Earlier this month, Jerry Seinfeld was doing an interview on camera at the David Lynch Foundation’s National Night of Laughter and Song. The singer Kesha interrupted the interview and asked for a hug. Here’s a transcript of what happened:
Kesha (suddenly appearing on camera and moving closer to Seinfeld): “I love you so much.”
Seinfeld: “Oh, thanks.”
Kesha (with arms outstretched and moving closer): “Can I give you a hug?”
Seinfeld (backing away): “No thanks.”
Kesha (now touching his arm): “Please?”
Seinfeld: “No thanks.”
Kesha (getting even closer and moving in to hug): “A little one.”
Seinfeld (actually stepping away from Kesha and putting up his hand): “Yeah, no thanks.”
[Kesha fake cries and then walks away]
CNN called the moment “cringe-worthy.” USA Today said that Seinfeld “painfully rejected Kesha.” The UK’s NME called it brutal. TMZ likened the encounter and Seinfeld’s reaction to the classic Seinfeld episode with the Soup Nazi: “No hug for you!” Other outlets called it “awkward.”
But let’s look at the transcript again, and imagine the roles reversed:
Man (moving into woman’s space): “I love you so much.”
Woman: “Oh, thanks.”
Man (with arms outstretched and moving closer): “Can I give you a hug?”
Woman (backing away): “No thanks.”
Man (now touching her arm): “Please?”
Woman: “No thanks.”
Man (getting even closer and moving in to hug): “A little one.”
Woman (actually stepping away and putting up hand): “Yeah, no thanks.”
[Man fake cries and then walks away]
What would the headlines be then? What would people say? Whose side would they be on? My guess: people would be outraged. The man would be called a bully and harasser. We’d be having conversations about personal space and respect for the word “no.” There would be articles about what mothers should do to make sure their boys don’t grow up and behave that way.
But in this real life moment, it wasn’t a man who asked for and then moved in (uninvited) for a hug. It was a woman. And so Seinfeld’s response is described as “brutal,” “awkward,” and “painful.” And now, Seinfeld is on a semi-apology tour over the whole thing.
Speaking to Extra TV, Seinfeld said, “I’m 63, I don’t know every pop star … I don’t know everyone.” He also explained that he’s not a hugger, especially with total strangers. “[I]n my reality,” he said, “I don’t hug a total stranger. I have to meet someone, say hello. I gotta start somewhere.” Then he jokingly said he had “a borderline harassment case here.”
It wouldn’t be a joke if the roles were reversed.
As a mother to three boys, this whole interaction and the media surrounding it bothered me. When my boys were little, I was careful about making sure they never had to hug anyone. Not even family. I tried to show them by example how to respect personal space. At playgroups, I never said, “Give your friends hugs goodbye.” And as the boys got older, I told them that high-fiving relatives or shaking their hand was a definite option if they, like Seinfeld, aren’t huggers.
I did this because it’s important to me that my boys grow up to be respectful and kind to others. I’m also aware of news stories about unwanted advances toward women and that mothers of sons should raise their boys to respect boundaries. So it confuses me that Seinfeld is ridiculed and mocked for his hug denial. And it confuses me even more that Kesha became the victim who was “brutally” and “painfully” rejected.
I understand that most of the time it is a woman who is harassed, and that’s why we focus on educating young boys. But for all the times when the idea of gender is discarded, shouldn’t it be here, too? Shouldn’t boundaries be gender-neutral? Can’t a man reject a woman’s hug just as much as a woman can reject his? And if a woman violates a man’s personal space, should we really treat her like a “victim” because he pulled away?
In our rush to condemn what sometimes feels like “all boys,” have we forgotten that boys have boundaries, too?
I’ll never forget the time my youngest son came to me and said a couple of girls were singing a song at him. It went like this:
Girls go to college to get more knowledge.
Boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider.
My son wasn’t hurt, but he was very confused.
“Did you tell the girls you didn’t like that?” I asked.
“No,” he said. “But I told them ‘stupider’ isn’t a word.” And then he said, “If I sang something like that to the girls, I’d be in big trouble. So why can they sing it to me?”
Seinfeld might be asking himself the same sort of thing.