PORTLAND, Maine — Supporters of same-sex marriage exceeded the $100,000 they needed to raise to receive a matching contribution from a co-founder of Facebook.
The Mainers United for Marriage campaign raised $121,197 as of Friday but topped $100,000 on Thursday, the deadline for raising the matching funds, David Farmer, spokesman for the campaign, said Monday.
Chris Hughes, editor-in-chief of the liberal magazine The New Republic, who owns 1 percent of Facebook, and his fiance, Sean Eldridge, president of Hudson River Ventures and senior adviser to the national organization Freedom to Marry, in May promised the campaign $100,000 if it raised matching funds in a month.
Mainers will vote Nov. 6 on whether to allow marriage licenses to be issued to same-sex couples. The referendum question in February was placed on the ballot after the secretary of state’s office validated the nearly 60,000 signatures on petitions submitted by supporters the previous month.
Farmer said Monday that more than 1,000 people contributed to the matching fund, with 470 of them donating for the first time. The average contribution was $115, he said.
“We’re happy with the results,” Farmer, who writes a column for the Bangor Daily News, said in a telephone interview. “It exceeded our expectations.”
Information about who contributed how much to the matching grant will be available in the next campaign finance report due to be filed on July 24 with the Maine Commission on Governmental Ethics and Election Practices.
Protect Marriage Maine, which opposes same-sex marriage, will kick off its fundraising efforts on Father’s Day with special collections in nearly 200 churches around the state, according to Carroll Conley, executive director of the Christian Civic League of Maine.
As of June 1, Mainers United for Marriage had raised about $359,000 compared with the nearly $10,000 raised by Protect Marriage Maine, according to a previously published report. Supporters of same-sex marriage claimed contributions from about 2,800 individual donors compared with nearly two dozen listed by opponents.
Wooo hooo. Thanks to everyone who participated. I was humbled by the generosity of my friends during the matching campaign. Thank you all so much for helping me support a cause that is so close to my heart.
Woo hoo, indeed . . .
This is Awesome news and shows the wide support equality has. It also is sad that a group would raise funds on Father’s Day to try and deny families equal rights. ALL Fathers are celebrated on Father’s Day and ALL children celebrate their fathers. I hope that when that plate is passed people think about what that day should be about…..Love, Honoring, Respect and Family, All Families.
You are correct when you state that ” ALL Fathers are celebrated on Father’s Day and ALL children celebrate their fathers”. Now….. think about what makes the great creation of father/child? Hmmmmm. HUSBAND AND WIFE! Wife has baby! The way that God intended it.
Because we all know a gay man cannot father a child.
Edit: I am being sarcastic people. I know a gay man can father a child but it seems someone such as Boogie_Bangor doesn’t understand that fact.
Insert tab “A” into slot “B”. Very simple equation.
I was being sarcastic.
Doesn’t happen that way 100% of the time.
Or use what comes out of tab “A” and mix it with an egg in test tube “B”. Insert into surrogate, and bake at 98.6 degrees for 9 months. Or you know, go down to the orphanage, do some paper work, and adopt a child its hetero parents didn’t want.
Why are you threatened by gay marriage? Because they cannot procreate? Does that make my straight marriage to my Husband any less valid by the fact that we don’t want children? What does it matter to you who people love? Isn’t loving better than hating? Because of your god? America was built to be a refuge for those persecuted by religion and now the religious persecute everyone who is not like them here. If only closed minds came with closed mouths!
Hi Lula, I can procreate just fine, thank you…but like you I had the choice to have children or not and chose not to have children. Have a great day!
Actually your completely wrong…. America was NOT built as a refuge from those persecuted by religion. We can go back to 1697 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:An_Act_against_Atheism_and_Blasphemy_-_Mass_Bay_Colony_1697.jpg And before you say we fought to not have that, please note the following blasphemy laws of 1879 http://www.msa.md.gov/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/000001/000388/html/am388–824.html Obviously, America was built with religions grounds. George Washington was a Freemason who when swearing his oath of office said ” So Help me God” Seems pretty religious focused to me *shrugs* doesn’t seem like America was “seeking” to be some refuge from religion.
Can you cut and paste your source for George Washington’s “so help me god” proclamation for his swearing in?
thats God – not god
It’s that’s, not thats, and since I don’t believe in your god, I don’t feel the need to capitalize it. I believe everyone has their own god if they want that sort of thing.
Why don’t you believe in God? Not being argumentative, honestly asking…. Have you ever? Were you raised in a home that did/did not?
LOTS of people don’t believe in “God” regardless of their upbringing. Also, why would a man choose to believe in a god when that particular god’s followers are denying him the right to marry the man he loves and live in peace?
I am not trying to stand on a soap box, and I know that there are a lot of people that do not believe in God… If you really believe what you believe is really real and true, then what Jesus said is (for a lot of people) completely out of bounds, completely unbelievable.
If I believed in anything other than God or in Jesus, I would be really ticked at His people that try to stand up for their beliefs because it would go directly against what I saw/thought was “right”. It probably is not something I could or would want to try to understand… How sure are you about what you believe? What evidence and backing do you have in what you believe?
Despite what you may think, I am not trying to put anyone on the defensive… I am trying to open up lines of communication and move beyond that “typical” answers and the insults that are hurled from both sides of the issue. Throwing insults and and digging in our heels on a comments board is not going to solve any world problems, but maybe if we can get beyond that and have an honest discussion, then MAYBE just MAYBE some headway will be made….
Sara: yes, I went to Sunday school for years, attended religious schools, and have a very well-regarded religious roots in this country.
I had a great grandfather who was an Episcopal Bishop in the 19th century as well as having a cousin who became the minister of his small community in New Hampshire so that he could avoid paying taxes on his property. True story and one he talked about openly. His background as a well regarded anthropologist specializing in native peoples made for some wicked sermons.There have been wars over religion, crusades for religion, burnings and death for religion throughout the eons. The bible has been translated so many times and into so many languages that it’s original meaning has been so lost. I don’t see religion as doing anything but letting people air their discontent over others through their god and what their god says (or more accurately, never said at all).I consider myself a spiritual person, but that spirituality is not tied to any one god. I like to think there are good things about every religion and every god and I feel that merging those good things is the right thing to do for me, personally. thanks for asking
Going to Sunday School, attending religious schools, having religious roots – all these things have nothing to do with your belief in God — A personal relationship with Jesus Christ – asking him to forgive your sins. Repenting and turning from evil – these things are whats important to your foundational belief in God.
Its a heart change not a bunch of peoples ideas that have to do with a belief in God.
AMEN!!!! AMEN!!!!!
No, since Washington did not say “so help me god” then there is no mention of a particular god, therefore it is not a proper name. In your arrogance you assumed it referenced your God, but like Christianity as a whole, that was wrong.
There is a bust of Washington in Houlton that states “Freemason and First President”I’ve always been curious why it was written that way.
Very wise words. Thank you.
Aren’t there tons of kids born in this state out of wedlock every day? God kind of goofed on that one, I guess. Since HUSBANDS and WIVES are the only ones that can reproduce and all… -.-
I had a baby and I wasn’t a wife. The dead beat father wanted nothing to do with us.
Heterosexual couples use medicine/science to create offspring. Those same methods allow same-gender couples to create offspring.
Exactly. So many people grow up in “non-traditional” family situations now. What matters is that a child receives the love and care that a family unit is supposed to provide. Why are so many people okay with the idea of a child growing up with two loving parents – UNLESS they happen to be a homosexual couple. It’s sad how bigoted people are.
women have children…not all of them are wives. In fact, in a recent study it was found that 40% of children are born out of wedlock. Remember too that when a gay couple has a child, that child is always wanted. Orphanages are filled with the unwanted children of straight people.
so why don’t people adopt these children – instead of creating new ones?
A lot of same sex couples would love to adopt these children and give them loving and stable homes, but they are denied this right in many states in our country, simply because of who they love.
Why not ask Catholic Charities, Inc.? They handle adoptions for many municipalities. That is, until in DC they got their clock cleaned for refusing to comply with local laws. They lost that part of their $22M annual “fee” for providing these “charitable” services. The DC Council farmed out adoption services to a more enlightened corporation.
TRUE!Look up a book called “The Girls Who Went Away”about the CC and adoption scandals/baby stealing for profit that went on for decades.I think the author is Ann Fessler.ISBN 1594200947.
I had the wrong title earlier.Correction made.My apologies.
Is this from the latest scandal in Spain where mothers where told their babies had died in child birth but in reality the babies were sold into adoption? Turns out Generalissimo Francisco Franco [still dead from what I hear] did not want the risk of people on the dole so he eliminated what he thought were situations that might increase that likelihood.
The medical staff was in on this crime as was the Catholic church.
The Catholic Church made out by charging for the adoptions, adopting the children out to “good Catholic families,” and thus more kids would be raised Catholic.
It was a win-win-win for Franco (no societal deadbeats), the medical staff ($$$), and the Catholic Church ($$$, meat in the seats, and self-righteousness).
Of course, this occurred against women who were pregnant teenagers, unwed, and from poor families, and/or of “questionable repute.”
The losers were the mothers who now have banded together to learn the truth. They were given false death certificates, graves where no bones have been found, and an official lie.
So far, one nun has been arrested. This went on for decades, apparently. Right now, there are 2,000 cases in court with an estimated 10,000+ cases in reality.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/06/06/Appeal-in-stolen-baby-case-rejected/UPI-60691338990312/
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/04/26/2000-stolen-baby-cases-filed-in-Spain/UPI-43351335469058/?rel=60691338990312
The unmitigated gall of all this.
It is that,Canada,the US,Ireland-amazing how the corrupt media squashed these thousands of stories.
No child or woman has ever been safe near the clutches of those red eyed pedos.
Actually, I think I first heard of this on CBS or NBC evening news programs. Of course, the media takes heat from the churches whenever they report negative news, as if that is somehow not in the news bureaus’ charters! “Yeah, we’re bad, but YOU shouldn’t be showing that on TV!”
As bad as all the actual acts are, the presumption of correctness they hold along with the total lack of empathy towards the victims, is perhaps what troubles me the most. For a group that yammers on endlessly about contrition, it seems that it applies only to the laity.
How could an organization of this size not know behavior of this sort was going on? Then, let’s assume they did know, no one finds this behavior unacceptable? It boggles the imagination as to how they presume this behavior to be correct.
You know when you are a kid and you see something that just seems preposterous yet everyone else is carrying the banner for them and cheering them on? Sort of along the lines of the “Emperor’s Clothes” and all that? That would have been me at 8 years of age and the church was the clothes in question. I used to go to a protestant church for the organ music (big fan) but the rest of it made no logical sense to me, and has not to me yet, some 50 years later.
That said, I have had no problem with people believing whatever they wish. That’s up to them. Just leave me out of it. But, the crimes against women and children, plus their meddling in secular law, is unacceptable.
sometimes it’s not financially feasible to adopt a child. It takes capital, and if you live in an old home, you may not have the capital to adopt and then modify the house to meet to present codes. One example is having your red emergency furnance on/off switch in an area located in an accessible area. Most older homes have the switch just as you go in your basement, according to code, that is (supposedly) no longer allowed on newer homes. And staples every 2 inches in a bend for wiring, etc etc.
Procreation is not required for marriage.
It seems to me the GBLT community has figured out how to create children.
You’re channeling God’s intentions? Wow, what talent!
BTW, Hallmark essentially created Father’s Day.
So you live in a reality where there are no unwed mothers?
We call that delusion. Besides, there’s nothing about homosexuality that makes one sterile or infertile… there are same-sex couples raising children all over Maine, and they truly need the important protections civil marriage conveys.
If the churches cared about people rather than ideology the plate would be passed on Father’s Day to help military families and kids who have lost their parents in war.As one who contributes to the USO monthly,I’d be happy to add to that collection-not the Hate Plate.
ALL fathers are celebrated on Father’s Day and ALL children celebrate their fathers — are you sure about that?
ALL of you, think before you post – geez.
Not unusual it seems for liberals to pay for a vote.
And how is anyone paying for a same-sex marriage vote? So please explain to me why your comment is not 100% ignorant and false.
Well, I can always use the reasoning the liberals use, to brainwash.
Brainwashing… lol, no this is a political issue, not Sunday School
You can not get brainwashed in politics. I see my point is taken.
Not unusual it seems for fundies to pass around the collection plate to fund a bigoted political campaign while appreciating tax exemption.
because one disagrees, does not make them a bigot.
Not in this case.
You must have a different defination than the dictionary then.
Technically, you are correct. Bigotry is defined as:
“…stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.”
Just as those of us who speak out against the KKK, the John Birch Society, and White Supremacists are bigots.
I will stick with the synonyms: narrow-mindedness, bias, discrimination.
The difference is this – I really do not care what you do in your church or in your life. That is up to you. On the other hand, you do not have the right to interfere in my life or in our secular laws with your sectarian edicts that impede my rights as a citizen. This is especially true when there is no harm or interference in your life or ability to practice your beliefs, whatsoever.
I am for freedom for all.
You are for enforcing your restrictive rules upon me.
That, in a nutshell, is the difference.
In this case it kind of does. The collection the churches took was solely to deny equality to people because they are different, so yea that is kind of the definition of bigotry
so are you a bigot if you don’t support or believe in polygamy?
Because they oppose your point of view, that kind of sounds like bigotry
Wow, wrong again, see if i were a bigot, then I would be working to end Christianity. Thing is, I don’t because your religion is your right. Your right to religion does nor trump other peoples rights however. I, not being a bigot, would not try to stop you from being religious. You on the other hand are trying to prevent other people from attaining rights, thus making you a bigot. I would never end religion, just as i would not deny someone from marrying the person they love. I like having Christians around because whenever I see a church I will always know there are weak minded fools around to practice Jedi mind tricks on.
This is from a person that speaks tolerance! yea right
And Tony Perkins doesn’t buy votes?Please.Try to tell the truth just once no matter how difficult that is for you.You’ll break into a million little pieces just like James Frey.
Does not matter how much money is raised, its the voters who will decide this again. Like i said before i will vote for this to go through. But i doubt it very highly its going too. People i talk to just will not change there minds for anything
Ah yes the VERY predictable animal reference. Is that the best you have?
Edit: And it was taken care of.
AMEN
Wonderful news! Great job Mainers United For Marriage!
So you are cool with incest then? Because a lot of it would have had to take place if it all started with just this so called Adam and Eve.
BTW, why did your God create gay people to begin with?
Testing free will?
Yes, all your best friends will test you.
Yeeessh I hope you didn’t mean that like it sounded.
Marriage is a co operation that the government use to borrow
money with . The stock in these “companies” is children who will eventually
will pay tax
“Gay” people were not created – male and female were – please reread your bible Kevin – you know better
How do you know so much about gay people? Did your god speak to you and tell you that he never created gay people? I see you are implying that being gay is a choice. How do you know this beyond a shadow of a doubt?
I know that being gay is not a choice because of first hand information….pretty irrefutable.
I’ll be honest – the jury is still out for me in regards to whether people are “born gay”. I have been grappling with this issue as I know people personally who have “switched sides” per se as of recently. In some of the “research ” I have found, I came across this, and thought I would throw it into the discussion as just some food for thought:
If homosexual orientation were completely genetic, one would expect that it would not change over the course of one’s life. For females, sexual preference does seem to change over time. A recent example of an orientation change occurred with The Advocate’s “Person of the Year” for 2005. Kerry Pacer was the youngest gay advocate, chosen for her initiation of a “gay-straight alliance” at White County High School in Cleveland, Georgia. However, four years later, she is raising her one year old daughter, along with the baby’s father. Another former lesbian, British comedienne Jackie Clune, spent 12 years in lesbian relationships before marrying a man and producing 4 children. Michael Glatze came out at age 20 and went on to be a leader in the homosexual rights movement. At age 30, he came out in the opposite direction, saying, “In my experience, “coming out” from under the influence of the homosexual mindset was the most liberating, beautiful and astonishing thing I’ve ever experienced in my entire life.” A 2011 study of Christian gays who wanted to change their sexual orientation found that 23% of the subjects reported a successful “conversion” to heterosexual orientation and functioning, while an additional 30% reported stable behavioral chastity with substantive dis-identification with homosexual orientation. However, 20% of the subjects reported giving up on the process and fully embraced a gay identity, while another 27% fell in between the two extremes. Obviously, for at least some individuals, being gay or straight is something they can choose.
Probably because they confuse the issue so much in school now, that they say a 2 year old is transgendered. In that theory then, they should believe an fetus is a child.
but I speak CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH.” (Eph.5:20-32)
This is the marriage arrangement God has decreed for man. It’s of
“Divine Design.” A “selfless” relationship, where the man and the woman
struggle, grow and develop “together” in spirit [as Christ and His
Church] work as one… to rear their children [and the Children of God]
in the wisdom and knowledge and the Commandments of the Lord.
Don’t pop the champagne and do the boogie woogie just yet. This is one State that money cannot buy the outcome that you want. Maine will not be the first State in history to vote yes at the ballot box for same sex marriage. So, take a deep breath and enjoy your civil partnership.
Until the US Supreme Court rules that marriage equality is the law of the land and Maine, along with the Federal Government and every other state, will have no choice but to recognize it. It was the same way with interracial marriage. We’re only a few years away now, at most.
True, and the only way it will happen is to have it shoved down our throats by the supreme court. But if it happens, I don’t think the people will stand for it. It could get messy.
Why would it get messy?
What is shoved down your throat exactly? My partner and I are already here, living happily and quietly on the coast. If we got a marriage license and tied the knot…how would you even know, and why would you care, and what would change? We would get all the rights and protections afforded married couples and you would continue on in your life none the wiser…
Yeah mean like it got “messy” after Loving v. Virginia?
Nope. That was a completely different issue. There is nothing to compare between interracial marriage and same sex marriage. Two different worlds.
James I am comparing a decision that went against the law of the day in many, many states. Blacks (or Negryouth use the word of the time) were second class citizens. In many areas they drank at different water fountains, ate at different lunch counters, used different bathrooms, trains would stop in some areas and blacks were herded from seats in the front to seats in the back of the train, Florida was the “lynching” capital of America and here comes the SCOTUS and they say “blacks and whites can marry” and all laws preventing “race mixing” were voided.
Loving v. Virginia WAS one of the most controversial decisions of its day. I don’t remember (yes I was just a young lad then) nor have I read any accounts of people taking to the streets and making things “messy”.
So why do YOU keep making mention that things might or will get messy if the SCOTUS makes a similar ruling allow homosexuals to marry?
Keep telling yourself that. Whatever it takes for you to justify discrimination against your fellow man, eh?
Discrimination, equal rights, hate, there all gay buzz words to try and inject themselves in real issues to get sympathy and votes from the unknowing. Civil unions should be as far as it goes for gay couples. Marriage is out of the question.
Why? Is the idea that our relationships are just as fulfilling and committed as yours somehow threatening to you?
Yea, like they shoved giving women the vote down our throat, like they desegregated the south down our throat, and like letting different races marry down are throat… Or you know, they could just be upholding the Constitution…
Actually, we granted women the right to vote via Constitutional Amendment, not Supreme Court ruling. But other than that you’re correct :)
Why do you, a supposedly straight man, find yourself so obsessed with having things shoved down your throat? Like Seth, and many others, have so eloquently put it, What difference does it make to you? Can you offer one reason, based in logic and facts, not superstition and faith, that a gay marriage would effect you in anyway?
This reminds me of the south in the sixtys people used the bible, twisted it to say what they wanted it to.If the supreme court had not as you state shoved equal rights down our throats can you imagine how long equal right would have taken. The bible says alot of things that were thought to be true 2 centuries ago.According to the bible if you wife can not produce a child it is okay for you to take another wife at the same time, you dont even have to marry her just get her preggers then take the baby and give it to your wife. Bet I can go back and find some white guy from the south making the same statement in the sixtys just replace gay with a word I dont use but they sure did.
Nobody is trying to buy a vote. Please explain to me how a fund raiser is going to purchase a vote?
Fund raising for political purposes needs no explanation.
Way to not answer the question.
So churches having a special offering is not a fund raiser? Is not “buying votes”? Somehow I suspect you’ll be dropping a few dollars into that offering plate when it comes around…
Yet another reason to tax churches.What a crystal clear violation of law this hate plate money grab is.
I believe the correct term for the second passing of the plate this Sunday is “Passing the Hate Plate”
James, you should know that civil partnerships are not available in Maine.
I didn’t know that. I would support civil partnerships, but not marriage. Civil unions should be set up to allow gay couples the same rights as married heterosexual couples. I can see why equal rights is an issue, so why not civil unions?
so separate but equal is ok with you…didn’t work in with regards to the rights of black people in the 50s and 60s, but you think that will work now. Marriage has been redefined over and over again throughout the centuries and should be expanded now to cover all loving and committed couples.
Do you know that it is legal in North Carolina to marry one’s first cousin, but illegal to marry a same sex partner?
So James, I have been living with my husband of 13 years in our current house for the last 11, together, as a family. Tell me, what will change for you if we were allowed to marry. Some Tuesday, we would go to our town office and get a marriage license, have our friend marry us, and be back home the same day in time to make our Tuesday meatloaf or whatever. What changes for you if that happens?
As long as it isn’t your same sex cousin, that would be morally wrong, LOL. Hard to believe that people are still so stupid.
Hmmm Vermont started with Civil Unions and moved to SSM. Why?
Personally, I think it’s wrong to take a “separate but equal” approach to anything regarding a persons’ civil rights in this country. I honestly don’t see what’s so threatening about letting a man marry a man or a woman marry a woman. Knowing that some guy down the street happens to have a husband will have no actual affect on my relationship with my significant other.
You do realize that the marriage license is a non-religious government issued legal document?
A civil union license would be identical in every way but for the use of the term “marriage”. No other difference at all.
So, why the senseless hangup on a single word?
Help me understand that please. Thanks.
Because of the implications that LGBT people are in someway inferior.
James can’t even offer any reasonable rationale for his position.
Did you ever wonder who were the parents of Adam and Eve’s grandchildren?
No to Plowman, Richardson and Cushing. Vote for new people who don’t owe political favors, are honest and will look after the citizens interest. Oh yes, No on Angus King too. How soon people tend to forget what he did to Maine.
Plowman is not getting in.
I’m sure there are plenty of couples made up of guys named Adam and Steve. And if you believe that there is a god who made everyone, then he made those Adams and Steves gay.
You can repeat that Adam and Eve/Adam and Steve routine until your fingers are numb, but it doesn’t change that fact that we gay people exist. Perhaps it’s time to take your head out of the sand and join the real world.
Religion can be used to mask bigotry for just so long. Eventually, the facts win the day.
I’m sure his next response will be. Love the sinner, not the sin. Which is a phrase that is not found anywhere in the bible but Christians love to state it.
He would do well to look up Einstein’s religious views, if he’s going to continue associating himself with that name.
I used the word “his” in my responce on purpose. Albert Einstein didn’t believe in a personal god.
Kevin,your ignorance of Scripture is obvious to those who have studied it.There are many obvious concepts and contrasts in the Bible.It must be studied in context and not bits and pieces taken out. Jesus stated the obvious of one man and one woman in marriage.The curse in Genesis allowed SIN to evolve and caused man to choose anti-God behavior.Just say you don’t believe it rather than trying twist it to your liking.
I’m wondering if you can give me chapter and verse where “Jesus stated the obvious of one man and one woman in marriage.”
Give them time…they will posts their bits and pieces that they have taken out.
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-f018.html
go here and discover the truth of he matter
It is a sin to use a church to collect money to fight against families within our society. YOU are the one who picks and chooses in order to promote hate. Hating is ALWAYS a sin!
double check what you are saying and please stop speaking in ignorance.
Working against your fellow human being, to make their lives more difficult and less secure than other human beings is a sin. Trying to tear down families is a sin. Trying to create/maintain insecurity in the lives of hundreds of thousands of children whose parents happen to be homosexual is a sin.
When we love we want the best for those we love. We will go to the ends of the earth to make sure that they are taken care of and that their needs are met and that the feel secure and needed. When we work against others maliciously, say untrue things about them, work to create fear and instability in other families, when we fixate on the most intimidate parts of their lives, we are not acting in a loving manner. These actions are hateful. They are not loving.
People who use Christianity as a reason to discriminate against same gender relationships our picking and choosing. You cannot take one passage literally and ignore other passages on the page or in the chapter. When they twist the scriptures to validate their mistreatment of others then they are picking and choosing.
One religion must not dominate this country. This is a land of people from many belief systems and one should not be forced to live by another human being’s belief system. That is the freedom that so many lives have been lost for. They didn’t fight and die so that just Christians could have the freedom to live by their beliefs, they died so that ALL Americans have the right and freedom to live their life based on their own personal belief system.
Again – just because you say a bunch of words, all without proof nor fact does not make what you say correct. Please dont waste peoples time with your ignorant statements.
It seems that you are the one making ignorant statements. You have nothing coherent to say so you zing out insults.
If I am the ignorant one, then why are you bothering to respond?
Jesus also practiced tolerance… it was kinda his thing.
First things first though… I am still looking for proof that Jesus actually existed. No the Bible is not proof of that, the Bible is the argument. History books seem to have overlooked his existence. For such an influential guy, he didn’t make much of a mark on world history.
As for gay marriage, if you stated that you were simply disgusted by the thought of 2 men or 2 women having relations, I would have to debate that. BUT.. when you use the Bible as the reason for denying civil rights to people.. well.. I am glad you are reading a book. In today’s times, I am glad anyone is reading. But you can’t read a book and then want what you read in the book to come true and force everyone to make it come true. I can’t go to the whitehouse and demand that I get Green Lantern powers.. because I read it in a book.
It’s a book. It has some great life lessons… as do many other books. I always find it interesting that some people actually NEED this book to live a good, proper life. It’s common sense and it is how I was raised. We were not church going people, and I have no problem with people that go to church. I do, however, take exception to Christians forcing their values upon everyone. That is not even the “way” of the book you are using to beat people with.
There are many of God’s creatures that practice homosexuality via instinct. Why are we so arrogant that we feel the need to separate ourselves from God’s other creatures? Are they only God’s creatures when they are extinct, or when they need to be adopted? Why did God decide to create homosexual dolphins, but not humans?
However, I am not at all surprised. The Christians used the movie March of the Penguins to extol the virtues of monogamy. Not that I am opposed to monogamy… but penguins mate for one season, not life…. and they all look exactly the same.
When did people stop using their brain as a problem solving tool? When was it decided that we will all abide by antiquated rules and let ourselves be governed by an invisible man in the sky?
Why do Christians just randomly capitalize words?
“You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view” – Obi-wan (Who by the way is just as real as the Christian god)
Check your facts and not your opinions.
Kevin, you know a lot about the Bible, don’t you. I’ve watched your posts for some time and while you disagree with Christianity, at some point you have put some energy into knowing about it.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. :-)
Aha! moment.
I was raised in a religious household I’ve been baptized and I’ve been that bible thumping born again Christian that wanted to share the love of Jesus with you.
Then I grew up, truly started paying attention to what was in the bible, didn’t take what a pastor told me as 100% truth and started thinking for myself.
The bible is a fun book to study when you are doing just that and not taking it as blind faith and accepting every single word as truth.
I see. Opening one’s mind is the beginning of understanding. Blind faith is a closed book.
I am sorry you need to reread your bible Kevin – and I know you have read it before.
Hate the sin, love the sinner. Mahatma Gandhi Indian political and spiritual leader (1869 – 1948).
I am refering to the BIBLE not M. Gandhi
If I am in the mood for a fairytale, I prefer Grimms or Aesop’s Fables. Better stories, not as much vindictive death from someone who “loves” all mankind. They are just better story books all around. The bible is ok if you got nothing else, but if I’m in the bathroom and its going to be a while, and my choice it the bible or reading shampoo bottle label, I am going with the shampoo bottle. There is more truth on the shampoo bottle label.
was someone speaking to you?
Were you born rude, or is it something for which you went to grad school? Dane has as much right to post his thoughts here as you do — his seem a lot more coherent and realistic … !
Do you, along with a number of other people just like to but in on conversations that people are having. I hate to be working in an enviroment where you work, and you feel you can enter in on any conversation you so please – just how rude can you be – you have a lot of growing up to do.
Thats ok, you leftists love to quote the phrase “separation of church and state” which isnt even in our Constitution. I call it a push.
You are right.. but THIS is in the constitution:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ….”
I believe the take away here is that it is arguable that any law banning gay marriage would indeed be a law that is based upon religious beliefs. However, you are not prohibited from those beliefs.
Does everything need to be literal? Read the First Amendment. Here it is:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Because the first section states Congress [implying the government] shall make no law for the establishment of a religion, this indicates the government has no recognition of religion. Countless court decisions have come down to concur with this. Additionally, we do not tax churches because they are not part of our secular jurisdiction. Consider it sort of like a foreign embassy. We don’t tax those either, as they are not part of our secular society.
Finally, I would say when this whole issue of same-sex marriage appeared years ago, I was stunned that the religious crowd thought they had a dog in this fight. They just do not. I won’t go into all the detail here as it would take paragraphs. But, what we are talking about is secular (meaning “non-religious”) state-sponsored recognition of a contractual agreement between two people, that the state happens to also call “marriage.” This has zero to do with religious marriage which is a ceremony blessed by whatever potentate floats your boat.
We all know that a straight couple can go to City Hall, get a state-issued marriage license and be married by a Notary Public. During that ceremony, no mention of God or Jesus or Allah or any such thing is made. It has nothing to do with any religion. Once that ceremony is over, the marriage license is signed by the couple and the official performing the ceremony, the couple is legally married. For the umpteenth time, no religious mention is made at all during the ceremony. As far as the State, all other States, the Federal Government, and all other countries are concerned, that couple is married. Case closed.
Now, if you can accept that as being valid, then same-sex marriage is an easy sell. Because it is a secular marriage only, having nothing to do with any church. Period.
If you do not feel the straight couple is “truly married” because they did not have a marriage blessed by the Grand Poobah of some church, then that is a matter between you and your church. It has nothing to do with the couple just married by the State.
I swear I am going to write a comic book version of this. I cannot make it any simpler unless I start employing pictures.
I know what the first amendment says and, more importantly, DOESNT say. It doesnt say a word about “separation of church and state” yet the left almost to a person thinks it does.
No, not literally, but if it says the government doesn’t recognize an official religion, then it is a “separation of church and state.”
Perhaps, this will help translate the First Amendment into something understandable:
http://www.adl.org/issue_religious_freedom/separation_cs_primer.asp
The reason the left understands this concept “almost to a person” is because that is the meaning of the First Amendment. You cannot try to cram theocracy into the First Amendment. It is plain and simple and clearly defines the role of the government with regard to religion.
Here’s a quote and I think it sums it up nicely:
“The separation of church and state is firmly ingrained in the U.S. Constitution. Key founders such as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and others supported this idea and insisted that only church-state separation could guarantee the freedom of all Americans. Church-state separation is thus not only an historic principle, it’s also America’s great gift to the world. Under the separation policy, Americans have enjoyed more religious freedom than any other people in history.”
This is from: http://www.au.org/issues/foundations-church-state-separation
I fail to see why in the past 20 years of so this issue has bubbled to the surface. I know you would like nothing better than to change our democracy into a theocracy but you should look at other countries who have tried that and see how well they have succeeded.
Personally, as a small child, I thought religion was the biggest hoax ever foisted on mankind, but I also understood it was needed to control the masses and to explain events unexplainable by the science of the times. Eventually, we realized thunder actually was not Thor striking his anvil. I would have thought by now we would have relegated much of today’s “hocus pocus” to the mythology of the Greeks and the Romans. But, apparently not. So, we will creep along for another hundred years or more, I suppose.
We need to move forward, not back. You need to understand the separation of church and state. If it still is confusing to you, perhaps speaking with a Constitutional law professor would help you understand the logic in play here. Good luck.
Fortunately,we have such a professor as our President.Other respected voices on this would include Jonathan Turley.
The fact is . . . everyone who has denied God in this life won’t be enjoying what comes next.
Equal treatment under the law? That’s what we are seeking to make next.
There are many churches who are denying God right now.
On Sunday they are going to pass the HATE PLATE to use monies to try to tear apart families and to discriminate against families that are present within our society. God’s OK with raising money to try to negatively impact other people’s lives?
Would Christ sit in a church on Sunday that is going to collect funds to spread lies and mistruths about God’s children? God is ok with distortion of facts in order to belittle a group of God’s children?
Hate plate… Nice to see that one is still in use.
I was in no way trying to start an argument or to be offensive to any side of this issue. What I was saying is quit attacking each other.
In return for my simple comment, I have been viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem.
I was only asking for kindness. WOW, I got anything but.
Anger and hatred come through in your comments and I just don’t see how that will help your cause. You are the same people who preach save the planet, eat organic, schmooze about acting calm and at peace. At the very same time, you are sowing war-like expressions at the cost of your very own cause. Darn, can’t you see that?
I don’t see this as a problem. I see this as a human predicament or dilemma.
I haven’t attacked you. I stated the obvious. If there is an offering plate being passed around this Sunday, it is not to collect funds to help your fellow human beings. The funds will be used to try to tear down beautiful families that already exist within our society. I call that a hate plate, certainly not one being passed out of deep, concerning love and affection.
There is no anger or hatred. I am stating what I see. I am not homosexual. I have families and friends who are gay, and family and friends who are Christian. I can see that both parties have their reasons for feeling the way that they do. I see one group raising money to defend themselves against the vicious attacks of the other group that will plague our newspapers and airwaves from now until November.
You have stereotyped me because I have spoken on behalf of a group of people being discriminated against. I don’t preach save the planet, I don’t eat organic, I don’t say much of anything about calm and peace.
The only ones waging war on Maine families and children are these Christian radicals, fanatic zealots who want to impose their religion on all Americans. They are waging war and funding it by passing the offering plate. There are people among us starving, homeless or sick who need financial support.
How despicable.
Fact? If the existence of god could be demonstrated by facts then the practice of religion wouldn’t be called “faith.”
Amen!
Are you assuming that gay people have denied God?
No, socalled Christians are denying Jesus Christ, son of God.
I was in no way trying to start an argument or to be offensive to any side of this issue. What I was saying is quit attacking each other.
In return for my simple comment, I have been viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem.
I was only asking for kindness. WOW, I got anything but.
Anger and hatred come through in your comments and I just don’t see how that will help your cause. You are the same people who preach save the planet, eat organic, schmooze about acting calm and at peace. At the very same time, you are sowing war-like expressions at the cost of your very own cause. Darn, can’t you see that?
This has been cut-and-paste repeated how many times now? Enough, awreddy!!
No, Thor is the son of God, Odin is the All-Father.
Fact? Prove it.
That’s a FACT? Really … and your proof is … what??
The thing of it is, gays do exist. Christians exist. Neither group can make the other like themselves, so if each would keep his/her own views to him/herself, we could all get along. A tirade in a venue such as this only offends; it never converts. Since gays “came out” several years ago, they have used their new found liberty to put their sexuality in the faces of other people instead of just being. I find that offensive. When Christians do the same thing, it is offensive. There are ways to present one’s case without being so off-putting. Can we not all seek to be in the same world without needing to make everyone in it just like ourselves? I know I haven’t said this well, but please get my point and if you choose to disagree, or if you choose to agree, please do it kindly.
I find your statement of gay people living open and honestly as “in the faces of other people” to be offensive. Somehow I bet you’re holding gay people to a higher standard than of straight ones.
For example — it isn’t rare to see a straight couple walking down the street holding hands. Or a pregnant woman talking about her husband. Or a teacher having a photo of his spouse on his classroom desk. However, if a gay person/couple did these things (generally more rare), many would be outraged and claim they’re putting their sexuality in the face of others. That’s unfair.
Absolutely true.I worked with a closeted lesbian some years ago You couldn’t find a better worker,more pleasant and one who contributed to every employee collection,etc. She didn’t attend company functions with her partner so in return she was considered “not a team player” and passed over for promotions she deserved.Meanwhile the old white conservatives who ran the joint were the most disgusting sexist racist horndogs known to man-but you can be sure they were in the pews every Sunday like good little hypocrites.
I’m thrilled to have given my small percentage to that $122K and hope for equality for all my sisters and brothers in November!
Well said!!!!
I was in no way trying to start an argument or to be offensive to any side of this issue. What I was saying is quit attacking each other.
In return for my simple comment, I have been viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem.
I was only asking for kindness. WOW, I got anything but.
Anger and hatred come through in your comments and I just don’t see how that will help your cause. You are the same people who preach save the planet, eat organic, schmooze about acting calm and at peace. At the very same time, you are sowing war-like expressions at the cost of your very own cause. Darn, can’t you see that?
Viciously attacked? Come on. If you’re going to be that sensitive, try and imagine for a second what it is like to be a gay person. Hearing people discuss and debate them like they’re these awful creatures: Do they deserve equal rights? Do they deserve to serve in the military? Will they destory marriage?
If what I said offended you, I’m sorry, but the things that are said about gay people so easily and casually is about 100 times worse than what you’re complaing about. Can’t you see that?
What makes you think I am a Christian or that I am not gay/lesbian?
I didn’t say you were. I apologized if you were offended but pointed out that the remarks made about gay people are at least 100 times more offensive than what you’ve gotten upset about. Address that and quit trying to change the subject.
I have totally lost track of who said what and what I said in return. I don’t usually make comments here knowing well that I am out of my league. I apologize for generalizations. It does seem to me, though that in using that term about what I said is a generalization itself. I am in fact a Christian and i used to be partnered with someone of my own gender, though I seldom frequented the gay scene. I now feel asexual and do not in fact know what i believe about gayness. I did not intend to make negative comments about it; I only meant to offer an alternative, somewhat like a Pollyanna or a Pauliana. I have been engaged however in the dialogue(s), though I was quite clumsy at it.
I don’t see how it is ‘in your face’ to seek equal treatment by our government. I am not asking everyone to watch Bravo on cable or go to parades, I am asking that you not actively oppose our legitimate need for civil marriage.
I was in no way trying to start an argument or to be offensive to any side of this issue. What I was saying is quit attacking each other.
In return for my simple comment, I have been viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem.
I was only asking for kindness. WOW, I got anything but.
Anger and hatred come through in your comments and I just don’t see how that will help your cause. You are the same people who preach save the planet, eat organic, schmooze about acting calm and at peace. At the very same time, you are sowing war-like expressions at the cost of your very own cause. Darn, can’t you see that?
People will most likely see your reply if you only post it once…not copying and pasting it six or seven times over. Also, a person can’t be so naive as to believe that people won’t be offended by someone making generalizations about an entire group of people based on their sexual orientation and stating that “Since gays “came out” several years ago, they have used their new found liberty to put their sexuality in the faces of other people instead of just being. I find that offensive. ”
I will acknowledge that you probably didn’t mean to offend anyone, but the fact of the matter is, you did.
Also: “viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem” then going on to chastise people for being passionate about a major issue for them while making more generalizations? Not helping YOUR cause.
Ok
How on earth was my response to you an attack? I was simply pointing out that our struggle for civil marriage rights was in no way seeking to be offensive to you or Christians in general— we are seeking equal treatment by our government, which should be considered an American right.
And, there is NO way that anyone’s RIGHTS should be put out to popular vote — if they are RIGHTS, they simply exist. Putting this issue on the ballot is a farce!
I’m trying to find where CV attacked you. You’re the one who put the “tone” in CV’s post – I think you over reacted to something that’s not even there.
Maybe not he/she
And do you consider all opposite-sex couples who submit their engagement, wedding and/or birth announcements published in the local papers or any opposite-sex couple walking around together nothing more than heterosexuals using their liberty to put their sexuality in the faces of other people instead of just being? Do you think about the sexuality of others often?
I was in no way trying to start an argument or to be offensive to any side of this issue. What I was saying is quit attacking each other.
In return for my simple comment, I have been viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem.
I was only asking for kindness. WOW, I got anything but.
Anger and hatred come through in your comments and I just don’t see how that will help your cause. You are the same people who preach save the planet, eat organic, schmooze about acting calm and at peace. At the very same time, you are sowing war-like expressions at the cost of your very own cause. Darn, can’t you see that?
Not at all until it is brought to my attention. Announcing one’s gayness draws attention to alternate sexuality and all of its related issues.
Several years ago? The only ones who fixate on sexuality and on what people do in their bedroom is the Christians. It’s kind of gross to know that all they think about and talk about is the LBGT community having sex.
I was in no way trying to start an argument or to be offensive to any side of this issue. What I was saying is quit attacking each other.
In return for my simple comment, I have been viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem.
I was only asking for kindness. WOW, I got anything but.
Anger and hatred come through in your comments and I just don’t see how that will help your cause. You are the same people who preach save the planet, eat organic, schmooze about acting calm and at peace. At the very same time, you are sowing war-like expressions at the cost of your very own cause. Darn, can’t you see that?
We’re fighting for equal rights…it’s going to get “in your face” from time to time. Christians have been in my face for as long as I can remember, and they weren’t seeking equality. They were (and are) just being Christians.
I was in no way trying to start an argument or to be offensive to any side of this issue. What I was saying is quit attacking each other.
In return for my simple comment, I have been viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem.
I was only asking for kindness. WOW, I got anything but.
Anger and hatred come through in your comments and I just don’t see how that will help your cause. You are the same people who preach save the planet, eat organic, schmooze about acting calm and at peace. At the very same time, you are sowing war-like expressions at the cost of your very own cause. Darn, can’t you see that?
Kindness is wonderful. But as gay people more and more tried to be ourselves, the greater the push-back came from conservative Christians. Would you have us just shut up and take it? I think we did that for too long.
Your side is just getting back what it dished out. If you want to preach kindness, start by directing it at the people in your own tent. :)
Again, why are you making the assumption about my religion and or sexuality?
If you are not a conservative Christian, my apologies for assuming you were. As for your sexuality, you refer to the pro-gay side in 2nd person so it’s a safe bet that you’re not one of us.
Well, for one thing, making generalizations about the LGBT community kind of implies that you’re not a part of it.
good post…. there is no problem with the concept… it’s application where folks get stuck.. I’ve said for years that this topic is explosive.. it’s emotional….there is a ton of justifation going on.. using half truths and some complete and total ignoring of the Christian side of the argument.. it gets turned on it’s head with accusations of hate and bigotry… an excuse , a justification.. If a gay person is not a Christian, agnostic say.. then the Christian discussion is of no value to them unless you can first convince them that there is a biblical side to the topis.. good wuck on the one..they take the religious side out because it doesn’t fit, ….. but , you are right. it would be better for them to keep it to themselves and quit forcing it on the rest of us… and it would be better for us to shut the heck up once in awhile.. I buy that …
I was in no way trying to start an argument or to be offensive to any side of this issue. What I was saying is quit attacking each other.
In return for my simple comment, I have been viciously attacked by the gay/lesbian side of the problem.
I was only asking for kindness. WOW, I got anything but.
Anger and hatred come through in your comments and I just don’t see how that will help your cause. You are the same people who preach save the planet, eat organic, schmooze about acting calm and at peace. At the very same time, you are sowing war-like expressions at the cost of your very own cause. Darn, can’t you see that?
God – not god
No, as I used it, “god” is correct. Look it up.
you need to look it up – such a shame
See: common noun vs proper noun. I used the word “god” as a common noun.
That is because you may believe in a god, not the God.
I doubt there is any “the” god…just many gods from many stories. The more the facts come out, the more those gods are seen for what they really were. See: ancient Rome and Greece. What makes yours so special? Is he any more a physical part of our society than the gods of the ancient Romans and Greeks? No, he isn’t. And that’s something you really should think about.
I am sure God was to our founding fathers
What, an actual physical entity? To our Founding Fathers? Like, standing in front of them in the flesh…or whatever material? Because that’s what my reference was about.
These men had their own ideas of what and wasn’t true about the vast beyond, but they…like anyone else…were just reacting to the stories they had read or been told.
And apprently believed.
In varying degrees. There remains much debate on that topic.
But belief does not change reality. The undeniable fact is, nobody…not you, not me, not the pope…nobody knows for sure whether a god exists. You choose to believe. Me, not so much.
Normally, I couldn’t care less about people’s religious beliefs. Baptist, Hindu, Atheist…hey, whatever helps get you through the day. But when those beliefs start entering the real world to deny rights to a minority that I’m a part of, then it gets very personal.
He did not make them that way, God gives us a choice to be free moral agents. I did not say that to condemn anyone,though I know that will get mis-interpreted.
If you believe we were made by a god, then why is this diety not responsible for the fact that some of us have sexual attractions to persons of the same gender? That has nothing to do with morals, it’s just part of our basic nature.
If it is so basic then why can not a man or woman have a child by themselves?
What ARE you talking about? I was referring to same-sex attraction, not reproduction. Stay with the program.
Bigotry?
Suing photographers and caterers who say you are wicked is not bigotry?
No, but suing them because they broke laws against discrimination is fine by me.
I love it when you zealots use the word “wicked”. It’s so…Hollywood!
The whole gay marriage thing aside, I hate seeing the protestant fundamentalist and right wing Catholics get their special interest powers over all others again. It makes them stink like I don’t want anything to do with them when start talking about gays. And mind you I’m an all girl guy personally.
Support FFRF.org(Freedom From Religion Foundation)Great thinkers doing great work on a shoestring budget.
Time to start fund raising for the defense of Marriage…maybe twitter will provide matching funds. I look at this as a “cultural divide” and as a “Language divide” with the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman. The government can easily define all couples being “legal unions” or “civil unions”, no matter what gender they all have the same rights.
My opinion is that the same-sex marriage is all about defense of marriage! I’m defending marriage by allowing more people to marry, people who love each other, who feel for their partner the same way I feel about mine. I’m a married man, who loves his married wife, and know how good that feels, to be part of something bigger than myself. You’d have to be pretty selfish, and pretty insecure, to deny that same feeling to an entire group of fellow citizens.
How can anyone be against that, regardless of gender? How can anyone look someone else in the eye and say “Sorry, you aren’t good enough to have what I have.”
I am not saying two people who love each other should not be united. I am talking about the term “marriage”. Let’s look at it from another perspective. I am white. I apply for college as a minority “African American” and get accepted because of affirmative action.
Then they say ..no your white. Am I entitled to the same rights? That is why this country is so screwed up because every group has it’s own agenda to play on. Every individual is entitled to their own happiness and their own rights, that is what life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is about. Not pitting one group against another, or categories of groups. Marriage is a christian rite and should be separate from the government and legally known as a civil union giving equal rights to couples through a license. The term marriage should be be taken out of the legal system. That is my point.
marriage is not a Christian right. All people of all religions and no religions get married. Marriage is a civil right. One has to have a state sanctioned marriage license to get married in this country. One does not have to marry in the church if one does not care to marry in the church. Muslims marry, Buddhists marry, Hindus marry, Agnostics marry…so your argument that marriage is a Christian right is completely misguided.
Hello are we home my statement is “marriage is a Christian rite” … “RITE” a rite is a ceremony not a right it is also known as a sacrament or a sacred rite bestowed by the church as an element of one’s faith. This is why the big problem with this. People think you just go get a license. That is only the smallest piece of it. For thousands of years the “rite of marriage has been performed by Christians and now there is a frontal assault on it. I guess you think it is just a piece of paper, a “right” it is a RITE.
Hello! So by your statement, marriage has been and should always be a Christian rite? What about all the other religions and non-religions…do they perform marriage rites or is it just a Christian thing? Wiccans get married all the time. Legally, in the state of Maine, one needs only to get a license and have a notary and a witness to get married. Is that marriage any less valid than one where a god is involved?
No. Marriage means several things. If marriage was simply a Christian rite, then Christians would not go to the state seeking marriage licenses. There is an aspect of it that is civil marriage and that’s what your gay neighbors want — those legal rights and protections. Denying them equality is the assault.
Marriage is not wholly a Christian RITE …… many couples throughout history have had their marriages officiated outside of a Christian church by non-clergy …. so for many marriage is a civil RITE.
When will you be giving up your legal, civil and government- given rights and benefits associated with the civil marriage license for those bestowed exclusively by your Christian church?
Ok so if marriage is a Christian rite (it’s not, but for the sake of argument lets say it is) then why aren’t you railing against the Hindu’s or Buddhists for performing marriages? They are infringing on your patent in a very non-Christian way. While you are sitting there not being able to answer, think about this. The majority of Christian “rites” were taken from pagan religions in order to make assimilation easier.
Basically, this country was founded on judeo-christian principles. I am not going to cross over into other cultures.
Again, your “rite” is not yours, it was stolen from Pagan’s. So your entire argument is invalid. Plus, you can not claim a Christian rite and say no to SSM and not be against Hindu or Buddhist marriage being performed in the United States. It is either a Christian rite, solely the providence of Christianity, or it isn’t. The worst part about this entire debate is Christians using Jesus to promote bigotry. If you just don’t like the idea of SSM just say so, don’t try and hide behind Jesus.
Marriage ceremonies and customs long predate not only our country, but Christianity as well. It sort of invalidates your entire argument when you claim that marriage is solely a “Christian rite” because our country was founded on “judeo-christian principals”.
Then you can feel free to deny us the rite, but don’t stand in the way of our access to civil marriage rights.
Marriage for anyone is not a civil right.
Marriage is a civil (meaning government) institution, conveying over 1000 civil (meaning governmental) rights and laws and advantages to the couple getting married. Therefore, marriage is a civil right. And according to the Supreme Court of the United States of America, marriage is a fundamental right that should be afforded to all Americans.
Perhaps you wouldn’t look at it that way if you were denied the right to marriage based on who you wish to marry…
Civil marriage has no religious attachments, though. Even atheists can obtain a civil marriage license.
Churches always have and always will be able to turn couples away from their church, that is protected by the first amendment. But our government should not be allowed to discriminate, and that is why we are asking Mainers to allow civil marriage for same sex couples.
I am reminded of a Catholic friend of my dad’s who married a Vietnamese woman in the 60’s(no small matter then)His church did everything but hang him outside-for doing the RIGHT thing and marrying his children’s mother.He got very wealthy and guess what-his church that threw him aside saw not a dime.Their loss.That church has since closed.
The issue is the term “marriage” license. Maybe it should be called “civil couples license”.
Then this issue would disappear faster than dry ice. Yes couples should have the same rights. I do not have an issue with that. What I have an issue with is the sanctity of marriage and the assault on the rite of marriage. The government comes up with a license for everything.
I am totally fine with everyone getting civil union licenses, heterosexual and homosexual alike. That would pass Constitutional scrutiny.
That said, I have yet to find anyone who is truly only hung up on the use of the word marriage. There is always an uglier opinion they use this to hide behind.
The reason, you didn’t get into collage, is because you lied on application, not because you’re white. (;0)
And there is a reason marriage is between a man and a woman.
What, would that be.
If your not smart enough to figure it out…go ask someone else?
*you’re
…
Now, do you really think, I’m not smart enough, or are you just skipping the answer?
ll
That’s a very poor argument and full of holes.
Affirmative action is a very different topic, and goes against the idea of equal treatment under the law.
I for one do not support affirmative action laws, but I am steadfastly supportive of civil marriage equality, for there is no valid reason for our government to discriminate against same sex couples seeking those civil law protections.
The government has a vested interest in allowing SSM marriage.More marriage licenses=state $$.Not to mention revenue taxes on weddings,etc.The potential payoff to ME as one of the premier destination wedding states is gigantic.Not to mention we need the boost that being a welcoming state to all will bring.We certainly haven’t been welcoming with the current state admin.
So let’s annul your marriage and you can get a civil union.
How can you call it ‘defending marriage’ when you are seeking to keep people from marrying?
A good idea.
Get the Government out of the marriage business completely.
Put government in the Civil Union business and that’s what any two people may utilize to protect their mutual legal rights in their committed relationship.
Let your church do the marrying part if that’s what you want and not your government.
I guess I really don’t understand how raising money helps their cause. It seems to me it’s such an emotional decision, such a personal decision, whether or not you support same-sex marriage or not. I don’t think coming to a decision on same-sex marriage is a decision based on education, but one of personal morals and convictions. Me, my own personal morals and convictions are that it’s not up to me, or up to our society, to tell someone else, a grown, mature adult, who they can love. That’s so crystal clear to me, that it’s hard for me to understand how any grown adult could look at another grown adult, and say “Sorry, you aren’t capable of deciding for yourself who can love and who you can’t, so I will tell you who you can’t marry. You can marry your cousin, but you can’t marry the same-sex partner you love.”
I’m voting for same-sex marriage, just because it’s the right, responsible, moral, thing to do, to allow grown adults to make their own decisions. I kind of always thought that that’s what being conservative was all about…allowing the people to make their own decisions, and not having the liberal nanny-state telling people what they can do, where they can go…who they can love…
How does letting another human being love another human being, and show that love like we can, harm us? The answer is: It doesn’t.
A heterosexual, married, liberal, man.
MUCH applause!
I, wish I could like this statement more then once! A heterosexual, married, woman.
I also wish I could like this statement more than once. – A heterosexual, unmarried (and staying that way until marriage rights are extended to same-sex couples in this state) woman.
The one problem I have with your statement is the “that’s what being conservative was all about”. You talk as though if you are conservative you are against gay marriage and that isn’t the case. More than likely it is religious people (who tend to be conservative), not conservatives, who are against gay marriage. There is a big difference.
Also, have gays thought about approaching this as they want civil unions versus marriage? To me, marriage is all about religion and civil unions, while civil unions are about rights. I don’t think it is anyone’s place to change the faith of people, or demand churches to marry same sex individuals if that church is against it, but I can certainly see the need for allowing gays to have civil unions. If it were claified more to my example, they might have an easier time getting their civil union, which, I think, is all they are asking for.
Hmm…. Talk about trying to “buy” the vote huh? ^.^ I wonder if Mainers can be bought…. I’m waiting for one of these news sources to point out that the Equality people aren’t filled with all volunteers. They are PAYING people to go out and canvass. Just go look at Craigslist….. It kind of reminds me of Occupy Wall St when in NY on craigslist they were looking for people to pay to go there. You know, those people canvassing are just like little lobbyists really. They’re paid to go “lobby” for their said cause!
I’m sorry, your point here is?
Someone is just waking up to politics I guess.
Hmm…I wonder if NOM ever released the names of their donors as required by Maine law?
Government should not be in the marriage business. This is not pro gay marriage, this statement is anti-government.
the trouble is, government has always been in the marriage business. One needs a state sanctioned license to get married and there are over 1,000 legal rights conveyed to married persons that are unavailable to unmarried couples.
But until then there should be equal protection under the law.
Doesn’t matter if they should or shouldn’t be…fact of the matter is they are!
Wouldn’t it be better to eliminate all associated with marriage in government, then have 1 person, of your own choosing, to convey all rights associated with marriage? This makes more sense to me than giving government more rights to control your life. Unless it is all about the word “marriage”, then this is purely political theater.
As if that $$ spigot will be shut off now.Not likely.
Then strip all federal and state benefits.
Then you have something.
Love that you use this incestuous relationship to make your point.
Of course if Hallibutron had donated to the other side it would be evil corporations destroying our system.
Weird! Someone actually honoring and adhering to our campaign laws!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
Folks, your religion has nothing to do with the civil contract of marriage… Give it a rest.
Ted, do you know where i can sign up to help get the word out, possible over the phone ect
I can answer that one– http://www.mainersunited.org/
You can volunteer in a number of ways. You can go in person to a phone bank to call supporters in November, encouraging them to get out and vote on election day. They even have at-home phone banks, where you can use your phone line and a computer to work on a virtual phone bank (you don’t call out, you just connect to their 800 number and the software connects your calls).
Thanks for your support! I know you’re skeptical about our chances this time around, but regardless it’s a wonderful feeling to do what you can for what’s right.
Its not really im skeptical, its just im frustrated with what some people say about this. I will go to website today and donate my time, not that i have much time, but will do my best
I am flatly skeptical. The mouth-breathers outnumber reasoned educated folks by a very wide margin. I see us losing by greater numbers than before. Angry little bigots want to harm… and that will be their only goal.
To be honest with you Ted i was one of those that did not vote to get it through last time due to my church was telling us not too, which by the way i no longer support or go to that church. I believe you all should be able to marry who you want and enjoy your life together. In all, do you think we can get this to pass , i am not sure you said you were flatly skeptical.
I hold no grudge towards those of faith: having faith does not mean holding animosity towards those who wish you no harm, nor does it mean one cannot strive for equal treatment under government based upon their chosen faith.
Faith is NOT the issue here. Uneducated, stubborn citizens who actively wish to see gay citizens harmed by the vote of the mob is the problem.
And that is something no amount of faith or optimism will change.
Thank you and i hope we can win the battle this time and get this through
Volunteer with Equality Maine. That’s about your best bet.
As for the poor education of folks that think religion is required for marriage, I’m afraid there’s no stopping that.
Thank you Ted. I wnt to http://www.mainersunited.org and registered to help
That’ll work too. Any help is apperciated.
No issue there, i just talked to a great gay couple and they are pointing me in the right direction to help you all, and tell me where i can make a donation.
Exactly. Marriage isn’t a purely religious issue. Plenty of atheists get married every day.
Aye, that they do.
By a judge… Justice of the Peace… or just a lowly Notary.
No religion needed.
Sorry- WE DONT AGREE, and NO, we won’t rest. God Bless!
……
You don’t have to agree… it’s a fact you cannot change.
No religion of any kind is necessary. Just call a JP, judge, or notary and make the appointment, pay the fees and guess what?
You’re married! No bible necessary… no preacher… no priest. These are just simple black and white facts.
You should rest… and while you’re at it, educate yourself on civil law. You sound foolish arguing against such basic facts.
No one is doing to you what you are doing to everyone else. YOU are trying to force YOUR very narrow view on everyone, regardless of if you were asked or not. How would you like it if tomorrow, every person who was not Christian insisted that you couldn’t be either? If there were laws made banning your lifestyle? Would you just sit back and allow something like that to happen? Well those of us who are not narrow minded bigots see that is exactly what YOU and YOURS are trying to do. If you actually tried to live by that 2000 year old book of fables you try and force upon everyone else , you might find many reasons to halt your hate filled activities, unless you would want the same done to you (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you), or you might come across a verse or two where your lord says you can put whatever you want into your body (There is nothing from without that by entering into a man can defile him.) Or you could continue to pick and choose what parts of the faith you like, and try and force the rest of the world to be just like you. Narrow minded and hate filled.
So you speak for all Christians? Because I happen to know several good, Christian people who are all for marriage equality.
Civil marriage is what we are seeking, not children’s rhymes.
You are wicked, America.
You have a 60% divorce rate, the world’s largest number of people in jail, zombies running loose in Florida, and now you want society to adopt this ultimate form of mental illness, men who believe they are “wives” and women who believe they are “husbands.”
Remember Maine’s most notorious advocate of homosexual marriage, who said that he and his partner were “Married in the eyes of God?” Four days earlier, he shot and killed a man in a drug-fueled orgy.
Three men + four drugs + a shotgun = gay marriage.
Jesus + the weak minded = millions dead
Do you really want me to start listing ALL of the folks that proclaim homosexuality to be a “sin” and yet were caught with their “pants” down?
lol..you would be here all day!
Nope…My employment allows me to check in at different times during the day.
Now, do you have some relevant or a question maybe?
Yeah, go ahead and pretend that gays are responsible for the divorce rate.
And quit cherry picking examples and acting like they represent the whole. Scan this newspaper for less than 5 minutes and you’ll find examples of heterosexuals doing terrible things, even to their spouses and children. That however does NOT mean all heterosexuals do the same thing. Don’t be a hypocrite. You’re holding gay people to a higher standard than you are straight people. That’s wrong.
Now the curtain is lifted – See the hatred of God and His Divine Son Jesus!
The bizarre behavior in “gay pride parades” is normal, right?
Find me ONE example of someone who publicly advocated traditional marriage after having shot and killed someone in a drug-fueled orgy.
GAY PRIDE = WICKEDNESS = DEPRAVITY = SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
God will NOT tolerate this wickedness.
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/06/10/news/nation/whitey-bulger-girlfriend-faces-sentencing-in-mass/
Are all straight relationships like this? One a mob guy with a secret girlfriend?
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/06/08/news/bangor/bangor-stabbing-suspect-called-victim-his-friend-affidavit-states/
another straight murder
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/06/07/news/hancock/southwest-harbor-man-gets-9-years-for-dealing-drugs/
wife beating drug trafficker
These are all examples within the last week. It doesn’t mean all straight people are wicked and evil. The only thing wicked is your attitude. It’s disgusting and hateful.
Nor does God want you to Judge others
You are such a good example of how religion appeals to the lowest common denominator of society.
Is that so, Somainecoast?
Mother Theresa is the lowest common denominator, and parading down the street naked dressed in chains is normal?
No wonder you say “gay marriage” is actually marriage!
Yes, religion appeals to the lowest common denominator of society. Those who easily follow salesmen peddling ancient stories that promise wonderful things.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t a few great people who espouse it, such as Mother Theresa. Judging by your posts however, I can see that you are no Mother Theresa. You come off as bitter, shrill and poorly informed.
As far as your reference to Gay Pride parades…yeah, they can get weird. But so can any event taken to the extreme for the sake of entertainment. Personally, I think they hurt our cause more than help it. But that’s because most people just don’t get the campy intent of it all.
Okay.
Now I understand your position perfectly.
Your neighbors who go to church, mass, or synagogue are the “lowest common denominator” and the homosexuals parading naked down Main Street are merely “taking entertainment to an extreme.”
With logic like that, no wonder you support “gay marriage!”
The great religions of all the world are merely “ancient stories” but you in your wisdom think a man should play the role of a “wife” and a woman should play the role of a “husband.”
Having failed in logic, you try the ad hominem attack.
Interesting that you say the “great religions of all the world are merely ancient stories”. You might want to give some serious thought to that statement.
They can’t all be the one truth, can they? No, they can’t. So why do so many people follow so many paths? Because they’ve been told to believe the stories and they do.
And if most of the religions are false, I submit to you that they all are. Including yours.
Regarding your comments about gay people, your lack of understanding seems to know no limits.
Got it: All religions bad; homosexuality good.
Thanks for helping the public see what we are up against.
No, you don’t “got it”. Homosexuality is neither good nor bad, any more than is heterosexuality. Each is part of what defines us.
As for religions, I find it interesting that you chose not to respond to the points I made. Instead, you opted for the quick, snide remark.
You present yourself as the perfect example of the bigotry that an ever-increasing part of the public, who supports equality for gays, finds itself up against.
The question under discussion is homosexual marriage (a logical absurdity) not religion.
There is no point in debating whether Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Confucianism, Hinduism, and Buddhism ever had anything to offer humanity.
Homosexual acts are instrically evil because they injure the person who performs them, and are the misuse of a natural function.
You have lost the argument, and are resorting to invective by calling me and others who hold the same position a bigot.
First; look up the word “marriage” at Webster’s. Homosexual unions are included. Just because you don’t approve of it doesn’t make it any less of a reality.
Second; you continue to ignore the points I made earlier about religion, which is very much a part of the conversation. If you took religious leaders and their followers out of the equation, there would be very little opposition to marriage equality for gays.
Third; why do you assume you know what two persons of the same gender do in the bedroom? Do you realize that much of what you think is going on also happens between some straight couples? File all of that under “none of your business”, just like your sex life is none of anyone else’s.
Lastly; yes, you are a bigot, as I understand the definition of the word. You are very ill-informed and presumptuous, as well.
Holy cow! “Intrinsically evil”? “Injure the person who performs them”? “Misuse of a natural function?”
Please do elaborate. I do hope you’re not just another person who is focusing on what two free consenting Americans do between themselves. I just don’t understand why people focus on the sex act when everything gay people do straight people do as well.
The tone I get from some people in these comment fora is that, ironically, they’d be in full support of Sharia law’s treatment of homosexuals.
Are you a politician?
I agree. All my life I have cringed when the news shows the most extreme paraders even though *I* find them entertaining. At the same time, I have seen bizarre examples of straight people in other parades.
How Christian is it to judge like this guy does?
Oh, I get it. He’s just a flamer. He makes these nonsensical statements and chooses to ignore the hard questions. He only addresses the “easy” ones that he can just copy and past the same answer.
If I want to find wickedness,duplicity and lies,all I need to do is spend five minutes with CPAC(followed by a LONG hot shower to get the stink of their ignorance and hate off of me)
By your logic, no one in America should have any rights or freedoms at all, because there is crime.
Double wow.
The so called zombie had no human flesh in his system so no zombie.Really how about the Christian mom who drown five of her own children you can not say it was because she was christian like you can not say this man killed because he was gay. I bet you heard this and assumed it was true ,like the zombie which was not.
How do you even mange to get yourself dressed? You cant be this utterly foolish in reality. I seriously cant’t tell if you are trolling , or if you actually believe anything you just wrote. Using that logic, the woman who drowned her children and stacked them like cord wood in the bathroom while she went to get her next victim, did so because she was a straight christian. Or the woman in Florida who just last month shot and killed her kids did so because she was a single christian, and the priests who like to rape little boys did so because they were christian. Also following your “logic” we should now call for the disbandment, and prosecution of all christians.
The only problem with perverting the truth to fit your bigoted view, is others can do that too.
The number of people in jail might be less because of high crime and more about the enacting of more laws to ensure that the prisons, public and privately-run, are filled.
Brah-let me tell you that in our marriage, neither my husband nor I will be the “wife.” What makes a “wife”? I think that you are stuck in the idealized gender roles…
Will you please tell me where I can find details on this person who you won’t name and his support of same-sex marriage? You keep saying that he said that they were married in the eyes of God. If that’s that case, then how is that supporting legal marriage?
AND PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, ADDRESS THE HUNDREDS OF EXAMPLES OF STRAIGHT PEOPLE IN STRAIGHT MARRIAGES WHO KILL THEIR FAMILIES! Steven Lake is one of the most heinous examples in recent memory. How do you explain that, please.
Zombies, Bath Salts, Heavy Metal, tattoos, nose rings, crystal meth, gay marriage — America, Land of the Damned.
…and it all started with that Christian Zombie Jesus.
lol
Ahh yes, here’s the irrational hatred you spew every time you type something up.
It’s ignorant and offensive to portray committed couples who wish to protect the lives they build together with drug abuse.
Westbrook Baptist much?
So, that means Adam and Eve had children who mated with each other or they mated with their own children. Ewww.
That’s right, if the Christians are to be believed everyone walking this Earth is the result of incestuous relationships.
Another good reason not to support facebook.
to all who don’t think i have the right as much as another person to have my say is just the way of American people. and to ConvivialVisits…..who told you I was angry about anything…And no I don’t care about you or others like you I care that there are no morals left in the country and I stand for marriage between a man and a women….legal documents are just that legal and if there is a paper filed or filled out for someone to have legal rights over someones medical or financial and a nursing home is not following these then you needed to move your loved one. No one has the right to overrule a legal document unless is’t a judge in a court of law. And by the way I have been in the same situation and had the wishes followed.
There ar no legal documents that can make up for all of the 1,100+ benefits and privileges civil marriage conveys at the federal level alone.
No legal document will give the partner of a gay soldier access to base housing or commissary privileges.
No legal document will grant a widowed partner social security benefits from the deceased’s estate.
No legal document will grant a widowed partner unlimited immunity to estate taxes upon their partner’s death.
These are just some examples. There are also important reasons for civil marriage around the children raised in same-sex families— without civil marriage, there can be no divorce agreements for child custody and support, for example.
Since our country’s inception there have been groups that have seen the promise of our Constitution, and petitioned our society for equal rights, access to government, and legal protections. And all along the way there have been people like you, predicting doom and gloom and national destruction if we extend these rights to one more group, race, sex, or other minority.
And every time they have failed, and every time our nation has failed to self-destruct. This is just the next way in which our Constitution is fulfilling tis promise to ALL Americans.
As for your anger— when you end a message screaming in all caps, how do you expect that comes across?
It’s not just about legal documents though. Here’s a case that just happened for example: a lesbian couple had been together since 1967. One of them died and the other was left with the estate tax bill of $350,000. Heterosexual spouses can leave their surviving spouses any amount of property tax free, but that’s not the case for gay ones.
Do you think that is fair?
And it’s about marriage in general. When I see someone on tv asking to have his or her loved one’s hand in marriage, that is clear to me that they want to spend the rest of their lives together. It shows everyone in the world the level of their commitment, a commitment that everyone understands.
Telling us that our relationships and our loves doesn’t compare (painting us as “guns and drugs equal gay marriage”), telling us that we aren’t worthy (when some of us have stronger and more long-lasting relationships than many high-publicity marriages among straight people), and telling us that the only thing we need to do is just go see a lawyer means that you think that we are second-class citizens and not equal Americans.
Another good reason not to support facebook!
Your right i support it, i do two games then my wife does everything else. Just because he donated 100 thousand does not mean a darn thing. Its gonna be the voters who decide this again. Everyone i talk to will not change there mind. I am voting to get this through
AMEN!
That’s because they’re desperate to bury the child sex scandals they already got a free pass on.
Just one more reason to stop using Facebook folks. In another year or two it wont even exist.
Chris Hughes donated the money, not Facebook. But if you want to go with that logic, where do you work? I want to know which products/services to boycott.
You do realize that it’s impossible for you to avoid supporting companies that support same sex marriage, right?
Facebook is getting involved with state politics!!!!!!!!!!!!
doesn`t matter which side your on but when a social network endorses a hot potatoe like this
something is wrong. they could inflict bigitry or hatred either way to the younger generation.
That is where this issue will finally be resolved. Changing a persons opinion after 40 or 50 years of belief is near inpossible. 30 years ago it was illegal for a white and colored to date never mind marry.
Now it is common place.
But back to Facebook
This just might be why it opened high when first traded and now has lost in value
They should be on the fence publically
There was no mention about matching the oppositions funding
And isn`t this what everyone was complaining about before, outside money determining the out come of this states elections
why not take their money and donate their money to a research foundation to cure diseases
There is a lot wrong with your comment. It isn’t Facebook donating the money, it’s one of the founders who is and he happens to be gay. Even if Facebook donated money, they shouldn’t have to donate to both sides, that’s silly. This is absolutely not the reason why Facebook traded high and tumbled either. BOTH sides are using outside money, that happens across the country. However, only one side constantly breaks our campaign laws and that would be the anti-marriage equality side.
Its facebook, he is the founder. Either way. I am voting to get this through
It’s not Facebook. If you donate to a campaign does that mean your employer donated to the campaign? No. Facebook didn’t take their funds to donate. Chris Hughes donated the money.
No comment, i am voting to get it through either way. But read up on things.
Adding more exclamation points just makes you look more ignorant when you state something that’s so completely wrong.
As many have already pointed out, Facebook did not make any donation here, it was one of the founders of that company who wrote a check from his personal finances.
Oh, but you have no problem with NOM, which actually broke state laws, donating to the opposition? This was Chris Hughes’s donation, not Facebook’s. What I find really ironic is that opponents use Facebook as a tool to spread hate and intolerance, but the co-founder, a gay man, is using Facebook and his profits to promote fairness and equality.
Good for Facebook.
At least they’re not criminals like NOM.
Why would anyone be on the fence about treating people fairly? This isn’t a question of gay and straight, it’s a question of right and wrong. One that I thought we as Americans ended years ago when we ended the segregation of the races, and revoked all the stupid laws banning interracial marriage. Do a google search on protesters of desegregation of the American South. In 40 years, YOU will look that foolish too.
There were race riots in that time frame though.Maybe not on the day of that decision or as a direct result of that but still cities burned in the 60’s.
The race riots you are referring to occurred after the murder of MLK.
Absolutely,as I indicated in a general sense-also riots in DET in 1969 and others.Certainly the MLK assassination unleashed rage and sorrow beyond belief-exactly what he would’ve NOT wanted.
Your comment is pretty gross. He probably would have not wanted to have been assassinated. And is a riot not the most obvious response? The leader of a fight to gain equality is murdered and there is just supposed to be respect and quiet mourning? Come on.
It’s a clear matter of public record that he expected to be killed and had survived prior attempts.Whether the riots are justified or not is not the issue.The point is most of the damage was done in the poor neighborhoods anyway.I certainly meant no disrespect to Dr. King and don’t see how you found any.
Also,to get back on the original subject,I’m interested what you thought of my response to one of your other posts regarding employment discrimination above.
How insightful, Einstein.
Well, I am proud to be one of the 2800 individual donors. If I had more time on my hands, I would be down in the trenches, going door to door. Good for Equality Maine/Mainers United! Lets keep the momentum going!
Are there any other words that are the exclusive domain of the Christian faith? If so it would certainly save confusion if this list was publicized.
I attended Protestant churchs faithfully as a child and don’t remember ever hearing that certain words were exclusively Christian, some Jewish and still others “civil” …
All churches are passing the plate, for both sides. Just because this article states a few fundemental churches doesn’t mean the congregationalists aren’t either.
if there’s nothing wrong with same sex marriage,then why is there such a strong movement against it . For ages gays have lived in the shadows and closets for fear of expulsion of the main stream of thought of what is right and what is wrong. Times have changed and the gay community is more openly accepted by the prior nay Sayers. This acceptance however is not good enough it seems, for the gay populace just keeps pushing and pushing for this right and that right-And being in the headlines constantly..Isn’t loving one another enough ? Isn’t that what really matters ?
No is there a diffrence between civil unions an marriage ? what do people get that are married that people with civil unions don’t get ?
There are no civil unions recognized by the federal government. There are over 1,000 protections and benefits that come from that recognition.
It’s really painfully obvious to anyone who has looked into the issue.
Maine does not have civil unions, for one thing.
But even more importantly, civil unions are not civil marriages in the eyes of the law. You would have to re-write thousands of laws on the books to bring civil unions to par with civil marriage. And why do that? Those who oppose same sex marriage aren’t really hung up on the use of a word— they object to the idea that same sex couples have meaningful, lifelong relationships just as heterosexual couples can.
Yes you are so right
Why not ask the question “Isn’t loving one another enough” to straight married couples? Then, you’ll better understand what gay couples are seeking.
As far as the “strong movement” against equality for gays, it’s becoming weaker as more people choose to open their minds and learn the truth. It’s mostly religious dogma that we’re fighting.
Lack of education. Lack of having been out in the real world. Religious fueled bigotry.
Would you sit quietly if your neighbors received precious protections and benefits from the state that you did not, with zero rational arguments do defend you being treated as less than they?
I don’t think so.
Yes, loving one another IS what really matters. For those of us who have been in supportive, committed relationships, building lives together, we absolutely need the important protections that civil marriage offers.
There are many benefits of civil marriage that simply cannot be reproduced outside of civil marriage— no amount of legal contracts will convey all of the 1,100+ benefits and privileges that couples receive with a simple marriage license.
Offering civil marriage protections to the same sex couples in our communities is the right thing to do here.
I’m sure Devonshire is talking about marriage as a rite for any religion and that wouldn’t nor should it stand in the way of civil rights, but the two need to be seperated. My earlier post was this:
The one problem I have with your statement is the “that’s what being conservative was all about”. You talk as though if you are conservative you are against gay marriage and that isn’t the case. More than likely it is religious people (who tend to be conservative), not conservatives, who are against gay marriage. There is a big difference.
Also, have gays thought about approaching this as they want civil unions versus marriage? To me, marriage is all about religion and civil unions, while civil unions are about rights. I don’t think it is anyone’s place to change the faith of people, or demand churches to marry same sex individuals if that church is against it, but I can certainly see the need for allowing gays to have civil unions. If it were claified more to my example, they might have an easier time getting their civil union, which, I think, is all they are asking for.
Just as soon as religious organizations and folks like NOM stop protesting civil unions, you might have something.
However, as marriage is a civil contract (not religious) and the bigots even try to stomp on civil unions, there really is no reason to compromise. They’ll still take just as much issue with it.
The idea that this is solely about the word “marriage” is a lie.
I’m sure Devonshire is talking about marriage as a rite for any religion and that wouldn’t nor should it stand in the way of civil rights, but the two need to be seperated. My earlier post was this:
The one problem I have with your statement is the “that’s what being conservative was all about”. You talk as though if you are conservative you are against gay marriage and that isn’t the case. More than likely it is religious people (who tend to be conservative), not conservatives, who are against gay marriage. There is a big difference. Also, have gays thought about approaching this as they want civil unions versus marriage? To me, marriage is all about religion and civil unions, while civil unions are about rights. I don’t think it is anyone’s place to change the faith of people, or demand churches to marry same sex individuals if that church is against it, but I can certainly see the need for allowing gays to have civil unions. If it were claified more to my example, they might have an easier time getting their civil union, which, I think, is all they are asking for.
Christians had powerful opportunity they could have really taken advantage of. They could have said, look we do not agree with your life style but that is not our place to judge, only Gods. What we can stand behind is two people that are loving and committed to each other and want to share that love with god. We may not agree with everything about it but we can agree with love, commitment and faith. That is what Chrisitinas should be focusing on. However what they want to focus on is that they think it is against the bible, its a sin. Everyone sins, everyone leads a sinful life. Its up to only God to judge, not anyone else. Let them love each other and God, when judgment day comes then we will know what was right and wrong.
I find it interesting when people start talking about what God says or what God thinks or God’s plan. Since God has not been talking the mankind for a very long time we have no way to validate these claims about God. What we have s a bunch of books written by unknown men, whose level of honesty is also unknown. This is the case with all the holy books of all religions that have one. So we are dealing with third hand information about any god.
Meanwhile marriage is a secular legal matter. The marriage license and the legal right granted by the secular government is a secular legal matter. This legal right is not based one where you have the marriage ceremony nor even if you have marriage ceremony. I don’t think I would want legal rights to be dependent on what any religion wants.
We are a country that has just about every religion in the world, including tribal ones.Therefore no one religion should be allowed to decide the rights for others. Nor do I think that individual rights should be left to what the majority wants. Our constitution was set up so that the majority could not rule by mob rule, it is designed to protect the rights of even unpopular minorities.
Gay marriage will have no affect of heterosexual marriage which will still have a 50% divorce rate, still deal with cheating husbands and wives, still suffer from violence, incest, child murder, and child pornography. Interesting how few of the family value people will even talk about those problems and few churches will either.
Seems to me that the heterosexual community has plenty of mess to clean up before they even begin to worry about what other people are doing. Worrying about gays and gay marriage is just a way to distract yourself about the many unsolved heterosexual problems you don’t seem to want to deal with. After the heterosexual clean up their own house,then perhaps they may have some right to worry about other people and what those people are doing.
BRAVO!!!!
RAmen.
Well said.
VERY well said.
Please explain to me why a gay couple being married degrades the senctity(sp) of marriage.Also how would this effect my marriage.If you ask me people who get married 3or 4 time really degrade the meaning of marriage.
It has nothing to do with the “sanctity of marriage”. That is just another excuse that folks use to bolster bigots like themselves so it seems their wish to harm others is rooted in some just cause.
It is, in fact, a lie, spread so that folks can continue to harm others.
Nothing more.
People should be with & marry whomever they choose. People of the same sex should be entitled to benefits of a traditional marriage if they chose to commit themselves to one another. The problem is that they insist on calling it a marriage. If they had their own definition of their legalized commitment that would entitle them to the same rights as a married male & female, I think this would be a non-issue (eventually), but no, that is not good enough. It’s the insistence of calling it a marriage that opponents do not want. It is not that heterosexuals dislike gays, I could care less what a person does with their personal relationships, but a marriage is one man & one woman & should not be changed. Turning this into an equality & hate issue is too frequently used when all else fails.
It’s not that we insist on calling it a marriage. The fact is that civil marriage is what we are asking for— if the legal arrangement was called turnip greens, we’d be asking for turnip greens.
Honestly, I have never met anyone who is only hung up on the use of the word marriage. There is always another, uglier reason behind their opposition. Most of the time it is a belief that gays and lesbians simply cannot have as fulfilling and committed relationship as heterosexuals. That’s simply untrue— I have been committed in a monogamous relationship for over two decades, longer than almost every heterosexual married couple we know!
This should put an end to all the arguments about outside money. Lucky for you he didn’t pledge FB stock.
THE WINEVILLE CHICKEN COOP MURDERS
DO PARENTS = TWO HUSBANDS?
OR ONE MALE HUSBAND AND ONE MALE WIFE?
Why do you keep dredging up a horrific murder case from 1928 in your argument against marriage equality for gays? Gay people are like straight people…there are good and bad among all of us.
And yes, some parent couples are two husbands…or two wives with lesbian couples.
You might want to stop using all caps. Combined with your verbal content, it’s making you appear like you’re coming unglued.