LINCOLN, Maine — Peter Vigue has an idea that he says can save Lincoln Paper and Tissue LLC at least $2 million annually.
The 65-year-old Cianbro Corp. president and CEO sees potato farmers in Aroostook County, homeowners in Milo and woodsmen on the Golden Road similarly benefiting from an increased international trade using Eastport, the only port in the eastern U.S. deep enough to handle new supersized container ships now being built, he said.
Vigue unveiled his idea for the key to making that trade possible, a $2 billion east-west corridor highway, to about 175 Lincoln Lakes Region Chamber of Commerce members during the chamber’s annual dinner at the Knights of Columbus Hall on Friday night. Close to a dozen protesters picketed in front of the hall on Route 2.
Project opponents, including the Maine Sierra Club, see many problems that they believe the highway would create, including harm to waterways, water quality, critical habitat and threatened and endangered species; the threat of private property being taken by eminent domain; damage to local communities’ environment and economies; and destruction of public recreational lands.
Vigue scoffed at the criticism. The privately funded and owned toll highway could not invoke eminent domain to take people’s homes, an authority its private investors lack, and will not harm sensitive environmental areas, he said.
“It is very inappropriate to mislead people and not tell the truth and to look after your own personal desires at the expense of others,” Vigue said of the tactics used by the proposal’s enemies. “It’s not right.”
Vigue declined to identify the precise route being considered, but said the highway, which Gov. Paul LePage supports and state government allocated $300,000 to study, would be well south of Maine’s working forests. He said he feared that the project’s opponents would bully landowners whose property the highway might cross.
“We need to be sensitive to the environment and not destroy it. We need to be sensitive to the communities [of northern Maine] and not destroy their livelihoods,” Vigue said. “Does it take time? Yes. Is it going to take a lot of work? You bet. But it is achievable.”
The proposal seemed to please dinner attendees.
“Part of it is already there,” said Dale Tudor, owner of Lincoln Financial Center, of the highway. “I don’t think it’s something that needs to be sold [to people], because it doesn’t cost the taxpayers.”
“I think it’s the last big thing the state could do to help increase economic growth,” said David Shannon, CEO of Lincoln’s Penobscot Valley Hospital and a member of the RSU 67 school board.
The highway would link New Brunswick to Quebec by way of a 220-mile toll route that would, under the tentative current plan, run from near Eastport west to connect to the road network near the Canadian city of Sherbrooke, which already connects to Montreal and Ottawa.
The three Canadian cities offer connections to Interstates 91, 87, 81, 90 and 275. Through those roads, Maine’s east-west highway would put Maine a day’s travel from almost every major city in upper North America — including Chicago, Detroit, New York, Boston and Providence — or about 40 percent of the continent’s population, Vigue said.
With the highway, the state that thinks of itself as the end of the road would center a sea, road and rail network that would connect Europe and Africa to the Far East through America’s heartland, he said.
And the highway, which would take six years for permitting and construction, would come at an opportune time. Experts predict that container-ship goods transport will increase from 80 million containers today to 243 million containers within 20 years, Vigue said.
Companies like Ford and General Motors see expanding international markets and need a deepwater port to ship from. Eastport could be it, he said.
“We are in the middle of the road and we have some things going for us that a lot of states don’t,” Vigue said. “We can do great things, because of the access we have to the population centers of this country.”
Maine would directly benefit from the connection, Vigue said. The state’s roundabout north-south highway network adds hundreds of dollars per truck for state products shipped and received. In LP&T’s case, Vigue estimated the cost to be about $500 per shipment.
When reached Saturday, Lincoln Paper and Tissue co-owner Keith Van Scotter said he found Vigue’s estimations of the highway’s impact upon his mill “not unreasonable, but we haven’t done an exact analysis.
“The point is that people who oppose things like this are very anti-growth and dishonest,” Van Scotter said in an email.
For the highway plan to work, Mainers will have to recognize that Canada is a good neighbor, Vigue said. A third of Maine’s foreign-sold goods go to Canada, 37,000 Maine jobs depend on Canadian trade and more than 60 Canadian companies employ 5,500 Mainers. Canadian tourists add more than $230 million to Maine’s economy annually, Vigue said.
And the highway would feature off-ramps to several roads — including I-95 and routes 15, 11, 201, and 27 — without bisecting any Maine towns or the working forest that is Maine’s breadbasket.
“Can you tell me that it is right in these regions that the death rate exceeds the birth rate? What’s the real message? What is it telling us? Look at the State of Maine today. Study it,” Vigue said. “The population base of the northern half of the state is shrinking. People are migrating to the southern half of the state or leaving the state.”
“I also feel and sense the pain and suffering that many of the people in this state, particularly in the northern half of the state, are enduring. It does not have to be that way. This is America,” Vigue said. “We are better than that.”
Of course Mr. Vigue is all gung ho about this highway. Look at the huge amount of money that is in it for Cianbro, and likewise Mr. Vigue.
Its all about money for Big Business . Not about for the people.
Of course Cianbro is going to make tons of money off of this, but why would they build this if they weren’t gonna make money? How is it not about the people? It connects the state of Maine to everything, which will benefit the people. Am I missing something here?
Bob, you are the problem with Maine. Let’s just let Maine sink further and further as the youth continues to move out of the state because there is no jobs. Keep being your pessimistic self and die with the state while the rest of us will be optimistic and hope for something better which is this.
The interest alone of $2 billion could create a lot of jobs. Do we not have roads already?
helllooo have you noticed that the state is not funding the construction of this road. they are kicking in 300k to help do a feasability study but the road is private enterprize. this is a win win for the state. the extra fuel taxes we will get as well as licenses for those trucks to do business in the state. the food and maybe hotels etc that the tourist from canada will bring as well as the shoppers etc etc etc. come on, get in the parade don’t just watch it or do you even realize there is a parade going on
Doesn’t Bob have a point? Are there no roads now? Do Canadians not pass through Maine now? Do they not buy fuel, food, overnight accommodations? Do they not already flood the southern Maine coastal beaches in high summer? Do they not already flock to Maine ski areas during their late winter school vacations? The Quebec tourists doing that use north-south routes usually, thus Vigue’s road wouldn’t be of any great help to them, I shouldn’t think. Route 201, 27, 5, US 2, I-95 and 295 US 302, I-89 and 93 all provide good access. Will a road through the woods from New Brunswick to southern Quebec bring more of them? Are those who perhaps go elsewhere or stay home not coming to Maine because there is no way to get here?
Besides, won’t the proposed route actually reduce travel time in the state? Other than truckers and those Canadians and others (most of whom will make as few stops as necessary) making a beeline for Montreal and west of there stand to benefit by a shorter route. If they pack their own lunch and leave the Canadian side with a full tank, there’s not likely a need to stop and wander around, Think of this as a micro-Alcan highway and a pipeline (one of its reasons) for a moment. A watering hole with an exit here and there, but no great change to the Canadian hinterlands. Maybe there’ll be grand hotel, maybe not. As for the parade, I’m not worried about it as much as I am skeptical about the drum major. Some may recall the Music Man. Is there a Marion the Librarian to bring help this promoter find something beyond the big bucks? In this case, not likely.
Disqus generic email templateit is obvious you have not traveled to canada much or been around the canadians. for starters, check out their diesel and gas prices. their medical system is partial paid through fuel taxes so being one who lives near the border I see what they pay for gasoline. they can save over a buck a gallon on gas and diesel so you tell me that if you drive truck and have 200 gallons of storage and can save a buck or more a gallon, are you going to fuel in the u.s.? and while fueling are you going to eat and maybe buy other stuff they might have at the truck stops?you must realize that the roads they have now are not the best for trucks and they are not direct enough so these new ones will save them time and money. don’t forget the tourist, snowmobilers etc that if they can cut hours and hours off their trip, won’t they be more apt to come over more often especially when their dollars is equal or greater in value to ours? milk in canada is 8 dollars per gallon and cheese and meats are all out of sight as well as other items because they subsidize a lot of their farmers and their taxes are so much higher. even the gas stations up here near the border are priced in liters and gallons and in canadian money? believe me this will bring more commerce to our state? what have we got to lose?
it also brings more pollution, wear and tear on our other roads.
Hopefully, the income to the state would more than offset that. We will be able to afford to actually rebuild some of these crappy roads instead of putting a 1/2″ of crappy patching material over them.
There is no income to the State..at least not directly from the road..the developer/owers get all the tolls and all the fees. Read the highway privatization Statute Cianbro wrote for itself in 2010 and see for your self..Title 23 Section 4251
And we can’t tax the rich, can’t tax the corporations so if none of the money can be taxed we send the profit out of state to investors, Vigue builds the gas stations because the state grants him exclusive rights to build on his highway, again I ask where is the benefit to Maine?
Narsbars,
How can we really evaluate what it means for Maine without more open ness and honesty from Vigue & MDOT..we don’t atually know anything at all about the particulars of this road including its route and we certainly have no information about what Vigue means now when he says “pipeline” along the 2000′ wide utility corridor.
Their secrecy invites speculation and incites fear.
MDOT and Vigue just can’t close the public out of this ..they themselves in their own report recognize how controversial the project is, how many stakeholders are involved, how significant the wetlands mitigation will be.
It is just ridcisulous to think a project of this scale will be done in secfecy or that there won’t be a lot of public questioning and concern
Taxes are income to the state. All the people working pay taxes, all the tar that is purchased has a tax. All teh gas sold has a tax. there is plenty of income for the state.
Taxes are income to the state, no question. Not clear yet how that figures in to all the public costs and benefits, if any, on this project…or where all these goods and materials and workers will come from.
You just lied. From the law you sited.
“D. The department may require
provisions in the agreement that ensure that a negotiated portion of
revenues from a toll-generating
or a fare-generating transportation facility is
returned to the department over the life of the agreement. “This means Maine get a portion of the tolls up front. Just like these things always do.
Cheesecake..Thanks I had not noticed that provision and you have quoted it exactly . So far in what Cianbro or MDOT has made public there has bee no mention of the possibility of sharing revenues with the state and I am not aware of any privatized highways in the U.S. where gov’t agencies received any income from revenue.
We should ask whether the $300,000 bankable feasibility study we ae paying for assumes or provides for or considers any revenue sharing with the State.
I admire that you took the time to actually read the statute and bring facts to this discussion. Thank you.
I think what most of us are seekig the truth and asking that there be transparecy in any negotiationns and agreements and opportunities for public hearings and public input.
What I am advocating is a pre-application process where all of our questions can be answered and all of our concerns addressed.
I am curious, what did you think of the statute?
It applies to all roadways in Maine potentially, including the turnnpike, railoroads and bridges anywhere in the state. It was passed without any public notice or opportunities for public input. Cianbro was a principal author of the law according to testimony on the record from sponsor McDonald.
Is that all ok with you?
That kind of secrecy and lack of transparency, as well as inconsistent and varying responses to the same questions from the public are what has raised concern and is feeding a growing demand for openess and truth.
Thnak you again for taking the time to actually read the statute and bring what you found to this forum.
Wow, you need to find your meds, that rant went everywhere. Not sure if I understood your point but Vigue did point out that the opportunities that this road created were many. Please re-read this part:
“The three Canadian cities offer connections to Interstates 91, 87,
81, 90 and 275. Through those roads, Maine’s east-west highway would put
Maine a day’s travel from almost every major city in upper North
America — including Chicago, Detroit, New York, Boston and Providence —
or about 40 percent of the continent’s population, Vigue said.
With the highway, the state that thinks of itself as the end of the
road would center a sea, road and rail network that would connect Europe
and Africa to the Far East through America’s heartland, he said.”
This is a big deal and the biggest deal of all is this will be funded with PRIVATE money. How on earth is Maine worse off for seeing this project through?
With the highway, the state that thinks of itself as the end of the road would center a sea, road and rail network that would connect Europeand Africa to the Far East through America’s heartland, (Vigue) said.”
Now Vigue infers that Maine will become the hub of the world if his road is built. If he actually believes this and it’s not just hyperbole, perhaps he could stand to have his meds adjusted.
Because the Liberals want the State or Feds to build it. Which in turn we will continue to be waiting for them to build it which is never going to happen. The only way our infrastructure is ever going to be fixed is if we have the Cianbro’s and other Private Sector companies come in and do it for us.
There are no major East/West highways in this state. There are meandering tote roads that follow cow paths of yore. Businesses need direct roads that were designed for transport. We do not have those in this state unless you are heading south, and in that case there is only one. Unless we rebuild our rail system or build a descent East/West highway system this state will continue to fail.
Agreed Sir and that’s why it is so important that it be done the right way, with everybody’s position taken into consideration, not just the one’s that want to build it for the sake of building it to show off what they can do and try to take us ALL for a haywagon ride. And you are more right than you know about rail. Rail could open up huges amounts of Maine to development, provided it’s done thru planning, not the usual ‘cut and trash’ method’s so many call for. Agricultural products moving west to Canada and the Midwest, Detroit and Chicago’s products’s, as mentioned elsewhere here in the comments, could be moved to Portland, Searsport, Eastport, Calais and Lubec, could all flow from the Midwest to Maine and get our port’s moving again, and in some case’s, expand their current capacity. But it needs to be done thru a planned and thoughout process. Right now all we’re seeing is a 30 inch 28 gauge shooting at a goose at 1000 ft. Anyone wanna guess what the ‘shot’ spread is and the odd’s of hitting the goose are ? Food for thought ……….
and how much shopping will there be along this road? fast food, gas stations?
Schmidlap
At present Maine does not allow any trucks of the size this road will be built to accomodate on Maine Highways..so without a huge investment in upgrading, the Canadian trucks which are the principal usesrs of this road will not be able to leave the highway. So there will be no lucrative local income producing businesses along this route based on truckers or truck stops or tourist rest areas.
For Montrealers, the principal source of Maine’s summer tourism the principal attraction is Maine’s southern sandy beaches. There is no reason for those folk to come into Maine via Bangor just to use that leg of Vigue’s Canadia corridor.
The maritimes have their own beuatiful beaches..less expensive and less developed than ours in the south. Maybe Montrealers will choose to vacation in the Maritimes and totally skip southern Maine.
What has I-95 done for business between Bangor and Houlton along the route of the highway?
If you have to leave I-95 for gas or food it is quite a way some some old little businesses that used to do much more before the highway went through.
So you seriously don’t think new businesses will crop up? You don’t
think that many Canadians don’t stop in Bangor to Gamble? You don’t
think that Bangor is a gateway to Acadia? You are foolish if you don’t
think this will be a benefit. There were people exactly like you when
they built the national highway system. Guess what, that was one of the
biggest booms this country ever saw while that was being built and long
afterwards. Maine was left in the dust with only one entrance in and out of this state.
With all due respect, experts retained with tax payer dollars determined this highway would not serve Maine’s business and economic development interests..that’s why it has not ever been a state or federal hi priroty corridor.
Mr. vigue is going around glad handing and offerimga different opinion that is not supported by fact or study. It is just part of his glad handing pitch to gain public acceptance for a project that has absolutely nothing to do with Maine.
Here is Vigue’s own “strictly confidential ” 2008 feasibility concept plan for the highway.
http://issuu.com/thebostonphoenix/docs/2008—cianbro—east-west-highway-conceptual-feas/1
Do you see any mention of Maine or benefits to Bangor or anything that you believe might come from this highway in there?
This is Vigue in his own words.
Depending on my point of view, I can create studies to back it up. I don’t think that Vigue’s primary concern is the state of Maine.
Look at a map of any state. Look where the big production centers are, look where the business hubs are. They are not along single corridors, they are general where major roads intersect. Traffic can come and go from multiple directions. Maine is not built that way. Maine has one path in going north to nowhere. There is no destination when you come to Maine. Bangor is the third largest city in the state, not because there are nice people, but because it is the main route to destinations from I95, the only main corridor in the state. People go through Bangor to go to Acadia, a national park that is the destination of hundreds of thousands every year. An east/west highway will not bring people and jobs here overnight, it will be a ramp up of a couple of decades. An east/west highway would be an intersection of a couple of major parts of this state. It will also open us up to the rest of the country to us more directly. Bangor would be the Hub of the state instead of Portland.
I hear the earnestness in your reply and I respect that.
But the way it works is highways don’t create growth, highways accomodate growth and relieve overcrowding.
You are right it takes time. I have been very interested to see the “commuter belt” for Bangor extend further north even to Cold Stream Pond and that would not have been possible without I-95
All cities need rings radiating out offering accessible and affordable housing and from that small outer ring business centers arise and from that local jobs grow.
As a professional planner ( not praticing for many years though) I agree completely that Bangor has become a very important business hub once again and that is about more than traffic passing through on its way to Acadia.
Bangor’s growth is what makes the possibility of growth within 60 miles of Bangor possible. That’s how transportation planning is supposed to work.
Houlton and Lincoln also have that pottential and they are all already hooked up with each other via I-95.
So Absolutely..improving route 2 west and improving route 9 east . which has been the State’s very wise strategy and prority for many years, makes perfect sense.
Improving the north South Corrdor from Houtlon to East Port makes great sense.
The East West Highway.. as proposed by Vigue doesn’t do that at all. All the experts have said that and for our $300K investment will tell us once more it will not do that.
Funny, their own 2008 study doesn’t mention these benefits but it does mention MAJOR environmental impacts and using eminent domain.
Bosox you have to be a full time assistant to Atty. Billings to make such a statement – the usal hate, fear, attack approach, you clowns love that approach.
If you are so open minded tell me where are all the jobs your Gov. promised and you can’t count all the new jobs that will be create when the guffoon Governor is out of office and back at Mardens store.
Well, he was left to clean up Baldacci’s mess and he is trying to create jobs by getting this passed. He has been in office less than a year. Where are all Obama’s jobs and all the hope and change that was supposed to take place when he was elected?
Go ahead, elect another Baldacci-esque governor and continue to dig the state’s grave.
And I don’t live in the state anymore because there were no jobs after college. I had to go to elsewhere to find employment after living in the state my entire life and attending UMaine.
So I am part of the large population that Vigue states are migrating south and out of state because there is nothing left in the state of Maine.
why does your ilk always mention Obama when your main pig/man Lepage is mentionned? The subject here is not about Obama…stay on task. (I am not one of Obama’s supporters, either)
It is the same with people like you. When Obama is failing you start your next sentence with, “But, but G. W. Bush…”
You mean the three million jobs Obama has added? They are in the US unlike the jobs Rmoney sent to China and the governor we will send to Florida.
Where is all the jobs that Brennan, King, Baldacci and the Democrats in the Legislature been for years . With them saying Maine has tons of, Where are they ??? . You can attack LePage for making attemps to change the Welfare Culture in Maine but Democrats should not be jumping up and down. Because they are the reason why Maine is stuck in the “black hole” its in.
darkcat,
You are abolsutely right that the problems facing all of Maine have been brewing for many many years. I have seen myself that many of th e problems I have been working on arose during the Baldacci adminsitration.
A democrtaic majority will not improve Maine unless we also improve and radically change the way we go about growth. All things that grow grow from the roots up not the top down.
.
I am a tesparty republican. this is a bad deal for the people of Maine period. I believe Cianbro will sell it upon completion to the Chinese or to Canada… As a repub I believe in a good business climate, but I don’t believe in corporate welfare. I will sign on the dotted line for a peoples veto if this passes. No private highways for Maine… I’m tired of Big Money controling the people.
Cianbro would not be the sole owner. It is silly to think Cianbro wants to sell it to Canada or China. Maine already operates a toll road and will get its cut out of this deal.
cliffordmc,
And on what authority do you offer this information and this promise? Is this a matter of faith? Of hope?
All of us are relying on past studies and referring to what Vigue has said in his own words as “current truth” in his strictly confidential 2008 report ( released by MDOT to Lance Tapley). Granted nothing said so far suggests that a sale is posisble to china or canada or any ofreign country but none of us know who the parent is for Kennebec West Forest LLC who are owners of a large stretch of this road. Do you know for sure they aren’t a chinese or a Canadaian company? They are registered as a Delaware company as lots of foreign owned us Companies are.
As a private project, this is on an entirely different scale and order than building Wal Mart in Bangor.
If you can offer us something more to support your judgemeny and your promise, we’d all appreciate it, I’m sure.
Just like we should believe you when you always tell folks like me that this road will only have 2 exits, no rest areas & bathrooms, no gas stations. Which is nonsense. Maine will see major benefits in fuel taxes, meals taxes etc.. This road will be like the Maine Turnpike in Southern Maine but privately funded and run by Private Sector. It will only take about 6 years total to build with permitting etc. unlike the Public Funded Proposed East-West Highways which still hasn’t even got off the ground. Like Peter Vigue said the Enviros and Liberals are so full of lies and bs its doing a disservice to the Maine People here in the 2nd District who have been crying for this road for decades.
Hi Dark Cat,wondered where you were.
No question you are faithful and trusting on this.
Posts here, mine and others have referred to what little Vigue himself has made public on the details of this project and to inconsistencies and changes in in that , at least as reported in the paper. As you know, I almost always try to provide a link to sources from which my information is derived.
Secrecy invites speculation and feeds fears.
The truth invites discuussion and discernment..
Did you read the 2008 strictly confidential 2008 study many of your neighbors are refrring to here? That is Vigue’s own words and it is those words that are bringing growing concern about this project and especailly the 2000′ energy corridor. People speaking here are not all liberals or enviros..but your neigbors who expect truth and transparency.
I notice you didn’t respond to davidvsgoliath for saying what he believes and making his assumption with no basis in fact as you yourself will admit. Based on that it is silly to use these scare tactics which are not really scary at all. The funny thing is there are plenty of foreign owned corporations that have invested money in the US. The Canadians already own a fair share of this state. It isn’t like they are going to take it home with them. As far as eminent domain, more than likely the state will use it. It just the way it is for projects of this size. This state needs an east west highway to bring it out of the dark ages. I would guess the state will get a share of the operating revenues.
seeking the truth is not a “scare tactic”
Well, golly gee! “This is bad for the people of Maine period.” I guess that makes it so, then,huh? I’ll have to re-evaluate my opinion. THANK YOU, DvsG for lifting the cataracts from my eyes and seeing the truth! Hallelujah!
I’m glad I could help. your welcome!
Maybe the Teaparty is seeing the light. Of course privatizing government services is going to be more expensive. We will have almost no control and you raise a frightening point. They could sell it to the Chinese or Canada. Remember the example of firing all of those State employees in the liquor business. The state lost over ten million a year in profit at the time, now estimated at 25 million a year, good jobs, and for chump change that leaves the state.
Yeah let’s leave it to Augusta who has shown they can even manage the budget properly and still hasn’t repaid back the IOU’S to DOT. Thanks to Baldacci and King diverting the money to expanding the unaffordable WELFARE State we have now.
Mr. Vigue. I’ve got no objection to your highway. I’m just not willing to see taxpayer money build it for you. If you want to own a private toll road, build it yourself.
That’s exactly what he’s doing. Keywords: “privately funded highway.” 5th paragraph, 1st sentence.
what about the $300,000? If its such a great idea, they should kick in the money for it. Cianbro has it.
A thing this big, that the state benefits from, should show some earnest money. That’s the way things work. Cianbro has likely put far far more money in it already.
WHEN the road is built the 300K will be given back to the State of Maine for the study, you need to spend money to make money. This will be a HUGE plus for the Port of Eastport, creating jobs in a very depressed area
what about all the time spent by our state officials to permit a 220 mile road over the next several years? what about the upgrade of the border crossing at coburn gore that will be needed? what about the fact that they say that they’ll “pay the state ” for state police and plowing services, but the state police and maintenance crews can’t even cover existing roads? what about hospitals responding to accidents with tandem-trailer trucks? what about all the local roads that will be cut off by this gated 2000′ corridor? how will foresters, fishermen, trappers, snowmobilers, woodsmen, access the land that they used to use freely? will they make other roads? will people in the UT make other roads?
The reason that he’s looking to get public support (meaning government support) is written into this article. A private company cannot take property by eminent domain. They need the State to do that for them. That’s what this whole thing is about. Maine should not get into the business of building private highways.
So which is it? You said that you had no objection to his road, other than ensuring that it was privately funded and when I pointed out that it is entirely privately funded, you change your argument to that of eminent domain.
Perhaps we need to organize a search party for your credibility, because it appears you have lost it.
Please get educated before you comment. PLEASE
He has one..the school of liberal haters…it’s a big club, especially in this rag…
Boxsoxboy2006 – check back with us after you’ve been informed that your property is going to be taken by eminent domain, for development of this private highway. And remember that the only reason this guy was able to steal your land was because he persuaded the State to get on his side. This whole story is about a private, very Republican company, using State government to gain easy access to eminent domain authority. You are a sucker. Vigue was a huge Bush W supporter. That should tell you more than you need to know.
It says right in the article that no property can be taken by eminent domain.
“The privately funded and owned toll highway could not invoke eminent
domain to take people’s homes, an authority its private investors lack,
and will not harm sensitive environmental areas, he said.”
If you care to read what Mr Vigue thinks of liars like yourself, read the next sentence that is in the article.
entitled4life, just because someone says something and it is printed in the BDN doesn’t make it true. I posted this above and am posting as a response to your comment, just so folks can remain informed about this proposed project. It is Mr. Vigue who is misleading people. As he knows, or should know
if he’s as smart as he purports to be, that the US Supreme Court case,
Kelo v. City of New London, the Court ruled constitutional the
government delegation of its eminent domain power to a private entity.
So the fact of the matter is the exact opposite of what Mr. Vigue
states, that is “The privately funded and owned toll highway could not
invoke eminent
domain to take people’s homes, an authority its private investors lack,
and will not harm sensitive environmental areas, he said.”) So, the government clearly could delegate its eminent domain authority to whatever entity wants to build this private road. It is Mr. Vigue who is misleading, not the opponents.
That’s correct booksense. Also, this project is different because it’s a “public-private-partnership” and that means the state can grant those powers to the private entity for the “public good”. They can also make decisions about the project without involving the public at all.
When asked directly by a reporter in another article, proponents have said that they’re not looking into eminent domain at this time but they’re not able to rule it out. Now that is more honest.
No one in opposition has any reason to lie, the facts stand on their own. However, when someone like Peter Vigue threatens to change the face of Maine, people are going to be concerned and start talking about what could happen. That is real.
Read THEIR study from 2008 that says the exact OPPOSITE. Largest wetland mitigation ever, partnership with State for eminent domain power, MAJOR environmental impact, etc…. Who’s the liar. Check the facts instead being led like a sheep.
MEBears
And here is the link to that “strictly confidential study” which really says it all in Vigue’s own words
http://issuu.com/thebostonphoenix/docs/2008—cianbro—east-west-highway-conceptual-feas/1
right, enntitled4life, so let’s get that absolutely cast in stone that the State no matter what will not use eminent domain for this project. That would settle one big huge unknown.
The State has actually not ruled that out. The State has officially said it wowuld be a “last resort”.
We ll lets’ rule it out then, right now. Let’s make State MDOT commit that it will not use eminent domain for this no matter what. That will ease the fears of many who are very anxious right now.
That is a humanitarian and decent thing to do.
George Bush supporter..that’s all YOU needed to disagree. Did you even read the article or are you just so filled with hate that doesn’t matter? Me thinks the latter….
I hate to break it to you but he has donated to Democrats in the past including King , Baldacci, Mumbles Michaud he has stated so on the local news to Don Carrigan. So he doesn’t just like certain Republicans he also supports Liberals who I can’t stand like King , Baldacci, Mumbles Michaud.
bosox2006 (I can tell by your name you are living in the past! lol)….This road would not connect us to “everything”. It is for the benefit of Canadians, mostly, to just pass thru our state on the way to somewhere else.
The CMP power line is a great Idea that will not be needed for 20 years what is the upkeep cost of those lines? when they are 20 years old and needed maybe needed they will be 20 years old. Almost time to redo them . Not helping the people of Maine as much as other states but we are footing the biggest part of the bill.
I disagree. Small businesses will benefit greatly from this. When people have jobs, they have paychecks. When they have paychecks, they stay in their communities rather than moving away. When they stay put, they spend money in their communities. Business is what puts paychecks into people’s hands, not the protesters, nor the 99%.
Every business n Maine will beneift, not metnion consumers. The better the transportation infrastructure, teh lower teh transportation costs, the lwer goods can be priced.
Hi Lakesregion and all bloggers, whatever your position is on the highway..I have started a “poll” at google moderator everyone can particpate in and add to called “East West Highway Questions without Facts”. I started it off with a few questions that arise from this discussion. If a question already posted is one you would like to have aswered you can just vote for that question. If your questions are not answered you can add your question and then others can vote if that is their question too.
Not Sure if it will work..I have never created one of these before
http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=1fd52e&t=1fd52e.40
The state will use eminent domain or they won’t be able to build it. Why do they need a 2000 ft corridor?
Company rest stops, company rest areas, company gas stations, company motels. Next, company malls? Tax exempt shopping? So easy to see.
If you believe Mr. Vigue’s claim that eminent domain can’t be used for private use, please read the S.C. KELO opinion, he may be mistaken. This highway is akin to the trans-continental railroad on a state level, huge giveaways to a large construction company. Maybe Cianbro can have it built by Chinese coolies as well.
This is a boondoggle, complete with rabbit from a hat numbers and nebulous promises.
People are dishonest because the might appose his first offering? Spoken like a true Republican.
I thought I originally read that this highway planned on using the Golden Road, but I guess not if it is going to by pass the working forest.
well.dlaurels, its a bit misleading. To say the stud mill rd is south of “working forests”???
translation?
our partners, Kennebec West Forest LLC and Echo Easement LLC are non commercial interests..ie not at all interested in using their assets as timberland. it used to be timberland. it was purchased as timberland. it is taxed as timberland but our partners have more profitable uses in mind.
More twist to the story By Cianbro. Like LD 1833 is good for workers . I see it will do more to put licensed electricians out of work and lower pay than it will do to recruit new workers. Great for big business bad for the workers and small business . New highway is going to be toll? No state money? Maybe less people will travel because the toll. We spent so much time thinking about what might happen in 20 years than what is really happening.
If it’s a private road, can towns and the state tax it?
Trust me us tax payers will end up paying for it one way or another.
aroostookme..love it!!! love it!!! absolutely!!! certainly a property taking in $35-$40 million per year in tolls and fees from the “utility corridor” should be reassessed and taxed at its new value.
Love it!!!!
The new valuation????
Well obvously the price tag on construction + the value added from the zoning chnage..that’s $2billion plus at a very different tax rate than timberland.
How about Jackman to Medway.. and then connect to I-95. . It would be great for Aroostook County!!!
The FEDS just announced a $30 million award to a NH company for upgrade of the Jackman border crossing. can’t imagine they’ll be upgrading Coburn Gore only a few miles away..just more proof that this corrridor is about Cianbro’s and Canada’s fanatasy and has nothing to do with what Aroostook needs and deserves for support from Maine..from all of us. in Maine and certainly from the legislature.
Please, who’s Vigue think he’s kidding ? The minute that the surveyor’s show up to start surveying the route, that land’s, along with every other piece of land’s, value goes up. Since, by Vigue’s own statement, the company (Gee, can I spell C-I-A-N-B-R-O ?) lacks the authority to take land by eminent domain that means that Maine is gonna have to do it for them. That means that Maine is gonna have to declare eminent domain (and litigate the ensuing court battles that go with it) and then turn it over the Cianbro, in toto, for the road to be built if it wins in Court. That means that the minute that Maine turns the land over, under the terms of the Act, Maine no longer has any say in the road, it’s design or construction short of either an environmental issue (Where is DEP when you really need them ?) or some public safety issue, and then only if it’s an issue not covered under the Highway Act.
And to add some long-term perspective to this, add this to the pot. If the land has to be bought by Maine, under eminent domain and fair market value, who’s gonna foot the bill, Maine or Cianbro ? Maine does and we can all start saying hello to a Bond Issue since the State is not gonna have anywhere near the cash to make this happen on a cash basis, and Cianbro will want cash up front. If Cianbro has to buy it, at fair market value, then we can all say hello to some VERY SERIOUS TOLL’S, since Cianbro is gonna want to get all of their initial costs recovered PDQ in the event that this whole mess winds up in Court and Cianbro loses. Either way, polite protestations being what they are, namely Chanel # 5 on a ‘pile’, Maine is gonna be given a center row seat for the biggest ‘moosehumping’ of it’s life if this nonsense goes on much longer.
To be fair also, does Maine need some more road’s for better transportation and business development ? You bet we do, and damm quick ! But these roads need to be done in a controlled manner, with some very serious research being done by people who have no vested interest in them. Everytime Maine caves into a commerical venture, like we almost did with Kestrel, Maine winds up get the ‘hose’. That someone in the DECD had the guts to stand up and say ‘Hey, Maine is the one taking the risk. You wanna build here, fine. Show us all of the information on this project, not just what you want us to see.’ in the face of those supposed job’s Kestrel was promising, saved Maine a huge amount of money, and court litigation cost’s, by exercising some common sense ‘smart’s’ and just finally saying NO to Kestrel. Later on, by the way, the DECD found out that Kestrel had left a trail of red ink from the Dakota’s and Minnesota, finally winding up here in Maine. Whoever in DECD made that ‘NO’ call should be promoted ! I can’t put my finger on the precise button, yet, but with so much public ‘rush to judgement’ theatric’s done by Cianbro to get this thing going tells me that somewhere in this mess is a very serious financial ‘landmine’ that Cianbro, and those State Senator’s who voted for this Highway Act, don’t want tripped. The why, I suspect, is going to be more than a little messy when it comes out into the public eye. That the AG’s Office hasn’t put in their 2 cent’s worth is also a subject for someone to ask. This is a moment when the State Legislature, if it can quit playing ‘spit the bean at each other’ long enough, should step in and re-examine this whole mess from a 3rd Party perspective, and quit being bullyed by not just Cianbro but Paulie as well, and have the guts to admit that maybe this whole Highway Act was passed in haste and without proper regard for the public’s best interest, environmental and business together. To admit that one acted in haste is the true measure of maturity and to show leadership and flexibility in judgement. To not do so only shows arrogance but total disrespect for any other idea or opinion. In political terms that’s ‘My way or the highway’. Next ………….
Hey Mike,
Well let’s hold him to it that he doesn’t need the state and organize all stakeholders statewide to repeal the ill gotten highway privatization statute Cianbro wrote for itself.
Then we all start over in the right place first with deciding whether Mainers even like the idea of highway privatization and what “we the people” might consider the right circumstances under which to privatize highways.
All Mainers..unite and call for repeal of Title 23 Section 4251 early early early in the next legislative session. The privatization statute as written applies statewide..it could come to a bridge or roadway near you soon..it could come to the trouble Maine Turnpike.
Write to every member of the Transportation Committtee to demand this..write to your reps to demand this.
Then we’ll have a level playing field with all stakeholders at the table, we’ll have perfect transparency , we’ll have truth and then we can all decide what we think of highway privatization.
And if we want highway privatization at all we can decide what the criteria should be and whether this Canadian high priority corridor would be on the list.
Imagine people with questions and concerns, people offended by how the highway privatization was pased with no public notice, no public participation and written by Cianbro being called bullies who don’t tell the truth.
Too funny for words.
Vigue just doesn’t want too much scrutiny on any of this.
Obviously the folk in Lincoln weren’t taken in by Vigue’s glad handing either.
I like your comment yet the term stakeholder instead of property owner drive me crazy.. Only politicans use that term stakeholder..
David,
I am very concerned about the people in Dover Foxcroft not havinng access to the truth about the route of this highway, the State’s inteded use of eminenet domain, the businesses all along roye 2 and 9 who would experiece 100% displacement of all traffic supporting their businesses ( this was teh State’s finding, their experts finding)..they are all stakeholders.
To me that word means people who dderserve a place at the table..people whose interests in a particular project merit a place in deciding what happens.
Believe me, I am not now and neve have been and never will be a politician.
I am a we the people good governmnet advocate.
My goal is to get all the folk I mean when I say “stakeholder”..including the recreational users of he stud mill rd, to the table as co-negotiators, co deciders on this project. Once they get there they will not agree they will not have the same goals or seek the same outcome but I am a stromg believer in the common wisdom and I trust them to make a wise decision.
I thought stakeholder was an Agenda 21 word? Maybe I’m mistaken there.
well, Letsbehonestforonce, when words get used in ways that pervert or confuse their common meaning, it is time for a new word. I agree it is over used and I apologize for using it .
I will find a better word and I will use it..any suggestions?
Main Entry: stake·hold·er Pronunciation: ˈstāk-ˌhōl-dərFunction: noun Date: 1708 1 : a person entrusted with the stakes of bettors 2 : one that has a stake in an enterprise 3 : one who is involved in or affected by a course of action
Dave, I’m with you. The term ‘stakeholder’ is another fancy Business School term that presumes we are all some kind of business school test guniea pig. Landowner is THE proper term. And no Lindsay, your’e not a nerd by any means :} But you are more than right than you know about Vigue’s ‘handjob’. Mainer’s know the difference between lanolin and hoggrease. And Vigue had better learn the difference real quick before he finds himself out on his butt when Cianbro’s Board of Director’s find themselves in civil litigation costing more than the road’s cost’s and start looking for who’s responsible for them being on the news every night.
And as far as Van Scotter is concerned, transparency in discussion, debate negotiation and agreement’s always the goal, not the effect to be avoided. You Sir are one of the main reasons why this mess has disintergrated into the mess it has. LP&P could benefit from a good road, one thought out and planned, not one that’s rushed into being and turning into a M1A1 test track in Alabama. If Maine had devoted the maintenance into Rt 2 and 9 then maybe LP&P might have it’s product going to market quicker, instead of going thru this nonsense and making a complete ‘moose’ out of itself.
Mike, you are exactly what is wrong with the State of Maine. No vision, pessimistic and old fashioned. You look at everything through blinders, just like the party that you represent. The highway has no chance in this State, we prefer welfare to prosperity and people like you are happy to deliver.
Sir, you are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. As far as no vision, well, how much vision does it take to see that this road, when built, is gonna be a direct route from the Coburn / Jackman area, straight thru to Calais, with no stop’s ? Do the math. What’s the distance from Calais to Coburn on this road ?; What’s the fuel capacity of these Canadian semi’s diesel tank’s, that CAN’T EXIT ON TO MAINE ROAD’S DUE TO THEIR SIZE AND WEIGHT, to refuel ?; And what’s the average mileage that these semi’s get running at 75 + since Cianbro’s gonna be the one’s setting the speed limit’s ? Math 101 is horribly simple when properly applied.
As far as being pessimistic and old fashioned, well, is it old fashioned to examine the actual total cost, not just in money but in the WHOLE COST’S of these types of project’s, before it’s begun ? That’s not old fashioned nor is it pessimistic. It’s simply called being responsible and, legally, exercising what’s known as Due Dilligence. In business term’s it’s called a Cost / Benefit Analysis. Every responsible business on both sides of the border does this, in one way or another. Am I all for a road to increase business development and improve transportation ? You bet your keester I am ! But I am not going to give away, which is what this is, the State’s land, it’s authority, it’s responsibility, and most importantly, it’s trust of it’s citizen’s to protect both the public and the business community’s affected (like the small business’s that are gonna be killed by ths road isolating them, with no on or off ramp’s, on top of the we-can-all-see-it-coming toll cost’s) simply so Cianbro can make money at the expense of Maine’s citizen’s. If Cianbro wants to build this road so badly, fine, They put up the cost’s, and the associated means. Maine can decide for itself if this road is really needed or is it just another scam, which is what the Legislature was supposed to do in the first place. That Cianbro is making an Emmy Awards show out of this makes me more than a little nervous. As it has been said so frequently ‘A smile and good looks only go so far. After that there had better be something to fall back on or it’s a long fall to the bottom’. That Cianbro is trying to hide a huge amount of their plan from us all in flowery language tells me that it knows it’s ‘good look’s’ are beginning to run out.
The company store. The company gas station. All owned by Vigue and partners. How about if they are maintaining the roads they claim they don’t have to collect fuel tax? They will pay for the plowing, they don’t have to collect fuel tax? They want cheaper labor so they don’t hire the state or demand no Union drivers? LePage would probably just allow Canadian plows anyway.
thank God these people were not around when I-95 was put in. We would still be goin up Rt-2
Because I-95 north of Old Town is such a thriving corridor of traffic volume and economic activity.
Fact: the Interstate system was built to transport military vehicles and equipment quickly and efficiently. Your traveling convenience had nothing to do with the planning.
That is true, Letsbehonestforonce, but it is there and it is not a toll road..would you say it has had a positive impact on the communities along it’s route? would you say it has brought jobs and opportunity and econoic prosperity to the communities alog the way?
What makes a transportation corridor highpriority is that it links centers where things are happening and where people want to be to the rest of the wolrd. It doens’ work the other way around. Buildig a highway doesn’t create economic growth if it doesnt connect and serve existing business and growth centers. Houlton & Lincoln for instance could benefit more from a faster and better connection to ports or rail centers.
I was only offering a historical viewpoint for those that might not realize it. I love the Interstate system for its easy accessibility for the driving public and transporting goods throughout the United States.
Planning or otherwise, I (kind of) HAVE noticed one or two other vehicles, other than military equipment, driving on I-95 now and then … has anyone else noticed that?
I think you’re making the other side’s point rather well, as to what can come out of smooth and efficient travel routes beyond the initial proposal sales pitch.
Frankly, if the estimates are accurate … connecting the only deep water port on the east coast to Chicago … is probably quite significant.
The military utility was used as a selling point. It had much to do with the planning, but it is not the sole reason the highways were built.
Traveling convenience also had a tremendous amount to do with the planning.
Calling the military transportation the primary reason why the highways were built is not really accurate.
to go off on a big limb here, if we hadn’t had I95 and we were really isolated, we probably would’ve figured out all sorts of ways to sustain ourselves that had nothing to do with money from away. I think more of us would be employed doing the things we needed here, more of us would care about our communities, and our land would be even better cared for… just another perspective.
I don’t know why people assume the global economy is better other than we’ve been pretty well brainwashed by the media and they’re run by big business. It has steadily made a smaller percentage of people richer and a greater percentage of people poorer. And that is a fact.
The Future is Local,
That is not being out on a limb that is being at the root of somethig that makes sense.
Every community in Maine has its traditions, cultures, resources, know how unique to that area and each is capable of applying that to new business ventures and projects if old industries cannot be sustained.
In 12 years living on Deer Isle I have come to see that very clearly. One size fits all policies created in Augusta can’t possibly understand or work to help our island flourish. The State always looks to some big out of state “white Knight” of questionable valor and it seems no one ever thinks of local equity of value added in the local community as a program worth striving for.
When I first came here I was shocked that our two Boards of Selectmen (Deer isle and Stonington) referred to State and federal laws as “unfunded mandates”.
Now I get it.
I am always glad to hear your voice in these venues reminding us that all things that grow grow from the bottom up not the top down.
—-
Gadael, your ‘hidden pipeline’ arguement is well made and more than relevant for us all to consider. More so when you consider that the Searsport to Loring pipeline is now up for bid now. Sometimes all it takes is stepping back and looking at ‘The Big Picture’ from a different angle every now and then. Good for you for your direct approach. You and Lindsay need to meet and talk. The sooner, the better.
The Searsport to Loring pipeline already exists so your point is ??????????????????????????
That the pipeline is already there and was put in, admitedly back in the 40’s and 50’s, but it’s in and everyone both knows about it since it was put in publicly and for a demonstrated need. What’s Cianbro’s sudden ‘need’ ? Like I said, once the eminent domain is transfered from Maine to Cianbro you can kiss goodbye any oversight and protection’s since the Act gives ALL OF THIS to Cianbro.
And Kelo vs New London notwithstanding, once the domain has been transfered, Maine is gonna have to float a loan (can we all say Bond Issue ?) to get it back in order to do it legallly once Cianbro starts spending any investment or development money on this road. This a prime example of bad law, bad timing and complete Legislative abandonment of their responsibilites to protect the public from abuse of power and process. That Paulie and Comapny are jumping on the collecive bandwagon should tell everyone in Maine that there is a whole lot more than meets the eye and needs to be re-examined, for the public’s protection and integrity if nothing else.
….
completely agree. The plan is to run the highway across my land, and I will fight it. If they want to pay me a million bucks, then maybe we can deal.
So it’s a bad deal unless you can make some money off it?
good call…those who villify and neanderthal-ize opponents usually have a hidden agenda…
and it usually means money.
Wait! How did a comment about believers in AGW get mixed up in all of this?
—
This referred report
http://issuu.com/thebostonphoe…
done in 2008 will clearly explain why this would not be a good investment of $300 mil by the Governor. it is 56 pages long but worth every page to give you the facts on this suggested study already done 4 times.
Lets just look at the one real question that shoudl be asked. If built who woudl benefit the most? Well if it is a private road and a toll then the owners woudl but they would not be the ones to benefit the most. The biggest benefit would go to CANADA. This would make getting our Maine wood and even our seafood to there processing facilities faster and cheaper for them.
I’d like to see a similar study done to show how railroads may b do the same, better ,cheaper, and quicker. If the public could see both comparisons done by unbiased individuals then we’d know if either would be a good thing to do.
Aroostook,
You are pointing to the heart of what about this is just really really bad public policy.
All transportation corridors, whether public or private, only get to come into being if they are high priority corridors for the people of Maine. Developers don’t get to pick their own corridors and then garner state support to make that come into being.
This corridor was not on the State’s high prirority corridor list in 2010. It’s never been on the State’s high priority corridors lists.
It is not a high priority Federal Corridors project.
‘We the poeple” decide what kind of transportation corridors best serve Maine communities.
Will you run for office please?
Lindsay, he’s not the first to say this. And he may not be the last. I, for one, agree with him. You have the skills and the ability to get to the heart of the issue. That you’ve got Vigue, literally, paniced enough to start making public denouncement’s tells me that you definitly struck a chord of truth. And when the chord is looked at under the bright light of public interest Cianbro is gonna be wondering just why they let themselves get talked into this mess in the first place by Vigue. They should have stuck to building power plant modules and off-shore component’s. Do and build what you know. Cianbro didn’t and now they have to find a way out. Lindsay, take a big bite and don’t let go !
>>>><<<<
Gadael,
It is active engaged citizens like you..seeking the truth, acting on the truth, sharing the truth that will turn Maine around..that will turn this nation around.
You are on my wall of heroes!!!
Thank you for what you are doing.
Aroostookme,
Yes, many many have wisely asked why we aren’t looking to rail and the existing easements there to improve the transportation of goods and people in and out of our northern areas?
The DOT is supposed to be our transportation planning arm..what the Governor demands of his appointed Transportation Commissioner can only be over ridden and suoercended by a united demand from “we the people”.
We might all disagree on what are the wisest transportation corridor investments to make in northern Maine , but I think we can all agree that MDOT is not serving us well by staying in the shadows on this.
I think we can all agree that “we the people” need a place at the table on this and we can demand in one voice that MDOT provide that opportunity.
It is uconscionable to throw us back on to Vigue for all our information as if MDOT has nothing at all to do with it.
We shouldn’t stand for that.
Be very careful my Maine friends. Study the roads and maps carefully. This road could destroy our/ your way of life and not benefit Maine in ANY way. A four lane highway through the most sensitive part of Maine WILL change our way of life. But it may/will not be a change for the best. Vigue and Cianbro will benefit. Other business men will benefit. The rest of us may lose.
They just approved a 300K study, and already Peter is on his golden throne crying about how mean we are. This is NOT political, it is just a terrible idea with an easy to follow money trail !
I can not believe the comments here. Someone is trying to do something useful, and bring money to this state and you don’t want it. You must be the same people who approve of what wack- job Roxanne Quimby is trying to do to Maine. I know I certainly hate traveling east-west across Maine, Nh and Vt as my wife and I visit family in western VT. What should take about 2 hours tops, takes nearly 4 hours as we travel through small town after small town.
the economic impact on those small towns by bypassing them will close them down.
davidvsgolaith
That is exactly what all the experts the legislature made us hire in 1999 said. That a 4 lane toll rd Calais to Coburn gore would create 100% diversion off Maine roads which are now supporting communities and bsuinesses from through traffic. That is exactly why this corrdior is not a high priority state project/ That is exactly why Governor King and then Transportaion Commissioner committed to continued upgrades of 2 and 9 and also to the Calais border upgrade, just completed.
On top of that a 4 lane toll road was not viable financially as a state project.
Anyone who is interested can read all this from themselves at the DOT website on the East West Highway page.
Really? Ask the towns of Kittery, Wells, Kennebunk, Biddeford, OOB, Portland, Westbrook, Augusta, WTVL, Bangor, and any in between how much those highways hurt them.
1 dollar toll VS $100 dollar toll. your not getting of an on at that price..
Wayno i am so sad for all the inconveniences this causes you. Why not just give the Governor $300 million to again for the fourth time do the research which each time started the deal does not fly as stated by the Peter Vigue’s people of our Country. You poor guy – all that travel, you know the Governor said to keep off the couch.
Your $300 million figure is incorrect by a factor of 1,000.
$300,000 is not a huge sum. It’s the cost of a couple houses.
Come prepared with the right facts and figures before you spout off.
well if vigue gets his way you will shortly be able to do it at 75 miles an hour for a mere $125 each way. Worth it?
So were is the 125 figure coming from? What hole did you pull that from?
Wayno,
I think it is from the 2008 “strictly confidential” rpeort many ere have posted links to.
The range I recall quoted for passenger cars was from $50 to $125 one way.
My issue on this aspect is that the pricing differential should be an up front pormise ..it should be a requirement that local users or Maine vehicles have a guaranteed rate comparable to non privatized toll roads.
Neither MDOT or Vigue has been forthcoming with a cast in stone commitment.
This is to be funded mostly from Caadian Truckers and it is for them the road is being built. They will be payig according to variousVigue quotes and official sources from $200 to $400 per trip.
The research is so easy to do. Vigue plans to violate Maine and ask us to say thank you.
Example:
The most expensive toll-road in the US is the SR-91 in CA at $9.25 for 10 miles.
A private toll road planned in Washington DC – Virginia metropolitan area may set the scene.
How expensive?
Traveling during rush-hour between Prince William County and the Pentagon may pay $41.46 for 36 miles of round-trip commuting.
That is about $1.60 a mile for some segments.
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/482236
In general,tolls on privatized toll roads are 2 to 3 times higher than normal and that has been a major issue with every single privatized highway in the U.S. Complaints from short distance riders has been especially high as all of the privatized highways operate as this one does with minimum exits and uniform pricing gate to gate.
Our fellow blogger who was excited about the possibiity of a shorter and faster trip to visit his in laws is realistically looking at a possible $200-$250 r/t fare.
That should be part of what is pre negotiated but it is not on Cianbro’s list in their 2008 identification of key pre-planning stakeholders.
Thanks for your excellent examples of toll road pricing.
wayno,
on page 46 of the ‘strictly confidential” cianbro/Louis Berger study it says the private passenger minimum for financial feasibiitywas $100 each way in the original 1999 studies.. (links are posted by me and many others througout this blog)
so given 12 years have passed a private passeger fee of $125 is not beyind what may be required and again I am sure I saw that refernced by Vigue somewhere.
oh poor you…. yes, lets destroy the natural character of Maine so you can see your inlaws more often. That’s a priority for me; yes sir.
What character is there in the woods of Maine?
I used to live in Richford, VT, Wayno, and frequently drove between there and Bangor. After we moved to the Calais area, we drove back to Burlington several times a year. I agree that the roads are terrible once you get west of Rumford. But I’m not sure how the proposed E-W highway will help, unless you live north of the proposed route. And then you’ll have the hassle of leaving the U.S. and re-entering. Not to mention the unknown amount of the tolls.
Mr. Vigue says it would cost $12.5 billion to upgrade existing roads to go east-west in the U.S. through ME, N H, VT, NY, etc., to the midwest. I suspect his figures are probably on the high side. Still, if we want an east-west highway for access to the rest of the U.S., it seems the more logical route. Of course, it seems fairly obvious that the purpose of Mr. Vigue’s proposed road isn’t to expedite east-west traffic in the U.S.; it’s for the convenience of Canadians.
So you understand. The roads through VT are atrocious at best. RTE 2 is like a camp road. And we thought roads in Maine were bad.
If it is such a damn good idea, why doesn’t the State of Maine build the road, and collect the fees from the Canadian trucks ? …but then, Cianbro would have to bid, and Irving wouldn’t have a monopoly on the fuel. Who wants their state bisected by a privately owned highway? It’s absurd, and if you think they are complaining now, wait till they have a bite on us !
“The privately funded and owned toll highway could not invoke eminent
domain to take people’s homes, an authority its private investors lack”
no, the state and towns can do that for them.
Your comments are wrong, research and find out how easy it is to take anything when money is involved with the Big Money people. check it out.
That is what I said; the state and towns can do the eminent domain FOR them. It is even worse. Please read the Kelo decision. Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone
Technically he’s right about eminent domain being off the table – except that there’s precedent for American courts permitting its abuse for profit before. In Kelo v. City of New London (2005), SCOTUS ruled that a city in Connecticut was justified in taking citizens’ property by eminent domain and then handing it over to a private, for-profit developer in the all-hallowed name of Economic Development. “It’ll make jobs,” they said, and that was justification enough. This is plainly evil and wrong even by the standards of eminent domain (an ethically dubious concept at the best of times), but our very own Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that it’s legal, and in order for it to reach them in the first place, the Connecticut Supreme Court had to have reached the same jaw-dropping conclusion before them. Unbefriggin’lievable.
(Oh yes, the punch line in Kelo v. City of New London: The project fell through and the seized property is a vacant lot now, meaning this hideously bad precedent was set for no reason.)
The KELO decision is also why so many of us are looking at the potential replacement of Justice Kennedy on the Court when he announces his retirement, presumably this summer. Kelo was, in addition, decided in a GOP-dominated Court. It also caused a massive wave of public outcry, at both local and State level, for said type-seizure’s to be announced in writing in advance, then voted on and passed into law. The catch was that no seizure could occur, and was indeed PROHIBITED without a general vote or specific referendum on the ballot. While Kelo was upheld in a lot of these town’s thru these means, it also kept local control of their land where it belonged, in local hands.
Kelo has also run into another problem as well, namely the fact that there is no development money for these type projects to buid with to be found anywhere. Economic’s, not The Court’s, finally caught up with the system. Karma and money ! You got to admire timing when it all comes together.
If this road is such a money maker why wouldn’t the State get federal funds and build it themselves??
The way it’s set up now is Maine will probably hold the bond for it, then have to take all the properties and gravel at 25 cents a yard then turn everything over to Cianbro.. and the kicker is Cianbro will probably sell the road to some Chinese company for a large profit.. They have sold hyways in other state to Chinese companies.
I like your work Peter. But not this time..
The city of Bangor took like 20 homes and businesses tore them all down at cities expense then sold the land to Shaws for $1 yes one dollar.
Not this time…
You go David.
and I will bring you 5 smoothe stones for your slingshot.
five smoothe stones to topple the giant.
Lindsay I’m the meek. I’m a teaparty Republican occupier.. I believe in whats best for the people and am tired of getting run over by big corporations that buy politicans… Nobody ever says anything to them so they come to the belief they can do anything they want for profit and are backed by politicans whose kids get scholorships from these compinies.
Davidvsgoliath..we are doing the exact same work then..that is my whole reason for being at thi s blog..to point out how big corporations control our legislature and control us
and to stop it
to stop the bananaism of Maine
Cry baby whines over criticism..Thats what the article should be titled. If GOD wanted an East West Highway they would have built it during the 1950’s. Where do you see the real big money going these days? Just look where Warren Buffet puts his money….in the railroads BNSF and CRX. Why doesn’t he buy into projects like EW, because he’s not stupid! Cianbro should start buying up thriving businesses like Danas Grill, then Pete can have the Cianbro Burger his way, without pickles..hold the mayo.
I like the idea of opening up busines for the port of Eastport, but statements Peter Vigue makes about privately owned companies can’t get land by eminent domain is an insult to Maine citizens intelligence. Maybe they can’t directly take someones land/busines. But I would like him to explain how Shaws grocery store on main street in Bangor managed to force Perrys resturant/bar to buckle and sell. Vigues’ credibility just flew out the window!
Wjy is the BDN obsesessed with people’s age? Does the fact that Peter Vigue is 63 have ANYTHING to do with the subject? You do it all the time in stories about people, and political candidates, and I don’t understand it.
hal..when we write about you or refer to you we promise not to mention your age,
Lindsay Newland Bowker, aged 66 ( in a few weeks)
New Brunswick to Quebec.This says it all !!! This isn’t just a highway , it’s a corridor , 5 times wider than I95. The damage to the environment will be wide and long.
If Maine bordered Texas and California, it would be “Texas to California”. That just says the road crosses the state. How does that make it of no value to the state?
I don’t understand the reluctance because the highway connects to Canada on both ends. Unless I am reading the map incorrectly, Maine sticks up into Canada kind of like the boy who stuck his thumb (into a pie) and pulled out a plum.
May I remind everyone that Canada is a friendly country and our largest trading partner?
Lindsay: I don’t expect you’ll be writing about me anymore. The next thing about me in the BDN will probably be my obituary. In that case, my age will have to be mentioned:)
(I’m not expecting it will be in the near future!) ____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4faf076fba87116bb95st06vuc
Lindsay, age provides both a perspective from experience, a realizaton that nothing is free and that cost is not just in money. Someone needs to remind Paulie and Company of that fact. Oh, that’s right we will. Come November Paulie’s gonna get a perspective from the voter’s that he’s never gonna forget. Nor, I suspect, will the Legislature when this whole E-W mess is finally seen for what it is.
PS, Happy B-day !!!!!
Mike did you see my post on the other E/W highway story that the U.S. Senate has passed a bill (MAP 21)that will seriously restict the use of federal funds for privatization of existing highways? It is still pending in the house.
The lobby aginst highway privatization is workers right/unions but also independent truckers who feel that privatization gouges them through tolls that are 2 to 3 times normal toll rd fares. Also in Federal policy there is a general trend away from the use of febderal money (TIFIA) for privatizations that involves toll roads.
That means that if the toll rd went belly up ( and some have based on faulty traffic projections) federal highway policy beng put in place now for the 21st century federl funds might not be avilable. This project is going in a direction that Federal policy is moving away from.
There are stiff penalities in the bill for states that nevertheless encourage privatization which our existing statute , written by and for Cianbro, does without modification.(our statute applies without restrictin to any new or existig roadway, brige or railway in the entire state) So if the bill passes the U.S. House that will force our ill gotten highway privatization statute back before the transportation committee and perhaps, if we do our work well, force it out for public hearings and public discussion.
I am hoping to organize a meeting of interested parties..communities, environmental groups, recreational users and guides of the roads that will be taken, workers rights & labor interests etc. both to force some accountability and transparency on the part of the MDOT and also to strategize a campaign to force repeal of the ill gotten highway privatization statute. I can write a Petition addressed to the transportationn committee, MDOT and every member of the legisilature with background but I think it is important that the wording, the objective and the strategy be agreed to by all so that each major interest group can post the link at their websites and facebooks. I think it is important that it be a united front on common ground on repeal.
If we do it right the petition can drive to a formal repeal petition under state law forcing a people’s agenda for repeal of the highway privatization statute onto the fall ballot. I think it is not impossible to get the 75,000 signatures we need if we do it on a common ground basis.
Hoping you will be the leader for organizing labor union and workers right advocates?.
Anyone else interested in helping in this effort?
One of the quickest ways to defuse opposition and fears is to have open dialogue with those interested and to make information readily available…. not just selectively, but completely.
Why is that not happening?
flyfishermickey
That’s my whole schtick..what about some truth, what about some transparenecy, what about some opportunities for meaningful public discussion and input?.
What about DOT coming out from behind the curtain and doing something helpful in that direction?
And for wanting that, for sharing what factual information and concerns we have here as bloggers because there is no other venue to share it in WE are called liars and bullies?.
I get the sense Mr. Vigue is used to being venerated.
I guess he is getting a taste of reality ..he is noticing hat the overwhelming majority of publc opnion is calling for truth and transpernecy and so far does not trust or want this highway.
So sit at the table with us Peter..we don’t bite or swear or yell or anything like that and we want to bring our servant..the folk who work for us with us..MDOT..that’s right they work for us…
I’ve got an idea….Since Chinbro is in the wind business, why not line both sides of the highway with 450 foot wind turbins.
Mr. Vigue has always been original in his speech, however, it seems he ran out of originality and is using other peoples’ words.
The rich never see anything wrong with something that makes their wallets fatter.
And if you point out the negative consequences of their ill-conceived wallet-fattening plans (somehow they always fail to think beyond the immediate future), they whine about being “bullied.” oh, boo hoo!
How does one bully the President of Cianbro by questioning this project??
The wealthiest 1%, or those who wannabe, always whine about being “bullied” when they can’t get their greedy way. If this guy’s lips are moving, it can be safely assumed he’s lying.
I bet his eyes are brown.
Does anyone else see this as more of a benefit to Paul LePage’s home country……… Canada, more than his adopted state Maine?
What? Attempt any improvement to Maines economy that involves construction and not eco tourisim? outrageous! We need to keep the status quo that is working soooo well.
What a big waste of money Paul I thought you getting out of the hole. But by the sounds of thing this will make plenty of deep holes for the tax payers.
What we really need is train service east and west..
There all ready is
Bring it on! I live in Little Appalachia (Washington County) and would be glad to see something like this to boost the economy down here. I’d gladly be the first one in line to pay the toll!
How exactly will it “boost your economy”?
Please be specific about effects 10 years from now.
How will it not? Please be specific about effects 10 years from now.
Please wait…. His crystal ball is warming up.
You are a smart man…..
“It is very inappropriate to mislead people and not tell the truth and to look after your own personal desires at the expense of others,” Vigue said of the tactics used by the proposal’s enemies. “It’s not right.”
He should read his own words, they apply to him. Bet the majority of Mainers don’t want this, esp the ones whose lives he plans on turning upside down for the almighty dollar. Residents of Maine don’t need this highway, the Canadians do. Why should we destroy a precious piece of our state so Cianbro can have some work for a few years.
It is Mr. Vigue who is misleading people. As he knows, or should know if he’s as smart as he purports to be, that the US Supreme Court case, Kelo v. City of New London, the Court ruled constitutional the government delegation of its eminent domain power to a private entity. So the fact of the matter is the exact opposite of what Mr. Vigue states, that is “The privately funded and owned toll highway could not invoke eminent
domain to take people’s homes, an authority its private investors lack,
and will not harm sensitive environmental areas, he said.”)
Vigue goes on to say “It is very inappropriate to mislead people and not tell the truth
and to look after your own personal desires at the expense of others,”
Vigue said of the tactics used by the proposal’s enemies. “It’s not
right.” Well Mr. Vigue, it appears that your statement on the ability of the government to delegate its eminent domain power to a private entity is at best inaccurate, at worst misleading, untruthful, looking after your and your investors personal desires at the expense of others and, best of all, not right. Turnaround is very fair play, Mr. Vigue.
A topic I have not seen raised is what sort of agreement there would be between the state and the private entity owning the road. Many public-private partnership contracts include a clause specifying that if the private entity does not take in a certain level of income from the project, in this case tolls, the state must make up the difference. The London tube was overhauled in a public-private partnership and after the London bombing ridership was way down, and the government was forced to pay the private entity to make up for the drop in fares. I have no doubt that this will be part of the agreement between Cianbro and their partners and the state, hidden somewhere in 100 pages of small print.
How is this not good for Maine? Town adjacent to the road can take advantage of the traffic dollars; towns can advertize themselves to attract tourist dollars. The town of Eastport will greatly benefit increased International Trade- Maine will literally open its door to the world. Trucking businesses will increase production, There will be a need for storage of goods; real estate will grow, business involved directly can benefit from increased growth, This will be the shot that Washington County and other parts of Maine will benefit, take hold of the future its coming weather your on board or not.
How about rail instead of a highway? More efficient.
First the tracks need to be totally redone. The railroad have has not kept there track up to snuff . The tracks are so bad that they can only go 10 mph. Now say a box car comes into waterville yard at say 7 am that car going south may not leave the yard for 14 hrs .
Got to love the headline….Throw the latest buzz word”bully” in there…
Enough with co-opting the word bully. You’re in a huge position of power, you’re not being bullied.
Oh poor little Peter, did those mean Sierra Club toughies kick sand in your face ? Ah-nold would call you a ” girly-man” !
If the Sierra Club had there way nothing would be build no interstate ect
easy to get the products over-seas so our jobs can follow…just saying
Here’s a thought …how about a north -south highway in this state?? I realize that most people don’t believe there is life past Houlton (where I-95 ends) but hey there’s the rest of the entire county that has no access to the interstate until they get to Houlton…..just a thought.
Agreed.
Home Depo and Wal-Mart paid millions for the land they sit on in Bangor.. How is Cianbro going to buy the land along the proposed highway??? If They got halfway done and were comming through my land, there would have to be alot of zeros behind the first 2 numbers… Real market value is suggestive. one minute you land is worth $1,000 an acre the next a million an acre… So that is where the State becomes involved and takes your property for $1,000 per acre. and gives it to Cianbro… They can’t build this Road without using the State to steal the land for them…
NO MORE CORPORATE WELFARE!!!
Why does Ron Paul followers , tea Party and the occupiers exist.. Because of the corporate.
Hey Vigue, cry me a river. Your the one that wants to throw Mainers out of their homes, farms and steal their land. All just to make some money from Canadian Trucking Companies building an express way for them.
If this highway is so important to the state than way is the state not doing it , seams there is money for a lot of other projects?
I believe this is a wonderful idea , environmentalists should welcome this with welcome arms -hundreds of thousand of gallons of fuel not used on the secondary roads of maine -big trucks staying away from population centers…. rapid transport of injured and sick… its a win win for all.
Of course they should. But, they won’t. Instead they’ll focus on the fact that trees will have to be cut down, millions of blades of grass will need to be sacrificed, and the final kicker for them is that PRIVATE funds, NOT taxpayers will be footing the bill. You know, the “dreaded” private sector. In other words people stand to make…. wait for it…. a profit!
A highway from Canada to Canada wow!! ST. Johns Canada to Sherbrook Canada
Everyone should take note of the predicted explosion in container shipping. Containers laden with foreign made products, 99% inbound. Whether we like it or not, the world is becoming one big market place. Maine had better figure out a way to exploit what we have, or we are going to get left behind, if we haven’t already. Eastport is our biggest asset, if we can get the products in and out efficiently. The east west highway is our best bet, especially since it will be privately funded. The only thing I would change is that I would get a wide enough right of way to double barrel the highway with a high speed rail line.
The road is supposed to have a 2,000-foot wide right-of-way. How much wider do we want it?
Voice, believe it or not I agree with you, and probably so does Lindsay (thought we haven’t talked yet !). Maine indeed has both rail and a proud history of railroad’s being used in the State. It just needs to be re-opened, upgraded and maintained properly. I’m not a math whiz but if someone could do the costs’ of extending the rail lines from Brownville or Bangor to Eastport to accept these kinds of ‘container train’s’ and match it, dollar for dollar, against what the E-W Highway is gonna cost then I think we would all have a much better idea as to the true cost’s of this mess and maybe find a better way to do it in the process. That and a similar port for Calais since it’s already been looked at for the old LPG tank farm that ran outta gas (Sorry, just couldn’t help myself :} ) would be a real good fit for the rail idea. Cate St is gonna be looking to ship their new bio-coal out. There’s no reason for that same port, sending bio-coal out to Europe, not to accept container ship’s coming in, moreso since Portland just put it’s container crane’s into shutdown due to a lack of containership business and volume.
If some posters are correct in the assertion that Cianbro will make tons of money from this proposal, then doesn’t that point to the fact that a market exists for this product, and that people want it?
It can be a boondoggle, or it can be a money-maker, but it cannot be both.
It is equally true that if nearly all reasonable people thought that building this highway is a good idea, that the Sierra Club and other groups would still oppose it.
Furthermore, even if the highway is a tremendous benefit to Canadian interests. that doesn’t make it a liability to Maine, does it? After all, Route 401 in Ontario benefits Ontario, even as it benefits me, should I be traveling to Detroit or to other points in that direction.
You know, folks, Peter Vigue could have good intentions, just the same as the Sierra Club, or for that matter, you do. After all, even though he also has his own interests, as does Cianbro, so do you.
That last sentence is a hoot!
In what way?
Cianbro will make its money in the construction of the project.. I’m pretty sure the road itself will be in another corporate name.
Methinks Buddy should disclose that he is a transportation consultant.
I’ve been rather open in these blogs that I am a civil engineer, ex-DOT, and was Region Manager in Bangor before retiring.
If you have been paying attention to other comments that I have written in response to East-West stories, you will also note that I have expressed the opinion that connections to the Albany, NY area seem a better idea. The reason why I advocate Albany rather than Montreal, is twofold: 1) a connection to Montreal is then dependent on Ontario 401, which has congestion issues; 2) from Albany, Interstates 90 and 86 offer underutilized routes to the Midwest, with a relatively short trip down I-81 leading to Interstates 80 and 76 (Pa Turnpike).
I don’t have any stock in Cianbro, have never worked for them, and except for one instance in the 1990s, had little contact with them while I was at MaineDOT.
I will also say that Alan Grover, the PR gunslinger at Cianbro, is a personal friend since 1971, and played shortstop while I pitched in high school.
Any more that I need to disclose? Oh, yes, I have a class A CDL with a tank endorsement, and drive part-time when the consulting is a bit slow (and to maintain my sanity, as working in the public transportation arena can be a bit stressful).
I have nothing, repeat nothing, to gain from anything Peter Vigue says or does. In fact, if you mentioned me to Mr. Vigue, I would be surprised if he gave you anything other than a blank look. I’m just a one-horse consultant operation that works more with an information system than with anything else. It’s just that I can’t stand seeing people take (anonymous) pot shots, as if discussing the latest conspiracy theory. It smacks of envy over the fact that Mr. Vigue has been successful in keeping a very solid company going, as did the Cianchette brothers before him.
Wait a sec — maybe I do have something to gain. Thanks to you, I just decided to text my friend Alan Grover – maybe PV will be so impressed with my impeccable credentials and unerring logic that he will see that he absolutely has to have me on his team. Hey, BigPaw, thanks!!! Maybe I’ll catch up on the credit card bill at last!
Thank you, I appreciate your honesty, and I apologize if you thought I was insinuating any connection between you and Cianbro. I harbor no envy towards Peter Vigue, but I stand adamantly against any private ownership of what should be a public road, if it should exist at all. Furthermore, I doubt that this venture is beneficial to the State of Maine, and thus I argue against it.
EDIT: P.S. Should an E-W highway be deemed necessary, I would agree with your Albany route assessment.
The route to Albany presents a lot of problems, though. Not just Maine, but New Hampshire, Vermont, and New York have to come on board; the terrain is difficult, with mountains and lakes; and it would cost a lot of money. I still think it would be good for the USA as a whole, not just Maine, as deepwater container ports in NY/NJ are maxed out, Louisiana is on borrowed time, etc.
I think that might be why Peter Vigue is emphasizing the connection to Quebec. I think that should also be done.
Thanks for your post.
3 hundred thousand dollar study.. I would hope the Study money isn’t going toward his road shows to gain support for the highway..
I don’t believe it’s PR money Peter
Next lobby for a law to force truckers to use the highway.. It always gets better.
Follow the money. Two Billion Dollars. Two Billion before they find out how to add costs to the taxpayer, then just watch the tolls go up and up and up.
Not sure if a East/West Highway is a good idea or not but I definitely don’t want to pay a toll to a for profit company to pay for using it.
Dear Mr. Vigue the public has Figue’d u out!
`I would be all for this as long as the union guys and gals get some work, and not just cianbro and, some phony partner, like reed and reed.
How many trucks will they need to pay tolls in a 24 hour period to break even? I think I read somewhere 2800 day which would mean one every 1.9 min. going at break neck speeds past our homes and towns in Piscataquis County. It will also mean hundreds of land/home owners willing to sell or property being taken by eminent domain in the small towns of Abbot, Guilford, Sangerville, Dover, Atkinson, Charleston, etc. Many people will be so disenchanted by the state that they will move – and move far away. Many people in the Dover area are sick at the thought and do not expect jobs or other economic gains. As others have already said these trucks will not be able to get off the highway because of weight and size. Do people actually think families with children will want to travel on a road with huge tractor trailers going 75 miles per hour and with very limited access and a huge toll. I don’t think so. It will also make getting around our small towns very difficult. Locals will have to drive long distances to get around the highway or reach an over pass. costing them money and time. Because they want to do this on the cheap and for security concerns there will be as few road crossings as possible. Our communities will be divided. This is not a good idea for central Maine towns, families and farms.
How did we get so many leftist, anti-business, anti-progress people in this state? This is about as much of a no-brainer of an idea that I’ve ever heard, and we get to hear from so many of the socialist boneheads who are against this idea, for whatever reason? I don’t know where these loons come from? Maybe if we shut off the spigot of free welfare benefits and other left-wing programs that are so popular in this state, some of these free-loaders will go back to where they came from? I can’t believe that they are all originally from Maine? Mainers used to have a reputation for having common sense and being hard-working, but now we’ve been overrun with a bunch of non-producing, nanny-state-loving knuckleheads. It’s just pathetic!
what potato farmers in aroostook county take a ride through the county and you will see all the farms are being sold off to amish families this state has had it people…. corporate greed alright Cianbro will Benefit one way or the other remember when they brought in illegal immigrants to work on the rigs in portland also the manufacturing facility in Brewer paid out of state construction firms almost twice as much as their own men to come in and do the same job
I agree, there needs to be an east west highway, BUT, this is not the option! It would help big business, (I AM all for big business, seriously) but not so much for the everyday Joe.
Cianbro certainly would be helped, but the biggest “helped”, would be Irving. Last fall they were awarded a 24 BILLION (yes, billion) dollar contract to build warships for the Canadian government. Awesome, and will be a help to all the maritime provinces!
This route will afford direct access to the midwest for all the Irving shipyards in NS, PEI, and NB!. All of this is great, but why not just build another lane near present day route 9?. Or just add more truck lanes. And along with this, why is work planned to go ahead on I-395???? If this highway is built, route 9 will be history.
I love all about this, but why not just do minor upgrades on rt9, extend 395, do major upgrades to route 2, out of Newport, to the border!!!! With this, there will be big help for all. Individuals, plus business!! After this road is finished, build a road from Ashland to Quebec, and get northern Maine on the grid, also!!
The whole east west thing should have been done years ago, but I feel this is the wrong use of money. Coordinate all things, instead of work independently on this. (Private AND government)
Careful Jack. You are beginning to make huge amount’s of common sense and practical perspective open for public appreciation. Thanks and thank God someone finally did !