Gay marriage supporters, opponents ready for fight

I almost fell off my computer chair laughing with glee.

Surely "Tony Perkins,' head of the Family Research Council in Washington, D.C., who will speak. at this rally is aware of the fact that his name sake movie actor Tony Perkins was an uptight notoriously gay person who had an affair with fellow movie actor and heart throb Tab Hunter, according to Mr. Hunter's recently published memoirs.

I don't believe it's fair to expect gay people to have to come out to the world until after legislation is passed to grant them the full civil rights to live their own lives according to law.

It's obvious that the guns are already loaded and aimed at a very large portion of the Maine population.

Nobody is asking these manipulative trouble makers who are, for some strange reason, opposing this legislation to expound to the world at large on what they do when they are having sex.

As a matter of fact, I doubt very much if any of us really even care!

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

New York, New York

the bible tells us that Bangor is a City of Whorres

You know, in thinking about it I'm surprised that the Catholic Church would go along with bringing in a big expensive professionally run organization from Washington, D.C. in order to beat its parishioners down.

I never knew the Catholic Church to share the wealth.

For the first time in my life I'm ashamed to say that I'm a Roman Catholic.

Everything happens if you live long enough!

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

New York, New York

It's like a strong Catholic told me back when the church changed its doctrines and called it Vatican 2.

The person said," The church was losing its congregants so now they've changed it all over to attract more people regardless of the fact that no new people are joining the church, and the new changes are only causing the people who did stay to leave.

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

New York, New York

I can't wait to go to my first lesbian wedding in Maine, but only if the two girls are hot...not the chunky ones with the short spiky hair kind.

, Beelzebubba

Somethig tells me you're not going to get invited!

Mainelyme

Beezlebubba... in a perfect world this would be the only type of gay or lesbian relationships I would allow.

hot steamy sultry redhead lesbians

i don't mind if they're a little chunky just make sure they're not overly butch lol

AMHI4ME- Beelzebubba

Why don't you two f aggots get a life!

Mainelyme

Why Perley, seems like you're butting in. Aren't you the one that rails on people to MYOB?

Can't wait to see all the ignorant comments on this one. No one has the right to vote on anyone's marriage. Who cares if gay people get married? What business is it of our's anyway? I proudly support them. If we are allowed to vote on their marriage, we should have to vote on everyone's, and from their, we should vote on who can reproduce. Perhaps they should take some sort of intelligence test in order to be a parent. I am sick of the ignorance surrounding this issue. Gay people are just like everyone else. How would we even know they were married if they didn't announce it? What are people so afraid of? Mainelyme, I am with you, I too am ashamed to be a Catholic. Don't they teach us to love all as Jesus did...? We are supposed to have equal right for all in this country, not just some!

dirigodad

Why Dirigo:

You're awfully interested in the gay life

Why don't you join these two morons

Maybe you already have at the local highway rest area.

Do you know how many young innocent girls have been brutalized , raped and killed by half witted asshioles like these?

I hope it happens to your sister, mother, daughter, aunt or niece and then you'll know what attitudes like these cause.

On second thought, you're a religious person you must already be schtumping them! yourself

I wouldn't dare to bend over in front of any of you Bible Thumpers!

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

Wow...what a reaction...who knew that you taking a little of your own medicine would provoke such invective?

I don't agree with either poster, but I find it somewhat instructive that apparently you're the only one on this message board that can be crude when it comes to this topic. And I find it ironic that a stalwart defender of immorality is throwing a fit of moral outrage.

That's quite the ego you've got there, Mr. Man...

I was baptized in the Catholic Church on York Street in Bangor 69 years ago next July.

I have made my First Communion, Confirmation and attended Catholic Mass all my life, and I say Catholic prayers every night when I get in bed, and also many many times during the day.

I have never heard a member, lay member or clergyman or any other representative of the Catholic Church talk the filth that I've read here on this open blog presented by what used to be a perfectly respectable hometown newspaper called The Bangor Daily News.

None of this garbage has been written by anyone identifying themselves as being Roman Catholic however, with the new pact that the Catholic Church is making with the Devil by joining forces with these Godless Cults and Sects they have laid down with dogs.

And everyone knows what happens when you lie down with dogs.

You get back up as a Bible Thumping Holy Roller!

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

New York, New York

dirigodad

And that's quite a psychological sickness thhat you've got there, Bud!

Mainelyme

And like the Bible says, "I love the churches, I just hate the people who attend them!"

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

I take it not many people who are proponents of gay marriage and civil unions have thought very much about adoption. What about the right of a child to be adopted by a traditional man/woman family. Does that child have any rights to say that he or she would like to have a MOMMY and a DADDY instead of two daddies or two mommies??? What right does any state have to send a child to a family that does not fit the biblical or Darwinism theories of family or life, to a situation that could not have possibly created that child?. Two men cannot make a child, nor can two women. Does not a child have a right to decide? I guess not in Maine . Most adopted children are not old enough to understand. Too bad, because I would believe most children, giving the choice, would choose the traditional family. Ok, now is the time you start to call me prejudice to gay couples, or many other names, but that is simply not the case. I have gay friends that are in relationships as a couples living together and they are all great people, no different than you nor I except for their sexual orientation. But that does not make me feel it is the right environment to bring up a child. Think about it! Think about the children and coping with that situation though out their lives. Is that fair? I believe there are enough traditional couples looking to adopt a child to fill the needs.

I was adopted when I was three months old. I would not want to imagine two mommies or two daddies. I was given up by my mom at birth and as far as I can tell by reports from the adoption agency my dad did not even know I existed. I was adopted by a couple who could not have children for medical reasons. They are my mother and father and I enjoyed a great upbringing. I did not have to bear the added bourdon of gay marriage and I shouldn’t have to explain what that would be like, if you are honest with yourselves you can figure it out.

I believe in civil unions but not marriage in the traditional sense for gay couples. Unfortunately the state of Maine courts as of last year have said gay couples have the same rights to adopt as gay singles. Maine is one of the few states to have ruled this. I hope that changes.

mykso57:

Worry about adoption after the United States Citizens who deserve to be able to live their own adult lives are given the legal rights to do so.

But, seeing as you raised the subject, and the fact that I'm going to start minding other people's business, too.

Your genetic parents sound like the kind of people who should have been prevented from being able to breed in the first place.

How many brothers and sisters do you have running around this world that were dropped by your mother like a cow drops its newborn in a field?

I'm happy to know that you were adopted by a nice couple but, are you absolutely sure they are both 100% Heterosexual, and have you since started to casually drop your calves in a field like your mother did?

With a background like that how do you even know that you haven't married or had children with your own brother?

Abortion is starting to seem like more and more of a good idea as all of this argument goes along.

It seems to me that you have a lot more to worry about than who in future will be adopting whom, and you should start out by doing it right now.

Mainelyme

If the comments here are a taste of the upcoming referendum campaigns, it's going to be ugly and divisive.

Lip stick Lesbians are fine....

I could care less if Gays marry. I wouldn't ever care if they renamed Rts 2 from Bangor to Newport the " Hershey Highway"...as long as the state paved it first....unreal

I think its great, let them all get married. It helps with population growth. I look at it this way if being gaywas normal then the good lord ( if there is one ) would have made so either sex could bear children with out the help of the opposite sex .. I cant believe that Maine wants to be like California. Lets face it the catholic religion is based on the gay life. When a preacher approached me when i was young assured me of that. As soon as i was old enough to stop going to church (not being forced to by parents ) I stopped,.. I pity any young person that is forced to go to a Catholic church.

I wish i could three wifes but i cant. I have to live with in the laws....

Where is 4Him2Day and the rest of the bible punchers? Surely we won't make it through the day if the angry Christians don't get in on this post.

diverman , you will get some heat for your statement. They think it normal to poke each other in the anus. Also you don't want 3 wifes. Not even 1. Slap yourself for that statement LOL!!!!!

Gay people deserve the right to get married and be as miserable as everyone else :)

After reading what Mainelyme has to say, I've come to the conclusion that he is kinda messed up in the head. He seems to be a very nasty person who hangs out at the local highway rest area's, you know, one of those sick suckers that meets other men there to have oral sex with.etc

I could give 2 sh!ts about this. With all thats wrong in society right now I could care less about what gets someone thru the night. It dosen't affect me in any way.

the bilble says adam and eve not adam and steve..hello

bangorian, here I am, glad you missed me :) Christians aren't the ones sounding angry to me. How's your day going so far?

Just shack up.

If your into 2 men sword fighting with their penis then so be it. On guard elton. LOL!!!! I heard Elton and Boy George like to sword fight each other.

This debate is getting to be like those Friday the 13th Movies.....thump, thump, thump, thump.......

EastPort039

Right on brotha!!!

Shiretown.net - Aroostook Countys Discussion Forum

gay people? sherry how harsh

They may wear a wedding ring.But they never will be married in Gods eyes.

I am very for gay marriage for numerous reasons.

1. Why not let 2 men raise a child, most men who produce the children in this world dont take care of them.

2. Most homosexual relationships last longer than any marriage has so why not let our divorce rate go down?

3. Are they physically harming you? no, so get your head out of your ass.

4. Homosexuals tend to have more money because they do not have children (yet) so they have higher income, stimulate our economy that the white trash has destroyed because they are on welfare, collecting it, not working and producing more children who will end up just like them.

5. Religon has nothing to do with being gay, people were born that way. Noone wakes up in the morning thinking they are going to be gay today.

6. Most of the best clothing in the world is designed by gay men.

With that said, I wish Americans could take a second look at what is being said about homosexuals because half the people who will comment on here saying horrible things about them wouldnt be caught dead saying things about a black person. though you think it.

I'll have to give you that one 4Him. This issue does seem to bring out the worst in everyone.

This kid I knew stopped at a rest area. Little did he know it was a place where gay men hung out. He was approached by one of them and he wouldn't back away.One of them was hiding in the stalls. Anyway little did they know though this kid was a stick of dynamite waiting to be lit. He did not become one of their victims. They eventually had to close the rest area. The public did not want to use the rest area. They were afraid to.

All I know is we should let PEOPLE do what hey want, I mean gays ARE people too. Just because everyone has such different opinions and beliefs it makes this topic so crazy, it is the year 2009...gays are everywhere, get used to it! I think we all should mind our OWN business and stop trying to manage other peoples lives. When the end comes THEY will have to answer to the Man upstairs for their life...not you.

eastcoast, lets tackle your points one by one,

#1-false

#2- false

#3- yes, i can feel myself coming down with PTSD

#4- lets skip that one

#5- false

#6- so what

Boy! That Maine Family Policy Council is going to be busy making a lot of handbaskets aren't they? They always manage to slither out from beneath the rocks.

EastCoastB, They may not be physically harming people,but they are mentally harming them, you think two men doing each other it is normal ?Get you head out of your rectum ! Also a child being raised by two Homosexual men would grow up thinking that it is normal for two men to have sex with each other. You also mentioned that people were born that way, No that has not been proven! Its a learned behavior , and I do beleave that homosexual men try to promote there ways upon young men that are confused with life.

The two lesbians who sued the state of Massachusetts to allow them to marry after being a couple for 20 years are getting a divorce after only 4 years of wedded bliss. Like men in divorces, I wonder if the butch one will get screwed when the assets are "divided".

A local Bangor liberal biased newspaper writes another pro gay article on the support for unhealthy, deviant behavior which claims lives sooner than smokers. Tony Perkins has a PHD an is a lot smarter than the idiots who criticize him. Report the truth for a change.

Elizabethann, that must mean ALL gay folks are destructive, horrible people and herero folks are ALL great do-gooders. Awesome story. Too bad it's completely irrelevant. Also, the comments regarding what the bible says as the be all, end all are silly. The fact is that the bible isn't. Marriage is a man made institution, ever evolving. Leave the bible out of it- everyone is free to believe what he wants, but to use one collection of writing to make an argument for all just isn't right. The bible says lots of things that just don't fly today. God hates shellfish- it says so in the bible!

ruth...I didn't bring Bible into it. Don't have to...it's just not natural. Nothing holy comes out of a homosexual union. We are called to be a holy people. But since you brought up the Bible. Yes, marriage was instituted by God. In a Christian marriage, God is the third person in the marriage. Whenever we leave God out of anything we will see disorder which we plainly see in our world. Chaos.

ruthbangor, I'm christian and I want to thank you for helping me decide on what to have for supper tonight, clam chowder, yes! God hates sin not shellfish.

Marriage is the Holy Union between one man, one woman and God!

Period!

Chaos in our world is happening because of religion. Everyone is fighting over whose god is the right one. E, I know you didn't bring up the bible. I was addressing other comments at that point. Your words... "a Christian marriage..." Not everyone who gets married is Christian! It's a legal issue, not religious. If it were, people who subscribe to religions other than yours would be fighting this same fight with gays. Live and let live. It's not your job to recruit everyone into Christianity.

Too bad the feds cleaned out the mental institutions back in the 70's.

The patients who needed them most took their Bibles with them and are all trying to get into the business for themselves.

Instead of sending your money to this Tony Perkins, who's also an actor, better all of you should pay your oil bills and buy yourself a loaf of cake.

I'm sure God will have more respect for your having done it.

I know I would!""

Mainelyme

Homosexual acts are sickening, disgusting deviant lustful acts that demoralize society!

I thouht christians didnt live by the law of Leviticus?

What religion endorses homosexual activity?...NONE!

To Michael Heath and other hate mongers...

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law.

As you said "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I

try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries

to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that

Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of

God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female,

provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine

claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus

21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her

period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is

how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a

pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They

claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.

clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him

myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an

abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than

homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there

'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a

defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading

glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some

wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around

their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How

should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me

unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different

crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing

garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He

also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really

necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together

to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a

private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws?

(Lev. 20:14)

11. And what about the gay lobsterman from Stonington who pulls traps on Sunday and wears clothes made of more than two kinds of thread and plants both potatoes and corn in the same field...Wow....Four abominations in one day.

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable

expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can

help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and

unchanging.

There is only one God. Many just choose to believe what they want to believe about Him. I do not try to recruit everyone to Christianity. Just some. God does most of the recruiting...His way is better than my way. Sometimes He knocks some off their high horses...sometimes He uses a two by four...

I wish you book bangers would get a new argument to go with a new news release.

Same foolish quotes that you've been using since all this began.

All of you must have very uncluttered minds.

Mainelyme

I'd like to buy your daughter(s) (legal age 16 in maine) for slavery purposes.

mend my coat yah wench

and it was so.

What if your child was gay?

Would all of you who are against gay and think they are disgusting try to "fix" your child?

If its so disgusting, unnatural and wrong you must have raised them wrong?

Thats when a young adult get confused because they know its not acceptable in their parents tiny brains,

And about gay men molesting a child and turning them gay thats ludicris,

im pretty sure the catholic church is having a problem with that am i wrong?

AMHI4ME

You don't talk fit to eat.

But, your boyfriends all do anyway!

Mainelyme

Can we curb the dirty talk please?

You've got all the little old ladies-and men-using their fingers!

Mainelyme

RevGerald

You think you are clever! But your ignorance shines bright!

You can not know about what Leviticus teaches if you dont read the Book! Taking snippets to suit your own purposes is ignorant!

AMHI4ME. they wouldnt interested in an $8.00 income/250lb/capehart livin/chimney smoker/alcholic scum

Just saying what characteristics people like you have.

AMHI4ME

So, when did you first discover that you're Black and Gay?

Mainelyme

HAHA Kudos Mainelyme

Anthropologist would have a field day studying you Orangutangs.

I'd say Neanderthals but at least they were were smart enough to disapear!

Mainelyme

Wow... what a pot of religious and secular sarcasm this has all devolved into. Oh well, better than preaching I guess, but it does completely miss the point of approaching this with logic and reason. So, let's step back for a moment and take the two most common themes running here.

1. Homosexuality is sinful according to the [insert denomination here] religion

Who cares? Civil law is not based upon any religious dogma, so that really has no bearing whatsoever on the issue of equal treatment of citizens by government establishments. Live your life according to whatever god you choose, but don't expect the structure of this nations civil law to be based upon it. Use it to live your life, and to guide the lives of those closest to you, but don't try to interpret law that is forced upon a nation of people by your view of god and the hereafter. You come across sounding like some christian Taliban.

2. Homosexuality is "not normal"

Homosexuality is a natural part of the world around you, and is practiced by many different animal species for many different reasons, including pure pleasure. Saying it's not normal simply shows ignorance and lack of understanding of the natural world around you. Simple education can fix that if you just take the time.

So, what's the next reasonable, logical argument against same sex marriage?

gays = liberals

liberals love gays

that means that every democrat/iberal out there is a gay lover?

RevGerald you made my day. I am still grinning. I have spent many a year contradicting "Christians" with their own book, but never as eloquently as you have here. Anyone who actually reads the Bible, or any of the Holy texts from any of the big three, will see that they are shot through with contradictions and ancient tribal laws that have no relevance to society at large.

Unfortunately those who believe only what they are told about religion and people different from themselves are not apt to be dissuaded by logical discourse. The point of this whole discussion is that there is a separation of church and state in this country. It doesn't matter what faith we follow or what we see as wrong because of that faith. We are not allowed to make laws based on religious doctrine.

Please, all of you who are standing upon your Biblical soapbox; keep your dogma out of other people's bedrooms and civil rights. One of the reasons our sons and daughters are dying in Afganistan is to free the people there from the Taliban who forced their fundamentalist brand of religion on an entire country: putting men to death for shaving, putting women to death for showing their faces and stoning children for playing and singing. Is that the kind of government you want? Well, you are on a slippery slope kids.

And, RevGerald, I sincerely hope you don't mind if I use your letter in future discussions of Biblical law. It is truly brilliant. BTW, I can't keep track of the exchange rate anymore; how much do Canadians go for now?

This Wasington D.C. based outsider Tony Perkins will be telling the people of Maine who suffer from depraved indifference to raid the cookie jar and send their money into his Washington based anti marriage organization,

And of course they will as Faith Based Witch Doctor Jimmy Haggart has to pay off yet another cheap male pick up.

If these poor misguided little brain washed denizens of their own swampy minds would read a newspaper instead of a Bible they'd all realize that their hard to come by dollars are funding Homosexuality and Homosexuals already.

They just ain't gettiing any of it!

Mainelyme

RevGerald, thank you for your listing of the sins of Leviticus. As I sit here with my lobster breakfast, planning on the crop rotations and making pig-pen improvements, I also ponder the 6th Chapter of Matthew, which clearly states that a relationship with God is a personal issue and there should be no show of religion. I guess all these bible belters forgot that part. Easy to do, I guess. Pick and choose religion. Thankfully, we live in a country based upon freedom of and freedom from religion. I guess the bible belters like to forget that part, too. For all the intelligent comments out there, thank you. This is not a religious issue, it is a civil issue, just as marriage is a legal issue and not a religious issue. If god is the third party of a marriage, wouldn't that be a menage-et-trois and polygamy?

Another thought, if Michael Heath and his biggot friends were really "christians", wouldn't they do better to spend their money on feeding the poor rather than promoting hate and oppressive legislation? Let's call them what they are, biggots.

I think it is there choice and if they want to get married in Maine they can why does anyone else care it is not u they should pass the law right away

Anisa ^_^

Michael Heath's money is the money that he milks from the poor hardworking uneducated and gullible people that he and his ilk have brainwashed into supporting him in the style to which he wishes to become accustomed.

If there weren't huge amounts of free money involved in preaching about false gods then he'd be raidng other people's hedge funds.

Mainelyme

I have always been taught (yes, in a Christian church) that the point of Christianity and being Christian was to love one another and accept one another as a gift from God. We are all created by God and to discriminate by sexual persuasion, just as by race, creed or color, is a sin against God. Let's all be Christian and correct a wrong. It's long over due!!

RevGerald,

As a new comer to "religion" and reading the Bible. I have to say you mentioned many things that makes a waivering new believer wonder. As far as homosexuality and marraige, who knows what is right. I certainly don't and sorry if I offend anyone but the Bible is confusing on many points. In many areas it says we will be put to death for working the Sabbath, not honering covenants, if you are divorced you are an adulterous, if you remarry so is your husband. I turned to religion looking for hope in this world, but have to admit it causes for confusion, then help. TO each his own I quess is the answer to gay marriage and all other ways of life.

Oh no, not another political football where the game never ends. I thought we were still playing 'abortion football' and now it's "gay marriage football'. I wanted to play 'medical weed' football. At least we could benefit from the tax revenue. When it comes to a 'persuit of happiness', expect opposition and expect it to come from the thumpers.

I'll make my 1 post for the day, lest I tempt my neighbors to devolve into threats against my life again, as yesterday. RevGerald seems to make an "eloquent" pitch using the Book of Leviticus, and its numerous laws intended for the Jews of ancient times. The point that is missed in the reading is that God only provided such laws after man's fall from Grace - and only based on man's actions toward his fellow man. People owned slaves in ancient times - and in this country right up until the 19th century. God gave laws for their treatment because man would do it regardless. That is not sanctioning their sin - only regulating it. God also commanded His people to completely and utterly destroy other nations - man, woman, child and every beast, knowing full well they could not do as he asked. The Biblical stories are simply examples of man's shortcomings. How many times were the Jews allowed to fall into captivity for their lack of obedience? In more modern times, how many Catholics using the name of God slaughtered innocents to conquer the holy land. How many "witches" were burned at the stake in Europe? As I said yesterday - simply claiming to be a Christian doesn't make you one.

To those who think that Christians want to force our views on others - step off! We're not the ones marching up and down the street telling everyone what we do in our bedrooms! We're not the ones trying to mold society to fit our views. We simply defend our faith and our beliefs. And anyone who thinks that homosexuals have no beliefs is fooling himself. Atheism is a religious belief. Belief that homosexuality is ok is a religious/moral belief. You keep your views out of my laws, and I'll do the same.

This comment is on the subject of same sex marriage. I cannot believe that I read all the previous comments. It appears that many people were just posting against one other person. Let me begiin, I have been married for close to 50 years to the woman of my life. I have no interest whether 2 people of same sex want to get married. It does not affect me in any form, shape or manner. Not being well versed in the Bible I can not use it to take any position. Peace for all is my main interest.

Right on Mainelyme......I could care what other folks do in their bedrooms,etc. I think I should focus on living my life the best I can and being a good and caring person.....as for the "tradional family"....yes, there is something to be said about that, positively.....but look at the very high divorce rate among heterosexuals.....extremely high rate of divorce, and growing, in the military (this is well documented).......if some child has no real home....and some loving couple (of whatever orientation.....as long as they are good and loving parents) would give this child security and love.....how can anyone sit and judge that??!!!

Oriianasue47: 11:11 AM post....BRAVO!!

Right-on milomaine: 10:53 AM.....where are their priorities, one wonders!!!

Jimmy Haggard, Baker (Tammy Faye and husband) , Oral Roberts, Ted Swaggard (that isn't his correct name...would have to look it up......the one who preached against homosexuality, yet engaged in it and, by choice, has been on a lot of news shows lately...all kinds of news shows, btw..)....so many....."fundamentalists".....who could follow these people?....I am not talking about Billy Graham here (he is a really fine man, whether I would completely agree with all he says or not..)....

jaguarsky: 10:46 AM...Very reasoned.....makes a lot of sense to me....maybe not to everyone....each to his own, I always say.....

Kiera, don't waiver, read back thru the posts and it's easy to see where the hate is spewing from. It's not from the christians. Gerald just copied and pasted a post from yesterday and it was addressed yesterday quite well. He didn't come up wit that on his own. The comments making reference to scripture are so ignorant and taken completely out of text. Levitical laws were spoken to a ancient society with customs that are so different from our own and thats where some of the confusion arises. There are many cultures today that have laws that the west might find strange and vise versa. If you're sincere in your wanting answers God will provide them, you'll see. The fear(reverance) of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. There is no reverance for God in any of their comments, and God won't be mocked by them either, they will someday answer for every word spoken and so will we. God bless

EastCoastB: 9:43 AM Good points....think of our ex Vice President Cheney.....I do not care for the man at all .....but I give him this.....as it is well known, one of his 2 daughters is gay.....she is very smart , it appears, and a loving daughter,etc.......Cheney and his wife have, admirably, always been supportive of her.....and vocally so.....they do not appear to be ashamed about it.....I give them a lot of credit in this.....he also has been a lot more "liberal" in his views and talks pertaining to homosexuals than in other matters.....I think we can guess why....till certain things touch close to home....maybe we do not fully know what it is like for those people.....and should not judge.....

Who the heck would "choose" a homosexual lifestyle and take all the offense, harassment, grief that attends it???.....I do not think so.....plus there is such a thing as hormones going awry, chemicals in the brain,etc.....there is proof of this....but I am sure someone can come up with some nasty remark....WE ARE ALL GOD'S CHILDREN!!

I know of , for example, two girls being brought up by 2 gay women....these 2 girls are only attracted to the opposite sex....they are polite, smart, engaging, wonderful human beings and not being influenced by their parents.....except to be taught to be loving, caring and good people who do not spend their time discriminating and being suspicious and hateful in their minds towards those who may thing differently than they do.....this is only one example....you know not what you speak of....

Yes EasCoastB 8:16 AM: They are focusing on the wrong people......this evil excuse of a human being (Bangor restaurant owner) was not gay....the ones who harm kids....rape ,etc. are not gay!....they are violent and evil....and it is about control with them anyway as most people know.......it is not really about "sex" per se......they are evil.....and they destroy young children's lives forever.....but hey....on their deathbed, may ask to be "born again" and everything is okey dokey.....never mind the lives they have ruined forever.....YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!

Oh, that "adam and steve" thing is so old.....

If a person is sincere, and only God truly knows that, key word being sincere, then yes you can be forgiven. Dosen't mean you wont suffer the consequences of your actions here on earth. Only God can forgive like that, only God can love like that. Thats what makes GOD.. GOD. Forgiving someone of horrendous wrong isn't something you do for them, you need to do it for yourself. There is only one unpardonable sin in the whole bible and thats rejecting Jesus.

REVGERALD Your anti-semeticremarks are not appeciated.

Also why is one law okay to follow but not all?

And who's business is it of yours how one loves the Lord God with all their heart soul and mind?

Rachael1962: No, I did not appreciate his remarks either (Rev G???) He must not believe in a loving God.

4HIm2day: I like what you wrote....makes moral sense,etc.

By the way AMHI4ME, no where does it say in the Bible that Bangor is a City of W*****! Better check your information. As far as the Bible saying your quote,"I love churches, I just hate people who attend them." says NO SUCH THING! Check your information right along with AMHI4ME. I also wouldlike to say I agree 100% with Eastport 039! The Bible does say God created Adam & Eve NOT Adam & Steve! Moosehunt you are absolutely right gays/ lesbians will not be married in Gods' eyes. EastCoast B, reason # 5: NO! Gays /lesbians are NOT born that way, it's a learned trait! Last but certianly not least, frostheev, YES! It's about time someone spoke up, about a marriage being betwen one man, one woman and God. Thank you! you made my day.

Leviticus was given to the Israelites. The Jews.Yes a woman doesn't have sexual relations at a specific time as written in Leviticus until they fullfiil the Mitzvah of Mikvah after she menstruates. Tha is a spiritual responsibilty of a Jewish woman.

And yes the law of kasher to not eat unclean animals or mix meat and milk, that to is a law of Leviticus.

Yes homosexuality is an abomation but that doesn't make a homosexual less human. t makes their lives take a different spiritual course in finding a relationship with the Lord.

Have you ever sinned?

I'm sure from past experience that these postings can't be kept on subject, which is same sex marriage and not one's supposed love of God.

But, for the love of God can all of you at least try?

Mainelyme

sldunton51,

your an idoit you should stop talking forever

and i didnt ask for your opinion.

You sound like you need to get some education,

but i will ask you this.

how do you learn to be gay?

please id like details on how to become gay?

is it like going to school? who do you learn it from?

because supposedly you "learn" it.

sldunton51

"The Bible does say God created Adam & Eve NOT Adam & Steve!"

Oh, really?

That's quite a cast of characters you've got there, toots.

Where does God mention Steve and, does Cecil B. DeMille know about this change in the script?

CALL CENTRAL CASTING. WE NEED A STEVE!"

Mainelyme

It is about a Godly relationship.

Damn leftest democrats ruined this for all we non-liberel bible thumping folk...

When the state takes a spiritual condition and allows for the spirtual rendering of obligation through law then a perversion of justice occurs.

That being to take a select group and grant them rights of a spiritual nature at the expense of state or government gives the state or government spiritual authority.

Feemdom to practice ones own religion is a guarentee in America. The government doesnt make those laws but rather the power of the authorities of relious deominations do therefore seperating religion from state.

Marriage is a Godly soul commitment. But too there are specific laws within its structure such as dont marry a relative who is of a certain bloodline, dont marry the same sex, dont marry children ect...

Reason its written that way...

sldunton51,

Can you back any of your argument up with any form of logic or scientific theory? You sound pretty sure of yourself.

I dont prescribe to scientific theory in spiritual matters.

The logic was the persausive essays and letters written to Madison by Jefferson in the Dumas Malone series of the life of Thomas Jefferson.

These illustrate why and how the first amendmnt was created that protect spiritual maters through denominational choice. Not state or governement.

Madison was a hard sell.

Rachael1962:

Hey, Rachel.

So, how's Naiomi?

Mainelyme

Wonderful and I came to the understanding that her husband donate 68,000 to the democratic campaign gotta love my family

So for all you out there who are using god as a crutch for your arrogant comments

try this on for size,

Its believed everyone has a "God given" soulmate,

God has already created a path for you.

If you arent born being gay then you chose your own path

therefor you are saying there is no god?

and being a catholic myself I was raised that God loves everyone equally,

that includes the gays he created.

Rachael1962,

The state doesn't care about your spiritualism... the state is not supposed to care about your spiritualism other than to insure you can have it if you want it. It doesn't affect the creation of civil law, and frankly, the liberals didn't do it (um, we've always been a secular country, that's why you can worship any freaking god you choose to, protected since day 1).

"right's of a spiritual nature" has nothing whatsoever to do with it. It's all about the treatment of citizens by a governing body.

So, once again... I ask of the only that you offer a reasonable, logical, explanation of how the realization of same sex marriage is going to hurt you, the state of Maine, or the United States of America.

And still I wait...

PS: Wile we're on the subject of Mr. Thomas Jefferson, here's my favorite Jefferson quote:

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." - Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

Rachael1962:

A woan loving her mother in law sounds kinda queer to me!

Mainelyme

Fear and reverance are not the same thing. Anyone who thinks that fear and love (reverance) are anything close to each other needs to have their head examined. Respect is more like it. Respect that your religious views have no place in our laws. I will not live in fear and I certainly will not be reverent to any deity that demands of me to fear it.

Beautiful qoute. and your right it is a civil union. Heres the quote I like.

I like what George Bush said " After more than two centuries of American jursiprudence and milennia of human experience a few judges and local authorities are prsuming to change the most fundemental istitution of civilization"

The most fundemental a few judges and local authorities. Government...Anything for a vote America sold out for trinkets and self gratification

Furthermore;

I have never in my life heard any of my Jewish friends make any kind of remark pro or con about homosexuals.

They have been so persecuted as a group and religion over the past three thousand years that they are very careful not to pass judgement on others.

It's only these newcomers to the scene who do that and, that's because they are just trying to prove themselves!

Also, the Bible says that it is a grave sin to even say the name of God.

His name being YAHWEH.

There, you've gone and made me say it!

Mainelyme

It was a "few judges and local authorities" that ended open governmental discrimination of black people. It was a "few judges and local authorities" who made interracial marriage legal... who made a woman's right to do what she feels is right with non-viable growths on her body... that made it a crime ti beat your wife and kids... and on and on and on...

The original law is from the Lord I fear him

George Bush might have said it, but he didnt write it.

I bet he doesnt even know what those words mean.

The civil law of Maine, and the United States of America is not from your lord.

And we do not fear him.

It is the few judges and local authorities that leave America open to terrorist attack the biggest threat to the security of our nation today

tell me here do you keep your copy of the protocals of the elders of zion eastcoast b?

and tedlick

Rachael1962

1962?

i've got a pair of sunglasses that are older than you are.

Come back when you're more knowlegeble and more mature and then we'll all discuss the ways of the world.

Mainelyme

Don't own a copy myself, and have not read it. Is it worth reading?

I have read the works of Alister Crowley ("The Book of the Law" is a hoot).

But if I'm serious about matters of the spirit and how they affect myself and those who share my community, I turn to the works of Joseph Campbell.

what was the third nations world conference against racism that was meant to counter blancethe G-8 summits? so the forgotten people of the world could make their voices heard amid the clamor of globalization ad international capitalism ?

Jesse Jacson went off about a 240 year old resentment for slavery skin for comensaion yet the Sudans were never mentioned

Isnt he one of your FEW JUDGES

Isn't who one of my "FEW JUDGES"

Mainley me you have no jewish friends That much I know is true!

Excuse my mistake I meant authorities

I understand and repect your studying matters of spirituality

Myself I prefer Torah for those matters

Rachael1962:

Sorry, Princess!

But, you're terribly wrong.

As Oscar Wilde once said, "I'm not young enough to know everything!"

Mainelyme

Sorry, Rachael1962, you lost me... I don't get it. If you're comparing me to Jesse Jackson, I've some bad news for you... I've never voted democrat. I won't vote democrat. I'm a former republican now registered as a Libertarian.

Though I often stand on the side of individual liberties under the government, I never vote along liberal lines.

So, here it comes again: I ask of thee only that you offer a reasonable, logical, explanation of how the realization of same sex marriage is going to hurt you, the state of Maine, or the United States of America.

Rachael1962:

Furthermore, my dear;

As Elisabeth Taylor said to Laurence Harvey in the film, "Butterfield 8."

"I've already turned down more money than you'll ever see!"

And not all of my J AP girlfriends were know it all b itches!

Mainelyme

I dont say homosexual marrigaes will hurt me. Where did I write that? I didnt write that it would hurt Maine or America. Where did I write that?

What I wroe is that my belief from what I have learned from the faith of my soul is that according to Leviticus which I do my best to live by, is homosexuality is a sin.

I said that those who are homosexual have a different process of relationship with God.

Its neither good nor bad. It is...We all have a different journey in our relationship to the lord.

One thing you did for me and I thank you is you broght me back to civil liberties...Agian I thank you for that but it doesnt change my opinion.

I understand what the has transppired within the realm of human rihts in America I have chamioned on behalf of the NAACP in New Yok I have worke d with womanwho have lved with the trauma of violence and children as well..

For me And I certainly listen to what you believe but for me homosexuality is a spiritual issue.

Gay people are born that way. I have a gay family member and I see his struggle and challanges in his relationship with God the same way I see my issues of challange in my relationship with God.

Mainely me your comment are very anti-senetic and in view of the standards of this paper please keep them to your small world cliche of other haters

Rachael1962,

The question is a general one posted to folks that use religion as a reason why same sex marriage should not be an acceptable part of civil law. I understand you've never stated those things explicitly. All the best to you my friend.

thanks to the deceased miss peabody and the hollywoods, we are now unindated with the most selfish one minded legislation, bogging down the REAL ISSUES, which affect ALL people. For that reason alone, i would not grant them a bandaid for their scratch. time for this brigade to go back where they came from, we are not all futile as miss peabody was.

Yo ucertainly dont know me James as I have no father or mother you must have mistaken me for someone else

Rachael1962,

I think it would be best for all concerned if you'd just sign off.

You're stirring up an awful lot of hate and animosity where none ever existed before.

Mainelyme

The only hate and anilmosity I am experiencing on her is coming from you Mainely me

Rachael1962

Are you sure of that?

I've always rather enjoyed arguing with Jewish girls.

As a matter of fact I almost got married to a couple of them in my time!

Manelyme

you're the idiot eastcoastB if you think people are born gay/lesbian. If you think you need to go to school to "learn" how to become gay, you need to be educated. God has absolutely nothing against a gay/lesbian, just their lifestyle.

Mainelyme if you read your Bible, which you probably can't because it sounds like you don't own one, you would know that God doesn't mention Adam & Steve, that's my point!

sldunton51,

I ask you once again:

Can you back any of your argument up with any form of logic or scientific theory? You sound pretty sure of yourself.

You seem damned sure of yourself, so... back it up!

As for "Adam & Steve", what's that got to do with civil law?

sldunton51:

I hope you can read this whether it's in your Bible or on the internet, stoopud!

If God didn't mention Steve then why do you?

A large case of wishful thinking?

Mainelyme

I hope all of you Biblical Scholars don't get too close to your screens as I'm roasting a ten pound Pork Loin and I don't want any of you to pass out from the delicious but sinful aroma emanating to you through our computers!

Mainelyme

tedlick, what argumentare you talking about? Gays & lesbians being born that way or gays/lesbians marrying? I f you have a Bible, read Mark 4:6-9. I doubt very much if you own a Bible because if you did, you would know that God created man & woman, that man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his WIFE.

sldunton51

And that's when the trouble begins!

sldunton51,

Well, both overall. You seem very confident in your argument that gays aren't born that way, and I'm looking for some form of logic, reason, or scientific theory. Animals the world over take part in homosexual encounters: are you saying someone stepped in and taught them?

Sir, I have more than one bile, thanks much. That has nothing to do with it.

The civil law of Maine and these United States of America is not based upon the bible (sigh... I'm beginning to feel like a broken record).

you people vote??? Be afraid be very afraid

your not a broken record your tryin to prve to morons what cant be proven trust me I know....Kinda like you cant teach an old dog..or who ares what scares me is that they may potentially vote!

sldunton51,

your the one who said being gay was taught so i just asked where you learned it from.

Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about

because you have nothing to back up your rambling mouth

and I am very educated I have a masters in Psychology/counseling

and could square off with you anyday.

Maybe you need to set up an appointment with me so you can talk about your feelings

and why you think so strongly against gays/lifestyle.

If not, its been a fun day making you look like a fool.

You guys have all gone around on this so many times now that you don't know whose side you're on.

Let couples who love each other get married.

As the old saying goes," Marry in haste and suffer in leisure."

Mainelyme

East coast B do you treat trauma?

“If one were to take the bible seriously one would go mad. But to take the bible seriously, one must be already mad.” ~ Aleister Crowley

Beelzebubba,

Very well said sir!

Don't think I've ever seen Crowley mentioned TWICE in one day on a BDN comment post!

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

Beezalbub I " do not to thy neihbor which thou thyself detests the rest is all commentary"

he who refuses to learn...deserves extinction

buy low sell high

Beelzebubba...If you are going to quote someone in regards to the Bible with any sort of substance then stay away from references or quotes from Idiots...this clown is noted for rebelling against any religion, was an occultist, studied torture & blood techniques (should be working at G-Bay), was involved in witchcraft (and even the witches of his time blackballed him because of his insane behavior), black magic, lived in seclusion for many years @ Loch Ness....oh well enough said, so much for your Quote....

There was a farmer. He looked across his land and saw how beautiful it was. The fields were lush with vegetables. The streams water was clean and refreshing. The cows had plenty of green grass to graze on. When one field was eaten bare they moved to the next. Their milk was plenty and their young were healthy.

The farmer looked by the brook and thought to himself, I will plant an apple orchard. So the farmer prepared the soil. First he loosened the soil and pulled out the large rocks. Then he placed the young apple trees in the soil and gently pressed the soil around the roots making sure the roots would have a solid footing to hold on as the tree got taller and taller and bigger and bigger.

The years went by. Year after the year the farmer walked his orchard. The farmer carefully pruned the branches. The farmer made sure they were well watered and protected from the insects and the wind. Year after year he waited for fruit. Finally it was spring. The gentle spring rains and the cool breezes burst open the buds brought forward not only leaves but blossoms. The farmer was so excited he walked through the orchard laughing and dancing. But then...in the middle of the orchard was this one lone tree. The leaves had all dried and had begun to fall to the ground. The blossoms were brown and ugly. The bugs had come in and chewed the bark. The insects had made their home in his tree.

He became worried and ran through the orchard looking very closely at each and every tree and each and every branch. I must not let this happen he said. It will destroy my orchard.

The farmer ran to his barn and pulled out his ax and chopped the tree. The farmer pulled sickened tree away from the orchard. He built a huge fire. The flames shot high and the coals were hot and ready. The farmer taking each branch, each limb, each twig, each leaf, each dried up blossom and threw it all in the flames.

A good farmer is wise and knows how to take care of his orchard.

EXCUSE ME ! I'm NOT a Male, I'm a female and very happily married to the same man for 35 years! okay I should have said being gay/ lesbian is a lifestyle they take up. I never said the civil law of Maine and the United States was based on the Bible. I'm tired of arguing with you as wel as EastCoastB, AMHI4ME and Mainelyme. As far as you go EastCoastB, I could care less if you have a Masters in Psychology/ counseling. If I need anyone to talk to about my feelings, I will talk to my Pastor. I don't need an appointment to talk with him. thank you. As far as you making me look like a fool, I think not.

The radical islamic fundementalists beleive in God and then strap bombs to their children and they blow up masses in his name does ths make them Godly or spiritual?

The Islamic radical fundamentilists say if you you killl Jews God will reward you does ts make them Godly?

the fundementalist groups within eurpore the fastest growing anti_semitic group in the world they beleve in God does thi smake them Godly? Does this make them spiritual?

The europeon groups who are anti-semetic are from many denominations they believe in God they use his name to slander and murder groups of Jews but because they use the name of God are they Goly?

whos Godly? what constitutes that? a set of beliefs? Cmon! a set of values? The hammas believes ( through the protocals of the elders of zion)that if they kill Jews God will reward them in heaven with the marriage to 72 virgins is this Godly?

So if you adhere to one denomination does that mean youb are somehow right? That you have a gaurentee to something? Heaven? Hell? ( Where by the way if it exsists I will be in good company) but what constitutes Godliness?

I am not born again I dont prostellize I dont have to I took the law the others didnt want it...but...does that make me more Godly?

im going to the gym this is too unGodly

Sharon(of little)Faith

We are not atheists we believe in God.

Just not your God!

Mainelyme

sldunton51:

Go ahead, take it to your pastor because I'm sick of reading what you think, too!

Mainelyme

Elizabethann:

And God does take good care of his orchard, and you're the thanks he gets for it?

Mainelyme

Mainelyme, I'm sick of reading what you think too.

And the posts are saying homosexual marriage isnt about God! I dis-bunk that theory!

If I want spiritual guidance I speak to a spritual leader not Oprah..A pastor or a rabbi or a minister or preist but I aint gonna get it from Mainelyme...

Just a few of my thoughts on the whole issue:

I'm a gay father who has come out to his children ,family, ex wife and friends. They are all fine with the way I live my life and accept me for the person I am not for the way I choose to live my life. My ex wife and I are and have been very good friends since we divorced, and my children don't think of me any different as they did when I was with their mother. If same sex couples want to get married then who’s business is it anyway but the two people involved. If you were to put a red dot on every male and females forehead that has experimented with the same sex even though they would not admit it, it would look like we were living in India instead of the United States of America. I went through most of my years growing up and dated several woman, I have also had many experiences with many supposedly straight male friends who are married now and have kids of their own that approached me about what they call playing together on the down low. I was molested as a child by a male relative who is now married and has kids of his own. I believe that it is a choice just like anything in this world, and if a person chooses to try something new or different then it is their choice and nobody else’s business what people do behind closed doors. It is their life to do with what they want.

I am currently with another gay father going on 5 years now who has 2 kids and they treat me like an added parent to their family as do mine to my partner, we are all there for each other no matter what or how we live our life. To all the people that need to recite the bible, that is your choice to follow the scriptures and practice your chosen religion ,but others may not feel the same way that you do. I feel that if I'm a caring ,loving, person that don't criticize others for what they feel in their hearts and souls, or how they live their life then god is not going to cast me into the fires of hell for being a decent caring loving parent, friend and partner whether it be to a man or woman. God knows what kind of person I am and if I’m going to burn in hell for being with a man then the population in hell is going to be astronomical because there isn't only the gay lifestyle in this world, there are bisexuals, transsexuals ,homosexuals ,transsexuals, men that are married on the down low, lesbians, people into fetishes. Married couples where the woman is bisexual and they have another girl join in on their sex, or where the husband is bisexual and they ask another guy to join them in sex. All I care about is my life ,the people in my life and thankful that I have such loving, caring supportive people in my life that except me for me and not the way I live my life. My religion is I believe in god, have trust in god, and if he doesn't accept me when it comes time then so be it, I will have at least loved, been loved, treated people with respect ,and been there for people in need when they needed help and been happy with my life and the choices I have made. Now all of you against me and or the way I live my life, after I have opened up to you It is my life not yours and live your life to the fullest, because you only have one life, one shot at being happy and it is your life nobody else to tell you how to live it.

I agree except for the molestation by choice part.

I was molested. It wasnt by choice and the act destroyed me.

Mainelyme..if you are the profile of the gay community, then we as Americans should fight this movement with everything we've got. Especially with prayer. You have shown me a side I really don't know existed. Thanks for helping me to understand.

gaymainefather, thank you for your sharing so openly. I for one believe your feelings towards other men is strong, I'm not going to even try to deny that nor am I going to tell you that you just need to ignore it and "just stop being gay". You can't any more than I can stop being a strait man. This is such a sensitive issue and hot button. I'm not going to pretend to understand why you are gay. I don't think either one of us really has the answer. I have my own opinions as to why but it's nothing more than my opinion, so lets leave it at that. The bible says homosexuality is a sin. I believe the bible. That being said I also believe its no more serious than any other sin. Sin is sin, whether its cheating,drunkeness, lying, adultery etc.. God doesn't grade our sins on a graph like we tend to do. The big problem I have is when people try to call a sinful behavior right, whether it be lying, cheating, adultery etc... God isn't going to send you to hell because your homosexual, You are sending yourself to hell because you refuse to accept Jesus as your Lord and savior. Has nothing to do with being a nice person which you might very well be. Does this make sense so far?

, Elizabethann:

Would you like it if I told a long rambling story that culminanted in God's uprooting all the religious zealots and throwing them on a huge bon fire?

I believe not.

Mainelyme

4Him2day

Re: Your response to gay mainefather;

You haven't made any sense at all so far

What makes you think you can do it now?

Why don't you just let things be and; mind your own business?

Mainelyme

gaymainefather: I do not think you are going to hell!! And I would worry much more about the child molesters, perverts, drunks, liars, cheaters, than a gay man or woman....good grief....you will be fine...The best.....

mykso57 :

The only debate I have with your comment is about you saying same sex couples should not be able to adopt children.

From the articles lately in the paper about fathers throwing infants down stairs and killing the child, to parents discarding their infant like garbage and hiding the body, shaking baby syndrome due to parents brutal force. I would rather see a child have a chance in life with 2 loving, caring individuals whether it be two men or two woman who take care, love unconditionally, and give them a chance at the life they deserve ,than to be with a mother and father who end their little life when it was the parents choice to bring them into this world in the first place. The children had no choice to be brought into this world just to have their life taken away by the supposed parents who created them.

As far as the children having to deal with having two fathers or two mothers, you would be surprised at how they adjust and deal with it. I know of at least 6 same sex couples that have children including myself, between me and my partner we have 4 children and they would not want it any other way and the same goes for the other same sex couples children. As a matter of fact their friends at school think that it's pretty neat having 2 fathers and they have their friends over for sleepovers, and the parents aren't bothered by them coming over one bit, they said that they have allot of admiration for us to be raising such well behaved ,polite, caring children and have no problem with our lifestyle. I do think that your comment was well written and respect your views just the same.

Rachael1962:

No, honey you're not going to get it from Mainelyme.

Mainelyme continues to save it for a special occasion!

Mainelyme

sldunton51:

No, you're just sick!

God will accept you gaymainefather: As for the serial killer somewhere on death row....who thinks all he has to do is be "born again" on his deathbed before he dies......let those who want to believe that be comfortable in their thinking.....many of us have a more loving God than that.......God will not choose the serial killer over someone who has "chosen" a gay orientation ....... many many Christians do not believe that....I am not saying He might choose both.......and our ministers are God loving people....and know God gave human beings a brain.....to reason with, among other things....

mainelyme I wouldnt want anything you have ( its probablly contagious anyhow especially if you are hanging with chrstine) Elizabethann I agree totally I!

4Him2day:

I was raised in a very religious family I believe in god, and have faith in god, accept god and trust god to do what is best for me in the end of my life.

I also never said that my sinful behavior is right, I’m no better than anybody else that sins. I can guarantee that everybody in their lifetime has sinned at one time or another, and I don't believe for a minute that everybody is going to hell because of the sins they have committed. Jesus died for our sins and don't believe for a minute that he will cast everybody to hell for committing sins throughout their lifetime.

so happy not to believe in hell

Rachael1962:

Sweetie, the only Christine I know of right now is a big time New York City Politician and I'm trying like hell to get her off the NYC Council.

Do you know something that I don't?

I'll admit that all of my girl friends haven't been named Shirley or Michelle, and as far as anything I've got being contageous goes I haven't anything like that.

I'd be glad to give you a couple of my recent heart attacks but, only if in your case they prove to be fatal!

Mainelyme

Maybe I misunderstood your post. You seemed to come across saying it was right, one big happy family?

4Him2day:

I didn't say it was right, but we are one big happy family. People except us for who we are and not for what we do or how we live our life. That’s the beautiful part of my life and family, and friends. I am fortunate to have family, friends and children that love ,respect, and don't judge the way we live our life not the way others think we should.

gaymainefather, then are you saying its wrong?

"Intolerance is evidence of impotence.” ~ Aleister Crowley

Bible burnin', my place, midnight...BYOB

4Him2day

No, a sshole.

He's saying that you're wrong!

He said we are all sinners....and that he believed in God....and Jesus.......and that he has a happy and supportive family life...be glad for him!! Why the continual barrage....it is not for us to judge......people need to allow others their privacy..especially in these matters..... I might feel threatened by some things that go on in this country, but certainly not about a man who is raising his children to be good people.....and bet they will be compassionate too.........and grow up to be compassionate adults...good thing.....don't believe they will go around judging others....

4him2day-in regards to your post earlier today- thank you for the clarification.

4Him2day:

What I am trying to get across is that whether it is wrong or right in the eyes of other people, It is my life and as long as I am happy and the people in my life accept me for who I am not for the way I live my life, it is my choice not nobody else’s. I do not judge, or criticize other peoples beliefs or tell them what is wrong or right in their life or how to live their life ,and expect to be able to live my life the way I choose whether it be right or wrong.

Just like I would not judge the way you choose to live your life, it's your business not anybody else’s whether right or wrong.

kieara, you made my day, thanks. Your not alone, I know exactly how you feel.

Rachael1962:

No self respecting Princess spells the way you do.

You've got to be Kat of Bangor!

I just knew there was something that wasn't quite Kosher!

Mainelyme

gaymainefather, I'll ask you again, because the answer is important. In your inner most being do you believe the homosexual lifestyle is right or wrong?

4Him2day :

Why is the answer important to you?

Who is it important to?

It is my life.

The only one that matters here is myself and how I feel, how comfortable I am in my own skin, whether or not I am happy with my life and choices I have made. I am very happy at who I am and the person I have become to really know deep down inside. I am a homosexual who has a loving partner and we have 4 loving and cared for children and I am very happy with my lifestyle and it is right for me. The homosexual lifestyle may not be right for others but as for me (Yes) it is right for me and I believe that from my inner most being .

Anything else you want to question me about?

Mainely me you now christine because you know naomi and as far as my spelling Mr editor...who cares?

no I aint spelt it rite

gaymainefather:

Ignore him and sooner or later they'll carry him away.

He sounds very much like a persistent poster from Millinocket who drove everyone nuts with his same question all the time.

I wish the News would verify us by our credit cards, at least it would weed out the padded cell cases.

I think it's admirable that you came out to your family and loved ones, and of course they didn't lose any of the love that they have always felt for you.

If more people would admit to what they are and why they are so interested in damning this subject while obviously fishing for their own personal answers then this blog would be un necessary and everyone could live in peace with their own lives!

My best to your family and friends, and naturally to you.

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

New York, New York

My brother is gay and he says he gets homophobic sometimes but I gotta show him this board hen he can know what true homophobia really is!

I am not damming anyone I think humans are rare breed straight or gay or whatever You are the dammer Mainelyme me me m eme

Rachael1962:

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Have another one.

Are you Eunice of Corea?

Mainelyme

obviously because in order to know what I am talking about you would need to be able to step outside of yourself

your self centeredness and self rightousness and need to be better than is disgusting.

Here's some information to get you all thinking.

When a child is born blind, or perhaps with a withered arm/hand, or is unable to learn like his peers... was he born like that or does he choose to be that way. There are many factors that play a role in why we are born with certain features, gifted with a high IQ or perhaps was born without sight.

Think about this... I happen to be extremely heterosexual... I can't even begin to imagine being with someone of the same sex however, a friend of mine who is male, is totally into men and he can't imagine being with a woman... he tried, it grossed him out completely. I have to admit that if I was forced to be with an individual of my gender, it would gross me out! I can't help who I'm attracted to any more than he can. What makes him wrong and me right? Nothing of our choosing... trust me. There are all kinds of biological, hormonal and genetic makeups within all of us, which in turn makes us desire different things. Ones taste for a nice ripe tart green apple might be very appealing, while to another... the ripe tart green apple is repulsive. We are all unique in our own way and if we were all the same... wouldn't life be boring?

I believe that most of the Gay community is born gay... Yes, there are some who choose to "experiment" with those of their own sex, only to find out that they were mistaken. One reader/commenter said: Why would someone choose to be Gay, look at all they have to go through and she/he makes a very good point. Yes, they are bashed, hated, tortured, called names, and run out of neighborhoods and schools. They don't want to be that way... their genetic makeup plays a role in who they are attracted to.

There have been several studies done on homosexual men and women... and instead of having an XX gene (a women) or an XY gene (a man)... there appears to be a genetic mix up which makes a woman have XY genes which actually makes her a male and the man may have XX genes which makes him a woman, which certainly would direct the brain toward liking a particular gender. For those of you who have never worked in a hospital, did you know that 1 in 4,500 babies is born with ambiguous genitalia and sometimes the genitalia doesn't match the reproductive organs that are inside that child? The body is complex, hormones are complex and genes are complex and most of the time (the exception being experimental homosexuality), individuals can't help who they're attracted to any more than you can help it if you were born with blue, green or brown eyes.

Being born Gay is not a "fault", it's simply a mix up in the genes and or hormones in the body. Can any of you help it if you get breast cancer, thyroid problems, have large breasts, small breasts or large or small genitalia? We also must look at the different chemicals, pesticides and hormones that we are subjected to throughout our daily lives which can cause genetic and hormonal changes in our bodies... which in turn can cause problems with the unborn fetus. There have been many studies done concerning these issues... so use your computers... google: XX XY Genes and see what you come up with, I think you'll find some interesting information that will make you think twice about the gay community.

One last comment and I'll go on about my business.... Let's say the tables were turned and we (the heterosexual community), were told we had to change our preference... how would you feel about that... would you be able to change the way you feel about the opposite sex and turn toward someone of your own gender? I don't believe you'd be comfortable doing that... well... it's the same for the gay community, they can't help who they are attracted to any more than you or I can.

Rachael1962

The Raccoons in Central Park all love me!

They were telling me so the other night.

Mainelyme

"REINCARNATION"

Mainelyme

For those of you who decided to take another look at the "Gay Factor" by way of genetics etc... I'd like to hear your response.

See my post (6 up) from here.

Amazed,you said that very well. But I'm one of those people that beleaves if a child is born with a penis then its a boy,and if it is born with a vagina,it is a girl. The chromazone's are ither male or female that make you the sex that you are born.Therfore if you are born male, at pubity testosterone kicks in and you like women.,And if you are born female, estrogen kicks in and you like men . Men and women have some of both,if there is a unbalance of one or the other then its a medical problem,and one should go to the doctor. I beleave that homosexualism is a learned behavior. Im not gay, but when I was in my early twentys I traveled alot . More then once gay men tryed to have sex with me,of course it scared the crap out of me! I was traumatized to say the least, I didn't ask for the passes from these gay men. I beleave they saw a young man the they thought they could have there way with, it didnt work out there way. Im straght 8 and always have been. I have to say that they also try to recruit.

amazed, I believe I said alot of the very same things you have just said. What if I have a propensity to cheat on my wife, or to steal, or lie etc.. the feeling could be very strong and I also could believe that unless I acted on it my life wouldn't be complete. Is that the litmus test (our feelings) that we should use? Shouldn't our morality come from something much bigger than ourselves? If we just went around doing what we thought was right, this world would be total chaos, which is exactly what's happening today. I believe the bible to be Gods word to us to guide us thru this life. I believe it to be absolutely true. If its absolutely true for me it has to be absolutely true for everyone, otherwise its nothing more than one of many books to choose from. To say its great for you that you believe it but its not for me is patronizing to say the least. It has to be true for both of us otherwise its not true at all. To go around saying i'm accepting of all faiths, what ever that happens to be is the saddest person out there. Thats not true faith. Sounds great to most everyone out there, its the worlds belief system, not the God of the bible. JOB 28 vs 28 says: And to man, He said, behold the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom. To depart from evil is understanding

sharon, thank you for your encouragement to me yesterday.

Mainelyme :

I would like to acknowledge that I read your comments and thank you for being supportive in my choice to live my life the way I choose.

The world would be a better place if people would let people live their lives the way they choose without being so judgmental. The people that are reciting scriptures and reciting the bible have no right to comment on how people choose to live their life. They are the reason that we have these holy wars, and I'm sure that god would not want to see the hate coming from the people that are supposed to worship him and be his followers.

gaymainefather, please don't go down that road, there was no hate in what I said. I've been nothing but respectful to you. Go back and read mainelyme's post and say again where the hate is coming from. Disagreeing with you is not hate. You were the one that brought up God, just what God are you referring to?

Again;

"REINCARNATION"

It really does make a lot of life's questions fall into line.

Do yourselves a favor and read up on it.

I really can't remember the statistics but, a goodly part of the world's population adheres to its belief.

Mainelyme

4Him2day

Take a break!

Mainelyme

If there was a road that lead to a cliff and you saw someone enjoying themselves driving down that road, would you tell them or would you just say "hey have a great ride"? Which would be more loving?

Iseenow: When I talked about the 1 in 4500 babies that are born each year with ambiguous genitalia (genitalia which looks like one gender, but is not) then that wouldn't be something that one could help. Some homosexual children know from the time they are 5, 6 or 7 years of age, that they are attracted to the same gender.. at that point, most of them have not learned their behavior from anyone. I know of several cases where children were not subjected in any way, shape or form to any homosexuality in their childhood years, but were attracted to their own gender. As far as you traveling and being traumatized by homosexual men, well... understand that there are a lot of "creeps" out there.

As for 4Him2day: Hormonal imbalances can cause people to do an array of different things they wouldn't normally do and being told you are of one gender, when in actuality, you are not... is another. I believe in God and in the Bible, and utilize both as my "moral compass" shall we say. However, homosexuals suffer greatly, most try to live a heterosexual life and end up very depressed, some even suicidal when they try to live the lives we impose upon them. I certainly did not mean to patronize anyone, but rather would like for you all to understand what the studies have found. I feel it's only fair to educate others of the findings. This is not to say that I believe people should go out and "screw" around with whomever they want, whenever they want. Monogomus relationships, whether homosexual or heterosexual, are very important. We do have a right to encourage everyone to have a moral compass on many levels, but perhaps we've been too harsh on the Gay community.

It has been said: "Do not judge, lest you be judged" and in the end God judges everyone... He's the final judge.

4Him2day :

You asked :

I'll ask you again, because the answer is important.

In your inner most being do you believe the homosexual lifestyle is right or wrong?

My answer to you was:

It is my life.

The only one that matters here is myself and how I feel, how comfortable I am in my own skin, whether or not I am happy with my life and choices I have made. I am very happy at who I am and the person I have become to really know deep down inside. I am a homosexual who has a loving partner and we have 4 loving and cared for children and I am very happy with my lifestyle and it is right for me. The homosexual lifestyle may not be right for others but as for me (Yes) it is right for me and I believe that from my inner most being .

I asked you:

Why is the answer important to you?

Who is it important to?

you never replied

Yes true faith and Christianity is accepting of all faiths and religions......there is no doubt about it.....and being a fundamentalist Christian sure does not make you the only true Christians....you are sadly mistaken....some Catholics believe (or their church has taught them) that they are the only true church....I may not believe that , but they do.....to have this presumption that only you and those that think like you and go to the church (or type of church) you go to, is the only true one, is so false.....you do not have some direct line to God anymore than anyone else does......have you ever thought of being a preacher.....it seems like that is something you might like to do......or teach Sunday School or something like that..

Many of the gay people that I've known have been very loving, kind, generous, helpful, spiritual and would be there for me in a second if I needed them vs my Christian friends, who are always busy and don't have time to even drop a card in the mail when someone is sick or in need. I'm not saying all gays are perfect people and I'm not saying all Christians are horrible... I'm just saying that there is an imbalance and many Christians aren't very tolerant and leave little room for the scientific reasons why one may be gay. Education is imperative here.

amazed, you say you believe in God and the bible..... but studies have shown.... You can't have it both ways. I'll take Gods wisdom over scientific studies everytime. We have been harsh on the gay community, I agree. I've tried to be respectful here.

gaymainefather, your answer is more important to to you than me. I think I have replied in my post to amazed, it was also meant for you, should have put your name there too, sorry

Amazed: I am amazed (in a good way) with your post of 9:33 PM......truly amazed. You sound like a moral person to me......and one who truly believes in God. Some here cannot handle the thought that sometimes things go awry in the human body......well, they do know that....look how some people are born with a genetic disease(i.e. Down's Syndrome,etc.).....right from the start......they do not choose this , at say age 18......where are people's minds?!....our God-given minds......that is why He gave humans minds......so they could reason and think......knowledge can be a good thing.....why are some of these folks so afraid of knowledge.....I do not believe we are supposed to be narrow - minded.....and expect everyone to be the same.....and think the same...and believe the same.......they better not go to college then...because that is a place one goes to challenge themselves....learn new knowledge......different philosophies,etc......broaden one's horizons......the Christian Church I attend is welcoming to all... and does not try to "shield" its parishoners from other faiths and churches.......and does not have the need to boast or try to bolster its standing by denigrating others or other faiths......because that sure is not the Christian way....

Why is it that when one can "see" a problem... (ie: broken leg), then they understand... but when the problem is "not seen", it doesn't exist? This is so disheartening.

4Him2day... I'm not having it both ways... we are all God's people. He loves all of us and I pray to God you never have a grandchild born with a genetic defect or one who "comes out of the closet". It's our duty to have an open mind and let God be the judge. I respect your views, but as always... we are not clones. :)

Chersully2000: Thank you for your comment... I will take that as a compliment. I am a moral person and I believe in God however, I know the human body is complex and things do go awry. We are supposed to be knowledgeable and forgiving... Obviously you are very intelligent and understand the complex issues that others find difficult to process which is perhaps no fault of their own.

Everyone who does not want same gender people to marry VOTE NO NEVER IN MAINE ALSO LETS VOTE OUT SEN DENNIS DAMON OUT OF OFFICE AS SOON AS WE CAN. VOTE NO NEVER IN MAINE

When did I ever say the problem didn't exist, I have said just the opposite. I too have gay relatives, kind, loving, enjoy being with them. Thats not the issue at hand here. I get accused of hate for not agreeing, Lord knows i've tried, goodnight

4Him2day: I didn't accuse you of hating anyone and it's ok if you don't agree with me. Like I said: We are not clones. I just know that there are a lot of people who are not aware of the genetic testing that goes on, which has revealed many answers to the XX and XY questions.

"We've been over this before"...I am not used to being addressed that way! You think your way.. I will think mine. You have no idea about how strong my faith is or is not......you do not know what is in my heart and soul.

4Him2day: No, I do not agree with everything that you say, but you are not hateful, I do not believe.....sometimes it gets frustrating when others think differently....but that is not a bad thing......sometimes people get defensive, or feel insecure, when others think differently than they do.....I am not speaking of you......I have witnessed that those who are strong in their beliefs, and who are emotionally strong inside, do not feel at all "threatened" or upset when others see things differently than they do.....just part of being mature adults, I imagine....

I like the old saying: "Never judge a book by it's cover". Things are not always as they "appear".

4Him2day :

The reason I asked who it was important to, and yes the answer should be me, after all it is my life.

You just come across judgmental , sorry maybe I took the context of your comment wrong. Seems awful funny that others would comment about your comments replying back to me. I am very happy with my life, I'm very happy that our kids are excelling in school and in sports, I have been in a 5 year monogamous relationship, both of our families even have get together. Of coerce there is drama but what family doesn't.

Life is what you make of it, and I will do my best to live life to the fullest and always be there for our kids and enjoy the time I have left.

SharonFaith: What does God say about judging others?

GayMaineFather: Bless you for the life you live. There are many (married) fathers and mothers, who are not in manogomus relationships and don't give a darn about family or their children. I commend you for your monogamy as well as your love for family.

The only way is to vote against it. NO NEVER IN MAINE They don,t care about God or they would not want same sex marriage. So if you don,t want this law passed vote no NEVER IN MAINE.

Just so you all know... I'm not angry with anyone... I just like to have honest, intelligent, fact finding debates.

Everyone has something good to bring to the table and this is the perfect place to lay it all out and debate it.

Amazed: Amen!!

mousehunt

You really think that people are going to listen to a mouse like you?

Come next Thanksgiving when Santa Claus arrives at Macy's I'm going right over there and I'm going to tell him all about you.

You've had it mouse-No more presents for XMas!

Mainelyme

SharonFaith: You've still not given any Bible passages about what God says about judging others.

mousehunt

See what I mean?

You've even taken Christ out of Christmas!

Mainelyme

I'm with you mouse....I don't think you would get a good profile of how people would vote by reading this comment section. Look at California..one of the.most liberal state in the country and they voted it down.

1 Corinthians 4:5

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

James 4:11-12

11... Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it... 12... who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 14:10,13

10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 13...therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another...

Romans 2:1

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Matthew 7:1-2

1Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

This came up for a vote in the 1990's too.

Wasn't there one state that passed this law... and then revoked it?

I have been reading everyone's thoughts and it is pretty simple, when it comes to a vote...VOTE! I live my life with THY SHALL NOT JUDGE and I raise my children in the same morale. Many profess to read the Bible and use what they choose..If you choose to follow the Lord'd words...Follow them all!

Don't come on these posts with hypocracy and post your bible babbling when you cannot follow the words of the Lord in a whole! You people who come on here with THE BIBLE SAYS THIS THE BIBLE SAYS THAT...Try the following!! THY SHALL NOT JUDGE FOR YOU YOURSELF WILL BE JUDGED THE SAME AS YOU JUDGED OTHERS!

If you don't like it, vote against it, if you are ok with it, vote for it! Isn't that pretty simple? If you truly believe that homosexuality is a sin and they will be doomed to hell, well you should also know that your behaviors are far from holy.

I personally have mny homosexual friends, I love them dearly. I was raised in the Lord's word and I believe in the words of the Lord, BUT, it's not my place to pass judgment, it's not my place to doom to hell. I love everyone in my life EQUALLY, I teach my children the same. I beleive in my heart that my gay friends are some of the most wonderful people I have ever been blessed with in my life and it is up to the almighty above, not me or you.

onlineopinion: I agree.....just let those who feel that way , vote against it....exactly!! And I am with you.....the gay people I have known (and I have not known tons but enough to know something) are the greatest people...and you are so right....is is "up to the almighty above".....thanks so much for reminding us and writing that.

We are all God's children.

Amazed: And btw.....I continually to be amazed by some of the posts on this site.....astounded.....

Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it......who are you to judge your neighbor? James 4:11-12

It bears repeating!!

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." Romans 2:1

Do no judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2

Once again..it bears repeating....

Elizabethann

According to what took place in California you and the mouse will soon be Mormons in Maine,too!

You'll love their Angel Moroni.

He's a trumpet player, too!

Mainelyme

MainelyMe, PLEEZE do not mistake me for or compare me to Rachael1962! I take it as an insult11

Well, at least we have our bibles open, that can never hurt. Amazed, I will state again you can't have it both ways. See how a little twist has been put on this dialogue, it now turned into not judging and loving them as they are, with bible quotes to boot that have been taken out of text. There's a good rule of thumb to use called 20/20. Read 20 verses before and 20 verses after your bible passage and it will most of the time give you a clear understanding of it's meaning. We make judgements every day whether we like to admit it or not. We are also told to use great discernment when doing so. And also warned to not pass judgement on others and be practicing the very same things, that would be total hypocricy. Jesus had very strong words to say about hypocrites. I have clearly stated and will say again, I love my gay relatives, they are nice people, loving, caring and responsible citizens. That's not what this is about. We are commanded by God to try and restore a brother who is is sin and to do it in gentleness, and yes to make sure we are not guilty of doing the same thing. If we are commanded by God to do this, how could we unless we made some sort of judgement? Now about you having it both ways, you claim to believe the bible, the bible clearly says several times that homosexuality is a sin. God does not make mistakes. You seem to imply that there's something gone awry in a homosexual and if God only knew that from the beginning he wouldn't have been so harsh in his words. May I suggest you read chapter 38 of the book of JOB, before you bring your scientific evidence before God.

I heard a pastor tell of how he was called to the hospital to speak to a patient. This patient was living the homosexual lifestyle and found himself dying of aids. He was close to death and broke down in front of the pastor saying how sorry he was for falling into that life and believing it's lies. He readily admitted it was a bunch of lies, and asked this pastor if it was possible for God to forgive him. He was so ashamed and broken. The story of course ended with him accepting Gods forgiveness and repenting for it. He also pleaded with his partner who later came in to do the same. Amazed, you sound very caring and loving, it comes across on the page, but you are walking a very slippery slope. There has been much talk of God in this, but lets not forget evil, its real and it exists.

Mainelyme ...you are such a child..You are trying to convert us to your beliefs. My faith in God has been tested many times. I truely believe in God's laws because overtime they have been tested and they have been found to keep societies, persons and families intact. God does not fail us ...we fail Him and each other. The life style you choose is none of my business. You can live any way you want. When I pray, I pray for the whole world that we grow to love God, know God and serve God. Do I hate ...no I don't Am I a bigot? Absolutely not. But to encourage and change laws to promote an unhealthy lifestyle is not a christian thing to do. I will never do that and I will do what I can to stop that from happening in any way that I can.

By the way....I am not Mormon...I'm Catholic...peace

People,

WHY does this topic always turn into a religious festival?

We are not debating your religious views. We KNOW your religious views.

Your religious views have NO bearing on the civil law of Maine or the United States of America.

Please... if you don't want legislation offering equal treatment of homosexuals by the government, then use reason and logic to fight your battle.

Using your doctrine will not work (thankfully).

SharonFaith,

I've stated this a dozen times already, but I'll point it out to you again. Mr. Adams may WISH to force christianity into our civil law, but the facts are irrefutable that the opposite is true:

* our constitution guarantees us the right to worship any god we choose, going against the first of the 10 commandments

* lying is a sin according to your religion, but is not a crime unless done under oath

* adultery is a sin under your religion, but is not a crime

* sodomy is against your religion but is not a crime

* idol worship is a sin according to your religion, but is not a crime

* tithing a portion of your income to god is a mandate of your religion, but is not a mandate of our civil law

* your religious text says it's ok to hold slaves, but that is against the law of our land

* working on the sabbath is against the commandments of your god, but it is not against the law in our country

* coveting what others have is a sin according to your god's commandments, but it is not a crime in this country

And on and on and on and on...

Yes, some of the Founding Fathers had faith, and yes, some of them wanted to intertwine that faith into our civil structures: but it has not happened: it did not happen: and it won't happen (Allah be praised).

So please, stop stop STOP trying to use your religious dogma as an argument against proposed changes to civil law.

It doesn't work.

Ive said it before...once they legalize same sex marriage...Im starting my crusade to marry two women assuming they will marry each other of course. I will never leave the house and praise Obamarama frequently; gas is up 13 cents since he took over.

Tedlick, we mustn't forget abortion in your mix, its being done and it is legal so it must be OK. After all man has voted it to be all right, so it must be so. The bible does indeed show that you will win this battle of removing God from your midst, no longer acknowledging Him. But in the end you will lose the war. Be very careful of the ladder you climb in life, you may find out it was leaning on the wrong wall all along.

4Him2day,

Yes... feel free to add abortion to your mix of "religious notions that are not laws"! It is not against the law of our lands, and frankly, a nonviable growth on some woman's uterine wall is something she can do with as she pleases. It's none of your business.

Ahh yes, a nonviable growth, we are at opposite ends of the spectrum aren't we. The battle rages on. And I beg to differ, it is my business!

Man! No wonder the christian church is losing followers.

Enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, AND THERE ARE FEW WHO FIND IT.

"Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus" (Phil. 1:1).

The metaphor of Christians as slaves to Christ is common in Paul's writings. It is one his readers would have readily understood because of the prevalence of slavery in the Roman Empire.

Peter, James, John, and Jude used the same metaphor of their own ministries, as did Jesus in Mark 10:45: "The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." In Philippians 2:7 Paul refers to Christ as a bond-servant who set aside the glory He was due and humbled Himself to the point of death.

The Greek word translated "bond-servant" in Philippians 1:1 was commonly used of those who, out of devotion to their masters, chose to remain as slaves when having the opportunity to be released. They were also known as love slaves because they served out of love, not compulsion.

That is a beautiful picture of the believer. We are God's bond-servants (Rev. 1:1), having been freed from sin and enslaved to Him (Rom. 6:22).

While slavery brings to mind deprivation and inhumane treatment of one's fellow man, slaves in the Roman Empire usually were treated with dignity and respect. Although most had no personal possessions, their masters supplied everything they needed for life and health. Additionally, many were entrusted with significant responsibilities in their master's home.

A disobedient or self-willed slave was of no use to his master, but faithful slaves, who set aside their personal interests to accomplish their master's will, were a precious possession.

Jesus said, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to accomplish His work" (John 4:34). As God's bond-servant that should be your goal as well. Be faithful so God can use you mightily.

Jesus wept. (John 11:35)

From which "version" of the bible are we stealing quotes?

Tedlick debating with these people is like trying to negotiate with the hammas.

Better to make yourself and nice meal turn on some good tunes and read an ispiring positive article.

You will feel more refreashed This I know from experience!

LOL !

Tedlick, I don't exactly know why, but my heart aches for you right now. please, you sound so much like the prodical son.

I also left the church too, I know what you're feeling

Katofbangor as far as taking me to be an insult.. who are you and how do you know me? ..You know me well?

You are there when I minister to those who are oppressed?

You are there when I hold the sick in my arms?

You are there when I advocate for the abused and molested and defamed?

You couldnt possibly be like me Katobangor...You dont have the ability!

Tedlick, God has a plan for you!! please believe that

Thanks Rachael1962... perhaps that is what I should do.

Logic and reason seem to have very little place here.

As for a plan for me: I really wish he wouldn't put demands on my time. Crimps my style.

According to a BARNA poll Evangelical Christians had a higher divorce rate than atheists...so why are they so up and arms about gays? To take the heat off of their own miserable lives...

Hopefully gay marriage will be legal and the Evangelicals spouting their version of "morality" can go back under their rocks.

No Rachael1962, I don't know nor do I want to know you(I hear harps and violins playing in the background as I read your posting) Glad to hear you do such good work, keep it up. I am sure there is help for you out there as well.

Let's see....let's pick and choose which passages of the Bible we read and emphasize!!

And that was one person who felt that way.....dying in the hospital.....you cannot speak for all....for what is in everyone's heart and soul......you have no idea the strength of other's religious beliefs...no idea.....you do not know how they pray....when they pray....where they pray.....how they worship.....how they truly believe.....you may think you do....but you do not....

KatoBangor It is better to comfort than to be comforted

Tedlick please go to this site, http://christiananswers.net/love/story-f-homosexuality1.html

4Him2day,

No. Fill these comment forums with whatever you like, but you'll not get me to read that kind of crap. I'm a secular being... I see nothing wrong with homosexuality, bisexuality... any sexuality that's not victimization. I do not by into the christian concepts of good and evil, right and wrong. "Sin" does not exist as far as I'm concerned.

Keep that for someone who needs guidance... I'm perfectly at peace with my life as it is.

None of this changes the facts: your religion has no sway over civil law... none whatsoever.

Yes, it is the sexuality of victimization that is the real evil.....even see it in a lot of heterosexual marriages,etc......where is more outrage about that??!! I hear you.....

so you don't believe evil exists?

Heres the deal

If soneone is gay are they less human?

Do they have less rights?

Is it the rights and responsiblity of the government to have a vote about that group of peoples rights?

Yes if there is a legal process in which this group of people has both set their greivnces and met the conditions to have that vote put in place because in America even gay people are We the people...

Therefore if Adam wants to marry Steve and they get the vote then you dont have to dance at their wedding...If you dont chose to

I just named an evil....above....and there are lots more where that one came from.......so do not question if I believe in evil....I do....but I may see it in many more and different places than you do...but perhaps that comment was directed more at tedlick....whatever....

I happen to think it is evil ...or at least very inhumane.....the practice in Alaska....with the wolves .....from planes...etc...... and a Governor there who condones, no promotes it ......I do not understand her "values" at all........I thought it was awful the way she paraded her children out in public all the time....a few of them looked so uncomfortable...as if they were props.....and needed their privacy, esp the pregnant teenager......but if Obama did that, you might think differently......

Amen, Sister Rachael.

Yes ....I agree Rachael....no one has to go to their wedding...civil or religious ceremony......maybe they should not worry about it so much.....

and yes, gay people are just as human as the others speaking here..and entitled to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...as everyone is....We are all God's children....he loves us all.....

none is created less than the other

Amen!

And some of these "conditions" are not choices.....one does not choose to be born with i.e. Down's Syndrome....autism,etc , etc.....sometimes the genes, chemicals, hormones go "awry".......homosexuality is not a choice!....who would choose to be condemned all the time.....think about it.....what is the name of that evangelical minister out West (Utah?) who was told to leave the church....Ted something? Starts with an "S" I think......he is married but has had relations with men.....he had a big evangelical following......let's see.....he just strayed???...yeah right.....he admits he"is wired differently"......he was such a hypocrite...denouncing gay people....and yet, behind his family's back, carrying on with men......at least he admits it now.....but he is God's child too.....and good he is finally being honest.......I doubt he "chose" this either.....why would he.....he was happily married....four fine children....no, he apparently, due to a combination of genetics and maybe upbringing, experiences, etc. was/is this way.....whether he considers it a sin or not, I do not know.....just being more honest about who he is.....

Rachael right on...!

No, 4Him2day, I do not believe in your view of evil.

Evil, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

I hope you have good neighbors tedlick..

Wow...I thought Maine was a place that held good old fashioned values & morals, boy was I wrong! I have friends that are gay and they are good individuals, but I DO NOT agree with same sex relationships! It's disgusting and sinful and I am so shocked to see that Maine actually supports and encourages this. Apparently there's no respect for the sanctity of marriage here. What a shame that such a beautiful state is tainted by such immoral behavior. *shakin my head*

Actually, Elizabethann, I have wonderful neighbors. I hope you do as well.

VOTE NO NEVER IN MAINE SEN DENNIS DAMON NEEDS TO BE VOTED OUT. VOTE IN NOV 2009 VOTE NO NEVER IN MAINE .

Me too tedlick.....good neighbors.....

....as for Maine....most people , even from "away" seem to consider Maine people to be very decent , for the most part......pretty friendly,etc.....you could do a lot worse.......maybe folks who find Maine, and New England in general, "too liberal" should consider moving to parts of the midwest or south....just saying....not saying there is anything wrong with those places...but it might be more conservative in places and more to some people's liking....

Then if someone hates someone they can do them harm because in his mind that is not evil.....oiyy.....

proud2BfromAway -what is disgusting and gross are judgemental people such as yourself...that is the downfall of society.

Elizabethann

You call yourself a catholic then you should start acting like one.

When I made my confirmation the nun said that a mark would be placed on our soul to show forever that we were confimed in the churc h, and the mark will never ever be erased.

She said when we die if we go to Hell then the mark will be visable for all to see that we had once accepted the right way to God, but we erred, and we'll be tanted and jeered by all the other lost souls in Hell because we were given salvation but, threw it all away.

The best thring for you to do is live up to the Holy Roman Catholic Church and its teachings before you are doomed for eternity to wander burning for ever through the scortching, flesh melting fires that will punish you severely for your ever worshiping false Gods who caused you to condemn others for far less crimes than you yourself have committed while here on the true God's Holy Roman Catholic earth.

I have reminded you of the true way to salvation, once again. You have no reason to continue to blindly stumble along the rock hewn path to eternal damnation.

May God and all the Saints in Heaven have divine Mercy on your wicked wicked and depraved soul!

Mainelyme

That's, "Taunted."

Your utter sinfulness leaves me too devastated to even think of the correct spelling for fear that God will even see me communicating with the likes of you!

Mainelyme

Take your heathen friends and your idol Lucifer and go.

You're only stoking the fires of Hell for all of you.

Mainelyme

Jesus said, "You, Peter are the rock on which I shall build my church."

He also said, "I am the way."

So, that being said in the Bible proves that Jesus Christ is the way, and the Holy Roman Catholic Church has the only road map that will get us all to our final heavenly destination.

But, only if we all accept Jesus Christ and The Holy Roman Catholic Church.

Go in peace, my child and sin no more!

Mainelyme

Tedlick said evil, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder....we cannot call evil good and good evil. There are basic truths when it comes to good and evil If we say there is no evil there would have been know reason for Jesus to come to earth and to die for our sins. But then again Mainelyme you always twist things. There's alot of that going on from alot of people lately. Alot of confusion. The spirit of confusion does not come from God.

mainlyme, you are correct in that Jesus is the only way, but false in your belief that its only through the catholic church. And yes I am an ex-catholic. It was the words that peter said in matthew 16 vs 16 " You are the Christ, the son of the living God" that the church was to be built upon. Jesus Christ is the foundation and cornerstone, Him and Him alone. The charge was not given to peter as the catholic church claims. Being a catholic isn't going to save you from hell any more than being a protestant will. It's a each person individually accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior, period.

Sharon and 4him..both good posts. We have to remember something. We do have to witness and at times we have to "brush the dust off our feet and leave town". In the end it is The Holy Spirit that will convert souls. From your posts, I know that you both realize that the Holy Spirit is very active in our times. And where the Holy Spirit is active so is his counterfeit. We all sin in different degrees. We are called to love the sinner and hate the sin. But that does not mean we must compromise our beliefs to keep peace and enable the sins of others and ourselves. In the end the battle has been won. The battle is a spiritual battle. Thank you both for witnessing. God bless

It's not evil to him or he wouldn't do it, Elizabethann. That, is my point. Everyone views evil as something different: for christians, sodomy, abortion, excess intoxication are all concepts perceived as "evil"... not everyone shares that view.

There's no confusion to it. Everyone views the world, the universe, their lives from a wholly personal perspective, and in all cases, reality itself is relative to the eye of the beholder. You like to paint the world in black and white, and it's not. It's a whole lotta gray.

Worship whom you feel. But don't expect your religious views to be made into law.

Man, you folks make me hope there is a hell. I'll put in for a double shift...

Shift 1: tormenting baptists that got caught dancing.

Shift 2: tormenting catholics who ate meat on a Friday...

Sounds like a fine job to me!

Tedlick....read an article about mental illness and it's relation to sin. The article said that sin that is repeated over and over again and not confessed and not felt remorse for can cause mental illness. Especially sins such as murder, rape, incest. I believe that.

Elizabethann,

I do not see homosexuality as a sin, and it's never caused anyone I know any mental illness. However, religion has, does, and will continue to do so. I believe that.

SharonFaith,

I view your religion as all other mythologies... it holds no sway over me except from a standpoint of parables.

Romans 13: 4 and 8.....have a good day....

tedlick, you're trying in vain to fit your theology to your sinful lifestyle and encouraging others to do the same.

And I would venture to guess you haven't found contentment in your lifestyle. Nor will you. Legalizing marriage isn't going to do it for you. Getting the majority to agree with you won't make it happen either. Deep down I think you already know that

when we have been taught the truth, and walk away from the truth, that is a sin aginst the Holy Spirit. To deliberately refuse to accept His mercy by repenting and acknowledging the sin is a sin against the Holy Spirit. It is different if you have never known God but to purposely walk away from Him to live a lifestyle that is not pleasing to God than that is wrong. We have to remind each other that God is a merciful God and no matter how deep we are in sin God is there to forgve.

I've recently been close to someone who died. He led a life of sin. He knew God, he loved God, he turned to God when he needed Him and God answered him in his life in a very profound way. In the years leading to his death, he realized he had not lived a very holy life. He became repentant and began to live a very prayerful life. He acknowledge his sin, made peace with himself and those around him. He died a very peaceful death. It was an honor to be with him in those last moments. The holiness in that room was almost tangible. He was given the grace of time before his death to find peace. It was a beautiful experience. One I will always cherish. We serve an awesome loving God. He has great love for us. He wants only to be with Him in heaven. We are His children. I only pray that we are given the time to die as this person did to prepare for death. We are not all given that gift. We must be ready.

You'll all be in for a surprise when you are drawing your last earthly breath and you say," I denounce my evil earthly ways and all of the sins I have committed," and God says, 'THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH."

All of you fallen away Roman Cathoilics better get to church and receive the Holy Eucharist as it's the body of Jesus Christ Our Lord, and that wafer is only redeemable through The Holy Roman Catholic Church.

And while you're there please light a candle and say a prayer for me.

I'll do the same for you.

Mainelyme

By the way;

Please tell us what part of the Catholic Church Doctrine couldn't all of you live up to?

Mainelyme

4Him2day,

I take great offense at that. I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything. You, on the other hand, are. In vain, I might add.

I'm only standing up for the idea that it is wrong (evil, in your language) for the government to treat one class of citizens differently than another, when there are no victims from either side.

As for my sinful lifestyle, I don't believe I sin. I've never hurt anyone in my life, and have therefore done no wrong. if I were pressed

I would go as far as to say that trying to convince someone that they're condemned to an eternity in hell for doing no wrong is a greater sin than homosexual sex.

Lastly, I've no real desire for marriage, but that doesn't mean I support out government treating one group different than another. My relationship is currently into its 17th year, and I wouldn't change a thing. I don't expect you to accept homosexuals, nor do I expect the government to base its principles on your religion's views. I only expect that homosexuals be treated justly, as with all other citizens by our government institutions.

I believe in the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. He sustains me. I'll take you up on that Mainelyme. I'll light a candle for you and you for me. One sinner praying for another.

None of us live up to the Catholic Doctine perfectly. It's a day by day walk. We catch ourselves in sin, run to the One who heals and forgives and keep on keeping on.

I ask God to heal me daily. I have things in my past that need forgiveness and healing. Many people I needed to forgive. Many times having to forgive myself. Couldn't do it on my own. I needed the grace to do it. As children few of us are left without scars. I've realized that many events in my past, things unforgive, unresolved anger, have hindered my relationship with God. Not because He withheld from me, but because I didn't turn to Him because of my own pain or pride. Painful memories and trauma have a way of not letting us move on into a more healthy, whole person. That's what I want to be. To be a whole person...emtionally and spiritually. The physical part I've given up on...:(

mainelyme, thats a huge question that requires much study but allow me to touch on several points which by the way can be all backed up by scripture which for me is my sole authority on these matters.

1. peter was not the first pope, the title of pope is found no where in the bible. The pope is a man just like any other man, and not endowed with any power thats not available to you and me. He does not speak excathedra as has been proved throughout the centuries.

2. No one has the power to forgive me my sins other than Jesus

3. There is no mediator between me and God other than Jesus

4. I will not pray to anyone other than God, that includes mary. Mary has absolutely no redemptive power.

5. do not believe in transubstantiation, this power does not exist in the priesthood

6.Jesus finished His work on the cross, 100%. Purgatory is therefore unscriptural

7. Bible states very clearly that a man must be born again, I believe this has to be a personal decision that has to be made by everyone, there are many catholics that I would consider to be born again christians but its not just being a catholic that saves you.

8. indulgencies

9. naming of saints

10. repitious prayer (rosary)

I could go on and on. Martin luther pretty much covered it all in his thesis

JUST GIVE ME JESUS

And one more note, taped to the inside of my bible is perhaps what I would consider to be one of the greatest prayers ever written, and its by mother theresa. So please don't feel as if I'm catholic bashing, There are many Godly catholics.

elizabethann, you are a breath of fresh air!

I make no apologies that your offended. You are indeed trying to convert people. 1john 1vs 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and his word is not in us. Your argument is not with me but with Gods word, and there you will find no middle ground.

4Him2day

"7. Bible states very clearly that a man must be born again,"

Through the process of REINCARNATION!

Elizabethann

You have revealed yourself to be such a kind, caring and sensitively intelligent person in past posts that it truly amazes me that you could be so hung up on the sexual preference of others.

Of course, you know that neither of us would bother with all of this if we didn't care about each other.

Please, try to be a bit more unjudging of others, and others will be a bit less judgemental of you.

Perley J. Thibodeau

Mainelyme

Honey...mainelyme...it's all sin....if it be the crooks who cleaned out the retirement funds of the elderly, or unhealthy sexual behavior, or the terrorist who straps bombs to people to kill....believe it or not I want the best for everyone. If it were my child who would live the lifestyle I would love them just as much as I do now. Not less...my heart would break...but I would love them anyway. Would I try to defend them and protect them...you bet ya...does a grizzly defend her young ones? But I would I ever tell them I was happy with the way they lived their lives?..No.. Would I encourage them to live it? No... they wouldn't. Would I ban them from my home and not make them feel welcome...never. I would still love them.

tedlick: I imagine you have found "contentment" in you life....you come across as someone who is happy enough in this life....unlike a lot of them here....who seem more focused on when they die......we are all going to die......but there is so much beauty and goodness in this world and life.....God put us here to make the most of our time here and improve things here with our God-given intelligence.......some here seem to focus only on their sinful pasts (we all have done things in our past that were not right...we are human beings after all) and preparing for the hereafter.....and talk on and on about it......that was not the main purpose of our being put in this life.....but of course we know how some here will disagree.....all 4HIm2day and others talk about is"sinful lifestyles"......some of us know we have sinned but are not so bogged down with just that......we try the best we can in the current lives we are living.......

Seems , for those who attend church, or adhere to a certain church's teaches....that one sees that as THE CHURCH and religion....and only that one is acceptable.....I think we are being a bit self-righteous in that regard.....God is the only all-knowing.....it is in His hands.....leave each to the church they wish to attend.....

Thanks chersully2000.

4Him2day: my only argument is that scripture is not the basis for law in this land. Therefore, to use it as an argument against proposed laws in this land is fruitless. And frankly, hateful christian types like you are never the type to follow their savior's example (forgive). They're always full of spite and hate for things Jesus approached with kindness and understanding. Therefore, I expect no apologies, as you are just proving my stereotype true.

Folks, one and all, have a marvelous weekend.

tedlick: Yes, that is the Jesus I was taught about as a child in Sunday School,etc....and now.....He is completely understanding and kind.........would never understand nor sanction such statements"as I wish Bush woul blow up the Obama administration".....I may not have agreed with most of Bush's policies but never made it personal......I saw good things too in Bush and would have made it a point anyway to look for the good as well......good family man and terrific father......I would never have wished he and his family ill (plus he was our President.)....no, I do not get some on this site, who profess to be the true Christians...it has not impressed me either...

Have a good weekend.