A national report released Wednesday asks the question, “Is high school tough enough?” Education experts in Maine said the state is far ahead of others in certain areas and continuing to make progress but that overall the answer is “no.”
Wednesday’s report by the National School Board Association’s Center for Public Education draws a direct link between programs for high-achieving students — such as Advanced Placement courses and early or dual enrollment in college for high school students — and success in higher education.
“It’s been clear for some time that 21st century jobs will require a higher level of skills than we’ve traditionally been providing for our students,” said Patte Barth, director of the Center for Public Education, during a telephone conference call on Wednesday. “Our policymakers and school leaders have been looking at ways to strengthen curriculums. But we have kids in high school now and we have to do something for them.”
Among the findings of the report: Nationwide, approximately one-third of university students and 42 percent of two-year college students need remedial courses to make up for what they missed or weren’t provided in high school. Aside from college-level training, the report cited a dearth of high-level math courses in some 3,000 high schools as a major barrier to postsecondary success.
“Without access to even Algebra II, these new graduates really don’t have much of a chance, and it’s not just about college,” said Barth. “Without Algebra II you don’t even become an auto mechanic.”
The report calls for more rigor in high school programs, which it defines as an education program that challenges and stimulates students to develop critical thinking skills. In terms of a high school diploma, rigor means a student has taken a certain number of courses to graduate, including four years of English and math, 2.5 science classes, two years each of foreign language and social studies and at least one Advanced Placement course.
According to educators in Maine, including Don Siviski, superintendent of instruction for the Maine Department of Education, Advanced Placement courses have been prevalent and spreading in the state for years and a task force set up by Gov. Paul LePage is working on spreading early college opportunities.
But Siviski, who was an education administrator long before he joined the Department of Education, said the report raises some more basic questions, such as “What is rigor in a high school program?” and “What is a high school diploma?”
A major problem in Maine, according to Siviski, is equity when it comes to programs offered at high schools.
“Some high schools are not looking at providing students a sequence of rigor. They’re looking at a sequence of seat time and too many of them don’t have a rigorous expectation for a diploma,” said Siviski. “That may be the first hurdle that we have to address.”
To that end, the Department of Education has proposed a bill to the Legislature, LD 1422, “An Act to Prepare Maine People for the Future Economy.” The wide-ranging bill, which is under consideration by the Legislature’s Education and Cultural Affairs Committee, would, among other things, require high schools to award diplomas based on common standards by 2015. In other words, every high school graduate would receive a diploma based on the same accomplishments. It’s a similar concept to Maine’s Learning Results system, which has been in place for several years but has yet to accomplish its goal.
“The difference now is that we have the technology to make it happen,” said Siviski.
He also said the state, under the leadership of Education Commissioner Steve Bowen, is working to tailor education curricula on a student-by-student basis as opposed to trying to pull all students through the same program at the same time. The goal is to educate students for real-world applications, not to pass a test.
“What has been the case so far is a very passive approach where the kid receives information from the teacher and then we test him on it,” said Siviski. “Now we’re saying kids need to use that information and to work it with other peers in the classroom.”
Roger Shaw, an assistant superintendent in MSAD 42 in Aroostook County’s Mars Hill region, is a member of LePage’s Early College for ME Task Force. He said though the task force won’t have its final recommendations ready for several months, a couple of problems keep coming up when it comes to discussions about connecting high school students with college courses: not enough money and problems regarding how students should be credited for taking the courses. Should they receive high school or college credit, or both?
According to a 2008 study by the Sen. George J. Mitchell Scholarship Research Institute, there is a direct correlation between a high school student’s involvement in early college classes during high school and his or her attending in college. Based on a sample of 690 Maine high school students, the study found that 80 percent of the students who took early college classes enrolled in college within a year of graduation, compared with an overall average of 60 percent.
But according to Scholastic Aptitude Test scores, which are used to measure progress of Maine’s 11th graders, Maine still lags behind national averages. In 2010, according to the College Board, Maine students scored 468 in critical reading, 467 in mathematics and 454 in writing, compared with national averages of 501, 516 and 492, respectively.
Shaw said he’d like to see more widespread availability of advanced and college-level classes for all students, not just those who are college-bound.
He said that on the bright side, there is evidence of progress at many different levels. Maine’s adoption of the national Common Core curriculum will help schools more properly align with one another and a new emphasis on education reform at the state level has many education officials eyeing the same goal.
“I’ve seen [gubernatorial] administrations come and go and it seems that every time we get a new administration we get a new emphasis and a new direction as far as initiatives,” he said. “It’s constantly changing from the top down and it doesn’t do much for education. To Steve Bowen’s credit, he committed early on to be an assistant for schools in the work they’re doing and not to burden schools down with more initiatives that never seem to get off the ground.”
Maureen King, another member of the Early College Task Force who also sits on the Maine School Board Association’s board of directors, said it’s clear that some high schools offer more than others but that the differences don’t necessarily depend on geography or socioeconomics. She said the major focus ought to ensuring that the opportunities are there if students want them.
“One of the things we’re trying to do is to make sure that if students get into high school and they don’t feel like they’re being challenged, that they have a way to challenge themselves,” she said. “It will take a little work but I think we’ll be able to get there.”
According to Barth, just the simple act of taking an Advanced Placement course in the first place doubles a student’s chances of graduating from college, and the numbers are even better for low-income and minority students. There is also evidence that taking college courses and math courses beyond Algebra II during high school leads to vastly higher levels of success for students in college.
But Barth said high schools also need to serve students who may not be college-bound. That’s important in Maine, where in 2010 the high school graduation rate was less than 83 percent, according to data from the Department of Education.
“The movement is to make sure that all students succeed,” said Barth. “A lot of [the study’s recommendations] is developed through what we traditionally thought of as the college prep curriculum, but it is serving many occupations, as well. Many of our high schools are doing a very good job of preparing all their kids, but it is uneven.”
the traditioncollege prep curriculum was a complete waste of time for me. I learned more by doing self study in things that I was interested in at the time. Having parents that encouraged us to read and study everything we could get our hands on definately helped.
I would have hoped that over the last 25 years or so that more emphasis might have been placed on non-traditional courses of study as well. Could someone who is more in tune with todays HS education system comment on this.
I tell you one thing, I wish that I had been a plumber. I know enough to get by but when I have to open the checkbook, I almost cry.
I was talking to one of my daughters the other day. One of her friends is a Psychology major at a UMaine campus. I wanted to tell her friend “good luck with that one. ” I wonder how may people in Maine and nationally have 10’s of thousands of dollars in student debt that they owe but because their skill sets aren’t needed, end up working at DD or Tim’s.
Funny I am an ********* . Passed state license exam with no college on my first try. People with a degree fail at a rate of about %70 . If I had gone to college to learn I would not have had much of a chance at passing. Only through a true interest and self study did I make it. College today is more about making money or waisting it than it is about educating people. Why not just pay someone to take online schooling for you. Focus your study on what is important in your field and just do it. To me its a bit of BS. What is the rentesion rate of what they are taught if they are not truely interested?
The reporter refers to the Scholastic Aptitude Test. The name of the test was changed YEARS ago to the Scholastic Assessment Test.
Now it’s just SAT.
There are some issues not addressed in this article. High schools don’t exist in a vacuum, and have to deal with the skill levels and attitudes of whatever kids they get. Unfortunately, most middle schools seem to be beholden to a general philosophy that downplays academic rigor and accountability in favor of a focus on a fuzzy concept of “community.” Many middle schools provide no consequences for failing classes, and it’s very possible for a kid to master almost nothing from the middle school curriculum and still be promoted to high school. The smartest kids tend to be able to overcome middle school, but the majority of kids come into ninth grade simply unable to do work that would be considered high-school level and are never able to make up the deficit. Another factor working against a rigorous curriculum is parents. While I’m sure most parents would say they’re in favor of a stronger academic program, in reality many (maybe most) complain when their kids struggle with difficult material, or have “too much” homework, or don’t bring home the same kind of grades they did in middle school. When a kid gets their parents on their side against hard academic work they’re probably not going to make much of an effort.
“While I’m sure most parents would say they’re in favor of a stronger academic program, in reality many (maybe most) complain when their kids struggle with difficult material, or have “too much” homework, or don’t bring home the same kind of grades they did in middle school. When a kid gets their parents on their side against hard academic work they’re probably not going to make much of an effort.”
I’m in favor of a stronger academic program in high school, but I believe that algebraic concepts in 2nd grade is more than a bit much to expect of a child with that level of maturity. Also, I remained agog at my child’s spelling list in 2nd grade (which was tied to the reading program). She knew how to spell ‘pharmacist’ and “turquoise” yet she spelled “people’ like “pepole” and “very” with two ‘r’s”
Spanish (to me anyway) is also a collosal waste of time in the elementary years.
Learning another language is vitally important in this day and age. It is always easier when younger–in diapers if possible! Spanish, like it or not, is the second language of the U.S. It may not seem applicable in Maine, but maybe that student will not spend their whole life here. Maybe we should be teaching kids Chinese, given the way the world is going.
Oh, and it is colossal, not collosal. Something one might pick up learning French or Latin. ORIGIN early 18th cent.: from French, from colosse, from Latin colossus (see colossus ).
“but maybe that student will not spend their whole life here.”
Gee, Ya think? Many of the smart, educated young people are leaving the state.
Thanks for the correction on “colossal” deary.
I do believe that children should be exposed to Chinese during early education. Western languages can be learned as a high-school student, or even as an adult. It seems to me that eastern languages are insurmountable to most learners beyond childhood.
Studies show that the younger a child is introduced to a new language, the easier that they can grasp it. Ideally, they should be learning a foreign language starting in the early years. Most schools don’t offer it until high school.
I don’t buy it. My kids have had Spanish since day one. Dora the Explorer has taught them more. They may have mastered their colors by now.
I’d rather see them learn their native language until middle school. Then they can learn a new language. Just because someone says “studies show” and provide glossy data doesn’t mean that it is so. There are plenty of people who have been successful learning new languages at the middle and high school level historically.
As time goes on, we lose the ability to learn new things. In the early years, the rate at which we lose unused neurons is astounding. This is why early intervention programs are so successful for children who are enrolled in time. This is also why learning a new language earlier is best; it keeps that area of the brain functioning when normally it would slowly die off.
Learning a foreign language has been proven to do all kinds of good things for people, like help them speak their own language better. Approx. %40 of English vocab comes from French, so learning French helps kids increase their vocab in English as well. Kids that take world language classes have better oral and written communication skills that those that do not. If you want to talk about SAT’s, there is also a correlation between high verbal scores and experience with a second or third language. Plus, it gives kids a window into another culture, another world. In this day and age, it is so important that they learn that people live differently in different parts of the world, and that they think and speak differently. Language classes teach kids history, culture, English grammar, writing, reading, critical thinking, and they also teach kids to appreciate diversity. EVERY kid should have to take language classes, and as early as possible.
The assumption that English is all you need in this world is narrow minded. Did you know that there are 364 languages spoken in the US? Yes, Spanish is widely spoken here and is useful for many fields, such as social work, medicine, law, etc, but there are a whole lot of other heritage and foreign languages that kids can learn, too. Chinese might be in vogue right now, but it’s not going to prove as useful as people think it is. Yes, companies are outsourcing work to China, and China is a major force in business now, but few business people will actually travel to China or have to speak with Chinese execs. Portugese is going to be a big language for business people soon, as Brazil is becoming a major economy, right behind France. For diplomacy, politics, business, engineering, and other fields, Arabic, French, and German would be good choices. It’s really a shame that schools are so hasty to cut language classes (along with music and art) when trying to save money. They are really doing the kids a disservice and putting them at a disadvantage vis-a-vis the global job market.
I don’t buy for a minute that cramming more language down a younger child’s throat is necessarily going to help them later in life. Learning is far too diverse for that.
In fact, when we are demanding that our children learn algebra and middle school spelling in 2nd grade, we run the very real risk of burning a large number of them to a crisp by the time they’re in high school. I’m good and fed up with the blame game when it comes to learning. I grow tired of teachers being blamed, parents being blamed, and even the students being blamed.
At some point in time we need to realize that not every child can be an engineer, but they could very well contribute something phenomenal to society if we let them.
When it comes to high school – yes, they need more rigorous curriculum, but let’s not forget that maturity and natural consequences play a large part in the ability to learn too.
Children are not mini-adults – they are works in progress. It’s a small wonder to me why so many younger and younger kids have psychiatric med lists as long as their arms (parents who don’t know how to parent aside).
Enough already.
The biggest reason for so many children being on psychiatric medications has little to do with school and a lot more to do with diet…too much sugary substances, no where near enough physical activity and WAY too much over prescribing of medications by the medical field. Oh your child can’t sit still and concentrate…here give them this pill…give me a break.
Yup. I totally agree. Recess is a practical joke now. Why? Because they have to pass the test.
What about the correlation between IQ and SAT scores ? I think that is a lot stronger . I do not think it changes much from a bit harder classes . Why did my other post get flagged ? I like teachers but I see a broken system . Send a kid to college with an IQ of 85 teach them algebra 11 and calculus . let them just pass And I will bet with just algebra 1 I took I will still score higher on the math part of an SAT Maine has lower SAT scores than some states that is because I higher percentage of kids take the test. Bangor high school might send more kids to college but what about the higher drop out rate? Why dose no one want to be honest and hide the facts.
I think it is easier to learn a language at a younger age then when you are older. Start teaching a child two languages at age 2 vs 17 and see which one catches on quicker??
Hey, Hey, Hey, Stop picking on the Kids, you might hurt their feelings.. It’s all about their feelings isn’t it. Lets not keep score OK..
Most high schools seem to be doing a good job in offering the harder classes. It is a real challenge, however, to get students to take them if they can still meet the requirements with “The lyrics of The Rolling Stones” instead of a year of literature or composition. The same holds true for math and the sciences. As to the the lower than national score on the SAT, keep in mind that Maine makes every student in 11th grade take them while nationally that is not done. In other states, only those that want to take the test to go to college take it. It’s like requiring anyone who wants to live in a house be able to build it with what ever tools they already own, be that a hammer and saw or just a rock. Oh yea, let’s cut the funding some more, just to keep it interesting.
Go ahead, try and make it “tougher”. Try and make change. Good luck with that. I will bet it will take more courage then you could ever imagine, and a huge amount of pain…..and then, after all the talk and pain and sweat…..business as usual. Good luck.
I don’t understand why communities are speaking out against school consolidation, which would bring together not only larger groups of students but also pool resources to better serve them. Fewer, larger schools would allow the budgets to keep more advanced programs for gifted students, separate classes for special needs students, and round out with better electives. Instead there are parents petitioning to keep their kids in small, underfunded schools that don’t even have enough students to justify a teacher for each grade, let alone decent libraries, elective programs and strong curriculums. Is this because those parents are afraid their kids will advance more than they did, or are they just too selfish to make a longer drive if their kid misses the bus?
I don’t know why this article cites SAT data as proof of anything. Maine is the only state that has tested everyone on the SAT, instead of just testing college bound students who choose to take it and pay the fee. So *of course* Maine lags behind the national average. It’s not an even playing field.
I would expect (hope?) the author would realize this difference and not use prejudiced data to prove his point. How do college bound Maine students compare with college bound students in other states and nationally? That’s a valid measure.
Did this just change? There never was any requirement to take the SAT’s unless you wanted to go to college.
Maybe about five years ago. It was Susan Gendron’s plan on getting more Maine students to go to college (I doubt it has actually worked). She made it the test by which we measure all of our schools for No Child Left Behind, which is probably not the best thing, since SAT scores are highly correlated to income and parents’ education (not necessarily as much to school or teacher quality).
And yes, the state pays for the SAT and PSAT for all Maine students.
I have to ask……..What test should we use to measure are schools?
How about a spelling and grammar test. “Are” schools? Really?
We use the SAT to measure our high schools.
Maybe we also need to improve income as well as parents’ education? Lots of good courses in the adult ed division at most high schools in the evenings. Raise up the state? Just saying…
I don’t disagree with you there. Education of any sort is good. If parents are doing it, then their children will see the value as well.
I personally don’t trust the college data regarding remedial courses. They are the ones assigning students to these remedial courses, and they are the ones directly benefiting from putting them in remedial courses (make them pay, but don’t give them credit). I remember my high school Calculus, Trig and even Algebra II classes being harder than any math class I had to take in college. I think the colleges need to be assessed, because I think you would find many of them are simply falsely placing students so they can make a buck.
In the moment I never thought high school was was necessarily “easy” but looking back on it now that I’ve been out for 10 plus years I must admit it was a pretty easy 4 years. I almost never did any homework and didn’t pay all that much attention in class and was still able to maintain a 90.3 average. College was a HUGE wake up call.
It is not tough enough for the same reason the standards for the military and police have been drastically reduced. To be fair to those who are not up to the standards. It used to be that when one worked and failed the thing to do was to work HARDER. Now if one fails it is not even there fault it is the person or organization that gave them the test/ task they failed at. Also the teachers unions have dummed down our children like rocks in the yard. Last but not least the family unit has been destroyed and to many parents care more about they are doing then sitting down with there kids and making them study talking to there teachers and making them do the work.
Thank you – you just made my case for moving to a socialist society! The common citizen has proven over and over they are not capable of regulating themselves.
That’s what you got from that? Not that the GOVERNMENT FORCED the people to accept lower standards to let everyone play and not say to bad to those who do not measure up? The peoples right to regulate there own live with LOGIC and COMMON sense has been removed in the name of fairness to those who do not make the grade.
Missed the point all together, they changed the standards period: look at military physical fitness standards, why are the test for males harder then the test for the females?? You do not lower the standard, you either can do it or you can not. Today everyone get a trophy. Do not keep score at a kids baseball game someone’s feelings might get hurt. if you want to get on the fire department, then everyone has to pass the same test, same standard period. That will get you the best people for the job. The socialist way is its not fair, he has more money then me, and it does not work.
Have you ever lived anywhere other then the U.S. or Maine?
I went to grade school in an out of state public school system. In the fourth grade we were learning algebra and learning how to distinguish different designs of columns [Classical Greek architecture] In the fifth grade we were reading John Steinbeck novels. In junior high we were given required summer reading lists. Over 80% of my graduation class went on to a four year education institution, which was about average in most schools in the State.
One of the times i went to a teacher-parent conference for my daughter at a SAD school, one teacher had a plague on the wall ‘the best part of teaching is summer’ . What kind of attitude is that in this very competitive world. One female teacher had a midriff on, good thing Rush Limbaugh was not there, i know what he would have said.
And it is not only the public schools, UMaine schools have one of the shortest school years in the country. They are on a ‘two week’ Spring break right now, most colleges only have one week. Short college school years means less education,less education means less educated college graduates. UMaine students should be complaining their education is getting shortchanged with a 2 week break. I believe UMaine students school year ends earlier than most colleges. More loss education,. Not good.
Today’s university system is now the new high school education. The entire educational system has been watered down over the past 40 or so years. I’d be willing to wager that a high school education from the 1950’s was of about equal rigor to today’s university education.
I’ve been saying this for years. I was totally disgusted with the education my own children received compared to what i had receives 25 years earlier. Lets just say I was not the most popular parent with the teachers.
They do have a two week break however, I think if you check you’ll find they also go back earlier in January. I have two daughters at UMaine and their friends in non-UMS schools went back 1-2 weeks later than they did.
That said, I think a lot of the more difficult programs are out there for the students, however, with budget cuts schools are trying to make due and often don’t have the teachers with the skill/knowledge set necessary for the higher level courses. Certainly the pass rate for AP courses offered in our school system is not what I think it should be.
Yeah, well UMaine’s winter break is also one week shorter than that of many other schools, too…And they now get out earlier in the summer because students were having trouble getting summer employment since students from other states and schools got out earlier than them and were getting all the jobs. This change in the academic calendar came as a result of pressure from students and the tourism industry. If we continue to make it necessary for high school and college kids to work in order to go to school, education will continue to take a back seat to after-school and summer jobs.
Sounds like UMaine students are a tad slow to the ways of the world.
The time to look and acquire a seasonal,summer ,tourism job, is to look in February or March at the latest. Those are the periods tourist business hire most of their help for the approaching summer. By April 1 st, most businesses are ‘all set’ for the summer.
No, I wasn’t saying that they wait til summer to find jobs…they simply didn’t get hired back when they were getting out a week or two later than students from MA, FL, etc, because when you apply for a job they ask when you’re available…most service related industries need people before mid May, so they were getting passed up for jobs. Lots of local businesses were very vocal about wanting to hire Maine students to work, but needing them before mid to late May. Pressure from some of these businesses helped UMaine to change the calendar.
We have a lot bigger problem . Kids from poor environments have a lot less chance of getting a college degree than upper middle class kids with far less ability . Seems like the system rewards people from good families and punishes ones from not so perfect one. I think back to my sons 3rd grade sience fair . The kids who you could tell parents did most the work got good grades. The poor kid from a disfunctional family had no project and cried that day. Stuff like that will either will make a kids confidence or destroy it early on. Who Is to blame ? Well In my opinion it was a bad teacher . Now a childs test scores have little to do with grades . Its about projects and homework . Some smart kids who test higher get poorer grades because the do not grow up in environments conducive to doing homework.
Well no duh…but FAR TOO MANY kids enter the ninth grade with the brains of a louse…and if teachers REALLY hold them accountable their worthless excuse of a parent(s) will scream bloody murder and to shut them up the administration will put the full court press on the teacher to give Timmy or Suzie the grade the parent wants. And if you didn’t know that’s how the system REALLY works in EVERY SINGLE MAINE SCHOOL then don’t bother posting.
I was married to a teacher. Lets just say i was not the most popular person with her friends when I discussed the failings of the education system and refused to give them a “pass” when they absolved themselves from any responsibility.
My daughter is a teacher and more than once her contract was not renewed because she refused to go along with the administration and just pass everyone. She teaches advanced math and in one school the policy was to grade simply satisfactory or unsatisfactory.
They can’t stand up for fair grades? A teacher almost can’t be fired. If the teachers really cared about the kids and had some respect for the profession they would stand up to this and demand the ability to fairly evaluate students at contract time. Instead we get the same cries for more cash and benefits and not a peep about fairly grading the kids when contract “negotiations” come up.
C’mon. think about the kids for a change.
Oldmainer…you have no idea.
The problem is that I understand all too well.
Someone should ask our lying governor if high school was tough enough? lol. It almost did him in! lol.
Is Maine one of very few states remaining that grade a little tougher- a D is still a D, not a C-?
By the way, my daughter played soccer last Fall, what a game…both teams won.
The fact that 1 in 5 Maine students entering college is not prepared would belie the theory that Maine grades to a high standard.
This may have something to do with Aggregate Daily Attendance which is one of the ways the school system is funded. If you make it too difficult students will absent themselves more thus cutting down on funding.
Sadly poor or inadequate academic achievement is blamed on the facility. As a consequence we build new schools that cost more and more. These testaments to stupidity are beautiful in appearance with 3 story glass facades and university class athletic facilities. Rather, we should be investing in superior teachers, labs, computers, and the other accoutrements essential to a good education. Now our investments are made for “school pride” and kids having a good time.
Totally agree. We should be able to evaluate the teachers and remove those not up to the task (after all we know that teaching doesn’t attract the best since the pay is low). Then we can pay the remaining quality teachers more and attract better qualified teachers to replace those let go…just like in the real world.
WWhen high schools start putting the same emphasis on academics as they do sports, you’ll see a change. Go into your high school and look at the trophy cabinets. Do the first ones contain sports trophies or academic trophies. Most school put their academic trophies in the principal’s office. What type of message does that send? It took 3 years to get the Board in my town to put the academic trophies before the sports trophies and put them where the public could see them. Did our academics improve? Yes.
I would advocate looking to Canada for educational solutions. The Canadian system is a “top – down” system regulated by their Federal government (this even includes daily lesson plans). The US system is a hodge-podge of competing educational philosophies that are diametrically opposed – even here in Maine two High Schools 20 miles apart are so different that it defies the imagination. This is due to the undemocratic concept of “local control” which is as evil an institution as segregation was once in the south – because now you are segregating educational approach and content on a locational basis. We need in Maine to look at the Canadian model and see how we can restore equality for all students educationally in Maine. Think there is no disparity? Look at Cape Elizabeth School’s vs. Stearns High School in Millinocket – enough said!
I think that there is a big problem with the education as a whole, not just in High school. I think the problem comes from “letting kids be kids” and forgetting that we need to get them ready for adulthood. I think that we need to stop letting everyone be winners and raise the standards. If you look at what was required for a 5th grader in the early 20th century, it was alot higher then what is expected of most universities today.
High expectations for our children should begin on the day the child is born. If we can show our children that learning is fun when they are little, we set the bar of expectation. And, a young child is like a sponge. They love learning. They all learn in a different way and at a different pace, but if we encourage them, they will learn.
Even that does not work on all kids
Maine has a much higher percentage of Kids taking the SATs than most other states . Some States only the top students take them. We cannot compare an apple to an orange . The whole school raking system should be looked at as a whole . Compare Bangor High school to Central Bangor ranks like 9 Central ranks like 3 . Central has a pool of kids from a lower socieconomic class A whole lot less school funding less teacher pay (hard to recruit the best with less pay) and a much lower drop out rate . Witch school is better? I guess it depends on who you are . A kid from a single parent low income family would probably fair much better at Central . A kid from a 2 parent middle class house hold would probably fair better at Bangor. Now send a kids to college for (when some are not smart enough)4 year degree or have have them drop out what is the higher cost to society? Put the Grades back to what the child really learns not homework and projects and you will find the gap between to disadvantaged kid narrow . A kid with an IQ in the 80s will probably never learn algebra 11 might pass the class but not learn it. We can not change the kids natural ability very much . I am not very smart did not go to college . I also know people with 4 year degrees that might be more educated but not nearly as smart as I am and never will be. All Kids should at least get a diploma and do the best they can. the SAT is more of an IQ test than a true representation of what or how a kid is taught. We cannot change an IQ . In my field of work I see people with 2 year degrees will probably never know as much as I do about the book learning or math part . Why can we not be real about what to expect?
My sixth grade granddaughter has 2-4 hours of homework during the week, but that’s far from common. I know high school students where I live often do no homework. If they’re failing, put them in special ed where the standards are lower rather than make them do the homework of regular classes. A student will get a failing grade but still get a new snowsled. I must be getting too old or something. It makes no sense to me at all.
There is now and has been ever since the inception of NCLB too much testing time and not enough teaching time in our schools. The SAT is an idiotic measure of school success. It is a good measure of individual student success (readiness). I was there when Gendron announced her mantra “Every student college ready” and her intent to replace the MEA with the SAT. I nearly fell out of my chair. Programs that had been put in place to make learning more applicable to student needs had to change to accomodate this new type of assessment. It was a step backward for education in Maine which had been among the leaders in successful educational reform. The MEA had its drawbacks – too much time allocated for testing and a hit-or-miss approach to assessing the Maine Learning Results. But it was a much better tool for assessing a school’s success than the SAT.
I stopped reading this drivel at; “Without Algebra II you don’t even become an auto mechanic.” Are people really this stupid?
Take a class in algebra 11 just barely pass . But do not really understand Numbers lol What a joke how many jobs really need algebra 11 electrical engineers maybe. I Know for a fact many school teacher can not do algebra11.
The problem it seems is that teachers get lambasted if they don’t coddle and baby the students. Either the parents are beyond demanding, wanting to be updated on their children’s overall grades on a weekly basis or they’re completely absent. Whatever happened to the quarterly report cards and the students themselves having to keep track between those times? The students miss homework and test and then the teachers have to bend over backwards top accommodate them.
I know these things have been done with good intentions, the accommodations, frequent updates, etc., but I think ultimately it’s leading the students to be less responsible. In turn, the schools have to lower their standards otherwise they end up with a bunch of failing kids. I think we need to be asking more of the students.
It is the whole everyone get a trophy mentality, it is taught in school, no discipline, no responsibility on either side including the teachers, it is so hard to fire a union teacher where is the incentive to teach? When students missed a day of school your missed lesson was either on the chalk board, or you were told what it was when you returned to class, now it is if you miss school so what I get paid weather you are in the seat or not, I heard those words right from a H.S. English teacher.
Now I would agree with that teacher’s attitude, to the kids that want to skip class all the time, and you will and should know the difference.
Completely disagree. The teachers do enough, it’s the students and the parents that aren’t stepping up. Everyone expects teachers to be magicians and fulfill all sorts of roles. They have to teacher, parent, babysit, be friends, etc. otherwise they’re just demonized as “lazy union thugs.” If they don’t do these things, give extensions and provide essentially up to the day reports of overall grades, they get blamed for being bad teachers. That shouldn’t be their responsibility.
I was not taught to read by my parents, we were taught in school, See Dick Run. In Bufflow Ny teachers get plastic surgery as a benie, and over 50% drop out rate, Bufflow spent like six million alone last years in these types of benies. Money would have been spent much better some place else. Teacher’s are getting as lazy as the parents and students.
But I an not surprised you would disagree, surprise surprise surprise.
Our current educational model that goes back over 100 years was created with an eye to
produce hive workers for the Corporate driven society, eliminate critical independent thinking,
while producing boy soldiers who acquiesce their soul to the Military Industrial complex and
become serial killers. Did I mention school is where the final disconnect between the individual and god
occurs, where it is bred out of the students system, eh?
Pssst, I am not a evangelical christian. I just believe as a society we have lost the ability to partnership with all that is.
I believe Maine artist Robert Shetterly has worked tirelessly to remedy this problem
with his portrait series called AMERICANS WHO TELL THE TRUTH .
There is now a curriculum that has been created to be used with the portraits
available at his website http://www.americanswhotellthetruth.org
“Without Algebra II you don’t even become an auto mechanic.”
This is entirely false. I’m an MET major at UMO and while algebra is certainly important for design and evaluation, I can’t find any reason an auto mechanic might need to know it.
My father is one of the best mechanics I know, he can take apart and fix anything mechanical. I’m not sure he even graduated high school, and I know for a fact he doesn’t know a thing about algebra II.
I was the victim in high school of misinformation like this. It really brings people’s hopes down and makes them think they can’t do anything without a full education, that is not true. A lot of people aren’t suited for that type of math, or for higher education, but they often end up getting along perfectly fine in the real world, doing practical jobs such as being an auto mechanic.
“Without Algebra II you don’t even become an auto mechanic.”
This is entirely untrue. I’m an MET student at UMO, and while Algebra is certainly important for later math you might use in design or evaluation, I can’t think of a single reason you might need it to be an auto mechanic. My father is the best mechanic I know, he can take a part anything mechanical – from a 1950s Farmall tractor to a 2010 387 Peterbilt truck – and put it back together. He never graduated high school and he certainly doesn’t know a lick of Algebra.
I was the victim of this kind of misinformation in high school and it really irritates me.
A lot of people aren’t cut out for that type of math or further education, and all throughout high school they hammer the idea that you won’t amount to anything without a college degree into you. This can make your future look pretty glum if you’re not the academic sort.
I know and have worked with a few business owners, involving plumbing, construction, and heating. None of these business owners would be able to tell you a thing about Algebra, yet they are masters of their profession and get along just fine.
To suggest that you won’t amount to anything without Algebra II is absurd, and only serves to bring down people’s morale.
Students should be pushed to find their strengths, and encouraged to follow those strengths. Whether that involves graduating from high school and going into the work force and learning a trade, or going on to higher education.
Let us not blame the teachers, or the students or even the parent. The dilution is all part of the dumbing down of America. Do not fail kids, it will hurt their self esteem. Do not let the children lose in sports, it will make them sad. Special interest groups anyone?
You know what isn’t tough enough in high school? The expectations. Put the stupid electronics away, take out your notebooks, take notes, turn in your homework when it’s due or take a zero. Don’t turn it in 10 points off per day late, that’s stupid- how come a kid who turned it in three days late can stand a chance at getting the same grade as a student who turned it in on time and had a harder time with it? That’s not life. If you have a job, you show up at a meeting ready to take notes and you don’t screw around with your phone, laptop, friends. If you have a presentation at your job, you don’t put it off until you get around to it- it’s due that day, period. If high school more closely mimicked college or the work force, you’d see stronger results.
Oh, and if you’re on a sports team, you do your work just as hard, if not harder than, those around you. You don’t get your grades padded so you can bring pride to your school. You do what you’re meant to do and earn your grade. School first, sports last.