AUGUSTA, Maine — State officials here have kicked around possible reforms to the welfare benefits system aimed at preventing fraud and abuse.
Assistant Attorney General Leanne Robbin said she and others responsible for investigating and prosecuting welfare cheats have discussed the notion of putting photos on EBT, or electronic benefits, cards, but realized that wouldn’t work because recipients such as shut-ins can hand off their cards to surrogates to shop for them, legally using their PINs.
But enforcers say one of the most frustrating aspects of the welfare benefits system involves uses that, they say, should be illegal but aren’t.
A welfare recipient who receives benefits from Temporary Assistance to Needy Families or Additional Support for People in Retraining and Education can walk into a supermarket and legally use their EBT card to buy a case of beer or a pack of cigarettes.
Robbin said she was “shocked” when she learned about the allowance.
Lewiston Police Chief Michael Bussiere said he was disappointed to learn it was legal.
A spokesman for DHHS said there are no restrictions on the use of the benefits. In fact, TANF and ASPIRE money, under federal law, can be used for anything. DHHS is not allowed to require TANF or ASPIRE recipients to submit receipts showing that the federally mandated benefits were spent on intended items or services.
John Martins, director of communications at DHHS, said state authorities are researching options to help clamp down on purchases of alcohol, tobacco and other items with TANF or ASPIRE money on their EBT cards.
“We’ve been meeting with a DHHS fraud group every week and looking at both of those things, statutes that we need to change and improve, the systems we need to change, and also look at … where are the loopholes to game the system and how do we close those within the authority the state has under these federally mandated programs,” Robbin said.
Androscoggin County Sheriff Guy Desjardins remembered when a prisoner at his Auburn jail was being booked several years ago. The man was allowed to use the jail’s ATM to withdraw cash. When his jailers realized he intended to use his EBT card to pay his bail, they balked — even though it is legal — and the man stayed in jail.
“That element is always going to find a way to get around the system,” Desjardins said.
Soon after, jail officials contacted the ATM’s vendor to reprogram the machine so that it wouldn’t allow EBT card transactions, Desjardins said.
In Washington, D.C., a bill that overwhelmingly passed the U.S. House and is now before the Senate Finance Committee would require states that get federal welfare money to maintain policies and practices necessary to prevent the use of state TANF money in any transaction at a liquor store, casino or gambling establishment or strip club, a spokesman for U.S. Sen. Susan Collins said. That bill, called the Welfare Integrity Now for Children and Families Act, establishes penalties for states that don’t report on their implementation of or enforcement of those polices and practices.
John Graham Jr., a spokesman for Maine U.S. Rep. Mike Michaud, said the legislation, which Michaud supported, is a “step in the right direction.”
To see more from the Sun Journal, visit sunjournal.com.
Hope they take care of this program.When obama and the destroyacrats finish stealing everyones paycheck .We are going to need it for everyone.Don’t try to help people up, just spend everyone into poverty.
What a predictable reply. For heavens sake, get a new riff will ya!
Okay, YOU buy them their beer and give them $ for strip clubs then. Leave the rest of us out of it
pot callin the kettle black eh.
Yup. I say some nasty things, all true mind you, about republicans. I wondered if someone was going to call me on that ha ha.
at least your honest
“I say some nasty things, all true mind you, about republicans”
True because it is your opinion???
destroyacrats? lol. Is that really the best you can do? lol. I hope that you did not give yourself an aneurysm laying that egg. Here is a fact that you will find interesting. Both parties created this mess and neither one will be able to fix it without cooperation from the other side of the aisle.
Maybe, just maybe, if we as Mainers could put a halt to negative labels and/or racist comments concerning the President and, instead, all, together, aimed to create real solutions to our real problems here in Maine, we could unite and make some progress. For each pound of mud thrown by a right wing facist-racist, another is hurled back from someone on the left. We have real problems here. Let’s break some bread together and make our state an island of civilized behavior in a world of extreme vitriol.
You are race mongering. Stop it.
See, that is a problem, now-a-days if you say you don’t like what Obama said or did, you are a racist!, What if you just don’t like what he did or does, why am I a racist just because I don’t like him? At some point this “political correctness” B.S has got to stop!
I have NEVER EVER heard anyone say anything racist when saying that they did not like this socialist policy or that idiotic idea…. you are making it up to suit an agenda
Nice thought. But I suspect the government is fairly happy getting votes from these people to continue with developing poverty in this country.
I”m shocked the A.G. is shocked.
What would you suggest as a fix, because it seems every time a cut is suggested, tax payers loose more of their money towards more free programs that they are not qualified for.
well since i can not reply without the BDN obama filter.We could get a lot more done if the media and progressives got off the race cover and really look at what this man is doing to our country.Some do not believe america wants to be a mediocre country.
Did your friends the space aliens help BDN with the ”
obama filter”?
So you say “For each pound of mud thrown by a right wing fascist-racist, another is hurled back from someone on the left.” is going to calm things down, right? Comments like that will make sure that no “right wing fascist-racist” will want to set down and work out a compromise with an elitist liberal crackpot like you. You are right, we have real problems here. The failed social agenda is failing all of us.
Both parties like our paychecks.
How much have they “stolen from” you paycheck? Is it more than the income tax and FICA? You sound a little bit ridiculous when you say Obama takes from your paycheck, the President of the United States does not enact any laws, only Congress can do that.
So that kinda kills the bush did it excuse from the lefty rhetoric.Taking from producers to give to non producers is taking from paychecks(Class warfare)rhetoric.
Destroyacrats!
Love it.
Hmmm. Our paychecks have gotten bigger since Obama took office, not smaller. We are keeping more of it as take home pay. Timjy, why are you so interested in bashing Obama so as to damage your own credibility? Don’t you think we know the truth of what we earn in our paychecks? Your argument would be compelling if it were not a fabrication. The real President Obama has fought hard to increase our take home pay. Even if only a few dollars a week, it is more than most of us had before.
They can also buy anything ILLEGAL because they can take the card to an ATM and get CASH out. Regulate, regulate, regulate!
Do you also apply your ‘ regular’ demands to the companies, like the charcoal factory in Millinocket, who are addicted to corporate welfare and handouts?
I said ‘regulate,’ not ‘regular.’
This isn’t about corporate welfare. If you want to discuss corporate welfare, find another article.
At least the corporations are providing jobs. I know that those that promote a social agenda that is based on welfare dependency don’t want to see job creation.
Spoken like a person whose income depends on others getting government handouts.
Hey, don’t ask the liberals to heavily regulate welfare, they are more interested in regulating the remaining industry out of the USA to bother.
I actually know many liberal minded people who believe that welfare needs to be regulated.
Then let’s push to get it done!
That will preserve the funds that are left for the ones that REALLY Need it and get the scammers back to work.
Republicans need to be Regulated!
Welfare—
The Republican Scapegoat!
YES! Let’s make the Nanny State complete by controlling every dollar a poor person spends.
BTW, I am still not sure what the rest of us get out of this…..
If you are: ” still not sure what the rest of us get out of this” than you haven’t been paying attention. Try educating yourself.
If it is a dollar that is given and not earned than why not. If a person does not want to be told how to spend the money in their pocket, than they need to make sure that they earn what they are spending.
We give tax breaks to companies and then let them decide how to use the proceeds. The same goes for subsidies. If you are disabled and fully reliant on public assistance, should government tell you you cannot buy a piece of candy? or a beer? or a box of shells for deer season?
You’d think differently if you had a job, paid taxes.
Stop Jack_Knoph and pay YOUR Taxes!
Wow. That’s funny stuff. No, really… (yawn)
I have a job. I pay taxes. In fact, I pay the full bill and get no deductions beyond the standard one. I get no subsidy whatsoever from government. Still, I understand that we have plenty of needy and not enough real opportunity to provide for their needs. If we had 2% unemployment and the jobs were abundant, that would be one thing. We don’t. There are going to be winners and losers in capitalism. What are we supposed to do about those who do not succeed? This is a moral question.
It is telling how you immediately apply your stereotypes and filters to cast me as unproductive and profligate. I have worked as hard as I can my whole adult life, yet you assume anyone who actually cares about the poor must be a lazy loser, huh?
Like so many others, you need to resort to gross stereotyping to provide cover for your lack of concern for your neighbors. Some people have to be poor. Can you tell me any country or time in history where everybody was rich? the moral question remains, what do we provide the poor so they can live a reasonable life and perhaps have the preparation should opportunity avail itself.
This is not about the people that cannot work; it is about those that will not work. It is not about the guy that has A BEER, it is about the people that spend all day drinking beer, smoking and doing anything but trying to help themselves. The system itself provides no incentive for the people that abuse the system to stop. The whole welfare system is just like a pyramid scheme.
And please tell me how YOU know the difference? A pyramid scheme, huh? Really!? Wall Street engineering a bubble that cost most thrifty americans their life savings in their homes is a pyramid scheme. You are distracted by the protectors and apologists for these criminals. Instead you pick on the ones who are too beaten down to even defend themselves in forums like this. When was the last time you saw a poster say: I am one of the poor who rely on these programs in these comment pages?
If that doesn’t tell you something……
Put forth safeguards to prevent this. Are we so blind ?
Free money, thanks Obama
put restrictions on the ebt cards , like not allowed to buy cigarettes or alcohol, this may not prevent them completely but it will at least make it a lot tougher for the receiver of the benefits to shop for there non essentials during non banking hours…. then maybe they may have enough money left to buy decent food and diapers for the kids at the end of the month..
I would like to report a possible Tax Fraud Protection Racket, called the Norquist Tax Pledge!
What agency do I call?
Try to stay on subject, I know it’s hard but you can do it
Doubtful…
You can’t recognize a troll?
Fraud is Fraud!
The article is about Taxpayer,s being defrauded.
Please prepare for a sworn deposition, send copies of your evidence along with a
sworn and notarized statement to:
Office of the Attorney General
6 State House Station
Augusta, ME 04333
For Additional Fraud, Attempted or Suspected,
Contact the Office of the Attorney General
Phone: 207-626-8800
http://www.maine.gov/ag/contac…
Thank you for your involvement in our legal process.
seems going from the paper check to the plastic card was all about saving on postage and trees and not about increasing security or preventing fraud.
Kind of like changing the name of the food stamp program to SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) was just about changing the name and not regulation because they sure didn’t change what could be purchased. You’re not fooling anyone by throwing the word “nutrition” in there. Do you think we’re stupid?
Also, I witnessed a sex offender using his SNAP card to purchase a full display (not kidding) of Reese’s Fast Break bars. It makes me sick that money is being taken from me (a parent of a disabled child, no less) to buy candy for a sex offender.
More fixation on the poor. When is the LePage administration going to go to work on creating jobs-jobs-jobs in Maine instead of driving more jobs out of the state? Fixating on whether someone’s buying booze and cigs ain’t gonna help anyone get off welfare if there’s no jobs for them to turn to.
hitting close to home
Rather a nasty and off topic comment don’t you think? Showing your charitable nature here on this sunny Sunday? I think you’ve mistaken a concerned citizen for someone who may have been displaced from their job by the incompetence of eight years of the Bush administration’s wasteful spending, unnecessary wars, and tax breaks for the folks who sent so many of our jobs overseas. Don’t worry about me, I’m protected by a solid educational background. I am however saddened for your angry and hateful plight in life (As well as the afterlife) in much the same way I’m saddened for those who can no longer find employment in America.
Bush did it is getting old.I guess when you can blame others for your bad decisions life is better.Try a little personal responsibility in decision making makes life better.Thank god i did not sit back and wait for the past admins to make or break me.This one in the whitehouse now just might have come up with the correct prescription though.He wants all americans to be poor and he just might get it.
As usual making huge leaps to hammer out the same old agenda.We need to take care of those that cannot take care of themselves not teach able folks how to not work.
The economy is getting better there shouldn’t be anyone on welfare.
Regardless of which is true, I’ve read both net loss and net gain of 100 or so jobs in the last year, the economy in Maine is not improving yet as much as you’d like to believe it is. And many of those jobs are retail which are more often than not poverty wages that require assistance in order to put food on the table and pay the rent. Can you imagine living on $10/hour, especially in the winter? As long as those are the jobs that are available there will be people who need assistance.
you don’t need to raise as much in tax revenue if the leeches are not just taking and taking and taking without ever giving back.
The fact that taxpayer funds are being used to fuel a dozen fires is something that needs attention. Many (if not most) of these people have no intentions of getting off welfare. Why would they want to with a system like ours?
But “Fixating on whether someone’s buying booze and cigs” is the ONLY thing this article is about! Way to go though on trying to aim this problem at the Gov.
You just don’t get it, do you?
Why are we giving people money? The money is for specific things, child and family related. If a SNAP card knows what is elligable why not the same for TANF funds. Give them gift cards, give them anything, but don’t give them cash, it’s that simple. Just as with the SNAP card, it’s now only worth 50 cents on the dollar for any illegal activities. (Which are quite common)
Like I stated before, I work in retail and we always encounter EBT cards that have been traded for drugs or other things. What happens is that the card will be traded with the pin number and the person uses it only to discover that it has been shut off (reported missing or stolen).
1984?
There is another group that is receiving taxpayer money and my belief is that is that they also should not be allowed to spend this taxpayer money on booze, drugs, cigarettes, sex, or gambling. They will try to argue they “earn” this money so they should be able to do what they want. I say it is taxpayer money and so I can restrict how it is spent. What is this group? Politicians !
Can we please save the corporate welfare discussion for another time? This isn’t about that. Everyone is taking the focus off where it needs to be right now.
The Gov’t brought this on themselves, they did not go out of the way to prevent this from happening. Nobody is making any extra efforts to withdraw money for bail money, buy beer, tobacco, etc. The system is allowing it so to call it fraud is a little far fetched specifically when the Feds allow this. Now if the laws are actually changed and you send out the nanny patrol to regulate, then balk that this is illegal.
You are right the govt is at fault ,they should never have allowed all the free gimme gimme govt giveaways and by they I mean us cause we are the ones who elect em.I do feel bad for all of you who have never had to take care of yourself but the time is drawing nigh for you to learn.
Gonna be fun to watch.
Armed of course!
Amen Brother!
What the heck does “armed” mean?
Firm two handed grip with feet apart.
very wise
Don’t forget the tattoos. A high percentage of the TANF recipients spend these taxpayer dollars on getting new ink every month.
You are really reaching now!!!! Give me a break!!!
Open your eyes.
Look around.
Travel in different circles.
You’ll see the fraud.
Exactly. Work in retail for a while and if you’re not pulling your hair out in a week, you have the heart of a saint.
I probably travel in very different circles than you. On the planet where I live, people care about others, they have enough to deal within their own lives without spending time and energy worrying what their neighbor does, they don’t make wide sweeping assumptions without knowing the facts, and they don’t consider everyone receiving any kind of benefit as committing fraud. I worked with “welfare recipients” for 31 years and most areworking menand women who don’t make a living wage usually through no fault of their own and just need a little help. I hope you never find yorself in that kind of situation.
All of you hateful judgemental people should spend a week withaneligiblity worker. Just maybe you’d walk away with a heart.
You obviously are part of the problem.
I’ll bet you believed every sob story ever told to you.
You are being played by the “Big Time” Gypsys!
The ones who moved into Augusta and are playing the Diversion,
look at them while we pick “Your ” Pocket!
I believe the ones you are talking about and the ones (abusing the programs meant to help deserving people) we and the Article are talking about are TWO different groups. But I guess on the planet where you live you can’t differentiate between them
Do you really think the poor stays poor and the rich stay rich! How many times have jobs and Opportunities fail in life.The idea is to dust yourself off and try again. May seem harsh not everyone will succeed.Those that try should be helped. Government should not be picking winners and losers.
“… I worked with “welfare recipients” for 31 years. ”
Perhaps THAT was part of the problem.
YOU are definitely on a different planet where I live. In my world, blind altruism is evil. I donate a lot of time and money to local charities and I have helped many people; people whose homes have burned down, people who have sick children, families who need a little help at Christmas time, animal shelters… but the beauty of it is that I CHOOSE who I help.
I’ve used this analogy before and I’ll do it again: You see two jars on a store counter – one says that it’s for someone to buy their liquor for the month and the other says that it’s to help with medical payments for a child with leukemia, which jar are you going to put the money in?
Categorizing again. I’m giving up. I can’t change what I can’t change, and as my boss said to me this morning, I am only making myself crazy trying. You live with your hate and self-righteousness. I’ll continue to be caring and non-judgmental. Have a nice life.
Did you even read my full comment or did you stop at the first sentence? For someone that claims to be “non-judgmental,” you sure have been pretty quick to judge me. Not to mention that you have completely ignored everything that I just explained to you.
I’m the one wasting my time.
“On the planet where I live, people care about others, they have enough to deal within their own lives without spending time and energy worrying what their neighbor does, they don’t make wide sweeping assumptions without knowing the facts, and they don’t consider everyone receiving any kind of benefit as committing fraud.”
You just don’t get it! I would not spend any time worrying about what my neighbor does if I was not working 11 hours a day supporting my family and my neighbor too! That is the problem here. It IS our business to care about fraud and abuse. It IS an outrage that we are putting tax dollars toward buying the stuff listed in this article. It IS an insult to working people everywhere that this is going on with no end in sight. Put a stop to this and do it NOW! It is maddening to be in the checkout line at the store and witness this day after day. People posting here condoning and explaining away this stuff is sick. Cut these programs far, wide and deep. STOP the madness.
Do you not live on this planet then?
(If you are actually blind, then I sincerely apologize).
It’s Working folks, Honest people turning in the Fraudsters helps reduce costs
and Save the funds for those that Truly need it.
Report Fraud in Maine
Allegations of fraud or attempted fraud involving funds, including Food Stamps,
administered by the Department of Health and Human Services should be sent to:
Fraud, Investigation and Recovery
11 State House Station
Whitten Road
Augusta, Maine 04333-0011
Phone numbers for DHHS Fraud office are:
1-207-287-2409 and 1-800-442-6003
Further questions and suspicions can also be submitted by e-mail.
Fraud.Dhhs@maine.gov
For Additional Fraud, Attempted or Suspected,
Contact the Office of the Attorney General
Phone: 207-626-8800
Mailing Address:
Office of the Attorney General
6 State House Station
Augusta, ME 04333
http://www.maine.gov/ag/contact.html
Do All three, Phone, E-mail and send a Letter.
Follow-up in 30 days with a Certified letter if no response.
Send a letter Directly to the Governor’s Office, that should get their attention.
Keep a written log of actions and attempts to notify.
Hold them Responsible!
Tired of your broken record.
Well, Pondlady…..why don’t you lighten the taxpayers burden and take in some unfortunates (and eliminate their benefits ) and feed them in your kitchen. Please post your address so those looking for a handout will be able to program their GPS to your front door.
I agree, I will definately forward your address Pondlady.
I would like to report a Vigilante, Welfare Recipieant Stalker,
Who do I Call?
I see the “new tattoos” scenerio all the time. It’s not a stretch by any means.
Another ridiculous assumption based on someone you know. I worked wth welfare recipients for 31 years and they all didn’t have tatoos. Remember that the vast majorityof LePage’s so called welfare recipients are elderly,disabled and working people just like you,I assume,and me, not drug crazed lazy bums.
….
They can’t help but see them while hanging out in crack houses while on Bath Salts !
They are all over the place I tell ya!
….
Retail. Think before you comment.
….
Not just based on someone I know… I’m in contact with hundreds of people on a daily basis. No one here said that they ALL have tattoos. This was just one of the many examples of the dishonesty of some of the recipients.
I have no problem with helping the elderly or disabled. However, this state treats drug addicts better than our elderly and disabled. If you disagree with this, perhaps you can explain why taxpayer money is being used to provide expensive cab fare for methadone clients. Do they provide taxi rides for people that are on dialysis?
Explain to me how having a tatoo makes someone dishonest? My son has 2 tatoos and he’s a very honest small business owner. You are still judging and categorizing people.
Having a tattoo doesn’t make you a dishonest person in and of itself. I would never judge a person that way.
However, when the state is taking care of you and your children by giving you TANF and food stamps so you don’t starve, you have no right to go and spend hundreds of dollars on a new tattoo. Someone who is truly in need of food and the basic necessities of life isn’t going to spend their money on a tattoo.
…you’re still not using your brain.
And you know they spent hundreds of dollars of their “welfare” money on a tattoo how? Isn’t it possible they got it before they were receiving benefits. Again you are making judgements without using YOUR brain. You can not possibly know the minute details of someone else’s life. It’s just like those of you who make judgements on what they wear, i.e. designer clothes. I don’t know about you , but I’ve gotten some very nice designer clothes at Goodwill for a very cheap price. You need to stop being ‘BIG Brother” and mind your own business.
The vast majority of welfare recipients are able bodied young people who have no intention of working. Most of Maine’s elderly would not take a dime of the state’s money even though they are in desperate need. You need to do some research on the welfare statistics in this state.
You are so wrong it’s laughable. You need to look up some statistics. Most “welfare recipients” are working, but not earning enough to support their family.
Yes they get tattoos too. They smoke, they buy porn, they read novels, they eat dessert, sometimes even seconds. Some of these people even use the soft toilet paper! The nerve of them.
They get a small amount to live on and then THEY make the choices. That is part of freedom, neighbor. When the angry mob gets to dictate every detail, that is not called freedom, it is called fascism.
If you want to just take all of that away, the assistance, the health care, the food, just say that. Somalia uses that approach. There is anarchy and rampant lawlessness, but we can work towards that if enough of you get your way.
When money is taken from people who work hard to give to people who don’t, THAT is called fascism.
No, that is not called fascism. Your definition is completely ill informed. Fascism is an authoritarian ideology marked by use of force and fear of force in the name of nationalistic goals.
Like many, the words you try to use against civil responsibility are misapplied. Working people are getting shafted and extracted, but not by the poor. Do you realize that a considerable part of the $7 trillion that our economy lost through banking malfeasance actually ended up in peoples pockets. They are the real enemy to working people, not the jobless or disabled or mentally ill, or uneducated.
They also have the choice (IE Freedom) to not take the benefits and get a job. But…oh silly me…Jobs are only reserved for republicans and rich people, right? The problem…which you are hell bent on ignoring is the fact that taxpayers are tired of people abusing the system. I would bet at least 90% of us who pay taxes have no problem helping others who truly need help, like the elderly, children and disabled. It’s the fact that more and more people (able bodied people) are taking advantage of the generosity of others. But I suppose that is okay in your world, the world where the workers are supposed to carry the I-don’t-wanna-workers. And people wonder why businesses and industry avoid Maine…why college students, upon graduation seek employment elsewhere. They probably don’t want to waste their sweat busting their hump so the entitlement-minded, dope smoking, lazy hordes infest the state.
BTW…I have been to Somalia and trust me..we are far from being like Somalia. Hyperbole much?
PS…take a gander at the police mug shots….lot of lovers of the skin art committing crimes…but that is just coincidence I am sure.
Yeah, silly you. I guess you haven’t notices that there are more unemployed than there are jobs.
As for Somalia, they are the go to example of non-government. This is what anarchy looks like. I never said we were like them but to consider no governance an ideal requires a comparative check in with reality.
Get over it!
Your nose will get flat if you keep pressing it up against the window!
I get the feeling that you’re on welfare, Dlbrt. If you are, please know that I have no problem with people being on welfare because they need temporary help, such as in the case of a layoff. It can be devastating to an individual and their family to get laid off. I do, however, have a problem with people using the funds for things that they aren’t intended for and I also have a problem with people lying to get it. I also have a problem with those who choose it as a way of life. If you’re not one of those people, I’m not talking about you.
Another bash the poor article. TANF clients are issued money on the EBT card rather than by check because it is cheaper and easier to track. They actually receive the lowest benefits in the Northeast. For most recipients it does not cover the rent expense. If we are going to restrict the poor let’s also restrict those receiving unemployment, tax refunds, payments to day care providers and everyone else who receives a state payment.
Yeah but now you can use them to go to the bar or strip clubs.
Just saying.
Oh, and I think most tax refunds started out in the WORKERS’ pockets as wages, before they went to the govt.
It doesn’t matter if it’s cover the rent expense because they are spending it on alcohol and cigarettes. They’re not concerned about the rent.
I wish people would stop referring to these people as “the poor.” “Oh, you’re discriminating against the poor” and “stop picking on the poor”… Excuse me but I’m poor and I work. And I go to school. And I have a disabled child whom I don’t collect disability for. Allowing these people to do this is really hurting ME and people like me. It’s a slap in my face!
Don’t buy in to everything that this governor and the media tells you as most of it is false. as soon they are done with the welfare recipients they will go after people like you and your daughter.
Get rid of the EBT cards….work in conjunction with supermarkets…have “monthly packages” made up of acceptable grocery items (perhaps combine efforts with the local food banks). Welfare recipients can then either come get their monthly “package” ala Food banks or a confirmed representative of the recipient can come get it. This way a balance of dietary needs can be met. Might help with various health problems, the least is the obesity problems America seems to have from all the fast food, high fat content of chips, soda, and various sugar filled, non- nutritious items. This would also possibly create a few jobs or for those so inclined you can volunteer to help the needy. This is only a suggestion because something needs to be done. I’m all ears to hear real alternatives; not just “that won’t work” or “it violates this or that”. If people can get to the store to get groceries with an EBT card, then they can get there to get their “monthly package.”
I thnk they did away with commodity foods in 1974. Miss the cheese!!!
Perhaps they should bring it back. Also…was delighted to read your suggestion.
Pasta, cheese, powdered milk, cereal, peanut butter… I remember that as well. It was all we needed and we made good use of it. It wasn’t until my mother started received food stamps that we started starving. Figure that one out.
dont forget that huge can of cooked pork….yum!
You got canned pork? No fair! Perhaps my mom hoarded that for herself. lol
i agree whole hearted.y… but the program was done away with because it made people feel inferior and embarassed to be seen in those lines.
so… what is wrong with using it as an incentive?
people SHOULD feel ashamed to be taking handouts, and they should use that shame to get up and DO SOMETHING.
and I agree that it would create s a few jobs to hand out the food (not junk)
the real problem that I for see is that corporations like Coke and Hostess are goign to pay lobbyists to pay the Olympia to pass a law that COke or some coke product MUST be in each monthly basket… this is how our counrty now works.. this is why corn syrup is subsidized and why we are all obese… corn is king in some circles… and it is all due to lobbying
I was a welfare kid and I know what that kind of humiliation feels like. I used to skip lunch at school because I didn’t want anyone to know that I got it for free. Sad. However, there are people who aren’t embarrassed at all when they put a half gallon of Allen’s on the counter, pay for the milk with their food stamps and use the cash side on the EBT card to pay for the booze. They really should be ashamed of themselves, but they’re not.
Why not, Let it become a local issue. A fund allotted to the town . The town’s issue vouchers for a local food store . Perhaps there could be a better control
time to bring back the school bus full of cheese and dried prunes.The bus would sit in the middle of town.I remember as kids after everyone got there bags of grocerys off the bus the driver would give us dried prunes and cheese that was left over.Liked the cheese.!
I see , so now do you just skip the cheese and go for the —Whine?
EBT should be like WIC coupons. They should only be able to buy healthy foods, no soda, no bottled water, no chips, candy, prepackaged foods with harmful chemicals and additives. They should only be able to buy meats, fish, fruits and vegetables, bread, dairy, nuts and seeds.
I like you more and more every time I read a comment of yours.
Love this!! someone send it to Govenor Lepage!
Nobody will be able to afford to go to the stores once the price of gasoline hits the $4.75 to $5.00 price by Memorial Day as predicted.
I work full time. I can afford $4.75 to $5.00 a gallon for gas
The idea to alter the cards so that they can only be used to purchase ‘prepared market baskets’ of food as thought about in earlier comments is a great one. If the foods were locally grown or raised, and limited to nutritious selections instead of pre-packaged, additive-stuffed items the ‘market basket’ idea would even be better as it would create better health along the way as well as new markets for Maine produced foods. Poverty is an evil thing and it can be embarrassing to be burdened with it, yet it is wrong to enable it as a way of life that people can begin to take for granted. Along with reorganizing cards so as to limit what can be purchased with them, recipients of state benefits should be required to attend locally organised, state-developed courses in good nutrition and health care so that just maybe the cycle of poor eating producing poor health and, thus, even more state benefits could be broken. Should recipients fail to attend such classes (providing they were accessible to those without transportation) then they would be dropped from the “food card” program since they would be failing to make a commitment to their own self-improvement.
THANK YOU!!! That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking…
AND, as a current smoker, former drinker and never-gambler, I *do* object to such purchases being eligible through public relief.
WOW fraud in the welfare system? Tell me it aint so. People buying things they should not be with taxpayer dollars? We who pay taxes have been complaing about these things fromt he start but nobody cares cause it is for the children. The only way to stop this is to END all welfare if you do not EARN it you do not get it simple. I woudl like to get my taxes lowered ALLOT why do I and those of us who work hard have to pay for those who do nothing.
yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy! You said exactly what I was thinking!
The problem is this is supposed to be a free country. If you are told what to do with money , it is no longer a free country. As for dietary needs it can be different for diffent people. I was once told that Americans are the most depressed welfare recipients compared to other countries, because of the limitations or funding. Not everyone loses money at a casino, and everyone needs some entertainment.
Although, as for funding, I would think middle class America would be depressed too, because many make less or take home less than what some recipients receive.
The ones that are Truly Able need to Get a Job, support themselves, then they can blow Their money on whatever they want.
The ones that Truly Need Help, don’t need to spend My Taxed money on “Luxuries” that I can’t even afford to to waste. They need to be financially Responsible, the money will go further for Necessities.
I find welfare envy a sad thing!
People really need to disassociate themslves with Money that they ONCE had!
It’s gone, get over it!
Life is To short!
Take care of yourselves and pay attention to your own finances stop being envious of what your neighbor is doing .
It will consume you like a disease,
Free Yourselves!
” Not everyone loses money at a casino, and everyone needs some entertainment.” That’s nonsense! Money spent on entertainment is discretionary spending…something we can all do without if we choose to because it’s not a necessity.
Freedom should never come at the expense of someone else. When it does, it’s not truly freedom, it’s rape.
Please. Many of our freedoms come at the expense of someone else….
I’m smart enough not to argue with that.
I wasn’t exactly looking at “the big picture” if you know what I mean.
“Not everyone loses money at a casino”
Sure, the casinos spend hundreds of millions of dollars on those buildings and staff so they can give money away. You MUST be a product of modern public education. Just keep playing, eventually you HAVE to win.
When you get free money, those giving that free money (the taxpayers) should have some say in how the free money should be spent. If you are working full-time or perhaps two jobs to support yourself without taking taxpayers’ money then no one should tell you how to spend it.
Maybe those on welfare wouldn’t be depressed if they got a job. I find my work to be fulfilling and very joyful. Nothing makes me happier than being able to support myself and my family. It is definately something worth trying.
It is not the Food Stamp money that is buying the cigs, bail money, booze etc.. . What happened was the State went from the paper food stamps to a single (monthly refill) plasitic card (the EBT) they place your “food stamp income” on the card every month. Then family’s that quailifies were then givien a monthly check supplement for Extra items (most likely for non food items such as much needed toilet paper etc..) and then the State stopped sending those checks and placed a 2nd section onto the EBT card. so when you check your card you get a Food income balance and a CASH balance.
It is the CASH Balance that adds up from month to month that is buying stuff that is was never intended to buy.
But the good ole BDN and politicians LOVE to skip the part of telling everyone exactly where the buying is coming from.
Did you read the article? It was clearly explained as to how the money on the card was being spent and where it was coming from. Does it make a difference which portion of their welfare benefits were used to purchase booze and cigarettes?
This State is one sick puppy of a state. The welfare people that buy booze,butts,etc., are the same people crying they have no money for heat. Welfare RULES Maine
I am sick of money coming out of MY POCKET to feed and house you welfare blanks.
On April 3rd i have an appointment with a relator to put my house on the market. My significant other and myself work full time. We are moving out of the this state., just like all the othe working people in Skowhegan have done already
Safe trip. Bye.
google Free State Project
I agree so much.
31.95% of all earned income in Somerset county came from government benefits. The national average is 17.6%. Just for comparison Cumberland county where Portland is takes in 16.38%
But don’t feel too bad Washington county is 38.39%
It’s Working April, Keep getting the word out.
We Can get this insanity under control.
Thank You!
think of the abuse that could be avoided and the jobs for people on welfare that could be created if we went back to the government cheese and peanut butter in big cans.
what woud be wrong with people ONLY getting a certain amount of FOOD for free every week? each town could staff a school cafeteria once a week, people woudl have to take their welfare chits to the cafeteria and trade them for FOOD. no lobster, no beer… just healthy food… (and yes, that also means no m&ms and no twinkies or candy.
candy is a luxury in my book. I eat spaghetti, tuna and ramen, and peanut butter sandwiches… it is good enough for THIS tax payer, why isn’t it good enough for the leeches?
I like the way you think.
If SNAP cards can be programmed not to allow purchases of alcohol and tobacco why no t EBT cards. I know they would then go to a ATM machine but why make it too convienent for these persons.
Okie Dokie you’re in charge!
Dang…..they have the death penalty in Texas and now this? Hmmm…if I didn’t love the beauty of Maine so much I’d be tempted to move there. (yeah, yeah, yeah…I know….. some fellow posters here would volunteer to pack my bags…lol)
Yes, they have the death penalty, relaxed gun laws and ten times the crime we do. Git on down there, its great!
“…ten times the crime we do.”
Head in the sand much? Wake up and take a look around !!! Crime in Maine is on the RISE. Maine isn’t the sleepy little state up in the eastern corner anymore. It is quickly becoming “The Way Life is in Detroit, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles”, etal.
People coming to the state to get on the teat…drug dealers infesting Portland, Bangor, Lewiston and points all around with drugs. Pharmacies and home invasion quickly becoming commonplace. Woman getting kidnapped and mugged simply coming out of a store. Geeeshh..I really wish I lived in your perfect little patch of the world. Personally…I get more worried every day.
Oh…and I make absolutely NO excuses for supporting both gun rights and the death penalty. Matter of fact, anyone who might dare to break into my home will be greeted by my opinion of both.
Crime may be on the rise in Maine but it is already many time worse elsewhere.
Your post exemplifies the broad brush you must use to justify your anti-social tendencies. People in need must be drug dealers or thieves in your world.
As for getting worried, you should. Any capitalistic society has rich and poor alike. Thats the game. Some get a lot, some end up with less. Everybody cannot be a millionaire. So the question is what to do wit the poor. We can let them starve, and there will be chaos. We can feed them and we will have people like you whining they eat for free. If we are not going to have everyone with the same lot in life, we need to consider the costs of abandoning the poor on civilization. This cuts to the core of who we are as a people. Watch Greece this week as the working class is asked to give up 25% of minimum wage to keep the bankers whole. They are rioting. Talk about crime. Success as a nation is dependent upon how you care for the poor as much as how you create opportunity for the rich. Society is a complex beast.
“So the question is what to do wit the poor. We can let them starve, and there will be chaos. We can feed them and we will have people like you whining they eat for free. ”
No where have I EVER advocated for the starving of the poor. Don’t put words into my mouth or attribute those thoughts to me. If you want to debate where you or I stand on an issue, don’t make things up to suit your cause.
I do, however stand by my sentiments about people abusing the system, getting benefits that they could be working for instead (Ie: the 21 year old able body types.). I am also sick and tired of hearing/reading about the crooks who get benefits, not because they need them , but want them so they can swap the benefits for drugs, cigarettes, and booze. And THAT DOES happen,quite a bit. We are just beginning to uncover exactly how much. I also am tired about hearing stories about people who CHOSE drugs as a way of life. We are all captains of our fate and masters of our souls. I have made a good life for my family and I and I won’t apologize for that. If that is being selfish, so be it. I also firmly believe in the adage about teaching someone to fish as opposed to giving them fish every day. I worked for 45 years, sacrificed when I wanted the bells and whistles. I prioritized where and when necessary and I have ALWAYS taken care of my needs without assistance. It wasn’t because I was lucky, but because that was my work ethic and a thing called fortitude. I know those things; work ethics, fortitude, effort and pride are not in vogue these days. The bottom line is, I, like most people who have planned , prioritized and sacrificed are more than willing to help less fortunate people, but not to the point where I am being taken advantage of by people who want me to take care of them because they don’t want to do it themselves. If that is “whining” in your book, so be it. I offer no apology for having my “act together” throughout my life.
Like most who espouse beliefs like yours, you are quick to say cut them off and never offer a vision for what happens after that. When there are fewer jobs than people, some have to be on the sidelines. With automation and technology, fewer are needed. That trend will continue indefinitely. That brings me back to my standing question, if there are not enough jobs to offer the people, what happens to them? Instead of playing the poor put upon conservative victim, offer a solution.
http://lnk.co/IIFDQ
If you want to know who all this government money is going to. Here is a interactive map showing how much and where.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/12/us/entitlement-map.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2
Who is going to pay for all that? This sort of thing cost allot of money and it does little to solve the problem of high unemployment and rising healthcare costs.
Compared to $300K+ per apartment for welfare housing? Most working people’s homes don’t cost that much. I think the barracks would pay for themselves in no time.
Where did it cost 300,000?
….
Your saying we should trust
Poliquin and the Virginia heritage societies numbers on this issue. The same Poliquin who lied on his job applications and lied on his tax deferment application.
The Heritage society is the same group of people who where passing around a doctored video that they knew was a fake made by a convicted criminal and sexual predator James O’Keefe.
….
Although $265K is still a ridiculous figure, you should thank the people that you are bashing for saving you almost $50K per unit, not building mind you, per unit in the building.
That is of course if you pay any taxes. If you are on the waiting list for one of these units, then never mind.
Why should I thank a bunch of Neo-nazi KKK left overs at the Heritage society for making up fake numbers and showing us faked videos to justify throwing the sick and elderly out of their homes in April.
Well I guess that takes any doubt away, as to whether you’re a tax payer. No doubt you will get your earned income credit too.
Sorry the only direct government help we get is a Pell grant for my kids collage. I pay over 32% of my income in taxes and fees each year. I’m not rich but I have to pay a lot of taxes to make up for the 38% of people up north who get a government check each month.
I do ok since I don’t spend all my money on coffee brandy and cigarettes.
Food stamps are for food. Housing subsidies pay rent. Anything else an impoverished person needs comes from TANF. I am confused by the furor of people having a choice in how they spend the cash they get from TANF. If conservatives are really against the big “nanny state” why do they want to dictate what a poor person can purchase with their benefits? Besides trying to dictate how they manage their reproductive system, now the fight has extended to everything they consume. Where does it end?
This is a war on the poor.
Why declare war on poor people who own and control almost nothing in our society? Because it is easy and it works to distract attention away from the real and substantial fraud that is happening at the top of the ladder. Wall Street is estimated to have cost American homeowners and citizens $7 trillion, just in the last crisis. That is more than 100 times what the government spends to care for the poorest among us. America ranks towards the bottom in the developed world for how much we spend on caring for the poor even though we rank in the middle for the incidence of poverty. Fraud does happen and it is more easily discovered and punished now with technology. The problems we are facing are not related to the few who get away with defrauding public benefits. We are feeling poor because we have been robbed. This story and those like it are part of a campaign to distract us from the bankers and traders who enriched themselves at our expense.
Do not be so easily fooled neighbors. This is intended to divide us as an electorate, give us cover for the morally dubious assault on the poor, and to distract us from focusing on the real cause of our lost standard of living.
The BDN and thousands of other news outlets are running stories like this regularly to appeal to the basest of human instincts, selfishness. It is wrong. It is immoral. It hurts us as a people. It keeps us from solving the real problems we face.
Pay attention to the real issues and stay focused! We will be measured by generations to come by our ability to care for our fellow citizens, not by the extra 1% in fraud we detect and prosecute.
We should be attempting to stop all types of fraud, both committed by the rich and poor.
Okay then, where are the effort in Maine to reign in financial fraud by bankers and wealthy tax cheats? The poor are targeted at the exclusion of the wealthy even though the numbers are much bigger in pursuing them. Sorry, I see no angry mob going after the big dollar cheats. Where are you guys? Waiting…..Its not about the money, or we would see both and more on the big dollar fraud.
The recent foreclosure settlement was for $25 billion, that is more than one third of the total cost of food stamps for the entire country. Get my point?
….
“The BDN and thousands of other news outlets are running stories like this regularly to appeal to the basest of human instincts, selfishness…”
So the people (taxpayers) who foot the bill for the freeloaders and lazy louts who make it a LIFESTYLE to be on welfare are being selfish? Really!!!? We’re selfish because we are tired of working our collective butts off only to have more and more of our pay taken by those who would rather sit around and get stoned, drunk and play videos all day are selfish? Really? We shouldn’t be irritated because we see the ever growing horde of healthy, twenty- something year olds getting benefits because they are filled with angst and “anxiety” because they didn’t have Michael Jordan sneakers growing up. We (the taxpayers) shouldn’t be selfish and we should continue to smile as we get the shaft because a bunch of idiots decided to get into a life or crime, drugs, and booze and now can’t manage their own lives. We are selfish because we (the taxpayers) get tired about reading of people claiming “children” they really don’t have…or swapping benefits for drugs, smokes, cell phones, and whatever else they desire but don’t want to work for. We (taxpayers) are selfish because we hear and read about people who claim to “live alone” with their children but then are caught with the boyfriend living there as well, using benefits meant for the children. But we (the taxpayers) are simply being a selfish lot. Really?
Well, speaking for myself, I joined the military at 17, did 25 years, incurred a disability in Somalia. Was discharged…went to school, earned a degree and then worked after that. Didn’t ask the government for a handout. (and by the way… I have taken drug tests on a regular basis since I was 17 in the military and in my current position voluntarily without whining about my “privacy rights”) But hell, I’m just a selfish taxpayer who does/did what was necessary to continue supporting myself.
I feel confident that I can speak for many other taxpaying folks that we actually DON’T mind helping single parents supplement their incomes or assist the elderly or disabled get through life a little easier. In fact, many of us taxpayers do volunteer work at food pantries, Meals on Wheels, drive people to medical appointments and a variety of other community services. But we are just being selfish. You know what does bother us taxpayers…people who take advantage of the system. The people who use the system as a LIFESTYLE instead of a means to SUPPLEMENT their needs. Too many people EXPECT the government to TOTALLY SUPPORT them because they simply don’t want to do it themselves. And you have the unmitigated nerve to call us taxpayers, selfish. Really?
And what about the highly profitable corporations that get deductions, subsidies; they get to spend their money as they see fit, right? Some spend on lavish retreats and bonuses, some goes to support foreign corrupt governments, etc. That is where MOST of our welfare goes, not to poor people.
If the intensity to go after corporations and wealthy tax cheats matched the vitriol against the poor, the position would be principled, and not selfishness. There is no such intensity. There are no high minded principles here. This is class warfare. A game funded by the wealthy to promote distracting witch hunts so they can continue the extraction. Do you realize that Wall Street cost homeowners more in 2008-2009 than has been spent on all forms of “welfare” in our countries history? Do you get how big $7 trillion is? For this they got free money bailouts. How did they spend them? remember the lavish retreats the execs were seen on just weeks later? Principles, my butt.
The wealthy paying for this type of propaganda have you right where they want you.
Yes it is selfish to suggest you should be free to spend the dollars you have as you see fit, but the poor and disabled must spend every dollar the way you want them to.
As for taking all of those drug tests like a badge of honor, I will not submit to them. I don’t use drugs but I have read the constitution and unless there is cause, my person is off limits to the state. You may have low standards for adherence to the bill of rights, but I value mine. Equal treatment under law means unless everybody gets tested, I do not! If that means I cannot work for a given company, I don’t want to work for a company that treats my civil liberties as superfluous. Decisions. I get to choose. Get it?
Freedom is about being able to make choices for ourselves, good bad or indifferent. For some, drowning the pain of their lives in liquor is more important than new clothes. That is not my decision to make for them.
The policies being promoted by you and many others here are not reasonable in a free country. Freedom is not a panacea. We have to watch people fail and make bad decisions. If they waste their benefits, it doesn’t cost you any more or less. They meet the eligibility then it is up to them.
If you inherited a million dollars and gave it all to a cult, you too would be eligible for benefits. Should the government also make sure that people spend and invest their money a certain way to make sure they do not become dependent on assistance? Where does it stop?
I want a say in how they spend that money because it is MY MONEY THEY ARE SPENDING! Not as it is meant to be spent, on their children, but on alcohol and cigarettes. And you are so incorrect in your assumption that FEW get away with it. Thousands and Thousands get away with fraud and it is time to punish them. Bankers and Traders are providing jobs. They do not engage in stealing from me. They are making money. They work they get paid. hmmm interesting concept.
Don’t believe everything that LePage and the media tells you. There are not thousands of TANF clients committing fraud. In Maine there were only 14,000 cases in January 2012. Most of these are single mothers and children abandoned by the father. Maine benefits are the lowest in the Northeast. The benefits are not high enough to cover most rent expenses.
I happen to be one of those mothers who raised children on my own. I did not go get benefits! I WENT AND GOT A JOB!!!!
No it is not. I don;t get a say in whether the government spends my taxes on wars I don’t believe in. In any governed society, once we are assessed the tax bill, it is not our money anymore.
Interesting that you, like all of the others who reply with an opposing view to mine, resort to insinuating I do not understand work. Coming from a poor family, I was the first ever to graduate college, and with honors. Earned a masters which I worked to pay for. Top of my class again. Ever since, I have worked hard and never lost sight of my conscience. I have room in my world for caring about those who have not had the ability to get out of poverty. Not everyone can be winners. Capitalism means some will not make it on their own. If you want a safe and civil society, you have to consider how to make sure that the unsuccessful have at least basic needs met. If you don’t you get what is happening in Greece right now. Bankers over workers. Athens burns.
Here’s how to reform welfare — Stop it
amen!!!!!
What an fing joke! How do you even allow the program to go into affect without haveing these problems taken care of! Oh wait they didn’t care, they just figured the public wouldn’t care….what a bunch of monkeys! It’s funny, when I use MY Health Savings Account card…this card has money that my paycheck put into it or the company I work put into it, we are expected as mature adults to use it for medical purposes. If we use it (like a co worker once did) to buy alcohol you better make sure you pay it immediately back or you can have an audit done and be fined an or punished further. Glad to see the government has it all figured out for the working man, but the Walmart shopping, butt smokeing, Allans brandy drinking, baby making welfare frauds don’t have much to fear or make them want to get off their arses!
Wow, I thought all of the democrats posting on these pages and walking the halls of the Capitol Building in Augusta said that this just does not happen or it is insignificant. I guess they were lying or they just plain did not bother to get their facts straight.
I am cheering right now! I was thinking the same thing. All those democrats on these sites saying that we are unfeeling, mean, rotten people for feeling like assistance should be limited! Maybe someday I can spend my own money on my kids instead of paying for the beer and cigarettes for the “poor” people. I guess I am just selfish!!
Outfits like Pine Tree Distributors and tobacco wholesalers would have conniption fits were the use of assistance funds for their products be banned, and don’t think for a minute they wouldn’t put money behind their complaints. As we know, money is the root of all legislation.
Okay so you guys ARE for the Nanny State!!!! Quit trying to have it both ways. The rich can do anything they want, hands off and the poor need to spend every dollar just the way you want them to. Keep it moving, no double standards here.
Suggesting that the disabled, for example, who collect assistance for life can never vote, now that’s democracy, huh? And what of corporations that get tax breaks and subsidies? Do they get less free speech for feeding at the trough?
Let me guess, you also love the bible and the constitution. And what are their suggestions for how to treat the poor?
Cognitive dissonance, much?
Who said anything about the disabled? I think the lady from Texas was pretty specific. I guess you must have used your liberal read between the lines glasses.
Seriously? The Bible? Where do you liberals get all this Bible BS?
OWS is over, save the class envy for people who care.
What is popularly referred to as welfare is anything people get without working, right?
Class envy, not! I do not or could not envy the class who have foisted destructive policies on this country through abuses of influence. What I have is respect for people who do the best they can given what they have. Workers have been punished by conservatives. The poor have been targeted. This in spite of the fact that workers have provided their employers decades of increasing productivity only to be pink slipped and shown the door and then castigated by their neighbors as lazy. It is an unconscionable wrong to treat decent, well intentioned people this way.
Just another form of Paul Violette’s turnpike ‘gift cards’.
Welfare!
The Republican Scapegoat!
Welfare–
The Republican Scapegoat!
Want to see welfare fraud? Go to Hannaford at the Airport Mall and watch what all the Capehart Cuties are buying.
“John Martins, director of communications at DHHS, said state authorities are researching options to help clamp down on purchases of alcohol, tobacco and other items with TANF or ASPIRE money on their EBT cards”.. help clamp down? doesn’t sound that reassuring.
sidenote:
This should not be a republican/democrat/independent issue, but rather an issue of ensuring the system is used properly, to help those who need it, and to stop the abuse and misuse. Too many take advantage, and that is disgusting, regarldess of how you vote.
Can’t use TANF in a strip club!!! What is this world coming to???
Welfare, the one thing that should be heavily regulated but for some reason isn’t.
Having grown up on state aid I honestly think that if the government is going to supply food they should deliver a box each week with the necessary food to live off, coinciding with the government healthy eating guidelines. housing money should go straight to the landlord. fuel money should go straight to the fuel company. If a person needs assistance there’s no issue helping but cash should not be handed out. There should be a stigma for people receiving aid, if theres no stigma then theres no incentive to get off the state aid.