Two power plants, Brooksville and Indeck, are alternative. One is hydro and one is bio mass. Because they were built before 2000 they do not get the tax incentives and special treatment like the wind farms. Yet they can produce energy 24/7. This is Maine law. Wind energy only produces when the wind blows. If it blows too hard...the turbines shut down.Fire hazard due to blade friction. The power cannot be stored and a significant amount is lost in transmission. So these 2 power plants do not have room on the transmission lines. There is presently no place for the Steton Mt. energy on the Maine griid if Brookfield and Indeck are on line. . No planning. Just greed . You can make money on the wind farms. The corporations, that is. Not the rate payer. Maine is self sufficient in power. Tourism and land values will plummet. For what? To send power to Mass. in the summer and Canada in the winter?Brookfield power has retained a lawyer. the town of Lincoln had to retain a lawyer. So now our legislature is working up a law so that the towns have no say as to whether they have a wind farm. Bribery of public officials is an allegation made against First Wind leading to the AG in NY investigating them. The only thing that makes sense in this debacle is some in high places have been bribed.

That is Brookfield power plant..sorry. There has been a fire in a ciucuit board in one of the turbines at Stetson Mt. already. Because fire is a possibility...the fire dept. got a $5,000.00 gift in Mars Hill after First Wind built a wind farm there. They did not give any money to the VOLUNTEER fire dept. near Stetson Mt. Why? Because they could get by with it. Maine is being sold to the highest bidder.

"post petroleum" ? Does the writer beleive we are out of the oil based energy era?

With respect to windpower in Maine, as with anything new and potentially profit making, there is always the possiblity of shady dealings.

There are degrees of shady. DEP and First Wind have made a stand that noise is not a problem around wind farms. First Wind has offered the 18 families around the wind farm in Mars HIll $2,000 a year for 40 years for the non problem. Maybe going to court has caused DEP and First Wind to see there might be a problem. Anyway....this isn't an oops situation. The state will be changed forever if this wind farm industry takes roots as Gov. Baldaci so earnestly and vigorously is working.

The State is already being changed forever by the pollution we produce to generate electricity by natural gas, primarily. You just don't see it. Look at the woods of Maine and the lakes, and see the level of contamination already present. More of the same is not what we need to leave our children. Wind energy is a viable solution - for now. When something better comes along, take the turbines down and replant the pads. no - wind energy does not permanently damage the land. Trees grow back, roads can be discontinued, etc. Forestry and farming have caused far greater impacts on permanent destruction than wind ever will. The editorial author hit the nail on the head - the last study I saw indicated that Maine ratepayer would save a collective $100 million per year in electricity cost - that is tangible money in our pockets - not the wind company, not the transmission company, and not someone from out of state.

As for noise in Mars Hill - go hear it for yourselves before you repeat "concerns" - more could have and should have been done to prevent the complaints, but the loudest opponents bear some responsibility as well.

I wonder if windfuture works for Firts Wind's PR agency.

And I wonder if Jaygee ever let a fact get in the way of good spin . . .

actually - I don't have to wonder.

windfuture, big numbers are bandied about quite freely when discussing energy costs or savings. I've been unable to come across a savings figure of $100 million. Would you be so kind as to provide a reference. Thanks!

Windfuture, please identify the "last study" you saw. 1200 turbines @ 2.5 MW = 3000 MW of installed capacity - the goal for 2020. According to German utility E. ON AG and NYSERDA studies land based wind projects provide a capacity contribution to the grid of about 10% of the installed capacity, so call it 300 MW. 300 MW is less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the 35,000 MW capacity of the ISO NE grid. Exactly how will this miniscule amount of useful production have any effect on natural gas consumption or pricing, or any effect on GHG emission? How do you value the destruction of Maine's sense of place in your cost benefit analysis of wind power?

That was a figure provided by ISO-NE to study the benefits of the MPC line, connecting northern Maine to the NE grid and allowing for import of Canadian power. It seems to be the most accurate estimate of the price depression that would be experienced by the increased supply from planned wind farms and importation. I agree that big numbers don't tell the full story.

The "last study" I saw was from ISO-NE itself - for approx. 1200 MW of wind power from Maine, as well as the potential importation of Canadian power that cannot get to the market with the current grid. It's not just wind power - it's all potential new sources that increased transmission would bring. The electric grid in general can support approx. 20% wind, meaning windpower could supply approx. 7,000 MW in NE-ISO territory. Net factors are generally 30-35%, which is why integration is such a hot topic right now. But, combining wind and hydro, as well as natural gas that is currently installed to fill in the gaps, isn't a bad mix. Remember, if you don;t build wind, you have to build something. Demand is not decreasing. Assuming the current models are correct - and all that is built are more natural gas plants, can we predict what the price of natural gas will be in 10 years? The inflation/speculation risk with gas is quite high. Whereas wind power is built and contracted at current prices - providing stability to the consumer.

Wind has its drawback as well - visual impact is the biggest. Noise can be controlled by not building windfarms near people. But, they are far from a permanent solution.

Why not hook up with the Canadian grid and use exisitng hydo for Maine's needs?

100% is the installed capacity- if the turbine turned at rated speed all the time.

30-35% is the capacity factor - the amount of electricity the turbine actually produces due to the vagaries of wind.

10% is the capacity credit - the amount of production that allows reserve capacity to be reduced which takes into account the output of turbines relative to the demand curve of the grid. They are in almost total opposition on an annual basis in New England.

1200 turbines spaced 1/4 mile apart on 300 miles of Maine ridges has a monetary impact on Maine's "sense of place" which the Brookings Institute study identified as Maine's most valuable resource. What dollar value to you put on the loss of Maine's sense of place?

The money being wasted on subsidies to wind power should be invested in conservation and insulation. And yes, demand is decreasing. In case you haven't noticed we are in a 25 trillion dollar world wide economic decline. Demand for everything is decreasing and it will be a long time before energy prices relative to GDP return to the speculative bubble levels of last summer.

I would dispute the capacity credit number being used. Especially in a grid with the lowest capacity reserve in the country. Availability of hydro and natural gas production creates the perfect combination of resources to maximize the potential use of the wind resource. As for the sense of place - I don't advocate building them everywhere. Just where they make the most economic sense for the developers, ratepayers, taxpayers, etc. We can have a wonderful sense of place, and wave goodbye as we move out because we can't afford to live in it anymore. I don't see a decline in visits where the wind farms have been built already. Ask the owners of the motels and restaurants how they are doing near the wind farms, even in a tight economy.

As for the worldwide economic decline, it was barely 8 months ago that we were all concerned about Chine and the emerging economies taking all of the oil and other resources to build their economies. Did their modernization suddenly get completed overnight?? Economic cycles happen - soon enough we'll be screaming again about high gas prices and all of our money going overseas.

As for subsidies, take nuclear subsidies at 3 times the rate of wind and funnel that somewhere else. Or, oil and gas at 10x . . . The only reason subsidies exist is to promote a public policy and encourage its eventuality.

As for importing power - in the short term, that's not a bad idea. In the long term, how about we import all of our cars, tv's, electronics, toys - oh, wait, we already do that, and we enjoy the resulting loss of jobs so much!! Next, let's import our food. Look at the land we could free up to have a nice sense of place. Maybe we could get rid of the corporate, industrial farms that grow our food and plant pretty flowers instead.

What else can we import - and what other jobs can we export???

In the PUC testimony to the Wind Power Task Force they state that capacity credit for wind is "much lower" than developers state. Google Wind Power Task Force.

I agree, get rid of subsidies and let the market decide the most economic source of electricity.

Do you advocate building them here: SaveRoxbury.org? Look at the pictures. Roxbury Pond has been called one of the most beautiful lakes in western Maine due to its panoramic views of mountains on all sides. Eagles roost on the island. These turbines are within 1 mile line of sight of communities on both sides of the ridge.

AWEA recommends caution when siting turbines on ridges with communities below due to noise carrying because wind will be sufficient to turn the rotors even when it is dead quiet in the valley below - perfect conditions for Wind Turbine Syndrome. On flat land wind noise will screen turbine sound but not in these ridge/valley sites that will predominate in Maine. Mars Hill times 55. Thousands of Maine's residents will be put at risk.

Maine's noise regs which date from the 70's do not anticipate the noise that turbines emit. Rural communities have night time levels of 20-25 decibels. DEP noise limits are 45 decibels. Turbine noise levels of 55 db are common at Mars Hill and DEP is giving the wind project a VARIANCE! Anything over 5 db increase over background noise levels is noticeable. 10 db is objectionable. 20 db is torture. Obama just outlawed torture.

Check out the shadow flicker video from Freedom, Maine. How would you like to live with that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XCA0_W9Qxs

Where to begin? Oh, yes, lets go back to deregulation, which promised lower electrical rates by having more competetive power generation. Breaking Bangor Hydro and CMP away from producing power within Maine ended up being a disaster! Then Maine got involved in ISO New England, which is also resulting in increasing our electric bills as we end up paying a disproportionate share of electrical infrastructure costs to help MA & CT, the two power hogs in New England. Now its on to Baldacci's ill advised quest to make Maine into a major wind power exporter. Folks, where does this farce end?

We need to get out of ISO immediately and either negotiate a regional grid with New Brunswick or simply go it on our own. Let Aroostook County be self contained, as Maine Public Service does a good job for that region. The only reason people want to connect it to the rest of the grid is because the wind tax subsidy pigs want to ravage every ridgeline they can with their sprawling industrial sites. Not connecting Aroostook County's grid to the rest of ISO New England effectively shuts the door to First Wind, Horizon Wind and others of their ilk.

As for the rest of Maine, since we already have more electrical production than we use and the transmission lines are adequate for the Maine grid, we can very easily go it on our own. Whatever incremental upgrades to make electrical power distribution within Maine a bit more efficient and safer, we can do on our own, regulated by our PUC, and not part of a $1.4 billion expansion needed to deliver wind power from rural Maine to southern New England.

Every lake and pond in Maine is one of the most beautiful in Maine. That's not the argument.

As for the reliability upgrade CMP is currently undertaking, that has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with wind power. It has everything to do with a system that is 40 years old and is expensive to run around maintaining. Why did Verizon sell their landline phone business in Maine? Because the infrastructure on the poles was 40+ years old in many spots. And, landline phones are not profitable in the future.

Maine Public Service does a great job for Aroostook County - so great that they got a 40% rate increase 2 years ago when one bidder showed up to provide power. Thank the PUC that the supplier did not get the 80% increase requested in their filing!! Connecting northern Maine to the rest of the grid is all about creating competitive pricing. Not connecting northern Maine to ISO does not shut the door on transmission lines. There are independent transmission companies out there as well. MEPCO is a good example.

Steve - to put your dB levels in perspective, a typical office environment generates 60 dB of noise. Ambient levels in the woods of Maine are typically in the 30-35 dB range. +5 dB is noticeable, but not necessarily annoying. Mars Hill has unique topographical issues caused by the shape of the land around homes downwind of the turbines. Yes, they have some reason to be concerned. At least one of those landowners built their home at the same time the wind farm was being built - that was a choice, and a bad one it seems. Visual impact is usually the biggest concern. I'll take a windmill over a smokestack any day of the week.

Deanhornblower - it's a good thing the fine folks who refine gasoline don't take the same approach as you do with regard to closing our state's borders. How much gasoline do we produce in Maine? Whose backyard is it produced in?? We have land that is suitable for growing apples, potatoes, blueberries, etc. We also have land that works for wind power. Why not work to create jobs and a stable economy in the state, and export the excess production? Wouldn't it be great to have people from away paying money for a product made in Maine, and have Mainers benefit from that?? Or, perhaps Bath Iron Works is a blight on the landscape owned by some international corporate empire that provides no benefit here. Maybe we should close that too. After all, we have all the guided missle destroyers we need in Maine already!! We are self sufficient. This type of thinking is why the State of Maine is the largest employer in the State of Maine.

Windfuture, to put your dB in perspective, a wind farm is not an office. Have you read Nina Pierpont's study? Are you a Wind Turbine Syndrome skeptic? Have you watched the YouTube videos of people from around the world who are living with the debilitating consequences of turbines?

Do you really not care about the Mainers who will be living below these 1200 turbines - turbines that will contribute, if your numbers are correct at 30% (which they are not - look up the reports), 900 MW of grid capacity - still less than 1% of the demand of the ISO NW grid?

Would you prefer one smokestack from a clean gas plant, in an industrial area zoned and appropriate for such use, to 1200 turbines in, as you put it so well, the most beautiful places in Maine? What ratio of smokestacks to turbines are you talking about? On a one to one basis I'd take a turbine on a ridge over a smokestack on a ridge also. Is that what you mean? Please explain.

Your arguments are so specious that I have to conclude that you have a vested personal interest in wind power. Am I right about that? Would you mind identifying yourself? I am not hiding in anonymity. Why are you?

steve.., dean..., wind..., thank you for your knowledgeable dialogue which has revealed many interesting points. Wind..., thanks for the reference although I still haven't found what I'm looking for. To go OT for a second, what does everyone think about a revival of tidal power? I think in the long term it might have the greatest benefit for the least environmental impact and would provide for the entire ISO NE grid and beyond.

By WILLIAM TUCKER, Wall Street Journal

"There isn't much doubt that Congress and incoming President Barack Obama will try to impose some kind of limits on carbon emissions. The Republicans, girding in opposition, are denouncing global warming as a fraud, and claiming that either a carbon tax or cap-and-trade system will impose an unacceptable burden on the economy.

Their strategy of stonewalling cedes the game in what will be the most dangerous aspect of carbon legislation -- the effort to use the proceeds of an emissions tax to subsidize a dead-end expedition into "renewable" energy.

Whether global warming is real will probably not be known for another 50 years. There are signs, in the melting of the Arctic ice cap and warming in Alaska, that something unusual is happening to the climate. But skeptics note that world temperatures haven't risen since 1998 and that, if anything, recent weather has been unseasonably cold. Still, that doesn't mean we can dump billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year without eventual consequences.

A $50 per ton carbon tax would raise gasoline prices about 25 cents per gallon -- nothing we haven't experienced in the last two years -- and accelerate a move toward electric hybrids, weaning us away from foreign oil. Nothing catastrophic there. The same levy would raise electric rates about 10%, which would encourage conservation while pushing us away from fossil fuels.

The real danger is that, instead of refunding the tax to consumers, Congress will grab the money to subsidize the current craze for specific forms of energy, particularly wind or biofuels.

Wind generation is the prime example of what can go wrong when the government decides to pick winners. The idea that it can replace significant quantities of coal or natural gas in electrical generation is a fantasy.

Windmills generate power only 25% of the time and can change output minute-to-minute. A contemporary electric grid is a highly tuned instrument that cannot vary in voltage by more than a few percentage points without causing brownouts or damaging electric equipment. Under these circumstances, wind is more of a nuisance than a source of power.

Nonetheless, wind is our fastest growing form of electrical generation, due entirely to federal and state subsidies and "renewable portfolios," in which the government tells utility companies what to build. In a few years we could find ourselves in the position of Denmark -- which has built thousands of windmills without closing a single fossil-fuel plant.

Biofuels have already proven to be an even bigger disaster. They've gobbled up 30% of our corn crop and have leveled tropical forests, while replacing less than 3% of our oil.

Solar energy, on the other hand, has distinct advantages that will emerge from limiting carbon emissions without any additional subsidies. Besides being carbon-free, solar electricity is at a maximum when it's needed most -- on hot summer afternoons. This is when the utilities need "peaking power," usually provided by expensive gas turbines. Rooftop solar collectors could provide ample peaking electricity, particularly in southern climates where air conditioning is a way of life.

The real beneficiary of a carbon-emissions regimen, however, is likely to be nuclear power."

Here are some links to references mentioned above:

New York State wind integration study - http://nyserda.org/publications/wind_integration_report.pdf "the results show that the effective capacities (UCAP) of the inland wind site wind sites in New York are on the order of about 10% of their rated capacities, even though their energy capacity factors are on the order of 30% This is due to the seasonal and daily fluctuations of wind power being largely "out of phase" with the NYISO load patterns."

Deutch grid study - http://www.dena.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Download/Dokumente/Projekte/kraftwerke_netze/netzstudie1/dena-grid_study_summary.pdf Page 12 "the guaranteed capacity (capacity credit) of all (land based) wind energy facilities... corresponds to about 9% of installed capacity".

THere is noise, and there is noise. Dba, DbC ..Rural areas have lower levels than stated above. 18-25 Dba are common in rural areas. DbC is more of a danger . Ask if it is evaluated by Firstwind, and how.Low frequency DbC makes your chest roll , vibrate,It penetrates deeply the human body . It is a hazard to health, and should be regulated by Dept. of Health, not DEP as well. These low level Hz oscillations are not part of a normal rural landscape 24/7 either. Independent science is needed, not the PR bolgna the public is presently being handed above.

Thus. it isnt just the view, as Big Winds PR staffs above trys to say. THere are now definitive , peer reviewed studies . Siting is illegal in many Maine areas if science is used, not railroaded political process to obtain tax benefits to Firstwind . At $23.37/MW cost, this SCAM is doomed.. .

I've always thought the wind farm concept made sense.....but I went out to Beaver Ridge in Freedom a few times after hearing about noise/flicker issues and suddenly I'm not thinking the Mars Hill folks are a bunch of whiners, like I previously did.

Depending on wind direction, the sound carries about a quarter of a mile downslope and was equivalent to having a gravel pit a couple of hundred feet from where you're standing, with the noise muffled, like heavy equipment working 75' down in a pit. Not just the whoosh sound but a electrical/gear sound that was continuous.

These companies should have to locate 1/2 mile from residences or take the properties by eminent domain if needed, at fair market value.

Regarding ISONE, our rates have been pretty flat for years in Maine, I don't think it's changed a bit since the big boys got out of the generation business. They're foreign owned anyhow.

wayback,

to appreciate the intensity of the sound you need to be there on a quiet evening when the turbines are turning even though there is little wind at ground level. the difference between backgound noise level and the whine and thump of the turbines will be quite noticeable and will carry for a much greater distance than 1/2 mile in line of sight. during the day ambient levels are louder and the sound of the turbines is less noticeable. sleeplessness is the #1 complaint of people living near turbines.

WRofGlenburn,

you are welcome. regarding tidal power, it seems to me the technology is no more challenging than building wind turbines in the ocean, which is a difficult environment for bearings, wires, seals, etc. these things have to work 24-7 without maintenance for years. can it be done? maybe. can we afford it? i doubt it. subsidies for development of new technology is one thing. subsidizing the industry after the technology is proven effective is the mistake we are making. the wind industry has a much greater head start and political power than all other forms of renewable generation and it does not want to share the subsidy feeding trough with challengers. if we eliminate subsidies for all types of generation we will find out what the most cost effective energy sources are. cap and trade, renewable portfolio standards, tax credits, preferential depreciation, etc make the cost of electricity much higher than it would otherwise be and allow for huge guaranteed profits. these "tax benefits" are the inventions of the wind industry.