Stop hyperbole, fear tactics
Nancy Cummings and Joe Ditre are a bit late in their prediction of the “perfect storm” in health care in Maine (BDN, Dec. 19). It has already happened and has continued to rock the people of Maine for the last two decades. I’m talking about Maine’s devastatingly overregulated insurance market and our irresponsible and unsustainable expansion of MaineCare.
The life ring thrown to drowning victims in Maine’s health care perfect storm came in the form of Dirigo Health back in 2003 — an expensive and doomed program that never came close to its goals but ate up hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars. Needless to say, that life ring didn’t float.
I find it ironic that the two authors both represent organizations that support Maine’s health insurance status quo as well as fought desperately to continue spending money on Dirigo.
To the writers’ chagrin, something is finally being done to change the Maine health insurance status quo and success has been predicted by an independent actuarial study by Gorman Actuarial, LLC, authorized by Maine’s Bureau of Insurance.
Ms. Cumming and Mr. Ditre should stop with the outrageous hyperbole and fear tactics. This kind of rhetoric is just as irresponsible as the failed programs and policies they continue to support.
Earl Inman
Round Pond
History won’t be kind
Thank you for your Dec. 26 editorial, “It was a Needless War.” It said better than I could that which so many of us have been thinking these past eight years.
Mr. Rumsfeld’s folly has cost us dearly, both in treasure and in blood, although the true
measure both fiscal and emotional won’t be known for many years. Events have a way
of looking different as we begin to put some distance between us and the war and history
will not be kind to the Iraq war.
Just as with my war, Vietnam, the further out we go the more of a mistake it will be shown to have been. I only wish I had taken the time to level more criticism as maybe it could have hastened our withdrawal.
This fiasco in Iraq has put our beloved nation deep in debt (with a price tag of over $1 trillion) and has polarized our body politic. I can only pray that our political leaders of both parties who blindly hurled themselves off the cliff of national pride in 2003 will tape your editorial up on their walls and look to its words the next time some righteous neo-conservative who has never seen combat suggests sending our troops into another abyss like Iraq.
Michael E. Carpenter
Houlton
Life not sacred?
The story of a motorist striking a pedestrian and killing him (BDN, Dec. 28) reveals a legal loophole which troubles me. There is no criminal negligence because the driver was asleep behind the wheel. Moral responsibility isn’t restricted to acts of commission, but includes acts of omission.
When a driver is intoxicated, a designated, sober driver is needed to control the vehicle. Why isn’t it a criminal offense to lose control of a mobile, deadly weapon by falling asleep? If Lt. Bob Young had been in Norman Pelletier’s place (God forbid), would District Attorney Almy maintain the same legal position? Also, the Legislature would close this loophole without hesitation.
Maybe the problem lies in the worldview that human life isn’t sacred anymore.
There’s too much carnage on the highways. When are motorists going to change their careless, irresponsible driving habits and realize that driving involves an awesome responsibility that affects many people? If we are not fit to drive, designate someone who is or stay off the roads.
Elmer Morin
Limestone
Teh
Inman We’ve experienced three decades of out of control health insurance increases, so how will NO regulations help that situation. The answer is Medicare for all and eliminate the greedy middleman insurance companies, immediately saving the healthcare system millions of dollars in obscene CEO salaries and benefits, lobbying costs and advertising. LePage’s new healthcare bill DRASTICALLY increases the cost of health insurance in Maine for people in rural ares and for older individuals. Already businesses in the northern part of the state are seeing 40% insurance premium increases under the LePage bill. Plus we all have to pay a LEPAGE TAX of $4 per month on every insurance policy!
Out of the approximately $2.5 Trillion that we spend on healthcare annually in the U.S., 31% or $775 Billion goes to insurance costs(read “profit”). Just imagine what we could do with that kind of money if we weren’t wasting it on a non productive industry…….just imagine!
I am sure that you are more than well aware that the 31% of U.S. healthcare expenditures flowing to the insurance industry represent gross premiums not profit. A quick check of Wellpoint’s profitability shows a net profit of 4.76% and a return on assets of 5.7%. The financial performance of the majority of Wellpoint’s peers fall in the same general range. You are grossly overstating the data in an attempt to make a point.
That’s the profit after they have rewarded the top 20%of administration with obscene salaries. Nobody, sitting at a desk making nothing and figuring out how to wiggle out of paying for someone’s cancer operation when the said they would is worth $20,000,000
Officers salaries are determined by the owners. Not you. You have nothing to say about it. If the owners determined that the desk sitter was not worth the money. I guarantee he/she would not be making it. You are real arrogant you know that?
If these administrators were creating wealth I could approve of their salaries. Unfortunately they are not, they are simply creating high salaries for them selves. That money comes, not from some economic expansion they created, but from the people who buy health insurance. It’s simply a transfer of wealth.
I do know that the provision of a service is expansionary economic activity. Health insurance companies are no longer providing a service commensurate with their profits nor are they expanding the economy
I believe it’s the board of directors that determines salaries. And the relationship between boards is quite incestuous: one CEO is a board member for another corporation. They have created rules that make it impossible for stock holders to do anything much about salaries.
What does arrogance have to do with any of this?
As a stockholder, I’ve noted that it’s too easy for coroporate boards to ram through salaries and outrageous bonuses for “key” executives. Owners, maybe, but with miniscule voice in the process.
Said the pot to the kettle: “Away Blackguard!”
Michael Carpenter, thank you for a well written letter supporting the “It was a Needless War” editorial. The war did more than just destroy the economic health of two countries and needlessly kill hundreds of thousands of people: it destroyed our credibility as an nation that the world could trust to be honest and fair.
I think the death toll was in the millions, if you want to count all the civilian deaths.
What a tragic war.
mssallyjones ,it’s progressives and liberals that can’t understand the math of our domestic economy, believe that FDR was Jesus,, don’t understand charts,graphs, percentages and fractions and really, really don’t understand the mathematics of risk. We paid attention in school while you were slapping your books shut telling everyone in earshot that school was stupid and only for sissies. Real splittails were tough and didn’t need no stinking education
My, my. Stereotyping to the max. And conservatives were the perfect students? My evaluation of the general public’s concept of risk is that it’s abysmal.
A thousand pardons, G40 – I was paraphrasing a very caustic comment from SallyJ.
Michael E. Carpenter–I agree that history will not be kind to our nationalist wars. Truth is, history will probably not be kind to the United States in general. Sort of like the Roman Empire, history tells us of the great advances to civilization that the Romans built but the overview is they collapsed due to greed. I expect a repeat concerning us. It is very sad because we have the potential to be so much better if we could just throw off the yoke of militarism that is dragging us down.
Excellent post. The Roman’s military costs contributed to their down-fall.
The United States 0f America landed men on the moon in 1969, and 200 years from now that will be seen as this country’s greatest contribution to history. A close second is the idea in the Declaration of Independence that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. Sadly, we haven’t always lived up to this.
Peace and justice veterans against the war–why did so many troops(over 1.5 million since May 2003) coming through Bangor International Airport state that it was worth it and they would be willing to go back in a hearbeat? Of course, many of them were deployed more than once.
I don’t know how anyone could be against taking out a despot such as Saddam Hussein, in order to free the people in Iraq from his tyranny.
Was Obama’s sending our troops into Afghanistan the right thing to do for the Left side? Seems that he and his liberal followers want it both ways, since he has taken credit for the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq, yet he voted against going in and criticized President Bush for doing so.
Have you met any returning warriors and wounded warriors– our heroes– and thanked them for serving and listened to their sentiments?
In addition: Mr. Morin, you are right about human life not being sacred anymore–as attested to by over 54 million unborn babies being killed since 1973, and thus the scenario has gone on to include partially-born babies, the disabled, the elderly, etc.
Those were fetuses, not “unborn babies”. A fetus has no legal standing. Please try to keep hysterical rhetoric out of legal issues.
Our troops were not sent to Iraq to free Iraq from Hussein. They were sent to take his WMD’s. They were sent on the basis of complete and utter Rumsfield/Cheney BS .
You’re lumping the disabled and the elderly in with your usual anti-abortion rant?
They would go back to be with their Brothers-in-Arms. The kind of loyalty that really matters. Not because of some cause or another. I wouldn’t think that God and Country and apple pie and all that would mean too much if you’ve got RPG’s and mortars coming your way.
These guys also want it to mean something so that the senseless death and destruction of their fellow servicemen would not seem like a total waste. Think big picture. not how we as a nation are viewed now but decades or longer from now.
one last thing. no doubt that Hussein was a tyrant but I betcha that in a few years the country will be just as messed up with their own sectarian violence.
Earl Inman, which insurance company do you go to for emergency medical care?
If we do away with Dirigo, Medicaid, etc., will that stop people from having accidents or becoming ill? Does it make the costs of services go away if they have no insurance when they show up at an ER?
Unless we set a policy of pay as you go, the costs of all services will continue to be spread out among those who have insurance or the ability to pay cash.
This country needs to come up with a viable universal health coverage.
Nothing is universal. Ask anyone.
(Yeah, you can totally quote that if you want).
EARL,
It sickens me to see some of these people on Maine care that own homes, boats, atvs, snowmobiles, camps and many other goodies. Maine care should not never kick in until said home and goodies are sold to pay the medical bills first, then we’ll help.
MICHAEL,
You have some good points. It is not our duty to change nations, but just to protect ours.
Any irresponsible act that takes another life should be met with swift justice. As I said the other day, bring back the ” WILD WEST “, days. Days when ” Justice ” was more then a mere word, it was an action.
Amcon. You have been mentioning these cheats for years. I’m assuming they are your neighbors since you probably aren’t going from town town looking for cheats. According to you these neighbors cheat on Mainecare, TANF, LIHEAP, food stamps, town aid, food pantries, everything. If you haven’t reported these evil people you are part of the problem. Have you reported them? What happened?
Let’s say no one is cheating. I’m saying a person should have to sell all of their assets prior to collecting taxpayer care.
Are your neighbors aware that you are now in charge of their ethics?
Amcon, you did not make a generalized statement that people should not cheat. You were very specific about seeing people cheating. Your words “It sickens me to see”, indicate you saw actual people cheating. And since you continuously mention “these people” one has to assume they are your neighbors.
I agree except for a house and car/truck/motorcycle. Snowmobiles, boats, off road vehicles are all luxuries. A car/truck/motorcycle are necessities. A house is also a necessity, or else the individual will end up looking to the government for a place to live. In most cases welfare is temporary so selling a house or means of transportation would make things worse. It just happens now that due to the prolonged poor job situation some people are on welfare longer than expected.
How can you sell assets in a horrible economy where no one is buying, or buying very little? Some times, people who were once well off get down on their luck too.
I don’t think it’s the cheating that is the issue. The fact that people can own these things, collect MaineCare and NOT be cheating is the problem. Our MaineCare criteria is one of the most generous in the country (one of the very few that supports non-categoricals). I almost never agree with amcon, but he (?) has a point: if people can pay for ATVs and snow machines, they can contribute more to their own health care.
I still don’t understand why we don’t have a sliding scale subsidy for MaineCare. Why is it all or nothing? Why not adjust copays based on assets and income?
Mr. Inman, health insurance rates have risen steeply in Eastern Maine for the coming year as a result of LePlague’s “reform”. I know, as I have to pay them for my business. They are going down slightly in southern Maine. LePlague’s “reform” allows insurers to favor younger, more urban workforces. The very people who voted for LePlague, rural and older Mainers, are being hurt the most. LePlague’s real “base” is the insurance industry which can now cherrypick customers and price others out of the market.
Mr. Carpenter, consider Iraq the second dumbest war we ever fought, after Viet Nam. When I think that both Johnson and Bush II called Texas home, I long for a constitutional amendment barring Texans from serving as President.
Given the fact that the reform has not yet been in effect, I would guess that premium increases either have nothing to do with the reform and will hopefully be alleviated once the reform takes effect, or that the increases are one of the unintended consequences of new laws. In this case, it would be companies attempting to make more money before the law changes and affects their ability to do so through increased competition.
Either way, once the reform actually is working, projections show that Mainers will have lower health insurance costs overall.
Parts of the reform take effect this current calendar year. Competition works fine when the demand curve is elastic, as with non-necessities. The demand for health care is extremely inelastic: the patient suffering a heart attack is not going to look for the least expensive and most efficient hospital. This “competition cures all” mantra of the right ignores basic economic principles and the international experience in countries such as the Netherlands and Switzerland, which have, through closely regulated insurers, delivered a better health outcome, universal coverage, and a lower overall cost for their citizens. Take your blinders off and see the complexity of the world.
The demand for health care may be inelastic, but the demand for health insurance is not. People do not shop for health insurance when they are in cardiac arrest. They shop for health insurance based on the benefits of the plan that they think will serve their situation best. Or they choose from plan options that their workplace offers.
I know that the Netherlands is supposed to have a great health system, but I don’t know if that necessarily translates to meaning ours could be the same. We have a far different population demographic. We also have an entrenched medical profession that will not easily accept necessary reforms to make our health care more efficient. For example, the majority of Netherlands births are attended by midwives and a large percentage, around 30%, are attended homebirths. Can you see the current obstetric medical community allowing that much business to be shifted to midwives in order to make this segment of health care more affordable? Can you see 30% of American women willing to birth without anesthesia in a home setting?
People in The Netherlands eat a more healthy diet than the typical American, which leads to an overall healthier population as well. The US health care system is affected by so many factors outside of the simple delivery of health services to the sick. It seems to me that a jump to universal, government paid coverage could have some disastrous consequences for our economy.
The choice to go uninsured (the result of an unregulated health insurance market) affects the price of health insurance by increasing the cost of coverage for those who remain insured and must, indirectly, pick up the costs of those ER visits that go unpaid by the uninsured. In a flexible demand curve market, a falling demand triggers a decreasing price, not an increasing price. You cannot de-link the health insurance market from the need for health care.
If you don’t like the Netherlands, then look at Switzerland, Germany, or France, indeed, at any other industrial nation that achieves better health results with less money. Yes, their doctors make less money, but they are not saddled with enormous debt the moment they finish medical school. Simply increasing the admissions to medical school and providing more financial assistance to med students would decrease the cost of physicians over time.
Do not throw the “universal, government paid coverage” out as a bogeyman. Neither the Swiss nor the Dutch systems fit that model. As for “disastrous” economic consequences for a taxpayer-financed system, the Canadian economy is doing quite nicely: its manufacturers are not saddled with huge health insurance costs for its employees.
Not all uninsured people refuse to pay for medical bills. Many of the uninsured pay out of pocket for services through savings or by setting up a payment plan with their provider. As for ER use, I have not seen a documented study that confirms that uninsured use the ER instead of accessing normal health care channels any more than those on Maine Care or even those with insurance. I have not seen a study that confirms the hypothesis that we end up paying more for the uninsured than we would if we covered them with health insurance. I know that is the prevailing hype, but I wonder if it is fact.
Perhaps universal coverage on the state level would be a manageable chunk for a government to handle. I am certain that it would not work nationally at this point in history. But how do you explain the failure of Dirigo to fulfill its initial expectations? What would happen if we got rid of a system where a third party pays the medical bills? If individuals paid directly for their health care, would costs be more contained, or would people be bankrupted at a higher rate? What if insurance returned to a catastrophic model where preventative and routine care is paid by the individual, but large procedures, such as cancer, or major surgery would be covered by insurance?
There’s a lot to dislike in our current system. I wish we could talk rationally about the solution.
You began by stating, incorrectly, that none of LePage’s “reforms” had yet kicked in. You then challenged the essential point that the demand for health insurance/health care is inelastic. You seem to have abandoned that illogical argument.
You now claim that there are no studies that show that ER use increases for the uninsured. (I’ve seen the studies but I will not do your homework for you.) Even if the uninsured use the ER (and resulting hospital admissions) at the same rate as the insured, they are less able to pay the resulting bills. It is not a question, as you would have it, of “refusing” to pay the bills: they literally can’t. The single biggest reason for individual bankruptcy is the inability to pay medical bills. Just as I pay more retail because of shoplifting, we both pay more for health insurance because of the uninsured. We have a Medicare system that operates much more efficiently than our private insurance system. The non-profit insurers, like BC/BS, used to operate more efficiently until they were swallowed up by Anthem and others. A small hike in the Medicare tax would bring Medicare’s current funding shortfall under control. Ultimately, we should move to Medicare for all and let the private insurers try to compete. They can’t, which is why they successfully fought competition with a public option in the endgame of passage of the Affordable Care Act. We have crony capitalism at work here. Private insurers and their wholly-owned subsidiary, the GOP, instituted Medicare Part D ( a sweetheart subsidy if there ever was one), insisted that the government not be able to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies, and want to continue exploiting that very inelastic demand for health care/health insurance.
Let’s take your boundless faith in private enterprise to a different sector: why should I, as a bicycle commuter, pay for other people’s highways? Why should I, as an internationalist, pay for other people’s wars? There are some things government does better than private enterprise, and there are some things, like the internet, that would never have advanced as quickly without public subsidies. Let’s take off the anti-government blinders. UPS pays the USPS to deliver mail to rural areas. Recognize that government works well in some areas. Health care insurance is one of them.
I agree with almost everything you wrote, but I would like to point out that there are many of us who are uninsured who have no trouble paying our medical bills in full and in cash because we are fortunate enough to require only health maintenance and the rare emergency room visit. When a private health insurance plan costs upwards of $12 – $14,000 a year before the deductible even kicks in, having to pay a couple thousand dollars a year out of pocket for office visits and diagnostic tests is manageable for most of us. Mind you private and public insurers pay negotiated rates of half to 2/3rds the actual cost of medical care, while people without insurance pay full freight. I actually get a 10% discount for paying cash because my doctor says it takes a long time and a whole lot of bureaucratic red tape to get paid by any insurer. So really, it is only the uninsured folks who pay their bills in full who are NOT being subsidized in one way or another by the consumer or the taxpayer.
Also, regarding uninsured patients utilising emergency rooms more often than those with insurance, from the Kaiser Family Foundation’s “Characteristics of Frequent Emergency Department Users” at http://www.kff.org/insurance/upload/7696.pdf
“…our examination of ED (emergency department) utilization by insurance coverage reveals that the uninsured are not more likely to frequently visit the ED than those who have insurance. The uninsured, while making up roughly 15% of the sample population, are responsible for about 14% of total ED visits and about 12% of aggregate ED expenditures.”
And from KFF’s “Five Facts About the Uninsured” at http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/7806-04.pdf
“…When they receive care, the uninsured pay for more than one‐third of their care out‐of‐pocket and are often charged higher amounts for their care than the insured pay.”
So I suspect that any negative impact of emergency room visits made by the uninsured may have on the rising costs of health care is quite a bit less than we have been led to believe.
By my calculations based on this very limited information (very fuzzy I admit), this would mean that if the uninsured are paying 30% of that 12% in aggregate ED expenditures, that would leave 8% unpaid for.
But if the insurance companies pay a negotiated, let’s say, 65% of the remaining 88% in aggregate ED expenditures for those who are insured, then that would mean that the insurance companies are leaving 23% unpaid for.
Two excellent posts. I know uninsured Mainers who have had a major car crash with life-threatening injuries. The ED visit is a brief one as they are immediately admitted. It is these costs that can bankrupt the uninsured. The second problem leading to bankruptcy is the deferred annual exams or tests that result in a cancer diagnosis long after the point where a less costly treatment might be effective. Thus, it is not enough to simply provide catastrophic care coverage: routine visits can nip the problem in the bud.
The Affordable Care Act addresses both of these issues. Sadly, the insane wing of the Republican Party considers a reform similar to what Republicans championed in the 90s as the coming of the Apocalypse. The other, smaller, wing the the Republican Party (the insanely wealthy wing) let’s this nonsense pass for rationality.
“People in The Netherlands eat a more healthy diet than the typical American, which leads to an overall healthier population as well.”
Logically, then, we should tax the heck out of McDonald’s, Burger King, Pepsi, etc. to encourage healthier eating habits and pay for universal health insurance at the same time.
I’d rather we cut the corn subsidies that keep the fast food industry in cheap corn by-products that allows for a cheap burger, fries and super-sized soda. I’d rather the people educated themselves on the dangers of eating a fast food diet and that we decide to return to a healthier diet without having the government attempt to modify our behavior through the tax law. It would be much more direct and save everyone a bundle if we did not seek the answer to every problem through government action.
But if that won’t happen, then, sure, tax the heck out of them….
Where were we when Chaney “escaped” being a Texan so he could run on the same ticket as Dubya?
Was it a double dose of “Texas medicine” that made this the worst presidency in American history? James Buchanan continues to thank Dubya for lifting that infamy from his name.
Mike Carpenter
Would you rather battle the enemy in Houlton, or Haditha.
Bangor , Boston, or Baghdad?
Your choice.
When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail
Maybe we should have invited the playahs back to New York City for their engagement, no?
There’s plenty more tall buildings with living, breathing, working Americans in them.
The “playahs” as you call them, were not from Iraq. Saddam Hussein was in fact a stalinist, and killed anyone who opposed him. He considered Al Quaeda a threat to his rule. He did not have the means to threaten the US other than his mouth.
He has no concept of fact so you are wasting your breath. He is better off watching donuts in barrels.
Your rantings are starting to make me believe that someone put you in one of those barrels and told you to sit in a corner.
You really need to expand your reading list.
Ah, yes, you are beginning to see the plan.
Will the lightbulb finally go on over your head, or will you continue to try to forget 9/11?
Thank you,Thank you, Thank you. That is exactly what he was like. He was a A hole but a known A hole. Now look at the place.
Are you advocating that we attack Suadi Arabia? That is where the 9-11 attackers were from. Iraq & Afghanistan were red herrings, and now the fools are lining up Iran as the next front.
The U.S. just sold the Saudis 84 new F-15 fighter jets! So much for anyone in the Defense Dep’t giving a crap about where the 9/11 terrorists came from.
Bin Laden was a Saudi. They were all opposed to the current Saudi government and based in Afghanistan. It was the Taliban in the Afghan government who supported Al Quaeda, not the Saudi government. Just because someone is from a particular country does not mean their government is funding them.
Neither you nor I have any way of knowing whether or not their government is funding them. What we do know is that all but four of the 15 hijackers were Saudis.
Supposed hijackers.
And who had a mutual parting of the ways.
Saudi is a reasonably civilized country(for muslims) that has a semblance of friendship with the US as long as they have oil.
Too bad to trash it to engage the enemy.
What enemy was in Baghdad numb nuts? What enemy was in Haditha? The enemy in this case, as in many others, was the Industrial Military Complex. Iraq, as Obama calls it, was a stupid war.
And as Osama predicted, he would get us to spend ourselves to defeat, as he did the Russians…and we fell for it!
But we DID put him in his!
And instead of invading several countries, we could have found him, tried him in an International Court, as an example. But then others would try to do the same with our criminals too: Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Bush.
To Nuremberg, with the lot of them.
But we gave Osama, and many others, what they wanted: Martyrdom! He got his 72 virgins eventually but how many 100 thousands died along the way? Your son/daughter?
Continuous war is good for some corporations, I hear.
Bill Hicks (1961-1994) on war
“There never was a war. “How can you say that, Bill?” Well, a war is when two armies are fighting. So you can see, right there, there never was a war … People say to me, “Hey, Bill, the war made us feel better about ourselves.” Really? What kind of people are these with such low self-esteem that they need a war to feel better about themselves? May I suggest, instead of a war to feel better about yourself, perhaps … sit-ups? Maybe a fruit cup? Eight glasses of water a day?”
You leave your family and friends at home . .put on the uniform of a branch of service . .put YOURSELF in harms way . . then come home and make a statement like you just made.
Back in the 60’s it was IDIOTIC to think the communists were going to invade California. 58,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese died . . all because of a BRIGHT AND SHINING LIE!
Your xenophobic and paranoid view of the world is extremely obvious.
Ah, but for the youth to have been able to do what you accuse me of!
This is an absolute insult to a Nam vet. As one, I have a couple of questions for you.
1.) Have you served in a war zone? 2.)Did the Vietnamese attack America? 3.)Did Saddam Hussein attack America?
Do you believe that Vietnam or Iraq was going to attack America and that we would be battling them on our soil?
If you do not believe that to be the case then why did we lose 58,000 of our brave men and women in Vietnam and almost 5000 in Iraq. For what?
You have no clue what so ever and for you to ask Michael Carpenter to make a choice is ludicrous. He has been there, he has done that and he understands that American blood and treasure is precious. Except when the politicians decide when it is not precious and would rather exchange it for oil or some other irrelevant cause. We need to put our country, our flag, our pledge, our God and our Constitution first and not secondary to some neo-con vision.
You’ve ALREADY forgotten 9/11, I take it.
Listen real close and pay attention: Iraq had absolutely nothing, zero, zilch nadda, to do with 9/11. Not a damn thing. Sure Hussein was a real B-tard but the real crazy muslim radical types didn’t show up there until after we took hime out.
Here you had 20, radical Muslim’s mostly Saudi national’s, where Wahhabi is the standard, attack us on 9/11. If any country were responsible which one would it be? Saudi Arabia. If the attack by 20 people did not constitute an attack by a nation, it would warrant police action and intervention using CIA and special operations to target these groups. It did not warrant invading countries, remaining there and rebuilding them. The US needs to use it’s resources wisely and Iraq or Afghanistan did not constitute a threat to the US. Was Saddam Hussein the enemy. Did the Taliban attack us? I take it, if someone slapped you from behind you would slap everyone around you back because you were angry. You did not answer the question about whether you put your life on the line for your country or are you satisfied with everyone else doing your work for you? Don’t ever insult a vet again
or you will have no place to park in this country.
In your rage, you have mistaken a difference of opinion for insult.
I fully support our vets, even you.
You still did not answer the question did you serve this country? I guess what you are saying is you would rather have someone go to another country to die for your freedom. You asked Michael Carpenter about him making a “choice”. During the Vietnam war most of us HAD NO CHOICE the government made it for us in the form of the draft. So I guess your choice would have been Canada. Asking a vet to make a choice after they have served is a deliberate insult and you are a fool.
Sounds like you would have stayed home from Nam if you could have.
No, because I was taught when your country calls you serve. It was coming home to people like you who spit on us vets that caused the problem. There was no honor or respect shown for Nam vets, but now everyone supports us….in your nightmares maybe.
As the adage goes ..we will never forget and never regret.
You still never answered my question…what have you done for your country? Kick the can down the road!
As one Psychologist from Chicago put it.. Nam vets are like the native American Indians who had their land taken away from them, when they came home their land, their country was gone. They have a deep conviction and have a dedication to the core principles of this country.
You sure are angry.
WHY?
Every empire has fallen once it goes abroad in search of enemies. How might an Iraqi have
reached our shores to do us harm?
Bush I left Iraq because he realized that an occupation would be a brutal, endless affair that would actually increase American insecurity.
Michael- Sometime after WWII we became a seller of war and war machines. We have to start wars to keep General Dynamics, Boeing, and BIW functioning. The dogs of war have to keep putting the bite on someone or there would be no need to build more missles, planes, or ships. I see Iran as the next recipient of our “crusade for freedom”.
To Michael Carpenter . . your comments are right on the money . . could not agree with you more! Also . . as two tour Nam Vet myself . . welcome home brother!
As the son and step-son of Vietnam veterans I gotta say welcome home to you as well
Well said Mr. Inman. The current system – over-regulation, experimental programs (Dirigo), expansion of medical welfare far beyond its origninal intent – is about to collapse. It will take years to fully implement these new reforms but by 2014, we should be close to where other states are – much cheaper insurance and more people in the private market.
Wake me up when we get there zzzzzzzzzzzz.
Earl: I’m not a fan of MaineCare or Dirigo…They were both supposedly helpful programs which once again lined the pockets of those who least needed the dough. However, I’m not in favor of allowing insurance lobbyists pen Maine’s healthcare laws either.
How about a program which helps those in need, doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to taxpayers, limits health care charges, and doesn’t line the pockets of special interests, lawmakers, or the already wealthy?????? Hahahahahahahahahahaha…man, THAT was funny…
Elmer: I’m with ya on this one…How is it that the state expects people who have been drinking to know when to say when, but not people who are tired? It would seem that people who are tired would have a better handle on decision making skills (not being impaired by alcohol), and would therefore be MORE negligent when they choose to drive/continue driving than someone impaired by alcohol…
It is truly amazing and very telling that there is no coverage of Obama signing NDAA into law!
Indefinite detention of Americans!
And this paper doesn’t cover it?!
It’s over…thanks Barry
Don’t forget that this whole thing started as a knee jerk reaction to 9/11. Our liberties have been slipping away ever since.
Michael Carpenter, Elmer Morin: good letters.
The hindsight of a Vietnam Veteran has a more valuable opinion on this whole Iraq thing than a whole bunch of people who never even so much as put on a boy scout uniform. Current veteran’s of The Iraq theatre also have opinions that should be valued. Even If I disagree with it, at least they put their body where there mouth was. Iraq and 9/11 shouldn’t even be in the same article or internet blog.