Whenever millionaire environmentalist Roxanne Quimby has said her proposed North Maine Woods national park wouldn’t grow any larger than 70,000 acres, Andy Young didn’t believe her.
That’s why the 48-year-old Lincolnville general contractor joined Preserve Maine Traditions, an anti-national park group formed last November. It filed U.S. Freedom of Information Act requests with the National Park Service and U.S. Department of the Interior in late January seeking all communication between the federal agencies and Quimby or other park supporters.
Young said he believes the 70,000-acre park is a mere seedling that would eventually grow into a 3.2 million acre park originally proposed by the group RESTORE: The North Woods about 20 years ago.
“There are many of Roxanne Quimby’s park supporters who say, ‘Who could ever be against a park?’ The reality is that this is a change in tactics over 20 years in search of a larger park,” Young said Tuesday. “She doesn’t want to say it out loud — a 3.2 million acre park — so in my mind she is talking about the 70,000-acre park.”
“It is the beginning. It is the seed. This is her attempt to gain a foothold,” Young added. “Just because she has changed the tactics doesn’t mean she has changed the agenda.”
So far, Preserve Maine Traditions’ freedom of information request has netted the group about 30 pages of documents given to the park service by Elliotsville Plantation Inc. in November which outline her proposal in broad terms.
Apart from saying that that the park “may encompass 75,000 acres” — not 70,000 — the proposal pretty closely approximates what Quimby has said all along. The proposal describes the land as adjacent to Baxter State Park and as consisting partly of a 13,000-acre lynx foraging habitat and 4,000 acres “critical for biodiversity conservation,” among other things.
When reached Tuesday night, Quimby, who owns about 59,000 acres, clarified that the national park would be no more than 75,000 acres east of Baxter State Park and west of the East Branch of the Penobscot River. Plus, her Elliotsville Plantation Inc. would set aside additional land for an array of recreational uses not likely to be allowed within the park, she said.
“If a national park is created, EPI will donate an additional 43,000 acres in multiple use areas on lands east of the East Branch Penobscot River and areas west of Brownville Junction near Sebec Lake. Permanent easements would provide for sustainable forestry and public access for hunting, fishing and permanent snowmobile and ATV rights-of-way,” she said in a brief statement.
Quimby’s 30-page proposal calls for a park operation budget of $2.5 million and about 25 park employees. It promises that Quimby would offset that cost with a $40 million endowment she plans to raise and donate, as well as park entrance and use fees.
“Current land ownership would allow auto access to the park’s edge via an EPl-owned right-of-way near Sherman and pedestrian access from the north through Baxter State Park and from the logging roads near Stacyville,” the proposal states. “Additional auto access routes to and within the park are under consideration. The outcome will depend on land ownership and further planning and consultation.”
According to a letter from Quimby dated Nov. 5, Quimby gave Interior Secretary Ken Salazar 406 letters and 3,325 petition signatures supporting a national park feasibility study that the National Park Service would conduct.
Although leaders and voters from East Millinocket and Millinocket have opposed a park, Quimby in her letter described how a “growing alliance of thousands of individuals demonstrates broad support from neighboring communities, including participation by 205 residents of Millinocket, 137 of Medway, and 49 of East Millinocket — the three communities in closest proximity to the proposed national park.”
Young scoffed at that and at National Park Service claims that their only correspondence with Quimby dates from November. The fact that Salazar and other officials visited the Katahdin region in August shows at least some contact predating that, he said.
Young’s group, which claims about 150 members, has its own website, preservemainetraditions.com, and is planning a forum at the Camden Public Library at 6:30 p.m. Tuesday, March 6. The public is invited.
Several speakers will discuss how the North Woods presently offer a great deal of access to recreationists and forest products industries while supporting Maine’s economy, he said.
Preserve Maine Traditions plans to keep fighting the park proposal, Young said.
“Unless we are there to counter some of that they will continue pressing and pressing,” he said. “Who is against a park? Everybody loves parks, don’t they? Without our story being out there, they would start slowly convincing people.”
We know it is a mere seedling to a bigger park. Glad to have some one else aboard fighting to keep this National Park out of Maine. From what she has said previously she wouldn’t minde a much bigger park and we know other groups want a bigger park.
Quimby has boasted many times that she wants millions of acres to be taken over by the National Park Service and that her playing her own land (and inholdings owned by others) is intended as a “seed” and a “down payment” for much more. Quimby has been on the Board of Directors of Restore and continues to support it.
A few months ago an interview with Quimby revealed:
“‘I still believe that a 3.2 million-acre park is a fabulous idea. I’d like to see a ten million-acre national park!’, Quimby said. ‘I love national parks and the bigger the better! But in terms of what I can accomplish as an individual I think that there are limitations. And because private property rights and my rights as a landowner figure so importantly into this discussion, I feel best about limiting the conversation to land that I own so that’s why I’m talking about 70,000 acres and not 3.2 million but theoretically the sky’s the limit!'”
Quimby wants to “limit the discussion” to prevent people from thinking about what else she plans to metastize from her “seed”.
Restore itself was an offshoot of the Wilderness Society which was a source of the Big Park agenda for Maine from Washington, DC. Restore was started by Wilderness Society officials Kellet and St. Pierre who have been after much more than 3 million acres. The Restore 3.2 million acres has itself been intended as a “seed” for more. Kellet told viro leaders in Massachusetts in 1990,
“I think it’s likely this [26 million acres] will all end up, most of this will end up
being public land, not by taking away, but that will probably be really the only alternative.”
The 26 million acres he was talking about was the Greenline Park target spanning 2/3 of Maine and parts of three other states.
This is why Restore board member Brock Evans said in his infamous “take it all” speech when he was an Audubon VP:
“I don’t agree that it shouldn’t all be in the public domain. In fact I think it all should be in the public domain… As Michael [Kellet] said, there are some very distinct similarities between the emerging, what I’ll call the Northern Forests Lands Campaign — which is happening in northern New England right now and if I have anything to say about it from my national perspective, it will be an even bigger campaign in the next few years and the ancient forest campaign we’re just going through right now in the Pacific northwest…. The differences obviously are that it’s private land, not public land, which means that if we’re gonna get it back, and I’ll use that term advisedly, it has to be purchased rather than just change the law on how it’s gonna be managed… It should be all of it….Be unreasonable. You can do it. Yesterday’s heresy is today’s common wisdom.”
she hates maine people,as far as she is concerned we are all stupid fat and lazy.this is her only motive for the park,she could care less about perserving anything.
Every time I turn around I hear local Mainers telling me about stupid, fat, and lazy welfare recipients, who also happen to be Mainers. You cannot have it both ways! Either Mainers are famously hard working and dedicated employees, or they are good-for-nothing, lazy, fat, and stupid! Of course Maine is filled with both kinds of people.
Mill Billy….you need to understand one thing, a large part of the population of Maine lives and eats from the fruits of government, and not by their own hard work. It amazes me that the same people have a problem with government any where else in their lives. Hypocracy at its worst!!!
100% agree. Did you know that the Millinocket town webpage has a section devoted to obtaining welfare. Fast track at that, 24 hours and you should be getting a voucher for all your daily needs!!! Self reliance in the north woods free of government intervention? They even have their precious mill online that the rest of Maine will be in part footing the bill for so they can have jobs and dignity.
It’s 2012. Look at the town web pages all over the USA. You’ll find the same thing. That’s what happens when environmental extremists lobby for shutting down industries.
Your paranoia and elaborate extremism are giving the Obama birth-certificate people a good run for the money.
Ine would have to be blind not to see what the end game is. If it was only about 59,000, 70,000, or 75,000 acres or whatever this months number is, if you were Quimby and wanted to give this land as a gift to forever preserve it, why not just endow it to Baxter State Park Authority? Most of it abuts the park foundry and the watershed from the Wassatiquoik Stream which passes through here property originates in BSP. I’m sure this thought isn’t even on her radar. It’s not the point. RESTORE has been trying to push this agenda for a long time, and finally they have a well healed financier in their corner that has government connections. This has nothing to do with a gift. It’s about a mindset, and the future disposition of how we use millions of acres of land. No paranoia or extremism here. This is the same mentality the leaders of the Soviet Union had. “If you don’t agree with our way of thinking, you must be mentally ill”. So off to the asylum you go. We in this country aren’t far off from this mentality now. If you don’t agree with a liberal, you are a “hater”.
Baxter doesn’t receive public funding and it has a budget that stems from their trsust fund endowment. I doubt they could afford to acquire and maintain the extra acreage.
That’s odd. To hear Republicans talk, it’s more like “if you don’t agree with the Tea Party, you’re Satan himself”.
Your libelous smear is non-responsive to what he wrote.
Really? You mean he DIDN’T write: [If you don’t agree with a liberal, you are a “hater”.]?
I could have sworn that was where I just cut and pasted that from.
When the rural people were forcibly displaced for Shenandoah National Park in the 1930s the progressives did put them in asylums.
Those were quotations from the leaders of your own agenda. It has nothing to do with “Obama’s birth certificate”. Your posts are non-responsive. You cannot defend your radical politics on behalf of your nature religion.
Damn right. Bring it on. 3.2, or bust.
Your radical political imposition agenda has been morally busted for over twenty years for good reason. Parroting Restore slogans to seize millions of acres of other people’s private property doesn’t help you.
Not radical. It’s just good sense.
Even better sense is to follow Percival Baxter’s advice to put the land in private hands and keep it away from the government. The finest examples of wilderness preservation in Maine were done by wealthy capitalists like the Rockefellers and many other forest owners who left their estates to local trusts managed as private non-profits.
Quimby is downright scary…almost a megalomaniac like an early Andrew Carnegie or a rail road baron.
I would like your comment 100 times over if I could! Percival very rightly did not trust the government to permanently protect the lands that he purchased for the people of Maine. People worry about instability with private landownership but I see the government and public opinion as being far more fickle.
Quimby is not anything like Andrew Carnegie or the developers of the railroads. They were productive people creating wealth. Quimby is a 60s counter culture radical and wilderness fanatic who opposes civilization. She is, however, the megalomaniac you describe in her power-seeking trying to forcibly impose an agenda on other people for whom she has nothing but contempt.
Don’t be too quick to praise the Rockefellers as private conservationists. They have routinely collaborated with the Federal government. Peggy Rockefeller’s Maine Coast Heritage Trust was started by the chief ranger of Acadia National Park for the purpose of the National Park Service eliminating private property. MCHT was one of the sources of the plan from Washington DC in the 1980s to have the National Park Service take over millions of acres of private property in Maine. MCHT collaborates with the US Fish & Wildlife Service to target private property for acquisition using eminent domain.
MCHT collaborated with NPS in trying to impose National Landmark on private property in downeast Maine over the objections of the property owners. After an intense fight that disrupted people’s lives for four years Sen. Mitchell put the Landmarks program under a national moratorium because of its routine violation of civil rights nationwide.
A Federally enforced takeover of millions of acres of private property is not “good sense”. Your radical politics are indefensible.
Some of the most wonderful weeks, months and experiences of my life have been visiting our National Parks and Monuments that we have in America. And I am an avid hunter and fisherman who has also enjoyed the many experiences I have had in the Maine woods on both public and private property. Why anyone would be opposed to another National Park in Maine is beyond my comprehension. If there were a single reason for me to oppose the creation of a National Park, it would be because it “could” create too much prosperity in rural areas.
Please come to the Camden event Bill, and in the meantime listen to Gene’s talk at UMM here -http://preservemainetraditions.com/gene-conlogue-maine-woods-coalition-speech-at-umm/ and you will learn why.
Yeah Gene is just fantastic, he cannot even manage his own job in Millinocket
Bill you would throw away the Great Ponds Act? We are not talking a little park here, this has been going on over 20 years.
“If there were a single reason for me to oppose the creation of a National Park, it would be because it “could” create too much prosperity in rural areas.”
Glad you’re thinking of us, Bill.
Your elitism is truly why we in northern Maine don’t want your park , your agenda, or your views on abolishing LURC.
I like the national parks and such as well. Ms. Quimby however, wants a national park that would prevent hunting and fishing in the northern Maine woods. How would that bring prosperity to that area? Hunting, fishing, and logging are the way of life in that area.
Mr. Young should put on his tin foil hat to protect him from “negative thought waves”. The people who are against Ms. Quimby’s incredible proposal NEVER provide FACTS to back up their beliefs. When they do provide “facts” they’re more dreams and created stories to back up their argument. Then they hide behind their belief that they’re standing up for the REAL Maine. They ignore the fact that Ms. Quimby OWNS the land that she’s proposing to donate, and can do with it what she wants.
You are correct Sir, she does own the land and can do what she wants with her land, until, she proposes to donate it to the Federal government, then it becomes our business. Did you read the article? Did you visit the website and see the cited sources, facts, and statistics? I enjoy National Parks just as much as the next person, but I also recognize why it’s not a good fit for the region.
“You are correct Sir, she does own the land and can do what she wants with her land”
You really should be considering the possible alternatives to a Park,
that might well arise from your nasty arrogant approach,
to your need to be telling others what you think THEY should do with their own land.
I’m just saying.
They little tyrants trying to impose Federal control have always had the “nasty arrogant approach”. Quimby has no right to buy government policy, playing her land to impose a change in the form of government in Maine using the National Park Service to eliminate private property, local self-government and industry.
Paranoid.
Your personal smears continue to be non-responsive.
This is what Quimby has said herself about her anti-private property, anti-industry, anti-European settlement agenda:
“To me, ownership and private property were the beginning of the end in this country. Once the Europeans came in, drawing lines and dividing things up, things started getting exploited and overconsumed. But a park takes away the whole issue of ownership. It’s off the table; we all own it and we all share it. It’s so democratic.”
That is what imposing Federal control through the National Park Service in the name of “national significance” does. National Park Service control means that local people and their rights don’t matter any more.
Who is calling who arrogant? Call the kettle black.
You are correct, quasimondo, when you say Quimby can do what she wants with her land. We do not argue that. We totally understand and have no problem with Quimby doing what she wants on her own land. BUT, donating it for a national park and providing a “seed” for RESTORE is another story. Quimby has publicly stated numerous times that having this land be the seed for RESTORE is her ultimate goal. We can and do have a say about that and as people see the truth about Quimby’s goal, our numbers are growing.We have links and FACTS to back up all that we say. Quimby has, for years, and on many occasions, stated that this land she wants to donate for a national park is to be the seed for RESTORE’s 3.2 million acres. IF you want to check the FACTS we provide, by all means, go to –
preservemainetraditions.com
So, yes, quasimondo, we do provide facts. Perhaps you should remove your blinders and read them.
NO PARK FOR ME!!!!!! BAN ROXANNE !!!!!! Hey, noparkforme back me up here bud , us fat, drunk, welfare drug addicts here in Maine already have us a park, it’s called the the NORTH MAINE WOODS!!!! I wish I had the money to buy that property, it would be forever free to the citizens of Maine, sleds, atv’s, 4×4’s,hunters, fishermen, hikers,ect. Ya there might some rude people that leave their trash but Mainer’s like you and I will pick it up and carry out with our own trash. I’ll be glad when this NP crap is finally squashed.
Put down the coffee brandy and go to bed.
Sorry buddy.
Somebody had to keep them trails flat for ya!
It is entertaining to hear people come up with the conspiracy stories…. If I were Quimby, I would probably start to think about selling that land to a foreigner if the people of Maine are going to put up such a stink. Wouldn’t it be funny if some European country put their own natural park in Maine? Sorry… I guess I just wanted to fan some more conspiracy theories. While they are fun to hear, they must get old for Ms. Quimby who is just trying to preserve a piece of Maine. I wonder who is funding the people against her?
We’ve done our research, how about you do a little of your own and find a national park that hasn’t grown in size since inception?
I’ll even save you the trouble -http://preservemainetraditions.com/maines-proposed-park-size-debacle-5/
Cute web site. How much did that cost?
So, parks change. I think Acadia got a lot of it’s property from bequeaths. Should they not be allowed to do that? Should Acadia NOT be a national park and simply just be owned by people from ‘away?’ I think you are silly. 7 billion people in the world, 9 billion soon, and heaven forbid they make a national park out of a bit of the woods of north woods of Maine. The fact that there is, in essence, a lobbying company against this says so much about people…..
The nps did not create Acadia, and Acadia has had it’s own share of eminent domain issues, it was not all from “willing sellers”. You can read about it on our cute little website here;http://preservemainetraditions.com/maine-and-eminent-domain/
And 3.2 million acres is not “a bit of woods.”
In fact most of that area is already accessible to you and all of us thanks to the North Maine Woods Inc. – you can snowshoe, hunt, birdwatch, and whatever else you heart desires…why would you give that all away? Why would you limit who can use it? Why would you subject yourself to nps rules and regulations when you don’t have to? Why would you subject yourself to the will of one person who is intent only on building her legacy? Why do you stand for her allowing the land she agrees to purchase to be liquidation harvested? That from a purported preservationist?? It’s a travesty.
Look at some of the groups around that little green acre, Nature Conservancy, ATC, conservation easements. Who are you guys trying to fool, oh that is right people in Southern Maine. And you seem to be doing a great job of it.
The millions of acres the Big Park pressure groups want to take over belongs to other people, people who don’t want to lose to Federal control their property and their right to self-government accountable to the local people.
This scheme originated from “people from away” — in Washington, DC. The political insiders want the land and they want to take it by political means at the expense of those in their way. This is not about “a bit of the woods” and world population has nothing to do with it.
The National Park Service threatens property owners with eminent domain to get their land and control it while they still own it. That is not “bequeaths”. Quimby has boasted that she is buying up land at Acadia as part of her “gift”. She is buying it from people who aren’t allowed to use it and can’t sell to anyone else because of the government eminent domain threat. That is not a “gift”.
Acadia was started by “people from away” — the wealthy “cottage” owners of the mansions who wanted to preserve the land around themselves. They used state eminent domain power and other arm-twisting tactics when people didn’t want to go along with them.
It didn’t occur to the land trust that did this to “give” anything to the Federal government until faced with a local revolt and the fear of losing their state charter. Acadia was not a “gift”; the Federal government was the means for maintaining control. The widely spread notion that Acadia was a “gift” is myth.
No they should not be allowed to do that.
Do you know that land being discussed is about the size of Isle au Haut,
and only 3% of Penobscot Country, alone ?
Seas of plastic, we need a big solar flare right up the bung hola…ahyup
LOL — that’s your response to facts??? Guess it’s really all you can say.
Not all, but it is telling…
Dems do not like facts., they just insult you, or yell louder then you so no one can hear them.
It is not a consiracy she wants a bigger park, just look at what she has said in the past. The groups associated with this. Preserve, yea right
If you don’t believe Bruce “just ask Dave”.
I do not have to ask anyone. This has been going on 20 years or more. The facts speak for themselves to what she has said, so I do not have to ask Dave for something that is all over the net.
What “conspiracy” do you think you’re talking about? Are you aware of the quarter of a century of history behind this scheme? Are you aware of the millions of dollars of out of state money that has been spent to promote this political takeover scheme hatched and openly and widely promoted from Washington DC beginning in the 1980s? Where have you been that you think this is all someone’s imagination?
Nice try, at it but there is too little Allen’s in your conspiracy to gain any traction.
Quimby’s land ownership does not give her a right to change the form of government in Maine and eliminate private property rights and industry through a Federal takeover for wilderness.
The facts of what a National Park Service takeover means have been known for over twenty years, which is why the viros’ radical political takeover plan from Washington DC has been rejected since it was promoted in the 1980s.
What kind of nut cases think that ”
Quimby’s land ownership does give her a right to change the form of government in Maine and eliminate private property rights …” ?
You do and so does Quimby. Everyone who claims she can bring in the National Park Service to eliminate private property rights because she “owns the land and can do what she wants with it” thinks that.
This is what Quimby told Yankee Magazine about her anti-private property ideological goals:
“To me, ownership and private property were the beginning of the end in this country. Once the Europeans came in, drawing lines and dividing things up, things started getting exploited and overconsumed. But a park takes away the whole issue of ownership. It’s off the table; we all own it and we all share it. It’s so democratic.”
70,000 or 3.2 Million acres?
Evolution of farce
Change of Tactics does not mean a change in Agenda
1. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001- ‘ The land she has bought so far generally will be left alone so it can recover from heavy logging, she said. In the future, campgrounds and visitor centers could be built on some parcels. She hopes ultimately to donate the land she buys to the federal government for inclusion in the proposed national park.
2. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001 ‘Quimby, 50, is a member of RESTORE’s board of directors. Like a modern-day Percival Baxter, she hopes to nudge the park from dream to reality by buying up the land herself.
3. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001 In fact, she said, ‘very few people derive a living from the woods. She says most people do as she did before she became a wealthy businesswoman: They cut some wood, farm some vegetables, make some crafts to sell at fairs’.
4. Americans for a Maine Woods National Park and Preserve Announced 2003- Formation of a new group of national leaders called “Americans for a Maine Woods National Park” has been announced by its Co-Chairs Will LaPage and Roxanne Quimby. To date, 110 distinguished Americans from many walks of life have joined this national advisory committee in order to promote the proposed 3.2 Million acre Maine Woods National Park and Preserve
5. Maine Enviormental News 11/24/2003. ‘Her goal is to buy as much forestland as possible, help it become truly wild and donate the land for a national park. The environmental organization RESTORE: The North Woods is working to establish a 3.2 million-acre national park and preserve around “forever wild” Baxter State Park. Quimby has been a public advocate of RESTORE’s effort’.
6. National Geographic News Feb. 2004- Americans for a Maine Woods National Park, an interest group that was founded by RESTORE: The North Woods, a conservation organization that’s spearheading a protection plan for an enormous swath of woodlands in the U.S. East. The proposed national park would encompass 3.2 million acres (1.3 million hectares), an area larger than Yellowstone and Yosemite combined.
7. Northern Sky News June 2004- She recently left the board of RESTORE, and is now active with a group called Americans for a Maine Woods National Park. The group is actively working to get more people outside northern Maine interested in the park proposal.
8. Northern Sky News June 2004-“We have attempted to take the question out of Maine, certainly out of northern Maine, where there is an enormous backlash but very few people,” says Quimby. “This is a national park, it should be on the national agenda. … So our strategy is to take it out of Piscataquis and Penobscot counties where it will simply bubble away and nothing will ever happen.”
9. Yankee magzine 2008 ‘At the time, Roxanne was on the board of RESTORE: “People up there hate RESTORE, so I put some distance between us at that point. I didn’t need that.”
* As of July 2011 Roxanne Quimby is still listed on the Restore website as calling for a 3.2 million acre park.
10. The Quimby Family Foundation lists RESTORE as one of the beneficiaries of its grants for 2010 and 2011
11. The Quimby Family Foundation lists the Forest Ecology Network as a grantee for 2005, 2006 and 2008. FEN is one of the organizations calling for a 3.2 Million acre Park.
12. Yankee magzine 2008 ‘There is nothing more real than real estate, and Roxanne has repeatedly said she would like to see the lands she has acquired become the seeds of a new national park. What she owns now would be a very credible beginning’
13. RESTORES WEBSITE JULY 2011 “American people love their national parks.”Ms. Quimby hopes Mr. Spalding and Restore’s [Maine] director, Mr. St. Pierre, are right. The idea of a park, she said, “floats my boat.” She prefers that her 75,000 acres become a base on which Restore’s 3.2-million acre park could be built.
14. Sun Journal May 2011 – I still love the vision of a 3.2-million-acre national park in Maine,” said Quimby, “but I know it’s not going to happen in my lifetime. This is what I can do now.
15. Maine Public Radio 9/21/11 -“I (RQ)feel best about limiting the conversation to land that I own so that’s why I’m talking about 70,000 acres and not 3.2 million but theoretically the sky’s the limit!”
16. Keep Maine Beautiful Website (RQ’s website August 2011) – EPI’s ongoing land acquisition efforts, communication with local recreational users to identify their needs, and collaboration with the National Park Service has led Roxanne and her foundation to conclude that federal protection is the best management option for EPI’s lands and the public.
17. Friends of Baxter newsletter Fall 2011 Vol. 10 #4: The total land area Quimby hopes to convey is approximately 140,000 acres.
18. The National Park Conservation Association website has a page highlighting Roxanne Quimby’s work. It states that the proposal is for 3.2 million acres.
19. Until the fall of 2011 EPI’s website maintained a link to RESTORES website. This was removed after park critics pointed it out.
20. National Parks Traveler magazine also says that the proposal calls for a park of 3.2 million acres created in time for the National Park Service’s centennial in 2016.
21. Maine Woods National park website calls for a 3.2 million acre park http://www.mainewoodsnationalpark.com/the-park.html
22. Maine Woods National Park and Preserve website http://www.mainewoods.org lists Roxanne Quimby as the Co chair. It states that the proposed park is 3.2 Million acres. Its map is the same as RESTORES map for the park.
Love it hard to dispute facts
So, some people think the new owners of the mill are the seeds
of an substainable industry, too. Talk like that is cheap. But sorry, the people of Maine have taken back our river that you mill towners thought was your your sewer. Your bosses had their Century of greed and laying waste to the environment, and they have bailed on you.
Civilization is not a “sewer” and “laying waste to the environment”. You are a radical preservationist.
Mr/Mrs Quasimondo- Read the facts below of Roxannes statements over the past 12 years. You are absolutely right Roxanne does own the land and she can do whatever she wants with it. Nothing from Preserve Maine Traditioins says that she cant do anything with her land. Is there a concern of manythat a large land grab for a larger park will take away productive forest land you bet.
Has Roxanne ever statd that the park will not grow? Will she commit that I wil be set up with restriction on how big it will become?
For Roxanne to use this land to push a 20 year agenda of RESTORE, we all have a say about that . Quoting Secretarty Salazar ‘we are a nation of laws’ and it will be OUR decison just not one rich person with land and bad idea.
In 1999, my wife, my dog and I took a 78-day, 18,000 mile circuitous wilderness trip across Northern Canada, to the Yukon, an Alaska loop, down the length of British Columbia, to the Southwest and then back up through North Dakota, Minnesota, back into Canada and finally reached home through Jackman. We slept in the back of our truck or a tent the entire trip. and visited over a dozen National Parks and Monuments and spent a dozen of more nights in our National Forests. Throughout our trip, we met the most wonderful people I have met in my entire life. They were people who “appreciate” Mother Nature and they were NOT the traditional “stuck in the mud” folks I often see in the Millinocket area – and who oppose change for the better. I ask you Millinocket folks this question: Is it prosperity that you are oppose to?
It is the disparity of of dead end summer jobs, winter unemployment, and having 3.2 million acres of Maine’s woods locked up from real jobs, traditional recreation, and access for everyone that we are opposed to.
What the heck is ‘traditional recreation’ that is going to be limited here? Access for everyone? It is HER LAND, and with all the grief she has been getting, it seems a wonder that she hasn’t made it completely inaccessible to people who don’t want tourists (You know, those other people, and mostly Americans) to come enjoy their (?) inner parts of Maine. We are hitting national news (potential tourists) with this, and some people in Maine are coming off looking like jerks. If I didn’t already live here and know that most people are wonderful, I would be looking at this like the PR tornado it has become. I hope that the people that are making money off this whining campaign are proud of themselves. I guess they are creating their OWN jobs, but seriously, we don’t need this isolationist reputation.
Perhaps you should do some research into what is not allowed in national parks.
70,000 of it may be hers, but not the 3.2m that we are trying to stop from happening. You people are just so upset that we don’t have our eyes closed on this one. Not going to happen.
That would cost her too much money to make it private.
Rejecting the imposition of Federal control is not “isolationist”. The only “national news” this has “hit” is in the viro PR campaign smearing their victims in their way. Quimby has made the land inaccessible. She has cancelled leases and closed roads and snowmobile trails. She only wants a handful of wilderness backpackers on land made deliberately inaccessible to most. That is her idea of “tourists”.
Tell that to the people who live in Bar Harbor, Ellsworlh, and Bangor who work and own real estate in that area. They will laugh your foolishness
As I’ve said to you before Larry – I live in BH – and I’m not laughing.
Do you work for a living, if so you should be laughing, because very few people up here work,because there are no jobs.
Thankfully I do have
a job. It took a lot of persistence,
determination and a willingness to stay living here. It is impossible to make it on seasonal
employment. Businesses turn over on a
yearly basis here. Summer jobs are
filled by folks from out of the country who stand in line waiting to western
union their money out of the US. Jobs that don’t pay benefits. Jobs that promise an end of the season bonus that you never get. The old
joke in town is I landed here and never made enough money to leave. Many people who work here made their own
niche because they wanted to stay. Stop whining
that a park is going to solve all your problems
– it’s not – not by a long shot. In
fact , our research shows that it’s going to make your problems a lot worse
than they are now. Capitalize on what
you have – put on your big boy pants and solve your own problems. Matter of fact – lets trade – I’d love to have
an Inn in the Katahdin region. I sure as
heck wouldn’t be bemoaning that I didn’t have any business because no one in
town wanted a national park!!!
Read this and maybe you will realize how fortunate you are!!file://localhost/Users/prouty48/Desktop/Acadia%20National%20Park%20visitors%20spent%20$186M%20in%202010%20—%20Business%20—%20Bangor%20Daily%20News%20—%20BDN%20Maine.webloc
That is well said and true and the very reason we need a national park.
No, that’s what a national park will create for the region, and destroy what’s left of its economy.
Do the people from Millinocket oppose change for the better? NO. Do the people from Millinocket oppose prosperity? NO. Its the brazen people like you that continue to tell us what we should and should not oppose, thats what we oppose.
Didn’t you know? Millinocket has a BOOMING economy! (Perhaps they need to get out of town to see the forest through the trees?)
Do you mean the forest in their Streets ?
The viro preservationists have done everything they could to strangle industry and the economy and to destroy private property rights. The forest products industry is till a crucial and major component of what is left of the economy. The viros are now circling like vultures to destroy the rest, while pretending that their “wilderness eco-system restoration” political agenda is on behalf of “the economy”.
Wilderness is the opposite of prosperity. Your emotional desire for wilderness vacations is not an excuse for a political takeover destroying what other people have and want to keep.
You, Bill Randall, are the poster child for the “minimalist” visitors that we in northern Maine hate to see on our doorstep.
On your 78 day trip, you probably spent 1/2 of what one bear hunter would spend for a week here.
We welcome any visitors to northern Maine to enjoy the “park” we have in place, but just remember, tourism is not our first industry.
Sustainably growing, harvesting, and manufacturing wood products is our major business.
Without that, all there will be is Roxanne’s preserve with minimalist and elite visitors alike spending their vacation dollars in southern Maine to buy the latest trendy camping gear at LL Bean, and expecting the locals (what few are left) to bow down to recieve a pat on the head and a few pennies for their services.
Great response! I have heard the same thing from business owners, “they come to town with $20 and a spare shirt, and only change the shirt!”
You sound jealous and scorned.
Not jealous, but, indeed scorned.
Scorned by the liberal elite environazis in southern Maine that think they know best for me and my property that they want to control through LURC and other organizations.
You will never see the wood business as it used to be. The paper industry is a dead end, thanks to emails and the internet. Open your eyes and see what is going on in this world!
My eyes are wide open, and what I see is an environmental industry doing all it can to destroy what is left of the economy here so that they can come in and take it over in order to “help” us.
i call BS on this strategy of choking us off in order to gain control, and control is what this issue is all about.
Your eyes may be open,but your brain has stopped working. No one is trying to destroy the economy of the area. Both can exist to help rural Maine.
Wilderness “eco-system restoration” is the opposite of an economy and human civilization that makes it possible. You don’t want an economy; you want the land. You want wilderness. The viro pressure groups like Natural Resources Council of Maine have been harassing and trying to kill industry for decades.
Both can NOT exist when the people that support this monstrosity are associated with ecoterrorists organizations such as Earth first.
They want it all.
Mr. Sambides’ words: ~”
Apart from saying that that the park “may encompass 75,000 acres” — not 70,000 — the proposal pretty closely approximates what Quimby has said all along.”~
All Along? Don’t you mean for 6-9 months? There are documented quotes from Quimby in various media sources and recorded association affiliations, from before 2001 through early 2011, that confirm Quimby’s goal of a 3.2 million acre National Park for the Maine Woods.
Mr. Young’s statement: ~” Just because she has changed the tactics doesn’t mean she has changed the agenda.”~ This says it all.
This isn’t our first “rodeo” with Roxanne Quimby and her agendas. The general public needs to become aware of her historical and deceptive maneuvers in her mission for a National Park
in the Maine Woods. Ask 90% of the people who LIVE IN THE AREA of the proposed park. There is much that people outside of the area don’t see.
Amen
I know…it’s so hard to trust sometimes, isn’t it?
Lovely display of reason and tolerance, I am sure you will go far and win many to your way of thinking with that attitude.
“Why do you think anyone really cares if you are “laughing out loud”? ”
There is a fine example the sort of argument that is being found so impressive,
isn’t it just, Mr. Maine Guy ?
But as you have to ask, no, I don’t care if you care,
but it is odd if do not that you would make it point, though.
still l@u
Do you mean that you provide us with our ignorance? Maybe so, for you seem to have waaay more than one person would ever need. Keep up that attitude, much like Ms. Q herself, heck, I bet you are Roxanne. How’s the weather down South?
He relies on you for nothing. You are a threat with no tolerance for the rights of others who are in your way. The elitist threat of power-seekers can only be defeated, not “relied on for tolerance” — it can only relied on to be the physical threat that it is.
There is the introspection I asked for, I think.
But it is being expressed as projection, sadly.
Which of course supports my point about
showing their true paranoid sick reactionary colors.
Under what conditions does PR like theirs
ever work … oh, well, besides school yards and the VFW Hall ?
Your posts are non-responsive and your personal attacks on people are disgusting.
Who here isn’t being just like that ?
As I have said already, And if they are not attacking Roxy Quimby, personally, they are attacking anyone would does not buy their falsehoods, personally. So all I am saying to reasonable people is: please do judge the Nimrods’ points as they are presented and on their merits. { But I’d bet some people won’t understand real intolerance of their foolishness, even when it is put right in front of them, like this. } So take the log out. Why should I care or not if you can see that I am indeed ridiculingthis typical paranoid, tin hat, neo-minuteman, conspiracy nonsense and perfectly happy to openly admit to doing it… In fact I have pretty much done so here by asking if you people are seriously thinking that you are being politically effective , by replying in like kind to the the few, the brave, the wrong again, NO PARK , Hactchet, Gun Club and Marching Society, members, here. I feel your sincerity, msscv, and am mirroring it, which just proves my boarder point, anyway. But I am tickled pink to have an opportunity to just plainly say to anyone who might who might be reading this as research into the back ground of the anti-park groups, I just would have to say in review of this performance, that on any level, … and yes, be that on any level from picking on the new Irish kid in your high school, to being afraid of the black helicopters, or to burning all the birch in the woods … … this performance has been a hackneyed showing the part of the who cares, who’s backed by or backing whom in a nacienct personal smear campaign.
This is what he wrote and then “edited” to replace it with something entirely different:
disqusbites in reply to distillrelaxin: “You rely on our tolerance for your ignorance.”
That is what I responded to below.
You depend on our tolerance of your slander and foolishness, don’t you ?
Instead of supporting the possibility of another jewel in the diadem of America and a desperately needed shot in the arm to an increasingly moribund economy; we seem more LOCALS, acting like migrating lemmings following their iconic banners of hate, fear, and ignorance, across a cratered landscape to a predictable and inevitable oblivion.
“NO PARK FOR ME” “squeek, squeek” “NO PARK FOR ME”.
Squirrel, you have finally done it! I am now a NP supporter! With your wonderful and truthful comments about the Katahdin area and its people I have now seen the light! I have an idea, when we finally get the NP lets you and I get together one afternoon, get in the car and take a ride to the NP. We can ride around and maybe see a hiker or two hiking the old snow sled trails, we may also see a stream and hopefully we will get a chance to see some of the old clear cuts and strip cuts left from the nasty paper companies. We will be able to get a distant view of Mt Katahdin, just so you know, Mt Katahdin is located in a place called Baxter Park and not many people know about it, they say if you go to Baxter you can get close enough to kiss Mt Katahdin, you can even climb it, but we don’t want to go there do we? That ugly mountain is just in the way anyhow! When we are done seeing the complete NP we will still have time to get dinner, I think we will have to drive to the Lincoln area for that but we should still have time. Well Squirrel it will be fun and to show our support for the NP we will have to take another afternoon in a couple of years or more and visit again, perhaps the clear cuts will have grown up some by then, that will be exciting! Someday you and Mrs. Quimby can sit on a rock deep in the Maine woods, share a lovely granola bar and reminisce about how you displaced all the lowlife people from the Katahdin area, shutdown businesses, collapsed industry and the methods used to do so.
PS: Please keep up the insulting comments and humiliation toward the Millinocket people and all of the Katahdin area because that will be the path that is necessary to get what we want.
If businesses were shutting down because of this, the lobby company against this should be saying so. Instead of whining about how big this horrible park is going to be. I live near Acadia, and I am VERY thankful that there is a national park near here.
OK, stay near Acadia, what does this have to do with you?
The National Park Service did not create the Maine coast or Cadillac Mountain overlooking the ocean.
The people who have lost their land to threats of eminent domain are not thankful for the National Park Service that is screwing them.
“The National Park Service did not create the Maine coast or Cadillac Mountain ”
But the paper plantation still prevents the return of the Great North Woods to it former glory.
We are only talking about bit of land the size of Isle au Haut, you all do realize .
Primitive wilderness inhospitable to human beings is not a “former glory”, and neither is there anything “glorious” about keeping people out by raw physical coercion of government force to ban private property rights and civilization. Your misanthropic nature worship is on display for all to see.
Stay near Acadia then, or move to the surrounding areas that will be affected by a NP and we might listen to what you have to say. Until then, your opinion doesn’t hold much weight.
“Stay near Acadia then, or move to the surrounding areas that will be affected by a NP and we might listen to what you have to say. Until then, your opinion doesn’t hold much weight.”
Ahyup, best to stay in Hancock County and avoid having neighbors with attitudes like that Maine Guy.
Thats good, and lost of business’ like it too, at least thes is something to go see in Acadia besides just trees, how many people would come to Acadia with no ocean, thunder hole, there is a long list of things to see on the coast.
You can make it annual family thing, and your great grandchildren, some day, will see
why the white pine is our “State flower”, somewhere, besides at the Bowdoin Woods in Brunswick.
Great plan.
Your side finally has made a good point.
Re: “PS: Please keep up the insulting comments and humiliation toward the Millinocket people and all of the Katahdin area because that will be the path that is necessary to get what we want.”
What goes around comes around.
Your threat is noted.
So I think we ought to build a Great North Woods and River Driver’s Museum
and promote Bangor and whole Penobscot River Valley as the gateway to new national park.
Millinocket will be a footnote AND A BAD EXAMPLE OF CORPORATISM AND POLLUTERS RUN AMOK.
“Millinocket history
Millinocket grew up as a pulp and paper mill town.
In fact, the Great Northern Paper Company didn’t locate in Millinocket, the town rose up around the mill.”
A mill town started by Bangor lumber barons. ;
“The beginning
Great Northern began with Charles Mullen, an engineering graduate of the University of Maine, who had participated in the building of a dam and groundwood pulp mill in Enfield.
When the Bangor and Aroostook Railroad had completed a section of its track from Bangor to Houlton, crossing the West Branch near the rapids and falls between Quakish Lake and Shad Pond, Mullen recognized that this area was ideal as a power source for a large pulp and paper mill.
Initially, Mullen brought together a syndicate of Bangor investors, purchasing the necessary land, in Indian Township 3, then he bought them out and sold half of his interests to Garrett Schenck, who was then serving as vice president of an International Paper Company mill in Rumford.
“Italian workers were imported to do much of the construction work, using a padrone system, in which contractors supplied the laborers from Europe for a price from which they turned a profit.”
http://region.katahdincommons.com/index.php?title=Millinocket_history
Pollution on the Penobscot
With the discovery that paper could made from wood pulp, and the tree harvest shifting to smaller softwoods (since old growth was getting scarcer), the age of Big Paper began on the Penobscot. … “Today’s Penobscot, with discolored waters and carrying scum and exhaling offensive odors, repels sportsmen and other recreationists. Few fishermen will wet a line in such waters and fewer still will eat fish taken from these waters. Downstream from Bangor, the Penobscot is so severely polluted that boats cannot be kept in the river because of the way the river fouls the paint.”
Richard E. Griffith, Regional Director, Bureau of Sport Fisheries and Wildlife, U.S. Dept. of the Interior (U.S. FWPCA, 1967).
The 1972 Penobscot River Study, conducted by the University of Maine, concluded that the Penobscot River was periodically overloaded by oxygen-demanding wastes, and as a result could not support most fish species or be used for municipal water supply (the City of Bangor stopped using the river for drinking water in 1959).
The study concluded that the river had been appropriated as a flume for waste assimilation and transport and as a channel for navigation:…
As with most of the nation’s waters, the Clean Water Act is a milestone in the pollution history of the Penobscot. After passage of the Act in 1972, the Penobscot River was listed as Water Quality Limited from Millinocket to the Weldon Dam. …
In 2000, the largest sources of nutrients to the Penobscot were the Great Northern Paper mills in Millinocket and East Millinocket and the city of Bangor, the largest population center in the watershed.
Although much of the river was upgraded to Class B in 2003, the mainstem of the river is still Class C from the confluence of the East and West branches to the confluence of the Mattawamkeag River. Sections of the West Branch, Millinocket, Combolasse, Mattawanacook, and Kenduskeag streams are also Class C.
http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/38/title38sec467.html
Wastewater treatment plants, pulp and paper effluent, and stormwater runoff continue to affect water quality in the Penobscot River. Most of the pollution in the bay came from upstream sources.
Sulphite liquors discharged by pulp and paper mills could be found throughout upper Penobscot Bay, and formed stinking sludge deposits on the tidal flats. This waste depleted the oxygen in the water (in the summer of 1963, there was zero oxygen in the water between Bangor and Winterport). Bangor, Brewer, and other towns contributed the bacteria-laden raw sewage of 70,300 people to the river.
http://penobscotstories.wordpress.com/pollution-and-water-quality/a-history-of-pollution-in-the-penobscot-river/
We should get the Bangor Library involved.
They’re pretty cool.
@diqusbites:disqus . Do you have access to any valid information newer than the 1970’s to 2003?This is 2012. Cynthia Dill’s group has provided us with info from 2001, when the nation’s unemployment rate was 4.5%. Today, with the national unemployment rate of 8.3%, it’s rather dishonest, at best, to promote “America’s Best Idea” (a National Park) as the key to our economic dilemma, using information from 2001. Call it what it is. It’s simply land preservation. It has absolutely nothing to do with a thriving economy in 2012, particularly in the MAINE WOODS.
Technology has come a long way. Waters are cleaner. Emissions have greatly improved.
Try to find some updates on the garbage you are spewing. It’s 2012.
This from snoopy people who believe it is going be a three million acre park ?
It’s 2012, stop living in the past and you will see a much brighter future.
The viros are the anti-industrial revolution. They want a forced return to the past of before the country was settled.
Is not this still America, where I have the right to support the causes I want too, and to speak for them and against the ones I don’t. I guess that is what happens when you get a Socialist Regime in Washington.
Do I have those same rights, even if I did not go to high school at Stearns or
Schank (sp ? ) ?
So aren’t the people that expect the right to do whatever they want
on other people’s land really the socialists here ?
What has the Stearns of Schenck have to do with it, even if you went to Medway High you do. We do have the right to not have the Federal Government involved in this. It is her land, she can block it off, as she has already done. We are also well aware the FACT that she wants a much bigger park.
“even if you went to Medway High you do”
How opened minded of you.
The National Park takeover scheme has been intended for decades to eliminate private industry and private property for the sake of wilderness. Wilderness is the opposite of an economy. The viro pressure groups have no right to impose that on anyone. These activists make their contempt for their victims more and more obvious with their smears and insults like the “redsquirrel1” creature does here. They are furious because local people have dared to exercise their right to fight back.
Impressive, too, isn’t ?
I wonder how how well it working outside their small circle of extremists ?
Who sounds like the socialists ?
It sort of reminds one of what a Brooks Farm Commune in reverse would look like. In some important aspects a lot more, and a lot less. Meaner, nastier, motivated by some very ignoble aspirations and types. Fueled by subsidies of state and national government; even as they loose no opportunity to bite the hands that sustains them; while shamelessly demanding ever more. Attempting to hold the northern tier of Maine’s economic development political hostage to their pinched, selfish, mendacity. Trying to bring back the past on the totems of the present. Ghost dancers on snowmobiles, atv’s, and personal watercraft.
Your snarling contempt for the people in the way of your Federally imposed wilderness agenda is more than obvious.
Very clever Cecil.
Now, go back under your rock.
I the years to come, children will be telling ghost stories about the old rich liberal loon that failed at getting her way….
Face it Roxanne, its over
As a lifelong resident of Aroostook County, I find it extremely hard to believe that it would spur our economy by making the area in question (or even more expanses in Northwest Aroostook) a national park. You can put a dress on a pig, but in the end it’s still a pig, even if it’s a little prettier. I mean, who REALLY thinks people are going to come up here from Pennsylvania, New York, Maryland, etc. for a “great outdoors” vacation. What is the draw? Distance is too much of a factor for something like that. People DO come up here from those far away places to hunt, fish, and snowmobile up here, though. They plan for months for those trips. THAT is what spurs our economy here. This “park” would put an end to that. How about we leave these woods to the people of the forest harvesting industry that CAN make money off of it and leave it open for the recreation that it is already used for now?
Amen. Well said.
Tourism isn’t what the motive is. It’s about fulfilling an agenda.
No argument here.
“It’s about fulfilling an agenda.”
Oh.
So what is that agenda, exactly ?
Hmmm Baxter State Park is shinning example they come from all over the world to the park.
All over the world? Mmm, eastern Canada, anyways. They love the Cathedral trail! Baxter isn’t a national park, its a pretty strictly run wilderness park with one of the largest clusters of challenging hiking trails and premier trout ponds in the North east. The kinds of people who are die hards for Baxter don’t want to be in the kind of national park like acadia where a majority of visitors just drive around in their SUVs and then head to Bah Hah-bah for cocktails.
BAR HARBOR, Maine (AP) — A new study from the National Park Service shows visitors to eastern Maine’s Acadia National Park spent nearly $200 million in the park and surrounding towns in 2010.The new report examined the economic benefits that the nation’s 395 national parks brought to their communities during the year.For Acadia National Park, the 2.5 million visitors in 2010 spent more than $186 million in the park and surrounding communities on Mount Desert Island.Of that total, more than $183 million came from people who did not live locally, resulting in nearly 3,150 local jobs. On top of that, the report says Acadia National Park employees and affiliated jobs from the park’s payroll accounted for another 190 jobs.Nationwide, according to the report, visitors to the National Park System contributed more than $31 billion to local economies and supported 258,000 jobs in 2010, an increase of $689 million and 11,500 jobs over 2009.
Oh please, it not about what they do in a park just that that they come.
And it it is just a State park.
Wonderful.
Last year AAA travel magazine said that Maine was the #1 drive-to spot for vacations in the summertime for anyone within 9 hours. That would include a good part of New England, including two of the largest urban areas, Boston and New York, and also Pennsylvania. There are businesses in the Katahdin Region that already make most of their year’s income during that period each year from these visitors. This would only expand with a National Park draw. Now, those are some facts.
Your claimed facts are a poor rationalization for wilderness preservationism. No one drives 9 hours to see Quimby’s land, and they can go to Baxter now if they want to, but few do. The National Park Service did not create Cadillac Mountain, the scenic Maine coast or the coastal economy and cannot create it in the woods.
Putting 75,000 or millions of acres in wilderness would not help the economy and is not intended to. They have always said they wanted the land for wilderness and to eliminate private property rights, industry and development. They have no intention of tolerating any more of such civilization and will continue to try to block it — as you can see with the drive to retain and increase their power through LURC to keep the UT in what they poetically characterized as “Darkness” — and as you can see with their vicious attack using the National Park Service to try to kill the Saddleback Ski Area, near but not on the Appalachian Trail.
The forest product industry they want to destroy is a major part of the Maine economy and would not be replaced by wilderness preservation and seasonal tourist jobs to serve backpackers. Nor does anyone have any right to take private property in the name of an “economy”; that is the Kelo eminent domain mentality.
Please re; ”
As a lifelong resident of Aroostook County, I find it extremely hard to believe that it would spur our economy by making the area in question (or even more expanses in Northwest Aroostook) a national park.”
In what alternative reality does a food producting area need to worry ABOUT TAKEN OUT OF PRODUCTION, by the right of or left ?
You are right it is astounding that people are gullible enough to believe this is just going to be a small park. Furthermore, as far as knowing nothing. This has been going on over 20 years. She is trying a more suttle approach. “NO COMPROMISE” well you just labled Quimby. Gates, not hunting, no going on here land. And as far as sledding, you go along with me and I will let you sled for a limtied time. I do not have any snowmobilie boots. I enjoy hiking, nature, photography. Unlinke the liberal North Massachusetts people in Cumberland and York counties, their are blinded by this latest try she has concoted!
There can be no compromise with the Big Park activists. They want to impose Federal control using the dictatorial power of the National Park Service that destroys people’s rights. A “compromise” on principle with people destroying your rights destroys your rights on principle. Their tactic of “compromise” is take what they can get and come back for the rest later.
Is this the only photo the BDN has for National Park articles? I would have thought the archives were more expansive. Too bad Mr. Sambides is so limited….
ban roxanne
My goodness gracious. You National Park opponents write and talk as though the entire 2.3 million plus acres behind the North Maine Wood’s gate sytem is all going to be turned into a National Park. Mrs. Quimby’s proposal/gift is a very small portion of what these greedy, conscienceless, landowers own. Get out your Delormes, as I just did, so that you can put things in perspective. And for those of you who have exercised your right to trespass by foot over unimproved property per the Great Ponds Act, please know that these corporate landowners who you support would ban you completely if they could – and turn the land into a private hunting preserve with exhorbitant fees like they do in Texas. Is that what you want?
You have it transposed Bill – Roxanne’s, the nps, and restores goal is 3.2 million, not 2.3 million. Google Restore’s map and superimpose that on your Delorme. Roxanne’s 70,000 proposal is nothing but a seed for the 3.2 as she herself has said for years. Pull your head out of the sand.
And last I checked the North Maine Woods Inc allowed access for all – not just a select few like the nps.
Private property owners are not “greedy” and “conscienceless” for owning and using private property. Stop smearing people who reject your nature religion. The viros are after all 10 million acres of the UT and more, as they have demonstrated in their own promotions over decades.
yes they are that is called LURC.
LURC is the instrument of the greedy, conscienceless preservationist pressure groups who want to control other people’s land in the Greenline Park agenda. People who own the land they want are not “greedy” and “conscienceless” for defending property rights.
Can not make it private they would loos too much money in owed taxes.
Loose?
At this point why doesn’t she just take her land and make it into a private park and see what it does. If it can stand on it’s own so be it, if it fails then so be it, and then if she still wants to get it turned into a national park then let her try again later.
Because a private park won’t have the power to take over private land like a Federal park would !
— and because she wants the National Park Service to impose her wilderness agenda into the indefinite future so she can control it from the grave.
Never mind it is shooting blind at an issue you have made up from the whole cloth,
it is not as if you Nimrods have any land to be seized on the paper plantations, anyway,
unless you are not really the sort of grassroots thingy you claim to be.
A private park may take away her tax break she gets, tree growth tax break, large land owners get, if they allow public use. P&C has the attitude pay us for the use and we will let ATVs use our land, got news for P&C the people already do pay for it, its called the tax break you get already.
The tree growth program is a ‘current use’ tax assessment for land in tree growth managed for some ultimate commercial sales, very broadly construed and over long periods of time. It does not require public use or other surrender of property rights, but does impose enormous penalties for taking land out of the program. There are other “open space” tax categories that are used for land left undeveloped and available for public use.
The ATV’s and Snowmobile’s Org’s get trails because of this tree growth tax, if not for that many if not all the land owners would most likely close all the trails down.
Yes, the tree growth program makes it possible for people to own land that they otherwise couldn’t because of the outrageous property taxes discriminating against land owners. But the trails are a consequence of the freedom to do that, not a requirement of the tree growth program.
I wonder why she does not post it all given all the respect you Nimrods show.
You people think it’s yours, but she is a socialist.
rotflol
So just because I said that she should make it into her own park I am automatically a nimrod?
Goggle Nimrod.
Get back to us when you are informed.
So anyone that has something to say that you don’t like is a moron, or are you trying to compare me to something greater. Why shouldn’t she take her land and turn it into her own private park, it would end all this bickering pretty quick wouldn’t it, and it would give a better feel on what effect a park would have, with out the federal control, and without having to spend tax payer money on it initially. Once you get to that point, if it is deserving of becoming a park let the future climate make that determination, scales tip both ways it can either prove it self or it can fall.
What does Nimrod mean ?
Historically it compares someone to a great hunter or leader, where as the present day definition is more along the lines of a dipstick.
Only if you’re cartoon fan, and confused by what Bugs Bunny calls Elmer Fudd and why.
This I would love to see, I want to film the line of cars trying to get to the park, it should be quite a traffic jam.
Of course it should be 3.2 million acres. That’s the best use of that land anyway.
Ah you again with your crazy retoric. I hope Roxy does spend all her money buying up 3.2 million acres. Then she can have 3.3 million acres of useless land because she won’t let anyone on it, and her park idea will FAIL, FAIL, FAIL! Then the companies that sold it to her for a nice profit, can buy it back from her for pennies on the dollar. Kinda like the building she lost money on in Portland when she had to sell it.
It’s Wayno…from strip mall central. (Windham) He knows A LOT about wilderness.
That land will be anything but useless. Of course, to you natural habitat is useless. National parks do allow visitors….and there will be many.
Again, you should get in touch with your “less crazy” side.
Stop pushing your crazy nature religion down other people’s throats with pronouncements on what the land is useful for. The land is not “useless” to those who own it. The forest products industry is a major component of the Maine economy. Property owners reject your Big Park population displacement agenda.
Actually I know much about wilderness. I happen to be surrounded by it, my family owns a camp in Somerset County, I snowmobile throughout the wilderness in the winter, and fished it’s streams as a teen. And I bet if you could talk to the animals(wait, I bet you can) they would tell you how great it is having the groomed trails to traverse through Maine’s woods, instead of deep snow. And the snowshoers, and cross country skiers might tell you how they enjoy them also. Last time I checked, cross country skis needed a groomed trail. And if you think Roxy is such a wonderful environmentalist, do a search to find out what company she sold her business too. I already know, and I am curious to see if you do.
Great. You snowmobile. Just do it OUTSIDE the park.
You go and impose your radical political schemes on people outside the country where the inhabitants want your nihilistic nature worship.
Great. You like to hike Baxter. I-95 will shut down for a couple of years all the way to Medway. Just go AROUND it. There’s plenty of ways to get there.
What Park? Would that be the one that Washington just denied looking in to? HAAAA HAAAA
What a great point, and also how many trees did roxy force the MSA to cut down when they had to relocate the snowmobile trail she closed that was a road that had been there for years, that the animals use all the time, now it will grow back in and make it harder to travel for the animals to get away from preditors, man that is some kind of enviromentalist.
Good thing the animals, which have lived in the wilderness of Maine for centuries, have mankind to make snowmobile trails for them now. Don’t know how they could have survived this long without the MSA.
the trail was on a road, you ever seen any animals walking down a road in the middle of the woods, I use to hunt all the time, I have seen more animals on these roads and trail the I have seen in the woods, sure they survived, but thes roads and trails help, they do not hinder them.
Pay no attention to him/her. He/she knows this battle is lost and is searching for whatever useless rhetoric they can muster to feel like the fight is still on.
One question? Baxter State park has the Mountain that brings people to the park, Acadia has the ocean, the Mountain and natural beauty that brings people there.
What does this 70k acres have that is going to bring in the people?
We do not have a yellowstone area in Maine nor do we have the wildlife to attract anyone, No Bufflo, no elk, no wolves, ect…
Jed: Now, you know making a simple – realistic statement like that will just confuse the pro-park side.
They want to take over Baxter, too. That was one of the original goals in the plan promoted from Washington, DC.
“Ah you again with your crazy retoric. (sic.)
That from the guy who just posted :
“you and your liberal media always having to stick your noses where they don’t belong. Now we conservatives are going to exercise OUR Freedom of Access rights on this liberal wacko and force her and her money outta here.”
Oh my, how embarrassing is THAT ?
Almost as embarrassing as your lack of a decent comment, with any information, opinions or facts.
The choir sings ?
Lets see your pirvate emails.
oh my.
Not sure what your smoking, or what “pirvate” emails are? But they must be keeping you happy.
Wilderness fanatics don’t get to decide that their religion is to be imposed on other people as “best use of the land”. The property owners decide how to best use their own land without regard to viro theocracy.
How do you qualify to know what the best use of that land is?
From a Federal Government paid economic scholar who has never set foot in Maine.
Snowmobiling is allowed in Yellowstone (though I’m no fan of that).
Until the viro’s win one of their multiple yearly lawsuits – and look up the nps rules regarding that too….it’s not even remotely similar to what we have now in Maine – and I do not own or ride a sled.
No biggie. Snowmobilers get to drive AROUND the park. Critical wildlife habitat gets to thrive.
LOL — you have obviously never seen deer in the state utilizing a packed snowmobile trail. How many folks in ME do you think own the 4 stroke requirement???
He doesn’t care. He wants wilderness “habitat” to be imposed as an “intrinsic value” superseding human rights and values.
Amen.
Snowmobiling in Yellowstone and other National Parks is banned or being destroyed by rationing and punitive costs and restrictions. The trend under Federal control is the forced imposition of wilderness, which is why LTGV and the rest of the viro pressure group activists want it.
Yellowstone’s 2000 miles of snowmobile trails (compared to Maine’s 14,000 miles of interconnected trails) will soon be completely banned. You pro park guys refuse to read anything current. Either that or you try to stifle the realities of the HUMAN SPECIES in this “Great Outdoors Initiative”, while you sip the koolaid of the wealthy enviro extremists.
Traditional values? Hunting on someone else’s land. OK. Go hunt in the REST of the state that isn’t a national park…which is quite a lot of space. Snowmobiling on someone else’s land. There’s quite a bit of the snowmobile system that ISN’T in the park. In fact, it’s possible there could be an allowance for snowmobile access. Yellowstone allows it. Forest products industry. Those 3.2 million acres won’t make or break them. Fishing on someone else’s land. Again, there’s quite a bit of wilderness that won’t be part of the park.
Having ONE bastion of untamed wilderness in the northeastern US is much more important than all that other stuff.
“Untamed wilderness” for forced “eco-system restoration” to destroy private property and industry is no excuse to impose Federal control over one square inch of someone else’s private property, let alone millions of acres. Other people’s rights to private property and accountable self government are not yours to take for your wilderness religion.
How does that view compare to European ideas of land ownership? When European settlers arrived here in North America, what did they do?
They settled on previously unowned land in the wilderness. The wilderness was previously sparsely inhabited only by mostly wandering primitivists fighting each other for tribal control and who had no concept of property rights.
Its all that other stuff that brings in the money.
How do you liberals like it? You and your liberal media always having to stick your noses where they don’t belong. Now we conservatives are going to exercise OUR Freedom of Access rights on this liberal wacko and force her and her money outta here.
Your points might carry the day.
This is not a liberlal/conservative issue. I am the Mr. Young of the article. I am a registered Demoacrat. I am considered liberal by my friends. This is a bad idea regardless of political affiliation. Unioin have voted against it, Mike Michaud is opposed to it. The Maine legislature dems and repubs overwhelmingly voted against it. Baldacci was opposed.
I understand that Mr. Young, and am well aware of Mike Michaud’s stance against it. Not only is he and avid outdoorsman, but he is a member of the MSA. My point is more about my lack of trust in the media, or more like my hate for them. If they actually reported the news, and not the drama, I might be more in tune to them. But when a mural comes down, and the headline on the front page is so big it appears WWIII has started; and then the following year our state government WORKS TOGETHER to form a budget for DHHS and a little story appears near the bottom of the web page-that to me is disturbing. And although we may be on opposite side of the political landscape, we do share the passion for this reckless attack on our way of life in Maine. Thank you for your efforts in helping to thwart Ms. Quimby.
You are right that this is not a liberal-conservative issue. Maine has systematically rejected this radical scheme since it was first heavily promoted from Washington DC in the 1980s. Last summer the state legislature overwhelmingly rejected Quimby’s demands, unanimously in the House, and in the Senate by all but three radical progressives from Cumberland county (including Quimby supporter Cynthia Dill).
I have seen all kinds of people — liberal, conservative, and various mixtures — oppose National Park Service takeovers around the country, including in Maine. The abuse of civil rights by arrogant National Park Service power has been terrible.
Sen. Mitchell, when he was Majority leader of the Senate in Washington, shut down the National Park Service’s National Natural Landmarks Program under a moratorium for its abuse of civil rights nationwide following an Interior Inspector General report and a terrible battle by property owners downeast fighting off the National Park Service, which was colluding with the Maine Coast Heritage Trust, the Nature Conservancy and the State Planning Office to go after private property the trusts had targeted. This disrupted people’s lives for years and still is. There is no excuse for it.
Article: “Preserve Maine Traditions plans to keep fighting the park proposal, Young said.
‘Unless we are there to counter some of that they will continue pressing and pressing,’ he said. ‘Who is against a park? Everybody loves parks, don’t they? Without our story being out there, they would start slowly convincing people.’
That kind of reporting as a ‘last word’ at the end of the article misunderstands or misrepresents the reasoning, dropping the context. It falsely implies that Young needs a “story” to stop people from being convinced to do what they already like.
Of course everyone “likes parks”. Everyone likes vacations. The controversy is over the attempt to use the National Park Service for a political takeover imposing Federal control for forced preservationism destroying private property rights, industry, a private economy, and locally accountable self-government, replacing all of it with centralized, dictatorial bureaucratic control from Washington. They want Maine to be treated like they treat Alaska: more of a Federal colony than a state.
The Big Park lobby is misrepresenting its agenda as if it meant only a year-round scenic vacation, with money falling from they sky in an effortless “Garden of Eden”. They exploit scenic imagery and quasi-poetic rhetoric to emotionally manipulate people into condoning an oppressive political destruction of the people adversely impacted.
Exposing that political tactic is what is meant by addressing that “everybody likes parks” and stopping the pressure group activists from “slowly convincing people” with emotional manipulation for unacknowledged political ends.
Everyone likes scenery; normal people don’t go berserk with a binge of emotional nature worship and destroy others with oppressive Federal control for “parks”.
Haha, how you like us “rubes” now, Quimby and NPS??Better start shredding and deleting.
We know you’re the type.
I have found in direct experience that NPS cannot be trusted to release or even acknowledge documents it doesn’t want to under the Freedom of Information Act. For example I found them denying the existence of embarrassing documents that I knew they had because portions had already leaked out.
You are numb…yep
I love it! All you have to do is mention Roxanne Quimby and ALL of the wackos come out! If I were a betting person I’d bet that most of the “anti” park people have also been running around with their tin-foil hats on looking for the black hawk helicopters that the UN has been sending around to SPY on them and take away their “rights”! GET REAL!
And I would bet most of her supporters have been doing something that might actually happen; sitting around a campfire with a big bag of weed singing Comb By Ya.
unlike the the non supporters sitting around swilling allens and watching nascar
Last time I checked Allen’s and NASCAR were both legal. And before you slam people who enjoy both, you might want to use correct grammar and capitalize the proper letters. It kind of steals your thunder for slamming this certain group of people.
Your personal attacks on people who reject your radical political agenda are disgusting. The National Park takeover agenda was launched and promoted from Washington DC over twenty years ago and has been systematically rejected ever since, long before the obnoxious Roxanne Quimby started throwing her money and Washington insider connections around and supporting Restore to try and revive the scheme. Quimby’s contempt for the people in the way of her arrogant, misanthropic plans has only openly illustrated what the whole Big Park lobby has been for a very long time.
more lies from roxy
We voters of Maine have to watch the senate race that will most likely place Rep. Dill ( Roxannes’ money) in the battle for Sen . Snowe’s seat in Washington !
That’s going to be fun to watch.
Run Chellie Run!
Once again, we don’t need another national park. Ours are already bleeding red, there are advertisements on TV asking for donations to fix up the existing parks. Please, people let’s make sure she doesn’t get what she wants. She’s put up gates on roads that are access to Maine Public Reserve Land. We as taxpayers have a right to access that land, yet she is blocking it. Just because she has money does not give her the right to block land that the State has paid for, to be used by us. Pray she will go build her ‘park’ somewhere else. NO NATIONAL PARK, ROXANNE QUIMBY! Leave us alone!
The reason Ms. Quimby and her “supporters” give for wanting a park in northern Maine, is to preserve the wilderness for future generations to enjoy.
The reason they want to do it here is because there are no more large parcels with which to do this where they come from, and they feel compelled to “protect us from ourselves”.
The problem is that they have squandered the resources in their own backyards, and now, because we have been such wonderful “Stewards” of this large tract of forest land, they want to “help” us see that it is properly appreciated.
I say let us keep doing it our way, as it seems to be working, and allowing people to work and play at the same time.
Really David? Your way is working? With 20% unemployment in Millinocket, I would venture to say that “your way” has led to a dead end.
Sayonara Mr. Paperback. Adios Bank of America call center. Ciao Hampden Mail Center. The unemployment line just got a little longer doing it “your way”.
~”Hunting is big business. If you doubt it, consider that fish-and-wildlife-related activities generate $2.4 billion in economic value for the people of Maine. Deer hunting alone brings in an estimated $200 million a year. That huge economic impact depends on maintaining a healthy natural resource. Managing that resource is an expensive proposition, and most of the bill is footed by sportsmen and women.
Direct contributions come through the purchase of hunting licenses, providing an estimated $1.5 million in 2011. One way hunters contribute indirectly is through Pittman-Robertson (PR) funds, derived from an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms, ammunition and archery equipment, and a 10 percent excise tax on handguns, providing Maine with an estimated $3.1 million annually.”~
http://www.kjonline.com/outdoors/contributions-of-hunters-come-in-many-forms_2012-01-20.html
There are currently 91,000 registered snowmobiles in Maine, with 14,000 miles of interconnecting trails
There are currently 59,000 ATV’s registered in Maine, with 4000 miles of designated trails
All of the above CURRENT information kinda makes Mr. Sambides’ reference to a mere 150 people in the “Preserve Maine Traditions” group look insignificant, right?
Is it because you don’t SEE hunters and motorized recreation vehicles in PORTLAND, SO. PORTLAND and CAPE ELIZABETH, that you feel that 60% of 600 people (the famous poll touted by pro park enthusiasts) ….make these FACTS non-existent? Wake up, people! Look at the facts!
Only a Liberal would be still thinking about a park. We’re trying to fill our gas tanks and eke out a living. Roxanne, take your park ideas somewhere else. Nobody is using the woods anymore anyway. Wood fiber is needed and we have NOT ruined the renewable resource that we have been harvesting for generations. Being good stewards of the land and shutting it down are two very different topics!
A lot of liberals reject imposing the radical wilderness agenda by Federal control. Liberals tend to not like their property being taken by eminent domain and the economy destroyed either. The audacious Big Park agenda is something else. Quimby is a 60s counter culture radical from the era of the violent “New Left” trying to cause a revolution on behalf of their ideology. Sensible liberals didn’t want that either.
I will throw this out there… I love MDI in March/April and absolutely hate it in july/august. It isn’t the heat thats for sure. I hate to be staterocentric haha but the tourists and out of state landowners in greenville over the summer are already ridiculous. I don’t think the 3 month revenue spike is worth selling out for. Keep the tourists on the coast haha!
If you’ll allow me to point out the unemployment rates of the COUNTIES of Hancock (Acadia) and Penobscot (proposed 70,000 acres – pretending that’s all it is), These are the CURRENT numbers Dec. 2011:
Hancock County 9.6% unemployment rate
Penobscot County 7.1% unemployment rate
So, as you are trying to paint the picture of the WHOLE state of Maine achieving euphoric economic bliss with another National Park, please include ALL pertinent numbers, including the elite communities of Gouldsboro @13.1% unemployment and Southwest Harbor @14.8%.
The above comment is in response to “droningon” ~”
Really David? Your way is working? With 20% unemployment in Millinocket, I would venture to say that “your way” has led to a dead end.”~
Development is okay with Quimby as long as it falls under her definition. The NPS system creates forest fragmentation, infrastructure and human impact, that is development. Under this premise, the only untamed wilderness will come with the greater 3.2 million acres.
The demands for “untamed wilderness” of the pre-settlement era, sacrificing people and destroying the economy and private property rights, are why this radical misanthropic agenda has been thoroughly rejected for decades. The viro activist ideologues can go live in primitive caves themselves and leave other people alone.
A new study from the National Park Service shows visitors to eastern Maine’s Acadia National Park spent nearly $200 million in the park and surrounding towns in 2010.
And what is the thunder hole and cadillac mountain of the Katahdin region? The primary use for the area has traditionally been logging, hunting, and other consumptive uses. Close that off and you will have no visitors. No one is going to head north from Acadia to see a bunch of stumps and regenerating forest.
~”
Recreation enthusiasts, many of them champions for the rights of private landowners, have condemned Quimby for the loss of access, saying it threatens livelihoods and local economies, particularly with a snowmobiling industry that generates $300 million to $350 million for Maine annually.”~ BDN August 2011
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2011/08/17/outdoors/maine-snowmobile-association-slams-quimby%E2%80%99s-park-effort/
The National Park Service did not create the economy on the Maine coast. NPS “studies” are politically self-serving propaganda. Enormous funds are spent on a constant stream of promotion of NPS.
The atv’s bring in over $200 mil, and the snowmobile’s bring in over $300 mil, let them have access to all that land and you might just might see some money come in. Hiker’s are not going to flood the area, are they doing that now we already have the Appalachian Trail who many does that bring in?
A comprehensive study should be done before any positions are taken on this proposal.
No one needs a “study” to tell him that it is wrong for the Federal government to come in and take over his private property. This radical political agenda has been studied to death since it was first heavily promoted in the 1980s. It’s long since time for these pressure groups to go away and leave people alone. They are worse than stalkers and normal people victimized by it are more than fed up with it.
worse than stalkers?
Yes you are worse than stalkers. People have been threatened and harassed with this failed agenda to impose Federal control and abolition of property rights for over twenty years. Leave people alone and mind your own business.
Personally who cares whether its 3.2 million or 75,000 acres.It land that I along with millions of other citizens will never lay eyes on. After all we would not want to create jobs in that region, have the land accessible to everyone and also have a real live economy. May as well continue to have the federal and state welfare at 22% in the Katahdin Region. Get Real People!!!
You want REAL? Look at the unemployment rate in the Acadia “region” (Hancock County) @9.6%. And then look at the Katahdin “region” (WITHOUT A NATIONAL PARK) (Penobscot County) @7.1 %. With your attitude, we thank you for not ever “laying eyes” on the Katahdin region.
Where did you get 7.1%. The only way you could get that number is because of the numbers of people who have stopped looking for work because the mill in Millinocket has now been closed for years.
If you re-read my post, you will have your answer. My statistics are found from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The 7.1 number is for the AREA of all of Penobscot County, not just Millinocket. National Parks and Monuments effect the PEOPLE in large areas surrounding them. All National Parks have buffer zones, limiting and often banning traditional uses and industries nationwide, surrounding a NP.
This isn’t just about “Millinocket”. This is a matter concerning the PEOPLE and the way of life in Penobscot, Piscataquis, Somerset and part of Aroostook County. This is also true of the Acadia region of Hancock County and part of Knox County.
We would not want the Katahdin Region to participate in such a horrible economic lifestyle considering that we are sporting a 20% unemployment rate.BAR HARBOR, Maine (AP) — A new study from the National Park Service shows visitors to eastern Maine’s Acadia National Park spent nearly $200 million in the park and surrounding towns in 2010.The new report examined the economic benefits that the nation’s 395 national parks brought to their communities during the year.For Acadia National Park, the 2.5 million visitors in 2010 spent more than $186 million in the park and surrounding communities on Mount Desert Island.Of that total, more than $183 million came from people who did not live locally, resulting in nearly 3,150 local jobs. On top of that, the report says Acadia National Park employees and affiliated jobs from the park’s payroll accounted for another 190 jobs.Nationwide, according to the report, visitors to the National Park System contributed more than $31 billion to local economies and supported 258,000 jobs in 2010, an increase of $689 million and 11,500 jobs over 2009.
From your post lgreen48: ~”
A new study from the National Park Service”~
If you are hanging on to all the “reports” from an entity trying to SELL you something, without further research, there is nothing more to discuss with you.
How many $19.99 items have you bought from a tv ad that claim to make your life blissfully easy? I’ll bet you have a closet full.
We would not want the Katahdin Region to participate in such a horrible economic lifestyle considering that we are sporting a 20% unemployment rate.BAR HARBOR, Maine (AP) — A new study from the National Park Service shows visitors to eastern Maine’s Acadia National Park spent nearly $200 million in the park and surrounding towns in 2010.The new report examined the economic benefits that the nation’s 395 national parks brought to their communities during the year.For Acadia National Park, the 2.5 million visitors in 2010 spent more than $186 million in the park and surrounding communities on Mount Desert Island.Of that total, more than $183 million came from people who did not live locally, resulting in nearly 3,150 local jobs. On top of that, the report says Acadia National Park employees and affiliated jobs from the park’s payroll accounted for another 190 jobs.Nationwide, according to the report, visitors to the National Park System contributed more than $31 billion to local economies and supported 258,000 jobs in 2010, an increase of $689 million and 11,500 jobs over 2009.
We know you don’t want “jobs” in the region. You want wilderness. Millions of acres of enforced wilderness preservation for “eco-system restoration” to displace the people and industry.
What we need to do is stop her way of income. Yes she sold the Burts Bee’s business, but she still gets quite a bit of support from that. It makes me sick when I see Burts Bee’s products in places like LL Bean and places that enforce getting outside, enjoy the “woods.” We will have no woods left when she gets done. Lets pull together and stop this outrageous idea, lets stop her funds and funding, lets leave Maine as it is.
Yes why don’t all of you get together and not buy Burt’s Bee’s product. If the few of you stop buying her product there will only be a few hundred million people in the USA. to buy her product. This does not count the rest of the world. However you might want to join the rest of the human race someday?
Why don’t you read this from the BDNews. file://localhost/Users/prouty48/Desktop/Acadia%20National%20Park%20visitors%20spent%20$186M%20in%202010%20—%20Business%20—%20Bangor%20Daily%20News%20—%20BDN%20Maine.webloc
Link did not work for me?
We would not want the Katahdin Area to participate in this horrible way of life. BAR HARBOR, Maine (AP) — A new study from the National Park Service shows visitors to eastern Maine’s Acadia National Park spent nearly $200 million in the park and surrounding towns in 2010.The new report examined the economic benefits that the nation’s 395 national parks brought to their communities during the year.For Acadia National Park, the 2.5 million visitors in 2010 spent more than $186 million in the park and surrounding communities on Mount Desert Island.Of that total, more than $183 million came from people who did not live locally, resulting in nearly 3,150 local jobs. On top of that, the report says Acadia National Park employees and affiliated jobs from the park’s payroll accounted for another 190 jobs.Nationwide, according to the report, visitors to the National Park System contributed more than $31 billion to local economies and supported 258,000 jobs in 2010, an increase of $689 million and 11,500 jobs over 2009.
And what is the thunder hole and cadillac mountain of the Katahdin
region? The primary use for the area has traditionally been logging,
hunting, and other consumptive uses. Close that off and you will have
no visitors. No one is going to head north from Acadia to see a bunch
of stumps and regenerating forest.
The scenic Maine coast has always been popular. The National Park Service did not create that or the economy. National Park Service “studies” are politically self-serving propaganda. They leave out what the National Park Service does to trample people’s rights and hurt people. Your promotional “study” didn’t mention the property owners who are forced to sell to the government under eminent domain.
Just like the restaurant near the new bridge on Verona Island, they did not even use the property where that restaurant was, and think of the business he would be getting now to see the new bridge. It would have been a great view. I think the slab where his business is still there.
What a waste.
I remember that and how the owners desperately tried to stop it only to be run down by the arrogant power of the state. Multiply that a thousandfold and you have the National Park Service bureaucracy arrogantly operating on behalf of what is decreed to be “nationally significant”.
The abusive treatment of people by the National Park Service arrogantly exercising its dictatorial power all over the country for the last century is morally reprehensible. It is illustrated in the PBS Frontlines documentary For the Good of All. http://www.landrights.org/VideoGoodOfAll.htm
Sorry, see one tree seen them all.. People don’t vacation where bugs eat them alive.. Bar harbor is unique. my back yard isn’t.
Totally agree, Mt. Katahdin is the only reason to go through Millinocket. Lived there before nice town but nothing there, and that is when the mills were at full speed ahead.
Yes, but once you left us Jed, things started looking a lot brighter, lol. The problem with blanket statements like “there’s nothing there”, is that they’re usually said by people who have no idea what they were looking for in the first place. This town has everything I need or want, and is without that which I don’t need, clueless unhappy people that can only disparage and malign. Sooooo, if you have nothing constructive to add, and you don’t care for the area anyway, pipe down and move on.
Quimby ought to stay home in her state, I heard she hated Mainers because Mainers were stupid..
Every statist political philosophy is rationalized with the notion that people are too ignorant and stupid to make decisions for how to act in their own lives and therefore need an elite to tell them what to think and do, and enforce it.
The foundations of a free society, in contrast, are that the distinctive characteristic of the human individual is his capacity for rational thought and the necessity of using it for him to live his own life — which in turn requires that he be left free to think and act for his own life with the right of life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness.
That is anathema to the viro left. Over and over we see them in the Big Park agenda and LURC control agenda denouncing local people as too ignorant and stupid to make decisions for themselves. BDN openly editorialized that local self-government is “pandering to voters” and the viros constantly call for rule by an elite with “one voice under centralized state control” in the name of “efficiency”. They tell us that we need a National Park Service government “study” to tell us what to think in acquiescing to a Federal takeover in Maine.
Not surprisingly, Quimby herself is an irrationalist 60s counter-culture leftist. In the same Forbes.com interview in which Quimby mocked and taunted the opponents of Federal control as fat lazy welfare druggies and openly attacked the timber industry, she revealed that she is a “student of metaphysics” seeking contact with “another dimension”.
The idea that statist government is based on rationality is a myth. Hitler, for example, was deep into astrology; the German National Socialists were anything but advocates of reason and the same goes for the viros now who worship nature as a mystical ‘intrinsic value’ superseding human rights and values. The viro movement that grew out of the 1960s and 70s New Left, first called the “ecology movement” was rooted in 19th century Hegelian German philosophy — German Hegelian biologist Ernst Haeckel coined the term “ecology”.
Those facts are on the website – you’re going to have to actually read it though – not just look at the pictures.
Not sure why this top posted (?) It’s in reply to LTGV
You aren’t the only one having problems with errors in disqus formatting. See this comment below on this page: http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/02/28/news/group-pressing-national-park-service-for-all-quimby-national-park-documentation/#comment-452092901
You are right that the viros are evading facts about the problems caused for people by the National Park Service. The abusive treatment of people by the National Park Service arrogantly
exercising its dictatorial power all over the country for the last
century is morally reprehensible. It is illustrated in the PBS
Frontlines documentary For the Good of All: http://www.landrights.org/VideoGoodOfAll.htm
Eventually they have to acknowledge it and go through another disingenuous cycle of the “but this time it’s different” gambit. These cycles have been repeated over and over for a very long time. They are always willing to make assurances that they can’t keep and have no intention of keeping with experiments and cons on other people that are nothing but variations on the same fallacies.
We have already seen these tactics several times in the viros’ Northern Forests Campaign since the late 1980s: Greenlining, switching to the US Forest Service or US Fish & Wildlife Service to change the color of the uniforms, substituting more state-based power, etc., etc. This is further illustrated by their hysteria over keeping and expanding their power through LURC to keep the land tied up until they can get the Federal government to take over. The campaign to control land in Maine has been going on for over twenty years and repeats the same tactics used elsewhere. There is nothing new about any of this.