BANGOR, Maine — Less than four days after their one-year contract expired, representatives of Eastern Maine Medical Center and its nurses union are gearing up for a return to the bargaining table.
The nurses had planned to conduct a news conference Monday afternoon prior to a planned membership meeting at the Bangor Motor Inn. Instead, they made a member of their negotiating team available for questions and comments.
In separate interviews Monday, representatives from both sides of the bargaining table expressed similar goals.
Negotiators from the hospital and the union, which represents roughly 850 nurses, both said they want to see a new contract in place — preferably a three-year agreement — and both believe that goal can be achieved. Both sides acknowledge that while strides have been made, more work needs to be done to ensure that EMMC maintains a safe atmosphere for patients and employees alike.
One key area in which the two sides are not seeing eye to eye is pay.
The nurses, who did not receive a cost of living increase in the contract that expired at midnight Thursday, are seeking 3 percent increases for each of the three years of their next contract — or a 5 percent increase if only a one-year agreement is reached, Jennifer Sedgwick, a member of the nurses union’s negotiating team, said Monday.
The union also is seeking benefit improvements, including an additional pay step and more pay for nurses who are called in to work outside of their regular hours.
In a contract update posted on its website Monday, EMMC said its “last, best, final offer” called for 3 percent the first year and 2 percent for each of the subsequent two years and a 3 percent increase in the event that only a one-year pact is achieved.
In the update, the hospital said that given uncertainties in what it can expect in reimbursements from federal and state government programs, “we feel our offers are as much as we should offer.”
In an interview Monday evening, EMMC spokeswoman Jill McDonald and Debbie Richards, interim chief nursing officer and a member of the hospital negotiations team, noted that roughly 60 percent of EMMC’s patient volume is covered by government payers, namely Medicare and MaineCare.
“These programs don’t pay us what it costs to provide the care so on those patients, we lose money,” McDonald said. “That’s why we have been focused so hard on cost containment and, frankly, cost reduction, over the past two years.
“We’ve been quite successful in some areas. We’ve brought costs down by looking at our processes, working together with employees in those areas to identify better ways to do it,” she said. She added, however, that more needs to be done in that area.
The nurses also want the hospital to install a metal detector to screen people coming into the hospital’s Emergency Department and they want the hospital to hire more “resource nurses,” who would fill in for nurses who are dealing with acute patients, are out on vacation or family medical leave or otherwise are tied up, Sedgwick said.
Those are two areas that hospital officials say need to be addressed outside of a contract.
“While these things are worthy discussions to have, the position of the negotiating team is that none of them belong in a contract,” McDonald said. “It’s not the place for them to be.”
“Staffing remains a management function,” Richards said, adding that such decisions are based on patient loads. “About two years ago, we had a dip in our volume, but over the last year we’ve seen an increase in our volume and we’ve responded by adding 32 additional nursing positions,” she said, adding that those new positions primarily were added in the emergency, critical care and telemetry departments.
She also said the hospital has approval for 22 “overhire” positions, or staffers above the typical authorized number, who can step in when a department experiences turnover, is faced with patients requiring acute care and similar situations.
McDonald and Richards on Monday outlined a number of safety measures that EMMC has put into place, including beefed up security staffing, cameras and a metal detecting wand and door locks, among other things.
Though the one-year pact provided a period of stability, tensions between hospital officials and unionized nurses have flared up again during this round of talks, which began eight weeks ago.
With regard to the metal detector, the two said that is under consideration.
McDonald, however, said that a metal detector would not be useful in most instances involving aggressive patients or visitors. While weapons and other dangerous items do occasionally make their way into the hospital, most cases involve the use of “hands, feet and teeth.”
The one-year contract that expired was ratified last May after eight months of often contentious negotiations. In addition to marathon contract talks, there was picketing, a strike, a lockout and threats of a second strike and lockout.
Among the issues resolved in that agreement were the transfers of nurses among departments, the workload for charge nurses and health benefits. Not addressed were staffing ratios, which nurses said at the time was a major sticking point.
The next round of contract talks between the Bangor hospital and members of Unit 1 of the Maine State Nurses Association/National Nurses United is set for Thursday morning.
The nurses at EMMC are great.
That being said, their behavior (picketing, threatening strikes, and overt threats to patient safety) make them look like a bunch of petulant children. Unions had their place in a time where worker conditions were abhorrent but now they are a bastion for greed and corruption.
Unions are bad for business, the economy, the employees, and in this instance the patients of a fine hospital. Sad.
Yes, we should disband all labor unions and add more members to the billionaire’s club. Does one dollar an hour sound fair to you, or could your employer have a bigger yacht if you would work for less? This incessant need for workers to have a living wage and healthcare is starting to cut into the junkets to St. Moritz. Do you realize that private union membership is down to a lousy 7% in this country? Do you think it is any coincidence that the wages are stuck in the early 90’s? I have worked hard every day of my working life, you will never convince me that the working men and women of America should not be able to stick together, period. I am sure that when Daddy left you the family business he told you that unions were evil. What he forgot to mention is that the idea for the greatest nation on earth was conceived by members of the world’s oldest union, the brotherhood of Masons, of which I am a proud member. It is where the united in UNITED STATES comes from.
Typical union mentality – business owners are the devil. Employees have the power and freedom to work wherever and for whomever they wish. If someone is underpaid and unhappy in these United States they have the ability to take it on down the road and attempt to be happy elsewhere. You make a union-less society sound akin to slavery – which just further shows your ignorance and delusion.
Union workers tend to be overpaid and under-productive, if I were a business owner I would close my business before my workers ever unionized.
WalMart, America’s largest under employer and cheapest s.o.b on the planet appreciate your support .
So go unionize WalMart then
Jd i do not think you get it Walmart can almost make laws . GDP bigger than a lot of countries . They want high unemployment to keep the price of the biggest commodity down Labor. They make more off people on welfare and unemployment than the do the middle class and the middle class pays for welfare. Anything to get rid of unions and hurt the working people to benefit the well to do. if not why with $100 billion the Walmart owners hard to they not pay more at least in profitable stores? It is call greed.
Bob I think it might be you that doesn’t get it.
If people believe the sentiment that AVOICEINTHECROWD expressed about WalMart, then employees should attempt to unionize it. That is all I said and you respond like a scared little rabbit that “Walmart can almost make laws”…”GDP bigger
than a lot of countries”.
And what does “they want high unemployment to keep the price
of the biggest commodity down” have to do with organizing a union to represent the employees?
“They make more off people on
welfare and unemployment than the do the middle class and the middle
class pays for welfare.” So where are the people on welfare and unemployment supposed to shop in your opinion?
Before WalMart there was Zayres, Kings, KMart, 5&10, etc….so why are people afraid of WalMart?
They are too big ran a lot of small shops out of town . Bribed Mexican officials . It would not take a whole lot to get the right rep to sponcer a bill and get it passed. Just saying. They hire a lot more part time help than most companies do or did to keep from paying benefits with enough profit margin they could afford to do more but are too greedy.
LOL Bob…If WalMart isn’t treating their employees well and providing benefits, etc…let them unionize. All you are offering are excuses for why they cannot.
I am not sure where you pull this crap out about unions but I can tell you I paid for my daughter’s legal fees against a very large non-union employer that abused her to the point she had to leave. And you think you don’t need unions now?
Her employer “abused” her? were law enforcement authorities contacted and were the offending parties prosecuted?
I can verbally abuse you. That doesn’t mean it reaches the level of criminal threatening. A civil case is another matter.
Yes, In a civil case you cay sue for anything. Like, “My boss was mean to me when he told me to do do my job and actually work. He should have said please when asking me to work.”
Yes I hope you would close your business . I wish walmart would do the same. If walmart did close people would still need food clothing etc. Smaller stores would spring back to life . It would not be a net job loss.
Perhaps if the State were able to pay for the services it asks for at a fair price it wouldn’t be as much of an issue.
Agreed. But, why does it seem that every time the come up short, it is always the worker who has to make up the difference?
100% agree. To “balance” the budget, the state will often decide not to pay it’s bill. And by law, they cover a huge number of people and mandate an unfunded level of care. So the rest of us and the staff pay…
Sounds like something right out of the Conservative Playbook! What’s wrong with a 3% cost of living adjustment and safer working conditions? If it wasn’t for the union, do you think the 6 digit income managers would give this out of the goodness of their hearts?
So, a 3% raise will ensure patient safety,is that what you just stated?
If you read the article, you would see that was another of the negotiating points. Nurses often get beat on by patients, especially in E.R.s They want more security measures.
Problem is the state and federal governments are paying what they are supposed to pay the hospitals annually. If you havent noticed we are in a tough economy. My hospital just laid off 11 people and slashed its budget by $2 million dollars just to make ends meet. We did not receive a cost of living increase for this year. Nurses are great but they are going to pricing themselves out of a job.
From what I understand after reading last years turmoil is that the nurses make about 40.00 an hour — a 3% raise would mean 1.20 an hour more (I wish I could get a raise like that). Along with this less patients to care for — so more money and less responsibility? I’m sure that there is more to the package than just this…what about insurance and other benifits are there no demands being made on behave of these things?
Nurses do not make $40 an hour, more in the neighborhood of $18 to $24 which is still pretty good but they are responsible for life an death decisions.
As for less patients per nurse that is only a good thing. Which nurse would you prefer, the over-worked nurse or the nurse who tkae the time to care for each patient?
It means better care for the patient which is supposed to be the ultimate goal of hospitals and healthcare. Is it not?
R.N.s can make that kind of wage. They have 4 years of college and an on-going training program to keep up with modern medicine. $40 per hour is the National average for RNs. Do you think they should earn less because they live in Maine or because they are union members? I know an RN who works an E.R. believe me, you wouldn’t want to see what she sees everyday.
Many people have a 4 year degree and more they also go through ongoing training to stay current in their jobs. This training is usually provided and paid for (including time at trainings) by the employer. Most jobs don’t pay $40.00 an hour regardless of training. In today’s society everyone with a job is being ask to take on more responsibility — and yes many of these jobs also deal with people and the lives of people. I don’t often hear where someone is given less responsibility and more money. Doesn’t seem to be the way of society in these years. And NO I don’t think anyone should be paid less because of where they live — but reality is almost every state is hurting and its going to hit everyone of us that works — raises have been frozen in my workplace for two years…and yes I have a 4 year degree (actually I am a double major) and have been with the same company for twenty years…my hours have been reduced and more work given to me. Its what the work place is coming to but I am thankful everyday that I still have my job.
the average starting pay in Maine for an RN is in the low to mid 20s. Nurses that have years of experience in Maine make closer to what you are quoting.
There is nothing wrong with 3% increases or any other raises or bonuses when business is good. Safer working conditions are a completely different issue than pay.
If you want something out of the Liberal playbook, look at the non-payment of MaineCare to Maine hospitals which has resulted in hospitals having to cut staffing so they can make ends meet. Most hospitals in Maine are owed millions of dollars by MaineCare. This money would allow hospitals more flexibility and ability in finding ways to have safer working conditions.
Isn’t it wierd when we live in a world where a manager can make 6 digit salary and a hands-on working person gets criticised for wanting a 3% COLA? If anyone says anything about the manager, they are “jelous of sucess”. If you think the payments to the hospitals were slow before, wait til LePage get his way and there’s no payments for healthcare. Who do you think will pay the bill then? The tooth Fairy? Those expenses will still be there and we have to pay them one way or the other. That is unless we think we should euthinize the sick who can’t pay.
Maybe i will move there and take one of the positions of the abused nurses….Sad , they have had it good for to long.
You should. Are you licensed RN?……..
Yes
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30+ RN positions listed on website.
Thank you….we have 6 to 8 patients each.
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“The nurses at EMMC are great.”
It’s too bad that you don’t think their greatness merits guaranteed wages and benefits and protection from being fired without just cause. Oh, well. I guess that’s only good enough for the contracts doctors sign.
Amen, Unions destroy jobs. They provide short term help. Everyone feels good, good pay, good benfits. The issue people don’t realize is those benfits and wages cost money, cut into the revenue margin, and often the expense is passed off to the consumer. The consumer refuses to pay the increased price switching to a cheaper product. Then all the manufacturing is sent down Sotuh (where they don’t have Unions) or to China! Then we complain we have no jobs! Cycles!
Sounds like the story of the mills in Maine or the US auto industry. Coincidence I’m sure.
Pretty sure you can’t send healthcare for Mainers down south
Not entirely true, they have already been contracting some things offshore – mri/x-ray readings being done in India to save money.
Sorry should have been more specific. I meant nurses and other people with hands on positions.
Missed the point. Someone has to pay. Work yourself out of a job, or work yourself into paying more taxes. Either way someone has to pay.
Inflation is not a bad thing is wages go up at least the same rate of inflation. Now inflation is low compare to the 70 and early 80s but wages have not kept up.
“Unions had there place in time…”. So did hunting animals for food when you can go the grocery store, but thats another discussion. Many people are ignorant as to what unions are and what they do. I think a lot of people get their ideas about labor unions from watching ‘The Sopranos’. I always believed Mainers were smart enough to know the difference and make up their own minds based on fact, not heresay. I am a union member, and a contract is a two-way street. If you are ignorant to contracts, here it is-both sides AGREE to it. My union does not use guns to negotiate a contract, but there is give and take. In every negotiation, we lose something to gain something. Many contracts are settled by a Federal Mediator and his /her word is the final, binding decision. To those of you who repeatedly and foolishly believe union labor wages has forced manufacturing jobs to relocate to China and other child-labor friendly nations, ask yourself this question: When Nike moved their $100 dollar-a-pair sneaker manufacturing to China because shoe shop workers made $10 dollars an hour compared to Chinas $2 a week, did the price of the sneakers drop? Why did non-union manufacturing leave the country?
Actually my negative views of unions is significantly based on the behavior of the MSNA.
You are right. With regards to the cost of living adjustment, there are plenty of other departments at EMMC who’s employees have not received annual adjustments. It’s not fair for the nurses to get 3% a year when no one else has. I do agree with the metal detector though; the ER is a dangerous place and the securitas personnel at EMMC are unarmed, and many of them are old/obese. A police officer is only sometimes present.
The nurse’s on the 8th floor are amazing, their hard working and took such good care of my daughter when she was with them for almost a year. and most of the time they could not take breaks because they were so busy. I think they and all nurse’ deserve the moon, its a hard job and it takes special people to do what they do. Just remember they take care of our loved one’s……
You wouldn’t think so, listening to some people. I am not a union member, but I can appreciate the efforts of those who are. People will whine about how ‘nurses already make x amount of money’ and ‘they should be thankful they have a job’, blah blah. But we worked hard for our education, we work hard to help those we felt called to serve, and we work under our own license. If we screw up, especially due to poor staffing, it’s still on us. I remember many a shift taking no breaks (and probably could have, at times, but everyone else was so crazy busy you felt guilty asking someone to take your beeper) and barely having time to run to the bathroom (if I did at all). It’s a horrible feeling when you go home at night and can’t fall asleep because you’re wondering ‘did I do x for Mr. so and so’ or ‘I hope I remembered to chart such and such’. No nurse should feel that way because of being pulled in too many directions at once. Most nurses love their job, love taking care of people, love feeling like they made a difference in someone’s life. But, unfortunately, this is a dead horse that has been beaten many a time. I’m glad (thought not surprised) your daughter and you received good care.
I agree with everything you just said. Usually you are one of the few rational posters on subjects related to medical care.
But the problem comes down to one of economics. For multiple reasons, (In my opinion mostly due to government imposed laws, rules and regulations), hospitals are seeing increased costs forced on them while revenue is being reduced. Something has to give. If a hospital loses money long enough then it will go bankrupt and close. And while the upper administration salaries are obscene and should be cut, (again my opinion), in the over all budget these salaries are small potatoes and cutting them will not solve the problems of the bottom line. (And most of the people who complain about upper management have no idea what they really do and would last about one day in the job.)
The hospital, like any business, has X dollars to spend on employees. To pay some employees more means either paying others less or cutting numbers. If nurses really are overworked then there are only a few possible solutions. The one nurses want is to hire more nurses. I agree this would be the best solution but it also requires having the money to pay for it and with the projected cutbacks in Medicare, Mainecare, etc. no one sees this additional money becoming available.
The only real way for this to happen would be for nurses to agree to actually take a pay cut with a stipulation that every single dollar saved be used to hire more nurses. But we all know this is never going to happen, especially with a union involved.
Good points, and thank you for the compliment. A note on helping with staffing: I have friends who have gotten weekly opportunities for overtime. A nurse making $30/hr is costing the hospital $900 by working one 12-hour OT shift. It makes no sense, when another PT RN could be hired at $30/hr and be paid $360 for that same shift. This is how the hospitals get away with saying there’s no staffing issues. What nurse wouldn’t like that extra ‘pocket change’? So it ‘works’ for everyone.
Having worked at St. Joes as well, they use cost-cutting, non-waste methods of charging their patients. When an item is taken from the shelf, a sticker is placed on the patient’s charge slip to keep track of items used and only these are charged to the patient. It helps the hospital to not hand out items willy-nilly and reminds staff to only take what is absolutely needed for the sake of the patient. At EMMC, the supply room is a free-for-all (at least it was when I worked there) and nurses could grab handfuls of supplies to send home with patients (I believe there’s a base charge for supplies, but I don’t know for sure) and items were at our disposal.
But yes, it does all come down to economics. The hospital is a business, but they are also a business offering a necessary public service. This isn’t Apple or some company that does whatever it can to make a profit for entertainment, etc.
It isn’t just the $30 an hour that the hospital is looking at when hiring. All those benefits add up and the actual cost to the hospital is considerably more. And they are thinking about all the fixed expenses of every additional employee. The decision to add another employee is not simple.
One thing I have heard, (I do not know for a fact however), is that much of this overtime is caused by nurses who call in sick, family leave, ect. Problems like this are a nightmare for management to deal with. I know, I have been there. You cannot just hire employees to stand around waiting to cover for people who do not show up.
A company that has that many nurses employed needs to expect there to be call-ins. That’s a fact of life-people get sick, people’s kids get sick, unforseen situations arise, etc. That’s what pool, or on-call, nurses are for. These nurses make less money and receive no benefits or guaranteed hours. Often times, the floors aren’t hiring adequate numbers of pool nurses so when they call first thing in the am, they find out (like everyone else) that the call nurse has plans. Often pool nurses have their feet in several pots and work at different facilities.
I agree with what you say. It is not as easy to do in practice as it is to point out the problems. There are 3 competing factors here and increasing any one puts added strain on the other two or requires cutting back on one of them. Those factors are (1)the number of nurses, (2) what you are paying those nurses including pay increases demanded by union contracts, (3)and the money available to do the other two. And we all know that that last one is under attack. My guess is that discussions on how to achieve balance and do the best possible all around is a constant item of discussion by management.
Aetna, Cigna, and WellPoint saw 250 percent returns over the past 10 years. Nurses’ wages are not the problem. Our health care system is based on profit for the private sector. Costs have nowhere to go but up. That’s what the system is designed for, and powerful corporate lobbyists are fighting to keep it that way.
250% of what? Profit? But profit compared to what? What year? What actual dollar amounts?
In itself your statement is meaningless, and maybe even deliberately misleading. A talking point and designed to incite anger against the companies listed.
Let me give you an example. I have a business that 2 years ago my income was about $6,000. 1 year ago, after extraordinary measures at cost cutting, I made $13,000. That is a 116% increase in profit and income in only ONE year. If all you hear is the 116% increase in profit then you would think that is an obscene increase.
Deliberately misleading? The insurance industry doesn’t spend $150 million a year on lobbying for nothing. From the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 2011:
“In recent months, health insurance companies reported some of the highest
profits in years. Some insurers’ stocks are trading at all-time, or near
all-time, highs. And, many companies have accumulated large financial reserves
that far exceed State regulatory requirements.
“As many financial analysts have reported, one cause of these profits is that
actual medical costs are growing less than what insurance companies projected
when they set their 2011 rates last year. Recent data from the Bureau of Labor
Statistics found that the first quarter health insurance employer cost index, a
measure of health insurance prices, was 3.4 percent – the lowest it has been in
the quarterly series in more than 10 years.
“However, many of the rates consumers pay today don’t reflect these lower
costs. Instead, insurers are reaping the benefits of these lower costs while
maintaining higher rates. According to Barclays Capital, in
reviewing results from the first quarter of 2011for the top 14 health insurers
and managed care companies:
13 of 14 companies have exceeded their Earnings Per Share (EPS)
estimates.
The average earnings over estimates were 45.7 percent.
10 of 14 companies have shown stronger profits than expectations.”
Medical costs are not going up, they’re going down. Profits are at record highs. I’m sure your insurance company passed that along to you in the form of a lowered premum. Right?
You still didn’t give any actual numbers so your post is still just all spin and talking points intended to demonize the insurance industry.
Earnings Per Share (EPS) estimates are meaningless without knowing the actual numbers and comparing to long term history. If the EPS was based on a pessimistic outlook, say 1 cent per share, and instead the company did 1.457 cents per share then there is your “45.7% earnings over estimates” number. What isn’t said is that the earnings are still low and the business is in trouble.
“highest profits in years” is also meaningless if in those previous years profits were abysmal or even nonexistent.
It’s all in how you want to spin things and using statistics alone without details is one of the most common methods out there to mislead and distort real facts.
The staffing problem could be fixed with a new ALEC bill. Only require half as many nurses. I would fight my best against it . You know in this right to work state we have that is the next bill going to be pushed . Drive down pay . Make hospitals unsafe but who cares it would be more profit for CEOs.
So you think they deserve the moon. Let me ask you, are you going to pay for it? Your daughter who was there for a year, Mainecare by any chance?
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Yah, that was a low blow.
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You call it a low blow. I call it pointing out the reality that we cannot give everyone who deserves it “the moon”. And platitudes of this type need to be addressed for the
impractical fantasy they are.
I’m sure the nurses her daughter had were all amazing. Guess she didn’t have the one who almost killed my nephew this spring. That said, I have no problem with yher complimenting them. The part I take exception with is the “they deserve the moon” comment.
You know what, policemen deserve the moon. Firemen deserve the moon.
Soldiers deserve the moon. Truck drivers deserve the moon. There are a
hundred different jobs that are extremely difficult and dangerous that
if people didn’t do them our lives and society as we know it would come
to a crashing end.
(Note, I didn’t include politicians or bureaucrats as deserving the moon. I cannot say here what I think they do deserve.)
I guess I took it that they deserved ‘the moon’ in gratitude, not salary.
Valid criticism of my post. I take the phrase “deserve the moon” as indicating they should get anything and everything they want and then some. And this story is about union demands for increases in salary, benefits, etc.
I’m sure the nurses her daughter had were all amazing. Guess she didn’t have the one who almost killed my nephew this spring. That said, I have no problem with your complimenting them. The part I take exception with is the “they deserve the moon” comment.
You know what, policemen deserve the moon. Firemen deserve the moon.
Soldiers deserve the moon. Truck drivers deserve the moon. There are a
hundred different jobs that are extremely difficult and dangerous that
if people didn’t do them our lives and society as we know it would come
to a crashing end.
But the reality is that we cannot give everyone who deserves it “the
moon”. And platitudes of this type need to be addressed for the
impractical fantasy they are.
(Note, I didn’t include politicians or bureaucrats as deserving the moon. I cannot say here what I think they do deserve.)
I am sure the nurse who almost “killed” your nephew was overworked, stressed out, burning the candle at both ends and balancing a job that includes but is not limited to…..waitressing, psychiatry, self defense guru, pharmacist, secretary, personal attendant, and the list goes on. If you want a “better”nurse, get them help. Patients today are more complicated than 50 years ago. Don’t complain about the hospital you refuse to support.
That nurse was incompetent and a disaster waiting to happen. We have no idea how she ever became a nurse. After describing to the nurse in charge the mistakes made we asked that this particular nurse not be assigned to our nephew again. And we never saw her again.
Your very ignorant! She had Blue Cross, she was in the hosp because she had cancer and did not win the battle, so when I say they deserve the moon I mean it, because the women on the 8th floor are amazing and without them we would have been lost…..
I’m sure the nurses your daughter had were all amazing. Guess she didn’t have the one who almost killed my nephew this spring. That said, I have no problem with your complimenting them. The part I take exception with is the “they deserve the moon” comment.
You know what, policemen deserve the moon. Firemen deserve the moon. Soldiers deserve the moon. Truck drivers deserve the moon. There are a hundred different jobs that are extremely difficult and dangerous that if people didn’t do them our lives and society as we know it would come to a crashing end.
But the reality is that we cannot give everyone who deserves it “the moon”. And platitudes of this type need to be addressed for the impractical fantasy they are.
(Note, I didn’t include politicians or bureaucrats as deserving the moon. I cannot say here what I think they do deserve.)
I think that everyone who works hard deserves the moon, my comment was meant as a good compliment to most of them who dealt with my daughter from here to the Boston nurse’s. But I took offense to your comment about her insurance, it had nothing to do with anything. and if she did have medicare would that have made her less of a person? My daughter was a hard working young lady up until the day she was diagnosed with leukemia and fought like hell to beat it, she was 20 when she passed just this jan. I thank god that she did have good insurance. And I am very greatful for all of the ones who took such good care of her, so that was my point……
My apologies to you and condolences for your loss.
Daily I deal with people who want or even demand certain things while also expecting or even demanding that someone else pay for those things. Almost every day I hear of the abuses in the medical system of people on welfare demanding and getting the very best of medical care. Often getting care that people who pay for their own insurance do not get. Those experiences do color my view and interpretation of things. I happen to believe that if you cannot pay for something yourself, (and that includes buying insurance as a means to pay for something you cannot personally afford), then you should not get the service.
So you want to make it personal? How about you share with us your profession so we can pick it apart…
Lets respect the nurses . Take care of working conditions for them. Now that being said others deserve a pay increase to but do not get it.
No one at the hospital had received a cost of living raise last year probably because of the strike that ended up costing the hospital over 1 million dollars….. and 5% is outrageous in this economy! If by some chance they do get it, the hospital better be prepared to give 5% to ALL staff!
Get rid of the unions!
Ok an at the same time get rid of every thing that the unions have gotten for all workers in the United States . Like vacation time , over time pay , safety in the work place plus get rid of all government agenciess that pro teck workers an we would be back on the 1800″s
I would be willing to bet that your upper management has continued to receive their cost of living adjustments, raises AND bonuses during the time when union AND non-union workers did not.
I get tired over listening to people complain about ‘patient safety’ as a way to justify a raise. The reality is that the nurses want to be paid more and they should be. A hospital that is handing out large six figure salaries and management staff can kick out some more money to the employees providing the meaningful service. It should be OK for us to be adults and say that, rather than pretending that this is about safety.
I can appreciate what you’re saying. Though I haven’t worked on the floor in a few years, I can say staffing IS an issue. And with poor staffing comes potential for safely issues. The acutity of patients nowadays is so high. People admitted to the hospital are sicker and stay for shorter periods of time. This means more monitoring on the nurse’s part and more meds, more procedures, etc. On the cardiac floor they used to offer brand new grads one less patient than a seasoned nurse for one year so the new nurse could get experience. Since all the staffing issues in the past year or so, I heard this has has changed. New nurses are now getting a full patient load fresh out of nursing school. THAT is scary.
But yes, if you want more money, just say it. Don’t BS with another arguement.
I guess they think nurses are paid to much . A new ALEC bill could fix that problem . Let me give Andry Cushing an Idea . An act to encourage more HS. kids to get into nursing . Allow more CNAs to Nurses ratio . Problem fixed now half of the nurses would be out of a job. Nurses do make decent pay. They should be more focused on safety of and work conditions than money. We all have to cut back, upper management should also cut back on high paid CEOs .
The coming nursing shortage is scary. I can’t imagine what hospitals will be like in the future. There is also a long waiting list for most schools of nursing. One reason is due to a lack of nursing instructors. Nursing instructors don’t make butkus for money compared to a nurse and are often required to have a master’s or doctorate degree, so the incentive to teach is not there. Those teachers we do have are reaching retirement age. With too few teachers and fewer potential nursing students, we are faced with a shortage. Also, because nursing was traditionally a women’s field and more occupations are now open for women, less are chosing nursing. CNAs are envaluable, and we all couldn’t do our jobs without each other. But they are limited in their scope of practice. They can’t give meds, can’t assess, do dressing changes, put in catheters etc. They are wonderful in helping patients with their ADLs (activities of daily living such as dressing, bathing, etc.) and I don’t think increasing ratios of CNAs to RNs will solve any staffing/safety issues. Better patient care in the area of patients getting daily baths and bed changes, faster assistance to the bathroom for those needing help, the like. Patients are still getting the necessary ‘care’ they need, but from what I’ve heard are showing up for testing having not been bathed and with dirty linens. The MEDICAL care is happening, but the HANDS ON care is what is often lacking.
I have a great deal for respect for nurses . A job I could not do. We have no shortage or electricians . My point is every time the government tries to help it ends up causing more damage. I would suspect half the classes in nursing are generic college classes . Psycology math wrighting ect. What employers should do is give aptitude test to people in the medical field (Not all CNAs can pass nursing)And pay for schooling. We do not want to dumb down nurses. To have to wait till you get into a nursing school to start schooling to be is nonsense by the schools. Nurses need unions . The job market is supply and demand . If nurses pay went up another a bit and employers were willing to pay some towards schooling we would not have a shortage of nurses.
I hate to say it but in prinicple we agree on this one. However there is a safety issue when more of the workforce is putting in long hours OT because its cheaper than highering more bodies. Mistakes get made. Some statistics of the past decade say over 100,000 hospital medical errors resulted in death are made ANNUALLY. I know it sounds ridiculous but google it yourself. In my profession we have work limits regulated by the Feds but it is such a joke when the companies still keep a blind eye to the problem.
Cue the buffoons who will bash nurses because they belong to a union…
EMMC Nurses are great! The Union needs to go. The union wants a wage increase so they can pad their pockets. I would love to go to my employer and say I want a 3% pay increase every year for 3 years. I do not know many businesses that do that in this kind of economy. Shows you the union is out of touch. Nurses just can not go on strike….they have bills that need to be paid.
The nurses ARE the union and are negotiating their salaries to provide a service. Nothing more-nothing less. A non-union employee can also negotiate but we know how far that get’s them. BTW-the CEO and top management are not union and look what they make. I don’t see you bashing them. You must be in management.
I would say union needs to be bigger X-ray jobs are not union . If you ask me these men and woman are almost nurses. I am against a strike for pay when the profit margins are low . But some issues clearly need to be addressed. Unions should fight for all workers in the company . Not just nurses.
Get of the line and go to word. Unions kill business.. and the reputation of a Good Hospital..
Not at BIW the unions have saved the company money
How is it that the union at BIW can save money, but all other unions “supposedly” cost so much more?
I belong to a professional union and will tell you while the price of everything is skyrocketing, (oil in particular), my union took a 5% pay cut last year to save the company (which they appreciated) and another 12% this year. So many things are a fixed cost the company can’t control that wages are the only thing that is flexible to a point. The funny thing is wages may only be a small part of the overall cost of doing business.
There was a car company were the union people gave up a lot over the years to keep the company going an yes there was a union in there an its still there the company is make a great deal of profect an has paid more on the government loan an the CEO is going to give each employees 4,000 bucks because they have given up a lot over the years to keep the company going .
For one the union tells its people that there job depends putting out the work an the company gives money to its employees for the cost savings the quicker they get the work done the more money they get. Another thing every time the company ask the workers to pick up the pace they did an the workers did not run to the union to complain . The union told its workers if you can find a faster way to do things by all mean go to your boss an tell them . Now the company told the union that there insurance was to high so the union went out an found a insurance company (cigna )that was much cheaper an much better coverage than what the company had so as you can see the union an the company dose work together .
Nurse, teachers and State employees have all given up pay, benefits and other concessions to help balance budgets during bad economic times and all they here from the general public is “good, you already have too much anyway. But you never hear that with BIW.
That’s because BIW is making money so they are not hurting
But it still amazes me that know one is crying about their hard earned tax dollar being wasted to pay these large union wages. No one wants to hire an extra State employee so you don’t have to stand in line at Motor Vehicle because that would be a waste of money. But we can spend billions building ships and paying union workers to do it. I don’t begrudge anyone union or non-union making whatever they can. I just don’t understand the double standard.
No one thinks about places that do ship work ect . an what there pay is
Unions do not have to cost companies more money at all. If a company has good management, then there is absolutely no need for a union. Unfortunately, many places do not have good management. There is absolutely no reason that a company cannot have a good working relationship with a union. I have been a union member, a salaried member of management supervising union workers, and I have studied labor relations in my MBA studies. In my experience, if the company just does the right thing, there is not an issue or an additional cost. I completely respect unions, and I think that everyone should have the right to form/join one. The day we lose the right to unionize is the beginning of the end of the middle class.
You couldn’t have said it better. I am in a union and would do whatever it took to help my company. We have great relations. I have found that mismanagement or just plain bad decisions is a bigger part of the problem than any union is.
Why did none of the union haters make any comments yesterday regarding BIW union negotiations? There were zero comments posted.
missed it.
Yes i saw that an every one in the United State are paying there wages there should of been an up roar over how much they are being paid
But apparently nobody is. If you build ships for the government it’s OK to be in a union. If you are a nurse, teacher or a State employee it is not. I don’t get the double standard that there appears to be.
I know some people won’t like to hear this, but the double standard is gender related. Both Nurses and Teachers were dominated by women going back several decades. Both fields payed poorly until men started entering these professions. That’s about when the pay and benefits started improving. A few decades ago, women were supposed to keep quiet, work their butts off, and never, ever ask for more $. It was considered impolite for women to do so. Not so with men. I am delighted that enough men entered these field so that the wages finally came into line with comparable professions. That was not until around the turn of the Millenium for Nurses. For Teachers, it was about a decade earlier as I recall.
Also, RNinMaine is 100% accurate in all of her posts. I’ve lived it too.
I hate to say it, but you have a really good point. Every time I think we have come further in regards to gender equality, I am reminded (by example) that is not the case.
Anyone who has been in the hospital or has family in the Nursing field knows that nurses are the true unsung heroes in the medical industry. Unions or not, they deserve better pay for the hard work they do every day.
So do Teachers, Social Workers, Friefighters, Police Officers, and many other professions. Does money grow on trees? It is great and agree urses desrve more, but at who’s expense?
I vote that it be at the CEO’s and upper management’s expense. Did you know that the CEO of EMMC makes about 3/4 of a million dollars each year?
New Alec law will come out to allow each nurse to have 2 helpers IE CNAs. It would cut down cost to hospitals . Call an act to encourage more Highs school kids to become nurses. I suspect Andy Cushing will sponcer it. Why not it started with LD 1833 for electricians. Unions need to be careful they do not ask for too much . My mother worked for EMMC for 36 years at her retirement she would have got health care for the rest of her life she lost that benefit By one month. They had to pay a big share of health insurance no raise. The nurses are treated much better than most employees I would say Nurses should deal with some reasonable cut backs other workers have been doing for years at EMMC.
I dislike Unions. Nurses work hard, I work many of them. Unions provide fuel to the fire. Afterall they have to do something to justify their dues!
However increaseed salry means increased costs to the people receiving the service. Profit margins decrease. History has demonstrated by the loss of many industries in Maine, companies move their operations where labor is cheap. Keep complaining and they might find themselves out of jobs.
Of coure the taxpayer foot most of the bill. The taxpayers might enjoy an increase in tax to pay services provided to Medi-Cad/Media-Care/Maine Care insurances. I surmise a large portion of the revenue is produced through tax dollars.
I had no idea the extra 40 cents an hour I’ve received in raises over the past three years was driving up the cost of health care. To think I thought it was the 250 percent return that Aetna, Cigna and WellPoint enjoyed over the past decade. Silly me!
I think you missed the big picture. Raises are different, they are based on growth and reimbursement increases. My point isn’t to say nurses do not deserve or do deserve. Every action comes with consequence. Someone has to pay for wages and benfits. I work in Health Care.
Forgot to mention about the insurance companies. Why doesn’t the Union go after them? Why is it always the employer that has to pay? Insurance is evil. From that 250% return, how much did it cost to operate? Maybe their employees get good wages, maybe better benefits. What is the entire story, facts not feelings? Let me see the complete numbers. Someone has to pay and I”m tired of paying. I went to the ER (because my primary doc couldn’t get me in). I had an IV, a fecal taste, and left with two RXs, I was in there about 4 hours at a cost of $1400. Lets boycott that and not ask for more wages!
http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/blog/entry/nurses-take-on-wall-street1/
I don’t blame you think911, I would definitely boycott a fecal “taste” also…and I certainly wouldn’t pay for it!
(sorry, I just couldn’t resist.)
Wicked Funny, I would boycott it. Maybe I can sue and drive up the cost of health care ven more! I have a graduate degree, I should have selected another University! LOL
Respectfully, I think you’ve missed the big picture. Raises are first and foremost meant to help people maintain the cost of living and keep pace with inflation. I agree that every action comes with consequence. Since we permit a system that is based on profit to continue, we all pay exorbitantly for profit that benefits few; wages and benefits to the many suffer as a result. That’s the consequence. I, too, work in health care. My employer struggles to maintain wages because the rate at which these pro-profit cash machines, aka insurance companies — will pay for the hospital’s services does not keep pace with the rate of inflation.
BTW, in case you’ve missed another element of the big picture, consider this: Insurance companies have profited handsomely during this economic downturn because so many people postponsed elective procedures due to hefty co-pays and deductibles. Did you hear about anyone’s premiums going down due to that decreased demand? I didn’t think so.
So why go after EMCC? Why not the insurance companies? All raises should be based on performance. If you do not perform excepionally you don’t get a raise. Cost of Living is approx 3%. That isn’t much to help out. I work in a field where there reimbursement rate hasn’t changed in 10 years!
The same can be said for any one that gets a raise then it drives up the cost of every thing
Think about this for a second. Private insurance pays the hospitals more than medicare and Mainecare. When Obamacare takes over hospitals won’t even have private insurance to pay the majority of the bills. It is scary uncertain time right now. The Union is asking EMMC to make commitments for the future, when the future is unknown. It would be great if all wages could keep up with inflation but that isn’t the reality right now. It would also be great to get a 3 yr contract but that could be dangerous for both parties in these uncertain times. For example EMMC was able to give the non bargaining unit a raise this year because there was a change/unexpected increase in revenue. The nurses in the union did not get a raise because a commitment needed to be made without knowing the future holds.
In reference to your comment on your extra 40 cent an hour not contributing to healthcare cost, look beyond yourself and do the math. At EMMC alone that would be 40 cents x 800 nurses x who knows how many hours.
I don’t disagree that the system is flawed but right now all healthcare organizations have to work within.
Ask yourselves also what the nurses can do to make it better for staffing. The union has been unwilling from my point of view to address the issues that the nurses themselves have control over. I am referring to call ins, the unwillingness to float from floor to floor as needed and charge nurses never taking on patients. Before someone jumps down my throat about the floating and patient safety, I am not talking about the highly specialized places like ICU, and neonatal care. It has been said in these blogs before that it would be unsafe to float a respiratory nurse to say the orthopedic floor. If that is the case then where would the multiple trauma patient with orthopedic, respiratory, neurological, and with a history of cancer go once they are stable and no longer need ICU. On any given day there are low acuity patients on any floor that any extremely capable EMMC nurse could care for well.
Yes, these are uncertain times. But do you suppose that EMMC CEO Deborah Johnson, whose compensation amounted to $711,000 in 2008, doesn’t have a contract spelling out exactly what she will earn and for how long she will be employed? I’ll bet she benefits from plenty of certainty.
As for nurses not getting a raise despite a recent upturn in revenue, there’s no surprise there. Raises are negotiated with the bargaining unit, not simply awarded. The hospital has no incentive to just drop cash on workers; that would set a precedent.
As for telling me to ask myself what nurses can do to improve staffing, I can only conclude that you do not understand the work of the hospital nurse. You cannot have not had the experience of floating to an unknown patient care setting, nor have you read any of the evidence of the consequences of having a nurse do so. Where, pray tell, are these “low acuity” patients? Those who are on regular med-surg floors — where the ratio is typically one nurse to six or eight patients — who would have been in ICUs 25 years ago. Those now in the ICU would have been dead back then. You don’t just la-di-da “float” onto a unit to take of a patient who’s seriously ill.
Disagree? Ask yourself whether you would want your loved one cared for by someone who a) does not routinely care for patients with your family member’s malady, b) doesn’t know the signs and symptoms of specific complications related to it), and c) is giving potentially deadly medications that she does not give routinely. This is highly technical work with serious consequences.
Yes I still disagree and I think that it is insulting to think that the competent nurses of EMMC could not take care of patients with most diagnoses and do it well. I certainly realize that here are alot of patients that require specialized nurses and I am not suggesting that a floating nurse should give chemo drugs or something like that. Can’t tell me that out of the 30-40 patients on each floor you could not come up with 3-4-5 that any competent nurse could take care of. So I guess that you would rather have a nurse from another floor go home(downstaffed) rather then help a colleague in need on anther floor. I copy and pasted the below since you did not address this question I askedIt has been said in these blogs before that it would be unsafe to float a respiratory nurse to say the orthopedic floor. If that is the case then where would the multiple trauma patient with orthopedic, respiratory, neurological, and with a history of cancer go once they are stable and no longer need ICU?
You must have missed my point about the raises also. My point was that the non bargaining unit did get a raise this year that the nurses could not get until a new contract was reached. The hospital did give out raises when they were doing a little better financially. I maintain that by working under a contract can hurt, as well as help in some instances. If the hospital has to make decisions based on what they think will happen in the future. They need to do that conservatively as not to box themselves into a corner if even tougher financial time hit.
As for your comment about the CEO salary, her contract has a base and then she is paid more if certain bench marks are reached. So while high, at least her salary is based on performance to a point, unlike the nurses. The union has always fought merit raises which the non bargaining employees live with.
If you think it’s “insulting” to suggest that “the competent nurses of EMMC” could not take care of patients with most diagnoses, why do they resist doing it? Upon what is your knowledge of nursing based? How do you identify a low-acuity patient?
And no, I do not want a nurse to be sent home without pay based on census. There are many, many things that nurses can do besides direct patient care when the census is down. I note that doctors’ pay is not docked when the census is down.
As for your patient with multiple co-morbidities, he belongs on a step-down unit — and that is highly skilled nursing. You don’t just waltz in from another unit with the experience and knowledge to manage all those needs. Again, if it’s so easy, why do nurses resist it? An RN is not an RN is not an RN.
I didn’t miss your point about non-union personnel getting raises. As I noted, the hospital has no reason to set precedents by awarding the union non-negotiated pay or benefits. Precedents are legally binding.
As for merit raises, I don’t claim to have inside knowledge of the unit’s contract. But I do know that union contracts specify guaranteed minimum pay, not maximum. No union would object if the employer decided to exceed those minimums as it saw fit.
I have worked in the medical field for many years and work very closely with floor nurses.
Nurses resist it because it is uncomfortable to float to another floor where they don’t know the other nurses they will be working with and may not even know where to get supplies . I also think they don’t feel confident that they won’t be given the hardest patients and not the easiest. They need to be confident that the entire hospital will work as a team and not just take care of your own unit.The nurses are not sent home without pay when they are downstaffed, they would take paid leave time. So I again ask you, would you rather a competent nurse be sent home or do “special projects” rather then help their fellow nurses on another floor who is working his/her butt off.
What do you think the percentage of patients that have co-morbidities are? I think it would be very very high. Step down unit won’t work at EMMC, because they don’t have one.
Again, I guess I am very unclear about my comments concerning raises. My point is that the non bargaining unit raises are based on merit. The would get a chance at say a 3 % raise if the earn it . So a 0-3 % raise, the union wants a for example 3% across the board raise regardless of employees performance.
Another interesting point, I have talked about call ins, in numerous posts and nobody has come up with any solutions for that.
Respectfully, your knowledge of nursing is based on observation. It is not based on the education, responsibility, and experience of being a nurse. Do you think someone can just step into your job?
So EMMC nurses are not sent home without pay when the census is down. They get to use their vacation time. Yippee. Just like factory workers, only a college degree is required. I’ll say this much: That’s better than a lot of nurses get.
As for the “special projects” to which you refer, my down time is spent on working with new equipment and studying evidence-based practices. I have competencies and exams that must be completed every month. I also have to maintain my certifications. My shift is quite full, regardless of census.
So you disagree with the reasons the nurses feel uncomfortable floating? It would be a great world if only respiratory patients were on the respiratory floor, ortho patients were on the ortho floor and so on. It just doesn’t work that way. A nurse on any floor can and will be dealing with patients with multiple issues. I still believe that it is insulting to the excellent nurses at EMMC. So the patient with orthopedic, neuro and respiratory issues I mentioned earlier goes to which floor? Remember EMMC does not have a step down unit. Not sure it really matters though, according to you, regular floor nurses can only deal with one system at a time.
So you would not feel guilty doing unplanned non clinical projects rather than helping your colleague on another floor? I guess you just want the hospital to pay someone else to do it.
As far as someone stepping into my job, I think the other people in my department with the same degree could.
The cost of living is bascially a dream in today’s working environment – no one else unfortunately is receiving cost of living increases – nurses are in the same boat as all the other working forces – that is probbly not going to happen, and I hope they don’t picket just for that–safer working conditions I get, but get over the cost of living increases – it’s the pink unicorn…
Instead of complaining about the RN’s, how about you complain about the people that love to abuse the system and drive the cost of healthcare through the roof!