Maine gay marriage law proposed

Proof to me again, that this movement has gone too far. BARACK OBAMA COLLECTIBLE COIN IS ONLY $29.99

I think it is time that those who believe in marriage as something between a man and a woman start fighting for their rights.

I think the Catholic Church should first clean its own house - such as the sexual assaults and offenses that Priests have committed for years and which the church covered up and denied. That is a much more serious crime in my eyes. A loving, committed relationship between two people, even if it's a relationship that I would not have for myself, should not be excluded, because we are not gay or lesbian. I know many gay couples in Maine who have better "marriages" then the so-called "normal" ones between a man and a woman. Love superceds all things. These people are contributing, active members in their communities, all they want is the same rights and freedoms as any other married couple has and to raise their children in the security of knowing they will be provided for in the same equal way as children of a marriage between a man and woman. No one "chooses" to be gay and it's no more all about sex than a marraige between a man and a woman is. I think of the horrific things that have been done to people simply because they are gay or lesbian - Matthew Shepherd, Gwen Araujo and so many others - horribly murdered for being who they were. And in Maine, the death of a young man several years ago - because he was gay.

All these religions preach do not judge - lest thee be judged. Yet the Church and this Christian Civic League is the most judgemental of all. The Catholic Church has a horrific history of abuse toward American Indians and sexual abuse against children, both male and female. There are a lot of gay priests too. I am not saying the gay priests are responsible for the sexual abuse - I'll bet not one of them that are, are gay. The ones that sexually abuse children are pedophiles, period. This Christian Civil League - of what I've seen of its so-called spokesperson - is enough to make me want to turn and walk fast in the opposite direction. They are a hateful bunch and their attitude is their way is the only way.

I hope this passes. Why should we care or dictate to others how how they should live and who they can love? As long as they are good people, who contibute in a good way to their community, and raise their children with love and guidance, that is all that matters. Let's work together to show the rest of the country that Maine has had many "firsts" and we are proud of our history and our efforts to provide equal opporuntiies under our laws. Let them live in peace and love. If we had more of that, we wouldn't have wars and conflicts and so many unnecessary, deaths around the globe.

Take a good, hard look at the people pictured in this article and you will see the faces of immorality.

Since marriage has been defined as sacred union between a MAN abd a WOMAN for countless years, and is even defined that way by many dictionaries (see below), gay people have no right to change this basic fact. If they want to live in sin, they have a right to do that. However, this push by the gay and/or liberal side just seems to be another one of their political stunts to further divide the traditional USA.

mar?riage

"1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc."

Source: dictionary.com

Ahhhhh Jezzzzz Edith they are at it agian !!!!!

I would like someone, anyone, to give me one reason why gay marriage should not be allowed that does not include religion. With one of the founding principals of this country being seperation of church and state if there isn't one, it should be allowed.

Also, saying "Since marriage has been defined as sacred union between a MAN abd a WOMAN for countless years, and is even defined that way by many dictionaries (see below), gay people have no right to change this basic fact" does not mean anything. How long were black people slaves in this country? How long were women and black people not allowed to vote. Just because something has been a certain way for a long time does not mean it's right.

Exactly kathystrange what "rights" are you going to fight for. If your married you have more rights than any gay person in Maine, why is it your battle other than trying to tell someone else how to live there life when you have no business to do so. Why do you have rights to get married and gay people don't. Sounds like you need to clean your own closet before you try to clean someone elses.

Why would any person that is married would want to stop gay people from marrying, don't you want them as miserable as you.

The people of Maine are such bigots that this will never pass. They would rather see a man and woman who beat each other be married than a couple who actually love each other marry because they are the same sex.

Hey Govt2Big, I gather from your comment that you don't feel that Government is too big, as long as it's peeking into someone else's bedroom.

Good thing these bigots weren't around when it came for the womens right to vote......

Excellent! Think I'm getting closer and closer to marrying my cat. We can't consummate the marriage either, or have a litter of kids, but hey, I love the critter...and that makes it right. Although we are the same sex, it will not matter, love is love. Oh, I 'love' my car too...think I'll marry that while I'm at it, oh can't do that may be a polygamist. Darn. But, if they make polygamy legal too, my life will be wonderful. Love the cat, car, birds, sunset, honestly who knows where this will end. (Oh, I LOVE chocolate too). Life is good.

The "family protection" people (aka Hate Mongers) are getting ready to leap on this. How dare gay people ask for equal treatment! My hope is that this bill will pass.

Gay marriage will not ruin the sanctity of marriage - heterosexuals have already taken care of that with the divorce rate at 50% and climbing.

Have they ever considered Vermont?

Right on Senator Damon. A marriage should be defined as a legal partnership between two consenting adults. If your religion wants to prohibit same-sex marriage then that is fine, but at the same time any religion that wants to allow it should be able to. Marriages performed at city hall have no religious significance and there really is no non-religious argument to prohibit same sex marriage.

too bad most Mainers are bigots...

Thank you Senator Dennis Damon of Trenton. This is the kind of visionary and bold leadership that Maine's Legislature has sometimes -- but not often -- provided. You are taking a step that many still do not have the strength to take. Thank you. This makes me profoundly proud to be from Maine.

It would seem to me that the legislature could address insurance coverage issues without entering the topic of gay and lesbian marriages. All the other issues that have been brought to the forefront in the fight for their rights, such as employment, housing, education, adoption, etc. have been, so why not what they are complaining about now. My word people, there are far more basic rights being trampled on right now that we as a society haven’t even addressed yet that could use attention; a group that has been treaded underfoot for the past fifty years that hardly a soul stands up for. Not the religious, not the legislature, not any special interest groups; no one except for a few hundred or thousand across the country screaming for help on deaf ears. And you know what; it severely affects that group that people always tend to use, as our guiding principals for any law that we pressure being passed would help. THE CHILDREN!!! Bob Emrich said it best in the article, he said, "It's going to have a major impact on children. It says something about the importance, or lack of importance, of fathers.” There we go. Fathers deserve to have their rights looked at, not just responsibilities, before we offer any more special rights to any other group who is aggrieved.

Here’s a suggestion, why don’t all you gay and lesbians get behind a ‘Father’s Rights’ campaign and gain there support? Then, when they can get just an inkling of recognition for being a father (to their children after divorce/separation), they’ll probably look more favorably toward your issues.

After this we can change from the northeast to the little gay corner. we`ll ahave gayer storms instead of northeasters

But seriously didn`t something like this just get voted down in an ballot by the people of maine.

Even California realized it made a mistake and revoked gay marrage

If you want to get married then go to a state that will condone this style of life

and yes why should you have to move? answer-- because you want that life style

If I want warm weather 12 months a year I`d have to move

LETS KEEP MAINE A STRAIT STATE, IF YOUR GAY AND THINK YOU SHOULD BE MARRIED MOVE ON AND FIND ANOTHER COUNTRY TO LIVE IN

MAINE IS TO NICE A PLACE FOR THINGS LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN. WHAT DOES BEING GAY TEACH OUR KIDS??

I support gay marriage because it will make Maine that much closer to Massachusetts.

eveningrain.................Very well said!! I feel badly that many Mainers are intolerant and bigoted in their thinking. If this doesn't affect you personally (other than it obviously irritates some of you).........just let it go. There's enough fighting and hatred already. The one man / one woman thing sure is working out well, huh?

Gay marriage translated literally means happily married. Why are the homosexuals so interested in it? I think they should concern themselves with same sex unions if that is what they are interested in.

When mankind separates itself from God it is doomed to fail. Separation of God and State doesn't mean we should forget Gods laws, it means the government shouldn't be able to tell us how or where we can pray or practice our religions. God passed down his laws through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ so we would know what he expects of us and how we can achieve eternal life. Of course He also gave us ' free will' to do whatever we wanted to do and left Satan here to temp us to do evil. Looks like Satan is winning !

I think we all need to let people live the way THEY CHOOSE and not be so judgemental. It is not so uncommon anymore so get over it. You may not believe in it, but manage your own life not everyone elses. I am not so sure how I even feel about it all ...but it seems to be the sign of the times. The way I look at it is when our life is through...we will have to answer to GOD...and the personal choices we made will be accounted for at that time.

I'm so sick of hearing about gay people wanting to get married. Move to Canada.

I'm all for this - two people who love one another should be able to marry, despite the religious beliefs of their neighbor. I must say, I can't believe that we're already 30 comments into this and not one has yet felt compelled to cite scripture. Perhaps this will (for once) be an intelligent discussion about this issue.

I'm all for this - two people who love one another should be able to marry, despite the religious beliefs of their neighbor. I must say, I can't believe that we're already 30 comments into this and not one has yet felt compelled to cite scripture. Perhaps this will (for once) be an intelligent discussion about this issue.

"On 1/14/09 at 05:34 AM, Govt2Big wrote:

Since marriage has been defined as sacred union between a MAN abd a WOMAN for countless years, and is even defined that way by many dictionaries (see below), gay people have no right to change this basic fact."

Hey moron, so I assume if you were alive in the 1860s you would be in favor of slavery? Based on your stupid argument, blacks were constitutionally defined as, what, 3/5 of a person, and the TRADITION was to keep slaves. If a$$holes like you had their way we'd still have slavery.

And, stupid biggot, it was idiots like you who tried to ban women from voting prio to 1920. Prior to that the TRADITION was that women couldn't vote. If a$$holes like you had their way women would not be allowed to vote.

You are clearly an evil biggot who hates women and klacks. I assume you also hate Jews and Muslims and Hindus?

10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong

01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

This whole GAY thing is getting tiresome. So if you do get to go down the isle and make a fool of yourselves what are you going to come up with next to get your face in the news. I should think you would be ashamed to admit that your with the same sex partner. Whether society regognizes your sick lifestyle or not you should see what you look like from our prospective. And the thing that gets me is your lifestyle is portrayed like it's a perfect union. I don't give a damn who you are or the sex you live with, all is not perfect behind closed doors so don't try to cram this crap down our throats. And don't try to cram "I was born this way" down my throat either. You have CHOSEN this lifestyle. PERVERTS

Great the way some folks throw the word "bigot' around. Don't think the way they do--YOU ARE A BIGOT!!!! yup, that will work. I'm against PETA, I'm a BIGOT, also against Islamic terrorists...BIGOT again, Illegal immigration, oops, BIGOT. I have no opinion anymore. I am now labeled, Bigot, leftie, rightie inconsiderate. I HAVE AN OPINION, I'm an American, get over it, or move to China.

Homosexuals that raise kids in a homosexual environment ...That is child abuse...PURE AND SIMPLE!

I'm opposed to gay marriage because if there are gay people walking around the neighborhood with blank marriage licenses and ball point pens my wife might go gay.

"I HAVE AN OPINION, I'm an American"

OK, so were your relatives in the 1800s who thought keeping slaves was ok.

So were your relatives in the 1900s who didn't want women to vote.

You sound like a 50+, low education, white male who's worked your whole life at meinal blue collar jobs. Now go fix my vacuum cleaner!

elaine-- you're a hoot! And right on target, I might add. I'm tired of being called a BIGOT for having an opinion that is not liberal. If you don't agree with them, they jump down your throat with all kinds of biased opinions about who you are and what you believe. The people who weild this word are usually the BIGOTS. I'm against gay marriage, but really don't care if they get married or not. I'd not get upset is they married, but I would not want them to be able to adopt children, and this is where the BIGOT comments begin . . .

DouglasWatts -- ha, ha, ha! Good one!

hey elaine, no need to move to China, as that country owns our country, so why not just pass the law and say that gay union is not against the law. and frostheev, my oldest daughter was raised in a heterosexual home with a father and mother, but she is a lesbian, so that must mean there was abuse, who do you think you are to label a homosexuality as child abuse!!!!!!!!! Leave people alone and let them be happy, and for the record, I have several friends who are gay or lesbian and they have children who are just as straight as I am, so for the theory of living in a homesexual home makes the kids homesexual is for the birds. If you have time, and you should, because you have the time to slam people, why don't all you naysayers check out some medical information that is being used and studied that actually shows that homosexuality is not taught but it is born in the person. I did a report on this for a psychology class and the information that I read does show that there is somewhat of a correlation between the developing fetus and homesexuality, it has to do with the chromosones and how they develop. So, if anyone is interested, please look up "Homosexuality, is it taught or are we born that way?" and read some of the medical research.

Rep. Joshua Tardy, R-Newport, will submit a bill that would call for an amendment to the Maine Constitution that would define marriage as between a man and woman and ban same-sex marriage. We all need to support this bill.

Why not just rewrite the marriage law to allow more then two people then. Or say hey if two males or females can get married and have the same benifits as a man and women then what the hell let two women and 1 men get married and allow them the same rights too.

Chemaine--with a name like 'Elaine', I'm a man? I am a business owner, employ 12 people, and what exactly do you do? My grandparents came from Ireland, they did not have slaves.. That was over when they arrived. If you know history, there were many Irish slaves for the WASPS in America, oops can't talk about that one....i"d be a bigot again. Now---you fix MY vacuum cleaner, we Irish did enough for your kind years ago.

Rep. JamesTurdy, R-Oldport, will submit a bill that would call for an amendment to the Maine Constitution that would define Americans as white males and ban freedom for blakcs and women. We all need to support this bill.

Why not just rewrite the freedom law to allow women and blacks the vote then. Or say hey if blacks or females can get vote and have the same benifits as a man and whites then what the hell let women and blacks vote and allow them the same rights too.

This bill is gay. It will never pass a referendum vote. Let them have civil unions but marriage is between a man and a woman.

I feel for any boy who grows up without a father. When it's actually part of the plan, it's a travesty.

Congratulations to Senator Damon. There is nothing more important in our country than the equal treatment of all. Gay marriage is fighting the fight that the Freedom Riders fought and the Women Suffragists fought. Anything less that equal rights for all contradicts the founding principles of our country. Keep up the great work Senator Damon!

IRISH!!!

I assume you're drunk and about to start a fight?

I can't believe the English let you free. GO BACK AND PICK POTATOE!!!!

The tradition is that Ireland is a second class colony for England. Clearly changing that tradition was a disaster and never should have been allowed!

Why do you people care if they can get married? Oh, is it because you go to church and are told that marriage should be between a man and a woman? Or that sexual encounters should be between a priest and a boy? 50% of marriages end in divorce? Yeah, that's a really sacred union.

We'd get so much further ahead in society if people could just focus on their own family and issues and keep their noses out of others. Maybe if we would let gay people get married they would adopt more kids that straight couples can't seem to raise correctly.

Chemaine....you spelled 'Potato' wrong.

To the one comment that was made that 2 gay parents who raise kids is child abuse, bullshit,what is child abuse is when the father of a child breaks both of the childs legs, or the other case where the father threw the child down the stairs and the child died. That is child abuse and murder. Atleast gay couples are loveing careing parents that can provide for the children and give them more than a man and woman who are having children to reap the benefits of the state to provide for their children and also take care of themselves who do not want to work.

Also there are so many men and woman out there in this world that are having children that don't even want them and put them up for adoption,atleast with a gay couple these kids have a good chance of a loveing home,food,shelter and education that other kids do not have.

chemaine, you spelled 'potato' wrong.

chemaine, you spelled 'potato' wrong............

What ! are you people so afraid of...hardworkingmom is right ....I have a gay cousin that was raised in a loving "normal" home infact his parents have been married over 50 years....who is doing the loving and carring makes no difference....I've know at least 2 men that molested their daugthers before they were 5 both married to the childs mother at the time...you don't turn someone gay they have always been that way...sometimes it just take time for them to let people know and that's because of people like some of you in here....and to the those of you that take offence being called bigot....it's alright to have your beliefs....It becomes bigoted when beliefs are used to hurt someone or to quell their freedom...

GO AHEAD LEGALIZE IT SO US STRIAGHT PEOPLE CAN GET SOME RIGHTS BACK TIRED OF BEING THE MINORITY

I fully support gay marriage, but I do believe that portraying all gay couples as "perfect parents" is a bit unrealistic. I don't have any statistics (unimportant since 78.94 percent of all statistics are made up), but I would guess that there are good and bad parents in the homosexual community maybe a little more on the good side since most (I would guess) of the families that are created are purposeful, as opposed to the "ooops the condom broke" factor in hetero families. People are people.

As an openly gay man, who probably won't get married even if given the right, I continue to be baffled as to why people even care what I do with my life. As a contributing member of our Society, I pay my taxes on time very year, I commit to doing community service each and every year, I put money in the basket each month to support the operations of my church (a Roman Catholic one at that), I make donations to non-profits who support those that are in need, and I hold down a good job. However, none of these things are reported about "them there gays." All we hear about about is how repulsive we are to supposed Christians, how the Creator of all life "never intended for people to 'be gay,'" and how we continue to erode the fabric of the world as we know it today.

When was the last time you ever read an article or saw a news piece on a gay parent who "snapped the legs" of their 15-month old son, or a gay spouse who set their partner on fire as they slept or shot them dead in cold blood after years of abuse and torture? When was the last time we saw anything on an openly gay "high profile" professional who swindled billions of dollars out of unsuspecting and defenseless investors, or who stood at a news conference in despair to announce that they have "disgraced their family" by being a client of high-priced call girl, or having an extra marital affair? Yet, sadly, these examples are all from the headlines in just the last year involving the below par behavior of "straight, partnered people" -- the same people who continue to sit in judgement of those who truly love one another and want to be together. Is that REALLY too much to ask for or even be bothered enough about to oppose?

This country is founded on the most primal of rights - the right to disagree. However out and out discrimination - defined as judging a person or persons as "unworthy" of having what the majority is afforded - is wrong; always has been and always will be. And please spare me of your "opinion" regarding where I shall go after my death and keep it to yourself. Pretending to know is nothing more than ignorance and arrogance. Try focusing all this energy on making yourself a better person who contributes positively to the betterment of our society.

to the one who asked what will making gay marriage teach our children...Hopefully tolerance

Barney Frank's roommate running a male prostitution ring out of Barney's apartment. That's right ....Barney did not know about it. How many men in high powered positions who are gay and use their power to scheme and manipulate. I know a few. One I know has destroyed lives and careers....please don't even touch that one. Don't use the homosexual community as an example for us to live by.

searoses, you have to explain the similarities of man being gay and a man molesting his daughter, I don't think you thought that one through. I don't care what people do in their bedrooms, just don't drag it out in the open and expect everyone else to embrace it.

Man...

The hostility and redneck attitude exuded here amaze me... it's the same mentality I ran from Georgia to escape.

Religion is not the basis for civil law folks... First of the 10 commands "You shall have no other gods before Me." Well guess what? This country is founded on freedom to worship ANY god of your own choosing, immediately removing all doubt about whether or not our legal foundation is based in judeo-christian tenants.

The mentality exhibited here this morning is the same mentality that, if it had its way, would keep civil rights from ever moving forward, would keep interracial marriage illegal in the States, and would prevent women from doing as they choose with their own bodies and growths therein. If it had its way we'd be living under a christian Taliban.

Time to put superstitious fears to bed and enact civil law that extends equally to all responsible adults. Let god, or whoever, deal with the spiritual aspects of it all and for Christ's sake: quit judging your neighbor with such hostility. Your religion preaches against such nonsense.

Maine is full of backwoods bigots, and this will never pass. I find it amusing how people are quoting the bible, and most of them have never stepped foot in a church. I too would like to hear some defense other than religion. What are people so afraid of? If gays want to be married....and you truly believe it is a sin, isn't it THEIR sin? Let them worry about it. It isn't your business. To all of you that are so against it-do you personally know any gay people? And if you do, are they bad people? No, they aren't. I have gay friends and they are no different than anyone else, hell, they are better than some. It's time people in this state, and this country realize what this country is supposed to be about-FREEDOM. Isn't that what we fight so hard to keep? Isn't that what our founding fathers wanted for us all? Equal rights for ALL not just SOME? People make me sick.

JoyJessun: You don't want homosexuals to "flaunt" their sexuality but its ok for you to flaunt that you are a close minded bigot? What about the people who don't believe in your God? I believe that this is a free country, where we each have the right to our own religion and beliefs. Also, some of us still believe in the seperation of Church and State. Ever heard of that?

Satans greatest victory...he knew he could win souls when he could make something ugly look beautiful and something beautiful ugly...

Tedlick, I have actually been quite happy this morning. When I heard the news yeterday I had a strong suspicion that I would see a lot of hate. When I got to work this morning I thought I was right as the first few people to post were against the bill, but as the day rolls on I have seen quite a lot of people that support it, showing me that there is a chance it can make it through, we just have to work hard to educate as many people as we can.

The wisdom of a child....My oldest child when he first learned about sexuality came to me sometime later and asked me if I knew any homosexuals. I said yes I did. (He asked that years ago). He then asked were there some when I was growing up. I said yes there was, but you couldn't tell who they were. Then he said how come you can tell now. Is it something they learn? I said I didn't know. Then he said, but then he said, in a quiet voice....the parts don't even fit together.

How about we define marriage to include a man and his dog? Or a woman and her snake? Or, perhaps we should let pedophiles and their victims marry, as long as they are both happy? Just because someone suggests they are born a certain way, or have certain desires, does not make them right, much less equivalent to traditional marriage. If you want to get married, find a partner of the opposite sex. Otherwise, call it something else. Intruding on or co-opting my rights only belittles them.

brianz,

I'll take that to heart. I do know that generally speaking I find Maine to be very open-minded for such a rural area. Whenever this topic comes up, however, it seems to bring out the Michael Heaths of the world. Bigoted, hateful, and spiteful people spouting off hostilities while using a religion they don't even understand to defend their point of view.

Thanks for keeping me on a positive train of thought.

Elizabethann,

Satan hasn't won yet. He has yet to make something as ugly as your hatred for your fellow man look beautiful. There's still hope.

JoyJessun:

You are cancer to society.

You no doubt serve any purpous to your community.

You know nothing about religion because if you did you wouldn't be ranting against humans like this and yes homosexuals are human.

I feel so bad for your children if you have any, because they would not be accepted by you if they were gay, and being the way you are towards the gay lifestyle, your child if gay would probally end their life in suicide,and that is pittifull because of your ignorance you would turn them away. You are what makes me believe that gay people can raise children better then being taught stupidity like yourself. God will not be there for you in the end because of the way that you judge people, so stop throwing the religon around because your going to be punished in the end.

I have no hatred for my fellow man. I wish them a life that is blessed.

Making the argument of a man marrying a dog, woman a snake or a pedophile their victim is, no offense, ridiculous. As has been said before, an animal can't sign a piece of paper nor does it have consciousness. The laws rightfully take a persons mental capacity into account for marriage and for sexual acts. A ten year old does not have the wherewithal to make descions like that. Gay marriage is between two consenting adults and has nothing to do with your rights, just like interracial marriage didn't in 1967 when the Supreme Court made it legal.

I suspect that if I were to legally marry my boyfriend, life would continue for all those who are against same-sex marriage as if nothing had happened. We would still be living together as we are now, still building our future together, but there would be 1,138 federal laws now applicable to us in which marital status is a factor in determining or receiving benefits, rights, and privileges.

Would you even know if we were married? Short of actually informing you, you would not know, nor, really, would you even care about me and my life. Just as I don't care about you or your life. I just want to be left alone to enjoy my life as an American with the man I love and you can go on living married to the one you want to be married to. Live and let live.

As for finding a woman and marrying her simply because some people and some religions dictate that that is how I should marry, I find it odd that the word "love" does not enter into those instructions. As a gay man, I want to be free to marry the man I love. It seems that for some straight people, the marriage requirements are fewer-simply marry a person of the opposite sex. Really, just what IS the purpose of marriage if not to spend the rest of one's life with the one you love and have that union blessed by either God or the government?

Lastly, will someone please let us know how straight people in Massachusetts are being harmed by the gay people who get married there? And lastly lastly, will someone who is against same-sex marriage propose some way to REALLY preserve the sanctity of marriage, such as making divorce harder to get and prevent marriage annulments, even maybe make ALL engaged couples take marriage preparatory classes? Clean your own house first.

Dave in Maine

I love lesbians, I could watch them for hours.

WILL GAY MARRAIGES HELP THE 124TH LEGISLATURE BALANCE THE BUDGET???? IF SO EVEN THE GOV MIGHT GO AGAINST HIS OWN CHURCH TRAINING.

"Love and marriage, love and marriage

Go together like a horse and carriage

This I tell you brother

You cant have one without the other"

Dave in Maine

"WILL GAY MARRAIGES HELP THE 124TH LEGISLATURE BALANCE THE BUDGET???? IF SO EVEN THE GOV MIGHT GO AGAINST HIS OWN CHURCH TRAINING."

Think about all the taxes from a whole other demographic getting married. Florists, bakers, seamstresses (that's a lot of s's), reception halls. I know I am getting married in March and my fiance's mother is paying upwards of 14,000 and with the way her family drinks, add another two or three thousand for the bar bill. All of those revenue for the state from the taxes, the jobs created certainly couldn't hurt.

Chemaine, I am starting to enjoy your posts more. Your level of bitterness and hostility are very interesting. I am going to take it as a hobbie to figure out from where your anger starts. You project your anger outward, I'm guessing in an attempt to cover your inward opinion of your self. Lets start with your weight, your probably already past muffin top and the whole cake is falling over the edge, right? I bet that made High School very hard on you. I understand, kids can be cruel. Its ok to be you though. Look in the mirror and say "i love myself, ALL of me". Who really needs to see their toes anyway.

For those interested in gaymainer's mention of "there would be 1,138 federal laws now applicable to us in which marital status is a factor in determining or receiving benefits, rights, and privileges", you can find that list for yourself by copying and pasting the URL below into your browser window:

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/og97016.pdf

Sorry I can't make it clickable.

For all you atheists and agnostics, why can't you leave the social/spiritual/religious institution of "marriage" alone? You try so hard to separate church and state, so why don't you opt for civil unions or something similar? But we all know why, don't we? And it has nothing to do with "Love".

We aren't bigots here in Maine, we're just thinking clearly. Gay people shouldn't marry. Butch lesbians shouldn't marry. The only type of homosexual marriage there should be is "Lipstick Lesbians" or at least decent looking ones. The ones down in Fuzion/Benjamins in Bangor are pretty frickin' butch. I'm talking about a slender 120 pound girl with at least a C cup and her girlfriend of the same proportion should be able to marry.

thats my fantasy, we welcome yours

"For all you atheists and agnostics, why can't you leave the social/spiritual/religious institution of "marriage" alone"

I'm catholic, does that mean I can still help to get the bill passed?

They wil, they are beginning with you! Maybe you secluded people need more community activity than sexual..... that's all you think about... yuk

sorry homosexuals

I'm agnostic, meaning that I don't have a belief in most religious stuff... yet I believe marriage is woman-man

Seriously, can a guy get a guy pregnant?

or what about a woman and woman?

yeah I bet there are alternatives (such as going to a sperm bank, or that guy that took all that female hormone shit and gave birth to a kid). But in nature (and I'm coming from a scientific viewpoint), female and male speices reproduce by having sex with each other. Homosexuality is found throughout nature, but thats usually because the animal is either retarded, confused, or just wanted to bust a nut. In reality though no animal can reproduce with out a female or male, not male>male or female>female.

Your debate over witch you LIBTARDS is unfounded both scientifically and morally. Even if I don't believe in the bible, its not right unless you are retarded, confused, or just wanted to bust a nut by hujman beings to marry the same sex and fill out a relationship. I'd rather have 3 holes than 2.

What is with the right-wingers always feeling like they have to "protect" us from something. At least the war-hawk conservatives have a tangible "threat" to cite, though. The bible-hawks have a vague concept, and one that has been degraded about as much as it can be to begin with. You self- prescribed "Christians" don't have the slightest clue what Christianity is about (tolerance, in this case). Until you figure it out (or ditch it all together, best case scenario), please spare us your phony "protection". As for the children, I really don't think that being raised by gay parents will screw them up any more than wacko Christian fundamentalists screw up their kids, so until we outlaw that.....

On 1/14/09 at 07:55 AM, DouglasWatts wrote:

I support gay marriage because it will make Maine that much closer to Massachusetts.

yea i want to become just like those m*!&^#%s.

not leave maine the way it is.

i also agree with elaine

On 1/14/09 at 08:27 AM, elaine wrote:

Great the way some folks throw the word "bigot' around. Don't think the way they do--YOU ARE A BIGOT!!!! yup, that will work. I'm against PETA, I'm a BIGOT, also against Islamic terrorists...BIGOT again, Illegal immigration, oops, BIGOT. I have no opinion anymore. I am now labeled, Bigot, leftie, rightie inconsiderate. I HAVE AN OPINION, I'm an American, get over it, or move to China.

if we force our idea of what is right we are BIGOTs but if they try to force gay marriage on us, they are oppressed, does this seem right to anyone.

JeffDubay, You are correct. Any Civil Union could be protected and can now with things such as living wills, domestic partner insurance coverage, etc. Marriage to some (the insane) is an easier option because you don't have to do all the legal crap. I, personally am one of the unprototected who has been with the same person for 10 years. I will have to fight in court for any rights and I will receive no benefits in the event that my partner dies and WE are male and female. The biggest reason that the leg. doesn't want to get involved in changing the law is that they probably would be faced with the next issue, common law marriage, which Maine does not have. In a way, this is forcing people to get married just as much as preventing same sex couples from marrying. So I am being discriminated against also for not getting married. I totally agree with you on Fathers Rights as well, we need reform in this area, but it really is up to honorable men to take the time and effort to change this because it is because of the irresponsibility of men in the first place that these laws were written this way.. Just take a look at child deaths in Maine this year.

Fearless, you're funny. Frostheev, I am sure all the partentless kids or children of addicts that are starving would love to have two loving SAME SEX parents. viper13, what's your reason for thinking gay people should not have children? Do you have a PhD in Psychology?

Holy JoyJessum, I really hope you can sleep tonight because if I damned an entire population like that I think I would have a hard time in wondering what God had planned for ME. If you want to bring God into it. Sexuality in general is a mortal sin and sex is only to be had in order to reproduce. So guess what? Us heteros are in trouble too then! One other thing. Why is everyone talking about religion seriously when basically no part of society lives by any religion today. Everyone thinks that they are allowed to pick and choose which of the religious rules they want based upon the direct benefit to them, which is also a sin. Hell, the churches change their foundations dependent upon societal changes. That ought to tell everyone something.

I posed the question last night, no one answered, so I'll put it out there again. I would like the pro gay people to answer this: If it should not matter to anyone if two adults are in love and chose to marry, than you must also think that it is perfectly ok for a father and daughter or mother and son to marry if they are in love and are both adults, am I correct? That is one question that has been raised before, but I have yet to see a pro gay rights activist answer it.

pouley read my post again with an open mind...I was stating the a straight man is far more likely to molest his child than a gay man...because some one post that a ny gay raising a child was infact by raising that child abusing it...

brianz, are you sure that animals do not have conciousness?

Gay marriage will be extremely good for Maine's economy. Gay couples are model citizens and improve property values wherever they choose to live. If certain churches don't want to marry them so be it. After all the Catholic Church supposedly does not marry divorced people (despite the spate of annullments). Gay people deserve the same rights as everyone else.

Wow, duckwa, fat jokes? And that makes you better than Chemaine because...

i doubt that there are any gays in Piscataquis County... if there are and they get married in the town I live in hahaha, lol you're in for a treat.

to thekingofmaine:

So, given the arguments you put forth, the only time you've had sex has been when you were trying to get someone pregnant? Somehow I have trouble believing that, which (not witch) makes your point invalid (your point was made invalid by the fact that you are here to stir up hate and discontent, I only replied because I know there are others out there that think gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because it doesn't result in children and I wanted them to read this). Have a nice day.

thekingofmaine,

Seeing as oral sex doesn't promote procreation, it is not "normal" even for a man and woman. In fact, in some Southern states, oral sex between consenting male/female couples was considered a crime and prosecuted accordingly until a few short years ago.

But why are you so hung up on sex? Something tells me that you're simply not bright enough to see that relationships among human animals are far more complex than just sex, and just procreation.

Honestly: I pity you.

As an argument escalates, it becomes more and more likely that the argument will belay hidden personal feelings toward the situation. In the case of thekingofmaine, a strong obession with homosexuality is evident, and a tendency toward these types of feelings is displayed by lurid description of gay sex acts in his arguments. Maybe you should change your name to thequeenofmaine, freddie mercury...

BOOGYMAN (I put your name in all caps to make sure you will see it), here is my answer to your question. There is a very good reason for a mother and son or a father and a daughter not to get married. It's called genetic deformity. Here is a link for some effects of inbreeding...

http://cc.ysu.edu/~helorime/inbred.html

Inbreeding is something that affects the physically affects the children.

Judgement Day it will all be determined.

David889327,

No, I am not sure whether animals have consciousness or not, but if they do I would go ahead and put them in the category of not having the ability to intelligently consent to having sex with a human.

duckwa : your post to Chemaine was just plain mean and I take offence to it...I'll agree she a little over the top...but get real there buddy!!! You have just described me and many others in this world...I'm far from bitter because of what I've gone though ....but it has made me more forgiving and understanding....and I do understand what you are saying and why you feel that way sorry you hit a nerve

"Judgement Day it will all be determined."

Yes and unless someone is God they don't have the ability to judge that for themselves.

"Judge not, that you be not judged"

Christianity. Matthew 7.1-5

"Let the person among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

John 8:7

i.e. Who are you?

NerdedesJ

Can we just leave it that way? Extend the guarantees of government and taxation equally to all couples, regardless of sexual identity and let whomever figure it out on "Judgment Day"? That sounds perfect to me!

So brianz, what one of the partners in the relationship agreed to be steralized, you and the gay community would be perfectly OK with A mother marrying her son?

And I guess brianz, since the risk of a child being born with down syndrome if the mother is over 40 goes up exponentially, you would be OK with banning women over 40 from having children?

Im not saying that sex is wrong or relationships with gays, I just think that they should stop being so damn open about it

Anne, that was no joke. I don't think I am better then chemaine. I have much bigger skelitons in my closet. I just don't go on the offensive with the bitterness that she feels inclined to do. I just want to help her understand where it comes from and make her feel a little better about herself. All of her.

Chemaine does not appear to be rational or intelliegent

Yes your right Brianz...what you quoted from scripture. We are not to judge, but in being silent and not calling something what it is sin for what it is, which is sin, sin.

If someone says they know God and believe in God then they will try to do what He says because they know God is a loving God and He wants the best for us. They have an idea of what the character of God is and what is pleasing to Him and what isn't. God gives us the right as a christian to judge the sin but not the sinner. We are all sinners. If we don't judge the sin, name it as it is displeasing or pleasing to God then how will we know if we are right with God. As a Christian, we are not to be silent when we see something that is sin. Silence enables wrong behavior or unjust laws to be enacted or to continue.

By the way there are scripture readings on homosexuality

1 Corinthians 6: 9-10

Leviticus 18: 22

Leviticus 20: 13

Romans 1: 26-27

thekingofmaine:

If a man and woman can walk down the streets holding hands, why can't 2 men or 2 woman?

What do you mean by being so open about it?

How many men have you seen having sex on the street? or for that matter woman having sex on the street.

Open about their relationship, like a man and woman would walking hand and hand, or kissing in public?

Boogyman, your post play the devil's advocate quite well. Without doing much research I would have to say...

Because banning a woman over 40 from having children would require her to either

a: get sterilized or,

b: stop having sex altogether

Saying a parent can't impregnate/be impregnated by their child is doing neither of those.

Also there is the fact that a parent has quite a bit of influence over their child making true consent difficult to assertain.

Elizabethann

Our civil law is not based upon your holy book. Nor the Muslim holy book. Nor the scientologist holy book. We've already discussed that. To quote myself:

"First of the 10 commands "You shall have no other gods before Me." Well guess what? This country is founded on freedom to worship ANY god of your own choosing, immediately removing all doubt about whether or not our legal foundation is based in judeo-christian tenants."

Why do you fundie types persist in using your holy book against a discussion that deals with American civil law?

Elizabethann

I believe that if someone wants to point out something that they believe to be a sin they are more than welcome to do so, but say that homosexuality is a sin and condemning a homosexual to hell is another thing. You did not do either so I have no problem with anything you have said. It was those people who talk of fire and brimstone and sodom and gomorrah that I was addressing. I should have pointed that out and I am sorry I did not.

I think the main point is that by trying to prevent gay marriage through law people are throwing stones. They are not expressing their opinion, they are punishing. They are throwing stones of legality and I disagree with that.

brianz, you've never tried to have sex with an unwilling animal? I'm tellin ya, it's quite a ride! Ayuh.

"On 1/14/09 at 10:50 AM, duckwa wrote:

Chemaine, I am starting to enjoy your posts more. Your level of bitterness and hostility are very interesting. I am going to take it as a hobbie to figure out from where your anger starts. You project your anger outward, I'm guessing in an attempt to cover your inward opinion of your self. Lets start with your weight, your probably already past muffin top and the whole cake is falling over the edge, right?.... "

Funny, being insulted by some half-wit hick who likley believes a flannel shirt is a high class dinner jacket to be worn on a "classy date" to the local Dysart's. Good work, though, with personal attacks (all misguided and incorrect, but I have far too little respect for you---or anyone whose posts are are stupid as yours---to fret too much about it). I have little doubt your parents were related, which explains, at least some of, your being republican/stupid.

Maybe stick to your juvenile spouting of myopic invective (sorry, given your proclivity toward parochial small-mindedness you may need to consult a dictionary---it's one of those big books you're likely unfamiliar with).

It is a pity that morons like you, i.e. people who don't see the parallels between banning discriminating against gays and blacks and women, are given an equal right to vote. While it would never work logistically, some sort of intelligence test to ascertain voting priviledge would really help this country.

Given the current divorce rate (and I would be a statistic), I'd have to say 'straight' people don't have a handle on marriage. Maybe we can learn something about commitment from our gay friends and neighbors.

How many heterosexual marriages take place because the couple is truly and unconditionally in love with each other and want to spend eternity together. And how many marriages take place because one party needs a sugar daddy (or sugar mama), or because everyone else is getting married, or because or because you just want to feel special and wear a pretty dress or the biological clock is ticking or - and this is a very popular option - whoops! I'm pregnant. AND how many marriages take place because the Hollywood types can't separate onscreen life from real life, think they are in love and don't realize it was just gas until the rental tent has been disassembled and the caterer has been paid. Those are the people who should not get married.

Take a good hard look at why you find gay marriage so offensive - it's not that gay people work, drive, vote, shop, pay taxes. It''s what they might do on their honeymoon. It's none of your business. So just focus on keeping your relationships solid and healthy, and don't worry about what Tom and Frank are doing next door.

And one more thing - if we had a more open mind about accepting the sexual preferences of others (and remember, just because someone is straight does NOT necessarily mean he's got normal sexual desires) the Catholic Church might not be in such turmoil.

Actually...I have learned alot since I have been on this BDN comment section. What I have found out I don't like. There is so much rudeness and vulgarity. I've realized that we need divine intervention. I guess God will have to be the One to do it. Free will a beautiful thing...but with free will comes responsibility. It seems like all hell has broken loose. We are reaping what we sow. I will pick my articles to comment on very carefully from now on. Only those that uplift and celebrate life. I don't think I'll be posting much. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how quickly things have spiraled down in the past few months? Lord have mercy on us all...

I'm very glad that these people who are against gay marriage hold themselves so far above the homosexual "sinners". Why is that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry because its a sin, but convicted felons, child molestors, etc have full right to marry the person they love, as long as its a member of the opposite sex. Are they not "sinners"? What does "sinning" have to do with civil law? Everyone keeps quoting the Bible. There is a seperation of Church and State, people. That means that our law is not governed by the Bible. Every person is created equally, and in this supposed free country they should have the same rights as everyone else. Gay people can't marry the love of their life, but some people can get married two, three, four times, and each one is a SACRED union because a man marries a woman? What gives ANY of you the right to judge how anyone else lives their life? Because the Bible says its a sin? Well, if thats what you believe, then God created homosexuals, and they are homosexual because that is part of God's plan. BUT they shouldn't have the right to live the life that they want to live. How does it affect you? Will you even be able to tell? No, you won't. It won't affect your life, or marriage, or religion. What about the homosexuals that don't believe in the Bible? The way they live their life is going to be governed by what OTHER people, (people they don't know, will never know, and people that don't understand their life) believe in? I think everyone needs to get off their high horse and realize that we are all DIFFERENT, and thats what makes this country beautiful and unique.

Elizabethann,

"Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how quickly things have spiraled down in the past few months? Lord have mercy on us all... "

Please tell me that doesn't have anything to do with Obama being elected president.

fearless----go back and read my previous comment.

Elizabethann--- you are so right.

Everyone who claims to be homosexual wasn't BORN THAT WAY. It's easy to tell the ones that really were. For the rest, that's their good excuse for what they are doing. A LACK OF MORALS is a better discription. They think that if it feels good---go with it. And blame it onto---I can't help it, I was born that way. BS !

Long overdue.

Govt2Big once again defeats his own argument (proving it to be irrational and based on fear not fact) when he writes: "Since marriage has been defined as sacred union between a MAN abd a WOMAN for countless years" and that refers to dictionary.com's definition. That definition does not support his argument because it does not include anything about marriage being a sacred union in fact it refers to it as a "social institution" i.e. a secular not sacred union. As other comments have pointed out his argument is just moronic when you consider slavery.

I challenge the gay haters to present one specific, grounded in fact, secular argument that gay marriage has or can cause any social problem. Generalities, fatally flawed arguments like Govt2Big's, circular arguments, arguments based on the misinterprestation of the bible not accepted. No arguments about "traditional" marriage. Traditional is just a code word for "biblical" and as we know the biblical form of marriage was plural marriage not marriage between a man and a women.

eastmainer

Have you one shred of evidence in support that homosexuals aren't born that way?

I take nothing on faith: you must offer evidence, and true evidence can't come from a holy book.

So, while I eagerly await your evidence I offer that morality is different from person to person, and is not defined by natural law in any way.

Eastmainer,

I know this is a personal question, but have you had sex out of wedlock. If you have than you are no better than those you claim have no morals. If you haven't congrats, but I'm sure you've sinned other times which once again, makes you no better.

I don't think homosexuality is a sin, I just think its naturally wrong. The parts don't go together. but whatever you know? let them do what they want to do and stop being so flamboyant

So eastmainer, you weren't born heterosexual. I can see you now head down in your crossed arms 7 years old whispering "gay or straight" which do I want to be. Kinda' like eine meine minei mo.

Now who has a lack of morals - heterosexuals with a 50% divorce rate, domestic abuse through the roof including slaughtered wifes, girfriends, children, and husbands (like the 5 killed a few days ago), cheating which is now a national sport (soon to be on FoxSports), sexting, 20% of all rented films are porn. Yep I can see your argument surely heterosexuals have shown the strength of their morals.

and I don't have a problem with gays raising kids...but when the kid gets old enough to realize that mommy is actually a guy who wears lipstick and *tucks in* and sings Goodbye Horses... I think thats wrong

fearless :

Very well put, I think that is the best most informative comment yet.

I hope that you respond to more of these commentors who keep throwing religion into the mix

thekingomaine,

If homosexuality wasn't naturally right, it would not exist. Does everyone with brown hair, or eyes, or skin have the same shade of brown. Why not? Because color is a complex genetic process. Sexuality is even more complex with both genetic and development interactions which produces a wide range of sexual identities. The process is natural then so must the result be natural.

thekingofmaine:

maybe you should go check out xtube and go to the man on man section then you will see that the parts fit perfectly in some instances.

You will probally see that they fit even better.

It is not strickly a gay site either, it is also for straight sex men and woman, maybe the experience will enlighten your outlook on homosexuals.

Most of the men on there could snap you like a twig, they are not all femmy, they are weightlifters and butch rugged construction workers, and some are married on the down low, so if you dont get educated then you can atleast have a good chuckle.

LOL they may not all be femmy, but they're all gay...

SharonFaith,

Again I ask: why do you fundie types keep bringing religion up in a discussion of civil law?

If you're really hell-bent on keeping gays from being treated equally under the law, you must do it through civil law... your religion has no bearing on the case.

May Allah bless you with His peaceful nature.

You are ignoring the question brianz, which is what I would expect, you don't want to answer is honestly with a yes or no because you know if you do....the jigs up.

LOL...

Being sarcastic! I'd hoped that was obvious.

Yep duckwa, she's a heffer alright

tedlick, is that your real name?

SharonFaith: I respect your beliefs. I respect that you were raised to believe in God's word and the Bible, and I respect you for living your life the way that YOU see as honorable. Especially if that is what makes you happy. I also have my own beliefs, that I am not willing to share on these comments, because I feel that religion is a very personal decision. I also respect that everyone has the right to freedom of speech. But I think that there is a difference between stating your opinion and trying to make other people feel bad for the life that they lead. Not everyone believes in the same God that you do, and that is their RIGHT, just as it is your right to believe in Him.

Go ahead and throw the various scriptures regarding homosexuality. That's what a sibling did to me. I turn quoted a few of the ten commandments that applied to him when he was cheating on his wife - "Thou shall not commit adultery", "Thou shall not lie", "Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife"

Civil law was once written on natural law and God's law. Otherwise socities would collapse within themselves. Which is exactly what's happening. How many of you know the declaration of independance was written by christians and based on God and christian philosophy? Few I suppose. Either that or they choose to ignore it.

Your right Sharon..God bless you and yours...remember when speaking of Jesus we must wear sandals... ;)

Is covet the same thing a bang.....if so I'm in trouble....

David889327,

Nope... Tedlick was a halfling thief in AD&D a lifetime ago... been my online name since '94 or so.

SharonFaith,

Everything is a laughing matter. Depends on perspective.

fearless,

Well said! Well said indeed.

Elizabethann,

One of the most fundamental portions of our civil law goes directly against Commandment #1. Though they may have been christian (well, some of them: many others, Jefferson is my favorite, were adamant about keeping all gods out of our government) they did not base our law on judeo-christian law.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

According to your holy book, by allowing any god people choose, we're already damned to hell.

Straight up, heres the way I see it: You want homosexuals to stop "flaunting" it, throwing it in our faces, and to keep it behind closed doors? thats the way I feel about religion.

there are few yes or no answers in life and where your comming from is black and white so in black white terms yes you should be able to marry your daughter if you want and even your dog....it's your life a long as your not hurting any one there's to much goverment control anyways

this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YTkxr3j2HQ

Ok, chemaine, it appears I hit a nerve. That is about as much original content from you, that wasn't cut and pasted, as I have ever seen. I must be on the right track. Now that we know the source, lets work on your self esteem. Later we can work on a healthy outlet for you. You were so caught up in your usual diatribe that you didn't mention weather or not you did your mirror exercise. Try it... just look in the mirror and say "I love myself and I don't need to put other down to feel better." Its just a start so don't expect to be cured all at once. Remember... you are a beautiful person and those people in High School didn't know what they were talking about. Don't worry!!! You really are going to get through this.

thekingofmaine,

That was too damned funny... thank you so much for that.

I needed a laugh!

Good new for the homos. Obama may lift the ban on homo's in the millitary. They will be able to join and get benefits too.

SteveyDee,

But their partners will NOT be entitled to said benefits.

That's what this whole things is about in the first place.

Altleast they will have medical. Then they can room mate and really save money.

tedlick:

There are several businesses where gay people work where they can include their partners even if they aren't married, so that blows your theory

The constitution was written keeping in mind moral law and God's law.

These men were not stupid. John Locke was a christian philosopher. He was the greatest influence on those who wrote and signed the Declaration of Independance. The writers and signers of this document believed in absolute law and absolute truth. Which they believed came from God. They believed in the authority of the scripures. John Witherspoon, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Adams on and on they were all christians. The home of Adams family was cinsidered the "house of prayer".

It's amazing what learned through homeschooling one of my kids. Check it out on line.

So I have one pro gay marriage person who thinks it's OK to marry your child or your hamster, any other takers?

anonon,

Nope. Business, in certain states but not all, can extend domestic partner benefits to same sex domestic partners. There is no obligation to, even for them.

With the military and Federal government, there is no such domestic partnership benefit program.

So, I'm still dead on: gays in the military will NOT see their partners recognized for financial or medical benefits.

Wish that weren't the case, but that's how the law stands today.

Elizabethann,

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")

Those do NOT sound like the words of a good christian to me... Nice try though.

Not that hard to understand...Jefferson knew as Christians we are called to live the life of a christian. And many of us fall short. He knew that of himself. I know that of myself. That doesn't mean that we should ignore basic natural and moral law and live in country that does not even attempt to live in a civilized fashion.

By the way...the way you started your post....millions of men, women, and children...and you go on....thought you were talking about abortion.

Another thing...how do these homosexual couples plan to keep the population of the planet going? The choices are cloning or sperm from males who are willing to give it up. Seems to me humans will be on the extinction list in a few years.

Another thing...we have let government and corporations govern themselves. No one is regulating them. Look at the chaos. We will all pay for it. All of us. Unless you have a million stashed under a mattress somewheres or a coffee can buried in the back yard, you're in for a rough ride. If man makes laws to govern people and corporations out of compassion to keep us from self imploding, then why wouldn't a God who is perfect in nature and is his creation, why wouldn't He want the same for the men He created? Why wouldn't He have His own set of rules. There is moral law and absolute truths.

Elizabethann

Keep the population of the planet going?! WTF?

We need a reduction in the number of people on this rock, not an increase.

That aside, however, these homosexual couples are not telling everyone on the planet to become homosexual. One either is or ain't and the ain'ts will keep breeding. It took over 200 years to overpopulate ourselves to the point we're at, so I'm sure it'll take more than "a few years".

And "He" has "His" own set of rules. Our civil law simply does not mirror them. If that leads us to damnation, then we're all damned.

And, now that you mention it, I am pro abortion as well.

Cheers...

May have been asked already, but if 3 or 4 woman are willing to marry one man, is that ok if they all love each other?

Well - -I knew it was too good to last. I just knew that sooner or later someone would have to start citing scripture and imposing their religious beliefs and biblical interpretations on the rest of us. Between the issue of gay marriage coming to Maine and the recent news that Obama is going to repeal 'don't ask don't tell', I would think this is a hard day for many intolerant people. I'm happy to see our society becoming more accepting.

Well I had one serious taker on my question I asked, and got a weak response. The truth is, gays always use the argument about how it should only matter that two people are in love, not anything else. However, when you ask them if they believe in a mother in son are in love, should they be allowed to marry, they become very quiet. That is because they DON'T think that they should, but if they answer honestly, they will use the same argument that people use to say that gays should not marry. Or in the case of brianz, he uses the argument of possible birth defects from an insestuous marriage, but then the next logical question I would respond to him with is "don't you support the right of a woman to chose what she does with her own body", and then he's trapped. Don't let these people fool you with all of their acceptance and understanding rhetoric, it's all a smoke screen.

Boogyman: While some of what you said actually made sense, and I feel that you presented a good argument for your opinion (please don't take that phrasing to mean that i'm trying to argue with you, i'm not) I don't agree with all of it. Yes, a I feel that a woman should be able to do what she wants with her body, BUT marrying your son, possible birth defects, and all of that do not include the health/happiness of just the WOMAN. That puts the possible child's health at risk.. A gay partnership, even one that results in children (through artificial insemination, or adoption) does not affect the health of a child. I'm sure this comment will spark many debates on a childs wellbeing, as some people think that 2 gay people aren't capable of raising a normal child. (which I couldn't disagree with more)

I'm on a roll....there are alot of vulgar comments here in this post. I often wonder if I would meet any of these people on the street, could I connect the posts to a face because of the way they act or what they say. I am no different than who I portray myself to be as on-line as off-line. God wants us to change from within. We all fall short. We are to place His law in our hearts and in our minds and treat each other accordingly. Obviously, the direction in which our country is going signals a malfunction somewhere. First was God's law...which He gave to Moses. We couldn't follow that so we had to make our own laws. The law is supposed to be written on our hearts out of love for mankind. Anything that hurts humanity physically, emotionally, or spiritually is not from God. That's an easy rule to follow when establishing laws of the land.

well fearless, do you support the right of a woman to do what she chooses with her own body? I don't buy the birth defect defense when that same person thinks its perfectly ok to abort a child. A fetus is a child also, what I am hearing is a that a woman can kill a fetus, but should not have the option of conceiving an incestuous child if she so chooses. It simply does not compute. I mean really what puts a childs health more at risk than killing it?

JoyJessun, you should really calm down, homosexuals are not waiting in the streets to convert your children to their "deviant" way of life. Someday all you bible thumping hypocrites will realize homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. Scientists have observed homosexual behavior in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms and is documented for 500 of them. I'm no expert on the bible, but did Jesus preach destruction of those he didn't understand? Focus on your own life, maybe you'll lose some of that anger and bitterness.

All this talk about the next step being legalization of bestiality and incest would be hysterically funny if you people weren't so serious. Let's take every law now being considered by Congress and take it to it's most exaggerated possibility. It's a fun exercise. I'll go first. Not renewing the Bush tax cuts for billionaires will mean that Bill Gates is going to be forced to give all his money to Cuba! We've got to stop this before it's too late!! Obama wants Castro to have his own mansion and yacht!

Who wants to go next?

Scientists have also noted retardation and birth defects in just as many species. I don't think they would classify that as normal.

Tedlick:

I work at a business in Hancock county in Maine and the business I work for, if you and your same sex partner live together and have the same mailing address, have a joint checking account, they are able to be on your medical and dental insurance, and can use the fitness facility. They are also able to be your beneficiary to your life insurance. Maybe not all businesses or the military, but there are businesses in Maine that support benefits to same sex partners.

Bcb, I do think the beastiality thing is over the top and doesn't apply. Incest, even if the child is of age is a stretch, and as science has shown has its own problems that exclude it. I do think that there are some major issues that this reasoning creates that nobody on that side of the issue seems to want to aknowledge. The standard of the love each other, so why not does open the door to many in this country that believe in plural marriage. There really isn't that much of a stretch. So would the gay lobby say that plural marriage should be allowed? They are consenting adults after all. Then what about abuse issues? 2 guys that use to share an apartment and split the cable, now have a tax cut and suivership rights. They could at least address the issues instead of saying anyone that disagrees is just hateful. Its not all or nothing for everybody.

King you are a dirty Lew!!!!!!!! Funny movie. I guess the people from Lewiston might not like it. Anyone from there might want to got the link and check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YTkxr3j2HQ

They don't want to have open discussions. If for whatever reason you are against gay marriage, you are a homophobe to them. They "celebrate" diversity, as long as it's diversity they agree with.

Same tactics as Jessie Jackson and company, if you don't agree with whatever they say, your a racist or a bigot. No one likes being labeled, so is a mildly successful tactic.

I suggest that homosexuality is a genetic disorder, because quite frankly, I can't see where it fits into any scheme of procreation or evolution. It's simply an idea, but I got called a homophobe, and a knuckle dragger among other things. I really don't care if someone chooses to love or have sex with a member of the same sex. However, I do believe that this country was founded on a simple set of principles, and has been sustained by following certain traditions, in my OPINION; I do not think gay marriage fits into those principles or traditions. I think that every time those principles or traditions are compromised, it puts us one day closer to the extinction of the United States. It is kind of an anything goes mentality, which I believe will one day be the downfall of this country. That is my OPINION. For the record, this has nothing to do with religion for me, I consider myself an agnostic (not to be confused with an atheist) because I can neither prove with any certainty that there is or is not a God.

I agree with you boogyman....alot of common sense for an agnostic..for some it maybe a genetic disorder...for others a choice of life style. But I won't be silenced.

Boogyman, well said for a knuckle dragging racist homophobe, but what do I know, I'm just hateful.

Boogyman,

First, I got out of work and had to do some things, i.e. I have a life, so you'll have to excuse me for not being around to answer. I thought I had answered that question.

"Because banning a woman over 40 from having children would require her to either

a: get sterilized or,

b: stop having sex altogether

Saying a parent can't impregnate/be impregnated by their child is doing neither of those. "

So, how did I not answer.

Next, I haven't called anyone a homophobe and have tried to be respectful of everyones point of view. Can the same be said of you?

"On 1/14/09 at 01:39 PM, boogyman wrote:

Yep duckwa, she's a heffer alright"

chemaine does not count, she is a vile hateful human being. She deserves all of the insults she gets. I have no respect for her opinion, because in little world, hers is all that matters. Your cause would be much better off if she was not in agreement with it.

anonon,

As do I (same county even...).

And I find that refreshing. My home state of GA banned that practice... So, when I worked for Compaq, even though they allowed domestic partnership agreements, the company couldn't in GA. The discussion here was the military allowing gays, but that doesn't help partners of military personnel who may be gay in any way.

Elizabethann,

Enough already. Civil law does not drop from the crotch of your old man in the sky. Thank the gods of Greece and Rome, or we'd be no better than people under the Taliban. Try as you might, it ain't gonna happen. If it did, we'd be no better than Saudis, pushing for the marriage of 10 year old girls to men. Religion has no place in law.

And I am not trying to silence you. Just make you see reality. Civil law does not drop from the crotch of your old man in the sky.

Oh, and I'm as devout in public about my beliefs as I am in this forum, for better and for worse. You'd know me...

BlueCollarBob,

You're a wise man. I hope that you are definitely reproducing, even if I want the population of the world to shrink dramatically.

boogyman,

Consider that maybe homosexuality is a way for an organism to deal with overpopulation in a kinder way than sterilization. We need no more people. If you think we do, you've never lived outside of Maine for long. As for principals of tradition and principles, they must, and always will, change with time. We no longer allow marriage to 6 year olds, or marriage to 12 different people. Things change, and so should you. I see no evidence in the historical record that homosexuality goes against the traditions or principles of this country in any way. Your opinion, no matter how much I agree with it, is priceless, and I encourage you to voice it at all costs.

If you are going to use the bible to plea that Homosexuality is wrong, you must read in Leviticus where the bible proclaims comsuming shell fish to be an abomination!!!! that won't be good for the lobster industry will it??

Wow boogyman, your last post was pathetic. It amazes me that so many of you sewage-spewing idiots think you're better than anyone else. Pardon me while I hurl.

God damn you bible bashers! Take a look around... Canada has gay marriage; most of Europe accepts it! Their societies haven't fallen apart. You want a religious country, then move to Saudia Arabia or Iran. I am sick of hearing your hate. Leave the USA to those of us who DO truly understand freedom.

Funny downeastdave how both Canada and Europe rely on the UNITED STATES to defend them. They can have all of their wonderful social programs and diversity, but when the shit hits the fan who has to save their asses? If they have what you want, why don't YOU move.

Finally! I was just thinking to myself yesterday that Maine should get on the ball with gay marriage. Kudos to Mr. Damon. :) I hope it works out

Thanks anne_queenof_mdi. The mere fact that you dissagree with me just confirms to me that I'm on the right track.

And what does our military have to do with gay marriage? ALL that I want is what is already well known history but not practiced... SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

Boogyman,

You still haven't responded to my post. Also, when we had to save Europe they didn't allow gay marriage therefore your post is without a point and to the best of my knowledge we have never had to save Canada, I could be wrong though.

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Maine Christian Civic League

Gays in the military ,,,, I feel if they have the gutts and gore to fight in Iraq and risk their lives for the american people then more power to them.

Homosexuality is part of society and if you put a dot on the forehead of every man or woman that had a sexual experience with the same sex , it would seem as though we lived in India. So people may have differant opinions about the subject. Let people live their own lives and get over it.

There is one thing that I don't understand. I realize there are some of you that for religious reasons, feel that gay marriage is a sin or evil, or whatever. I'm not even going to try to reason with that. But, whatever happened to the unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? And, "all men are created equal." Shouldn't gay men and women have the same rights, even if you don't agree with their choices? I don't like a lot of things other people do, but I acknowledge their right to do them. It's the principles that this country was founded on.

Those lesbians sure are Cunning Linguists.

anonon,

FYI... you and I do not disagree with one another...

SharonFaith,

FYI... if nothing else, the lead pipes in the homes of the rich destroyed rome. Not your boogey man in the sky or his hatred for anything remotely fun or human. Morality only lead to ignoring threats... it did not bring down the wrath of your god.

thekingofmaine,

This is a discussion on civil law, not superstition. Keep your god in your pants.

queenfan04,

You're barking up a dead tree. Fundies care nothing for freedom they don't find spelled out in their little fantasy book (which is no freedom at all).

MoeBolduc, did you ever hear the story about Mrs. Bates and her son Master Bates?

No we have not had to save Canada, the mere fact that we have a border with them is their defense, no one wants to attack our allys unless there is a body of water between us an them. Same for goes for Mexico.

What was your question?

You have not answered mine, do you believe a woman has the right to chose what she does with her body or not? Do you support legalized abortion?

PS. We have been defending Europe each and every day since WWII

how long before some biggot threatens to kill Senator Damon?

Why did Damon stop at defining marriage at two eligible people? Who's to say two is the magic number?

Liberals - Once you open Pandora's box, you can't simply stop just because you think you've gone far enough. You have no objective standard to define what is right and wrong. Does the majority of opinion define morality? If so, is it just the majority of the town, state, country, continent, world? Who's taking the polls? Do cultural norms define morality? Is morality a moving target? Your "enlightened" standards may fit perfectly now, but will they in 25 years? If you have no objective standard, your opinions are just that...opinions...which, in the large scheme of things are meaningless.

Previous posters have trotted out the old, tired, "Well, then you can't eat shellfish, wear fabric made of different materials, etc." Let me address - 1) In the OT, God's chosen people was Israel and His promises, relationship with the Jews was mostly of a physical nature (land, crops, children, etc.). 2) Jesus' death fulfilled all aspects of the law (including the rituals, dietary restrictions, etc.), making it of no effect in this current age. 3) God's moral standards, however, have not changed, which is why we see all manner of sexual sin (hetero and homo) condemned in the NT epistles.

So, stop twisting the Scriptures in an attempt to be cute. It doesn't work. Read the Bible with an open mind and see if you draw a different conclusion.

Fundies only care about freedom....when it comes to smoking, cell phones. money and who gets welfare...and that's because of their money...open your mind and your eyes and see the world as it is....the more I read this stuff...the more ashamed of being Christian I am

Boogyman,

Yes, I do. To be one hundred percent, I do not agree with it personally, but I do not believe that it can or should ever be illegal. And sorry, I had not seen that question.

dirigodad,

Why does one need religion to know the difference between right and wrong? A solid understanding of victimization is all it really takes. Hurt no one, and live free. Pretty simple actually. The whole "do unto others" shtick.

If Israel are god's chosen people, why do you say that one must accept christ to get into heaven? Did god change his mind? Or is he a liar? Seems pretty petty to me to promise something and then take it away cuz someone didn't do your bidding. God's moral standard has obviously changed there.

I've read the bible. Full of holes, actually. And if you understand language translation from something like Greek (GODISNOWHERE), then you know that the mind of man has been involved in the translation of god's fairy tale book. And I did draw a different conclusion: I left the church.

searoses,

Don't give up on your faith due to the actions or speech of others. If you give up on it, make sure you are comfortable with that decision.

I would like to know why Evangelical Christians have a higher divorce rate than atheists but turn around and howl, "Sanctity of marriage" when gays and lesbians want to get married?

As for your "word of God" what you interpret to be is nonsense. God is a God of love not some fundies warp sense of right and wrong.

dirigodad if the Bible is read with an open mind then I think most would see it for what it is a book of fables and stories past down over the years....rewritten...to suit the men that wrote it down in word... and translated it from one langue to another....we all know that words mean one thing in one langue mean something else in another....it even happen in dilect from state to state....morality is taught in a good up bring....allowing gays to marry..will have little to with the corrosion of morality...and to those of you that hate or are hateful to others where are your morals..

here's a iq question:

if all athiests are gay, and all gays are human beings, then are all athiests humans?

Pretty good King.

Sharon Faith a BARNA poll found Evangelical Christians have a higher divorce rate than atheists-so go pick up your own back yard before preaching your hate towards and oppressed population of people.

Gay people are denied housing and jobs all in the name of your "word..." I am not impressed with discrimination.

I can only imagine what persecution gays suffer at the hands of Christians...

SharonFaith,

This is not a discussion of your religion's proposed governance. It is a discussion of civil law.

By vowing that all Americans can worship any god they choose, they've already put your god's commandments asunder. That argument has no validity.

If you don't want to redefine marriage, then petition your government officials to include "civil unions" in all governmental guarantees.

It's not a complicated issue, but one you still refuse to see.

searoses....you said you were ashamed to be a christian. But yet you believe the Bible is full of fables and stories past down over the years. If you don't believe the word of God then how can you call yourself a Christian of which you say you are ashamed of...

Elizabethann,

According to answers.com, a christian is:

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.

3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.

4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.

5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

As Jesus only gave two commandments, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" and “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”, it seems relatively realistic to recognize the bible as a book of parables, meant to enforce those commandments. The rest is stuff from the minds and hearts of man.

If you follow those two commandments, you are by definition a christian. So, it is possible to be ashamed of christians, yet profess to be one.

Elizabethann,

How old do you believe the world is?

Yes it is possible to be ashamed of christians. I can at times do and say stuff I regret. But I will never say the Bible is a fable and stories.

Brianz....if I get to meet God face to face, that will be one of the first questions I ask Him. The next will be a replay of when God sits down next to Adam and gives Adam the honor of naming the animals.

That answer has my utmost respect (not like it really matters, but it does).

I just realized how bad that sounded. The "it does" is about the answer having my respect, not me saying that it matters.

Goodnight everyone. As usual, it was interesting.

Why is it every time people want to show support of gay marriage or gay freedoms they have to bring religion into it? Funny, for people so interested in freedom of choice, you certainly choose to trample on the choice of someone else. If you oppose gay marriage you are immediately a hate monger or religous nut. I do not need to run rampant yelling I'm a heterosexual. Nor do I have to publically display it to make a statement. We already have laws in place, like the Maine wont discriminate, which applies to jobs, banking and other totally irrelevant areas of life, where you will never be asked what your orientation is. This is a waste of taxpayers money, and a complete support of special interests. Time & money that could be spent in better ways. The only people in America that do not have special rights are the straight white men. When did you last get asked what your sexual orientation was in a job interview or on a bank loan? If either of these places know it, then it is because you have chosen to disclose it or have chosen to make a public display of it, so that these institutions have to fear your retaliation if you do not like the terms, conditions or outcomes.

Most homosexuals that I have met, are very nice, very upstanding people. However that does not mean that I have to personally condone what they chose as a lifestyle to accept them as a person. Nor does it mean that I should have to share the estabilishment for what defines me as seperate from them. For years we have seen those in the homosexual lifestyle scream to be allowed to be different and to have that difference accepted. Well you got that, you are different, but even in your difference, you are not happy. Now you want to be different and the same all at once. For people who want to call all that oppose this lifestyle, religious nutty hate mongers who you would never be likened to, you are doing an awful lot to imitate our choices. Imitation is the biggest form of flattery. Think about it. You are against what we see as Gods ordained natural order (male & female), yet in EVERY same gender relationship example I have witnessed there is one member that is overtly feminine and one that is overtly masculine. Even in your choices you mimic this design, trying to make yourselfs fit into this natural order. As a group you have your own clubs, societies, parenting groups, stickers and everthing else I have forgotten to symbolize your unity as a homosexual. You have even taken the Rainbow as your own, when God gave it to Noah as a symbol of His promise to never flood the earth again. You have your civil unions, and special rights, even got the public schools to adopt a homosexual curriculum. and raise families just the same as we do.

So given all that you have, and the special rights too, why should I as a heterosexual be forced to share the title of my union of marriage with you? Frankly, that is the only thing left defining us as heterosexual. And you want this too, so that you can feel more included in a lifestyle that you chose not to take part in? Thank you, but no. If you want that title then you will have to earn it like I did. The choice has always been yours!

Truth is not an opinion, no matter who shouts the loudest in opposition of it, or, even if people CHOOSE not to believe it. Truth is unyielding, no matter what foolishness humans attempt to plot in order to mask, reshape, redefine, or even extinguish it. To those who think the Bible is not God's Word, you only serve to testify to the Bibles truthfulness by exhibiting the attitudes and actions of our (mankinds) fallen state. We all enter this world spiritually still-born and it is not until we are born-again that we truly begin living.

C.S. Lewis had a great way of clearly and concisely expressing truths and here are some of his quotes:

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.'"

"The natural life in each of us is something self-centered, something that wants to be petted and admired, to take advantage of other lives, to exploit the whole universe. It knows that if the spiritual life gets hold of it, all its self-centeredness and self-will are going to be killed and it is ready to fight tooth and nail to avoid that." Therefore, "Every story of conversion is the story of a blessed defeat."

"There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations--these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit--immortal horrors or everlasting splendors." (It's our choice which we would rather be.)

"All that we call human history—money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery—[is] the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy."

"When you reach the thing you were desiring, if it doesn't satisfy you, it was not what you were desiring."

"You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body."

Below is Romans 1:18-32 with notes following.

God's Wrath on >All< Unrighteousness

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things d deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Introduction to Romans

Rom. 1:18–3:20 God's Righteousness in His Wrath against Sinners. This next main section shows that God's wrath is being righteously revealed against all people, both Gentiles and Jews, since all have sinned and fall short of God's glory (3:23).

Rom. 1:18–32 The Unrighteousness of the Gentiles. God's wrath is righteously revealed because people suppress the truth about the one true God and turn to idolatry (vv. 18–23). The consequence of idolatry is the moral disintegration of human society (vv. 24–32).

Rom. 1:18 The wrath of God refers to his personal anger against sin. God's anger is not selfish or arbitrary but represents his holy and loving response to human wickedness. Some have understood God's wrath in impersonal cause-effect terms, but this betrays a deistic worldview rather than a biblical one.

Rom. 1:19–20 God's wrath is expressed for good reason since his power and divine nature are clearly revealed through the world he has made, and yet he is rejected by all people. These verses show that salvation does not come through “general revelation” (what is known about God through the natural world) since Paul emphasizes the universality of sin and concludes that “no one seeks for God” (3:11). things that have been made. The entire natural world bears witness to God through its beauty, complexity, design, and usefulness. without excuse. No one should complain that God has left insufficient evidence of his existence and character; the fault is with those who reject the evidence. « Less

Rom. 1:19–20 God's wrath is expressed for good reason since his power and divine nature are clearly revealed through the world he has made, and yet he is rejected by all people. These verses show that salvation does not come through “general revelation” (what is known about God through the natural world) since Paul emphasizes the universality of sin and concludes that “no one seeks More »

Rom. 1:21 The root sin is the failure to value God above all things, so that he is not honored and praised as he should be. Human beings are foolish, not in the sense that they are intellectually deficient but in their rejection of God's lordship over their lives. They knew God not in a saving sense, but they knew of his existence and his attributes.

Rom. 1:22 Even brilliant people who do not honor God miss the whole purpose of life and are therefore fools (cf. Prov. 1:7, 22; 10:1; 12:15; 14:7; 17:25; 20:3).

Rom. 1:23 Idolatry is the fundamental sin. images. In addition to the images housed in great temples, Roman families commonly kept representations of individual “house gods” in their homes (examples found at Pompeii are particularly striking). Mediterranean and Near Eastern pagan religion worshiped idols in the form of beasts, or in the likeness of mixed beast/human deities such as the ancient gods of Egypt. Modern “idols” don't look like ancient ones; images served today are often mental rather than metal. But people still devote their lives to, and trust in, many things other than God. « Less

Rom. 1:23 Idolatry is the fundamental sin. images. In addition to the images housed in great temples, Roman families commonly kept representations of individual “house gods” in their homes (examples found at Pompeii are particularly striking). Mediterranean and Near Eastern pagan religion worshiped idols in the form of beasts, or in the likeness of mixed beast/human deities such as More »

Rom. 1:24 Three times Paul says God gave them up (vv. 24, 26, 28). In every instance the giving up to sin is a result of idolatry, the refusal to make God the center and circumference of all existence, so that in practice the creature is exalted over the Creator. Hence, all individual sins are a consequence of the failure to prize and praise God as the giver of every good thing.

Rom. 1:25 exchanged the truth about God for a lie. Paul implies that all other religions are based on false ideas about the one true God; they are not just “different paths to one God,” as some claim.

Rom. 1:26–27 Not only homosexual acts but also such passions or desires are said to be dishonorable before God. Just as idolatry is unnatural (contrary to what God intended when he made human beings), so too homosexuality is contrary to nature in that it does not represent what God intended when he made men and women with physical bodies that have a “natural” way of interacting with each other and “natural” desires for each other. Paul follows the OT and Jewish tradition in seeing all homosexual relationships as sinful. The creation account in Genesis 1–2 reveals the divine paradigm for human beings, indicating that God's will is for man and woman to be joined in marriage. Consumed (or “inflamed”) gives a strong image of a powerful but destructive inward desire. The sin in view is not pederasty (homosexual conduct of men with boys) but men engaging in sin with men. There is no justification here for the view that Paul condemns only abusive homosexual relationships. Due penalty could refer to the sin of homosexuality itself as the penalty for idolatry. Or, the “and” in and receiving may indicate some additional negative consequences received in themselves, that is, some form of spiritual, emotional, or physical blight. The “due” penalty refers to a penalty that is appropriate to the wrong committed. « Less

Rom. 1:26–27 Not only homosexual acts but also such passions or desires are said to be dishonorable before God. Just as idolatry is unnatural (contrary to what God intended when he made human beings), so too homosexuality is contrary to nature in that it does not represent what God intended when he made men and women with physical bodies that have a “natural” way of interacting with More »

Rom. 1:28–31 Human sin is not confined to sexual sins, and Paul now lists a whole catalog of the evils common among human beings as a result of turning from God.

Rom. 1:32 People do not generally sin in innocent ignorance, for they know God's decree (at least in an instinctive way) that their evil deserves condemnation. Indeed, the evil goes further when people give approval and applaud others for their sin, probably because having others join in their sin makes them feel better about the evil course they have chosen.

Elizabethann I said I was ashamed of the hateful postings from christians and that made me ashamed to be christian.....I made my mind up when still in grade school ...that if every word of the bible is to be taken literally...it is a huge mess of contradictions...but if read like a history book with the understanding each teller of histroy see thing differently...people have watched the same movie ...come to report what they have seen much differently..I didn't say Don't believe in the bible but you took... that to be true from what I wrote....so you have made my point for me...Just because i don't take every word of the literally...makes me no less christian than you...

If you are a Christian, never be ashamed because of it! It is certainly frustrating when professing Christians act or say something out of an impure motive, but that is between them and God.

2 Timothy 1:12

But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me.

2 Timothy 2:15

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling* the word of truth.

*- The word of truth can't be rightly handled by picking and choosing which parts one wishes to accept and believe in.

Mark 8:38 (Christ speaking)

For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

The way you wrote what you did searoses did sound like you believed the Bible was just stories and Fables...If that was not what you meant then I'm the one who misunderstood.

We all bring who we are when we read scripture. The people of the New Testament were all of different character. Luke a doctor, Mathew the tax collector, Peter the fisherman on and on...that's what's so great about the New Testament. It's Holy Spirit inspired. It's the lving word. When we read it we can apply it in our lives today. None of these guys were perfect. There's hope for me.

Frankly...I like to read the Old Testament. My friends laugh at me because I love the men of the Old Testament. These guys fought for their countries, families, wives...King David had an affair with the lady next door and then David sent her husband off to battle hoping he would be killed. I guess it was to ease his conscience. The same David that had enough faith to bring down Goliath with a sling shot. Despite his sin he was still a good man. David was a contradiction. But God loved that man. We are full of contradictions. It's called as Saint Paul says, "the thorn in our sides". We all have our own contradictions but God is who He is. He does not waver. He is LOVE , He is MERCY. Not the verb...the noun...The Alpha the Omega...

Searoses...just reread your post...I misread it. I flew over the word "most". Sorry about that. I took out of context. I read the rest of the posts and then posted. Sorry about that. Lesson learned...:(

So if gays can get married because they love each other--does that mean that they won't ever get divorced?? Or is it just heterosexuals that get divorced? homosexuals are fighting for the right to be "married" to the one they love. They will never ever get divorced if they get that right just because they are gay? Alot of people put in stats of the divorce rates, but who's to say that if the gays get this right that they won't ever end in divorce and re marry someone else. Also...marriage IS defined as a union between a man & woman not just in the bible but also on the law books. A civil union is similar but not considered the same as a marriage but gives the same rights as far as benefits. Also?? Who would be the wife or husband...or would it be take this wife to be your wife...or take this man to be your man..................if this law is changed to how they want it...there will be divorce stats going up even from that. How do you know that some of these same sex couples aren't pushing for this just because its the "thing" to do and brings them alot of attention. Just my opinion is all (which I am still allowed to do at this time in America--but probably won't be able to do the way things are going).

I am disappointed by much of the discussion and name calling that has been going on in these discussion posts and I think that a few things need to be defined.

Heterosexual: A person who is born with an attraction the opposite sex.

Homosexual: A person who is born with an attraction to the same sex.

Bisexual: A person who is born with an attraction to both sexes. Bisexual individuals have a choice to be in either a heterosexual or homosexual relationship.

These are factors people are born with and are no more a choice than what color eyes they will have or the shape of their face. Someone who is homosexual is not attracted to the opposite sex any more than a heterosexual is attracted to the same sex. To state that something like this could be a "choice" is a gigantic mistruth. With the severe ridicule and oppression most homosexuals have to deal with don't you think they sometimes wish that they weren't attracted to the same sex because the hatred and ignorance makes life so stressful at times? If it were a choice do you think we would even be discussing this?

There are many bisexuals who chose a heterosexual lifestyle because they wish to avoid persecution, and thus will be seen as "straight" by society even though they aren't. A bisexual is afforded this luxury, the homosexual and heterosexual are not.

I think too much stress is put on the "sexual" in these terms.... Sure, in the raw sense of a definition we are talking sexual attraction, but with that comes the capability for the love that relationships are made of, and that is the love that makes marriage important to heterosexuals, bisexuals and homosexuals.

I believe that homosexuals can make excellent parents because it is ALWAYS a choice to be a parent. There are no accidental pregnancies (barring rare and extreme cases such as rape). There is a significant up front financial cost to adoption and surrogate birthing. With adoption there has to be proof that the adopting parents can provide for the child financially and emotionally, the adoption process is not one where just anyone can pick up a baby if they want one.

Society needs to start to realize that much of the demonizing of sexuality that is unable to produce children has it's roots in a time period where adding to the population was crucial due to large chunks of the population dying in wars or from sickness. This is not the case anymore. We have a population which is threatening to become larger than the earth can sustain in the future. We have an abundance of children with no place to call home who would find excellent homes with homosexual families.

-Bob

The divorce rate of hetereosexuals has been stated alot on here, but what I am wondering is that just because you are gay and would have the right to get married--would that make you exempt from divorcing because you "love" each other & are gay? Who's to say a new statistic of divorces don't crop up. How do you honestly know that homosexuals are in love for LIFE and won't ever get divorced to remarry another partner they find? Are gays proclaiming and fighting for this "right" for attention?? Will it be "will you take this wife to be your wife? or this man to be your man? " I'm just stating my opinion as it is still free to speak it at this time and may not be months from now from how things are going. I personally don't believe in it and feel it is flaunted way too much for attention more than anything else. I guess I'm also a bigot for dissagreeing with this. Anytime someone goes against homosexual's rights, or rights of a minority, they are a bigot, wrong, and everything else other than right. WHERE"S MY RIGHTS AND OTHERS RIGHTS THAT DON'T BELIEVE OR WANT THIS???? Oh I forgot...we're the wrong ones......................(freedom of speech is still free this month)

joyjessun:

That shows how really ignorant you are saying that you would kill your son because he was gay and concider it a mercy killing.

I guess being into your religon makes that ok?

NOT! you are pathetic, your no way into your religon or you wouldn't have said that; your a poor excuse for a human being and useless to this planet.

MainelyMe2,

No one is saying you don't have the right to express your feelings and I am not calling you a bigot because of you words. Say what you want, believe what you want, but keep it out of the laws of this country. If this countries laws are supposed to go off of religion, let's make blood transfusions illegal to appease Jehovah's witnesses or make it illegal to draw a picture of a prophet or let's just go back to when it was illegal to teach evolution in school. I've heard a lot of talk about slippery slopes, well my friends, that is what we are on with religion trying to influence laws. Freedom of religion means that Christianity is not the only religion to operate in this country and once they get theirs, everyone else will want their own. Be careful.

JoyJessun,

I don't like to call names or insult other peoples beliefs so all I will say is that I believe you are dangerously ignorant and will no longer be reading your posts and I recommend everyone else do the same.

The bible is a book written by men. To put your faith in it and claim it's from god is like following Charles Manson: completely insane. Using that insanity to bash people based on what they do in their bedroom is even more insane.

JoyJessun,

Seek help dude: you're seriously ill.

MainelyMe2

You have the right to mind your own business!

MAINELYME

who's business is it anyways if a man wants to marry a man or a woman wants to marry a woman?? that is what I would like to know.

JoyJessun:

That post was the most disrespectful, ignorant comment I have read on here to date. To compare homosexuals to sexual predators just shows that you have no knowledge on the subject. To say that you would kill your son if he was a gay man is lower than I had hope most Mainers would go. Shame on you. A mothers love is unconditional, and I pity your son. Should he ever have to make a hard decision, or enter into any circumstance that isn't "tradistional" or "pure" it sounds to me that he will not have the support of his mother. You say that you want to live in a spiritually pure society? Well, I believe that there are some of us who would like to live in a society free of hate, discrimination, stereotypes, and people who look down on and are afraid of things that they obviously do not understand.

Enough is enough. Quit wasting the legislature's time! With Maine's economy the way it is, there are more important things to deal with than the sobbing of the minority. Like it or not, when the majority says "No", that is it in a democracy. Quit trying to force this issue on us.

Marriage is between a man and a woman. Poor kids growing up in an environment like this. Hi, this is my dad and my dad, or this is my mom and my mom.

If the homosexual's don't like it-MOVE! Go somewhere where gay marriage is accepted.

Gay people split up too. When they do, are there going to be special considerations? Heterosexual's get put through the ringer. I bet that will be considered "Gay Harassment" if a homosexual gets slammed during a divorce...................................................

Joy search your heart. I don't know what else to say. Except this...as Christians we can never think thoughts like this...let alone even say them. All I know God wants us to love unconditionally. If we profess we know Him, He will teach us to love unconditionally. Sometimes He will put us through the test to let us know our capacity to love. Sometimes the things we hate the most He will use to test us.

I would not want any of my children to live the homosexual lifestyle. But I would still love them unconditionally. It doesn't mean we have to be silent but there are extremes. God bless

elaine: if you can get your pussy to consent to marry you, go for it!

elaine: if you can get your pussy to consent to marry you, go for it!

How bout we just up the effort to kill all those we feel have a disgusting lifestyle? Will all of you who are opposed to homosexuallity be willing to pull the trigger and put them out of their misery? God will still accept them in heaven, right? He will forgive them right? So, put your muscle behind your hatred......start with your own family, then your friends, then your community......Then, when all the gays are dead, you can feel righteous. A gun not your style? OK, then, stab them, throw them off a bridge, drown them.......does this sound good to you? You know you're just oooozing with excitment at the thought of killing a disgusting gay person, huh? And to think, you'll be doing god's work, and you'll probably be a celebrity.

paragriff:

How are you so sure that it will not pass?

The homosexuals are growing in numbers, and eventually,mark my word, it will pass.

As far as your comment about the kids saying this is my dad and my other dad or this is my mom and my other mom, you are truly ignorant, whether a child has 2 males,or females for parents or a man and woman,what differance does it make as long as the children are cared for and brought up to be upstanding people of society? Homosexuals are here to stay and if you don't like it you move, but i can tell you where ever you move there are going to be homosexuals, so go cry to sombody that wants to listen to it.

JoyJessun: we all feel bad for you cause we know your daddy is your brother and your son is your nephew. We know the only reason you don't want gay people to marry is because you are jealous that you won't get the sexual attention you desire from your male family members, afraid of a little competition?

I bet there are some interesting comments here but the same closedminded people keep repeating the same comments over and over in different words and it gets to the point you don't even want to read anymore. Why don't you go find a private board to vent and pat each other on the backs in. Since it's a weekday, I'm sure there is an empty church that you can get together in to preach your scriptures. What I learned in church was to love, tolerate and help my neighbor, not to judge and degrade them because of their life choices. If a person is not hurting themselves or someone else, them leave them alone and let them live their lives equally to everyone else. Remember, the Bible was written by man.

And Avidreader, I wish I could find a straight man like you. But if you're single I know a few good gay men that would love to find a guy like you lol

First, as a side note, a quick look at the worlds major religions shows that Christianity is not the only one which knows that marriage is created to be between a man and a woman. In fact none of the world's 5 major religions endorses same-sex relationships; those being Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism.

The reason this topic strikes a nerve in people, either for or against, is because it hits much deeper than the issue itself. It calls into play questions and ideas of greater significance...what you believe and how that effects your thoughts, actions and outlook. My main point here is that these sorts of issues become a matter of the heart. People can make excuses for not believing in God or the Bible because to them it doesn't make sense to them logically, but most often underneath the facade of doubt it's the heart of a person that becomes their barrier to believe. We want to remain in control of our own lives and resent the notion of a higher authority coming along and, from this perspective, usurping the throne we each hold dear to. I speak from experience because it is not a light decision to 'give in' and admit that God is God and I'm not. Indeed it could be the most agonizing decision one will every wrestle with because the ramifications are eternally immense. We are all souls who each have a body, not the other way around and certainly not exclusively a body. So any issue that pricks our conscious, such as this one, serves as a reminder that we face far greater choices in life than which career to pursue, where to live, and what car to buy etc. To spend life apart from the God who made you and died to save you is The definition of epic failure. To then die still separated from the one who loves you most, having never accepted this gift of life, is to never really live in the first place.

Again I refer to C.S. Lewis when he said: "The natural life in each of us is something self-centered, something that wants to be petted and admired, to take advantage of other lives, to exploit the whole universe. It knows that if the spiritual life gets hold of it, all its self-centeredness and self-will are going to be killed and it is ready to fight tooth and nail to avoid that." Therefore, "Every story of conversion is the story of a blessed defeat."

I recommend the following books to anyone who wrestles with doubts about Christianity's truthfulness...if fact I would challenge you to put aside what you think you know and dig deeper to get the real facts. Get a copy of The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, and the Case for a Creator, each by Lee Strobel, and use these books as an informative starting point as he, a former atheist and investigative reporter, chronicles his own search for the facts on a wide array of foundational topics. Don't rely on TV, movies or preconceived notions, just search for yourself. Get a good study Bible such as the ESV, NASB, or NIV translations, sit down an read what God has to say to you As it is written in Isaiah 55:11 God said "so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." And for those interested in reading about how our country has gotten its current moral condition check out The Marketing of Evil by David Kupelian.

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried."

"The whole truth is generally the ally of virtue; a half-truth is always the ally of some vice."

"Most modern freedom is at root fear. It is not so much that we are too bold to endure rules; it is rather that we are too timid to endure responsibilities."

---G.K. Chesterton

fearless: JoyJessun is screwing her son, c'mon.

BrianPatrick

You must be pretty dense, because you still don't get it.

This is a matter of civil law, not fanatical ramblings like you keep tossing out.

Keep your god in church. It is neither the basis for, nor has any say in, matters of civil law.

In fact, all you preachy types: please get it through your heads: your religion is NOT the basis for our laws.

Not now, not 200 years ago, not 200 years from now (unless the muslims succeed in taking over the world).

Tedlick you can't keep God in church. Some people would want that but it doesn't happen that way. If you would only know. If God could be kept in church I suppose some would say then that is His territory and He has no authority outside the church. That would be very convienent for us as sinners. It would mean we don't have to answer for anything. True free for all. Total chaos. Which is what we are experiencing in the world today. There would be no forgiveness, no love, no redemption. I am really beginning to believe people have a lack of trust and God's mercy and love. God forgives everything. All we have to do is ask.

Brian, those are all excellent reads. Do you know of any good christian chat rooms? God bless you and yours...

To all who believe religion is a reason to prevent gay marriage...(and once again, I ask someone to give me a reason not related to religion)

Do you think that religions other than christianity should be the basis for laws?

If the answer is no, why not.

Times are changing and what is sad is that when 2 people love each other and want to take the commitment, who are we to tell them they can't because they are of the same sex and are not (MAN AND WOMAN). Some people still can't get over the same sex partners. Are they hurting you? No they are just like the rest of us in love and want to show it. I have relatives that are gay and they are happy with who they are and why should I judge them. I am married to the opposite sex and to me, life is too short to sit here a fight over the "gays should not marry". Let them marry, they are not hurting you are they?

Elizabethann,

No, I do not know any good chat rooms but I attend church regularly and spend quite a bit of time thinking on the subject. My belief in God and Jesus are, in my opinion, as firm as anyone's, I just believe that the seperation of church and state exist for a reason. Due to my own imperfections, of which there are many (just ask my fiance), mean to me that I am not someone who should judge or take others to task if their beliefs don't coincide with mine.

And thank you. God bless you and yours as well.

Sexually transmitted diseases for one.

If you have multiple partners, whether in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship, chances of certain types of cancer increase.

The pill causes an increase breast cancer.

Abortion greatly increases the chances of breast cancer.

Young girls are purposely given low doses of birth control pills so that they are more likely to become pregnant so that they will seek out abortions. These pills have to be taken at the same time everyday to make the pill effective. One day without the pill will increase the chances of getting pregnant. They are betting on the fact that young girls are irresposible and end up having an abortion. Feed the abortion industry. Planned parenthood.

If gay marriages are encouraged, at what point will they demand cloning. And which slippery slope does that take us.

Encouraging or legalizing gay marriages has no benefit to society so it should not be legalized.

Chimera wrote:

"I am disappointed by much of the discussion and name calling that has been going on in these discussion posts and I think that a few things need to be defined.

Heterosexual: A person who is born with an attraction the opposite sex.

Homosexual: A person who is born with an attraction to the same sex.

Bisexual: A person who is born with an attraction to both sexes. Bisexual individuals have a choice to be in either a heterosexual or homosexual relationship."

Thanks for clarifying this, Chimera. Do you know how I might be able to become bi-sexual? I'm getting pretty discouraged being a heterosexual, and maybe I need to try some other angles, so to speak. I don't think I'm quite ready for the full-blown homo route yet - bi seems a more reasonable intermediate step, at least for now. Thank you for your suggestions!

Dictionary.com says society is a highly structured system of human organization for large-scale community living that normally furnishes protection, continuity, security, and a national identity for its members:

So unless homosexuals are not of member of the American society they should be allowed to have all of those things including the laws that protect married couples as well as the identity marriage provides them.

I do not see how legalizing gay marriage would encourage cloning. If you could explain I would appreciate it.

You speak of abortion and the pill but those do not have much, if anything, to do with a homosexual relationship. I would think that homosexuals would use the pill less than heterosexuals and get fewer abortions.

Youung girls are being given lower doses of the pill because it can lower some of the risks associated with the pill and it is also used for regulating intense periods to reduce pain.

Ok, i'm not exactly sure where to start with Elizabethann's last comment. But I really think she just made EVERYTHING in the comment up. Pretending its storytime, maybe?? The Pill does NOT increase your odds of getting cancer. Neither do abortions. Only closed-minded, uneducated people actually believe that. (Uneducated on the subject, not in general.) They do NOT prescribe teenage girls the wrong birth control to increase their chances of getting pregnant and up the abortion "industry". And i'm not exactly sure what was meant by "abortion industry" either. Second of all, what the heck does that have to do with gay marriage??? And there is a risk of sexually transmitted disease with ANYONE who is sexually active. Not just homosexuals, or teenage girls. That entire comment was babble. It made no sense. Sounds like someone is running out of arguements, and throwing out whatever you want to, and making stuff up, trying to sound smart. It backfired. Big time.

Elizabethann,

Do you have a source for this paranoid delusion - "Young girls are purposely given low doses of birth control pills so that they are more likely to become pregnant so that they will seek out abortions."

Cloning has nothing to do with gay marriage except perhaps in the deranged mind of James Dobson. All industrialized countries have laws prohibiting human cloning and no civil rights groups advocate for human cloning.

Legalizing has significant benefits to society. It will benefit children through placing them in loving strong families in which their emotional and social development will be engouraged and their will be protected. Secondly, it will end irrational, biased, discrimination against people who are totally innocent. This nation is stronger when all our people feel a part of our country and respected for who they are.

Elizabethann,

US law is not based in christianity. You may wish it to be so, but it is not. Not now, not ever.

None of the items you point out have any bearing on gay marriage. It will have plenty of benefit. Not ONE item you point shows where homosexual marriage will have negative effects on society, as they all either apply to heterosexuals as much as homosexuals, or they have nothing to do with either. Homosexuals are treated unequally in our society, and the time has come to stop it.

And yes: feed the abortion industry and Planned Parenthood before we screw our way to the end of the modern world as we know it.

I would like to say that I did some looking and there is indeed a school of thought that believes that the pill increases risk of breast and cervical cancer but that the risk goes away almost immediately after the pill has been discontinued. Also it is believed that the pill actually protects against ovarian cancer and that effect lasts up to 20 and 30 years.

You know, these people who are against gay marriage are right about one thing: It won't do anything to benefit them. The part they don't get is that its not ABOUT them. If you aren't gay WHY do you care? Let the people who this will actually affect decide. It won't benefit you, but it won't hurt you either.

BrianPatrick,

Its your opinion that truth is not an opinoin. Now you are free to believe any delusion you want as long has you do no harm to anyone else. Opposing equal secular rights for all people is a wound to the heart of any society and as such can not be tolerated. It weaks the society by pitting one group agianst another, causes violence, civil unrest, social breakdown, or a forced life as a secondf-class citizen. Second-class citizenship is unconstitutional to begin with but it is destructive to a society because the second-class citizen is denied the opportunity to contribute all that they can to the improvement of society.

No meaningful differneces exist between gay and straights. The engage in the same sexual practices. They behave in the same ways. They are similiarly motivated. No rational justification exists to treat gays any differently than straights. If the bible says there is then you know that the bible is false.

fearless,

WHY do they care?

Ignorance... superstitious belief structures... lack of real world experiences... false confidence bestowed by corrupt religious views.

There are no logical reasons for people to react in such a fashion: no use of reasoning whatsoever. It's all emotion and fear... fear of something they don't understand and emotion dredged up by the religious nonsense they wrap themselves in. Religion means they don't have to think, they don't have to reach beyond their holy book. That gives them certainty, a sense of confidence in their wrongness. Logic and reason are enemies to them, and their religion actively preaches that.

Take heart in that one day, we may actually live in a world of reason, free of the hatred, bigotry, lunacy, and stupidity bread by modern religions.

At least I hope we do.

Any way Brian Patrick,

The bible tells you that God created homosexuals in his own image. After all there was only Adam and Eve and from them came all of humanity (except all those wifes that appear suddenly without explanation). Transvesites (both homosexual, bisexual, and homosexual) and all variations of sexual identity came from God's creation. So you better treat them right.

David889327,

I have a suggestion - be born bi-sexual.

By the way these are not stations of the cross where you can stand and say here I am. As we know all hetersosexual women are not attrated to all hetersosexual men. Some like tall men or men with particular facial features or strong butts. Heterosexual men are attacted to a wide variety of female features. So don't we need a blonde haired, big busted small brained heterosexual subclass to male heterosexuals. How about a smooth, small necked class to heterosexual Japanese males. You know the classification of people into heterosexual and homosexual doesn't add very much to our knowledge. Doesn't help us make decisions. Fact is its just as stupid as talking about blacks and whites.

Chemaine is a BIGOT! That simple. Oh yeah, I also am a BIGOT and for some of the things I hold dear to my heart, I am ok with that title! The part that humors me is those who preach that I have to be tolerant of Gay Marriage, Gay indoctrination in our Public Schools, God Bashers, and anything else that violates MY moral code and personal values are actually the ones who continue to promulgate INTOLERANCE and HATRED!

So am I a BIGOT: (as defined: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views), yes I am, a Hater, sometimes, but I usually get right over it. A liar, nope, It's called INTEGRITY so as we fling dung around here lets all have some and quit being Jerks!

As far as gay marriage. . . . . Can't support it because it is not right in my personal code of ethics! Civil Unions have at it! If you are looking for equality then there it is. . . . . . the Homosexual Race (because that is now what is trying to be pushed) should be afforded the same rights as the straight folks when it comes to taxes, financial lending, divorce, medical insurance....etc, etc. We will then have to figure out where it ends though! Does now my Roommate that I do not have sexual relations with covered by these things. . . after all that woiuld be a partnership as well and should be allowed It's all just silly. There are those who say that there is no chance in Maine for this to go through because of all the BIGOTS. Maybe, but the reallity is vote mongering politicians will pander to the minority anyday before doing what is right or the bidding of the majority. (Last I checked a majority rules, unless you live in Mexifornia, or . . . . Maine for that matter!) So, don't discount anything. If you don't agree with it stand up and be heard to those it matters to (politicians), if you are a proponent of it, stand up and be heard to those who matter (politicians) instead of calling names (like I did, I have already written my letters ) on a newspaper post!

Just some thoughts from a fellow BIGOT that don't really matter!

I am a BIGOT and I approve this message!

Cynical: Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion 2.One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. 3.a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own 4.A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

you wanna run around broadcasting that you have those characteristics, all the power to ya. Thankfully some of us know how to think with an open mind.

This forum is sex-crazed.

For those who want to know about the pill, abortion and link to breast cancer. Just do a search you will find the info.

There is a web page about the link to abortion and breast cancer at www.WORLDVIEWTUBE.com I tried to get to it but couldn't. Computer is acting up again. Just look for "Former Abortion Doctor who killed 75,000 babies it will take you there. I had seen a former female doctor who performed abortions in Texas. She was talking about what the low estrogen pill does and how it leads to abortion and how they purposely target teenagers. It's time this country takes it's head out of the sand. Enough of the lies. At least if they would give us the correct information and assume we'll have the brains to make the right decisions.

cynical,

No one is asking you to like homosexuals: hate them all you wish.

The issue is that it is fundamentally wrong for the government to treat people of any given group differently than another.

Also, and I'll restate this as many times as necessary: civil unions are NOT recognized by the federal government (or most state governments).

You want the word "marriage" to be a heterosexual related word only, petition your government to rewrite existing law to include civil unions.

David...I won't even try to define "sex" according to Webster here although that might prove to be quite enlightening...however, "Crazed" means "insane or to make insane"....are saying we who are posting here are a bunch of lunatics??

CYNICAL--alot more people agree with you than they care to admit. Also agree that we're supposed to be tolerant of things against our moral code and personal values-yet when we speak up we're the "bad guys". It's ok to shove things we don't believe in morally down our throats, but speaking out makes us the BIGOTS & bad person who needs to get with the times. Whatever. By the way..Mexifornia is also called Calico or Calixico. it didn't pass out there, so probably won't in Maine neithor.

It's all tied in together...marriage, relationships, family, children, sex, birth control.....it's all about respect for life...the culture of life.....up lifting life...respect for each other...

PabMainer, would obsessed be more palatable? I suppose though, that this is a good vehicle for spirited discussions. It's just, on this issue, I'm getting maxed out - I'm not gay, but my moral code doesn't prevent me from accepting gays, gay marriage, etc. Maybe it's time for all the forum proponents to transfer their energies on Augusta where the decision will be made ultimately - they've fully publicized and made their case on this forum.

Obsessed, crazed, lunatics, etc. I think we all resemble these at various times in life. Good comment in regards to putting a little more energy into Augusta, but this at times in the past this seemed to be a waste of time for me...anyhow, if we all went to Augusta to voice our concerns we could stop at the Donut Shop on the way!

Elizabethann

Back to the pill real quick. I understand there was a doctor that said that, my only concern is that I could probably find a doctor to tell me that smoking is good for me. I have a tough time believing something when I can only find one person who says it (I am told quite often that I am cynical), especially when I see numerous other things that speak well of it.

I understand that things are connected, but if someone is going to use an arguement, they, in my opinion, had better be able to back it up. I just don't understand when the pill and abortion and cloning, especially cloning, has to do with gay marriage.

JonAlbrecht,

You have mentioned a Brian Patrick a few times and the only Brian on here I see is me so I was just wondering if you were talking to me (even though there is no Patrick in my name, screen or real?

tedlick,

I must assure of a few things; I am not dense in the least, nor am I inferring that and I do 'get it'. I see that you have read my posts in some measure, thank you for taking the time. I'm not going to spend time repeating what I have already written because I think it speaks for itself. It sounds like your issue is with God than with me personally. The tone of your post seems to reveal an inner hostility towards spiritual matters. As for me, I'm just a believer and follower of Christ who used to rebel against and resent the God that never gave up on me and I myself have no power whatsoever to change minds, or more importantly, change hearts. So let me ask you about 'our' laws since you mentioned it. What exactly is the basis of our laws? In other words, how have we (all people) come to determine what things to consider wrong or right? By the way, what is your worldview? Look forward to hearing your answers.

JonAlbrecht,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your post. In your opening sentence you wrote, " BrianPatrick, Its your opinion that truth is not an opinion." So I would like to ask you, is it true that it's merely my opinion that truth is not an opinion? What you basically said was that truth is an opinion...so is that true? It's a self-defeating argument.

Let me share some things with you. First, truth is discovered as I just said, not invented and this is because it exists independent from human knowledge. An example would be the laws of physics such as gravity...gravity existed prior to Newton. Second, truth transcends cultures...2+2 always equals 4 no matter who you are. Truth is unchanging even when beliefs about truth change...people used to believe that the Earth was flat, when in fact it has always been round. Beliefs can't change facts. Attitudes can't change truth either...a humble, sincere person doesn't make the error he/she professes true, nor does a boastful person make the truth he/she professes false. We can believe everything is true or false or whatever we want, but that doesn't make is so. Not to mention we demand truth in our daily lives from loved ones (we don't want to be lied to), our doctors (we want the right treatments), our courts (we want the guilty convicted), our employers (we don't want to be misled or paid unfairly) and so on.

So now that we have reestablished that truth does still exist after all...can truth be known? After all, it wouldn't matter whether there is trutht if we can't know it. If one says that you can't know what's truthful....how can one know that that statement is true? This is another self defeating statement, because truth is knowable.

So to wrap this back into the main topic, there is a knowable truth about what marriage means and who comprises one. It is almost laughable since our very anatomy really says it all regarding the intentions of a man and a woman joining together, having sexual relations for both pleasure, out of mutual love, and to raise up our own families. The longstanding "boundaries" around the marriage relationship and intercourse are not discriminatory. I don't hear adulterous people marching together to redefine their behavior as being acceptable or crying out at the 'injustice' of not having their lifestyle given public, governmental approval. This is not a civil rights issue at all, regardless of how some try to portray it in such a way as do invoke sympathy from those who would otherwise not be duped. It is a case of trying to call something which is wrong, both right and equal and it is not a coincidence that this movement, among others, has only more recently been able to gain a foothold. Gay marriage and civil unions are not the big or the only societal problems, but it is a symptom of a larger ailment. Interestingly it seems that as the number of symptoms increase, so also the number of people who can't recognize them.

I'd like to recommend one other book which I forgot to include in a previous posting...I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norman L. Geisler and Frank Turek.

Twenty seven states have passed marriage protection amendments thus far. Simply say no to same sex marriage.

It is a labor of love and a great effort to raise our children in this world today. I am not glad at all that we as families of husband and wife will not have the strongest opportunity to vote against the entering into marriages for alternative lifestyles. This is an area that must be upheld by voting for what is right. It's OK for people to feel strongly against gay marriage. It's not fear, control, or meanness. We just believe that it's the correct allowable choice that is important to the moral fiber of our beliefs and voted upon unfavorably for same sex marriage. Sometimes not everyone can make the requirements, and we all live with the freedom of choices in this world. There are lines drawn for many types of circumstances that exist in our world. We vote.

The strength that I teach my children and show them everyday allows them to make good choices. In this world there are different reasons that dispose people to choose being gay such as genetic, appearance, or vulnurability. But I believe that will be seperate from the marriage and recognition in the voting society that holds these beliefs.....religion basis excluded from the belief I have on this issue. And I've heard it before. If everything is taught the way you see it in your house than outside influences shouldn't matter. That's obsurd. I hope to draw from the beliefs that are upheld in a good part of society and the daily leadings of such. I need that to draw from as a solid foundation as well. The first sentance is the extent I can go.....But I know it will be pushed until my household has no standing on this issue, without end.

BrianPatrick,

The big thing that I have to say is about your statement "since our very anatomy really says it all regarding the intentions of a man and a woman joining together, having sexual relations for both pleasure, out of mutual love, and to raise up our own families"

If you take out the part about anatomies (even though you could leave that in since two men's anatomies do indeed fit together, but I understand your intention) you have described what many homosexual men and women want. They can join together for both pleasure and love and they can raise families, whether through adoption or artificial insimination or whatever.

Also, and I'm not sure about this, but I've never heard of someone being denied the right to have an affair. While it may not be acceptable, it is not against the law so your arguement comparing gay marriage to adultery does not make sense to me.

To all,

I once again want to state that I see nothing wrong with saying what you believe. I won't condemn or belittle a person for saying "I think what you are doing is wrong" to someone. That is your opinion (whether it is bigoted or not I don't know and won't make a judgement on that. Also, before everyone gets in an uproar, everyone has prejudices, myself included, although I try my best not to). What I feel is unacceptable is trying to force your opinion onto others by law. That is wrong. If you think that homosexuality is wrong, by all means, speak up. Tell people what you thing. Sing it from the rooftops. That is your right. I think that most people who aren't neanderthalls would even be willing to have an intelligent debate about the subject (I'm the type of guy that will invite Mormons on their sabatical into my house for a glass of water on a hot day). The thing is though, we need to keep religion out of the laws of this country. This won't lead to the destruction of this country. It won't cause people to spontaneously become gay just like desegregation of schools didn't make people spontaneously become black. It did however help to reduce the amount of prejudice and make this country a more accepting and tolerant place and therefore a more beautiful country and I think that if gay marriage is legalized it will help to do the same thing.

I know people are going to have issue with me comparing desegregation to gay marriage, but plain and simple both are a form of prejudice. I'm sure if they had the internet and forums like this back in that time you would be able to see many parallels in the conversations that took place. If you like, just switch desegregation to interracial marriages, which were illegal until the 60's in some portions of this country.

I am seeing the voice and logics against a religious arguement rather than social psychology and the influences for in regard to choice and beliefs. Are we really so deadened and immune to an ethic, an upbringing that nurtures the harmony within a male and female marriage and children. Can there be any special recognition within the foudation of the union founded in marriage. Do people value that as a society? Am I supposed to say and vote everything is alright. Why not be happy and have more husbands , wives , multiple partners that we take in as a marriage. If we all love each other and it doesn't work out, by law let's work that out with benefits, liability, alimony, custody as well. Make everything OK It can never stop. There has to be a website advocate for group marriage. Where can a society draw a line on an ethic. It's convenient to argue a stong religious believer, isn't it.Let's say law meets marriage...Vote your household and what you believe important in your home and the world you can make of it on this issue. This is your chance..

SharonFaith:

JonAlbrecht wrote:

Sharon if you and Jon want to preach to sombody ,go to church and do it this is a comment section not bible study.

We don't live out of the bible ,we don't have to because we know that as long as we treat everybody with the respect and love that make the world a better place ,even if it is 2 me, 2 woman, or man and woman. So stop preaching and live the way that makes you happy, you only live once. You don't get another chance.

Why in the hell do you think that religon has anything to do with the subject of same sex marrage? It is by your own religous beliefs that your against it, not because it is what you believe. If people look to the bible to to let them know what is right and wrong than you people have a serious problem. Some of you referr to homosexuals as devient, wierdos,pedifiles,child molesters,sick and duranged. Well if you all have to turn to the bible to let you know what is right and wrong then you also need serious help. Peace and harmony is what god would want ,instead you rightous religous holyer than thou are the ones in need of help.

Sharon:

If you do not know right from wrong and have to go to the bible to tell you ,then seek professional help.

When humans are raised from infantile to being an adult they are taught things throughout their up bringing ( Right & Wrong) I'm sure that you have your own mind of what is right and wrong. How do you know that everything in the bible is 100% true? Most people go to the bible and church for comfort,and to ease the the mind. Sounds to me as though and a few others on here are a cult,and anything that the bible says is all truth and nothing but the truth. My feeling on life and same sex marriage is that if it feels good do it,if yiou want to try something you never have ,don't be chicken and do it, if you love the same sex might as well try it ,you only live once. being on earth is hell, being thrown difficult events,tasks,tradgedys,death. After you go,that is called heaven,because you don't have to worry about all the challenges life throws at you.

To get to heaven....you have to confess your sins. Some never confess, and some wait till their deathbed to do that. Can't get there by doing wrong. And hopefully there's no bills or freezing weather or snow to shovel up there in heaven......

I just have one quote for anyone reading this. It is from Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Yes, there is a seperation of church and state so the state should allow gay and lesbian couples the same rights but I believe "marriage" is a sacred union under GOD and it should stay that way. As for the Catholic priests. GOD made us all with free will and if we choose to sin against GOD, then I believe we will answer to him in judgement. I believe everyone should live their life as they see fit as long as they don't tell me how to live but that does not mean we all live the way GOD expects us to.

You all know this life style is wrong always has been always will be.So repent from this sin while you have time. Time will run out and the day will come when you have to answer to God.He will say depart from me and he will cast you into hell.For this is sin plain and simple.Do not push this life style on Maine .You will pay for ever for this sin will it be worth it .Think; go without it is better to live alone than to go to the pits of hell.

mousehunt are you saying we all are "damned" if we support this? I have seen everything now my life is complete.

Now your getting the idea.Love the people hate the sin.The gay lifestyle is wrong and everyone knows it is.So why would you pass this off as normal it is not.This life style is sick and twisted.What next the pet dog.Come on give me a break.

mousehunt

Give all of us a break and flake off!

Mainelyme

I guess I will be damned then. I stand behind the gay community. They should be able to get married.

This is wrong for Maine wrong for the United States wrong for the world. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Case closed.

mousehunt

Then you agree that it's right for the universe?

Mainelyme

NO wrong there also. Little green Man should be with a little green woman case closed.If it were the other way around they want to marry the cow that jumped over the moon.Get it mainelypee ha ha ha