DOVER-FOXCROFT, Maine — Only a few empty seats remained in a packed Foxcroft Academy gymnasium as Cianbro Chairman and CEO Peter Vigue answered written questions about the proposed east-west highway from a sometimes hostile crowd on Thursday evening.
Vigue quickly pointed to the economic benefits of the highway for a region that is struggling.
“I remember what Brownville and Milo were like. Today, it’s a skeleton of the past. It doesn’t need to be that way,” said Vigue.
Vigue talked to the crowd while presenting slides to illustrate points. Sen. Doug Thomas, R-Ripley, also helped answer questions.
Vigue became visibly upset when some members of the audience repeatedly interrupted him while he was answering questions about the potential that the project would require use of eminent domain to take land, which he said would not happen.
“I asked you to do one simple thing, point out one time that I have misrepresented the communities in which I worked in,” said Vigue. “Tell me that we abused the people, the community or the surrounding land owners. And that is not the case. When I tell you we’re not using eminent domain, we’re not.”
Vigue said the highway is needed and expressed his opinion of the value Eastport could have as a shipping hub in the transportation of goods across the highway to their eventual Midwest destinations.
“I don’t need to tell you how desperate the people in Washington County are [for jobs],” said Vigue.
He provided a slightly clearer picture of where he envisions the proposed highway would be. The 220-mile toll highway would start in Calais and end in Coburn Gore. He said again that the highway would not go through any communities and it would travel south of Dover-Foxcroft and north of Dexter.
Vigue said he wouldn’t divulge what exact path the highway would take, claiming that outside groups may intimidate landowners and tell them things that aren’t true.
Six exits are planned at interchanges in Calais, Interstate 95, Routes 15, 23, 201 and 16/27. Two other exits in Washington County also are possible, he said.
When asked how the highway would create jobs, Vigue pointed to how I-95 has helped create jobs in nearby cities and towns.
“It speaks for itself. If we do nothing, what will we look like and where will that take us?” Vigue said, stating that Piscataquis County has a 9.9 percent unemployment rate.
One person in the audience pointed to Howland, which is intersected by I-95, as also having a high unemployment rate.
Vigue did not give an answer, which led several people in the audience to shout, “Answer the question.”
Questions were raised about reinvesting in the railroad infrastructure, which already runs east to west, instead of building a new highway.
“If the rails are the way to go, then why have they not done significant investments?” asked Vigue, saying that shipping by rail was not feasible for small businesses.
Vigue said twice that he believes property values next to the highway would not go down but may actually increase.
One question focused on the possibility of a referendum being placed on the ballot regarding the project.
“I don’t think it needs a referendum,” said Vigue.
A protest was staged across the street from the school before the meeting with several people voicing their concerns while others held up signs opposing the highway.
They just need the east west highway to run the power they will be creating in the old Moscow Air force station to Canada. Nothing to see here just another snake in the grass.
Seems unlikely as Canada already sells power to the USA. And, what is wrong with promoting business that will hire people and provide jobs? Moscow could use a few jobs right now.
Throw in a prison and nuclear dump site. I’m sold on the idea.. we need more jobs!!
We already have land-fill mountains. Why not? A Super-Max prison would be a good deal – maybe Limestone? Runway and everything. Nine months of the year any escapees would freeze to death, the other three months the mosquitoes would get them.
The nuclear dump site? From what I read in the news, that would be Maine Yankee’s former site – in for a penny, in for a pound.
Ultimately, what will these jobs be after the highway is done? Picking up litter?
Oh, no, highways of this size require constant maintenance. And, being privately owned, it might actually be maintained.
Thats right,
and going east and what are the highest east west elevations for more of those monstrocities in the Dover Foxcroft Charleston Garland area? Thats right Bull hill, Oliver Hill, High Cut all in or around the State owned Land known as Bud Leavits Land. Some of this was set aside for Wildlife management not for Private Roads for Private Investors to reroute Canadian traffic!
I own some land in that area and had a lawyer show up in my yard a few years back trying to sell me on wind power!
I do believe thats why they wont tell you where it really is going!
The likes of Milo and Brownville won’t get any more out of this highway than places like Medway, Benedicta, and Island Falls have gotten out of I-95.
Places in southern Maine have done well because, like it or not, the world economy has changed and southern Maine’s economy more or less has the products the world wants all while northern Maine’s clothes pins, wooden toothpicks, and newsprint are in decline (or made much more cheaply in China) and one more highway or railroad isn’t going to change that any more than the relatively decent major secondary roads already in place have.
This east – west highway is being built for Canadians to use to easily cut across Maine along with new, mainly Canadian utility corridors and as such, except for some fuel and Big Mac sales, there is very little in this for northern and central Maine at all, excepting Cianbro’s owners and employees.
Added on edit: Come to think of it, one of the few economic success stories I’ve seen in Aroostook lately is what the Amish have done in places like Fort Fairfield and Smyrna, what with all their new small businesses…..especially in Smyrna…. man, that town was in dire straits before. Now I hear the Amish are starting a new settlement in Hodgdon too. Maybe we should be encouraging more Amish to settle in the towns along this highway route if the towns are hurting so badly. Except, of course, I wouldn’t expect the Amish to be using Peter’s new highway all that much so of course, they’re no use to him or Cianbro.
beltrams,
You point to an important truth about why the economy of northern maine has collapsed and to the absurdity of of Vigue’s continued assertions that this road will turn that around.
It began with the collapse of Maine’s place in the pulp and paper industry decades ago as the industry itself shrank globally and consolidated to new demand centers like China.
I just finished reading a really fascinating Harvard Law study outlining all that and pointing to the reality that Maine’s legsilative response to those permanent realities has been incomplete and ineffectual. It has actually set northern Maine up for decades of contuing decline and exploitation by white knights of questionable valor who are here not to create or save jobs but to squeeze whatever value they can out of timberlands.
Vigue’s highway is a trojan horse that represents more of this same failed stratgey for northern Miane..more false promises of jobs and prosperity that really just facilitates the interests of a few private landowners and Mr. Vigue’s desire to “build the bridges”.
Echo Easement Corridor LLC , a subsidiary of Interational Paper who control the 66 mile long Stud Mill Rd and a 2000′ wide corridor on which it is centered said in court papers that they stood to gain $353 milion if the E/W highway is realized.
The East West Highway is a way for a few large exploitive land holders in the UT to realize increased value and income from their UT land and petrhaps in this case without even having to pay any taxes or fees to the state .
Mr. Vigue knows that..he is orchestrating that. he says his company has spent millions on this project and that he only wants to build bridges. Does that make sense to you? Does that sound like truth?
Mr. Vigue knows there are no benefits to Maine or Mainers from this road..expert after expert has said the same thing. The causes of northern Maine’s decline were fundamental and our failure to recover is a rseult of failed legislative and economic policy at the state level.
It is just ridiculous to assert that a fully fenced limited access rd connecting Coburn Gore to Calais is the answer to that decades long history of decline.
Ridiculous.
He wants it cause he wanst it. And ’cause he wants it..alll of that impact and disruption is to be emdured. Delusional and egomaniacal.
In the early 1900’s Houlton was second to Brookline, MA for millionaires per capita in the United States. Now look at it. Mostly it is due beating the dead horse of the woods and potatoes. The closing of Loring didn’t help much, McCains in Easton has cut off County trucks in favor of a company out of Springfield, MO, and there are no new ideas to make up for all this lost work. The old families still hold sway, and they want to maintain the status quo. There are two Maine’s. We need to stop pretending there isn’t. This road is being built for the Canadian’s not us. Vigue puts me in mind of a great line from “Meet Joe Black” where Anthony Hopkins’ character says, “Don’t blow smoke up my a ss. you’ll ruin the autopsy.”
Dane,
A really powerful and insightful analysis..and it strikes me as truth with a capital T
Truth
My further sense is that it is the culture of the Maine Legislature and the lack of vision for decades that has failed Houlton and other Miane communities. The Miane legsilature has sided with the exploiters..allowing them to extract profits from devalued northern holdings without guanatees of jobs or without conditioning benefits provided on jobs not promised but actually created..
I haven’t been to Houlton for years and years but I have been curious to go myself beacuse of some of tthe good news stories coming out of there. I love that Twenty Two Vodka has taken international prizes..is locally owned by young Mianers who “came home” and usues local product in new ways.
I loveed tthe Bison Pump story in the news not so long ago..that show cases the kind of deep,y ingrained knowledge and know how many Miane communities possess drawing on history and deontic” knowledge pased on generation to generation. And there was recently another bright light story about Houlton that struck that chord with me.
I believe deeply in th power of Maine people to regenerate their own lives and communities out of these unique resources and know how inherent there. Maine has to move towards recognizing and supportimg that insteda of to one size fits all policies and propping up the old regime, as you so wisely charcterize what has happened.
You are right that the Esat West Highway is more of that..more of propping up the old regime and not at all about deep commitmnet to and faith in the self regenerative power of Maine communities.
It is deeply offensive for Vigue, an Aroostook lad, to betray his home county in this way.
Dane, outstanding ! Truly a moment when truth and fiction came together made history. And not without a lot of reality behind it as well !
Again, Lindsay, I ask: What is your plan to return prosperity to the economically hobbled counties of our state? You seem quite adept at hurling stones at the ideas and integrity of others. Let’s hear your plan for prosperity, please.
Giving it away to corpprations to facilitate their exploitation of Miane and its people is not the path. Doing major legislation that aiuthroizes privatization of Miane’s infrastructure behind closed doors in secret is not the way to go and does not show good faith with Mane, woth Maine people.
I don’t hurl stones..I just turn over rocks and share what I find. I try to put out links to documents and facts so that people can judge for themselves who is served by this highway.
Lindsay, “answer the question.” Let’s hear your plan for prosperity, please.
This is More than a Interstate Highway as it is a shortcut Through Maine for the Trans Canadian Highway!
Who elected Peter Vigue the International Road Commisioner?
Private Road?
Who is the intended Owner?
Saudi Arabia or Iran?
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/23/title23sec4251.html
I always thought it would be a better thing to be connected to our neighbors than not. You sound a bit xenophobic. Are those evil Canadians going to eat your children??
No, they are going to Drive”” Right Through”” my yard to get their other province!
I didn’t move “”Out”” of the City to be driven over!
I moved here to retire in the peace and quiet!
“I moved here to retire in the peace and quite!”
That’s “quiet” a lot to ask, apparently.
Pardon me !
Duhbya!
Mean…
Sense of humor on vacation? That was tongue in cheek levity, for crying out loud! Mean?
BAH!
We have a right to make a living here no matter where you choose to retire. You and others like you who come here to retire think that your need for peace and quiet somehow now overrides our right to gainful employment as something other than your caretakers.
You’re wrong and you can feel free to go elsewhere.
We live here.
There are plenty of cows to milk, land to seed, tractors to fix, wood to cut and we don’t need Canadian Truckers Zooming by to get it done.
Ayuhh!
Us home grown mainuhs can work the fields for the rest of our lives without ever hoping to do anything but be a nice rural backdrop to your fine retirement property.
Heaven forbid we should ever want to earn a decent living and maybe retire ourselves someday. No sireee, we uns should just throw on a few extra pieces of flannel and shut up and let you rich outta stateaa enjoy your well deserved rest in the woods while we chop your wood.
What is your plan to help Mainers get jobs, Dlbrt? Or perhaps this is not a concern of yours, as it is for other leaders in Maine?
Named one of the top companies in the USA, employee-owned, and employing hundreds of people. He started as a road worker himself and worked his way through the ranks.
In what way is he “throwing someone under the bus?” Because he wants to bring business to Maine? He wants to hire more workers? What a ghastly concept!
ChuckGG,
I think what is really going on here is a further plan for private sector diversification of Cianbro already expressed in his applications for ownd projects. The highway is a $2billion private franchise that furthers Cianbro’s corporate stratgey of briadening its base in the private sector and diversifying operations.
I have no objection to CIANBRO’s corporate strategy and applaud his goal of trying to keep CIANBRO’s investments and business interests as Maine focused as posisble.
But trying to sell this as something that benefits Maine and Mainers when expert studies have cosnsitently said that is simply not the case is not honorable and not honest..it is not the action of a person of integrity and leadership.
What makes you an expert on integrity and leadership, Lindsay? What leadership roles have you assumed in your lifetime? Why should we believe in your absolute reliance on your favorite experts? Why are your experts any more qualified in matters of economic development when compared to someone like Vigue who has a proven track record of creating economic opportunity in Maine?
” The Road will go South of Dover Foxcroft and North of Dexter “!
Now thats a “Magic Act” !
Read his Propaganda , he says that the owners have NO eimenent domain authority,
However, the State Does to connect the segments that they own!
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/23/title23sec4251.html
That sounds better than “…the road will go right through Garland”!
——
Where is the proof reader? Headline story? I do believe greats should be greets.
She, her red pencil and cat’s eye glasses on a chain have joined the ranks of the typewriter, the Dictaphone, and the Frigidaire. What shocks me the most is to read the news crawl on TV. You’d think they could get that right – spell-check and all. I have seen prepared graphics shown on TV with spelling errors, usually homonyms. Just as in this case, the spell-checker is not a grammar-checker.
It should have been – Hostile crowd “grates” Cianbro CEO!
Cute…
What’s a greets ?
…”greats” Cianbro CEO…?? uh…great (I think). :P
I think “grates” Cianbro CEO would tell the real story.
I drove down Stillwater Avenue to Broadway today with my wife’s little Mazda 3. That road is a mess, and i couldnt help but notice every road i traveled after that…side roads off of Center street are better than most of the Main roads in Bangor. Ohio St, Union St, parts of Broadway, all need serious work. I-95 as we traveled southbound to Dysarts for lunch is also filled with cracks and potholes all over the place..no work being done anywhere on any of the road previously mentioned…Tons of work out on 1A as usual. Tons out in Bucksport and of course tons and tons of work down in Southern Maine…Why in the world do we want to fund ANOTHER highway when the infrastructure in this state is already falling down all over the place. Isnt the idea to balance the budget and then start spending and building jobs for the people of the state? How do we do that if we go and bury ourselves in debt on a huge project such as this? Sure Chiambro loves it, they get richer and richer. Im sorry but they are not the only company in Maine, and certainly not the company that is strggling like so many others. This needs to be put on the back burner, long after Lepage is voted out of office and once we get our house back in order.
There are two different economic concepts. Many economists feel you have to spend your way out of a recession. Reagan did it and so did others. Your comment that the idea is to balance the budget and then start spending and building is the other concept and one espoused by the Tea Party crowd. “Let’s cut everything until the deficit is gone and then we can start spending.”
Well, it doesn’t really work that way because if you cut too much spending then the economy screeches to a halt. You can’t have everyone stay at home eating beans heated over a can of Sterno and expect the deficit to disappear. There won’t be an income to the State in the form of payroll, income, and sales taxes. Businesses won’t be contributing taxes, either because no one has any money to buy anything, which means they fire everyone and go out of business, throwing even more people on the unemployment lines, and so on.
The neo-GOP crowd (aka Tea Partiers) believe that cutting taxes to the quick will stimulate business and sales. In a mild recession that probably also would work but in the Great Recession, it would have been a garden hose on a forest fire. Everyone was in circle-the-wagons mode and not spending a dime. Consumer confidence was zero which meant no discretionary spending. The whole purpose of the Cash-for-Clunkers program was not to save gas or get clunkers off the road (as the TP backbenchers believe) but to get Bob & Sally to buy a new car because Ted & Jane across the street just bought one. And, it worked.
I do not see how the debt paydown first is going to be effective for Maine. You are going to have to have the infrastructure first in order to stimulate new business. Sure, cut taxes and regulations, and do all that, but that is not the meat-and-potatoes of recovery. We can multi-task. The world isn’t linear. Do “all of the above” and get things going.
Say what you want, but the highway is going to hire a lot of people and those people will earn money and spend it locally. Once people have more than two-nickels in their pockets, they might spend a little more. The economy really pivots on confidence and if a person has a job that will make a huge difference. LePage is doing some things right with trimming old legislation but I think he is missing the boat on a global perspective. His experience, as we all know, is as an end-of-the-supply-line discounter. We need someone at the front of the supply-chain.
We have to spend a bit to grease the skids of the economic engine. I look at the stimulus funds for the Downeaster train. What a great success story! Even without the funds the train expanded to 5 round-trips per day from North Station to Portland. Now, the extension to Brunswick is a real winner. Brunswick stepped up, put in a shiny new terminal with restaurants and shops and is the poster child for expansion. The already existing line from Brunswick to Rockland is working on getting Amtrak to run all the way through to Rockland. What a deal! I could get on the train here in DC and travel all the way to my family home in Maine (plus a 45 minute drive from Rockland). Remember years ago when out-of-state kids would travel by train to Maine for the summer camps? Reminds me of that. This is just a small example. I’m sure there will be some wet-blanket telling me it will never work. Perhaps, but at least we tried as opposed to sitting on the sofa with a bucket of KFC paid for with unemployment checks.
You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Or, you can sit back, starve the chicken to death until your feed bill is paid from the egg-sales proceeds of the now dead chicken. It’s up to you which you think might work best.
“You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Or, you can sit back, starve the chicken to death until your feed bill is paid from the egg-sales proceeds of the now dead chicken. It’s up to you which you think might work best.” ChuckGG (post baove)
so , ChuckGG, I think I am ctaching on now…to translate:
the chicken ( northern counties) stopped laying eggs decades ago when the paper industry collapsed)
Instead of getting some high quality feed for the chickens so they could lay eggs again three decades of state policy continued to let the chickens die and be used and take advantage of by all kinds of charlatans who were buying up and liquidating what could be salvaged from the farm all the while neglecting the straving chickens and promising eggs.
now a new savior has come telling us that if we allow him to build a 4 lane superhighway the chickens will lay eggs again.
Thanaks Chuck.. I get it now.
Yup. That’s how the feed gets there. Might even bring in a few young chickens, some with a French accent, and they might expand from eggs to coq au vin. With the new coq au vin restaurant you obviously need an Espresso for dessert. Since both the Espresso and coq au vin is so good, the (admittedly cannibalistic) chickens in this analogy invite their feathered friends along for a weekend or a stop-over in Maine while enroute to the seaside coop in St. John. There are so many of these landlocked Torontonian “Chickens of the Sea” [even I gagged on that one] longing for the seashore that business booms and the former farmers in The County open another B&B to handle those chickens during their casual two-day trip to the sea.
I’m glad you got it. I wouldn’t want to wear out the chicken analogy…
Don’t think folk from Toronto would be driving to the maritimes..at least no one I know in Toronto drives to the maritimes.
Also I think Montrealers may indeed end their long standing love affair with Old Orchard and south and use the highway to sped right on through Maine non stop to the really beautiful less costly and more pristine beaches there. And so do many experts.
All of this benefit is only in your imagination or borrowed from Vigue’s out of your loyalty to him..There is NOTHING in this for Maine..nore does he believe ther is..read his own Lousi Berger report and you will get it.
Actually, I do know people who live in Ajax and Whitby on the east side of Toronto who drive to their summer home in St. John. Going over the top of Maine takes 14 hours(?) so this would cut down the time.
As far as OOB business goes, it just might cut in there but I’m not sure. I hear they actually speak English in St. John and that would be kind of a turn off for the folks from Montreal (!).
ChuckGG..
I can hear that you drank the Vigue Kool Aid.
But as you will see in increasing ly more draatic number opposing and exposing tgis atrocity for what it is, most of Maine has not drunk the Vigue Kool Aid.
Lindsay, how could you possibly know that “most” of Maine opposes Vigue’s plan? In fact, I believe a poll was released in the past few years that named Cianbro as the state’s most admired company, which completely contradicts your point of view about Maine people’s trust in Vigue.
Hi Brandon,
Mr. Vigue has been inconsistent and secretive and straight out untruthful about this highway. I too have been among those who admire the company but his conduct on this highway, is less than admirable. This isn’t about the popularity of Cianbro, this is about a private franchise that threatens many communities and business, according to studies by MDOT, and according to those same studies will not bring baout the economic benefit Vigue claims. Vigue claims Cianbro will not be the owner or an investor in this highway, that he only wants to build the bridges. So it is the project itself and its merit for Maine that is at issue. In all the blogs at all the papers every story about the highway brings more and more concern and opposition. A project of this magnitude cannot be as Vigue wishes behind closed doors in secret deals.
Were you at the Dover Foxcroft session, Lindsay? I’d be curious to know if you were one of the questioners who put their skepticism to Vigue point-blank, which he willingly allowed. I’d be interested to know if you would get in front of a “large and sometimes hostile” crowd for three hours to defend your plan to provide jobs in the economically depressed portions of Maine. I’d also be delighted to hear what that plan is, as I’ve not heard your thoughts on this matter to date.
I am very glad for every person who took the time to go to the Dover Foxcroft meeting..you too..it’s that kind of citizen engagement that will bring more wisdom to our legislative process and bring better results for the people of Maine. I wanted to go but it is too far for me to drive on my own. I look forward to seeing the video and have video’s of the other meetings.
I am grateful for your engagement. My aim is towards truth and transparency on any major project, especially one of this magnitude, the largest project ever undertaken in the State of Maine. We may all disgaree on what to do about the fcats once we have them but I I beleive we are entotled to have them. Asking for them is honorable. Witholding them is not.
I am also glad for your engagement, and in talking with you, I have learned a lot about this proposal that I didn’t know before. From my point of view, though, I think you are taking unfair liberties with the integrity of a person you don’t even know who might just be trying to help his fellow Mainers. When you do that, you lose credibility in the eyes of some folks, such as me for what it’s worth. And as I’m sure you know, and anyone would know just from sitting and thinking about it for a few minutes, coming up with one’s own effective plan for helping the dramatically depressed areas of Maine is a tough task. Also, with regard to Vigue’s “dishonor” for withholding information: you and I would not even have had this discussion if not for Vigue’s willingness to put himself in the line of fire for three hours in Dover Foxcroft to talk about his plan and answer scores of questions. Let’s keep talking about the idea, with civility if you please, and maybe we can learn together.
Yes..that’s it Brandon. We must keep trying to get the facts and information out and share it with one another so we can talk from a set of facts and not just from pure opinion or blind trust.
I hope you will take the time to read Vigue’s report in his own words and decide for yourself how that jibes with what he says at these public events. Read the highway privatization study and its legislative history..compare that for yourself to what Vugue has said publicly.
Yes civility. But the truth, Brandon is always civil. That’s what I try to do here. Seek the truth share what truth I know and link others to the documents so they can verify for themselves.
Brandom, I got up in the middle of the night to help my aged cat who is dying. I didn’t expect to be up in the middle of the night having this exchange with you but I am glad we worked it through and happy with the ground we both now stand on together. You are right..we must keep on tgis together.
even though the paper industry collapsed, the potatoes and blueberries are still doing well. we can’t eat them all so we need to ship them somewhere don’t we? might as well save a few dollars on transportation costs and feed it back into the community.
I’m reading to learn and have not yet made up my mind on this, but I do have some questions…would an east-west highway relieve some of the traffic on any of our current highways and roads?…when Cianbro makes money aren’t there other companies making money at the same time (heavy equipment contractors, restaurants, suppliers…)?…I’m a little confused about the spending part…are we investing or do they have investors and a plan for maintenance?…Hasn’t this been on the back burner for many, many years already?…Having LePage in office has been a challenge in many ways, but should his occupation of the Blaine House keep us from doing what needs to be done to the extent that we can?…Why isn’t the train route being used more if it is already in place?…Is there any hope for passenger rail service to come back to Northern Maine?
This has been on the back burner for years, because it never would have made it to the front page without the Penguin administration being in power. They are all about cutting regulations, bending rules and preaching down to the people of Maine. All of which would be required to build a highway on top of people’s land. This road is a perfect deal for Vigue, he just needs to get the State to step up and do the heavy lifting.
Private solution, private money, private work……Peter’s solution just needs the government to get out of the way……….. for public economic benefit.
What Vigue is specifically NOT TELLING YOU is that when Cianbro wants a piece of this 2000 ft wide land that it’s gonna be MAINE that is going to declare eminent domain and have to pay you for what CIANBRO is willing to pay, not what the land’s market value is worth. And what no one, to this point, has even begun looking at is exactly where Maine is gonna get the money to pay these eminent domain bill’s with. If LePage, and Cianbro for that matter, think that a eminent domain order, a cup of coffee, LePage and Vigue’s good look’s and promises are gonna pay the tab then someone needs to reserve both of them, and whoever else jumps on this bandwagon, a set of room’s at Dotty Dix quick ! LePage, to his credit, has stated publicy that he is not gonna sign off on any more Bond’s until the State Budget is fixed. Fine. Then tell me where Maine is gonna get the cash to pay for these Cianbro ‘I gotta have’ land appropriation’s from cause if the State Budget is that tight then the only source of revenue to pay for the land’s is from some type of Bond. If Cianbro needs these 2000 ft wide pieces of land so badly, then they are gonna have to step up and put their OWN MONEY into the pot. Vigue, it’s time to put Cianbro’s money where it’s mouth wants to go. Raise, call or fold. And with the elections coming in November, well, I wouldn’t wait to long to make up my mind.
Mainers will determine the difference between your opinion and real world solutions that will provide their jobs.
And I am all for it. But they need to do it with ALL THE INFORMATION on hand, not just what Cianbro wants to try to sell everybody. As the Bible states “My people perish for a lack of vision”. Sorry but I can’t remeber the verse #. But it’s right on for both accuracy and relevance.
Vision is desperately needed and exactly what Gov. LePage is all about regardless of whether anyone agrees with his vision or not. The Governor’s vision includes the emancipation of businesses from governmental strangulation as exemplified in this case.
Information is good and to be informed is a good thing but Mainers know instinctively that the process of doing exactly that is like turning on a light bulb out in the backyard and then watching all the political moths and stinging lawyer mosquitoes fight for it.
Mainers are sick and tired of the nit-picking and the fighting that results in…nothingness…and their loss of jobs.
Seems to me Vigue already has provided all the “vision” here.
What’s lacking, are the “details” you appear to demand. Is there a verse for that?
It also makes perfect sense that Vigue refuses to provide all the “details” at this stage fearing ludites will sabotage the project before any permits have been applied for.
If this were such a good project, wouldn’t it stand on its merits even if all the “details” were known?
Vision?
{$$}
__
20 —20
Peter the Pickpocket Padding his Pockets.
You’re wrong on most counts.
The capital will be from private sources, not tax-payers.
Vigue has stated, “No Eminent Domain”. Until proven otherwise, I take his word on that.
While I disagree with the entire notion of Eminent Domain, it’s a legal process that requires many hoops to jump and the lands value is Market… not what the buyer wants to pay.
I don’t see where LePage is an issue in this at all! Certainly another governor will be in place before any holes are dug, much less permits received by the (many) authorities.
=-=-=
“No Eminent Domain”.
Ha! Ha! You believe that?
WOW!
Then show me where Cianbro’s getting the money to pay for the land purchase’s. To this point all Vigue is saying is ‘Private Investor’s’. Please, do we all here in Maine, above Bangor, appear brain-dead or it that Vigue’s assumption being made public ? Cianbro has made, or shown, absolutley no attempt to inform the public as to the cost mechanics of this much vaunted Highway’s Plan and associated financial arrangement’s. This alone tells me that there is no financial plan other than Cinabro getting the Highway’s construction OK from Maine and then depending on Maine to use eminent domain whenever Cianbro runs into a landowner that’s not ‘going to go quietly’. That and their already planned out toll fee schedule. Folk’s this whole issue of private source’s is nothing more than a smokescreen until Vigue puts out VERIFIABLE INFORMATION. Until that happens he’s gonna be skating up Mars Hill in July for all to see and enjoy.
Vigue put out three hours of information at Dover Foxcroft, including about 2.5 hours answering questions from the audience. Where were you?
Where do you get your information from? You seem to have an inside view of the plans which are private from what I have learned. Please share some more, I’m sure you are talking only facts here.
Some of you really need to start reading what is being taught at the business school’s. Harvard’s, and Wharton’s, Business School’s are really pushing the ‘Cut you neighbor’s throat’ text’s as examples of business ethics, economic development and business / community cooperative development. So is Stanford’s Business School, though to a lesser degree to be fair to Stanford. You want to see just what our ‘Business Leader’s of Tomorrow’ are learning you might want to get a copy of their Business School’s Reading List. What you see, and read, is a far cry from the days of responsible economics and government involvement in the business community and cycle as outlined by such greats as Adam Smith and, yes even him, Keynes. Screw and lie to get ahead are now required moral’s as far as the business community is concerned, at least the business community that’s decided that small business’s don’t count.
Principled business’s can, and will, make a profit. But to do so requires that business’s operate and communicate with their customer’s and the Govt’ in a responsible and timely manner. Does that mean that business has to divulge every part of their business plan’s to the public and Gov’t in order to operate ? Heck no! But it should, responsibly, require them to tell the truth to both sides when the business wants to make an investment that impacts the commuity as a whole. Vigue, instead, has done just about everything wrong that he could. The public uproar, and worse is yet to come by the response’s seen here, is building and is even now causing more than a few folk’s to start asking themselves the obvious, but not ‘politiely’ asked question’s of just who is really in charge of this and who is gonna really gain from it. Petey, it only gets worse from here on out. Time to ‘pony up’, ‘fess up and try to make a fresh start. And given the mess that’s come outta this so far, one would almost bet the farm that your Board of Director’s wouldn’t object all that much either. Those that do need to be asked just what ‘Outside Interest’ they have in this mess being kept going ? The answers may not be pretty but it’s better that you find out now as opposed to it being found out later in the press and having your ‘short’s’ dropped for the ‘you-know-what’ that going to ensue. Seen it at a lot higher level and it is not pretty. Think ENRON, Skilling, the selling of The Brooklyn Bridge and you are getting pretty close.
PS; The statement by Vigue about a referendum vote should give everyone a big clue as to just how serious, and scared, he is about this whole thing. Public scrutiny does make a difference. Vigue’s statement proves that beyond question.
Vigue must have bested you in business somewhere along the line for you to hold such animosity against him. By the way, you did not answer the question posed to you by Entitled. And given the number of grammatical errors in your writing, I find it hard to believe that you read texts from Harvard. Also, it does not appear that Vigue is afraid of public scrutiny, given the fact that he put himself on the line for three hours in Dover Foxcroft in front of a “large and sometimes hostile crowd.”
“What Vigue is specifically NOT TELLING YOU is that when Cianbro wants a piece of this 2000 ft wide land that it’s gonna be MAINE that is going to declare eminent domain”
The proposed right of way is 500 feet, which you would know if you had listened to Vigue’s presentation in Dover Foxcroft. Your confusion arises from the fact that part of the highway would be built on the Stud Mill Road, which currently possesses a 2000 foot right of way.
“Why in the world do we want to fund ANOTHER highway when the infrastructure in this state is already falling down all over the place.”
From what I’ve heard, this is a project that uses $2 billion of investment from the PRIVATE sector and does not use taxpayer dollars.
As noted above: Cianbro will own this new highway and all tolls paid by citizens will go directly to them. Yep, using public land (eminent domain will happen despite what Vigue says!) for a private company to profit. Treason!
You address the cost of the new highway but not the problems with infrastucture. If Maine has to use its “Eminent Domain” to help a private company, and most think they will, then they are in business together meaning its not as private as one may think. It also still does NOT address the issues of a failing infrastructure within the state or terrible Marks from the Department of Transportation? SO what gets done about that? How about we allow the East-West highway so long as Chiambro also fixes our infrastructure for FREE?…I could agree to that.
what does cianbro have to do with our state owned roads? I agree our roads suck, but really, you want someone to just offer to fix them for us. and as far as eminent domain, what if they do end up having to force it onto 5 or 10 people? I know most corporations that need to buy out land for building pay a very good price, if they are smart they will take it and move a mile away.
“Large, sometimes-hostile crowd greats Cianbro CEO…”
That pretty much solidifies it: there is no copy desk anymore.
Definitely one way to get the hillbillies of Maine to come out of the woods and into town,lol. They were hostile before Mr Vigue even had a chance to speak. Git the shotguns out,Abner!
A desperate man searching for simple answers. He is pumping for his own retirement.
And what is your answer, simple or otherwise, to Maine’s economic ills?
I myself don’t see where the east west highway will help out Mainers. Yeah with the extra work Cianbro may need to hire workers to complete the job, I see that.. But how many workers we talking bout 5 maybe 10.. That’s not really enough job creation.. After the highway is completed how is this new stretch of asphalt gonna help Mainers? I am not for this new highway till that answer is given, where it makes sense.. If they wanted to create a highway lets say from Fort Kent, maybe Presque Isle or other parts up north, to somewhere connecting to the 95 then I will agree this is a good thing.. Right now there are thousands of trucks that travel rt 11, rt 1, and rt 1a. Not just American trucks but Canadian ones as well.. There are so many accidents caused by these trucks on those small roads.. I have a relative that was struck by a speeding truck many years ago and is confined to a wheelchair as a result.. Just last winter a woman was struck by a speeding truck on black ice and she perished on her way to work at a Grand Isle restaurant called Cravings.. I remember going through Canada to get to parts in New York when i was driving for a northern Maine trucking outfit.. Many truckers do this because it is actually safer and shorter and faster.. I say building a highway in that section is feasible but i don’t see east west doing anything but helping the Canadian’s, save fuel.. And right now can we really afford it? I believe we should be creating real sustainable jobs not temporary ones.. Hire workers to fix the infrastructure we already have.. Our highways and roads are full of ruts and craters they are rough as hell causing thousands of dollars of damage to our cars each year.. This is where we should be putting our money.. For once Liepage think of Mainers and not Canadians..
Dear Happee2beme ( love your name and the spirit it conveys)..I am right with you on this. Vigue is traveling the state with no details at all on the road itself making claims of economic benefit to Maine that have been specifically refuted over and over and over by experts funded with tax payer money. Those studies , over and over, have said this will not bring benefit to Maine and will actually bring harm to communities along route 1, 2 and 9 whose livliehood depends on existing through traffic.
It is really absurd that Vigue and his pals at The East West Highway Association refuse to accept the judgments of world class experts like Wilbur Smith and continue to offer their own contrary r opinion and expect the public to accept it as of the samee caliber or quality to recognized experts. ( In Vigue’s case and excercise in supreme egoism..he obviously umagineshimself as some kind of people’s hero)
Even Angus King, a East West Highway Association member or supporter ( along with Eliot Cutler) after the 1999 Wilbur Smith report,ordered by the legsilature and paid for by we the people, as Governor, accepted these findings and emphasized in his written summary that the wiser strategy for the State is to imporve routes 2 and 9 and acuqire land along the row to provide for future expansion. (avaible at the E/W Highway page at Maine DOT’s website)
It’s hard to believe all of the negative posts about Vigue and Cianbro. Cianbro is employee owned, has hundreds of employees, pay thousands upon thousands of dollars in taxes and is just plain good for Maine yet you find people saying “Vigue would throw anyone under the bus to pad his pockets” or the highway is being built for Canadians to use to cut across Maine (to or from where we don’t know) or he will steal land via eminent domain which is an outright lie or any number of other lies or idiotic statements. No wonder Maine is what it is when this is the discussion we have concerning private investors wanting to build an East West Highway with private funds and paid for by charging a toll to use the road. No rhyme or reason to oppose, just oppose for the sake of opposing because Peter Vigue and the employees of Cianbro might make a dollar or two for building the road. Shame on them!
Let them take “your” land that you worked for all your life and change the very nature of the quiet peacefull town that you aspired to retire in to the State to give to an indeferrant buisness man to cash in on for the road only used for a Foriegn Country!
Then I will Post that there is No Ryme or reason for “you” to oppose!
Your handle there entitiledforlife implies that you are for indivdual responsibility!
Did that, aquired my own land only to have some Entitled Buisness man have State Law rewritten so that he could profit off from a shortcut for another country at my expense!
There can be NO EMINENT DOMAIN! It’s private, remember?
Put your think’n cap on!
Do you really believe that this Highway completely across the State of Maine has already been acquired completely with private land? If it had there would be NO need for a Feasibility Study and the permiting process would have already begun!
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/23/title23sec4251.html
Read #7.
Calais….on the border with Canada. Vigue & LePage (both French) are pandering to their Canadian friends and relatives. They could give too chits about Mainers or how much this will cost Mainers in the end.
Of all the ignorant things that have been said on this board…yours is the most bigoted.
I guess that Kay forgets that Canada is British ! “Kay” cera cera !
Kay,
http://portland.thephoenix.com/news/137988-whats-driving-the-east-west-highway/
That really came home for me when I read Vgue’s own secret report, released by MDOT to investigative reporter Lance Tapley ( se link above)
It isn’t about Maine or how much Maine need sthis road or how great it will be for Maine..It mentions Maine only on the context of the obstabcles our present environmental, truck weight and other laws and regs present this project with. It is listing all the red tape and help Vigue expecets from Maine DOT to make this project reality.
This is Vigue in hi s own words, words he never expected any of us to ever see.
The truth about all this is right there for anyone to read and see for themselves.
No one is against Cianbro or Peter Vigue..I think they should teach what Vigue is doing at the big business schools like Harvard and Tuck and Sloan..but the E/W Highway is a different kettle of fish.
He is traveling the State as a false prophet claiming this is only about Maine and bringing Maine back and what he says has been negated by experts time and time again. Read the Can Am study yourself that Vigue quotes form so often..it contradicts what he is saying in his dog and pony show.
Read his own 2008 “Strictly Confidential” Report with partner Louis Berger & Associates..doesn’t Mention Maine once except to list the obstacles Maine now presents to his grand plan. Where the people of Maine figure in Vigue’s plans is very clear in his own words in his “strictly confidential” report. We are just an inconvenient obstacle to his private franchise.
Why do you believe your experts are so infallible, Ms. Bowker? And what have you done to bring Maine back? Since you have so much expert knowledge about what WON’T work, perhaps you can tell us what WILL work.
The experts I refer to are those chosen by MDOT an d paid for by “we the people” . The credentials of these companies and their recognized expertise is public information.
Is the MDOT part of the same state government that you have assailed in this thread for being so blind as to have neglected rectifying the poverty in economically depressed regions of Maine? Also, please tell us what your plan might be to rectify that poverty.
To be honest, I haven’t really figured out where MDOT is on all this. I am grateful at least that their website has an East West Highway Page and that all the studies they have done are posted right there for anyone to see along with their own Executive Summary and the Governor’s statements.
I agree with you that we need to have a broader discussion on programs and policies that will serve Mainers and not just corporate exploiters. One Maine is starting that process now with a discussion on how to get corporate influence out of our legslature. If the culture of our legislature doens’t chnage , nothing can change.
It seems evident from your answers that you don’t have an effective idea regarding the economic revitalization of the state’s depressed regions. I can’t blame you, really. I don’t have a plan either. It’s definitely a tough nut to crack. I will say this: Vigue pointed out in his presentation in DF that there are several corporations that provide significant numbers of jobs and significant investment in Maine’s poorer counties, including McCain’s, TD, and Emera. He said we should help them to thrive in Maine so that they can hire more people, rather than view them as “the enemy.” He also said that shipping corporations that use new deep-draft vessels could be enticed to use our region to land their cargo for shipment to markets in the midwest, if ports like Eastport are brought into the picture and connected to the midwest with the help of the EWH. He believes that these shipping corporations are not the enemy either, but are potential allies to help bring better economies to Maine’s poorer areas. He also said that there are wide varieties of Maine citizens, such as those who live in the Eastport area, who are pretty happy with the EWH idea. Do his ideas have merit? I guess time and the people will ultimately decide.
Brandon, I think you are approaching the truth ofwhose interest are represented..McCain’s, TD, Emera..add to that the profiteering and exploitationof the speculative UT landholders and Cianbro’s own corporate ambitions for expanded Maine based revenues and you are beginning to see the truth about is behind the East West Highway and what they want out of it. It did not escape my attention that these corporate names have been all over Vigue’s ppwer point and other presentations.
On the containers, Vigue is not quite up to date nor are the die hard supporters of the three port strategy. Again, something anybody willing to to do the legwork can find out for themselves. The global expert opinion on the panama big ships is that that that will further the consolidation of container ports to a very few U.S. ports already dealing in high volume and already having extensive infrasructure acessing the markets that will purchase that high volume. Maine is not now and will not be one of those ports. Spending money to dregde our harbors to 50 ft depths will not bring those ships here. Globally he ontainer industrt is shifting and consolifdting to a larger volume in fewer ports. That’s a fact. We should be looking instead to new technology and new ideas that do make optimum use of what we can import and export using our harbors with an emphasis on building our trading partners beyod Canada with who we have a negative balalnce of trade and export or Maine product, not just our natural resources, with value added in the local community . Robert Melrose is not in touch with what is happening globally.Vigue’s pitch on our ports sharing in the Panama big ship container shift is pure nonsense. Pure hype.
How do you KNOW Vigue’s pitch is pure hype, Lindsay? Because you’ve read some expert opinions? Again, why are your experts more knowledgeable than experts like Vigue and the professionals that he cites, who have a proven, hands-on track record in creating economic opportunity for Maine? Is it not true that congestion exists in the popular, connected ports that you reference? Why is that not an adequate reason for shippers to seek other opportunities to move their products, with a potential windfall for ports like Eastport if Eastport is prepared when the opportunity arrives? Also, can you explain why the companies you mention, which employ Mainers and invest in Maine, are the enemy? Why is it bad for companies to generate more economic activity in Maine, thereby putting more Mainers to work? Lastly, please tell us again your plan to create jobs, especially in light of your desire to discourage companies in Maine from earning a profit.
Brandon..I think you are just avoiding doing your homework..I have done mine..I have shared links to the documents that have lead me to every statement I have made in this venue about this project. My work is not to persuade you.
It is your choice to make. I don’t seek to dissuade you from it. If you are perfectly comfortable simply believing what you learned at one meeting Brandon, if you are willing to risk all that is at stake on Vigue’s word alone, that is your choice.
Vigue is counting on there being enough like you who are willing to buy his hype, invesigate no further, and ask no reasomsble questions. I am sure he will be glad of your support.
It’s not that Cianbro is bad. If the Vatican were proposing this road I think the response would be the same.
Business and religion are both the enemies of the left.
But the Vatican is bad…
This is a shining example of why Piscataquis County always ranks in the top three for highest unemployment rates of Maine’s 16 counties. Hardscrabble…the way life should be, I guess.
LOL, they buy orange hats, get out winter gear to dress and “talk” like a real Mainers, great political theater or insult to our intelligence?
These days we’re all about solutions, right?
There are myriad numbers of reasons why politicians have avoided suggesting solutions despite the promises they make while combing their hair, brushing their teeth and pumping hands for our Maine votes.
Here, in the case where one of us Non-Government Mainers like Peter Vigue with the nerve to propose a privately funded solution to the lack of jobs (especially in northern Maine) the politically connected groupie chanters who would deny us our futures crank up the broken recording of…
“NO WE CAN’T”.
Here is an alternative Idea!
If this truly benefits the State of Maine and the United States . Build it with Maine and Federal taxed revenue and use the tolls to pay for it!
Stop this political scaming that we are taxed to much to defund the government in order to let private companies to decide the fate of the nation just to put a few bucks in their pocket.
Sounds like you think that we need the government to do everything for us. How do you know that the tolls wouldn’t be eliminated after the road is paid for like our own turnpike was “supposed” to. What about the tax revenues on the tolls? Do you think it would be just free money for Vigue? What about the additional fuel taxes the state would get? What about the taxes on the businesses that would locate along the road?
Why would you even consider trusting a government who already lied to us about the Maine Turnpike?
This doesn’t mean that anyone should have their opinion formed on this idea yet, just listen to the idea, and wait for all the information first before tagging Vigue as a dirty profiteering 1% person.
I get to vote a government official to represent me.
It’s called a representative democracy.
Vigue represents and answers only to the Investors!
Its called a Corporate Dictatorship.
{{How do you know that the tolls wouldn’t be eliminated after the road is paid for? } Answer; —–Greed!
but you don’t have to travel the road. if they raise the tolls too much and people stop traveling it, the road will fail. I would trust a corporation more then our government at this point. The tolls will be there for the life of the road, just like us down south here for that pay to travel the pike. I hate paying tolls, but I also know that roads don’t heal themselves.
Get a clue!
Your distrust for the Goverment, comes from the Corporate influence!
He’s talking about building a four lane divided highway across the entire State of Maine. When it’s done, he’ll own it and the toll booth on either end will stream money directly into his wallet. He won’t show the public the proposed route, because doing so will require him to be honest about the likelihood that he will need eminent domain power (which he will only get if he can persuade the State to back him).
I agree that people are being a bit over the top. But I support their efforts to demand more transparency from this plan. Mr. Vigue should publish a map of the proposed route and let that speak for itself.
wow. get a clue. The people of Maine will own the road.
blanc12..according to statements made by Vigue at many different public places it will be privately owned and operated. In effect it is a private franchise in the same way that a department store or amusement park is a private frachise.
But with one MAJOR DIFFERENCE, that being that Maine, not Cianbro, is going to have to be the one to declare eminent domain and then use Maine fund’s (that no one can say where they are gonna come from) to pay for the land under these same eminent domain provision’s. No where in any of this do I see where Cianbro has any financial investment in this project other than making a bunch of promise’s and press conference’s and ‘public meeting’s’. Maine is not gonna see, if ever, any money off of this Highway since it all goes to Cianbro. Now, who’s paying and who benefit’s ?
There isn’t one part of this that Maine is supposed to pay one penny for other than this study. The rest of your posting is just as wrong as your first false assumption.
xxxx
A private person can’t take and Maine has no stake in it to take so no I don’t believe anything will be up for ED.
As for the land I believe we are dealing with a man who already has people who will sell lined up for his route. I know if I owned a big chunk of that land I would be glad to sell him a pretty pathway right through it. Especially if I was granted the rights to a service Island or two on that highway. Money in the bank!
=-=-=-=
You are right Ea6bmarine. In court papers Echo Easement Corridor LLC, a subsidiary of International Paper, who control the Stud Mill Rd and the 2000′ corridor Vigue has frequently referred to,testified that they stood to gain $353 million if the E/W Hway is approved. Kennebec West Forest LLC who own the land under and around the Echo Easement also own big chunks of land on which the other other logging roads referenced by Vigue are. The East Wesy Highway routes Vigue has variously referenced would create enormous profit potential for these two large interests along with Plum Creek who, as we all know, have interests in the vicinty of Greenville. Assuming this plan can demonstrate feasibility to investors, and that has so far not been the case, the owner up to point of rider rejection controls tolls and can guarantee a rate of return that is higher and steadier than other investments. Whether investors would get involved without a state guaranty remains to be seen but the idea is to have more or less gunateed fixed income via the tolls set at a specific level above actual osts of debt service and maintenance.
maybe that is one reason for not announcing the exact path location? just a guess.
///////
It will be taken. Only a matter of time before the tea party will pass a law giving Le Page the power to seize townships, that are not of any benefit to the state’s economy.
A similar law is being appealed in Benton Harbor, Michigan. Unfortunately, petitioners were told that their petition was set in the wrong type font. Gov. Rick Snyder is attempting to seize Benton Harbor to enable his friends to construct a millionaire’s country club.
If it can happen there, what’s to stop it from happening here? Eminent Domain could be re-titled “Emergency Financial Management Bill,” just like the tea party’s Snyder did in Michigan. Reading it is a shocker.
ea6marine
Under privatization legsilation which Cianbro wrote for theselve in secret and got passed in secret in 2010 this road can both be completely privately owned, completely privately financed, the owner can get all revenue but the state can also use eminent domain and MDOT Commissioner has not ruled that out.
Also under that statute Cianbro wrote for itself in 2010 with no public notice, n o public hearing “privately financed” ncludes th eposisbility of the state guanateeing the private debt or even taking on a debt obligation via bonds ( TIFIA , Federal bond program specifically for deals like this) and either strught out assigning it to the private “owner” or subordinating that debt to the private debt.
So Vigue is not being totally truthful in addressing public concerns about any of this.
Also, who is eoxected to build the $35 million border imporvement.. What about all the public roads any route east well will have to use to connect up all those private logging roads?
When Vigue starts being more truthful, the crowds will be more respectful.
No one respects falsehood. No one should. False and misleading statements and false promises of benefit do not merit respect.
Feel free to link to this legislation.
ea6bmarine
Yes here is the link to the legislation, may apologies:http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/23/title23sec4251.html
I also ordered from the law library and have in document form all of the legislative history which is not posted up anywhere. If you like, I am happy to send that to you ( aor anyone interested) that set of socument. email me at lindsaynewlandbowker@yahoo.com
It is in that legsilative history that I found the statement by a legislator before the committee thnaking CIanbro ( along with Maria Fuentes and the Maine General Contrcators Association for authoring the statute. I will bring a quote here by edit if I can.
Appreciate the info you posted. I have no doubt in my mind that Vigue and the powers that be know exactly what they are doing and just how to some how slide it thru. I am glad people are paying attention and asking questions.
Dear talkingtrashagain..
and I am glad you are counted among us, “we the people” who insist on clarity, transparency and truth.
It may have dawned on Vigue today that if several hundred turned up in Dover Foxcroft to demand this that there must be thousands of us who are standing together speaking to one another actively connected to one another and insisting on truth and transparency and that we are way smarter than Mr. Vigue takes us for.
How easy it is for several thousand to become tens of thousands very quickly. And it only takes 75,000 to repeal this legislation on highway privatization that he crafted for himself to facilitate this outrageous project.
Every time some water boy publishes a pro East West Highway piece we who were a few dozen, become a few hundred ;then a few hundred become a few thousand. with each new pro East West Highway Story more facts, more links become available via the blog where people can read the truth for themselves..and then we are a few thousand more. The few hundred new truth seekers who read and join us here on every East West Highway story represent a few thousand willing and ready to act.
A few thousand people let’s say 6,000 now actively organized and engaged..couldn’t each easily get 10 or 12 valid signatures on a peition to repeal this outrageous secret highway privatization statute?
Wait and see Mr. Vigue .
Wait and see.
If several hundered turned up in Dover Foxcroft.. I say piece of cake to get the 75,000 we need for a citizens referendum on the ballot this fall to repeal this statute.
Stay tuned.
Be one of the 75,000.
Be one standing up for some honesty and truth for tthe people of the northern counties.
You talk about how easy it is for several hundred like-minded people to become several thousand and tens of thousands, etc. One thing to remember: there appeared to be more supporters of Vigue’s ideas at the Dover Foxcroft presentation than opponents, in my opinion — hundreds that can become thousands and tens of thousands.
And that would be great..that’s exactly what should happen..privately owned and controlled 4 lane , fully fenced limited access road straight across Maine deserves a complete and open public forum with facts not just promises.
It was dishonroable to write a highway privatization statute in secret with no public input and no public notice. I hope that is repealed by public referendum and that we can start over with all Mainers at the table weighing in on whether and how they want to privatize Maine’s bridges and roadways.
Given the three hours of public discussion and Q&A that Vigue provided in Dover Foxcroft, and the hundreds of comments on this thread, I would be inclined to say that you and I are getting exactly the sort of open public forum that you and I believe should happen.
there might be a point in there somewhere but the typos just distract me too much. I guess I just don’t speak Allen’s. ;)
Michael.. you are right..too many typos and I should edit more carefully..my apologies.
Run for office will ya!
The rest are all in their pocket or asleep!
Thanks for your efforts, you wont be forgoten!
Sir, ‘supposed to pay’ and seeing the actual final bill for this are 2 very different thing’s. Remember when DIANE was introduced and all those fancy promise’s were made that it would make bombing more accurate and increase stand-off distance’s ? How many guy’s in your VMB Squadron found out differently in reality ? Promise’s on paper and seeing, and counting, the flight line’s empty parking spot’s are a very real lesson we all need to learn. Some of us just need to be reminded of it from time to time.
Right, lets close I-95 too, that was a stupid idea and has done nothing for Maine, just lined the Federal Governments pockets with money not to mention the Maine Turnpike Authority. Are you really that narrow minded?
I-95 was built for the express purpose of being able to move troops and equipment around the Country in the event of a National Defense Emergency. This E-W Highway doesn’t even come close to meeting that requirement for construction. Not unless you consider the Canadian Army a threat to Maine sovereignty. And that’s one I’d pay beer money to see !
Just like you told us this road would only have 2 exits, No ON or Off Ramps which you were wrong about. What is the excuses now from the Enviros that we will destroy the air LOL from the amount of cars and trucks on this road. The bottom line is this road is going to be built permits are likely for it next year as admitted on the news last night with first shovels soon after. The Liberals are in denial because the majority of folks in the 2nd District want this road they want the economic growth and prosperity that will come from it. Something they would have never gotten from that goofy park that Liberals were ramming down our throats.
Hello darkcat33..wouldn’t be a complete gathering in thuis venue if you hadn’ turned up.
Not sure what you are on about with this your 8th or 9th paste on this two exit thing..I posted that once from a quote by Vigue that appeared in the BDN. If he never said that, the issue is with the BDN, not me.
I will say to you what I always say to you. What I seek is the actual truth about this project..the actual facts of its route, location of exits, commitments to local commercial traffic and autos on rates comparable to MTA per mile, a binding promise not to use eminent domain. etc. etc. etc.
Instead Mr. Vigue travels around the state like a vinyl siding salesman, a snakeoil salesman, repeating over and over and over that this is for and about Maine when the experts have said over and over and over it is not good for Maine.
Mr. Vigue seems to have fallen in love with more than his determination to have this road buult. He sems to have fallen in love with his own hype, hi s own reflection the pool, a modern day narcissus.
The more he speaks, the more lies we catch him in..like his denial of any knowldege about the privatization statute when it is official record that Cianbro helped write it.
He is not being truthful with any of us..you most especially..you the loyal.
Loyalty s a very preious thing..vest it wisely in those who are worthy of it.
Your the person on here who said it would only have 2 exits, no on ramps/off ramps etc.. With you telling us about bogus studies from the King Administration an administration that did nothing for Maine that was very corrupt in the eyes of most folks. The Libs are deep denial if they think just because they got 200 Treehuggers in the room that those of us here in the 2nd District don’t want this road they are defintely wrong. This road while not the best proposals would be the start of turning this area around. We are tired of the Environmentalists telling us what we can’t have. They fight everything. Now that their park is DOA not happening they want to attack good Maine people who care about growing our state like Mr. Vigue . They have to resort to attacks , threats to the point Mr. Vigue needs bodyguards and police protection. It is deplorable and despicable to think Liberals and Treehuggers have to resort to these tactics. They can’t fight on facts and figures. As I stated to you in a previous article I think this highway ends up a little further south in the middle and western sections. I think it comes close to the Skowhegan/Madison and Farmington areas in the long run then head to Canada. Because these areas will see major growth business and population wise in the next few years , it would benefit from this highway if it came close to them.
Again darkcat33..all of tthe studies I have referred to and provided links to many. many, many times are right there for anyone to read for themselves.
The experts over and over and over have said not that we can’t faford this road but that there is no benefit in this road for Maine. Vigue simply asks us to believe him not the experts.
Darkcat33, when you sit down and actually read these factural actual reports, most especially please read Vigue in his own words in his “strictly confidential” report ( link posted here), when you speak from pure fact instead of pure faith in Vigue, you will speak differently.
Haven’t you noticed there are fewer fewer voices with you in support of this. People are waking up to the truth and they will act on that truth.
There are fewer and fewer voices because they’re tired of talking to the brick wall of
misinformation, conspiracy theories, and plain craziness that’s in these comments.
The truth is crazy. This road is a disaster in the making. It’s for the benefit of Canada and Canadian products.
Vigue is a very successful business man, I doubt he would be willing to go forward with this if he was just going to be losing money. I see it as a done deal as long as Cianbro still wants to go forward with it as I assume most others that support the project do. I still do not understand the problem with building a road that will help many economies at the same time.
000000
Losing money?
Whos money?
When they start pumping Tar sands oil tru a broken pipleline onto Maine farm land and ask the taxpayers to clean it up, I ask again,
whos money?
You obviously were not at Vigue’s presentation in DF either, when he said there are no plans, and never have been any plans, and won’t be any plans to pump tar sands oil through any pipeline along the corridor, if for no other reason than there already exists an oil pipeline that runs across Maine.
I didn’t go to the Horse and Pony Show because my Hip Boots aren’t high enough!
Since you chose not to bother to attend the presentation, then there is no excuse for your ignorance of the topic and your misrepresentation of the facts.
The only economy being helped or benefiting is gonna be Canada’s. The Highway, as proposed, is planned as starting on the Canadian side of the border and ending on the Canadian border on the other end. That’s it, no interchange’s, no on or off ramp’s, no local access ramp’s, nothing ! This Highway is not gonna benefit Maine one bit since it’s a totally closed road, Canada to Canada, with no stop’s in between. The only possible option, and this one’s gonna be real interesting to watch and see, is if Irving tries to get Cianbro to run an Annex off of it to Bald Mountain for Irving’s ore to be transported to the Canadian smelter’s in Ottawa. That happens and Vigue might as well make a dash for the border since even Maine’s GOP Legislative Caucus is gonna be out after this ‘whozit’s’ when they realize they got played in all of this for sucker’s.
You obviously were not at Vigue’s presentation in Dover Foxcroft when he said there would be six on/off ramps and more if local communities wanted more. I wonder why you are so hostile toward Vigue, enough to speak obvious falsehoods about his ideas.
Lindsay, what makes the “experts” you’ve fallen in love with so infallible? At least Vigue has a proven record of job creation in the state of Maine. You criticize the integrity of a person who has a long record of honorable efforts on behalf of the people of Maine as if you are some sort of anointed expert on job creation AND integrity. Please, before attacking Vigue as a “modern day narcissus,” take a quick look in the mirror and ask yourself, “how many jobs have I created today?”
Brandon,
Mr. Vigue’s goal here is to build a corporation and create in state income for that corporation. He wants to build all the bridges he says. ( although he denis that Cianbro will be in any way an owner or investr inn the road????)
Here is what MDOT found about this idea of Vigue’s and the East West Highway Association: http://www.maine.gov/mdot/1999eastwesthwystudy/reportlinks.htm
“Construction of a new 4-lane limited access highway between Calais and Bangor would result in a substantial diversion of traffic off existing Routes 1 and 9. A new 4-lane alignment .. would remove nearly all of the existing traffic off of Route 9, as well as cut projected future traffic on Route 1 by roughly 2,300 vehicles per day below current levels. These projects indicate that a new four lane alignment east of Bangor could cause significant bypass effects of Route 1 commercial activity in the coastal communities between Bangor and Calais.”
“The development a new 4-lane limited access highway will be subject to many considerations. The economic and social effect of bypassing communities and potential impacts on the natural and man-made environment are but a few of these considerations. The study has identified a number of potential significant resources of concern along the five conceptual corridors. These resources must be considered for total avoidance.”
My Narcissus reference fits exactly with what Vigue is doing..he is going around the State pointing to his own reputation, refuting expert studies paid for by the public and asking for Mainers to simply trust him.
Res Ipse Loquitor.
Narcissistic and egoic.
It seems that Vigue is going around the state to discuss this idea, as citizens such as you and I might require. He does have a proven record of job creation in Maine. Should he hide from that fact, and if so, why? Also, why aren’t you also considered narcissistic for thinking your fellow citizens should simply trust you and your experts?
I am just a voice like you Brandon..I don’t want anyone to trust me or look to me any more than I want anyone to simply take Vigue’s word for it. I want all of us to have the truth, the facts.
I actually believe in the common wisdom. I actually believe that if we as citizens take time to learn the facts and share them and sit down together to deliberate them that we will make wise decisions. I also believe that process of making wise decisions is aided by differing views opinions, back ground and experience.
All I am advocating for here is truth and transparency and a lot less glad handing and “trust me” from Mr. Vigue and the shadowy persistent East West Highway Association.
I believe in the common wisdom too. And I’m glad that Mainers like us are studying this issue. But I also believe this: Vigue puts himself in the line of fire for three hours, more than two hours of which he devoted to answering questions from everyday folks (glad handing, I guess you’re calling it). Unfortunately, you didn’t even go to hear the information, and then you condemn Vigue for your lack of info. Hardly seems fair.
Come on Brandon..the pitch he gave is the same claim to benefit he has been dishing out from the beginning. I’ve seen that over and over..I have several videos..all the same stuff. And all avoiding important questions about important truths .Watch the videos yourself..many are up at You Tube. Vigue in his own words doing his same pitch over and over..avoiding and misrepresnting and inconsitently replying to any questions about the project itself. He insists on trying to get by with his claims, all refuted by expert study, of benefit to Maine.
Again I ask, why should anyone believe that your experts are infallible, especially when you yourself have castigated the state government for incompetence and worse (corruption), the same state government that hired your experts?
You are going in circles no Brandon. f you are satisfied that you know all that you need to know to support this project, so be it.
How so, if it is completely built from private funding? From what I understand, it would be owned and operated like a company. Roads all over the country have been sold to private buyers, including other countries, for profit through tolls, and so taxpayers don’t have to pay for the maintenance.
How do you figure? Maine will have no control or say over the highway and most of the land is privately owned by large landowners.
how is that if Cianbro owns it?
There was a map done of the proposed route, or at least I saw one on several other stories in the Sentinel or the KJ. I guess maybe it wasn’t the official route. I agree with you for the most part. Most of the benefits will likely end up directly in Vigue’s pocket, and I don’t see how they are going to get every landowner in it’s path to just hand over their property, without eminent domain. Either way, I think it would be better to build than not, but I don’t think any of us should believe this road is just going to save the least populated part of the state.
I agree. At some point he needs to be very honest and just publish the map and let things unfold. With that being said, some have gotten too emotional too soon. Save that for when and if its needed.
Added edit: If you draw a straight line from a point between Dover and Dexter, then connect to Coburn Gore, the last 50 or so miles of highway will bisect some pretty wild area north of Bigelow. This is the area that will become more of a focus than anything. I don’t see AMC, Nature Conservancy, Sierra Club, or the MSA supporting this route. I myself am a snowmobiler, and have sledded through this area a lot. This is something that will bring once opposing organizations together. I just don’t see how Peter is going to pull this one off.
I don’t think anyone truly thinks that the only jobs and profits will be from the two toll booths at the ends of the highways. Think any of the towns and cities north of Portland would be what they are today if I-95 wasn’t there? Highways create shipping routes for buyers and sellers. Yah, there will be six exits but as these communities grow there will be more as need. Same as I-95. This is a no-brainer. The best part is that I only have to pay if I use it. No politicians taking their piece of the pie.
Of course he’s going to make a profit, thats what companies are supposed to do. if he charges too much, he won’t have any customers. If he provides a product that is deficient, no one will buy it. It’s supply and demand.
No one has any reason to call him a liar. I too am very interested in how he intends to do it without eminent domain, if he goes back on his words, then it would be appropriate to call him a liar. Until then …
The guy wants to do something that the State should have done years ago. Something that will benefit many in this state, more and more as time passes. All in a part of the state that could really use the help. He wants to do with out asking for a penny from me unless I use it. Sounds great.
If this guy was a flaming liberal, there would be far less people complaining.
Yeah actually I do think cities north of Portland would be what they are today considering Augusta is north of Portland which state capitols usually leads to businesses locating there which in turn makes people move there. Also Lewiston/Auburn would still be the same because it was not I-95 that spurred their growth it was the train and river that lead to their rise, which happened long before I-95 was even thought of. Not to mention the many towns that aren’t close to I-95 would still be what they are Oxford and Livermore area comes to mind. With or without I-95 the Central, Southern and Western parts of Maine would still be the same. As for for the Eastern and Northern that is more up for debate.
How to people get to Augusta? Lewiston/Auburn? You can’t tell me those communities wouldn’t be affected in a very prominant way if the highway was closed down. Of course they would still exist, but not as they do now thanks to the infrastructure which exists.
I am just telling you that long before I-95 even opened up those cities have virtually have unchanged now compared to them. Strictly based on population Lewiston, Auburn and Augusta have all maintained the similar populations. If they shut down people would still have routes to and from those locations RT 100, RT 202, RT 4, RT 11 etc… Does it have a positive influence, yes. Would any of those cities fall off the map if it wasn’t there, no. That’s all I am saying.
I agree, all these cities would exist to some extent. The reason all these places thrived from the beginning was economic opportunities they provided. Portland has its harbor, Lewiston/Auburn have the Androscogin River, Augusta/Waterville have the Kennebec,, Bangor has the Penobscot, Presque Isle/Caribou have the Aroostook River. When these cities were founded, these harbors/rivers were the highways that drove the economy. People didn’t got there because the water was beautiful.
If they closed the highway, the towns that run along the RT’s you listed above would begin to grown more.
Perhaps we agree more than we thought
Anyone got any idea what such a project
and product would do to Maine. Cianbro Could run a lot of trucks that
produce megatons of CO2 which everyone knows trees need to live. Of
course we would lose many oxygen producing trees, but who needs
oxygen? It would create a wonderfully wide area dividing small
critter wildlife from critter rendezvous, Vigue is on bath-salts!
And, what a nice way compliment big-wind in it’s destruction of
Nature through its policies and actions. He sure knows how to
capitalize on the wilderness of Western Maine. I guess he’s learned a
lot from big-wind criminals of which he is a member. And, I have now
a new way to express my disgust rather than using the f… word. I
can now say just: Vig You! ……….. Vigue, all you East – West
highway proponents!
Your statement is a good example of the disconnect between the tree huggers and reasonable people. Reasonable people understand that there has to be a balance between taking care of the environment and economic progress.
BangorBully 45 minutes ago in reply to MaineHiker
“Your statement is a good example of the disconnect
between the tree huggers and reasonable people. ”
(What are you, 11?) There is no
disconnect between me as a Naturalist and reasonable people There is, however,
a fatal disconnect between unreasonable people, such as yourself, and those who
are reasonable about the fate of humankind. If the greedy economic opportunists,
dealers and swindlers that assert they
are the spokespeople for such an economic balance do not fall to their knees and
accept their powerlessness and worship the power Nature that will ultimately determine
if they have a place in Life at all. (Personally I believe the egomaniacs don’t
deserve one at all, but my vote is small in Nature.)
Shove in the chest! Fisted bloody smack across your
nose. “Bring me your lunch money tomorrow.
Further proving my point. Thanks.
Try it.
And by the way, How much EXTRA fuel is spent when the trucks that are currently carrying these loads from one side of the state to the other have to drive indirect routes adding hundreds of miles, at inefficient speeds and for longer hours?
My, how cynical of you… and envious.
Vigue, and by extension, CIANBRO, have been tremendous stewards of our land, our environment, and our neighbors! They are consistently listed as one of the top employers in the country to work for, and CIANBRO is essentially owned by their employees.
It sounds like you think our state will break in two due to this new road! Pray tell, what are the catastrophies created by the presence of I-95 for so many decades now?
Vigue fairly explained why he’s NOT providing a detailed map at this time, and it makes perfect sense to me. Why does its location within a few miles one way or another, cause you such alarm?
He’s answered the eminent domain question already for crying out loud! Sure gives me more comfort over some Government scheme that’d pay a pitance for most of what they’d need. Aren’t you pleased with what Shaw’s did on property taken by eminent domain by the City of Bangor? I’m not!
{He’s answered the eminent domain question already for crying out loud}
He dodged it, saying that the” Owners” couldn’t use eminent domain.
The State will for them!
He has now lost ALL credibility!
I wonder if this road was going thru your yard if you would be spouting off the same?
My, how presumptive of you to assume that I am ‘envious’. Cianbro’s treatment of it’s employees and it’s status as an ‘essentially’ employee owned business (what ever in the world that means) have no bearing on the road discussion.
The facts remain. This will be a private toll road. It cannot be built without the State’s involvement, as it will require hundreds of permits, environmental exceptions, etc. AND it will require the use of force in some case (meaning eminent domain).
All this guy has to do is show a detailed map of how this will work. We’re all smart, thinking people who can look at facts and understand things. Claiming that we can’t be shown the whole picture because we might be manipulated by the opposition, is just Vigue saying that he doesn’t want to show us the map until he’s got the backing of the State.
Roxanne Quimby can’t put a gate across her road without making people go banana’s. You honestly believe this man can build a 4 lane highway across the State without generating opposition? Get real. Oh, and I’m thinking this project is a bit more complex then the Shaw’s thing, don’t you?
If he pays for it why shouldn’t he own it? Only the State can use ED and they are not part of this. If the State were going to build one then Ed would be an issue but it is not.
==-=-=
A ploy?
The man comes right out and says he wants to build HIS OWN highway.
It will be his and if he has the money to buy the property and build it why shouldn’t he?
The land will sell for what the people who own it believe it is worth or they won’t sell it.
Pretty simple and not much of a “ploy” if you ask me.
Are you against everything being built in Maine?
>>>>>
And if this private venture goes belly-up? Then what? A 500 foot wide sledding trail? Cross country skiing? Or legislation to use state funds to prop it up?
Unless Maine law specifically forbids it, the State CAN seize private land on behalf of a private investor. It has and still does happen all over the U.S. Interestingly, early articles on this highway proposal implied that eminent domain seizures were a certainty. Something’s fishy here…
Agreed Sir. It can. But then the not so public part comes into play, that being that the State MUST PAY the landowner the market value of said land for the approriation to be legal. Given that LePage says Maine is broke, where is Maine gonna get the cash to pay for the seizure, especially since Cianbro is depending on Maine to take the land thru eminent domain process ? LePage says NO MORE BOND’S. Fine but the basic question remain’s. Where’s the cash gonna come from since Cianbro has shown absolutely no inclination to spend any of their money on this project beyond press conference’s, press release’s and ‘feel good’ meeting’s that are more staged than the Emmy’s ? That’s what no one, especially anyone in the Maine Governor’s office or the State Treasurer’s office, wants to admit to. Gee, I wonder why ? Ask Vigue and see what you get for an answer. The results are gonna be more than shocking. And almost as laughable too .
How do you know what Vigue’s answer will be? And if you are so interested in having your questions answered by Vigue, why didn’t you ask them in Dover Foxcroft, where he spent two and a half hours answering any and all questions posed to him from the audience?
In the true dem fashion peter vigue should build it, pay for it ,Maintain it. And any profits should be put towards more entitlements.Right?
Only in the minds of Liberals if Augusta isn’t in complete control of it then it’s bad for Maine and its people. Just look at how many roads and bridges were built in the King and Baldy era. If that doesn’t give folks a clue why Augusta shouldn’t be in control of most things that the private sector can easily do then we are DOOMED. Because Liberals in Maine especially in Augusta have shown they are not capable of doing anything right.
he wont show the proposed route , because people like me who “invest ” in maine would find that once owning a piece of the route i would have a golden return on my investment. I would buy property in the way , wouldn’t you?
Your ‘Golden Return’ is gonna wind up being the ‘plunger up the yazoo’ once Cianbro decides that they ‘need’ your land. Once the route is determined, and that’s a long way from happening, and the land parcel’s identified, Cianbro is gonna start looking to try to buy these same parcel’s. But if they come across someone who say’s Hell NO! ‘ or is determined to get far more than Cianbro is willing to pay, and won’t be swayed by Cianbro’s checkbook, you can bet your kid’s future that Cianbro is gonna go to the State, all crying and blubbering about the ‘mean old goat who won’t sell’ and have Maine declare eminent domain right then and there. Then Maine get’s to do Cianbro’s dirty work and literally steal the land, paying a fraction of the land’s market value, and turning the land over to Cianbro ala the Kelo vs New London decision. And guess what ? The money that Maine has to pay for the eminent domain seizure is gonna have to be made up by Maine taxpayer’s, not Cianbro ! That means higher State and local tax’s, and if it doesn’t cover it, another round of Bond’s being put up. Gee, didn’t Paulie and Company declare ‘ NO NEW BOND’S ‘ recently ? So where is our somewhat esteemed Governor on this ? I sure don’t see or hear from the State Treasurer either, and he need’s to be in on this now. Or is he too busy running for the Senate and has decided that Maine’s issue’s are just too distracting to be bothered with ? It’s also interesting that none of the Candidates’ have made any public statement’s about this either. GOP, Democrat or Independent, they know a ‘landmine’ when they see one !
lol.. you keep believing that.. I haven’t lost money yet. I trust Cianbro a lot more than our govornor. go back a few weeks and look at the proposed route . its almost all ready there. logging and secondary roads. they will just improve them to highway status. And yes i will buy. the realestate in the areas close to the road has already started to increase in value and others are up for sale. OPPORTUNITIES!!! It takes money to make money…start spendin!
Your Governor and Cianbro are one in the same!
////
Are you guys kidding?
Vigue, like the Ciahcnette Brothers who founded COANBRO, is a life-long member of the Democrat Party… that is the Democratic Party long ago belonging to the likes of JFK.
Today’s Democrats have been subsumed by the Commies, Pinkos, Klan, Socialists and Marxists who were never tolerated by the Old Democrat Party.
Trust me on this… There’s no love lost between LePage and Vigue. Never was. Never will be.
I wish. I trust cianbro a lot more than the govornor.
What proposed route ? Vigue has that route locked up tighter than you daughter’s virtue. And he’s made no bones about that since he says ‘I’m so worried that outsider’s will try to intimidate landowner’s with false information’. What false information ? All we are doing is asking simple, basic and direct question’s to him about the very project he claims he is in charge of. And we’re asking those same question’s based on existing PUBLIC INFORMATION that he has access to just like you and the rest of us have access to as well as the information that he himself put out in the public meetings and press release’s.
It will be built…… Just a matter of time……
You hit the nail on the head!!!!!
The route already has an existing Maine-based railroad connecting Quebec to New Brunswick through Jackman, Greenville, Brownville, and Mattawamkeg. This road will take jobs away from Maine railroad employees and make more jobs for Canadian truck drivers. Thanks Cianbro! We can all get jobs at the Irving station pumping diesel fuel!
Wouldn’t Maine truckers be allowed on this road ? Will you need canadian registration plates to use it ?
Given the current position that Cianbro is taking, well, I wouldn’t hold my breath too long. Cianbro has said, for the record, that they are gonna be the one’s to determine the size, weight load and speed limits on this road since they have TOTAL CONTROL OVER IT AS STATED IN THE HIGHWAY ACT ! That means that they are gonna be the one’s to determine just who drives on it, what load’s go over it, the size’s that go over it and who pays how much for it.
What is really interesting though is the fact that Cinabro has set this whole road project up to be as straight a shot as possible between the Coburn Gap crossing and Calais without any interchanges. That means it’s gonna be a Canada to Canada highway with no possibility of any Maine interchange’s being planned for or built. It also means that, and one can see it now, that every truck coming out of Canada is going to be fueling up in Canada and running as hard as possible to get to the Calais Crossing, and the Irving pump’s on the other side, since there are no off-ramp’s to any fuel stop’s in-between. Start looking at some of these big Canadian semi’s and see just how big their fuel tank’s are. You K-W and Pete’y mech’s. How many of these rig’s that you work on have had their tank’s replaced with bigger capacity one’s to get them greater road range ? This one is straight math and even a 6th grader with a road map can figure this one out.
It also means that Cianbro is gonna be the one’s to determine vehicle registration requirement’s, not Maine. One would think that the insurance company’s are gonna have a lot to say about this and it would be a question well worth asking your current agent or carrier’s rep. The only area that Cianbro is NOT GONNA HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER is the U.S. Customs’ process. That’s Fed and no amount of LePage ‘bullying’ is gonna make that go away. Even Susie Collins, and for the moment Oly, knows that.
You obviously don’t know how much difference there is between US and Canada in fuel prices. As it is now the borders are packed every weekend morning With Canadians coming over to gas up. If anything the opposite of what you say will happen. The truckers will fill up as soon as they enter Maine and before they leave. As will all of the other Canadian traffic.
You have that right, go to Calais, more Canada plates than Maine plates…..
—-
I know a lot of good Mainers who have made a pretty good living thanks to Irving. It isn’t like any gas station that would open would be made in Maine unless you’re a bigger fan of Chavez and want to see a Citgo station doing the fuel. Or is it just Canadians you hate?
I really think these people think its the end of Maine, must think it is a road that can only be accessed from the ends……They have their blinders on..
Actually, most of the freight rail system in the USA is overloaded. Trucks and rail co-exist just fine. Often, they carry different types of cargo. You see trains with tankers and coal haulers and trucks delivering smaller loads to diverse points. I doubt you will see any loss of freight hauling due to trucks. Freight per mile is less expensive anyway. You will see more business with trucks delivering products that are more attuned to truck freight.
It is not “just a road”. Mr. Vigue himself compares it to I-95. An eighteen foot Boston Whaler and a battleship are both “boats” with, however, quite dissimilar impacts. : )
Dear Methercutt..and you point to a very critical issue here which is that we have no land use regulation in place that ever contemplated a 4 lane toll road through the wilderness. If you look at the LURC regulations section on roads..you will see it was never intended to guide or serve as a meaningful regulatory framework for a privately owned and operated 4 lane toll highway.
NYS with more foresight and prepardeness on this has a specific set of highway design standrds in place for road ways through the Adirondack Park. In my opinion we need something like that in place before we even have a proper famework for considering this porposal in a legal sense.
Well reasoned and well said Lindsay. I can only hope that more folks will follow your rational example.
Dear Preston,
We must all co-lead..we must all apply our co-intelligence on this ..beyond party allegiances and party ideologies..we must be collaborators in the strongest and most profoundly human terms to make this right.
To me this is a touchstone about when and whether the State of Maine will wake up fully to the cuases of economic loss in the northern counties and end the bananism of Miane. We have been ignoring the desparate conditions of our northern counties for decades as we facilitate the exloitation and liquidation of resources and assets..lying to the people that it is for them to help them..
To me this immoral uncoconscionable idea is the ultimate expression of that bananism and exploitation at the expense of the people of Northern Maine.
It is time to draw the line..and it is dawn with moral repugnance by Vigue’s Blue line across Maine..and his lies countering expert opinion that this will mean the revival of northern Maine. It is reprehensible in its deceipt and false promise.
To end the bananaism of Mane, to end this decades long exploitation of Maine its people and its resources by outsiders ( and a few insiders) we must have a strong regulatory and statutory framework. Without that framework, in this case a responsible framework for all insfrastucre in senstive areas and a total repeal of the ill gotten secretly enacted highway privatizion statute under which this roadway can and will go forward unless we stop it with one voice and some decent legislation.
We must each become Citizen Lobbyists.
Wow, it’s interesting how you can work yourself up into a lather after a few obsequious comments from your admirers, Lindsay. Now that you’ve talked about the “desperate conditions in Northern Maine” that we’ve “ignored for decades,” perhaps you could enlighten us on your plan for alleviating the economic suffering that is taking place there, since the highway plan is so “morally repugnant” to you.
Brandon,
Im my reply to Preston I am saying that each of us has to be awake, aware and engaged if we are going to turn northern Maine around. If we are not citzens lobbyists then corporate lobbyists will continue to work the system to their own advanatge with their profit motives taking precedence over the health and vitatlity of Maine communities.
Please answer the question. What is your plan for creating economic strength in Maine’s economically depressed areas?
Adirondack Park? Did someone use the Park word?
What a good idea, right.
But of course: “…we don’t want no stinking parks…”
Careful Lindsay. You’re sounding like you’re making a start for running for a seat in Augusta. You go girl !
Cianbro and Peter Vigue are great examples of good capitalism. To have people opposing this project because it won’t benefit them flies in the face of the very capitalism they push for everything else. This is NOT a government project using tax payer money, which would give them every right to object on the basis of no benefit to them.
The project only needs to benefit it’s owners, it’s users, pay taxes and do no harm to the residents or their property. I believe it meets those test.
Get enlightened!
Its not Capitalism, its Cronyism!
As has been asked here, just what Gov’t money isin’t going to be used ? Cianbro has no eminent domain authority. Fine then that means it’s up to Maine to use it’s authority to seize the land under eminent domain, and COMPENSATE THE LANDOWNER for it’s market value, not what Cianbro wants to pay. But what’s not been asked, and is now beginning to be, is just where Maine is gonna get the money from to pay these landowner’s from. LePage, to his credit, has said on more than one occasion that he’s gonna trash any more Bond’s until he gets a State Budget he’s ‘happy with’. Fine. Then show me where in the State Budget Maine has the cash to pay for these land appropriation’s that Cianbro so loudly calls for as ‘Being needed in the public’s best interest’, as is required under the Supreme Court decision’s, specifically the Kelo vs New London case.
More importantly, right about now, is the need for the Maine Public Interest Group to start looking at land deed Transfer’s of Title to these land parcels and see just who owns them, or is in process of transfering them, to new ownership. Corporate ‘milking’ is, I suspect, beginning even now. Someone needs to go tie ole’ Bessie up in the barn and keep her there until all the local ‘wolf’s’ are either gone or strung up for all to see.
Why should anyone believe what you have to say, Mr. Kiernan? What is your claim to credibility? It seems to me that most of your comments consist of speculation and very few facts, and the “facts” you do put forward are often mistaken, such as your belief that the highway will use 2000 feet of right of way across the state.
Who do you think owns the present roads which are going to be turned over to them? LePage and his gangsters have no right to give away State land
I haven’t seen so much duck and weave since Clinton got asked about his definition of sex by the press when he was getting ‘hummer’s’ from Monica ! Vigue is using scare and pity tactic’s to try to convince the local town’s that this road needs to be built. He’s also making it VERY CLEAR that he does not want any type of ballot referendum on this. Gee, I wonder why ? Maybe because he knows that he’s one dead duck the minute that this is added to the State-wide Ballot come November. He goes out of is way to tell everyone that Cianbro is not going to use eminent domain but doesn’t tell anyone just HOW Cianbro is going to get the land they want, note ‘WANT’, not need, for the Highway. It’s also very interesting that nowhere in any of this has any Maine DOT Official been seen. I for one applaud their using their common sense in this whole mess since even they see this for what it is, namely Maine’s version of The Alamo.
I also find it more than a bit interesting that Vigue, while telling us all what we already know about unemployment figure’s, makes no mention of just what specific benefit’s this Highway will bring beyond vague and general statement’s about ‘improving local business opportunity’s. Please, how many shades of gray are their ? All of us have seen, and know, that road building does indeed bring jobs to a local area. And just as quickly, once the road is done, these jobs disappear. So much for Vigue’s statement about employment being created. Instant now and then instant gone is not what the State needs and Vigue dammed well knows it. Does, and can, Eastport be a major East Coast cargo terminal ? No doubt it can be and I am all for it. But it needs to be done for the benefit of the Mainer’s who are here, both now and those in the future, namely our kid’s and grandkid’s. What Vigue proposes at these ‘public meeting’s’, and elsewhere, in trying to sell the Act is nothing less than building a highway thru Maine for the sole benefit of the Canadian economy and keeping Maine on the road shoulder’s like some 3rd World beggar looking for crumb’s to eat to stay alive. In short term’s, he want’s a ‘piece’ without paying for it. This Act that he so loudly praise’s is barely one short step from being the equivalent of a public ‘Date Rape’. Only this time the victim is both seeing and gonna remember it all. And November is coming ! Tick tock, tick tock ……………
The only big government “rape” I’m aware of is Baldacci’s Rape Of Juniper Ridge being filled with out of state trash by a non-Maine corporation.
No, I’ll take CIANBRO’s version, thank you.
In Dover Foxcroft, Vigue talked about the value that Eastport could have as container cargo evolves, and more and more shipments arrive on the east coast due to congestion in west coast ports. The missing link is the direct highway route from the Eastport area to markets in the midwest. He said beefing up the connectivity between Maine and the midwest could create great opportunities for places like Eastport. That doesn’t sound like “building a highway thru Maine for the sole benefit of the Canadian economy…” But perhaps you were talking when he said that, which is why you missed it. More likely, you weren’t even at the presentation, given your lack of understanding of the most basic parts of the plan.
Keep the pressure on Cianbro. This is SELF SERVING and we don’t need an east west highway land giveway for some un unionized greedy, hate spreading company to continue to flourish at the Maine people’s expense.
fatboy, who said anything about a land giveaway? Also, I question your statement about Cianbro being a hate spreading company. Your statement sounds like sour grapes from a union man who feels that companies should not make any profit, but rather, they should just take all the risk, invest in their enterprises, and pay their employees three times what they are worth in earning capacity. The American way as in the UAW and Teamsters.
I don’t like the idea of a contractor that stands to make millions off of this thing, preaching accross the State the value of ” his ” east/west highway. Where are our representitives in all of this? Why should we be satisfied listening to the wolf preaching about the value of chickens? We need our reps invloved in this proposal to stand up and speak their mind and explain why this will really help our State. I refuse to accept anything that Vigue says as a “plus” for us when in all reality his company will make millions and end up owning some of the best wilderness in the State. Where are our leaders?
I personally would love to see the Feds put in high speed rail across America, but the wingnuts of America freak out about this idea. It’s just a railroad? Anyway, would be nice if America could be competitive with Iran and Iraq who are both considering adding high speed rail in their country….
This will cut the state in HALF!!! Just like hwy 95 did! People No. of Bangor haven’t seen their relatives in yrs!!! It will be just like Augusta/Waterville people who are totally restricted to the East side of the state!!!! Oh the humanity!!
That would make it a Quarterly investment…
One need only look at Henry Joy’s plan for dividing Maine into Northern and Southern Maine to see that it’s being used now, but not for political reason’s.
Have to get a passport just to cross….LOL…
Vacuous vampire Vigue’s very vague vision vexes vehemently vociferous Vacationlanders !!
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Toll at $25? Sure. You know what the gas and time costs to truck over the top of the state and back down again? Far more than $25.
You are making too much sense, but you are wasting your time trying to explain it….
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Normally, I would read this but I am pressed for time this a.m. I need the Executive Summary.
In a nutshell, the alternative is to drive over the top of the State and back down, or weaving your way through the State, both of which take time and fuel to complete. But, it is your option. What is your time and fuel worth to you?
For some, who want to look at flora and fauna, a leisurely drive, meandering in and out of small towns, or driving over the top of the State and spending all those extra hours and fuel is worth it. On the other hand, if you want to fly the Concorde, you pay the price. But, it is your choice to book passage on this private enterprise or not.
It should not be too difficult to determine the cost delta between the two trips. That’s the only fair comparison. Then, you can make the decision as to whether it is worth it or not.
The corridor would be 500 feet, according to Vigue’s comments in DF. 500 feet does not equal 2/3 of a mile.
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I hope the people who turned out to protest the concept of an east-west highway as being damaging to Maine’s environment, being built for the gain of others, and not creating much economic development for Maine will wake up and apply the same thinking to the onslaught of sprawling industrial wind power projects in rural Maine. The highway is a concept. Wind power development destruction is real, happening right now.
If a build-out of the state’s goal of 2700 MW of installed capacity (more like only 675 MW at a miserable 25% capacity factor) is achieved by 2020, that translates into more than 300 miles of Maine’s mountain ridges blasted away, leveled, and scalped, compared to 220 miles of east-west highway. It translates into more than 50,000 acres of carbon-sequestering forest permanently clear-cut compared to 14,000 acres for the east-west highway. Due to the heavy reliance on subsidies, about 60% of wind development comes from taxpayers, the east-west highway is a private venture. Placing thousands of wind turbines as tall as 45 story Boston skyscrapers on our mountains will destroy Maine’s inland tourism, while an east-west highway could help Maine tap into the Canadian tourist base better.
My point is not whether or not I support the highway, but the folks who are against it need to fight just as hard against a greater threat to Maine’s “Quality of Place” and fight the corporate thieves at First Wind even more vigorously than Cianbro, as they are destroying Maine right now!
No East West Hwy. in Maine. We can Not afford it!!!!!!
Won’t cost you a cent!
Here’s another problem. To privately fund $2,000,000,000 over 30 years at 5% requires a monthly payment of $10, 736,430. This is $357,881 per day. If 5,000 trucks use the road every day, the toll would be $72 just to cover the debt service. Nothing yet for maintenance, plowing, and profit for Cianbro. The profit goes to Cianbro and we get the pollution from 5,000 trucks. Thanks Cianbro!
You can’t have it both ways. Either he can make a profit or he can’t.
Which is it?
If the project is built, and fails financially, what happens? There is nothing to liquidate except property, and that wont pay off $2,000,000,000 to the bond holders. You watch, the State of Maine will be asked to guarantee the bonds, and we’ll get stuck if it fails.
Well then, let’s just not try anything because anything might fail!
We’ll just sit here in the woods and do nothing.
Does that make your Sierra Club membership just tingle or what?
Are you willing, as a Maine taxpayer, to assume this $2,000,000,000 debt if the project fails? This is a simple “yes” or “no” question.
Believe me, some investor will buy it just like they did with the 407 ETR toll road in Toronto. I drive that all that time. Yes, it is about $20 end-to-end but it is that or 3 hours of traffic on the 401 on a Friday afternoon. My time and gas are worth the $20.
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I suspect the $150 is for a tractor-trailer unit. But, compared to the hours it takes plus the gas to drive over the top of the State and then back down again, the toll, combined with the convenience, wins me over.
You are correct.
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Considering that it is a hypothetical question based no comment or anything implied by anyone I would have to say that it isn’t even a question right now.
Why don’t we wait until that is even a remote possibility of something that may happen someday?
I’ll take that as a “no.”
I do not believe eminent domain is a tool available to a private citizen or company. It is a tool available to government. Also everyone should know that IF eminent domain is used, there are many steps in the process. Public hearings are conducted, an analysis of alternatives must be prepared and presented, a fair market value analysis of the property in question is conducted. If after all is said and done, the ED option is deemed the last resort/only option available, then the property owner(s) are given the fair market value of the property.
The government does not bust its way into your home, give you 10 minutes to pack your stuff, and kick you in the backside while you are escorted off your property.
For those that are demanding that Vigue publish a map of the route are asking him to turn water into wine. He does not have anything concrete, nor could he possibly have anything meaningful prepared without expending a significant amount of resources to do so. Whatever the line may look like today will certainly not be what it would looks like if the project manages to be completed.
To observe, listen and/or read people discuss a PROPOSED project is a case study in ignorance. It is amazing how people hear about someone’s idea and automatically assume that the bulldozers are just around the corner. Projects of this size do not just happen overnight. The hurdles that an entity must overcome to get something like this off the ground – irregardless of how burdensome the regulatory process is – is often enough to squash 99% of all ideas like this that are proposed.
It is understandable that people have a concern about soemthing big proposed for their area. But spouting off uninformed opinions, being difficult for the sake of being difficult, and jumping to conclusions without knowing the basic facts serves no purpose at all. This expending of negative energy does nothing for the best interests of your neighbors, your community, or your state.
Keep in mind that the vitriol and negative attitudes that are put on display when someone proposes something may likely keep someone with a truly great idea from coming forth, for fear of being ridiculed or eschewed from their community. Not to mention that this is the impression that is given to those from outside looking at this State.
The Supreme Court in 2005 said it was ok for the state to take land thru Eminant Domain and give it to a private contractor if the land was necessary for economic improvement.
The case came from the State of Connecticut taking land for a supermarket, I believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London
Kelo vs City of New London. And it was decided on by a severely right-wing Supreme Court. Given that the Court is in the process of changing, the Montana Supreme Court ‘s direct challenge of the Supreme Court’s infamous ‘Citizens United’ case being the ‘biggie’, you can pretty well see where this type of legal action is gonna be heading.So do these same business’s !
Eminent domain is being seen more and more as the Gov’t’s caving in to Big Business when they don’t get their way and cry ‘But we’re doing in the public’s best interest’ while at the same time politely threatening to move out of state and take their business tax’s with them. In plain old legal terms it’s called extortion and it’s usually sentenced with a 5 to 12 stretch at Warren or Downeast. November is coming folk’s and the closer it get’s the more desperate these Big Business’s are gonna get in their fear and scare tactic’s being used. Fear and scare tactic’s are the one true measure of just how afraid these Big Business/Government partnership’s are of the public finding out just who is driving the bus. And the more that Vigue opens his mouth and try’s his ‘Chickn Little’ tactic’s, the more the public’s gonna see’s just who’s gonna be the one’s to benefit and who’s gonna be on the ‘wrong end of the train’ as it were. The more they threaten and try to scare, the more desperate and afraid they are of being found out and being seen for just what and who they really are.
I agree but unless the Supreme Court’s make up is changed they will rule in favor of any business interest over the interest’s of the People.
Any number of recent Supreme Court Justice’s public comment’s indicate that the CU decision is fast approaching large, if not complete, reversal. Taking that as an indicator, should ‘The Court’ swing back to the middle, if not come somewhat Left, it’s not inconceivable that the Kelo decision could be re-visited and either amended or reversed. But to declare the eminent domain provision illegal is beyond even ‘The Court’s ability since it’s written into the original 4th Amendment. That takes a Constitutional change and, frankly, I just don’t see it happening any time soon. But that’s the great strength of The Constitution. It can have it’s Article’s amended, added to or repealed. But it takes all of us to do it.
There are many cases across the country in which government seized land on behalf of a private entity. It’s not that uncommon, actually. Only if Maine law expressly forbade it would it not be permissible.
If you’re an unwilling seller and you are forced to sell by the state, it’s a seizure, whether you’re compensated or not. You can’t paint a smiley face on that.
Celer Silens Mortalis
I just drove to Lincoln to do the family graves..let’s see how long has I95 been in ..and at Howland where the exit serves the road that goes east to the maritimes..I saw nothing..no burgeoning local economies. I saw lots of small family owned road side stands that used to capture business from through traffic now boarded up. I saw lots of Irving Stations. One at every exit one or two empluyees per station.
Lincoln is doing well and has benefited from I-95 not because I-95 exists but beause but because it was an inherent growth center with a diversified economic base and the road facilitated that natural growth center..that’s how roads and infrasturce work,.they don’t bring growth and business if the ineherent core of strength isn’t already there. Vigue knows that
I attended the meeting last night. I’m sorry, but that man talks with a forked-tongue. His responses were often times a condescending lecture. Many people noticed his choice of words, such as how many times he responded using the word “intent” – “that’s not the intent,” “that’s not what is intended,” – of course we all know the road to hell was paved with good “intentions” and that intentions often change once you get the camel’s nose into the tent.
Ah, but that’s EXACTLY how the Statists keep developmental “hope and change” from becoming reality.
Drag the process out so long the applicant dies of old age.
Its a road to you, To Me its my Home!
“Cianbro Chairman and CEO Peter Vigue talks to the crowd in Foxcroft Academy’s gymnasium…”
No, the chairman talked AT and DOWN to the crowd… The people in the gymnasium WERE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK.
Questions could be submitted on slips of paper. THE PEOPLE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK while CEO Vigue and state senator Thompson could say whatever, at whatever length, they chose.
THE PEOPLE’S VOICE WAS SILENCED BY THIS CROWD CONTROL FORMAT. Very poor form…
Backed up by a VERY LARGE POLICE PRESENCE of Dover-Foxcroft, Milo, County, and State police officers… VERY POOR FORM…
From everything Vigue said last night this is the 1%’s east/west
highway… The “trickle down” effect “might” create some jobs… same
old promise that has facilitated the greatest redistribution of wealth
upward to the wealthy in history…
Why do you think that the Republicans are giving away the Tax Revenue to the Rich?
Thats more money for them to buy up roads, schools, prisons, railways, ports, ect, ect, ect, and less Public Money to fund them!
The first thing a fascist regime does in taking over a country is to divy up the assets to cronies!
Leftists are, at their core, against all progress. Strange they call themselves progressives.
Your comment makes absolutely no sense.
It’s. A. Road. People.
Who cares where the money goes. Who cares if there are toll booths. I am fairly certain that each and every one of you use a road in your daily life. East, west, north, south, who cares…roads help people get to where they need to be.
I realize that a majority of people in this state would love it if we shut down everything inside our borders and waited for all the humans to die just so all the fluffy animals can live on………..
But I’m of sound mind and body, so I vote road.
This is far from just a road. This is a barrier threw the state. How many folks live in northern Maine for the wildlife and scenery? The only jobs that will be created, will come from the mass exodus out of the state of Maine.
So we should avoid economic and infrastructure development because it messes up the view?
This state will flounder like the Titanic if we don’t continue to improve…
Then again, I’m sure most of the people on here commenting would rather Maine look like Millinocket then Bangor or Portland.
Bangor??? you think Bangor got something going for it, hahahaha….
For one thing, Bangor has a heck of a lot more jobs in it than Millinocket does, unfortunately.
this is not just a road, nice try
You are too right. It’s a space ship that will steal the hearts and souls of Maine’s children…
Listen to you people. It’s a damn road.
Ahh!!! anyone opposing it rides in a space ship now.. Nice try.
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Go on…
Vigue said the corridor would be 500 feet across the state, roughly equivalent to I-95. The confusion arises from the fact that the Stud Mill Road would become part of the highway east of the Penobscot River, and that road has a 2000 foot right of way currently.
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Whether you are FOR or AGAINST this superhighway, get informed; because once this is done, it is done! – If they are not taking land by eminent domain, than how are they getting 220-miles of our property?
Sure, some people will be happy to sell, BUT many are not!!! The properties they are talking about in our area are farmland & forest….
– How is this going to help with tourism when it is being created for trucking and only have 6 exits? Mr. Vigue pointed out the I-95 was good for communities, but I-95 is not a trucking route and has exits in almost every community. This will not!
– “The 220-mile toll highway would start in Calais and end in Coburn Gore. He said again that the highway would not go through any communities and it would travel south of Dover-Foxcroft and north of Dexter.” Do you live in that area and want to give up your way of life?
For the greater good? Who is benefiting? Canadians?
– Not affect our value of our property abutting the highway? Do you want a highway beside your house/farm? Would you buy a property abutting this highway?
– How is this going to affect the Maine deer, moose, fish, etc. when they are cutting a huge swath of land? (Aren’t biologists are worried about this when vernal pools, salamanders, etc. are so highly protected?) Many of us already own land in “protection” and can’t use it but still pay taxes on it.
– So many more questions to ask and be answered!
I am all for Economic Development, but I still have not heard how it is going to create that for us, the landowners. Am I missing something? Give me a reason to support this and I would reconsider, but right now, NO Superhighway for me!
Vigue said it is not their intent to use eminent domain to take land… The road to H*ll is paved with good intentions…
A private corporation with enough resources will resort to murder if it serves their bottom line… history is full of this happening… it is happening today by Coca-Cola’s involvement with union activists, Chevron in the Amazon, Dick Cheney’s secret Energy Task Force that helped plan the Iraq War objectives…
They will do whatever it takes to profit… that’s the “American Way” in our corporatocracy…
Vigue also said that “not my intent” means “NO.”
If the financial crisis has done anything it has created in plain view a breach of trust that un-policed private interests will always, in all cases, do the right thing…
Besides, Peter Vigue’s company doesn’t have the authority to take by eminent domain… the government exercises that authority… and which side do you think this so-called “pro-business” LePage admin would come down on if push came to shove? In business, “no” doesn’t always mean no… THAT is the breach of trust the greed and hubris of today’s American corporatocracy has created… I wish it weren’t so…
I attended the meeting last night. That man speaks with forked tongue.
I found his responses often times condescending, and he skirted around many issues. I submitted a question which was not a “yes or no” question, and his answer to it was a short, curt “No.” It made absolutely no sense. Many folks noticed his choice of words – intention…..”that’s not my intention,” “that is not what’s intended,” etc. As we all know, the road to hell was paved with good intentions – and intentions often change. The use of the word allows much wiggle room. Many of us know that once the camel gets his nose into the tent, the rest of the camel will follow. Mainers BEWARE!
Peter knows politics, divide and conquer… First make the opposition look like loonies divide the communities.
Second pretend that they scare you and you need protection..
Isolate packs in each community mostly business people and city/town leaders because they can help him get what he wants.
Go to your town leaders and business owners and protest them folks….
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Thats why he needs to get town and city leaders on his side, to take the land for them. It is cheaper to buy off city leaders then to buy land from hundreds of people..
The question shouldn’t be, are you going to use eminent domain to take people properties. The question should be how do you intend to aquire land if the land owner doesn’t want to sell?
Or is Mr. Vigue implying that they already have agreements with all the landowners whose land the road will cross?
only the large ones
“…outside groups may intimidate landowners…” What the heck does that mean?
Groups from New Hampshire, or Russia, or Mars?
Get a life–there are national organizations that have their main office in places like–gulp–California. But they have members and chapters here. What the heck is wrong with an outside group? If they know something of relevance, I want to know it. If they have had similar experiences, teach me something, and I can decide for myself.
The reality of what will happen here is much closer to: “Insider groups may intimidate landowners…”
Being scammed by a Maine native, you are still scammed.
A different bunch of stakeholders for Cianbro CEO, not the customary board of directors, stockholders or VP level. I would imagine that he does the interupting when conducting his meeting. The shoe is on the other foot this time.
What exactly do you people want for northern Maine? Remember the prison they were going to build in Milo? Everyone was crying about that too. I live in Guilford (and have for 34 years). I rode up around DF/Milo/Brownville the other day and all I saw was realtor signs. Enjoy your dead towns and high taxes. It’s a just a road.
I agree it is a shame. I was born and raised in D-F and when I look from afar now, it is a terrible basket case of social welfare, unemployment and drugs. Wait … let’s have a big drum circle at Merrick Square! That will fix everything.
Google: “Kelo v. New London”
City takes land for benefit of private developer, so it can get more taxes. This was upheld, all the way to US Supreme Court. Kicker is development never built, Mrs. Kelo was still evicted, house demolished. Precedent is now law of the land.
Governments and privates, hand in glove, hand in (your) pocket.
Maine has more troubles than this road… one of the most socialist states in the country.. at one time it was one of the leaders in the paper industry and employed thousands of folks..the state gov’t has never been industry friendly.. they need the money to support everyone and the revenue bunch are not at all tuned in to business’.. that said , Vigue has the right idea… build the road.. it is likely the first step in many years that will actually help business’ along the corridor of the highway… and those support business’ along the way that exist now will flourish.. come on maine get it right just once
Socialist…? You don’t know what you are talking about.
Sadly, this sounds like a courtesy meeting, a waste of Vigue’s time in his eyes. The highway is a done deal & the landowners will have no choice. I can see pros & cons but my sympathy is with the landowners .
Does Maine need an East-West Highway? Yes. Does it need Mr. Vigue’s private highway – not likely. The State is already subsidizing Vigue’s proposal. Eminent Domain is not far behind.
What we need is public 4 lane divided highways from Portland to Bethel and from Bethel to Calais. Everything good about Mr. Vigue’s proposal is also good with these highways. But state and community lands and rights should not be surrendered for private profit.
Bottom line is, this is all about Cianbro making money for Cianbro, it has nothing to do with any of us!!
how is an east west highway going to further the entitlement society the dems built in Maine. Jobs we want no stinking jobs.We want rich people to molest not jobs.
Peter I am a town selectman along the route for this highway, I have 2 kids needing a scholorship to go to college, do you know of anyone that can help?
I’m not a selectmen or council member but I’m pretty this is how it will turn out.
I have to admit, you had me going for a moment. I was shocked that anyone would elect such a “can’t do” leader.
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With this highway you will now have the state cut in 4 quarters…… Have to get 4 different license plates made up for God’s sake…..LOL
The claimed “hostility” contains the worry and frustrations of so many. Equally disturbing are weak attempts to shrug this off as a “private venture.” Coming from the Tea Party’s Le Page, only doubles the anxiety and concern for our state.
This giant freeway, or, Autobahn, is strictly a direct route between Quebec and New Brunswick. The sole beneficiaries will be the Canadians.
The creation of this highway will afford Canadians the benefit of two major arteries cutting across our state between New Brunswick and Quebec. Their railroad cuts through the center portion of the state. No one can board their trains in Maine. Their freeway will allow Mainers one opportunity to get on it – at Calais. If wrong, then show us the map.
Why fear publishing a map showing the intended route? For something of this magnitude Maine people should at least have an opportunity to take a peek prior to this Post- mortem on Maine’s midriff.
Mainers have reason to worry. What’s to prevent this governor with his bully tea party vetoes, from seizing land, or, even townships? His cohort, tea party trail blazer Gov. Rick Snyder, took total control of Benton Harbor, Michigan, on a trumped up charge of failing to meet state economic standards. The tea party – controlled legislature gave Snyder unlimited power over local governments. Land seized will become an exclusive country club. What’s to prevent Le Page and his tea party minions from enacting a law to enable Le Page to seize townships under the same pretense?
In case anyone wonders private toll roads have been built in several parts of the US and they have been very profitable for the states. All the workers and work done on the road is paid for by the owners and the state police patrol of the roads are paid for by the roads. http://dullesgreenway.com/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/04/AR2009070402595.html
Hostile Crowd ! What do you expect when you want to steal Mainers Homes, Farms and Land to build a highway for the Canadian Trucking Industry. This highway wont benefit Mainers at all. Pay a toll? Mainers will still take the local roads to avoid paying any toll.
if they down’t cut the roads off with their highway
Only the tight wads will spend more money going the long way just to spend more mone in gas, but they dont have common sense,,,So let them….Most will pay to save time and gas…….
It’s not only the gas, but the cost per mile of vehicle operation and wear. Plus, highways are safer than backroads per mile. Admittedly, I have friends that will drive around the moon to avoid paying a toll. They know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, as the old saying goes.
So true, wish these folk were as smart and had the common sense that we do…
Well, a friend of mine and I have often said we thought the world would be far better off if people thought as we did. What we usually hear is emotional responses (based on what, who knows?) rather than looking at a situation, evaluating the facts, and making a decision.
Right now, I am not convinced I see any more adverse impact from the highway than I would see from most highways. We just had the “inter-county connector,” the ICC opened near my house. People went on and on about this for 30 years, I swear. Well, the damn thing finally was built. Impact? I haven’t seen any and I’m a mile from it. It’s an EZPass-only toll road and I drove on it the first week when it was free just to see where it went. It’s okay. It doesn’t go anywhere I usually go so I probably won’t use it, but it’s a non-factor to me. People going from Montgomery County, Maryland to Baltimore would use it to bypass the I-270/I-495 “split” which is a bear for traffic.
One interesting thing – my GPS lost its mind and showed me in the middle of field and kept telling me to “find a road.” I got a chuckle out of that. I have to get an update from GM.
The complaints I hear about this being a highway for Canadians and all that? So what? It’s getting tolls and taxes. Who cares? A rising tide lifts all ships – business for them is business for us.
To me, this is all a lot of hullabaloo over not much.
“A rising tide lifts all ships – business for them is business for us.”
That was true from 1945 until 1979 but no longer. The measures of the rise in income and wealth distribution tracked side by side during that growth period. Since 1979 there has been a divergence and the rising tide for the very wealthy has lifted their boats while the short tether on the moorings of most all other boats has put them underwater… salaries and wages have not risen commensurate to profits and the incomes of the upper income scale. Incomes and wages have actually fallen for a vast number of workers when adjusted for inflation, remained flat or barely increased for many others.
When Peter Vigue opens his presentation showing slides of mega-container ships carrying hundreds of containers of cheap goods as “opportunity,” he is talking about a continuation of an economy based on unsustainable consumerism, foreign manufacturing (and domestic job loss), and by extension the debt consumers require to fuel their buying (not having income sufficient to avoid this debt in order to consume).
So, no, business for them does not mean business for the rest of us… wish it were so, but it ain’t no more…
I guess that was a poor analogy. When I meant “tide” I meant the tide for all people, rich, middle class, and the poor, since tide affects all ships.
I agree the wealth distribution has degraded. People talk about a loss of taxes from the middle class, well, yeah, sure, they aren’t working! If they had jobs, they’d be contributing to the tax base.
I was a big Trickle-Down believer and in theory it should have worked. However, rather than re-invest those tax savings in new plants, training, and expansion, the factories were allowed to age, then sent overseas, and the funds put into questionable Wall Street investments which, of course, are far more liquid than a brick-and-mortar factory. The middle class was hung out to dry and with the collapse of Wall Street, we are where we are.
With regard to the highway, I still am in favor of it. Unsustainable consumerism? Yes, probably, but that’s the economy we have now. Until such time that the playing field can be better leveled, I think we are stuck with it. We have dumbed-down in this country in education, technical advances, and infrastructure. We are doing to the country what was done to the shoe manufacturing business in Maine – letting it die away. We don’t need to, and I say we should not, but that is what is happening. The Tea Party mindset is to hide in the corner until the debt is paid down. By that time, and now because of that approach, there is no business going on, more unemployment and even less tax revenue coming in, we might as well put a “For Sale” sign on the USA and sell it to China – that is if they want a 3rd world rust bucket like us, full of backward thinking rednecks, whose only solution is to pray for a solution.
What is to prevent them from selling the highway to Canada after it is done?
Utah sold 75 square miles of land to China which will be under Chinese control.
The way the law is written Canada would have total control of the highway.
Many projects are built by local companies only to be sold after they are complete.
I don’t think Mainers know exactly what Peters up to.
Be careful what you wish for folks.
We need a citizens petition to stop this
Actually, this happened in Canada with the 407 ETR. It was bought be an American firm, I heard. A whole bunch of feathers got ruffled for no apparent reason. You know what? The road is still there – the Americans didn’t take it home with them – and it is open, operational, and I think has improved over the years. They need to get on the EZPass transponder rather than their own, but otherwise, they do fine.
For those of you saying that Eminant Domain can’t be used to take land for this road you are mistaken.
The Supreme Court in 2005 said it was ok for the state to take land thru Eminant Domain and give it to a private contractor if the land was necessary for economic improvement.
The case came from the State of Connecticut taking land for a supermarket, I believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K…
Peter Vigue is bringing jobs and prosperity to Maine, and Yet people are complaining about not jobs? !? Those people elect the current leaders in Maine that keep this stagnate economy in Maine going. NO VISION! Keep up the good work Peter and don’t be discourage about some of the Citizens of Maine that can’t see a brighter future for themselves or their children. Some here at the Passamaquoddy Tribe envisioned the East West Highway 10 of years ago and the Tribe did not move on this, Now Other People are seeing the value in this Highway. It will connect us the world economy; just as our neighbor to the North as done, we need to follow or we will be left in the stone ages. WAKE UP Maine! geesh.
what crap..
Hit the nail on the head…..
I think rail is a better option it would be great if we get a high-speed rail network in Maine for both passenger and freight. It would be much more efficient then trucks
Wake Up! Rail is dead in Maine, been dead for over 30 years now. The state of Maine owns most of the rail beds now, which have become ATV Trails without the tracks. Rail in Maine is finished.
No, not really. It’s coming back. The Downeaster has increased its round-trip runs to 5 per day from North Station to Portland. The run from Portland to Brunswick is almost done, and there are plans run Amtrak to Rockland. I’m all for it.
What is needed is investment to get the rails up to snuff so they can travel faster than 10 mph. Pan Am is going to do it. They are running freight and they don’t care. LePage won’t invest a dime.
Personally, I’d like to see the new inter-urban trains run on the old MCR lines now owned by Pan Am. Of course, Pan Am would have to rent out the lines – very unlikely. But, high speed rail (70+ mph) is possible and would be great.
Take a look at these: http://www.usrailcar.com/
Passenger and light freight – fast, clean, and far less expensive to run. Very comfortable. I’d ride on this any day. If I could get on a train in Burnham and beeline it to Boston, I’d be a happy camper.
High speed rail right between the east and west bound lanes, everyone wins, add a natural gas line too, everyone wins…..
Tolls for Trolls! It’s clear here who the bully is and it’s not the protesters. It’s probably best that he keep any intended route secret; secret forever. Protecting the Western mountains and scenic areas of Maine already has structure and Maine produces a lot of pine pitch and chicken feathers. What’s already in your wallet, Vigue?
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TOLLS for TROLLS! It’s clear here who the bully is and it’s not the protesters. It’s probably best that he keep any intended route secret; secret forever. Protecting the Western mountains and scenic areas of Maine already has structure and Maine produces a lot of pine pitch and chicken feathers. What’s in your wallet, Vigue?
go back i believe 3 weeks on the bdn.. the proposed map of the highway is there,, help yourself to the pine pitch,
No, of course you don’t sound like a bully whatsoever. No wonder Vigue travels with a bodyguard who would probably kick your buns if you showed up with your pine pitch and feathers.
Mainers, reading these posts it is clear how much shortsighted resistance there is relative to the future of Maine. “Progressives” sure talk the talk but when it comes time to walk the walk they bolt for their decades old comfort zone of Daddy and Mommy Government and the unnecessity of having to think for themselves because the “herd” will take care of them.
There is an alternative. This east-west highway proposal can change more than just the direction of traffic in that a new road to private citizen opportunity symbolically re-appears after decades of dependency and reliance on the Great and All Powerful Authority of Government. It’s high time we reclaim our bequeathed rights to self-determination through our own applied effort rather than wait for…….*someone else*…….. to take care of us.
Maine has a new frontier but this time, it is inside each of us rather than a geographic locale. Do we choose to fear our own abilities? Is it indeed each of ….*Us*….who is consumed with envy, jealousy and greed? Are we afraid of non-conformity? Bold new ideas will lead us to Maine’s future but these ideas will come from the same well-spring that propelled our Founders to craft our documents of individual freedom and personal responsibility. I believe Mainers know this instinctively and many see this east-west highway as emblematic of potential socio-economic health……..American style.
I agree, but the alterative is without the traditonal checks and balances and that becomes risky for the people. Its not a fantasy, there are wolves out side the herd. I’m not pointing fingers on this issue, but proceding with caution here is wise.
The traditional “checks and balances” is the very same concept of self-governance that grew the country. Adequate self-governance minimizes the need for laws as it raises an individual’s self-expectations of his or her chosen morality. Inadequate self-governance belongs in the judicial system.
oh please
I see we have parted ways, DvG… for the very first time… but I make no apologies for my opinion, representative of plenty of other Mainers’ who don’t post in these comment sections.
As far as I’m concerned, you get an “attaboy” from me, Voice.
This sounds like a road for the capitolists to march down and take over America. The’re getting the state to handle the dirty work of eminent domain. If this is such a good deal,the state should find a way to get the money, and put it out to bid. I’m not anticapitolist, but I don’t want the goverment working for them. Better for the state to reap any profits on this one.
Something is very wrong in Maine. Thousands of Engineering Corporations through out the United States, many many more efficient and productive than Cianbro. However you only see Cianbro push this Canadian disaster upon Mainers.
They need a Maine voice t6o do it then to turn it over
Could you source your evidence as to which big evil corporations have said they’re interested or currently involved in this project? Saying all of them doesn’t count now :)
That is because those corporations don’t care about Maine or the people who live here.
This is just the Anti-Plum Creek crowd with a new ax to grind!
nope not at all.
yes of course it is
You are correct, thank you for your service to our country BTW….. I work with 2 former ea6 Marines…..
Thank you too and tell the Prowlers that a red eyed playboy says hi.
I will, the growler is the new toy. They bless us with their presense once in a while, … My co-worker has his playboy patch in his cube…
Mine is my office on the corkboard as well. I first deployment with them was back in 85 so it’s a bit dated as is my old flight suit name patch but I still show the colors with pride.
I love this board, just had a few great laugh’s , You cant get there from “hearuh” has rung in my head for years, now we have a opportunity to connect ONE OF OUR PORTS!! to a major shipper and in doing so will attract more “shippers ” for us. the underlying thing people seem to miss is that freight comes in from the west right now. very little comes goes out from Maine as we cant ship out cheaply. ask any trucker. finding freight to head west is hard , but Seattle back is a piece of cake. Now if there is a suitable exit for OUR products as well as Canadian products, doesn’t the logic go where there is commerce there is growth? Now the last time I looked most of the “new road ” already existed in some fashion, from existing logging to secondary roads. we are not PLOWING a brand new swath from one side to the other as most would have you believe. Environmental impact studies would bankrupt the company. An existing road is much easier to upgrade and in most cases will lessen the impact by improving the landscaping and returning the water flow to normal. Right now those roads are just dirt dams with little thought for drainage. The State gave them money for a study ,yes, but they get paid back in full if the project goes through. would most of you be making a stink if it connected to New Hampshire? Problem is whats there to connect in New Hampshire?? This project actually makes sense, opens opportunities up that we didn’t have before and doesn’t suck up tax dollars, so if you don’t use it , you don’t pay for it. I also agree with not publishing the planned route.. they have to purchase some property to make this work and if they publish the route, well if I knew where it was going i would do everything possible to buy a chunk in the way, as the return on my investment would most likely be double or more in value..doesn’t mean I’m not looking :-)
just spent 20 minutes on a comment, and BDN stuffed it, no profanity, no names, just reasons I like this project . good thing I copied it before I lost it. mediator asleep at the wheel.
“They can use their authority by law and declare the emergency economic need for the Maine Economy to have it built.”
This is what tea party Gov. Rick Snyder did in Michigan. He took control of Benton Harbor and plans to convert it into a country club golf course. A protest petition is drawn up and people are angry.
Governors are elected to serve the state and its people. Although this one and some of his cronies believe they have the power of an exalted ruler, they are in for a rude awakening.
Your radicalism is only exceeded by your tea party fervor. Governors are servants of the people.
Oh please. Just like Baldacci and King thought it was the best interest to give our tax dollars to their Wind Power Friends , and Environmentalists friends through land buys. So they can have their Eco-Friendly Paradise denying Mainers rights to use these lands they have used for decades for recreation. Excuse me but I guess you haven’t been paying to the last few election cycles Independents, (myself) , Greens, Blue Dog Dems, Tea Partiers etc. are the reason why Liberals are in the minority party in Augusta. You are also forgetting that the folks here in the 2nd District who overwhelmingly support this highway are also the reason why LePage and Republicans are running things. We are tired of having the Libs , Welfare Bums and the Treehuggers telling us what we can and can’t have. Until these folks can present us with something better its time all of these folks take a hike and let a well respected person like Mr. Vigue go on with his proposal.
let’s face it, ALL politicians are in it for the money and their future benefit! I don’t trust any of them. And I certainly don’t trust Vigue and Cianbro!
This is more than a political label. We’re talking about ruining the State of Maine.
Not matter what the subject – you’ll find a way to hook it to Lefties, Commies, Welfare Bums…and now, Tree Huggers. As a rich teapublican this shouldn’t cause you too much concern. Even a $100 toll, or, $250 toll for your truck, should not sway you away from utilizing the Le Page – Vigue Autobahn. The Germans had high hopes for their Autobahn. But they found rails were much less expensive and quicker in the long run. Reading your constant attacks on liberals and welfare bums, confirms that you are financially well secured to wheel your Maserati, or, one of your Ferrari into traffic, and zoom at 93 mph either way to Canada.
This is too bad to occur so early in the process. Hey, we paid for the study, let’s give them a chance.
You are wrong because everyone here who is against this idea has a better solution to fix Maine…right?
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Wow, not a single thing you said was accurate.
Good job!
11000111 00000111 000
gadel do you actually own ” any” land next to or in the proposed route?
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1. privately owned roads have the right to increase weight limits..just like your drive way , if you want to put A MILLION POUND TRUCK there or even a train , this is america you are free to do so…if its publicly funded it has to conform to state -federal rules.
2. this project isnt even on canada’s radar right now, they didnt start it and currently are not even discussing it.
3. A direct connection to canada would cheapen maine goods being shipped cross country, FOR us!
4. Exits are limitied as there arent many places to get off in large numbers, but cianbro did say that they will be added as needed in the future.. so every little town with 300 people will NOT have a exit or onramp.. big deal..
5. IT CONNECTS TO ONE OF OUR DEEP WATER PORTS.. that currently has little to brag about.
6. is that gas truck going by your house “safer ” than a pipeline? go bump it with your pick up and let me know.
00011001 0011001001
you’ve been drinking too much tea! Don’t you think there are family farms in the proposed “secret” route that have been in families for generations. And what is wrong with people not wanting to lose their homes, be it stick built or mobile, for something private?
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I see we have a lot of people spooled up about this issue, it will be built… Get use to it, bottom line folks…
This is all about corporate greed and Peter doesn’t give a dam about the people of Maine… He wants to be amoung the high priest.. and will distroy anything in his path to get there.
What’s your plan to help provide jobs for the citizens of Maine that, I assume, you care so much about?
You say, “there are no new ideas to make up for all this lost work.” Vigue’s version of an EW highway is a new idea. Your response: “We can’t. There’s nothing we can do. There are just two Maine’s, and that’s how it’ll always be.” You will never accomplish anything with such defeatism.
Can the North side of the highway be given to Canada, and can we in “Old North Maine” have dual citizenship then?
Let’s hear your plan for prosperity, please. “Answer the question.”
Too many unanswered questions. Too few “yes” or “no” answers. When Mr. Vigue answers questions with the statement “it is not our intent”, or “we do not believe”, people tend to not trust anything he says. He also stated that he “personally will not gain anything” and that also is not true. He and his company stand to make millions on a project such as this. My father always told me to “believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see”. Mr. Vigue needs to be more forthright and plan ahead with his answers and his presention. Right now I “believe nothing of what I hear”.
When Peter Vigue opens his presentation showing slides of
mega-container ships carrying hundreds of containers full of cheap goods as
“opportunity,” he is talking about a continuation of an economy based on
unsustainable consumerism, foreign manufacturing (and domestic job
loss), and by extension the debt consumers require to fuel their buying
(not having income sufficient to avoid this debt in order to consume).
The middle class in this country owns about 70% of private debt… Over-leveraged, underpaid, prices rising through bubbles and gaming the system (just look at what drove housing prices — the rabid securitization of mortgages that banks could profit obscenely on in private, un-policed markets), the middle class lost big time on this globalization scheme that liberalized capital markets without sufficient checks and balances to keep it the least bit honest.
Business for them, the 1%, does not automatically mean business for the rest of us… wish it were so, but it ain’t…
Mainers, you have read
the comments here, both pro and con this
east-west highway.
The Progressives argue that 1) It
won’t do anything for you. 2) You will
pay for it. 3) Peter Vigue is greedy and 4) Government is to be trusted over private
business.
The Capitalists/Conservatives argue that 1) Maine’s
economy will grow 2) The road will be financed with private money. 3) The
project will create jobs and 4)
Government needs to get out of the way of the project.
You’re probably either unemployed or in fear of losing your
job. You’ve been driving less due to the price of gas so you don’t see your family
and friends as often as you used to. Your aging car needs expensive repairs and
you dread the day when it dies and you can’t afford to get a new one. You may
very well have no health insurance presently or may not in the near future if
your job is eliminated because your boss simply can’t keep you on the payroll
anymore.
Which argument do you choose in hopes that it will solve the
problems you face daily?
Should the Progressive approach win the argument the
road will not be built. You will not be able to apply for the jobs it would
have created and you will therefore still not have the benefits package it
might very well offer. In order to meet your daily financial life needs you may
very well need to join the burgeoning ranks of Mainers already asking the
government for food and housing.
Should the Conservatives win the argument there is a chance
that you may be able to provide for yourselves with a job the highway project
will create. In reality, you are deciding between two socio/economic governmental
structures. Your choice is between your surrender to Governmental assistance or
your defense of the Constitutional freedoms which protect your Free Self-Determination.
Ever since the War of 1812, the Canadians have been dissatisfied with
Maine-Canadian boundary lines. Discontent, and even armed face-offs have
plagued Canadian and American settlers back to the days when Britain tried to
roll up a good portion of an emerging State of Maine into its Canadian purse.
With the Canadians (Brits) trying to hang onto Washington and Hancock Counties and a good
portion of Penobscot County, it’s no wonder that the Treaty of Paris in 1812,
angered them. A new boundary line pushed them back across the St. Croix River. Up
north, Madawaska, which was under Canadian (Brit) rule, shook off the Brit rule
and became part of Maine.
Subsequently, New Brunswickians, Nova Scotians, were left with no choice if they wanted to get to Montreal or Quebec, and vice versa. You had to cross Maine at Coburn Gore. Or,
travel the Trans – Canada Highway up and around the Northern Madawaskan
tip of Maine.
The Le Page – Vigue proposed Autobahn solves a centuries – old problem for Canadians. Or will, if Mainers permit it. Just like its German namesake, The East-West Highway
has limited access and will provide autos and trucks an opportunity for high
speed travel between New Brunswick and Quebec. Top speed on Germany’s Autobahn
is 93 mph. At that speed, few drivers would be looking for a coffee stop, sightseeing,
or, even a toilet. The main goal is to get there to either Quebec or New
Brunswick. A day long trip would be cut to about two and a half hours.
Even at 75 mph the trip would take no more than three hours.
The Canadians – East and West – have a lot to gain. Their centuries-old dream, a link between the Province of Quebec and Province of New Brunswick will be realized. It offers a
much shorter and direct route from and to the Ports of Saint John, N.B.,
and Halifax, N.S. for Canadian goods.
For Mainers, it’s hard to comprehend the advantages of such a large cut through some of the most beautiful sections of Maine would accomplish. Railroads virtually travel the same routes, are much faster, cleaner, and safer. The Canadian billionaire Irving-owned railroads already cut through Brownville Jct. But it has been years since Canadian railways allowed anyone to board there.
From here, it looks like for Mainers, it’s nothing other than a 220-mile long gorge that rips apart Maine’s belly? It is a closed access highway with six exits. Links with Interchanges are proposed at Bangor, Dover-Foxcroft, Jackman, and Eustis. Auto drivers will be charged a $100 toll fee. Truckers $250. We have a railroad connecting Quebec with Atlantic Canada.
Can we afford this? The tolls are enough to run anyone off.
I don’t think I’ve ever read that Vigue has labeled anybody asking legitimate questions as bullies. He appears to be referring to the people who use profanity, bullying tactics, and other sorts of intimidation as bullies, some of whom have entered intimidating posts in this thread for all to see.
I have yet to see that plan to promote economic development for the area from those opposed to the Cianbro corridor plan. So far, just the same ol’ BANANA- (Build Nothing Anywhere Near Anything) This idea is not a plan for vibrant town centers and offends those of us who would love for our children and their children to find a way to make a living in this state.
I do not believe the Stop The Corridor! Defending Water, or Friends of Piscataquis Valley, or any of the other people rallying against the plan really care about this state or our way of life. I read their literature, several times, I attended meetings, listened to podcasts and read the posts on this and other forums. I had hunter orange with me when I went to the meeting, and if a no-road person would have shown something positive for our future, I would have donned the colors. Yet, at the meeting Hugo Chavez got a bigger applause than Peter Vigue from these people. wow
Sierra Club fans: stop complaining. Offer an alternative for economic growth before name calling someone who has.