AUGUSTA, Maine — A proposal to allow same-sex couples to marry in Maine is a step closer to a referendum.
Without debate, the House on Tuesday voted to kill the citizen-initiated bill, a clear sign that representatives want the state’s voters to decide whether to authorize gay marriages. The matter now goes to the Senate.
In 2009, Maine voters repealed a legislatively passed gay marriage law 53 percent to 47 percent.
The latest effort to force a referendum comes after gay rights activists say many Mainers have changed their minds about the issue and are now willing to accept same-sex marriages.
Because the bill arises from the citizen initiative process, lawmakers have an option to pass it exactly as proposed or kill it, which sends it to voters.
What evidence has been provided that Maine voters have changed their minds about the issue and are now willing to accept same-sex marriages? Because “gay activists say so?”
At least be honest: Mainers have not changed their minds—it’s that the Gay activists haven’t changed theirs. If you are going to call me a bigot because I express an opinion different than yours, then that must be all you got left–name calling. See you at the voting booths in November.
Win, lose, or draw there will be a higher percentage of people voting for it than LePage got. Personally I am predicting a 55-45 vote in favor of marriage equality.
It’s a propaganda ploy used in politics all the time. There will always be a few weak minded individuals who will believe it. Anyone can make a poll come out however they wish. No worries.
Q8 In general, do you think same-sex marriage should be legal or illegal?
Legal………………………………………………………. 54%Illegal …………………………………………………….. 41%
Not sure …………………………………………………. 5%
I don’t know but this question looks pretty straight-forward.
OSOKRecon: “weak minded ?”
Who are calling “weak minded”, exactly, the majority ?
And why, sir ?
Jimbob, should repeat your point:
“Insult people, that will help.” ,
here, too ?
I suppose we will see in November.
I think it’s clear that many Mainers have changed their minds. Quite a few people were outraged when they saw Mark Mutty admit on camera that “Stand for Marriage Maine” was lying and deceiving voters with misleading ads to win the day. In contrast, gay Mainers have continued to make the clear, rational case for civil marriage.
And no, I don’t call people bigots for expressing an opinion that differs from mine. I call people bigots when they use their prejudice to vote away the civil rights of other Mainers.
I agree – the tables have turned somewhat, perhaps enough to make a difference in the tiny margin that divided the 2009 vote. Mark Mutty admitted to lying and regrets publishing the ads they did. The Catholic Diocese has announced that they won’t be heading up the anti-equality campaign this time. Mike Heath has disappeared into Africa somewhere and the CCL has essentially become irrelevant as they deal with their own internal lawsuits and other issues.
Not to mention that fact that this year is a presidential election and Obama will get the young and liberal votes out, especially the way the GOP has utterly failed to produce a viable candidate.
Remember one thing. If gasoline is $5 or $ 6 dollars a gallon likely President Obama won’t be reelected and turnout may not be what you predict. People will vote with their wallets and that may be a death sentence for homosexual marriage.
Get real, we all know that gasoline supplies are UP and demand is DOWN. Normally, that causes prices to drop. But this is just a GOP Dirty Trick committed by the GOP Oil Boys. We all know that. Even GOP voters know that–the turnout at the GOP primaries has been very small.
Wake up carrot cake and stop ranting. All I said is it will effect the election and I don’t care what your political view are. Most people will blame the President for high gasoline prices, just like they blamed President Bush.
President Obama has absolutely nothing to do with the price of oil or gasoline. Can’t you understand that? This is price manipulation by the Greedy Old Party to sway voters who refuse to think for themselves.
Beginning in the 80’s, the anti-discrimination bill went to voters, who rejected it. It came before voters four times until, in 2005, it passed with 55% of Mainers supporting it. It’s now illegal to discriminate against Mainers based on sexual orientation, in housing, employment, education, credit, and public accommodation.
Marriage equality will be no different. Even if it’s not passed by popular vote (and no civil right in US history has ever won national passage via popular vote, i.e. women’s suffrage, segregation, etc.), it will be legalized nationally by the high courts, especially when DOMA falls.
Maine voted to allow women’s suffrage AND legalized interracial marriage ahead of the nation.
If this passes, it will follow in that great tradition Mainers have set for this state in regards to equality.
We call you a bigot for actively trying to harm US citizens.
You bring it on yourself, and you have earned the moniker.
Big difference is same sex marriage supporters aren’t saying you have to marry any one but who you want to marry… BUT you are saying that they can’t marry who they want. That would make you the bigot.
Definition: A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
You could have had this last time if you wanted to call it something other than marriage. Someone isn’t a bigot if they don’t wish to have marriage polluted with what many consider a perversion.
Noting more ridiculous than an anti-gay trying to say he isn’t anti-gay.
Where did you ever get the idea that I wasn’t anti-homosexual?
There are nasty epithets to describe anti-gays, but I don’t use them. You claimed anti-gays aren’t bigoted. That was just hilarious! The only thing anti-gays achieve by claiming they aren’t anti-gay is they show everyone else anti-gays can’t even be honest about themselves.
As I said, I never claimed that I wasn’t anti-homosexual. So I was perfectly honest with you and myself.
And no, it doesn’t mean that someone who wants to preserve the institution of marriage is a bigot. It means that they have a different view than you.
Do you like Santorum, too, Recon ?
Except for the bible thumping and we definitely need abortion, he would be fine.
Still claiming anti-gays aren’t anti-gay? Hilarious!
Bookmark that for use in Oct. when a profile of the anti-equal right advocates is needed, BDN .
You certainly are being bigoted. Homosexuality is not a perversion, it’s an orientation. It is about love and attraction first, and sex second. Your opinion that it is a perversion is a bigoted one.
Well that also is your opinion.
Save all the “Oh it’s perfectly normal and natural” BS. It’s far from that.
No, it’s a FACT. Sexual orientation, whether gay or non-gay, has been shown by science to be inborn and unchangeable, and psychologists have shown being gay or lesbian is just as healthy and “normal” as being non-gay. Here are several respected websites (and a citation from Fox News for the doubters) that document this:
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/17/science/sci-gaybrain17
http://psych.fullerton.edu/rlippa/bbc_birthorder.htm
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12465295
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/06/26/brothers=gay.html
http://www.medpagetoday.com/OBGYN/Pregnancy/3641
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080617151845.htm
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=6209976
http://www.apa.org/topics/sorientation.html
Seems to point to a brain defect.
The Churches opposed civil unions claiming it would undermine traditional marriage.
“Jan 18, 2012 at 9:00 amThe Colorado Catholic Conference is urging parishioners to oppose the state’s pending civil uniounions bill” http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/01/18/405822/colorado-catholics-ask-church-goers-to-oppose-civil-unions/ … and still are, I see.
Sorry, but your bait and switch, sandbagging, obstructionism is not working anymore.
Equal rights now !
Or say why you oppose equal treatment under the law, Recon.
That is what this is about.
If you don’t like gay marry don’t marry one.
If you think the State should deny gay families equal rights and protection under the law say that, and why you think that is okay, according to The US Constitution.
But you are not being pro-marriage, when you oppose it for all families.
You’re right, disqusbites. Most of the anti-gay Hate Votes also say that loving, committed same gender American couples cannot have civil unions or ANY legal recognition of our relationships. That means in those states we can be barred from visiting our spouses in hospitals–and that happened just last November in Maryland.
Insult people, that will help.
If anti-gays don’t like being known as anti-gays, all they have to do is stop being anti-gay. It isn’t like that will really change their lives.
Think about how much anti-gays throw insults around. We know how that worked out for them.
”
If anti-gays don’t like being known as anti-gays, all they have to do is stop being anti-gay. It isn’t like that will really change their lives.”
That might seem unreasonable except it is far more logical and easier to do than
what I have heard anti-gays say is their solution to the problem of other people being gay.
Solutions for homosexuality – Stormfrontwww.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35245
Saying that where it appears that you are defending the feelings of an admitted … if not bigot … then surely “hater”, is word that can’t be denied, and it is pretty funny stuff , Jimbob.
Was that your intention ?
How about sarcasm. A bigot “calling a bigot” a bigot.
What about sarcasm ?
A bigot “calling a bigot” a bigot. is ironic .
But what is supporting insults but only if the are politically correct to you ?
“What evidence has been provided that Maine voters have changed their minds about the issue and are now willing to accept same-sex marriages?”
Beside another vote, what evidence would convince the “no compromise” conservatives, exactly ?
D’oh !
Anti-gays always seen to have this fantasy that “everyone” hates and fears LGBT Americans as much as they do, so they can’t accept the fact that a majority of Americans support marriage equality.
“Anti-gays always seen to have this fantasy that “everyone” hates and fears LGBT Americans as much as they do. ” … or should if they were politically correct …
So would THAT thinking be properly called bigotry, or not, everyone ?
No, people smoke cigarettes everyday here in Maine.
PPP surveyed 1,256 Maine voters from March 2nd to
4th. The margin of error for the survey is +/-2.8%. This poll was
not paid for or authorized by any campaign or political organization. PPP
surveys are conducted through automated telephone interviews.
Q8 In general, do you think same-sex marriage should be legal or illegal?
Legal……………………………………………………… 54%
Illegal …………………………………………………….. 41%
Not sure …………………………………………………. 5%
Some responders likely fib on their answer not to come accross as bigots, but regardless, that’s still quite a margin in favor of legalization.
Do some others fib to appear more conservative and politically pure of thought, too, I wonder ?
Was this poll taken in San Franportland ?
We know why you are unable to accept this documentation, timjy.
1256 people 43% DEMS 34% REPS 23% other
PPP stands for Public Policy Polling, a highly respected national polling firm. Here is the link to the poll.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/maine-has-voters-remorse-on-governor-lepage.html#more
Of course the Maine Heritage Policy Center is “highly respected” too, unless their polls don’t turn out the way you want.
I was polled about 3 months ago on this subject. I was asked if I would answer a few questions. The first question was if I was in favor of same sex marriage. With a “no” answer, I was hung up on. Now I don’t recall what organization was polling, but by not finishing the poll and hanging up, it is pretty clear that they were looking for the answers that they wanted.
At least that’s what some anonymous anti-gay poster claims about being polled, and about a right-wing group.
Anti-gays used to be really big on polls, some time ago, when polls showed what they want. But now that polls prove their anti-gay agenda is being rejected and condemned, they don’t want to talk about polls. Unlike anti-gay Hate Votes, anti-gays can’t “throw” polls.
And your comment would be what some anonymous homosexual claims?
Anti-gays always resort to making personal attacks when they can’t refute the facts we present.
LOL…and how was my comment anymore of a personal attack than yours?
At least I admit to being an anonymous anti-homosexual poster. Do you admit to being an anonymous homosexual poster?
You can’t always have it your way you know, Mom should have taught you that.
But, as I can prove, LGBT Americans, with the support of a majority of other Americans, are succeeding in our fight for full equalty. It’s time to list the many great victories Americans have had in our fight to establish full, nationwide marriage equality for LGBT Americans in just the month of February 2012 alone:
1) Washington State has signed full marriage equality into law.
2) Maryland’s state legislature has passed the bill for full marriage equality, and Maryland’s governor will sign it Thursday.
3) New Jersey’s state legislature has passed the bill for full marriage equality. The cowardly governor is ignoring the wishes of a majority of New Jersey voters.
4) The 9th Circuit US Court of Appeals has confirmed the revocation of the 2008 California anti-gay H8te Vote.
5) The 9th Circuit has also rejected the personal attacks anti-gays made on the judge who wrote the original ruling they confirmed.
6) For a second time and in a different Circuit, a federal court has declared DOMA unconstitutional.
7) The United States Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal from the anti-gay cult “NOM” who want a “special right” to violate campaign finance and disclosure laws.
8) Californians support marriage equality by 59% while only 34% still want to violate the US Constitution’s guarantee of Equal Protection Under the Law.
Of course, while most Americans are proud of these achievements, anti-gays view them as such crushing defeats that they are unable to admit these 8 things have happened.
Oh wow…that’s huge.
As Obama says “Good luck with that”.
I wasn’t speaking to the Maine Heritage Policy Center. If you have polling generated from the Maine Heritage Policy Center, please share it.
Did you read the survey and the PPP reviews? The Wall Street Journal is not a leftist organization. On 7/14/11, Politico said, “”In
the three campaigns it has polled thus far this cycle, PPP has been within one point in one special House election, within two points in another, and within three points of calling a gubernatorial primary.”
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Public Policy Polling (PPP) is an American polling firm based in Raleigh, North Carolina. PPP was founded in 2001 by businessman and Democratic pollster Dean Debnam, the firm’s current president and chief executive officer.
I don’t understand your point. Is this guilt by association? If you read the poll, it is clear, it is not biased. Are you suggesting that because the company was founded and is still run by a Democrat, the data is fabricated? Their polling methods have produced reliable results. What is your argument?
Poll after poll after poll, they all show the same results, and anti-gays cant accept these polls, so now they attack the polls. This is consistent with anti-gay posters routinely attacking anyone who doesn’t share their desire to hurt LGBT Americans. We needn’t concern ourselves with the disbelief of the few remaining anti-gays.
Gentlemen, don’t fall their “you can’t believe the polls” con game.
It is a tactic intended to divert the discussion from equal rights and protection under the law
as as provided by the US Constitution.
It works with some, but it requires your co-operation with the dirty trickster’s need to
parse the discussion in the terms of, and fight it from their “culture war” position ,
and comfort zone, instead of dealing with the actual issues.
It is a desperate move on the part of those who can’t win the issue based on the merits of the issue, sure, but hounding them about their foolish deceptive ways, just plays into their claims of being both the oppressed and the majority, too.
So why bother with their “his poll says, her poll says”, games,
when making the poor oppressed, self-pitying, misunderstood, but morally superior,
real majority explain how they can be both at once , is so much more fun. ?
What do perverts and pedophiles have to do with the issue at hand? Oh wait I know… absolutely nothing!
this is what a yes vote would give us.
Too bad no one believes those standard anti-gay lies any more, timjy.
REALLY is that why 30 states have voted this travesty down. Standard lies do tell what lie i have told.This mess started because the good doctors was driven by democrats to make another organization for votes.Too bad these people are not getting the help they desperately cry out for.Not having the ability to tell the difference between friendship and lust is a problem.
And the biggest, most notorious of these Hate Votes, the 2008 California anti-gay H8te Vote, has already been proven to violate the US Constitution and has been revoked.
You can whine and stomp your widdle foot all day and post hate speech like that about LGBT Americans, but you will never fool even one more person to be anti-gay, timjy. Why bother making a fool out of yourself?
The number of Americans who believe the myth that gay people are child molesters has declined substantially. In a 1970 national survey, more than 70% of respondents agreed with the assertions that “Homosexuals are dangerous as teachers or youth leaders because they try to get sexually involved with children” or that “Homosexuals try to play sexually with children if they cannot get an adult partner.”By contrast, in a 1999 national poll, the belief that most gay men are likely to molest or abuse children was endorsed by only 19% of heterosexual men and 10% of heterosexual women. Even fewer – 9% of men and 6% of women – regarded most lesbians as child molesters.
Looking forward to voting for this in November! I really hope Maine can lead the nation yet again on an issue of equality, being the first state to pass civil marriage for same sex couples via citizens referendum would be the right thing to do.
Exactly, lets lead by continuing the not in our state vote.
Are you going to commit a criminal act in violation of our campaign finance and disclosure laws to poison our political process, timjy? Isn’t that the only way anti-gays were able to fool Maine voters in 2009–by cheating? Remember, we know for a fact anti-gays violated our laws.
voting is a criminal act? Was that signed just lately by the great divider ,with the do not dis me or i will lock you up law last friday undercover.
Making secret contributions is against the law. Misusing a church to lobby for a vote is against the law. We know for a fact that happened in 2009. You don’t want to talk about that, I see.
Exactly, lets lead by… following?
How is that leading?
“Public Policy Polling (PPP) is an American polling firm based in Raleigh, North Carolina.[1][2][3] PPP was founded in 2001 by businessman and Democratic pollster Dean Debnam,
Nuff said…
…and polls from Republican polling places focus on issues important to conservatives. What is your point, except that PPP is more likely to focus on issues important to Democrats?
Honestly, I think the Republicans should embrace equal treatment for gays and lesbians, and eliminate this wedge issue the Democrats enjoy. I am a registered Republican and would welcome my party to treat me as our Constitution demands— equally under our laws.
just love the gays thinking dems are going to help them.As soon as they get the messiah reelected just say goodbye.That is the democrats way. look how long they have strung along the needy.
Remember when Bush said he wanted a federal “Hatred And Fear of LGBT Americans” Amendment? The GOP controlled both houses of Congress 2001-2007, but they never gave anti-gays that Hate Amendment, did they? But they DID send home American soldiers on body bags. It’s the GOP that’s stringing along anti-gays, but they will never give you what they want.
They seem to be helping themselves.
Good on them .
Did you read what I actually wrote?
Our equal treatment under the law is not a democrat v republican issue. Upholding the demands our Constitution makes of us is a conservative value.
Sadly, the Republicans are no longer conservatives in the political sense, their party has been hijacked by radical moralistic wingnuts with unworkable financial goals ($2.50/gallon gas as a campaign promise? Really??)
When the Wall St. Journal says they do a good job I would say they are pretty fair in their polling.
Thanks for telling us how much you fear the results of the poll. Psychologists report that the most commonly observed symptom of the mental disorder homophobia is an inability of those so afflicted to accept documentation that contradicts their deep-seated phobia and hatred of LGBT Americans. Maybe this is why you can’t accept the results.
Psychologists Should know under pressure from the congress they started this mess.
All the names they can dream up about people that know this is wrong.Is not going to change the fact it will never be accepted socially.
You really must give up that silly anti-gay fantasy that “it will never be accepted socially.” The Gallup poll of May 5-8, the CNN poll of April 19, the ABC-Washington Post poll of March 18, the AP-National Constitutional Center poll of Aug. 19-22 and the Pew Poll ALL show a clear and rapidly increasing majority of Americans support marriage equality.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147662/first-time-majority-americans-favor-legal-gay-marriage.aspx
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/slim-majority-back-gay-marriage-post-abc-poll-says/2011/03/17/ABhMc7o_story.html
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/08/11/cnn-poll-majority-support-samesex-marriage-rights-time/
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-pew-same-sex-marriage-20111103,0,5491297.story
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/new-poll-americans-on-same-sex-marriage.html
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/22/time-majority-americans-support-gay-marriage/
See, even Fox News confirms that.
Polls on this subject (and others like it) notoriously under-poll opposition. Many people are dishonest to pollsters on politically correct issues like this. The last referendum had many polls showing that the pro gay marriage side winning. We all saw what happened at the polls. This poll, so far out, is garbage.
I understand why you can’t accept this or any of the other polls which also confirm the failure of the anti-gay agenda. You are free to ignore these polls, but other readers deserve to see the facts.
“Polls on this subject (and others like it) notoriously under-poll opposition.”
Is that because the militia compounds have unlisted phone numbers ?
30 States the people voted against homosexual marriage.
And each and every anti-gay Hate Vote has been accompanied by criminal activity committed by anti-gays that poisoned our political process. Do you think saying, “We cheated and we got what we wanted” will help anti-gays fool voters again?
the only way any of this crap got traction was democrats wants votes.Just love how when someone votes for a decent society it is hate or some sort of phobia. How many more grandmas getting thrashed around is it going to take to get the gay vote? How many purchased judges and legislatures are going to be paid off to get this (accepted)? Give it up it is what it is a symptom reaching out for a cure.
Don;t try to blame those dirty anti-gay Hate Votes on the Democratic Party, timjy. We all know these Hate Votes intended to deprive LGBT Americans of the same right to legal marriage everyone else takes for granted were first cooked up by Karl Rove as a GOP Dirty Trick® to get his boss, Bush, elected and re-elected. We know Bush then told the IRS to ignore the churches that violated their IRS 503c3 regulations by cheating on these Hate Votes.
How many voted for Jim Crowe laws, too, Jimbob ?
And where are those Jim Crow laws now, jimbob?
Voting for it and accepting it is two different things.It will never as it should never be accepted.
I have documented that marriage equality is supported by a majority of Americans, right above your post. You simply must give up this anti-gay fantasy that anyone but the few remaining anti-gays don’t accept their family members, friends, neighbors and coworkers who are LGBT.
I don’t accept that point of view, Timmy.
” Psychologists …. started this mess.”?
Paranoid, much there, Timmy ?
How well do you find that to ” be accepted socially.” ?
Doesn’t help when you attack and start name calling.
Just because they get deleted quickly doesn’t mean we didn’t notice the filthy names anti-gays call LGBT Americans all the time. And identifying a mental disorder isn’t calling names, it’s just stating a fact.
exactly, when are they going to treat this just what it is. A mental disorder that needs help not enabled.
Homophobia, the fear and hatred of LGBT Americans, was first identified as a mental disorder in 1953, when the Journal of the National Institutes of Health published an article about it.
Sexual orientation, whether gay or non-gay, has been shown by science to be inborn and unchangeable, and psychologists have shown being gay or lesbian is just as healthy and “normal” as being non-gay. Here are several respected websites (and a citation from Fox News for the doubters) that document this:
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/17/science/sci-gaybrain17
http://psych.fullerton.edu/rlippa/bbc_birthorder.htm
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12465295
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/06/26/brothers=gay.html
http://www.medpagetoday.com/OBGYN/Pregnancy/3641
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080617151845.htm
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=6209976
http://www.apa.org/topics/sorientation.html
Have you ever mentioned that to people you view as politically correct ?
Show us here.
No sweetie, you’re name would have been listed.
You thhhavage, you ;-)
And here we go again! Lots of bigots wishing to see US citizens harmed by our government’s practices, but not ONE rational legal argument among them.
I do admit I’m not an optimist on this one… there are simply too many knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers who enjoy knowing that some citizens are harmed by government… I don’t see this getting better with the shallow minded folks you find on here screaming (not discussing) about gay folks.
This is the NEW Maine Economy: Controversial ballot measures. Put a controversial ballot measure on the ballot and watch the $$$ roll into the state from both sides on advertisements. Regardless of which side wins in November, it will be back on the ballot again in a year or two. Just look at the casino issues that keep coming back time and again.
Good, good. Bring it on so we can vote it down again. Your out side money and news media spin isn’t buying anyone.
So are you operating in fantasy land where the National Organization for Marriage didn’t bankroll the Yes on 1 campaign? Get real.
The anti-gays’ funding from NOM is in trouble, as NOM is still running scared from state authorities. How are anti-gays going to fool voters a second time without all that anti-gay cheating?
And can you DOCUMENT that those who support LGBT violated Maine campaign finance and disclosure laws as WE KNOW NOM did?
Just how far are anti-gays willing to go to poison our political process again? We know that the anti-gay cult NOM violated Maine laws and is still trying to avoid following the law. Other US States are investigating them and other anti-gay cheaters.
It’s amazing how the same folks who pontificate endlessly about how too much government is continually invading their personal lives, are the exact same people who make a job out of harassing their neighbors about who they can marry.
The hypocrisy is ridiculous.
They are into the government getting between a woman and her doctor, demanding unneeded medical procedures and so increasing the cost of health care, too, I noticed.
And despite the record, they still claim you can cut taxes and balance the budget, too.
There are just two examples of how if they can’t have things two different ways at once,
they have nothing.
How come that is not discussed more surprises me, but it does have a place in any political discussion they would cast as right/left, culture war, or class warfare, relative to their
credibility and how the poor misunderstood conservatives claim they are both the oppressed and the rightful majority, all at once.
Polls on this subject (and others like it) notoriously under-poll opposition. Many people are dishonest to pollsters on politically correct issues like this. The last referendum had many polls showing that the pro gay marriage side winning. This poll, so far out, is garbage.
Can you document any of that, Matthew? If polls were actually that consistently inaccurate, pollsters would have responded to any such proof. Are you sure you aren’t just upset at all the proof that Americans increasingly reject and condemn the anti-gay agenda? And please don’t point to Hate Votes as proof, because we all know anti-gays have cheated in all such anti-gay Hate Votes.
It is a well documented fact that people are dishonest on politically correct issues, like gay rights, affirmative action, illegal immigration and so forth. There is even a term for it known as the Bradley effect. Look it up. Almost every time this issue, or before it gay rights, has been polled it under-performs on the actual ballot. A fair # of people do not tell the truth. Google polls for the 2009 ME referendum and then compare them to the actual result.
You say “it’s well documented,” but you didn’t bother to document it? Okay, we’ll just pretend you didn’t make that unproven claim, and move on. I understand now you can’t accept the many polls that show something you don’t like, but I’m not posting facts to convince you, I’m documenting facts for all other readers so they will see those facts.
Let’s look at what has happened since anti-gays were able to throw an anti-gay hate vote in Maine but lost an anti-gay hate vote in WA State:
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/07/27/new-study-support-for-gay-marriage-grew-faster-in-past-two-years
“According to the report, polling data from sources including Gallup, CNN/ORC, ABC/Washington Post, and Pew Research Center indicate that average support for legalizing gay marriage grew at a rate of approximately 1 percent per year between 1996 and 2009, but the rate increased to 5 percent growth per year from 2009 to 2011. “That’s actually a 500 percent increase in the rate of change,” Benenson said at a press conference. “We rarely see that kind of upward spike in support around an issue.”
Because of that growth, several national polls show a majority of Americans now support legalizing gay marriage, including Gallup (53 percent), Public Religion Research Institute (51 percent), CNN/ORC (51 percent), and ABC/Washington Post (53 percent).”
Please note US News & World Report is a conservative publication.
That still doesn’t change the fact that SSM has yet to win anywhere on a ballot. It has lost over 30 times in less than 10 years. That is a fact. The only polls that count are in the voting booth.
We all know these Hate Votes intended to deprive LGBT Americans of the same right to legal marriage everyone else takes for granted were first cooked up by Karl Rove as a GOP Dirty Trick® to get his boss, Bush, elected and re-elected. We know Bush then told the IRS to ignore the churches that violated their IRS 503c3 regulations by cheating on these Hate Votes.
Remember, Maine isn’t the only US State where anti-gays have been caught committing criminal acts to throw these anti-gay Hate Votes you like so much, Matthew. In the most notorious Hate Vote of all, the 2008 California H8te Vote that actually took away the established right LGBT Californians had to legal marriage, we saw that anti-gays cheated to throw the vote. The federal judge who revoked the H8te Vote had in his possession a letter written by Catholic bishops to Mormon leaders in which they both agreed to violate California campaign finance laws to throw the H8te Vote by making secret, illegal cash and in-kind contributions to the H8te Vote. The letter serves as proof positive they knew they were breaking the law; the letter itself is an act of criminal collusion. We know the Mormons made the Hate Videos shown on TV, but they refused to report these in-kind contributions as required by law. We know Mormons operated secret, illegal call centers in Idaho and Utah from which they made deceptive calls, because a million Californians reported these deceptive calls where anti-gays claimed a “yes” vote would support marriage equality. We know Mormons were told by their leaders to make large, secret contributions to the H8te Vote under pain of excommunication, and we know Mormons sent their church members from out of state. Mormon leaders were required by California law to report these contributions, but they refused.
Do you plan to commit a criminal act to throw the vote this time, Matthew? Did you help NOM violate campaign finance and disclosure laws to throw the anti-gay Hate Vote in 2009?
Washington State had an anti-gay Hat Vote in 2009 also. That vote was rejected by voters. Arizona rejected an anti-gay Hate Vote as well. I guess you don’t like to be reminded of any of these facts, huh?
Absolutely no rights have been deprived from anyone.We all live under the same rules.Some just can not accept it.
No, LGBT Americans DO NOT have the SAME right to legal marriage as mixed-sex couples do. The Iowa State Supreme Court unanimously established marriage equality in April 2009, and this is their answer to “You have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex as anyone else”:
“It is true the marriage statute does not expressly prohibit gay and lesbian persons from marrying; it does, however, require that if they marry, it must be to someone of the opposite sex. Viewed in the complete context of marriage, including intimacy, civil marriage with a person of the opposite sex is as unappealing to a gay or lesbian person as civil marriage with a person of the same sex is to a heterosexual. Thus, the right of a gay or lesbian person under the marriage statute to enter into a civil marriage only with a person of the opposite sex is no right at all. Under such a law, gay or lesbian individuals cannot simultaneously fulfill their deeply felt need for a committed personal relationship, as influenced by their sexual orientation, and gain the civil status and attendant benefits granted by the statute. Instead, a gay or lesbian person can only gain the same rights under the statute as a heterosexual person by negating the very trait that defines gay and lesbian people as a class-their sexual orientation.”
http://www.iowacourtsonline.org/Supreme_Court/Varnum_v_Brien/Supreme_Court_Ruling/
Why bother repeating that standard anti-gay lie, timjy? Everyone knows better.
Demonstrating the “ick factor” and nothing more.
Not one of the people who have voted against it can offer a rational reason why. They are simply prejudiced…
You’re right. It’s generally because people are ashamed and afraid to show their bigotry.
Can’t wait to see it pass.
All we have to do to vote in marriage equality is to vote, and to answer the deceptions anti-gays tell with the facts.
Thank you for your support. By defending your fellow Americans who are LGBT, you will protect your own equality as well. Who would anti-gays try to hurt NEXT if they got to hurt LGBT Americans the way they want?
This has become too much! It’s pretty evident that the wusses that are sent to Augusta are so concerned about voting properly — i.e. possibly killing their chances of re-election — that they dodge the bullet and “send it out to the voters”. Weaklings!
I don’t think I have ever seen a citizens referendum get voted on by the state house, they always send it to the voters.
Yup, cowards, like the governor of New Jersey, vetoing the marriage equality bill and pandering to the few remaining anti-gays even though 57% of NJ voters approve of marriage equality.