SANFORD, Maine — A group of American Indians is urging officials in Sanford to change the local high school’s nickname, which they call offensive.
The Maine Indian Tribal State Commission and representatives of Maine tribes met with residents Wednesday to tell them the name “Redskins” has negative connotations.
They say it was used as a derogatory term when bounties were offered for killing Indians.
The Journal Tribune reports that some of the 50 residents at the meeting say the name is a term of respect.
Commission Chairwoman Jamie Bissonette Lewey says she believes those people, but added it means something different to American Indians.
The school committee is scheduled to vote May 7 on whether to retire the nickname.
Sanford is the last Maine high school called the Redskins
We need to start calling graham crackers graham cookies.
I am offended by the term “cracker”.
C’mon, really.
Lets make a nice cartoony characature of an old, white slave master with whip in hand and rename the BHS team “The Crackers”. It wouldn’t be long before that irked folks, I guarantee.
“Redskins” is NOT a term of respect.
And it’s not offensive! This crap is what is wrong with this country!
If you think its not offensive, go on over to the reservation and start calling people that to their face. I dare you.
ooooh i love a good dare!
… and exactly how is removing derogatory language from government entities “what’s wrong wit this country”? Exactly how does that work to our detriment?
“christian” or any variance of the word/belief offends muslims.
Shall we make every “christian” academy in maine just “academies”?
should we remove “god” from any publication that might offend someone?
how about this, I’m sure you’ve heard of the derogatory term “whop” when referring to italians.
I should sue burger king for having a burger called the “whopper”
Totally insensitive and morally wrong for them to name a burger after a derogatory term for an italian immigrant!
Several things:
1. The word “Christian” does not offend Muslims
.2. If a school team were named the Sanford Whops [sic], that name would be changed.
3. The word “whopper” is unconnected to the derogatory reference to Italians. You can look that up yourself.
4. You need to ask yourself why you are fighting the name change so hard.
5. If it’s so inoffensive, take up WVOM’s proposal and try out that word to some Native Americans’ faces. If you think that may not go well, then you’ll agree with the rest of us that the team name will have to go.
You’re welcome!
Nice try, the only whopper here is your feeble attempt to connect a burger to a put-down.
No, it’s people like you that is wrong with this country.
Respect is a good thing. Disrespect is not. I, for one, don’t want to go back to the time when whites ruled and minorities were not treated as equals or in some cases even treated like they were not human. Teaching our students to respect and honor all cultures is a good thing, but I guess you prefer one culture disrespect another?
As I understand it, many believe that the term redskin can be reference to bloody Native Americans who were considered a “prize” if killed.
Christians would have a hay day if a team chose Jesus as the mascot and called themselves the “Christers” and if they had a cartoonish character of Christ with a mascot that comes onto the floor pretending to bless someone or baptise them with Christian organ music playing in the background.
“Cracker” refers to the whip crackers who herded cattle in the deep South, believe it or not.
Then you agree that we shouldn’t name any school teams “The Crackers.”
I’m glad you agree with the Maine Indian Tribal Commission on this issue. You’re on the right side, this time. ;)
thanks for the laugh!
Who is stirring up this affront to freedom of speech? Nothing but a slippery slope.
So its okay for a government entity (school district) to use a racially-charged term to identify itself?
And if you don’t think “Redskin” is offensive, I dare you to head out to a reservation and start calling people that to their face. See how well that goes over.
Zing!
Well, see the thing is that they’re not calling people on reservations “redskins”
they are calling a sports teams and mascots “redskins”
how is that in any way offensive?
Beacuse it refers to a living, breathing person who may not want to be your little mascot
which person? I’d like to meet HIM personally and find out why this particular person is offended by a cartoonish mascot which may or may not resemble him in particular.
well? who is it? who does the mascot look like?
Read my response above. Did I say it was OK? BTW if you want, we will meet and go to the Penobscot reservation and ask them. Then you and I would know. Some things bother people more than others, right now you take the cake.
See, bartneally, I told you yesterday that you’re bigotted. You sure are missing the coherent thought process, now that’s a fact. How about they call themselves “The Gooks” or the “The Ni**ers”? How well would that go over? “Free speech” my left patootie.
These are our neighbors and friends telling us that the term Redskin is offensive to them. Why not listen? How does that infringe on your freedom? I would think it would give you a chance to be kind but, then again, bigots aren’t known for kindness, now are they?
LOL!!! “the gooks”
sounds like a movie that i’d really like to see!
Here’s a little scenario for ya letterreader:
Imagine that you’re standing on a beach, enjoying a beautiful day.
Suddenly, someone comes up behind you and says that you’re offending them by standing where you are and asks you to move.
So in your liberal mindset you figure, okay, why not, no big deal. So you move.
It happens again, someone comes and sits behind where you’ve just moved to, and again asks you to move. so you do.
Eventually, you’re no longer on the beach, you’re standing in a parking lot, having offended everyone, and with nothing left to enjoy.
Your syllogism is illogical. Standing on the beach is not in the same category as using an offensive name.
That doesn’t even make sense.
Worst. Analogy. Ever.
This analogy makes absolutely no sense but is a good indication of the fragmented thought process of some people.
Your little scenario has nothing to do with using offense names and mascots associated with the group of people who were almost completely annihilated by those who came to this continent after them.
oh poor you, there are hardly any racist terms you can openly use anymore… What’s a guy to do?
Luv it. Thanks!
I am part Mic Mac. This is a freedom of speech issue to me, but thanks, I guess, for the lecture. My paternal grandfather’s last name was Haskell, formerly Hes kell. BTW using the slurs in print may make you feel good, but it should be avoided.
In an ironic turn, it’s the very people that the Town of Sanford is “honoring” by using the term that refers to the brutal skinning of Native Americans to collect a bounty.
Is that the same reasoning they use, not likeing the word Warriors also. Things are too politicaly correct.
Here are some cold hard facts for you— NOTE THE 3RD OFT MENTIONED NEVER PROVEN
According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the term “redskin” came from the reddish skin color of some Native Americans, as in the terms red Indian and red man, and the OED cites instances of its usage in English dating back to the 17th century (and cites a use of red in reference to skin color from 1587). Multiple theories fight for prominence as to the true historical origin of the word ‘redskin.’ One theory, mentioned above, is that the term was meant as merely a physical indicator, similar to the words “white” and “black” for Caucasians and Africans, respectively. Another theory holds that it was first used by Native Americans during the 1800s as a way of distinguishing themselves from the ever-growing white population.
An often mentioned third but not proven[1] [2]origin involves the bloody skins (red-skins) of Native people as “prizes,” in which they would be scalped after battle and their skins bought and sold in local towns.[3] To date there is no historical documentation or evidence to support this theory. Another theory is that the term “Red Indian” originated to describe the Beothuk people of Newfoundland who painted their bodies with red ochre, and was then generalized to North American indigenous people in general.(wIKAPEDIA)
Never proven and recorded in writing by non-Natives. That doesn’t mean that this information wasn’t passed down in the oral tradition. It is fact that there once was a bounty on the scalps/skins of Penobscots and Passamaquoddies.
Some terms like Braves, Warriors and tribal names are looked upon by some as honoring the native peoples. North Dakota Sioux is one and the university is currenty embroiled in a fight to save their logo. The two local factions of Sioux are split and sometimes a thing like this can do no good. Rehashing some of the shameful behavior of our past is not productive. We may lose rights trying to out think every thing and you will never run out of some people who are just up to no good.
The cartoon character of a Native on their logo is not honoring Native Americans, it is exploiting them.
Depends on whom you talk to. Some may agree with you. That particular logo, to me, is handsome and definitely not a cartoon. However, the Cleveland Indian’s mascot Chief Wahoo is bothersome.
It is a cartoon.
So you’d be OK with calling a team the Sanford N*ggers or the Sanford Chinx?
You assume too much sir.
Ah, so it’s OK to name a team the slang word for one particular race of people, but not other slang words for people of other races?
Again, you are an assumer.
Either you do or you don’t.
Of course I do not like name calling. I also dislike people speaking for me, now lay off.
This isn’t news. The same group did the same thing two years ago.
And Sanford is the last hold out.
yup, and when TABOR or gay marraige comes back around, every time, that’s not news either?
Nice try in supressing the dialog.
I m offended by the word Cajun. It is Acadian.
Alas, it’s a name us Acadians came up with ourselves.
What else you got?
;)
I am of Cherokee descent & the term redskin does not offend me, as I am proud of what I am. I look at the naming of school mascots after native americans as a way of honoring us for the proud heritage we have. They apparently don’t have any meaningful heroes in their ancestry to look up to.
Good call. Im originally from OldTown where they changed the name of the OldTown Indians to the coyotes. I thought that was going alittle too far. That didnt discredit the indians at all. These people from the tribes arent thinking this through. I cant wait til they try to change the name of the Washinton Redskin football team.
They’ve tried to change the Washington Redskins name for decades. Haven’t gotten very far.
A famous seafood restaurant down by the river in DC, Hogates, used to serve all meals with “redskins”, that is red-skinned potatoes. I don’t think they call them that anymore.
Any such criticisms,especially for local schools, should come from neighboring Native American groups who feel they are currently being slighted.
I always considered the Old Town Indians as a sign of respect not degradation. I think the Liberals have gone over board.
Unless you are a Native American, that doesn’t mean too much. They don’t feel respected.
Well, it is just my opinion and I may be in the minority I always thought it was a compliment.
Why not call the team the Old Town Whities? Christers? N*ggers?
Then what is wrong with warriors? Which people seem to have the same problem with, it could mean a whole array of diffrent warriors. I believe when they originally called them the Old Town Indians it was a compliment, but with so many Liberals becoming Politically correct they have made a meanint that was not intended. As far as I am concerned I was born here just like everyone else, so I am just as Native American as anyone. I think anything before American is actually a racist term.
I have no problem with calling a team the warriors as long as a cartoon character of a native american is used not for the logo or mascot and as long as the songs/drums are not impersonated.
It’s not liberals being politically correct…it is people from a specific cultural background saying that this practice is offensive, hurtful and is not respectful.
What other identified race is included in a sport’s team name?
Your words speak for themselves when it comes to racism.
How about the Fighting Irish? That can give the wrong conotation, should I be in an uproar that it gives the wrong view of the Irish? You are right about my words, they do speak for themselves actually their is suppose to be Indian on my Canadian Ancestry and if so I would be just as proud of that.
If there are Irish people who find that term offensive and wanted it removed, I would fully support them.
So you’re cool with Atlanta Braves mascot? You don’t think that mocks your ancestry just a little bit?
What’s wrong with the braves mascot?
He looks like he’s mockingly laughing at the white man.
Well said. I always thought it was a way of honoring the Indian heritage, not insulting it. Glad you agree.
YES I am and the Cleveland INDIANS as well!
You don’t have a clue what red skin means do you?I’ll tell you what that means,whitey peeled the skin off the Natives for a bounty and that’s all right?That’s a way to honor their proud heritage?
It’s obviously offensive same as something like whiteskins or brownskins would be.
Hmm. What do you think Caucasians were calledby the Indians?
It was probably something offensive. Does that make it right in your small mind?
The white devil at least thats what my freinds parents always called their white friends.
Right. And how many “Paleskins” sports teams are there?
You get that you’re actually making the Native Americans’ arguments for them. right?
Oh, you didn’t. How embarrassing for you. ;)
doesn’t matter what they WERE called, it matters what a government entity is calling them NOW.
Paratroopers used to yell “Geronimo” when they jumped…..wonder what is PC today.
What’s your point? Slave owners used to yell “N—-!” when they wanted service. Clearly not appropriate today.
It is a question not an endorsement…….. Whats your point? trying to put a racist twist on it?
I consider African American racist, you are either an American or not. Most of us would have to be caalled mongrels. Even if you look at some Americans and the color of their skin, they are hardly black or red.
We can’t help it if you are ashamed of being a mongrel. My bet is that your ancestors weren’t slaves and didn’t come from Africa.
I am not ashamed of any of my heritages. It is also not my fault that Africans gave their own people up to the slave traders. It is also not my fault what anyone forbears did. I am as proud of my American heritage as I am my Canadian, Irish, Scotch, English, Wales, Jewish ancenstry, and maybe something else along the way. I am sure Native Americans came from the Monguls or some other heritage.
To say that the decedents of slaves are racist because they want to call themselves African Americans is absurd.
Not in the least, because the fact is African American, Latino Americans or Native American and others get set apart in the Federal Government. Now why woud that be? To get preferencial Treatmen, I wonder?
Is t really necessary in America to set those with other decendancies apart. Why do not you have Europren Americans, or Jewish Americans. Also remember that Africans committed their own to slavery.
“Before the Middle Passage began a slave trade already existed in Africa, but this slave trade was much different than the one that Europe would create for the Africans as the Atlantic World developed. The difference was, in Europe the slaves were dehumanized and viewed as property while in Africa, humans were still humans. Also some of the reasons that the Africans were enslaved in their own country traced back to their current status. If a person had committed a crime, were prisoners of war, or had a debt that was unpaid then they were enslaved by a greater force.” From http://cghs.dadeschools.net/african-american/europe/slave_trade.htm
I have never once been set apart by the Federal government. If there is any setting apart of native peoples it is because of broken treaties. Many tribes have been compensated for broken treaties, not because they are Native. After a government invades a geographical area, captures it and signs a treaty with a group of people, they should honor the treaty instead of modifying it whenever they see fit, mostly to acquire more property or riches. There are some who do identify themselves as Jewish Americans and then there are Asian Americans.
You are right as far as Treaties,though I was not around and as with the slave issues. The tribes have been compensated for past atrocities, and they still reap the benefits of grant monies as with everyone else of millions of dollars of years. I do not see anyone complaining about taking money. Also most forms I read identify a lof of diffrent ethnic origins. No different than everytime you call an agenccy you have to push one for English, and two for Spanish.
In the coastal community where I live, the townspeople have benefit from hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of grant money. The fire department was built almost completely with grant monies. Hundreds of residents have benefited over the years from grants to update their septic systems at no cost to them or the town. The library has been updated with grant money. The medical center was built using grant money. Improvements to the school or new programs offered through the school come in part from grant money.
I personally have not benefited much at all from the grants that the tribe has obtained. Most tribal members who live off reservation have little or no access to or benefit from grant money given to the tribe.
Because someone embraces their race, the history of their race and the pride that comes with cultural identity, that does not make them racist as you implied about people calling themselves Native American or African American.
If any of you are italian, I want you to join me!
I’ll be bringing a lawsuit against a certain burger establishment for their use of the word “whopper”
I am italian, and as you all know, a “whop” is a derogatory word for italian immigrant!
see how this works?
All this politically correct nonsense is turning america into lukewarm water, where we used to have culture and freedom we now have a nation of lawsuits. Where we’re now forced to be bland and generic. Our country has become mundane with these endless lawsuits.
1. The word “whopper” has no connection to the derogatory term for Italians (which you spelled incorrectly by the way).
Not that I believe you can read, but voila! http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=whopper
2. That is likely the stupiest thing written on the IntarWeb today, which is really saying something.
Epic, truly Epic Fail.
Using your same internet reference:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=redskin&searchmode=none
redskin “American Indian,” 1690s, from red (1) + skin (n.). Red as the skin color of Native Americans is from 1580s; red man is from 1580s.
A school chooses to be represented by a Native American symbol, and Maine Indians are offended? I would consider it an honor. Of all the imagery a school could choose…
Yeah, Sanford was going to go for “The Blackies” or “The Coloreds” but they thought they were too edgy. They went for “Redskins” because there are fewer Native Americans left to complain.
How about the “Wetbacks”? Mexicans are only here illegally during the summer time!
Many believe that redskin refers to the bloody skins of Native Americans after they were killed for a bounty. You think it is a term of endearment?
Don’t no one call ‘da bar I hang out at a “Honk(e)y Tonk” no more! I’s offended!
I just want to know why the word “redskins” is offensive but the word “Indian / Indians” is not. The fact that they are NOT Indians ( IE from India) and that is the bastardized word that has been used so long they accept it? They are Passamaquoddy or Sioux or such. The word Indians comes form people thinking this was India they had found a short route to.
Every word spoken is “offensive” to someone. The fact you make a stink about simply gives them more power.
Neither one are appropriate for a school “mascot”. Would you like to be somebody’s mascot?
Give me a break! Who the heck are yo to say that? They can have any mascot they want!
So if the reservation school decided that their mascot was a cartoon character named “Whitey” you’d be OK with that? Or if they used Jesus as a mascot and had someone dressed as Jesus or the Pope pretending to baptize or bless someone?
Methinks you doest protest too much.
If you’re not careful, Native Americans will become even more irelevant to American history as more and more references are removed for offending someone.
No worry of that. We are stronger (and better educated) than ever. We grow more and more relevant the further that the country spirals out of control. Many are returning to the old ways, many are returning to the ways of the people who first walked here.
Actually, I’d feel honored to have a school’s mascot be the “Entrepreneurs”. How would anyone find that offensive?
It’s a mascot. It’s not like Sanford is hurting anyone.
And until Indian Island is renamed Coyote Island, it’s still the Old Town Indians to me.
That is just plain BS!
When the citizens of Sanford heard from the ME Indian Tribal State Commission that the term redskins is offensive to Native People, they should have relinquished their argument that it is a term of respect. This is the 21st century and it’s time to stop hiding behind cultural ignorance. If the team was named the Sanford Niggers, no one would have a hard time understanding why people of African American descent would be offended and want the name changed. Why do non-Indians still cling to derogatory and racist terms when referring to Native Americans?! Why is that still legal?! And what message does this send the students whose schools use Native American mascots and derogatory terms for Native People?
On another note, did anyone else see the irony when the Old Town High School changed its team name to the Old Town Coyotes from the Old Town Indians? What do coyotes and Native Americans in Maine have in common? There is a bounty on the former, and a former bounty on the latter. Both have been reviled at different times in Maine’s history.
Sanford, do the right thing and find a new name for your team.
And “cougar” now refers to an older woman dating a younger man.
Gotta’ keep up with the latest slang these days…
Yep.
So BDN, really sick of you pulling my posts! What I stated on here was not offensive and not derogatory. I know you are a liberal news paper, buy last I knew I fought for this country for 13 years to have the right to say what I did.
Not saying I agree, but this isn’t the government, the BDN can censor you if they want.
Then they need to look at a lot more of these posts on here and not just mine like every exchange I try to have on here. So sick of cry babies who can’t handle anything and are so GD politically correct! And if people don’t like what I wrote then don’t read it and don’t comment on it.
Lot of people on the “war path” today………….Hope that word doesn’t offend someone.
But then aren’t you complaining about the same exact thing you’re doing? Couldn’t someone say to you, stop being a cry baby, if you don’t like the BDN, don’t read it and don’t comment on its website?
Nope because I really don’t give a crap what people say back to me! Could care less if this paper ever sold one copy. But freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. Like I said in my post that was removed I fought for this country for 13 years so people on here have the right to say what they want.
Freedom of speech means the government can’t censor you. A website owner can censor what you post on their webpage though.
Funny how some get all mixed up about freedom of speech.
I demand the NBA team in Boston change their name and end the use that racist, hateful logo they use. A fat, pot belly smoker, probably half drunk. Stop the Madness! Stop the Hate!
Was genocide attempted on the Celts and almost achieved by our government ( many who were so-called Christians)?
What does that have to do with this? The Irish, of course, have a long, long history of being discriminated against and yes, are the victims of an attempted genocide. Tell me TrueNative, are you 1/4th, 1/8th or 1/16th native american?
Did the attempted genocide take place in this country, by our government? Were the Celts the residents of this continent before they were almost completely annihilated? Is the name Celt associated with their bloodied skins for which there was a bounty?
Are you 1/4th, 1/8th or 1/16th white?
Yup, you’re right, that is a derogatory representation of an irishman. I wish they’d change it too.
Who I feel for are the down trodden, poor Scandanavian people. We need to put an end to that racist NFL team in Minnesota. Can’t we all just get along?
Yes, we can get along when one group listens to another group and refrains from doing something offensive to the other group. Respect is essential in getting along.
I’m kind of offended that people find everything offensive! geez
Way to promote racism. Today it seems that most young people are far more tolerant then any previous generation, but nearly every day, some one is screaming their being wronged by white people. If everyone would cool off and let things go a bit, they’d realize most people aren’t racist. But force racism issues upon those same tolerant you kids and see if they develop some stereo types.
You want to be ___insert race here__Americans, give up any special laws or rulings. The lynch mob in FL is going to all ends of the Earth to prove hispanics are “white” so they can claim the killing of Trayvon Martin was a hate crime. Affirmative Action continues to prevent the best candidate from being hired and promoted in police and fire departments across the country. As a person who was brought up to believe all people are individuals and should be measured on their own accomplishments, it took me years of watching the news and minorities to be convinced I’m a racist because people that look like me once were (OK many still are.)
The more attention you bring the subject the worse it gets, not better.
My Great, Great, Great Grandfather fought the British during our revolution. Every Fall and Winter I have to see my proud legacy demeaned and turned into a cartoon character by that NFL team that plays just outside Boston. Stop the Hate! No Justice! No Peace!
I went to a school where the teams players were called Warriors. They had to change the name. It was not meant to be offensive but, Honorable. I guess next we will have to stop calling people who serve in uniform, “Soldier”. Or, Officer!
I have no problem with a team being called the warriors as long as there is not a mascot or cartoon of a Native American.
Personally think Sanford should keep the mascot. The only time I am not proud of my Indian heritage is when the “Native Americans” use what happened to our ancestors as a crutch.
Crap, with a capital C.