor by showing your true agenda. The more that is written about this, the more everyone will see that you care nothing about the Lynx, or the ESA, but are using them to try and force your chosen lifestlye upon everyone else in this State.

The fact is you are costing the taxpayers of Maine money everytime you file these foolish motions, and this at a time of severe budget cuts.

I appreciate that.

regardless of your baseless claims, I make money trapping. It helps my family live during our long winters. Period.

I also do not play the lottery.

But I do think the wildlife in Maine needs protection,,, from groups such as WAM.

A few facts for others

The Lynx is not listed as endangered. It was listed as threatened after a lawsuit by an animal rights extremist group convinced a sympathtic Federal judge that they knew more than the USF&W. After extensive study, the USF&W had determined it did not warrent listing.

Maines Lynx population is not a distinct population, but part of a very large population extending throughout Quebec and New Brunswick. The cats do not reconize borders like the ESA does.

Lynx populations have increased in Maine while trappers worked without all these new mandated rules and regulations. This certainly shows trapping is not a threat to the population, in fact the reverse can be argued. Coyote and fisher are the number one and two predators of Lynx Kittens,predation and starvation being the number one cause of mortality in Lynx Kittens, it certainly makes sense to me that manageing predator populations helps the Lynx.

Lynx population have a history of expanding and contracting ranges. This is normal AND natural.

I support the ESA. I know it was meant as a good act. But the constant mis-use of it by these radical groups will, ultimately, result in a weakening of the ESA, as evidenced by the recent changes made this week.

Finally a Judge that gets it!

Nuff Said

daryld and Bangorian, somehow I get the feeling that I was a licenced Maine trapper long before either of you were Maine citizens. I trapped for +/- 15 years starting at around the age of 10, I did not trap for the twenty years prior to last year mostly due to a lack of spare time. This year I used nothing but bodygrip type traps even though I still own approximately 125 leghold traps. If memory serves me correctly animal rights groups such as yours have pushed for the use of bodygrip type traps for many years but suddenly even those are not human enough for you.

If I am not mistaken there are approximately 2500 licensed trappers in the state, seems to make your 848 member club seem rather small in comparison, and of those 99.9% of WAM members you say are from Maine, how many were born and raised here?. I am not sure how many members the Maine Trappers Association has at present but I printed my applicatuion off this evening and will put it in the mail tomorrow. Thanks for opening my eyes to something that I should have been a part of all these years whether I was trapping or not.

As for DouglasWatts the comment "The only good lynx is a dead lynx" that is just plan sad.

To all of you who believe the comments posted by these wildlife activists that all trappers are uneducated, backwoods people, I do have a secondary education and hold a Maine professional license but still enjoy hunting, trapping and fishing.

MaineTrapper - Great point. People often view trappers as uneducated rednecks who don't care about wildlife management. There are a few bad apples, but for the most part this view couldn't be farther from the truth. It is in the best interest of trappers to have healthy furbearer populations that produce a harvestable surplus. That's why it's very important for us to have a state furbearer biologist (recently hired) that can focus on researching and managing these populations.

As for myself, I have a bachelors degree in wildlife ecology as well as a masters in fisheries biology, and have a number of friends who are well educated, productive members of society who enjoy trapping as well.

I too sent out a renewal membership to the Maine Trappers Association this week. It is becoming apparent that we all need to get more involved in order to protect our trapping heritage, something that's become a very important part of my life and the lives of many of those around me.

To jrwood And MaineTrapper: verry well said. Good to hear that someone knows what they are talking about. Steevyd: that idea of livetrapping, won't work. It was done with bears, The bear huggers said it was inhumain and was baned.