AUGUSTA, Maine — There were more than 1,200 public employees in Maine who collected a salary and a state pension at the same time last year.
Ten of those so-called double dippers earned an average of $168,000 last year, according to data from the Maine Public Employees Retirement System. Seven were school superintendents. Eighty-six percent of the double dippers worked in education.
Maine Today Media reported that nearly 500 additional people collected a state pension while also earning a salary from a municipality.
Double dipping has come under increased scrutiny at a time of shrinking public budgets. Critics say some people are taking advantage of the system and thwarting the career advancement of talented younger workers.
Defenders say it keeps experienced and skilled employees in the work force.
Yeah…common slobs are trying to get ahead…gotta bring an end to the practice…Only the 1% can be on top.
Better to pay these slobs $168K than having the $$ get into the classrooms
why bother writing the story, what the state does is ok just dont do it as a nonstate employee
“Defenders say it keeps experienced and skilled employees in the work force.”
Ya !
They’ve done such a great job so far.
Let’s see this could be 1200 new job’s. Go Governor!!!!!!
If the teachers / workers in question end up earning roughly the same money by working part time with some state pay & some pension as they would with full-time pay working full time, then why don’t they just work full time? Oh yeah!!!!!…. It’s because they are gaming the system to get just as much money for less work…. but hey, they’ve earned it with all those arduous years of summer vacations, Christmas (er’ um.. “Holiday”) vacations, April vacations, February vacations, snow days, sick days, personal days, workshop days, and field trip days. But hey, the children are our future right? Why pay old teachers who are good with scheming the pension system when there are lines of young teachers willing to work for less, work harder, and with lower benefits…. oh yeah.. THE UNION. What a load of crap! And yes, I’m familiar with their old excuse of: “but we have these part-time positions that would be costly to fill with new employees, so why not just hire these experienced semi-retired teachers”. Well, that’s because your union-run brainwashing factories are already inefficient with redundant positions left over after Baldacci’s consolidation efforts, so why not just trim the fat where it can be trimmed and hire those needed few part-time workers instead of foiling potential earned state income tax by using partial pension-paid workers? Oh yeah… THE UNION.
I am a disabled state worker. I do not work at any job. I do not make any money other the pension I earned as a mental health worker and the survivor’s benefits that are from my spouse working for the state. I pay both state and federal taxes on this money and quite sure the others do as well. Where did you get the idea that taxes aren’t paid on these pensions?
Did you pay Social Security during your working days and do you pay it now? Just wondering.
No, they paid more than SS. More than SS. What part of more don’t your understand?
AgentP….not too angry now, are we? Teachers do not get paid year-round, they get paid for the school year, some districts opt to let the teachers’ salary get paid all year round. If you knew anything, you would know that most school districts, dare say almost all, hire new, fresh out of college teachers to replace those that leave. Field trip days? are you serious? I have chaperoned my children’s field trips in the past, and that is a hard, hard working day! Teachers are not having fun on workshop days, it is WORK and can sometimes be a longer day if one must travel to the workshop in another part of the state. Most decent employers offer sick and personal days…what is your problem with that? And anyone who works in schools that is not on salary does not get paid for snow days (ed techs, cooks, subs, etc). You would rather risk the children’s lives to get to school in dangerous conditions? And many times, snowdays must be made up at the end of the year so it is not a day “off”. Unfortunately, the teachers union is not worth alot of crap these days.
The color green comes in many shades…….
These people are working. That’s what you all have been whining about–and now, apparently, they have “worked too much”.
Translation please??
Why don’t you substitute teach and see how easy it is? Oh yeah, there are background checks and qualifications to substitue. Educating 24 -30 students 5 or 6 times a day and doing it well is an arduous task and takes great preparation. Did you ever think that many educators use their “free time ” to take class, earn advanced degrees so that their students will have every advantage.
24-30 students ?? The average class size in Maine is 13 now…It USED to be 24-30 back when we were in school…The smaller class size supposedly being better “for the children” is a union scam not to lay off teachers as student enrollment continues to drop…Also that is 3 or 4 times a day…
BDN buried this story. Great job.
Great use of taxpayer $$$. Keep up the good work NEA
Soooooo, what’s the issue? All of the money is fairly earned so no worries. Why run the story?
1200 new people with jobs, not 1200 people drawing a full pension with medical insurance and another salary.You don’t have to retire after 25 years of service, but it appears that it pays quite well if you do and you get rehired. Many States have stopped this practice and revamped their pension systems to be aligned to the private sector.
Why is this any different from someone who retires from the military and goes to work for the post office or immigration or local police department or LL Bean or any other job a retiree may take to keep up with the cost of living? Or has a private pension or Social Security and goes back to work. Besides, they only get 75% of the state salary they were paid before leaving and lots of times they come back at an entirely different job which pays less. You are continually yapping on here about people need to go to work. Now when they do you complain about that!!
Most private pension can’t be drawn till age 65 without heavy penalties. I don’t think you can compare someone who has to carry’s a weapon to perform their job to a snow plow driver, beside they had to apply at the new job and be accepted. They “only ” get 75 %. Wow you need to get out more. No one forced them to retire so move on and let someone that needs a job have one.
Gee, sounds like you are jealous. Maybe if you ever had a job, you might understand. It also saves the state money to rehire them because there is no retirement contribution by the state. BTW,so you can do it if you ever caried a gun!!! My brother retired from the Navy, never carried a gun and now works for the Post Office. Guess that theory doesn’t work.
I knew it would come out. Can’t argue a point without trying to degrade someone. Don’t drink the water pondlady.lol
Most public employees can’t retire before age 60, and most have to work until 63 before they can draw a penalty free retirement. Doesn’t seem like a huge difference.
The issue is double dipping. which doesn’t happen as much in the private sector. 1200 double dippers equates to 1200 new jobs. You retire move on let some else have job.
You can’t retire after 25 years in State service. You now have to be 65.
Yes you can! Where did you get your info, go into corrections, state police, game warden, and so on, it is a 25 ys retirement…………still! Or you can get voted into the house / Legislature and do it faster!
I got my information from reading the state laws passed. The existing employees were grandfathered. New employees were not. What they did lose is that regardless of years or age if they retire before their age, and collect their retirement, they lose their health care.
The State police can retire under those terms. No one else. You are right about the legislature, they exempted themselves from pension cuts for their 13,000 dollar salaries. Everything else they earn if they come back is under the same law. Educate yourself, learn facts not prejudice.
It is all earned so whats the big deal???? It saves the state money in the end because the knowledge the pensioned worker brings costs a lot to impart on a new worker. Short sighted, neighbor. Stop worrying about what someone else has earned.
Liberals and math, you gotta love it. A billionaire earns his money fairly as well, soooooo what’s the issue?
Weather’s warming up, are you going back to your OWS encampment?
I want the same tax return as GE. Republican drooling points. It would have been too kind to say talking points.
They don’t all earn their money. Many bilk the government and the people to get ahead. Show me a billionaire, any billionaire, and I will show you someone who has cheated people to get ahead.
Never been to an encampment but broad generalization and bias is precisely what I would expect from you, given your comments. You seem to have everybody figured out.
OWS will be back though. The people are getting screwed by the government and big business. Been happening for three decades. They are approaching the tipping point. You are too easily fooled by the media to understand that you have been played.
We are not talking about fraud here. What is wrong with a person collecting a pension they have EARNED and also working for a salary? Jeez how dare they have the ambition to continue working into retirement!! This is common practice in industry when a person has the knowledge or skill set that the employee needs, they will bring back a retired person as a “consultant”. Because these people worked for the state makes no difference. .
These people do not work for the “state” they work for WE the taxpayers who pay them….
So they may have worked for 30 years and had THEIR money taken out each week, and now want to collect THEIR Money and still work…? Personally I don’t care who pays them.
They also pay taxes so in essence, they pay their own salary!!
Yes, and when they work for us the taxpayers after they retire, they work for less than they did in the first place. When a public employee in Maine retires, collects a pension, then goes back to work in the public sector, we taxpayers don’t continue making retirement contributions. If another, non-retired person filled that public sector job, however, we would have to. It is cheaper to keep the retiree on the job.
Why is it that people who resent what public workers have always want to strip them of it instead of asking why they themselves don’t have the same benefit?
Maybe because we don’t vote for our boss.
Actually many workers own stock in the companies they work for, therefore they do vote for their bosses.
Don’t try to deflect the point I was making. I never worked for a politician, a politician’s is elected to run the government for the people. Guess who is the largest employer in Maine?
If you did he would fire you!
Now Dilbert pay nice.
And we should be thankful that they stayed here to provide their superior knowledge and service. Without them we’d likely be stuck with Marden’s cashiers running schools, teaching advanced math and science, or working in the Blaine House.
One trick ponies are so boring. You got any new tricks little pony?
He’s right, one trick or not. Unless being right is the one trick you are pointing out.
One trick or not,him being right is still just a matter of opinion, jaded at best.
Turning tricks is an ALEC specialty. Ask Senator Rosen, chair of ALEC in Maine. His failing business in Rockland is certainly not paying his way. He is planning on running for gov but does not have the guts to face Paulie.
Apparently the people at Marden’s are better at math than the people at DHHS.
Question: Does it cost the state any more money to hire someone back who is also collecting retirement — as opposed to hiring someone else?
Answer: No.
So what is the problem?
Less money.
Less, State law says if I retire and come back, first I must wait 30 days, and my pay is 25% lower than a non-retired person. Look it up.
So,………you don’t want to hire an experienced employee at a lower salary? Explain that.
Well….pension is defined as a plan to give regular payments to retirees. If you do not retire you are not a retiree. You are an employee…one or the other folks….employee or retiree. I think all forms of pensions should be suspended if one chooses to continue working for a wage.
What you don’t seem to realize is that the pension is based on the years of service, average earnings of their best 3 years, and age at retirement. So, the retirement amount is fixed when they retire, no matter what they do next. If they choose to work during their retirement, this has no effect on their retirement benefits. What is the problem?
I am not sure why you say that, municpal employees although they may get 2 pensions. MSRS ususally cuts it back, and if you make to much you have to even pay taxes on it.
I think you missed the point ….consider what your words say: “work during retirement.” That is a prime example of an oxymoron.
I don’t believe I posted a word about the amount of one’s benefits upon retirement. That is not a concern of mine.
Ok, you win the syntax debate. Your stance still makes no sense to me. Think of the “retirement” benefit as cashing in an annuity, which is exactly what it is. When these “double dippers” were first employed, they were told if they worked X number of years and then “retired”, they would receive “Y” income for life, based on the number of years and salary they earned during the original employment period. They have now cashed that annuity in, and are receiving the promised benefit (of course, many who worked for decades have had those benefits yanked from them, but that’s not what we’re discussing here). So now they’re collecting their annuity, which any reasonable person could agree is their right, as they fulfilled the terms of their employment contract. Who cares what they do next?
It is not! You should educate yourself as to the conditions these people worked for at least 25 years under. This is what they worked for! Now you want to change the rules. Shame on you. Shame on the Koch brothers, shame on the Maine Media, shame on Maine Heritage…You people buy their crap, and ultimatley only they will prosper.
What do the Koch brothers and Maine Media have to do with state of maine pensions? Nothing, that’s what. If 86 per cent of the double dippers work in education, it is a local problem as much as a state one.
Don’t start spewing out your anti-conservative bias at an issue that has nothing to do with politics. Everyone in state government, democrats and republicans alike, are scrutinizing the problem.
They wrote the playbook, they fund the attack on working people. They try to turn the attention away from the criminal conduct of the 1%. They hoodwink fools….
You’re right, of course.
Ohhhh..ahhhh..the evil Koch brothers…oohhhhh…ahhhhhh..must get back to DailyKos site before my tin foil hat explodes..ohhhhh..ahhhhhh.
Rules change all the time and I worked 35 years in some “condition’s” as you said. As taxpayers we have the right to ensure are money is spent on what is best for the State.
So you don’t like hiring experienced people at a lower salary?
Well you will have an elderly population that will not survive when they give up social security as you say and try to work full time. Many people work when drawing social security, it’s the same thing your saying should not be allowed.
There are a lot of retired military that continue to work after a 20 year or so career in the military. And I would agree if you go back to work in the same job for the same government office. But if you are working for a different level of government if you have earned a pension you should be able to keep it. The problem that military retirees will have is if they land a job working for the federal government when the time comes to actually retire, there will be very little if any social secruity benefits.
Know anyone on SS?
Yup!
So if I put 20 years in the military defending our country . Then move on to another civil service job .I am not entitled to another pension if i put in another 20 or so years to bump my retirement income. Or take on a hazardous job such as a trooper or game warden which has the 20 year retirement to attract people .I am not deserving of something I earned and worked for ?
What a racket these state workers have, our superintendent retired at 56 went on to become a “consultant” for the department of education. Did he have to retire at 56, NO, he just wanted to make sure he was able to collect that nice state pension. He already had his “consultant” job lined up before he retired. By the way he was a lousy superintendent.
What he did is legal. Maybe you should get an education so you can make some good money too.
Then you better read this…
http://newjersey.watchdog.org/
There are quite a few stories about double and triple dipping.
but its for the chiiiildren !!!! public ed employees are the pits
Perhaps if you listened to your teachers, you might know how to use punctuation. Students like you are the pits.
Blah Blah
Sent from my U.S. Cellular Android device
—– Reply message —–
Yeah, so? This is news because? Character assasination perhaps? It certainly isn’t illegal or immoral activity.
It is not a simple matter of retiring and just earning
another salary in a different field. These people retired,
are getting a pension and now are back employed by US
the taxpayer. If a private company wants to hire back a
retiree as a “consultant”, they are using corporate money
to pay these people. Usually with no benefits and at a lesser
rate of pay and only for a short duration. A lot of companies
have a moratorium of how long you have to be out of the company
before you could return after you retire. In the private industry,
not everyone is “paying” for the double dipping. Only those who
prefer to buy the products or services of a company. If the public
sector feels they NEED these people then they should HIRE a
person to replace the one who left. It sure may be legal but it is
a rip-off to the taxpayer who is the one actually paying these salaries.
If someone is going to say this is fine, then don’t whine about your taxes
going up or teachers not being hired. Why aren’t the unions yelling?
For every double dipper, that is taking a possible job from someone
trying to become a teacher.
couldn’t have said it better.
Kudos Homer. Well said.
Furthermore, in the private corporation I worked at you could not start drawing your pension if you continued to work for the organization. This was written into the pension by-laws. Thus no double dipping.
Sorry you were such a tool to work for those conditions.
Oh! Sorry, you chose to work for those conditions, the same as the State Employee who comes back to work at a lower salary, saving your tax dollars.
“the same as the State Employee who come back to work at a lower salary, saving your tax dollars.”
Maybe – if you hire the State Employee back to do the same job the way she/he has always done it aren’t you really wasting tax dollars if this employee is standing in the way of a well-qualified, motivated and creative individual?
There is a very powerful argument for introducing fresh blood into an organization; it keeps the organization’s arteries from getting clogged.
And who wants government run like a business?
The game is up, the veil removed and the spotlight shining now on the 30 year rip-off of taxpayers dollars. Funny how Lib’s ONLY want to discuss Wall Street excess, Banks… anyone who wears a collared shirt and works for a living. The bloat, waste and out right fraud that is Maine State Government is now having it’s day in the sun. Starve the Beast and gut DHHS!
This article is relevant to DHHS, how ?
If someone’s earned their retirement, who are you to steal it from them ?
Think it through.
If you make it a requirement that people can’t work past their retirement, who is that harming ?
Such a proposal would never fly in the business sector.
How much more are you going to have to pay someone to do a job that has the requirement that you can’t collect the pension that YOU EARNED, if you decide to go back to work ?
And what incentive is their to stay in public service, instead of taking your skills to the business sector ?
This is another example of being penny-wise, pound idiotic.
Re;tiring with full pension benefits, then staying in the same job for the same salary is fair? I do not believe so. Some superintendents are receiving the retirement benefit and still working for one or more school districts at their previous salary–should have been questioned when it was voted on.
Many in education work from age 25 to age 55 or 60 and retire and take their well earned pension. If they choose to work after that and are offered a job good for them. So what? Whats the problem?
“If a private company wants to hire back a
retiree as a “consultant”, they are using corporate money
to pay these people. Usually with no benefits and at a lesser
rate of pay and only for a short duration.”
I don’t know where you get your info, and I can’t dispute ‘usually’, but I can assure you it doesn’t always work that way. My brother retired from a paper mill a couple of years ago and has been making more as a consultant for them than he ever did as an employee. I know a fellow who’s father experienced exactly the same thing at a different paper mill.
This only happens when the union’s unethically surive.
I really don’t think you know what you’re talking about. For information about consultants vs. employees, read the article at http://career.thingamajob.com/becoming-a-contractor.aspx/Consulting-vs-Permanent-employment.aspx
In case you can’t see it, notice the paragraph that starts out with “Consultants generally earn higher wages.”.
That’s what I’ve heard for years from folks I know that retire and come back in a consultant role. The hourly rate takes a huge jump. So even if the company/agency that rehires them no longer pays a retirement/benefits package I bet it’s almost a wash as to actual cost for the company. So in the end, in this case is the state really paying out any more $$ than if they’d hired a regular employee with all the usual benefits? It would be interesting to see the numbers.
I got my info from experience and having done it
in the PRIVATE SECTOR.
So that’s how B.W. of Bangor can afford a new “gown” every day.
wasnt there a law of some kind passed by the regan admin. about double dipping? or did that just apply to ordinary people not public employees.
That applies. State Retires and teachers can not collect Social Security. Ignorance abounds!
sounds like typical double dipping teacher talking
No, it only applied to State Employees who get a pension. Even if they earned SS it gets cut to about 45% because they had the gall to earn a pension.
thanks for clarifing that for me
if they were not there someone else would have to be and the same money would still be expended.I fail to see the point other than jealousy that others had not chose a career that would lend itself to take advantage of this option.This double dipping happens in every state in the union,as mention earlier states do rehire retirees as the only expenditure is there wages as they already have the benefits.
So if a person retires on Friday and gets his pension but returns to work on Monday at a reduced rate and they don’t have to pay him or her vacation time sick days or medical cause he gets that from his retirement package then it seems to me the employer is saving money.. Yes they are taking the job away from a younger person with no experience, but the key word is the employer is saving money money that can be used for other things.. These days with the schools taking a budget hit the way they are it makes sense why they would do this.. So if a new hire lets say makes a salary of 100.00 thousand for the sake of argument.. Plus benefits totals 125.00 thousand again for the sake of argument.. But to hire a retiree he gets lets say for the sake of argument 50 thousand and no benefit package cause he has that with his retirement that means the school system is saving 75,000 a year.. That seventy five thousand can go to school supplies or something benefiting the students.. It may be double dipping but it makes perfect sense why the schools would do this.. With all these budget cuts and other things im appalled as to why it would be such a big deal..
give jobs to people who NEED jobs
I don’t mind a worker putting money aside for retirement but when we tax payers have to pay higher taxes in order to meet the unions demand etc. Then it’s time to vote the unions out. We tax payers can’t even afford to put money aside for our own retirement so why would we want to pay for someone’s else retirement.
What demands? You have don’t know what you are saying. List the demands the Union has made in the last 4 years and won? Unpaid days off, big win! Cuts in benefits! Another big win? Pay freeze and pay cuts! Damn those unions are greedy.
It’s pretty obvious from the comments that a few double dippers made sure they got there taxpayer paid for comments in here. Like the rest of us are stupid and they are the only ones who are able to do the job? Hey everyone look around you, is our state in good financial shape? Does the future look bright? I imagine one of those fake names belong to Ms. Mayhew, nuff said…
Just put a “stop” to this practice. The networking to make it happen has been going on for years. It just doesn’t happen to the average joe, it is a plan that needs the right people to support. Vote it out and move on.
Why stop hiring cheaper labor? Give me a reasonable answer. I know you can’t.
The story of the man going to prison for fraud and collecting his pension is especially upsetting to those of us today who received our ” pink slips” from Dorothea Dix Psychiatric Center .Our services will no longer be funded after 4/28/2012. This includes nurses, mental health workers, nurse practitioners, dietary personnel, social workers and so on. I did not think that I would see the day when nurses would be let go but it shows how bad off our state and the economy is. It has nothing to do with loyalty or how dedicated a worker you have been. Unfortunately it is business and not for the better care of the consumer. I did not expect to have to start over after decades of being a dedicated and,I thought, valuable employee. I am a professional and will act as such with a smile on my face for my clients, but my heart is saddened for what lies ahead for them. My condolences to all who received that letter today.
Why should Union thugs get to retire anyway? All they ever did was take our money and do nothing while expecting to get a free ride in a Cadillac for the rest of their lives. They take a State job, retire after three weeks on the job with a full pension at three times their salary, get paid to be sick, receive free food, pay no taxes, while destroying Democracy.
We need to make them pay us back for having the raw B&**( to take our tax money, teach our kids, keep us safe from criminals.
They can come back, but they should pay us for letting them into a warm building in the winter.
You know, you say “Doubledippers” like it was a bad thing. These people didn’t make the rules, their playing by them. Change the rules but don’t blame the people who aren’t breaking any laws.
If the workers earned 3 pensions and still work, it is OK with me. They earned it you jealous bunch of $@&s.
20 and 30 year military retirees have been doing this for years. This is nothing new nor is it wrong. Who’s the socialist that came up with this story ? Just exactly who is ” associated press ” ?
Obviously a lot of people don’t like double-dipping. But it works this way. People who retire have worked for 30 or 40 years with the agreement that there will be retirement at some point. Their employers have agreed to these conditions. Again, I emphasize that it is an agreement, a contract, made by both parties. Then comes the retirement and the contract must be fulfilled. Our society considers contracts to be very, very important. After retirement, what then? The retiree is very likely to be skilled, knowledgeable, and a proven reliable worker who may even like to work. So what should happen? Should proven assets to society not be utilized? That would be, well, stupid.
So freaking what?