Flue bill seeks to allow easier furnace upgrades

Flue bill seeks to allow easier furnace upgrades


By Julia Bayly
Special to the NEWS

FORT KENT, Maine — Some homeowners with single-flue chimneys looking to upgrade oil-fired furnaces could get help from a bill now under consideration in legislative committee.

LD53, “An Act to Permit the Use of a Common Flue for Oil and Solid Burning Equipment,” if eventually passed into law, would relax a rule that now prohibits using a single-flue chimney to operate both an oil burner and wood stove.

“I received a call from a constituent who said he couldn’t replace his old furnace without adding another flue to his chimney,” Rep. John Martin, D-Eagle Lake, the bill’s sponsor, said. “He said it was because of insurance reasons.”

Martin said he made some calls on the constituent’s behalf and found the issue was not with the individual’s insurer, but with the Maine state fire marshal.

“Several years ago the fire marshal instituted a rule that all new homes that burn wood and oil for heat have to have two chimney flues,” Martin said. “Two years ago the fire marshal said any upgrades must include two flues.”

Before that rule, Martin said, older homes that ran both wood and oil furnaces into one chimney were protected under grandfather provisions.

“You and I know that these people with two furnaces — one for wood and one for oil — don’t use them at the same time,” Martin said. “They burn wood when they are home and use the oil when they are away.”

That practice does not create overuse on the single chimney flue, he said.

At the same time, Martin pointed out, newer oil furnaces are more efficient and burn cleaner, but under the current rules, anyone with an older, less-efficient furnace can’t upgrade without undertaking major chimney reconstruction.

“There are so many people in Aroostook County — and in Maine, for that matter — who have the double systems and want to upgrade and can’t as it stands now,” Martin said. “That didn’t make much sense to me.”

Calls for comment to the State Fire Marshal’s Office were not returned Wednesday.

Martin’s bill prohibits the commissioner of public safety and the state’s solid fuel board from adopting any rules that ban the use of a common chimney flue for two appliances using different fuels.

“Any changes would have to come before the Legislature,” Martin said.

As long as residents don’t simultaneously use two different furnaces hooked into the same flue, Martin said, there is no safety problem.

Problems with using two heat sources through a single flue include inadequate ventilation of carbon monoxide from the home. Carbon monoxide in sufficient quantities over a period of time can cause severe illness and even death.

“Every call I’ve received on this has been supportive,” he said.

LD53 will be considered by the Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee, which will hold a hearing on the bill at 10 a.m. Wednesday, Feb. 25, in Augusta.

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Comments
20 comments on this item

Sounds good John Martin that you jumped into this issue but where in the hell have you been all those years that this regulation has been in effect? Thousands of people have spent hard earned money to comply with this rule and many of them were the poor and elderly that couldn't afford to do it without great sacriface. Was this a friend or relative that got jammed up? or just a lucky person that caught you when you needed something to get some publicity? I have been familiar with this rule for several years and it was a real hot topic about 5 or 6 years ago when it came into being! It is really strange that you or your other public spirited officials didn't jump on this when it was happening instead of 5 plus years down the road. Maybe you will get lucky (even if it is an unintended consequence) and do the public some good, but think it through and make any change the right way and don't screw it up and make the situation worse although I suspect that is what is going to happen! I have yet seen a politician be able to look at the bottom line or play devil's advocate and look for unintended consequenses! Without going into whether this rule has been a good safety measure or an unneeded burden on citizens I just think that it is a shame that you are going to play politics with a serious safety issue and probably mess it up worse than it has already been for those that spent money they didn't have to spare just to be able to heat their houses! MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON'T MAKE THEM JUMP FROM THE FRYING PAN AND INTO THE FIRE JOHN!!

I never knew of this law, heck i have had a furnace and wood stove on the same flue for ages. I upgraded my oil system also . I did the upgrades my self. glad i never called a heating company now for the up grade. ,, God let people live they the life they want. Insurance company's have no problem with it ...

First off the article doesn't even address the issue why the statue is in place per NPFA code and also insurance companies. The reason two appliances should not be on the same flue is due to creosote build-up. Also , many of these older chimney's are not lined and the mortar is in ill- repair which further complicates the issue.

When you burn green wood or less seasoned wood (which a lot people due, as seasoned is more expensive) the creosote builds up fast, you have to clean your chimney every six months. And you need to clean it correctly and throughly - not throw the chains down and call it good. This DOES NOT happen, people always say they will, but just like batteries in the fire alarm.....it is down on the priority list when time/ money are hard to come by.

The reason insurance companies don't want to insure these properties...even if it is a newer home is....they burn down. Plain in simple.

THIS LEGISLATION IS A BAD IDEA. THIS SET UP IS VERY UNSAFE. I really hope insurance companies and fire services alike lobby against this proposal. Property will burn and people will die.

We had woodstove & furnace on same (properly lined 8") flue for 30 years. Creosote is going to form no matter what, so soxgrl's argument is shot. Failure to scrub out the chimney with a brush regularly is the problem. And I'll be building a new chimney in another house next summer, with a single flue for furnace and woodstove. This was just plain a dumb law that costs people money from the beginning, and prevented some from hooking woodstoves up when they were needed the most.

THE SETUP IS PERFECTLY SAFE, nummah.

diverman the insurance company's do care when I bought my house it had the warm air furnace and wood furnace they told me I had to chose only one to be one the chimney. And they would be back to inspect and if both were connected my insurance would be canceled.

Hey Redsoxgirl, I,m going to give you my opinion which is based on over 20 yrs experience of residential masonry experience.In that time I worked on, relined , rebuilt and generally repaired hundreds of chimney,s in the central Maine area. In my time I saw a lot of chimneys which had 2 units usually oil and wood on the same flue. as lond as the liner or chimney was in decent condition , the function of the chimney was actually enhaanced with 2 units as during the heating season the chimney or flue was always warm which is condusive to a more efficient operating chimney . In other words, 2 different fuels in a safe chimney is ok . An unsafe chimney is just that , weather u burn wood , oil, or anything else.

Spectacular example of those in augusta believing that they know how to run our lives and our homes better than we do. Hey Redsox girl why don't you stay the heII out of my house and my chimney and I'll stay out of yours. To you and all the ubber elite and soooo elightened in augusta trying to save me from myself, thanks but I got it.

Wow, finally a bill from this guy that actually makes sense and helps the average person, now thats a new one.

redsoxgrl, I dissagree, I don't believe that there was ever any evidence that two heating sources on the same chimney has ever caused a fire in Maine to begin with. Based on your argument, the issue is not one of duel use, but simply not maintaining the chimney. I guess the only argument you might have there is that a carbon monoxide hazard may exist is running a furnace with a chimney plugged with creosote, however, I would have to see evidence that that has ever caused a death in the state. Some pretty smart engineers at UMO have told me in the past that they never understood the origin of this code.

Thanks Rep Martin, Glad to see some are fighting for the working people. Just as Mr. Martin is quoted, “You and I know that these people with two furnaces — one for wood and one for oil — don’t use them at the same time,” Martin said. “They burn wood when they are home and use the oil when they are away.” Thus not creating an overuse. Also, if you read further into the law both appliances must be UL rated and approved for such uses. I believe this is geared more towards newer more efficient appliances that omit much less creosote. If you have an old homemade stove then you still wont be in compliance. This is definitely a step in the right direction to enable Mainers to lesson their dependence on foreign oil. Thank you, Rep John Martin

boogyman...HAHA...I was thinking the same thing! This is GOOD legislation and can be done in a manner that is safe and yet does not overburden the homeowner. It is RIDICULOUS that each and every vented "appliance" needs it's own flue and reeks of nannystateism from the baby faced boys over at the NFPA. A large majority of homeowners in ME with houses older than a few years that run both wood and oil are doing exactly this and you don't see houses burning down all over the place. I can't believe I'm saying this but "Go John Martin!"

I've been told an oil furnace will keep a chimney pretty clean, I actually had a double flue chimney installed. Was using a Tjernlund SS2 for side venting my furnace. They work pretty nice, little pricey but cheaper than building a new chimney.

The only reason why they have this law in the first place is so that someone other than the homeowner profits...

I was under the impression that a single flue will not have enough draft for two appliances... the automatic damper on the oil furnace will steal draft from the woodstove.

I'm over 60 yrs old and have been burning wood and oil my entire life in the same house...(except for military service) ....I have 3 appliances in the same flue..oil furnace, oil hot water heater and wood furnace.....I've had one chimney fire that I can remember...I haven't died from carbon monoxide...brain may be a little pickled but I think thats from another sourse...insurance company has hasseled me for many years about the three appliances, finally they cancelled me...best thing that could have happened...I wish now I would have never made all those payments over the years...I would have enough money to build a chimney in every room...and a few outside for good measure....its a gamble but what are the odds...they can put their insurance where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned....and soxgrl..where do you get your information....are you an adviser to the BDN reporters...

I've alwasy wondered about the comination wood / oil furances with just one flue. What is the difference between that and two flues on one chimney. Let's face it, someone who is going to burn green wood and or neglect their chimney is going to have trouble, no matter if it's one appliance or more.

I've known of this law and have always thought it was stupid. If it is too dangerous to allow anyone to hook up new systems with one flue, then why do we allow all the "grandfathered single flues" to remain out there? Because they are okay the way they are!!! People need to be responsible for thier own safety and maintenance of their homes, we can't police everything. Insurance companies suck!! They take your money for years, raising rates whenever they want without having to explain them to you.

we have two furnaces and have been burning wook for some 30+ yrs a few yrs back we also added the chimney sweep in our chimney so it is convienient now to sweep it once a week and we have never had a problem wanted to upgrade our wood furnace but with the rules in place we would have to build another chimney so we are stuck at this time. also we have NEVER burned green wood and that is key in safety. it is really nice when the oil truck comes to fill up and it's for 20-30 gal. of fuel a month. I hope the rule will pass. thx

The Tjernlund SS2 (Side Shot) May help a lot of you that want to burn wood and have an oil furnace. A little pricey. Around 500 dollars. Stick it right out the side of your house. They don't look bad and pretty easy to install. A double flue just has 2 flues running side by side in the brick.

Boy oh boy, wish we could have installed our woodstove w/o another flue! Cost a lot of money (that we didn't readily have) and we have less living space in an already small house because of having to place the woodstove where we could install another flue, instead of using the existing one!

No longer using the oil except to heat the water, and if we ever were away for an extended period of time in the winter we'd have to of course.

Too late for us, but for others I hope this bill can come to pass.

Portboy, you're asking quite a lot of John Martin to remember and fulfill all that you ask. Remember, he's just a politician and Webster’s Dictionary defines a politician as a liar and a thief who will violate any law including ones they have written and sponsored, to meet their own personal needs. It is more than likely that John needed an upgraded heating unit (not a constituent) and found out that even he couldn’t get it done with his greasy-politician tactics by an honest technician in the County, so he’d have to do it himself the way he opened up that blocked road near the Allagash, or hire a crooked heating tech. to change out his furnace. Just where the heck has John been that he doesn’t know this rule exists? BS.

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