The weighty cost of health care is driving equally weighty political debates, both in Maine as state government struggles with a budget shortfall in the Department of Health and Human Services, and nationally as the Affordable Care Act emerges as a key issue in this year’s presidential campaigns.
Although the cost of health insurance has gotten top billing, since it has hamstrung businesses from investing in other activities which could create jobs, at the heart of the discussion is the cost of care. Programs that encourage avoiding unhealthy activities — smoking, eating fatty foods — and encourage healthy activities — regular exercise, preventive medicine — have the potential to lower costs.
Preventive care, most everyone agrees, is a low-cost, high-yield approach. One of the highest yielding preventive steps health care management can take is to reduce unwanted pregnancies. A woman whose own health is poor, or whose age might cause a risky pregnancy, or whose family, relationship or economic circumstances threaten to adversely affect the pregnancy may require substantial health services.
And then there are the babies born to mothers and families not prepared for them. Their first five years of life may require medical and other services provided on the government’s dime.
All of which makes the objection to requiring health insurance companies to cover the cost of contraception perplexing. The Affordable Care Act requires all insurance plans to provide contraception at no cost to members. That provision of the law goes into effect in the latter half of this year. Insurance plans for religion-affiliated institutions — hospitals, nursing homes, schools, but not places of worship — will have to also provide contraception beginning late next year.
The law gave such religious institutions an extra year to comply.
Opposing the provision are Catholic church officials, including Bishop Richard Malone of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Maine. In a letter to church members, the bishop wrote: “With the stroke of a pen, the [Obama] administration has violated our right to act in keeping with our conscience. As a community of faith, we must act on this matter courageously, decisively and promptly.”
Mark Mutty, public affairs director for the diocese, argued that the church, which operates or funds schools, day care centers and health care facilities, “would have to violate its tenets to pay for and provide that service.”
Some Catholics, the bishop must realize, use contraception, despite the church’s prohibition on it. And insurance plans cover all sorts of services that one may or may not endorse.
Some plans cover therapies with which some people disagree on principle or are merely skeptical about their efficacy. Just because they are covered by a plan to which one’s employer subscribes which includes some objectionable coverage should not lead to elimination of that coverage for all. The law is not requiring that anyone use contraceptives, just that they be available.
President Barack Obama’s signature legislation aimed to lower health insurance costs and the cost of care. It will be a major issue in the contest between the president and the Republican presidential nominee. We can argue about how well the law will achieve its aims. But there is little reason to dispute that making safe and widely used contraception available to more people is good, preventive medicine that saves lives and saves money.



Maybe insurance companies should be compelled to reimburse customers for buying vegetables and gym memberships as well. Absolutely ridiculous.
As usual, a very poor analogy. Not ridiculous, very important and relevant — and a net money saver in the long run.
That analogy came from the second paragraph of the editorial. As usual there’s no consistency, just the usual left wing obsession with free condoms.
Maybe those who chose to use contraception rather than have children they can’t afford, will not have to rely on welfare. food stamps,etc.Children should be born into homes that want them.If one wants lots of children, fine, but those who don’t should be able to use contraception.
Touche. But in context, encouraging other (note) policies is not mandating.
What obsession? Free?
Okay, I’ll run with your analogy. Since my insurance “reimbuses” me for the cost of medicines which keep my alive and relatively healthy, why then should they not provide for contraception as well? The argument has been brought up because groups like the Catholic Church don’t want their insurance plans providing contraception. My take on it is that if you don’t believe in contraception, don’t use it, and be prepared to cover ALL of the costs associated with the consequences should they occur. If the Church is truly about conscience of faith and trusts its teachings, its members will make the correct decision for themselves.
Only a democrat would even think of attacking religion. It’s okay to sell guns to drug king pins, it’s okay to pay the mortgage of the irresponsible homeowner, it’s okay to waste billions on green energy scams, but don’t even think about practicing religion. Oh yea, it was the Obamas who were spotted going back to church recently, just in time for an election. What a hippo..
There is no attack on religion. You think this provision was purposefully included to undercut Obama’s own religion? Are you that paranoid?
It was really a power play. Big Gov’s gonna tell ya’ll where the bear sits, and ain’t nobody gonna be able to hide from the Taxman!
Obama is only a religious practicioner when it benefits him politically. Many people who voted for him now realize that and won’t be pulling for him next time.
It will give the supremes another reason to send obama care packing.
balony, tell me. all of you who claim to have such ethics, who will you vote for, a serial adulterer or the member of what the religious reich calls a cult?
Typical lib response. Mormonism is a cult?
typical conservative lack of comprehension
what part of “the member of what the religious reich calls a cult?” do I need to explain?
its so called christian conservatives calling it a cult, laddie, not liberals
Democrats aren’t the ones calling mormonism a cult. Democrats aren’ the ones claiming moral superiority yet voting for a guy that has had 3 wives, some of whom he has cheated on. You want to talk about “hippo”s? Start by looking in the mirror.
Some, especially religious conservatives, seem to think so. Are you making these opinions political? Ironic?
All religions are cults.
Things besides religion have “cult followings,” indicative of the state of mind of the individual, to the point that their actions manifest their ideals. Jesus did many good things in his life, according to the stories atributed to him. Things such as healing the sick, feeding and clothing the poor, forgiving trangressions and debts, loving your neighbor, and above all loving God… What is wrong with trying to do things the way Jesus wanted us to do them? If Jesus is a cult, I’ll follow that lead.
Healing the sick, comforting the distraught, ministering to the destitute and respecting others are universally recognized as good. One doesn’t need to worship someone in order to perform those universal acts of civilized people
Your definition of civilized may be different than mine…
I would hope that everybody’s definition of civilized behavior would include the above at a minimum.
Anything started by some wild eyed out cast saying you just gotta trust him that he found, but, then lost, big solid gold tablets under a rock in Palmyra, New York (a place with few redeeming features and no decent motels) upon which the rules of a religion, starting in 421 AD were written, is suspect. It’s definitely suspect when your god decides polygamy is a great idea just when several nubile young ladies join your “religion”. For the record: John Smith’s wife wasn’t buying that one either. Then there is that truly strange document the “Book of Mormon” claiming Indians were really Arabs and were the original Mormons which had migrated from Jerusalem. Oh, yeah and there are some secrets of the golden tablets that have still not been revealed.
These like all religions are the trappings of a cult.
If so, far from the first. Even several of the vaunted “Founding Fathers” were religious practici0ners (if at all) if it benefitted them politically. And how do you know how the President practices (or doesn’t practice) his faith? Are you his Father Confessor?
“Ye shall know them by their fruits.”
Before writing an editorial on the Catholic position on contraception, it would be helpful to have a better understanding of the church’s teaching on this issue. It is not relevant that many Catholics choose to use contraception. And saying that some people object to some therapies because they disagree on principle or find they are not effective completely misses the target.
For people who do not really know the reasons why the Catholic Church considers contraception a grave sin, it should be enough to know that the church has always held this to be so. To force the Catholic church to use its money, given to the church from its faithful members, to pay insurance premiums that cover the cost and procurement of contraception is a clear violation of their religious rights. And anyone who takes the first amendment right to freedom of religion should be concerned that the government is doing this.
THe argument is not about whether contraception is a good thing or a bad thing to the general public. The argument is that to the Catholic Church it is a grave sin and they should not be forced to provide it through their health plans.
Ah, but the fact that many Catholics do use contraception is relevant.
No it’s not.
if you take money from the government , you follow the rules
This mandate applies equally to all employers, regardless of whether or not they take money from the government. I’ve seen this claim in several places now, and honestly, it’s bizarre. Where did it start?
I believe that religious groups running religion based enterprises such as a kindergarten, that hire only believers are exempt as long as they do not accept federal funds. Perhaps the Catholic Church can forego federal funding and require all hospital staff to be Catholic. Then they wouldn’t have to have the government enforce what they can’t .
Again, the presence or lack of federal funding has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. It is a complete non-sequitor.
In order to be exempt from this mandate, an organization must meet all 4 of the following criteria:
1. It must “have as its primary purpose the inculcation of religious values as its purpose.”
2. It must “primarily employ persons who share its religious tenets.”
3. It must “primarily serve people who share its religious tenets.”
4. It must “be a not-for-profit.”
Reception, or non-reception, of federal funds, is not a factor whatsoever. Most Catholic schools, for instance, do not receive federal funds. Most Catholic schools meet 3 of the 4 criteria here, but fail on #3. As such, they are bound by this mandate.
You have been informed. If you continue to claim that this has anything to do with organizations reception of taxpayer funding, you are, and I cannot really put it more clearly, a deliberate liar.
And catholic hospitals, for example, probably do not meet any of those criteria with the exeption of the last one.
It’s an ethical question not a legal question: If you accept Federal funding why should you be exempt from following federal laws.
Big deal! St. Joseph’s hospital doesn’t qualify under these standards! What’s your point?
FavaBeans doesn’t have a point. S/he is just incensed that the Federal government has the temerity to make rules that override the Church’s dogma.
The Church is not seeking to force this issue on anybody except for it’s own employees. Even so, employees are free to use contraception, the Church just should not be expected to pay for it. There are a multitude of options available, and people currently working for organizations managed by the Church today are doubtlessly having no trouble finding them if they so desire.
The only entity forcing it’s values on another here is the US Government.
No it is not. Nobody is forcing Catholics to use contraceptives. They are just being required to be part of the insurance risk pool. The Catholic Church gets my uncomplaining tax dollars for their schools and pregnancy centers, which I don’t believe in. It would be nice if the Church would reciprocate and stop acting like jerks about the insurance.
If anybody attempted to force me to pay for insurance coverage against my conscience, I’d simply refuse to. That is exactly what the Church is threatening to do. It will close down all its hospitals and schools if it has to. Needless to say, the Church won’t have to do that because the High Court will strike down Obamacare’s mandate.
The entire argument here is whether or not the exemptions go far enough in protecting the consciences of religious employers. That St. Joseph’s hospital does not qualify under the current exemptions is a given. The question being posed is “should they?” Just clarifying what the issue is here.
If the catholic church wants to claim a “conscience” as a basis for whether or not to provide routine birth control for women, I already think you are on p-r-e-t-t-y thin ice. But answer me this, should St. Joseph’s, for example, be exempt from any federal provision as it relates to relationships between the employer and the employee (like OSHA) simply because you can follow a tenuous thread back to the catholic church?
Your solution is not so simple because it amounts to a policy of discrimination against religious groups who operate hospitals.
How?
And that might be the one argument that trumps the infringement on freedom of religion argument. But the Federal Government might want to consider the long term implications if the Catholic church should withdraw from their part in the charity business because of this moral conundrum.
It is relevant if it’s quite obvious (and their private business) that the majority of Catholics are Canon Law scowlaws, making The Church hypocritical to the extreme (so what’s new). OK, so it has no legal bearing but once again the credibilty of the Catholic rulers is greatly decreased.
The Catholic church may be hypocritical in its practice. So are many other people of faith and those of no faith. It is irrelevant.
The US Constitution enshrined this little clause in the First Amendment that says government can not prohibit the free exercise of religion. This has been interpreted many times over to mean the government cannot compel a faith to violate its tenets.
Well, some catholics might use prostitutes, maybe the government should force the Church to provide clinics to treat STD’s or maybe some catholic use hard drugs should the church provide clean needles ?
Weird analogy. Maybe some, but I hope not as many as use contraceptives. And, many cases of STDs do not involve prostitutes. I’m not familiar with Cathloic institutional policy on treament of STDs or smart needle use. It would be interesting to all if these policies were stated up front. Do Catholics limit “treatment” to the confessional?
Using your logic, Mormons should be allowed to have multiple wives as well. You base your entire argument simply on the longevity a religious group has believed something, and couch it in “religious freedom”. Well if the catholic church still believes that blacks are less than human, should they be allowed to own slaves? They can back it up with scripture.
No religous organization is above the law.
It’s not about how long the church has held this position. It is about freedom of religion. There is nothing to stop a Mormon from having as many wives as he wants–but only one of those wives can be recognized by the state in a civil ceremony. This is not about the legality of an issue. It is about forcing participation in an act that goes against the religious conscience of the church. It is more along the lines of telling Mormons they must pay for coffee for any person employed in their charities, even though Mormons abstain from drinking coffee. Their employees are certainly welcome to buy their own coffee–but the government cannot force the Mormon employer to buy it for the employee.
Nothing to stop a Mormon from having as maniy wives as possible? Outlawed in the mainline Mormon Church (through a vision) in order to gain statehood for Utah. Of course there are the scofflaws who went to Mexico and who currently populate Warren Jeffs’ “kingdom” in Hildale UT and Colorado City AZ. Are you saying Jeffs is “legal”.
Again another bad analogy. I’ve never had an employer pay for my coffee. And who’s about to institute that? Way out of the ballpark.
How can mandating health care coverage be construed as “forced participation”? No one is making anyone utilize birth control, if the employees choose not to utilize it they don’t have to. Perhaps the church should only hire catholics, because as we all know they do not utilize birth control.
It’s not about a person using birth control or not. It’s about who pays for the birth control.
Think of it like this: If a person over the age of 21 buys alcohol for a minor, and the minor gets drunk and crashes his car and dies, or kills someone else–isn’t the person who supplied the alcohol culpable for the end result? If the church pays for the contraception, then they are guilty before god of the result.
Well that’s a shame, it seems like the vast majority of catholic parishoners are going to be in big trouble come judgement day! The answer is really quite simple, if the catholic church wishes to continue to discriminate against women, then simply forgo all the federal funding that they are sucking up. While we are at it if we removed the tax exempt status that all churches enjoy in the US, it would be a huge benefit to local budgets with property taxes alone.
And no law is above God. This is a hostile takeover by the federal government, and it needs to stop. Of course Obama is trying to find an efficient way of handling healthcare in this country by lowering costs, but there are a number of things we don’t do that in themselves lack efficiency but we do so because it preserves liberty! This only continues the trend of more and more people becoming affected by more government influence every year. If you want a good example of where this is heading, read up on China a little bit. They live by efficiency and have little regard for personal liberties.
I agree with on the point of liberty, people should have the individual liberty to use contraception if they wish. The catholic church is an outlier on this issue, their own congregation chooses to use birth control against their bishop’s orders. The indignant reaction to this law is incredibly hypocritical.
The insurance premiums would ONLY be used to cover the cost and procurement of contraception if the member chose to do so. Rather than believing in their teachings, the Catholic Church wants to “regulate” its members into what it narrowly believes as “moral” behavior. Never mind that the Church’s doctrine on birth control is simply about encouraging Catholics to have large families and expand the population to the point where they have numerical superiority and can then control government. Guess that little fact slid right by ya.
There is nothing to stop a person from using contraception if they want. The point is forcing the church to pay for it–it’s like aiding and abetting something the church believes is immoral. World domination? That’s funny.
Imagine you are an atheist. Wouldn’t you object to being forced to pay for, say, someone’s religious school education? Yes! And I would object to forcing you to pay for it. This knife of government compelling a religious organization to do something contrary to their faith cuts every which way, folks.
Simple solution: don’t accept federal funding.
Federal funding has nothing to do with it. Employers are bound by this regardless of whether or not they receive federal funding. I have no idea how this ridiculous lie got started. Do you seriously imagine yourself to have heard, during the debate over Obamacare, any notion that the health insurance mandate only applied to employers who received Federal funding?
Again, I ask you, how many doctors at these Catholic facilities were educated using student loans paid for with tax dollars?
Almost all.
Fava, you have entered the discussion late. I know federal funding has nothing to do with the insurance mandate. I was responding to a comment by Wandini where he claimed that the church should not have to use it’s money to support something it did not believe in. I said that the church was not using just its own money that it lobbied and received federal funding and therefore should accept federal mandates that went with that money.
Can’t you use school vouchers for Catholic School? Im asking cause i don’t know if you can or not…
In those states that allow vouchers, yes, you can use them in religious schools.
I’m an atheist. I pay taxes that go for transportation, some books and services in Catholic schools.
Right, but many religious people pay for atheists to ride buses and use transportation in the schools of their choice as well.
And, the issue of whether tax payer money can be used for transportation of Catholic students, or services is Catholic schools is one that has come before the Supreme Court and will come before it again.
I pay taxes for your union dues so I know the feeling
The Church would pay a premium for it’s health insurance and I bet adding contraceptive coverage would add little or more likely nothing to the cost of that premium. It is not about cost but about their desire to force their morality on it’s employees. Employees that may or may not be Catholics.
Catholic Hospitals do not hire just Catholics to work there but would require that those employees do not get contraceptive coverage.
No, they would say nothing about whether their employees access contraception. But they would say that their money should not pay for the employee’s contraception. It is not about forcing morality on anyone. The Catholic church is not burning birth control pills, IUDs, and condoms in the village square. Everyone is free to use contraception as their conscience and preferences dictate. But don’t ask the church to buy them for you. That crosses the line.
Should the Catholic Church be be providing ED coverage for single men or men that are in their second or third marriage? Most, if not all, healthcare policies cover ED now, I doubt that is untrue for Catholic Hospitals and charities.
Both of those examples would be against their morality, one being sex outside of marriage and the other being Adultrous behavior since you cannot get a divorce in the Catholic Church.
ED is a medical condition that can be alleviated by medication.
But providing insurance for a single man or a man on his second or third marriage would violate the Catholic Church’s own taboos of sex outside of marriage or in the case of someone in second marriage having an adulterous affair.
Why would a second marriage be adulterous? Because the Catholic Church says you cann ot get a divorce from someone once you have been married in the eyes of the Lord so any sex not with your first wife would be adultery.
So, if providing medication to alleviate a medical condition that allows sex outside of a marriage or adultery is ok but providing birth control would be forcing the Church to pay for something they are against?
Does the Catholic Church currently provide healthcare coverage for a man who has divorced his first wife and started a new family with his second wife?
Or does the Catholic Church deny coverage to his second wife and his illegimate children because the Catholic Church does not recognize divorce so therefore the man cannot be married to the second women in the eyes of the church?
Yes, but you miss the point. People keep trying to say the church is forcing its morality on others. It isn’t. It is simply saying that being forced to pay for contraceptive devices goes against their faith–it’s more as if the government and/or society is trying to force its morality on the church.
Now, if the church was forced to pay for the man’s divorce, that would involve the church in a similar situation.
The church is not saying “we don’t want to pay for contraception because we think this person is not moral.” They are saying “we don’t want to pay for contraception because we think contraception is evil.”
So the Catholic Church is ok in paying for something that would allow sex outside of marriage (curing ED in a single male) or adultery (curing ED in a man who is engaged in an adulterous second marriage) but their moral compass is messed up if they provide contraception to a married couple?
Ah but the Church is quite willing to accept support from the federal government and any other non religious organization or person using part of that funding to pay salaries of non-Catholic employees, serve the non Catholic public and in short act like a non religious organization . But then they want to restrict access to contraceptives by not paying for it. And you don’t see the ethical problem with this behavior.
I’m still interested to hear why the CC considers contraception a grave sin. You sound well informed on the subject…. Do you mind?
I could be mistaken, but I believe that the Catholic Church’s stance on this is that in the Bible, followers are instructed to “go forth and multiply,” which they’ve taken to mean that god wants them to have as many babies as possible. And since god wants them to multiply, and it’s his choice as to when babies are conceived, taking measures to prevent that is against his will. Therefore a sin.
Please bear in mind that I in no way support either stance. Personally, I think the anti-contraception stance is an ancient one whose original purpose was to increase the population of congregations, and thereby the power of the Church. In other words, it was about power, control and money.
The most authoritative summary may be found in the Encyclical document “Humanae Vitae”, which is a relatively short read. If you are sincerely interested, I suggest giving it a read. Of course, the reasons for the Church’s teaching are completely tangential to this issue, which is in reality one of basic free exercise of religion.
This issue has nothing to do with free exercise of religion and everything to do with the Catholic Church trying to force others to follow their tenets. This has to do with the right to be free from someone else’s religion
Since when have you been forced to practice the Catholic faith?? To paraphrase a comment that has been seen on this board before: Don’t like the Catholic faith? Then don’t become one.
This is about non-Catholics working for a Catholic organization.
In a short version, the church teaches that sexuality was created by god to perform two functions. The first is so that “husband and wife become one flesh.” The second is so that the couple will bear fruit. To make either of those actions impossible is considered a sin against god’s will for human sexuality. To have sex that is deliberately and artificially rendered sterile contravenes god’s design for sex for the couple.
It is not about having as many babies as you can. It’s about having a sex life and a heart attitude that is open to the possibility of new life.
Look, this is just the Catholic church’s teaching. Nobody has to believe it. But a truly devout and obedient Catholic does follow this, and should not be forced to violate their belief in the inherent evil of contraception by being forced to pay directly for it.
The Church also enthusiastically lobbies for and gets federal funding. Those Catholics receiving health insurance that included access to birth control simply need to be personally responsible and not buy or use the contraceptives offered in the insurance. It is not the responsibility of the federal government to enforce religious responsibility for the Church.
Insurance companies will pass the cost along–“unfortunately, you who pay and do not use your insurance frivolously are paying for others” is a quote one will get from the insurance company and from the superintendent of insurance.
Your point? Of course, but think of the savings for all in the long run.
Excellent editorial, good points.
there are some religions that claim blood transfusions are against their conscience. I suppose if you worked there and needed blood, it would be ok for them to follow their conscience
the only entities that have to provide are ones getting tax dollars.
and bleating about what the church considers a sin? better read a history of the church, a good many positions have evolved over the past. some people just like to feel persecuted
This mandate applies equally to all employers, whether or not they receive tax funding.
Big deal, FB. How many of the physicians who work at these hospitals were educated using student loans funded by taxpayers, anyway?
Seriously? Well I know for a fact that the Chancery employs a couple of people who hold MBAs. They probably took out student loans, too. Therefore the Chancery should not get an exemption to this mandate? I cannot follow your argument to any other logical conclusions.
More and more people, less and less resources. Common sense should always trump Catholic ideology. Politics and religion, can the hypocrisy get any bigger?
The Church’s position on BC is derived from the same fundamentals that drive its position on abortion. If you are against abortion because the church tells you to be but you practice BC, you are a hypocrite in the highest form and will burn in hell for all eternity, well, at least according to the church you will.
Ah, but birth control/contraception does not equal abortion.
Actually, it does. They both stem from the same fundamental belief and are both equally condemned. You do either & die w/o repenting, according to the church, you’re burning for eternity, side by side. So, yes, if you are against abortion because you’re a Catholic & you practice BC, you are a flaming hypocrite.
….
I didn’t know pregnancy and fertility was a disease that needs to be treated with contraceptives and sterilization. What is coming next? Forced sterilization and China’s one-child-per-family policy? I suppose too that abortion is included in the plan, but the administration refuses to talk about this devious aspect. Some of the so-called contraceptives that are supposed to prevent pregnancy under the preventative health care plan actually can terminate a pregnancy that has already taken place. In other words, rather than simply prevent pregnancy they cause an abortion. Now Obama wants to force people of good conscience and the Church to pay for these so-called preventative treatments in violation of the 1st Amendment Right to freedom of religion and conscience.
One more thing: Why is the Obama administration so adamant about keeping a check on our population when our legal residents are not procreating sufficiently to maintain our current population? Think about it. This effort to stem the population doesn’t make any sense unless our politician get something our of it, like votes from the Hispanic bloc and others who support amnesty for illegal aliens. Saul Alinsky’s revolution is well under way!
Whawell: I suggest you go for an unaccompanied home birth before you suggest that pregnancy and birth do not need medical attention.
My entire point is this: Those who want coverage for contraceptives and sterilization should pay for it through a health plan that covers these. Those who do not want this coverage should be allowed to select a plan that does not cover these services. I thought this was a free country!
I don’t want or need a hip replacement. I’ll probably never need one. If you ever need one I’m glad my insurance helps make your life better and more enjoyable. Team work, whawell, it’s a great concept.
If there’s an insurance policy available out there that covers all health needs but hip replacement, I should not be obligated to purchase any other policy if that is the one I desire. That was the way it was in the past until Obamacare happened. Where’s the freedom here?
Define free as you understand it.
Look I won’t comment any further after this because this discussion is really not going anywhere. I’ll end by saying the 1st Amendment Right of freedom of religion and freedom of conscience may not be violated by anyone, including the government. When I allude to freedom, I mean political freedom permitted and limited by the Constitution, except for those unalienable rights of man (ex: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) no constitution is permitted to subvert. The 1st Amendment of the Constitution states in part,”Congress SHALL MAKE NO LAW (including provisions of Obamacare)…prohibiting the free exercise thereof (religion)”.
Whawell: the insurance mandate is not preventing you from worshiping as you please or procreating as many children as you please. It is not invading your private religious or sexual life. It’s simply providing birth control to those people that want it. The mandate doesn’t even say that the Catholic Church has to provide this insurance if they don’t want hire and serve the general public. The Church can opt out of insurance any time they want by serving only Catholics, hiring only Catholics and making religion the focus of their endeavor.
The problem is that the Catholic Church wants it both ways. They want to limit access to something they think is a sin but still want to hire non Catholics and serve a non Catholic population.
I disagree. The narrow exemption in the new insurance mandate does indeed prevent certain persons and organizations from exercising their freedom of religion by coercing them to do something against their religious conscience, such as, as in this case, making them pay for contraceptives, abortifacients, and sterilizations. While the ability to worship may not be directly affected, the ability to exercise one’s religion is still being limited.
While the mandate does not mention the Catholic Church or some Jewish Synagogues per so, it does nonetheless impact them and other individuals who cannot comply on account of their religious beliefs. Also, any employer who hires more than 50 workers is required by law to provide health insurance. With the additional mandate under Obamacare for all insurance policies to provide this new coverage, the employer has no choice but to close down his enterprise. Closing down hospitals or limiting services to adherents only is totally unacceptable to Catholics and to other non-Catholic organizations. Catholic charitable organizations, unlike Jehovah’s Witness’s organizations, freely offer their goods and services to all, regardless of religious affiliation. It’s called “charity”, helping to provide for needy people.
Geez, where do you work, whawell? I’ve never worked anyplace where I, the employee, got to dictate what kind of coverage my employer provided. I did get to decide which, if any, family members I covered. But I couldn’t, as a non-smoker, opt out of the cost of the insurance plan my employer provided that went to provide coverage for emphysema, cancer, throat disease, or hypertension. Nor could I opt out of the cost of providing mammograms and OB/GYN services for the female employees, or substance abuse treatment for those with addiction problems.
That’s right, unless you are provided with a choice, your employer chooses an insurance policy for you. If you don’t like the coverage your employer offers, you are free to opt out of it, and get your own policy. I’m not BS’ing you. IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME, ASK YOUR OWN EMPLOYER. But now Obama are wants to change all that.
No one on this forum had claimed that pregnancy and fertility is a disease that needs to be treated.
Birth Control does not ‘treat’ pregnancy or fertility but instead allows a couple to plan when to have children so that they will be able to support and care fro them better. You must think that it is wrong for a couple to plan for a child instead of just hoping they don’t get pregnant at a bad time or should a married couple abstain from sex until everything is right for a child to be brought into this world?
Fifty percent of all pregnancies are unplanned, 40% of those unplanned pregnancies end in abortion. Free or low cost birth control would lower the number of unplanned pregnancies and thus lower the number of abortions provided in this country.
Pro-life people who equate contraception as the same as abortion are not using their brains. The ONLY way to decrease the number of abortions is to decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies. The only way to decrease unwanted pregnancies is thru comprehesive sex education and cheap, effective contraception, which pro-life groups are against. Outlawing abortion and abstinance only sex education programs will not work, never has and never will.
If people want contraceptives, let them buy a health plan that will provided them free of charge or let them buy them on their own. Right now Obama is forcing people to pay for insurance coverage they neither desire nor want by mandating all health plans offer this coverage. That mandate is not necessary and is in violation of the 1st Amendment Right to freedom of religion and conscience. Let people make their own choices, and stop the social engineering. All this time I have been reading your posts, I thought you were a liberal!
I neither want nor desire healthcare coverage for ED in men but it is covered by most insurance policies.
Why should single women and men without ED pay healthcare premiums for something they will never need (single women) or may not need (men without ED)?
In order to be exempt from the contraception mandate, an organization must meet all 4 of the following criteria:1. It must “have as its primary purpose the inculcation of religious values as its purpose.”2. It must “primarily employ persons who share its religious tenets.”3. It must “primarily serve people who share its religious tenets.”4. It must “be a not-for-profit
Catholic Hospitals, for example, do not meet 3 out of 4 of those criteria, most probably receive money from the Federal government thru Medicare payments, hire Catholics and non-Catholics, treat Catholics and non-Catholics and do not try to bring you over to the Catholic Faith. They should therefore provide all employees with contraceptive healthcare (beside some medical issues such as painful menstrel cycles can be relieved by use of the Pill) and any employee who does not want to use contraception does not have to.
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Actually China’s policy on one couple-one child is not a failure. It accomplished what it was intended to do, bring China’s unsustianable population growth under control.
What also happened was the Law of Unintended Consequences, Chinese culture values boy babies over girl babies because men were considered better at providing for their parents as they grow old. That resulted in a lot of female babies becoming victims of infanticide.
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It may be a failed policy in regards to female to male ration in China but again it was a drastic measure to try to get China’s exploding population under control. It secceeded very well in that goal which was the only goal of the policy. If China had not gotten the population growth under control we would still be telling our kids to clean their plates because of all the starving children in China.
We could look at India that has no such policy, or any policy to control population growth, and see that they are due to pass the population total of China by 2050. India’s population is poor and getting poorer due to the over population whereas China may begin to reverse the trend of bby girls being abandoned as the population becomes more affluent.
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India’s population is not getting poorer. India is far better off than it has been in the past 3 to 4 decades. You need to brush up on this point.
India is a very poor country with the vast majority of Indians living in poverty. The metropolitan areas are getting better but you will still find large areas of extreme poverty even in the biggest metropolitan areas.
If you believe in the effectiveness of contraceptives as much as say, put your money where your mouth is by furnishing them to others. If you are concerned about infanticide, tell Obama to stop peddling abortion causing contraceptives with everyone’s money.
By definition infanticide means the killing of an infant.
By definition an infant has to actually be born alive and take a breath.
By definition contraceptives help to prevent fertilization or attachment of fertilized egg into the uterus wall.
By definition an abortiion is defined as the termination of pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo prior to viability. An abortion can occur spontaneously, in which case it is usually called a miscarriage or it can be purposely induced.
None of those definitions allow your statement to have any factual truth to it, only hyperbole and hysteria.
Look I don’t draw the line between those who are out of the womb and those who are still in the womb. They are all children, and undoubtedly human beings to boot. Reason: Had your mother aborted you just after conception you would not be alive today. Nor would she have been able to give you birth. Your life is so unique that it can never be repeated. Even Identical twins, as similar as they are, are still unique.
One more thing: had your mother given you away for implantation in another woman’s womb (thus making the new carrier a surrogate mother) you would be alive if the implantation succeeded and STILL be the same person because the nourishment and the environment a mother provides a child in her womb does not change who the child is anymore than the brand of formula a baby is fed changes who the baby is or the lost of a finger through an accident changes who a hapless victim is. Circumstances might change how a person feels but does not change who in essence a person is.
So, yes, if you are concerned about infanticide, you should be concerned about all human life regardless of stage of development. Our forefathers understood this even though it was not clear to them when exactly human life began. That’s why they stated, ” We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness (notice the order in which these Rights are listed and how they are capitalized). For your information, if a right is UNALIENABLE it may not be replaced by another right.
Get your facts straight. This is about way more than that. This is a very scary slippery slope. I believe the Church is the largest purveyor of private health services in the country–BUT there are plenty of other places to get birth control. The issue here is religious freedom–but this Administration is bent on taking away all our rights–religious or not. The way things are going, we’ll soon be arrested by the Thought Police for eating twinkies.
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Maybe if the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t want to supply contraceptives as per the law, they should get out of the business of health insurance…
The Catholic Church currently provides 1/6th of all healthcare in the US. Is the government really ready to absorb all of that if they are banished from that sector, as you so desire?
The point was on health insurance, not health provision.
It is patently ridiculous for the Church to accept federal funding hire non-Catholics, then tell the government to restrict non-believers access to a medication because the Church has deemed it a “sin”. The problem is not the government. The problem is that the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize the stupidity of its tenets and its arrogance for insisting the government is responsible for enforcing them.
Do you think that Catholic employers who do NOT receive federal funding should be exempt? Because they’re not…
The issue here is not whether or not you agree with the Church’s teaching on birth control. The issue here is whether or not this violates the 1st Amendment, and accordingly, also the RFRA (The Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993).Mark my words, this IS going to be heard before the Supreme Court, where it will die, just as the Obama Administration’s attempted power grab did 2 weeks ago in the Hosanna-Tabor vs EEOC case, where the administration argued that there is no ministerial exception to the employment discrimination laws. (i.e. “Hey, that Synagogue hasn’t hired any Muslims as Rabbis, let’s sue them!”) Obama lost that one 9-0, and evan Kagan called the arguments “extreme.”
If they do not accept federal funding and are running an exclusively religiously based enterprise, provide services to and hire only people of their sect or cult or religion they are exempt.
The existence of federal funding is found nowhere in the exemption clause. Please note this and cease spreading misinformation. You have been informed repeatedly yet you persist.
As I said before, it’s an ethical issue not a legal issue. If you accept Federal funds, hire people who do not follow your religious persuasion and serve the general public your have a moral obligation to follow the insurance mandates. If you don’t like them, then follow the laws covering “certain religious employers” that you list above.
That’s right, and the very first tenet listed is that it have, as its purpose, “the inculcation of its religious values as its purpose.” Somehow, I don’t think St. Joseph’s Hospital in Bangor has that as its purpose. I always thought people went there to get health care.
Your argument is that has as much value as if the Catholic Church was to argue that since it is a religious organization, it doesn’t have to abide by OSHA requirements for its employees. Not.
Here is the definitively authoritative citation on this issue. Please read it, and cease and desist on the “federal funding” red-herring.
http://www.hrsa.gov/womensguidelines/
“Group health plans
sponsored by certain religious employers, and group health insurance
coverage in connection with such plans, are exempt from the requirement
to cover contraceptive services. A religious employer is one that: (1)
has the inculcation of religious values as its purpose; (2) primarily
employs persons who share its religious tenets; (3) primarily serves
persons who share its religious tenets; and (4) is a non-profit
organization under Internal Revenue Code section 6033(a)(1) and section
6033(a)(3)(A)(i) or (iii). 45 C.F.R. §147.130(a)(1)(iv)(B).”
Ok, so I read it, what’s your problem with this? Again, it’s not forcing anybody to USE the contraception, just mandating that an employer (and, as you correctly note, one that employs a significant portion of medical facility employees) cover a basic service. If the Catholic Church doesn’t want to abide by this, it can certainly stop operating hospitals and go back to being simply a church.
It’s not about stopping people from using birth control. They are free to use it and pay for it themselves.
This is about making the Catholic church’s charitable organizations pay for a health insurance plan that covers the cost of contraception for its employees. The Catholic organization offers a health insurance plan to its employees, but the plan does not cover abortion or contraception because the church is opposed to those practices and thus does not find it moral to pay for them. It’s just a clear cut case of a federal law infringing on the freedom to practice one’s religious beliefs.
St. Joseph’s hospital is DEFINITELY not a “charitable organization.” So what’s your point?
This has nothing to do with receiving federal funding. The government cannot go against 1st Amendment rights just as poster FavaBeans has shown in his reply to you. I can guarantee you the Obama Administration’s attempt to force it way will be declared Unconstitutional by the high federal court. Mark my words here if you will. It’s religious exemption is far to narrow to pass muster.
The Church as an employer is required to provide health insurance in most of the organizations it runs. The choice of insurance policy for its employees should be up to the Church, not the employees and certainly not the government. If not satisfied the employee should be free to look elsewhere for insurance of their choice or for another employer. That’s the way it was in the past and that’s the way it should be in the future. Last time I checked, this is still a FREE country under the Constitution. I don’t see what is so hard about this to understand. I think many posters here have an axe to grind against the Church.
Their access is not restricted. They are gainfully employed and can purchase birth control all they want with their own rightfully earned salary. We are not talking about people who are poor and cannot afford their birth control. These are people who have jobs. If their budget is tight, they could get reduced-priced birth control through a Planned Parenthood agency. Nobody is saying they can’t use birth control.
Sorry, but the Church is not in the business of health insurance. It’s in the health care business though.
The Catholic Church’s inability to keep their parishioners from using birth control is not justification for making the government responsible for enforcing church dogma.
It’s interesting that those supporting the Church’s demand that the government limit access to birth control are the same people violently opposed to government intrusion.
“Violently opposed” lol. Yeah, they’re so violent. And yes, I’m using my sarcastic tone of voice.
You don’t read the reactionary comments about government “intrusion”, do you?
I don’t like government intrusion myself, but I wouldn’t say anything violent about it for sure. It’s pointless. But it just goes to show that the founders of this nation included the 2nd amendment in the constitution for the very reason of individual protection against outside forces, including ones own government. It’s actually quite natural to want to defend what is rightfully yours, and I really wouldn’t call it “violent”… At least not any more violent than your stance on abortion, msallyjones.
THis isn’t about the government being responsible to enforce church dogma. It is about the government intruding its mandates into church dogma. You say you are an atheist. How far are you willing to let Christianity be foisted upon you by the government? What if the government levied a tax that you had to pay that went to buying crucifixes to improve the meditative morale of federal employees? No way, right?
My example is certainly far-fetched, but the principle behind that example and what is currently going on with contraception mandates is the same. It’s just that you are in favor of access to contraception, and you don’t like the Catholic church much, so you are willing to overlook the principle involved here.
About 550 people have filed sex abuse claims in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee’s bankruptcy case.and they worry about contraception?
Yeah, they really ought to take a deep look into their beliefs, priorities and actions. A reality check is desperately needed.
Saran Wrap
Saran Wrap
Try being responsible for your actions. There is only one way to make a baby, last time I checked anyway. Ever hear of a condom? Or maybe refraining if you can’t support the baby that could come from it.
Last time I checked condom’s cost around $7 for a packet of 3. A young married couple who does not wish to have children until later, with an active sex life say once a day on average, would spend close to $80 a month. Money they could be putting aside for a down payment on a nice starter home to raise a family or they could, as you suggest, not have sex.
Or maybe they already have all the children they can resonable afford to raise but can’t afford $80 a month on a luxury. They should never have sex again just so they won’t have another child they cannot afford?
edit for spelling
I was young once too, and my wife and I took responsibility. My children also take responsibility. I have 4 children between the ages of 23 and 16, one being a step-child, and none of them are pregnant, or caused a pregnancy. But hey, our taxes are already out of control ,and DHHS is ready to close if we don’t get it under control, so what the hell let’s just add free contraceptives to the bill, right? Let’s just make it easier for young folks to never have to work, and live off the state.
If we were to provide free or low cost contraception that would reduce the number of people that we may need to help whereas not providing contraception may increase the number of people we may need to help.
Low cost, I can agree with, but I am sick of folks getting something for nothing. There is no reason low income folks can’t provide some financial input when they get something like this.
Providing insurance for birth control causes young people to quit working?????? I don’t suppose you’d like to enlarge on this strange conclusion?
I didn’t say quit working, I said never have to work. Have you never seen two young kids who aren’t married, but have children? And they are not married because the mother can get MORE aid from the state even though the father is, under the table, helping to support his children. Here is an example; ASPIRE is a lesser known program in the state that helps low income folks repair their vehicles. Now some folks need it, and it is a good program to get folks to work, or kids to school, etc. But I once had a customer who brought her “boyfriends” plow truck in for repair and got the state to pay for it. What do you think he was going to do with that truck? He was going to plow driveways and make money, all on our tax dollar. That’s what I mean by, “make it easier..”
Pay for your own birth control. The rest of us should not have to do so.
If you’re a smoker and get cancer, pay for your treatment yourself. Us non-smokers should not have to do so.
Pay for your own knee replacement. Those of us with great knees should not have to pay for yours.
If you’re a drinker and get liver disease, pay for your own liver transplant. Us teetotallers should not have to do so. (Back in your court, sally! This is kind of fun!)
We could continue to pay for unwanted and poor children at a much larger cost to you and I.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2011/10/13/house-passes-hr-358-the-let-women-die-act-of-2011
Just a reminder that right now, NO hospital can refuse an abortion to a woman in active labor who will die without the procedure.
Get we get sterilization covered off with Obamacare?
This is a religious freedom issue–this guy is a liar. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-radical-power-grab-on-health-care/2012/01/30/gIQANB7XdQ_story.html
This is not a freedom of religion. This is a freedom from your religions issue
” The implications of Obama’s power grab go further than contraception and
will provoke opposition beyond Catholicism. Christian colleges and
universities of various denominations will resist providing insurance
coverage for abortifacients. And the astounding ambition of this federal
precedent will soon be apparent to every religious institution. Obama
is claiming the executive authority to determine which missions of
believers are religious and which are not — and then to aggressively
regulate institutions the government declares to be secular. It is a
view of religious liberty so narrow and privatized that it barely covers
the space between a believer’s ears.”
The Jewish proscription against eating pork is like sooooo out of date and like totally anti-scientific and stuff. And who honestly believes that mixing meat and cheese is sinful? Get with like the 20th century haha. We should totally make Kosher delis sell pork and force them to make roast beef and cheese sandwiches to anyone, because plenty of non-Jews shop at them!
Oh and we should make Halal Markets sell beer. It’s like soooo inconvenient to have to go to different places to buy harissa sauce and beer!
Make this a law, otherwise force them to only admit Jews and Muslims, respectively, into their stores!
By the way, were you aware that the Amish and Muslims are entirely exempt from all provisions of Obamacare, for conscience reasons? Catholics are literally being singled out here.
My point: It doesn’t matter if you agree with or even understand the basis of a religious teaching. If it is sacred to a given faith, and would constitute a grave violation of conscience, the constitution prohibits the passing of any law that would force its adherents to materially participate in it. Period.
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Here’s what frosts the cake: the Catholic Church claims the high moral ground for excluding birth control from insurance and at the same time is actively trying to close down planned Parenthood, the only organization that could provide readily available low cost contraceptives to women.
Might make people think contraception isn’t the real issue.