AUGUSTA, Maine — Potential fraud could be reduced if food stamp recipients were required to produce photo identification when using their electronic benefit transfer cards, according to a lawmaker who wants to see the state institute that requirement.
Rep. Lance Harvell, R-Farmington, has sponsored LD 1812, a resolve that would amend Department of Health and Human Services rules to allow food retailers to ask EBT users to show identification.
Many who testified Tuesday during a public hearing on the bill before the Legislature’s Health and Human Services Committee said the requirement would have unintended consequences and they feared that it might further demonize those receiving public assistance.
Sen. Margaret Craven, D-Lewiston, said the bill is the latest “assault on the poor.”
Others, though, said the requirement is a small thing that could bring increased integrity to the system.
“These are taxpayer dollars. Asking them to verify who they are, is that too much to ask?” said Sen. Nichi Farnham, R-Bangor.
The bill has the support of DHHS and the governor’s office, but there is concern over the potential burden to retailers associated with the rule change.
A work session on LD 1812 has been set for next week. Harvell said his bill is still a work in progress and could be changed before it’s voted on.
The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, commonly known as food stamps, is funded almost entirely by the federal government, with states responsible only for the administrative costs associated with distributing the benefits.
The federal income eligibility for SNAP benefits is set at 130 percent of the poverty level, but states have flexibility to set rates as high as 200 percent. Maine’s eligibility threshold is 185 percent.
As of last September, nearly 250,000 Mainers received an average of $130 in food stamp benefits every month. In the last 12 years, the state’s participation rate has grown by about 150 percent, according to statistics from the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
Although food stamp fraud is rare in Maine, some high-profile cases — including instances where recipients have dumped bottled water in order to get cash back on the returns — have thrust the issue into the spotlight.
There has been a big push in Gov. Paul LePage administration and among Republican lawmakers to cut down on fraud in many forms, from welfare fraud to unemployment fraud to election fraud.
ID requirements have emerged as one way to address forms of fraud, but many object to the requirements.
The biggest argument is that poor people don’t always have ID. Also, asking for proof of identification draws attention to EBT users at grocery stores.
Representatives from the Maine Grocers Association, Maine Merchants Association, Maine Public Health Association, American Civil Liberties Union of Maine, and the Maine Women’s Lobby, among other groups, testified in opposition.
Alysia Melnick of the ACLU of Maine said the bill would do little to reduce what already is a very low rate of fraud in Maine but would violate privacy rights and stigmatize users.
Already, EBT cards have a personal identification number, which has decreased fraud considerably, according to Shelley Doak of the grocers association.
Rep. Jeff McCabe, D-Skowhegan, also testified in opposition to the bill and said he felt it would affect a vulnerable subsection of the community: the disabled and the elderly, who often are forced to let others do their shopping.
So, are there actual numbers saying there is rampant fraud in the food stamp program (as opposed to anecdotal stories)… or are the Republicans on another fraud witch hunt much like the voter fraud witch hunt??
ask any cashier in a grocery store, convenience store, pharmacy etc. a point can be proven with sufficient anecdotal evidence.
Anecdotal evidence? Isn’t that an oxymoron?
I read somewhere that 72.8% of all anecdotes were distortions of reality.
The definition of ” oxymoron ” is hereby ammended to mean : a person who steals or uses another persons oxycodone…..pun intended
That is a very good one poormaniac!
I think I may just use that word from now on for ANYONE who uses oxy’s for anything other than its intended purpose. With new words added here and there, I think we can start a movement(or jump on one already started elsewhere) and get the word an added definition in a decade or so.
What exactly is it that you are saying? You are saying that : even though you cannot prove the point, I’m sure that there’s other’s that can?
Why would you even post a point if you don’t have one and hope like heck that someone else can prove …..what you don’t have! Do you even know what “anecdotal evidence” means? It means a small sample, that isn’t generally reliable. Did you get a new dictionary and see that phrase in another article?
” a point can be proven with sufficient anecdotal evidence.” You’re kidding, right? If you can find a few dozen buddies who believe they saw a UFO land on top of your house last night, that makes it real?
Apparently it works real well…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSRWRbuMqyc
Or we could just save the effort and ask that blogger who wanted to grow up to be Ann Coulter.
I have done it, and you are wrong. The problem is the offeneders that you have make such and impression its hard to not label everyone. Or you have the same offenders multiple times that it makes it seem like its a lot.
One is one to many.
And spending millions to deal with that “one” is too much.
Try again.
Penny wise and pound foolish.
All welfare is fraud as the money used is taken from those that worked to earn it. That aside go to your local hannafords and simply watch the checkout for a hour. For a laugh follow those who use the food stamp card out and look at what they are driving.
stalking food stamp recipients? hmmm.
He must not have a job!!!! I certainly don’t have time to hang out at Hannaford’s and watch who’s paying with food stamps then stalk them, do you???
I don’t but I usually see the young girl with 2 kids, and grocery cart full of crap I would never eat, or give to my kids, and 2 cases of “Poland spring” bottled water, and a 30 rack of Bud light that she’s going to pay for with her TANF funds. or at the gas station/liquer store I see the mother with toddler in arms buying a gallon of whole milk with food stamp funds, and a big bottle of “Allens Coffee Brandy” (maines well know drink of choice) with TANF. I can guarantee that kid is NOT getting any of that milk.. you should’nt be able to buy preparred items.. if you don’t have a job.. you can cook!! you have time!! hell I work 2 jobs (50-60 hrs a week), and I have time!!
So true!!
Who says that just because this young lady is on Food Stamps and TANF that she doesn’t work? Did you know that THE MAJORITY of welfare recipients also work?
AND it is your business that she buys coffee brandy why? You believe that she should use her money for something other than Brandy, and so you are sure it isn’t for her neighbor who gave her the money to pick it up for him>
You find it disgusting that people buy liquor (how do you know she is using TANF funds?) and beer while on welfare. Personally I find it disgusting that people stick their noses into other people’s business.
You have a gripe against welfare…. Me too, but I do not blame the people on the system, I blame the State for making these funds available while doing very little checking. I support doing drug checks on recipients. I support regular home visits to see where this money is being spent. I even support the old New Hampshire system of turning in signed reciepts for the items purchased with State funds, but I do not support people who are not State workers telling other people how to live their lives. Beer is legal, so is coffee brandy.
because I can spot a “maine” ebt card a mile away.. and that’s all she used.. I was in line behind her.. and no it was hers..
last I knew welfare/TANF are intended for food, clothing and necessities. coffee Brandy is;nt one of those..
I am a state worker…..
….perhaps he is pushing carts to feed his family!
Or making stuff up more likely
Yeah – right on. Especially servicemen and laid-off personnel struggling to keep food on the table for the family. I wouldn’t laugh at anyone who has a need for food stamps. I just thank the Lord that I don’t have to.
For a laugh? Really? What are you driving, and, how do we know that it is your’s?
If you have an hour to “kill”, why aren’t you out there making money? you know supporting everything that your Grandma probably needs? I’m certain that you work harder then any of your peers, let’s ask them?
I find it funny how people can set back, and purportedly watch…….but yet have nothing to say. You have no idea whose car that may be…….It could be mom’s or dad’s, it could be an aunt, an uncle, it could be a friends’s car………but YOU made a judgement based on …..what? What they loaded groceries into. That’s very shallow, and very not necessary. You cannot make conclusions based on information that you THINK, you have to know.
So if you show up in a 2000 Ford F150, and you use that for work,….and people are just hanging around watching you, you are dirty and just going to the store…..what do you suppose that people “just hanging around for an hour” would think of you? How would you like to be stereotyped and labelled? Especially by people like…………..you?
no joke, i was behind someone at circle k in old town the other night, they bought a ton of junk on EBT, went outside and climbed into a brand new cadillac escalade.
You continually do not have a point. If they climbed into a brand new vehicle, what on god’s earth make’s you assume that it was theirs? Have you ever borrowed a friend’s car?, how about mom or dad’s car? Did you ever think of students? You are way too quick to make your assumptions into reality, assumptions are not reality, nor are they useful, they are what they are: you assuming things that you do not know.
Apparently, poor people should just wear a badge on their lapel that indicates that they are poor, much like Hitler did with the Jews, that way we can spot them!
Very good points. There is also the matter of onetime financial settlements — often state forces purchase of something needed, a car is an example. Hold on to the cash and you get disqualified from benefits and that could be worth far more than the cash. Then you also need to reapply and that process can be a real problem.
OH — then there is something other than it being one of your possibilities — what if they had one ounce of luck and won it; or purchased it just before being laid off ? High income to no income in one day.
I know from personal experience that having a newer model car or buying a new car will lower your amount of benefits. This happens in Massachusetts. I personally know it as it happened to a family member of mine.
If you get a large amount of cash from a settlement should you not be required to spend that money supporting yourself before the state spends money supporting you? If you got even a thousand dollars you believe that you should not have to spend it in anyway towards your support but instead be able to keep it and have the state pay to support you instead?
Having a newer model car does not lower youy benefits in Maine. One vehicle per household is exempt and more than one if someone works. Otherwise only the value over a certain amount is an asset.Also a leased vehicle is not considered an asset, because the person does not actually own it. Lot’s of people lease because it’s usually cheaper than buying.
Why don’t you check out policy sinc it is readily available online.
My post was not clear. In Massachusetts the policy I was posting about exists. Im not an expert on Welfare Programs in Maine. I dont plan on becoming one either.
Hitler tattoed concentration camp inmates with numbers….please, don’t go there!
He also had the Waffen SS members tattoed with each soldiers blood type in the armpit.
Ya, did you see the article yesterday or day before here in the BDN where some would like to implement medical tattoes here in the U.S.? Very efficient, very German.
I did, and made the same comment under that article.
I did. It seems like the bracelets would be enough.If someone wanted to get a medical tatoo based on personal choice then so be it.
I ride around in other peoples cars all the time, drive them too. How many students do you know that have EBT cards with parents that own Escalades? Do you suppose they were buying nutritious food at the Circle K?
Poor people should not have to wear a visible badge. However I think we have to face reality that there are poor people in need and then people who are not using this system the right way. What ideas would you have in the effort to make the system as clean as possible?
The tea party-ruled GOP has singled out the poor, the unions, the unemployed, and race. All will be labeled, and will be ID’d, in conformance with the national policy and goals of the tea party Plutocracy. The badge of the Poor will be an ID card. Eventually they will be made to wear it on the lapel of their coats, or, jackets, for easier scrutiny by Food Stamp Inspectors.
Oh, absolutely believable. And I bet you noticed they had a “designer” manicure and underwear.
” All welfare is fraud as the money used is taken from those that worked to earn it.”
The majority of people on welfare are employed. The government has simply set up guidelines for who gets that money based on need. I feel for you if you ever reach the time of need where you will feel fraudulent for feeding yourself.
Congratulations, though, for making the most classist and ignorant statement I have ever seen on the BDN. That takes a lot!
You obviously don’t remember history. I’ll wager, that FDR’s New Deal saved your family in one way or another. Welfare is not fraud, it’s need; and we cannot be the most powerful nation in the world, what used to be the hub of a world economy, and have people suffering. It’s called pride, Walmart has a sale on personalities, it’s a “roll back” go and grab a couple of em.
Automobile envy is not an indication people are abusing the system.
Go buy a new expensive car.
go down south… watch the guy with a brand new expensive car… then look at his home!! 9 out of 10 it’s a crappy old trailer.. or a beat up, un-loved house. kinda funny really that they invest soo much into a vehicle that’s already lost half it’s value after leaving the dealers lot. when the house or trailer if it was fixed up would be worth WAY more.
You have got to be kidding? Never have I been driving and seen a Brand new expensive car in front of a crappy trailer, or beat up house, and if you did, how do you know its theres? Also if they have a brand new car, how do you know they didn’t spend the extra money for reliable transportion? What if they had an old car that kept breaking down?
You can see that example in Maine as well. Just ride around the back roads of Waldo county. I’ve seen it elsewhere in Maine as well. Just a set of messed up priorities in some cases.
Ive seen it in Washington County along Route 1 down past Steuben. Or at least I believe I have seen it. Apparently some people think people like you and I are just making these things up.
Your such a meany!!! I worked as a bagger at Hannaford when it was Shop and Save back in 93 when I had time off before going to culinary school in January. Back then the actual paper stamps were still in use so you knew people were using them. At the time my father and mother were making 65000 grand between them and I know it as I had just filled out financial aid forms. I saw some(some) people with food stamps buying foods that my parents never bought ever, even thought they had the cash to do it.
I would just as soon NOT see the rule “no person who gets EBT is allowed to buy food SalArg’s parents didn’t buy” written down as the law of the land. Just a bit too creepy.
How bout getting rid of the soda, chips and other non-staple products. These is NO need for the public dime to be wasted on feeding people that garbage.
This speaks to a larger issue of the cost of food for a healthy diet versus processed food, I think.
Healthy food doesn’t cost any more than processed food. Healthy food gives you lots of vitamins and nutrients that make you feel satisfied for a much longer period of time. If I spend $1 on a banana and an apple instead of a box of Little Debbie, the fruit fills me up and takes away my hunger for a long period of time than if I had eaten a snack cake. Processed food isn’t cheaper in the long run because those foods don’t stick with you very long before you are hungry again.
For a meal, and considering the time it takes to make dinner versus “nuking” it, that’s the point I was starting to make before I thought it would be off-topic.
I agree healthy good is better. I also agree, I guess, that healthy food can be cheaper than processed good. But the sodium and high fructose corn syrup in a lot of processed goods is terrible.
But, we’re living in an age where we’re not supposed to want to spend a lot of time and effort cooking or eating.
Sorry, but after 20 years of raising two kids, I can tell you from experience that you are mistaken about healthy food not costing any more than processed foods. Been there, lived it, did the math, made the unhealthy choices. As a single man I can tell you that a .99 bag of chips became my supper more than once and filled the void more than any .99 worth of whole foods could ever do. That .99 might get me 2 apples.
It does. Unfortunately as a professional chef I can tell you that the birds eye chicken wok dinner with it high sodium and poor nutritional quality is cheaper to buy than the individual ingredients to make the same dinner from scratch. I see it in my work and I see it also in real life buying my personal food. Its a real shame.
Amen!
Its been suggested. There is a Dentist is Bangor that some years ago was interviewed. He stated that many of his maine care child patients had advanced tooth decay related to drinking sugary drinks. I will be fair and suggest that perhaps there were plenty of non maine care patients who had severe dental decay for the same reasons.
His point is that it seemed odd the state was paying for people to buy things that ruined thier teeth and then turned around and paid for the dental treatment needed to correct the damage.
One womans response was that she was on food stamps and if she couldnt by soda her son would feel deprived. What if she wanted to have a birthday party for him and she couldnt buy soda? What would the other kids think of the kid?
Of course others screamed that it was just plain evil to tell people what they could buy with funds given to them by the State that the State took from other people to begin with. We all have a constitutional right to eat chips and cookies.
The soda? Well you can gettle a bottle of name brand soda for around 1.50 or less depending where you shop. Store brands are under a dollar. But of course asking some people cant afford that type of expense from what I understand.
People who take state aid that are able to buy higher cost items than people who take no state aid? Well maybe that is not creepy to you. I personally dont find it creepy either? I just find it plain wrong.
“All welfare is fraud”–a statement very likely uttered by an individual who believes he is immune from layoffs and could never possibly develop an illness that could lead to medical bankruptcy.
One day it might be YOU who are in need of assistance.
It is easy to castigate someone who stands up for those in need. Everyone wants to curtail abuse of the system. No one supports the few who show no respect for the plan, especially those well paid professional people with beach side homes, who have recently been caught fraudulently claiming benefits. Overall, it is part of our obligation as Americans to assist those in need. The system apparently needs an overhaul to re-classify applicants viability for such programs.
I’m not sure fraud is the only thing those of us who are against the present system have an issue with.
Many of the things we see are not “fraud” just wrong.
As an example. There are a couple of food stamp people here who I know are on food stamps (they discuss it freely) which is our money to buy their food because they don’t make enough money. Yet because we buy their food for them they have enough money to go to waterfront concerts, get tats that cost as much as $200 in one case, and recently one of the ladies had her privates pierced, again all done with their money.
The problem we have isn’t that these people are engaged in fraud just that they have enough money for all of this discretionary spending while those of us who are just a bit above their poverty line do not. How is this system a fair one?
One of them has put off marrying her live in boyfriend for many years now because she doesn’t want to change her income status.
Is that fraud?
Is it fair?
let the flame wars begin
im in favor
LD 1829- “An act to require photographic identification for prescriptions for certain controlled substances”. Why isn’t there any talk about this one?
http://www.mainelegislature.org/LawMakerWeb/summary.asp?ID=280043875
Hard to keep up with this busy Legislature and the ridiculous bills they’re pushing for IDs. Maine GOP Tea Party edict: Fear is the best weapon. Keep everyone on edge. Scare those on food stamps, unemployment benefits. Rattle the unions, do away with insurance benefits. Put people where they belong – as Peons to the Plutocrats.
Because there are alot of ramifications. You can get a prescription: in the hospital, you can get one, out of state, ; you can have someone pick up your prescriptions for you: you can also fake Id’s.
You have to show proof now to pick up a controlled substance how would LD1829 be any different?
If you use wic you need to have your wic ID folder with you when using the checks and they stores are supposed to check the signatures to make sure they match. Whether the stores do it is different but thats how its supposed to work. So why is it so wrong for food stamp users to prove that they are using their own food stamps? There is nothing wrong with it. If it wasnt abused the law wouldnt be discussed so blame it on the people who fraud the system. Some may not think its fair but if it needs to be done other will just need to understand.
Does your WIC ID folder have your picture in it? Does WIC allow you to purchase items that are not generally used for infants? Does WIC allow you to purchase what you plan for meals?
The WIC program is much more fraudulent than the food stamp program, you can trade coupons and such. All they have to do is put them in their folder. Apples and Oranges…..two different things
And damn, my wife and I found several WIC coupons at Walmart the other day……guess what we did? We turned them in so the person that lost them could find them! It’s based on the needs of children, not adults. Up to 98% of the WIC program’s expenditures are federally funded. The State gets money for administering it. Much like food stamps, but the ID requirement is a state requirement, not the feds, who pay for the damned thing.
My id is always checked with my wic, always. My checks cannot ever be traded for anything. Wic is for woman, infants, and children. It has helped in simple situations when all we need is a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread. I have never had a personal issue with wic. They have been very helpful to us and my child. When you only get two paychecks a month (which I know is common) it is helpful to be able to just get 6$ in fruits and veggis. People are going to abuse any type of help at anytime because it is offered and its easy. I was simply saying that I have to show my ID and Wic folder with my signiture and family number every time I use a wic check, I have always been asked and that really is the way it should be to prove that they are not stolen or bought checks. Whether stores do it or not is a different story. You cannot trade wic checks because your name is supposed to be on them, that is why a chashier is supposed to compare signitures and check your id. I always get checked, I always have. And I cannot trade mine and never have.
Well, aside from that, …… how is it that corporations who receive bailout’s can promote, and give bonuses to executives, without validating their expenses? How is it that people with money, corporations with capital and assets can file for bankruptcy and be protected, and still receive bail outs?
And we are talking about food stamps and WIC ? It’s a shame.
I don’t know, ask Obama!
I think you will find that those of us on here that are in favor of having to show an ID for welfare were definatly NOT in favor of obama’s bailouts!
The GM/Chrysler bailout is highly successful. Workers were able to keep their jobs. GM is back on top with big profits whilst recruiting more workers. GM is re-paying the treasury.
Bush bailed out Wall Street for $700 billion. That is acceptable by the GOP-tea party clan, even though Wall Street tycoons pocketed millions in bonuses. Obama’s plan was called “Socialist.” Bush’s plan was “Free Enterprise.” Millions lost their homes through foreclosure. Obama is attempting to have banks equitably re-finance those who were short changed by a money grubbing lenders.
What about the elderly who have another family member shop for them because they are unable to. Are you going to drag them along shopping just to prove they are eligible? And it is a lot easier to use someone’s WIC than it is food stamps. Do you have to use a a picture ID to use a debit card? Isn’t that what a food stamp cards. Just more solutions looking for a problem.
Easy. Its called a power of attorney.
I am well aware that there is the option of a power of attorney.I have one for my mother, but do we issue photo ID to the POA also? Won’t that cost a lot of moneyif we have to do it for everyone authorized to use the card. How is that going to reduce all this perceived fraud?
Don’t you have to get a lawyer for that? If you are on food stamps could you afford one?
come on! I think you are now taking it wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too far!
I see your point and feel there is some way around this such as Power of Attorney. People who abuse the system are actually hurting the elderly, I Ithink a bill like this would help protect them. The elderly seem to be the ones getting cut back on funds, while the abusers seem to get more and more.
I receive food benefits and I wouldn’t mind showing my ID. I have nothing to hide.
I have to for wic and it never bothers me. I understand that wic checks are stolen and sold all the time.
I say put the picture right on the card. I would be okay with it. I recently retired with a subsequent reduced income and I’m grateful for the help on my food budget. If you shop economically and healthy and cook instead of fast foods. You can get by on your alottment.
thats a good idea,u have a picture on a credit card and it works out alright,good one!
When a person signs up for stamps, that should suffice. We don’t all these ID cards being issued by the tea party clan.
Yes Briney, but there is a problem with some people who receive these benefits that trade them for money, drugs etc.. It is to cut down on fraud and is not meant to “hurt” the people who use the funds correctly.
How fraud is there?
You must of been born in yesteryear! People have traded their cards for years for their drug usage. You know- ‘”here’s my FS card and pin number, you get 100.00 in food, and I’ll take an 80 Mg!”
spoken like a true liberal!
They may just be a person who is receiving this benefit and don’t want to see things changed. They could very well be a Republican.
if you are that quuick to yell ( tea party -clan ) you really need to rethink your work- you should work for MSNBS- that sould bit will serve you well- THE POINT WAS NOT SIGNED UP – WHO IS USEING THE CARD – I have a photo on my visa card- issued by the 1%
My biggest fear about having my picture on my EBT card is that it will turn out looking like my driver’s license picture. I suppose you could keep looseing it until you got a good picture.
I know that was meant as a joke but this article is about saving the state some money, which reprinting cards would not do.
When you buying over 250,000 cards the cost is pennies.
replace the cards as new ones are issued
License pictures are awful, at least mine always have been since the digital cameras have come into use. Passport photos are worse!
True, but what about the stores? The cards are not made to be read at a distance and they are swiped like credit cards by the owner — clerk never touches card — but now the card will need to be handed to the register clerk so they know the name that should be on ID. I wonder how many people who want this bill to pass who will then cheer when they are trying to check out an clerk has five food stamp clients to handle first, then drops the card of one.
I predict a significant slowdown in the speed on the checkout line — which is why the markets went to self slide in the first place … it moves the line faster.
it is not any different than handing your card over so that the cashier can check your signature and yes they are supposed to do that.
Showing ID is done when cashing a check and it doesn’t slow down check out lines. In some stores the clerks have to swipe the cards just like they have to credit cards.
Big deal.
Did you notice who opposed this bill?? The Maine Grocers!!!!!
Yet the latest in a series of Republican bills designed to address a ‘problem’ that may or may not exist. Much like voter fraud. Where is the evidence that people who receive food stamps are giving their cards away for others to use?
I agree with you. BTW, there is only one retailer, well-known in Maine, that has ever asked me to show my ID along with my debit card.
I think most people would agree with you Rick…they wouldn’t mind.
How many jobs will this bill create?
About as many as you create sitting on your butt all day commenting on BDN stories. But at least this bill might help make sure our tax dollars are going where we think they’re going.
How do you know that he isn’t sitting in his office, at work waiting for a meeting? How do you know that he maybe on break and on his laptop?…..YOU DON’T.
And how do we know that you have spent a full day at work, probably worked 25 hours in a 24 hour day and have the time to post the same as he did?
That’s pathetic, and where exactly are the tax dollars supposed to be going? Einstein?
Every penny counts when the tax base keeps shrinking. Especially since no one in our state government seems to think that jobs are a priority despite the recent news of lay-offs…just keeps getting smaller.
Just another bureaucratic tea party goal. IDs for stamps, voting, and others they have yet to publicize. It’s part of the tea party clan’s “less government” program/
You have to have ID’s for everything now. If people can’t pay $5.00 to get a State ID card these folks have major issues then. Just mandate ID’s for the major things you need ID for as I stated above you need it for most everything now anyways. Delay the law to first of the year if they have to do so and help these folks get ID. It’s not that hard folks the Liberals need to stop making excuses and finding fault with everything. But we need to start having better account of where this money is going and who has these cards.
These people DO have “major issues.” They have extremely little money. And you want to force them to spend $5, which to you is nothing, because you have a preconceived notion that all unemployed, elderly, or disabled people, everybody who went broke over sky-high medical bills, is cheating.
You guys are arguing a point that is absolutely not an issue! what percentage of people don’t have an ID. At least make sense when you are pushing your liberal debates!!!
Five dollars, and time off. A lot of people on food stamps work.
Who says you have to have IDs for everything? The tea party? Branding everyone a “Liberal” if they do not show complete acquiescence to your tea party mandates is radicalism. It even smells of Fascism.
Funny part is if they cant afford to feed themselves for a whole month what makes you think that they can afford a drivers license/state id or even get there to get one for that matter. Let alone a car insurance payment , Gas for the month, + extra gas to go to the dmv if they don’t have the money ohhhh i almost forgot there’s rent , electric bill , etc…………
this is welfare ( poor) people that cant afford to live on the most basic of necessities after there necessary bills are paid ( dhhs doesn’t count a cell phone as necessary) they only count ( Rent , Elect, *Car insurance, *Gas
* in some cases these are allowed but most are not.
a state id is like 5.00
Infact you can do it online now with the same pic you had on the current card. But Liberals think civilization is coming to a halt so they are putting up a fight.
Don’t clump all liberals into the same pile. Some people have liberal social views but are fiscal conservatives.
Really, you think its okay for the government to mandate that you have to pay for something to receive anything from the government? I have no problem with the ID law, you better make them free, then I have a problem.
Have there pic right on there card like you driver lic.
Because they get free cell phones now with more minutes than a person really needs for an emergency! You are required to have an ID to even apply, so that is a moot point!
amen!! and if they don’t have to work then they have plenty of time to stand in line at the dmv. And a photo state ID costs $5. Less than a pack of cigarettes that many on welfare have the money to buy.
Simple not true.
What is “simple” not true?
What’s the purpose of the picture on this story?
You will be able to have a shiny new card, with your picture on it!! But, I suspect that there is more meaning to this. I wouldn’t be surprised that if this passed, then the Charlie Webster’s of the world would say, “see, there’s the identification we need, let’s make everyone have one in order to vote!”
He’s already pushing that – I thought. As said many times before: We do not need or want anymore ID cards.
what are you and rusjan afraid of? Your words are full of hate and worry…something to hide?
I have no problem with that either. People should be able to show a photo ID in able to vote. It would keep FRAUD down.
This whole situation is much likened to the voter registration issue. If they can’t get what they want, they are going to desperately chip away and try force their way, and by doing so, it’s going to cost alot of money to issue shiny new cards, with shiny new pictures on them, and guess which department will be responsible for this……DHHS!
Real smart thinking. Watch out and stay tuned for the next Tea Party crisis alert, news at 5!
None of us are asking the state to print “shiny new cards” We are asking the people using the ebt cards to show a photo ID. Good God man stay on topic.
Good god Jennifer,……what happens if a person doesn’t have an ID?
It happens, and it happens often……….no money for a driver’s ed/ license and no money for a state ID. What do you do then? Jennifer? Tell them to go to another store and lose what sale you may have?
Bonehead, this isn’t all about welfare, this is also about sales.
You need help
I have forgotten my ID plenty of times when I go to get some smokes and every clerk has no problem losing a sale.
That is because there are stiff penalties, it will depend on what happens if you use a EBT card without checking.
That is only if I am under 18. I don’t believe there is a law that says they have to card everyone. That is store policy.
They can’t sell to anyone below 18, if they do they get in a lot of trouble, not just the business but the person who sold them are both fined a lot of money. If taking and EBT card with out ID doesn’t have any type of penalties then store owners will maybe take the risk.
Just like East Germany. Everybody gets to be a GDR type shill for the new and improved Maine welfare police and rat out everybody they deal with that makes them quiver with suspicion.
Yahoo!
If they have no ID then they don’t get welfare. Plain and simple. I am sure that some how some way they could come up with $5 for an ID. COME ON!!!!! You are just being ridiculous!!!!!
How often. show me the statistics. I have not seen the MANY without lisenses!
What state are they referring to when they say that fraud is rare…because I can name dozens of cases of other people buying food stamps cards for half price in cash! Some don’t even take the card back, the buyers keep it in their possession each and every month! Store employees KNOW the customer is using other peoples cards, and they DON’T care….
AND when you try to call in a report of fraud, nothing gets done about it!
Why aren’t they reporting it!!!! Sounds like just another “I know someone” and proves nothing.
you are right, there is no proof…that is the problem… I know it happens, I see it happening, and so do many others, but how do you prove it? Carry around a camera, zoom into the name on the card?? No I’m not doing it. Even when a call is made with proof that someone is collecting food stamps illegally, because they lied about things on their application, nothing is done about it…. Legitimate Paperwork at DHHS never gets filed on time so why would they bother with a complaint….it’s a joke.
And you would know this, how? Have you ever worked at DHHS? Did you watch the person complete the application on which they allegedly lied? What is legitmate paperwork? Just all more assumptions.
I reported it twice. I had a tenant who did it all the time. No one from the state ever responded to my complaint. I evicted the bum because of it. When he asked me why I was evicting him, I told him that was why. His response? “Everyone does it”. He even had pine tree legal try to rescue him. There was nothing they could do. He was a tenant at will, I could evict him without cause.
I don’t personally know too many people on foodstamps, but so far, of the ones I do know, 1/2 are selling their benefits.
They state would never respond to you because of confidentiality. They could not even tell you if the person was even on Food stamps so you have no idea what the state may have done regarding this.
How do you spouse things like this will happen?
You just stated that Food Stamp Fraud is very rare in the state of Maine. Some poor people don’t have ID. As it is I am sure it’s very awkward for people who are on the program to use the card now they are going to be targeted at the grocery store for ID that will point them out as poor people so more people can talk behind their backs. Just like when the paper food stamp was out. As a kid my parents used them an I wouldn’t use them in the grocery store in fear that my friends might find out I was poor or my parents had no money for food.
Lepage must feel awesome about himself for trying to do this lets point out the poor people in the world I am the owner of all the Maddens in the state of Maine cause I am rich an screw the poor people lets make their lives even more hell.
You know that 90% of the places the EBT card is used the user has to slide the card themselves.
Is there going to be a big pause before it says approved an say can I make sure you’re the owner of that EBT card load enough so others can hear them. I think it’s sad to know this is what the world is going threw. If this is the case I think that all poor people on the EBT program should be given a raise. Lets point them out so the rich an point an stair an say there my tax dollars going to good use. Leave the poor people alone already.
Why try an fix something that isn’t broken?
There are tons of other things this State could be worried about.
Like the Tanf money it should be used for the welfair of your children not for Flat Screen TVs an frigging Video Game Consoles. I know a family that lives in Auburn Maine that does just this. They have two minor children under the age of 4 years old that live on the state an has Big Screen TV an a xbox 360 among other things they are renting with their Tanif money that is sposed to help pay for their child’s well-fair.
The tea party clan is hell bent on revolutionizing Maine and its people. Their goal is to have everyone ID’d. Thumb prints, palm prints, toe prints, footprints, and even numbers tattooed on your wrist.
Each day they create a crisis. Fraud is rampant in Maine, they claim, and introduce another bill that calls for a probe, an investigation, an inquiry, and booting someone out who acts awfully suspicious, or, not in tune with the governor’s thinking.
Followers tell everyone that “You had it good for 40 years. Now it’s our turn.” So, what did we do during those 40 years, except work for a living? But that’s the tea party clan’s broad conception that we are all no good liberal socialists, and they had nothing to with those 40 years whatsoever – a distinct class of their own.
I think your rant is a bit paranoid as well as a bit off point.
I agree with your conclusion
Poor people aren’t allowed to have spouse’s CT, nope, you have to live in a trailer and have absolutely nothing……and be ridiculed because you don’t. And when the time comes to use the card, YOU have to go, because poor people don’t deserve respect.
That’s crap!
Give me a break. State ID is $5.
Well said paying $5.00 is not that hard. You need ID’s to buy beer, to go play Bingo, Casinos, Horse Racing, Certain movies at movie theaters, buying Fireworks in Maine. The Democrats are crying fowl as the always do trying to find fault with an issue that isn’t a big deal. If they would have kept these progams to only help the elderly and truly disabled when they were in power. We wouldn’t need this law. They have these ID’s at certain local town halls on certain times of each month. Just open up more of these portable facilities delay the law till the start of the new year and get these folks ID’s. End of story Liberals need to stop crying like little babies and get with the program.
DK……hi. You really, really need to think politically and stop trying to taut the ole same ole. It’s really not relevant, and your party is in turmoil; statewide and nationally, you gotta come up with a different strategy.
The honorable Sen. Snowe has decided not to run; that’s got to be a sign of disenchantment and frustration.
Peace to Senator Snowe, she so deserves it. Peace to you too DK! you deserve it as well.
By the recent polls, I would think your party is in turmoil. They have both Repub front runners beating Obama.
By the way, I am praying for $5 gas, it will definately be the end of Obama!
amen!!
Obama doesn’t control the price of gas, its the free market that determines the price of gas. As the world recovers for the down turn of 2008, oil is going to be in greater demand thus higher oil prices.
What is wrong with showing ID’s. Just mandate showing ID’s for the major things including EBT cards and get it over with. Democrats should stop crying and start doing something. They are all talk , blowing smoke but still nothing accomplished. Doesn’t matter if they have the majority or not.
The problem is that Elderly people have someone else do there shopping for them, A wife might have the husband do the shopping.
So great, let’s make sure that Id’s are available to everyone. If it is only 5 bucks, why not make it free? What’s the 5 bucks for?, since the government is trying to require picture ID’s, then it should pay for them, especially when 5 bucks means a meal or two to someone.
Ok Jen, let’s take a kid that is 16 years old. Never has taken a driver’s course and lives in …ohh let’s say Lewiston. She get’s pregnant and wants so hard to live the baby’s father, but hi is 17 and doesnt want’s nothing to do with the baby. No child support until the baby is born, then it will take months
WIC, is not going to keep that young lady alive. She applies for food stamps, and has nothing but a birth certificate…..when does she get to eat?? Mom and Dad are digusted with her, because “she was brought up better than that”………
Now she needs an ID? to prove that she is pregnant and hungry?
I’ve seen this I can’t count how many times, and I know when someone is lying. People that lie to you, never look you in the eyes while doing so; I’ve seen desperate people and family’s
If they did look you in the eyes and lie to you: the are either a : lawyer; banker; insurance representative or a drug dealer, only professionals look at you square the eye and lie…..politicians are selective liars.
I am rolling my eyes so bad I am getting a headache. This 16 year old girl would have a student ID from school with her name and picture on it. Not to mention that consequences are a wonderful thing to learn. I do not believe that you could possibly be arguing this. People on Welfare should not have MORE rights than the general public that are paying their way!!!!
I bet the 16 year old will make sure to have a cell phone.
and if you are going to require one for state programs and voting they better damn well be free.
Why? Why should they be free? I am required to show a driver’s license and that isn’t free!
Free food forever for $5? Sorry the price is just too high. No thanks.
This has pro’s and con’s. Those selling them will just take the person they are selling them to with them. Many already are, as stores have camera’s and people willing to sell their stamps aren’t the most trustworthy people. Therefore, the person purchasing the card doesn’t trust them not to call card in stolen, so they make the seller purchase the groceries. Then pay them outside once free from the camera’s.
Elderly won’t be able to send someone for their groceries. Those disabled and wheelchair bound or on chemo won’t be able to send a caregiver for groceries. This might stop someone who is a caregiver using the card for their own groceries, but probably not, they will just drag the disabled person out into the cold, then use the groceries for themselves once home. Cruel ignorant people, are just that selfish! I don’t think this will slow down fraud much if at all, sorry. I still see nutritional vouchers as an answer. Healthy food options. Chips and cases of water isn’t on the menu.
Jeff McCabe made a good point; what about the disabled and elderly? I have worked in home health care and it is common practice for a home health aide to use a client’s EBT card to do the client’s shopping. That is a completely valid reason to use someone’s EBT card as the disabled and elderly usually are unable to go to the store themselves or accompany the aide. I would like to know how they intend to handle that problem.
Interesting Rep. Mccabe testified against the bill but he is one of the bills numerous
co-sponsors along with a large number of Democrats. Rep. Mccabe needs to explain himself he is playing both sides of the issue. Maine should mandate showing ID’s for everything we have to show it to buy Beer, Gambling at Casinos, Horsetracks, Movies, Fireworks etc.. This would be no different its our tax dollars to pay for these folks who have these EBT cards.
There could be a form to fill out that gives the shopper permission from the client or family member or they can write a note, then the person doing the shopping should have to provide their ID.
Just like with credit cards. The worker would have to be designated as an authorized user.
I wouldn’t mind showing ID if DHHS gave me a new card with my married name on it instead of saying it would take to long to receive it. Also for 2 parent households you’re still only allowed one card with one name on it….so what happens if the card has my name on it but my husband goes grocery shopping? There are more things that need to be resolved before just saying we should have to show our ID. I would however not mind showing it as long as they make it possible for these changes
We’re not at war. We don’t need all these stupid ID cards these tea party clans people keep pushing.
What is your deal with the tea party???
She’s confusing them with the fascist liberals.
Facism = right wing….. Communism = left wing
It is impossible for a liberal to be a fascist or a conservative to be a communist. Please get your political labels correct.
I think the deal is that they push for less government, but then try and expand it instead.
I am sure they would have the capibility to put 2 names on a card OR issue a card to you and your spouse.
So, issue more cards, another additional expense? As a single working mother with a handicapped child, I also qualify for the food supplement program. I have to prove my identity as well as my childs at least once a year to DHHS. As so many small minded people have already commented, you might see me in the store and assume all sort of things about me without knowing my situation. And by the way,,its NOT your business either.
When you’re taking my money it most certainly IS my business.
Wow once a year! That must be tough.
The tea party believes everyone should carry an ID card, just like those living in occupied countries had to during WWII.
Tattoo’s would be easier, permanent, and therefore less costly.
I think it time we required all Teapartiers to carry idea so we can know who they are!!!
carry idea????
Lol ID
When you have to reach into your pocket to support the Teapartiers then you can require them to carry ID’s. Don’t want to have to have ID, support yourself.
I do.
i dont quite see how this will really work out. they only issue one main card to the recipient/family. therefore only one name is shown on the card. how is the spouse or a child suppose to use it if they need to show id. its not like they issue multiple cards for each member in the qualifying family. pretty soon we are going to need an id for everything.
I agree that changes need to be made, but I’m not so sure that this is the way to do it.
There are many legitimate reasons for you to use someone’s card (running errands for the elderly, disabled or ill or only one card is issued per household so sending your spouse if the card is in your name are just a few).
Again, I think that there has to be some other way to ensure that fraud is stopped or at lessened, but I just don’t think this is it.
If you have a Debit or Visa Card , and your name is on the card, how many places ask you for a picture ID?
If it is not signed you must show ID
not really. most places you slide your own card thru the machine and the cashier never sees the back of it. walmart, shaws, hannaford. alot of them have self serve registers now too, you scan your own stuff and slide your card.
True, I hadn’t thought of that part of it. I should have said that you are SUPPOSED to show ID if not signed :-(
I was asked twice last week. Once at Hannaford and once at Walmart and mine is signed. I didn’t mind, if they hadn’t asked and it had been stolen, then I would have minded!
Showing an ID is not going to cut fraud, this contradicts the fact that “for your own security you must put a PIN number on your card” it is like a debit card, your PIN is like your signature, if someone else knows your PIN to any Debit, or EBT card, that becomes your problem. It is tax dollars yes but their benefits, you want to drain it by other means, go for it.
People who trade cards for cash or drugs are given the pin number by the person trading the card.
Time to find a better system, plastic cards were a big hit and a big sale on cutting down on the paper form being traded too. Furthermore you have to rely on an employee to ask for ID, you won’t believe the number of times I seen people use credit cards and even when the register prompts the clerk to ask for ID, they never do. Clerks not asking for IDs on people who appear to be under 30, 40, 50 years old buying alcohol and tobacco products.
So implementing this “ask for your ID” is absurd. If nobody enforces it much on minors or people appearing to be under 40, unless they plan on putting a DHHS worker in every store to ask people for the IDs because stores can’t this is just another waste of time
Why don’t these contemptuous republican members of the master race quit screwing around and require food stamp recipients to wear armbands with a large P for Parasite on it, on pain of incarceration?
Leave it to the liberal to make the Nazi allusion. Its so typical.
Show me zee papers!
Maybe we can put them on a webste
Why is everyone so worked up about showing an ID?? I have to show a photo ID when my debit card isn’t signed. I have to show an ID when I write a check. Why in the heck should they not have to show a photo ID to use tax payer money to feed their families. How is that trampling their rights NOW! I am so sick of listening to you all go on and on about civil liberties and the poor. How about the working people that are paying for this welfare. How about my civil rights? I am asking that someone see a picture of the person using the ebt card. It would not cost the state one dime!!!!!!
PS write SEE PHOTO ID on your DCard. That way someone can’t steal your card, sign your name in their handwriting and pass it off to be used. : )
Will do :-)
I’ve been doing that for 20 years now. Works great….
and the working people paying people in Augusta for things that need to be better accomplished, if I see a lawmaker or Paul LePage how will it go if I say “I don’t think you are who you are and because my tax dollars pay you, I want to see your ID, just to make sure you are not ripping off someone elses image or plan to use that image to gain things you shouldn’t” Pretty soon it will be a great idea to ask for ID when you need to use a restroom
Sounds like a good idea, therefore the liberals will hate it since “there is little fraud,” or “how many jobs will this create.”
If people are receiving taxpayer money, why can’t the taxpayers at least be able to know WHO is showing up in the store to spend taxpayer money? If this helps reduce fraud, do it.
It’s about time!!!! Photos should be right on the card, and grocers should be mandated to check them. This would put a major cog in the wheel of those “50 cent on the dollar” fraudsters.
I hope this passes!
wow the state is so slow to do something smart i almost wonder if they are scared to do something right to stop fraud.. or are they afraid there family members and co workers will get into trouble
If you require assistance from the tax payers of Maine, you will need a picture ID.
It’s only common sense!
Using my own money, I must have a picture ID when I check in to a hotel, board an airplane or rent a car.
This should be called an” assault on the working class in keeping with Ms. Craven’s ideology.
Shouldn’t it!
And when you can use SNAP to rent a hotel room, book a flight or rent a car then you would have to show ID but you can’t do that so showing ID is moot.
I work part time as a cashier and I know first hand what a cluster it would be to ask for ID with every Food Stamp purchase.
Folks are trading these cards for cash ,which they can then use blow on whatever they want, and other things like drugs and booze. Asking for an ID would eliminate the use of these cards by any but the one it was issued to.
You are a part time Cashier,then you also would know about the fraud going on with these cards, not to mention the irresponsible items these cards are used to purchase, funny how you left those things out.
cluster? how about ID for alcohol, cigs. or an elderly lady who takes 10 minutes to write a check . or a person with three kids and a shopping cart full these all take time.this is part of your job.you check ID to make sure a person is legally able to buy a product same thing here.also i have been a cashier in the past so i know. some people are in and out of line fast some are not.
I worked once for a large retail chain that required us at the time to see a photo ID such as a driver’s license and put the number on ALL checks even if written for $1.00.
No ID, no check accepted. I did have a couple of people go ballistic. However, it was made plain to me I could lose my job for violating the policy. I just directed them to the regional manager… The same manager who explained the policy to us in a meeting.
No different than having to show an ID to cash a check.
Because checkbooks are a lot easier to cash, an EBT card you had to give someone your PIN, that violates the piece of paper one signed when they received benefits, besides the state will even say you can be required to produce receipts to verify you are using the benefits. If you trade the card for booze to some stranger or someone you don’t know all that well do you think you are going to trust you will get receipts back?
You buy the food keep the receipts, and sell the food at half cost, are the food police going to come their homes and check the receipts against what they have on the shelves and fridge.
I open a business, hire some people, heck let’s make it a grocery store. I pay the employees with the money I make. They go to another store, buy some food, then resell it at half the cost, can I go knock down their doors and demand that they cease reselling food and call it fraud because my money bought that food? No, it just became their property, if they rightfully own it, they can do whatever they want.
So if there are 10 people in line to buy beer, you do not ask for an ID, how about cigs?
It depends on the people in line. If they are obviously old enough then no I don’t card them because I am looking for legal age not whether they qualify for alcohol or cigarettes. For example I don’t ID someone in their 30’s for cigerettes or someone in their 60’s for beer.
If I have to ID for SNAP benefits then everyone from 18 to 85 is going to have to show an ID, which will give people like you one more thing to complain about..
You show ID to get the services when you sign up, you sign a paper that says you agree to not commit fraud or else.
What if you send your spouse to the store to grab something that requires the EBT card? Oh no your own spouse can’t even get a loaf of bread now because some willy whack in Augusta wants to be on LePages good side by creating something that contains the words “prevent fraud” in the bill
you have to show id for many things why not to use your ebt card maybe have a space on the back with house hold members names s o they can also use it but require them to show id as well
One way to reduce EBT fraud would be to reduce the allure of being allowed to buy practically anything in the store with it. There should be a restricted list of staple foods, milk, bread, flour, maybe 50 or 100 items, like WIC, for which EBT could be used. Much easier to have a list of allowed healthy foods and NO bottled water or soft drinks.
bottled water is a necessity for many people. not everyone who buys a case of bottled water on EBT is doing it for the refund.
Very true. I cannot drink or use my homes water supply right now. I cannot afford to make the investment at this time of the year to replace it(may not have the money for a while) and I have no other choice other than to buy bottled water. Even with my stomach issues, well and tap water upsets my stomach to no end. I will be going on all types of assistance shortly(physically disabled) and am going to feel like a shmuck buying bottled water then for sure. Enough of the ‘evil eye’ for most anyone using government help as it is.
But do you own a picture ID, or would you be put out to go to the DMV to get one?
I wonder if the DMV will come up to my area for more than once a month to deal with the increase. As it is, if you get to the Mobile office after 9:30AM, you do not get to see anyone until after noon time, if you are lucky. This can be just another imposition for some, a near impossibility for others.
I lived in a house for two years where I couldn’t drink the water. I saved gallon milk jugs and a couple of times a week I went to my inlaws, the town public water source or a nearby church to fill up my water jugs.
That is a bad way of getting cash, what a waste $50 worth of water maybe $10 in returns, I do not call this fraud, I call it stupid, they are allowed to buy the water, how do you make them drink it.
Its been suggested. The same people that say it is wrong to ask EBT card users for ID are the same people who will cry against setting limits of what that EBT card can be used for. Somehow thoughts like yours(which I agree with) are considered by some to be unfair, mean-spirited, bogoted and a sign that you are a 1% facist pig. I dont get it myself.
They are passing laws that tell you how you have to order your meat cooked, but you can not make sure they use the cards for food. North carolina has passed a law all meat has to be cooked well done, I was in Apple Bee’s the other day I said med on my hamburger, the waiter said med-well, I said no med, I can not do that anymore, and this was Bangor Maine not No. Carolina. Why does someone have the right to tell me how I have to cook my meat, talk about facist.
Im a professional chef and can tell you why. AppleBees and many other restaurants dont want to get sued if you get sick from E. Coli that was present in an undercooked Hamburger. E. Coli is present on nearly every beef carcass. When the cow is broken into primals, sub primals and then various cuts the E. Coli still remains more or less on the outside surfaces of the meat. When the meat gets ground for hamburg it is all mixed and then the E. Coli is present througout the product and thus can only be killed through cooking a burger over 140 degrees at least. Most of us can consume E. Coli strains and not get violently ill, some of us cannot or at times there are extremely virulent strains that sicken people more than typically. AppleBees is concerned about Liability.
The individual’s picture on the card ala driver’s license would be fine.
But it’s how the bill gets worded — if you need id for a gallon of milk the purpose is clearly to harass. If it is on purchases over $50 or $75 (individual’s get about $200 a month) than it might make sense. But it might also force, or encourage, those who have cash benefits credited to card decide to have state send them checks — in which case, the purpose of bill is to further increase state costs and harm the budget to no benefit.
$200 is for a single person I think.
The average recipient receives $130, says so in the article if you read it.
Directly from the article.. ”
Alysia Melnick of the ACLU of Maine said the bill would do little to reduce what already is a very low rate of fraud in Maine but would violate privacy rights and stigmatize users.”
I think that should end the debate, don’t you?
how would it violate anyone privacy rights????? Showing a driver’s license?
I was pointing out that is says specifically there is a very low incidence of fraud in Maine. If they know the system is already working with the PIN numbers etc., why then would legislation be necessary? MOST people are not going to abuse the system.
Most people in Maine (at least in the areas I have lived) would rather work than be “on the state”. More time and effort should be spent on job training, and bringing appropriate industry to the state. I saw much more abuse of ‘the system’ when I was living in the south than happens here in Maine.
Or a state ID card
Yes, we should let the ACLU dictate all of our legislation, that would work out.
We should listen to the ACLU when they wave a flag regarding all our personal liberties.
I agree with the ACLU that this does stigmatize and single out needy people.
The argument that these ME people are taking other peoples money and should have to do things like show picture ID or take drug tests isn’t good enough. These things are intended to stigmatize and I am certain to keep proud by needy people from getting help they need.
The tea drinking repugs let ALEC write all their legislation. That’s OK though huh?
I don’t see the ACLU demanding that stores stop asking me for a photo ID when I use a credit card. Or write a check. Or get on a plane. Or buy liquor. Get a job. Get a loan. At some banks, even to deposit or withdraw money.
(This list could go on a long time.)
This nonsense reminds me of another Tea Party favorite, trying to end same-day voter registration. This is another “problem” in search of a dumb solution.
I wonder who manufactures these little plastic cards that the GOP really, really, really wants to put in everybody’s wallet. Follow the money … (cue Pink Panther music)
Definiton of Fascism:
(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any ideology or movement inspired by
Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist
ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is
fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
So how can Obama be a fascist and a socialist/communist?
That is the trouble with labels. The Nazis were socialists in many ways and so people try to link american socialsim to nazism. That doesnt work really well. However I believe that Obama is a liberal socialist that is oppossed to democracy in many ways.
Like? Requiring an ID to vote?
The last time I went to vote I was greeted as a person who was not me by the election clerk as she handed me the ballot. I have voted in the town or by absentee ballot my whole life and it is not a big town. That story is a long one that you may or may not want to hear about.
Im not oppossed to showing an ID to vote.
The Nazi’s were very conservative. You would have known this if you fact checked before commenting.
Yes they were conservative but was it a way that was really that different from most people of that time? Were they any more conservative than the average Englishmen or the average American Citizen? What were the average Germans ideas about homosexuality, race segregation, or the ideas of duty to your family, neighbors and country? Did they really differ much from American viewpoints in that same time of history? Wasnt our Greatest Generation bound by a sense of duty, honor, respect, dedication and sacrifice much the same way that people of the same age in Germany were bound by them? Of course the Nazi ideas that the Germans were bound to were misguided and horrible and yet the Germans still bound to them much in the same way that Americans of the same age were bound to thier ideals. Maybe it was a much more conservative time overall throughout the world?
What about single mothers having children? Not so accepted in America but part of state policy in Germany to increase the master race.
One thing is for sure, they overall where much more anti-social than other groups of people throughout the world at that time.
And yes they were socialists in others, such as work programs, using the government as a means to create employment in Germany. Undertaking huge public work projects in order to provide employment while also improving infrastructure. In some ways it appears Hitler had his own verison of the New Deal.
Did I do enough research for you or am I still missing something?
The New Deal was the beginning of our decline!
Id say hes a fascist wannabe dictator on the model of Mugabe in Mozambique.
Or Chavez in Venezuela or Morales in Bolivia.
Hey, you need one for a license. Why not for EBT cards?
http://ebtcardbalance.com/
Ohh the stigma. The horror! There are so many people in 2012 that have not type of ID at all! What about making them feel bad?
Some of the arguements that people will post here, none of which I think hold water?
Way to destroy any remaining dignity these people have.
these people have no dignity, most feel entitled to the benefits they receive.
I kept re-reading your post Monk; hoping to see some trace of sarcasm, irony, or humor of any kind. Sadly, it could not be found.
“Those people” as you so delightfully called them, who have for some reason that you care not to understand, have had to ask for help in these tough times. (And it has been tough times in Maine now for about 30 yrs) have plenty of dignity. It came from years of working any job they could find to get by; sometimes two or three. It came from paying into the system their entire working life. It came from being an integral part of their community and spending their dollars locally so that others could prosper. Dignity is not the problem.
And yes, they do feel entitled, because they are. When you work and pay your taxes some of those dollars are used to pay for our social safety nets, whether the GOP likes it or not. When a person loses their job, becomes ill or injured and cannot work, or like most people who receive food-stamps simply work for slave wages that do not begin to cover the cost of living, they are ENTITLED to apply for assistance. They PAID for it!
I am not saying that there are not some who take advantage of the system. There are always those who will do so. (The fine banker class in our country is a perfect example.) But for the GOP to consistently throw up obstacles in front of the poor, it would seem just to make an already difficult situation more so, while trying to justify such actions as necessary to combat fraud (which time and again has been shown to be not nearly the problem that they say it is) is disingenuous at best and small and mean spirited at its worst.
I would like to thank Rep. Jeff McCabe for having the courage to stand up for those who haven’t the political nor financial power to stand up for themselves. I have several friends who are disabled and/or elderly. They each have several people who do their shopping for them, using their ‘food stamps’ card. The logistics of matching each of those people’s ID to the recipient’s name/card would be a nightmare. And what happens when none of those people are available and Grandma has to ask someone else to shop for her? Will she have to call Augusta to ask for permission, will the store clerk have to call her to verify that person’s identity? Or will she just have to go hungry until someone else is available?
It never ceases to amaze and sadden me how many people just simply do not understand what it is to be poor. I can tell you from experience that being poor is the hardest thing any of us will ever do. It is stressful, frightening and demeaning. (Well, it wouldn’t be so demeaning if it weren’t for people like you Monk.) When a government loses it’s compassion that is a situation bad enough. It is compounded by convincing the very people they despise and use that hating others and blaming “those people” for all of the the problems is the answer. History teaches us this is the road to ruin.
Excuse me, i’ll rephrase my statement,
Most of the next generation feels entitled to these programs even though many of them have NEVER paid in.
The “immigrant population” certainly never paid into the system but expect these handouts.
The younger generation (18-30) something expect the handouts and expect the safety nets to be there so when they make bad decisions they don’t have to live with the consequences of those actions.
This is why we see welfare fraud, this is why we see single 22 year old women with 4 kids living off the system. This is why we see immigrants that are on the system with 6 to 10 kids each.
Are you really that blind to what has been happening the last 20 years or so?
Very well said.
worked from pay check to pay check before, IE pretty poor 2 kids, wife, we seem to get by, and not on food stamps, I do understand that cost have gone up. However there are far too many people like my son that has the means to work that does not(welder), been on food stamps, was homless, I met lots of his homeless buddies as well, all able to work, now he is applying himself at occupy D.C., what did her learn while he was homless how to screw the system, there is TANIF, Food Stamps, GA, ect… and he learned how to use every one. Its was only like $5 to get a state ID so he could buy beer, he managed to attain one. u need an ID to buy a bus ticket unless you pay cash, that I do not get? Maybe a plain POA(Power of Attorney ) for the EBT card will work to buy food for the home bound., you need on for the medical things so why not their EBT cards. Far too many folks could be taken off the system. Maybe a time limit, make them learn a trade, put some hours in if they are able to work.
The Republic of Argentina, which is a Socialist Country, requires your National Documentation Documetn(DNI) to be shown when you use thier version of the EBT. Shocking!!!!!!!!!!
They make people pay for the DNI. It costs 40 pesos. If you are poor they charge you 5 pesos but everyone has to pay at least something. EVERYONE HAS ONE. The citizens seem to manage just fine with the requirements.
Of course anything like this in Maine would be an absolute sign that the world would be coming to the end.
Argentina is a constitutional republic and representative democracy. It is regulated by a system of checks and balances defined by a constitution.
Page 1000 on the health care law will fix this, with the micro chip everyone is required to get.
No such rule exists. Nice try but you really need to stop listening to Limbaugh, O’ Reilly, Fos News and their like
I work in a grocery store, and have personally witnessed just about every form of foodstamp fraud there is. Having someone hand me a photo ID with their EBT card will only allow me to see who the card belongs to. It will not allow me to stop them from using their food balance to buy a Snickers bar and a Red Bull, or even live lobster. It will not allow me to stop them from using their cash balance on the card to buy beer and cigarettes either. A photo ID will not tell me you lied to the state, and you live with your boyfriend who has a nice cash job making more money than I do every year, and you drive to the store to use your EBT card in a brand new SUV. If any politician honestly cared about stopping welfare fraud, perhaps some consultation with the retail food industry would give them a better idea where to start, since thats where most of the fraud actually takes place (dumping bottled water, for instance). As someone who has used the EBT system to buy real food for my family I can honestly say I prefer the WIC system. Show your ID, and you can buy exactly whats on the check.
Hrmm, another level of bureaucratic requirements; more state jobs !
I’m almost in favor of this bill–it would have a delightful unintended consequence: It would ensure that people who are impoverished, disabled, and elderly will have photo IDs in hand by the next election!
Republican leaders are really counting on reducing the number of potential Democratic voters by using a requirement of photo IDs to vote. If the food stamp ID bill passes, it would probably increase the Democratic lead.
On a very sad note, though, the food stamp ID bill would make it harder for people who are elderly and/or disabled and depend on others to shop for them, to buy food. But that’s not the sort of thing that ever stopped a Republican bent on making life harder for impoverished people in general.
Ramen noodles 24/7…365 days ..tear down the methadone clinics…
I have always thought you had to show ID. When I use my credit or debit card sometimes the clerk ask to see ID.
Why wouldnt they ask for ID when it comes to the welfare cards? I cant imagine nobody has put this in to action back whent they came out with the cost saving Cards.
WOW!!!
Having to show a card doesn’t bother food stamp beneficiaries? Oh, then never mind.
Your argument is illogical.
My point is, when I use my money and need an ID, someone else who spends my money should as well.
Lets see, you need a drug test to get most jobs. Liberals are all up in arms about drug tests for welfare recipients.
You need two forms of ID to get a job ( for the I-9 form), liberals have their collective panties in a wad over showing an ID to use an EBT or SNAP card (just like any responsible person needs to with a credit card)
Why is it the bleeding hearts in this country want to elevate the most non-productive among us to near royalty status? Steal money from the productive members of society and give it for an unlimited amount of time the most non-productive in our society, give them FREE housing with FREE heat and FREE lights, FREE cell phones, FREE cable TV and lets not forget, totally FREE healthcare.
WTH!!
I work right in the trenches and see fraud and abuse every day, the sense of entitlement from the welfare rats is sickening, twenty somethings that keep pumping out new offspring for me to pay for while they ride their 4-wheelers and snowsleds. Totally ruin the FREE housing they recieve and demand new flooring, appliances, kitchen remodel, ect. (and no, there is nothing wrong with what they have, it’s just not brand new.)
There needs to be a stigma involved in recieving welfare, maybe if there was it wouldn’t appeal to so many as a lifestyle.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes!! Well said!! I had forgotten about needing a photo id to get a job! That makes their arguement even more ridiculous!!! Love this post!
Technically, you dont need a photo ID to get a job. There is a list of documents that is divided into three catergories and you must present two of them, one from any category to provide proof for the 1-9 form.
That being said—You need an ID to drive, to cash a check or to open a bank account. The idea that an ID is too hard to get or that there is a large part of the population without one is something I find hard to believe. I dont think there are high percentages of adults in Maine without a bank account. I dont think there are high perecentages of people that cash checks somehow without ID.
Do you think it would be possible to make your point without name calling and hysterics? Might make you more believable.
It is because if you follow their system to get America to become a socialist country, the 1st step is to over whelm the system. Its the bottom up(Occupy Wall street), top down (Health Care Law),= insideout which is on the way, and will be here if obama gets 4 more years. Samual Jackson said it best “I hope when he get elected again in Nov he gets Scary”
ok, so I work in a grocery store. Here’s my take on fixing food stsmp, TANF fraud. When a person comes into our supermarket(major chain, by the way), with a general assistance form(these are forms from a city or town for a one time, several time use for the very destitute, people who cannot for some reason get food stamps and TANF), there are only a few select items they can get. We are trained on what to accept and let me tell you, it is the very basics. Soap, laundry detergent. No alcohol. No candy. No chips, no soda. No cigarettes. You want food? You get the generic brand and that’s it. So why not start there? Makes sense to me.
Will not work, they can still sell the items at half price to someone else.
And ID for Food Stamps would not stop this type of fraud, would it?
Oh no!!! Show an ID? How demeaning and
traumatic. And they even want people to show
one to vote? I’ll bet when someone goes and purchases
and ipod or flat screen tv and is asked to show an id,
they pull it out in a flash.
Do not leave out the beer on that list
Who is paying for all the changes??? I don’t know but if you are welfare 100% you should not be aloud earn income credits. It should be given to the state to help pay for your monthly beneifits..
Why are hth dems saying this is an assault on the poor? This only safeguards their funding and disperses fraudulent use of the cards. If they are turly using teh cards for the intended use, then they should be happy to present a photo ID. If it were known how many of those cards are sold for 1/2 their value or less it would be devestating I am thinking.
This I can Support, Just don’t mess with my Voting.
This is foolish and misguided.
“Alysia Melnick of the ACLU of Maine said the bill would do little to reduce what already is a very low rate of fraud in Maine but would violate privacy rights and stigmatize users.”
Why is it always about the rights of the participants and never about the rights of the taxpayers who foot the bill. Everyone in ths day and age has some form of photo ID, as there is very little that you can do without one. They are not difficult to obtain and if need be, just chnage the current card so that the picture can be added to it. If they can print the current picture on it then they can clearly add an individuals photograph.
“low rate of fraud”
LOL!!!!
just look no further than lewiston if you want to see rampant fraud!
This is a prime example of the republican/ tea party war on the poor and working class. Class warfare is real and now you can see who’s responsible. Blame the poor, blame the sick, blame the unemployed, blame the injured workers, it just goes on and on and will untill we vote all these heartless greedy, self-serving politicians out!
The discussion here was going great and logical until the liberal came out of the bushes.
What’s wrong with this as policy? I have to show identification to cash a check, and occasionally when I use my credit card.
I think that the picture of the recipient should be ON the food stamp card…. as it is on the driver’s license.
Yes Yes Yes, It’s about time.
Senator Craven, Assault on the Poor? DHS is in the mess that they are because of some of these poor people who fraud the system. Showing I.D shouldn’t be a problem as Ricko4429 stated, if you have nothing to hide it shouldn’t be a problem.
Actually the “poor people fraud” pales in comparison to the health care provider fraud like Nutting’s pharmacy which charged for items they failed to sell, and overcharged the system for those items they did sell.
I have progressive views on some things and I totally support requiring photo ID. Don’t clump everyone into one pile. It’s no so black and white.
Wouldn’t that be hard if there were more than one adult on the case or an authorized user?
They put one adult’s name on the card – yet there could be more than one adult authorized to use the card. For example, a two parent household, they only list the main name the case is under. They can also authorize another adult to use it for them (medical problems, etc) but their name would be on the card. This also draws attention to the people using the cards and holds up the line. I can understand there is a problem though with the drug addicts exchanging cards.
WoW drug tests, photo ID, I am so glad the fool that is called a Govna has all this money to throw down the sewer. Where are all the jobs you lied about Govna ????????? People wouldn’t need food stamps if there were good paying jobs in Maine. Even any new jobs at this stage.
So you think that drug users and possible frauds should be able to receive the benefits that our tax dollars pay for?
With that kind of thinking, could you wire me some money? I mean, it’s free right?
And about the jobs…
you can thank our traitorous previous administrations for our current economic position.
Bush sr. and Clinton with NAFTA, GATT, WTO.
Signing our futures away to china and the other asia countries for a quick buck. All of our production went overseas and now we have nothing but retail and “service sector”.
Then we have those who work for the government, and those who receive from the government.
Why do you stop at Bush? Obama is still borrowing money from China and giving them the leverage they need to set policy for us.
bush Sr.
bush Jr did just as bad, signing away our freedoms instead of our jobs.
obama has marvelously combined taking freedoms and sending jobs away.
LePage could burn $10 bills all day long and not even APPROACH the waste perpetrated on the taxpayers by the failed Baldacci administration. The $80 million flushed down the toilet by the Maincare computer billing fiasco that bought us absolutely nothing for example. Or Dale MCCormick’s $1 million green energy scam (We would have actually been better off if we’d have burned the money in that instance as we’d have received SOME energy from the it). At least we’ll get something useful from this proposal.
Or the stupid unnecessary replacement of the Verona Island bridge. The laptop computer give-a-way to students who have parents perfectly able to pay for those computers themselves.
You are right… lots of waste in State government.
No, you won’t get anything useful from this proposal. It will cost the state just as much as it does now. All this is is an attempt to stigmatize recipients of Food Stamps.
Maybe you should ask the president the same question, he has had a 2 year head start on the hope and change thing, and about 1 trillion spent for those shovel ready jobs. guess he has to wade through all the red tape 1st.
A quick google search reveals that (possibly) all plastic cards and plastic magnetic swipe cards are manufactured in China and India. I’m just trying to determine who stands to gain from all of this attempted ID legislation.
you need to show an ID to buy alcohol , people don’t have a problem with that
as a person who has earned the right to not be carded for alcohol now at my age (let’s just say too many years over 21) i do have a problem with that
You only show ID to prove you are old enough to responsibly consume alchohol not to prove it is really you. A big difference from what is being proposed in regards to the SNAP Program.
“Show us your papers, Comrade!”
the ebt card should have a photo just like my Sam’s club card.
“As of last September, nearly 250,000 Mainers received an average of $130 in food stamp benefits every month.” mmmm, thats $32.5 MILLION A MONTH X12- $390 MILLION A YEAR. Totally out of control.
No, not even close to out of control. An average of $130 dollars a month, I spend that much on food in about a week and a half and I am single. I can only imagine the food bill for a family of 4.
Secondly, for every $1 spent on Food Stamps, $1.73 is generated in the economy. Money that would not be spent to provide jobs and income if it were not for the SNAP program.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/29/news/economy/stimulus_analysis/index.htm
This is the kind of stuff the republican party wants to spend money on.
But when it comes to money to stimulate job growth – like infrastructure projects- they say:
“no, no, no, no, no”
Much better to spend money on ID cards.
Typical hypocrisy.
So we want people to be required to show an ID when using a food card, but we think it’s wrong to have people show an ID when they vote?? What if the people with the food card don’t have an ID??
“What if the people with the food card don’t have an ID??” Um.. How about if they take the smallest bit of personal responsibility and go get an ID. They only have to do it one time.
Old people in a nursing home without a car, soon we will see the re-vote on the woupie as the ingredients may be incorrect when it does not have any woup in then according to Adrienne Bennett latest research done from her home:)
I agree! But I think we should expand security and decrease fraud (real or imagined) and require people to show an ID when they vote!!!
Two things…
How do we decrease fraud, even the imaginary type?
And two, the people of Maine have already spoken against Voter ID, so give it a rest!
My point is that people should be consistent rather thn pick and choose what laws should be enforced.
Man does the shoe fit on this one. Like the fit there dems.
ABOUT TIME!!! A step in the right direction to deter fraud.
Kindly give us just ONE example of successful prosecution of food stamp fraud.
Or even an example of ONE documented case of food stamp fraud.
Just ONE.
Ask, and ye shall receive.
These are all separate prosecutions and convictions.
*************
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city/2012/02/12/faces-fraud/1153817
Recently Prosecuted and Pending Welfare Fraud Cases in Maine
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2011/05/10/news/former-lewiston-woman-pleads-no-contest-to-welfare-fraud-forgery/
Lewiston Woman Pleads No Contest to Welfare/Benefits Fraud in Maine
http://www.pressherald.com/news/DHHS-catching-more-welfare-fraud.html
2011 Maine Grand Juries Return 12 Indictments for Welfare Fraud in Maine
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2011/10/17/news/portland/antiguan-pleads-guilty-to-falsely-claiming-u-s-citizenship-getting-fed-benefits/
$120K in illegal benefits in Maine
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Brunswick-woman-sentenced-for-food-stamp-fraud-.html
$60K in illegal benefits in Maine
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city/2012/01/05/five-indicted-welfare-fraud-schemes/1136287
Five Maine Residents Engaging in EBT Card Fraud Scheme
http://www.sunjournal.com/city/story/821667
Mechanic Falls Couple – $10K+ Welfare/Food Stamps Fraud
http://www.pressherald.com/news/feds-target-small-stores-in-inquiry-into-food-stamp-fraud_2011-11-20.html
Feds Target Small Stores Engaging in Food Stamp/EBT Fraud
http://www.maine.gov/tools/whatsnew/index.php?topic=AGOffice_Press&id=242340&v=article10
$4 million in medical provider fraud in Maine
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Kittery-business-pleads-guilty-to-health-care-fraud.html
$220K Health care fraud in Maine.
http://www.sunjournal.com/city/story/878892
$90K in Medicaid fraud in Maine
http://www.sunjournal.com/city/story/958853
$220K MaineCare fraud in Maine
http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2011/05/03/maine_man_convicted_in_dirigo_case/
$100K Dirigo Health fraud conviction in Maine
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2011/09/13/news/court/old-town-woman-pleads-guilty-to-methadone-clinic-mileage-scam/
$10K Methadone Clinic Mileage Scam
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Westbrook-woman-pleads-guilty-to-.html
Fake Immigration Papers and Federal/state Benefits Guilty Plea
**********************
There’s plenty more on the web.
http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/lepage-double-number-dhhs-fraud-investigators
Here’s just one of the threads on AMG, tracking numerous welfare fraud cases.
That’s a nice list.
Looks like you spent all afternoon.
My query though, was specifically for FOOD STAMPS.
Better try again…….
The list is easy to produce, because AMG has threads going back years. You will find plenty of food stamp fraud convictions on the stories I posted, above.
Nice try at deflection, however.
Welfare, medical and food stamp fraud exists in Maine, and the court cases above prove the point.
How about people who go get groceries for home bound recipients ? I suppose the could bring an ID from the recipient , the problem with that is if they stole the EBT card they could of stole the ID also. I see a problem with that issue ! It will just make the people trading them for drugs do the grocery shopping for the drug dealer, there is always a way around the system !
“Although food stamp fraud is rare in Maine…”
That is a joke. Fraud is almost universal from what I’ve seen, at least among younger recipients. Of the few dozen “young adults” I know who get stamps, they buy a few buck of gas-station junk food and Red Bull right off, then sell the rest for cash at 50 cents on dollar. All gone within a few hours.
Please don’t “demonize” people in need, give them respect.
It isn’t a bad idea. Fraud costs money – money that comes from the taxpayers.
I’m a Democrat, I don’t think having to show a valid ID is too much to ask. It is not an assault on poor people, it’s a way to stop fraud. Period.
Wish it would stop but it will not, they go in use their card with photo ID, with a list of what to buy, then come and get half of what they bought in cash.
I’d like to see proof of birth control on that card too.
Since you would be mandating birth control, maybe even for some Catholics, then you must either want the government to provide free contraception (since they would be mandating birth control) or making the Catholic Church provide healthcare coverage for contraception since people with SNAP are below 185% of the poverty level and don’t have alot of extra money to spend.
Although I really don’t like forcing people
into stuff it sure would be cheaper providing
birth control then paying for welfare and all
that implies.
How about: NO candy purchased with SNAP, NO soft drinks purchased with SNAP, NO candy bar cereal purchased with SNAP? The other day I watched a guy unload his cart that had all of these junk foods in it and more…paid for by SNAP.
And if he had loaded his cart with organic foods that cost more than the normal food, you would be complaining that he was eating better then you, someone who has to work for their money.
Face it, unless people using SNAP benefits eat government cheese and day old bread you are going to complain about what they buy with ‘your’ money.
ahh…the reality of misinterpretation of one’s opinion. nowhere did i suggest folks should not receive SNAP benefits – if and when I needed them in my life, I would be grateful for that safety net. however, we have allowed unfettered access to this benefit and not always in a positive way. to use the comparison of organic food is frankly uninformed as most junk food (candy, cookies, chips) is more expensive on a unit cost basis than organic. and so in response to your misinformed accusation to me – no, i would not complain were a SNAP user buying a few organic products versus a 2 lb. bag of Reece’s pieces…
Golly. Does that mean requiring ID for cashing a check, buying a house, or opening a bank account is DEMONIZING the applicants??
Horrors.
Let’s keep blaming the poor for all of Maine’s woes. They are easy scapegoats.
How is making a person show ID going to cut down on fraud?
There are posters stating that people are buying food and then selling it for 50 cents on the dollar. How will having to show an ID stop that? And if they are giving the ebt card to the dealer, then they can just buy the require amount of food and give it to the dealer.
It won’t but it will serve the actual purpose of trying to humiliate the SNAP user, especially to ones who do not want to be using SNap but have to to survive.