In order to understand why the wealthy should (and should want to) pay more taxes, you need only consider your home.
First, you buy your home with money that you have earned. Then you pay for maintenance costs — heating, water, sewer, repairs and property taxes — again with money which you have earned and on which you have paid income taxes. Finally, you buy homeowner’s insurance to protect your investment with money on which you also have paid income taxes — and the greater the value of your home, the larger will be the cost of the insurance.
Homeowners insurance is kind of a tax you pay to protect the wealth that you have invested in your property. There are many other similar insurances that you might purchase to protect other aspects of your wealth.
I submit that our system of progressive marginal income taxation is a form of insurance by which the wealthy are assessed a larger amount to protect their greater wealth.
It has been within the framework of our American society — its opportunities and its protections — that the wealthy have gained their wealth and prospered, be it by hard work or inheritance. Maintaining such a society, however, and securing both public and private wealth is not without cost; and the risks for the wealthy when that society is not adequately supported are proportionately greater.
Security comes from the maintenance of our military to protect us from foreign threats and from funding our police and firefighters to protect us from internal threats and natural disasters, the value of which is greater for the wealthy who have more to lose without those protections.
Allowing infrastructure to deteriorate throws sand into the cogs of commerce. Providing education for our youth to keep them productive and employed maintains not only our position amongst the nations but costs us far less than the consequences of unemployment and ignorance. The price of poverty is high and poverty engenders costly crime and social unrest.
Ill health in the community is an expensive drain. On the other hand, a family with an adequate income and a chance to improve itself in an upwardly mobile society is a family willing to allow a certain disparity in wealth.
Thus, it behooves the wealthy, even without calling upon their better natures, to protect their wealth by paying higher taxes to support those public programs which maintain a secure and productive society.
But, what about altruism, the compassionate exercise that tries to lift up those who by chance or misfortune are at the lowest end of our economically disparate society? In this era of concentrated self-gratification, if not outright greed, the willingness to pay only for what one directly receives and without concern for others and the future, I hesitate to elaborate. I leave it to better educators than myself to teach or at least remind the wealthy that no matter how much one thinks he (or she) is “self-made” he did not gain his wealth or position solely by dint of his own effort.
There are always others who have helped, some to whom are known and can be thanked and repaid and others who always will remain unknown. The only way they can be thanked or repaid is by helping and being charitable to others.
Enough said, but eventually those whose sole interest is self-interest will not fare well if their society collapses around them.
The wealthy should be made to be more responsible and to feel fortunate to be able to pay more taxes than they now do.
Dr. Sidney R. Block lives in Belfast and practices rheumatology in Bangor.
if you are wealthy, then you are lying about paying “close to 50%”. What about your unrealized capital gains? What about your realized capital gains? If you are paying 50%, then you aren’t part of the 1% , and you can shut up because you are part of the rest of us who are getting screwed by the Bush tax reduction and the subsequent destruction of the economy.
Now telling me to shut -up is most rude.
Am I not entitled to my opinion? Don’t I have the right to disagree with your entire premise? How very authoritarian of you.
Just another example of the “tolerance” the left claims they display on a daily basis.
And painting with an overly broad brush is better?
Good point…let me rephrase the statement.
“Just another example of the “tolerance”” that many of the self identified “liberal” posters on the BDN comment board “display on a daily basis.”
Can you give me your reasons why you think an unrealized capital gain should be taxed currently?
“us who are getting screwed by the Bush tax reduction”
What is missing here is the basic understanding that it is my money in the first place that I earned with my own hard work. You feel reduction in taxes is taking money from you which is exactly backwards. Sad. The only thing that could change that attitude about taxes is to go back to no withholding. If you and everyone else had to right a check each quarter or once a year for your taxes there would be massive revolt in this country against the outrageous amount of OUR money that our government is taking from us and wasting wasting wasting. Seen the deficit number lately? 15 trillion and growing. That is not from not taxing us enough. That is from spending money we don’t have on things we don’t need and can’t afford.
LOL! Except conservatives are saying the opposite when it comes to tax cuts for the working class.
One thing I have noticed about many highly educated people. They are usually well educated in their field of expertise and either ignorant or just plain idiots in other fields. But they feel their opinions in these other fields should be regarded as pronouncements by the messiah.
Ask Dr Block his opinion of an accountant or attorney or teacher practicing medicine and giving medical advice to others. Seems he has a different opinion when it comes to economics, politics, etc.
you are an economist by profession, I presume?
“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.” -Elizabeth Warren-
That statement is the prime reasont that I have contributed to Scott Brown’s re-election campaign.
What Elizabeth Warren failed to mention is that chances are good that the owner of that factory and the factory itself have already likely paid a portion a higher percentage of their income already to maintain those services. The hunk that Warren wants is a confiscatory percentage above and beyond what would already be paid. Otherwise why even make a statement like that at all.
You mean like Warren Buffet pays a higher percentage than his secretary? Untrue.
No, the percentage that Warrens is enough so our roads and schools don’t crumble. Plus whatever is enough for Conservatives to blow on a Defense.
Tell me, Maybe you know. What percentage is adequate?
I’d say get rid disproportionate write-offs, credits and loopholes and the percentage we’d have now would be about right. I’d say all income, meaning gains, should be subjected to the same tiered rates. That would mean no astronomically low rate for capital gains. If people and corporations would pay their rates straight (ex. 28% actually means 28%), the rates would go down for everyone.
first let’s end the unpaid for Bush tax cuts to the rich…. they are estimated by the C.B.O. to cost the country 3 trillion over the next 10 years and they are the MAIN reason for the long term deficit.. bring back the Clinton rates on any monies earned ABOVE $250,ooo. a year, that would be an increase of 4 pts. more than they are paying now for those who keep asking HOW MUCH..
and additional taxes on any earnings ABOVE one million a year
No, let’s cut spending so they’re paid for.
We are not all that far apart I think with the exception of capital gains. A high capital gains rate discourages investment.
Example for a small business person.
A person makes an investment in a business 30 years ago makes plans for his/her retirement so she/he won’t be dependent on the government.
They sell the business for say a million dollars. Federal taxes would be 35% marginal rate instead of the current 15% rate. Hardly fair for a person that has planned and saved and worked for decades.
How about that 1955 double die penny I found in my penny candy change in 1965? In circulated condition today it is worth about $500. Does the federal government really deserve $175.00 should I decide to sell it?
I said tiered rates. Your penny wouldn’t be taxed at a high rate, unless that penny was on top of other capital gains. I’m kind of sick of hearing these phony memes about “small businesses” and “job creators” as an excuse to have an unfair taxation system. There are plenty of what constitutes a “small business” on Wall Street and they deal with millions and billions. All income, including gains, should be subjected to the same tiered rates.
A big problem with small business which are the “job creators, is they do not have all the loopholes the corporate politicians have written into the tax code which favor big corporations and the rich which we all know are not “job creators”, at least not in the USA
right, back to the Clinton rates when our country had a surplus…
funny, I wonder where all the jobs are from the republican tax cuts as they promised..
there really is NO credible argument that more and more money is in fewer and fewer pockets and that republican policies only help the wealthier among us..
maybe that is a clue to some of the posters here who continue to argue for themselves
Elizabeth Warren is a giant and all of her tireless work for the benefit of our country unfailingly shows this. For those who would distort her words to fit their own ideological dogma they should be ashamed. Scott Brown may be a pretty face, but has shown himself to be a joke.
Gotcha. Everyone who disagrees with your socialist dogma is a joke.
“But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the
rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate;
you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces
that the rest of us paid for. ”
Having been in the trucking busniess for 20 plus years you and your CARS pay squat! Trucks can pay over 100 grand a year EACH in road taxes! Schools you and me pay money for out of our property tax is nothing compared to what the busniess pay out of theirs. The same with police and fire.
Most busniess also donate money to there local schools and police and fire depts as well. Major donations both for civic pride and good publicity.
“Most busniess also donate money to there local schools and police and fire depts as well. Major donations both for civic pride and good publicity.”
LOL, would loves some facts on that.
Ask your local school and fire dept where there donations come from.
No, back up your statement. You made the claim, now cite some facts.
Why should he have to? You never do.
Actually, homeowners pay the lions share of property taxes. Many businesses get reductions to these taxes in return for hiring and maintaining jobs. New start up usually get all property taxes waived with TIFs and things like that.
Some businesses give a lot to charity. Some do it for PR reasons and not altruism. Wal-Mart drives down wages and shutters local owned businesses but then gives a thousand dollars to the school for football uniforms. That is the way this stuff works. This is not because they are good citizens, it is because it keeps people from hating them and avoiding them.
Technically pay more, but 1,000 to someone who only makes 20,000 a year means a lot more than it does to someone who makes 200,000 a year.
Making $200,000 a year is a wonderful living but it does not qualify as rich and the tax on that $200,000 is roughly $68,000, federal and State combined. Not counting social security and medicare which is roughly another $10,000. How much more would you have this person pay?
They don’t pay that much. There are so many credits, deductions, loopholes, etc. available.
Cite your facts, please.
no one is suggesting that any money under $200,000. should be taxed more…
you are adding to the confusion with this comment.
By “technically” you mean “accurately.”
The wealthy need to stop pretending like they don’t owe something back into the system that allowed them to prosper in the first place. At the rate we’re going, there isn’t going to be a middle class. That means, no educated work force and no consumers. It takes the whole country to be great, not a select wealthy few.
If you really paid attention to what is happening in America, you would see that it is the politicians and not the wealthy that have ruined this country. It also just so happens that the majority of those politicians are wealthy or stinking rotten rich and are expert at placing the blame elsewhere.
that really is funny… the politicians are BOUGHT by the wealthy, they are more and more puppets of the monied.
Michael Moore -net worth of $50 million dollars, John Kerry-net worth 210 million, our own Stephen King-net worth $400 million, Nancy Pelosi- net worth $31 million, Al Gore-net worth $100 million, Lady Gaga- net worth $110 million, Barack Obama-net worth $10.5 million. These are a few of the many, many wealthy progressives that influence the democratic party in this country. I just wanted to clarify that politicians are bought by the wealthy on both sides of the aisle. How can their net worth be so high when we have so many poor people in this country. They should lead by example and donate all but $1 million for them to live on.
I take no issue with your suggestion, but I would be content with those making in excess of a million a year paying what they did under the Clinton administration. I am an equal opportunity liberal.
I actually take an issue with my suggestion. All of these rich people I mentioned with the exception of Pelosi, Gore and Kerry, deserve the money they make. They provide a product or service that people are willing to pay for and it’s not right to keep taking from them because we can’t get our policies and spending in order. According to the tax table, people making over $379,000 pay 35% in federal taxes and another 8.5% in Maine for incomes over the $40,000 mark. Once you include all of the backdoor taxes we pay on a daily basis, they are well above 50%. If you don’t see this as a fair rate, than I have to say that you are also greedy. It’s time people take personal responsibility for things and stop depending on others to provided for them. This country’s not going to get great again by knocking the knees out from underneath our successful citizens.
as I clearly said, bring back the Clinton tax rates….. I am a fortunate woman, I have enough for my needs and I am fine to share…
as far as what people are willing to pay for, well that is another discussion entirely.. you throw around numbers here but make no mention of the enormous income gap that just continues to grow and grow… I believe that those on the lower end should pay less..
spending you say, are you familiar with ‘tax spending’, that is when the government finds creative ways to benefit the wealthy… there are many ways to spend and any objective analysis shows that the country’s spending has not benefited the vast majority of it’s citizens.
methinks that you are too cute by half
The top 1% in 2008 paid 38.02% of all income taxes and the Top 25% (those making $67000 and above) paid 86.34% of all income taxes. The bottom 50% of all income tax payers only paid 2.7% of all the income tax money collected. Looking at these numbers, the lower end significantly pays less income taxes than the rich. Wasteful spending and ineffective programs are what needs to be addressed before we ask the rich to pay more. Even going back to a Clinton upper tax rate of 39% will do nothing to get us out of the hole we’re in. During Clinton’s last year in office, the top 1% paid 37.42% of all income taxes. The rich are now paying more than they did during the Clinton years and we are still worst off.
I certainly agree that wasteful spending and ineffective programs should be addressed. The numbers you cite do not include payroll, sales and other taxes that the lower end pay which are a very large hit to their bottom line. There are many ways to use numbers and I wonder why you persist in protecting the wealthy, but so be it.
These few wealthy progressives with conscience are dwarfed by the wealthy who control the natural and productive resources around the globe. The fight is easily 100 to 1 in favor of the wealthy “regressives” who seek to drive down wages, impacting global living standards for their own gain.
Would you rather have a billion dollars and a hundred people striving to be better businesspeople to get it from you or would you prefer to have 10 billion dollars and a monopoly with no competition at all? This is the question the elite are asking themselves. We can see the answer by looking at the trend lines. This is not an American problem. This is a worldwide assault on wage earners. Period.
And the point is the politicians do exactly what the wealthy tell them to.
Distraction is for extraction. Blaming the politicians when the oligarchs are the ones who pay to put them there is absurd. Politicians are as vile as they are now because they have been chosen by the power structure to represent us. As soon as a real independent thinker comes along they are destroyed by the media. The politicians are lousy because the rich do not want governance. Governance is for the rest of us. An inefficacious government actually helps the already wealthy.
Gridlock and distraction are the name of the game. These are the tools that allow for the people to continue to be extracted by the wealthy and offer up no means to change the inequalities whatsoever.
Agreed. And it’s amazing to me that some Commenters, who claim they have little money and work for a living, come out strongly in favor of Republican policies, which always tilt toward giving the wealthy more and more and more… at the expense of the Commenters themselves. In some cases, I suspect, these may be trolls, or paid operatives of Koch, Heritage, et al.
I agree 100%.
Some people support freedom regardless of whether they realize financial gain from it. Sorry you find that so amazing; it’s the principle upon which this country was founded.
You support millionaires getting special tax breaks at your own expense. That doesn’t sound like “freedom” for me.
Progressives are changing our system from one where any individual is ALLOWED to prosper to one where anyone who does prosper is punished and vilified for doing so.
Vilified? Get real. With an extreme concentration of wealth our economy will never be prosperous again.
If you were truly informed you would have read a recent article on the front page of a major newspaper about a milti billionaire named Lauder who paid 14% income tax last year. Guess it wouldn’t be fair to ask him to pay a bit more when we are in such a mess.
I pay more than that and I am not even a thousandaire….
Liberals need to stop pretending like government always spends money wisely and there’s no waste, ever.
What a stupid suggestion. A tax system doesn’t work unless it’s across the board, obviously. Just like, for example, recycling doesn’t work if just a small handful are doing it.
Disproportional income warrants disproportionate taxes.
Thats how.
“Enough said, but eventually those whose sole interest is self-interest will not fare well if their society collapses around them.”
My interest is my family, not supporting yours or anyone else’.
What someone else earns, whether through hard work or inheritance
is theirs….not yours or anyone else’s. Society will only collapse
because of the people who are making and passing laws that are
killing society, killing business, killing job growth and trying to
change our society to the new world order. Our society will also
collapse because of the “give me” or “I am owed” mentality. The
sheep scream about what the wealthy pay, thing is they pay! And
they pay more than the rest of us will ever pay. So what are they going
to pay more for? So people can collect 2 more years of unemployment
or more welfare? Pay for what? So illegals can have free healthcare and
tuition? If anyone actually thinks this govt would use any additional
monies for anything other than stealing from someone to enhance
their chances of re-election or paying of their cronies, dream on.
Also these “rich” people probably give more in charity..to where and
who they want than any of these protesters…unless they are like Joe Biden and
give 300 bucks a year.
You want fairness, the answer is not having ANYONE pay more, the
simple answer is redo the tax system and make EVERYONE pay.
Only by banding together did mankind advance to the point where we could have a modern world. Each village requires those in it to give for the greater good of all within the village.
You are forgetting that in this brave new world close to 50% contribute little and have been led to believe that others should contribute for them. Using your own premise maybe that is why things are falling apart.
(Actually, your premise is junk. )
The key word in your comment is GIVE. Taxes………not giving but TAKING.
“what someone earns” – the supposition here is “earns” – it was squeezed out of consumers and taxpayers alike, just like the welfare people squeeze it out, only in much smaller quantities than $20 million + executive salaries given by their chums on the board of directors with not much regard for results.
They then live large often at corporate expense (read that – money that won’t be paid to people in their companies who are actually performing the tasks that create the wealth). Then they invest all that discretionary income with the benefit of inside information from other privileged people in the business world and those capital gains are taxed at much lower rates than middle income earners are paying for actually working.
Yet you want people who at the bottom to pay more of the income from which every cent is paid out in necessities when they are already paying employment taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, etc.
You have no idea of Fairness.
What a company or what the shareholders
decide is compensation is really their problem.
What someone makes and how it is invested,
as long as it is legal, is their business and who
are you to say how much a person can make or what they
should do with it? As for the taxing of investments,
how they are taxed is the LAW. Like i said, change the
tax code…period. And yes….I want EVERYONE to pay.
Only 53% of us pay, the rest are recipients and of that 53%
the richest do pay quite a bit. As for the poor folk paying
all those taxes..all the extra taxes, are you trying to say
the rich aren’t paying them? Their consumption is probably
far more than your analysis so wouldn’t you have to say they
are paying much more in all those extra taxes? As far as
necessities, for a lot of poor people around, one sees quite
a few cell phone, ipods, ipads, flat screen tvs,cars,cigarettes,
chains and jewlery, tats….you know…all necessities. I am sure
you will be able to come up with reasons for each of them too.
I guess ONE tax rate for everyone would be unfair, no deductions,
and everyone pays. Nawwww…we can have only one class paying
more. How about in fairness, none of us pays anything. What do
you say about that?
Most of the Dr’s “opinion” was platitudes and illogical mush anyway.
Yeah, the article reads like an email he forwarded from Elizabeth Warren to the BDN.
Unfortunately it will be the middle class that immediately becomes “rich” when politicians find an angle to anyone’s pocket book. Sounds absurd? Simply look at the 1970’s; history does teach lessons if you pay attention, a family earning $90,000 is going to be “wealthy” according to the left wing elite, and yes – family.
Nah, I think we’re talking about millionaires and billionaires, actually.
What many pro-tax people fail to understand about governments and tax policy and spending is this.
They can never tax enough and they can never spend enough.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
46% of every dollar spent in the US is spent by federal state and local governments and they demand more taxes to spend and folks wonder why the private sector cannot create jobs?
The problem is clearly that government spends to much.
Yeah, but those that moan about too much spending only ever want cut where they’d cut regardless of a deficit or not. Those deficit hawks have no problem running up the bill when it’s unfunded Bush tax cuts or Defense spending.
It’s great how you know exactly where everyone against wasteful spending wants to cut. Tell me, did you survey them all personally? I must have missed your call.
Not what happened in the 1970’s – learn you’re history – it’ll be the middle-class that pays simply because there isn’t enough revenue to be gained from the “1%” – check the math. By the way – in NY 71% of all taxes are paid for by the top 10% of taxpayers – the net family income to fall into this elite group is one hundred and five thousand a year – we – the middle class are going to be screwed on this because we’re spending our future to prop up a false standard of living (translation – too much spending).
It’s not even relevant and what you said doesn’t make sense. We’re talking about millionaires and billionaires paying their fair share of taxes as they’ve seen their wealth expand incredibly while the rest of the country has been stagnant of losing. It has to do with the concentration of wealth to a very small group.
We need to cut spending AND have these people and corporations pay their share. We’re going further and further in debt in order to continue to give them the Bush tax cut renewals. That’s wrong.
This makes no sense at all. You will have to refine your argument if you want to teach anyone about history.
The Constitution is the “official guide” and road map for our great nation. The founders, who wrote it, demonstrated a great deal of wisdom, more so than anyone in DC has today. If we adhered to what they wrote down, we would not be in this mess.
All three branches of the Federal governement have illegaly “seized” powers that they are not supposed to have…..under the terms of the Constitution. Example: Only Congress can “declare war” yet a succession of presidents of both political stripes, have taken us into wars, so many of them at the moment, that most of us cannot think of them all. And it goes on and on from there. Bush with his “freedom stealing Patriot act”, Obama with his “forced” national health care, and so on. There are thousands of examples of abuse of power, and it knows no political affilliation, both parties are totally corrupt!
The Founders were adamant that money should not be “taken from the pockets of one and given to another”. You don’t have to take my word for that, you can easily research it. In simple terms the Fouonders did not intend it to be the proper role of “government” to “take care of people”, from cradle to grave basically, as it exists today.
We were founded as a nation of people with “Liberty”, a “free people” if you will. The only way we can be truly “free” is to be responsible for taking care of ourselves.
Those of us who depend upon “government” in any way, are simply the modern day slaves.
I would rather be dead than be a slave under control of the political class that inhabits Washington, DC.
Obama with his “forced” national health care,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_for_the_relief_of_sick_and_disabled_seamen
You might want to rethink about the founding fathers thought of National Health care and mandates for the collection of the insurance!
Thomas Jefferson “HIMSELF” voted for this act!
Well your handle is appropriate if you think the founders did not want taxes, regulation and public health. You should read some history and turn off the TV “news” that makes you know less by watching it. The constitution was created with promoting the general welfare of the people as one of the highest ideals.
“Forced” health care as you call it is a myth. Every single person requires health care. Forced insurance is a better way to view this. Only by making us responsible for coverage can we solve the moral hazard problem that “healthy people” avoid buying insurance until they are sick. That puts the burden on the rest of us since we are not comfortable with allowing our neighbors to die.
You are a product of the money that has been spent to “condition” you to think the way you do.
I would rather be dead than to have my mind filled with misinformation from people wanting to control me. To be filled with misinformation, like you are, is the cruelest slavery I know.
“Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.”- Bob Marley
WOW!!!! when I saw the headline I knew it was going to be a big joke but that was about the biggest load of crap I have ever heard!!!! Why should anyone feel fortunate to be paying more of their hard earned monay!!!
Some people would rather pay more, since they are wealthy, to ensure that society is able to make progress. Greed leads to reduced education and well being if unchecked. The world progresses more and obtains better results when more people are able to achieve their potential. Unmitigated greed starves opportunity for everyone but the wealthy. Some of us would rather live well in a healthy society than live exceedingly well in a poor one.
The weathly paying taxes is also an insuance against a revolution by the majority.
Spot on!
revolution by the majority
That is “Why” there is Communism. its seeds are unregulated capitalism and corruption
Cuba is the best example.
They will understand this soon enough. They think they will automatically have the military to impose their world order. I bet not. Like every other greedy empire, the ones who derailed broad achievement and progress for their own private enrichment will lose. We are living on the cusp of one of the most pivotal times in all of history I think. The overreach will result in widespread violence, some revolutionary. On the other side of this, maybe a decade from now, I am hopeful will begin the era of the worker where an honest work creates a sustainable lifestyle and education is free and universal. We just have to survive the big assault that is coming first.
For all those who bemoan their taxes here, I would remind them that the tax rates in this country are at a 50 year low and that the income gap continues to widen.
There is a great book by Thomas Frank ‘What’s the Matter With Kansas’ where he documents how and why people continue to vote against their own best interests.’Useful idiots’ is a term that could well be used for many posters here. It is a pejorative term used to describe people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.
When tax rates were very high, you could deduct everything down to your tooth brush.
It’s an apples and turnip comparison.
It is more telling to look at tax revenue vs GDP which has remained steady for a century.
Money supply and inflation is what’s killing the middle class.
I have one final comment to you,
What you have said is patently absurd. Ciao.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5aAsxFJOeMw/R_4UOfenNCI/AAAAAAAAA7Q/5w-SDkBQfrA/s1600-h/Personal-Income-Taxes-as-Share-of-GDP.JPGhttp://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2008/04/personal-income-taxes-1954-vs-today.html
Power and wealth accumulation by too few is what is killing the middle class.
Sheesh, what a ridiculous position, the money supply, lmao.
Middle class people vote republican because they think to do otherwise would result in them losing their guns and religion. This is learned behavior. Fear mongering is effective, especially for those who do not think critically. Funny how Obama has done NOTHING to affect gun laws or freedom of religion. The fear is based on myths. It works. It would appear that almost exactly half of the people are susceptible to this propaganda.
If not for these fear tactics co-opting our politics, imagine the human potential that went unrealized by reactionary policies and false crises.
You built a factory out there? Good for you.
Thank you. When I built my factory, I hired workers, paid contractors and provided a good or service people voluntarily paid for.
But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for;
Not really Elizabeth. When I hire a company to transport good or use my own vehicles, I pay a road tax that is included in the price of the fuel used by the vehicles. I also pay tolls, excise taxes, and property tax on the vehicles themselves. If I down actually own the vehicle and employ the person driving it, I do pay indirectly though the company I hire to provide this service for me. you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; I don’t think you paid to educate my workers. Education funds come out of property tax. Since I pay a lot of tax on the factory and the property it sits on (or if I rent, the landlord is paying those taxes) and I own a nice house so I pay a lot of property taxes on that as well. I also sponsor the local teams, buy their candy and participate in other fundraisers too.you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.Again, like I said that statement isn’t correct. Federal taxes don’t go towards local police/fire except for some some small grants, but I think that’s covered by the higher level of tax I pay. I also pay a local company that installed an alarm system for me, I pay a monthly service for it so I’m participating in the local economy. I also pay a higher rate, because I’m a business.“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. See the thing of it is, I put my neck out on the line to build this factory and if it fails, well I’m out a lot of time, energy, effort and money. I’ll have to start all over again if that is even possible. The chunk I do keep is taxed at the top rate of 35%, plus 8% Maine tax plus, plus 10% or so for SS/Medicare.If you want to balance the budget, you have to create a new tax rate of 100% starting at 100,000 or less. Then, of course, you would collapse the economy and we’d never pay back the 15,000,000,000,000 we owe in federal debt, 117,000,000,000,000 in unfunded liabilities in SS, prescription drugs and medicare. We’d also leave the states unable to repay the $1,200,000,000,000 they owe. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.” -Elizabeth Warren-
I don’t remember signing a social contract, but our elected official made a pledge to uphold the Constitution of the United States. I do not believe that pledge included bankrupting the country. All we are paying forward to the next kid is a debt which will crush them.
speak to George W. Bush
I sure miss him. Our current president couldn’t hold a candle to W. The only question now is will there be anything left of our country when B. Hussein O. goes back to Kenya, or Hawaii, or Chicago… or whereever he will go back to.
Nice defense for a convicted war criminal, Harry. Were you awake at all during the second half of 2008? Your guy and his bad policies destroyed the US economy to the extent that it took almost $10 trillion to stop the bleeding before Obama took office and another couple since. I hope you let us all know who you like for president. Whoever Harry likes is certain to $#&* things up royally. You appear to be the worst judge of leadership I have ever seen.
“Convicted war criminal”? Where did that trial happen? In your mind? Because it never occured in the reality the rest of us live in. Your local meeting of Code Pink doesn’t count as an actual court of law, you know.
Red herring.
Really, when G.W.Bush took office the country had a HUGE SURPLUS, when he left office the country was in shambles. If your concern is with the debt he is who you should be looking to.
President Obama has saved us from going off a cliff . I do not expect you to understand this.
I see very clearly from what you have written where you stand.
Nope, when W got into office we were in a recession lasting from March 2001 to November 2001.
Bush spent $4.9 trillion on wars, progressive policies and finally abandoning the free market. He did this in 96 months. The recession Bush inherited lasted 8 months.
Obama spent $4 trillion on wars, progressive policies and central planning policies. He did this in 31 months. His recession lasted 18 months (maybe more).
Both recessions were cause by cheap money aka the Federal Reserve.
The parties are the same for the most part.
sorry, Clinton left office with a huge surplus, you are incorrect and you are spreading misinformation here that is way too much to counter…
as I said, I do not expect you to understand or to agree with me and with the ‘facts’ you have presented you prove my point…
good tidings to you..
The debt
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20095704-503544.htmlThe recession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1990s_recession_in_the_United_States
Real inflation
http://dailybail.com/home/chart-the-real-inflation-rate-is-11-according-to-cpi-calcula.html
Note: the calculation for inflation has changes twice since the Carter administration.
Obama added a war in Yemen and Libya.
“Facts are troubling things” – John Adams
Oh the poor people who are earning a good living and have to pay taxes.
The rich got substantially richer in the last three decades, while the rest of America was left behind — and that trend may only continue unless something changes, according to Congress’ official budget analyst. Some Democrats say it’s the rules in Washington that need to change.The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Tuesday released a report showing that between 1979 and 2007, the top 1 percent of Americans with the highest incomes have seen their incomes grow by an average of 275 percent. At the same time, the 60 percent of Americans in the middle of the income scale saw their incomes increase by just 40 percent. The poorest fifth of Americans saw their income rise by 18 percent.CBO Director Doug Elmendorf told Congress on Wednesday the CBO’s projections “do incorporate some ongoing widening of the income distribution.””We don’t know, and I don’t think our projection calls for a continued widening to that extent,” he added. “But neither do we see forces at hand that would cause that to be reversed in coming years.”Democrats this year have pointed to the growing income gap in the nation as evidence that Congress should raise taxes on the wealthy and implement other policy changes to advance the middle class.”I would assume that we are where we are because of — well, let me put it this way — to the extent that government policy has allowed this gap to exist, if we continue current policy, then it’s fair to say that we are going to experience that kind of continued widening of the wealth gap in America,” Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C.
One major flaw with the writes logic. Insurance is not REQUIRED for a home you OWN!!!! However if you fail to pay property tax the gov takes your home. All this talk about the wealthy is generated by those who either are failures or just do not want work to get that that the wealthy earned for themselves.
Roger, you are so quick to call nearly the entire middle class of this country failures. The wealthy are not homogeneous nor are the other brackets. Some wealthy people never worked an honest day in their lives and yet they get richer by virtue of having had wealth to begin with. That by most measures does not make them successful human beings. Similarly, there are many more that have worked as hard as their bodies would allow, every day and still they have nothing. To claim, as you do, that we live in a perfect meritocracy is absurd.
There were times in our history where hard work was more directly associated with financial well being. That time has long since passed by. I would guess you are a man of at least 60 years old by your world view. It appears you did not notice as the world changed around you. Opportunity is not what it was. Predation against the poor is far more institutionalized now and really is stealing the middle class now as well. Some very well heeled bankers and business leaders have operated to perpetrate massive deception against mostly poor or lower middle class people. Predatory mortgage lending is only one aspect. In addition, fees and financial costs associate with being poor have risen. Many states now provide social benefits on debit cards that cost the recipient fees to use. They have no choice in this. The wealthy banker wins by making money off of these individuals they otherwise would not have as customers.
There are millions of stories that render your assessment incorrect. The stories are real and available to understand if you chose to listen. Adjusted for inflation, hourly wages are the same as they were in 1974. At the same time, the top 10% have seen a fourfold increase. Your theory would insist that 90% of all of Americans are lazy. That is not only untrue, it is mean and describes a world where the labor of workers has no value and the investment of the wealthy is the only thing that is valued. You are a dinosaur, Roger, and a very nasty one at that. I would love to see you tell your tale of laziness to the hard working loggers and construction crews who almost never become wealthy but would put your efforts and work ethic to the test, no matter what you do or who you are. I would bet you changed your tune, in a hurry.
He never called the entire middle class failures. Work on your reading skills.
What an absurd metaphor.
Home insurance is nothing like taxes for the simple reason that you’re not forced to buy home insurance – and it goes towards a specific cause that is beneficial to only the person paying it. Taxes, on the other hand, are forced out of the citizenry and used without their direct input.
If all the government spent money on was public safety and roads, I’d have no problem with taxes. But they don’t spend money on only the things that everyone needs – they waste it on programs designed to get themselves reelected.
I wonder, if the “social contract” exists, when did I sign it, and what was the other option? I don’t recall that. I recall the government saying I better give them money or else. If the only other option is imprisonment, it’s not a contract – it’s tyranny.
Convicted where? In your mind? Because that never happened in, you know, reality.