President Obama spent much of his State of the Union address on the flood of manufacturing jobs from the United States to China and other foreign countries. He proposed some sensible measures to “bring jobs home.”

What he didn’t tell about was his encounter last February with former Apple leader, Steve Jobs, that shed fresh light on the outsourcing problem. It was at an industry dinner in California. As reported by the New York Times, the president asked Mr. Jobs what it would take to make Apple’ iPhones in the U.S. Almost all of the 70 million iPhones that Apple sold last year were manufactured overseas.

The Times quoted a dinner guest on the exchange between the two men. The president asked, why can’t that work come home? Mr. Jobs replied: “Those jobs aren’t coming back.”

His point was that the main reason for outsourcing was not that foreign labor was cheaper but that foreign workers and foreign companies could produce goods faster and better than could American companies. Apple executives told the Times that it had needed 8,700 industrial engineers to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. Their analysts had forecast that it would take nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States.

The Times reported that in 2007, when the iPhone was about to go on sale, Mr. Jobs showed his executives the scratches on the plastic screen of a prototype he had been carrying in his pocket. He told them: “I won’t sell a product that gets scratched. I want a glass screen, and I want it perfect in six weeks.”

One of the executives promptly flew to Shenzhen, China, where a company had already constructed a new wing in hopes it could get an Apple contract. As the Times told it, a foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers in the company’s dormitories. “Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.”

The more than two-page Times takeout barely mentioned the condition of Chinese workers and almost made outsourcing seem benevolent. Four days later, the newspaper published a similarly long article showing the dark downside of Apple’s outsourcing. It told of laborers standing so long at workstations that their legs swelled so they could barely walk. It reported at great length the death of a worker in an explosion at an Apple factory in China.

President Obama said American companies should not be rewarded for outsourcing and that this country needs better technological education to supply workers for manufacturing jobs. He was right in proposing tax-cutting incentives for American firms that hired American workers. And his proposal is to have one program, one website and one place to go for information and help in getting a job. As he put it, “It is time to turn our unemployment system into a reemployment system that puts people to work.”

Maine’s L.L. Bean Co. describes itself as one of the last American holdouts to turn to offshore production of apparel and footwear. Carolyn Beem, public affairs manager, said that Bean’s decisions came when American manufacturers were leaving. “We were increasingly finding disadvantages in terms of price and choice of producers, as our competitors moved offshore.” She said that Bean now employs more than 400 people making Bean’s boots and other products in Brunswick and Lewiston, and “we have never found an issue with the quality of U.S. workers.”

She did say that 135 recently recruited factory workers for the company’s Brunswick facility required extensive training to bring them up to speed in shoemaking. She said Bean’s production in this country remains competitive because of the quality of the work force and the efficiency of the work process.

Your next Apple purchase probably will be made overseas, but how satisfying it would be to see “Made in USA” once again inside the collar of your next L.L. Bean shirt?

Join the Conversation

99 Comments

  1. Sorry, to speak ill of the dead.. but bullshit, Mr. Jobs… people in the US don’t live in dormitories nor should they have to work 12 hour shifts so that stockholders and CEOs can live the good life.

    1. The Chinese look at work a lot differently than we do. They willingly sacrifice a lot of things you take for granted in order to better themselves. Take a look at the young women that work in the local restaurants. Many of them cycle through from Chinatown in NYC to here earn $10-12k savings living on very little in the meantime. They then return to their husbands and family and share the proceeds with their extended families. (grandma and grandpa included) I don’t know any American that would do that.

      I am not suggesting you or any American do the same.

      1. Apple would have been a very profitable company if it had kept it’s manufacturing in the US but greed made Steve Jobs move his production off-shore not issues with American production techniques.

        1. How do you know Apple would have stayed profitable? Isn’t that decision best left to the people who really know?

      2. You have no idea what you are talking about. And your speculation is absurd.

        You realize the number of suicides by iPad factory workers in china??? Come on
        They have no choice! It isn’t preferential!!!

      3. Actually I do know people who work and sacrifice themselves Cheesecake.  Particularly those whose family has suffered from the economic malaise brought on by the unregulated free market business culture in todays world.  As an example, I know grandparents who raise their grandkids while mom and dad are away working, perhaps driving truck 50 out of 52 weeks a year.  Wages go back to support the family including the grandparents while the parents live a meager existence on the road.  Then there are the countless families who take in ill or elderly relatives and provide support at their own expense because people like LePage steal the social services these elders worked all their life to earn.  I could go on and on.  I understand what you are trying to say Cheesecake but with all due respect I don’t believe you have thought this one through.

      4. They are starting to look at work a bit differently. In China they are organizing to change the abusive working conditions and pay. I cheer them on and know they will succeed. Their is some indication their government is supporting these efforts. That is good news too.

    2. I agree! 100% . Im here in Argentina half the year.  The other half I am in Maine where I grew up. Anything here in Argentina that you buy that was not made or produced here is taxed through the roof. Get a flyer from a company like Walmart here and every product will have a country of origin listing.

      Im not for closed borders when it comes to trade but I think some tariffs are justified.

  2. One solution would be to end the tax write off for advertising on goods made outside this country. Companies like Nike don’t manufacture one item in their extensive line of sporting goods. Let them advertise in S.E. Asia and sell their goods there. I wonder how many Asians are willing to pay over $100 for a pair of sneakers.

      1. I do find it ironic that German, Japanese, Korean car manufacturers can build plants here in this country and hire Americans to assemble and make parts for their lines of products. Yet other so called American icon industries have abandoned the country of their founding. Not only the auto industry. Bosch, has plants here also making high end appliances.

        1. Different employee cost structure is the culprit here I’ll bet. That along with union work rules that affect efficiency.

          1. The textile industry that abandoned New England moved to the south to avoid unions. They never had to deal with the unions down south yet they abandoned their employees down there and jumped to Asia. Of course you can blame unions for forcing laws on the books that are designed to protect workers well being, wether union or non.

          2. But you said that all these automakers and foreigners are doing fine. What is the reason the big US automakers find it a tough go? Do these foreigners not build vehicles to standards? D they not also have to follow labor laws. What is the difference?

          3. The difference is that the US  auto manufacturers have an extenive number of people who retired. Their retirement benefits were negotiated at a time when most men died withing 5 years of retirement. Due to the marvels of modern medicine they are living way beyond their projected life spans.
            I know you want to lay at the unions feet. But in actuality there is less than $10 per hour in total benefits and salary seperating them.

          4. “less than $10 per hour”? $10 per hour is a lot. That’s the difference between $8 an hour or $18 an hour, a 225% discrepancy of wealth per hour. That doesn’t make you mad? All those well-to-do union people, making so much more money than most people?

          5. That $10 is going to pay the retirement of those who fortunately or unfortunately (depending on how you feel) lived beyond what both sides thought they would. Those kind of contracts are dead. Unless you were mandated by Congress to fund retirement benefits for people that haven’t even been hired yet, US Post Office employees.;)

          6. Not so much the employee cost structure as the cost to move the finished good, in other words, freight, relative to the overall value of the item itself.  If an item is light and portable the freight cost goes down.  My company makes something that is extremely heavy and we’re constantly on the look out for facilities that will allow us to manufacture close to our market.

    1. We don’t need to resort to protectionism, a deadly game to be sure.  We can accomplish much by increasing pressure through existing trade agreements.  Tariffs are a tax on our people.  They just don’t do what you want them to.  They result in poor outcomes for everyone. This is a historically proven fact even if it is counter-intuitive.

      1. I think his point is the advertising expense. Sort of like on American made pharma in other countries for instance.

      2. Germany has protective taxes (tariffs) on items manufactured outside their borders and they are doing quite well, much better then we are as a matter of fact. China, Japan and South Korea also have them and they are doing quite well.

        As a matter of fact countries that protect their industries are doing much better than we are and will continue to do better then we do.

        1. Germany, After many problems with the last 2 dishwashers we had, GE and Kitchen Aid we brought a Bosch, Love It.

      3. It’s not a tariff. Being able to write off advertising as a business expense should be resererved for those who manufacture in this country. Comanies like Nike are supposedly US companies, yet they don’t make one single item in their extensive line of products in the US. New Balance is being foced to move a lot of manufactureing overseas, just to stay in business.

  3. It’s all about cost and our desire for cheap goods.  Unless we’re willing to pay higher prices for American made products nothing will change. 

    So, honest question: who’s willing to pay 2 or 3 times the cost of goods we buy at Walmart, Home Depot or even LL? 

    Probably very few, so we need to recognize that commodity, high volume manufacturing is gone and we need to find new opportunities.  This includes niche manufacturing and food products.

    1. It does not cost 2 or 3 times more to buy American. People spreading disinformation like you are part of the problem. allusaclothing.com for example. Union made right here in the U.S. and their prices are competitive with L.L. Bean who makes a lot of their crap in a communist country. And please do not say “we” buy at WalMart. I would not be caught dead in that dump. They are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Buy American, pay your fair share in taxes, and stay to hell out of ChinaMart while there is still one American left with a decent job.

      1. I don’t mean to offend and please don’t take this personally, but you’re wrong and don’t jump to conclusions. 

        A good example is a 16′ extension I bought at Home Depot.  It cost $75.00!  I expected and would have paid $200 or so, but all they had were ladders made in China.  That is not China’s fault. 

        This product and many others are made in China and other countrie simply for the cheap labor – about $2.00 a day.  That’s why goods are so cheap and all of us want cheap goods.  The solution is not so much only buy American, but buy quality goods and American made when possible.  That will mean buying less and that could be a good thing.

        1. You are right, it is not China’s fault. It is Werner Ladder’s fault for moving their manufacturing there in the first place like the treasonous dirt bags that they are. I would build one out of Maine made 2×4’s before I would put a thin dime in the pockets of traitors. I think that Obama touched on some good points in his state of the union address. But, the one most important point he avoided like the plague. Asking Americans to buy American. He is just like every other politician, he just wants to seem like he is on the job while taking care of his real employers, the top 1% and big corporate America. The fact remains that none of these greedy clods would get away with this without a lot of help from the American consumer and our total lack of patriotism at the cash register. If every American refused to buy anything that wasn’t made here, it would only take about a week before we would see factories reopening right here and Americans going back to work. I wouldn’t hold my breath though. Most people are far more concerned with price than they are their own future. Big corporate America knows this and will continue to turn our own greed against us for fun and profit. 

          1. Worst part is, China has been investing in “Assembly Ships.” These ships are old worn out cruise liners or freighters. They retrofit them with a dorm for the workers and an assembly plant. There is one that goes into N. Carolina, collects wood (raw materials) then goes off shore just far enough to be in International Waters and fires up the assembly line and makes furniture. Then they come back into port, off load the finished product and load back up with raw material. So not only are they paying cheap wages, they have figured out a way to drastically reduce shipping costs.

          2. Talk about an unfair trade practice. Everyone should run out to ChinaMart and buy some of this fine furniture. Don’t worry about how or where it is made, just celebrate the cheap price. The American consumer is the one driving this type of insanity. It would not be possible without our help, period. Buy American, pay your fair share in taxes, and stay the hell out of ChinaMart while there is still one American left with a decent job.

            ——————————

        2. Exactly. Cheapism rules. We are part of the problem. Only when we become the solution will things change.

  4. The easiest solution of all? Buy American. If it doesn’t say “made in the U.S.A.” don’t buy it. I spent less than $100 last year on products that were made out of this country. And I have not failed to exist or suffered any hardships. In fact, I sleep a lot better at night knowing that I am not part of the problem. Here is all you need to know about what is wrong with our economy. We invented the television and you can not buy one made here. Enough said.

    1. Hate to tell you – they were producing televisions in the UK first – 1928; the first operational television was built by  a Scot – John Logie Baird (1925).

  5. So the Washington DC brain trust figured out that rewarding companies(tax breaks etc) and individuals(bonus dough) by increasing unemployment might be detrimental to the economy. The Occupiers and liberals are so far out of touch with the business world, that they(the business) can continue to do the things that are wrecking the economy meanwhile we are blaming the bank bailouts, auto bail outs, Wall Street. But in manufacturing, it is business as usual. Wow. This Barack Obama may actually be on something, eh I mean, onto something here…

  6. Why all the outsourcing? Because corporations can pay Larry $20 an hour or Kwan Chi $2 an hour to produce the same exact product. Corporations are not patriotism motivated nor have they ever been. They are profit motivated. Period. Now let’s stop beating this dead horse. Next question.

    However, if you want a real discussion…ask why your government has been bending over backwards for the last 100 years assisting corporations in outsourcing. It’s one thing if a corporation wants to move its factories to China…it’s quite another for “your” (haha) government to pass legislation enabling them (such as NAFTA), or providing them tax breaks to pay for the very same outsourcing, not to mention passing tax laws allowing corporations to hide taxable income from the IRS.

    And who runs “your” government?

      1. Fine, a company can move it’s manufacturing to where ever they want but why should the US Government reward them (give tax credits) for moving jobs and tax base out of the country?

        1. Hell you can’t even move a company from one state to the other without government interference anymore.

          1. Boeing has military contracts, would you be OK with our military aircraft being built in another country?

            Naming a company is not citing a source.

          2. I’ll help

            “Since the 1930’s the guiding principle of federal labor law has been to create a fair and level playing field for collective bargaining. It is not intended, however, to dictate the results of that bargaining or to compel specific business decisions like when and where to open manufacturing facilities. Thus, businesses are normally free to make decisions about where to locate their plants.

            On the other hand, the Nation Labor Relations Act does prohibit employers from making specific threats or promises designed to coerce workers from forming unions or engaging in other protected activities. For example, if an employer tells its workers before a unionization vote that it will shut down the plant and move to Mexico rather than allow a union that would clearly violate the Act.”

            http://www.vtzlawblog.com/2011/04/articles/recent-court-decisions/nlrb-accuses-boeing-of-illegally-moving-production-facility-to-south-carolina/

            But your stance on Unions is well known so I would guess you disagree with this law.

          3. Boeing wanted to move part of its commercial plane production business to South Carolina where the help would be non-union. The Federal Government got in the way of that move by blocking it.

      2. The free market needs to be regulated.  It needs to be forced into being equitable with our competitors.  The money counter’s who send these jobs overseas forget one of the most basic tenants of a working economy.  Your customers need to be able to buy your products!  If you put everyone out of work eventually these people cannot afford to buy even the cheap imported crap you want to sell them.  A working economy is a symbiotic relationship.  Industry keeps people employed and these same people buy the products industry makes.  Anything less is short sighted and greedy with no long term future.

      1. I think you will find this goes back to Nixon…visited his library in CA and was shocked! I say sell all that crap from all the former presidents and give it back to us.

    1. But free trade allows you to buy your products for much less money than if they were all made here.  There’s always a trade-off.

      1. I would agree it is cheapism that has created the problem. We turn our backs on each other when we play the consumer game that way. It is about greed all the way around.

  7. I am a small (very small) businessman, and have been one for many years.

    That being said however, I believe that corporations, who have recently been given the same free speech considerations as individual people, by our benevolent SCOTUS, are inherently bad to a degree, as they, unlike many people, have no heart and no soul. Corporations march only to one master, the almight dollar which is the bottom, and only line that matters.

    I am from another age, compared to most around today, as I believe that any business has a moral duty to treat it’s customers with respect. With small businesses like mine, this is not only common sense but good business. In fact I can rember a time when may large companies valued what their customers thought and wanted. Not any more though. Today “deceiving the  customer” in order to get more of his money has become common place.

    I know one thing for sure. There is a worldwide quest on to satisfy worldwide markets with goods. The goods that will do the best are those that are made the most efficiently. Those that do the best will be those made in the most efficient manner considering the desired quality.

    Not many of those will be made in the United States again. It is too late to keep the horse in the barn after the doors have been left open.

    The economy is “consumer driven” and the truth is that many Americans want low cost consumer goods, and those are not made here anymore.

    Furthermore many Americans are “virtually untrainable” in various techincal skills, as has been recently pointed out right here in Maine.

    We have lost our way and it is a shame.

    1. I take exception to your statement “Furthermore many Americans are “virtually untrainable” in various techincal skills, as has been recently pointed out right here in Maine.”

      It is up to industry to tell training facilities, schools, etc. what they want in new employees.

      Governor LePage made the outlandish, IMO, statement that we have over 20,000 high tech jobs available in Maine. So far I have yet to see that backed up with a listing of Who,
      Where, and What they pay. 

    2. I do agree with you on this one. Cheapism has and will continue to define our economy. Consumers who want cheaper will support abusive worker practices. We are a greedy bunch, aren’t we?

  8. This is why I support Santorum
    How can the unions be supporting Obama when he has done no better to keep jobs in the US than Bush.

    The recent Canadian oil pipeline project is just but one example of Obama folding to green pressure and sticking it to the massive number of union jobs that it would have created..!

    1. The Jobs have not been here for 30 years!  Obama did not create this problem.  Should we put in a pipe line at the expense of the environment!  NO  Obama make the correct decission on the one.

  9. Ok blame Obama for Out Sourcing.  This happened because of Ronald Regan and his trickle down ecconomics.  We need to bring back all of the Regulations put into place by Rosevelt.  All of Them or continue loosing jobs.  Soon the middle class will be the new poor.  “WE NEED GOOD JOBS AGAIN”  Jobs that allow a man to support his own 12 kids and his wife and also have solid middle class life.  We need Jobs like our fathers had.

      1. Congress has more power than the president, and there is plenty of blame for both Republicans and Democrats.  Don’t look now but your kayak sprung a leak.

  10. Obama was making a speech. Period. It is idiotic and insulting to the public because we all know jobs are shipped overseas so the scumbags can make more money. Period. Shame on you Barry. Though it’s what you do best—- get em all hopeful and then…..nothing. You are truly the worst.

    How about the suicide rates of Chinese workers in Ipad factories??? That is kinda relevant here!
    Jumping off the tops of buildings cause they can’t take it anymore!

    Manufacturing is done in this country because of the rampant greed and malpractice of the mega corproations.

    Thanks America!!

    1. I do agree. Our fellow American have and continue to create the destruction of the American economy and support the worker abuses in other countries. It is greed at all levels that drives our economic engine in this day and age. Pride has been replaced by Greed. Both deadly sins, but somehow the former now seems more desirable.

  11. Rather than giving US companies tax breaks for manufacturing in America we should be raising taxes/import duties on all imported products made offshore.  Yes, this goes against current trade agreements (as does subsidizing by giving tax breaks!)  however these trade agreements are not fair.  In order for a free market system to work we must all be on an equal playing field.  The US and other western countries ultimately carry a much higher cost burden than their competitors in Asia etc.  Until the countries who manufacture our goods give their workers a living wage, healthcare, retirement, etc, we should be putting high import duties on Chinese  or Indian or whosever products coming into America so they are at least competitively priced with American made products.  Better yet, tax them so they are more expensive than American made products.

    You know, the irony here is that we give them our jobs and then have to bear the cost of policing the world to make it safe for trade.  We do this while foisting the financial burden on Americans and then putting them out of work.  Then, perhaps even worse, we borrow our own money back to cover the expense of policing the world.  Good grief!

  12. There is a pretty simple solution: companies who outsource should pay a tax on any labor purchased overseas. This tax can than be used to fund unemployment compensation for workers laid off as a consequence of outsourcing.

      1. No it wouldn’t, not if the compensation was per worker. They’d essentially be paying twice the labor costs, and would be forced to move back here to hire workers.

  13. This comes from a very generous “anti-union” liberal Obama supporter businessman-
    The Times quoted a dinner guest on the exchange between the two men. The president asked, why can’t that work come home? Mr. Jobs replied: “Those jobs aren’t coming back.”

    ABO 2012
    Anyone But Obama

  14. Obama’s intention was a broadside at Romney…Romney is quite proud about his ability to  profit financially by shipping jobs out of the country. I’d vote for a piece of animal manure before I’d vote for Mitt.

  15. Obama is right.  We do not want those jobs in America, we prefer unemployment and welfare rather than to provide jobs.  Having a job is hard work and the last thing we want here in America is to actually have to work for our money.  Good job Mr. Obama, let the Chinese make the IPhones and thank you also for saying “NO” to Canada on their proposed pipeline into Texas.  We don’t want those jobs either.  If we re-elect this ignoramus for another 4 years, we are doomed.

    1. Cheapism again. Dirty, dirty oil is not the solution. That is going backwards. But I have no faith in this president. He will bow eventually to pressure from wall street. He is surrounded by those who created this economic debacle.

  16. Economic policy for the last 30 years has worked against the American worker. It isn’t that Americans can’t demonstrate high worker productivity, that has gone up over 62% in the last 30 years, while worker wages have only increased a small amount.

    From “The Sad Story About Wages”  Economic Policy Institute: 2010.

    “The ability of the economy to produce more goods and services has not translated into greater compensation for either group of workers. Why has pay fared so poorly overall? Why did the richest 1% of Americans receive 56% of all the income growth between 1989 and 2007, before the recession
    began (compared with 16% going to the bottom 90% of households)? Why are corporate profits 22% above their pre-recession level while total corporate sector employees’ compensation (reflecting lower employment and meager pay increases) is 3% below pre-recession levels? The answers lie in an economy that is designed to work for the well off and not to produce good jobs and improved living standards. ”

    In spite of higher worker productivity, increased corporate profits, manufacturers moved overseas. It isn’t just because wages are lower. The same items could be made here, at a profit, just not at the biggest margin. Instead of the American worker receiving the benefits of their labor, it went into the pockets of the CEOs and others at the top. It is time to stop rewarding the 1% for outsourcing jobs to other companies.

    The whole discussion about jobs, economy, is using rhetoric created by the 1%, and the language is inadequate to describe what is really happening.  Most of the comments on this page, from both sides, use the “spin” created by the 1%. It’s time to get beyond that.

    Lets get back to the idea of an honest days wages, for an honest days work, stop rewarding companies for outsourcing jobs, and start discussing ways to revitalize the middle class.

    Unfettered, unregulated “free” market capitalism will ultimately lead to a society w/ a small elite and a lot of poverty. We have 30 years of data to show that we are well on our way to that outcome.

    1. OCCUPY!  We are the 99% and can make a difference. Well, anyone earning less than $500,000 a year that is.

  17. If you take a look at Chinese history for the last 60+ years living in a dorm, working 12 + hour shifts, available 24/7 and its easy to see how they can think this is close to paradise.  This is a far better life than the 100 Flowers Program, Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution.  I wonder how many Chinese have read, or have the time to read, Charles Dickens. Are our economists and business people proposing we become more like the Chinese?  In the various 20th century dictatorships the role of the people was to serve the State. Are we becoming like them in that instead of serving the state we are serving the Economy?

  18. “One of the executives promptly flew to Shenzhen, China, where a company
    had already constructed a new wing in hopes it could get an Apple
    contract. As the Times told it, a foreman immediately roused 8,000
    workers in the company’s dormitories. “Each employee was given a biscuit
    and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour
    started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames.
    Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.” That says it all folks. But workers in China are organizing. You did see the Daily Show expose of Foxconn I hope and just do a search to learn more about worker abuse there. Every time you use your Iphone or Ipad remember what it took to put that in your hands.

  19. And, I am sorry to say this, but unions as they are constructed today are part of the problem. Citizens United put them square in the middle of the problem. They are not the solution when it comes to getting money out of politics. They are part of the problem. Organize workers union leaders and deal with the employers and stay out of politics. Focus on what it takes to make employers accountable to workers for a fair share of the corporate pie.

  20. Why all the outsourcing? Simple answer, cost and profit.
    I don’t think anyone in their right mind would be in business
    to lose money or not make as much as they could. Why would
    a business produce anything that costs them $100 to make $10
    when they can produce it for $10 and make $100? The picture
    up top is one reason why outsourcing happened.  Not too long ago
    people making 100K+ had gone to college and commanded a higher
    wage for what they did. Now everyone feels because they attend college
    they are entitled to that kind of wage when in reality it just isn’t so. I know
    plenty of people who made such money with no college education and worked
    hard and earned it. Today we are led to believe having that piece of paper
    will make you a rich person and you will have a nice corner office
    and you will be a high earner from day one. Yea, you can tax tax tax but
    that will not solve the issue. When the cost of doing business in a location
    is not good, you move your business.
    If someone gave you 10K and said invest this in the USA and you will make
    $1 after one year or invest it in India and you will make 15K off it on a year….
    let me guess where 100% of you would be putting that money.
    We can come up with all the reasons like “I am not going to work more
    than 8hr days”, I will not work for less than $20/hr., what, no benefits?
    I have to put into my own pension? How dare I have to pay for something!
    I am working too much OT. Work? Wait till my unemployment bennies run
    out first.
    And you wonder why?

  21. Lets fact it, its gonna come down to Obama vs Romney……
    *They both are anti 2nd Amendment
    *They both want forced governmental healthcare
    *The both are rich lying millionaires that have no concept of the American worker
    *They both support the Quimby National Park

    Either way we are all doomed

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