AUGUSTA, Maine — House Republicans on Monday won the latest round of a bruising ideological battle at the State House over LD 849, a bill that would use surplus tax revenue to lower income tax rates.
The 72-68 vote on an amended version of the bill puts the House in concurrence with the Senate on LD 849. It now needs just one more Senate vote and the governor’s signature to become law.
LD 849 has been a priority for House and Senate Republicans over the last couple of weeks, but support for the measure has not come easy.
As written, the measure gradually ratchets down Maine’s top income tax rate to 4 percent by using excess revenue. The original proposal would have used 40 percent of one-time surpluses that normally go into the state’s “rainy day” fund to make the income tax cuts. The amendment cut that to 20 percent.
Supporters, including the governor’s office and the Maine Heritage Policy Center, said it’s a great way to help struggling Mainers by using revenue surpluses for tax relief rather than to expand new programs or invest. That didn’t happen in the 1990s, the last time Maine had a surplus, and the state is paying for it today, they’ve said.
But critics, including the Maine Women’s Lobby and the Maine Center for Economic Policy, have argued that the bill cripples the ability of future Legislatures to craft budgets because it does not account for that lost revenue. Many likened it to Taxpayer Bill of Rights efforts that have been rejected multiple times by Maine voters and others have argued it benefits wealthy Mainers but not the working class. Still more believe it will shift the tax burden to property taxes.
The bill first won support of the Senate in mid-March but then failed when it was sent to the House after several House Republicans decided they couldn’t support the bill.
Once the House rejected the bill, the Senate passed an amendment that would set aside 20 percent of one-time surpluses in the tax relief fund instead of 40 percent.
That was enough to convince House Republicans to get on board.
House Democrats were united against the bill on Monday.
“We’re skimming money after we pay bills but before we pay our debts,” said Rep. Bob Duchesne, D-Hudson. “Only the 125th Legislature would vote to lower the levees to protect against the flood waters.”
Rep. Alan Casavant, D-Biddeford, said the best piece of advice he got before joining the Legislature was, “Do no harm.” Casavant said Monday that he believes LD 849 will harm many.
The latest tax policy fight highlights a fundamental philosophical difference in opinion among Republicans and Democrats in Augusta, but it’s not the first time in recent years this fight has reached the State House.
Democrats tried to reduce the income tax rate in 2008 but they proposed offsetting that revenue by setting new sales taxes on goods and services and by raising the meals and lodging tax. The plan was approved by the House and Senate — then controlled by Democrats — and signed into law in June 2009.
Republicans, arguing that the proposed changes were too complicated and did little to relieve the tax burden on Mainers, launched a people’s veto. With more than 60 percent of the vote, Mainers rejected the Democrats’ plan in June 2010.
Now the Republican are in charge — at least for now. Their tax bill is almost certain to be a campaign talking point for both parties as the year progress.
Democrats, betting that they win back control of one or both chambers, likely won’t bother with a people’s veto this time because the next Legislature could undo LD 849. That could reignite the debate all over again.
Sen. Jonathan Courtney, R-Springvale, said late last month that Democrats were playing “class warfare” with the tax bill.
“I’m not afraid to cut the top tax rate. It’s good policy,” he said.
Follow BDN reporter Eric Russell on Twitter at @BDNPolitics.
Thank you! I voted for Republicans in the last election because I felt previous legislatures were taking too much of our money. I’m glad we finally have people who will be responsible with our money and give it back to us!
Right!!!!!
so, are you certain you are in the top income tax bracket that will benefit from this??
Because of the Democrats “trickle down” top tax rate virtually anyone who works for a living in Maine is in the top income tax bracket. Gross adjusted income around $20,000 per year for a Mainer puts them in the top tax bracket.
Per Gershwin, “It ain’t necessarily so …”
$20,000 (actually $20,350) would be taxable income for a single person not gross. This year the top rate starts at an income of $29,150 for a single person and $58,300 for a married couple taking the standard deduction. In 2013 the personal exemption will be raised to the federal amount, the income previously taxed at 2% will not be taxed and the top rate reduced to 7.95% regardless of what happens to this bill.
Yes I am certain, if you make more than $20k you are too.
Maines income taxes are no where near as progressive as they are at the federal level, that said, the highest rate kicks in with an AGI of $20,000 of which is about 9%, which also happens to be among the highest in the country. So yeah, it is not that unlikely that he is in that top income tax bracket, for all I know you are too.
Perhaps the rich like Pingreee and King !
That’s about the dumbest thing I’ve read in the past month. Why give to the state in the first place if you want back? What would expect the state hold it for you like a bank?
It’s my money in the first place. I earned it and the state is taking it from me. So, the state should pay for anything that is completely needed, and give me back my money.
I don’t think we need a road in front of your house.
I’ll bet Pete didn’t realize that the road in the front of his house is why Maine taxes are so high to progressively drive people, business and investment out of the state for decades. Maybe they didn’t have roads in front of their houses that they had paid for over and over and over.
Perhaps Watervillain thinks “we” don’t need Pete’s road because “we” would rather redistribute that money, too.
I and my neighbors pay for the 1.5 mile road in front of our houses. Held up great this winter. Costs us $200 to $300 each per year.
And I suppose that’s the only road you drive on during the year? I doubt that. The rest of us paid for all those other roads you and your piker friends drove on.
No the rest of you didn’t pay for the other roads the residents of our also drive on. We all pay for those roads not just the rest of you. What the rest of you don’t pay for the road that 45 property owners live but those 45 property owners help pay for the road you live on apparently. Does that make you the piker?
I don’t think we need a fire dept around in case your houde catches fire either. I know you wouldn’t want to bother your neighbors who are firemen to come over and help you out. They don’t have to, you know. They can stay home and finish their supper or go to work.
If the Dems are going to blow it on stupidity like Expanding Welfare, Liberal Pet Projects, Being First in the Nation in something , and Land Buys for Enviros. Then we should have the right to get our money back. It’s not the Democrats money it is the people’s money and it should be spent wisely.
How about if we just evict all the old folks in nursing homes without an income! We could give that money back too! Or how about getting rid of DHHS altogether! You may never need that either. Maybe we can privatize the Maine State Police too. We don’t need them either. We can give all that money back to you. We can rent a bunch of trucks and as soon as a Mainer falls on hard times, we can herd them into a truck and take them somewhere else. Is that what you want? I hope you never lose your job or get old and sick. Maybe someone like you will have to make decisions for your well being. Karma works.
Getting rid of DHHS doesnt sound all that bad to me.
right gsgofer, except the part about renting trucks because there won’t be any. Their “trickle down” theory is intended to benefit Wall St so they can “speculate” and now fuel costs $1,100 more a week than a year ago!!!! That alone is devastating but in turn affects the cost of tires, parts and everything else. The registrations and tolls have doubled while the pay per load hasn’t changed. Who can afford to work? Isn’t there a place called Reversing Falls? That’s how their ideas work–they’re intended to “trickle up”. But at least this will allow the “holier than thou” crowd to buy elevators for their garage……..
Yeah, we can do what Greece is doing-renting out their police force to the highest bidder.
I’m a Democrat and I pay taxes so it’s my money too!!! I think taxes are spent on a lot more than “expanding welfare , liberal pet projects, being first in the nation on something and land buys for enviros”. Republicans are not the only ones who pay taxes. You have so much hate in your soul, I can’t image even have any kind of rationl conversation with you.
Right ok if you say so. Is that why Democrats always want to keep expanding these programs. Is that why they (Maine Democrats) didn’t follow Federal Welfare Reform laws and did not kick the people off after 5 years. That is why we have career Welfare Bums here in Maine. Maine DOT’s fund was put bankrupt by Angus King and Baldacci both wrote IOU’s because the took all the money out of that fund and used it to expand DHHS. That must be also why Liberal Special Interest Groups and Enviros ran wild around Augusta with so much power . Because they weren’t held accountable by the Bald Headed Buffoon and King Angus. You must love those ugly Wind Turbines. You must like them taking good land off the tax rolls to give to Enviros so they can perserve it for birds, bugs and trees most of us could care less over. Which in turn raises people’s property taxes which causes folks to get taxed out of their homes. Though Liberals like yourself could care less as long as everyone gets their freebies off of the backs of us working folks.
The Liberals would rather have Maine and its taxpayers go totally bankrupt instead of cutting benefits to those who are too lazy to even get off of the couch. That is why you continue to see the mass exodus of people leaving because they know better opportunity when they see it. They know they get screwed when DEMOCRATS run Augusta.
not sure who you are but i definitely think you should run for the senate or house or even congress. i like a person who calls a spade a spade. to the point. goooo darkcat33!
The interesting thing is that the programs WERE ORIGINALLY STARTED to correct the deficiencies left behind by decades of Republican parsimony. The reason they are expanded is because of the FAILURE of Republican economic policy which leaves more people without jobs, without the means to pay for healthcare which is being priced out of the reach of everyone except the very wealthy. As for the wind turbines, I prefer the view of those over the view of dark clouds of smoke and particulates coming out of the power plants and factories. And by the way, I’m a working stiff just like you, I pay my taxes, and I’m glad to do it. Whether you know it or not, and with your level of ignorance and reliance on right-wing propaganda for your information-the DROVES of people leaving Maine started in the 1860s, WITH REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS AND LEGISLATORS.
Right-you’d rather Maine be LAST IN THE NATION as that’s the way we’re headed with the current crop of sycophants at the helm.
Enjoy your happy dance while you can. Your GOP TeaNuts are TOAST come this November, and then we’ll restore reason to Maine government and get rid of your ALEC/Heritage Foundation corporate toadies.
Yeah, forget you you working people of Maine. Especially those that actually employ other Mainers. How dare you. Professional students (especially graduate students studying things like Creative Non-fiction), biased MPBN types, and Occupiers need funding and redistributing it from you, through the State, to them is the best way to make it happen. Emily Cain for Empress of Maine!
Holy mackeral, is that all you have for your argument-name calling? What a brilliant mind you must have to be able to come up with all those names, while at the same time NOT being able to propose any REAL WORLD solution to your perceived problems. Yeah, the Party of Responsibility wants to make sure that we all know “it’s the other guy’s fault.”
Wow, you really hate paying lower taxes. Care to pay mine?
I hate Maine taxes so much I even refuse to buy a lottery ticket. May as well mail Augusta a check.
It is really sad to see how distorted peoples opinions, and beliefs are because of all of the political propaganda that is out there. Your comment is so off base, and misguided it is simply astonishing. Unfortunately it seems as if almost everyone’s opinions are based entirely on such propaganda. What is worse is that all of these people vote in, and vote out people who are trying to correct issues.
It is one thing if you have an in depth understanding of both parties economic beliefs but you simply disagree with them. The issue is that your entire opinion of, in this case, the GOP is based entirely on false understandings of what they believe and what they stand for, when the reality is that your party is just as screwed up as you are accusing them to be.
As for anyone’s opinion of the GOP, it is currently based on their actions which are completely contrary to the traditional beliefs of the Grand Old Party and are being dictated-the proof is there-by a group of plutocrats.
I agree. This year I have to pay 11 times more taxes to the state,using the federal tax form’s information. What a utopian state we have used for many years.With all the programs and their expenses, no wonder we were on a one-two billion dollar cliff. If it weren’t for Governor LePage, his staff and the Legislature, we would have lost many programs, and the schools could have come close to closing.
If you paid 11 times more to the state than in previous years, I would either check the software you used on have someone else do your taxes. Either that or you’re just lying to make yourself look like a martyr.
Maybe he just made that more money
You may find this not to be so much of a blessing as you think. By law education is supposed to be supported by 55%,this won’t even begin to happen when this kicks in. Your taxes locally will go up to make the difference. Revenue sharing to your community will go down, you will have to have to see a rise in your mil rate in order to make up the difference. All this is going to do is pass the costs on to the local towns .The wealthy won’t be affected as much as will the middle and lower class based on ability to pay. It may end up costing you more , and perhaps seeing reduced services on the local level.
TABOR was voted down resoundingly twice, now the r’s have found a way to get it passed. Beware what you wish for, you just may get it. A bad bill that isn’t going to produce jobs, just more deficits in Augusta. When are they really going to get serious on job creation? I don’t think they will until they’ve taken care of all the social issues that they hate so much.This is just another unfubded liability that will be placed on the local taxpayer.
I live on about $1000. per month on social security that I paid for for years. I happen to think that if local property taxes went up then folks like you and I would take an increased interest in local politics and perhaps rein in the local spenders of the ” states” money. In Millinocket for example the locals spent $40,000. on a $500,000. walking path and seem to think that the other $460,000. was free money ! It’s way past time this bill becomes law !
Hint to poormaniac: you may want to do some research on the REALITIES of Maine taxes. If the budget, as passed, stays in place, your local taxes are going to go up in multiples. The LePage smoke and mirrors economic plan just shifts the costs from the state (meaning we all pay less) to the local (meaning we all pay more). And if $1000 per month Social Security isn’t enough for you to live on, I would remind you that it was your PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that you had sufficient funds for retirement.
Wonder how you’re going to like receiving almost no state services such as highway and bridge maintenance. You, like the bunch of buffoons in Augusta, fail to comprehend that in Maine, with its small population, things like bridges and roads cost each of us more because there are fewer people to divide the costs among. That’s known as economy of scale. So what the brilliant plutocrats in the legislature have done has to set the state for the state infrastructure to crumble and merely shifted the burden to the local level. Pretty soon, our property taxes are going to resemble those of New Hampshire. Time to do some cleaning in the House and Senate this November.
No, they’ll give it to the rich people.
I wonder if anyone has considered paying off bonds with ‘extra’ cash.
Tax breaks that benefit the more wealthy Mainers while not funding them — interesting concept that will need to be paid for in the future. This will be a big future problem.
So lower incomes who this high bracket kicks in under doesn’t deserve a tax break. Are you kidding me. It’s time to end the Welfare State and Nanny State that Maine has had for 40+ years.
It’s time to jumpstart the Economy here in Maine putting in Socialist Policies by Democrats hasn’t worked and they never will. You Libs need to get your blinders off it is time to put in Middle to Right Wing Policies across the board that is how you are going to get job growth.
Then where are the jobs? Obama keeps creating them, and LePage keeps losing them.
Obama is creating jobs?
Yup. Nearing 4 million after the 8 million your horrid TeaNut Party destroyed in the Republican Great Recession.
Wow! No cool-aid running down your chin!
Obama hasn’t created anything. His punitive taxes and controls are in the way of people who do.
your taxes are lower under Obama and regulations have nothing to do with unemployment–perhaps you should do a little research before parroting conservative talking points
“THE FACTS: Labor Department data show that only a tiny percentage of companies that experience large layoffs cite government regulation as the reason. Since Barack Obama took office, just two-tenths of 1 percent of layoffs have been due to government regulation, the data show.
Businesses frequently complain about regulation, but there is little evidence that it is any worse now than in the past or that it is costing significant numbers of jobs. Most economists believe there is a simpler explanation: Companies aren’t hiring because there isn’t enough consumer demand.
My taxes are not lower under Obama.
The “Labor Department” is not a credible source of information about the negative effects of its own other regulations. Businesses and individuals complain about regulations because we are being stifled by them. That personal experience, not “the Labor Department”, is the “evidence” for those who can’t figure it out on their own and for all but those who want the government to tell them what to think.
That goes for both the Federal government and Maine. It is why the LePage administration is attempting roll back the regulatory burden while Obama has added tens of thousands (or more) of new regulations.
The economy is more complex than “consumer demand”. You leave out the necessity of production by everyone, the relations between them, and the requirements for economic freedom for both.
no, laddie , you’re not a credible source of information with your anecdotal information rather than actual data.. you sound like a polluter thats complaining about not being able to dump every where.
like we can trust complainers like you without regulations,right?
lepage is trying to inflict his twisted views on the state, see how many agree with him and you when he comes up for reelection.
no ,the idea of the economy is just that simple– with no demand there is no reason to produce because there would be no profit producing what no one wants or no one can afford to buy.
i’m not surprised you are having problems if you dont understand that simple rule
Go out into the wilderness and “demand” what you want and see how far your “economy” gets without producers.
Your smearing your victims as “polluters” does not justify your morally reprehensible political philosophy demanding to control other people. You are a power seeker who refuses to acknowledge the destruction your statism causes. Productive people do not function under compulsion and punishment. Decades of progressively increasing controls and taxes have caused productive people to cut back what they do and has been driving people, business and investment out of Maine. The dictatorship by bureaucracy under non-objective law pushing people around has reduced Maine to the political and economic status of a third world country. Normal people are fed up with it and there is a revolt against your statism.
>>>>
I guess as long as Welfare Bums get their freebies those making $20,000 and under should pay the higher 8.5% tax rate. How much is enough to the Liberal Party and the supporters here in Maine. What should we go back to the 10% rate that Maine used to have. Is that not enough because it seems to me until every cent is gone from Mainers pockets the Democrats and their voting block won’t declare victory until they see that happen.
>>>>
I’d like it to be time to give me back the retirement COLA that I earned for working for you folks for 37 years. Alternatively, give me back the job that I retired from so you could have new, young, fresh blood in there improving things.
What did you used to do working for us and why did you leave so others could make improvements?
It is time for fiscally responsible policies and actions — this is neither.
Getting rid of collectivist policies couldn’t be more responsible. “Fiscally responsible” does not mean giving the left what it demands.
The top tax rate in the state of Maine is about 9% and starts at $20,000 AGI. So are you suggesting that those whose AGI is over $20,000 are wealthy? I would hardly think so. Maines tax rates are no where near as progressive as at the federal level where the highest tax bracket is around $400,000.
Please don’t claim that these rates benefit only the most wealthy, they benefit near everybody as our tax system is not very progressive, and they are talking a flat rate for all.
Your statement is just not correct. I just looked at the tax tables, and your percentage is high. However, the main point is that unless one institutes a reduction in tax expenditures at the same time as the tax decrease which reduces revenues, there is an inequity and there will not be money to pay the bills. It is fiscally irresponsible to reduce taxes without a corresponding reduction in expenditures. What this bill does is take money that should be going into the contingency account and is a one time “surplus” to fund this tax reduction. That is the problem.
Tax reductions are not a “problem”. Money should go back to the taxpayers by not taking it in subsequent years. It is not “fiscally irresponsible” to not give the left what it demands in taxes for increased spending. The state must balance the budget each year by not exceeding what it has taken. The left wants spending to always increase to ratchet taxes up.
No one “benefits” by keeping what is his instead of having to redistributed.
Tax reductions are not funded and do not need to be “paid for”, your spending for redistribution and corruption is “funded” by taking it from the taxpayers. It’s not your money and you pay no one when you don’t take it. You are the “big future problem”.
When revenue is reduced by instituting a tax reduction, then corresponding expenditures must be reduced. Otherwise, there is an imbalance and there will not be enough revenue to pay the bills. This is common sense and fiscally responsible. If there had been a corresponding reduction in expenditures then it would be fine. But, there is not. That is not fiscally responsible.
You have misstated the legislation. Gradual reductions in the tax rate are contingent on a surplus. It is not legal to run a deficit in Maine except for explicit bonds.
I am not misstating this legislation. A “surplus” at the end of the year is a temporary surplus — it does not carry from year to year. As we well know, there can be a surplus at the end of one year (June 30th), and yet by the time the legislature returns in January, there is a deficit for the July 1-June 30 year. And, it has historically been a big deficit. We should not be giving tax breaks based on unknown future revenues.
You said the legislation creates and irresponsible imbalance in the budget. It does not. You are not entitled to keep spending at the same high level or higher in subsequent years. You are not entitled to thwart tax reductions based on fear of “unknown future revenues” in later years. Future years’ budgets are determined in the future years. Spending must be reduced (but probably will not be). You are trying to turn demands for high and higher spending and taxes into “fiscal responsibility”. They are not. That is another inversion and switch in the meaning of concepts that we see from the left constantly.
Whether you like it or not, taxes are raised to cover the costs. If there are no costs, there is no need for taxes. All this Legislature had to do was make corresponding cuts to cover the decrease in revenues. Plain and simple.
You have no entitlement to arbitrarily raise taxes for the “costs” you demand we fund. Giving in to the statist demands of the left is not a “fiscal responsibility”. That is not what the concept means. Your claim that this legislation is “fiscally irresponsible” is false.
The legislature should be cutting spending. For the current tax cut legislation under discussion here to be meaningful requires that legislators act in good faith to lower spending rather than the usual spending as much as they can in order to “use up” current tax receipts out of fear of “losing” them. That is why there is so much skepticism that we will ever see a 4% rate contingent under this legislation on cuts in spending.
Tax bases, the amounts that rates are applied to are not static and are affected by changes in the rates. There does not neccessarily need to be a dollar to dollar exchange. One of the most glaring examples is the federal luxury tax that George Mitchell & Co placed on yachts in the early 90s. Resulted in the lost of 23,000 jobs in the boat building industries. Another is the elimination of sales tax on airplane parts and repair parts just passed by the State of Maine. Oxford Aviation and other Aviation companies in the Portland area are now hiring. That being said if you can accurately forcast what the result of a change in a tax rate will be you can make a lot of money doing just that.
Mini-TABOR indeed. Also looks like voodoo economics.
How so?
People being allowed to keep more of what is theirs’ instead of having it redistributed is not “voodoo economics”. The potential income tax cuts in this legislation are not Tabor. Potential tax cuts contingent on less spending are not a limit on the power of government.
I wish they would use up the money to pay off the debt and reduce interest payments making it possible to pay off more debt.
That approach would have helped in the form of reducing the borrowing in bonds before it occurred. Keeping taxes high or increasing to pay for progressive spending will not stop the spending and borrowing.
For the GOP/Tea Party anytime they can manage to gain power it’s a “Rainy Day” and time to give away as many funds as they can to help those who need it the least. It’s all perfectly logical if you’re selfish and or dimwitted. Hey, how’s about fixing some roads or paying off some of our debts? Guess that would be helpful to too many peasants.
Sounds like it’s a people’s veto campaign in the making!!!
Yeah go ahead repeal it. The Anti-Economy Liberals need another Big L in the loss column. The Liberals haven’t been good on Tax Referendums lately. Once the people especially us working hear the income tax rate gets lowered then the Liberals repeal it. The Liberals better be prepared for the backlash. The Dems better hope it doesn’t backfire on them because it could be used against them in future years.
To be in the top tax bracket in Maine, you onlu need earn $18,000 if single, $32,000 if married. Your post, as usual, makes no sense.
How civil of you to speak so politely. Of course paying off debts, repairing our infrastructure, or might I even suggest “Investing” in new infrastructure makes no sense what-so-ever. Better that we all keep a few bucks in our own pockets so we can buy more beer or lottery tickets. Golly gee weez what could I have been thinking!
The government does not need to collect sales tax or income tax, New Hampshire is a good example, property tax is the way for communities to fund all programs so a centralized government isn’t spending it on stuff that local communities don’t need. We fought the revolutionary war because we were tired of taxes with out representation, we are getting to that point, with all the taxes on gas, cell phones and several others that are put in place by agencies that were not elected but appointed, I suggest we eliminate all taxes and fees and make congress and the legislature have to vote for each one all over again to put in back in place and also justify their vote to their district.
why sure , cut all services until it’s your ox that gets gored….and when your property tax sky rockets what will you complain about then..
You are talking about taxable income. This year the top rate starts at an income of $29,150 for a single person and $58,300 for a married couple taking the standard deduction. In 2013 the personal exemption will be raised to the federal amount, the income previously taxed at 2% will not be taxed and the top rate reduced to 7.95% regardless of what happens to this bill.
That just means that someone making $22 billion a year pays the same tax rate as you!
You mean the debts that your Democratic friends saddled us with?
They will blame it on Bush or anyone else . It’s never the Liberals fault. Just like the $4.00 a gallon gas, diesel, heating fuel. The 8%+ unemployment not to mention the 20%+ total unemployment , underemployment (not counting those who stopped job hunting). The Liberals put the blame on everyone else for the credit downgrade done by Nobama. It’s all our fault the Liberals will never get the blame by anyone including these papers here in Maine.
even republicans say its the BUSH recession. —-”
Joe Weisenthal of Business Insider responded that the Obama administration was facing conditions unprecedented in post-War America, such as the housing bust, the financial crisis and the subsequent credit crisis. He also calls President Reagan a “deficit lover.”
“The conditions behind the Great Recession were far worse than anything Reagan inherited, and Obama has pulled off a recovery with less of a sustained growth in Federal Government spending,” he wrote.
and the cost of gas , heating fuel., etc? what are you, a communist..we are selling all of it abroad, there is NO shortage. its just capitalism at its best, enjoy it
Nice try Obama is in his fourth year of office he has all the blame now. His “grace” period is over. If he can’t man up and start doing his job and start having a spine he will get re-elected. Though right now most of American’s want him gone . Nobama’s approval rating is only at 40% and on economic issues he gets about a 70% disapproval rating. Most folks who rather have Romney on the Economy than Obama even Santorum gets higher ratings on the Economy right now than the Socialist Emperor.
untrue as usual–from a BUSINESS daily _____”President Obama leads likely Republican nominee Mitt Romney in the latest IBD/TIPP poll, thanks to a gender gap. But Obama’s large margin among women may be less important than his slim edge among men.
The poll shows Obama beating Romney, 46%-38%, with 10% undecided among eligible voters. Obama leads, 48%-35%, among women overall and a whopping 56%-25% among single women. But Democrats have traditionally had an edge with the female vote. More striking is the fact that Obama narrowly leads Romney, 44%-42%, among men. Romney led this group, 47%-42%, in March, but Obama led, 45%-43%, in February, suggesting that Romney is vulnerable among male voters.
from Investors business daily
You were the one ranting about lazy people not getting up off the couch to go find a job and now you are saying there are no jobs! Just what do you expect them to do? Die? You talk about people leaving the State when we have a Government that is strictly anti-labor and a Tea Potty Governor. Do you know who started the Tea Party? Acouple of the richest people in the US! Do your homework. The brothers only care about making more money…definately not you. You won’t see those tax cuts in your check.
Who has been promoting the Welfare State in Maine and this country the Democrats. Is that why they want to bailout everyone and give Welfare to those who work. If the Republicans didn’t get control of things here in Maine we would be totally bankrupt because of DHHS AND Welfare Expansion. So its a good thing to punish those of us who do things honestly who get off our butts and go to work everyday. It’s ok to force people on lower and middle incomes pay the higher brackets on the income tax. You realize folks only making $18,000 a year start getting hammered at the higher income tax rates. It’s not right.
You are the one saying that 20% of the people in this State are out of work! That’s because there are no jobs for a person supporting a family! Then we have the Repubs kicking them while they are down..Cutting unemployment, now doing their best to destroy comp, and people like you doing their best to cut them down and make them feel more useless than they do already! What do you propose to help them? NOTHING! Just kick them when they are down. Someday, if you arn’t already, you are going to find yourself in a down and out place and someone with a glint of homanity will be there to help you out. That’s the way Mainers….True Mainers are.
How is this giving to those who need it the least?
Nothing is being “given away”. The money belongs to the taxpayers it is taken from. In the country we have the right life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness in our own lives. That is not “dimwitted”. Paying off someone else’s debt does not stop him from spending and borrowing more.
Surpluses, are the idiots who actually run the Maine Legislature talking about surpluses. Don’t they listen to what they have been preaching for the last two years? WE ARE BROKE. What a bunch of BS this entire bill is. Talk about a feel good measure for your base. When was the last time Maine had a budget surplus? According to the experts there is no budget surplus anyplace in Maine’s future so what do the tea party republicans do? Pass a meaningless bill that would take any money that is left over after paying all the State’s expenses and reduce taxes. This might be good legislation if we were in a financial position where we had extra money coming in, but we are BROKE.
So you would rather have the Welfare crowd continuing to get our money. They didn’t earn it. As a working Mainer and Taxpayer, I don’t mind the money going to Education, Maine DOT and things that are useful. But totally using the money to expand DHHS and Welfare is not worth the money. We need to grow businesses, jobs and wealth in this state. Something Liberals and those living off of our tax dollars have absolutely zero interest in. If they had their way the Liberals would totally bankrupt this state and its taxpayers by putting in a complete Socialist Haven for those who want to mooch off of working people’s money.
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Okay so Darkcat apparently is the only working and taxpaying Mainer left. Well that is if you actually had been following his postings on these boards. It is Darkcat’s money that pays not only for Welfare, but also for Education, Roads, Bridges, Prisons, Courts, DOT, The State Police and just about everything else that the State of Maine spends money on. Hell Darkcat is the one responsible for paying the people who plow our roads. Darkcat must have one hell of a good job if it is his money that is paying for all of those things. I guess the money the State takes from me and others who do not share the same level of hatred of those less fortunate then we are must be tossed into the ocean or just destroyed. Darkcat tell us that we need to grow businesses, something I have done, and I agree with him on that count but there is one tiny problem with his reasoning…..The State doesn’t grow businesses. Have you ever grown a business Darkcat? Do you actually know what goes into doing so? Have you ever had to meet a payroll Darkcat? To hear Darkcat and the Darkcats of this world tell it there are no working or taxpaying liberals in the entire State of Maine. The only taxpayers are conservatives. And we all know that there are no conservatives who are receiving any form of Government assistance. I find that especially hard to believe in as much as Social Security, Medicare and Unemployment insurance all all lumped into government assistance by the radical right tea party. Darkcat will yell and scream about welfare, well unless it is welfare for a corporation or private interest. In that case he is all for it. Oh and one other thing Darkcat the subject matter of my comment was the passing of a law that would put any excess money that the State of Maine takes in toward lowering the tax rate even though there hasn’t been a surplus or is there one forecast for the immediate future. Your rant completely left that out.
Yeah, so how much time is Darkcat spending lobbying the national government to end the multi billions of dollars in tax subsidies to the oil corporations, or the sugar corporations, or the military industrial complex? How about all that government waste? Oh, no. He couldn’t do that. Too many of his corporatist masters who play him like a puppet would not be able to buy another mansion, and wouldn’t that be so sad. The right wing DESTROYS jobs and DESTROYS the economy with their race to the BOTTOM. It is good wages, investing in education, infrastructure, research and development, ensuring a healthier society, etc. that provide not only the consumers we need but also the thinkers we need, and the means to get goods into the market, and technologies and industries of the future. We could be well on our way to saying goodbye forever to oil right now if not for the BACKWARDS right wingers who despise ANYTHING, even science and innovation, that would harm the billions of dollars of their corporate masters. The GOP grand plan is a corporate plutocracy with a very small number of people owning everything while everyone else has diddly squat. The GOP needs to GO, and come November, we are going to have a “See Ya Later”celebration in a big way when we send the TeaNuts packing.
Yeah is that how Democrats have destroyed jobs for 40 years here in Maine. You need to get off the kool-aid and see how things have “gone on” here in Maine. Because most of us have seen the light and aren’t being fooled by the Emily Cain’s, John Martin’s of the world anymore.
Really as I pointed out before your stupid thoughtless ignorant Liberal rant. It’s ok for the $20,000 and under folks to pay the high 8.5% income tax rate as it kicks in at that level for those folks. I find it funny that folks like you and the rest of the Libs call these folks rich. Majority of Maine is poor, its not because of Republican policies the last 40 years because Republicans weren’t in power. I would tell you this if I was in Augusta I wouldn’t be giving those on Welfare anymore handouts. I would be putting them last. I would be putting businesses, working people and infrastructure first and education 2nd. That is why Maine is dead last in about every economic category because we spend too much, tax too much, majority of Maine is on Welfare or Subsidies. But Liberal Democrats in Maine think everything is rosy and more of the same should continue to go on.
You have lost all credibility on the subject of fiscal restraint.
Your advocacy that we “lend” private developers $300,000 in taxpayer funds (interest free for 7 years) so they can study a profit making private business deal is WELFARE just as giving a check to a perfectly healthy lazy citizen is welfare. The difference being the citizen charity case spends his/her money in local private businesses, while your corporate entity will no doubt “hire” an out-of-state evaluator.
The last time Maine had a surplus, they spent it on more programs. Now that the economy has tanked, the programs still exist, but the money to pay for them doesn’t. Maine would have done better to lower taxes in the 90s and allowed for a better business climate, and a wealthier population than to have what they have now: little wealth and lots of people struggling with no ability to fund programs.
How much wealthier would the average person had been if taxes had been lowered as you suggest?
The point is that the surplus would go back after the bills are paid, but not the debts. That’s wrong.
The debts are on a re-payment schedule.
The taxpayers are going “broke” and are fed up with the progressively increasing taxes and controls. State spending is higher than ever; the state is “broke” with respect to political demands to spend more than it has. You have run out of victims willing to be increasingly looted.
Lets steal from the poor and give to the wealthy, that is the way to get reelected.
How is anybody stealing from the poor and giving to the wealthy?
It didn’t work for the Democrats in the last election. Taxpayers are fed up with being stolen from on behalf of the politically powerful and wealthy political class living off productive people who are punished for producing.
Feed it to the rainy day fund.
The government should take more of our money and keep it in case it rains. There is always an excuse for more.
Yeah GOP corporate toadies. Every time anyone dares say that we should stop taking from the poor and middle class and giving it to the rich is just “playing class warfare.” In other words, “WE, THE GOP TEANUT PARTY, EXIST TO FURTHER ENRICH THE RICH AND DESTROY THE MIDDLE CLASS. YAY! HURRAY FOR US ! And anyone who disagrees is just playing class warfare.”
Do you know anything at all about state taxes in Maine? Your comment suggests that you do not.
To start with the MHPC thinks it’s a great bill. So far anything that they seem to be lauding has been an attack on the working poor of this state.
Just another attempt at the trickle down policies of Reagan. It’s been over 30 years to see the results of all the jobs supposed to be created by the trickle down theory. So far it has shown itself to be a boon in job creation, just not in this country.
Trickle down? In 2001 a family of four making $40,000 paid federal income taxes of $1,924. In 2010 they did not pay any federal taxes and received a check of $2,523 for a tax cut of $4,447 ($800 of that was Obama’s make work pay credit). There have been significant income tax cuts for all incomes but it is much easier to repeat tax cuts for the rich and trickle down.
Trickle down? In 2001 a family of four making $40,000 had a lot more purchase power with their money than they do today. In 2001 there were more people working at that pay rate than there are today. Those that were and got laid off are making a lot less today.
In 2001 we hadn’t gone into two wars (unfunded) then gave all sorts of tax breaks. Sort of like a family of 4 deciding to have two more children and quitting one of their jobs.
The US dollar is worth 65% of what it was worth in 2001. Since we get most of our goods from abroad now, that translates into a 35% pay cut.
So they “gave all sorts of tax breaks” not just to the rich so no need for trickle down. Giving tax cuts to the poor and middle class do not work at creating jobs also?
Poor working people aren’t out hiring people. When Bush gave tax rebates a few years ago most working poor put every cent into their oil tanks to heat their homes.
So far 69% oppose, 31% favor. There is hope.
Isn’t it amazing how those opinion polls tend to be close to 61% against and 39% for. Where have I heard those numbers before!!
The other candidates got even less of the votes, so I never understood how the “61%” was relevant.
Use the objective part of your brain and think about it.
Class warfare exists, and the rich are winning. America is losing.
That is not true. Besides, what does that have to do with this article?
Everything
Senator Jonathan Courtney, Republican of Springvale, is quoted in the article as accusing the Democrats of class warfare. Google ‘Republican’, ‘tax rates’, and ‘what to say’ and I wouldn’t be surprised to hit “class warfare”. It’s sort of a mantra with them.
Becoming successful is not “warfare” and does not make America “lose”. The class warfare is the left’s ugly fanning of envy and resentment among those who are successful.
If they truly want to lower the tax rates why not increase the income brackets for the middle class so they wouldn’t be paying the top rate after $18,000 not just lower the top tax rate which mostly benefits the rich.
How about taking the lowest tax bracket and not taxing that income. That would be approx $5,000 of income that would not be taxed. How about raising the personal exemption to the federal amount for another $950 per exemption that will not be taxed? Oh, they did that last year and will be effective 1/1/13.
It is about time….
It seems quite clear that almost nobody knows anything about state taxes. Since nobody seems to know what the tax brackets are here in Maine, let me post:
$0+ 2.00%
$5,000+ 4.50%
$9,950+ 7.00%
$19,950+ 8.50%
The bill would lower the rate to 4%. So who does that effects? Well, that effects everybody, those who make $4,999 and less would go from paying 2% to 4% on their $4,999, which is about an extra $100. But don’t worry, because the Federal Government, as well as the state of Maine takes wonderful care of these people.
Everybody else in the state of Maine whose AGI is greater than $5,000 would see their rate drop. Those whose AGI is $10k would see their rate nearly cut in half. Those who make $20k would have their rate cut in more than half.
So no one is stealing from the poor to give to the rich, the income tax brackets in this state are not very progressive, where a majority of the people fall into the top bracket.
All anyone seems interested in is regurgitating the totally false political spin, it is no wonder this state is so messed up.
Those are 2011 taxable income brackets not gross income for a single person. The top rate starts at a gross income of $29150 for a single person and $58,300 for a married couple. Last time I read the bill would only lower the top rate not increase the others. In your example once your taxable income is over $5,000 you don’t pay 4.5% tax on all your taxable income. Only the amount over $5,000 gets taxed at 4.5%. Regardless of this bill the rates are already going to be adjusted in 2013. The top rate will be reduced to 7.95%, the 2% bracket will not be taxed so the $5,000 shown above will not be taxed, and the personal exemption amount will be raised to the federal amount. There are other changes in the bill passed last year.
Actually, someone who only made $4,999 would not be taxed at all on income. As a matter of fact, couples making under $37,000 would not be taxed at all.
Theoretically true in practice not so much. My Aunt and Uncle who live in Gorham have an income of $32,500 with assets coming from two social security checks, and two pension plans. They also have paid off their home and some of the income is derived from tenants living on the second floor. Neither partner has attained the age of 65, and neither is disabled.
Last year they had their taxes professionally done by ex-IRS agents who now do taxes for the elderly for free,
They paid 2,374 in Federal tax, and $407. in State tax.
I thought this was rather high, so I ran their figures through my turbo-tax system and got EXACTLY the same results.
I should have been more specific. Under LePage’s tax cut, due to be in effect in 2013, couples earning under 37,000 will have no state income tax liability.
That was the estimate when the bill came out of the taxation committee and the statement was a couple with two children not a couple making $37,000. With the bill that was passed taking the elimination of the 2% bracket, the increase of the exemption amount to the federal, the increase of the standard dedution for married filers I cannot get a married couple with two children down to zero Maine income tax. As it is tax season I don’t have time to do the exact calcuation but the income at which a married couple with two childen pay no Maine income tax is somewhat lower than $37,000.
This bill is right out of the ALEC/ Heritage Tea Potty playbook and is BAD for the people of Maine. Voodoo economics regurgutated. Time to flush the Tea Potty.
Yes, you should be given absolute control so none of us is allowed to pursue his own interests for his own life. All work should be done for the state through universal human sacrifice. Flush the rights of the individual! Into the voodoo cannibals’ pot for all.
The Maine GOP will cut services and road repairs and education and everything else so they can give the money in the form of “Tax Relief” to their MILLIONAIRE Friends… Pure Evil…
we want your money and we will show you how to make the goverment bigger for you. Thats the democractic way.
We all can afford to pay more in taxes; I suggest a rate of 12% for the top earners and a bottom rate of 5% for everyone. We all should more pay taxes and we can certainly all afford to pay more! All one has to do is drive by homes and notice all the “toys” – motorcycles, atvs, snow mobiles, recreational boats etc.setting out in everyone’s yards. Walk into almost any home and you”l find expensive stereo systems, large television screens, games boxes, computers, and other “techno toys”. Is it so necessary to have all these non-essentials when 18% of our children live in poverty? I think we can do better by our children folks.
Absolutely confiscate money earned by workers to dump into D.H.H.S. where losses have been in the range of 20 to 30 million dollars in four of the six administrations.
Please tell me how that helps children?
Here’s something you will never read in the Bangor Daily News.
http://www.stateintegrity.org/maine
The most corrupt State in New England… They had to work on that!
No, no, no. We need a top rate of 105% and a bottom rate of 112% — to make sure no one escapes — with both rates for everyone. We must ensure that the right of life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness is extinguished for all. Everyone must be dragged down to the lowest common denominator, with no one allowed to enjoy a “toy” until every primitive everywhere on earth is given what we have — and more just to be sure. People must be forced to live in collectivist subservience for the tribe, enforced by government power so no one dares to try to escape for his own miserable worthless life. Only the miserable worthless lives of others are worthy of sacrificing to.