AUGUSTA, Maine — An organization representing retired Maine state workers and teachers has filed a lawsuit challenging retirement system reforms implemented last year to save money.
The 15,000-member Maine Association of Retirees on Monday sued the state retirement system over the elimination of cost-of-living adjustments for three years and a new cap on cost-of-living increases after that.
The suit alleges the state made a “solemn contractual commitment” under the contract clauses of the U.S. and Maine constitutions “never to alter certain sections of the public employee retirement statutes.” The organization alleges the move to freeze and then cap benefits breaks that promise.
MaineToday Media reports that the plaintiffs are asking the court to grant the cost-of-living adjustments retroactively.
The freeze on cost-of-living adjustments saved the state $48 million over two years.
I think the state system should be the same as the federal system for social security receipients. A cola was granted by Obama this year after he eliminated colas the past 2 years. I don’t think state retirees should get any better treatment. Times are tough all over.
obama has come out in favor of contractal law no longer applying . What’s good for the private sector should be good for all.
Agreed !
State retirees have not received a cola for 4 years and are not scheduled to receive one for another two years. How is that being treated better the social secutiy recipients?
For the same and often less taken from their pay the public sector receive much higher benefits than the system that the private sector is REQUIRED BY LAW to contribute to and that has been decreased in the past and will be again in the future.
Some animals (government drones) are more equal than others and get their very own system. Now that they are asked to share the tiniest bit of the burden and they are crying like babies.
WRONG oldmainer. State Employees pay more than SS. Is more than SS hard to understand? Maybe you have been reading the wrong email and going to the wrong blogs.
NOT WRONG
http://www.maine.gov/corrections/Facilities/mcc/Benefits.htm
AFSCME Employees contribute 1.15% of their gross salary and the State matches with 21.29%
I checked your link.
You don’t know how the numbers got that way do you? They got that way to pay back the money stolen from the pension system. In a few years the amount for the State would drop to 6%. Do you go to your bank and tell them you have to reduce the amount of money you owe because you are having a tough time?
Now go back and see about the 95% of employees that do not belong to AFSCME. The AFSCME employees that get that deal traded it for years of no raises, they paid for it. That was the deal offered. Then show me what is paid for SS today in the private sector. You are still WRONG, with a free pass given for being right for a tiny minority of State employees. If it is so good why aren’t you guarding prisoners?
oldmainer forgot one other “tiny minority”‘, let’s not forget that the governor exempted himself from these sweeping retirement reforms.
Exactly….and worse…..they turn and point the finger at the poor for their troubles.
They were over compensated their entire careers having been paid for 6 months of work what a few lucky one’s receive for 12 months. The gravey train is wrecked.
Get some cahoonahs and ask for a raise!
Dont complain about others— raise yourself up!
white collar state employees are underpaid compared to their counterparts. I used to work for the state (sort of — professional staff at UMaine). I make $40K more in the private sector.
I own a business and have not received even a diet cola in ten years whats the issue.Dig their heads out of the sand and look around.Unions have sucked this state dry.There is no more.
Well for one when an SSDI recipient with Medicare gets the COLA and the very next month the Medicare premium goes up an equal or even slightly higher amount than the amount of the increase. Why waste all that paperwork ? Just screw us out of it and save even more….lol….in effect we never actually get one at all.
They also pay more for their pension than for SS. Their cola is not limited to only a part of their pay like the state just passed. Exactly how is that the same?
Did State retirees get a COLA this year like SS recipients? No. I agree, treat them the same, give them a COLA this year.
Sure…Pepsi or Coke ?
The Real Thing, or course. COLA.
Unions do whats best for their members, not what’s good for the public. Down with Public Sector Unions!
Even FDR didn’t like them.
Agreed !
Your word should be your word but than again you’re dealing with the Govt. here.
Starting my day off with a good laugh, thank you BDN! – A “solemn contractual commitment” and “never to alter certain sections of the public employee retirement statutes.” Now I am no theologian but I did see Charlton Heston come down from the mountain in the movie with the stone tablets and don’t recall anything about the state workers. Which is trump: The so called solemn commitment that can never ever be changed or the 13th amendment abolishing slavery which includes my forced lifetime of servitude to support retired state workers?
Well if you break a contract AND the STATE constitution, then you should expect to be sued. And while we’re at it I hope you oppose any and all drafts that have magically happened over the past 135 years since they too would be ‘involuntary servitude.’ However in Schenck v. U.S. we learned that you only have such rights until the government decides you don’t.
Oh Mr. Drinky, contracts and constitutions are living breathing documents open to whims (I mean interpretation) of the government, right? That’s what the moral relativists like to think, except of course when their ox is being gored. I am sorry state employees, I can no longer afford to support all of you at my expense. Don’t go away mad, just go away. And by the way, I would very much like a thank you as you leave.
“you only have such rights until the government decides you don’t”
LOL…is this supposed to be “justice”?
quick question, who provided the government the “right” to make such a determination?
I don’t remember signing anything that gave the government the power to determine what my god-given rights are. And if my rights are derived from God, what say does the government hold in the first place?
Make a contract and break it you deserve to get sued.
As the Governor would say,—-
End of Story!
I believe under the Obama admin. it has provved that contractal law no longer applies in the private sector and thus means nothing in the public sector. If you have a problem contact your president who has opened this can of worms.
As you said…it no longer applies in the private sector…which means nothing regarding the public sector.
“which means nothing regarding the public sector”…because some animals are more equal than others.
Dunno what you are implying.
Perhaps you’d care to expound?
Obama 2012
Why do I get the impression that this whole Tea Party/Republican thing is starting to unravel?
The only thing uraveling going on is that of the government/none profit complex that’s been kicking the can down the road for the last 35 years. Now the bills are due and they don’t know what to do.
For 35 year nothing happened in this state without the consent of the public drones unions. Now that the bills are coming due they’d have you believe that they are just innocent bystanders instead of the root of the entire problem.
The Tea Party Needs a Kick in The Can!
You cant pay your Bills without revenue!
This story, like so many under this ‘govern-more’, is “jus’ gittin’ stahted “!
loser last ditch effort
The democrats made these deals with democrat unions and a democrat governor signing off on it. Leaving the taxpayers to foot these extravagant lifestyles of DEMOCRATS!. OUTLAW ALL PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS TODAY!!!
New state logo after 20+yrs in maine. MAINE-THE WELFARE STATE
blah blah blah..the end is near…blah blah blah…
There is a big difference between a retirment pension and welfare—you earn a pension–it’s part of your compensation package during the years that you work (for the state or a private corp) No “welfare” about it—kind of like putting into Social Security for 30 years—it is an “entitlement” because you’ve earned it and paid for it—not because sombody gave it to you for nothing.
Every year the state puts money into the pension fund–and arguably there should be enough in the fund to make the payments. Two problems–the collapse of the economy in 2008 meant that the investments made by the fund in private corporations decreased in value, so there was less money in the fund, and secondly, over the years, albeit not recently, the legislature has “borrowed” ( the correct word here is “stolen”) money from the fund when the general fund has run short. I hope that the current legislature and the LePage administration aren’t looking to raid the pension fund to solve the states current financial problems.
nobody in the private sector gets a pension any more we pay into a 401k which is routinely beat down by the markets that some how state workers deserve more is stupid. Is their a comparable job in the private sector that you could get. The state of Maine makes jobs but for them their would not be these positions. between the people that live of the state, work for the state, or the secondary jobs mandated by the state, county jobs , city jobs town jobs secondary ect. clearly 60% or more of all jobs are governmental. in the state and probabaly much more.their are the same amount of people as 30yrs ago. But some how it cost 1000% more to rule these people. The math doesn’t add up and don’t even talk to me about the college systems that educate????? our kids.
It’s not a question of what you deserve. It’s a question of what I’ve earned Many private employers contribute matching funds to 401k accounts (up to a certain amount) and the federal government does the same thing for employees who started after 1987 (which now includes most Feds). State employees contribute to their pension fund also.
If you happen to work for an employer who does not contribute any thing to your retirment fund, that’s unfortunate- maybe you should switch jobs, or maybe develop the kind of skills where employers would have to contribute towards your retirement fund in order to attract the kind of talent they need–if you want to change the system for future state employees, that’s ok—what’s not ok is to take away what current retirees have worked for and earned in their pensions.
State employees do not get social security. Our “pension” is our social security. It’s not like working for a private employer where you may have a company pension in addition to your social security.
State workers used to have the WORSE benefits going!
Then they busted up all the Private Unions and sent the jobs to Mexico!
The 1% where the only ones who benefited from that and now nobody has any money to pay Taxes for the State Pensions.
Don’t blame the Unions, Blame the Government for selling the US Labor Market to Mexico!
Tax The 1%
Yeah…because them poor ol’ bosses sure do need some help keeping workers down. Of course they have plenty of it with working class buffoons attacking other working class buffoons.
if is so easy being a boss, then be one, and never work for what the business owner is willing to pay the lowest bidder.
start your own company.
be your own boss.
then all the problems with greed just disappear.
that is right.
the CONTRACTS need to be attacked as they were never NEGOTIATED in good faith.
someone analogized the “negotiations” as this
My wife and I are getting I divorce.
she hires a lawyer to negotiate with my lawyer over who gets what.
it so happens that my wife is a divoroce lawyer, so I hire her as my lawyer to represent me and my interests (to “negotiate” against the person representing her interests)… how do YOU think the negotiations are going to shake out?
Public contracts were never negotiated in good faith. The tax payers were NEVER consulted. and we never got to negotiate.
Nor should they have been consulted. We have a republic with the masses only voting on representation. That’s in the Constitution, you know that old document that people twist only to say what they think it should say…
State employee pension is a prohibitive subject of bargaining. It is legislated not bargained and, therefore, has nothing to do with the union.
So for 35 years the Maine Dems bought off the union with taxpayer money so the unions could use that taxpayer money and elect more Dems to buy off the unions so the unions could use that taxpayer money to elect more Dems to buy off the unions….
and what does that have to do with the fact that you can’t bargain retirement. Also retirement has been around a lot longer than the union. State employees did not get the right to bargain until 1979.
Logic tells me that there a lot more non union voters in this state than there are union voters — in the last 35 years we have had 2 democrats 2 republicans and 2 independants serve as governor — if all the voters were unions voting for democrats this would not have occurred — legislators and governors are elected ( unfortunately ) by a plurality which means a lot of non union folks have to be voting in the party in power
How about if we just “tap” into the payrolls of Augusta State lawmakers?
No, the legislators exempted their own pensions from the same cuts.
This is what happens when you have law makers in Augusta that are so short sighted that they Guarantee an increase in benefits even though they didnt have an idea where our economy would be in the future. The blind leading the blinded !
what is there to say of the baby boomers who actually believed this unsustainable system would work in the long term?
If it sounds too good to be true , it probably is !, is what i would of said 20 years ago when the promises were being made .
The pensions are high, and the lawyers are hungry for their own pockets to be lined. Amazing that so many are so indifferent to the fact that spending has to be cut–it might keep that boat from being launched this summer or the round the world trip from being taken.
I am not for huge public pensions, but my mother retired under Maine State Retirement and her monthly checks is around $1200.00. I do not think that is an extravagant amount for 25 years of service.
let me ask. When did she start receiving her pension?
I think that pensions should only start being paid at about 75 years of age.
Too many state pensions can start being paid after 20 or 25 years of service. While the person is still young enough to work.
My mother retired when she was 73 years old. You think that pensions should not be paid out until 75 years of age? So because they are government employees they should have to work until they are 75, sure, whatever you think. Does some research on State pensions, most state that the recipient must meet years of service and an age requirement before benefits are to be paid out. What age do you plan on retiring or did you, if are in fact you are already retired? The average state worker is not getting rich on their retirement.
ok, great… then I would not argue with her collecting it.
I was just not hoping to hear that she is 43 and has already put in her 25 years that is all
Good, I am glad you approve. I am sure my dear mother will
be appreciative as well.
If she was 43 with 25 yrs and retired she would take a 100% pension reduction and no health care. Those are the facts, not the right wing rants.
If state employees retire before the retirement age even if they have 25 years in they lose 6 1/2% for each year before retirement age.
The average state pension is $19,000 per year. Wow, that’s going to make anyone rich!!!
Its $ 7000 more than the average ssi benefit !
No state pension can start at 20 yrs unless you are 62 yrs old, now changed to 65. Unless you really want 75 yr. old State troopers.
75 ?? Retirement age is what ? 65 ? So for 10 yrs…..what ?? Or are you saying the poor blokes should just work til they drop ?
exactly and saddly this is the average pension for alot of state retirees after 25 yrs of doing what other people dont want to do, like maybe working with the mentally challenged or ill
Many of us contend with mentally challenged liberals and propane tank/Sears Island Taliban extremists with Jesus hair every day and we don’t expect a generous tax-payer funded pension. Still, if we’ve made a commitment, we should either honor it or justify why cannot.
The pensions are high? Please tell me what the pension is for someone who works for 25yrs and retires at 60yrs old after earning 30K a year. Go ahead, give me some figures. You won’t be able to because you don’t know, you are only spouting talking points from ignorance and jealousy.
Approximately $15,000 per year (before taxes!)
Remember a deal is a deal .
Not if you were not present at the time the “deal” was made.
It is the folly of state workers signing on to such a dubious agreement, wherin they have depended upon the coercive force of government to extract their pension funds via taxation of a future generation that had not even been born yet.
The baby boomers made a ton of moronic mistakes and this is by far one of the most aggregious. The system they developed is unsustainable and it is immoral…..it’s no wonder we are seeing these problems.
The system was done that was so the state could keep there workers experience from taken other jobs . But now that some people do not have jobs they do not like the benefits that the state workers are getting . I remember when if you work for the state or the town you were consittored the bottom of the borrow an were looked down appond as low lifes . But all of a sudden people are sawing hay they have better benefits than i do thats not fair .
So did we really end up with the “best and brightest?”
yes they did you have a lot of great workers that work for the state that do there jobs
Those great state workers who “lost” hundreds of millions at DHHS. Or those great workers who flushed $80 million plus down the toilet on a Mainecare billing system that never did work. Or those great workers who negotiate for quarter million dollar affordable housing units? I could go on, but it’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
Great workers, unless of course it snows, then they can’t be bothered to get to work.
and the guy that plows your roads — the state trooper comes whenever you need him — the judge that handles you legal issues — the prison employees who keep the criminals locked up — the game warden who works days and nights and still gets up when someone is lost — come to find out I think there are quite a few state employees you have use of and for
Yes its the higher ups that make the budget not the hourly workers nice try oldmainer
people should realize that not all state workers, or even most make alot of money and the state has downsized too so many have been laid off. Granted many higher up state employees make alot, but many
make what is ave for the state
I hope you all enjoyed the paid snow days while they lasted. The gravy train is grinding to a halt. You better start making signs that say “Will regulate for food”.
“The organization alleges the move to freeze and then cap benefits breaks that promise.”
In other works, no contract language was broken but they want to convince a judge that the unspoken words represented a binding contract on Maine taxpayers. Big Labor at work to get Maine’s tax dollars. While many suffer, retirees must get raises.
State employees pay more for their penasion then they would if they were getting social security. the state pays less for the employees social security then they would if the employees were in social security. It would cost the state more for the state employees to get social security.
“the state pays less for the employees social security”
I hear this claim made repeatedly, yet every time I see a state job posted the value of the state paid share of the employees retirement benefit is listed at somewhere between 15% and 25% of salary. That is 2 to 3 times as much as social security would cost us.
Either the dedicated, hard working state employees who are writing these job posting have screwed up yet again or it is a lie that the state retirement system costs the taxpayers less than social security. Take your pick.
Or the state could be playing catchup for decades of underfunding the pension.
Oldmainer, maybe you are right to hate teachers. You never learned to read a job posting. That is not what the postings say. State employees do pay more for their pension and the state pays less than SS.
NortelNru, You’ve got to stop listening to the union hacks and do your own research.
Fortunately I overcame the poor public school teachers I had and learned to read well enough to earn a Bachelors degree and two Masters degrees.
http://www.maine.gov/corrections/Facilities/mcc/Benefits.htm
MSEA Employees contribute 7.65% of their gross salary State matches 17.65 – 26.31% depending on job position
AFSCME Employees contribute 1.15% of their gross salary and the State matches with 21.29%
Either the dedicated, hard working public employees who posted this screwed up again or it’s a lie that it costs the taxpayers less for the current system than it would for social security.
State pays 5.5% for the the pensions
So the state employees who wrote the job posting are lying?
Your lack of understanding shows clearly your prejudice. The portion the state pays that is going forward is 6%. All of the rest is the money to pay back the theft of funds from a completely funded pension system. Maybe you need to try truth in place of rhetoric.
The funds must be paid back but they should not come from the same people they were stolen from. SS will be more expensive for the state.
Social Security costs 15.3%.
The employee pays half.
What about the guy from MTA who will still receive his pension benefits. Break the rule and take it away from him and share it with those who deserve it.
They should be suing the unions who bilked them out of millions in dues while selling them something they knew was unsustainable.
Perhaps taxpayers should sue these retirees who are driving us into bankruptcy. How much will they get then?
Isn’t it bad enough that these teachers did such a terrible job teaching one generation of children? Now they want to screw the next few generations.
State pension is legislated. The unions cannot negotiate pension issues. And , yes, it does cost the state less for employees to be in the state system instead of social security. Also if the state paid SS, they couldn’t borrow from the pension to create an unfunded liability so they could balance the budget. I’m eligible for about $1400 per month in widow’s benefits, but because I receive a state pension, I can not get it. is that fair???
“And , yes, it does cost the state less for employees to be in the state system instead of social security.”
I hear
this claim made repeatedly, yet every time I see a state job posted the
value of the state paid share of the employees retirement benefit is
listed at somewhere between 15% and 25% of salary. That is 2 to 3 times
as much as social security would cost us.
Either the
dedicated, hard working state employees who are writing these job
posting have screwed up yet again or it is a lie that the state
retirement system costs the taxpayers less than social security. Take
your pick.
This is why the Unions are not in the best interest of the public. This actually means “Screw the taxpayer” we want more money just because. We do not care how rough a time the Maine taxpayer is having just to survive. We don’t care about the financial stability of the State itself.
And they claim not to understand why the business climate in this state is number 1 out of 50 as the worst state in which to do business.
I hope they win their suit.
They may represent Maine retirees, but they sure don’t represent Mainers in general.
Shame,shame on you retirees.
More tantrums from the gimme-gimme crowd.
Samadams_don’t know jack………….but sam runs his/her anonymous mouth way too much.
And don’t bother to reply anonymously.
And which taxpayer-funded mammary are YOU nursing at?
What a bunch of babies,, Lets solve the problem once and for all. Lets make the Unions responsibile for the pensions,, The state can bond a few billion and give it to the Unions and make them take care of it… The State can then sign off on the deal once and for all…
That actually sounds like a great idea, and then the
government can’t take money allocated for pensions and spend it on welfare
programs. Maybe we should put that idea forth to the legislature for
consideration.
The Federal Government made firm and total contracts with all of it’s service members, and look at those promises today.
Besides, most, not all of State workers go into a state of semi retirement the day the State hires them.
Boo! Hiss!
A comment like Poleaxed’s is representative of people that possess very little understanding or respect for others outside their hateful circle of like minded dullards
Apparently hate is defined as not giving msally everything she demands.
When the truth hits home, the real culprits crawl out of the wood work.
So, Mr. Violette who stole from the citizens of Maine thru the Maine Turnpike Authority will collect his pension while he is in prison. But the hard working citizens of the State of Maine who have not stolen from the citizens of Maine are being punished for the budget crisis by with holding cost of living raises. What is wrong with this picture?
There seems to be some misconceptions about the state retirement fund. When someone goes to work for the state they must join the retirement fund because the state does not participate in the social security system. This is not a negotiated choice. Maine Revised Statues subsection 17651 ” All state employees and teachers become members of the State Employees and Teachers Retirement Program as a condition of the employment.” This is not a pension fund it is a retirement fund the state utilizes instead of participating in the social security system, largely because it saves the state money.
Each employee pays in 7.65 % of every pay check they receive to finance this fund. They must paticipate in the system for 10 years before they are eligible. Most must participate for 25 years and retire at 65 years of age before they can claim full benefit. For every year they retire before the age of 65 they give up 6% of their eligible benefit.
They can not draw social security or medicare.
The average benefit is 19,000 per year … not what one would call a path paved with gold.
Giving up their COLAs for a couple of years such as social security receipients have had to do is not really such a hardship.
For the general public to perceive this retirement system as some type of golden parachute is wrong.
But there is a kicker in the deal — Mr LePage has to contribute the same 7.65% — but at the end of his four years in office he will begin to receive 37.5 % of his annual salary or 26,250 for the rest of his life — that he will be spending in Florida
Amen, CountyBorn! You hit the nail on the head!
Nicely put…
the leftys,unions and lawsuits.What bunch! the 1 %ers of the entitlement game are at it again.Funny how it is different when it is other peoples money.I know how to fix this lets just bill anyone making over 100 grand a year.Oh wait! they would just be billing themselves.
divide and conquer.
the dems are in bed with the repubs, and they are getting us good people to point fingers at one another, when THEY are the problem
The Maine Association of Retirees is not affiliated with any Union. In order to belong you have to pay a small monthly fee. I don’t belong but sure do help they succeed. Getting someone to work for you by promising them certain benefits at time of retirement and than once you’ve fulfilled your side of the deal the employer reneges on their side of the deal should be illegal. If you want to change the deal do it to new hires not employees or retirees who have given 25-40 of service.
Many people have pensions with no cost of living adjustment.
But this takes the place of Social Security. Those people with private pensions get to collect both. State workers do not get to collect Social Security plus their pension. Do you understand the difference? Social Security recipients receive cost of living adjustments in January, State worker have not had an increase in three years!
Hate to inform you that the increase in January for social security was the first in three years. The method of calculating the cost of living adjustments were set up that for the last couple of years they were frozen. No increase was allowed period.
Is the pension some kind of lifetime annuity? could they take the cash value and invest it as they please instead. What happens it you get terminal cancer before you retire? you and you family loose all the money you paid in. I talked my mother out of taking her pension her monthly check is about the same but she has 40k more in her funds than before she retired .I know it was a bit of a risk but the math did not add up to me With no cost of living increase.
Does your mother get social security? If so the state pension is in lieu of social security. Also if anyone worked for social security and qualified then went to work for the state and they get a pension form the state they only receive about 40% of the social security they qualify for. If a state employee moves to Florida they can draw all of their social security that they earned.
Is Social Security some kind of lifetime annuity? Don’t you understand that State workers pay into the retirement fund INSTEAD of Social Security? This is their Social Security and they pay more into it than you pay into Social Security. Do you get it now?
Hey Dilbert, I personally am doing well. My concern is with is with those who have a positive work ethic, don’t have collective bargaining bullies to represent them and just can’t get ahead because of the blood sucking of government and unions. You kmow what I mean??????Have a great evening!
It’s plain and simple….The State entered into an agreement (contract)…. Too freakin’ bad it’s “inconvenient” for the State. You don’t balance the books on the backs of educators. Show some class…honor the commitment and do what’s right….plain and simple.
I think the state should do away with retirement plans. Let all state workers and teachers plan for their own future and make their own investments. This is how it’s done in the real world with us non-state workers. This is just another form of government welfare.
Well, Butt, (may I call you Butt for short?), retirement plans are a benefit offered to prospective employees to encourage them to take a job. Maybe the state could find all the capable employees it needs for teaching and as state workers without offering retirement benefits. But that was not the decision. These workers signed on to do a certain job for the consideration offered which included retirement benefits. It was a contract. We expect, in our society, that contracts will be fulfilled by all parties to the contract. I am sure you expect people who make promises to you to live up to those promises.
Let me see if I understand this correctly. Someone collects taxpayer monies for 20 to 30 years for doing little or nothing of value; during those 20+ years on the ‘dole’ they contribute too little to an underfunded defined benefit plan; after 20+ years they ‘retire’ and begin collecting more taxpayer monies at a rate greater than their collective contributions can support; now they scream foul when asked by the same taxpayers who have supported their parasitic life to help carry their weight. Pathetic example of citizenship, but then again we must remember that the mindset of this group is not significantly different than that of the general welfare recipient.
You don’t understand it correctly. So I guess everything after the first sentence is meaningless.
The hatred expressed on this page for state workers and teachers is frightening. The ignorance about the substitution of MSRS for SS is shocking. Did a snow plow driver total your car? Did a teacher beat one of your kids. What’s wrong with you people?
My comment was directed at the the teaching profession, however, a true picture of all government worker’s compensation must include their rediculous benefit packagse to make a valid comparison. This has been well documented.