AUGUSTA, Maine — Gov. Paul LePage on Tuesday leaned over a table at the bottom of the large staircase outside his office and signed a document titled “A Call to Prayer for Maine.”
More than two dozen legislators, including Senate President Kevin Raye, R-Perry, and Speaker of the House Robert Nutting, R-Oakland, and Attorney General William Schneider also signed the paper, designed to resemble the nation’s early documents such as the Declaration of Independence.
By signing the document Tuesday, the public officials and ordinary Mainers declared their support for prayer in the public square and a commitment to see that the motto “In God We Trust” is not just a phrase stamped on currency but words to live by, organizers said.
The event was sponsored by the Maine Legislative Prayer Caucus, which is associated with PrayUSA, a group funded by the Congressional Prayer Caucus Foundation Inc., based in Chesapeake, Va.
The main goal of prayer caucuses at the U.S. Capitol in Washington and six state legislatures, now including Maine’s, is “to preserve the Judeo-Christian heritage of our nation and protect the right of Americans to publicly pray and trust in God,” according to PrayUSA’s website.
PrayUSA’s roots go back to 2005, when members of the U.S. House of Representatives began meeting in Room 219 of the Capitol every week to pray. On Nov. 18, 2005, a bipartisan group of representatives initiated and signed the original Call to Prayer Proclamation and asked Americans to join them and pray for the nation. The state proclamation is similar to the document signed by a group of elected officials in Congress.
“We stand at the threshold of another significant crossroads: either to acknowledge and embrace the vibrant character of our spiritual heritage or to plunge headlong into the postmodern void — a value-neutral and amoral vacuum that endeavors to deconstruct much of what we hold sacred,” the Call to Prayer for Maine states.
“We, the undersigned, who believe in prayer and the Judeo-Christian principles that remind us that our rights come from almighty God, are united in this proclamation,” the document concludes. “Accordingly, this day we respectfully and humbly issue a ‘Call to Prayer’ for the State of Maine and invite Mainers everywhere to pray that God will continue to bless this country, our noble state and the freedom for which they stand.”
There has been an informal prayer group made up of legislators in Augusta for many years, Rep. David C. Burns, R-Whiting, co-chairman of Maine’s prayer caucus with Rep. Dale Crafts, R-Lisbon, said at the opening of the hourlong event in Augusta. On Tuesday, it became a formal caucus of the Legislature.
The prayer caucus meets at 8 a.m. Tuesdays, and discussion of bills or legislative issues is strictly forbidden, Burns said. As many as 30 lawmakers attend, depending on their schedules.
About 100 people gathered in the Hall of Flags for Tuesday’s ceremony to support the idea of prayer in public and to pledge to pray for lawmakers. There was no organized opposition to the event.
Carrie Pearl of Charleston came to Augusta with other members of the Charleston Pentecostal Church.
“[This event] gives me hope our Legislature is moving on the right path,” she said. “We’re here to show them that being a Christian isn’t a bad thing.”
Bob Garrett of Sidney is a Catholic. He said that he prays every day for elected leaders in Augusta and Washington, D.C.
“We pray for them because we want them to make good decisions,” he said. “As a society we need to come back to prayer. If you take prayer out of our society, things are only going to get worse.”
The Call to Prayer for Maine document also describes what public servants who believe in the power of prayer might pray for: “humility in governance, wisdom in decision-making, courage in times of testing, and providence for God’s favor and blessing.”
Burns and Sen. Cynthia Dill, D-Cape Elizabeth, both said they appreciated it when constituents told them that they included them and other legislators in their prayers. Dill was one of a handful of Democrats to attend the event.
She said in a telephone interview Tuesday afternoon that her schedule does not allow her to attend the prayer caucus but she is there in spirit. Dill is a member of and taught Sunday school for five years at the First Congregational Church in South Portland.
“I am a Christian who believes in same-sex marriage, choice and social justice,” she said. “Clearly my moral compass comes from all the teachings I’ve had in my life, from my parents and my church.”
Dill said she attended Tuesday’s event to support the freedom to worship assured to all Americans in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and the recent vote in Congress reaffirming “In God We Trust” as the national motto.
For information on A Call to Prayer for Maine, visit http://calltoprayermaine.org/.
Many of the individuals that originally invaded the Americas might have had Judeo-Christian roots but the USA is not a Judeo-Christian country. Our constitution recognizes no religion while supporting the right to practice any religion (or no religion) as it pleases the individual. While I support any individual’s right to pray, meditate, chant, or perform any other type of religious expressions, it should not be an act of government to promote these actions. The role of government is to allow and not hinder religious expression of any type.
Ahhhh, this is not “an act of government”, this event is sponsored by and organized primarily by the Maine Legislative Prayer Caucus.
Did you read the article? The role of government is being implemented precisely as you outlined in your last sentence, the government is allowing this group to partake in their own form of religous expression. Simply because they are doing so at the state house and some religous members of our legislature are participating does not mean the event was initiated by the government.
I wonder how many of those Legistlator’s will be there for their belief’s or just to pander to a special interest group. We know the governor has no interest in his fellow man, let alone to treat them as he wants to be treated.
For some its ALL about votes!
Article [I]13
Congress
shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging
the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the
people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for
a redress of grievances.
It would seem the Constitution (founding fathers) did not want a “State Religion” like the church of England to be formed and people forced to belong to it. It does seem they don’t want free exercise of religion to be prohibited, along with peaceful assembly. If a group wants to get together and pray it seems that is their right. The problem is the courts have decided to read things into the Constitution that is not there.
The Supreme Court has the 10 Commandments on the walls. We have In God We Trust on our money. Religion has been a part of our country since its beginning.
Why is it the President of the United States ends his oath of office with the words “So Help Me God” and takes the oath with his hand on the bible? We are so busy trying to change history, lets let people pray the way they want and move on.
“lets let people pray the way they want and move on”
Exactly…if some people need to belive in God and go to church in order to keep them on a good path in life, where they respect others and the rule of law, then so be it. Who are we to question another human’s approach to living out their short life on this planet, so long as they cause no harm to others?
So you agree with this statement then?
“Believers should have all the say so in influencing government and that’s the intent of our founding fathers that we need to be free to influence our legislators, our leaders and fearing god and leading this country in a godly manner,” said Representative Dale Crafts.
No I don’t. The part I disagree with is his claim that they should have “all the say so”. I believe folks who worship god should have just as much access as the rest of us to influence our legislature. To believe otherwise would support tyranny.
Also, I don’t live in Rep. Crafts’ district, but if I did, there would be some phone calls and some serious questions as to what he meant by that statement. It is a rather disturbing quote.
Yes, it is a very distrubing comment but he did say it.
“I believe folks who worship god should have just as much access as the rest of us to influence our legislature. To believe otherwise would support tyranny. ”
Who said they do not ?
To imply that they do not have the same voice as anyone else
is promoting tyranny as it would be operated by the American Fundamentalists, the Theocratic Dominionists,
or the “christian” Ayatollahs, for short .
It is these “christians” who speak openly of overthrowing the US Government, and using our military to conquer the world
…. and thus hasten it’s end.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/10/2/205320/729
Or from a simple primer like web site
… a sort of all you could ever want to know about the NAR thingy:
Dominionism
Dominionism is the belief that Christians are mandated to influence and control the government (more accurately the world) based on God’s Laws within the Bible manifested as political philosophy and subsequent machinations.
In short, Christian laws and people should influence every facet of the culture and “secularism and pluralism” should be eradicated.
There is an inherent belief that Christians are superior to secular or non-Christian laws or people.
There are three overarching beliefs of Dominionism.
They are:
Christian Nationalism:
The belief that the Unites States of America is a Christian Nation and was founded as such. This whole “Separation of Church and State” concept is a trick by godless, liberal secularists. Probably Marxist Nazi Islamic Socialist Atheists.
Christian Religious Supremacy:
Obviously they do not hold other religions, or the lack thereof, in high regard. Christianity is the only true religion. The rest are evil, wicked ,and infected with demons sent by Satan to corrupt. This belief even extends to other sects of Christianity.
Christian views on Biblical law should be reflected in or usurp secular, American laws:
On a spectrum this could range from something fairly innocuous like a vague wish to return to 1950’s Americana to a complete theocracy, in which Biblical laws are carried out to the point where homosexuals and blasphemers are stoned to death.
http://lefthemispheres.blogspot.com/2011/11/dominionism-primer-on-christian.html
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS ;
GIVEN THEY ARE HAPPY TO SPEAK FOR ALL CHRISTIANS,
AND DO SO AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE,
TO NOT SPEAK OUT AGAINST THESE WOLVES IN WOOL SUITS IS BEING A TRAITOR TO YOUR NATION, IT’S VALUES, IF NOT TO YOUR PERSONAL FAITH
… IN ANYTHING THAT IS GOODLY AND JUST.
Exactly…Just dont make the State House —Church!
None of those are in reference to a specific god. They can be referenced to any god. Moses wrote the Ten Commandments, not god.
I’m gonna hate getting involved, but the judeo-christian god wrote the commandments (which originally numbered the same as the seeds in a pomegranate) on the tablets that Moses shattered when he threw them down in anger after seeing the golden bull (bahl). He had to go back up the mount and carve the second set himself (which would seem to be the Reader’s Digest version). If you’re going to interject with an atheist remark, just remember there’s no archeological proof that Moses existed either.
Personally, I’m just a curious agnostic.
Wrong . . . again.
OK……..if you say so. Guess I’m wrong, all of that catholic stuff I went through…..is wrong!
Or no god? Just as valid since neither can be proven or disproven.
I never did understand the act of having people swear on a bible or say so help me god. Personally I can’t wait until someone says give me a Kuran, or a
Bhagavad-Gita, or a Torah for my oath. For me it would be better to have me swear on a copy of the constitution. This is the only document that really has any meaning to me.
let people pray the way they want and move on.
I would be cool with that as long as everyone knew there might be three or four guys that are praying to a cow. Or a couple of Haitians in the back dancing around a fire, and pouring chicken blood all over each other.
Sound good to everyone?
Hate to break it to you but “in god we trust” phrasing was only added to governmental documents during the 1950’s. It took until 1966 for it to be on all our currency, starting with coins in 1864. It has nothing to do with our founders.
And you do understand that “In god we trust” was added to our paper money, correct? I cross out the word god on every single paper note that comes across my hands and yes, doing so is 100% legal.
The President is also not required to end his oath with “So help me god” but you seem to not understand that either.
The United States of America was also not founded as a Christian nation as so many Christians love to claim.
“Why is it the President of the United States ends his oath of office with the words “So Help Me God” and takes the oath with his hand on the bible? We are so busy trying to change history, lets let people pray the way they want and move on.”
1) Re: “the oath with his hand on the bible?”
The POTUS has never been a Hindi.
2) Re “We have In God We Trust on our money. Religion has been a part of our country since its beginning.” :
Tory agents, Theocratic elitists and monarchists have undermined the Founding Father’s concepts and the US Constitution.
BTW, When, exactly, WAS “In God WE Trust” added to our currency
… in a dreaded attempt to change US History ?
I’m older than that.
lol
“In God We Trust” was added by …….you may laugh…..the Mason’s. Washington, Franklin and many others were mason’s. A very secretive, yet religious group. The pyramid with the eye?….masonic. Funny thing is, the masons have evolved throughout our history; there was no common federal currency until the middle of the civil war, but yet, those masons made it through, which in a way is quite enlightening, yet disturbing at the same time.
So I want to know if everyone is going to be cool if a van full of Muslims shows up with their little rolled up carpets? Or maybe a coven of witches shows and starts casting spells at the state house? How about a bus of atheists that just stand outside and Booooo the whole time?
That’s why this should be done in a church.
Besides, that crowd in Augusta gives Christians and Christianity a bad name:
What did Jesus really say ?
<> King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
“But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
I’d like to see us organize the Maine Legislative Let’s Get Back to Work and Accomplish Something Caucus. If the best these clowns can come up with is praying, then we’re sunk.
Amen!
Rick Perry denounced the Science of Climate Change,
when Texas experianced a drought he held a prayer vigil,
Texas got wildfires!
…and record breaking heat this past summer!
The problem that I have is the original intent of the seperation of Church and State.
Some of these TEA People worship the Grover Norquist Tax Pledge!
The proclamation above states-
“We stand at the threshold of another significant crossroads: either to
acknowledge and embrace the vibrant character of our spiritual heritage
or to plunge headlong into the postmodern void — a value-neutral and
amoral vacuum that endeavors to deconstruct much of what we hold
sacred,”
I’d
like to remind all that it wasn’t the church that brought about an end
to slavery, advancements in civil rights, and child labor laws, it was
the “value-neutral and amoral vacuum” our prayer caucus disdains so
vehemently.
The Judeo Christian spirit of our founding fathers saw no problem with slavery, child labor, women’s suffrage and a multitude of other issues our secular government has corrected.
I agree with your comments, other than the “invaded” part. Because, there is really no such thing as a “native” american. No human beings, of any nationality or traits, are indigenes to this continent.
If you really want to get down to it there are no indigenous people anywhere except for perhaps Africa where current Homo Sapiens originally evolved. Yes, the First Nations did not evolve in the Americas but they were her for at least 10,000 years after arriving across the Bering land bridge. They had established a culture and had become part of the natural landscape. When the Europeans invaded the Americas the First Nations were the indigenous peoples of the continent (Aztec, Toltec, Mayan, and all the North American Nations). Just like the Picts were the indigenous people of Great Britain when the Vikings invaded, the First Nations People were the indigenous people of the Americas when the Europeans invaded this area of the world. The fact that the Europeans intended to take possession of and supplant anything or an person currently settled in the Americas when they arrived supports the context and definition of the word invade.
Cheers
You forgot chapter one. The first microbe shagged the second microbe and then there were three, and so on, and so on. And behold, here we are! Still stealing from each other, and still killing each other. Some get over it, some don’t. Some have their minds stuck in the past and their bodies in the present, while saving for the future. By the way brainiac, you’re preaching to the choir. I’m part Mi’kmaq, and you are amassit. Wapek, wisawek, mekwek, maqtewek, it makes no difference.We are all just jinm and epit. Elquta’tut. I prefer samqwan.
Gotta drop this in here…
“Believers should have all the say so in influencing government and that’s the intent of our founding fathers that we need to be free to influence our legislators, our leaders and fearing god and leading this country in a godly manner,” said Representative Dale Crafts.
I believe that when the constitution was written it was pretty much assumed that everyone involved with forming the government was Christian, so it did not really need to be stated. However, the Declaration of Independence has Judeo-Christian ideas all through it. America is a Christian nation, like it or not. We are certainly not a perfect Christian nation, but we are most definitely improving, and we owe a debt of gratitude to all those who challenge us to be better Christians, and stronger in our faith. Thank You, and God Bless.
Not true. Many of the signers of the Constitution were Deists. Washington for one.
Not true. Sounds “acceptable” for a PBS documentary though.
Some people just cant seem to make the seperation..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KgsQtu8MY4
Are Christians the only group allowed to attend? And not to steal from Carlin, but why would God favor the United States over any other country? Are we not all His children? Does He not like the people of the Middle East? Or Russia? I guess He somehow picked us as His favorite. I think He is a Pats fan. God bless America….and may every other country burn in Hell.
It seems like it. So now only one religion has a monopoly on prayer?
Separation of Church and State. That’s what separates America from the Taliban.
I do believe that there is a higher power. However I do believe that that higher power expects us mere mortals to work with the tools he has provided us.
Elected officials in this country are not put into office to pray for us. That is the job of religious leaders.
Isn’t it curious that yet another un-elected group is circulating a pledge for our elected officials to sign? I do believe that when they are sworn into office that the pledge that is given then should suffice. Makes me wonder if one of these pols runs for re-election and hasn’t signed the pledge, how long will it be for his/her opponent to call them pagans or atheist because of that.
Would it be too much to ask that our elected officials get to work solving the real problems of this state? Prayers and hand wringing don’t seem to be working very well. If things don’t work out will they start to blame god for not answering their prayers???
“Oh dear imaginary bearded sky man, please help us survive our current governor’s reign of error. Amen”
I prefer Invisible Sky Wizard, yours is good but it might offend those who think god is a woman. And make sure you send that prayer out to the lil fat guy who always looks so happy, the dude with four arms, and just in case, better include the Jewish Middle Eastern carpenter who for some reason is always depicted as a white guy.
Pastafarian. http://www.venganza.org/about/ Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Only Pastafari “Believers should have all the say so in influencing government and that’s the intent of our founding fathers that we need to be free to influence our legislators, our leaders and fearing god and leading this country in a godly manner,” said Representative Dale Crafts.
“I love the Constitution…except the parts I don’t like…”
….
Where do their rights come from, God or Government?
….
According to him, god gives rights. So, I guess it’s safe to assume that god gave Osama Bin Laden and Adolf Hitler their rights as well? And it’s awfully funny that god grants us the right to collect taxes, wage wars, get rich……..but doesn’t allow school children to pray daily in a public school.
Get real.
Actually, there is no natural right to kill another human being. That’s a pretty straight forward concept. Apparantly, you have a bit of trouble understanding political and government philosophy as well as the derivation of the rights of man. That’s OK, what would one expect with deficient public education system we have allowed to grow up around our corrupted government. I’d suggest you start with the Magna Carta and then move forward through history to achieve a better understanding.
Oh, and by the way, I would prefer to use the term creator, rather than God…because I don’t believe in God. And of course, that is my natural right to hold such a belief, or lack thereof.
If you use the word “creator”, then it wouldn’t be an issue. As far as I’m concerned, that’s all god has given us, life and intentionally left the rest up to us. As far as the Magna Carta is concerned, it’s just another man made idea, written on a piece of paper which stripped the monarch in England of all ruling power and established that right to the people. It also established the idea of a “republic”. Again, it is a man made idea, a man made document. At the time of it’s inception, the church was powerful and any reference to god was in deference to it. Yet, the magna carta does not allow the church any regulatory rights now does it? Lastly, though the magna carta’s idea was used by our founding fathers, our constitution intentionally does not replicate it, our founding father’s had a better idea.
And your negativity towards public schools, and deficient government is not going to be eased by a form of worship, especially a right wing religious zealot group.
And I did not mention anything about killing people, I doubt if you can answer your own question and make it viable, because you know that god has nothing to do with governing.
LOL…republics most certainly predate the magna carta, see Rome and ancient Greece for starters. And the reason I suggested the document was simply that if one follows the lineage of our common law system we currently use today, one would ultimately arrive at the magna carta and the establisment of the rights of man, we basically know today.
Hitler and Bin Laden are killers, you invoked their names and then made a veiled claim that God gave them the right to do so. That is a false argument. And your claim that we have a “right” to collect taxes and wage war is completely false as well. The whole point is that you DON’T have that right, becasue in carrying out those actions, you violate the inalienable rights of others (e.g. theft through taxation and destruction of private property through war). As far as getting rich, everyone has a right to own property, so amassing the fruits of ones labor is certainly a right, as long as others’ rights are not infringed upon in the process. And your right, God has nothing to do with the act of governing, just in the act of providing man a set of natural law over which they must decide how best to govern.
….
They come from the living document called the Constitution, they come from a nation of people who have decided that these rights are just and fair and thus maintain these rights. They are based on years of learning what not to do, and usually those what not to do lessons were learned from a society where Christianity held power. These rights are living and ever changing, just as our society is living and ever changing. We the people, that is where these rights come from, and who they are maintained by.
Actually you are wrong. Your inalienable rights (those outlined in the constitution) come from your “creator”, whoever you choose to belive that is, is up to you. The reason this is important is that these rights do NOT come from man (i.e. government) and as such cannot be voted away by others in the society, hence the term inalienable. The existence and protection of these inalienable rights is what separates a republic from a true democracy. We are a republic. Well, at least we were….
Really? Cause i do not remember ever seeing The Creators signature on the document that has these rights as the basis of our society. I recall a lot of signatures from men who fought tyranny and injustice. The Bible is rigid, never changing, and the basis for a lot of hate. The PEOPLE who were the architects of our freedoms knew this, so they based this new republic on the idea that the document that we base it on should be as alive and ever changing as the society that created it. Besides, a massive explosion does not think, so it doesn’t grant anything.
And it’s funny how those same creators made it a point to make sure that church was and is separate. And it’s also the reason why within this separation, it is unlawful to impede upon anyone’s right to worship ANY god, not just the long grey haired man in the sky.
The founders felt it was a natural right for humans to speak freely and worship as they please, correct. This is why they protected that natural right from others (including the government) by creating a republican form of government, where inalienable rights were granted and protected by the collective force of law.
Again, you’re wrong. If the rights enshrined in the constitution are derived from the People, as you claim, then why can’t the People vote away my 2nd amendment right to bear arms? Why can’t the people vote away my first amendment right to free speech?
The reason they can’t is that these rights are endowed upon us by our creator (sound familiar?) and therefore, no mortal soul can rightfully take them away, they are inalienable. The People signed the constitution of the United States to instill a national republic that was comprised of the original 13 states, technically a federation as opposed to the confederation we were under the Articles of Confederation prior to the constitution. Therefore, those who signed the constitution were simply setting up a form of government to protect the natural rights they felt they were endowed with. They did not specifically create the rights through the document, the objective was to protect their natural rights from a potential future tyrannical government and not allow them to be voted away by a majority of the people, as would be possible in a democracy.
Unfortunately, with legislation such as the Patriot Act and the National Defense Authorization Act, we are allowing the protections of that document slip through our fingers as we wade deeper and deeper into the waters of tyranny.
The people can vote away our rights to free speech and rights to bear arms just like the people voted to prohibit the use of alcohol then a few years later reversed that decision. The constitution can be changed, not easily but it can be changed, including the rights penned in this document.
Yes, you can change it through the amendment process, as was intended. How long did prohibition last? How likely do you think it will be that 3/4 of the state legislatures would embrace the direct suppression of a right outlined in the Bill of Rights?
Yea, you wanna see your rights vanish? The President can declare martial law during times of crisis. You have no rights other than those the President decides to give you during those times. And not to sound redundant, but a massive explosion doesn’t grant anyone anything.
Do you even know what the word “republic” means? It means a type of government that is absent of a single monarch. It means it is a form of government where people collectively govern, typically by voting. It is a MAN made word, and description and in latin means “public affair”. God doesn’t have anything at all to do with a republic.
Again, I never said god had anything to do with a republic. Do you have reading comprehension problems? I am talking about the rights we are provided simply by being born into this world and, thankfully, living in a free society with a republican form of government versus the perilous nature of a true democracy. The discussion of God pertains to the origin of the rights that the system of government protects.
You mentioned the constitution in your post, and how it is related a “creator”. At the end of your post you mentioned the republic. The Constitution is an idea of men, that had an idea because they supported another man made idea, called the Magna Carta. Religion is protected in both of these man made ideas. Religion is also excluded from being a participant in both.
God did not grant any rights to man, he made them equal. Equality is the origin that god desired. God did not want his children to die in his behalf, but they have. God did not want people to be slaves, but they were, God always forgives, man does not.
Equality is what Jesus sought, and he was murdered, by man. We all seek equality, but we aren’t going to get it from man, hence, the prohibition and separation of church and state. Because man made churches, god is a belief.
Because there is no church, no belief, no religion that is any closer to god, than a man’s heart. Our founding father’s knew this, saw this and were weary of it. They correctly decided that it is up to men, and all of their beliefs, not just one.
Think about it. Native Americans worship the earth: things that you feel, touch, smell, taste, hear, and exist upon. Christianity is based on some stone tablets and a couple of books.
Government decides the rules of society, because if god decided……there wouldn’t have been any wars fought in his name, and there would not be a plethora of religions. And we wouldn’t be in the mess that we are in today as it regards society as a whole.
That’s a sophomoric question.
Who was asking about the “rules of society”? I am talking about human rights, not the law that protects those rights. And I challenge your claim of it being a sophmoric question, considering the fact that you couldn’t even comprehend what was being asked, let alone provide a rational response.
God is good;
God is great:
Get off your butts, AND LEGISLATE!
The separation of church and state is very clear in the constitution. This is the Maine Christian Civic League, a far-right tea party supporting entity that is using this as a soap box. We already have one Tea party member on a soap box, creating chaos and gloom and doom, we don’t need them. And it’s illegal. That State House belongs to us. Not the legislators.
“The separation of church and state is very clear in the constitution.”
hmmmm…where would that be?
Could you site the article please?
The First Amendment reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” It goes on to quantify that religion cannot be used to qualify those in public office.
The Establishment Clause and the Free Speech Clause are both found in the 1st amendment. Thought of by Thomas Jefferson, who had the insight to determine that religion has no place in government.
It doesn’t. It shouldn’t, and never has. That’s the reason why prayer is not allowed in public schools. I’m not going to cite an article, you can google “US Constitution, 1st Amendment”
You can also find the separation prohibition in the Maine constitution in Article 1 Section 3…it specifically mentions; teachers, public offices and contracts.
Very good…glad to see you know the constitution, I’ve read it hundreds of times. There is absolutely nothing illegal about a religous group visiting the state houes and praying with some religous members of the legislature. In fact, restricting their ability to undertake such action would be illegal, as you would prohibiting the free exercise of their religion. There is no qualifier being implemented for those in public office. And there is most certainly nothing wrong or illegal with a religous legislator interacting with his/her constituent, participating in a religous event.
Not what this article is about. Each and every session, each and every day of the session is started off with a prayer. Praying at the statehouse isn’t the issue; The legislative prayer council is the problem. It’s a deliberate attempt to connect religion with the legislative branch, and I’m against any and all organized legislative groups where religion is a requisite.
Religion is fine, prayer is fine, but the religion and the legislative branch cannot co-mingle and need to remain separate.
They are separate and you are simply being a reactionary. Claiming these people have no right to pray at the state house is a violation of their first amendment rights.
So much for the constitution I guess…
They are called the “Legislative Prayer Caucus”, the word’s legislative and caucus are both words that together reflect that this is the a legislatively supported government function. And this is a concerted group effort to involve a particular religion with the legislative process. It’s different than just a prayer. If you have ever visited the state house frequently, you would find that the morning prayers offered each day is offered by a multitude of religions, and sometimes even a house or senate member.
This isn’t a “prayer group”, and if it is, the state house is a public building. It’s not their rights that are being violated, it’s ours.
“It’s not their rights that are being violated, it’s ours”
Oh really, how is your first amendment right being violated? It’s not. If you are this upset about it, goup to the state house and protest. If you’d like, file a lawsuit. But I guarantee, the court would throw your case out in a heartbeat, as your argument is completely irrational.
I don’t need to go to the state house, and I don’t want to go. I spent 8 years there, and have no desire to go back. I didn’t say “my” constitutional right, I said ours.
The separation of church and state is succinct. If they want to meet, then they can do it at the church. You know damn well why the Me. Christian Civic League is there. They are a right wing, anti abortion, (among others) group that is only trying to weasel their opinion and intigrate themselves into the legislative process. Even the appearance of such would constitute a violation of BOTH the US and Maine’s constitution.
The Maine Christian Civic League is the church of choice among many Tea Party members, it ought not to be using the statehouse as the forum for their little prayer meeting. I’ve already written the Speaker, the Senate President, and the Minority members of both house and senate. They have enough to work on.
Mike Heath, the former Executive Director of the Me. Christian Civic League now works for…….Ron Paul, a Tea Party Candidate for President. Don’t you find it suspicious that they are doing this prior to Maine’s Republican caucus???? Get rid of it.
So basically you are just another anti-tea party, anti-liberty tyrant that wants to supress the voice of a faction people who simply want utilize their right to free speech and petition their government. Just because you are an atheist and are bigoted against those that believe in God, gives you no right to supress their first amendment right. And your claim that this is unconstitutional is a flat out joke. If it were, there would be lawsuits flying already, as this is not the first occasion. These people are doing no harm to your property or infringing upon your liberty. Why don’t you just learn to tolerate the views of others and get off your immoral power trip.
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” – Thomas Jefferson
I’m sure you’d be perfectly fine allowing atheist legislators to form an Anti-Prayer Caucus and denounce God in the State House.
I’m not an atheist, I’m a confirmed Catholic. I’m not bigoted, I want the same thing that Jesus desired, equality. If they desire to exercise their first amendment rights, then they will need to adhere to the first amendment, which includes the separation of church and state first, freedom of speech second, in that precise order.
I’ve never ever heard of an immoral power trip?, strange choice of words and I’m not so sure that you know what it means. Though I’m catholic, and I really don’t care what religion you follow, what makes you, or I, any more moral than anyone else?
Take another look at what Mr. Jefferson said, as you quoted. Operative word is “liberty”, a word used in the context that it applies to all, liberty includes our government not being influenced by religion.
I wonder what the reaction would be to a Muslim prayer caucus in the legislature? Constitutional?
The proclamation above states-
“We stand at the threshold of another significant crossroads: either to
acknowledge and embrace the vibrant character of our spiritual heritage
or to plunge headlong into the postmodern void — a value-neutral and
amoral vacuum that endeavors to deconstruct much of what we hold
sacred,”
I’d like to remind all that it wasn’t the church that brought about an end to slavery, advancements in civil rights, and child labor laws, it was the “value-neutral and amoral vacuum” our prayer caucus disdains so vehemently.
“Believers should have all the say so in influencing government and that’s the intent of our founding fathers that we need to be free to influence our legislators, our leaders and fearing god and leading this country in a godly manner,” said Representative Dale Crafts.
“Believers should have all the say so in influencing government …”
That is what all the ayatollahs say.
Welcome to America.
“believers”, anyway you spin it, means the opposite of infidels, doesn’t it ?
So who gets to decide who the true believers are in America ?
But Kevin, how funny it that GOTea options are boiling down to a recent convert to the Roman Church
who has been divorced how many times
and a follower of the Moronic Heresy?
( If the angel’s name was “Moroni ” it is so “Moronic”, at least to true believers in proper English. )
Next thing we will have LePage “Tebowing”.
Three cheers.
Benevolent and Almighty God, we beseech thee to deliver us from these liberals who wish to steal our money, turn our children into sodomites, and tell us how to live our lives.
“Benevolent and Almighty God, we beseech thee to deliver us from these liberals …”
Is that the Official Prayer of the Neo-Pharisees ?
http://youtu.be/vyMYu_cAoWA
Thank you US Constitution for the right to freely assemble and express ourselves, as no other nation is allowed by their government. Thank you Founding Fathers for your wisdom and foresight to put together the US Constitution and base many of it’s prinicpals and truthes from the 10 Commandments found in the Holy Bible that help your citizens know right from wrong. May God continue to Bless the United States of America!!
If they want to pray let them pray, but they better defend other people’s forms of prayer if they want to promote their own. Every one is equal right?
Everyone deserves equal treatment under the law…we are most certainly not all equal, if we were, we’d all be as talented as Tom Brady…we’re not.
No, their way is “The Way” Everyone else is wrong a doomed to an eternity in a fire pit.
Get this religious nonsense out of my public buildings. I pay taxes to support public policy, not to support bronze age mythology. If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Iran. Don’t try to bring that kind of crap here, and don’t give me any baloney about this being a christian nation. It isn’t. These meathead legislators really opught to pay attention to the laws of the land they supposedly serve.
Lol Bronze Age? wow you are being kind. But then again since Christianity thinks the Earth is only about 6000 years old, Bronze Age is prob a good call
If we can’t have murals depicting labor history in the Dept. of Labor building, why do they think we can have prayer in a government building.
I sure wish they would publish the list of legislators who signed this prayer pledge.
Indeed they should. And if your a bigot who can’t except that there are people out there that are different from you and have different values in life, then you should do all you can to get these legislators voted out and replace them with another individual who shares your bigotted view.
I completely understand that there are people with different views than my own, and all i ask is equal treatment. When the Christians call gay people immoral and rant about how they are ruining the world, it is protected speech due to religious freedom. Yet somehow when a person decides, based on 2000 years of evidence, that Christians are not in line with the American view of equality for all no matter their race, sexual orientation, or religion, and speak out against Christianity, it is hate speech. Why is that?
Where can I find this American view that you talk about ? I’d like to see the words race , sex and religion in print somewhere . Please reference your statement.
If wanting my elected officials to not show fielty to any outside non-elected group and instead put these pledges aside and work for all the people of their districts and state makes me a bigot. Then I wear the badge of bigotry proudly.
Non elected groups are a faction of the people that you claim the elected officials should be working for. What gives you the right to suppress their voices and concerns in their peaceful petition of government?
Then please request your legislator to introduce a bill banning lobbiests from politics ! Take a look at this website http://www.buddyroemer.com
Article [I]13
Congress
shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging
the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the
people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for
a redress of grievances.
It would seem the Constitution (founding fathers) did not want a “State Religion” like the church of England to be formed and people forced to belong to it. It does seem they don’t want free exercise of religion to be prohibited, along with peaceful assembly. If a group wants to get together and pray it seems that is their right. The problem is the courts have decided to read things into the Constitution that is not there.
The Supreme Court has the 10 Commandments on the walls. We have In God We Trust on our money. Religion has been a part of our country since its beginning.
Why is it the President of the United States ends his oath of office with the words “So Help Me God” and takes the oath with his hand on the bible? We are so busy trying to change history, lets let people pray the way they want and move on.
So what happens when we elect a Jewish or Musslim President? Will we require them to place their hand on a book they have no belief in?
The problem is that the underlying assumption is that this is a Christian country and everything else is somehow less than, if not actively suspect.
I do not worship a Christian god, yet when I served on a jury last month, I was impelled to raise my hand and swear, “So Help Me God,” and I was there under threat of fine and imprisonment if I did not appear.
I have no problem performing a civic duty, but I should not be forced to affirm allegiance to another religion as part of that.
You were under no legal oligation to swear to “God” in order to serve on a jury. A request to the person swearing you in or to the judge to eliminate the phrase was probably in order. Or you could have simply skipped that portion of the document. I’ve had to remind some of our govt. officials that there really is no “religious test” for doing your civic duties.
I must say that dating back to the Magna Charter, a basis in law still in effect today, thank God, that proclaims that each human being, being a spiritual being, has the sovereignty over themselves granted to them by God not state government. Anything that occures within the confines of the borders of my corporal being are a business of my own not of the state government. Thank God for being merciful and granting free will. This is the basis of law. Sovereignty.
I seldom visit this page. But when I do, I always go away with a smile. I smile because it is so amusing to read peopole’s posts as they nit pic each other apart over a couple of sentences here or there. Sometimes… even a word or two. I believe in God. I believe in the freedom of religious practice. I beleive in the seperation of church and state. Most importantly, I believe that God is smart enough to know that we are to stupid to agree on anything.
If “Judeo-Christian ” isn’t a reference Jews who converted to Christianity then correct me. This is a specific sect, point of view, or religion and is prohibited by both the US and the Maine Constitutions. They should not be at our State House.
Muslims were in the United States nearly 1,000 years
before Columbus. see link for full story
http://www.fountainmagazine.com/article.php?ARTICLEID=823
Islam and Muslims in America before Columbus
Salih YUCEL
Historical facts concerning many established information on diverse
fields continue to be unraveled to the astonishment of us all. One of
these facts, previously little-known by many, is that Muslims had
actually set foot on American soil centuries before Columbus’
illustrious expedition. We hope as you read ahead in this essay that
some information and documents, excerpts from various sources, and the
results of archeological excavations will demonstrate the truth of the
aforementioned proposition.
Did the Companions of the Prophet go to America?
Research conducted in the West during the twentieth century has proven
the existence of Muslims on the American mainland approximately seven
centuries before Christopher Columbus. Similarly, archeological
excavations, linguistic, and philological analyses of languages and
settlement names in the region, the fact that coins, household tools and
other utensils were discovered there that were similar to those of the
Abbasids in the eighth and ninth centuries are all justifications of the
theory that Muslims, beginning from 650 CE, made their way to the
continent for settlement, during which time they erected mosques and
schools, leaving a prolonged impact on the natives, i.e. American
Indians.
The Islamic sources carry no information as regards Muslim settlement in
America, although research undertaken by Professor Barry Fell of
Harvard University confirms that Muslims reached the continent at the
time of Uthman, the third Caliph, concomitantly indicating the
significant possibility that some of the Companions could have arrived
there as well.
Many Western researchers acknowledge the famous map of Piri Reis as
proof of Muslim presence in America long before the endeavors of
Columbus, as it minutely comprises the map of America, as well as
extremely accurate measurements of the distance between America and
Africa.
According to Salvatore Michael Trento, former director of the Center for
Archeological Research in Middletown, New York, before embarking on his
first voyage to America, Columbus had read the book of Roger Bacon of
Oxford University, which comprised information, compiled from a variety
of Arabic resources, about geographical regions on the other side of the
Atlantic; hence Columbus’ previous knowledge of the islands in the
Atlantic Ocean and other places.1
“Muslims were in the United States nearly 1,000 years
before Columbus. see link for full story”
Your math is sloppy.
1492 – 650 = 842 years (+ 0r – only 16.8%)
… and on top of that 650 CE is only 18 years after the death of Muhammad.
Separation of Church and State!!!!! That is all…..
“The main goal of prayer caucuses at the U.S. Capitol inWashington and six state legislatures, now including Maine’s, is “to preserve the Judeo-Christian heritage of our nation and protect the right of Americans to publicly pray and trust in God,”
The Heritage of our Nation is Native American…
Any help Landslide LePage and the legislators get they sorely need.
This is a ridiculous waste taxpayer time and money. I’m not paying State legislators to drive down to Augusta and play these kinds of foolish games. If you want to pray, do it in your car or your hotel room at the end of the work day. In the meantime, get back to solving this State’s Mainecare problem and find us some jobs.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the one and only true god. May his noodly appendages touch us all. RAmen.
Only Pastafari “Believers should have all the say so in influencing government and that’s the intent of our founding fathers that we need to be free to influence our legislators, our leaders and fearing god and leading this country in a godly manner,” said Representative Dale Crafts.
There is only one way that the question of whether God should, or should not, be acknowledged in the public square can be finally resolved. Produce He, She, or It , physically, in said square. As that is quite impossible, the more tolerant among those who find religion suspect might accept an objectively verifiable miracle of the biblical variety. Failure to offer either of those proofs should end the discussion about the influence of illusory, supernatural beings in the rational, REAL world.
I see the moonbats have misdirected our attention away from a collapsed, war driven economy
in a world that has been aptly described as pass the point of no return with regards to climate change and global warming.
Amazing group photo I would never have recognized them without their white sheets.
Could of sworn it was the United Klan out of Wilton.
Pssst sparky or Guvnah as he likes to be called. What is it with this Judaeo Christian
spin?
Sorry to burst your bubble but the Muslims were in the United States nearly 1,000 years
before Columbus. see link for full story
http://www.fountainmagazine.com/article.php?ARTICLEID=823
Islam and Muslims in America before Columbus
Salih YUCEL
Historical facts concerning many established information on diverse
fields continue to be unraveled to the astonishment of us all. One of
these facts, previously little-known by many, is that Muslims had
actually set foot on American soil centuries before Columbus’
illustrious expedition. We hope as you read ahead in this essay that
some information and documents, excerpts from various sources, and the
results of archeological excavations will demonstrate the truth of the
aforementioned proposition.
Did the Companions of the Prophet go to America?
Research conducted in the West during the twentieth century has proven
the existence of Muslims on the American mainland approximately seven
centuries before Christopher Columbus. Similarly, archeological
excavations, linguistic, and philological analyses of languages and
settlement names in the region, the fact that coins, household tools and
other utensils were discovered there that were similar to those of the
Abbasids in the eighth and ninth centuries are all justifications of the
theory that Muslims, beginning from 650 CE, made their way to the
continent for settlement, during which time they erected mosques and
schools, leaving a prolonged impact on the natives, i.e. American
Indians.
The Islamic sources carry no information as regards Muslim settlement in
America, although research undertaken by Professor Barry Fell of
Harvard University confirms that Muslims reached the continent at the
time of Uthman, the third Caliph, concomitantly indicating the
significant possibility that some of the Companions could have arrived
there as well.
Many Western researchers acknowledge the famous map of Piri Reis as
proof of Muslim presence in America long before the endeavors of
Columbus, as it minutely comprises the map of America, as well as
extremely accurate measurements of the distance between America and
Africa.
According to Salvatore Michael Trento, former director of the Center for
Archeological Research in Middletown, New York, before embarking on his
first voyage to America, Columbus had read the book of Roger Bacon of
Oxford University, which comprised information, compiled from a variety
of Arabic resources, about geographical regions on the other side of the
Atlantic; hence Columbus’ previous knowledge of the islands in the
Atlantic Ocean and other places.1
Amusing the BDN left this out…
“Believers should have all the say so in influencing government and that’s the intent of our founding fathers that we need to be free to influence our legislators, our leaders and fearing god and leading this country in a godly manner,” said Representative Dale Crafts.
So for us that are atheist we should be told to just go away because we have no rights and people wonder why I speak out as much as I do.
“We, the undersigned, who believe in prayer and the Judeo-Christian principles that remind us that our rights come from almighty God, are united in this proclamation,”
No, the Crown’s Rights were what are purported to come from almighty God.
In America, a secular Nation by the design of the Founding Fathers,
our rights came for WE THE PEOPLE , at least after we got some by having a Revolution
( sedition ) against those claiming that their rights came from their God.
“The Divine Right of Kings”
For Kings and the Churches that they controlled, or vice-versa …
“The main way of instilling obedience, however, was propaganda. Through teaching, preaching and writing, the message was sent that sedition was morally wrong, un-Christian, and would result in divine retribution. Even those who escaped punishment in this life would burn in hell fire.”
http://faculty.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/367/367-04.htm
That much is not changed.
Le Page is a Tory.
God bless the Queen.
There are more than 2 dozen legislators who need to go. If they want to practice religion in their private lives fine. But keep it out of our government. Those of us who are non believers don’t need it shoved down our throats.
Agree. Pompous bunch of self serving money grabbers. Have they actually read the Bible. Keep it personal and show it through good works. The road to heaven may not be connected to self serving spectacles and wasting our time. I want to go to church with a angry white middle age men who judge and critique the citizens of Maine.
What ever happened to the separation of Church and State. I don’t want my tax dollars paying for politicians to pray. Hell No !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here,here.
Tim Tebow has some spare time on his hands…..maybe a new House Speaker? Or perhaps a new Spokesperson?
How many jobs were created? Oh, none? What a shock, just more useless crap.
Pray at home in private, or in the church of your choice. Praying it public makes your beliefs suspect.
Nutter knows prayers work, he got away with MaineCare fraud.
There must be money to be made here..leave no stone unturned when trying to make money..Lets pray now ……..
“A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side.”
― Aristotle
Just a bunch of immoral thieves and pigs looking for redemption. Gonna take more than this. Look at Nutting praying for forgiveness for stealing millions from the poor they better hope there is no GOD.
It will probably take take more than a few camp meetings led by the penguin in his Elmer Gantry persona to effect sane change in Maine.
Here you go, middle aged white men praying for what and to what Gods ? These Pius sinners must smell money, lots of money. Since the beginning of time Religion has always been the best money maker aside from Prostitution.
….
What a joke!
CYNTHIA DILL, a far-far-left Democrat from Cape Elizabeth, who says her “favorite” member of Congress is Chellie Pingree and just last week called MoveOn.Org a fantastic organization… tries to pretzel-twist herself into some kind of religious conservative to gain a few votes in Northern Maine???
It WON’T work, Pickle-head!
As an alter boy when the Mass was celebrated in Latin, I did my best to memorize the words. In the Introit of the Mass, at the beginning, I remember the words: “Judica me, Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta: ab homine iniquo et doloso erue me.” Ps. 42. “Judge me, O God, and distinguish my cause against an ungodly nation: deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man.” I think this says it all.
http://www.pressherald.com/news/LePage-tells-NAACP-to-kiss-my-butt.html
It’s good to have confirmation that when LePage said he wouldn’t be “held hostage by special interests” he only meant that he wouldn’t be held hostage by special interests that don’t agree with his views or don’t make up a significant voting block.
Paul LePage will not be held hostage by special interest groups that won’t return the favor by furthering his belligerent political career.
As an alter boy when the Mass was celebrated in Latin, I did my best to memorize the words. In the Introit of the Mass, at the beginning, I remember the words: “Judica me et discerne caussam meam de gente non sancta: ab homine iniquo et doloso erue me.” Ps. 42. “Judge me, O God, and distinguish my cause from that of an ungodly nation: deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man.”
Here is a prayer that does not violate the Constitution:
Dear Spiritual Being or Beings, which may or not exist, if you do exist we thank you for all the good stuff and ask you to keep it coming and ask you to please spare us from bad stuff. If you don’t exist, then we ask the taxpayers to forgive us for our stupidity.
Amen.
Were they collecting state salaries while they were doing this, in the State House no less?
If prayer is the answer to Maine’s problems, then why do they pay legislators? They could just cut out the middlemen and appeal to god.
“Wahhh, they’re praying! They’re actually praying! Oh my… God…? Stop them!”
Big deal, get over it. Doesn’t matter what their faith is, let them pray. Half of them are probably not even Christian, but try and act like one for votes. We have way more problems than to worry about a few people exercising their right to freedom of religion. If prisoners can request a prayer mat to pray on while facing Mecca, then these guys aren’t doing anyhthing wrong either. Please stop being huge cry babies.