In all the shouting about a potential highway cutting east-west across Maine, residents are forgetting something: It’s not happening yet.
So people picketing and bullying highway promoter Peter Vigue, chairman and CEO of Cianbro Corp. — causing him to bring bodyguards when he travels sometimes — tend to lose credibility even if their point might be worth hearing.
The idea behind the 230-mile privately owned east-west highway — and let’s remember, it’s just that, an idea — is one worth considering. Objecting to it before a feasibility study contract has been awarded, let alone before the study has even begun, doesn’t help protesters make well-informed arguments.
A big question is whether it makes economic sense to build a highway potentially stretching from Calais to Coburn Gore. Would the traffic flow be great enough to offset construction and other costs? Who will pay the tolls needed to keep the highway maintained? Will the new route save freight companies enough travel time to make it worth their while?
An independent feasibility study — authorized by a bill signed by Gov. Paul LePage in April — will be essential in providing answers, and further studies are needed to determine environmental effect. Several studies have been completed in the past, but this potential project has a different route and would be bankrolled by private investors.
The highway could benefit the state by connecting it to larger commerce centers, such as the Great Lakes region or the European and Middle East trade markets, via the Eastport port. It could invite greater investment.
There undoubtedly would be environmental costs, however. The $2 billion highway would be the largest private development ever in Maine when considering its length, construction process and the extent of its permitting requirements. Wetlands are a serious potential concern, as are wildlife areas.
But the extent of the rewards and problems are not yet fully known. In fact, the exact route hasn’t even been specified — though Vigue has said it would likely follow the Stud Mill Road to Costigan, cross the Penobscot River and head to Milo, south of Dover-Foxcroft, Monson and The Forks before connecting to Route 27 and into Canada.
Why hasn’t he revealed the exact route publicly? Because some homeowners have been afraid of harassment and asked him not to discuss it, Vigue said. Plus, the road has not been designed.
“People have been intimidated. There are mailings and information out there that are totally inaccurate,” he said. “If the study indicates we shouldn’t move forward, so be it.”
Vigue said the road would not go through conservation areas, would not run through communities and would not divide the North Woods. (It would run between Dover-Foxcroft and Dexter). Because it’s a private project, developers would not have eminent domain rights.
People have valid concerns about the highway, such as whether it will be audible from their home or what it will do to potential deer-wintering areas or the habitats of rare species.
But stop the hostility. Have the conversation. At the very least, wait for all the information.
Well done BDN. Thanks for correcting some misconceptions.
I am totally sympathetic to people’s concerns, especially about noise and lights. This article is correct, there are many things to look at in regards to feasibility. But who does it profit is one of the first questions. How many will be positively served by this and how many will have their quality of life damaged. We’ve seen how ‘progress’ sometimes isn’t progress at all. I worry about the ‘private’ interests being the ones benefitted and no one else. And I don’t think people should sit around saying “I’ll just rely on the experts”.
Let’s go back to Adam Smith:
1) Profit is good.
2) Profit belongs only to those who invest the capital.
3) Maine has plenty of trees. This road won’t hurt anything. It will, however, save lots of gas for those who have to travel all the way up and over the State of Maine.
When quoting Adam Smith’s “The Wealth of Nations, ” The larger book
“The Theory of Moral Sentiments” that followed clarifies the much misinformation and misunderstanding of Smith’s intent in his theories.
“The Theory of Moral Sentiments” clearly demonstrates that besides
mundane economic pursuits, Smith was just as interested, if not more so,
in the capacity of people to bestow and to esteem benevolence, and to
strive for virtue even while they are pursuing their own self-interest.
The root of our motivation to act benevolently toward others, says
Smith, is our natural propensity to sympathize with others. By the same
token, our need to have others sympathize with us fuels our desire to be
esteemed by others for our benevolence and generally virtuous
character. But beyond the need for social approbation, we also have a
genuine desire to live according to the dictates of conscience (called
by Smith the ‘Impartial Spectator’). This is our highest impulse and
leads us continually to strive for excellence in all spheres of life
quite apart from any recognition or encouragement from others. It may be
prudent in our economic life to follow our self-interest to secure the
basic necessities, but this is only the first stage of personal
development toward the much higher goal of living a morally virtuous
life. Although “The Theory of Moral Sentiments” is not well known today,
it was widely read and highly praised by the leading intellectuals of
the day including David Hume and Edmund Burke. The book went through six
different editions between 1759 and 1790 and was also translated into
French by the widow of Condorcet. To gain a complete picture of Adam
Smith and his ideas, every reader of “The Wealth of Nations” should also
become familiar with his classic treatment of ethics.
By “a_patriot_sage”
more on Adam Smith:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/07/economics-invisible-hand-adam-smith
“The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They
find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little
revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life
occasion the principal expense of the rich; and a magnificent house
embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries
and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore,
would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of
inequality there would not, perhaps, be any thing very unreasonable. It
is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public
expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more
than in that proportion.”
http://stevereads.com/weblog/category/books/smith-adam/theory-of-moral-sentiments-the/
I’m all for benevolence and charity, but not driven by the power of the State, at least to the extent that many on the left side of the American political spectrum would like. In my opinion, most liberals in power feel like they have the authority to hand out other people’s money, but are tight with their own. Look at the example that Al Gore & Joe Biden set, giving a few measly dollars toward charity when they had to release their tax records as VP’s. Most business people that I know are very giving in their communities already. By taking more and more from the “producers” in our economy and giving it to the able-bodied “takers,” we are bringing inefficiency into the marketplace.
Really the Liberals have sold us all of their pet projects from the huge spending, borrowing , high taxes etc. how have they worked. Where is all of the jobs huh?. When are we going to let the private sector come in and help us build up our infrastructure. Maine is not going to grow by waiting for Augusta who hasn’t built a road in years because they claim they have no money. It is time for the BS to stop and start letting the private sector come in and do its work.
This autobahn is strictly for Canadians – as is their railway, which bisects Maine’s middle. Ever take the train to Montreal – lately? Or, don’t you visit that liberal city?
Tell your tea party man Le Page to get off the couch and bury his veto hammer. He’s the one holding up the progress you desire.
Be still my heart!! Do I detect common sense in an editorial? There may be hope for the BDN yet…
This will be a Private / Public partnership!
It is Not a Private Road until the DOT and the legislature accepts the partnership and gives the Private Investors the authority to take the tolls!
As Vigue himself has said , We have legislation for it!
He should know as his firm and others where instrumental in drafting the legislative language.
Please, someone find me some sanity and someone literate. The Act is already passed so the claim that these ‘Private Investor’s’ need the authority to take tolls is already seen for what it is, namely an outright lie since that authority is already in effect in the Act right now. The only comment I can agree with is Vigue’s statement that Cianbro ‘helped’ the Legislature write the legislative language. No kidding ! Who, or what, did the Legislature depend on and use to write the actual Highway Act ? Can we all spell b-r-a-i-n-d-e-a-d ? This does not take a huge leap of faith to see the writing on this one wall, does it ?
BDN needs to put someone on this and research it back to it’s inception and do a time line comparison of the Highway Act and the various Special Interest Group’s influence in this whole thing and when, and who, was involved. That LePage signed off on the $ 300 K feasibility study is now gonna be seen as a make or break decision. Given that Cianbro, and by extension LePage, has a huge stake in getting a favorable report issued, this study is gonna be THE most examined document in this State’s history. And it’s also gonna be watched in DC too, since this is gonna be a huge factor in the CBP budget for year’s to come, and a NAFTA item for negotiation.
For all practical and legal purpose’s, given that the Highway Act specifically gives up all of Maine’s sovereignty, authority and responsibility for the Highway, this Act, now in effect, means that Cianbro, and Cianbro alone, is gonna be the sole Authority on this road. I can not wait to see the eventual moosehumping that’s gonna come out of the 1st accident on this Highway. Add in the fact that this Highway is being built for the sole use of the Canadian trucking industry (Anyone seen where Cianbro’s gonna build their local ramp’s yet ?) to move Canadian goods from Ontario, where Irving just happens to have their commercial steel mill’s, to New Brunswick and Halifax, where Irving just happens to have numerous Canadian navy contract’s for Canadian Navy ship’s to be built in, by sheer coincidence, Irving’s shipyard and drydock, has somehow been missed by everybody. The fact is, and it’s already being talked about in the Canadian press, that both Cinabro and Irving are both looking to run the tar sand’s oil pipeline thru the same Highway Corridor and the Canadian need for this Highway is clearer than LePage’s waistline. Where that tar sand’s pipeline wind’s up going is the only unanswered question.
But the real fun is gonna be when Cianbro, providing they get the report written ‘their way’ , starts identifying specific land for the road’s construction needing to be taken by eminent domain. No less than the Governor has said that Cianbro will not have eminent domain authority. Fine, since that leaves Maine to be ‘it’ when it comes to the seizing by eminent domain authority decision. But what no one, even with the Kelo vs New London decision standing, has addressed in any specific’s is just what is Maine gonna use to pay the MARKET VALUE of the land identified by Cianbro as being needed for the Highway’s construction with ? LePage has already said he’s gonna trash any new Bond’s until he get’s his way with the State Budget. Fine then where does Maine come up with the cash for the land reimbursement’s that this road is gonna require under The Constitution’s provision’s ? That feasibility study is nothing more than a $ 300 K desk decoration at this rate. And I can’t wait to see the next round of Moody’s and S&P Bond rating’s come out with this hung around Maine’s neck.
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa,
I was merely trying to point out to those who don’t know the fallacy that this is a purely Private Venture that it is in effect a Partnership between Maine and the private investors solicitating for it.A rotten sweetheart deal partnership at that!
In 2010 legislation was passed to enable this andi do believe it was written by parties who will be the benefactors of it!
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/23/title23sec4251.html
This is fundementally wrong as it extends rights of the State to Take land for infrastucture and gives it to private enterprise.
This proposal will most certainly require eminent domain for sections of this highway and will require approval by the DOT and the Legislature before it is approved. It is not as you say a done deal just because the law exists. It appears Vique, publically is being a deceptive snake in regard to the eminent domain aspect in claiming that there will be NO eminent domain authority by the owners of the highway. Where necessary, The Government will be the takers “for them”!
Dlbrt, I do agree with you (You may now take that breath you just lost !). Cianbro, while not having eminent domain authority, is going to be the one that determines the land ‘needed’. That means that Maine is gonna be ‘The One’ to exercise that authority. Once this plan is locked in Maine is gonna have to use that authority, on and by Cianbro’s direction, or find itself facing a huge financial penalty for not being in compliance with something that they should have NEVER gotten involved with in the 1st place. This whole Plan is nothing more than Cianbro using Maine’s sovereignty and authority to expand it’s own balance sheet at the expense of the Maine taxpayer and landowner’s. Does Vigue wonder why we local folk’s are so cranky ? Gee, how would feel having a superhighway run right thru your property without having and ‘say’ in it ?
Cianbro would be smart (And please, there has to be someone else that has a brain working beyond being on lifesupport in their corporate culture) to go back, look at the local road’s that are existing and see if they can be re-worked to accomidate the truck traffic that is proposed. This solves any number of legal problem’s, provides the infrastructure rebuilding of road’s and bridge’s needed, expands local small business opportunity’s, provides the necessary access’s for public safety service’s when needed, protects both the local environment AND local landowner’s right’s, and their property’s value. That this has not been done, or at least openly talked about, is both sad and shows that Cianbro is determined to join LePage in using ‘bully boy’ tactic’s in this whole thing. Vigue should be well aware, as should Cianbro’s Board of Director’s, that with November coming this Highway Act’s rapidly being seen as a voter issue. That means that it’s existence is on as close to borrowed time as you can call it. And with Maine’s Legislature, remarkably, recently changed, and ‘about face’, position’s on any number of LePage-directed issue’s tells me that this same Legislature is now having VERY serious 2nd thought’s about this Act’s benefit’s and associated liabilites, not all of them money connected ! Like it or not, Petey, you stuck your head, Cianbro’s, LePage’s, the State GOP’s (that includes Charlie Webster’ too in case anyone has lost track ) and Irving’s, (by association) into the public ‘doghouse’ thinking no one would notice. Guess what ? You screwed up and all the dog’s are coming out. You had better start now on getting a serious running start on clearing the fence to get out.
Le Page is totally convinced that this autobahn will be built. Anything in its path will be subject to state seizure. The law is not on the books yet. Michigan has one in which Benton Harbor was seized for non-compatibility with the state’s economic plans.
Gov. Rick Snyder scoffed at a petition to kill the bill, claiming that the type was a font too small.
As in Michigan, so in Maine, Ohio, Wisconsin, Florida. Wherever the tea party lives each day to dunk the public.
Michigan’s Emergency Manager legislation is currently under review by both the DOJ and the DC 9’s for possible (as if there’s any real question about it) intervention or having it declared illegal under the current Voting Right’s Act as well as a Abuse of Executive Authority under both Michigan State and Federal law. That’s why you don’t see Snyder and the Lansing commando’s making anymore public decisions or appearance’s. Their time is fast approaching and no one wants to be left with out a chair when this music stops.
As far as Florida goes, Rick Scott is all but a clone of LePage in position. The Florida Legislature is in the process of repealing virtually every piece of Scott-drafted legislation on the basis that these Act’s violate both Florida Constitutional Article’s and U.S. Constitutional provision’s. Scott’s refusal to increase the voter participation opportunity’s by gerrymandering and restricting the Florida voter registration process in favor of right-wing candidates and Special Interest Group’s on the basis of racial and ethnic criteria has been seen, and is now being investigated for CRIMINAL PURPOSE’S , has now caused a similar uproar in almost every other State that tried to follow Florida’s example (Someone really does need to explain to Charlie Summers the potential liability of Follow the Leader when they have their head involved ‘elsewhere’). Florida’s November election process is gonna be the most Federally supervised election in this Country’s history. And Florida has no one to blame but themselves and their elected Governor, who got elected simply because Floridian’s voted in a panic, not thinking but reacting, and look at what it got them. Mainer’s were smarter and trashed the attempt to restrict voter registration by these panic merchant’s and ‘Chicken Littler’s. One can but hope that maybe Florida can be smarter the next go a round and look to see where, and who else, took the time to do the process right.
It’s going to be a Private Interstate Highway just like is done in other state including cities like NOBAMAVILLE that’s right Dlbrt NOBAMAVILLE (Chicago) they let private companies run some of their highways, bridges etc.. Take California, Texas and other states that have done it tolls are not only lower, the quality of the highway is in 10 times better shape than the Government run toll highways (Interstates, Bridges, Tunnels). Liberals want Augusta running things so we can have more corruption, more Liberals filling thier pockets and running off to have vacations in Prague, Paris, Sydney, Madrid & Barcelona Spain, Rome , also these folks going to Vegas Casinos, Golf Clubs out west on our money. Thats the Liberal way. Thats Change You Can Believe In or Moving Maine Foward as Liberals put it. Profits are so bad having private companies help us out they can’t do that. Liberals are so full of it. Liberals on here told us we would have two exits which was false, On On/Off ramps which is false how would you get onto this road then. Liberals are out of ideas because they know this road is coming that construction crews will be digging that more Maine workers will be hired. The Welfare crowd is bitting their nails as well because they will have to get jobs soon. This road is a win win Dlbrt its going to be built and those of us here in the 2nd District will be throwing a party when it happens.
The more we have private corporations running everything possible in the US, the less power citizens will have.
Plutocracy.
Seeing your use of the word Liberal as if you are clever to categorize everyone who does not agree with you shows me just how uninformed you are!
Whats welfare got to do with it? other than the welfare handed out to Vigue and his cronies to build a Toll Road to take travelers hostage!
Just imagine a world full of Private Toll Roads where you pay the owner to get through every piece of property to get to your destination!
That is why Eminent Domain is in government laws in the first place. It benefits the population as a whole rather than allowing private owners to hold Commerce Hostage!
You can get on at Calais. The only change you can believe in, will be when Le Page hands the keys over to a real governor.
You apparently weren’t there last night when Vigue stated unequivocally that this not a public/private project.
Vigue can say anything he want’s. At the end of the day it’s the Highway Act that is the final authority. And what Act has been legislated can just as easily be repealed. Vigue knows that. Why do you think he’s so publicly opposed to a voter referendum and trying , at almost every opportunity, toplay that option down or keep that option quiet ? No, Vigue and Cianbro have managed to do everything but take a ‘leak’ on the public’s leg and try to tell us it’s raining in their attempt’s to ‘smoke and mirror’s their way out of this whole mess. The more statement’s that Vigue makes about the Act (and what he doesn’t say as well !), the more the public begins to ask those nasty and ugly basic questions about just who stands to benefit and who’s gonna be the one bent over the saw horse with a bullseye painted on their rump with a brass spitoon next to it when all is said and done. And as demonstrated here, well, the media is providing the forum for all of this to happen. And in Maine, as Vigue now knows all to well, the media is everywhere !
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Why because it creates jobs, would bring economic growth to areas that desperately need it. Because the private sector will build it meaning it will do something Augusta never does and that is do anything right. Instead of continuing to the process of people dragging their feet we might actually put people to work and start growing Maine’s economy. The Liberals and Environmental Wackos are in the dumps because Maine may finally be starting to head in the right direction. That their park has hit an iceberg and has sunk to bottom of the ocean they now gotta find something new to whine about to stop progress here in Maine. This highway is going to be built nothing the Liberals can do. It can be done just by having the DOT and The Governor using Maine Law declaring an emergency to have the highway built for the Economic Need of Mainers and it will be done. The Left needs to go find something new to complain over their record the last 40 years is awful, especially the last few years is abysmal they lost on everything from Referendums, Control of Augusta now they are losing to the people as well. Build baby Build let’s bring more jobs and propserity to Mainers.
You know, sometimes private or not, private businesses also make mistakes judging markets for goods and services and go belly up. It isn’t just government that goofs. (Watch the developing Facebook IPO for more on this phenomenon.)
The thing is, do we want to get stuck with this highway through the woods after all the cost overruns and then with traffic that fails to live up to the overly optimistic forecasts? I mean, how many trucks can Irving send from Ontario over to New Brunswick and back every day?
Think Irving’s Canadian Navy contract’s for pre-formed ship component’s, and Irving’s ore from Bald Mountain going to Canadian smelter’s.
delete
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PROFIT = EVIL to the far left enviros. PROFIT = JOBS for the rest of us. Time for some PROFIT!!!
PROFIT=GREED to the sensible, PROFIT=JOBS to the rest of you.
Profit at the expense of the environment is “evil…” but really unnecessary, shortsighted, cutting off the nose to spite the face, leaving the victim rather ugly… There is a better way to realize profit. Time for that…
I have not seen anything that the enviros will approve of that will improve infrastructure in central and northern Maine, where jobs are needed most. It’s ok to desecrate mountains with those gawd awful windmills ( all in the name of “green” energy ) which is about as hypocritical as it gets. Cut trees down and build a much needed road though and it’s evil. I guess I just don’t get the agenda.
Where we do have common ground I suspect, is in the fact that there was a time in the early to mid 20th century that corporate greed DID harm the environment. Specifically water and air. That is no longer the case and I believe it’s a huge reach to equate the cutting of trees (of which we have plenty) and the actual harming of the environment. The days of doing nothing and expecting human life (other than wealthy transplants from away or the ones living off of the rest of us) to thrive in central and northern Maine are gone.
Jobs? Two toll takers and a road sweeper?
Well stated as always dc! Let’s hope this minority of whiners and enviros have their say and then step aside and let the construction begin!
I understand that Vigue wants a 2000′ right of way. Why? Obviously he wants to build more than a road. Transmission lines? Pipeline? Military top secret widget line? Fess up Peter–Why 2000′?
This is ten times wider than much of the I-95 right of way, which means ten times the land that will need to be taken from private property owners than is necessary for a road. 2000 feet wide is outrageous.
Vigue said in D-F that the right of way is 500 feet, similar to I-95. The 2000′ figure is a fallacy brought about by the fact that the Stud Mill Rd (which would become part of the highway east of the Penobscot River) has a pre-existing right of way of 2000 feet.
I own property along the Studmill Road, and if anyone can take 1000 feet on my side of the road (or worse, 2000 feet), then I would not have any property left. that is nearly a 1/2 a mile!!! I really don’t think its true. I didn’t buy my property only to have it be taken with no compensation anytime someone wants to knock out a 2000 foot swatch. Show me the proof there is a 2000 foot right of way!
Can you show me data that says that Cianbro would want a 2,000 ft right of way anywhere? All I’ve seen for data on it is kcjonez hyping it on this board.
You, and any one else within the sights of this ill conceived project, should be worried. And, you should be concerned enough to take a stand and oppose this selfish and self serving project by Vigue and Le Page.
I just checked my deed, and it clearly states “…Together with a 50 foot wide appurtenant access easement for all types of travel and utilities…” So for the mile along the Studmill Road where I own, there is not a 2000′ right of way.
I honestly believe that you might be one of a dozen or so, wondering what a man wants a 2,000-foot cut across Maine for. The Canadians have everything running through our state, as one poster pointed out. Their railway is run by Canadians and strictly for Canadians. With the road, we will probably be able to get on at Calais.
What evidence do you have that he desires 2k feet? Did you make that up or do you have a source?
Mr. Vigue’s armed guards and cries of being bullied are pathetic. A few citizens protest his corporation’s proposed takeover of a huge swath of land through the heart of the state and Mr. Vigue fells threatened. Cry me a river. Did he think this road was being built in a country without a first amendment? His charges that eminent domain will not be used to construct this road are equally false.. Does anyone think that if a land owner in the proposed route refuses to sell, the State will not step in and “take” the land? Bollocks to Vigue, his company, his tactics, and his plan.
The big question is not the economic feasibility of this road, it’s whether we live in a state where a large corporation can build such a huge private structure through the middle of the state.
You’re fortunate that we still have a few large corporations left in this State that have made a commitment to improve the lives of Mainers. The thing that most of the “takers” in this State don’t realize is that, without the few companies that still remain in this State to generate jobs that allow Mainers to make our extensive tax payments that keep them afloat, they wouldn’t have all of the government handouts that provide them their subsistence. This road won’t impact Maine’s forests. We have more trees than any other state.
Pure logic, eh? Seems you’re more a creature of abject faith if you profess to believe “a few large corporations…have made a commitment to improve the lives of Mainers.” As for those villains you refer to as “takers,” surely you should be referring to outfits like Cianbro, the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway, First Wind, and DCP Midstream.
The “takers” I referred to are the non-working, non-producing people in this State who rely upon government handouts to make their living. The companies you mentioned are smart when they take full advantage of business incentives that are offered to them. These incentives are a very small part of the revenues that they take in. I would prefer less incentives were offered to businesses, but most of these were approved by Baldacci to get companies to invest in alternative energy projects. LePage and the good Republicans just want to get government out of the way of the “producers” in our State.
We don’t need no stink’n Land Barons in Maine to survive!
If this rd passes feasability muster it needs to be built on public funding and the citezens of Maine Should take the revenue generated by the tolls to fund its infrastucture!
We dont need no stinkin “Private Highways”!
There is no political will in this State to build this road with public funds.
Then we dont need it!
Ignore it then if you don’t feel like it will benefit you. We have plenty of trees in this state. Let those of us who know something about building economic prosperity handle this area of our public policy.
The best, and most simply stated, financial plan for the building of the Highway yet. You go Dlbrt !!!!!!
Imagine the outcry from the Peter Tabers of the world if two billion dollars of taxpayer money was to be invested in this road.
I believe “large corporations” in this state have made a commitment to make money, not to improve the lives of Mainers.
It’s interesting how those who object to this project are in the estimation of the BDN editorial writer somehow responsible for Peter Vigue claiming he has to have bodyguards. It seems that almost every time we hear those shrill self-righteous cries about the need for civility there’s also the strong smell of rats scurrying around behind the scenes going about their ratty business. Believe it or not, there are far worse sins than alleged incivility.
Seeing as how Peter Vigue has already managed to help himself to $300,000 of public money for a feasibility study that’s almost guaranteed to determine his proposed project is feasible, perhaps critics are justified in feeling less than friendly toward the man. But less than friendly to the point of threatening him harm? Perhaps the BDN would like to enlighten us as to the specifics of this alleged incivility. Perhaps the BDN would like to discuss the reasons why the Cianbro CEO is now suggesting he fears for his personal safety.
In the absence of such information, I for one smell a rat.
It would cost Mainers only $60,000, as federal funds will provide the rest of the $300,000. And these funds will be paid back as the project gets going. Given the legislatures’ desire to borrow $100 million for other projects, this one seems pretty reasonable.
I used the term “public money.” Federal funds are also public money. Considering that Gov. LePage doesn’t believe matching local funds for Head Start are a worthwhile investment (but it’s okay to spend $56,000 a year locking up felons many of whom are the result of neglected childhoods), then pissing away $300,000 of our money to benefit Peter Vigue, one of our state’s most prominent corporate welfare queens, is a travesty.
I know that the other $240K is also public money given that it’s federal, but the BDN and most others haven’t bothered to report this fact, so I thought it was worth mentioning.
Your comments about Peter Vigue are over-the-top though. Don’t forget that this small $$ amount will be paid back if this project goes through. Do any of the bond money recipients pay back their “investment?”
Did you ever wonder why tea party Le Page jumped so quickly on Mr. Vigue’s bandwagon? Talking small amounts? Why should we loan money to this private entrepreneur, when Le Page and his tea party followers have failed to allow us money to pave our highways? Think. Next time you hit a bump.
Yes, they both want to improve economic conditions in Central & Northern Maine. Why would we want to borrow millions of dollars and give it to the University of Maine or Jackson Labs? At least the builder of the East West Highway will directly pay back this minuscule investment, whoever it ends up being! And I drove on my road dodging potholes for years under Baldacci–it wasn’t paved until lePage took office.
Umm, Mainers will be paying for those federal funds too, or, where exactly do you think the federal government will get the $240,000? Answer: from taxpayers in Maine, AND/OR the Federal Reserve will electronically print more money, and hence, devaluing the $$$ Americans already hold….Americans as in Mainers too.
Federal $$$ is not, and never has been, free money.
My point was not that the other $240K is free, but that Mainers will primarily put up the $60K, which is a drop in the bucket compared to other “investments” we are often asked to make. And since this amount will be paid back to the government by whoever does this project, it really is insignificant.
Maine gets back 1.4 times as much from the feds as it pays in, but that still means that 70% of the federal funds received effectively come from Mainers’ pockets. So we pay $60K directly, $168K indirectly and $72K is ‘free’. Altogether, Mainers are out $228K.
I have no views on the road, but let’s not fall for the politicians’ trick of picking our pocket and telling us it’s a gift.
Your logic doesn’t make sense in this case. The $240K supplied by the federal government has already been appropriated at the federal level. If we don’t spend it, we don’t get our portion that we paid in back as a refund. Mainer’s contribution to this $240K is probably about $400, based on our population as a percentage of the total United States. It’s the same rationale used by the bond supporters.
Somehow, I don’t think we’re going to make a Reagan Republican of you. The fact remains that we pay in federal taxes about 70% of what the federal government spends in Maine and therefore that any federal expenditure here is about 70% funded by Mainers.
Your tea party man won’t even approve bonds to help the state.
He has decided to try and protect the future economic interests of my kids and grand kids, by not saddling them with our debt. This will be the ever-lasting legacy of the baby boomer generation–a massive amount of debt given to their offspring’s generations. At least LePage is trying to minimize the negative impact that others of his generation have caused.
“Hostility” be damned. They are people simply speaking their minds. The security crew is as much over dramatized as tea party Le Page’s extra state trooper.
The project is another insult by Le Page and his weak minions, who do his bidding in Augusta.
Next will come his Bill authorizing seizure of townships, towns, and villages, not conducive to the state’s economic welfare.
NO Peter!!!! A Canadian pipeline running through Maine and Peter is the Toll collecter. There will be water lines, power lines, oil lines, rails, gas lines all running through Maine.. remember Maine can’t buy Hydro Quebec power yet Sherbrooke will have their power running through Maine. Not one Mainer will benifit from this pure trash. nope, nope, nope. Let the State invest in a toll free road.. He is on a PR tour.
I always vote republican, and this smells like diaper filling. I will let my reps know of my displeasure.
Good luck!
It smells for a reason!
why dont they build a highway where there is actuality a good amount of traffic maybe extent 295 east to the mid coast. I dont get the point of building a highway where theres not that much traffic
It’s a Canadian highway.. from canada to canada
It’s gonna be marked ‘The LePage Trail’ on the Canadian map’s.
It is, what is commonly known as a “Short Cut.” For years, Canadians have wanted a “Short Cut” between the Atlantic Provinces and Quebec. This is their road. Their railway which also cuts across Maine – is strictly their’s, too.
Where was the BDN when it was time to discourage the intimidating behavior of the Occupy movement? Oh yeah – it was too busy devoting column inches to denigrating the peaceful, proper, and pollution-free protests of the Tea Party.
Thanks to your transparent partisanship and self-serving editorials, you have zero credibility. I had hoped the new editorial page editor would bring a positive change in the culture of the paper. I am once again disappointed in my hometown newspaper.
The East West highway is a boondoggle. Any sensible person can see this.
Maine used to be a land of common sense, conservative people. But today, after 30 years of liberal indoctrination at the hands of the Democrats, so many have apparently lost their way. The majority of Maine people were seemingly willing to borrow $100M on these bond packages, which would need to be paid back with interest, yet the number of people on this website who are willing to express outrage at what would be a $60K expenditure (the remaining $240K are coming from federal funds) to study this road’s feasibility, is truly alarming! C’mon folks–if you can’t see how much of a no-brainer this highway is, I am truly concerned for the future of our State!
Here come all the Americants, no no no, it’s all they ever say. Nothing would have been built in the US if these folks were around back in the day. The guy can’t even spell the word loser on his sign correctly.
Private enterprise? We simply can’t have that. We need
govt run things, union toll takers and taxpayers paying
for everything, at least those who pay taxes. If it’s something
that will bring commerce and jobs (private sector jobs) we simply
can’t have it. If LePage wanted to use taxpayer money to build it,
let the whining begin.
We have all been lied to before by beomuths looking to extend their agendas, their swarths of destruction, and their profits. Those who worshiped civility were steamrolled into standing by and watching the trees fall down and the noise rise up. One doesn’t need to be an engineer to comprehend the impending destruction planned for peoples’ land and lives awaiting this project before specifics are deliniated. Objections need to be immediate, loudly spoken, and un-ending. Calling for un-needed studies is travelling on the Devil’s path of deception and misprepresentation. Support those who want the madness of destroying the state to end NOW. Ken
Right on!
Why don’t those lazy bums go get a job that are holding the signs ?
Why do you assume that they don’t?
The same could be said about the OWS
They have a job!
The farm that the Highway is going thru!
How do you know they have farms ?? An if they do have you every heard of a under pass ?
and how do you know they are lazy bums? Oh yes, it takes one to know one. You would merrily follow the lemming over the cliff I am sure if he told you there were jobs on the “other side”…
People called the ows lazy bums so i guess i can do the same to these people . Im not a lazy bum in happly retired for 4 years
I am reading a lot Liberal Bashing in the comments, try this on, a different perspective. It fits with most of the Red, Right Wing, Fringe, Teapots assumptions.
Why Conservatives are Always wrong
http://www.badrepublicans.com/conservatives-always-wrong.html
by Jeff Smith,
Suppose you had a friend you had known for many
years, one who was very opinionated, who always seemed absolutely
certain about everything, and yet who was always turning out to be
wrong. He got you to buy stock in Enron and swore it would just keep
on rising. He bet on the Yankees to sweep the Red Sox in ’04. He said
mobile phones were just a fad, and before long people would give them
up and go back to sending telegrams.
Would you trust this person’s powers of analysis? Would you continue putting any faith in his predictions?
“Conservatives,” or those who call themselves this
nowadays, have an equally good and much longer record of faulty analysis
and wrong prediction. In order to exist as a viable movement, they
depend on everyone forgetting that they’re basically always wrong.
Unfortunately, progressives and liberals have obliged. They
seem to have forgotten who they’re actually dealing with. I’m not the
first to point out that conservatives are always wrong – on any longer
view, it’s hard to miss – but after years of observing the dispirited
moderate left and the hapless, helpless leadership of the Democratic
Party, I thought it was about time for a few reminders. If we step
back from the issues that preoccupy us at the moment, it’s easier both
to see that conservatism has consistently been failing and to examine
the deeper reasons why. There are flaws in conservative positions
that eventually cause them to collapse, and those same flaws are at
work today. It’s true that one side in America’s great political
debates is playing a very weak hand. Fortunately, that side isn’t
ours.
If they recognized this, if they remembered how reliably
the conservative cause has come to grief in the past, I think my fellow
progressives would be in much better spirits. I hope the analysis I’m
offering here will not only brighten their mood, but suggest some
specific arguments and approaches they might find useful once they
figure out that they’re already winning – and have been for a very
long time.
I do not expect any of the “Red Meat’ers” to read as it is in depth but some of my Liberal Comrades may enjoy the read.
Bravo, Increase the divide. Just what we need is more left/right nonsense. Party politics only exists at ground level. Seriously, they laugh about it together over drinks in the back rooms and offices. There is one party now a days, corperate fascists. They push their windmills through the left and their highways and strip mines through the right and then they laugh heartily at how they get everything they want while the simpletons battle it out. This country needs to grow the hell up. Politics is not professional sports.
A highway to hell….
BDN: I disagree with the picture you paint of hostile, shouting and uncivil protestors bullying Vigue, and I think your newspaper should stop pampering him and perpetuating inaccuracies. The headline of the editorial “highway to civility” hints that Vigue has been treated less than civil. People are upset because information is being withheld regarding this private project. Many, many Maine citizens are concerned that their land, livelihood, and all that they value about this place will be ruined by a private project that will wildly benefit a few. Much work has been conducted behind the scenes – this has not been a transparent process and the people have a right to know how their lives and hometowns will be affected. This bodyguard baloney is just a tactic to make people think that those who question the project are crazy lunatics, which is not the case. I have spent time (numerous hours) with dozens of folks who express concern for this project, and I have yet to witness one act of aggression. What does the BDN base its editorial on? And shame on you for continuing to perpetuating the lie that Vigue is being “bullied”. He is being QUESTIONED and he continuously skirts around answering the people who are genuinely worried. Now who is the bully???
Spin doctors..didn’t you know the press was for sale? Think we are the highest bidders? Propaganda works, has for generations.
Having just returned from a two week excursion in the great country of Germany and first hand having witnessed their massively impressive infrastructure, I don’t see why there is such opposition. It is no secret, for their to be business development there must be proper infrastructure in place to support it. So is it too much ask for a feasibility study so we can at least see if this is a good idea or not?
Furthermore, as this article clearly points out the opposition isn’t just to the idea itself, but the opposition is to the study to see if this is even a good idea. Why are people creating arguments about things we simply don’t know? Why are there so many assumptions and rumors spreading? There are still too many questions without answers.
If you want to help the State right now, take a seat, buy a Poland Spring (Or local equivalent) water and wait until we have some more answers.
Oh sure, when the 1%’ers talk to the people about projects that will first and foremost benefit them, they are all civility as they plan how to transfer more wealth for themselves. When the rabble protests… that’s uncivil… BS!
Just who was the LARGE police presence at last evening’s meeting in Dover-Foxcroft was PROTECTING?
What part of the past 3 or 4 years of the spectacle of UNMITIGATED GREED from the CORPORATOCRACY have you missed…? Apparently most of it… Still don’t get it, do you…?
Sd the moment unemployment in this country drops below 6.5 people with viewpoints like yours will go away. They didn’t exist widely before high unemployment and won’t exist after. I can see how you wouldn’t want any jobs in the area…
You don’t see anything.
I see more than you might think.
“The despair is there now it’s up to
us to go in and rub raw the sores of discontent, galvanize them for
radical social change. ~~~~~`Saul Alinsky
Employment is the balm that heals. Alinsky recognizes that and also recognized that happy people are the enemy.
There are NO garauntees that this will create more than a spattering of jobs… More trickle down promises from those that have been p’ssin on the common folk for the past 30-40 years. What it will do without a doubt is further widen the gap between those that have and those that don’t.
Employment is the balm… This offers NO garauntees of employment in Maine, besides a few temporary construction jobs. Furthering the cause of globalization is much more likely to have similar effects, mostly entirely negative, as NAFTA and other globalization initiatives.
Life offers no guarantees but you need to try to make the best of the opportunities as they present themselves. Otherwise it just looks like rage.
So by that logic we should just take any deal that comes down the pike?….Ok, how ’bout I give you a buck for your house a car? You can sleep under the stars and hoof it. Sound good? I promise it will be better for you in the long run.
You’re the one looking forward to being homeless. I’m doing fine but my neighbors aren’t.
I wouldn’t say I’m looking forward to it, my point was for illustration purposes. You have probably worked hard for what you have (speculation), and it’s easy to ask someone to give something up when it dosn’t affect you negatively is all I’m saying.
We have no idea what the plan is. We do know that $4 billion dollars thrown into the economy is a good thing. People say the jobs are temporary but construction jobs are always temporary. Whats happens later when permanent maintenance crews are employed. Look at how many people the DOT employs just on the turnpike portion of 95.
How many people from Canada will flood into the Bangor area to shop, stay in hotels and eat at local restaurants. All because Bangor is an hour or so closer.
As for negatively effecting things. Exactly how…? We don’t know and will know nothing until a study is completed. There are a lot of rumors flying about. Some may have some validity others are just plain stupid. We won’t know anything until the study is completed.
Correct, we don’t have a concrete plan in place, just proposals and previous study(s). I agree with your point as far as jobs, but given the private nature of the project which isn’t speculative, and that the current financial sponsors are all Canadian (with the exception of Plum Creek), also not speculative, how can we be assured any jobs will go to U.S. companies with the exception of Cianbro? I know up here we are all wanting and waiting for answers (we had hoped/been promised them on Thursday night and most feel they didn’t get them). Until such a time as we get them , we need to base our opinions on what has been said verbally and on paper in the past on this issue. I’ve been in the political game a long time, and was actually hoping to be retired from it, this latest thing hits a little too close to home not be be drawn into the fray once again. My concern is that I have followed plans similar to this in many other areas, and the script seems to be playing out the same way. There is the potential to do much good with a project like this if done properly I agree, there is also great potential to do irreversable harm not only locally, but on a state level, and nationally as well. NAFTA has done this country harm beyond measure, and this project is without question an extension of those policies. Until Mr. Vigue comes out with something concrete to the contrary, I will assume his ideas are still based on these two proposal/studies which have been put forward , neither of which ,in my view, are good for the state of Maine or the United States of America. Sure there are some small benefits there but as far as I’m concerned it’s just lipstick on a pig.
http://www.emdc.org/document_upload/CIANBRO%20Presentation.pdf
http://canamconnections.com/bm~doc/Final-Report.pdf
No. You’re wrong. It is happening. Unless people speak out, it will be a reality.
Vigue, backed by this autocratic and bullying Le Page will get his way. Le Page and his tea party followers will make it happen.
The armed guard hysteria only gives Le Page extra clout to enforce his own eminent domain criteria through a law enacted in Michigan by tea party governor Snyder.
Mr. Buchanan (see related article) has hit-the-nail-on-the-head. I currently agree that an East-West connection would be beneficial on many accounts but the planning and execution of such a system should be based not in a public-private, closed-door partnership but on a transparent process put to public vote. You know, democratically. If, as some claim, rail fees are affordable only for big business and trucking more affordable for small, why not develop a proposal for a typical rural state highway with adjacent rail service for all of those vast connections to the rest of the United States? In fact, when you consider the larger scheme of things, rail makes more sense. Done well, it can handle commercial hauling and human transport, it will make commodities incoming and outgoing more affordable, it is better for the environment (by far) than long-haul trucking, it creates demand for local trucking, is far easier to police at border crossings, and is less dependent on the ever-increasing costs of fossil-fuel. This last item means that vegetables shipped from other places in the dead of winter will cost less. It means that commercial prices over time, will remain more stable and it means that tourism and travel-in-general will create less vehicle congestion. Rail nodes, coordinated with existing travel hubs will help increase the vitality and commercial activity of places that already exist (such as Eastport or Calais) through increased development of hospitality business, demand for secondary travel and basic tourism activities, and rather than encourage road-side sprawl such as gas station chains, fast food chains, and truck stops, the stable, long-term connectivity of a multi-function rail system could stimulate local housing markets. If someone from Chicago or Quebec or even New Hampshire knows that rail can be depended on for transportation, they will be far more likely to invest in seasonal property, or to relocate a business here. In Maine commuting is basically unheard of, but in other places it is commonplace. A reliable rail connection from New Hampshire to Boston allows many working people and students to enjoy a better way of life and it makes for a stronger tax base at the same time. We need to watch very carefully, what happens in Brunswick over the next couple of years, as this will tell Northern Maine what it needs to know, one way or the other.
The plan is and has been out there, as well as the sponsors, for a while now. Anyone care to do some reading? The “study” is a waste, it’s been done. More of a p.r./disinformation campaign if you ask me. As one person put it “they couldn’t study the feasability of two rats in a cage for 300k”
http://canamconnections.com/bm~doc/Final-Report.pdf
http://www.emdc.org/document_upload/CIANBRO%20Presentation.pdf
For you Eastport deepwater terminal folks, here’s an interesting tidbit:
http://www.porttechnology.org/news/sydney_harbour_looks_to_attract_larger_vessels_with_the_completion_of_38_mi
http://www.supplypost.com/Construction-Equipment-News-Article.aspx?ID=124
Interesting to note that the Canadian Maritimes have about 4-5 deepwater ports in service already. Sydney will open them up to post- panamax class vessels putting them at odds with Norfolk, Va and any real potential for an Eastport terminal. Also interesting to note is the fact that Irving who is listed as a sponsor on page 18 of Cianbro’s proposal has just been awarded several navy contracts in it’s 6 shipyards in the maritimes. Shortest distance from the raw materials to the drydocks is right through the heart of Maine Read the proposals then connect the dots, we used to do it in preschool, why not now?
I would suggest, and it’s just that, a suggestion, that we think long and hard about the wide rippling effect this plan is going to cause not only here but for others around the country. The biggest hurdle those Canadian ports face right now to being highly viable is a better distribution route, enter the state of Maine. Wise idea to undermine our competitive edge or are we all globalists now-a-days? There are infinite angles to look at this thing from, but at the end of the day I only see a few really benefitting,. The only Mainers, or Americans for that matter, I can see benefiting in the LONG RUN and after the dust clears, are politicians or Vigues.
Someone brought an excellent point to me today. Look at Newport, lots of business, it’s booming really. All franchaise, nearly 0 independant businesses. What have we done there except create a financial strip mine on an offramp? All minimum wage jobs, big dollars go to the corperate offices, away. How is that economic stimulation? That’s the type of thing the highway will bring to Milo, Dover, etc, ect , and beyond. Do we need it?
Business intelligence. Isin’t it a thing of beauty when it comes together and string’s the schmuck’s up by their Buster Brown’s ? You go Sir and DO NOT QUIT !
Thanks Mike, You also.
Another thing that really concerns me (and I’m not a boogieman under the bed type guy) is Vigue/can-am study’s idea of a transparent border. It’s well known to the MDEA that canadians are already using our roads as a smuggling route for illegal drugs between Onterio/Quebec and the Maritimes. In point of fact one of our part-time officers in town found 6LBS of coke on the side of rt 15 last year (not in a traffic stop, just sitting on the shoulder at the roadside). I would think a superhighway devoid of customs checks would be highly likely to increase volume of street drugs into our rural areas here. I’ve travelled the country extensively and seen my fair share of this over the years and there is no stopping it. However, is it wise to set up conditions that encourage it? I would also think the anti-terrorism/muslim boogieman crowd would be all over this, although border security issues may have become passe’ these days, hard knowing living up here in the 18th century and all.
dvr, you just made the case for the use of the drone’s that are being discussed. Privacy, ‘Federal Intervention’ and ‘black helicopter’ boogeymen argurements aside, this road is gonna be a huge opportuity for the smuggler’s to run their stuff thru Canadian Port’s and then dump it off the Highway somewhere (any of you folk’s from CBP wanna chime in about this tactic, please feel free to do so any time !) for later pick-up. And once their ‘stuff’ gets past Canadian Custom’s it’s free to be taken, untouched, all the way to the Midwest. While this is primarily a DHS and MDEA issue it does show how this road is gonna create more problem’s that Maine is gonna be forced to deal with simply because someone’s greed is overpowering their common sense and principle’s.
And since this has come up you also bring up an issue that has not been addressed to this point as well, namely the public safety issue. Given that the Highway Act direct’s that all authority on this road is now the responsibility of Cianbro, who’s gonna be the one’s to enforce the road and safety provision’s that are gonna have to be enforced for safe travel and use ? Maine can’t since Maine gave that away in the Act’s provision’s. The same is true for the other Emergency Service’s. So who’s gonna provide them ? 220 miles, at straight line distance, is a lot of ground to cover when that type of Service is needed. Given that Maine’s public safety agency’s, from State, County, Town / City to Municipality are all gonna be forced to cope with this, how are they gonna do it when they are legally prevented from doing so ? And I’m not even going to go near the public safety funding issue here. That’s a whole ‘nuther matter entirely (and one that the current Public Safety Secretary might want to start thinking about now instead of it ‘bushwhacking’ him) and one that has not been adequately discussed.
And if Cianbro was smart (and if they are bothering to listen) they’ed right now start getting this issue addressed, and do it publicly. The longer and more frequently these simple question’s keep being asked, and either ignored or ‘blown off’, the more and worse this whole mess get’s. Sooner or later, and you can bet that someone on Cianbro’s Board of Director’s has heard it before, ‘The Wheel’ is gonna come around.
Excellent points Mike, you’re right , which is seemingly the norm in your posts from what I can see. As I’m sure you know, drones have already been approved for use on U.S. soil in point of fact . Believe me the last thing I wanted to do was make a case for more of that. However, being a proactive guy rather than reactive (to steal peter’s vigue’s phrase), I suggest (as you do also) rather than creating problems and reacting to them, we should see the pitfalls before we act and save ourself some much needed coin. All of us want prosperity for ourselves and our neighbors, however a quote from our old friend Ben Franklin comes to mind (paraphrased)”Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary security will lose both and deserve neither” Perhaps this exact situation falls somewhat outside the intent behind the statement, however I think it is worth considering in this current context.
From what we know of the proposed road, I oppose it; but I think we’re debating “facts” that don’t exist. Mr. Vigue has flatly stated that the right-of-way for the road west of the Penobscot would be only 500 feet wide, that there will be no pipelines or electric transmission line in the corridor and that no land will be taken for the road by the use of eminent domain. Until we have solid info to the contrary, I believe we have to take him at his word. If, in the future, any of the statements turn out to be false, there should be a price to pay.
The question still remains: If no land will be taken by eminent domain, how will it be acquired?
Also, who is going to do this feasibility study? What efforts will be made to ensure that the study is unbiased and the results aren’t slanted to suit one side of the debate or the other?
With all due respect, all you need to do is read the proposals below in order to see that the facts and intent are out there already. Gov. Perry of Texas backpeddled in a VERY similar way on the TTC project before being shot down in the end, which will hopefully happen in this case also. You act as though you have never been lied to. I’m all for taking people at their word, but with so many contradictions already, red flags should be flying.
At the meeting Vigue was asked about the utility easements and he said “currently that is not the intent” well since he didn’t give his word outright that it WOULDN’T happen EVER, and in light of his touting the idea in his older presentation and in eary interviews, I would say that leaves the door wide open to do as they please once they secure the rights to the corridor. Remember, this isn’t his plan, it’s part of a larger nationwide intent on the part of the “powers that be”. This idea has been floated many times in more than one state. My guess is that Mr. Vigue is being used as a spokesman in order to insulate public officials from scrutiny and political blowback in this case.
It’s all well and good to say let’s hang Vigue if he lies to us, however, once the cows are out of the barn so-to-speak, it will accomplish nothing.
Believe me, I’ve been lied to. Lots of cliches come to mind: “Trust, but verify”, “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me” etc. I agree that “the door is wide open” and that there are plenty of “red flags”, but I’d like to have more facts and fewer assumptions. And I agree that there’s a big difference between saying that you’re “not going to do something” and you “don’t intend to do something”, if that’s what Vigue said.
I’m glad that some people are “doing their homework” and are going to “hold (Mr. Vigue’s ) feet to the fire” on this. Everybody is entitled to their opinions and they’re useful because they show the level of support or opposition to the proposal, but I hope we’ll hear more from people who actually have facts. At some point we have to talk about what we, those people who oppose the road with our limited facts, can do to stop this thing, other than burning up lots of “Comment” space. What legal recourse would we have to stop the road from being built, if the “study” says it’s feasible and if Vigue/Cianbro can raise the money to build it?
Well said, I agree 100%. My fear is based on precedent that has been set on a state and national level, we would have very little recourse Right now the battle needs to be waged in the court of public opinion, it’s hard to do that when the architects of the plan are hiding behind backpeddling, accusations of personal threats and Orwellian double-speak. My reasoning, however good or flawed, is based on what Mr. Vigue has said he wants, his overall vision which he has been very clear on in several ways in the not so distant past. My guess is he will push it as far in that direction as he figures he can get away with. At the end of the day though it’s still just a semi- educated guess really, you are quite correct. I think the tactic right now on their part is to be vague and let the opposition bury themselves with the “speculation” that their indirect approach is facilitating. They are banking on people not doing their homework and the left/right north/south division that has been here forever it seems. That’s my opinion, but it’s a tried and true tactic. My aim is to get the FACTS we do have out there because at very least people should be raising a suspicious eyebrow on this one. I will say the majority of locals I have talked to up here are VERY concerned and unhappy with things as they appear. If and when we do get an east west highway up here, they want it to benefit Maine first, not Canadian corperations.