AUGUSTA, Maine — Gov. Paul LePage overstated claims about how badly Maine students do academically as well as the uniqueness of his plan to fix the problem, according to some education and state policy experts.

For example, forcing public schools to reimburse colleges for remedial education, which LePage proposed this week, is not a new idea. It has been discussed and rejected in three states, including New Hampshire.

LePage, in a news conference on education reform Wednesday, said there is no precedent for some of the accountability measures he wants to sign into law in Maine, particularly one that would require high schools to reimburse colleges for remedial courses.

LePage, in comments that largely have been seen as a condemnation of Maine schools and students, said 54 percent of students who go to Maine’s community colleges and more than 20 percent of university system students require remedial courses. Those numbers are too high, according to LePage, who characterized the situation as too many students and families effectively paying double for their education — once through their tax dollars for public schools and again in tuition dollars in higher education.

“I’m going to propose legislation this session that says any sending high school that requires a child to take remedial courses, that sending school will pay for the remedial courses,” said LePage to a roomful of reporters and government officials. “I think that equals the playing field.”

There are at least three states, New Hampshire, Missouri and Oregon, where similar measures have been attempted in recent years, but they have failed in all three instances with the bills not making it out of those states’ legislative committees, according to research by the Bangor Daily News. Proposals from Republican lawmakers that would have required high schools to cover the costs of remedial courses their students needed in college failed in New Hampshire in 2011, in Missouri in 2009 and in Oregon in 2007.

According to Meagan Dorsch, director of public affairs for the National Conference of State Legislatures, no state has ever passed a law similar to the one proposed by LePage.

According to Helen Pelletier, spokeswoman for the Maine Community College System, LePage’s statement about 54 percent of community college students needing remedial courses in math, reading, writing and English as a second language is correct, to a point. She said the 54 percent figure refers only to students coming to community colleges directly out of high school, who comprise about 37 percent of each year’s new enrollments. Over the past three years, that equals about 3,500 out of more than 6,400 students enrolling in community colleges directly out of high school.

For those students, said Pelletier, there is no question that education costs are higher because they need to pay for remedial courses at a cost of about $258 per three-credit class on top of the courses required for their major. Pelletier estimated that remedial courses, which don’t count toward a student’s degree, cost the community college system approximately $1 million a year to administer and cost students another $1 million a year in tuition fees. The bulk of those students, about 45 percent, need remedial work — which means courses that bring them to where they should have been coming out of high school — in mathematics.

LePage also has been criticized for basing his criticisms Wednesday of Maine’s education system on a Harvard University study released earlier this month that found that in 2011, Maine ranked 40th out of 41 participating states in terms of its rate of improvement on a standardized test known as the National Assessment of Educational Progress. That followed years of Maine ranking near the top in the nation on the standardized test.

Dale Douglass, executive director of the Maine School Management Association, in written exchanges with LePage over the past week argued that because Maine’s test scores previously were among the top in the nation and remain in the “top tier,” improving them is harder. He said that’s what led to Maine’s poor ranking in the Harvard study. Iowa and Maine, noted Douglass, were among the highest performing states in the NAEP in 1992 and both scored poorly in the Harvard study. Conversely, Mississippi and Louisiana, which were among the lowest performing in 1992, ranked near the top in the Harvard study based on their achievement progress.

Paul Peterson, professor of government at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government and director of the Program on Education Policy and Governance, said the study did find that in general, states that were performing poorly 20 years ago have shown some of the highest rates of improvement. However, he noted that there are also examples of states, such as New Jersey and Delaware, that had high scores 20 years ago and still have made enough progress to rank near the top in the Harvard study. In other words, Peterson dismissed the argument that doing well to begin with makes progress unachievable.

“Maine is one of those states that hasn’t shown much gain over this period of time,” said Peterson. “I would say this is a wake-up call. There’s no reason why a high-performing state can’t move up.”

Peterson said Friday that Harvard hosted a conference on the study over the past two days and that some themes became apparent among states that ranked high. The most common thread among those states, such as Massachusetts and New Jersey, is some sort of requirement for high school students that they pass a test in or around the tenth grade or not graduate. He said that same requirement is common in high-performing countries around the world, which the Harvard study also addressed.

“That puts the responsibility on the student and the responsibility on the teacher,” said Peterson. “If a student is not passing the test, it becomes very clear that the school is not doing its job.”

Paul Stearns, president of the Maine School Superintendents Association, said he agrees with LePage that there are too many students coming out of Maine high schools who need remedial work but that there are better solutions to the problem than LePage’s proposal that high schools “scratch out a check” for college remedial courses. A better solution might be for students to take placement exams before applying to colleges so local schools can help them where needed, such as through summer courses that already are offered by most schools free of charge.

“It may be that admissions offices at various institutions are admitting students on a marginal basis in an effort to increase their income,” said Stearns, who is the superintendent in MSAD 4 in the Guilford area. “I don’t believe that the solution is to have the local taxpayers pay for a bill that an individual has incurred. The problem is a little more complex and the solution is a little different than the governor is proposing.”

Stearns said he and many other superintendents take issue with LePage’s strong condemnation of Maine’s public schools on Wednesday. LePage described them as “dismal” and “failing” and said Maine students “are looked down upon” when they go elsewhere for jobs or education.

“I disagree with that completely,” said Stearns. “I think that most people in the state who understand the educational system and the teachers and our quality of instruction think those terms are inappropriate. The governor has a tremendous point, but some of the commentary around it and perhaps his solutions, there might be a better way.”

Adrienne Bennett, who is LePage’s communications director, said Friday that LePage wished to backtrack not on his goals for education reform, but on the tone he used Wednesday to deliver them. LePage declined a request for an interview with the Bangor Daily News.

“I talked with him about this this afternoon,” said Bennett. “He clarified his comments and said what he meant was that Maine is a lot less competitive than it was 20 years ago and that this [Harvard University] data proves that. He thinks we’ve lost an edge.”

In his weekly radio address, which is scheduled for broadcast Saturday, LePage used a much softer tone than he did Wednesday.

“What this tells us is that we were doing great 20 years ago, but those standards aren’t doing us any good today — just ask employers,” says LePage in the radio address. “We are on par to be average and I am not a fan of average because it means we’re just as close to the bottom as we are to the top. We can and must do better.”

Christopher Cousins has worked as a journalist in Maine for more than 15 years and covered state government for numerous media organizations before joining the Bangor Daily News in 2009.

Join the Conversation

242 Comments

  1. What about reimbursing the 62% of Maine voters for having a governor who needs remediation ? 

      1. So, my comment was flagged for review. Does that mean it is gone forever? Must have been right to the dirty little heart of the tea baggers. Probably wasn’t obscene. May have been mean. If this is the case, what would keep me from flagging all posts I disagree with. And how do I know why my post was removed (so I’ll be a good poster from now on)

    1. What do you think  Republican Tax Cuts are all about?

      Even when you buy Junk Merchandise at Mardens they Mark it down to move it!!!!!!!!!

    2. Remediation may not be enough. 

      What’s amazing is that he seems to miss the point that the problem is compounded by colleges (2 & 4 yr) that do not enforce enrollment standards!  As stated in the article by others, some schools are willing to accept any student to keep bodies coming in the door. 

      If schools will hold applicants to real standards and reject students who are not prepared, students, parents and schools will quickly get the message and those who truly want to pursue higher education will hits the books. 

      Regardless, what LePage said about Maine kids was insulting.  Maine kids can compete anywhere and he ought to be promoting Maine students and not tearing them down.

      1. I agree.  The community colleges take virtually everybody, and I would say if a 4 year school is taking students who need remedial courses then those colleges need to tighten up their standards.

      2. Unfortunately, many schools now need ever increasing enrollment to keep the cash flowing in. This is especially true regarding student aid, much of which comes from the Fed.

        And this for public and traditional private schools. It’s worse for the for-profit universities.

  2. LePage says we are on par to be average but he’s not a big fan of being average. I believe him. Go apply for a job at Mardens and see if the wages and benefits are average or above.

    1. He’s lacking a certain basic piece of equipment necessary for thinking in the first place.

    2. I’ll bet you’re wrong. If that were the case, one time would humble a smart man. He is like the Duracell bunny- he keeps going, and going, and….

  3. Surprise, surprise!  Ya know, I am beginning to think Lepage and his puppet masters really think we, the people of Maine, are really dumb and dumber.  How awful for our own Gov’nah to treat us this way.  Gives us food for thought. We’ll see in the end: one man or an entire state? Yes indeed, time tells all.

    1. We’ll see beginning in November. Maybe he’s right, and then those who look down on us will be validated.

  4. I guess we Mainers are sure lucky to have Adrienne Bennett around. Just think Maine must be one of the only States whose Governor needs someone on staff for the express purpose of translating what he really said into what she wants us to think he said. First he calls our kids stupid and says Mainers are looked down upon everyplace and now that has somehow been translated into  being a lot less competitive then 20 years ago. 

    1.  I lost all respect for her when she went to work for him. She could have done so much better.

  5. I think that colleges need to not accept people that do not meet entry standards and school systems should provide adult education to see if they can improve their skills to enter college.

    1. I thought that’s how it worked? I know I had to pass an entrance exam and I know people who had to take pre-college coursework to qualify do to low scores in certain areas. I agree we need to ensure HS senior graduate with the proper skill set, but holding the taxpayer responsible for their failing college classes fails to hold the schools themselves responsible for getting it right and fails to account for lack of student motivation when they first get out on their own away from their parents.

      1.  If the teachers and administrators had their compensation on the line you’d see an end to unqualified students graduating.

        1. If you had parents that would help and teach their children,maybe you would see better results, instead of cars, ipads,computers. Give them some homework. It is easy to blame teachers, when the kids tell the teachers a few choice words and do not want to learn, whose fault is that?

        2. If teachers could take the troublemakers out of class and teach the children who want to learn then this would be a moot point.

        3. That would make the kid who comes to school to sell/buy substances change? That would raise the ability levels of kids? I’ll bet it wouldn’t even lower taxes!

          1.  Maybe not, but you’d see an end to unqualified students receiving diplomas. Apparently pride and professionalism isn’t enough to keep the education empire from handing out diplomas for mere seat time.

    2.  As an employment professional we usually suggest adult ed for remedial work vs. college courses for no credit at full price for folks that wish to continue education even though they cannot pass entrance exams. This has worked well for 20+ years I have been doing this.

  6. OK, how about this.  High schools issue a conditional high school diploma.  If the student is required to take remedial courses at the college level, then the high school diploma becomes invalid, and the student returns to his/her high school for another year of high school.  That ought to work.

      1. For once we sort of agree.  I have taught them.  Maybe you have, too.  There were many times when I knew that there was nothing I could do to get certain students to understand.  They were destined to go through life without getting it.

    1. I think that is reasonable. I usually don’t support alternative ideas for education, but I would love to adopt that one. “If you don’t like high school, do well enough to not come back.” You are on to something there.

  7. This is pretty rich coming from a guy who had to have his college entrance exams given to him in French.  Hypocrite.

  8. So the tax saving Governor wants local tax payers to pay the colleges?  Nice going Gov.  
    One solution to the “remedial course work” would be to take course exams that have to be passed to graduate from high school.  It would make far more sense than having high schoolers take the college entrance exam that they now are required to take as juniors – even though that exam would be right on in terms of predicted success in college.

    Many students don’t “mature” while in high school and refuse to do the work required to move into college.  They might get a high enough grade to get a C or D and graduate but still lack the necessary knowledge to take college work.   Paying for that should remain the responsibility of the student. It was, after all, the student who didn’t do the work in the first place.

    While on testing as a topic, it is unfortunate that political candidate don’t have to take an exam to run for office. Just saying Gov, just saying.

    1. Make no mistake, this bufoon’s ALEC agenda is about destroying public ed and teachers.  The teapublikan dream is to make “for profit” education the only game in town.  The cons are deeply invested financially in online schools.  Its all about your money.

      1.  Too true.That way the bible belt idiots can finish ruining this country.Look up the Univ. of Phoenix as one of many.

  9. I wouldn’t want LePage for a father, if he acts in private the way he acts in public.  Nothing but mean, not even any good reason for it.  Just mean.  Spirit-breaking.

  10. This is the same Paul Peterson who did faulty reserach on vouchers. Le Page has a political agenda where the best interest of children have no value. He picked a discredited reseracher who shares a political agenda.
    Lets look at the states where Le Pages ideas have been tried: Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. The net effect in both cases was no improvement in educational outcomes while costs to the taxpayers increased significantly.  
    Le Page needs an education on  education. History, a subject Le Page is probably is not familiar with, demonstrates his plan merits an F.

    1.  The Nation did a great article on the Peterson scam.Much like T, Boone Pickens,he made his pile by questionable means and is now out to screw the middle class and poor.

    2. I thought the Supreme court validated school voucher programs in Cleveland, Milwaukee, Arizona and Florida; and if they don’t work why do parents continue to send their children to voucher subsidized and charter schools?

      Who knows what’s best for the child, you, the government school, or the parent(s)? 

        1. And that is exactly what LePage is tryiing to do thru this ‘Charter School’ nonsense. Segregation thru educational legislation and misdirection. Thankfully Mainer’s are seeing this for what it is.

  11. Private schools could guarantee, via contract, that the students won’t need remedial classes in college.

    What we should do, is fully privatize education, so there will be greater choice, competition, value, and innovation, and much greater efficiency.   Socialist education is not working.

    1. Let’s privatize our socialist military first.  Next, let’s privatize our socialist highways.  Then, let’s privatize our socialist police and fire departments.  We will be competing with Somalia for the most privatized government in the world.  It is sure working out well for them.

    2. Good deal! Now you want private schools? Then you pay for private schools. Let the parents pay the tuition.

      1.  That would be a nice change from those who feel it’s their right to have huge families and get thousands in tax breaks while burdening the system.Meanwhile childless taxpayers and responsible parents get screwed again.

    3. Whoohoo there is that “code word” Socialist again. Unfortunately the writer doesn’t have a clue what it means!!!

    4. Private schoold would guarantee that the rich would get good educations and the poor would get poor educations, if any. 

      Socialist education works well in every other country in Europe, Canada and Japan to mention just a few.  Oh and their students do quite well in college, too.

      Nice

          1.  Say it with me.  “Yes we can!”

            Minor setback?  Use your imagination.  Think of a solution.  That’s what the free enterprise system is about.  And no, the way it is, does not work at all.  It is a disaster.

        1. Like the man from Missouri said, ‘Show me’. Even LePage can’t and he knows the why. That’s why Bowen, in the press conference, had the smarts to keep his mouth shut since even he knew a ‘straight right’ was coming.

    5. Sure, take John Bapst which selects their kids, they will guarantee anything you want. More Koch Bros/Fox News/ Maine  Heritage Club propaganda.

  12. “Politicians use statistics in the same way that a drunk uses lamp-posts for support rather than illumination.” – Andrew Lang Speech. Quoted in Alan L Mackay The Harvest of a Quiet Eye (1977).

    In Mr. LaPage’s case we may need to surround him with lamp posts in order to cast as much light as possible for what is obviously a very dim mind.

  13. Well, this does draw attention to schools who graduate students who have been passed along without the proper education for which the taxpayers have already paid.  Passing or graduating a student who is not proficient in a given subject is committing fraud against the public.  Taxpayers should get the full value of their tax dollar for the education they are paying for the benefit of any student.  Perhaps if the schools had to pay for remedial education at the college level then the school boards would be forced to terminate those responsible for passing or graduating any student who has not been instructed and retained the material which the school is vouching for.  Stating that a student is proficient when he obviously is not is nothing more that theft of the public’s trust and finances.  This may or may not be the way to do it but is certainly does illuminate the fact that some schools are not preparing some students that they claim are ready.

    1. Making them pay for remedial ed classes for failure of pre-graduation test is one thing, making them pay for students who go party at college is a whole different ballgame. The level of motivation is far different at the college level, some kids go with no direction and major in partying, hard to hold anyone but them responsible for their lack of grades. So let’s make students have to pass a pre-gradation test, where it will be a big deal for them if they fail to apply themselves and a big deal to their parents. Once they leave the nest, they must be held accountable for their own actions. 

      1.  I agree with you 100% on that point.  Students who fail to apply themselves early on will fail throughout life as a general rule.  If that is the course that a student wishes to follow then it would be an injustice for the taxpayer to foot the bill or for the student to foot a bill for an alleged education which will quite probably do no one any good except the college instructors who are encouraging participation where success is unlikely.

  14. He almost got it right.  We should require the teachers to return some of their compensation when they fail to do the job they are paid for.  Then you’d quickly see an end to unprepared students receiving diplomas.

    1.  oldmainer should consider that these kids  are perhaps showing up unprepared…the product of disinterested parents, parents that never went to college, didn’t succeed in college back in the day when jobs weren’t so reliant on college, parents expect nothing academically from their kids for 13 years of school and then wonder why college isn’t working for their kids….

      My kids went to college and did just fine, any problems were squarely the fault of myself and my family.

      1.  Congratulations, now you should be able to look down on at least 10 poor people for your diligence and get front row pew in catholic church this week, God is watching you and you are on the short list to become a deity.

      2.  Personal responsibility is really a wonderful thing. If kids show up unprepared and don’t learn passing them is doing them no favors. Instead it provides a false belief that schools are doing a great job since everyone is passing.  The real reason for everyone passes is that to do otherwise would expose the teachers and administrators who are doing a poor job. As long as everyone keeps getting passed not matter how little they learn no one rocks the boat and the paychecks keep on coming.

        1. The fact is, there are course levels in most schools that are not college prep, these are taken by kids of lower ability (not their fault, is it?), lower ambition and kids that are receiving vocational training, such as carpenters and mechanics. These kids aren’t taking Alg 2, advanced math, CP chemistry and physics, they really don’t need it.

          Problem is, when they reach senior year, their plans sometimes change…..these kids will need remedial work. Some of these kids go on to do very good work in college as they mature or face the economic facts of life.

          Not the system’s fault IMO.

    2. Explain how a teacher or teachers should be punished if the school system won’t allow them to flunk students who don’t, won’t or can’t perform?

      1. Won’t allow them to flunk a student???  Then we will allow them to flunk them. If they don’t promote students who are unprepared then they have nothing to worry about. Problem solved. See how easy that was?

    3.  This would be fine IF you could ensure that ALL students come to school from homes that are truly supportive of the schools and send us kids who see the big picture of their future.

      1.  And you are REQUIRED to pass the kids who are unprepared and don’t learn the material?  You are doing them a grave disservice by passing unprepared stuydents.  When they get into the real world and are surprised to find that they actually have to have an education to get a job and that their diploma is worthless they can thank you for not caring enough about them to hold them to some standards.  It’s much easier for the teachers and school administrators to not rock the boat and pass everyone than it is to make sure that a high school diploma means that the student has mastered some skills.

        1.  As I have said before, there is MUCH research that shows retention is usually ineffective.  It may work for some kids.  And oldmainer, I did retain two students this year, mostly because of maturity issues.

        2. When you have stood in my shoes with a parent screaming at me because their little Johnny is not passing my class, you will see how hard it is to be a teacher without parental support.

          I don’t pass kids who are not capable of doing the work, but it takes really big shoulders and a tough mind to deal with the parents sometimes. 

          As you have proven here, teachers are not always supported by the general public.

    1.  Don’t forget that is the result of cheap thoughtless TPers not paying taxes and conservatives bullying school boards with useless junk like creationism.Teach the kids FACTS and watch us keep up with the Asian countries where learning is valued.

        1.  You’re right about that.There’s a lot that could be looked at.We need a smart Gov first though.Looks like we’ll have to wait.

    2.  Cut to the bone?  HA HA HA HA HA HA!!  Man that’s a good one.  The average cost per student in Maine has gone up faster than the rate of inflation for the last 10 years and probably much longer than that. 

      1.  That’s what so scary for the future- it’s still not enough.  Our day is not long enough- for some kids, the school year is not long enough, and districts may struggle to acquire the proper kinds of technology.

        1.  You can’t reason with people like that.I went to my last school board meeting and there was one old bag who wouldn’t shut her mouth.It was obvious she hadn’t educated herself about anything.The teachers and other intelligent people there were horrified.Fortunately she was outvoted.

          1.  We as a society are struggle for awhile figuring out how to let go of 150 years of educational practice and move into the rest of the world.  And how to pay for it.

  15. To Adrienne Bennett:  I don’t know how much they pay you to do this job every day, but whatever that amount is, I’m thinking it isn’t nearly enough.

    1. How about if he tells her what he means FIRST, and then she says it with grace and intelligence? Naw….

  16. I think he only speaks to hear himself lisp some english, while deep inside he is cussing us in his native french language.

  17. I am not sure this is the best idea, however we need to start thinking outside of the box.
    His point is correct. College bound kids should not be taking HS courses in college. 

    1.  They don’t. Colleges are accepting students that for four years of high school never took college-prep classes.

    1. You know, I actually think I could. That nisn’t saying much for me because I think Cheetah could!

  18. I remember when I was in college a few kids that struggled in entry level math courses, to the point that they would fail.  These were not hard math courses, helping a friend on some of that coursework it was pretty basic introductory high school stuff.  Maybe some kids just don’t do well in math but when an introductory math class in college has 4 or 5 kids from the same school struggling with basic algebra in college there is a problem in my opinion.  Making schools with little in their budgets as it is pay for remedial classes may not be the answer, but the schools should know how their students are performing and if they are adequately prepared for college.

    1. Or better yet, maybe the students who wish to enter college be told upfront what they need to succeed in college. Throw the ball back at the student and see if they are willing to run with it.

      1. There is no easy way for something like this to be fixed as it will depend on the educators and student.  I do agree that the student should shoulder the burden as well if it is their lack of work ethic that is the cause of their lack of ability.  When we hear of schools lowering their acceptance standards, that is not helping in this regard either.  But the school should still know how their students are performing seeing as how they do keep records of grades and such, they would have a first hand knowledge of whether or not a student has the requisite knowledge to begin college.  There certainly is no easy fix, but sometimes it may be the learning ability of the student which can’t be helped, it could be a lack of the students work ethic, or it could be the educator (which I don’t personally think is all that rampant). 

  19. LePage should aspire to be average. He is so far below average as a leader that average would be a blessing to this entire state.
    On another note, if students coming out of high school are requiring remedial courses, the parents or the students themselves should pay for those courses. The curriculum provided to the student is, in all cases, more than sufficient to prepare students for post secondary success. If the student is not taking advantage of it when it is “free”, then perhaps he will be more tuned in if it comes out of his own pocket. LePage’s suggestion would create a greater property tax burden, but Mr. NoNewTaxes doesn’t seem to realize this or just doesn’t care. It is also an attempt to reward poor parenting because that is where the problem starts. LePage should keep his pea-brained ideas away from our children – far, far away. Florida comes to mind.

    1. Bingo! You are absolutely correct.

      The problems start in the earliest years of a childs education. If a child is allowed to slip through the system simply because they attended classes, it is a mistake.

      In this artile the idea of testing 10th graders was mentioned as a possible indicator if the children need remedial work before they graduate HS. How about we test 1st graders before the go to 2nd grade? How about we test every grade to see if they are capable of performing at the next grade level? I would bet that you would see student performance rocket ahead if the kids knew that if they didn’t do the work now that they would be left behind their friends. It worked 50 years ago.

      1.  Research shows retention is usually not an effective intervention.  We now have enough data that we can do effective interventions without retaining.  The problem is- it’s not inexpensive-staff needs training, and we simply need a longer day and year.

        1. I have to disagree. It seems that there is entirely too much of this peer thing going on. Will some children be left behind? You bet. For their good. If they want to move on with their friends they have to do the work. All children aren’t created equal, some need another year of maturity to do the work. That should be sorted out in the 1st year or two of schooling. If you push them through before they are ready, they will be lost and each year that loss will be magnified.

          If we continue to allow kids to slip through the system we are not doing them any favors. When they get out into the workforce they need to be prepared for a rude awakening when their employers won’t settle for just getting by. The employers will not hesitate to say bye bye to those who won’t put the effort into their job.

          1.  If you want to argue with years of research- ok.
            I did retain two kids this for a combination maturity/lack of gain.  However, as a kid moves through the school years, retention becomes more self-defeating.  I agree, we need to do something else besides pure social promotion, but are we willing to throw some kids out with the scrap paper?

          2. I am willing to look at the reality that some kids are not going to cut the mustard, so to speak. Not every kid is a born doctor, lawer, scientist, etc. Some are not gifted at all and will strugle their whole life. That is life and reality.

            I do however believe that just because a kid doesn’t become a doctor, lawyer or scientist that they should be pushed through the system and still be considered functionaly illiterate. Unless that child has a real disability there is not reason for the average kid to not learn the basics.

      2.  Yes it did for me from NY it did and if you didn’t meet the grade you don’t go on to the next grade.  For as a parent when a teacher tells me that my child is not doing well that is when I say do not past him to the next grade.  So after that he learn and approve and went on to finish high school and even took lesson in computer tech and he  has the skills as well as his brother.  For our children it is up to the parents to continue to help their children to stay in school and help them when they need help in their studies.   Also it is up to the school to teach the children high school work so that they can go to college.  I have notice when my children went to high school that they were not getting high school work but was continuing to get junior high school work which I find was not helping our children to get high school work that would help them get into college.  The education department should take a trip to New York and visit the schools and see how the children are being taught and I bet they would find that the teaching is different and they make it a challenge for the children to learn that they want to come to school every day to learn different  ideas.  I know for I live in NY and was very luck to have teachers bring new lessen to learn and given the chance to learn them and past the tests.  

         But for Le Page to be  judging of Maine and our kids is wrong let alone the cuts he made to the system which is effecting our children education and if he can’t see that then Maine is in big trouble.   All these so call politician’s who are running for office and telling us what they can do  is nothing but all lies just like  Le Page  told us so he can get into office and look what happen cuts in education, programs etc.   Yes I know the president too, but you have to understand what the last president left him with so you see there are a lot of blame that can go around too.

    2. If LaPage were a charasmatic politician and a good leader, we’d really be in trouble!  Give thanks that he’s a dolt.

    3.  And FL has such a great track record already.Stupid people who can’t read ballots and corrupt R’s.He’ll fit right in.

        1.  OK Frank,  once again the facts.  The test scores have not gone down they simply have not gone up as fast as other states.  Is that good enough? No.  But to fix any problem you have to start with the truth.

  20. Colleges need to stop taking money from students who, twenty years ago, would never have been accepted into their programs.   High schools are preparing our students for college, it’s just that they are now asked to prepare a entire new subset of students who lack the skills to succeed there.  Sorry to be so blunt.

    1.  But this is true.  I don’t think we as a nation have grasped the concept that the world economy has changed, and you can just walk into a good paying job out of high school.

    2. Don’t ever apologize for being blunt, honest and direct. That’s what’s got the educational system in the mess it’s in now. The kid’s need, now more than ever, to be told when they are just not making the grade and what it’s going to take to get there. Does it mean we don’t help them to make it ? No. But it does require the kid’s to be supported, and occasionally given a ‘tap in the butt’, to get them to focus and find that self-respect and initiative that they are going to need to get ahead, regardless if they go to either college, the Service or straight into a business or trade. And that is what LePage is missing by a stellar mile. He seems to think, ala the talking points he’s obviously getting from MHPC and ALEC’ crony, Bowen, that all kid’s can be taught alike since they are ALL alike. Sound familiar ? And that’s what the DOE needs to start working on, not one-size=fit’s-all proposal’s.

  21. I am hoping there is a wake up call in all of this. That we the people do need to have a method of removing rogue government officials through a simple “will of the people” recall petition drive.  Someone should get moving on this and soon, Maine can not afford another T’Bagging, MHPC, Koch snorting, buffalo counting, draft dodging, creationist governor. I am so ashamed to tell people I am from Maine.

    1. There was a movement and petition after LePug was elected.  It was to provide a system of recall in maine. It was shot down by the Republicans before it ever reached debate.  It was presented by Cynthia Dill and had the required signatures.

  22. Before he takes more money from municipalities, how about funding education at the level it’s supposed to be.  As it is, classroom sizes are too large and Ed Techs. are being laid off.   A leader is supposed to see the big picture.  I don’t think LePage is even on the right channel. 

      1. Ask teachers who have to deal with mainstreamed students who have learning disabilities what they need most.   One student can occupy so much of a teacher’s time that others in class suffer because of it.  An Ed Tech. does more than you may realize in keeping a classroom running smoothly.

        1. Its called “Full Inclusion”. The law states that kids with behavioral/emotional (SPED) problems have the right to be in the same class as with regular ed kids. Public schools must comply with this law. Private schools don’t have to.. They get to cherrypick their students which is why people think their scores are better. Try leveling the playing field and then see if private schools do better than public schools.

  23. ‘Adrienne Bennett, who is LePage’s communications director, said Friday that LePage wished to backtrack not on his goals for education reform, but on the tone he used Wednesday to deliver them.’ First- that’s the only TONE this governor knows how to use and Second-I wish he back track all the way back to Florida.

  24. I wonder how many remedial courses the Gov’s girls needed down in Florida….oh, wait, they were Florida residents! 

    I think an exit exam like the NY Regents or the Massachusetts assessment is what is needed, kids will prepare for an exit exam for four years and graduate with something besides a generic diploma. Teachers would have something a little stronger than the old adage that you’ll need to know this in  college (when the kids find out that colleges accept most anyone that can pay).

    1. Maine’s liberal Democrats loved Learning Results and undermined its requirement to base a diploma on attaining them; and that removed most of the motivation by Students to take the MEA’s seriously. …why bother, if you get the diploma for just showing up?

      It’s disappointing that despite all the attention Democrats give to education, it takes a Republican to put real ‘teeth’ into meaningful school reforms. 

      1. Teeth? Heh, this buffoon in a suit can’t reform his own mouth from embarrassing himself and us Mainers on a weekly basis. He spews lies and made up “facts” and leads by example: giving sweetheart jobs to his unqualiied relatives. If you are a teapublikan, what’s not to like?

  25. One of the most ridiculous ideas I’ve ever heard.  When those same students can stand before you and say they gave high school their best effort (academics, not extra curricular) and the parents can stand beside them and say the same thing, only then should we talk about a school paying for remedial college classes.

  26. great idea imo,, it’s about time teachers took some responsibility. now maybe they’ll focus on what really matters instead of trying to influence the young on issue’s that have no worth, such as ssm and other baloney like not keeping score in sports. great idea mr. lepage!

      1. ummmm, no i didn’t. and,, i’ve raised 2 very good citizen type kids, one is a very successful self employed man and the other is as well, but employed by a good firm.   i’ve been self employed for 25 plus yrs. my customers get the best in treatment and i get repeat business on a constant basis.  you choose to judge because of the way i type? or do you just feel your above everyone at all times? funny how the internet is a fertilizer for ball growth, knowing full well it would never happen without it.. if my opinion bothers you, skip over it and keep your judgments to yourself,, or at least to  what you have a clue about 

        1. Hey, you don’t like my response to your post, fine.  Don’t post here on a public forum if you can’t take feedback.  You made a general, broad statement about teachers trying to influence students on matters that have no worth:  to whit, ssm and not keeping score in sports.  (Neither of which has anything to do with the topic at hand.)   I disagree with that assumption.  I don’t think your statement is true.   When’s the last time you’ve been in a classroom?  It struck me that you must have dropped out of school at an early age because your post lacked basic grammar skills (which is on topic) and just lashed out blindly at teachers in general when you, in fact, don’t really know.  I can comment on any post here that I feel like commenting on.   Your reply to me about being successful has not one thing to do with you original post about teachers pushing their personnal agendas on to students.  I commend you on raising a family.

          1. lmao!!!! does it really matter when i was last in a classroom? try 36 yrs ago. i may point out the fact that in the school district i pay taxes in,, it’s a joke! senior’s that can’t read, spell or even answer a phone correctly. they probably couldn’t tell time if it wasn’t for digital.. my grammar bothers you? with all the useless lazy young folks in society? and my grammar bother’s you!! lmao!  i stated an opinion that it’s time for accountability in the teaching profession, that’s all. it’s high time and long overdue. i’m not grouping every teacher in one lump, they, or you know who they are. and yes, you may comment on any post you like, you don’t have the right to judge someone because their grammar isn’t up to your standards. obviously mine is good enough for you to read and get the jist of it. i’d be very surprised if in your town 70 cents of every tax dollar goes to a school system, and if it does, i bet they didn’t just lose out of the blue over a million dollars, then tried to sweep it under the rug. accountability should be demanded not wished for.

    1. You don’t  appear to have any knowledge about education, schools, curriculum or teachers. You are simply parroting what you have read or heard from the loonycon media.  

      The purpose of education is teach people to think for themselves so they do not have to rely on demagogues and ideologues like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin Fox News,  Breitbart,  Vision to America and Focus on the Family to do their thinking for you.

  27. There is no creative thought in the LaPudge administration, so he copies a plan that hasn’t worked else where.  Is this how he got through his education…copying from others and presenting the results as his….That’s refereed to as  Plagiarism.

  28. The poor have to take personnal responsibility for their lives but students who need remedial work can blame their teachers?

  29. Unfortunately the governor is correct. The taxpayer is paying a lot to educate our kids and they are not getting their moneys worth. 

  30. The Governor needs to come to the realization that punitive measures are not always the best ways to make substantive change.  Public schools have  different dynamics than one of his Marden’s stores do.

    1. Do not forget who provided the 42 years of Democratic control –  the Maine voters.  Now, the appropriate question is to ask – WHY?   I think I know the answer – too many LePage types ran for governor.

    2. Please stop writing ignorant things with no basis in reality. Chokehold? 42 years? Really? 

      I guess you must have forgotten that during this period Maine’s governors included Jock McKernan, a Republican, who served eight years,  James Longley, a Democratic turncoat who served four years as an independent, and, of course, Angus King, merely an opportunist masquerading as an independent, who largely behaved like a Republican for eight years. 

      That’s 20 of your 42 years that seem to have slipped your mind. Before you spout off again in such ignorant fashion, perhaps you should pay less attention to the sound bites of the Maine Tea Party and more to simple realities

  31. His tone does not bother me at all. It is not nearly as insulting and child like as the elite posters that bash him here.

  32. First the governor said everybody needs Voc school. Who will pay for that look in the mirror.Now the Gov. Said they all need college and who will pay back to the mirror……..I am sure the governor knows about dine and dash

  33. LePage is just spouting off Koch Brothers stuff that you here from those stiffs in the Maine Heritage Policy Club, as if they represent anyone except the billionaire oil tycoon brothers that pay all of their bills. Lord, two more years of those guys getting headlines day after day….

  34. It looks like some of our state colleges and probably all of our community colleges have pretty nearly open admissions and admit just about anyone.  I know they admit students who by any measure look like they are more likely to fail than to succeed.  I have seen it first hand.  But I would guess that it is part of  those colleges’ mission.  They admit students who clearly have done very poorly in high school.  Maybe, though, a 19 year-old will have developed some maturity and take his or her education more seriously where he or she had been too immature as a 15 year-old.  In this country we are wealthy enough to give anyone a chance to succeed at college study and rightfully so.

    But I think the students are responsible for paying for their “misspent” youth.  I am certain that the school’s have done their part.  I know of no teacher whose attitude is, “I know this, but I am keeping it to myself.  I’m not letting you in on it.”  There is the old saying, “You can lead a horse to water…”

  35. there’s an old saying, you get out of something as much as you put into it. that is the case with schools. a student, no matter what state they live in, will achieve in school a level relative to the amount of effort he or she puts into it with the help of parents.
    realistically, if the state were to go after a school for a students need for remidial college work, how exactly would the state be able to prove it was the school fault, Mr LePage’s plan does nothing but fire up some small group of people wanting to blame schools and teachers for all the woes in the world, and it invites lots of suits against the state.
    Even worse is the absolute lie Mr lePage told in his news conference, there is no truth, not one ounce, that any college in the US requires additional tests for entrance by Maine students.
    One thing, above all, that we as citizens should expect of all of our elected officials, is honesty. While we can argue his politics, policies and methods till we are blue in our faces, there is no question that Mr LePage has lied, over and over and over again to the people of Maine. We all should be outraged.

  36. I had to take remedial courses when I enrolled at the University of Maine Augusta and I was the one paying for those courses not the University. Why should school districts pay for courses that the student is already paying for? Oh and I did not get my public education in Maine.

  37. I have to weigh in on this. Where does Governor LePage expect the sending schools to get the money he proposes they pay towards remedial college courses? Why, it will come from the pockets of us taxpayers of course. Governor LePage is either for higher taxes or he isn’t. He needs to take one position and hold steady on it throughout his administration. 

  38. This man is fighting the good fight.    There is no benefit to him to have rotten eggs thrown at him for divulging the fact that our students have lost ground in the last twenty years.   Not only have we not gained any ground but we have dropped from fourth to twelfth.   This is not good and shows that things have to change or we will keep right on dropping.  Instead of bashing this man for having the courage to make this known, we should be applauding him for trying to find solutions.   This is not a pleasant or easy job for him.    Let’s all work together to bring all our students back up to where they used to be.    This is not as hard as it sounds.   If we get the right teaching of reading strategies in place students  will be able to do well in everything.  In this article Harvard spokesman supports the governor’s assessment.  Let’s all work together to support change for the benefit of our children.   If we can get our children reading successfully there will be no remediation needed at the college level where clearly there is today.  

    1. Good fight?  Why make it a fight at all?  LePage is by nature combative when he should be leading.
      You are aware of learning and reading difficulties and dyslexia aren’t you?  I’ve known some very smart kids who got Cs because of learning difficulties but did go to college (often by taking exams with longer times) and eventually blossomed.  Symptomatic of “Every child Left Behind” and having all students perfect.

      1. The only thing the little king wants is to end public education and bring in for-profit schools which are owned by his ALEC handlers. Privatization of your education rax dollars and busting unions is their plan and they could care less about what is best for your kids. Its all about getting their hands on your money. The “new” face of education will be your kid sitting at home with a laptop “attending” their online schools. No real teachers anymore. No real schools. On top of this, your taxes will go up, up, up to pay for the new virtual “schools”. Don’t believe me? Visit the ALEC website for their plan.

      2.  I have an extensive background  in this area .and understand all this in depth.   I also know that many children are not learning to read due to not getting a good background in phonics and instead  a heavy reliance on “whole language” to the exclusion of phonics instruction  and there is nothing wrong with these children.   Thus, the  significant drop in achievement.  There should be no fight provided there is an openness to change for the welfare of the children.

        1.  You are correct that there is a need for all students to be provided a strong foundation in Reading.  Also that the “Whole Language” movement (in practice language experience) has not been successful.  Research shows that for many students and particularly those without a rich home language/literacy environment a phonics based direct instruction is most beneficial.  However you are wrong when you claim a “significant drop in achievement. ”  If you recheck the data from the Harvard study and elsewhere you will find that Maine student achievement is in fact up over the past 20 years.  It simply has not increased as rapidly as the other states.  Is this ok? No.  But neither is misrepresenting reality as the Governor does consistently and you do with that statement.  As for fighting the good fight (actually a biblical reference), it never includes the telling of lies or the intentional insulting of others.  So no the Governor is not fighting the good fight.  To give you a more direct biblical reference ” “You serpent’s
          brood, how can you say anything good out of your evil
          hearts? For a man’s words depend on what fills his heart.
          A good man gives out good – from the goodness stored in
          his heart; a bad man gives out evil – from his store of
          evil. I tell you that men will have to answer at the day
          of judgment for every careless word they utter – for it
          is your words that will acquit you, and your words that
          will condemn you.” 

  39. so he cuts as much funding to schools as he can, makes sure the only thing the students learn is how to pass a state test and then wonders why students struggle in college.
    Does this guy ever think any idea all the way through?

    1. Damn the cholesterol!  Get the Governor another plate of bacon triple cheeseburgers!  

      1. I didn’t flag it but I am sure it is because the truth hurt the minority of the readers of this website, despite nothing wrong with your comment, the BDN isn’t going to just put it back either. They have a horrible method of controlling comments.

  40. When I moved to this state I had already graduated high school. My brothers and sisters where in various stages of high school. The books they were bringing home for senior classes were the same identical books that I had in grades 6 and 7. Coming in from a different state at that time made it very apparent how far behind the schools up here are.

    1. My stepdaughter moved here six years ago at the beginning of her sophomore year.  She was massively behind our students.  My husband and I had to sit with her weekly to help get her through the material.  I really don’t think she was caught up until the middle of senior year.  People need to realize that much of this data is localized.  It’s all about location, location, location.  However LePage refuses to give credit where it is due.  Instead, he doles out insults, degrades an honorable profession, and makes enemies faster that lightning.  It really is a shame that we have a governor (and I use that term loosely) who is a pure bully.  It is awfully hard to tell students not to bully when an example of one sits on the front page of our paper on a weekly basis.

    2.  So mAineAc,
             in 6th and 7th grade you were studying trigonometry and calculus and reading Moby Dick and doing Force Vector analysis  in physics or alternatively your brothers and sisters were in remedial or low level courses during their high school years.   By the way perhaps your high school should have to pay for some remedial coursework for you.  It is not “My brothers and sisters where in various…”,  it is  …and sisters were in various…”
            In reality my guess is neither of the alternatives stated above are the case, but instead the truth is likely that your entire post is complete hogwash.

  41. Laying aside the silly notions that students have a responsibility to learn the material presented to them and colleges have a responsibility to screen applicants, I cannot fathom a dumber idea!

    Precisely where does Mr. Lepage think this money is going to come from?  If remedial college classes have to be funded by high schools, wouldn’t that cut into the resources available to students currently enrolled in public schools? [insert snowball effect here]  If we follow his plan, high school standards would fall even lower OR we’d have to raise taxes to cover the costs.  Either way, public education and tax payers would suffer.  Perhaps Mr. Lepage should go back and do his own homework.

  42. Status quo and the democrats of the last 30 years has created this mess,but instead of trying to change it lets just stay the same course.
    Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results = idiocy=democrats plan.

    1. I’ll refrain from generating an equivalent set of equations for Rs but I won’t stoop to stereotyping.

    2. Your statement is without thought or research. The last thirty years gave us eight years of Reagan, four years of Bush senior, and eight years of Bush Jr for a grand total of twenty years under Republican rule. You must be part of the educational problem.

  43. The Governor certainly knows how to snap people out of their complacency!  Smacking smug liberal elitists on the head with a Harvard study was brilliant! 

    The Governor is focused not on the elite’s children but those at the bottom of the school system who aren’t proficient, are at risk, and for whom a lot of NCLB money may have been wasted on ineffective remediation. 

    The problem of remediation at the college level is a national one—just look up the origin of  Jeb Bush’s reforms in Florida and the finding that there was  perpetual student ‘class’ who never graduated and kept switching majors and getting one  ‘student loan’ after another. I believe the BDN published a story about the revolt of some faculty at Orono over the poor academic prep. of incoming students. 

    Using the NAEP’s is full of flaws, since it is possible to rig the selection system so only progressive schools in relatively affluent areas are selected—only about 20% of students at a given grade level 4th & 8th are tested. There is plenty of anecdotal information on how these schools will prep. their students a week before the tests. 

    This is different from the SAT’s where close to 100% of students are tested. …As we should all know by now, Maine’s public school scores are now 38th in the Nation; and have fallen well below Mean:

    National READING score in 2011 was 497; Maine’s was 469; and Mass. was 513!
    National MATH score in 2011 was 514; Maine’s was 469, and Mass. was 527!
    National WRITING score was 489, Maine’s was 453, and Mass. was 509!

    Debate rages over whether these are fair comparisons, but if you roll the clock back  to 1998 the last year of VERBAL and MATH scores and when only a small percentage of Maine’s best students took the SAT’s you’ll find slightly better comparisons:

    National VERBAL score in 1998 was 505; Maine’s was 504.
    National MATH score in 1998 was 512; Maine’s was  501.

    Even then the Mean(avg) scores for Maine were below the National average. It was predicted that going to 100% participation would lower the averages, and they did, but Maine was below average to begin with when only the ‘best’ students took the test.  The current scores look even worse when you compare the ‘White’ scores of Maine—nearly 93% of the test takers were White; with white scores for the rest of the nation or for Mass. and N.H.

    There is plenty of evidence, facts and expert opinion to back up Governor LePage’s views; but questions remain over which reforms will have the biggest impact and where.

    1. “The Governor is focused not on the elite’s children but those at the bottom of the school system who aren’t proficient, are at risk…….”

      LePage  is pushing  hard for charter schools, on-line education and vouchers  that best serve children whose parents  have the time, energy, money  and skills to devote great attention to their kids education.  

      At the same time the governor is advocating to defund the  public education that best serves children with parents or parent working two jobs to stay afloat,  yanking  the safety neT out from under poor  families,  denying health insurance and services to poor children and making snide remarks about how lazy and undeserving the poor are.

      You are fooling yourself if you think LePage gives a  flying fig for children at risk.  He  has a laser like focus on making education, health, jobs and life in general a lot harder for kids on the bottom.

      1. You need to pay attention to the Facts. 

        The only children attending voucher schools are poor and largely minority.

        The only children attending charter schools are in failing schools and are largely from poor and minority neighborhoods.

        So when the governor advocates these reforms be adopted in Maine, the main beneficiaries are poor parents and their children.

        I don’t see any facts to support your contention that the Governor is ‘yanking out a safety net’ from under poor families; nor is advocating reducing education any more than other government programs to balance the government. 

        In case you haven’t noticed, he’s come from being a homeless teen who knows poverty and living on the street to being a successful person, and that’s a stronger background than most of people in Augusta know about.

        …Until you’ve walked in his shoes, I suggest you stop calling him vile names. 

        1. Vile names?     You perhaps need to pay attention to your reading skills.   Try again.   There are no names called.   

          1.  You must be reffering to slurs and inuendos like these

            “I’d laugh at them, the idiots.”Buying a Maine daily newspaper is like paying someone to lie to you
            So the worst case is some women may have little beards”Tell them to kiss my buttYou must buy health insurance or pay the new Gestapo — the IRS
            John, You are a bald face liar and cheat! Character eludes you
            “Maybe the IRS is not quite as bad — yet.”

            As I am sure you are aware these are all quotes of governor Lepage.  This of course is only a brief sampling quickly available on the internet but it does show the nature of the man.  I do not hate governor Lepage.  I think many of his policies are wrong headed and that he is rash, thoughtless and insensitive in his speech and his conduct.  If I have any personal feeling for the Governor it is pity.  It must be a sad existence to be filled with such impotent anger and frustration. 

          2. I’ll play. He’s an ignorant, self-serving, embarrassing, nepotonistic, crude, abusive bully. Now….what have I said is untrue? How has he portrayed our state? If you agree with his rants that we as Maine citizens are lazy, stupid and our kids are looked down upon, then maybe you and he should move……hopefully soon.

        2. “The only children attending charter schools are in failing schools and are largely from poor and minority neighborhoods.The only children attending voucher schools are poor and largely minority.”If you would read something  more than the  ALEC and Heritage propaganda you would find that on-line, charter and voucher schools cater mostly to the well off and well educated.   ALEC and other conservative groups are very interested in privatizing education.   Think it through.  Who benefits most from privatizing  education?   It is not those at the bottom and those at risk.   

    2. Not too many front pages ago, Governor LePage urged Maine to look at other, higher performing, states for ideas for improvement.  You bring up Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, for comparison.  Should Maine then not look to that bastion of liberalism for some guidance?  I kind of think Governor LePage would rather go to Florida on a fact-finding mission.

      1. When the Democrats were finally embarrassed by the facts about their poor quality public schools, and especially the sorry state of their system of teachers’ colleges; and had a lot of this delivered in a Report by the former CEO of IBM, they were forced to adopt reforms…and they made a huge difference. 

        Other states have embraced the reforms and philosophy behind NCLB; while Maine attempted to weasel out of full compliance—-remember Mike Brennan championing the liberal state challenges to NCLB in a court case that was laughed out of the last appeals court? 

        Guess which states have demonstrated gains in their public schools?

        And nearly all of them are under Republican leadership, inspired by the success story in Florida under Jeb Bush and continued by the current head of the Education Dept. who btw is an African-American.

        The other thing is that Maine is always grouped with other New England States, so if Mass. or New Hampshire does something that works, we have to pay attention to it. 

  44. Does BDN HAVE to keep showing a photo of the governor??? It scares the kids and the dog won’t stop barking…

  45.  “LePage wished to backtrack not on his goals for education reform, but
    on the tone he used Wednesday to deliver them. LePage declined a
    request for an interview with the Bangor Daily News.
    “I talked with him about this this afternoon,” said Bennett. “He
    clarified his comments and said what he meant was that Maine is a lot
    less competitive than it was 20 years ago and that this [Harvard
    University] data proves that. He thinks we’ve lost an edge.”

    What he said was so far from her translation that it isn’t even funny.  He said that our education system is dismal and stagnant and that our children are looked down upon by other states.  That was a horrible statement to say and no backtracking or clarification by someone else is going to change the way that was said.

    When is LePage going to realize that he needs to THINK before he speaks?  He is continually hurting more and more people with his words, yet then he “apologizes” and thinks it will be okay?

    I do not support him and cannot wait for his term to be over.

    1. Never will learn.  He does it on purpose. This doesn’t gain him one darn vote, and may bring him to the attention of the national tea partiers. He may be shooting for higher office. Nice going, Mainers. No wonder we are looked down on by people in other states!

  46. I’m pretty sure that this gov. is not trying to win a popularity contest..clearly he would not do so well .. at least with those who are fans of the BDN… but even you, must see that he is working to try and better the state and it’s citizens.. you liely will not agree with his methods and certainly not with his style or delivery.. but it’s hard to argue that he isn’t trying to increase productivity… it might even help if some of you were more supportive of at least some of his ideas.. I know it’s a hard pill to swallow.. heck i don’t even live in Maine anymore and I can see and hear the disgust that many of you have for this man. but put that aside, schools are important.. performance of the teachers is important.. results is mostly what matters.. and college admission standards might be too low.. but the teachers need to know who is doing what and who needs help along the way.. it’s there that attention might be more fruitfull…………………..

    1. I think he’s working to get a cushy job in ALECK or one of those other right wing nut factories after his term. Keep your eye on that.

  47. The Gov needs to read the book “Closing the Global Achievement Gap” to get a better idea of what we need to do, instead of bullying.  Would he be in favor of state subsidized child care?  That’s what Finland has!

    1. Cherry picking Finnish education to make a point is foolish, since there are many substantial differences in both students, the schools and the faculty.

      Here’s a few differences to be included in a total change over to a Finnish system:

      >>start school at age 7;

      >>they rarely take exams or do homework until into their teens;

      >>There is only one mandatory standardized test taken when a student is 16;

      >>The population is very homogeneous..nearly no minorities and the difference
      between the weakest and strongest students is smallest in the world:

      >>All learners are taught in the same classroom;

      >>Finland spends about 30% LESS per student than in the U.S.;

      >>66 % go on to college and 93% graduate from high school;

      >>43 % of their high school students go to vocational schools;

      >>Elementary school students have 75 min.of recess a day;

      >>Teachers only spend 4 hrs. a day in the classroom, & 2 hrs. weekly for professional development;

      >>All teachers must have a masters degree, which is fully subsidized, and only the top ten percent of graduates are selected;

      >>Avg. starting salary was $29,000 in 2008 vs. $36,000 in the U.S.

      >>Teachers have the same status as doctors and lawyers

      >>While 95% of the teachers are in a union; the role of the union is very different, for example it is not affiliated with any political party and negotiates nationally for regional contracts and helping negotiate policies that are turned into state law, such as what the school curriculum looks like, so those matters don’t have to be worked out in separate schools or cities.

      Enviable?? Maine could be a good place to set up a Finnish style charter school and see how well their system works when transferred to the U.S.

      1. A subsidized Masters degree costs about $20,000.   Teachers have the same status as doctors and lawyers in Finland because they are paid about the same.   How do you expect to do the above by cutting education funding by 30% as you claim they have in Finland?

      2. Maine teacher unions are forbidden by law to negotiate policy. They can only negotiate the impact of policy on their members.

  48. Ummmmm so should LePage’s high school have paid for him to learn English once he was in college so he didn’t need to have remedial assistance understanding English because he spoke French??  Yeah,  I don’t think so.

  49. Yesterday a screamer headline replete with picture unleashed a torrent of abuse about schools, students and teachers from Le Page.

    And, as can be expected, today three quarters of the way down in the story, Le Page’s flak, Adrienne Bennett, stuck another “what he meant to say” Band Aid on her boss’s latest blow-up.

    Why didn’t the BDN’s copy editor  box her Emergency comment and stick it between the second and third paragraphs?

    Le Page  sounds a lot like Romney:  “I can’t remember what I said exactly, or, how I said it. I do however, stand by whatever I said.”  

    Flip and Flop, both wearing the same pair of shower sandals.

    Le Page has only to open his jaws and start snapping at anything, and the media gives it top of the page play.  The counterpoints  are usually buried next to the last paragraphs.   His, “I didn’t really apologize” follows the next day as his anger swells for his next assault. 

    In spite of that, and his bewildered thinking, it was real good to read about Mainer Betty Weidner of Corea, and her fantastic and successful goal to help fellow Mainers by getting hospitals to install blood filtering machines, to save bone marrow transplant patients from travelling to Boston.   Despite the cost being too high for hospitals, Betty overcame that by raising the money and getting Cancer Care of Maine to run it.

    Real happy that the Belfast Rowing Crew pulled hard to win the 20-mile Blackburn Challenge. An exemplary explanation  of the Harvard Test Scores by Mark Sschwartz Ph.d.  And, also  entrepreneur Rich Kimball’s skills and showmanship.  And, how about Brewer school student Jacob Caron winning the Video Festival Grand Prize?

    Another great yarn about Lobsterman Jason Joyce on how lobstermen should expand their consumer base.  And, how about our former Marines of Millinocket, yomping  2,180 miles and raising $31 grand to help help fellow servicemen suffering from wounds? 

    The BDN buries a lot of the good stuff without page one  teasers getting  rack customers to buy it. 

    After two years of Le Page – he’s just old hat.  Nothing he says has meaning, feeling, or, justification.  He’s just a mean, old, miserable man, still enslaved by an equally miserable childhood, that he is unable to shake.   His obsessive whining and pot shots are loved by the media. 

    Reporter Cousins was taking a risk asking this man for an interview. He’s not worth wasting your time.

  50. It is a high school’s fault that the colleges accept these underperforming students?  How about more screening of applicants?

  51. Except the part about how remedial courses deal with material that should have been learned in grade school!

  52. What I see from all of LaPage’s rants is that he doesn’t like anything about Maine, so why doesn’t he leave Maine??  If you don’t like being in a state that is so bad LEAVE!!

    1. Probably can’t, he’s a product of Maine schools and as such (using his logic?) no one would take him.

  53. I went back to college at the age of 54. After being out of school for 36 years and having been discouraged from enrolling in truly challenging courses, such as college prep English and Algebra, when I was in high school (girls didn’t need those courses), it was necessary that I first enroll in an amazing on campus program for non traditional incoming students who needed remedial studies to bring us up to mainstream entrance standards. I’m curious…..under LePage’s plan to fix the problem of students who need this remedial assistance, which school does he plan to penalize after 36 years? BTW, because of this wonderful program and the assistance I received while attending those remedial classes, I was able to matriculate into mainstream university classes with ease. I earned a BLS in 2002 with Honors. Perhaps the program that assisted me over that hurdle should be rewarded instead of penalizing a school district that failed 36 years ago….not because of any inability to instruct, but because of cultural shortcomings. I have to wonder how long it has been since LePage has bothered to actually research the public school curriculum to find out if it is the schools who are failing our children or if it is the mandates placed on instruction by government bodies that are failing the schools?

    1. Careful Barb. You’re making the case for serious, practical education reform here, something that Paulie and Company don’t want since it would cut into their ‘Charter School’ Plan of ‘legally’segrgating the school’s thru the use of State educational funding. And we all know how Paulie reacts to a party crasher ! That’s when Bowen comes out and starts whining about ‘ineffective teacher’s’ and lazy parent’s. Come on Steve, make that comment, especially when we have 100 days to the election. Mainer’s have a memory and these sniveling comment’s about Maine parent’s are gonna be remembered for a lot longer than that !

  54. Ready to change Maine’s public elementary school curriculum to Finland’s?

    Here’s more from the Smithsonian white paper on Finland’s success:

    Besides Finnish, math and science, the first graders take music, art, sports, religion and textile handcrafts. English begins in third grade, Swedish in fourth. By fifth grade the children have added biology, geography, history, physics and chemistry.

    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz21wh7fH00

    1. So whose religion would you like to see taught in our schools.   Finland is a homogeneous population there would be no quarrel over a religious subject. 

  55. This is great the gov. talks about accountability where is his and the lawmakers?There is none in either job.The middle class taxpayer takes it on the chin and they oh well that didnt work lets try something else and have the taxpayer fund our plan again and it goes on and on  

  56. Someone helped LePage to get  special permission to take the SAT’s in French so he could get to college.  Why is  he now  so reluctant to see others get  help.

  57. While LePage’s idea about reimbursement is on the short side of ridiculous, he does make a vaild point. Maine’s student’s in the public education and University system are being shortchanged. While touted as one way to a better future, these same student’s are being shortchanged in the System by the System itself offering ‘Mickey Mouse’ course’s as elective’s for degree completion instead of concentrating on core-level course’s that are actually required for the 200 thru 400 series course’s to be successfully completed. Note I said successfully completed, not just passed. Pass / Fail is a useless tool to determine academic credit as it does not accurately measure a student’s comprehension and ability to use the course’s information. These ‘Mickey Mouse’ course’s are just that as far as pass / fail goes. The importance of a Grade Point Average in the real world has been seemingly dismissed as useless measure of achievement and potential. It’s time that this was turned around and seen, and used, as a means of both evaluating the student’s comprehension of the material but also as a means of, thru ‘mean averaging’ their teacher’s effectiveness and using it as 1, and NOTE, 1, means of determining their tenure. If a GPA isn’t that important, then someone please show me why the 3 Service Academy’s still use it to determine ranking’s and career potential when it comes the to the Service’s specific Branch Assignment ? The same can be said of Law School’s and Medical School’s.

    A more practical, and long-term, educational revision is called for both in the public educational system but also in the University System as well. And that includes the Community College System also. The University System, and the Community College’s, need to start, now, directing their course’s to both a more practical academic, but also the business, side of education since the University System’s were, for the most part, Land Grant University’s geared toward the State’s being able to depend on the University as a source of research and development for the State’s business’s and agricultural sector’s. And make the required passing grade a lot tougher than a simple 2.0 out of a 4.0 grading scale. Simply passing is no longer enough to compete in the economy, at whatever level or in whatever industry.

  58. Try reading comprehension….status is not equivalent to pay; maybe in your materialistic secular society, but not in Finland. 

    p.s.  I’m only pointing out some of the differences between Finland’s schools and Maine’s.Another poster asserted they were better.

  59. If a college student needs remedial education, than the college needs to seriously reexamine at its admission requirements.

  60. We need to change funding of schools in MAINE. Instead of property taxes, I feel we need a one percent sales tax, and any towns in a RSU would collect that one percent from those towns that are members . It would be a year round steady income. Reading aloud should be required in high school, remove algebra. Make high school three years, with the last year, the senior year student would take college courses or OJT in the community.

  61. Perhaps, it is the parents of the students who need to take remedial courses who should be asking for a tax rebate from their towns for not teaching their children.  They are the ones, along with their children, who will be paying for the remedial courses in college.  Of course they will have to make an honest assessment of what the kids were doing in high school to determine primary responsibility.

    Some of the remedial students could do public service at their high schools telling the students that if they mess around and waste the free education they are being given, they will have to pay for it should they decide to make something of their lives.  

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