AUGUSTA, Maine — Hundreds of pro-life advocates joined hands — many of them gloved — and formed a circle around the State House on Saturday in protest of the countless lives they believe are needlessly snuffed out every year by abortion.
The event, sponsored by the Maine Right to Life Committee, is held every January on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision that granted women the right to choose whether to terminate a pregnancy.
Nearly all of the attendees of the annual Hands Around the Capitol event held signs that read “Stop Abortion Now.” They had marched from the nearby St. Michael Catholic School to the State House in bone-chilling temperatures. Once a circle was formed, a volunteer rang the giant bell in front of the capitol 39 times, once for each year since Roe v. Wade became law.
Rep. Michael McClellan, R-Raymond, was one of several lawmakers who attended Saturday’s event.
“I’m a Jesus lover and Jesus is love,” he said after the event. “One thing I noticed, even with all the political stuff, is that people were smiling. There is love here and that’s the key.”
Earlier in the morning Saturday, many of the same people attended a rally at the St. Michael’s school gymnasium to hear remarks from prominent pro-life leaders, including Bishop Richard Malone, head of the Catholic Church in Maine, and Carroll Conley, executive director of the Maine Family Policy Council, also known as the Christian Civic League of Maine.
Gov. Paul LePage, who is Catholic, attended the rally and spoke briefly, but did not participate in the march or the event at the State House.
“The press makes us out to be the big bad guy. But we care about people and families. Today is important. It’s important we get together to care about life,” LePage said, according to a press release from the Christian Civic League.
The governor’s spokeswoman, Adrienne Bennett, had said Friday that the governor was attending in a personal capacity, not as the state’s political leader. By that, she meant that LePage has no plans to make abortion one of his legislative agenda items.
LePage also attended last year’s Hands Around the Capitol event, shortly after he was sworn in as governor.
During last year’s rally, there was a buzz around the election of LePage and the conservative shift of both the Maine House and Senate. Many right-to-life advocates predicted changes in the first session of the 125th Legislature.
But those changes never came.
The Legislature rejected multiple bills that sought to make it more difficult for women to get abortions, including:
- A proposal to impose a 24-hour waiting period for those seeking an abortion.
- An “informed consent” law that would require women seeking an abortion to be given materials about alternatives, legal rights and other information.
- A bill to outlaw violence against a fetus, which opponents deemed an assault on abortion rights.
“One of the biggest disappointments of my first year was the failure of the right-to-life bills,” McClellan said. “But for people that are pro-life, elections are coming, that’s a chance to see your voice heard.”
Conley agreed that the Legislature’s failure to enact what he called “incremental legislation” was disappointing. He did say that having Gov. LePage on their side is encouraging to pro-life advocates.
There are no bills before the Legislature at the moment that deal directly with abortion rights.
Asked whether public sentiment can change on an issue that has been legally settled for nearly four decades, Conley pointed to the growing number of young adults who oppose abortion.
“There is a growing number of the under-30 crowd that is not ashamed to say they are pro-life and they do it better than we do,” he said.
Indeed, many who participated on Saturday in Augusta were quite young.
“In the last 30 years, we’ve learned so much more about embryonic development and people need to have that information,” Conley said. “If that still doesn’t change their minds, OK, that’s the law.
“Often times [pro-life] efforts are seen as disingenuous. We need to be making sure that this not about a political win. We need to have a woman and her family’s best interests in mind.”
That’s great and everything… but who is going to finance all of these unwanted people. Oh… that’s right the taxpayer… silly me for asking.
Who financed you, Brian. And was the cost worth it?
Two responsible parents, employed & married (imagine that) that made a conscious decision and had the financial resources (due to a combined blue collar jobs) to have a son! So yes it was worth it because the taxpayers money was not squandered supporting an illegitimate child!
no child born is illegitimate. They are all legitimate people. That term is rather archaic.
Nope, not the taxpayer. The same people marching to demand that women lose the right to choose will watch her carefully, and the instant she gives birth they’ll declare her unfit (premarital sex and all that) and advocate against her or her child receiving any welfare benefits, food stamps, and the like. The right to live ends at birth, in their view.
Hold on…lets change your “women lose the right to choose” to “women lose the ability to kill a baby”. There..fixed.
Scientifically, it is not a baby. It is a fetus. In the eyes of the government, it is not a baby. It is not a dependent until born, other wise I would have claimed my fetus on my taxes before she was born a healthy baby.
If you want to make it so less abortions occur, support real sex education in our schools, not abstinence only, and make it easier and more affordable, even free contraception.
Funny thing is, I am a teacher and my high school does have sex ed, as most in Maine do. I do find it interesting that the numbers of people who think abortion should be outlawed is growing.
Actually, according to the annual Gallup poll on the subject, the reverse is true. In the last three years, those who consider themselves pro-choice has risen to 49% from 42%, while pro-life advocates have dropped from 51% to 45%. Either way, the nation remains pretty much evenly divided on the topic.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147734/americans-split-along-pro-choice-pro-life-lines.aspx
The problem is pro choice is underfunded and splintered.Anti choicers are wealthy and have plenty of free time to mislead people.
and that’s why we have the SCOTUS, to turn a blind eye to special interests and stay focused on our rights to privacy and choice,
I wish that were true.SCOTUS is out only for the rich and conservative.I have a SCOTUS shirt I’d love to make if I could afford to.The loss of great justices like Douglas has hurt us all.
In many schools thats what is happening – but the teenage preganacy has NOT decreassed – look at the facts!
actually, the teen pregnancy rate is the lowest it’s ever been in 2 decades. Also, in states that use abstinence only education the rate is higher.
CNN Article:
The Vital Signs report looked at data from 1991 to 2009 and found that in addition to the steady decrease in the rate of teen pregnancies, there’s also been a decrease in the percentage of high school students even having sex. More teens are using contraception, too; the CDC says the percentage of students who had sexual intercourse in the past three months without using any type of contraception decreased from sixteen percent to 12 percent while the percentage of students using two forms of contraception (for example, a condom and birth control pills) increased from 5 to 9 percent.Still, roughly 1,100 teenage women give birth every day. According to the CDC, that means one of every ten new mothers is a teenager. The majority are Hispanic or African-American, with respective birth rates nearly double that of white teenagers. Combined, all teen pregnancies cost taxpayers about $9 billion a year.
Now theres a fact – contact you local school board office – they have a far different story.
why don’t you start providing some facts? I suppose the CDC must be completely wrong on the statistics.
I had! READ
no you haven’t. All that you have provided is emotional responses. No statistics, no scientific data, and not one single link.
The only like that is missing is between your two ears.
…… and personal attacks when you can’t come up with any facts. It does nothing for your argument.
oh, and I think you mean “link” not “like” ;)
i call this ‘confusing ferocity with veracity’. some people think that if they phrase their opinions with a large degree of vitriol that people will be reduced to believing their claims by sheer terror.
weak minded, I know. but then again you are having a conversation with someone who thinks we live in a theistic state, not a secular one.
I think we’re supposed to “shut up and listen.”
Good thing you’re here Millicent! Good job!!!
present some facts, and we’ll look at them.
I have – and so have many others
when? where? all I see here is rhetoric.
Abortion has always occurred and always will occur. When it is legal, it is done in a medical setting. When it is illegal, it is done with coathangers or by back-alley practitioners. The anti-choice crowd would rather see the latter.
You know what’s funny? I’m sure the majority of these hand-holding people would never want an unwanted child to be adopted by a gay couple.
Gay couples who want children go through an awful lot of hassle to be able to have a child and raise him or her.
These children are WANTED, but many Christians and conservatives do not ever want a gay couple to raise a child. During my campaign for marriage-equality I’ve read some surveys where some people have said that it’s better for a child to be raised in an abusive opposite gender family than in a same gender family with no abuse.
Topsy turvey, if you ask me.
some believe that raising a child in a gay family is abuse, just as raising one in say a family with multiple wives. in instances of plural marrage children are removed by the state and the parents are considered unfit. both situations expose children to forms of sexual deviancy, only one is accepted by society. under any base christian religion homosexuality is not of god. so for christians, when child is raised in a home where parents convince the child that such a sin is permittable and normal the child is going to be deeply damaged
Is beating your child and spouse not a sin? Leaving the child in an abusive home is a better sin?
What are you feelings about single parent families and divorce?
Conservatives stop caring about a child’s well being at birth, it does seem.
I am not religious, but I do have some strange spiritual side. Even this atheist finds it gross to put “tax dollars” over human life. Now i’m not against pro choice, but when its a position of dollars and cents, not legit reasons like rape, incest, danger to the pregnant mom, etc, money should not decide the fate of a living being.
good point….a great arguement for hmmmm. killing potential drains on society. because remember everyone, any abortion survivor out there is a useless, unwanted, less than human. with no chance of succeding in life.
Do conservatives control Congress or not ?
Where is the anti-abortion amendment, then ?
The cynical conservative political leadership support the abortion laws just as they are now .
They need it as wedge issue.
Conservatives do not control Congress, they control one chamber. What’s more, they’d still need 2/3 of both houses to propose an amendment. Perhaps the Democrats should go along and support it, and in doing so, take the abortion issue away from the Republicans.
You are probably right on that. If the democrats oppose abortion the republicans will then argue in support of abortion, if their actions of the last 3 years are any indications.
” If the democrats oppose abortion the republicans will then argue in support of abortion, if their actions of the last 3 years are any indications.”
That is not my point at all.Who really approves of abortion, at all ?
People are not pro-abortion, they are just realistic and so pro-choice.
They support having a legal, medically safe choice available to all woman.
They support maintaining the safe option that that many woman,
some young Republicans, home schooled, Christian ones,
with their Daddy’s Purity Ring, even, are forced to make for social reasons
…. or as they wait for the tax cuts for the wealthy to trickle down to them,
so they afford medical insurance for their child.
But politics, is exactly why the conservative leadership will not ever really do anything to end abortion in America.
The politics of being against abortion is too a good a deal for the cons to actually really do anything about changing it, especially letting it ever come to vote. Most American hold their nose and say better it be legal and safe then illegal but done anyway.
Sometimes my sarcasm is not expressed well in print. Your reply was well said and exactly to the point.
Thank, and fine, because,even if I choose to take it literally,
OR to post under your comment, addressing different points because it fits the flow better,
I got to expand my ( our ? ) points, and now repeat them just they do on FNN, too.
;0
So I’m glad for your help in getting me to post, edit it different and re-post ;
> People are not pro-abortion, they are just realistic and so pro-choice.
>They support having a legal, medically safe choice available to all woman.
> They support maintaining the safe option
… that that many woman, some young Republicans, home schooled, Christian ones, with their Daddy’s Purity Ring, even, are forced to make for social reasons …. or as they wait for the tax cuts for the wealthy to trickle down to them, so they afford medical insurance for their child.
But politics, is exactly why the conservative leadership will not ever really do anything to end abortion in America.The politics of being against abortion is too a good a deal for the cons to actually really do anything about changing it, especially letting it ever come to vote.
> Most American hold their nose and say better it be legal and safe then illegal but done anyway.”
Because the marked points are all solid stand lone talking points,
I think, don’t you ?
AND as a summary of all the real politics left in this old beaten conservative dead war horse of a diversionary wedge issue:
“But (diversionary) politics, is exactly why the conservative leadership will not ever really do anything to end abortion in America.
The politics of being against abortion is too a good a deal for the cons to actually really do anything about changing it, especially letting it ever come to vote.
… might be especially … specifically… ” well said and exactly to the point.” now, in this political silly season, where it should be about the economy, anyway, even if I do say so myself, don’t you think, too ?
: )
exactly
So where is the Conservative anti abortion admendment for anyone to support
… ever ?
Oh, yeah, …. you didn’t deny the real point:
” The cynical conservative political leadership support the abortion laws just as they are now . They need it as wedge issue.” , did you ?
Can you ?
I don’t know if there’s been one introduced in the current Congress, but everyone knows that there have been several introduced in the past, none of which gained the required majorities. Are there some conservatives that do support the status quo? I’m sure there are. The Cantor, Krauthammer, Kristol types come to mind. But in general, I don’t question the conservative political leaderships motivation; the Roberts and Alito appointments should confirm that they are genuinely determined to make progress on the abortion front.
“I don’t know if there’s been one introduced in the current Congress”
Why not, unless it only an important issue BEFORE elections,
but not after those you voted for because they were anti-abortion are in office ?
YOU do understand that a Constitutional Amendment is now the only proper way to end abortion, and it would end all abortion, including in cases of rape or incest or be morally,
if not Constitutionally invalid, too, DON’T YOU ?
If not at least that, what DO you people really know about the real world “POLITICS” of this tired, old conservative “political” issues ?
LOL
BTW, NO, since 1983 there has not been any real effort to actually act on all the conservative politician’s anti-abortion promises.
Why not unless it is just the con’s con game run on the moral majority ?
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Life_Amendment
And next month there’ll be a different story and you’ll say that Republicans are trying to chip away at women’s rights. If you don’t think that they want to prohibit abortion or make it more difficult, then why even bother to oppose them?
“And next month there’ll be a different story and you’ll say that Republicans are trying to chip away at women’s rights. ”
Instead of sounding like OWS protesters bashing Mitt for being too corporate minded …. like this past week ?
They use being being anti abortion to manipulate YOU and your vote,
but do nothing to end it.
Have your really not noticed that, YET ?
Fine then. I won’t expect you to have anything critical to say in the future if bills restricting abortion are introduced, because, as you say, they don’t want them to pass. If abortion rights are so secure, I wonder why you spend so much time posting about it.
“Fine then. I won’t expect you to have anything critical to say in the future if bills restricting abortion are introduced, because, as you say, they don’t want them to pass.”
Why ?
Is it because you are nuts ?
… Or an authoritarian with the right and power to impose your will on others ( fits your anti-abortion stand).
Or are you not a supporter of the US Constitution ?
It couldn’t be that you hate my point so much you have to pretend you don’t understand it, and expect
that to be respected.
You don’t seem that clever .
LePage doesn’t seem to realize that while he is Governor, there is no personal capacity. Being Governor is a 24/7 year round position.
Thank you to those who were able to attend and support this rally for recognizing the unborn and the sanctity of life…..
I wish I could have been there
Once again, one could say that we are fortunate that our mothers gave birth to us and allowed us to live life now. It is difficult to understand how anyone can crassly say than any child who is unwanted should be killed in the womb or after. If the bottom line is the dollar, as with everything these days, then our lives might be at stake in the Obama world we are in right now. Seniors will be next in line. Our “defective” babies found by ultrasound are not given a chance to see the light of day, but it does not stop there–it is simply a woman’s right to decide if healthy babies should be killed in the womb or just outside as in partial-birth abortions of which the president is adamantly in favor. A society that does not protect the right-to-life of our unborn, our “defective,” our disabled, our seniors will certainly cease to have God’s blessings.
My sister is an RN and she witnessed a partial birth abortion, and she quite that unit. It had a very negative effect on her, she said, there is never a medical reason to remove the baby and then kill the baby. Many babies can actually survive even being premature. So sad.
Your sister is an RN, not a doctor. I cannot believe that she could know that there is NEVER a medical reason for such a procedure.
there is never a reason or excuse to murder a child….never.
True. But a 4-week old mass of cells is not a child.
thats like saying you were not a child at one point.
Exactly right. I was not a child at many points. I was a mass of cell, then a fetus, etc….
You are still a mass of cells, you are just sentient now.
Good point.
But still, a mass of cells at that point is not a baby.
So a woman that becomes impregnated through rape should carry the baby to term?
Didn’t Jeff Foxworthy say it like this :
Hey Rednecks, unless you would make your twelve year old daughter carry to full term and birth your new grandchild, that was the product of her being raped by someone of a different race …. then you might be pro-abortion.
They kill the baby after the baby enters the world. So sad. I guess its so the baby doesn’t struggle for breath or try to survive. I know nurses have gotten fired for wrapping babies in blankets and holding them until they die. They are suppose to dispose of them immediately. I think that is why they went to partial birth abortion, so that they made sure the child was dead after birth to prevent nurses from cuddling babies until death or risk that they might survive.
Really? The right to have an abortion has been the law for 40 years. Do you really think that suddenly, now, we’ll just start killing old people because they’re a drain on society?
Give me a break.
Under Obama’s heath care law that is exactly what will happen.
Death panel scare tactics.
“Death panel scare tactics.” …. which only work if one thinka that the insurance companies don’t already do it, anyway.
exactly right again
repeating the death panel myth is irresponsible.
No, repeating that the death panel is a myth is irresponsible.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/palin-vs-obama-death-panels/
Strange you would believe what the Government tells you now because the same type of myths were circulating before Roe vs Wade. If people had believed the so called myths back then we probably would not be having this discussion now. Never trust the Government and never bend over in front of a politician.
I don’t believe the government, that’s why I utilize multiple sources like factcheck.org, a project of the Annenberg Foundation, dedicated to truth in the media.
in some countries they do!
In Hartford they do it.
In some countries they let the woman decide for herself what the course of action should be.
It may have been the law but it has never been allowed to be implemented 100% as it should be.Violence against clinics and women is endemic and ongoing,not to mention the idiotic things like personhood amendments.The fact is a small number of wealthy people have gotten their way for years.They could care less about helping people.All they care about is seeing their name in print and getting their way.
Are you suggesting that Obama is going to start “putting down” seniors and disabled babies??????????????
The inside of your head is a terrifying place. seek help!!!!
”
one could say that we are fortunate that our mothers gave birth to us and allowed us to live life now. It is difficult to understand how anyone can crassly say than any child who is unwanted should be killed in the womb or after. ”
Yet, never the less women do that, always have, in one way or another, usually driven by social pressures.
So are you a woman ?
If not why expect to understand ?
If so, lucky you that you do not understand the pressures some other woman face.
It not usually JUST money.
I must think, but the added judgmentalism that a poor single mother faces . especially if she needs public assistance , and you know, because she she didn’t get an abortion, becomes one those hated welfare queens must be factor, too.
I don’t think that is usually the single deciding factor, just as money itself is not.
But I think that attitude, the things that some people say about THEIR taxes being used to help,
and refusing to make all our Nations children be given a basic chance at having a secure life,
health care and a good education that enables them to to get a good secure job, really work,
and instead using it as a bludgeon to beat down them low class sinners,
must contribute to the abortion rate.
Don’t you ?
As a survivor (my mom had me at 16 and her mom had her at 16) I broke the family tradition of young mothers. My mother of course was immediately offered the “choice” I am thankful, that she didn’t choose to kill me.
I can’t understand how people will donate money and do all they can to save a whale trapped in ice, a tree or a kitten. Yet, those same people will vote to kill a defenseless baby. I watched my ultrasounds, and sadly miscarried every other child. I have seen spontaneous abortions. I know what the baby looks like that they kill. They cannot convince me that they kill cells or matter when the baby has a detectable heartbeat.
I’m not saying to keep an unwanted baby. I’ll take your baby, just don’t kill your baby. I have honestly raised my fair share. I assure you, there are many mothers out there just dying to love your baby. Todays open adoptions are very reassuring that your baby will be well taken care of.
So if a woman is raped and becomes pregnant you feel she should carry the baby till term and then give it up for adoption?
Yes, the baby should not suffer for another’s crime. Surveys have shown that many times a rape victim will choose to keep her baby if offered help and encouragement. Two wrongs do not make a right. Having a child to hold and love after having endured the violent act of rape actually helps the mother to heal. Many interviews with mothers who did not choose abortion, show that they were extremely glad that they had chosen life for their baby.
And you honestly think every single woman that has been raped wants to carry the fetus till term?
It doesn’t matter. The American Taliban have made the decision for her.
That’s right, equate people who uphold an innocent baby’s rights with terrorists who send their children to die for the cause. You talk about ignorance. That’s ignorant!
Maybe you will answer it this time…
Are you for or against the death penalty?
How do you equate the murder of an unborn, innocent human being with the criminal justice system taking the life of someone who has murdered another in cold blood? They’ve forfeited their life, Kevin. They’ve shed the blood of another.
Typical Christian responce.
That’s right.
typical resonse from a person who does not know the person they are trying to label. How ignorant.
I’m well aware of the fact that a lot of Christian men enjoy controlling women. A lot of these Christian men feel they can keep a woman down and ignore their rights.
Look, I respect whatever faith anybody has. But to single out one religion is wrong. I think most people, no matter what religion you have believes that you shouldn’t have to have permission to be born. There will always be controversy about abortion, but as long as I’m alive, I’ll peacefully fight for the right of these innocent babies that have no choice in what happens to them.
And the rest of us will peacefully fight for the rights of the innocent mothers who have every right to determine what happens to and in their bodies.
I am also well aware that you are the “typical” controling man – just reread most your post.
equating people who hold a fetus’ rights over that of a person who is already here, and trying to control what a woman wants to do with her own body is not equivalent to terrorists.
However, it is equivalent to extremist religions that wish to control women, who are also most likely to be considered terrorists as well. So, really, Kevin isn’t that far off the mark.
Hey! That was my point!!! ;o)
oops, my bad..lol :)
“terrorist who send their children to die for a cause”…
******
that’s a very good description of what Iraqi families must think of our soldiers.
walk a mile in someone’s shoes before you judge.
judge not lest ye be judged.
Judgement is for the Lord, not for you here on earth.
I replied through Disqus, but apparently it didn’t go through. So, at the risk of repeating myself, I’ll try again.
I have refrained from bringing the Bible into this argument simply because I don’t have the space to apologize from a Biblical perspective about the pro-life position. However, since you brought it up….the Bible has a lot to say about the sanctity of life, children, and coming judgment.
Here’s a couple of verses about children:
Psalm 127: 3 “Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.”
Isaiah 44: 2 “Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb…”
Speaking to Jeremiah the prophet on the same subject:
Jer. 1: 5 “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee: before thou camest out of the womb I sanctified thee…”
On judgment:
Rev 20:11-15 “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Lengthy, I know, but the verses speak for themselves.
You’re right. The Lord is going to judge all of us.
and until that time, we live in a secular nation. so let’s leave the judgement to God in Heaven, and here on earth, to our appointed judiciary.
The percentage of women who get raped and want an abortion is very small compared to the overall number of abortions every year, something along the lines of 1.5 million. Think about it. 1.5 million unborn babies destroyed every year simply for the mother’s convenience.
It has nothing to do with the numbers. It has to do with a woman’s rights and you are the type of male that wants to control what a woman is allowed to do with her body.
You don’t have to carry the fetus till term, you don’t have to feed it, care for it and you need to get off this kick that it is for the mother’s convenience.
That is a pretty ignorant statement to make.
Your statement is ignorant, Kevin. I have two young children, my wife passed away several years ago, and I’ve raised them on my own. I am fully aware of the difficulty of raising kids. I am very often inconvenienced. There are often times when I can’t do what I want because of my kids. They cost a lot of money, time, blood, sweat, and tears. I’ve taken care of them when they’ve been sick, I’ve cleaned up their puke, I’ve sat with them at night. I wouldn’t change it for anything. It goes with the territory. What you’re saying, Kevin, is that the unborn baby has no rights, that the existence of that child is merely at the whim of a woman’s choice. That’s not only ignorant, Kevin, but depraved.
A fetus does not have rights because it is not a person yet. A woman who is here, already living, has rights.
A fetus is a person, Millicent. That’s a very convenient attitude you have. You ought to look at the new sonograms they have now. They’re in 3-D. They’re incredible. They show the face, facial features, expressions, hand’s moving, feet moving. They are a person in miniature.
A fetus is not a person. A fetus of one month or even three months cannot survive outside of the womb.
So is that the truth . . . from a guy who does not belive in truth –
What are you typing about? Look up the word fetus and educate yourself.
Don’t be rude – and talking about educating yourself – your one to talk!
Your statement = Your right and I no longer have the means to continue debating so I’m going to start talking out of my a__.
On a side note, I think this is the first time I’ve come to the defense of Kevin Of Bangor.
Can you mind your own buisness, or do you just join any conversation that you feel you need to open your mouth to without thinking first?
I join any conversation I like, that’s actually how this site works. You want privacy, give Kevin a call. None of your yap changes the fact that I’m right and you have nothing. ; )
It is the truth. A fetus is not viable until somewhere around 24 weeks. That’s 6 months if you need the math. Even then it’s only about a 35% chance, and more likely to have major complications and health problems if the fetus does survive.
Was I talking to you? I think not – mind your own buisness.
one more time….this is a message board that is open to the public.
Really?
a fetus is not a person – tell the fetus that.
Good point. I’ll invite him or her over and discuss it over drinks.
sorry, don’t you know the legal drinking age? How ignorant can you be?
haha! Okay, Juicy Juice, then!
lmao!
LMAO!!!
When the fetus talks back (or cries, because that’s more likely to come from a young person) then I’ll respect the fetus’s right to life.
And you never had to carry either of your children till term and give birth to them, now did you?
I’m still wondering when you are going to answer my question. I wonder why you are ignoring it.
he is not the only one thats ignoring you
i am sure that some women have abortions on a whim, as you say. but to presume it is the same for all women is not sensible (or ignorant as you like to call Kevin)
to choose an abortion a woman must be: desperate. alone. hopeless. afraid. probably uninsured.
Ah. Being desperate, alone, hopeless, afraid, and of course, uninsured, makes murdering an unborn, innocent human being o.k. Thanks for enlightening me. Tell me, STG, when exactly does the ‘fetus’ become a human being, and how do you arrive at such a conclusion? Who gets to play God? How do you determine right and wrong?
you seem comfortable playing God. telling women what to do.
What does your god have to do with my life?
Nothing in this life, if you don’t want Him to. Or everything. The choice is yours.
and you not the “type of male that wants to control” hmm let us remember what you have said before . . . .
Please inform me of what I have said before.
You can’t remember . . . maybe you should spend more time reflecting on what you are saying istead of speaking first and then thinking about what you have said later – as your words will come back to haunt you!
If you are going to make an accusation one should be able to back up said accusation with facts and you have yet to do so.
You know what I am talking about, your not that innocent in what you have said in the past and have done in the past. You know what I am talking about – I don’t need to spread the story all over the Bangor News website.
Troll …
hmm another person who can’t mind their own buissness
it’s a public discussion forum for pete’s sake.
you don’t need to include Pete in this!
you have yet to:
make a coherent statement
say anything without an exclamation mark
provide supporting documentation for any of your claims.
Well Pete is a friend of mine who lives down the road and frequently comes on here to make commnets – I don’t thik he would agree with the way you are constantly butting in on others conversations. But if you need further evidence please call him at 207 654 7566 and maybe he can provide further proff.
discussing on a discussion forum is not butting in.
why are you here if you don’t understand that?
You, not me brought my friend Pete into this conversation for some reason. I just called him and he doesn’t know what your talking about – just stop bring people I know into a conversation that you haven’t even talked to – I think you need to give your head a shake and leave Pete out of things.
i think this word was made up just for you. enjoy
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whackadoo
WTF?
How circular.
Do you remember every single thing you’ve ever said?
This has nothing to do with you – please mind your own buisness!
You’re making remarks in a public forum. It is my business. If you want a private discussion with someone, then have one. Otherwise, everything here is fair game, brah.
The tone in which you have been writing suggests to me that you would control what others think. How arrogant is that? To blindly give a pass to the blaise attitude toward abortion that exists today, as so clearly demonstrated by the hard and factual numbers, would be the height of ignorance.
Regardless of one’s beliefs on abortion, it should be easy to see that the debate centers around a very selfish notion: “It’s my body, and I’ll do what I please with it!” Where does this come from? Oh yeah…when God no longer exists, life is all about an individual’s rights. Forget about the legal and ethical issues for a moment and reflect on the utter waste of potential that occurs as a consequence of abortion. It is, in and of itself, an inexcusable act of prejudice and discrimination as well.
And, heaven forbid (pun intended) anybody is ever challenged on how these rights that are so well defended on paper and in court by people who really only seem to care about winning arguments for the sake of their own vanity (guilty), actually apply to real life situations. I’m no expert on child development, but if I remember correctly, normally functioning children should evolve beyond the black-and-white concrete thinking stage around twelve years old or so?
Why should those who neither believe in God or believe in your brand of religion be subject to your interpretation of God’s word?
I thought I did pretty well speaking in general terms without referring to God’s word at all. But, we only see what we want to, eh?
can I make your medical decisions for you? c’mon, please?
you are deciding to do with your body what you choose…that’s selfish! surely Kevin and I can chime in and tell you what to do (with your body).
(weird idea when you look at it from that angle)
If you think that you’re have any real control over your body, then go ahead and commit some heinous crime and end up in prison for years, or try to fly off of a roof, or maybe swim with the dolphins out into shark infested waters, or…
dogs and cats living together…
your words are like reading a bowl of alphabet soup that’s been spilled on the floor. some of it might make sense, but its mostly just a mess of unassociated wet pasta.
I think you understood my point, but you choose to insult me rather than deal with points you’re unwilling to confront.
you had a point? it seemed like a Salvador Dali painting with disconnected symbols floating around in a seemingly endless void of surrealistic imagery.
no, i did not get your point.
How is it selfish for me to make decisions about my health?
Taxpayers have to pay for these fetuses as well.Anti choice conservatives get off scot free for committing murder(Salvi,Roeder and more)bombings and other violence that is NEVER covered.Where was the coverage of the NYD 2012 arson in FL by the BDN or any media?
These criminals belong in jail.A woman(along with her medical team) who has an abortion needs to be celebrated for making her choice under difficult circumstances.Work on getting the Hyde Amendment repealed and support choice always!
exactly. Pro-Life = believe what we believe or we’ll kill you.
/pfft
Think of the millions of aborted babies, who have been thrown in the garbage after the abortion – how sad.
Think of the millions of aborted embryonic cells that have been used to further research on medical issues that cause death in real people and how much that has helped us to allow people who are already people to better their lives.
Thank of the millions of actual babies who have been thrown in the trash cans because their mothers didn’t have the choice to have an abortion before they were people who could feel pain.
ya I know, rape can be very convenient…
Some women who are raped do opt to go to ER immediately. Best thing to do in the best of situations. I know fear and hardship doesn’t always allow this. There they can recieve very important medical attention, antibiotics, including the day after pill preventing pregnacy. This is the best in rape situations to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. However, if this doesn’t happen, there is adoption. The baby deserves the right to life.
You do understand that a fetus is not a baby, correct?
Let me ask you this. If you have/had a daughter and she was raped and became pregnant would you support her if she wanted to have an abortion?
Can you really prove that a fetus is not a baby? So, the argument goes the other way. However, at least with a fetus, there is suddenly “something” that was not there before. Something to ponder by those of us fortunate enough to be alive on this cold yet glorious day.
A fetus is a fetus. A baby is a baby. An adult is an adult. It really is that simple.
no one is pro-abortion. you don’t have to convince anyone abortion is bad. but you do have an uphill battle to convince people that my choice is your business.
So your rights are more important than the sanctity of life then? Since you’ve obviously chosen to remain a member of society, your rights are diminished in the interest of the greater good, which is of my concern. I have a right to be concerned with the progression of humanity as a whole. BTW, Do you even know what your rights really are, and how you happened to obtain them or how you would propose to enforce them?
so your opinion is more important than my opinion when it comes to a decision involving my private medical matter?
not likely
and yes, i understand human rights and from where they originate.
Societies as a whole most certainly do have opinions on what is right and wrong, and impose them in both subtle and profound ways. Religion’s often have their own opinions, and impose them as well. But, life itself supercedes them all. We have been given the awesome responsibilty of creating life, and we crap on it. Opinions aside, you can do whatever you like, but know that abortion is murder, not a medical matter, unless, of course, you consider killing a person a medical matter.
exactly! morality is subjective.
you finally got it. good.
now leave American women and their doctors alone.
I actually inferred quite the opposite. Please learn how to read if you’re going to discuss important matters with adults.
you implied. i inferred.
please learn how to write.
Oh, so you were paying attention. Thank you for the correction.
My rights as a person are more important than the rights of an unborn fetus.
A fetus is not a baby because a fetus is connected to a woman’s body and is 100% reliant upon the host to nourish its life. A baby is able to live without being attached to a woman’s uterus.
The woman deserves the right to life more than a cluster of cells forced upon her by a rapist.
For many women, they wouldn’t be able to do something like that. Would you risk the life of the already born woman for that of a fetus? Many women contemplate suicide after going through rape or incest. Force them to go through with a pregnancy and I bet you will increase the odds on suicide.
You need to check your facts!
By just claiming that I am wrong, doesn’t make it so. Perhaps you should provide some proof.
http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/mentalimpact.shtml Some mental heath problems are life threatening. When asked if they ever thought seriously about committing suicide:One-third (33%) of the rape victims and 8% of the non-victims of crime said yes. Rape victims were 4.1 times more likely than non-crime victims to have contemplated suicide. Rape victims were 13 times more likely than non-crime victims to have attempted suicide (13% Vs 1%).
or you could provide some facts.
exclamations do not equate to a fact based discussion
Very true! Rape doesn’t justify murder that is the dumbest excuse for murder that I have ever heard.
Thank God for the SCOTUS who protect me from zealots.
Roe v. Wade. (thank you God, thank you so much)
You can’t murder something that isn’t a person….
So another words, after a woman is violently assaulted, they should be further assaulted and punished by going through 9 months of labor and giving birth to a child she likely would only resent, so that she can give that child to someone else? Is it my ignorance, but are any of you PRO-lifers out there concerned about the mental aspects and damage done to the woman that is raped? Just because you are a woman doesnt mean you should be susceptible to crimes and then punished as a victim. Its HER body, she has a right to decide what to do with it. ANY MAN out there that believes otherwise should be given a chance to go through labor. They have devices now that will actually allow this. Any woman out there that believe another woman doesnt have a right to decide should honestly be ashamed of themselves
Good points all.I didn’t know of “fake labor” devices.Keep working for choice and for the half of the world’s population who often cannot speak for themselves,especially in developing countries.
“surveys have shown”…..piss off
This is one of the most irrational statements I’ve ever read.
Are you a member of a cult?
Yes, I know many beautiful amazing adults and children that were the result of rape. One boy is a very good friend of my daughters and her mother is a very strong woman who made the choice to give him the good life. His father is in prison, (rape/kidnapping charges several years after his mother) but he is doing great. Strong women raise strong kids!
exactly. she made the choice.
/end of discussion
“I know many … children that were the result of rape.”
Where do you live ?
Why not?
I am not sure any man can answer this question.
My mom thought about it too when she was pregnant with me.
Had she done it, though, I would never have known.
Our mothers chose what was best for them under them circumstances they were in. But that doesn’t mean that what was right for OUR mothers means that that is what’s right for every single woman in the country when they are in such a situation. How can we even pretend to know that?
I was in college with a very unwanted pregnancy. Embarresed, at a loss, I sat at an abortion clinic. Faced with a life altering decision. To kill or not to kill? I chose my daughter, today would I have chosen differently? Of course not. Living with the guilt of having taken your own child’s life must be horrible guilt. I’m so glad, I never had to find out. When people do all they can to save kittens and puppies, yet have no desire to save a human life that is sad.
You are posting your responses on your emotions and your emotions only. You are not taking into fact how anyone else other than you feel.
Very selfish of you to do so.
your talking about being selfish – now thats funny . . .
I am so glad that you choose life for your daughter
“No desire to save a human life.” You say that as if all people who support a woman’s right to determine her own future are all in favor of just killing people willy-nilly.
Spin, baby, spin.
Do you need to open your mouth and interupt someone everytime they speak, or can you just keep your mouth shut and listen for a bit?
The hostility! My WORD! And on a Sunday, too!
you might do better going to a discussion forum that doesn’t allow discussion.
i think that’s called: your diary
I think the fella is just having fun at this point.
To your last sentence about kittens and puppies,feel free to explain how Palin got paid a boatload of money by TLC to hunt on camera yet presents herself as pro-life.Sorry.
I applaud your choice, fortunately you had a choice, and will continue to have one as long as R v. W is on the books. The law is very clear. You had a choice, You made a choice, don’t try and take that right from others.
and you had the option for a safe procedure if you made that choice.
i relate to your story and did the same thing. pregnant at 19, still in college, i went to the doctor to discuss my options. knowing that i had an option made it easier for me to decide to keep my child.
now you want to take that choice away from other women? that’s not right.
Wow – what an awsome life changing, life giving story!
First of all,I am sorry for your loss. But I must ask,if adoption always is the answer then why are there so many kids in foster care?As a pro choice person,I would love to see everyone make good decisions and every child to be loved,wanted,well fed,in a secure household with enough money and attention.That is not the case.It never will be.
what is a spontaneous abortion and how in Hades were you watching it?
There may be mothers out there waiting for a baby to love, but they can adopt a few of those children already alive and waiting. There is no need to force a woman to carry a baby to term and give birth just so that some other person can have a baby. And pro-choicers are being called selfish for wanting to allow women to make decisions about their own body?
If only they pushed birth control as hard as they pushed the bible there wouldn’t be so many abortions. they don’t mind sending them off to war to die.
They are not pro-life, they are pro-birth, and there is most certainly a difference between the two.
It’s easy to send young men and women off to die when you believe in an afterlife.
Your all too right. But you forget, these people that send our children off to war, claim to believe in an afterlife. Can you imagine? God Bless the Almighty Dollar!
Hey Kevin, I see that ignorance speaks again . . .
Is making more soldiers* why neo-conservative would make abortion illegal and/or dangerous for poor people, gin , knowing that their old school, country club networks will
work just fine for the better class of young women, just as it did when abortion was last illegal ? * http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=1ysyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=w-cFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6294%2C2720496
“they don’t mind sending them off to war to die”
neither does Obama
” neither does Obama”
There is that remarkable conservative “BUT we are not really that much worse than people that we think are no good and useless.” tactic, again.
Actually dude, I don’t think you’re “no good and useless”, perhaps that’s a perception of yourself that you derived on your own accord. Nonetheless, Obama is still sending soldiers off to war to die in much the same manner as Bush did. Now, do you agree with President Bush’s foreign policy? I know I don’t and that’s because I am conservative and NOT a progressive, as Bush was…
“I know I don’t and that’s because I am conservative and NOT a progressive, as Bush was…
How interesting.
I would love to hear more about it in your own words because you are a real deal conservative.
This I know because you have said so, haven’t you ?
So beyond the left handed, passive aggressive talk double that I have to judge you by, so far what should I think all that highly nuanced hair splitting, based on your premised that Bush was “a progressive” , really means to you, dude ?
Sincerely, can you keep educating me, like you have been kind enough to decide to begin to do for me.
Thank you for all your efforts on my behalf, in advance.
Wow. Never have I seen Bush called a progressive.Amazing.
These are the same people who would have women barefoot and in burqas all in the name of their religion.
Hold hands and hang around the Capitol all you want. Just don’t interfere with a woman’s right to do what she wants with her body.
SO much of what Bangorian typed.
That’s right, Bangorian, if it feels good do it. Don’t tell them they can’t. Just don’t make them responsible for their actions.
I am in a rare agreement with Bangorian. Keep Abortion Legal!
And you don’t interfer with a childs right to live
Do you know any of us? You’re making these statements like you know exactly everything about us.
Ive always found it ironic. Liberals will kill the innocent unborn and want to spare a murderer on death row
I’ve found it ironic that conservatives don’t want to allow sex education, don’t want to allow birth control to be discussed or given, but when the baby is born, complain about the welfare mothers pumping out babies to take advantage of the system.
Well, take away the welfare and just wait and see how many mothers are “pumping out babies”. And claiming that there is some lack of availability for birth control is laughable, as you can buy condoms at every corner store for the last 30+ years.
so ignorant, so uneducated . . .
Thanks!
And Conservatives want to stop a woman from choosing, but lets execute everyone on death row and lets start even more wars in the Middle East. Sounds ironic to me as well.
Obama is starting a war right now Tracey…how ’bout Libya? The sickening democrats and progressives care more about their central banks and global usury than they would ever care about some humans…according to progressives, humans are simply a method of profit via debt slavery.
if you think obama is progressive or even liberal, you’ve missed the boat.
ive always found it ironic that conservatives want less government but want the government to tell us what to do with our bodies and our doctors.
want more conservative irony?
“Pro” lifer kills a doctor
“Pro” lifer bombs a clinic
No man has any right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
No woman has any right to abort her unborn baby’s body.
And there goes a man trying to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body.
You totally ignore the issue. A man and woman or boy and girl decided to have sex. The woman/girl now has a living human being inside of her. What right does she have to destroy that life simply because it’s an inconvenience to her? Murder on demand is all abortion is.
“She went and got pregnant”??!!???? Really?!
Anyone who makes such an ignorant statement isn’t open to listening to anyone who disagrees on this issue.
NEXT!!!
Once again, you ignore the issue. The woman who is pregnant has no ‘right’ to take the life of her unborn child, any more than you or I have the right to take the life of someone. The issue isn’t a woman’s choice, but murdering the innocent.
No, I’m not ignoring the issue. I’m not going to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body.
BTW, are you for or against the death penalty?
Of course she did that on her own ……… on purpose…… even though it was inconvenient. Imagine if there were only a 3 day window for sperm production…… or contraceptives for males. It takes two and it’s time we let males know they don’t have a choice ….. marry her or else.
That’s what we’ve been saying for years.
Totally agree. Marry her or else.
And what about the woman that is raped? Did she go and get pregnant too for “whatever reason”?
Or the woman who drank a little too much and her date took advantage of her.
I think some people want women who have sex for purposes of pleasure to pay for their sins.
arn’t you doing the same?
No.
There are people in society who want others to have a choice. A choice to have an abortion if necessary. A choice to marry one’s love, same sex or opposite.
There are others who do not want people to have such choices.
Allowing others to choose does not prevent others from choosing NOT to have an abortion. (Or NOT to “gay marry.”)
You’re twisting better than Chubby Checker tonight!
That’s why it’s called choice.If you choose not to have an abortion, feel free.You have no business butting into other taxpayers lives.
What are you babling about?
What does “babling” mean?
“Ba’bling” is a form of shiny things you wear on your fingers, around your neck, etc.
If a woman “chooses” to have a baby, you can bet that she’ll be telling you what to do with your body. Assuming that you work for a living, your ability to provide financial support is invariably tied to your body, and the use thereof. So much for equal rights.
What….? No mother has told me what to do. Well, except for my own. And my mother’s mother. And my father’s mother. Well, my boss, too. But still, I don’t understand your point.
You must not have kids.
Did you know that 61% of abortions are done on women who already have children, and more than half that have more than one child?
That, was, AWESOME!!!
“No man has any right to tell a woman what to do with her body”
Like this ?
Would You Pledge Your Virginity to Your Father?
– It’s like a wedding but with a twist: Young women exchange rings, take vows and enjoy a first dance…with their dads. “Purity balls” are the next …
http://www.glamour.com/sex-love-life/2007/01/purity-balls
lol
That is 100% disgusting.
Isn’t it just ?
It it nothing but emotion blackmail, at best, if it works, and emotional child abuse
when it does not.
so why are you telling a woman what to do with her baby?
Twist, baby, twist!
Not being a woman and the fact that I will NEVER know what it’s like to find myself pregnant, under whatever circumstances, I would never even begin to presume that I could tell any woman, known by me or not, what to do in such a circumstance.
Big Government Christians-they want big government to rule in the
moralistic way that they deem necessary. No abortions, no birth
control, no same-sex relationship recognition, no nudie bars, no
gambling on Sunday during church hours, etc. But they demand small
government when it comes to helping the needy.
God save us from these Christians.
Everyone has rights and everyone needs to keep that in mind. If you where rapped and got pregnant in that event how could you expect to want to carry that child full term. To each their own and people need to stop trying to force their opinions on others.
I agree – so you should stop stating your opinions!
should we say that to the folks at the rally? i think not. this is America, we say whatever we feel.
we’re just cool like that
I was pro choice until my wife got pregnant. At 10 weeks we had an ultrasound and the mage was a recognizable baby with a heartbeat. I remember saying out loud “it’s a baby”, and the doctor asking me what I expected to see. The truth is I didn’t expect to recognize anything. I don’t support the wholesale abolition of abortion… you know rape, incest, life of the mother and all that, you do what you need too, but an accident from broken or lack of birth control? Actions have consequences, take care of you self for nine months and give the child up. I suspect as technology gets even better more and more young people will come to the same conclusion.
” I don’t support the wholesale abolition of abortion… you know rape, incest, life of the mother and all that, you do what you need to”
… {I just oppose and would make it illegal like for ???} … “an accident from broken or lack of birth control” ,
Then you are STILL pro-choice, and as just pro-abortion as anyone that I know.
You support it when and if you approve of it , right ?
Sorry, but that is being “pro-abortion” , then, isn’t it ?
If you think not, then you are a confused, ambiguous, controlling authoritarian hypocrite,
at the very best.
Everyone has the right to do what they need to so, safely, IF anyone one has that right .
The question becomes; why do YOU think you get to decide what others are allowed to “NEED” to do ?
If you don’t like your hypocritical ways being pointed out, publicly, show me I should apologize to you by telling the people that oppose universal heath care that their actions have consequences, too, and surly cause some abortions each and every month too, please.
It’s a shame that young people today, whether gay or female, don’t understand the sacrifices others made in the generations before them so that they could have the choices they have today.
And one of the things that prove that point is that the pro choicers who demonstrated at great risk to their life are now aging out of their reproductive years.It is vital that high school and college age women get valid information to make good decisions.The antis are making sure they don’t get that.One wonders if the ERA had passed how things would be different.That wasn’t passed due to misinformation by the right.American Taliban indeed,sadly.
??? so straight men understand sacrifice and the rest of us just lull around in our ingratitude?
No. I didn’t include straight men because they are the default.
I should have said “many” young gay people and young females don’t understand the sacrifices. Many of today’s young gays and young females seem to take what they have for granted and do not get involved to help protect and keep what they have.
still waiting for someone to develop the sarcastica font so we can all understand each other.
;) thanks for your patience
I read it the same way :)
Rats! Well, *I* knew what I meant!!! ;o)
Only straight white men, silly.
It amazes me that people can be so vehemently opposed to human life. These are the same people that would literally cry over a burlap bag full of kittens. What a truly depraved group of people.
Someone I know showed me a sonogram of her five month old unborn baby the other day. I didn’t realize that they were in 3-D now. Amazing! Every little detail of the face, arms, hands, and feet were crystal clear. It would be very difficult for any mother, unless she were totally callous, to abort her unborn baby if shown one of these pictures.
You cannot legally abort a 5 month old fetus.
It depends on the state…most will allow 4 months some up to 24 weeks!
I’m on the fence about it. When you have sex you know what can happen, it isn’t rocket science, and for that reason I’m more anti than pro. I do think that babies are ‘aware’ at earlier stages than currently believed by most doctors. I’m for the morning after pill which is limited to five days after sex, but anything after a month it becomes questionable in my mind. I do think there should be some exceptions ( rape, etc..), but I don’t think abortion should be allowed quite so freely.
A fetus could not survive outside the womb after a month or even 3 months. As for when a fetus becomes aware I have no clue but I highly doubt they are.
What would a fetus be aware of?
So a baby that is a few months old can’t feel pain -belive me they can
Believe you? Why? Tell us how you know this.
A baby, is one who is already born, yes they feel pain. You do have one fact correct today.
I’m assuming you are calling a 2 month old fetus a “baby”. It isn’t and it can’t feel pain. If you knew anything about embryology you would know that at 2 months the neurological system almost completely undeveloped. The capacity to feel pain has not yet developed. You have watched the propaganda film “The Silent Scream” too many times. It has been photo-shopped and altered and the commentary is false.
“It amazes me that people can be so vehemently opposed to human life.”
It amazes me that some people can be so vehemently opposed to a good quality humane life.
Why are those that would make it illegal and dangerous again,so opposed to their tax dollars being used to educate and otherwise care for the resulting children ?
Conservatives concern for “the general welfare” and other people’s children seems to end once they are born, too, doesn’t it ?
I don’t give handouts to hobos, but I wouldn’t just stand there and watch while one was murdered either. I am concerned about their welfare, but the way to help them isn’t by signing them up for a host of government programs. I wouldn’t do that for my own children. Society needs to adopt the higher standards that we had in the past–when we insisted that people provide for themselves and their children. Raise the bar and people will strive to live up to the expectations of loved ones, friends, etc.
“watch while one was murdered either.”
I doubt you get to watch many abortions, you’ll have less chance if you were to make them illegal, again,
BUT YOU’LL NOT STOP THEM.
I think some of these people here would love to have our country be like the America in “The Handmaid’s Tale.”
I think it is funny that each and everyone of them think that THEIR religion will be the one in charge, too.
The Bible endorses abortion :
Numbers 5:11-21New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife 11 Then the LORD said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the LORD cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.Are the Priest not God’s hands on earth ?
The Bible endorses abortion :
Numbers 5:11-21New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife 11 Then the LORD said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the LORD cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.Are the Priest not God’s hands on earth ?
The Bible endorses abortion :
Numbers 5:11-21New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife 11 Then the LORD said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the LORD cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.Are the Priest not God’s hands on earth ?
Funny how 98% of those against abortion are FOR the death penalty…
Keep Abortion Legal!
What has murdering an innocent unborn baby got to do with the criminal justice system taking the life of someone who has murdered another in cold blood?
A life is a life.
Everybody cares until they are born. Then blame everything imaginable to make sure you are right when a child is bad. Like take away all medical care.
For those who are for a woman’s choice please take some time and watch this it may make you turn 180 Degrees
http://youtu.be/7y2KsU_dhwI
The Holocaust has nothing to do with abortion.
As we all know, few of those most passionate about stopping abortions care about babies once born. Most are right-wing Republicans who oppose maintaining, much less expanding, the safety net. Most lust for American involvement in war. Lest we forget, the holier than thou fanatic Gov. Rick Perry of Texas has happily executed about 250 prisoners during his decade as governor while now opposing abortions even for victims of rape and incest. To be sure, if he had a daughter who became pregnant under those circumstances, he’d suddenly become less hostile toward abortion.
The choice ultimately should be left to the woman, and though before the choice is made I’m sure much thought goes into the decision, if one were to choose an abortion I think there should still be a waiting period after that decision. It is not a choice to take lightly or quickly.
Fortunately, that bill failed in the legislature.
I am pretty sure that any woman who has made this decision is not taking it lightly. I think a waiting period is demeaning and pointless.
How is a waiting period from the initial decision to the second trip to have the procedure demeaning? You have a very different thought process once you’ve made a choice, even with things that aren’t so important many people once they’ve made a choice and committed think differently about their decision. By having a waiting period of 24 hours, once you’ve made a choice just putting that label of waiting period will really make someone think before they get to the point of no return.
I see it as telling the addle-brained female that she clearly doesn’t know the implications of this decision and that, even though she’s probably agonized over this already, she needs to paternalistic government to tell her that that’s not enough and she’s got to keep thinking about it.
because it is a decision between a woman and her doctor. the waiting period makes the assumption that the woman is incapable of making her own decision about her own body.
it’s the definition of sexism.
Yes-exactly what I was getting at.
I’m am almost 100% sure that there wouldn’t not be such “chipping away” laws on abortion if it were a male issue.
If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
There is no need for a waiting period, as it takes a little time to get the actual appointment to have an abortion. Just like any other medical appointment, it can take a week or more.
The reality of what one is going to do doesn’t set in for everyone until just before final action is taken. By putting in a “mandatory” waiting period you put a label on the subject that ultimately makes you think about what you are going to do sub-consciously or consciously. You do think about things much differently when you are told to take time to think it over. You may already have the “waiting period” from when you initially go to set up an appointment, but it’s not called a waiting period. How is it an inconvenience when the choice is still left tot he individual, and you are already waiting more than a day for the procedure. It’s not like you are going onto a lot and buying a car, but I bet if there was a waiting period on your purchase there are many people out there that wouldn’t of bought the car they chose.
You’re talking to someone who didn’t make the decision lightly, most women don’t. I chose to not have a child. Later in life I did choose to have a child, and she is a beautiful, intelligent 5 year old. I would not change the decisions I made about my own body, and my own life.
In my original post I said it wasn’t a light decision, and one that ultimately should be left to the individual. But when you put a label on something it makes you think about it differently. I know of people that think differently when they are “told” to think, than when they have to think for themselves, which they are doing. You already have to wait, just adding that label could change someones mind one way or the other. When you have a waiting period it is constantly on your mind whether at the front or sub-consciously.
no, by doing this you are telling women that we are not capable of making our own medical decisions. The government does not need to tell us to “think” about this decision, and again, during the wait time for the appointment, the decision made is constantly on your mind.
How about we start controlling men’s medical decisions. Sorry, but circumcision is mutilation in my eyes, so that is no longer allowed, on top of that it is done on an infant who can’t consent to that particular medical procedure… learn to clean yourself, us women don’t mutilate our parts like that. Vasectomy? Nope, you’re killing potential life, little blue pill? Sorry, but us women don’t want to have sex with your wrinkly 80 year old butt. I think God is telling you something here…. Oh, and btw, we have decided that these procedures and pills will no longer be covered by medical insurance. If you want any of these things, there is now a waiting period because we don’t think that you are capable of making your own medical decisions.
For serious controversial medical procedures I see no problem with a waiting period. You can have your initial appointment and then confirm by phone after your waiting period. You aren’t going to be walking in and having it done that day anyway. No one’s forcing anyone to bump skins with old people, that takes a mutual understanding and it shouldn’t be covered by public assistance, when it is for something that personal. Private insurance carriers can cover what they want.
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You aren’t going to be walking in and having it done that day anyway” <— exactly. Which is why we don't need a waiting period. There should be no controversy here, it's my body, it's my medical decision and it's not your business, nor do you or anyone else have the authority to try to change my mind on it. Get out of my medical decisions.
You are missing the psychological aspect of decision making. It is very different from walking in and saying OK. When you are told you have X amount of time and the decision is made and wheels go into motion, your thought process is much more subjective. You ultimately have final say, but subjectively many people don’t realize the ramifications of many choices as even after the thinking process the decision it self is made without the pressure of a timeline. Some times you think differently under pressure, we’ve all seen it in some form or another. It’s not like you are being told to wait for a ridiculous amount of time, and the choice is still yours to make. But all to often a little more time can make all the difference in someones decisions, whether trivial or not.
And how can ANY man really be discussing this particular point?
I see what you’re saying. But the thought that goes into making the decision to have an abortion I am sure is much more and much deeper than the thought that goes into deciding which car to buy.
But even just by saying that the woman needs to have a mandatory period called a “waiting period” so she could think further on this is telling us that women can’t be left to make this decision on their own. They need the Big Government to make them think even more on it.
Your assumption that women have not considered the enormity of having an abortion and therefore need to be “mandated” to think about it is insulting, sexist, ignorant and simply untrue.
If women need a waiting period because they are incapable of rational thought why aren’t men, hot for a low cut dress and sexy eyes, required to wait 24 hours?
EIGHTY SEVEN percent of US counties have no abortion provider.Of the remainder, most have only one.
And the conservative plan is to limit access so that the 24 week(or whatever)time period passes.Then the woman is left with no good options.
Give it up Kired, You’ve spouted every single sexist, religious, right wing argument for a waiting period and every one has been shot down. Even the Republican legislature didn’t buy those arguments.
The t an abortion is a decision made between a woman, her family and her doctor. Get you sanctimonious little nose out of personal and private decisions.
Back in the 1960’s when abortions were illegal women who wanted an abortion gave themselves the abortion, often using a coathanger. Of course, the fetus usually died and the mother had done serious harm to herself. Outlawing abortion will just return us to the barbaric system of the 60’s. Lives will not be saved.
Kevin_of_Bangor-if YOU had been conceived of rape or incest would you have been okay with being aborted? If not, you have no right to condemn unborn children to death because of the crimes of their fathers.
First of all, Kevin wouldn’t know one way or the other.
Second of all, he’s not condemning anyone. He’s supporting the MOTHER’S right to make that decision.
If you are against abortion, a legal medical procedure, don’t have one. It’s as simple as that, your personal beliefs are not the law, although many of you are trying to force your own personal beliefs onto every one else.
You are entitled to your own beliefs but you are not allowed to rule over every one else or force them to follow your personal beliefs.
Contraception is also legal, though many states are also trying to make it illegal to practice birth control/contraception (prevention of pregnancy). Many states are also trying to make miscarriage illegal, charging any woman who has a miscarriage with murder and locking her up for the remainder of her life. Again, a small minority is trying to create & enforce legislation based upon their own personal belief system.
It should be a choice for those who have been impregnated through rape or incest and especially if the life of the mother is in danger – why would you want to cause any children already born to lose their mother?
I’ve never had an abortion because that was my choice; the miscarriage I suffered was NOT a choice, it happened and I had no control over it, nor any way to prevent it.
I am pro-choice, not pro-abortion. I am also anti death penalty and anti war.
My child bearing years were over decades ago, I was pro choice then as well.
I am not the judge of who is allowed to have an abortion and neither are any of you…….. it is and should remain a personal decision; not a decision forced upon others due to their personal belief systems.
I bet a few years ago you were more than willing to judge what I was able to do with my own property when a bunch of liberal, out of state freaks decided that discrimination based on sexual orientation was illegal. Don’t like discrimination? Don’t do it, and stop trying to force your values on me.
And we have a winner for the non-sensical analogy of the week!
your, Wife is your property?
What are you referring to?
And are you saying that nobody from Maine would ever think that discrimination based on sexual orientation is bad-only those awful liberals from away?
apples and oranges
There will always be mixed emotions about abortion, we all know this. I respect a womans decision on her rights to her body. It just saddens me that if a woman can go into an abortion clinic and terminate an innocent life, if a criminal shot and killed that same pregnant woman, they’re charged with double homicide. I can cite several cases. I will always stand for the belief that “Nobody should have to have permission to be born” But its really not my say in the matter. All I can encourage is the women that really thinks this is the right thing to do. God loves us all, alive or “Terminated” by the American Medical Establishment. May God Have Mercy.
and your God has no right to be involved in my medical decisions, neither do you.
thank you for your thoughtful comment. i would just like to say that no woman (well, maybe someone out there….) but no woman has an abortion without agonizing over the decision. no one comes to that easily.
its easy for many of you to sit here and speak your opinion and bash people about abortion. well let me tell you something, its not always what you stupid people call A CHOICE. after i had my first daughter i was on birth control and became pregnant again. i went to the dr and we sat down and spoke about the danger due to a medical illness i have. i decided it didnt matter and i was going to keep the baby. a few short weeks after i became so ill to the point where i couldnt take care of my child and went to the drs. it was simply stated to me abort or you will die and most likely the baby , as my body was not strong enough to handle anther pregnancy. you think that was easy??? that it was my choice??? i am not for abortion for a woman who goes out and decides to have sex irresponsbily but for those who are in my position or those who can PROVE that they were raped im sorry thats not for anyone to decide but the one in that horrible position. you spit all over people with out knowing their story, you are no better then the ones using abortion as birth control.
Whatever side of this argument you’re on it’s the wrong side and is why the founders insisted we separate church and state. Leave it to LePage to continue to further muddy the already cloudy silt filled waters of government involvement in church matters or vice versa. Let the bludgeoning continue.
It works both ways.The Henry Hyde that conservatives so love was accused of mishandling evidence in death penalty cases.The media skipped that story.And how how about Rick (243)Perry-the pro life blowhard?
What is your the plan for all the children that will need a home,healthcare,clothing,food and an education including college.
Until you address this and not just the feel good issue of pro life you will not be able to convince me that you have the best interest of the children in mind.
Keenov–perhaps you are unaware of the Obama-non-healthcare act, which targets seniors( and you will be one, one day); it is touted as the Affordable Healthcare Act, but is not favorable to seniors or the disabled or the unborn. Perhaps a good research of the facts would help your disposition.
Perhaps you could present some facts…
Paying for a triple bi-pass for someone in there 90’s is foolish, filling an 80 year old with, mega drugs just to keep them live, when they are all be dead is foolish, a I’ve seen this happen time and time again. Pouring food down someone throat, when they can’t say the words I don’t want that, is cruel! death is a part of life, and should be let happen when the time comes and you can’t be made well.
The nursing home racket is alive and well.I worked in an NH where there was a woman in her 90’s blind,incontinent,no visitors,no life.I left there 4.5 years later and she was still hooked up to tubes at $300++ per day.
then why is it supported by the AARP? so they can kill off their own members?
lol.
The “dumbing down” of Americans began many years ago, and some responses I have read are very evident of that.
Two things: “Anti-Choice”, not “Pro-Life”, and what happened to the separation of church and state? Classic Paul LePage.
Two things: “Anti-Choice” is the more PC term, not “Pro-Life”. Also, whatever happened to the separation of church and state? Classic Paul LePage.
sfas
Perhaps the catholic church should concentrate more on the illegal acts of their pedophile clergy than worrying about women utilizing a legal avenue to control their bodies.
That’s why they want more kids-a steady stream of altar boys to rape in the future.And keep in mind they pay no taxes yet stick their noses in other people’s business.
So if embryos are people…
And corporations are people…
Are embryos corporations?
LMAO!
As Stephen Colbert said, if corporations are people, then Mitt Romney is a serial killer.
lol. super like!
Rally behind something we don’t have control over.
Abortion? Come on…how many pro lifers are in favor of war? Come on
And who in their right mind wants to bring children into this world? Talk about clueless and extremely selfish. The world is not a soap opera or a sit com.
Why push your feelings onto someone else? Let them decide about their body. Worry about yourself.
To me, being pro-life also means being anti-war (people get killed!) and anti-capital punishment (people get killed using tax dollars!) and pro-early childhood education and nutrition. Are not people who are already alive and breathing worth your help and energy? Are these demonstrators really “pro-life” ?
If you want to reduce the number of abortions, I can’t really argue with you, but you’d better also be in favor of sex education for teens, and prosecuting adult men who have sex with teen girls, and reducing domestic violence, and other means of reducing the need for abortions.
And the rest of us will peacefully fight for the rights of the innocent mothers who have every right to determine what happens to and in their bodies.